Mamamia’s Managing Editor Lana writes: It’s hard for me to greet a child without commenting on how cute they are, how pretty or gorgeous or sweet they look. It’s like it’s hard wired into me to compliment children as I see them (maybe because I genuinely love children) which is why I read this piece from Professor of Gender Studies, Hugo Schwyzer published in Jezebel with glee. He writes:
This past Christmas night, my wife, daughter, and I went visited some friends for dinner. When my daughter walked through the door resplendent in a new outfit from Santa, our host, Tom, exclaimed “You look beautiful, Heloise!” His partner, Kate, shushed him. “You’re not supposed to tell little girls that they’re pretty,” she said, offering Eira and me an apologetic smile. “It gives them a complex.”
As Heloise ran off to play with the other kids, my wife and I assured Tom and Kate that we had no problem with a friendly compliment on our daughter’s appearance. But as she soon explained, like so many others, Kate had read and been influenced by one of the viral articles of 2011, Lisa Bloom’s How to Talk to Little Girls. (According to Facebook, it was the 12th most-shared article of 2011). In her much-read piece, Bloom argues that the best way to inoculate little girls against poor body image is to focus on everything but their looks. Praise their intellects but not their prettiness, she urges, telling the story of her encounter with a friend’s five year-old daughter, Maya. Bloom recounts spending an evening talking books with little Maya, forcing herself to stay away from any discussion of appearance.
Not once did we discuss clothes or hair or bodies or who was pretty. It’s surprising how hard it is to stay away from those topics with little girls, but I’m stubborn.
Bloom suggests that this stubborn avoidance of “beauty talk” will constitute “one tiny bit of opposition to a culture that sends all the wrong messages to our girls. One tiny nudge towards valuing female brains.” As a father to a daughter as well as someone who lectures and writes around body image, I’m all for pushing back against our society’s toxic messages about women’s bodies and their self-worth. But I’m not at all convinced that refusing to talk about fashion or beauty is the best answer.
For many years, I’ve offered a class at Pasadena City College called “Beauty and the Body in the Western Tradition.” The course looks at the intersecting histories of fashion, faith, and body ideals from the classical era to the present. Every time I teach it, I hear from students who express excitement about being able to study beauty as an academic subject.
Many explain that they were shamed or teased for having an interest in dress and hair when they were younger. A common theme: many very bright young women who were passionate about clothes report having had these interests belittled or mocked. They tell stories of being called “shallow” or “vain” for their interest in fashion. Caroline, one of the best students I’ve ever taught, told me that her high school math and English teachers were always surprised when she did well on tests or answered difficult questions. She said they saw her assiduous attention to her appearance (and the copies of Vogue that poked out of her bag) and dismissed her as a lightweight. “The message I got — from teachers even more than other students — was that smart girls don’t care about clothes, and girls who care about clothes aren’t smart. I said ‘fuck that.’” When Caroline told that story in class one day, she got vigorous nods of agreement. Her experience of being shamed for her interest in beauty is, as my students continually remind me, painfully common.
Lisa Bloom and my friend Kate make the same mistake of embracing a false dichotomy that says we can either talk to girls about beauty or talk to them about books, but not both. They believe that the only way to encourage young women’s intellectual development is to do what Bloom admits is the very difficult work of totally avoiding anything that has to do with appearance in order to focus solely on the mind. (Though she doesn’t mention sports, Bloom presumably would have less of a problem focusing on athletics — as long as the emphasis is on what girls’ bodies do rather than how they look).
In a culture that reminds them at every turn that their primary value is in their looks, girls do need constant encouragement that their minds matter as well. It is vital to talk to girls about books, about politics, about art, about sports, about ideas. But girls also need help navigating the confusing messages they get about their bodies. Very few problems are solved by not talking about them. That’s as true of girls’ feelings about beauty as anything else.
There’s a difference, of course, between never talking to girls about clothes or make-up (which sends the unhelpful message that such concerns are trivial, or evidence of superficiality) and actively praising little girls for being pretty. Bloom suggests we shouldn’t do either; others, like Kate, worry more about the latter. Certainly, many adults do lavish attention on girls’ looks. But that’s only a problem when they don’t compliment anything else. When girls are lauded for their other qualities, when they get support about their other interests, then attention for their appearance gets healthily integrated into the symphony of encouragement that all children need and deserve.
A day doesn’t go by that I don’t tell my daughter how beautiful she is. But I also praise her for the other things she does, and as she has grown more vocal, I engage her in conversation in a host of other topics. I read to Heloise every night — and each night, I help her pick out her outfit for the following day. My little girl loves clothes as well as books. And I want to encourage her in both passions without privileging either.
Obviously, I’m much more circumspect about complimenting my students’ looks. But in my professional work, I am careful to emphasize that beauty and fashion are worthy areas of historical inquiry as well as personal fascination. Lisa Bloom calls on adult women to be role models to girls by talking about ideas, accomplishments, and favorite books. That’s wonderful advice. But if clothes or hair turn out to be an area of mutual interest, it’s vital to talk about those things too. Girls need role models who can share how to cope with the pressures of a looks-obsessed culture. And sometimes, they need role models who can show them that a passion for fashion isn’t shallow, and that an interest in beauty can co-exist with a deep devotion to the life of the mind.
This article was originally published published on Jezebel with and has bee republished with full permission
Hugo Schwyzer is a professor of gender studies and history at Pasadena City College and a nationally-known speaker on sex, relationships, and masculinity. He blogs at his eponymous site and co-authored the autobiography of Carré Otis, Beauty, Disrupted.







Comments
95 Comments so far
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Yes! Some common sense at last. I thought Ms Blooms take on gender/girls/development to be ridiculous. I too have boys and a daughter, and I absolutely agree – you need to tell them that they are clever (of course!) and to encourage reading books, discussion, curiosity – but also that they are beautiful, lovely and unique (and I tell my sons the same). As an academic, I will teach them to question things…and that Includes one-dimensional books masquerading as expert advice.
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When I go to see my little cousins, I will usually compliment them on whatever skill they utilised to look so pretty that day. For example, instead of ‘your hair looks beautiful’, I’ll say ‘wow, did you do your hair on your own today? You did a really great job! Aren’t you clever’. It’s still a compliment on their looks I suppose, but it seems to focus on an ability rather than physicality.
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Love this article. My daughter is kind, smart, caring, funny and beautiful and I tell her all of these things. She’s not just one or the other, there’s no shame in making mistakes or not always understanding something, or sometimes putting herself first. It’s her choice what styles she adopts and what her interests are. And there’s nothing wrong with part of the mix that is her being someone who can take care with her sappearance and be complimented on it, or be carelessly gorgeous andbe appreciated for it. We all need to hear that someone is absolutely in love with how we look – even if it’s just our mum – but know that we are loved for who we are overall.
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As a child and teen I was continually told how beautiful I was. I came to rely on this outward beauty as my success, I truly believed it was all I needed to lead a wonderful and fulfilling life. What a shock to reach my 20′s and realize I actually needed a personality!! Conversation skills and a sense of humor if I wanted to make new friends and enjoy others company. as an adult I simply couldn’t get away with putting on a pretty frock and sitting quietly in a corner smiling and thanking all the compliments on my looks and shyly giggling when I had nothing to say. as an adult this is no longer seen as sweet and demure just rude, dumb and boring. My daughter is physically beautiful but I never tell her so. She hears it from other people. instead I focus on her personality traits and how clever she can be. It’s nice to be told you are pretty but it’s wonderful to be told youre thoughtful, clever, a great friend, or really witty
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Yes, but your experience (from the sounds of it) is actually as a “beautiful” person – according to the standards western society deams it. Most people are not told they are beautiful constantly, and are aware that they may be lacking, and might be insecure because of this. Because most people are Not models and society is very much centered on looks (look at your experience) it IS important to tell your children they are beautiful. They need to grow up feeling they Are beautiful – and often parents (until husbands or other important partners come on the scene) are the only people that Will tell an individual they are “beautiful” – whether or not this actually translates into “model” pretty. And yes, of course it is important to bring up children with intelligence, curiosity, dialouge – an interest in the world and those around them – but surely this is a given. As the writer of this author points out doing the above And telling your children they are beautiful do not have to exist as an either or scenerio.
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I always say to my kids “you are so cute” (as opposed to “you look so cute”) or “you are so beautiful” instead of “you look beautiful”. I hope that distinction is enough – focusing on them as an entity, rather than just how they look.
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I don’t know – what kind of idea about self is “cute” going to give them. What does it mean? I think my kids are cute as buttons (I have 4 under 5), and I tell they are “cute” all the time – it comes naturally, as I’m sure it does to most parents. But I also tell them they are “clever” “beautiful” “smart” “funny” “curious” “opinionated” (as a good thing) “handsome” “cheeky” etc etc. I’ve got to say – I don’t think “cute” as an idea about who they are is enough though – it’s like giving a child the idea that all they are is cream pie filing (sweet but with no substance).
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Every day, I praise my daughter. I tell her she’s beautiful, I acknowledge achievements, great and small, I encourage her efforts, I recognise her good manners, kindness and compassion and many, many more.
Each of these things is a part of who she is and I want to help her learn that every part of her is special. I believe ignoring the physical can be as damaging as ignoring the mind and I want my child to grow up comfortable with all parts of who she is.
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Yes! Well said – fully agree
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I think about this a lot. When it comes to praise I do have a problem with too much focus on the exterior – something which we can truly only control to a minimal extent.
I was regularly complimented on my appearance growing up but never by my mother.
Now as a mum I think I know why. For all her faults, in this sense I think she gave me a real gift. She takes relative pride in her appearance but mainly she eats well. With balance and without deprivation. She exercises regularly and just in general is very active. I’ve never heard her obsess about her appearance or seriously put herself down in this way.
She modeled a healthy approach to physical appearance
I tell my children to greet their reflection with “Hello Gorgeous” every day. I notice many things about them but I mainly focus on anything associated with EFFORT.
I try to be descriptive and try to resist being ingenuine.
According to Martin Seligman in “The Optimistic Child” the idea that blind praise and compliments build self-esteem doesn’t work.
I love fashion and am as vain as the next person. But like so much in life it seems to be about balance.
If I’m offering my children yardsticks to measure themselves by I really really want those yardsticks to be character, effort and behaviour!!!
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I can’t remember my parents ever particularly telling me that I’m beautiful. They would acknowledge my performance at school, which was always good, and tell me that I’m smart. But, in fact, I can remember them telling me, frequently, that my marks at school don’t matter as long as I try my hardest to achieve the best I can and behave in the best way possible. I was a straight A student and was shocked and upset the first time, at the age of 15, that I got an A-. My parents simply said that if I did the best that I could, it wouldn’t matter if I got a C or a D. My reaction was simply about my own expectations I set for myself. I applied the same expectations to my sport and even represented Australia as a teenager but my parents also reminded me that it didn’t matter if I got gold or whether I did a personal best time but that I did my best – it certainly made losing much more palatable! And, truth be told, if I’d done my best and came fourth I’d always feel better knowing that I’d tried my hardest than if I’d eased off and came first.
Everyone has different strengths. To be telling your children that they are smart is to remark on something that they have no control over – quite similar to being told that they are beautiful, really, in that respect. Acknowledge strengths, yes, but perhaps more importantly encourage them to be the best person they can be with what resources they’ve got.
Today I am happy and confident. Anything else – physical attractiveness, career success, marriage, earnings, material possessions – is irrelevant to my happiness because every day I remember what I was taught as a child. Be the best person you can be. For me, it works. And every boyfriend I’ve had has always told me that I’m beautiful – for me, I believe that it has nothing to do with how I look but rather my confidence and happiness that makes it so.
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For me it is not just about what you say to a child but also what you do. I tell both my children, a boy and a girl, that they are beautiful and that they have gorgeous smiles and eyes and that their faces make me happy. We all brush our hair and teeth together and I explain to them that it is important to be neat and tidy. But I also spend hours reading with them, and drawing, and looking for Wally and playing in the backyard. During those times I tell them that they have fast eyes to find something so quickly, clever fingers for drawing so well and speedy feet for racing in the yard. I praise them for sharing, for using manners and for being gentle with each other. I listen to them ask a million questions and try to answer them (or Google them) and so by engaging with them in that way I am showing them that their questions and their curiousity is important, without having to say it so directly. They would rather me be involved in answering their questions than just telling them that I think that they ask good questions.
I guess what I am trying to say is that although I do my best to acknowledge all the different aspects of my children, some things are better shown and others are better said. I do tell them that they are gorgeous because how else would they know if I don’t say it every day?
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My parents divorced when I was 3 and my sister about 20 months of age. My dad raised us and there were visits to my mum, when her whereabouts were known. My mum has mental health issues. My mum dated and had many “male friends” and I was always introduced as “This is Linda, she is the smart one”. My sister, “This is —– and she is the pretty one”. I am now 38 and having heard that said so many times, I have believed it throughout my life.They say that if you throw enough mud, eventually some of it will stick. There is no way that I would speak about or introduce my boys that way. There is so much more to who a person is.
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My grandmother described herself & her sisters (to my mother), as “I was the pretty one, T was the clever one, E was the sexy one”. And she was over 60 when she said this.
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It’s definitely important to celebrate all virtues in a little girl but to not mention anything at all about her physical qualities is just as damaging I feel. Girls (and boy) like to know that they are physically appealing and if their own parent can’t validate that for them, who will? Perhaps we should consider including presentation in praise at least. We can’t choose how we’re moulded at birth but we can encourage children to take pride in their appearance surely?
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“Her experience of being shamed for her interest in beauty is, as my students continually remind me, painfully common.”
Possibly not as common (painfully or not) as being shamed for a *lack* of interest in a devotion to the mechanics of ‘beauty’.
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Never telling your children they are pretty might work if noone else ever told them they were ugly – during their childhood or later. Children need to have their self esteem built up to defend against negative attacks later on in life.
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Best thing about the movie The Help was the nurse maid’s mantra to her little charges.
You are kind
You are smart
You are important
It’s what I now tell my little girl.
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I agree Sam. And I do the same.
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When my daughter graduated from grade 6 last year, her teachers signed a graduation bear. A few of them wrote ‘To Beautiful Sam…’ When I read these messages, I looked at her and said ‘You know they mean beautiful inside and out? That’s why they wrote it.’ I want her to grow up knowing she will not be judged for her looks alone. My husband is always telling her how beautiful she is, but he always slips in ‘and smart too!’
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When my 3 yo daughter asks me if she’s pretty I reply….
“Yes you are my darling and you are kind and funny and clever too!”
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I say to both my daughters every day:
You are kind
You are clever
You are gorgeous
You are important
Love this article.
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I intend to do the same when I have daughters. There is such a focus on external beauty for girls and I would hate that to be a focus of their self esteem.
As a little girl I was praised constantly for how pretty I was, possibly more than how smart I was.
When I was 7 I started to put on weight, cut my long curls and went a bit tom-boyish, and boy did the compliments stop! I was devastated. It seemed like being smart just wasn’t good enough, I needed to have the long hair and pink frilly dresses to receive the same attention from my extended family.
Ironically, when I was 18 and grew my hair out and lost weight was I was again told what a beautiful girl I was.
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I am a normal looking human…I’m not ugly, I’m not stunning! i am unique and i am confident. Partly cos of my personaity but hugely because my mum and dad always said i was beautiful. Inside and out…My mum still tells me and quite often strnagers how she thinks i am just the most beautiful girl….I know this means my insides but she thinks it of my outsides and i have to say, i dont have many body issues or issues with my looks…sure i would love to be slimmer sometimes or i wish my nose ws so crooked or maybe a little smaller, but honestly i am pretty happy with who i am! i would devestated if my Mum and Dad never thought i was a beautiful person though…its not really about being “pretty” more that my whole self as a human is a beautiful person…..I have a son and i encourage him all the time….if he has done a wonderful drawing i tell him or if he gets up in teh night to go to the toilet instead of wetting his pull ups, i tell him i am so proud of him, and i tell him every day how much i love his guts and he is just georgeous or beautiful….because thats how i truely feel about him…i dont go over the top about things but if he does something cute i tell him that its adorable or that he is a thoughtful little man and so caring! I have a baby girl cooking in my guts right now and i can assure u, i will tell her she is beautiful. I’m kind of over the ‘research’ and the ‘right’ way to raise girls vs boys….just love the crap out of them and make sure they know u think they are wonderful and be realistic about it. If u see a little girl who has walked in your door and she looks beautiful in her new outfit…tell her she looks wonderful in her new outfit…its human nature to react to how gorgeous kids can be and what they do…if u think its cute or pretty or lovely…fricken tell them…if i buy a new outfit and someone comments that i look good its a nice feeling…and there is nothing wrong with it!
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I read a really good book recently called “Children are People Too” by Louise Porter. One of the main points it made was the importance of acknowledgement as opposed to praise, in relation to helping a child develop healthy self esteem.
eg. “I like your drawing” is acknowledgement.
“That’s a good drawing” is praise.
As adults, I think most of us would agree that we also feel better about receiving acknowledgment than praise; we appreciate if someone says “You’re welcome” rather than “good girl” after we have thanked them, children feel the same as we do.
Anyway, I think this is very important, particularly when talking about children’s looks and clothes. I try to tell my kids that *I* think they’re beautiful, and I might compliment my daughter’s newfound ability to choose her own clothes and get herself dressed. I try to acknowledge the effort she puts in to doing things, her imagination, her concentration.
I also try to tell her that all parents think their kids are beautiful, because I do worry that all the talk about looks does have the potential to be harmful to kids who aren’t naturally beautiful.
Great article by the way. Would be great to see more on MM from Gender Studies academics.
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I fully subscribe to the theory that if a girl’s parents (especially her father) don’t tell her she is beautiful, she will seek that approval / compliments from other men when she is older.
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I agree. My father has always ‘joked’ about my looks – ‘pull your stomach in’, ‘you’ll get fat.’ ‘wow, your nose is crooked.’ etc etc and pointing out my ‘flaws’.
I’ve only just realised in my mid thirties, why I’ve been so effed up about my looks and always felt the need for approval. Thankfully my husband is wonderful and tells me everyday how beautiful I am. I know he means it too
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Hmmm just on my own experience I have to disagree.
I never knew my father and my (temporary) step-father never told me I was beautiful.
There may have been a period in my teens or 20′s where I was after that kind of approval. And I have my own set of hang ups which would give anyone a run for their money!
But I can’t say I seek approval or compliments from men about how I look. I can honestly say I prefer compliments from women about who I am.
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Hurrah!
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Two thoughts.
I have a friend in her late 30′s whose mother would never praise her appearance. My friend is blind, which means she can only build her sense of self beauty from others. When she finally confronted her mum last year, her mother said that she had always praised her intelligence, her character, her personality. These were more important. Yes, said my friend, but do you think I’m beautiful? Do you want me to lie? asked mum. They are now estranged. (not just because of that, but it didn’t help).
I also compliment my daughter on how beautiful she looks. Most of the time she likes it, sometimes she just wants to look like Abigail! Of course, I more often praise her for trying hard or being kind. But I want her to grow up knowing that at least one person in the world thinks she is beautiful.
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I am quite in the middle of this one. I do tell my daughter that she looks “cute” or “pretty” or “lovely”. But I don’t always to this when she is dressed up or playing with make up etc. I tell her she looks super cute in pairs of jeans, her PJ’s etc ’cause she does!
but I also praise her for lots of other things like “you are clever/ kind/ thoughful/ brave/ strong etc.
So I think it balances out…
I wasn’t the slightest bit interested in fashion until I was in my late 20′s- after I got out of the Army. I went from wearing grungy jeans and band T-shirts to a uniform. but my career change neccessitated a wardrobe change. In my experince smart women are often smart dressers/ fashion concious as well- it is part of the image you need/ want to project.
Growing up, I was never praised for how I looked but for what I could do and what I achieved. I think in a lot of ways it made me quite scornful of girls/ women who stressed about their weight/ looks.
I was thoroughly confused in pastoral care classes by all the girls talking about feeling awful and having their self esteem affected by glossy magazines. I just didn’t get why the picture of someone you didn’t even know and was paid to look good for a living affected you in any way? (I have a bit more insight as an adult)
However, this lead to me sterio -typing myself as being smart, but plain. and thinking that men wouldn’t be attracted to me, or that I would scare men off- i made so very stupid decisions romantically, and married the wrong, wrong, wrong man for all the wrong reasons.
I was the strange geeky goth girl and he was the captain of the rugby team. but he told me that he was the only one who would love me ( he was wrong) and I couldn’t believe that someone so handsome would be interested in plain ol’ me.The start of a very bad relationship- (whoever heard of telling a 50kg girl that she was fat and her botton “jiggled” when she walked” ?)
I think that it is important that girls know that they ARE beautiful , and clever, and brave and strong etc- these adjectives are not mutally exclusive.
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The one thing that annoys me when people are talking to little boys and girls today is when they tell them they look sexy. For goodness sakes, they’re toddlers. What is sexy about them? This is far more harmful than telling them they are pretty or handsome. Small girls in makeup and striking provocative poses in photos is startlingly common these days. Please don’t dress your little girls in skanky clothing and tell them they are sexy. What message is this sending them at such a young age?
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Wow that is truly awful, though I imagine very uncommon. With the amount of media attention and parental anxiety focused on paedophilia these days, I would have thought most people would stay well-clear of calling a child sexy. I have certainly never heard it happen.
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I here you on that one Stormgirl. I have an aquaintance that says it all the time! Not just about her kids but “Things”
like cars and chocholate cake… How can a chocolate cake be sexy? I dont really like to see her anymore because i dont really want my litttle girl even knowing what sexy IS let alone being called it.
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sexy adj. , -ier , -iest . Arousing or tending to arouse sexual desire or interest.
Given the above dictionary definition of sexy, it is hard to fathom why anyone would apply it to children. Let them just be children for a while.
Tripitaka, it is quite common among young mums these days. I hear it frequently and I usually say something when I hear it said to young children. It just sends the wrong message in my opinion.
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I have 2 daughters and one of their uncles tells them they look sexy. He means it as a compliment, another way of saying they look pretty (they are only 3 and 5 years old) but I cringe every time he says it.
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Ick! I’d ask him not to, in the nicest, politest possible way.
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I haven’t read the comments yet but something no one seems to have mentioned is character comments. Beauty and brains are one thing, but I try to focus equal attention on my daughter’s character! “you are kind! What lovely sharing! I liked the way you think about other people. What a generous thing to do! You are so thoughtful.” and so on. I think beauty on the inside makes for beauty on the outside and while I will foster a strong self esteem in relation to how she feels about her appearance and her intellect, my hope is she will be a person of character, known for her love, kindness and compassion toward others.
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I agree Valerie. I think character and attitude are the most important aspects to focus on. Honesty, kindness, compassion, generosity and tolerance should all be encouraged. And respect for others and their beliefs.
If we want to raise well rounded children, then there needs to be less focus on any one thing. Raising healthy well adjusted kids should be the goal; although it isn’t easy, especially with the exposure to media that kids have today. As parents, family and friends, we have a responsibility to help our children reach their full potential, to compliment and encourage them in all areas of their lives.
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I have to say Valerie i am very much the same! i tell my little man he is beautiful but usually its more about his character as he is so caring and just a lovely little man! I cant walk right now due to SPD with my pregnancy and the washing machine beeped cos it was done, and without a word he ran to the machine and emptied the washing into a basket…he is 4 and i told him he was just the most beautiful thoughtful and helpful lil man and i am so proud, thank you for helping Mummy so much! I think like my parents did when i was growing up, i associate ‘beautiful” with personality and character more than looks! and i think this is the most important way to praise! Great point to bring up though, cos its so true!
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I think this is a tough one. I’m understand the idea of moderation and complimenting looks as well as personality and intelligence, but I still worry about focusing on appearance. At all.
If we sometimes say to our girls, ‘you are pretty or beautiful,’ aren’t we reinforcing that looks are important? Even in some small way? Which I don’t believe they should be.
My cousin is my best friend and clearly the attractive one. I remember my attractive Aunty saying to us when we were about 14 and 16, “Oh, Lisa, you’re so beautiful. And, Hayley, you’re…so into books.” It took a long time for me to take that as a compliment. It was really one woman who had got by on her looks all her life pushing the importance of beauty onto young women. My cousin happens to be just as into books as I am, it’s just that no one ever notices.
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Hayley, looks *are* important and not just in a small way. To deny that is denying reality and I am not sure I see the point of that. We can walk around all day saying “looks are not important” but that goes against everything we know from psychology research.
Studies have consistently shown that people who are perceived to be good looking will get better jobs, will get promotions over their not so good looking colleagues, they are less like to be fined, they are less likely to be found guilty if they stand trial etc etc.
I am not suggesting looks should be the be all and all for anyone (although it seems to be working just fine for Kim Kardashian) but telling someone that looks don’t matter at all is the equivalent of telling them that Santa is real.
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I am so curious as to why the Healthy Is The New Skinny website cut ties with Hugo Schwyzer earlier this month. Their media release only alluded to something controversial in his past that they didn’t want to be connected to. I wonder….
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Hugo has a colourful background – he had addictions and was sexually “promiscuous”. As a result, he has more than his fair share of detractors.
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Oh thanks Nicki, I don’t know anything about him so I was curious as to what he could have done to turn them off him!
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He was one of the organisers of the original SlutWalk too.
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I think it is a little darker than this. Schwyzer has recently admitted to an attemptted murder/suicide with his female partner while under the influence of drugs (in 1998).
Many memebers of the feminist movement feel that he should not be held up as a voice for feminism, given his history of intimate violence (trying to murder his girlfriend), especially as there are many other voices out there that have trouble getting heard.
There is a bit of a summary, with links here…
http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/about-hugo-schwyzer/
Some of the discussions include whether someone can have a voice when they have “been redeemed”, what constitutes “redemption” and who gets to decide what “redemption” is. There is also discussion about “forgiveness” and whether victims of intimate abuse should be pressured to “forgive”.
It is meaty stuff, and well worth a read, if you have the time.
In general, the ongoing discussion is not saying that eveything that comes out of Schwyzer’s mouth is rubbish, because some of what he says may have merit, it is more about whether he should be given a platform to say it.
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Wow. Thanks for linking this – never would have come across it otherwise – incredible story and fascinating questions. My holiday reading is just about to go off on another tangent!
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I don’t think there’s a problem with saying someone looks pretty or handsome. You wear stuff to make yourself more attractive.
I do think there’s a problem when kids see and hear their Mums say “Oh I can’t go out, I have no make-up on!” or similar. Or who are never without makeup etc. Or worry constantly about their weight/size/hair colour/whatever.
I think Hugo is right that people seem to jump to extremes with this kind of thing though – I have been accused myself here of being “anti all things girly”, which I’m not.
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I agree about the make up thing as it’s something I really struggle with as a result of the (otherwise generally wonderful) women in my family who would not, and will not, so much as slip down to the corner store for bread without some basic make up on. They are attractive human beings without it, but feel they look “tired” without it, and I’ve sort of been accidentally conditioned to believe I need it. I’m working on my confidence but it’s not very easy. I can’t wait for the day when I am more low maintenance and confidently literally in my own skin!
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I disagree. I think a healthy dose of both is important. Of course young girls should be praised for their intellect and their talent should be encouraged but I think telling a girl that she is pretty is also important. It’s good for self confidence and body image when people tell you that you are beautiful. Everyone is beautiful, heaven help us if our parents and the people who love us most start to feel like they shouldn’t remind us of both our inner and outer beauty.
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I think you actually agree with the article?
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I find this article a little inconsistent. Almost like he’s trying to take an ‘each way bet’. He starts off saying his friend is wrong for saying they shouldn’t tell his daughter she looked beautiful, then later says “Certainly, many adults do lavish attention on girls’ looks. But that’s only a problem when they don’t compliment anything else”. But in his example they just praised his daughter for being beautiful before she ran off to play!
For me it’s all about moderation. The whole story would have made more sense to me had the friend gone on to ask what else Santa had brought, and then discussed some of the other presents – ie shown an actual interest in the child rather than just her outward appearance. THEN it’s OK to compliment her on her appearance.
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I don’t think he means you have to follow up every “you look pretty” sentence straight away with an “look how smart you are” sentence. Rather he doesn’t mind that a friends commented on how pretty she is as a one off because he knows that she is also complimented at other times for being smart etc.
So I don’t think it was inconsistent at all. Rather just stating that there shouldn’t be a problem with a friend or stranger commenting on whether his Daugher looks pretty because he knows she is also equally being complimented on other aspects as well.
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Ok I am well confused by this, I have never experienced this- in fact I have experienced the opposite. Never in my experience have I seen girls into clothes hair and make up criticized as shallow, in my school they were the popular girls- with the teachers as well and were all above average intelligence. On the other hand I hate make up, I don’t like the Amit feels on my face for me its a hassle and an unease say expense- I also don’t feel that there is anything so intrinsically wrong with my appearance that I need to fix or improve it every morning, I don’t get into hair- I like a functional haircut that requires no product, no hair dryer and no straightener and can be swept into a pony tail, I shop once a year for clothes and mostly choose function, I sure as goodness couldn’t tell you what’s in fashion and what’s not and I don’t wear heels. Ever.
Friends and family take it upon themselves to tell me ‘it doesn’t cost that much” or “it’s only 15-20 minutes every morning”, hairdressers who I’ve asked for something that requires no product have told me that’s impossible. I’m not taken any more seriously or looked at any more academically then my friends who wear make up (every single one of them) as a matter of fact Im regularly treated as though I’m not a proper girl or as though im missing some basic step of hygiene. It seems to me that nowadays if you don’t wear make up and all the rest your a slob or dirty- and he’s I thought hygiene comprised of clean body and clean clothes but what do I know? I feel like this is so much like the porn debate- hey porn is empowering and fun! – hey commenting on a little girls appearance is GOOD for her- after all we have to get her ready for being a little consumer. I won’t be adding any pretty’s into how I compliment my daughter. Cause she is brave, bold, clever, interesting, friendly, kind and just plain awesome. And I’m thinking that takes precedence. Pretty’s got nothing to do with it. ( stole that line from my daughters AWESOME pigtail pals t shirt, I highly reccomend their store!)
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Ok re reading My comment I just want to add there’s not neccesarily anything wrong with calling little girl beautiful but can we please relate that to who they are and not to things that may change. For example not on bought products which encourages the concept that we can buy praise, beauty, or attention. Maybe focus on special unique attributes like beautiful eyes or really lovely curls or something.
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Couldn’t have said it better myself Emily, great comment. I don’t know how he says beauty & fashion aren’t superficial interests, as that is exactly what they are.
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Yeah I don’t get that bit about them being valid historical interests or whatever it is.
I am exactly like you Emily, and have been told here time and again to lighten up because make-up’s fun, blah blah blah. For others, maybe, but not for me. I’m not interested, I don’t feel the need to wear it and I feel sorry for people who can’t leave the house without having their face on and hair full of product.
There are others of us out there, Emily!
PS My Pigtail Pals tshirt is one of my favourites!
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After your recommendation before Christmas kris, I am now a huge fan- all my nieces and nephews got pig tail pal T-shirts, and I love my ” pretty has got nothing to do with it” shirt- I got ones for my sisters and bestie too.
A fantastic message.
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I’m waiting for some more savings so I can order some more stuff from them!
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No need to feel sorry for us Kris! I feel so much better about myself when I am well groomed, it’s just who I am, and I find that it has a flow-on effect for me – when I feel good about myself I am much more inclined to eat well & exercise, as well as have the confidence to be the person I want to be. Of course this is just about me, and I don’t size up anyone else based on what makes me feel good. No need for any pity here!!!!
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Hi molly,
No snark intended in this, just genuine interest. when you say “well groomed”, what does that mean for you?
Would you put make up on to excercise? does your family/ friends see you without make up?
because for me Mon- friday I wear suits/ stocking/ heels, some makeup (natural- abit of tinted moisteriser, mascara, lipstick )
but on weekends, my face is washed, my teeth are brushed and my hair is clean.
I would never think to have makeup on to go to the shops, or walk the dog or meet friends for coffee etc.
I am just curious as to what it is about make up that makes you feel more confident? (if thats what you meant by ‘well groomed” ? )
thanks.
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Hi Zelicat
I would wear makeup everyday, even when we go camping! I don’t have great skin, lots of broken capillaries & redness. So for me, I just feel that I am happier with the version of me that has even skin & defined eyelashes! Same goes for my hair, I just like how I feel when I have done it. Of course my family (husband & two boys) see me without makeup & my husband continues after 12 years to want to get it on with me sans any makeup whatsoever! I like to like what I see in the mirror – for me – and that in turn makes me confident.
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Thanks, Molly- that seem perfectly logical to me.
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I hate the well groomed thing. I wash my hair and skin, I apply sunscreen, I brush my hair and teeth and I dress in clean clothes. I consider myself well groomed. I resent the implication that make up etc. constitutes good grooming. No it constitutes decoration after grooming. I would have considered grooming to consist of basic hygiene and being neat tidy and practical.
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Obviously people have different ideas of what well groomed constitutes for them. Of course my idea of well groomed is different to others. For me, I don’t feel well groomed until I have done my hair and makeup. That is about me – not about anyone else.
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Agree. It’s not like I go out with birds living in my hair and never shower or wash my clothes! I just don’t feel a need to do anything other than sunscreen and moisturiser if my skin’s dry. Hardly “ungroomed”. Just low maintenance!
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For me, fashion and playing with your looks are just that… playful and fun ways of expressing yourself. You don’t have to follow fashion, hair or makeup but you can if you want to.
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Beauty & fashion aren’t superficial interests – only if you don’t look at them superficially! They are tools for examining our history. I mean, when you think about different eras, what is one of the first things that pops into your head? The fashion! 20s flapper dresses, 60s shift dresses, 50s full skirts, poodle skirts, 70s hippie style. Fashion tells you a lot about the times, the people and their mindsets. Why was fashion in the 90s so grungey? Why were boyish shapes popular in the 20s? It is not just about what people threw on in the morning.
Beauty is exactly the same. Looking throughout art history you cannot escape talking about and analysing the ideals of beauty and how they have changed since renaissance art and even before that. It shows us the desires and ideals of a society and how these have evolved. These are great historical tools because they tell us so much about people, both individuals and societies, because they are so personal.
Many of my friends think that my interest in fashion and beauty is frivolous and I get tired of having to defend myself when I spend my money on beautiful clothing that wasn’t bought from a sweatshop-run chain store. For me fashion is about expression and also a celebration of great designers and wonderful talent. I would love it if my daughter shared my views.
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‘Cause she is brave, bold, clever, interesting, friendly, kind and just plain awesome’.
Now, that’s beautiful!
You just made my heart sing Emily x
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My grandfather was the only person who ever told me I was beautiful. he passed away when I was 11, and I never heard those words again until I started dating a guy when I was 21. Many a time I’ve heard family members comment on my weight, and varying perceptions of my intellect which have changed throughout time, but never have I been told I am pretty or beautiful by those that supposedly care about me. Now that I’m 32, I do have body image issues and am frequently skeptical when someone offers me a compliment. For a while in my 20s I could see the nice things other people saw in me but after a dodgy relationship a few years ago which wasn’t always so nice, I now have to work at self acceptance and self love and body image is a really big part of that. I feel sorry for other girls/women who have been in a similar situation. The things people say can have very detrimental impact on how we see ourselves. If we are told things enough we start to believe them whether they be positive or negative, and unfortunately some of us aren’t showered with praise and positivity and instead spend our lives looking for ways to prove to the people that have hurt us that we are better than we have been given credit for, that we’re not fat, stupid, or unlovable. Right now I’m in damage control mode after being told repeatedly all Christmas by my Nanna that I’m fat (which I’m not, but have believed this my whole life because I’ve been told this my whole life) and that I should stop wasting my time with uni and get a real job, not to mention my obvious failings for not being married and not having children at 32.
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I’m sorry Gypsy, that sounds horrible. God’s blessing be with you.
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I don’t believe ruling out certain words is the key to this. It’s about changing something much deeper than that, there is far too much emphasis on looks in our society but ruling out words like beautiful and pretty wont fix that. It almost gives the words more power! By hushing them, they become taboo and far more powerful and intriguing! We should not feel that we need to constantly comment on a girl’s looks, her clothes, her hair or her make up to make her secure in herself. My mother rarely mentioned my looks when I was growing up, it’s just not her thing, but I have grown up to be secure in the way I look. She did a great job at subtly building my self esteem, as a whole person. I believe it is about speaking quietly, we don’t have to give loud compliments to build confidence. If a girl is interested in make up, clothes and/or beauty, then she should not be belittled for it.
If anyone is interested in this topic, I read a really interesting post last night on this very topic. It has lots of good links and provides plenty of food for thought:
http://www.brightandprecious.com/2012/01/the-mirror-within/
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Agree wholeheartedly. I’ve never told my daughter or sons that they look beautiful but I tell them constantly that they are beautiful people, I love spending time with them and I am very proud of them and I feel happy when I am around them.
Sometimes I tell them a new look they are trying out suits them (a hairstyle, a lipstick, etc). They worry occasionally about how they look but it ‘s more to do with changing fashion trends and whether it suits them and their lifestyle. They don’t seem overly serious about it and are more interested in having fun with and caring about their friends and family.
Looking beautiful physically loses it’s attractiveness when the character of a person shows an ugliness that isn’t pleasant to be around.
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I tell Mum stuff looks really good on her or whatever, she just can’t take a compliment and then acts like I’m the biggest wanker in the world when I say “Thanks!” if someone compliments me on something.
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Bahahaha … your mum is game for trying to make you feel like a wanker Kris! That’s something you most definitely are not. Omg, your mum makes me laugh …
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Hahahahaha!
I got a maxi dress and some new shoes, and she said “They look really great together” I said “Yeah I thought they would”. Then I get “ooh tickets on yourself!”. She’s not great with compliments, she’s the first to admit it. My brother said the same thing when I said “It’s a good photp of me” about a pic. I don’t look great in most photos, so when I get one that I do look good in, I mention it! Strange, too, as he’s one of the vainest and looks conscious people I know.
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So tired of all the things we “should” or “shouldn’t” say to girls. I think we need to look at how our anxieties are transferring to them…they’re picking up on how we worry so much about whether what we say is appropriate or not. Everything needs to be thought through and ends up sounding rehearsed.
I tell my 12 year old daughter that she is pretty, beautiful or stunning when I feel like it. And I do the same with other girls. Just as I would tell them how talented, smart or creative they are. Stop thinking and start saying how you feel. Our girls are smart just as we are – we know the lines that can’t be crossed and telling a girl she is pretty isn’t one.
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I tell my little man how handsome he is every day, and my girl how beautiful she is every day… I also praise them every day on things they do well. Positive reinforcement gives kids positive self image for LIFE…
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I tell my daughter she is beautiful (amongst many other things).
But more importantly, I encourage her to TELL HERSELF she is beautiful.
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My Dad has spent nearly 40 years trying to help my Mum overcome her self image issues. Mum is gorgeous. As a teenager she could easily have been a top model, seriously she was spectacular. Men used to slow their cars down to look at her. But her mother worried that if she ever praised her, my Mum would get a big head. So she did the opposite and my gorgeous mother is to this day reasonably convinced that she is ordinary looking. She will now look back on old photos and agree she was attractive but she can’t see that in herself now – while we all can.
Mum did get what had happened though and so my sister and I grew up being told we were beautiful and pretty etc, etc. I don’t think either of us are the beauty Mum was but we are reasonably attractive. That said I don’t think about it unless I’m commenting on an article like this. What Mum and Dad did was give us the confidence to be ourselves, not hide away like Mum did.
Tell girls (and boys for that matter) they are pretty. But also tell them they are smart (my grandmother also convinced Mum she wasn’t clever – not the best parent). Like everything in life it is about balance.
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On the other side of the coin, how often to you see people praising little girls for how they look while the boys stand there all but ignorred. While we should not focus too much on little girls looks (I agree with the sentiment, however at times, when effort has gone in to getting prepared for a party etc it is surely ok and appropriate), we should also remember that little boys like the odd compliment too, especially when they too feel they are all dressed up for the party.
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I don’t see how telling the girls he talks about that their beautiful is helpful. What they want is for their interests to be acknowledged and respected. So tell them they have a knack for putting together outfits, a great eye. Teach them how to sew so they can make their own creations.
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I think the idea of focusing on qualities other than appearance when talking to little girls is a good one to be aware of… but to never tell them they’re pretty is just ridiculous. It’s a rare being – female, male, young, old – who doesn’t enjoy being told they’re attractive.
As a woman, I want people (but particularly my partner) to think I’m smart, funny, charismatic and kind… but I also want them to think I’m pretty. It’s another cog in the wheel of who I am. Not the most important – but not totally irrelevant either.
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PS. One of the most significant moments in Oprah’s life was the first time she was told she was pretty as a little girl (by a woman in her 20s – the wife of a local politician, I believe, named Tish Hooker). She tears up when she talks about it because she was always told she was smart – but never pretty. It made a huge difference in her life – and I think she turned out rather well!
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I think we have to accept that appearances are important in society. While it’s okay to not be pretty, you need to be well groomed. Your appearance – whether it be too much cleavage at work or not wearing make-up or wearing shorts or wearing a ball gown to do gardening – will affect what others think of you.
Of course, if we could change that attitude then maybe we could take all emphasis away from talking about what girls (and boys) look like.
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Thanks for this article. I grew up with parents who also believed that it was more important to focus on books and study. So I don’t remember ever being called pretty or receiving any compliment on the way that I look. I think this was a contributing factor to my growing up into teenage years not believing I was pretty or good looking in any way. Looking back, I can see that I was quite an attractive kid, not necessarily typically ‘pretty’ but I was ok. By the time I was in my teens I had no idea about fashion, makeup, etc and needed to learn from my friends (my mother had no idea). It was not ingrained in me to care about my looks, so I didn’t. And as any teenager will tell you, there’s a few horrid years in store for kids who are clueless about trends and fashion. I would suggest that this Lisa Bloom has no idea what it is like for the little girls who are brought up in the way she is advising. I’ve now got a little girl of my own and I’m going to be a little more realistic with her. Strike a balance Ms Bloom, it’s not rocket science.
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Love this! I am a capable, intelligent, beautiful woman who loves art, history, literature, NRL, fashion, beauty and a myriad of other things. We don’t have to be one or the other. We can be a bit of everything!
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I agree, if we don’t tell our girls they’re pretty ever, let’s not ever tell them anything nice at all. Heaven forbid we tell them they are clever, we wouldn’t want to give them a complex and make them think that being clever is important would we? Parents who have ideas about not telling girls they are pretty have mental issues themselves I think. Just lavish your children with love and praise them for all of their good qualities, whatever they are. Build up their self esteem and confidence – it’s sometimes an ugly harsh world out there. Paying compliments is not the problem in this world, it’s much more complex than that.
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Lucinda I don’t think it’s helpful to accuse people of having “mental issues” because they are taking a certain approach to raising their children.
Most people who object to the focus on calling girls pretty (those who have really thought the issue through, in any case) don’t actually object to the use of the word, just the constant focus on it. My little girls (I have 2, aged 2 and 4) who are IMHO absolutely stunning kids, hear it ALL THE TIME. From me, from family, friends, random strangers. It is starting to worry me that while in the short term it will build their confidence, that the confidence will be contingent on every single person they encounter telling them how pretty they are. What about when they go through those awkward stages where they’re not so pretty? What if they encounter people who are jealous or just don’t think they’re pretty? What if they stop hearing it? Yes I’ll always tell them they are beautiful, but if their self worth is completely defined by *everyone* telling them they’re pretty, the withdrawal of this praise by others may shatter their confidence.
What if their self worth is intrinsic? What if they believe they are good enough just how they are? What if they believe they are beautiful on the inside? What if the most important thing for them in valuing themselves is not that they are pretty or clever or anything else that is judged by others, but that they are putting 100% of themselves into being the best person they can be?
That’s the child I want to raise. I’m not doing a perfect job of it, by any means, but I don’t think I have mental issues!
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Dear oh dear, the old cotton wool society strikes again!! I tell my girls all the time how beautiful they are and how very smart and clever they are in everything they do. They’re aware of beauty comes within and they’ll take that through to their teenage years and beyond.
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I read this article on Jezebel the other week and loved it, thought it was a great approach.
I do however find it funny that the original article about the book and not telling girls they are pretty was also published here a while ago singing it’s praises.
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Hooray for common sense!
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Oh yay! A voice of reason.
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I have two sons and a daughter. I tell each of them, every single day how beautiful they are, because they are. My sons don’t care too much for my compliments, unless I tell them they are great at getting dirty or something along those lines! My daughter however, at two years and four months, loves the attention! She loves nothing more then picking out a pretty dress to wear, accessorised by pretty shoes and a necklace of her choice. She receives her compliments very well and acknowledges that we are indeed correct in our views of her beauty. My children will grow up to be intelligent, modest, wonderful people and myself telling them that they are beautiful will give them the confidence that they will require in this world. I was told I was beautiful as a child, but I did not grow up conceited or obsessed with beauty. I am now an overweight, very plain looking adult but I honestly don’t care!
Brilliant article, thank you.