Do You Like This Story?

religion 380x382 The religious lucky dipOn a recent (fully (extended)) family holiday, the little ducklings met a new cousin (aged 5) who greeted them with a catchy little song he seemed to have composed just for them. It went something like this: “Sai Baba, Sai Baba, Saieeeeee Babababa Ba Ba.”

Sai Baba is perhaps modern India’s second best known holyman (after the Beatles made the Maharishi super cool in the sixties). He sits on a spectrum of belief, somewhere between avatar and charlatan.

My father fervently (in fact religiously) believes that Sai Baba is The Avatar, and I’m not talking about the blockbuster. This is a belief he tried to indoctrinate us (my brother and I) with as children, and when we moved in with my parents last year, he shared this belief with my own children.

I don’t know if Sai Baba is The Avatar (or a charlatan for that matter). But when my little nephew tried to taunt my children in front of their other cousins, making them laugh with his song, it made me very upset. No one likes to see their children laughed at or feeling confused, especially when they are meeting a new social group for the first time and establishing new relationships. We’ve been doing so much of that lately, since we moved to Sydney 2 months ago, and it is exhausting.

I think for me, it was also that the children are beginning to establish their relationship with God and religion, and the shaping of that relationship is as sensitive to the teasing of a young cousin as it is to the teachings of my father.

In the year that we lived in Canberra with my parents, my Appa did his best to crash course the children in Hinduism, the unifying message of world religions and classic science fiction movies. Heavy going?  Sometimes, and sometimes just a glimpse into how our children “see” God.

Secundo recently remarked that there were not enough photos of him together with Mummy and Daddy. Actually, there are not enough photos of him or any of the others after Prima, but that’s what happens when you are second, third and fourth. His point was that he wanted to be in photos with us.  Prima comforted him with, “Well [Secundo], in all of these photos of me and Mummy, you are with God, and God is in Mummy’s heart, so actually you were with Mummy all along.”

Secundo and I had to agree with this infallible theo-logic and I was amazed that Prima, aged only 7, had applied the Advaita principle of oneness with God, that it takes most Hindus a lifetime to understand (I still don’t get it).

Of course, the Devil can quote scripture for his own ends. The next time I tried to scold Prima for some domestic infringement, she reminded me that God was within her, she was God and I shouldn’t scold God as God wouldn’t like that.

What in God’s name can you say to that? I should have said God wouldn’t whinge incessantly if He wasn’t allowed to watch High School Musical on a school night.  I only thought of that one afterwards.

Secundo’s religious fascination is with death and rebirth. He announces or asks in strange places (eg. Chatswood Westfield) and at strange times (eg. first thing in the morning (ie. 5:30am)):

“When the world ends, it will be born again won’t it?; When we die our spirit will still live like Obi Wan Kenobi won’t it? Hindus get cremated like Jedis don’t they?”

For a 5 year old, he seems uncannily comfortable with the Hindu concept of Maya, the temporal nature of our bodies and our world, and the permanent nature of the (Supreme) soul (as set out in Chapter 7 of the Bhagavad Gita and Episode IV of Star Wars).

And then there is Terecero, aged 2, who sneaks into my father’s daily personal yoga routine and copies him. One old duck in a sagging sarong and one baby duck in a sagging nappy, each saluting the Sun. We took the children to the temple one last time before we left Canberra, where Tercero wowed the old grannies by showing them his yoga: the Mountain pose, the Cobra pose, Downward Facing Dog, and then his personal composition which involves posing on all fours and lifting one leg into the air – we like to call this one Urinating Dog. We were all so proud.

I am not sure what Newborn’s religious predilections will be, he’s barely one. However, as he has spent a lot of time with me during a very stressful year of transition, I suspect his first words will be religious ones. For example: “What in God’s name is going on? Jesus bloody Christ, Mary Mother of God, Sweet Jesus, For the love of God, God damnit….” Newborn will be able to swear religiously and prolifically – to my Christian friends, I am sorry I swear in Christian but Hindus can’t swear to save their lives (“Holy Cow”? – come on people.)

Since living with my father, I can see the children’s religious views developing. When we left London, one of their favourite games was to act out the Nativity.  Yes, the Nativity. Now, they act out a hybrid version of the Nativity and that great Hindu epic, the Ramayana. In this tale, instead of going directly to the ancient kingdom of Lanka to rescue the Princess Sita (Prima), the monkey warrior Hanuman (Secundo) flies from India to John Lewis, London where he picks up a Nintendo DS, which he then takes to Bethlehem to give to the Baby Jesus (convincingly portrayed by Tercero). Baby Jesus receives his gift with the following words, “I am sick, I want Catapol.” Catapol is not the Sri Lankan version of frankincense or myrrh. It is the (mispronounced) English brand of children’s panadol (Calpol) that my hypochondriac little son of God is addicted to.

The four little ducklings are young. They are starting their physical journey through the world and a spiritual journey that they may embrace or ignore. Until they make their choices and sense what they know, feel or believe about God, I don’t want them thinking that the contemplation of God, the search for God, is uncool.  That is why I especially didn’t like them being teased by my nephew that day.

As I said, I don’t know or care if Sai Baba is the Avatar (or a charlatan), but I like the biriyani of messages and values he has stir-fried together from the religions of the world. His basic teachings are often set out in catchy little phrases that could be converted into fridge magnets. Let me paraphrase:

(a)    God is one but different people call him by different names and take different paths to reach him (Him, Her, It etc);

(b)   the best way to serve God is to serve mankind; and

(c)    be nice to every one because if you don’t karma will bite you on the arse.

So, whilst our children are choosing their spiritual path (or not), if Sai Baba, my Appa, Obi Wan or husband and I can get the above through to the four little ducklings, then that really would be cool.

Shankari Chandran is a recent returner after ten years in London. Formerly a social justice lawyer Shankari chronicles the day-to-day of her family’s return in her blog.

How did you establish your religion as a child? If you have children, what will you be teaching them?

View more posts on:

Comments

Comment Guidelines : Imagine you’re at a dinner party. Different opinions are welcome but keep it respectful or the host will show you the door. We have zero tolerance for any abuse of our writers, our editorial team or other commenters. So if you’re rude, mean-spirited, snarky, aggressive, defamatory or bitchy, your comment will be deleted (so will any replies to the original comment – so don’t bother arguing with rude people, instead just hit the ‘alert moderator’ button).
And if you’re offensive, you’ll be blacklisted and all your comments will go directly to spam. Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That’s how we’re going to be – cool. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation…

Use your profile to comment: Or, comment as a guest:
(Max file size is 150kb & jpeg's only - if you need help resizing go here »)

99 Comments so far

  1. Seattle Doppelgänger

    As always, love your post.
    When I was a child, I was taught that it was not polite to talk about religion – which is a bit silly really. But then I was also taught everyone has the right to their own opinion /beliefs.
    I hope we are teaching our children to listen & respect others – hopefully everything else falls into place.
    Keep posting Shanks!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  2. Catherine

    Shank I dont know if you remember my posts on some of your previous blog entries but I’m the one living your parallel existence in London with the butchers on England’s Lane. At the school that I work at (you know… that one Prima might have gone to) we have Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Christian of all persuasions and goodness knows what else. Every morning at assembly we all stand to say The Lord’s Prayer and sing a rousing hymn. I had forgotten about religion for quite a while and now find myself being drawn back into it through this simple song and prayer. There is something deeply moving and magical about all the different children’s voices raised together like that. Even if it is boring old C of E.

    Thank you for your fantastic posts and please keep them coming!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  3. sarah burnett

    love, it!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  4. Tammy

    Shanks–I love your posts. They are always funny, insightful, thought-provoking and inspirational. I wish I could be half as wise as you are. I am so thankful you and your family are in my life.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  5. Anon

    Love your article. Guiding children on religion can be challenging. Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job guiding yours.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  6. Tara

    Brilliant and Funny and Witty as usual!
    I especially loved the bit about your kids acting out the Nativity scene. Hilarious!
    It reminds me of the time my daughter wrote a story of “Cinderella” where she gets an iPad 2 at the end :)

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  7. Reema

    Love the way you write…..

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  8. florencia

    Funny and deep at the same time!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  9. Jodhpurs

    May the force be with you young Jedi

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  10. Terry

    love, love, love this one!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  11. Harini

    Great read Shankari. Keep it coming!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  12. Naren

    Thanks Shankari for the article. It’s always a hoot reading of your brood’s adventures. In the recent census, i almost put ‘Jedi’ down as my religion!!!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  13. Jruth

    Love it – Christmas can be a difficult time for religious “differences” in families, but you certainly made me laugh!!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  14. shh_daisy

    “Be nice to every one because if you don’t karma will bite you on the arse” – this is definitely my new mantra! Thanks for another great article Shankari!

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  15. Pingback: Mamamia! (Part 7) | Duck Formation's Blog

  16. claire23

    I was brought up with no religion. Then at 15 my friend invited me to youth group, and I started going to church from then on. My parents don’t mind. They don’t like coming to church, but do on Christmas to support me and are happy to say grace when they come for dinner. Parents didn’t have an impact when it came to me.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  17. oliveblanche

    I love love love your writing Shankari! I’m always excited when I see you pop up on here! What I would have wanted to know is where on earth your nephew got that song from? If he’s not Hindu then how would he even know the name. That seems odd. Anyway, I consider myself a Catholic but to me it’s more of a family thing. My Mum is Anglican. But My Dad really wanted us to be Catholic and promised to take us all to church…..yep never happened….we were never even confirmed. But it’s more like I feel a connection because I come from a long line of Catholics if that makes sense. a I’m sure there are lots of people who I’m sure would say I’m not Catholic etc I don’t believe or practice Catholicism but I’m not much into organized religion. Maybe because I don’t know enough. But I guess I would like one to
    fit MY beliefs of love and acceptance and equality (especially for women
    and gay people). I firmly believe that there is one God and is the same god for all religions. I don’t think he/she cares which one you choose. As long as you live a good life and try and be a good person. I love different religions and cultural practices and if I have kids hope it’s with someone who is very open to exploring it. My Mum as I have mentioned is terminal with pancreatic cancer. So she has so so many people praying for her. Lots of different religions too. It’s means so much to her and it lifts her spirits and she feels that’s why she is still here. The doctors are amazed that she is still here and in so little pain. It means a lot to me that so many people care. It also shows me it doesn’t matter what religion you are because if you are all praying or chanting or meditating on one person then that is just beautiful. It’s about love and wanting to help in anyway you can. And also for me I feel I need to believe in Heaven because I wouldn’t cope with the thought of never seeing Mum again. So I do and I pray I am not wrong ;)

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • duckformation

      Hi Oliveblanche, I am really sorry to hear about your mum. I believe in the power of prayer. I know it’s not cool to say it, but I do believe in it. It comforts me and I am comforted when I know people are praying for others. Thank you for your comment, I loved it. I think you nailed it with “love, acceptance and equality”. It amazes me sometimes when I think about the similarities of religions (we spend way too long thinking about and using the differences against each other) – I think about people spread across countries, generations and languages, all coming up with the same, unifying values to live by (with or without a religious framework to couch it in). There must be something in that. In answer to your question, this particular cousin was Hindu and I think he was just repeating the (not funny) “humour” of others who don’t like Sai Baba. It’s a debate better had between adults rather than children (or not had at all – I am all for agreeing to disagree!). Any way, thank you again and my prayers to your mother. xxx S

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • oliveblanche

        Thank you for your prayers. That means so much to me and to my Mum :)  
        You know I’ve always believed the existence of God is shown in so many different ways but one is definitely the similarities in religions and the principles and also that this belief is spread across countries generations and languages, like you said. It’s like we are ingrained to believe in a higher power and to believe in certain principles. Ah imagine how wonderful the world would be if ppl DID focus of the similarities and did just agree to disagree with differences! Oh and if we could admit to praying without being seen as uncool ;) lol (or in my case being called a crazy fundamentalist christian for saying God bless you to a friend!) I don’t think the person who said it understands the word fundamental! Lol         

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
  18. Shaezy

    Recent conversation with my 4yo son:

    Him: Mummy, when I go to big school, my teacher will be a priest.
    Me: (raising eyebrows) Really? Who told you that?
    Him: Jimmy at school (daycare).
    Me: Honey, your teacher won’t be a priest. Do you know what a priest is?
    Him: Yeah, he’s a guy that glows when there is danger coming.
    Me: (choking with laughter on my drink) No, honey that’s not what a priest is.
    Him: Well what is it?
    Me: A priest is a guy who works in the church.
    Him: What’s a church?
    Me: A church is where some people go to celebrate when they believe in God.
    Him: What’s god?
    Me: Err…here, have some ice cream! Do you want sprinkles? Gee isn’t the sunset lovely tonight? What book would you like to read before bed??!

    Soooooo not ready to go down that conversation path yet.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  19. Ian

    Well, the really important thing here is that Sai Baba left his body on 24 April 2011. So it’s no longer a matter of what he “is”.

    FWIW, there is only one God, and it doesn’t matter what you call Her, as long as you call.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • duckformation

      Thank you Ian, I wrote this one a while back. It was interesting to see people’s reactions to the passing of Sai Baba. Particularly older people who had been his devotees for decades and understandably felt a strong attachment to his physical form, despite Sai Baba’s own teachings on that. My father recently visited his memorial place and it looks beautiful and peaceful, and hopefully Sai Baba’s immense charitable projects will continue and help local communities for many more years.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
  20. Rebecca

    I think letting a child ‘choose’ is a waste of time. Either you’re told there’s a God your whole life and you believe it, or you’re not and you don’t. Which is totally fine, I was raised without any religion and so were most people I know, but if we wanted it now it would be barred to us. You can’t just get it later, it would be like trying to convince yourself the sky is red when it’s obviously blue.
    I think there are good reasons for raising a child in a religious tradition, like if you like the values or if believing in God really helps you. But there are also so many negative effects of religious dogma – whether misinterpreted or mainstream – that it must be a very difficult decision.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • katehunter

      I agree. If everyone was allowed to choose to be religious or not, there would be pretty much none. Cue John Lennon.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
    • melissasavage

      Yup, that’s what I’m hoping.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
    • clarinette

      I don’t agree! (sounds confrontational :s) My son decided at 9 that he believed in god, because he heard about it at school….My little sister went through a phase around 13 when she wanted to convert and be baptized and everything…. My parents have no religion at all, neither do I, and somehow those kids picked religion up from somewhere. It does happen!

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • katehunter

        But does it last? Is your sister still a practicing Christian? My daughter chose to be Dorothy from The Wizard Of Oz for most of the year she was 4 because she liked the songs. I think most of us are ‘culturally’ or ‘tribally’ religious. It’s more about belonging to a community than actual faith in God – I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
      • clarinette

        It didn’t last for my sister, but my son has been a non practicing, bible reading (and bible under pillow sleeping :S ) christian (or God believer of some sort) for almost a year and a half now….he’s tolerating my absence of faith better now, but his beliefs don’t seem to be fading much. I gave him the bible an evangelic friend of mine gave me at 16…and I don’t try to convince him , but when we discuss faith, he knows I’ll be a challenging conversational partner. If he loses a debate he just smiles in a “meh, she doesn’t know any better” way….It might not last but only time will tell :)

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
        • Anonymous

          I feel like a culturally lapsed Hindu (ie. I don’t practise the cultural traditions of Hinduism as much as we used to when we were children). But I feel more spiritually Hindu now as an adult than when I was a child – I think that is because as an adult I have identified with some of its values and teachings and consciously chosen to live by them (as well as unconsciously living by them too – my conditions responses perhaps). May be I just think about these things more as I rock a baby to sleep at 2am. I learnt the values through Hindu parents and Hindu teachings but I think of the religion (and my parents) as more of a vehicle for ideas that are more common to us all (I like how Oliveblanche above said it: love, acceptance, equality). I could have learnt these with or without the religious framework- either way, I’m just glad I learnt them and hopefully I will teach my children the same. I think I also feel a sense of being born into a religion, culture and family (which is in no way better or more enlightened than any other) – but it is the one I was born into, and therefore the one my children were born into, and it is therefore a part of our heritage, as is our migrant experience, as are the choices previous generations in my family made so that future generations could have a better life. So I feel like the children and I have an opportunity to explore the ideas, values and history of this heritage and use it in the creation of our future, if we want to. I’ve started to ramble so I will stop, but I wanted to say thank you for your comments. I’m going to put on some Lennon for the children tonight.

          GD Star Rating
          loading...
    • elli

      I disagree – children will follow what they’re brought up with up to a point; when they start to think for themselves anything can happen.

      My parents are lapsed Anglicans; I’ve been agnostic all my life, even before I knew the word for it, whereas my sister went through an actively Christian phase in High School for several years but now is a non-churchgoing more-or-less believer.

      And as for finding religion later in life, that happens all the time (and is what many religions hope for).

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
    • sharons

      I politely disagree. My father is a practising Hindu. My mother is a practising Christian (Methodist). They are also two different races. At school I attended scripture and on Sundays I went to church. My grandmother taught me about Hinduism and in my teenage years I learned about the above mentioned ramayan through a religious group.

      My parents exposed me to both religions from an early age. I was free to follow whichever path I wanted. I ultimately committed to Hinduism. However, my family celebrates Christmas and Easter. I occasionally still go to church with my cousins from my mums side. My mum comes to the temple with my dad and I, my elder sister is non religious and my parents respect that.

      Growing up with two different religions didn’t confuse me. It made me accepting of all religions. I can see the beauty in all faiths and understand why people follow the paths that they do.

      I feel so fortunate to live in a household where two people of two different races and religions have lived happily for 35 years.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • duckformation

        I have many nieces and nephews who will grow up being able to embrace two religions. That seems doubly lucky to me.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
    • Mabol

      I was a young atheist who grew to be an agnostic and am now after studying much philosophy, physics and logic – very open to belief. I’ve met very few atheists that have considered these issues at a very deep level and are able to substantiate the logic/thought they claim their beliefs are based on – so I don’t think your sky is blue/red is an accurate analogy.

      However I’ve certainly met a lot of people in my friendship groups who think this way and are also quite dismissive of and sometimes ridicule people who don’t think the same way they do. It’s not just children who do this – and I wonder if this has a strong effect on people questioning for themselves rather than towing the line of their peer groups.

      Most children who are exposed to a liberal background where they are encouraged to be critical and think for themselves will have a healthy relationship with spirituality/religion if they choose that path and will be unlikely to perpetuate negative effects of religious dogma.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • duckformation

        Thank you Mabol, that is what I really hope we give our children too.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
    • Anon for this

      I also disagree – I was raised as a Buddhist. I really didn’t like all the rituals, chanting, e.t.c. and I couldn’t believe in it. When I was 14 I converted to Baha’i (google it :) ). On the other hand, my little brother is still a devout Buddhist. I do see what you’re saying, though, it’s probably true most of the time – I’m the only non Buddhist in my family. I can still see the looks on my aunties’ faces when I casually told them that I wasn’t offering a statue flowers because I’m not a Buddhist.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
  21. Lulu

    The first wedding I attended was my uncle’s, when I was 3. During the mass, I pointed at the priest & whispered (loudly) to my brother, “IS THAT GOD??” I suspect the most likely explanation for this is my grandmother. Her Catholicism was important to her but well-behaved children were even more so, and it wouldn’t surprise me if she’d warned us beforehand with “You must behave yourselves – this is a house of God”.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • duckformation

      Hilarious! At temple recently our 3 year old asked me why the (male) priest (who was wearing nothing but a sarong and holy ash) had boobs. Hmm….

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
  22. elli

    Hanuman taking a Nintendo to the baby Jesus – LOL! Love it!

    My parents ticked Anglican on the census form but neither were church-going. In practice, Mum is generically spiritual/Christian-ish and Dad was completely atheist. I was baptised and sent to Sunday School, I suppose because that’s what one did in the early 1970s, until one day I asked “Why do I have to go to school on Sunday when you don’t go to work on Sunday?” (I don’t remember this, it’s family legend, so I’m guessing I was 6 or 7 at the time). They couldn’t argue with that so I never went back.

    I’ve been agnostic since I first came across the word in the dictionary at the library in my early teens. It was a moment of recognition, “Wow there’s a word for what I am!” My view is that people are welcome to believe anything they want as long as they don’t bother other people with it, but it’s impossible to prove religious beliefs/disbeliefs either way (that includes you, Philip Adams and Christopher Hitchens) as noone has been proved to come back from the dead to give a report. Who knows – your son could be right.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  23. Phillybaby

    Oops, just saw your response princess.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  24. Askyourfather

    My mum was raised a Catholic and my dad is an agnostic, so she could marry him in the church they had to agree that all children would be raised Catholic.

    Thankfully me being raised catholic only entailed me being dunked, having communion and being confirmed. I do not consider myself a Catholic, as stated on the Census I have no religion. My husband is religious but in no way OTT, he does not go to church or fast or the like. Our kids have been baptised but that was for him (and maybe my mum) They attend a religious pre-school(based on its reputation) and have come home with some interesting questions which I flick pass to their father… If they want to go to Church they can go.
    They have Catholic, Agnostic, Uniting and Greek Orthodox Godparents and have Hindi and Muslim friends so the are being exposed to alot of different beliefs with me in the background telling them it is like finding a football team to support, have a look at them all, listen to what people say, see how it feels and if thats what you like then go for it, but make the decision for yourself, not for me or for your dad for you. And you don’t have to do it right now you have the rest of your life to decide…or not…..

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  25. Lestump

    You seem to have missed the hidden point in your question. Children do not establish their religion. It is established for them by adults.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  26. Sezzard

    Religion is something I am struggling with at this point in my life. I was brought up as Anglican and went to Sunday school when I was younger. It stopped when we moved from Sydney to qld when I was about 8 though. My husband was brought up as a strict seventh day Adventist, however he an his family no longer “practice” it. I’m not certain what I believe, other than everything happens for a reason. I think k have more spiritual beliefs as opposed to religious beliefs though. At 26 years old and with my first child on the way I want to instil some form of religion or belief in our children, but the question is what religion or what belief? My husband now thinks religion is a crock but if we get our children christened or send them to a denominational school, he wants it to be seventh day Adventist and truth be told, I would prefer it be Anglican. It sounds silly since we are both non-religious now, but we just can’t agree on which way to go when it comes to our kids and family as a whole. Any suggestions on this would be appreciated! 

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • M

      Your story doesn’t sound that different to my own, husband and I were raised in a strict religion, and in our mid twenties with two young children, we decided organised religion was not for us and left, much to our family’s disgust. We teach our children to respect themselves and others, to be accepting of other peoples choices, to look after their bodies through healthy eating and exercise and to live and enjoy life. We don’t need a religion to teach them values and I believe they are a lot more grounded than either my husband and I were at their age being raised in a strict religion. That being said, we send them to an SDA school. Can’t speak highly enough of their education system and it’s been the perfect fit for our kids where they have all blossomed. Can’t speak for the Anglican school system, but just thought you might be interested in a non religious persons point of view. Go visit both and you’ll know where they will fit best.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • Sezzard

        Thank you! I think that is what we are going to have to do. In all honesty I think I’m against SDA because I dont know enough about it and what I do know isn’t what I personally believe. I will take your advice and keep an open mind! Thank you!!!

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
  27. feistyangel

    My Dad was baptised Anglican, I think Mum was Unting but my sister and I were never baptised or brought up with any religion, we were free to choose our own and we chose none.
    My husband was brought up Catholic and has never gone to church. His Mum wants us to have our children (when they come) christened in a Catholic church, but her reasoning for this is so they are eligible for all schools in our area. I have no problem with this but she has been told that if there is anything church related (not including the ceremony) that she will be the one to do them.
    Even though I am agnostic I work for an Anglican Diocese and had one of the Bishops’ conduct my wedding service. Although that had more to do with the fact that he is like a grandfatehr to me then for anything else.
    My children will be able to decide what they believe in and if they decide they want to go to church I will support that choice.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  28. Carey Arber

    Loved your funny article, Shankari! I was six years old, and it was a normal Sunday, playing in the driveway waiting for the folks to wake up. The little girl next door was all dressed up in pretty, pink frills, and through the gate told me they were going to Sunday School. I told her there’s no school on Sundays, because I was a bit older than her and had already started school. She was unimpressed and sure enough off they went; she and her 3 siblings. Worried, I woke my young parents to ask them if they knew there was school on Sundays! Soon I joined the neighbours and went to their Methodist Sunday School. I only had to wake my parents for my 5 cent coin for collection. I just loved the Bible stories about healing, and a long story short, it’s now my life work… I’m a Christian Science practitioner in the healing practice.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  29. Haven Maven

    Thanks Shankari, I always love your writing! Appreciate the giggle.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • penny

      Yes, I love your writing too Shankari!

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • vegas

        Me three!

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
        • duckformation

          Thank you very much, it really means a lot to me. I just got back from a holiday with cousins (religion only came up once but we agreed to disagree in the interests of eating more ice cream) – coming back to see this piece published and people responding to it has been a great cure for my post-holiday blues!

          GD Star Rating
          loading...
  30. JosieY

    I wasn’t really exposed to any religion as a child. We were nominal (Christmas) Christians. That was fine. I always knew God was in my life and sharing in everything I did/felt. I am now training to be an Anglican priest and my kids are being brought up to be Anglicans. We go to Church and they are full of questions about God, but they have a pretty good idea of the main points. God loves us, God is in everyone so we need to love everyone, some silly people think that God is male but God is male and female and neither. We have talked about heaven (where Poppa is) but not hell… I don’t ‘believe’ in either but heaven is a good thing for a 5 year old – we can refine it later. The two great commandments are ‘love God with all your heart, with all your body, with all your mind and all your soul’ and ‘love your neighbour as yourself’. If that is all my kids learn about Christianity I’ll be happy.

    BTW, we have an assortment of (very carefully chosen) Christian kids books as well as Jewish, Polynesian, Hindi and other stories.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  31. Nico

    The phrase ‘swear in Christian’ has just made my day/week/possibly month.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • Tania

      I loved that bit too!

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
  32. N

    Shankari I love reading your posts on here, they always make me laugh (holy cow!)

    I especially loved the last bit on this one (the 3 principles)!

    I was born into a Muslim family, well my parents were both raised as muslims but neither of them practiced, my mum occasionally used to pray and fast but my dad didn’t do any of that. I remember vaguely one time asking my mum what religion we were and she said muslim but that was it. We grew up celebrating Christmas and Easter (my dad’s sisters are both married to catholics) but didn’t celebrate any of the Islamic holidays like Eid, only Persian new year and that’s more cultural than religious.

    I am now married to a catholic (non-practicing), his parents are catholic and they don’t practice either, but when we got married we had an Iranian marriage ceremony which involves some Islamic rituals AND we had a ceremony in a church as well. But neither of us are religious at all and don’t have a label on what we would raise our future kids as.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • Anonymous

      Thank you very much N!I I think we are all making our own labels as we go a long. It’s emancipating in a way not have the label to start with – just a clean slate to pick and choose the values, traditions and ideas that we want. My Husband is that kind of non-Hindu Hindu and it really challenges me not to just accept the label I was born with but to define for myself what/who I want to be. Thank you again for reading my posts, xx S

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
  33. kattate

    I think this point is a really important one which is so often missed when it comes to religious debate:
    God is one but different people call him by different names and take different paths to reach him (Him, Her, It etc);
    I believe in God. And I believe my God is the same as the Hindu God and the Muslim God and the Buddhist ‘god’. It’s just a difference in interpretations. I feel it’s so important to encourage our children to explore their beliefs and find their own spirituality. Religious tolerance (the same as tolerance for another’s sexuality, race and individuality) starts in the home. If our children are taught to respect the opinions and beliefs of others, and to love others regardless of those differences, they will grow up to spread their tolerance. And hopefully then the world will enjoy more peace.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • Of course some of us don’t even require a god to feel whole…

      :)

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • Peta

        But even those who don’t require a god to feel whole and don’t believe in any god can still practice the tolerance for the opinions and beliefs of others that Kattate speaks of. Likewise, those who do believe should practice tolerance for your right not to.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
        • Anonymous

          I agree: I think the most important things we should take from religion are tolerance,acceptance, respect. I am going to throw love in too but at the very least some tolerance. And it goes both ways: if you believe or don’t and no matter what you believe, some respect for other’s right to believe (or not believe) is a good starting point.

          GD Star Rating
          loading...
  34. detachableprincess

    I may have offended my MIL the other day – but frankly I don’t care.

    Whenever we go to their house for a meal, they say Grace beforehand. I don’t mind, I just sit quietly without joining. But last time we were there, MIL got started and then said “OK, LittleDude, now you put your hands together….” I said (growled, actually) “NO”.

    I was raised with no religion, but a strong sense of morals and ethics, and am doing the same for my children. From what I can see, I have the framework to live a good life – but without the guilt that religion can bring.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • Good for you Princess!

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
    • MissT

      Do you mean she wanted him to pray, or she wanted him to put his hands together while she prayed?

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • detachableprincess

        He was sitting quietly with me, waiting to eat. As far as I’m concerned, that’s enough. She wanted to start him on a path to praying with her, and that’s just not going to happen.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
        • Kate

          Not criticising but genuinely curious of what your response would be should he choose to join in sometime?

          GD Star Rating
          loading...
          • detachableprincess

            I would be baffled, but supportive. If he makes his OWN choice to follow any religion, I have to respect that he’s thought about it and made his decision. I will not have anybody making up his mind for him.

            GD Star Rating
            loading...
    • vanessayoung

      Good one, I wish I had your courage when I was a young Mum. The things I let my MIL get away with! *shudder*

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
    • melissasavage

      Last time we left the in laws they prayed over us and I was just standing there going ‘oh god, let this be over soon’. I don’t think that’s the prayer I was supposed to be saying!

      Like you, I’m in for a battle against proselytising in laws. Sigh.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
    • Peta

      Ahhh….the religious mother-in-law who attempts to pass her own interpretations of the bible and beliefs off as fact. I have one of those.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • Phillybaby

        We had a similar experience a few weeks ago too! My husband and I ‘give thanks’ from time to time, but it is always a low-key, in-your-own-way type thing. My FIL insists on something much more formal and grabs my one year old’s hand, he understandably struggles against this which only makes my FIL grip tighter and become more forceful – I’m all for gratitude but I feel like his approach is going to give my kids a complex about faith. We want our kids to have a positive experience of our faith and find their own path – not feel like they are being forced into something.

        Problem is in moments like these (not just religious ones, but things that contradict the way we are trying to raise our kids in general) that I’m usually caught off-guard and find myself gob-smacked in the moment. Good on you for going with your gut.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
    • Liz

      I’m an athiest but I don’t believe I would have done the same thing as you in this situation. Participating in prayer is often done out of respect and I don’t think it would have “indoctrinated” your child in any way. People are often scared of the slippery slope, but if you raise your child as you do with a strong sense of ethics and morals, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

      This may not relate to you, but I think a lot of people say “let them make their own choices” but then work to shut out any exposure their kids may have to any other religion. Sure they can “know” about it, but strictly no participation. They really don’t end up with much choice at all.

      I was loosely raised catholic, participated in many a prayer at the houses of family and friends with varying levels of “theism”…but I lived my own life and found my own truth which is atheism.

      I wouldn’t be forbidding my child to pray, especially with their grandparent. If anything, it is respectful to the host, and the prayer itself is often a nice sentiment. Similar to xmas carols in my opinion.

      Of course each to their own, and I also stand by people who hold their own convictions. But i thought i’d share my own thoughts on this…

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • detachableprincess

        Thanks for your thoughts, Liz. I think part of my reasoning behind this action was the wish to re-establish to MIL that P-Daddy and I raise our children our way. It’s not necessarily prayer or religion that I’m rejecting, but I won’t have my child-rearing choices made for me. This is the same woman who showed LittleDude how to scrunch plastic bags to make a cool noise (acceptable), then scrumpled one in his face to see if it made a different sound (dangerous and stupid). Quite frankly, I can’t completely trust her judgement.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
    • katehunter

      My bestie at high school came from a happy-clapper Christian family. I was 13 when I went on holiday with them to the Gold Coast. We had to hold hands and sing grace AT McDONALDS. It was *ahem* character-building.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • duckformation

        In 4th grade, my bestie was also a happy clapper and she invited me to “camp”. We started every morning with prayer and Bible studies and as a Hindu I actually thought this was completely normal. I knew my Bible well (thanks to my Hindu dad) so was able to participate in the discussions. At the farewell dinner it emerged that I was the only non-Christian in a camp of 200 children. I still had not realised I was at a Christian camp until that moment – and it seemed my philosophically eclectic upbringing had helped me pass undetected for a week. At the dinner, some one tried to convert me, I did my best 10-year old effort to defend my right to a different religion, and I never went back to any camp again.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
  35. MissT

    Agree with those 3 principles!

    Loved your story about your kid using your religion to back themselves up. I did similar when I was little, I believe I was 3.

    I was sitting in the car with my mother and I told her my eye hurt. She asked why, I said it was because I’d been playing in the sandpit and got sand in it. She asked me when this was, and I said it was a week ago.

    She told me that sand cannot stay in your eye for a week without serious side effects, so I can’t have sand in my eye from a week ago. I told her I could, and I did. This went on and my mother was getting extremely frustrated with me as I simply refused to believe there was not sand in my eye from a week ago.

    She cracked it “I am a NURSE! I have been a nurse for over 20 years! If I say you can’t have sand in your eye from a week ago then you don’t!”

    That shut her up, she thought.

    Then a quiet voice, sweet as pie “Well, God told me I’m special and everything I say is right. So if I say there’s sand in my eye, there is.”

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  36. Anonymous

    My bestfriend is Hindu, I’m Anglican, My other Bestfriend is Catholic and I have other Muslim friends so my daughter will have experienced it all even though she is Anglican like myself and I will be raising her as such, We don’t go to church but I believe God is everywhere he cannot be contained in a building so I can pray and worship him anytime, anywhere, something else I will teach my daughter. I grew up going to church and have good memories of it as well as youth group

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • Anonymous

      Your daughter is Anglican? And who decided this? Did she, or did you?

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
  37. jackiek

    Excellent guidelines for living. Whether you believe in a god or not we should all practice the last two and be mindful/tolerant of the first.

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
  38. I’ve often wondered if, way way back in human pre-history, whether both language and religion were the by-products of children playing games with each other…

    Don’t get me wrong…if you have faith in something, and it gives meaning to your life, then I’ll back you 100%…but religion and the mythical stories that go along with them…well so much of it comes across as silly when you look at it from the outside…

    GD Star Rating
    loading...
    • Anonymous

      Particularly when placed next to Star Wars. If somebody told me that the stories/characters mentioned above were all characters from a sci-fi then I would shrug my shoulders and say “seems about right”. Mythologies (both the purposefully-fictional and the religious) often coincide as they’re based around the same premise: a good story!

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • iamevilcupcake

        Are you saying I’m not Sith? That it’s not real!

        Well I never!

        ;)

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
      • Tracy

        I watched ‘Legend of Bagger Vance’ last night and got the same spiritual message from that as what I do from most religious teachings- even after challenges you just follow what is true and right for us with balance and integrity through what ever path
        Seen also that Karma can be a proper bitch and never would like to mess with her!!!

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
    • Darrell

      Or were they made up by adults to console children who experienced loss?

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
    • JosieY

      That’s the thing JJ – the stories in the Bible are just that, stories! The Jewish word is Midrash, it basically means a meaningful myth, a way of reading the stories to make meaning from them. The stories are about people trying to make sense of the world around them in reference to themselves and God. They were never meant to be taken literally. That doesn’t diminish the meaning or significance of them. Of course, this is just my view (although I am a biblical scholar). Many people feel that a literal interpretation is needed for their understanding of God and that is their right.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • Anonymous

        But Josie, some people do believe it is literal. I have had conversations with Born again Christians who truly and literally believe that there was a talking snake and a guy with a boat who marched the animals two by two.
        Baffles me.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
        • JosieY

          Baffles me too. :)

          GD Star Rating
          loading...
        • K

          There is a talking snake in Harry Potter.

          Please don’t tell me Hogwarts isn’t real :O

          GD Star Rating
          loading...
      • Mumintheburbs

        Love this comment! A very balanced viewpoint.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
      • melissasavage

        Sadly there’s a very noisy minority of biblical inerrancy believers who really fuck things up for the rest of you.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
      • MissT

        I would love LOVE to sit down with you and have a really long conversation about this!

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
        • JosieY

          Maybe one of these days I’ll get off my arse and actually write something for MM about it! :)

          GD Star Rating
          loading...
          • Do it! The more viewpoints, the better! :)

            GD Star Rating
            loading...
          • MissT

            I’d love that, but I’d rather be able to speak to you! Love talking about religion :)

            GD Star Rating
            loading...
            • JosieY

              Miss T, if you get my email from the MM team religion is my favourite topic!

              GD Star Rating
              loading...
    • melissasavage

      I think that’s an excellent theory. I am reading God is not Great at the moment and Hitch is fond of talking about religions belonging to the infancy of our species. I’m not sure it is just children though, I think religions developed in an era of mass illiteracy in the face of harsh conditions where death was an ever present danger and very few ordinary people had any time or training to look for evidence for things.

      GD Star Rating
      loading...
      • rupoo

        hey josieY. it upsets me greatly that you are training to be an ‘Anglican Priest’ and yet don’t believe the word of God to be just that – the word of God. not sure how this works as ministers in the Anglican church must subscribe to the 39 articles of faith, which it doesn’t appear you do.

        I’m not judging your beliefs, I’m just questioning your wisdom and thought behind joining a universal communion that has fought bravely for the truth of the gospel over many centuries.

        GD Star Rating
        loading...
        • JosieY

          Hi rupoo. I absolutely do believe that the Bible is the word of God, as mediated through men at a particular time and place in history. I do ascribe to the articles of faith, but again an interpretation of them that allows me to keep my faith and my common sense. The great thing about Anglicanism is that there is space for all of us. I am typical of a certain type of Anglican but there are plenty who disagree with me, and I am very comfortable with that.

          Blessings,
          Josie

          GD Star Rating
          loading...