Do You Like This Story?

by MIA FREEDMAN


UPDATE 8/8/12: The abandoned baby (original news story below) has now been removed from its parents.

This from news.com.au:

NSW Community Services Minister Pru Goward revealed the decision today.

“We have today removed a little baby that was abandoned,” Ms Goward told reporters in Sydney.

“We’ve been continually assessing that family’s capacity to care for their child for 24 hours.

“We are now satisfied that the child should be removed temporarily at least.

7/9/12: We recently ran a post by Kerri Sackville about Mummy Wars, which went gangbusters. It was read, shared and debated passionately and prolifically. In her post, Kerri argued that the media was responsible for pitting women against each other and inflaming issues around parenting and that we should all just get along.

As I wrote in response, I respectfully disagree with part of this. I don’t believe ‘Mummy Wars’ is a media concoction (although the name is and I’ll save my rant about that for another day). I believe that women have always discussed parenting issues because they are incredibly important to us.

Well, most of us.

This morning, many of us woke to hear news coverage of a couple who had left their 6 week old baby alone on a freezing street at 3am.

News.com.au reports:

92024206 380x253 THIS is what a bad parent looks like.

POLICE are questioning a man and woman after they allegedly abandoned their six-week-old baby boy on a western Sydney street for more than an hour last night.

Paramedics were called to Joseph St, Lidcombe, following reports of an infant, who was allegedly on the road about 3.15am.

The young boy was conveyed to Westmead Children’s Hospital where he was treated for exposure to the 7C temperatures outside.

Officers later interrupted a man and woman – identified as the baby’s parents – fighting nearby at Lidcombe Railway Station a short time later, police said

Witnesses said the couple didn’t appear too concerned over the welfare of the child and didn’t ask police where the baby was or if it was alright when being spoken to.

The pair were arrested and taken to Auburn Police Station where they are in police custody and assisting investigating officers with their inquiries. A NSW Police spokeswoman said the Department of Community Services would be notified of the incident.

I was incensed when I heard this report. And for all those who believe we should always hold hands with any person who calls themselves a parent and suspend judgement ‘because we don’t know all the facts’, well you may want to click away at this point.

We know enough facts to make this call: bad parents exist. And I cannot think of any plausible excuse for the actions of this couple.

‘So why are you writing about this, Mia?’ some commenters will say. ‘This is bullying’, some will say. ‘How does this help those parents?, some will say.

Well, I don’t really care about these parents. I care about the welfare of that baby (and others like him that we don’t hear about on the news) and I hope to God he is placed with a family who can meet his basic needs. Such as being tucked up safely at home in the middle of winter at 3am. A family who can shower him with love and care. A family capable of BEING parents. Good parents.

Parenting is a privilege – not an automatic right. Being able to reproduce does not automatically make you a good parent. Just ask child services about that.

I know so many people who desperately want to be parents. Gay people, people struggling with infertility, people without partners, people who can’t afford IVF, people who are separated from their children due to relationship breakdowns… it’s heart-breaking.

On occasions like today, we are reminded that biology has little bearing on your ability to be a good parent. The distress of that freezing cold newborn abandoned on a street is unimaginable.

So here’s my point. Let’s keep discussing parenthood and motherhood because they’re important topics, worthy of debate and discussion. But let’s be mindful when we throw around terms like ‘bad parent’ or, more often ‘bad mother’.

There are bad mothers and there are bad fathers too. And as a society we must acknowledge this and address it. It is not helpful or logical and it’s certainly not safe to throw out a censorious “don’t judge” when people do things that are harmful or potentially harmful to their children.

These two people – who took their six week old baby boy out in the freezing cold in the middle of the night and abandoned him in the middle of the street while they went to do God knows what at a train station – are in an entirely different league to people who choose to use formula, or a child leash, do controlled crying, opt for a caesarean and all the other parenting issues that can absurdly attract accusations of ‘bad mother’.

By all means let’s keep discussing and debating all the aspects of motherhood that divide, frustrate, outrage,delight, confuse, astonish, anguish and irritate us. By all means lets be passionate about the choices we make and our belief in them. But let’s remember what a truly bad parent looks like and never confuse that with parents who are just doing things differently to us*

*2 crucial exceptions to this rule are when parents’ choices endanger the life of their child or other people’s children such as THIS and THIS.

Check out 10 more parenting fails that will really shock you here. Also on iVillage today:

Why does the internet hate this 6-year-old boy?

Did Stephanie Rice use a stripper pole to get in shape for the Olympics?

The weirdest and wackiest pregnancy trends for 2012

Comments

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286 Comments so far

  1. teaganjai

    no, no, NO!!! if i grow up and have kids their is no way in the WORLD!!! i will commit child abuse even if it my own child!!

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  2. Anonymous

    I’m so tired over parents rights somehow trumping the rights of the child. This happens constantly, where DOCS returns a child to the family, only for the abuse to continue! We should protect the real vulnerable in our society and put these children ith families who will love and nurture them.

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  3. JosieY

    Here ismy prayer.

    That those parents get the help and support they need to be the parents their child needs.
    That they get their baby back when they are in a position to be the parents their child needs.
    That the parents are not put off by all the judgements that will be coming thier way when they seek help.
    That no baby is cold and alone tonight.

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  4. Anonymous

    Mia, you had me with you until, you decide to call non vaxxers and freebirthers bad parents… Um, you say control crying is ok, knowing the research???…. you have been shown research on other post about your BAD decisions, but yet, I am not sitting here calling you a bad parent.

    Heck, you wrote a whole book about it and are encouraging other parents to do the same…!!!! BUT, does that make you a bad parent? NO…. Instead, I would suggest your making a decision based on your own biased research and whilst you believe you are doing the right thing, I certainly dont agree… But to call you a bad parent? NO, because that is nasty, as I would imagine your only doing what you feel is best.

    You sure are one person who not only contradicts yourself on a regular basis, but become more and more transparent as time goes by.

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  5. Anonymous

    Are you freaking serious? I read this story with disbelief that any parent could have such disregard for their childs safety only to find out at the end of the post that you consider myself to be in the same category as the parents of this baby.I have chosen not to vaccinate my children due to very real fears that vacinating them would prove to be more dangerous to them than make a very informed decision not to .My first child who I immunized had what is called a “rare”( Most immunization tragedies are actually not recorded as such ,doctors usually try and find other reasons for adverse reactions which is why very few reactions actually make it into the satistics , dont argue with me on that , my sons injuries took months and several DRs to actually make his injury into the stats) reaction to immunization and was granted a medical exemption.I made the decision not to immunize my following children as NO ONE could give me a guarantee that they would not suffer the same fate as their brother .My children are my priority, I have always put their best interest first, breastfeeding when sometimes a bottle would of suited me better, staying at home with them when sometimes would of loved to be walking out the door to work , saturday morning sport ,when i would love a sleepin.I love being my childrens mother, our home is loving and we provide our children with every opportunity we can.But because I do not immunize them I am negligent parent ?IN THE SAME CATAGORY AS PRENTS WHO WIILINGLY NEGLECT THEIR CHILDREN?? It is not mandatory in Austrailia to be immunized, No we dont receive any family tax benefit because of their immunization status,and we pay full fees for preschool and are excluded if there is an out break of anything (which i think i would do regardless )So ,untill it is MANDATORY in Austrailia, please stop spewing this hate towards families that are loving and caring but have very real fears regarding immunizing their children.I never push my experience on anyone ,I am not a fan of the “anti vaxxers” and dont feel the need to recruit for the cause, i am not a crazy hippie with alternative views .Nothing to be afraid of here .

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    • mrsmac

      If hurts doesn’t it? To think that some people regard you as every bit as bad as these parents because you made a decision on immunisation that differs to their own. Truly awful. Your child had a reaction but that doesn’t matter. You’re an anti vaxxer and a bad parent.

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      • J.K

        Judgmental people do my head in. Support each other instead.

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    • Joey

      From someone who was not vaccinated as a child, and has has to deal with the consequences throughout my adult life, I think it’s absolutely silly to not vaccinate and then try to keep the child from getting sick when there is a breakout. Unless the child is actually immunocompromised in some way, of course. If you don’t develop immunity as a child to these diseases, then you are always at risk of getting them, some of them can have dire consequences, ie. mumps to reproductive health in males and the congenital side effects of measles, rubella and chickenpox to unborn babies. This is not meant to reflect on your decision not to vaccinate your own children anonymous, I just don’t understand the mentality behind isolating unvaccinated children is all.

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      • Amanda (annon from above)

        I really wish I could just leave this alone and simply boycott MM, and forget the ridculous stance this site has taken on parents who choose not to vaccinate their children.The insidious statement comparing non vaxx parents with parents who neglect and abuse their children is absolutly disgusting ,and I for one am afraid I simply can not leave it alone.I have no desire to evoke debate over the issue , i have no desire to change any ones mind or even for anyone to agree with me.What I do have is a strong desire to stop such vile statements about parents who have exercise their right as parents not to immunize their children .Freedom of speech is one thing but to spread such hurtful statements on a public forum is another ,it is abuse and should not be tolerated.I have noticed that statements that incite ridicule amoung certain groups or individuals are removed from this public forum.I am proposing that while MM is entiltled to have strong opions , a site in the public forum should not promote such hate towards a group who is exercising their right to do what they feel is right for their children by stating that they are negligent parents .This far from the case.When my first child was born , I didnt question wether to have him vaccinated or not ,I just did it .He will no longer be the boy he was intented to be because I didnt ask the right questions .I will be emailing MM with correspondence between Westmead childrens hospital and my self regarding my choice not to immunise my following children after the injuries caused to my son by having him vaccinated .It is clearly written by a Dr at the hospital that perhaps i have made the right choice , I am not being negligent and i am not a “bad ” mother for my choice .It is a much more informed choice than when i immunised my first child .Hopefully the administrators of this site will read the lengthy correspondence and i have no expectation that I will change anyones mind , really dont want to , but that they will see there own prejudice on this issue is out of control and retract the comprarison between families such as mine and abusive ,neglectful parents.

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        • Luly

          Can you advise from your research if it possible to vaccinate later in life? Would that be safer once the child has grown.

          I’m on the fence with vaccinations. I don’t have any children yet. But am interested in both sides of the story to make up my mind. Is it possible to still vaccinate but delay until developmt is much further along?

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  6. Anonymous

    This story has affected me like no other (hence this being my first MM comment). It kept me awake last night…my mind keeps thinking about this poor baby. I feel so sad for him and for his parents. This is such a terrible situation and it has upset me greatly. It has only really been since having my own children that I feel so much for the plight of other children, knowing how helpless they are and how much they rely on their parents to fill every one of their needs. I am one of the lucky ones: I have had a good life and am blessed with a loving husband, a good support network and financial security. Even with all these things in my favour I still find parenting bloody hard work! How must it be for parents with no support, positive role models or security, and then add in a substance addiction to the mix. What hope is there for kids born into this situation? What can I do to help?

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  7. zepgirl

    Bloody hell, have people seen this?

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8512821/twin-toddlers-found-alone-wandering-street

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  8. Aero

    Such a very sad story… but as many have already mentioned in the comments, no one except the parents and the investigating officers know the real story.

    But can I also say that I really don’t think DOCs is always the ideal solution that many commenters have suggested. Having worked in DOCS in both youth justice and child protection, it is certainly not providing the care and protection that it is intended to (in Qld anyway). Foster carers often have ridiculous numbers of children placed with them, there are regularly incidents of foster carers abusing children in their care, training is poor, caseworkers are over-worked, under paid and unsupported so the system regularly fails the young people it is meant to protect.

    It is usually the goal to reunify parents with their children and in an ideal world, this is done with lots of support and assistance (which also isn’t always the case). Having worked with lots of teenagers who have been in care, MOST of the time, they just want to live back at home with their families and more often than not, they self-place back with their families despite court-ordered child protection orders.

    So in my view, isn’t it best to skill parents up when the children are younger and invest in early intevention programs rather than thinking that removing children from their families is the best way?

    Of course there are exceptions and those young people who have been signficantly abused or neglected should always be protected, but our system definitely needs an overhaul so the system works how it is intended to.

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  9. lauren91

    Stories like this sadden me. I’m with Mia, I don’t care about the parents. I am concerned that an innocent six week old baby was left outside in the middle of winter at 3am.

    I hope that this child has a chance at a good life. I hope that these people can step up and be the parents the child deserves. But I wouldn’t hold my breath :(

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  10. mrsmac

    The picture above of the doll face down in the dirt reminds me of my daughters babyborn doll that she had years ago. She would leave it wherever she had finished playing with it, often face down on the carpet or in a bucket in the sandpit. It was so lifelike I could never leave it like that. I can’t tell you how many times I picked her up and wrapped her in a blanket and sat her up in her pram.

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  11. Jane DJ

    32 years ago a little 6 week old baby was found crying /*under a tree in the remote goldfields town we lived in. As the wife of the local officer in charge of the police, this little bub was handed to my mum to mind for a few hours while the parents were located ( off drinking and fighting) My mother longed to foster this beautiful little girl, knowing full well the history of the parents, but nooooo – baby was handed back to parents.

    That baby died at 6 months old from malnutrition. I fear not much has changed in decades….

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  12. Kate

    Hi Mia,

    No one would argue that the parents of this child did the right thing. But like all stories in the media, the general public rarely get the full story and although it’s a terrible and very dangerous thing to have happened, we don’t know the reasons behind what happened.

    I hardly think it’s appropriate to use this as an example of bad parenting to justify the judgey parenting articles that are published on this site. I’m all for discussion and civilised debate myself. The problem is that many of the articles on this site that inflame people do so because of the tone that the article is written in. I recognise that you never please everyone all of the time, but when articles are narky, your readers pick it up pretty quick. If you truly want a civilised discussion on different parenting techniques on this site, maybe it’s time to be a little more cautious in how articles are written and the messages they try to convey.

    Just a thought.

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    • Plain Jane

      Was about to post a response to Mia, but you’ve summed up my thoughts beautifully!

      The only thing I would add is that the picture of a baby doll face down in gravel is unnecessary and a little misleading. This story is emotive enough without the image.

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    • Michelle

      I agree. I wrote a similar thing yesterday, but my comment has been removed. Mine wasn’t rude but yours definitely is more gently expressed. I was highlighting the divisive nature of the articles on here and the apparent motivation for that.

      Funny how the nasty, petty and judgmental comments remain but the ones questioning the integrity of the site are removed. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why.

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    • Joey

      It’s true that this is Mia’s site and as such she can soapbox all she likes. I just wonder if she realizes how polarizing her comments can sometimes be. In principle I actually agree with Mia’s stance, but her tone is sometimes so patronizing and belittling of anyone who does not agree with her that I feel almost compelled to play the devil’s advocate. Perhaps that’s part of it, to drum up hits and comments. The sad thing is that all this “mummy war” stuff has caused me to lose respect for Mia in some ways, it’s like she’s on her own personal crusade and is almost fundamentalist in what she thinks are appropriate views. This is scary as I have noticed in the past that Mia has been called upon to represent women’s views in various forums. I’m scared of anyone who thinks that they know so much about a given topic that what they say is the gospel truth and that everyone who does not agree is worthy of judgement.

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  13. Rebecca

    All well and good to say, “take the kid away”‘ but away to where? Child services are severely stretched and there are not enough foster homes.

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  14. Betty Boop

    I doubt there was person who heard this news item and wasn’t shocked. But what is the point of this post? An opportunity to give everyone else a chance to pat themselves on the back by having a bitch about this ‘bad’ mother? Honestly, none of us know anything about the circumstances in this case.

    What a load of baloney it is to say that “Parenting is a privilege – not an automatic right.” And who is it that shall decide and bestow the right to that privilege? Pfffttttt……rights have nothing to do with it. Humans, just like every other animal species, have the biological ability to reproduce – and unfotunately many do so indiscriminately – have done so since time immemorial, and will I suspect, go on doing so. Nothing to do with rights or privileges! Unless of course we want to institute a system of licensing people for the right to reproduce.

    This also has nothing at all to the with the ‘mummy wars’. The ‘mummy wars’ constantly stoked on this site would be the mockery of any mother who does things differently to the author – like making a birth plan, insisting on a drug free delivery, having their baby at home (OMG!), not vaccinating (double OMG), spelling their child’s name differently, or heaven forbid, making up an entirely new name (WTF) and many other topics particularly dealing with babies. And it’s usually not the subject matter that is the biggest problem, it’s the self-righteous condescending way the articles are written.

    Are there bad parents? Of course there are! Personally, I like to call them the ‘scummy mummies’. The ones who don’t treat their child’s head lice. The ones who send their kids to school without breakfast and sometimes without lunch. The ones who think a mini packet of chips and a mini packet of biscuits and a sugar filled yoghurt constitute a good lunch. The ones who don’t have set bed times for their young children and allow them to stay up till all hours watching lord only knows what crap on TV. The ones who never read to their children. The ones who don’t do homework with the kids or even unsure that the kid does it. The ones who take no interest in their children’s education because they believe ‘that’s what I send them to school for’. The ones who allow their kids to go barefoot in public! The ones who dress their kids (particularly their daughters) in inappropriate clothes. And the list goes on………… And, fortunately, I don’t have a public platform from which to bitch about the scummy mummies. Their failings become a topic for the voices in my head, not the whole nation.

    Personally, I’ve long believed there should be a minimum IQ (somewhere around 120) below which people are simply not permitted to reproduce. :-)

    I see some below wanted birth control handed out with drugs to the druggies. Hell, why stop there, lets put it in the water supply and make everyone apply for a permit to reproduce. :-) :-) ;-)

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    • amandarose

      I must be a scummy mummy then as my kids regularly go about with out shoes. They own plenty of them but hat wearing them and I say why push the issue with a 4 year old.

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      • crankymum

        I live in Darwin where shoes aren’t that important, went to visit family down south and quickly ran into the shops with no shoes on with my barefoot son (we had been to the beach)…….to buy nit lotion…I felt like the scum of the Earth…..

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    • Jen

      Letting your kids go barefoot in public qualifies you as a bad parent?!?

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      • amandarose

        Watch out- The mummy judgers and going to come for us and take our babies!

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        • Jen

          It’s good to have someone to side with Amandarose… they’ll have to take us down together… although if I also admit to letting my kids eat sugar filled yoghurt will you abandon me as well??

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          • Amandarose

            I prefer to think of it as calcium filled yoghurt!

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    • seaghan

      In North Queensland the kids can go to school barefoot, but they have to wear hats.

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      • Lucinda

        Yeah and we ride kangaroos to school too.

        There are few schools left in north Queensland where the kids can get away with no shoes. It’s a health and safety issue. I’d be hard pressed to think of one in the Cairns area. Once upon a time that was the case, but they weren’t as strict about hats either then – and this would have been the case in many places at the time.

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        • Jen

          When I went to school in Cairns we could go barefoot but weren’t allowed to wear thongs :) . But those days are definitely (and sadly) gone.

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    • Faybian

      An IQ of 120 hey? That certainly cuts out, well most people really, doesn’t it, given the statistical average is 100.
      Maybe you and the voices in your head need to chill out. :)

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      • Ivy

        Yes Betty bloop should calm down. All her comments are not bad parenting. If my child eats tiny teddies on a Saturday morning before soccer practice as a treat it is not a big deal. If my boys are barefoot in the park or god forbid on the footpath so what. I am more concerned about the hyper critical parenting that don’t let their kids or themselves relax. If we also consider iq levels as criteria for parenting how about personality traits, fitness, agility etc because these could rule most of us out.

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        • Faybian

          I regularly put yoghurt and tiny teddies et al in my kids lunches. Oops.
          I have to admit that I make sure my kids have shoes when we go out, but that’s a personal soapbox of mine.
          There is a short parenting course called “circle of security”. It’s an early years course, psychology based (and researched) and states that if you get your parenting right 30% of the time, your kids will be ok.
          30% ppl! I think a lot of people need to calm down.

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  15. Responsible

    It amazes me how many people are quick to label drugs as the cause of their actions and to throw the parents in gaol. There were no facts to the circumstances here.
    Most are saying there is no excuse that could facilitate any compassion. Well I now present one to you:
    A new mother (no matter how stable she normally is) suffering severe PND and in the midst if a psychotic episode may commit an act as terrible as this.
    I am not stating that this is the case, but it is still a possible scenario.
    Does she then deserve to not receive help and be given the chance to get better and raise her child?

    Before judgement is passed you need the facts. Whatever the facts are, the media coverage of this case will ensure that the authorities do their job properly for this child.

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    • Eva

      Could. Not. Agree. More

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    • Lucinda

      It is because the couple were found several blocks away at a train station. A train station at 3am. Do you not acknowledge that drugs or alcohol are a probable factor in this incident? There is a chance that drugs were not involved – in which case, I’d eat my hat.

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    • Michelle

      What about the father? The *couple* was found at the train station. Even if the mother was suffering from PPD or having a psychotic episode or a panic attack or something that may begin to explain how she could do such a thing, the father was there with her. What’s his excuse?

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  16. Lucinda

    I just read that this baby has been returned to it’s parents and they have not been charged.

    I just hope these social workers do the job that needs to be done – I think we are too soft on parents these days and I fear that this is not the first negligent act they have committed, nor will it be the last. I sincerely hope that this poor child is not found dead next time.

    I honestly do have compassion for people with severe problems who need help – but I worry that the rights of those people to keep their children are trumping the right of the child to be safe and cared for. In some instances taking children away from their families is more distressing for the child than staying, but so often I wonder how many would be better off living in other arrangements. What a sad situation this is.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/baby-allegedly-abandoned-on-cold-night-on-joseph-street-lidcombe/story-fndo4bst-1226444452098

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  17. tastebud

    “Sure, it may have saved your sanity but at what cost?”

    Much better she’d headed to the nearest padded cell then?

    I accept this view exists. It’s the accompanying zealotry which still manages to shock me.

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  18. Kat

    I thought this was such a logical, calming, self-explanatory post that EVERYONE would agree!
    You know, the “we shouldn’t pick on each other as parents unless it’s truly warranted” type of deal ?
    Trying to unite the vast majority of mums instead of letting us bitch at each other?
    No?
    Apparently, not.
    It must’ve been the links to the immunising and freebirthing stuff.
    But I agree with Mia about that too.
    So, thumbs-up from me.

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  19. kateb

    “Parenting is a privilege – not an automatic right. Being able to reproduce does not automatically make you a good parent. Just ask child services about that.’

    Right on Mia!!!!!

    I am always suprised when a child is returned to their parents for a 2nd or 3 rd time because the biological parent is paramount to the childs life.

    I have taught for years and have come across children who are passed back and forth between foster parents and the “real” parents, I know of many people who wish to adopt and need to go over seas to have a child .

    we seem, as a society, to put the parent before the child

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  20. georgieandthree

    Oh blah-di-blah-blah. Self-justification much? Controlled crying is ok, formula feeding is ok, elective C-sections for no medical reason are ok but freebirth and not vaccinating are crimes to the level of abandoning a 6 week old infant in a freezing cold street? I don’t think *any* of those things are on a level with that, btw, but they all have risks to the infant and mother. Thanks for drawing the line in the sand in a completely ridiculous place to justify your own bigotry.

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  21. Scarlett Harris

    This is why you should be issued a license before you have children.

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  22. Natasha

    A family I knew had 2 kids under 7 and used to put them to bed on a sat night and go out party and get drunk , alone, unsupervised. They would come home in the early hours of Sunday morning. Party drugs where their preference. Thankfully nothing ever happened. However to those having compassion for irresponsible parents, how would you react if a fire took place whilst the parents were out partying & their childre perished i ask you?

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    • Anonymous

      Why didnt you call docs?

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  23. Anonymous

    Well said xx

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  24. Anna E

    I’ve said it before. The big flaw in human creation was for the sperm and ovary not to able to determine fitness to parent before joining. It’s one of the most unfair aspects of life, and the victims are the most vulnerable members of society.

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  25. Sara h

    Some people just shouldn’t be allowed to breed…..

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  26. redqueen

    This makes me so mad, some people just don’t deserve to be parents. My lovely best friend is about to endure another round of IVF and she would make a fantastic mum.

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  27. Min

    Brace yourself for more self righteous indignation. Baby is safe and well and back with his parents.

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    • Sophie

      A lucky escape.

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    • gypsy

      Are you serious?

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    • Lizi

      Where to from here?

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    • Jackie

      Till next time…

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    • Megs

      News tonight said bub is in government care for now…

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  28. Angie

    I agree with Mia on this one x 1000.

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  29. Sophie

    Shades of little Keisha. Tragically, the poor little baby doesn’t stand a chance. It’s so unfair, not all of us start from the same place in life.

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  30. carla83

    Last night I heard the first MM show on the Fox driving home for work and I was thinking, “Go Mia, how great the Mamamia brand is growing”. Then I read this.

    Why write a post that you KNOW will just incite so many furious comments and bring up the same comments over and over? This is a police matter, noone knows the circumstances, it is shocking but what else is there to say?

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    • Min

      Agreed. This is a shallow, pointless article that does nothing but entrench prejudice and provoke predictable outrage that won’t achieve a thing. It’s a teaser for what we’ll be seeing on tabloid TV tonight.

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    • Lucinda

      It’s a current topic of interest. It’s in the news. Of course it is going to incite debate. If the MM team never published anything that was going to cause debate, they wouldn’t get any hits, and then advertisers wouldn’t pay for space… and we wouldn’t pay because it would be boring, so there would be no Mamamia. Can you see how this works here?

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      • Min

        Of course it’s about generating hits. And of course this topic is worth debating.

        But it could have been presented with a little more intelligence and depth, rather than: “this is what a bad parent is. black and white. they should all be lynched. let’s all grab our pitchforks, follow Mia, and join in the sport”

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      • carla83

        Thank you Lucinda – very insightful of you.

        I agree with Min. I love MM for the majority of the posts, but this post is really just pointless. It would have been better to be more general about the lack of support for parents with mental illnesses. Or ‘should parents with mental illness have their children taken away from them’. or ‘what to do with kids who have druggies as parents. Rather than picking up on a newstory and just going on about how normal mothers aren’t bad because this couple are worse.

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    • cath

      I don’t agree. It’s topical, it’s in the news, it’s what ‘everyone’s talking about’. That’s what this website is all about, whether you agree with the author of the post or not. I’m glad Mamamia posted an article on it.

      I think people are losing perspective on what Mamamia is about. I never feel as though Mia and the other posters are ramming their opinions down our throats. They are writers, they are offering their opinions, then inviting debate on the subject, they don’t ask that everyone agree with them. What is so wrong with that?? If you’re not interested in reading about that particular topic, then don’t click on it!

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      • carla83

        i didn’t say I’m not interested in reading about it. I actually am saying that there was no point to the article, which another commenter ‘Bryter’ also pointed out, and got shot down for saying so. There is no critical analysis or real discussion about why it was bad. And the reason for that, is because it’s a news piece with no body to the story because it just happened.

        What about picking up an older story that we know more about and analysing that. I could see the value in that.

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  31. Lucinda

    So I’d be guessing these parents were in a dark corner somewhere busy shooting up? Makes my stomach turn. Some people need to be sterilised.

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    • anonymoose

      Thats correct you would be GUESSING.
      I wouldnt go around advocating involuntary sterilisation without some proof personally.

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      • Lucinda

        Well I’d be advocating sterilisation for this couple. I have no sympathy for them.

        And I’d be quite confident that my guess would accurate. I’d bet on it. But enjoy defending this couples actions.

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        • Anonymous

          “anonymoose” is not defending anyone Lucinda! That’s the whole point. None of us know what happened so we shouldn’t be defending or condemning.

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          • Lucinda

            The couple left a 6 week old baby on the street near a railway station at 3am on a cold winters night for MORE than an hour. Whatever their reasons, they deserve condemning. Some people would be changing their tunes if the baby had been found dead from hypothermia.

            Now I don’t know about you, but I can’t think of too many reasons why a couple would be out at 3am near a railway station with an infant, fighting. The idea that they were off their faces or looking for another hit is highly likely and I am not going to shy away from saying so. They certainly weren’t just going for an evening stroll. No one of sound mind goes out with a baby at that time and leaves them unattended for that length of time. I say condemn away.

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            • Betty Boop

              I hope you never make any mistakes.

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        • Rose

          I’d rather advocate support services and family counselling. This is a horrible, horrible case, and it makes me feel ill to think of a child treated like this, but people deserve a chance, not forced sterilisation. We don’t know enough about this couple to condemn them so harshly.

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          • aloha

            Nope, sorry. What chance does the child get?? I agree with Mia on this one. When the rights of parents outweigh the rights and wellbeing of the child, something is very wrong.

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            • Rose

              I’m not necessarily advocating they get to keep the child, but really, I don’t know the whole story so I won’t speak in absolutes. I definitely believe in the child’s rights taking priority over the parents’, but these people seem troubled – whether they keep the baby or not (and they should be very, very grateful if they do get to after this), they need counselling, support, and resources to move forward.

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    • Moi

      Lucinda I’m with you. Actually, i don’t care if they were shooting up or feeding the homeless, the fact that they left a baby unattended in the middle of night and in winter is just wrong.

      I will judge these people, I will speak my mind and I will do anything to protect the rights of children, and two of those rights being that they are kept safe and they are looked after.

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  32. anon

    Even more tragic, from what I understand, is when a child is taken from their parent/s custody and into foster care, the decision for them to be adopted by a loving family is still the parent/s who have lost custody of the child.

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    • Sara h

      Yes the adoption process needs to be approved by the parents, however you can have a long term care order, not the same I know but it doesn’t mean the child won’t ever go back

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  33. Suey

    The plight of this poor infant rips at your heart. Mia, you have accurately described these parents as “bad”. Having a child does not make a parent. How many more babies are out there suffering a plight similiar to this child. At least this child’s chance of a secure future, with warmth, food, shelter and the basic needs, has increased. I am sure there is someone out there only to willing to give him their love.

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  34. chocolate aeroplane

    Thanks Mia. This exact topic has been playing on my mind lately, especially with this morning news about that poor baby boy. You’ve put my thoughts into words perfectly. :-)

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  35. Sk

    This poor baby is only one of thousands of abused and neglected children but we can’t remove them from their parents without very good reason, and if it’s an Aboriginal child, then only after extreme intervention and excessive abuse.

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    • Anonymous

      Yeah it’s a tricky one isn’t it. No-one wants another stolen generation but I think they have swung too far in the other direction (leaving kids in dangerous situations for far too long and giving parents too many chances).

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  36. mostly

    This is a real sore point for me. My sister is one of those bad parents. We have been working with the police, DOCS and other organisations since my niece was born four years ago.
    It is true that these organisations monitor the situation but ultimately they do whatever they can to keep child and mother together.
    This keeps me awake at night.
    Why do the rights of the parent supersede the right of the child?

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    • Anonymous

      Babies can’t vote? I believe that is what it comes down to. Not many people are going to change their vote based on whoever is doing the most for children. People care more about tax rates or whatever. Any issues to do with children are just swept under the carpet because no-one can be bothered. If there are no votes in it why would they bother?

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      • Mostly

        I am trying to vote for her, Anonymous.
        We have been told to continue calling the police, continue taking photos which provide evidence of physical harm, keep doing our best to normalise her life when she is in our care.
        My point is: what is te bottom line here? No-one seems to take accountability. Just give us pityng looks and encourage our positive influence. It is baffling and terrifying and some days feels hopeless.

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        • Anonymous

          There is a lobby group calling Early Childhood Australia – A voice for young children. Maybe if you contact them they could offer some advice?

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        • Alex

          Mostly – I wish you the best of luck in this situation. It will make all the difference in her life to know that there are people who care about her and love her and are proud of her. It must be heartbreaking to send her back each time.
          Stay strong

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        • Mosquitonet

          Don’t give up Mostly. Have walked this same road with a family member’s child. He was a born into a hopeless situation and for years and years we battled for his rights and there were many days where it felt absolutely hopeless. But he is now a teenager, a healthy functional one who is old enough to make his own decisions about who he lives with and all with an amazing understanding of his life and the choices his parents have made. Just keeping loving your niece and persisting with the police, DOCS and whoever else has some power to help your plight – every now and then you strike someone who restores your faith and gets you through the next stretch. Your niece is very lucky to have people loving her and looking out for her.

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    • katherine anne

      You are seriously amazing and I’m so sorry for your situation.
      Keep up the good work.

      Hugs
      XO

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    • Mia

      Mostly, what an awful situation for your family…..
      Strength to you all.
      x

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      • Jac

        Mostly, have you offered officially to take your niece in? I’m guessing yes but am Surprised as I know people Inside docs and think they often do place kids with responsible family if it’s possible.
        Keep making lots of noise, it might just happen and best of luck

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    • Kelly

      Mostly, I am so sorry for you, your family and your poor little niece. I can’t imagine how torn and troubled you must feel about this whole thing. As Mia says, strength to you all x

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    • Mostly

      Thank you everyone for your supportive comments.
      Yes we have offered to take her on as we are in a great situation to – stable home, double income etc – but the authorities insist on doing whatever they can to manage the situation while my sister is the primary carer. Ironically, if we weren’t involved in her life she would have been removed long ago. It is a cruel irony indeed.
      We will keep making noise.
      Thank you xx

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  37. Cat

    I felt myself nodding fiercely and passionately at everything you said Mia.
    Thank you for this article and putting things into perspective so well.
    Absolutely loving Mamamia these days – strong, intelligent, amazeballs.

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  38. Maree

    Mia you’ve hit the nail on the head. You know the sad thing though? That poor child will probably go back with the parents because it’s all about trying to work it out for the sake of the family (I know I work at DOCS) and the reality is that child will most likely be screwed up if this is an indication of the way the family lives. Fact. If the child was adopted out to a loving caring family he/she might have half a chance in life…

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    • Megs

      It makes me want to cry. I lived next door to a couple that fought/drank/screamed/smashed things… then they had a baby, and nothing changed. We ended up with the police ph number on speed dial. It was so heartbreaking, and I often wonder what ended up happening with that child?

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  39. Anonymous

    Talking and Judging are two difference things……

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  40. Natasha

    For all those people feeling pity for these twits of parents, I ask you , would you feel the same compassion if they shot up , stole a car and in their high state killed your son or daugher?

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    • b

      I don’t know that it’s pity – I think it’s people questioning WHY this has happened. It’s really easy to call people twits, idiot, bad, losers, assholes but that doesn’t do anything to break the cycle and make sure that this baby doesn’t grow up to be just as abusive as his own parents.

      I don’t pity them (and I don’t think that the baby should be back in their care) but I am interested to know what has happened to make them act this way – if only so that we can start doing something to stop it happening. Afterall we’re not really just talking about only two people in the population. Child abuse is sadly very common and often (not always!) the child who is abused will grow up to abuse. Calling their parents stupid does nothing to address the issue.

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  41. anon

    I went to Uni in that area, and apart from my old campus there’s a large cemetary and also a golf course, so early in the morning it would be a pretty dark and secluded place to be.
    Cant think of much else they would be doing there with a baby at 3am than something illegal. I dont understand why they have been given a second chance by being allowed to take the baby home with them. Tragic and very upsetting.

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  42. nina

    When I read this my first feeling was not one of anger or rage towards the parents- but sadness for everyone involved in this situation. It’s terribly tragic and I suspect that the parents of this baby will have problems which extend well beyond ‘parenting problems’.

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  43. Kerr

    You have to care about the parents to care about the child. Chances are that baby will go home with its parents and that is why you need to acknowledge issues and work on helping the parent. It’s too simplistic to say ‘I hope they go to a good family’ because more than likely they will not be removed from their parents.

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  44. Mimble

    My comments don’t appear to have shown up, so I’ll try this again :)

    I find these kind of issues really difficult to pin down. I was raised by a mentally ill mother in an extreme and traumatic environment as a child. Years of extremely hard work mean I am functional these days and, I will say, a great mum.

    But I also know how my mum ended up in the situation she was in, how she ended up being such a poor parent. She was born to an unwed Catholic woman in 1940s Ireland. No one was prepared to support my grandmother and so she gave my mother up to an orphanage. If at this point support and help had been available to my grandmother, huge amounts of grief could have been avoided. My mother was eventually reclaimed by my grandmother and her new husband who sexually, physically and emotionally abused my mother and her siblings. Again, had support been available to my grandmother then, significant amounts of grief could have been avoided. This was a middle class family. Everyone in the family and extended family knew what was happening. No one took action.

    My mum went on to parent me is a chaotic, cruel and confusing way. She was a single parent, and despite a middle class upbringing, due to her own trauma did not find jobs on anything other than a low income. If someone had stepped in to provide her with support – family, child care workers or teachers, family friends – anyone – again significant amounts of grief could have been avoided.

    What kind of support am I talking about? Well, I guess properly funded services to help single and struggling parents, low income parents, young mothers; people to step up and say ‘hey, are you ok?’ People offering to babysit, offering respite, friend’s parent’s offering to have me in their homes so mum and I could have a break. My dad stepping up to the plate.

    But these are things we so often don’t do – we worry that people will think we’re intruding, we judge and isolate, we decide it’s all too hard and probably none of our business. When I talk above about the points at which others might have intervened I don’t do so with anger or judgement, just an awareness that we lived in a very closed off community.

    I should have been removed from my mum – but where to? And where should this little baby be sent? It is not as simple as saying ‘lets send them to a loving home’. Traumatised babies aren’t puppies – there isn’t a queue of people waiting to look after the abandoned ones. There is so much baggage that comes with a child like that. Long term baggage that involves the complexities of adoption, poverty, potentially generations of unhappiness.
    These parents are bad parents, but our communities, and the communities involved in the history of these two people have also let these people down, and let this little baby down. Judge away by all means, but next time you see something going wrong, sensitively, empathetically, step up and doing something about it.

    Poor parenting shouldn’t be excused but the reasons behind it need to be addressed too.

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    • Googler

      Fantastic comment and a unique insight.

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    • tastebud

      What googler said!

      Kudos to you for taking the (often harder) road of acknowledging ALL the factors involved which lead to yours and your family’s experience. Of course, it would be so much easier to live in the landscapes of either black / white, right / wrong, good / bad.

      If you can appreciate all this – after everything you’ve been through – surely any armchair critic can too?

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    • sparkie

      I agree , its an incredibly complex problem I dont condone these alleged actions but take the child away and put him where?

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  45. Anonymous this time

    Want to make a difference?

    http://www.communities.qld.gov.au/childsafety/foster-care/foster-a-future

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  46. LadySarah

    Some of the comments made are making me furious.
    The assumptions that drugs were involved. Obviously something has gone awry in the situation. No doubt. But people are SO quick to point the finger. Drugs, alcohol, you name it. I have a saying learnt from many sessions of youth work training. “Do you know what life is like for that person?” – Unless they choose to disclose, like hell you do. If you don’t know, hold your tongue and ill-fated opinions. In the meantime, just hope that whatever has gone wrong for these people – that a solution is found that benefits all 3 people concerned.

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    • Mum of Two

      Dont care what life is like for those people, or what excuse they may have, they left a six week old baby on the street in the middle of winter. Period, thats is how I formed my opinion, that act is beyond human, they didn’t even enquire after its welfare when the cops found them. They DO NOT deserve to have custody of that child.

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      • LadySarah

        It’s not “beyond human” if you have a true and accurate understanding of the parents neurological positioning, general life skills, and ability to comprehend everyday things. Which we don’t. Be Because we don’t have a freaking clue. We’ve never walked a day in these peoples shoes. I have so much sadness for this child, but also understanding that these people may be 100% unable to fathom what is happening around them, which for some people in our community, is a true fact. So before I judge, I like to know all the facts. Mia has not given all the facts, because frankly, she doesn’t know them all. End of story.

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        • Lara

          Same people are shit human beings period

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          • LadySarah

            I don’t agree, I think everyone has some capacity for change. But each to his own.

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            • Natasha

              Lady jane would you’have compassionate for the drunk pedophile that raped your your your baby girl? Would you look at his life and say poor man. Would you try and help him emotionally after discovering he ripped apart your babies insides… Please.

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            • nina

              Wow. Natasha with the wild and violent hypotheticals!

              I feel addiction and violence are not mutually exclusive. Dangerous conduct and child abuse/neglect can be inflicted by anyone, including the stone cold sober. Robert Farquharson..Arthur Freeman. I’m sure plenty of justifiably normal people with textbook upbringings can commit unbearable crimes.

              And I can’t tolerate the hating on addicts, who often are engaging in their own self sabotage.

              There was someone I dearly loved who suffered from addiction. I know why she engaged in substance abuse and I don’t blame her for the choices she made. She was an intelligent, beautiful and extremely gentle soul.

              When I read crass comments about sterilizing druggies, etc. I feel pretty crushed…particularly for any recovering addicts reading also.

              Not everyone has to be a drug addict, an Aboriginal or mentally unwell to be a bad parent….the tunnel vision astounds.

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          • Lealeah28

            Lara, I completely agree. I have seen enough to know this for a fact.

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            • LadySarah

              As I said, each to his/her own. Thank you for not calling me foolish or ignorant, as other people have.

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        • CarmenR

          I think the point Mia and other commenters are making is that if these people are as you say “unable to fathom what is happening around them”, then they definitely shouldn’t be left in charge of the welfare of a child.
          Having the ability to reproduce doesn’t give you the right to mistreat a child. If these people were left in charge of another persons child and did this same thing, they would probably suffer more consequences than they will in this instance.
          Why our system allows parents to be able to mistreat their children and then allow children back into the parents care is beyond me. Sure these people more than likely need help beyond parenting skills and they should get it but not at the expense of the child being able to grow up in a safe, stable and loving environment. We will never break the cycle while our system remains as it is.

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        • MJ

          I agree that we can’t comment with authority on this case because we don’t know all the facts.
          But I work in a hospital and the things that I have seen people do to children is enough to convince me that some people are just bad, shitty people.
          I think that there is a line, and some of the things I have seen definitely cross it. I believe there are some things that are just inexcusable.

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        • Anon

          Why should the baby have to suffer whilst we seek to understand the plight of the parents. Of course as a society we should try to improve the lives of those suffering mental illness or drug addiction and try to prevent these happening in the first place but not at the expense of this individual baby

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  47. Sarah E

    On the morning news bulletin in Perth they showed the couple leaving the police station with the baby, and reported that “no charges had been laid”. The police couldn’t confirm whether it was a one-off incident or whether there was a history of abuse or neglect.
    Am I missing something? I dont understand why they didnt charge them with anything (abandonment, neglect).
    Obviously we don’t know all the details, but I am concerned that they were able to take the baby home, after leaving him in the street.

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    • anonymoose

      Hopefully a very thorough child protection investigation will commence immediately.

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      • Sarah E

        I would hope some sort of investigation would take place.
        These parents obviously need some immediate assistance – hopefully that would be more constructive than just labelling them bad parents (although what did was inexcusable).

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      • Anonymous

        Actually I think the baby is still at the hospital and you just saw them with the baby capsule. They put it in the back of a taxi and I didn’t see the baby at all.

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        • Sarah E

          You’re probably right Anonymous. I just saw the car driving away in the news report. I hope the baby is in the hospital and doing well.
          Guess that’s a good example of me making comment before I had all the facts!

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    • Anonymous

      Maybe they didn’t abandon the baby? Maybe they left the baby with someone and that person abandoned the baby. We don’t know and should suspend judgement until we do.

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  48. Anonymous

    Mia, would you label a mother in a wheelchair who could not pick up her child out of the cot when they were crying a bad mother?

    How about a father who did not go to their child when they were crying because he was deaf and could not hear? Are they bad parents??

    Most of the people in these stories have either a mental illness, a drug addiction or a combination of both.

    it is widely recognised that all examples above are considered “illnesses” of some sort.

    Just like the mother in the wheelchair or the deaf father, these parents are no more able to parent fully due to ILLNESSES.

    You sitting there judging people for their poor choices is doing NOTHING to help the situation.
    these people are not bad parents, they are drug addicts, have mental illnesses etc.

    Instead of writing judgy posts about them, why don’t you do some investigating and find out HOW people get to this point, how we as a society can help them.
    Telling them they are bad is doing nothing except make you feel better and superior than they are. good for you, do you feel better now?
    You are a better parent than someone with a mental illness.
    You win todays parenting medal.

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    • Anonymous

      You are responsible in life for your behaviour. The deaf parent with a baby would have to have an aid, the wheelchair bound mother would have to have an aid. The drug addict who chooses to neglect their baby and dump in the street because they want their next fix needs to have that baby removed from their care and spend some time in jail and suffering .

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    • Lara

      Question for you. If a person killed your child whilst drink driving would you turn around and say oh dear, let me help him he has a mental illness or an addiction. .? Or would you be mad at him or her .?

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    • Mia

      Hi Anonymous,
      You seem to have misunderstood the point of this post and the reason I wrote it. So much is written and said about ‘bad parents’ or ‘bad behaviour’ when it comes to parenting – and in 90% of cases, these issues are minor.
      It’s utopian to believe there is no such thing as a bad parent – by recognising this as a community, we are able to take steps by alerting authorities who are best equipped to handle such cases. My point is that not everyone is ABLE to parent and not everyone should.
      And to suggest otherwise is throwing the dice on behalf of the most vulnerable people in our community – children.

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      • Anonymous

        It’s not what is being said, Mia. At all. Compassion is what is being highlighted here. Unfortunately, is something that is not even present for the parents in your piece of writing. You don’t know what circumstances they are in, yet you chose to write a post regardless. What if these parents were young parents, people with some sort of disability, or the inability to parent due to a miriad of reasons. None of that was highlighted ANYWHERE in your article. Like LadySarah said above, you don’t know what life is like for these people. It’s not utopian to want all 3 members of this family to have what they need – supported, to have all their needs met. It is a basic human right and desire. Not just for the child, but for those who conceived this child, regardless of what is happening right now for them.

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        • Megs

          But regardless of what their situation is – don’t we have a right to be upset first (rather than immediately compassionate) when someone leaves a baby in the freezing cold, alone, at 3am? If a person in a wheelchair left their baby alone in the street in the middle of winter, I would be just as disgusted and upset as I am at these parents. It’s not about the parents right now, it’s about the child.

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        • Anon

          I don’t think it should matter if they are young or are involved in difficult circumstances. They brought a child into this world and it is their responsibility to care for it. If for whatever reason they can’t there are other options, but there is no excuse for leaving a defenseless baby in the middle of a freezing cold street.

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    • Nora

      Being a person with disability is not an illness.

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      • Guest.

        There was no mention of it being an illness. The comment said “inability to parent” – Did it not? – Nor was it mentioned in the original piece.

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        • Nora

          Hey guest,

          I was responding to this anonymous comment above.

          “Mia, would you label a mother in a wheelchair who could not pick up her child out of the cot when they were crying a bad mother?

          How about a father who did not go to their child when they were crying because he was deaf and could not hear? Are they bad parents??

          it is widely recognised that all examples above are considered “illnesses” of some sort”

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          • Guest.

            Ah, my apologies. Carry on :)

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          • Anonymous

            The examples above

            i.e. .Mental illness and drug dependency and alcoholism ALL recognised ILLNESSES

            Carry on

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    • Don'tCompareDisabilityToNeglect

      My husband is Deaf and we have a beautiful 10 week old daughter. I resent the fact that you have compared neglect (a choice that someone has made to take an infant into the cold night and leave him unattended) to disability. My husband is an excellent father, and is very involved in the care of our daughter. If I need to leave the house we have a baby monitor that causes a light to flash so he is alerted to her crying, if in the future I am away at night we also have a vibrating box that will go under his pillow to alert him to crying at night. I know many Deaf couples who are also excellent parents to their children, all of them have some way to be alerted to crying when they are not in the same room as the baby. This is standard practice, people with disabilities are able to do everything required to care for their children, a disability does not cause someone to be neglectful. As anonymous said you are responsible for your behaviour. You can choose to be a responsible parent or not, a disability will not make you an irresponsible parent.

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      • Anonymous

        Did you miss the point of the original comment on purpose just so you could pretend to be offended?
        Because I am sure if you actually really read the original comment you would have seen that no one said a person who is deaf was a bad parent. It was a comparison between how people are so quick to judge someone with a mental illness over a person who may have a disability. i.e.: you would not say a person with a disability was a bad parent but apparently it is ok to call someone with a mental illness a bad parent when they make a poor decision due to their mental disability.
        So put away your fake outrage and find something real to be offended about.

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        • Lara

          You havent answered my question anon. What if one of these so called people with an illness killed one of you’d children when they were off their head. How would you react? With compassion? I dare you to answer me without contradicting yourself..

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          • Anonymous

            Compassion, forgiveness and anger are totally different things.

            you can have compassion for a person while still being angry for their actions, you can understand that they had mitigating factors that contributed to their actions and anyone with compassion can accept that while their actions might be hurtful, they can also be somewhat outside of their control.

            If a person with undiagnosed epilepsy crashed their car into mine and killed my child , I would be upset and probably a little angry but also have compassion that they are not totally at fault.
            Just like a parent who made a poor decision about the care of their child, while suffering with an illness,These people need help and compassion not judgement that helps no one at all, least of all the child. Go up a bit further in this thread and read the story by Mimble and then tell me what blame does to help anyone??

            Dare you too

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            • LadySarah

              Call me a fool, or whatever you like. I have to witness grief every single day, and I have also had to learn compassion, and mercy. It’s the only way I can do my job to 100% capacity. I work with young people who have had some HORRIBLE things happen to them. I have to regularly choose to love someone over anger, and hate. Foolish? Maybe. I don’t care. It’s how I choose to live my life, and you have NO RIGHT to tell me other wise.

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            • Natasha

              Being a drug addict is self inflicting. If you choose the drug and abandon your child shame on you. If you kill a child due to your drug addiction shame on you. An undiagnosed epilepsy fit v’s a drunk or druggie is a poor excuse for an example. Your answer is pathetic. I don’t believe for a Minute you would have compassion if one of these druggies killed your child. …

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            • Lucinda

              That is a TERRIBLE example. The couple in this case chose to leave their baby to freeze for an extended period of time.

              An undiagnosed (or any) epileptic has NO control over when they have a seizure. It is not their fault remotely if an accident happens, though they might still feel guilt. But having seizures is not a choice or a controllable element. Being neglectful and abandoning your child is.

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          • Anonymous

            Lady Sarah ,you fool

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        • Don'tCompareDisabilityToNeglect

          Sorry, I didn’t realise that I was pretending to be offended. I heard you loud and clear when you said “just like the mother in the wheelchair or the deaf father these people are no more able to parent because of ILLNESSES”.
          You have assumed people in wheelchairs and deaf people are unable to parent, and that is offensive. REALLY offensive. You have also assumed this couple are on drugs or have mental illness and that they are in some way not responsible for their actions, why is that the case?
          You can’t help the hand you are dealt but you choose how you play it.

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          • Natasha

            Dont worry anon is contradicting herself left , right & centre. She does not make any sense. Her argument is poor, it’s like saying a man who has a heart attack driving kills a child v’s a drug addict. Poor argument. .

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        • Sara h

          Sorry anonymous you are the one who needs to read! You need to read and. Take on board this woman’s response o deaf parents being compared to drug addicts and while I agree with you that it is an illness it is not one conducive to child rearing!

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        • Anonymous

          Pointless argument.

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        • Lara

          Pointless argument anon.

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          • Hello

            I think I can see what Anonymous is trying to say here. It’s simple. All the examples are confusing things…

            Fact: no normal healthy sane mature sober human parent will abandon their baby to freeze to death.

            Fact: only a complex and extreme set of circumstances could precede such an act.

            Fact: no one knows anything about these circumstances.

            Fact: Mia is using this couple as an example to put mummy wars over bottle feeding etc into perspective. (a valid point.)

            Fact: hating on this pair won’t help.

            Fact: compassion and enquiry and understanding are always more useful than anger and judgement when faced with a disaster.

            Fact: as audience members watching this story, it doesn’t really matter how angry or compassionate anyone gets. It’s really up to the authorities & we all hope they figure it out in the baby’s best interests.

            Cool?

            In my opinion Mia makes a good point here. I am sick of the disrespect thrown around over first world parenting choices when there is a pretty clear difference between good parenting & damaging parenting. Also agree topics should stay open & still need thrashing. (like controlled crying – I strongly disagree with). Parenting Is an important topic, but let’s not go distancing ourselves from eachother. Let’s disagree respectfully and continue to engage in the debate in a positive way that seeks progress & let’s everyone off the hook when we can’t reach a consensus.

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        • Mia

          Anonymous – put your manners back in please. As Tom Cruise might say.

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    • MJ

      I think you can have good intentions and love your kids, but still be an unfit parent.
      If an illness prevents you from safely being able to care for a child, then you can’t care for a child. Even though having an illness is not your fault. Child’s safety has to come first.

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  49. theoriginalpinny

    I would really like to see some more honest reporting on this sort of thing.
    Of course drugs are involved in this story – heavily heavily involved. As they are in so many other things that are reported as accidents or unbelievable behaviour from ‘celebrities’ Drugs are a major major problem in our society. Its inapproriate to be shaking our heads wondering what these parents were thinking, they weren’t thinking at all. Its sad but its true. Its neglect and bad parenting for sure but the big thing missing from the story is that they were under the influence of drugs and at the train station to meet their dealer. Not talking about it makes it even more taboo and pushes the real issue under the carpet.
    I hope the baby boy is able to be given the appropiate medical help over the next few weeks as he withdraws from the drugs that he will also have become dependent upon, and that a good home is found for him.

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    • Anonymoose

      Please provide evidence that drugs were involved.

      If a journalist reports that drugs were involved because they assume as such they can be at risk of defamation.

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    • Faybian

      Apart from the fact that you actually have no evidence, unless you were there and taking the drugs with them, you don’t know that the baby is also addicted to drugs.
      Generally babies withdraw from drugs in special care in the hospital……

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  50. beee

    I agree. While it’s a terrible notion to say some people are “bad” parents, they still exist. Some are absolutely shocking parents who should have never had children in the first place. I know this will rub people up the wrong way but it’s the truth.

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    • Some random

      I don’t think that’s a far off assumption to make. I used to work with a woman who fell pregnant on her very first IVF cycle, at age 41. I’d like to be happy for her, as I know how hard it can be to conceive with IVF, but honestly I just feel sorry for the kid. Seriously, she was a terrible person.

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