“Every child deserves to be excited they are a part of life,” Michelle Duggar told PEOPLE Magazine after announcing to the world that she is pregnant with her 20th child. Yes 20th.
It’s not the first time we have spoken about the Duggar’s on Mamamia check here, here, here and here. They’re a pretty extraordinary family.
PEOPLE reports:
The reality stars have faced mounting criticism over the size of their family and the risks of Michelle’s new pregnancy following the premature birth of their daughter, Josie, in Dec. 2009. But the couple insists that Josie’s frightening premature birth and Michelle’s life-threatening preeclampsia were not enough to convince them that 19 kids were enough.
“If we felt that way, we would have stopped back with our second birth,” insists Michelle, 45, who experienced preeclampsia during her second pregnancy with twins John David and Jana, now 21. “There are many women who have experienced preeclampsia and have gone on to have more children.”
“That whole mind set that you stop after a problem pregnancy isn’t realistic,” she continues. “You may encounter struggles along the way. You may not have a perfect pregnancy, but each child is a precious gift.”
The Duggars, who star on TLC’s 19 Kids and Counting, live debt free in a house they built themselves in Tontitown, Ark. They have also come under fire from those suggesting that their older kids have too much responsibility caring for the younger ones and that they don’t pay enough individual attention to their kids.
What do you think? Are the Duggars the anti-Kardashians?
Comments
241 Comments so far
I’ve had 4 and that is completely enough for me…not just mentally but physically. And I’m blessed with healthy children. I just dont know how her body can cope with another baby. I agree they have raised amazing kids and are doing a fabulous job as parents but her last baby and her complications surely should have been a warning to her that it was time to stop.
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They certainly are youthful-looking for people with 19 kids!
I cannot even imagine spending so much time breastfeeding and/or pregnant. Holy crap.
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You just made me remember her hair! When did she have time to do that elaborate curl thing? (Yuk)
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I’ve heard of the Duggars before but I’d never actually watched one of their videos before.
I have to admit, I watched this and I just smiled. They seem so happy!
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I’m one of five children. I have 6 kids under the age of 8 often get told I’m crazy or how do I cope? I’ll be honest it isn’t always easy my husband is really hands & helps me out with the kids. I think other people are always quick to jugde bigger families with question like how do you afford it? My kids have everything need & don’t want for anything. We do manage to give the kids there individual attention. Good on the Duggars they seem really happy & have it together. Everyone has the choice as to how big they want there family to be clearly the Duggars are happy to be having baby number 20.Wish them all the best!
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“Everyone has the choice as to how big they want there family to be”
No, some of us actually consider this planet that we live on, not just our selfish needs, and would never ever have 20 kids as it’s socially irresponsible. We are lucky there aren’t many people as crazy as the Duggars, imagine where the world would be if everyone had 20 kids.
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Completely agree J…I couldn’t of said it better myself! The global population has just hit 7 billion, the worlds resources are being stretched, and people think having 20 children is ok? Totally socially irresponsible.
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no wonder the older kids need to parent the younger ones…how else would they find time to have so much sex!
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Unless they are like a guppy and can continue having babies long after they mate.
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Every time I hear about the Duggars I am filled with sadness for the elder children. Their system for making a family of twenty work is that after 6 months Michelle weans the baby and assigns him/her to an older sibling, who is also heavily involved in domestic tasks.
I think it’s sad that these kids won’t be going to college, moving away from home or seeking their own life choices because their parents life choices restrict them. Jana (the eldest girl) wanted to become a midwife but couldn’t as the birth of Josie meant she couldn’t leave home. It’s beautiful that she loves her family enough to do this, of course…
It’s one thing to give up your career/interests to totally devote yourself to parenthood (which you would have to with 20 children). It’s another thing to force that on a teenager.
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Is that really their system? Articles on Mamamia are the only time I’ve ever heard of them.
Doesn’t really sound like they’re setting their kids up for success in life. I get that hard work and family values are great attributes, but so is freedom.
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I used to be an entertainment reporter (around baby 16) and that was their system back then. I doubt it’s changed, because I couldn’t think of another way to make it work.
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Given that the only way the girls get out of the house is by getting married (how do they meet boys? at church? self-perpetuating pattern?) I guess going to college isn’t a major priority. Sad that they won’t have the opportunity to make something of themselves as individuals before going from being ‘daughter and care-giver to younger siblings’ to ‘wife and presumably mother’.
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They go off to church camps for very large families, and get farmed out to their own age-groups for a few days. So they will most likely meet other people brought up that way, and perpetuate their propagation!
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is it only the girls that get handed a baby to care for?
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I don’t think so, but I haven’t watched much of it.
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FFS and to think all I want is just ONE.
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I wish they would stop blaming God for their inability to use birth control LOL.
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Thats quite a loaded comment you have there – please have some respect for people who clearly choose, in line with their faith, their own birth control methods, or lack thereof.
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“please have some respect for people who clearly choose, in line with their faith, their own birth control methods, or lack thereof.”
I can’t, I’m sorry. In my opinion this is not worthy of respect.
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In the home town where I am from there was a family with 22 kids. And that was DECADES ago when the whole birthing thing wasn’t as safe as it was now. Not to mention the lack of reality TV media attention…
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My aunt married a man who was one of 20, 18 surviving. Interestingly the youngest was born in 1964, which happens to be the year the contraceptive pill was introduced in Australia…
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Mabye it was the lack of TV back then that helped creating the 22 kids…
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Lol… my grandmother who had 17 kids and came from Scandanavia blamed it on the cold weather as to why she had so many!
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I think that’s the difference. In developed countries, if you have 20 babies, generally, you’ll be raising 20 kids, whereas years ago (or in 3rd world countries still), you wouldn’t. Either mum or one of the babies could die, or a young child might die from an infectious disease (whooping cough, diphtheria etc). That’s partly why so many babies were born in the first place, so that at least some survived to adulthood.
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I grew up as one of six children, and was very resentful of the size of our family. I can only imagine what it would be like as one of 20. The individual attention we received was far less of that for kids in families of friends and relatives. We often felt that our basic needs were met but we could not get the emotional support we needed. Not to mention a continual financial struggle. I realise that many kids grow up much poorer than I did, but it always felt that my parents chose our financial situation but having six kids. My father had a steady job as a lawyer, but the money didn’t stretch as far as it might with fewer kids.
What is more concerning is that the environmental impact of what they are doing will be immense. There’s research coming out that families with just one child who are vegan, do not drive a car, use cloth nappies, recycle carefully and follow other good environmental practices will have a greater carbon footprint than couples with no children who drive four wheel drive cars, eat meat, do not recycle, and are generally careless with their environmental practices. In addition, an American baby has seven times the impact that a Chinese baby would have.
Here’s a link to an article in the New York Times referring to the research:
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/having-children-brings-high-carbon-impact/
Each of those babies born will grow up to need a house and in turn may have more children of their own.
Furthermore, as an atheist, leaving the fertilisation of an egg to a higher power, when there is sperm on its way to meet it, seems ridiculous to me. I’m a scientist and observe cause and effect.
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I grew up as one of six, and so did my husband. I loved it.
Please note: We grew up in different families, I did not marry one of my brothers.
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Mary, I snorted that you clarified you did not marry your brother.
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I’m no Atheist/Catholic but in my personal opinion, denying a child a right to life because of a large carbon footprint sounds crazy. An American child has every right to live as a Chinese child. This idea just sounds crazy to me.
Each family, big or small, are different and I don’t think a lack of emotional attention can be generalised for big families.
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Have you watched how they live? they are not the normal American family at all so I would not imagine their carbon footprint to be anything like average! And so what if it is. It is everyones right to have as many children as they wish, as long as they can support them.
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That’s exactly my point. And the point of the article I linked to. It doesn’t matter how they live, just the existence of those people is more of a carbon draw than people who live environmentally carelessly.
It doesn’t matter how environmentally sustainable they are when raising the little kids, they will all grow up. They will need housing, most likely a car, food, and generally become consumers. They may have more kids of their own. Even if you are very environmentally conscious, the food they are eating has to be grown, transported by trucks, cooked. Even if they grow some of their own, they still have to be consumers, and their kids and grandchildren will be consumers.
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should we just go and shoot “those people”then?they are just matter to atheists.Oh,but wait,that makes you just matter as well.
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I’m not going to get into an argument with someone who makes accusations and spouts hyperbole. I never said anything of the kind. I’m talking about thinking about the impact that your own personal actions have on the rest of the world. About thinking of these issues when making life plans.
And yes, I am matter. But I am also a human being and I am not proposing eugenics here. This has nothing to do with belief or lack of belief in anything. Just a bit of thought for your fellow man. Sounds like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about atheists, so I’ll leave it there.
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sorry,but this has everything to do with belief,don’t start getting confused now!a true atheist believes that there is nothing after life,nothing “got us here” we just somehow morphed into these incredibly complicated beings(?)and hence you shouldn’t give a stuff about what this family does to the environment or the person next to you or your partner etc…we are all just matter after all and wether we live or die is irrelevant.we have nothing or rather no one to answer to.
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Atheism doesn’t mean you don’t believe people are important, it just means you don’t believe in the existence of god or gods. Historically speaking atheists are much less likely than believers of any faith to go shooting people because of their way of life.
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This is in reply to hh, the reply button under hh’s message has disappeared on my computer.
hh, most atheists I have speak with don’t believe we just morphed into these incredibly complicated human beings. There is a well described theory which accounts for much of human development. Evolution. I am constantly fascinated by it and I read anything I can find about it.
As for the implication that atheists are all immoral beings as they don’t believe that they will have to answer to anyone/anything when we are dead, that simply is not true. In fact I would put forth that by that logic, atheists are more moral than some people who do believe we will be judged for our actions. The vast majority of atheists act morally (after all, there are no reports that I am aware of of gangs of murdering/raping/theiving atheists roaming the streets) despite the fact that they do not believe they will be rewarded or punished by a higher power. They do it just because they choose to be good people and contribute to society for no other reward than the deed itself.
On another but somewhat related note, I am currently living in a southern state of the USA and prop 26 (the “personhood” debate) is being voted on in Mississippi today. While I realise much of American politics is not of too much interest to Australia, if it is passsed (and it looks like it might be), it may have implications for Australia, and it certainly will have implications for women in the USA.
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I have heard or proposition 26 and I sincerely hope it does not pass. It sounds very scary.
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Um wow… I’m all for the environment but not at the cost of… people! I mean, it seems a little extreme to say we shouldnt even have children because of course people are going to use resources! Would you want people to stop reproducing all together so the human race could just die out totally and then the earth could replenish itself or something? I know thats a long bow but… if not that, then who is to say who can have kids or how many they are ‘allowed’ to have…
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Woah, hey, when did I ever say that? There is a lot of anger and atheist hating happening here. All I said was that there are consequences to our actions. The reality is that many more children in one family will lead to more resources consumed and carbon output. And it is not offset by being environmental conscious when you raise them as children, because they will grow up and become adults. People seem to be disliking the truth of this, and instead you are pinning things on me I never said.
I love children, and fully support the right that people enjoy to have them. I just think some families should discuss how many kids they have, and the impact that their decision will have on the rest of the world.
If I were to express my opinions on Christianity, make assumptions, and accuse you of having beliefs that some of your denominations share that you do not, I would be accused of Christian bashing. Why is it OK to assume things of me because I lack a belief in any god? Is this really dinner party conversation? Moderators?
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If their family seems to be working fine for them and the children are growing up regular people, who is to judge? They are debt free so that is commendable. Not for me EVER, but each to their own.
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I’m both an atheist and an environmentalist and I agree. It’s none of my frakking business how many children people choose to have. I’d rather we focus on living sustainably within the confined of the world we have, rather than hysterically claiming that we are overpopulated. I support reproductive choice which means I support giving all women the option but not the obligation to use contraception.
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this is in reply to Amanda Panda.I hope that they do pass the law.Every baby has a right to life.I don’t use contraceptives and am open to life.I don’t have 20 kids(2)and have used the Billings method safely for 12 yrs and will remain open to life it I fell pregnant.True atheism teaches that we are basically a law unto ourselves and not answerable to anyone.That doesn’t imply that you are more moralistic then a christian though.Sounds pretty morbid to me and frankly it must be terrifiying believing that when you die then “thats it”.Whats the point really.
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We have fundamentally different viewpoints, and therefore will have to agree to disagree.
But I will saythat atheism is not terrifying. On the contrary, I find it extremely comforting.
Peace out.
Edited to add: Prop 26 was voted down! Hurrah for a woman’s right to choose what happens to her own body!
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what could possibly be comforting about thinking that when you die then thats it?whats life about then? we live then we die?depressing.Shame about Prop 26 not being passed.
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Seriously? There’s a whole lot that happens between being born and dying. So by your logic, this life that is definitely real is less valuable than another world that only might be real?
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Hh, I m not an atheist, I believe there is a source of life/energy in this world – whether we call it god or mot the hoople doesn’t make a difference. But I am not sure about the afterlife. What I do know is that we don’t know for certain. That, to me, makes it really important to love the life we have now. And really exciting to see what happens next. Could be a whole new realm of life, could be nothing, it’s like a lottery!
And re atheism, I don’t think you understand it very well. True atheism is the absence of belief in a deity. Nothing more. It doesn’t mean anarchy, or lawlessness, or having no moral compass, it doesn’t promote or “teach” anything. It just means you don’t believe a god exists.
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It does if you listen to fundamentalist preachers.
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I LOVE the Duggars. Sure, it’s not common having 20 kids these days. But if you watch the show, you’ll see that there is so much love in that household. They are also responsible, don’t live on welfare and are extremely self-sufficent. They buy all their clothes second hand, have no debt and work hard.
And on the matter of the older kids look after the littlies, isn’t this how most families used to be? My Dad is 1 of 14 kids, and he said he used to have to help plait his sisters hair to get ready for school. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing learning to be responsible, and the bond between siblings is something special.
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I completely agree with you!
“They are also responsible, don’t live on welfare and are extremely self-sufficent. They buy all their clothes second hand, have no debt and work hard.”
It’s not like they’re carelessly having children and struggling.
So what’s the problem?
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As long as the older kids feel free to move out/go to college, it seems perfectly fine to me as well. All families need all their members to pull their weight while they remain in the parental home.
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What I want to know is, where do they get all those kakhi pants?
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exactly what I was thinking !!
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I love a little reality TV but I cannot abide these people, the reason they have so many children is because they are evangelical christians & do not believe in any kind of birth control, not even natural methods. All the children are home schooled & marry & socialise only within their religious community (old god network?), they seem like nice kids, all polite, respectful & helpful around the house.
But…seriously 20? There clearly comes a time when the cervix cannot carry another life, hang it up Michelle, just say no!
& it all just gives me the creeps.
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I can hardly criticise this family – my mum was one of 21 children, and all the kids had at least four given names. A brave member of the family attempted to write out the family tree, using a manual type-writer. I have first cousins I’ve never met. It’s mental.
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I know this certainly doesn’t equate but I’m 1 of 4 children in my household and I always wish I had more siblings.
Yes growing up there were the hand-me-downs, the sibling wars and parents not always being able to give us the attention we wanted but we were happy and still are.
Whatever we missed out on, we didn’t feel like we did because we made everything up through our relationships and bonding with our siblings.
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I’m amazed they have the energy to shag!
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I expect Michelle doesn’t notice any more.
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hahahahaahahahhahaha. Maybe I’m taking your comment the wrong way but I spat my drink out laughing!!!!! hahahahahahaahha
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“pick that up would you, darling?”
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HAHAHAHAHAHA I’m crying with laughter.
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Firstly I think they are bat-shit crazy for wanting that many kids, but that’s just my opinion.
When you really think about it though, after getting over the initial shock of them actually WANTING 20 kids, have we ever heard a news story of one of the Duggar kids in trouble? Bar fight? Domestic abuse? Stealing? Murder? Stripping?
Nope. You haven’t. So really, how bad a job can the parents be doing?
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Excellent point – both that they’re batshit crazy and that the kids haven’t been in trouble…
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That’s because the older kids can barely leave the house with all the smaller children around to take care of.
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Perhaps Lindsay Lohan should slip on a khaki skirt and join the line up. It couldn’t hurt.
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One of my best friends is from a family of eleven, with three sets of twins. Her mum homeschooled all of them. Contrary to what some may be thinking, all eleven of those children have gone on to get tertiary educations in law, engineering, medicine, and arts. They are amazing (and yes, I know, possibly the exception!)
We would never criticise someone for not having children. So long as these families are taking responsibility for all their children; why are some so quick to find fault?
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Your friend is different. Her family sounds awesome. I’m assuming they aren’t stars of their own reality show. In my opinion, once you sign up for that kind of thing, you offer yourself up for adulation and/or criticism. I think the rights and the privacy of the Duggar children have been compromised and the parents know it.
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When you say “we would never criticise someone for not having children” that isnt true, complete strangers will cirticise people for not having children! Also my husband and I have chosen to have one child, due to a whole range of reasons, and we are often told “you cant do that” among other comments. So it seems, it doesnt matter what you choose, someone else will have an opinion. Although having 2 kids does seem more socially acceptable.
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This is a tricky one.
I would never have 20 kids however this family believes that God decides how many children you have so that is how they have ended up here. From the very small number of episodes that I have seen, they are heavily involved in their church who helps them with food etc and they only shop at second hand stores. All of the children seem well adjusted, pleasant and helpful.
Whilst it is not for me, I think it is unfair for people to judge this family so harshly. From what I understand they aren’t just sitting around on welfare, continuing to get pregnant for the sake of it – these are their beliefs and this is how they have chosen to live their lives. None of the kids have turned out to be crazy axe murderers (yet) so maybe they do get enough love and attention from the family.
Like I said, not for me but I don’t think they are hurting anyone by doing this.
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My two boys drive me crazy most days. I think I’d be a blubbering mess in the corner by the time I got to 20! I think they’re insane, and I worry about the kids they already have. But hey, I don’t live in their family. It might be great. Then again, it might not.
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I just don’t understand the practicalities. I’m flat out caring for 2…How do they afford everything and get everything done? I mean things like reading, teeth cleaning, washing, individual time, quiet time etc
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Each older kid is paired with one of the younger kids, and takes responsibility for them. I personally like the Duggars as people (from what I have seen on TV anyway!) but think this is simply ridiculous. I feel so sorry for the older kids.
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Lana, I know we’re both the mums of ex-premmies and that’s the thing that gets me most of all. Josie, their 19th, was just over 700g when she was born at 25 weeks.
She was incredibly ill; she suffered countless operations and a perforated bowel. As you know, having a prem isn’t just crap for the poor little bub, it’s hard yards for the entire family for YEARS.
So I find it INCREDIBLY SELFISH that they are prepared to go down that road again. Sure, there’s no reason why she can’t have a normal pregnancy…but if you’re 45 and have had pre-eclampsia before, is it really worth the risk?
Just. Stop. Already.
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Would you say the same if it was her first pregnancy that had been so troublesome? Are all women who have babies after a premmie or pre-eclampsia being selfish and irresponsible?
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Of course not.
But I think if you have had 19 OTHER CHILDREN maybe it’s time to listen to your body and really consider the toll that another baby may have on your health and your family…
Call me a hypocrite if you like, but I think wanting to add to your family of two or three or four seems reasonable and maybe worth weighing up the risks going forward; wanting to add a 20th child when there are some fairly good reasons not to seems beyond sense.
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It was my first thought bugmum. I had preeclampsia and my health was severely compromised and I always feel a bit guilty that it was my health that forced Ethan to have such a hard start in life. My own daughter cautioned me heavily about a next pregnancy.
Edit: That was meant to read ” My own DOCTOR cautioned me heavily about a next pregnancy.”
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You have a daughter Lana? How come you don’t talk about her?
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OOOOOPS that was meant to be doctor!!!!!!
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Freudian slip!
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I have more wrinkles than Michelle and I’m 27 with no kids. Props where they’re due.
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I don’t think its fair to criticize them, they clearly love their children and take good care of them, which is all you can ask of anyone. And they offer a good deal more than some families who have only one or two children.
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Geez. Imagine how big the table would have to be at Christmas!
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I think it would be a very religious christmas without the fun of leaving stockings out for santa. Evangelical christians believe that santa is just an anagram of satan and go on and on about Jesus being the reason for the season
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To be completely superficial, I can’t think of 20 names I love enough to name all those kidlets! Good grief, if there were middle names too :O
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& all of their names start with J…
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That’s the exact problem that popped into my head… I think the only way you could combat it is to work your way through the alphabet: Anna, Brad, Calli, Darren, Elizabeth, Fred, etc
http://thefridgedoorblog.com
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Like the book ’10 Kids, No Pets’!! I loved that book
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Apparantly all the names begin with J too. 20 names that begin with J? I think they’ve gotten a bit creative over the years and used some G names but with J as an alternative spelling
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I’d be interested to hear from the older children. I mean, are the older children really the ones who are raising the little kids? I wonder if the older kids feel like they have been robbed of their teen years?
I’m making assumptions of course. They may all love it and want to do the same thing when they have families of their own …
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I think you’re right Bec, the older 4 or 5 girls seem to be in charge of little kids, laundry and meals. One of them (Jana maybe?) wanted to fo to uni to become a midwife but wasn’t able to because the family needed her at home. I thought that was a bit sad. It seems like marriage is the only valid reason to leave the fmaily home. Josh the oldest boy has two kids of his own now as well. It’s such a different way of life.
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I know 3 families who are larger than what is considered normal these days. The older kids do have to chip in and help with the younger kids, but I can honestly say these kids are wonderful people. They have no sense of entitlement that teenagers have in bucket loads these days. They are responsible, caring, respectful people who adore their parents and siblings. I want my own kids to be like them.
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Me too Bec.
I have a friend who is one of 13 kids.
His eldest sister never had children of her own, by the time she was old enough to leave home she was completely over child-rearing and domestic chores.
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I have a good friend who is one of 12. Not twenty, but 12 is a lot. No twins. The family also took in foster kids. I don’t think it was a picnic by any stretch, but you couldn’t meet a less selfish bunch of people. My friend says, ‘Even if you have one or two kids, parent like you have ten.’ Wise words, I think. That said, I think the Duggars are just being silly now.
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I’m a big fan of that saying. If you have 10 kids, there’s no way you can hassle them as much as if you have 2.
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It’s interesting to think about how different our reactions would be if someone were damning parents for only having one child and robbing that child of siblings…
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The older girls are expected to help raise the younger ones and do housework etc. From what I have seen the older boys are not expected to do any cooking/housework at all. They do the ”manly” stuff like yard work and house maintenance. Very patriarchal set up. The only way those girls will ever get to leave home is if they marry. I doubt any of them will ever do any further education or have a career as such. I have noticed that they are in no
hurry to find any of the oldest girls a husband either. Josh was married and out of the house by the time he was 20, I think they want to keep the girls around to help with the other children.
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how do they manage to share their love & time around equally to all these children? i just don’t see how it works. its almost like they just keep on going to get more & more publicity. would they have done this back in the days before reality tv shows & magazine spreads that they get paid for?
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This was always going to happen – I’m surprised that you’re surprised MM Team! The Duggars have very strong beliefs and part of those beliefs are that God decides how many children you have, not you. That sentiment is woven through every aspect of their lives and I can’t see how that would ever change. I hope everything goes well for Michelle this time around, for her and for the sake of the rest of her family.
As much as I can look at her family and say that that way of life isn’t for me, I also think everyone has to make the choices that they can live with for themselves.
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couldn’t have said it better frangipani
I have friends that are pregnant with their 9th and 10th child and everyone (including all their other kids) are really excited about their impending arrival. Family is a hands-on thing for all involved. In my opinion housework, cooking, lifts and taking an interest in someone’s day are not just for the parents – everyone needs to be involved. In some families that extends to nappy changes and bathtime as well. Who are we to judge them?
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I am so sick of this family. Having 20 children is irresponsible, whether you can afford them or not. There is no way there are enough hours in the day to give each child the attention and love they need. Anyone who want’s to have that many kids has got to be crazy IMO. And they obviously love the attention they get from their crazy life choice because they’ve made a reality show out of it…
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Why would they be the anti-Kardashians? They’ve got their own reality show too!
I’d love to know how they afford to feed 20 children. Obviously, now they get paid for the reality show, but before then, how did they afford it?!
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I think the reason they can be considered Anti Kardashian is they are so anti consumer. They make their own clothes, they are not into make up and bags and well, spending money. They are just devout people who have a LOT of children
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But they’re also attention seekers? I think if you’re in the reality tv game then you’re all the same…
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Right I get it now. They must want money though if they are doing a tv show. They obviously need it, I mean, even if both parents worked feeding and housing 20 kids would be outrageously expensive! Even though they own their own home, they would still have to pay electricity, rates, gas, water!
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Have visited the Duggar Family Website, they have a store that sells Modesty clothing (the swimsuits are 2 layer neck to knee jobs), books and dvds. I watched one episode of the show and Jim Bob mentioned his website as his work although I understand he is a licenced builder. I guess each to their own so far as 20 kids goes. Some only children are neglected. At least Michelle could never be accused of being a “helicopter mum”
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Modesty clothing? Can’t imagine who’d buy them except perhaps as halloween costumes. I wonder if they sell the khaki pants, lol
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