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Perhaps the most enduring wars are fought by women. On Facebook and in Mother’s groups. At the gate at school drop off and over coffee in the morning. At the watercooler in the office and outside of boardrooms across the city.
It’s the war that pits mother against mother by comparing and belittling choices that we don’t agree with.
Mothers who work for a salary versus mothers who don’t get paid for the very real work of raising their children.
Battlefronts flare up regularly. Over breastfeeding vs bottle. Over vaginal vs c-section births. Over childcare. Over work choices.
According to an article in the Herald Sun today:
Nasty mummy wars erupting in cyberspace are leaving women doubting themselves, racked with guilt and feeling depressed.
Feisty mums are hijacking forums, websites and blogs intended to support mothers and turning them into battlegrounds on divisive issues, particularly the stay-at-home versus working mum debate.
Mia Freedman, editor/publisher of women’s website mamamia.com.au, said posts about motherhood often attracted the most inflammatory comments.
She believed much of the battle stemmed from insecurity about parenting decisions.
“Being responsible for another human life can be very very daunting … and they are secretly terrified of getting it wrong.”
Freedman said those who posted on her site were encouraged to use “dinner party” etiquette and engage in healthy discussion.
Read the full article here.
And last week, another Mummy Wars battle erupted in the US after a Democratic talking head and former lobbyist, Hilary Rosen, said Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s wife was unable to advise her husband on economic issues because she’d “never worked a day in her life”.
Journalist Jessica Irvine writes:
Ann Romney and husband Mitt
Ann Romney opened a Twitter account to complain: ”I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work.”
And so the old catfight was out of the bag again, attracting a stream of online commentary, a prompt intervention by Barack Obama saying the work choices of candidate spouses were irrelevant and an apology from Rosen.
The mummy wars are obviously a simplification. And not just because the concept ignores the bulk of mothers who contort themselves on a daily basis to juggle family and work. It also assumes that women alone are responsible for their decisions and that they do so based on their innate preference for work or child rearing.
In reality, for many mothers, the decision whether to work is purely a financial one. And it is not a decision they make alone – excluding single mothers – but a negotiated outcome between partners in a relationship.
We need to think about families not as a homogenous unit but as a collection of individuals, who can be deployed in various ways to maximise the wellbeing of the family.
…For their generation, the Romneys probably made the best economic decision they could – with Ann looking after the children while Mitt sold his labour as a management consultant, eventually co-founding a private equity investment company, Bain Capital, which remains a source of wealth for the couple.
But for couples making the decision today about who should bear primary responsibility for domestic duties, the landscape has changed dramatically.
…The perception of mummy wars only plays into the stereotype of women as emotion-driven creatures who are out to get one another. This perception perpetuates one of the most dangerous stereotypes for all mothers – that they are forever transformed by childbirth into hormonally unbalanced basket cases.Decisions about work and family life should be respected for what they are – largely financial decisions about what distribution of labour will maximise a family’s income and wellbeing. It’s time to call a halt to the war.
You can read Jessica’s full column here….
It’s an interesting idea – that we should look at the choices women make about work and family as purely economic ones. But is it realistic? In actual fact there are torrents of emotion behind the decisions we make as women regarding our work and our families.
So is it a secret, niggling fear that we’ve made the ‘wrong’ decision that drives some women to attack the choices of other women so readily?
It’s not an issue that’s going away and it’s one that can only benefit from being aired and raked over – albeit in a civilised, intelligent way.
So – we want to try and take a more positive spin on the so-called “Mummy Wars”. How women can support each other ? What can we do to bridge the gap between the mothers?
Comments
217 Comments so far
I have not come across mummy wars in the last 5 years of being a mother of 2. The only place I hear about this so called ‘war’ is in social media. All people from mothers groups, work place and strangers either couldn’t care less or are supportive. The media just spins this crap way out of proportion! The woman I know are not nasty, quite the opposite, I suspect the ones who are judging are a minority!
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I don’t support the idea of Mummy Wars, in fact, what other mothers think of me is of no concern. But, what was really interesting about this article, which I think hits the nail on the head, is that most women work for economic reasons, not because they don’t want to spend more time with their children. Once you remove the emotions from this idea, its becomes about the reality that the cost of living is so high that either both partners in a relationship have to work, or you are forced to choose the higher income earner – which now, is often, the woman in the relationship. My husband and I made the decision for me to return to work full time because I earn over double what he earns. On the plus side, he is having the time of his life looking after our 2 children and discovering what being at home with the kids is all about, and our kids will only be better for this.
Interestingly, my male counteparts are probably earning more than me (probably, I’ll be honest, they are) because there is an acknowledged gender pay gap in the senior ranks – this is a much more interesting issue to debate than Mummy Wars!
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Well said.
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I think the mommy wars in the U.S.A. are a bit more important than we might understand. Women are losing their rights over their bodies, a state has gone back on equal pay for women and planned parenthood is losing their federal funding. The U.S. media is beating up the “she said,she said” mommy wars instead of paying attention to the gradual erosion of women’s rights. Natural childbirth, breastfeeding, working or staying home. Your choice. Whether or not to continue an unwanted pregnancy, or even to conceive is still our right. For our American counterparts, not so much. That is the real story here.
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I actually really liked this article – the idea that we look at women’s parenting choices to stay at home or return to work as an economical choice is something largely over-looked in women’s criticism of one another. I also like that it’s asking for ideas as to how we can bridge the gap and improve the situation. It’s easy to say “Well simple, as long as they’re happy and healthy everyone should respect everyone else, or get off the internet” but that’s quite simply never going to happen.
I’m not a mother yet, but like so many other sources of conflict, I think it would be beneficial to, literally, make some mum’s walk in other mum’s shoes for even just a week so they have a greater understanding of just how hard the others do it. Kind of like a “Worlds Worst Teenagers” for parents
I’d also suggest that perhaps some of the vitriol comes from simple jealousy. Perhaps the working mum would have loved to stay at home with her kids, but it just wasn’t financially feasable. And maybe the stay at home mum would love to be working, but after a few years out of the work-force has trouble getting a job.
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Could we have a post about how awesome women are? I wish there was more in the media about how women *do* support each other. My experience in real life is mainly that of women being open-minded and accepting others’ choices. I breastfed both my kids, I have friends who chose to go straight to the bottle without even trying. Big deal. Most of us are actually intelligent enough to realise that what works for one family won’t work for every family. Mostly it’s really interesting to learn about the choices other people make.
A lot of people are talking about how online people are more vicious, and while this is probably true compared to real life, I would actually argue that even online that overwhelmingly, good nature and sensible opinions are put fourth more often than nasty judgements. Look at the post yesterday about living in apartments, the vast majority of comments were of the nature “as long as your child is loved then it doesn’t really matter”. Nothing there to fuel the so-called Mummy wars, and yet people cite that as an example? The same is true for articles on breastfeeding and birthing stories. Most of the comments are lovely. Most women are actually great.
If you go to a website like the Punch, you see lots of people, men and women, being both nice and nasty to each other. Why don’t we have endless talk about it when men do it? Why isn’t there such a thing as male version, or even the non-gendered version, of the Mummy wars? I agree with Jessica Irvine. The fact that “The Mummy Wars” even gets discussed is sexist and offensive to women. Let’s stop talking about how women can be bitches?
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Oh my God, the irony of this website writing this post is just priceless.
How about mm stop putting posts up every.single.week that are designed to pit one section of society against another for nothing more than the pursuit of the almighty dollar in the form of as many clicks and hits you can get on any one topic. Mummy wars only exist online each and everytime some website owner decides revenue and clicks are down and posts some topic designed to get women to bag each other. Here’s an idea Mia, leave the evangelical devotion to stamping out photoshopping alone for a while and post some positive stuff talking about how women help each other and support each other.
Still can’t get over the absolute irony of this. Too funny
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Hey Jane,
Thanks for the advice. Seriously, Mamamia publishes dozens of articles each week about a wide variety of subjects. I think it does women a huge injustice to dismiss debate and discussion as a ‘war’.
Mamamia readers are enthusiastic participants in these conversations and I think the comments add as much to the discussions as the posts themselves.
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All these debates have gone nuts since the invention of forums on the internet. IRL people dont speak to each other like they do online. You might have your views, but you certainly wouldnt be so rude in how you articulate them face to face.
The anonimity of the internet has been great for sharing information, but it has also unleashed a torrent of bad manners. This is what has fuelled the debate IMO.
You dont have to be rude to me about my choices to justify your choices in life. Sure, have your views, but if you wouldnt say it to my face, why do you think it is ok to say it online to me? Perhaps the issue is also that as women, we are always feeling guilty about what ever choices we make in regards to our families, and justifying our choices makes us feel little bit better?
I am sick of the mummy wars between working and SAHMs. Everyone has different circumstances, what works for me might not work for someone else either financially, or because of the needs of their family.
You can’t tell if someone is naturally delivered or breastfed by looking at them, or even if you did medical tests on them, as long as the MOTHER is happy and supported who cares what choices she made?
These are all such first world problems. As women in Australia in the 21st century we are so lucky we have choices, we should be celebrating them not tearing each other down about them.
(PS. I am still smarting about the abuse I received for a sausage roll recipe on a well know mothers forum- how someone thought that was necessary is still beyond me)
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i don’t see why you would be abused for that? a good recipe for sausage rolls would be awesome!
oh dear!
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I’m dying to know more about the sausage roll wars now….
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Me too! I want the full story
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The only reason that “mummy wars” are being heard about is because of social media websites. I’m sure that 5-10 years ago there was equally as much bitching in old fashioned play groups and mothers groups. Forums are so easily accessible and anyone can join, so of course there is going to e conflict of interest along the way. Everyone just has to remember that “your way isn’t necessarily the right way”. There is no right or wrong.
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I think we forget that everyone’s “ideal’ family unit is different, and the “ideal” behaviours and attributes of their future grown children are different. For example, religous parents have a view that their children will one day hopefully follow the same religion. Other parents have a strong focus on education, while other have strong notion of emotional stability.
Clearly all parents have a mixture, but there are dominating ideals and areas they prefer their child to grow towards and hence the way they then raise their children will all be different.
Add to that a mixture of personal upbringings and various financial and supporting networks… I can’t really see how anyone can say that “your way is wrong”!
By all means, say to your spouse, or even yourself “I do not want to raise my kids that way” but to pretend that we can place our ideals and personal situations on another family, just doesn’t make sense to me…!
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Yawn….. ZZzzzzzzzz……. Next topic anyone?
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Why click on it then Mel? It’s just like any other site if you don’t like the title move on
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He he he had the same reaction Mel. Just let people do what the hell they want. Stay home, work whatever. Ugh.
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Just a crazy thought – perhaps it would help if websites like Mamamia didn’t write about Mummy Wars on a nearly daily basis?
Having articles every week about working Mums, SAHM’s, breast vs bottle, what not to say to Mums, whether Mums are cruel for raising children in apartments etc etc etc etc doesn’t really help encourage mothers to stop judging each other and be more supportive…
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Maybe it’s looking at new titles – titles that show a differing, but positive view rather than the negative “eye catching” ones?
I liked the article on raising kids in apartments yesterday and thought the general tone showed some positive messages on raising children in different homes. But the title “Is it cruel…” set it up as a “mummy war” piece.
Had the title been more in-line with the actual piece, perhaps it would have encourgaed mothers to appreciate differing mothering techniques?
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That’s a really good point. Just checking out the “you might also like” links above – and the titles include:
“Are stay at home mothers wasting their brains”
“That’s right, you don’t work do you?”
It’s definitely not putting the article off to a positive “mothers supporting mothers” start!
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I’m so over these debates. They help nobody.Nobody should judge another person until they have walked in their shoes. Having said that, we are only human and humans judge other humans. I have opinions about others mums that do things in a way I wouldn’t but you know what? I keep those opinions to myself * because I do actually believe my first point. Give it a rest ladies and just do the best you can with what you have.
Xox
* except vaccinations which I am very PRO
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I’m going to preface this by admitting I don’t yet have children. But in my (albeit childless and very grateful given I will hopefully one day have children) view, rather than throwing stones shouldn’t we just be embracing the fact that, unlike our counterparts in the not so distant past, we have the opportunity and ability to make choices based on our own circumstances – choices as to whether or not to breast feed, whether or not we take time off to raise our children or go back to work, whether or not we have a natural birth as opposed to c section
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Everybody has a story that we don’t know, a reason for doing what they do that we don’t know about. We can support each other by treating others with the same level of respect that we feel we deserve to be treated with. I try to do this with everybody I meet, not just mothers. Some days I do better than others. We can put ourselves in their shoes for a while and think about how we might feel if it was us. This is how I can say Hello to my exhusband when he comes to collect our children, despite the fact that he never used to answer. These days he does. This is how I can contact him to let him know that our children have done x, y or z, or I make sure that they tell him. This is how I can smile at a mother with a screaming child at the shops, or hold a friend’s overtired, cranky child and rock her to sleep. At the end of the day, we are all trying to do the best we can with what we have.
Some days this is all too hard, so I bite my tongue and do what my mother taught me …”If you haven’t got something nice to say, don’t say anything.”
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I disagree with the view (or generalisation) that “mummy wars” are a result of insecurity. Rather I think strong opinions stem from the enormous responsibility of parenting decisions and “mummy wars” are quite simply a result of BAD MANNERS.
While there is obviously parenting insecurity in the world, I think when you look at society more broadly the reason mother’s form strong views about their choices is because those choices are huge. They are not made lightly. Breast vs bottle, to circumcise or not, to stay at home or return to work… research tells us that each of those choices WILL have a big impact on the little people we are raising, and that’s a responsibility few take lightly. And rightly so. It is right and good for mothers to have strong view about their own choices.
However, I don’t think the choices I have made apply to everyone, and about the only thing I have a problem with in other peoples parenting is negligence to a child, or anything that impacts my own children (such as whether or not you immunise yours).
What mothers DO with their strong opinions is another matter, and as I said above, its simply a matter of manners.
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My advice would be to ban online forums. Never in real life have I heard someone questioning someone other’s choices (well once, but I’ve not spoken to her again
). In actual conversation, mums I know are supportive, polite and nice to each other.
Put them in front of a computer screen and pow! Even on this forum, which is one of the nicest I’ve seen, I constantly wonder “would you say that to her face?”. Of course you wouldn’t, the anonymity of the internet means you can unleash your inner bitch and let all that anger out.
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Just get off the net…this is a virtual battle…I have never once enountered face-to-face combat with another mum. I know it happens, but the vast majority of the criticism and judgement come from the safety of behind a computer screen.
I’m sick of reading about it to be honest!!
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You really think its only on the net?? Try living in my family with every female (be them with kids or no kids) expressing a critical opinion on what they think is the “right” way to raise your children. My response is that there are 50 ways (probably more) to raise your family and as long as your own family is happy then you’re on the right track and you’re doing a BRILLIANT job!
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Really? Wow – bestest of luck dealing with that – it would do my head in. I’m pretty certain my mother and two sisters have not once in 14 years volunteered an opinion on how I’m raising my three kids, only giving me their take/advice on a situation when I’ve asked for it. No doubt they’ve disagreed with some (many?) of my decisions/choices but they wouldn’t dare speak up – we’ve just never operated that way.
My MIL on the other hand tried it on for the first few years of my daughter’s life but I’d either politely ignore her (incredibly hard at times) or make myself scarce for a while, as in I’d become too busy to see her which meant she couldn’t see her beloved grand-daughter either. When we resumed normal contact she’d be much better behaved for a while and then the unsolicited advice and unconstructive criticism would start up again so I’d withdraw again. And round and round we went. The whole game stopped when I finally erupted at her (at her birthday lunch no less, in front of her four kids and their spouses, including my hubby) and out spewed 3 years of pent-up anger. I told her we were doing a great job living our lives and raising our daughter but, more importantly, we were doing the very best we could and that was enough. It got ugly (I called her a bully and said she’d been bullying all her kids for years – three of them thanked me later) but boy it felt wonderful. The upshot is we heard nothing for three days and then she rang and said I was absolutely right, that we were doing a brilliant job and that it wasn’t her place to comment or criticize and she never would again. And she never ever has. We’ve gotten on famously ever since – I’m so much closer to her than my own mum and she’s the best grandmother to our kids.
Gawd, sorry for the rave…not intended. I hope your family learn to zip their lips and just be supportive and encouraging but at least it sounds like you’ve got a great attitude about it.
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one of my friends posted this on FB, ” To my mil, I really dont your advice on how to raise my children, I live with one of YOURS, and cleary he still needs some work” It went something like that, too funny .
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All of the judgment and criticism I have received as been face to face. Mainly at work.
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What about from mother-in-laws?
I do agree though, that mostly it’s an Internet issue, people are fortunately less likely to be bitchy to your face.
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The thing to remember is, every woman (or family – good point in Jessica’s column about these things often being negotiated decisions) makes their choices based on what is best given their own circumstances – which are unique to each mum, child and family. We should start from the assumption that the parents love the child/ren, and therefore have put a lot of time, thought, intelligence, wisdom and soul-searching into their choices. This is why it can be so insulting to reject those choices out of hand, even when they conflict with your own, equally carefully considered decisions.
I’m in the middle of trying to encourage Miss Nearly-3 to develop her sense of empathy – other kids are their own people, with their own claim on their own property, bodies, choices and autonomy. This is why they may not want to let you have their precious teddy, or drag them into your game. You can ask, get curious, but don’t insist, or be surprised when you meet a difference of opinion or intention.
This has led to some of those moments that are so confronting in my parenting – “Hang on, I need to hear / take on board what I’m saying here too!!”
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In general, I just can’t stand people. Period. I have children in two different age groups – 20′s and primary age.
The one thing I’ve learned is not to tell anyone anything. They twist it and turn it and feel superior with it. It’s just the way. I used to be so open and say things like, my children are driving me mad, or my teenager snuck into the vodka, but I soon learned that there is very little solidarity and if they can look down their noses they will (even though you’ve probably heard much worse about their child.) Mind your own business – as in ‘keep your business to yourself!’ Don’t share too much. Smile and agree and then stick your fingers up at them under the table. And don’t be frightened to fake it if you have too!! Tell them your husband is ‘great’ even when you want to dismember him. Tell them the kids are ‘fine’ even when you’ve discovered their porn collection. Tell them you were ‘happy’ with their school reports even though you’re pretty sure they’ll end up in a sheltered workshop or jail.
Do your best, do what suits you, love your children, go easy on yourselves and always remember that no-one and no family is perfect – no matter how much they make out that they are!
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Hi Anon,
Very true. Expecially if you are like me and dont try and make out that all is a bed of roses, and that you love everything that your child does, says and the way they act.
I am probably too honest about how I sometimes feel about my children (the negative, ‘had a S%!t of a day’ feelings) and feel that I should just lie and pretend that all is fine.
But why should you? Mothering comes in all shapes and sizes, ways and methods and ups and downs. Cant we just accept that and move on?
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Hi anon,
I love what you wrote, I think you might be my soulmate.lol
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I can understand your point anon but can’t help but feel a bit sad really as your responses perpetuate the myth of a perfect family life. As a new mum who can feel very insecure at times with how I’m doing, I really appreciate parents keeping it real.
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I don’t have a facebook page and don’t read many “mummy” blogs because I don’t want to engage in this topic. I started to read mamamia because I liked the photo galleries and gossip but over the years I think mamamia has changed to include these articles almost daily. They get a big response, so mamamia thinks “let’s write more”.
I guess the answer is not to be sucked into these “debates” – if we stop commenting then maybe the media wont keep writing them.
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Hi Anon. We aim to cover what everyone is talking about so that people can have a place to come and voice their opinions. Sure, this particular post might be about mummy wars – but just in the last couple of days we’ve done posts about the elderly, office pilfering, Tony Abbott, job interviews, Zac Efron… the list goes on!
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I know, I know, lots of other topics are covered but these mum debates get the most reply.
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What can we do to end the mummy wars?
I dunno….
Shorter nails and tighter sarcasm laws?
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Concrete-drinking workshops?
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lol!
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I have a very diverse bunch of friends and acquaintances all varying decisions on how they raise their kids. Some have to return to work due to financial reasons, others want to stay home despite experiencing financial difficulty, others love their jobs and want to return, others have wanted to be a mum their entire life and wouldn’t dream of doing anything else. All have gorgeous smart funny kids, all are doing a friggen exceptional job in raising little humans.
Myself I have no children so can’t add much to this debate but after babysitting a few times the stress of trying to keep a kid alive for a few hours is colossal, so massive only a nice chilled sparkling can untense my muscles once mum comes to pick them up.
So if you’re a mum or Dad and your kids are happy, kudos to you, keep it up because its working, whatever choice it may be.
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perhaps media outlets could stop fuelling these supposed ‘wars’? what was once a minor niggle between different types of parents is being blown up out of all proportion by continuing publicity from media outlets, including this one, mistakenly thinking it’s ‘news’
….it’s nothing more thant the fact that the media loves a good ‘scragfight’ between women
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There is a great TED talk on the God complex – where once we’ve made up our mind or lived through an experience, we often settle into a thought pattern of “my experience is valid, and the it is the only valid option”.
You get it for the mummy wars, any kind of weight loss discussion (think: “I never got fat therefore fat people are…” “I am fat and can’t lose weight” “I was fat and lost weight using technique A”), and you get politicians and doctors with it too.
The crux of the talk (which ends up disappointing me because he gets all ‘why can’t we all hold hands and sing” towards the end) is that in most scenarios, there is no such thing as ‘the right answer’. There are usually dozens. Parenting isn’t maths, but we often fall for the trap of thinking it is.
Some parents love controlled crying, because it worked. Some tried it and found it didn’t work. So are against it on principle. (Side note: Worked for my first, didn’t for my second, wasn’t required for the twins).
Ditto, the dummy. Ditto, food preferences.
In my experience (oh, hear we go) I think IRL mummy wars are pretty minimal. We tend to discuss parenting with our partners and friends and come to a general middle ground. It’s online that stokes the fire.
The more you know about someone’s experiences, the more you empathise and the less you judge. Yourself, you judge very lightly. Your partner, a smidgin harder. Best friends about the same. Other parents at your kids’ school – more judging.
Online, you know NOTHING about that person – judgement is ON FOR ALL COMERS, YOUNG AND OLD! Plus the article is written to outrage you. And you’re not face to face with that person. And slightly anon.
Meh. All a bit of fun, really.
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Agree with you, ID. People attacking each other or an author for having a different opinion, on any topic, surprises me. I have seen it, and I know it happens, but it never fails to surprise.
It’s like when we posted an article about quitting sugar (one person’s experience) and were attacked.
Why would you go to a site you’ve never been to, to a post written by a person you’ve never heard of, and attack them? It makes me wonder why these people are so defensive about their lifestyles.
People have different opinions. People have different techniques. And when it comes to kids, even more than that, what works for one kid won’t work for another. Sure, there are things we can all agree aren’t good parenting (abuse, neglect, etc) but for the most part, surely it varies so much there’s no validity in arguing?
Guess I’ll find out when I have kids.
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It’s a tough debate because we’re talking about the future of society, so those of us who care about society tend to care about children, both our own and others’ children. For example I read recently that one of the reasons for women having a higher rate of autoimmune disease could be because of the discouragement of girls from playing outdoors and in mud.
If you then meet someone who discourages their little girl from playing outdoors because it’s not ladylike, then it is difficult not to say something because you care about the future of that child and of having a healthy society. Same for those who choose not to immunise, or who feed their children McDonald’s fries. It’s very difficult for anyone who cares (and has a different opinion) to sit and watch these things happening because you have an urge to help. But from the parent’s perspective they’re just trying to scrape by and do what they think is best for their child (getting good habits by playing indoors rather than not caring about mess, any concerns they have about the impact of immunisation, trying to feed a hungry toddler when on the move and low on time, etc.)
What’s the solution? Well I tend to think that if you have concerns about a parenting trend, then it’s best to ensure that those concerns are aired in a factual, scientific way, and allow parents to make the choice. If you feel strongly against something a parent is doing, I think you can phrase it that way rather than phrasing it as a criticism. For example: “It’s absolutely your choice as to how your daughter plays, but I did read a study which showed it’s good for their immune systems to be exposed to more outdoor play”. If they want more information, give them more information. If they don’t then hopefully they just take your point on board as a difference of opinion, and you’ve done your part.
Not being a mother myself, I’m not sure if the above would be responded to well (I’m guessing it would be based on how you said it i.e. not snarky!) so it could be that someone could get very defensive. But I do think overall that what people perceive as ‘criticism’ is more often confusion or concern, and when someone outside your family expresses concern about our children, it seems it would be very easy to get defensive.
I guess what I’m saying is that I think it’s beneficial that those concerned express their viewpoints as opinions rather than instructions, and that those on the receiving end keep a light heart and realise that everyone is different and that to someone else, your choices may seem strange or unusual. Sometimes that may mean having to explain why you made that choice, other times it may just be about saying “I’m aware of that, but I chose not to take that path” and leave it there.
Even more important is that once these opinions are expressed, that’s it. There’s no need to keep reminding someone that you disagree with them. They’ve heard you out and hopefully responded reasonably, so the exchange has been made. It’s unnecessary to keep pushing a point, because it’s fair to say that most parents have given their choices a decent amount of thought. And if they haven’t (and are interested in learning more) then they will seek you out and ask you questions.
Express yourself politely once, then be there for them if they want more information but leave the issue alone until (if) they approach you again about it.
My 2c! (Sorry about the length!)
@AnnaJMcDougall
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I know you were trying to phrase that suggestion about playing in the mud as sensitively as possible but my perception as a Mum who like most Mums gets everyone’s opinions is that would actually be the most offensive way possible to phrase it. It comes across to me as very superior and like your suggestion is the right way. I would take your comments as something like ‘it’s up to you if you want to do the wrong thing with your daughter but I was reading a study about what you should be doing. IMO a much better way would be to just say I read this interesting study and tell your friend about the findings. Rather than saying what comes across as I read this study about what you should be doing but it’s up to you if you want to of not. I think the reference to its up to you how you raise your daughteris what would make it offensive to me. I know you were trying to come up with a nice way to say if so wanted to offer my interpretation of your comment.
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I agree or “I read a study about… But it’s hard to know isn’t it with so much conflicting information out there”.
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Oh no! I typed up a whole response but it must have mis-fired! Basically the response was a long version of “Yes that’s what I was trying to do and thank you for clarifying, I really appreciate it” Hehe the wonders of technology!
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Are you offering your advice to friends? or strangers?
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How about the mummy vs non mummy war?
Like, for various reasons I’m putting off having kids (my health, my lifestyle, my work) etc. I’m sick of being made to feel like I must be un-natural for choosing this.
Some people are pretty outright in their criticism. Others go the passive aggressive route. (like that whole “oh, being a mummy is the best thing in the whole world”… for you maybe. For me, not at the moment.)
Yeah, ok, maybe I’m a bit sensitive about it. Maybe I’m not entirely happy with the decisions – my head is all for it while my heart is not. I know I’m doing the right thing, but I still feel a bit left out.
So why do people have to go out of their way to MAKE ME FEEL LEFT OUT (and don’t say they don’t, they do. Often on purpose)?? As if I wasn’t under enough pressure from my own body and hormones.
It’s a purely emotional backlash reaction, but really sometimes I wish the Mummy Club would just shut up. Or stick with pulling each other down and quit with the rest of us.
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My sister went through the same thing when she announced she (and her husband) were choosing not to have children. Everyone tried to convince her how wonderful it was and she got very upset – “why won’t they all just leave me alone?”
I think it was something to do with the way she announced it (to a roomful of parents): “we’ve decided not to waste our lives by having kids”. (She also now wonders why no one seems to want to talk to her about much of anything anymore)
Good luck to you Renae, I hope it all works out whichever way you want it too and that you get the support you deserve.
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I agree Renae, We won’t be having children for various reasons and although these reasons are extremely valid (medically) people still make comments that are down right rude and make you feel that by not having children in your life your will not be complete.
in terms of this article I’ve seen alot of mummy wars on forums over the issues discussed breastfeeding v bottle feeding, dummies or not etc etc the list goes on. Women seem to be there own worst enemy, everyone has a right to choose how they parent as long as they are not hurting the child but unfortunately some people like to think there way is the ONLY way!
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I think its great when people choose not to have children. I know a few people who had children because they felt pressured into it by society or their partner etc…and its not ideal for any of them. Least of all the poor little child.
Good for you.
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Yes, I know a few situations like this and it is Not Good
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The best thing you can do is follow your heart. It took a long time before I was able to have kids (even though I really really wanted them) and I know how ‘left out’ you can feel, it’s a hard one.
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Personally I think the best thing we can do is to make sure our friends are diverse enough so that we are not all focusing on the same things. I know the times I’ve been the most judgemental are when most of the people I spent time with had very small children for instance. Everything becomes so micro. Or when everyone is right into their careers. Same thing, different topic of micro.
I focus much less on other people’s lives when my own is varied and broad and open. So, friends in their 20s who are single or in new relationships, friends in their 50s whose children are grown up, friends with new babies and friends with kids a simliar age to mine.
The further along in the mummy thing I get, the more I realise that I’m shit at some parts of it, pretty good at others and we muddle along for the rest. Pretty sure most people are the same so there’s far less angst.
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TOTALLY agree with all your comments, Frankie.
I remind myself everyday that MY choices are right for ME and not to judge people who choose differently..I have always found that having a variety of friends enriches my life and reminds me that we all have our own path to follow.
I think if we all trusted ourselves more and the decisions we make in our life (regarding children, work etc) then we would be far less likely to judge others because of our own insecurities.
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I sometimes wonder if these “mummy wars” are fulled by the media because it is a very emotional subject and is always bound to get some response from the general public, like dangerous p-platers or dole bludgers.
Personally, I dont even know why this stuff makes the news, there are far more important issues happening in the world.
In my real life I have never experienced judgement from people who care about me, only support. Those who do judge me for my decisions about my children, I tend to ignore. They dont know me or my situation.
Every family is making the best decision for them, they are the experts of their lives.
Rather then focusing on the apparent divide between SAHM and working mums, lets focus on bringing up happy, supported and loved children, however that may be.
ps. I love reading mammamia, but was disappointed to see that they engaged in this topic, its been done to death
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I think a large part of the problem is that people are way, way to sensitive to criticism. What’s that saying? “Your opinion is none of my business” or something like that.
If we all do what we think is best and try to have a few like-minded people around us for support then does it really matter if some random person on the internet or at playgroup or wherever doesn’t agree with us?
It aggravates me, the idea that the answer is for all of us to be super-nice to everyone no matter what. We’re never all going to agree on everything.
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Have you ever noticed how it is always the ones with the worst behaved children who want to let you know what you’re doing wrong ?
Hmmmmmmm……. ! (Rub’s chin )
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This situation is best shown in TV shows like ‘Wife Swap’ – it makes me laugh!
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I get inordinately excited when I am able to watch that at someone’s place with Foxtel. Hilarious! And I don’t really mind if it’s the pom or yank version. Although the yanks do have a special kind of zealotry that only they seem to be able to sustain…
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What can we do?
We can all stop trying to be better than each other, and start being more considerate of others. As women, we are our own worst enemies. We are constantly in battle with each other, out to prove we’re doing better than everyone else.
If we all stop. And look after each other, stop judging other women, I’m sure we could get more important things done.
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The only time I ever hear of these so called “mummy wars” ïs when I read articles of this kind posted on Mumma Mia! Maybe the “wars” will end when Mama Mia ceases to provoke arguments.
Amongst my friends and relatives there is an even proportion of breast-fed/bottle-fed babies; stay at home & working mums and other differing opinions and lifestyles. Everyone is accepting of each mothers’ (and fathers’!) decisions because each family situation is differerent. You cannot compare.
So maybe if tabloids, online forums and magazines stopped pitting mothers against one another, these ridiculous “mummy wars” will end.
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The mummy wars are real alright, Guest, just join any Facebook group or page regarding some sort of parenting issue, or check the comments on a parenting/childbirth/children’s health blog.
That’s lovely that your friends are supportive. On the internet people definitely do get nasty though … I don’t think it’s just Mamamia provoking it.
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I have seen some pretty fiesty wars about breastfeeding in my facebook news feed, and I’m not a mother or part of any mothers group. It’s not an MM exclusive.
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Me too Miss T, a particular Facebook page about ‘breastfeeding not being obscene’ was at the front of my mind when writing that.
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Spot on. What if they called a mummy war and no one came? It’s a beat-up to get people riled and drive online forums.
My friends and I all made parenting choices as best we could. From bottle to breast, to paid work or stay at home, we were all different, and no one gave a toss. No recriminations, no mummy war — just live and let live. But I guess there’s not much of a story in that.
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To both the Guests – of course there isn’t a lot of bitchiness and judgmentalism among friends. But on the internet it’s everywhere, you don’t have to go looking for it. It isn’t necessarily the blogs or media sites provoking it. There ARE women with very strong opinions about how everyone else in the world should live their lives. They state their opinions in capital letters and with a tone of utter arrogance. Mamamia is not creating the problem, it is much bigger than a single website. And it is real, not a construct of the media, unfortunately
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Agreed. I never head the term “mummy wars” until about 6 months ago right here on mamamia!
I’m not complaining though, now that I’m aware I realise that it is *everywhere* on the net so I guess it is topical.
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I think the best thing we can do is firstly feel confident and secure in our OWN choice… then we don’t feel the need to undercut others. If you really feel convicted that your choice is the best way (dont we all?!) then living it out joyfully is much more likely to ‘convert’ someone rather than cutting down their decisions. But really at the end of the day – have faith in the love other mothers have for their children and respect their right to make different decisions. As long as we are ALSO free to choose, I dont see the point in getting worked up about what other people do. Lets all respect each other for this dauntingly glorious task of mothering in whatever form it takes, huh!
http://livinglovinglaughingtogether.blogspot.com.au/
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I don’t engage in mummy wars (and man, I’ve had some shots fired across my bow) because for some reason I just DON’T CARE what anyone says about how I raise my kids. Unless its my sisters or my besties. Articles in the paper or online and books are interesting but I don’t take them as judgement or criticism. They are all just another writer’s opinion. PEACE x
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Ohhhh, I like you! I’m the same
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We could all just shut up and mind our own businesses. There’s a good solution.
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Rebecca….I’m hearing you !
Well said.
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What can we do?
Accept- There are many valid ways to raise a child
Support-Lend a hand and offer encouragement
Empathise-Recognise and understand most parents are doing the best they can!
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I’ve done all the options SAHM, WAHM, full time work, part time work every option was bloody hard in its own way. I wish I had just relaxed more and realised life is a series of chapters and this was just one stage of my experience and with time changes would come. My resentment of others in different circumstance was fuelled by my own frustrations. Now I am too tired to bother resenting anyone their situation and just wish that rather than looking at “mummy wars” we could just focus on making viable solutions that benefit everyone, those with children (both mums and dads) and even those without children who could benefit from more flexible work arrangements as well. At the end of the day we all went the same thing, happy fulfilled lives.
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I like it!
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What a great post!
I avoid as much as possible talking about what my son is or isn’t doing, what choices I am making as a mother to avoid the “mummy wars”. Often comments are not supportive or helpful and are loaded with strong conviction that no conversation will ever change. My “non-contact” is my way of fighting the mummy wars.
I am very lucky to have an amazing mothers group, something I have learnt is sadly an exception rather than rule. This is the only place I speak freeely in detail about any problems or concerns I have, and it is the only place I get support and advice free of criticsm or judgement.
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I agree Belinda (fantastic name! same as my best friend!).
My non-contact is now my way of fighting the mummy wars. There are enough people with unshakably strong opinions (often poorly informed) on the internet without me joining them. The comments on a blog or a Facebook group is not the place that change is going to happen in the world. And combative attitudes towards other peoples’ opinions only makes those opinions more entrenched, it never changes them.
Not only do the opinions fail to change, but the world is a slightly sadder and angrier place. So I’m with you!
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I think the most helpful thing is to agree with something you don’t necessarily agree with.
Basically, very few people are actually parenting WRONG, but we are all doing it DIFFERENTLY
So, if you are a stay at home mum, and soemone says to you “I’m going back to work next week, putting my 6 month old in Childcare”, rather than nodding and thinking “that is child abuse”, you could actively, out loud, say something supportive, like
“Oh good on you. What will you be doing at work? Where will your child go into care”
(And not loaded questions, like “won’t you miss him? Won’t she miss you?”)
I try to practice this a lot – it’s no skin off your nose to agree with other people’s decisions, and support them. Seriously. It makes the world a better place.
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I don’t think I could do that. I try not to criticize other parents and their choices, I’m sure they are doing what they think is right for their circumstances BUT I wouldn’t go as far as saying ‘good on you’ to someone if I really thought they were doing the wrong thing. Unless it was something serious I would keep my mouth shut, not say the opposite of what I was really thinking.
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Anonymous, your comment is the type of behaviour the article is talking about! Bad parenting is endangering your child’s life not returning to work!
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Open that mind a bit further, I didn’t make any reference to whether or not anyone works or not. I was referring to the idea, the principle, of what Kateateight was saying.
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For the record, I think it is fine to work, or not work, whatever works for you and your family.
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I understand what you’re saying, but I think there is a lot to be learned from the practice of agreeing with people you disagree with.
Especially about something like parenting, where it is very unlikely that there is a ‘wrong’, it is just ‘different’
I think it is a good way to open your mind – to encourage and support people who do things differently to you. I think it can make you a better person.
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Love this post! Really wish I had someone in my life like you when I was returning to work. x x
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Don’t become a Mummy in the first place ????
Mummies and Daddies will always know best and will not hesitate to educate other Mummies and Daddies what it is that they are doing wrong when it comes to raising their children.
Human nature ??? Perhaps.
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