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teacher 380x380 Teachers tell parents: Raise your own damned kids

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School is back for most now and there is an audible sigh of relief from parents as their kids rush back into the classroom for another year.

But wait, there seems to be some confusion over just who is raising the kids.

So, let’s be clear.

Teachers are not substitute parents. Repeat after me: teachers are not responsible for the bits parents miss out. They are not there to pick up the slack if parents can’t be bothered doing it right to begin with.

Teachers exist to guide young minds in the spirit of discovery. They help our kids learn, to be sure, but in the subjects we accept they have expertise in. Like grammar and mathematics, geography and history. Leave it to them to broaden the mind and parents to mould the manner of the child. Makes sense to me.

But, you guessed it, it doesn’t always work this way.

I spent more than a year working in education, privy to an astounding array of case studies in schools of friction, complaints and praise. Some of it warranted. Much of it was not.

But what struck me the most was the never-ending cavalcade of complaints from parents who blamed schools and teachers for everything from lack of discipline through to the music their child was listening to. They thought their duties as a parent stopped when the child was born and resumed only to berate their surrogates, the teachers, when school started.

Which is why I wasn’t surprised to read this. News.com.au reports:

Parents are shirking the responsibility of disciplining their kids, turning teachers into makeshift mums and dads.

A major Herald Sun survey of Victorian teachers found three-quarters believe parents have unreasonable expectations about the school’s role in raising kids.

And the stresses are showing, with nearly half of teachers surveyed admitting they had considered resigning over the past 12 months.

Educators say parents have become too fixated on being “friends” with their children, and are increasingly neglecting their duty to enforce boundaries.

One of the points teachers made in the survey was that parents thought the powers of the teacher extended beyond school hours and into the child’s home. In Victoria alone, parents brought in 200 pages of their children’s Facebook transcripts and said ‘I’ll leave this for you to sort out’.

Did they not realise the Internet is available everywhere and, very often these days, children use it first in the home?

The problem arises in territory disputes. Schools must discipline their students to make things work, but are their efforts always reinforced at home? And parents may make inroads in behaviour at home, but how much is undone at school?

The reality is that parents and schools exist in a shared custody arrangement of our nation’s children.

During the week children will spend almost as much time with their teachers as they will their parents. So of course it’s a bonus if Australia’s teachers take it upon themselves to make their charges the most well-rounded young minds and characters they can. But if parents just come to expect it, and in so doing abdicate their responsibilities as guardians, then we’re all in a little bit of strife.

And these parents may well be the same ones who say the teachers are terrible, overpaid and lazy.

Newsflash: you can’t have it both ways.

Where does parenting stop and teaching begin, where should the line be drawn?

Comments

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293 Comments so far

  1. Janice Mcdona

    Teaching can be stressful and rewarding but I agree some parents do not show any interest in their own child’s development. They don’t come to meetings, they send the kids to school with homework that is incomplete or without the homework at all. Some teachers like myself give 120% but can’t get some parents to give even 20%. That is why so many are leaving this profession. But I would like to urge those who have the kids interests at heart not to despair each teacher is a stepping stone for a student but we are not the stairs. We are cogs in the wheel but not the whole engine. If you feel content as a teacher that you are doing the best you can, that you are pulling your weight then don’t stress. Don’t give yourself high blood pressure and headaches pushing yourself to give more and more and more. Some parents do need to take responsibility for their kids.

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  3. Graham

    Well there you go, surveys are now stating the blindingly obvious, that parents are not disciplining their children, and not enforcing boundaries. And half the teachers surveyed have considered resigning over this. Well we can all thank the idiots that have taken away the rights of parents to discipline their children, and teachers for that matter. Here is the proof that the just talking to children does not work. But no matter what happens, they will still say they are right, no matter what proof is shown to them.

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  4. Lauren

    I’m a student about to go into year 12, through my entire 13 years of school I have encounted many teachers some were absolutely brilliant others not so much. my english teachers Kellie and Johnny were amazing. They were dedicated engaging. They nurtured my reading writing and grammar skills, even moral values which have helped sculpt me into the person I am today. My dance teacher Margaret another one of those brilliant teachers, was completely inspiring, she was someone I could relate and look up to.
    I have also seen the other side of the spectrum. I moved schools midway through year 10 and had a neverending struggle with settling in and home life which lead to me feeling alone and depressed. So I decided to open up to a teacher about it and she told me to get over myself and there were much other worse things happening in the world that were more important than my issues. Many other teachers ignored my cry for help, I even had a teacher purposely ignore me having a panic attack and left me in a room on my own till 3.45pm. 55 minutes after school had been dismissed! Absolutely disgusting, it is these kinds of teachers that give quality ones the name of being glorified babysitters. There are so many teachers out there that don’t care about the welfare of their students, so I can understand why parents would be pointing fingers they just need to learn the difference.

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  5. Liz Jakimow

    To a certain extent, I agree. Parents do need to take responsibility for their own children. It is inappropriate and unfair to expect teachers to raise their kids. And any parent who leaves the raising of their child to a school cannot complain if their children don’t turn out the way they want them to.

    However, I do think the focus schools place on the academic is not doing our children any favours. No matter how well you know your reading, writing and arithmetic, if you don’t know how to get along with others, behave in certain situations and deal with your emotions, you’re not going to go far. In fact, it is these life skills that actually the more important than academic results. They help people to succeed in a career and contribute to society. It also affects how people treat our planet, the people in it – and themselves. Ultimately, a person’s test results will not bring themselves or others much joy. How they live in the world will.

    So why not just leave that part of life to the parents and let the schools focus on the academic part?

    First, children spend six hours in school, more when you add in travelling time and homework. Very few parents would have the time to spend six hours teaching their children values and life skills, once this time for school is taken out. Admittedly, these kinds of life skills are often woven throughout other activities. But even then, children will always receive more academic training than they do values or life skills training.

    Also, the compulsory nature of school and the focus on tests like NAPLAN tells kids that academic performance is important. They are unlikely to feel the same about what their parents are trying to teach them. The weight given to academic results actually changes children’s values, because they have been taught from a very early age that it’s how well you read and write that really matters in life. Children need to be taught that their behaviours, values and attitudes matter too. No matter how much a parent tries to instil this in their children, if they’re hearing opposite messages from elsewhere, then children will have difficulty fully accepting this.

    Perhaps most importantly, teachers have far more opportunity to see how a child behaves with other people than the parents do. They are better placed to notice a problem and guide them through a situation. One of my sons is very shy and has trouble making friends. While I am constantly working with him on this, I am limited by the fact that, when he’s around people of his own age, I’m not usually around. As there are children with learning difficulties, there are also children with social difficulties. It would be good to see them get the same assistance and guidance as those who don’t do well on tests.

    I don’t want to suggest that schools are only focused on the academic. Schools do care about values. They do deal with behaviour problems. At least the schools my kids go to do. I’m sure other schools are the same. But in a world where schools are judged on their NAPLAN results, obviously they’re going to pay more attention to academic learning than life learning. And in my opinion, life learning is more important.

    Ultimately, it is the parent’s responsibility to raise their children. And I for one don’t want to leave all that important training to a school. However, the saying goes that it takes a village to raise a child. Shouldn’t then both parents and schools be involved in ensuring that we raise children who have all the necessary skills to help them succeed in life? A school must be judged by more than how well their students do in tests.

    (This comment was originally written as a response on my blog, at http://godgumnuts.blogspot.com/2012/01/schools-too-focused-on-academic.html)

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    • Anonymous teacher

      I think most teachers would agree with you! Unfortunately the Government imposes the NAPLAN upon us and parents mis-read the data and add pressure to the schools to perform.

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    • sigh

      Thank you Liz for posting what I do not have the wherewithall to articulate right now. Having some exposure with child protection it breaks my heart to hear of such discourse amongst the primary adult role models placed in society to protect children. Child Protection is legislated as a community responsibility, and teachers are legislated mandated protectors, supporters and facilitators of mental health, wellbeing and social inclusion. It is too true that parents sometimes do not have the time, sometimes do not have the skills and sometimes do not have the sense … Children do not come to school and leave their troubles at the school gate .. they are whole, complete, developing, inter-relating, inter-dependent, social and soulful beings and rightfully deserve our protection at all our intersections with them … academia is a secondary need to the needs of safety, health, wellbeing and happiness. Indeed without these securities academic will or attainment has proved to have negligible impacts on lifecourse outcomes anyway. The education sector is frought with conflicting agendas currently, and there are exceptional, brilliant teachers trying to navigate as best they can, but it is heartbreaking to find such discourse in it … Where is the hope? Breaks my heart ….

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    • Anon teacher

      Liz,
      A couple of points.
      1. NAPLAN is not an academic test, rather a diagnostic tool used by schools to address literacy and numeracy with individual students. This is not academic, rather a necessity for life. If people cannot read, comprehend, infer, calculate, add, subtract etc, how do we expect them to be a part of society?
      2. Schools are extremely focussed on holistic education of the person, however, I think you’re missing the point, teachers are now expected to be involved in the traditional parenting roles.
      3. When teaching a class of 29-30 people, it becomes extremely hard to meet the simple and basic criteria set out by the curriculum, if you are also expected to teach these people things like manners and other life skills. This is harder for high schools, where teachers see students for approximately an hour a day.
      4. Each school is different. Some are results driven othrs focus on how the individual performs, and their personal best. It becomes the parents’ decision which school they send their child to. Please don’t pool all schools into the same basket, it debases the majority of teachers out there who struggle with just getting a student to be the best they can be.
      5. Try being a teacher for a day, then you’ll get where I’m coming from

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  6. Anonymous

    This is a difficult one for me. 2 of my closest friends are teachers at a private high school we all attended and all they do is bitch about their jobs. They are stressed out all the time and constantly talking about how teaching is “way harder and more difficult, with more demands than any other job” They are both being paid 100 grand annually.
    Im sure its no picnic being a teacher. Im well aware that some teachers put up with way more than what any teacher should but the women Im friends with are in a very cushy environment and I am assured that they are treated very well by students, fellow staff and parents the majority of the time. If you hate your job so much quit and find something less stressful or please do not bitch to me every time you see me- even during Christmas holidays – about how your job is harder than mine.

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    • lucindainthesky

      In the private schools that pay wages that high, the pressure is high enough to match. Good behaviour from students is about the only cushy thing in those kinds of jobs. The pressure and expectations from the school heirarchy and parents to perform and get students to achieve a certain academic level are huge huge huge. Parent complaints (i.e whinging) can lead to losing your job. Your friends are obviously only staying where they are for the extra money, I wouldn’t choose that type of teaching job. The stress is not worth it. But I agree, if they hate it that much, they should leave instead of bitching all the time. Noone needs other peoples negativity to bring them down.

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    • Another teacher

      I’d sure like to be getting paid that much! I’ve been teaching 11 years and earn nowhere near that much!!!

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  7. Nic

    I realize these comments are in response to a post about teaching and parenting, so discussing parental / teacher responsibility levels in terms of homework and manners makes sense. However, as a secondary school teacher, I would also like suggest that students need to start taking ownership of their choices and responsibity for their actions. This can be taught, but we need time to teach it and we need administration (gov and school) who support such programs.

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  8. Aparent

    Fair enough, Parents are to parent the child and Teachers are to teach the child. Let’s ban homework, I don’t have a teaching degree so I shouldn’t have to sit beside my child at 8pm at night begging him to do his homework.

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    • Anonymous

      You don’t need a teaching degree, if your child is unable to do his homework he should be able to tell his teacher. If he wont do his homework……

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      • Kris2040

        I rarely did my homework. Mum never begged me to do it. I knew if I didn’t I’d get in trouble at school for not handing something in on time and cop the consequences. Mum knew that too and there’s no way she would have defended me for not doing homework to my teachers!

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      • Homework Ho Hum...

        Last year we had great difficulty getting our son, 8, to do his homework – between his active social life and sporting commitments it was such hard work. We didn’t have much trouble with bigger more interesting assignments, but on the day to day tasks it was a struggle to get him motivated.

        His teacher came up with a great solution – he would come to school 15 minutes early and complete it there with teacher assistance if needed.

        Parents and teachers need to think outside the box, realize not one size fits all when it comes to students and their families and work TOGETHER to ensure a decent education for their child.

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        • Kris2040

          How does an eight year old have “an active social life”?

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          • Homework Ho Hum...

            By playing with siblings, cousins, kids in the street and other friends of course. I make time for him to do this because kids need time to be kids – away from school, sport and whatever else they have going on in their world.

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            • lucindainthesky

              So instead of getting him to come inside from playing 15 minutes earlier to do his homework in the kitchen while you cook dinner, you let the teacher do it all with him before school? Why don’t you admit that you just didn’t want to do it with him? Own it.

              15 minutes in the evening is not too much homework for an 8yr old. It’s called teaching your children about having responsibilities as well as ensuring you know what he is learning at school and picking up on any difficulties that the teacher may have missed.

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    • Anonymous

      Sitting beside your child and making them do homework is not teaching them the work. That should’ve been done at school. Making them do the work is parenting. Just like making making them take the bins out or fill the dishwasher. If they have a problem with the homework and they show they have attempted it then I’m sure most teachers will be willing to help the next day. I’ve never punished a student who attempted homework but didnt understand. By the way, define parenting? Doesn’t that involve teaching?

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    • Anonymous

      You’re kidding right…? Sitting beside…? Begging..? The irony of your name is not lost on me…Achild – Pffft!

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    • Nulligravida

      I grew up in a low-socio economic suburb to poor parents but I am of Asian hertiage. My mother *made* me do my homework and gave me extra if I did not find it to do. We were not allowed to watch morning TV before school and TV at night was only after homework was done. Yeah, I know, sounds like a stereotype but, fair-dinkum and kid you not, that is what she did.

      So, in grade 3, I wrote out my times tables and recited them. My parents bought a cheap encyclopedia when I was 11 and we kids were encouraged to read ALL the articles.

      Neither parent was teritary-educated but they would check my homework and never did my homework for me.

      My parents were the ones who thanked the teachers at teacher-parent nights.

      Yeah, sure, sounds really dorky but I did not struggle at school like so many of my fellow students.

      Today I am in my forties. My teacher friends tell me that they can always pick the parents of their students — and not based on appearance — but simply by the parents’ attitude to learning.

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  9. MMguest

    My partner is a teacher and I’m am sooo very proud of him!

    There are quite a lot of negative comments on here! If people could only see how much work goes into planning each and every lesson. He spent a lot of the weekend working, planning lessons, learning a new song on the guitar, so his kids will become interested in music and actually want to sing and participate. I think you would even be surprised at the amount of money teachers spend on their classrooms, educational ipad apps, supplies (yes, I know it’s a tax deduction) but still, so far it is proving to be quite a lot of money, that we will not get back until July. He is constantly thinking of new innovative ideas and has proved very popular with both students, parents and other teachers. Perhaps it’s the smart, young-ish, male, artistic, talented thing he’s got going ;)
    Although, one thing that astounded us both today was, he had a meeting with a parent this morning. She told him that her child has a standing appointment every week during school times…..for tutoring! This makes perfect sense, right?! Taking your child out of school to pay for tutoring. Why not use all school time and have additional tutoring before or after school?
    Thank you to all the teachers out there.

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  10. Brand new teacher

    This post has come at a really interesting time for me, I have just had my very first day of teaching experience. I’ve moved across the state to live on my own and teach in the country. I feel quite stressed and overwhelmed right now about the planning, assessing, organising that needs to be done. I feel like there is so much to do and so little time and yet the students haven’t even started yet! I really enjoyed this post but it has also stressed me out as I feel like there is so much on my plate and that’s BEFORE any parents have come to me complaining, asking advice, behavioural issues! I am sure it is just the (hopefully) normal nerves and jitters of any new job feeling a bit freaked out and I hope to get on top of things but man even with 4 years of uni, although we learnt a lot, I can tell this year is going to be one HUGE learning curve! I hope I don’t sound like a bad teacher before school starts it is all just sort of becoming clearer and clearer how much work is to be done! I hope I have some parents similar to the amazing ones here who talk to their teachers and have reasonable expectations!

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    • rainbow

      good-luck! nerves are very normal, just take each day at a time.

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    • Dreamer

      Uni gives you the licence but you’ll learn what you really need to know about teaching in the classroom! Good luck – you’ll be awesome – and don’t forget to ask for help and advice when you need it!

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  11. Mickie

    Some of those comments on The HS story are just feral. No wonder kids have no respect for teachers.

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  12. Elizabeth

    I’m saying this as a future high school English/history teacher… teachers have a role in helping their students to learn life skills and become good people, and parents have a role in helping their children to meet the (sometimes arbitrary) competency requirements set by various levels of government.

    If you don’t want to have to be a role model, a guide and potentially in some situations a pseudo-parent to children, don’t become a teacher. If you don’t want to spend some of your downtime helping with homework and assignments and reading to your kids, then don’t become a parent.

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    • Anonymous

      I dont think parents are suggesting that they don’t want to teach their children. But when the kids are at home I want to teach them my own curriculum. The role of a parent is to have the time and the right to raise their child not to be bogged down with homework that the teacher wants us to do. How would the teachers like it if parents sent parenting work to the school for teachers to implement… oh wait, thats what the article is addressing. It works both ways!

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  13. Tracey Groombridge

    A bit of parenting bashing without solutions just more of what the world needs. Teacher’s do a great job but exceptional teachers do more then the three R’s. I wonder how much this article is based on evidence (rather than just your observations from behind the desk Rick?
    Was there really Victorian parents who brought in 200 pages of their children’s Facebook transcripts and said ‘I’ll leave this for you to sort out’, or was there just one parent in the whole of Australia. I love Mummamia but Rick don’t wrtie like you work for Today tonight.

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    • Rick Morton

      Well for a start, I worked in media for the Department of Education in QLD and then as a media advisor to the Minister. So I’m more than well appraised of the ‘evidence’ of the difficult parents I refer to. Of course good teachers do more than the three Rs but should parents expect they will take over their job completely? Should parents just hand all their responsibilities over to the teachers? Of course not. That’s what this piece speaks to.

      Not sure what your issue is with the piece unless you think parents should unload more of their roles on to teachers?

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  14. Kylie2

    I come from a family which includes several teachers and I agree with this article completely. There are a few slack teachers, just as there are poor performers in every profession. There are also many dedicated teachers who work really hard to educate our kids.

    Sadly there are children of all ages in Australia who are almost impossible to educate. A member of my family teaches reading recovery in a disadvantaged area. Many of the children she teaches are partially deaf because of recurrent, untreated ear infections. Several have almost no speech because their teeth have rotted and fallen out due to poor diet and neglect. Several of these children deal with regular domestic violence, yet parents are quick to blame the school and the teachers when their children struggle to learn the basics.

    It’s just tragic, and the tragedy repeats when they have children of their own.

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    • looweez

      Kylie, my sister teaches in an area in which there are many “7 year babies”. Benefits cut out when the youngest child turns 7, so another child will be produced. These are the kids who come to school not knowing their colours, because nobody has ever actually sat with them and talked or read. Quite often, the only interaction they get at home is, “Get out and don’t bother me”, or words to that effect. These kids struggle because they have had none of the usual activities most kids take for granted … sitting round a dinner table making conversation, sitting on a parent’s lap with a favourite story book, going to a local park for fun.

      These kids also struggle behaviourally, and these parents will spend years blaming the school and the teachers for their child’s inability to behave / socialise effectively / learn. They often do this very aggressively – there are restraining orders on a number of the parents!

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  15. Natasha

    I think at the end of the day if you have a child who is not well behaved in class, disruptive, tends to bully other children, there are things going in the home environment. Most times it is parents who neglect their children, they are emotionally dismissed, lacking love or attention. Parents need to lift their game. You produced them , be a responsible parent and love and nuture them. Spent time with them, allow them to thrive. Otherwise they become the child that no one wants to have around, in or out of the classroom..

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  16. Gin & Tonic

    I am of the camp of “it takes a village to raise a child”. I actually disagree with this article because I think teachers and parents are a team. There should be no line on what I teach and what you teach.

    Everyone in a child’s life has an important part to play in their development. That includes parents, teachers, and anyone who spends time including carers and grandparents.

    Education is more than learning facts and concepts. Teachers have children for a large part of the day in a different setting to at home so if they arent teaching children how to behave in a group setting, eg how to work in groups, how to speak up, how to listen, then there is something wrong.

    I expect to support my children with their school work by supervising homework, reading to them, helping them plan their projects, being a sounding board for their ideas, talking through problems and giving help if they need to do extra work.

    Likewise I expect their teachers to support the things that I am teaching them at home, like manners,respectfulness, sharing, and listening. I also expect teachers to identify learning problems that I might not notice in a home setting because I have nothing to compare it to.

    We both have a role in teaching children to be independant.

    I have a real problem with people suggesting that it is working parents who are leaving everything to teachers. In my experience this is not the case. Sure there are busy working parents who dont, but there are plenty of non working mothers who dont either.

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    • Anonymous

      Could not agree more with your statements. It is unfortunate that not only do we have some parents working or not woroking but also teachers who fail to undersatnd this concept!

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    • Kathy W

      I don’t think this article implies teachers and parents are not a team.

      I believe it refers to some parents’ expectations being above and beyond a teacher’s responsibility – for example asking the teacher to ‘fix’ the Facebook situation. Another example – in my own classroom I expect courtesy and respect from a student to myself and his/her peers. I would not expect to have to “teach” courtesy and respect. That is a family’s responsibility. I would, however, certainly build on and develop these skills within the classroom.

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      • Miss Maya

        As a teacher I agree that parents and teachers need to form a team. However I think this article is referring to the increasing demands placed on teachers to be the parent in a child’s life. Last year alone I had parents ask me to help get their child to sleep at night, get their child to eat vegetables, take their child to soccer practise, tell them they had to do their homework at night, tell them to listen to their mother, remind them to be nice to their brother/ sister.

        I taught them how to blow their nose, tie their shoe laces, wear a hat in the sun, use manners and many other skills that should be taught at home.

        And I also had to teach them the things I should be teaching them….

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        • ber

          Having worked in schools the last two years, I also wish to gently point out that, while a mother may have between one and, let’s say, 3 or 4 of children (is the nuclear family 2.4 kids in Australia?), the teacher — especially in a state school — has 30 kids to look after.
          A single teacher cannot be expected to go above and beyond their role of teacher every day for every one of those students, even though they probably wish they could.

          Every teacher I know takes the responsibility of their job very seriously. Most teachers I know find their job significantly stressful.

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    • Anonymous

      “Likewise I expect their teachers to support the things that I am teaching them at home, like manners,respectfulness, sharing, and listening. I also expect teachers to identify learning problems that I might not notice in a home setting because I have nothing to compare it to.”

      If only all parents could have this point of view!
      Unfortunately not all parents view it as their role to teach their children “manners,respectfulness, sharing, and listening”.
      I do not know of a single teacher who does not value these teachings. Schools are places where teachers strive to instill these teachings. I take offense to implication that we teachers do not support parents in the teaching of these values.

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    • KatK

      As a teacher I totally agree that parents and teachers need to work together. Unfortunately it’s the parents you need to see the most who never answer their phone or return phone calls or come to parent teacher interviews.

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  17. Another Teacher

    I’ve had some great parents over the years I’ve been teaching, parents who have raised beautiful children and on top of that were always willing to lend a hand when needed. But then there’s the parents who want you to fix everything with their child, and today I had a parent of a 12 year old ask me if I could get the private bus company to run on time – on Friday the bus got stuck in horrendous traffic and that clearly wasn’t good enough . . .

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  18. hms

    I teach special ed in a mainstream highschool. In my core class of 7 that I teach for literacy and numeracy, I’ve 2 students turn up with no books, pens, etc this year. The excuse of one was that he’s leaving at the end of the term so mum didn’t want to spend the money for two schools, the other was that we’ll get it next payday. Neither set of parents are impaired in any way themselves. I have provided boooks, pens and often food for my students.

    After I refused to stop her child attending sport for something he did on the weekend, one parent told me that if I didn’t help her at home, then she wasn’t helping me with anything to do with school.

    This type of atttiude is common. Fellow teachers have been told to f*@k off when they ring about non-submission of assessment etc.

    Other parents, of course, are wonderful and make my job so much easier by supporting and reinforcing what is happening at school as I reinforce what they are doing at home.

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    • tastebud

      I’m not a teacher (nor are any of my children are at school yet) but the examples in your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs make me sooo angry grrrrrrr

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  19. James Richards

    I am a vocational trainer/educator of commercial cooks and as yet I have no children at school level, though I have recently read the end of school reports for my 2 nephews who are attending primary school and for whom I hold a great deal of responsibility and desire to nurture.
    I must say I was somewhat perplexed at the lack of individual direction the reports took. Only 2 major components of the curriculum were aimed towards the child’s actual ability, performance, overall competence, and social/life skills, the other areas were generic statements of what the “Students” as a body completed through the year/term. I am sure these statements were read by many a parent who were left wondering is my child competent in this area? Are they interacting with their peers as they should be? Are there any key areas I/we as parents should be doing to assist our child’s development?
    On the other foot there were probably many a parent who read the reports without even an inkling of care as to their child’s development and the efforts and levels to which the teachers and staff had gone to.
    Understandably teachers can become frustrated with the parents and vice versa. The sagas begin to unfold, unruly behaviour from a student/child, incomplete homework, lack of discipline at school or at home.
    Therefore I ask….should we not consider the most logical of all learning principles?
    We all learn differently.
    All children, like adults are different. We have different needs, expectations, abilities and most of all we all learn differently. Is it therefore not important to have an open and well versed relationship between teacher and parent/s as the child develops, where all parties have an agreed consensus on the best approach to developing not only academia abilities but the ability to interact as a human being in this diverse world in which we live?
    As a vocational trainer I am in continuous communication with student and employer (aka parent) regarding the students’ abilities and progress through learning. In VET terms we call this feedback, together we discuss the appropriate approach to develop the student’s skills and knowledge further and mutually agree on a plan of action.
    The passing of the buck must stop, Parents and Teachers need to take responsibility for the child on an even playing ground, only then will we begin to see true education within our school systems.

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    • feyla

      My son had a teacher ONCE (he is now in year 6) that called me when his behaviour deteriorated, to discuss background and strategies. She gave me her email address, so that I could keep in touch with her even though I couldn’t get there for school pickup (usual time non-working parents have the chance to speak to teachers) and was always open in communication. He loved her, and thrived.

      Never before or since has a teacher been willing to communicate with me by phone or email. First time I get to find out there are problems, is the school report. A little late to let me know he is struggling with something!

      I would love to give his teachers more support, but without an open avenue of communication, without any feedback outside reports (and thus, without me knowing what support is needed) how can I?

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      • F

        I find that terrible that the teachers won’t communicate via phone or email. At my school, we all give out our email address and will happily return a phone call. We also have diaries to communicate with the parents.
        Does the school offer parent teacher interviews?

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        • Kathy W

          It’s not as easy for teachers as you might think.

          If I have an issue I feel needs raising with a parent, I have to go to my KLA Leader first for approval, then go to the student’s Year Advisor for their approval. If I am given the go-ahead, I must phone the parent in school time and document every word of the conversation in my diary. This is our school policy and it may be the case in other high schools.

          I am more than happy to speak with parents but as you can see, it involves a lot of protocol.

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          • F

            That is ridiculous. Do they not trust your judgement as a teacher or has there been some issues in the past that has caused this?

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            • Kathy W

              Why is this ridiculous?

              As I said above – this is my school’s policy for ALL staff.

              There are 75 staff at my school and any one student has 8-10 teachers. If every teacher was calling a parent about a particular issue it would get out of control and drive the parents nuts.

              Often the buck will stop with the year advisor who will call the parent on behalf of several teachers who may have the same issue.

              And diarising any conversation with a parent is protection for us. We have evidence we made the call, and a record of what was discussed prevents any future misunderstandings.

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      • Coastal Mum

        That simply isn’t good enough. I had my child’s teacher tell me (as a working parent) I needed to be “at school more, because that’s what most of the other parents do.” I suggested regular phone calls, and the response there was “It goes to voicemail, and I don’t do voicemail”. Then we tried email, I only got anything from her when something was “bad” or “wrong” in her opinion. I made formal complaints with administration, the communication did not improve, but the teacher took leave for the last term of the year which benefited my child to no end.

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  20. Shan

    Great to see another well written piece from you, Rick.

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  21. Jay

    It’s my fond hope that my kids’ teachers will concentrate on the teaching…I don’t need any help with the parenting, but I do need their expertise for learning to read, write and do maths. I watched a friend’s child struggle on with reading whilst a good chunk of his class day was spent on topics like nutrition, road safety etc. By off-loading all these family and community type teaching responsibilities to teachers, we are obviously reducing the time teachers can spent on their core tasks.

    And I ‘m with the homework haters. Pointless pandering to a group of vocal parents IMO. Robbing children of outdoor playtime, music practice, cooking etc etc.

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    • Nora

      Most teachers would agree with you on the homework I think! (Well the ones I know anyway)

      Learning at school is so much more than just reading, writing and maths though don’t you think? I’d be a bit sad if that’s all teachers focused on.

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    • lucindainthesky

      Unfortunately, right from Prep/Kinder teachers are mostly now required to cover a stupid number of curriculum areas for varying timeframes every week, so eliminating SOSE, science and art units etc is not an option. Teachers can only deal with this the best way they can.

      In terms of your friends child, this may not be the amount of time spent on literacy at school, it could be poor teaching strategies or ones that arent working on this child, it could be that your friend is not spending enough time on reading at home (yes parents, reading is hard yakka, it needs to be done every night at home, teachers have limited resources for one on one reading with your child every day at school), it could be that the child’s behaviour is lacking at school and creating a barrier to learning, or it could be that the child just has a lower ability (or a learning disorder) than other kids. There are lots of reasons a child can be behind in reading that may have nothing to do with the quantity of time spent on literacy in the classroom. I’d ask your friend if most of the class is behind or just their kid… that will speak volumes.

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    • James Richards

      It seems your the type of parent that will happily state that it is the teachers role to do this and your role to do that……have you not considered what you would do if your child could not attend school for any particular reason?…..who would you rely on for educational support then?

      Education is ongoing and constant.. try to remeber the phrase…..”you learn something new every day” ….this is true wether the child is at school or in the home or in the playground.

      My four year old child just the other day saw a sign on the wall and said to me look daddy C ..H…E..M.. L…S…T , that spells chemist. I corrected her on the letter “l” and told her it was an “i”. She is only able to do this because her mother, her child care teachers and myself spend the time to teach her how to read.

      Dont be one of the people who pass the buck!

      I should also note education is not about missed playtime, include learning with fun games and make it interactive….”I spy with my little eye” or “count the number of steps on the slide” get the child to want to learn…the earlier this is done the better!

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      • Jay

        James, I am not sure which one of us you think is passing the buck. Me presumably. I definitely think reading is part of home life. But I don’t need it to be assigned by anyone. Likewise, how is playtime not a learning time? Kids learn loads in all the non-homework activities I mentioned. I consider that as a parent I have overall responsibility for my child’s learning and sending them to school is only part of this. I object to the idea that learning experiences have to formal and assigned. I am going to spare you tales of my child’s brilliance…on this occasion.

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        • Anonymous

          Jay, a quick response t o your question “Likewise, how is playtime not a learning time?”

          Please read the last few lines of my reply again….carefuly this time Jay. It clearly states that learning should be fun.

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    • cel

      I agree, as both a parent and teacher, I tend to think of homework as nothing more than a burden and a chore. As a student however, I didn’t mind doing homework; but that’s because I was competitive and actually thrived on learning; which I have my parents to thank for. I have always encouraged my students (secondary) to read, read, read as ongoing homework. And, to read stuff that they are interested in. Time and time again it has been clearly made evident to me that those who struggle, simply do not ever read (except for perhaps via social networking) and wonder why they struggle! It’s hard to motivate students who have not had that early love of learning operating from day one within their households. The primary school reading sets that my son has been bringing home have been quite dull, but that accompanied with our regular reading at home; he is now kicking goals. I fully support what his Primary teachers have been trying to do, but the ‘love of learning’ needs to begin at home!

      I’d like to add that the term”homework” has a negative connotation. As long as educators still believe that sending a student home with a rubbish novel that they don’t enjoy or some aged old worksheet; it will always remain a burden and never taken seriously.

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    • KatK

      My school decided on a no homework policy and then we had parents ringing and complaining that we weren’t giving their children homework.

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  22. Flowers in the spring

    When I first started teaching I was gobsmacked by the number of times I heard on on tv “they should be teaching X in schools”. So much of what we do in schools isn’t teaching the curriculum so much as teaching people the skills they need to be competent members of society. I love my job and I love working with teenagers but abusive phone calls and meetings with parents is not what I signed up for.

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  23. anon

    I’m not a teacher nor are my children old enough for school. I had small amounts of homework in upper primary school and at high school most of my teachers assigned homework with the comment “i’m not going to check if you do the homework.but at exam time we will all know who did” this then made it clear that homework was about revision and made it the student’s choice which I think was great.
    as for who is teaching who…..teachers are obviously doing a great job as everyone here who comments can read and write!

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  24. Liz

    Great article Rick.

    As a current SAHM, on leave from high school teaching, I am seeing a general lack of knowledge from new mums about what skills their children need to have acquired before starting school. Why is this I wonder? Is this issue contributing to a push for children to start school later?, a trend I am noting particularly with boys.

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    • Rick Morton

      I’ve also noticed a growing ‘let kids be kids for longer’ trend, which I found odd because you can still be learning in a play-based environment, I would have thought.

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      • Axe

        This is one of my pet peeves! Play based learning is important and developmentally appropriate practise. NSW kindergarten curriculum today does not allow for this. Many little boys in particular, struggle with the demands of their first year at school because they are not developmentally ready for the way school is today. I am a recently retired teacher and horrified at the kindergarten of today.
        As far as other things go, it would be good if we didn’t have to find time for bike ed etc in primary school as that is something that could be handled within the family. Not a fan of homework either. Especially not a fan of projects being sent home either unless the skills to do them have been taught first.
        Found some old reports of mine recently. So straightforward, a mark for each subject, a place in class and a personal comment, one of which said that it was “obvious that she comes from a good home”. Funny! Such a comment would never be allowed today and your report is likely to be long and boring, leaving you none the wiser about the the aspects of school that I as a parent would want to know such as social development, confidence etc.

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        • Rick Morton

          Oh you speak so much sense I just want to kiss you! But I dare say that contravenes a few early development lessons about respecting ‘our space’ so I will just say THANKS!

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        • KatK

          Yes the reports I get asked to write are ridiculously long and wordy. It’s what the school wants & requires me to do and they take so long for me to do. Yet is that even what parents want? As a parent I don’t.

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    • Lu

      I think the trend is pushed by the competition in parenting that is abundant today. Nobody wants their child to be the youngest, last to learn their sight words, smallest etc. But realistically SOMEBODIES child has to! Now it seems to be the kids whose birthdays fall in November and December, because after that they are deemed too young to start school if they havent already turned 5 so they are held back. From my experience, as a mum of 4 children who has been around schools for a fair whole now, the kids who cause most of the trouble (for their peers and the staff) are the boys who have been held back when they should have been sent to school before their 5th birthday rather than starting school on the cusp of turning 6. They are wild and really disruptive and likely would have benefitted from the structure of school earlier.

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      • Axe

        Totally disagree. Those boys will benefit from being allowed to mature and be developmentally ready. As far as the structure of school etc goes, this again is possibly the point of the article. Parents have a role in teaching children to sit at a table, socialise well with others and general manners and behaviour. An older boy should have the maturity to be able to sit, listen and concentrate for long enough. If they are wild in the playground, it says more about their upbringing to me than anything else.

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        • lucindainthesky

          rubbish. Boys tend to be boisterous and full of energy, and at times have great difficulty sitting still no matter their upbringing. Lots and lots of boys (and children in general) whom are angels at home, will be disruptive at school. Kids vibe off each other and want to do the things that interest them not learn the letters of the alphabet. Not very many kids are well behaved all the time, and at the age they start school, their concentration spans are short. The going formula is age + 2 minutes – so 7 minutes for a 5 year old. And heaps struggle in the beginning because school is very different socially than home. I think it is a fallacy that children who misbehave at school are victims of poor parenting. Some of the time yes (or there are problems at home, divorce, domestic violence etc), but lots of times they are just naughty because they are little kids and that is where they are at developmentally.

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          • Axe

            Which is precisely my point. Boys should not be sent to school earlier to get the structure, they are not developmentally ready for the kindergarten of today.

            Also, just because you disagree doesn’t mean what I am saying is rubbish. It means you disagree and I am wary of those who make such pronouncements.

            I am assuming you are a teacher of some sort. Just for the record , I have been teaching primary for 31 years, and have additional qualifications in both Early Childhood and Special Education and worked in an advisory capacity to preschools for several years as well as in the homes of families with children with additional needs. I also am a mother of 4. This doesn’t mean I’m right but my opinion probably isn’t “rubbish”

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            • Lu

              So how do you explain the boys who are almost 12 months older than their peers at school running wild then, if their younger male classmates can behave?

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  25. bee

    Amen Rick!!

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  26. Anon this time

    I’m a high school teacher in a very low socio-economic area.

    This is just a snapshot of what happened to me on ONE particular day last year:
    - A student told me to ‘f*ck off..just cause you’re a teacher you can’t tell me what to do…go and get f*cked’
    - This same student then pushed a desk over onto my feet
    - Playground duty recess – I had a student approach me smiling and waving with one hand, while his other hand was down his pants, his pants were unzipped and he was waggling a finger through his fly. His finger had a penis drawn on it.
    - Playground duty lunch…was supervising the canteen line when a group of students walking past shoved themselves into me and I went sprawling onto the filthy concrete. They ran off laughing.
    - Period 5 – tried to confiscate a phone as per school rules. Again told ‘f*ck off you can’t touch my stuff, my mum will get you’
    - After school. Called a family to enquire as to the whereabouts of their son who hadn’t been at school for two weeks – was told by mother ‘get f*cked leave us alone’

    This was ONE day. And it was not out of the ordinary.

    These kids have ‘parents’ at home who show disrespect to everyone – each other, their kids, the police, the checkout lady in Woolworths – so here we are fighting an uphill battle trying to foster respect and learning in the classroom when their is nothing of the sort going on at home.

    I don’t work there any more.

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    • Sah

      Anon this time, you must be hard as nails to have worked there! I’m scared of teenagers.

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      • Anon this time

        Sah, Teenagers are amazing – I love their enthusiasm, loyalty, energy and passion.
        Sadly, the majority of the kids at this particular school had parents incapable of raising them into responsible adults – and therefore this fell back on us. If a student was swearing at me I would deliberately lower my voice and say to them ‘I’m speaking respectfully to you, I would like you to do the same for me’.
        I wish parents would ‘raise their own damn kids’ but at this school some were sure doing a terrible job raising my students.

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        • Axe

          I have taught in primary school in an area like that many years ago. Your day resonates with me! When I first went to that school I asked to be put on playground duty with a male ( I am female) as I was often on at lunchtime with a tiny lady as short as the children and if fights broke out, it was terrible and many of the year 6 boys would not respond to female teachers in that situation, sadly. These kids were tough as nails and probably reflected the environment they came from. When you are new to a school like that, unless you teach that grade and have a rapport with them, then life is very difficult. It was also a school where teachers would come running from everywhere if they heard raised adult voices as it often meant a teacher was being abused by a parent and it wasn’t always verbal only. Thank goodness, I am retired. I stayed there for 7 years though, by choice.

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          • Anon for this

            Yes, Axe. The school I referred to in my original post now has very short breaks. Lunch is only half an hour. They found that a 40-45 minute lunch break just gave the kids time to mooch, get restless, torment each other and then bins would go flying and the PE staff would bolt from their staffroom to intervene before the kids almost killed each other.

            And yet…when you try and talk to the parents…the boy in the penis incident’s parents were called and they just shrugged and said I ‘had no sense of humour’. Yes…we all laugh at sexual harrassment.

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            • Axe

              That just reminded me of the year I did teach year 6 at that school. After a wet lunch when classes were combined, I came back to class and found orange peel on the floor. My class were very happy to name the boy responsible in the class next door. I called him in and askedhim to put it in the bin. This caused enough loss of face to him that that weekend he broke into my classroom. He was a big boy and used to come to school wearing a black T shirt that said Bad Company and wear a silver marijuana leaf earring in one ear. What does that tell you about the parents?!

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    • Jude

      I start uni in 2 weeks to become a high school teacher. Your comment has terrified me. But I’m sure as you say the area your school was in contributed to such appalling behaviour. I hope you are in a better school and are enjoying your job.

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      • nairda37

        I work in a similar difficult school. In my first year I had to call the fire brigade because a student started a fire in one of the portables after school one day and three burnt down. Don’t be afraid of it. When you start out I REALLY recommend you start at a difficult school. Learn the hard way and learn to teach properly. There are plenty of moron kids and most are beyond help but there are good ones in the mix who deserve a quality education. If all the good teachers decide to go to easier schools, then all the dodgy teachers will be left to fill the positions no one else wants…

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        • marsupial

          Totally agree! We have a very high staff turnover at my school and in my first year I turned up every day terrified of what the kids were going to do that day, but I love it now. There are definitely still days where I’m tearing my hair out, but all kids deserve a good education, whether they are in a tiny remote school or an expensive private school. Once kids realise you do actually care it’s amazing what they can do.
          And I think all parents want what’s best for their kids, even if they don’t seem to know how to go about it.

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      • Anon this time

        Jude – sorry to terrify you!
        The majority of high schools are not like this. I’m now at a wonderful Catholic high school where the students respect the staff and enjoy learning. I am loving my job.
        However, I would disagree with Nairda37. Try not to start your career at a difficult school. Gain experience and classroom management skills in a ‘good’ school and then take this experience into a difficult school if you wish.
        Starting your career in a difficult school could break you. I’ve seen it happen to two of my colleagues who were new graduates. Despite all the professional development courses on behaviour management they attended, they were way out of their depth with seriously behaviourally challenged kids. They quit teaching after only one year.
        Yes, difficult schools need good teachers – but not brand new ones who are still learning their craft. IMO. Good luck!

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        • lucindainthesky

          I very much agree! I had a shocking prac experience last year (in my 4th year) and I believe building up behaviour management skills in a less stressful environment is invaluable. Sadly I think teacher education programs are a little lacking and there is not enough time in schools to adequately build up strong behaviour management strategies before going out on your own. There is so much to get your head around as a new teacher that I think the added stress if you aren’t feeling entirely confident can be enough to tip you over the edge and drive you away from teaching.

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        • Axe

          Ha, I agree with you again! When I went to that school, I had been teaching for 5 years and I was “experienced” Everybody else was brand new. I’m glad I knew what normal was before I went there and had had the opportunity to learn in schools with established teachers. looking back, I think I did a good job but it could have been a lot better if I had had the wisdom of maturity and had been a parent myself. I often wonder about some of the children I taught there, particularly a boy who I now think was depressed. I already had to keep a body chart of him marking his bruises and the other kids, while poor themselves, used to tease him about his shoes. I just didn’t have the knowledge that I have now. He used to have to mop the kitchen floor every morning and his mother used to buy chinese for her and her friends and give the kids baked beans.He was responsible for his younger siblings. He was one of so many at that school.

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        • nairda37

          Yeah I guess it’s not for everyone. I definitely recommend starting in a government school though at the very least. You learn to make the most of resources rather than being spoilt for choice. The good thing is, at dodgy schools it seems staff are very supportive, especially if you are new. If you make the switch later with experience to a school where management is tough, I doubt people will be as willing to help you out. It’s almost a completely different set of skills. I recommend everyone tries both at least for a few years. I guess I was lucky that one of the schools in my rounds was a similar difficult government school so I knew what I was in for. Don’t be fooled that one school is easier than another though. These are gross generalisations, but dodgy schools are tough with crowd control and crazy kids and moron parents, good schools are tough with academic pressures from principals and students, and although the parents may not be missing teeth, they think they know better than you and will let you know that. Either way it’s a difficult job. Just different.

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          • Kris2040

            I’m a sink or swim kind of person, and I think that sending me into a “scary” school when I finish uni (I’m enrolling for Primary on Wednesday!!) I’d be OK. I’m pretty difficult to rattle though. And I’m a LOT older than kids coming straight out of school and through uni then going into tough schools.

            Then again, I figure if it’s all you know, you just kind of deal. I dropped out of the B Ed course I started years ago because they didn’t send people in to schools in front of kids for any decent amount of time until 3rd year.

            It could really turn some people off the vocation, but it could also really affirm others in their choice. Tricky!

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      • forgetthenameiuseonhere

        Jude, I taught in public high schools for 5 years. It was not the kids that caused me to move on in the end, but the complete lack of respect shown by the Dept of Ed. It is so hard to become a permanent member of staff, I just got sick of being on a yearly contract, doing the same work, with the same responsibilities as the permanent staff, and a fair few of them were happy to rest on their laurels til retirement. Now I work in education but not in a school and guess what?? Still not permanent! LOL The kids can be great I still have the best memories (and good bye cards) of my Togan/Pacific Islander students, so cheeky, so friendly awesome kids.

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    • Anonymous

      Ahh, yes. I also taught a few students with really distruptive behaviour whose parents had an equally low opinion of the school, especially if they were ex- students. And not just that school, but any school. What chance has a kid got when their over friendly, non- boundary giving parents constantly tell their kids how they much they hated school and still do!

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      • Kris2040

        That really pisses me off when people do that. Just because it was your experience doesn’t mean it’ll be your kid’s experience. And just because your kid might love school doesn’t make you dumb or them a nerd. It’s just different.

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  27. Mary

    I once taught a girl in grade 2 who was the oldest of 4 children. She was a really lovely girl, got on well with her friends and worked really hard in the classroom. The mother would come up to the classroom and blame me for her apparent terrible behaviour at home after school. I understand that children can carry stress from one environment to the next but how can I possibly police and comment on behaviours in their private home after school hours. I have no idea how the family are interracting at home.

    I’ve also had a couple of occassions where parents have complained that I haven’t set enough homework for the kids to get them through the weekend. They would tell me the kids were bored at home and this was my fault. Apparently t’s too expensive to take them to the movies all weekend, so to remedy the situation they wanted me to send school work home so that they can say the teacher says you have to do this on the weekend.

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  28. Neogogue

    Many thoughtful comments here. The article reflects one of the many challenges for educators and parents… And students. Let’s not forget that the students, the children of these alleged neglectful parents, are also partners in this process. Research shows us that when you involve students in the discussions around learning and social expectations (virtual and actual), more meaningful improvements can be made. Despite the perceived lack of discipline from adults, young people often have advanced and complex understandings of how we ought to relate to other. Involve the students in this discussion.

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  29. Raraluna

    I don’t think that anyone would ever argue that teachers are overpaid.

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    • Rick Morton

      Believe me, I’ve heard it. From many people who were being very serious.

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      • Anonymous

        I’m a teacher- my husband often tells me my wages are great for what I do. He is fixated on the “12 weeks paid holiday a year”. However, those evenings when i’m marking essays at midnight, or come home wanting to drown my frustrations in a bottle of wine, having been sworn at and threatened in a classroom, he understands the pay is only ok!

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        • Olivia

          My dad tried to push me into teaching because ‘they get paid so well and they get three months holidays and they only have to work until 3pm! ‘. I knew enough from just being a student to know there was alot more to it than that.

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          • Kathy W

            And then there are the casual/relief teachers who are paid on a daily basis – meaning they don’t get paid for three months of the year.
            Their higher daily rate is meant to compensate for lack of holiday pay, but it’s not that much higher – and going without any money at all for three months is really difficult.

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        • Christine

          I’m not a teacher but a speech pathologist at a specialist school. I admire all staff members working at schools because I know how challenging it can be! My partner is also fixated on the “12 weeks paid holiday a year” as well, but then realises I also have to deal with the behavioural issues that may occur (been sworn and/or spat at, been bitten- thank goodness, this doesn’t happen)… saying that, I do enjoy the challenge and I find my work very inspiring!

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  30. HF

    I had some fantastic teachers in both primary and secondary school.

    As two of my high school friends mothers were teachers at the time I got to see what went on behind the scenes, a lot of hard work that wasn’t always paid for or appreciated.

    Another high school teacher had such a passion literature that it really began my lover affair with books and everything that comes with them. I still think about her often.

    I had a fantastic primary school teacher who saw that I was struggling with the everyday lessons and decided to start a philosophy class. I excelled (as did other students), won a end of year prize and went into high school an extremely confident student, instead of one that was falling behind.

    I could go on.

    A bit off topic but I have the upmost respect for teachers and all the hard work they do.

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  31. afd

    Yes, absolutely Rick! I am a trained teacher (graduated, then promptly became SAHM, so no experience – yet), and this was a very commonly discussed concern in seminars, etc.

    Perhaps people’s half-understanding of ‘in loco parentis’ has contributed to confusion here. It is a long-standing principle that teachers play a parental role to some extent – in school, during school hours. This is the principle by which various things should be OK. In younger years, children may seek comfort/hugs from the kindergarten teacher if scared or hurt. Fine, and sensible child protection policies usually provide staff with clear guidance in this area. In older years, school rules and discussions with teachers – formal and informal – probably affect the child’s moral and behavioural attitudes. This is both a privilege and responsibility for teachers.

    But absolutely, this can be taken too far! Unless young children are special needs, kindergarten teachers can expect to not have anything to do with toileting for their students – and yet, I’ve heard otherwise. Similarly, students’ broader social understandings in high school are far more dependent on the parents and their peers than on anything teachers do – although teachers do their best.

    I still remember the regular saying that appeared in my primary school newsletter in the late 80s, even though I was not yet 10 – “Parents, you are your child’s first and most important educator” (or was it ‘teacher’? same diff) It was a gentle but clear way of pointing out that parents cannot, and should not, abdicate their responsibilities for parenting, passing them on to the school. Obviously I have come to have a fuller understanding of the point in subsequent years!

    However, as a footnote, don’t be too quick to blame parents. It is an unfortunate reality (although more prevalent overseas, apparently) that some parents (and it does tend to follow cultural / socio-economic trends) do not feel a *right* to ‘intrude’ on a “teacher’s job”. They’re conditioned to see teachers as the experts, and themselves as ignorant and unqualified. They think they’re doing the best for their kids by ‘opting out’, and simply focussing on earning the money for the kids’ room / board / education – so, ending up too busy at work to engage in events such as school open days/nights, or parent-teacher interviews. This attitude can be a product of the parents’ own upbringing, or negative school experience. Understanding and empowering encouragement, rather than blame and threats, are necessary here.

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  32. Anonforthis

    My husband is a primary teacher and, I feel, a darn good one. The amount of negative comments people say about teachers is just disgusting…overpaid babysitters, those who can do, those who can’t teach, 9-3 job, you just do it for the holidays and disgusting comments about males teaching primary which I will not repeat here.
    If he was a babysitter I think that you would find with up to 30 kids for 7hrs a day, 5 days a week he is woefully underpaid. He leaves for work before 7 and is rarely home before 6. I don’t know where the 9-3 misconception came from. The respect for the role of a teacher is simply not there.

    An example of what is talked about in the article:
    At the school where my husband works, numerous parents had complained about kids being bullied on facebook and the school not doing enough about it (despite being a primary school and the 13 year rule for Facebook). My husband and another teacher organised a parent information evening, outside work hours, on cyber bullying and cyber safety. They organised for a police officer to be there, for a representative from the department, as well as an expert on cybercrime. Notes were sent home letting parents know and other teachers were invited to attend. Guess how many parents turned up on the night? TWO!!! Two parents! Neither of them being the parents that had earlier complained that the school was not doing enough. How many teachers? 20 and some that have children of their own had their partners come along as well.

    Sorry has turned into a long post but just a small example of some of the things teachers face.

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    • Raraluna

      I am a teacher and we have the same problem – the parents that turn up to things are exactly the ones that don’t need to. The parents that should be there just can’t be bothered.

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      • olinda

        I really appreciate Ric’s article.
        Please don’t assume parents who don’t turn up just can’t be bothered. That may be true, but parents are people dealing with all kinds of problems and demands themselves.
        I am also a teacher and I try to extend compassion to the parents. I try not to judge them.
        Admittedly, it is not easy at times.

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  33. Anonymous

    It works both ways!! I’m a parent and when my kids are at home with me I don’t want to spend family time doing bloody homework and assignments. I’d have time to be the parent if they stopped trying to offload the teaching!!

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    • F

      I can’t stand homework and send home very little. The homework I do send home is not about offloading teaching. The homework is always revision of what has already been taught. If the children don’t understand it, I don’t expect the parents to teach it to them. They can bring it back to school and I will go over it with them.
      If you have a problem with the homework, I suggest you talk to your child’s teacher about it.

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    • Leelu

      Wow. Are you serious? They are your children. It is their homework, not yours. However, part of parenting is being engaged with what your children do. Please, you don’t empower yourself or your children by making excuses…make change. :)

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      • Anonymous

        @Leelu. COMPLETELY SERIOUS!! they go to school 5 days a week which is more than many adults go to work! If they spend after school and weekends on homework when exactly do they get to be kids!? I want to take them to play in the park, go to the beach and build sandcastles or go for walks and look at wildlife, THAT’S BEING ENGAGED! sitting and doing more bloody paperwork is not my idea of family time and I have refused to do it.

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        • Anonymous

          Most of the homework that most of the teachers set is finishing off things that were not completed during class or an additional assignment, or revision for some kind of assessment. These are all important skills and unfortunately teachers are under increasing pressure to get through a certain amount of content in a term or a year. That being said, there should be plenty of time for a balance of activities. I’m really impressed that you spent time helping your kids but that should be balanced as well.

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        • Nessnak

          Often homework is about setting the concept of organization and goal setting established early , if primary students are already in the mindset/ habit of allowing time for assignments, projects and revision each day then they most define fly will cope better come later tears of high school.

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          • Tanina - integration Aide/mother of two

            That’s it! It teaches them time management. The rest is revision. Kids are very good at manipulating parents “it’s too hard, I’m tired!” they don’t say that to their teachers do they? Here’s cheers for our teachers they do an amazing job!

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          • Tania

            I definitely agree with you both – time management and discipline are 2 key components of homework for me. It also lets me see in which areas my son is struggling. My son’s 4th grade teacher does a great job with her homework sheets. Each week she assigns a grid of 12 activities, incorporating helping at home, reading to a family member, a physical activity, as well as interesting ideas on more traditional homework subjects, with the idea being that you need to complete 4 over the week. It meets the needs of parents who want traditional or non traditional homework, with a lot of flexibility.

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    • MissGilkie

      Do you really think learning only occurs between the hours of 8.45am and 3.30pm? Teachers use class time to provide the concepts and tools kids need to understand maths, science, music, literacy etc but it’s up to the student and their parents (as the people who decided in their infinite wisdom to bring them into the world) to reinforce and practise these skills.

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    • JL

      REALLY?? c’mon now! homework isnt that fun for anyone, but its important! its usually revision for what they have learnt that day or week and by going over it again it imprints on the kids brain and helps them remember and learn! Homework is part of parenting! its a part of life and has always been apart of life! I really dont think teachers are offloading! But if u think there is too much homework then maybe chat with the teacher about!

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    • Raraluna

      I understand your point, I don’t like giving homework as a teacher for several reasons. 1. I think kids need time to be kids 2. They need time with their families 3. The homework is almost always badly done 4. There is evidence that homework holds very limited educational value. 5. Marking the bloody stuff takes so long and is time away from more valuable educational planning time.

      However, parents complain and think that I must be a lax teacher compared to some others in my grade. I am not, my standards inside the classroom are tremendously high and the results that my kids get are excellent. But parents seem to think that it is quantity and not quality. I am now forced to give homework merely to “keep up appearances”.

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      • Snap!!

        I agree with you completely. A principal once told me they only set homework because parents expect it.

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        • KatK

          Yes at my school they decided to stop giving homework and we had parents ringing and complaining that their children weren’t getting homework

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      • Anonymous

        Finally a teacher with a bit of common sense. In the course of a week my 5 year old does mathletics, reading eggs, home readers and 6 pages of paperwork + ‘special assignments (e.g take turns with a soft toy and write a 2 page story with pictures to show what you did on the weekend) WHAT WEEKEND!? WE SPENT IT DOING BLOODY HOMEWORK ;)

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        • F

          Once again, if you have a problem, discuss it with the teacher. You don’t fix the issue by complaining about it on here.

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          • Anonymous

            Thanks F, for our family the homework issue was raised and resolved, but this is a forum for people to address their thoughts and my overall point is that we are working young children too hard. Let teachers teach, let parents parent (and allow them the time to do it!)

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            • F

              No one will argue with you that homework is painful and hard when you get a lot but we do not offload teaching by sending homework home.
              I believe that children should get a small amount of homework that includes reading but as already stated kids need plat time as well.

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      • James Richards

        Where did all this no homework nonsense appear from……As a teacher I am sure you do homework. Do you not prepare for your lessons, perhaps adjusting what you did the last time you taught a certain subject to improve on its relevance and delivery? Do you not mark students work or perhaps write school reports in your time at home? These things I’m sure you must do…if not I would not deem you to be a teacher but as others have said in this post a glorified baby sitter.

        I don’t mean to sound so harsh but does homework not constitute a formidable part of education and child development? Does it not provide an opportunity for parents to witness their child’s development and interact with them as they learn? The child goes through so many changes and learning experiences as they move through the school system. Homework should not be seen as a chore for all parties but as a means of communication between all parties and an interactive medium for a greater understanding into the child’s likes, dislikes, wants, needs and aspirations.
        I myself do not have children at school age but will have starting next year. Currently with my four year old I undergo learning activities (games) that are fun and exciting. Each game is aimed at providing her with relevant life skills that will enable her to achieve and hopefully excel whilst at school. She has no idea she is actually doing homework. If provide homework are activities that are engaging and relevant and designed to be easily transferable in the home then homework can potentially be the most useful and invigorating learning experience for all, student, parent and teacher.

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        • Cel

          I agree, learning should be engaging and relevant. Sometimes however, certain members off staff will get all regimented and roll out a series of droll homework sheets (grammar) for example. Learning grammar is important but should be done soley in the classroom and in context to whatever else is being taught. As a stand alone task, it is debateable how much of it would sink in or get done in the first place! Once the student is engaged and understands the basic of grammar, perhaps they would then write a small journal entry of something they did that was fun with their friends or parents…using those skills. But they need to be engaged in the first place!

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        • F

          Could you please explain why you are discussing teacher prep when we are talking about homework for children? What prep we do to complete our work is not the same as setting homework for the children. Btw, I don’t take marking home with me. I complete all my work at school either before or after school. Does that make me a babysitter?

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          • James Richards

            Hi F, the only reason for the including in the discussion “teacher prep” is to highlight to all the importance of homework and its role in our everyday lives.
            After reading through many replies, not just the ones in reply to the comment made by anonymous above but throughout the entire post it seems that people from both sides of the argument have arguments for and against homework.
            I believe that many who are in the teaching profession, be it at primary or high school level and are partaking in this discussion are completing a form of homework i.e. Professional development. I am a chef by trade and am also a VET instructor as part of my everyday life at home I improve my knowledge and skills through reading cookbooks, attending trade shows, practicing my skills through experimentation, continuing my education, and the list goes on. Professional development is a requirement for almost all industries, my father an architect must complete it, my mother a nurse and my brother an accountant all need to accumulate points for professional development activities. This can only be achieved outside normal hours.
            Therefore I am attempting to point out to the parents out there that hold discontent for homework to open their eyes as to its purpose. It is not there for the teachers to offload incomplete tasks but is an avenue for which a child, tween or teenager can broaden their depth of understanding, skills and knowledge through self/personal development.
            No matter what a child has aspirations of achieving/becoming later on in life, they will most definitely be faced with the need to self motivate and further develop their skills and knowledge, so by providing these self development skills at an early age we can better prepare them for what they will encounter later in life.
            Of course the amount type and level of tasks/activities required should increase gradually as they move through the grades, I certainly would not expect a first grader to complete pages of paperwork each week, but most definitely would see a grade 10 to 12 student completing projects, assignments and essays etc.
            Perhaps we abolish the term “Homework” as the inclusion of the word “work” seems to be off putting to parents and term the process “personal development”? A different name with the same concepts and principles behind it.
            I hope illustrates my point earlier a little clearer F.

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    • Amelia

      What a joke! It is impossible for teachers to teach everything at school in order for children to receive well-rounded educations. Ever heard the expression that what is taught at school is merely the skeleton, it is the students’ responsibility to study at home and put flesh to their understandings. Parents that do not support their childrens’ learning cannot blame the teachers when their children grow into adults that do not value education. How absolutely ludicrous.

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      • Anonymous

        they seem to have ample time at the school to waste the kids time by learning the school dance (yep they have a themed dance at the school) 3 times a week. Here’s an idea, skip the hours of time wasting activities and do the ‘homework’ then. I’m paying for an education, not dance lessons.

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        • F

          You may see dancing as a waste of time but what about the kids that love it? Your child may be good at Maths while another is more artistic. We need to cater for all children.

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          • Anonymous

            Specialised activities should be up to the parents (to provide extra curricular activities/classes) It is not the schools job to run dance lessons…it seems to take up learning time (or so I presume…considering all the homework they get)

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            • F

              I haven’t had a good look at the national curriculum as I am on leave but dancing and drama was part of the curriculum.

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            • Nora

              dance lessons is learning time! There is much to learn ;-)

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            • lucindainthesky

              Dancing promotes:

              *physical health (children concentrate and learn better when they are in better physical health – it has been proven)

              *gross motor skills which are essential for development

              *social skills and teamwork

              *creativity – which leads to problem solving and higher order thinking

              *awareness and tolerance of cultural diversity

              *confidence and self esteem

              *numeracy – dance steps, rhythm, beats, pace, and musical patterns

              *literacy – in terms of verbal communication with peers, sharing ideas, written and visual expression/description of dances in possible follow up activities – it could form part of a SOSE unit on cultural diversity which is then a major contribution to literacy

              …I’d leave the teaching to the teachers if I were you. We don’t study for 4 years for nothing and I’m not sure what makes you think you know better.

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            • F

              Well said Lucinda

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            • cel

              Check out the ideas of Ken Robinson on education. He sees creativity as especially important; and dance allows students to create. I don’t want to live in a society of ultra conservative boring kids who won’t dance or play music.

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            • Anonymous

              Bravo Lucindainthesky! If only the complaining parents were educated enough to understand this then the issue could potentialy be squashed! The parents who believe that play time is their time and learning time is for school sadly have wires attached to all the wrong nodes! Children need a good mix in all aspects of their life, all play at home and potential for discipline to subside is great, no play at school and the same is apparant. Dance on and teach with enjoyment and fulfillment!

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        • Kris2040

          It’s a shame you see education as a commodity that you pay others to do for your kids. Do you clean their teeth at home or do you leave that up to the dentist? Homework’s the same thing. Take it up with the teachers. Does your school have an academic reputation? If you’ve chosen to pay for your kids’ education, you take the homework with the nice uniform and the extra discipline.

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        • Tania

          Actually I love the dancing/music/any creative expression. My beef is the seeming several weeks devoted to mundane Christmas craft at the end of the school year…. better to have a dancefest then!

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    • Luci

      I am concerned that it didn’t occur to you that by your attitude you are sending a message to your children…. a negative one about the process of learning..
      If you were active and receptive to assisting them in their homework, you are sending a positive message to your children that schoolwork is important and to be encouraged and respected

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      • Anonymous

        I am setting a perfect example of work life balance…. If you continue to overwork yours they will join the rest of the sheep by becoming work-aholics stuck in gridlock with broken families and a Valium prescription.

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        • Luci

          No this is just a justification for you doing what YOU want, and not doing what YOU don’t want to do.
          and besides, it is just a cliche to say children end up workaholics

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          • Anonymous

            agree to disagree. enjoy sifting through your homework this weekend. We’re off to explore the fresh air and sunshine!

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    • Sarah

      I am a teacher and in many cases he amount of homework is dictated by the whole school and P & C. Eg, Kindy may do home reading, year 6 reading, math and on-going assignment etc. I really hated wasting much of my time preparing homework assignments only to then get a few and had to chase the rest. I certainly didn’t offload my teaching.

      On another note, perhaps parents also have to see their role as ‘parent’ to include “doing bloody homework and assignments”! I am a parent and there are many hats to put on- the great and not-so-great!

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  34. katehunter

    The parental lobbying for certain teachers at my daughters’ school begins in October. It is fierce and there are tears (from mothers). I don’t know why they don’t just announce class lists and teachers on the first day of school, (the do it that way at my son’s school – no correspondence it entered into). I would like to see what would happen if the teachers got to choose their students. Would they be lobbying for mine? It’s a good question to ask yourself …

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    • Anonymous

      Apparently they can , my son has tourettes syndrome and last year his teacher requested he change classes as she couldnt cope with the disruption in her class room.He went back to school today and i am sure the teachers were drawing straws to see who has him this year .

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      • Raraluna

        There are teachers of all kinds, but I am sure there are teachers that will find something special in your child and connect with it. I have never taught a child that I didn’t like. You can always find something to like about them.

        Last year I thought that after 10 years that I had come across a kid that I didn’t like. I worked really hard with him, harder than with any other kid, to help him with his social attitudes and by the end of the year he was one of my favourite kids and had made so much personal progress. BTW When I say favourites, I don’t really mean that I have favourites, but there are kids that you feel immensely proud of and develop a huge attachment to.

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      • nairda37

        Teachers aren’t superheroes. Sometimes teachers or students have stuffed up the relationship and all of a sudden they don’t connect and it just cannot work. In which case a teacher may request that a student changes classes. This is sometimes for a trade of another student that didn’t work with the class they were in. Some teachers may have more experience with students with different conditions. I’m only a third year and I’ve had plenty of students with special needs, disabilities etc. People don’t realise that we are not actually trained adequately to deal with these conditions. It was never mentioned at uni. We got almost no quality training at school. Once the year starts we have no time to invest in improving. We just tend to pick up stuff along the way. Some teachers eventually become quite knowledgeable about different conditions. My brother has tourettes. My parents had no idea what it was until his grade 4 teacher picked it up and suggested an investigation. It really helped the situation

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        • Anonymous

          I really should add that even though I was dissapointed that his teacher decided to move him to a different class as he really did like her , I was pleased that she did have his best interest at heart and realized the dynamics didnt work in her class room.The teachers at his school are amazing and I have the greatest respect for them .They have all gone above the call of duty ,educating other kids on his condition and from what we experience at home I could not imagine dealing with him and 29 other kids from diverse backgrounds and their own challenges. I also understand that educating him has to be a joint effort between my self and the school, I have only recently started working part time so i can be more available to go to the school when he or the teacher is not coping, unfortunately the dept of education will not fund a full time teachers aid as his grades are suprisingly good.

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          • Anonymous

            Yeah, a good aid can make a massive difference. Good on you for getting involved. I can guarantee the teachers must be very appreciative.

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      • Miss

        Oh that’s a terrible experience for you and your son to have had! I’m so sorry you had to go through that…
        Please believe me when I say, as a teacher, that I often enjoy teaching the kids with a bit of personality and who can be a challenge (I know that Tourette’s isn’t a personality trait or behaviour choice, but I’m sure your little guy has lots of personality too!) somewhat more than the ‘easier’ kids. I picked myself (oh love that privilege with HS teaching) a very dynamic bunch of year 10s this year, because despite behaviour and learning issues, they are, all of them, charming and sweet in their own ways!
        Hopefully your son got an enthusiastic teacher this year!

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    • becekinsmith

      At my school the lists ARE read on the first day and the teachers start from day one. It’s unfortunate that parents are lobbying for certain teachers – how embarrassing for them and how childish! I would never want to choose students for my class, that is not fair to the teacher or the students. How sad that some people that they have to wonder if teachers “want” their kids. Teach your child manners, empathy and kindness and all teachers will want them!

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      • Kris2040

        My SIL told me very proudly at Xmas that one of the teachers lost a kid so she specially requested my nephew (he’s starting big school). Then told my SIL about it. Professional, huh?

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    • lucindainthesky

      I very much doubt the parents choice of teacher is considered anywhere near as much as they would believe. Student groupings very often are decided based on ratio of boy/girl numbers, behavioural or learning difficulties/special needs and teacher abilities that compliment these, and clustering according to intellectual ability. Students’ and their parents’ individual preferences are generally one of the last things that are considered unless there are specific reasons for the request.

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      • F

        Not at my school. If a parent asks for a certain teacher, they get it. When we do class lists, we start with parent request and then worry about everything else. I get annoyed by it every year. The head of our school is weak.

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  35. Rach

    I intended to attach this…similar debates constantly happening in the US, but more government related than parent.

    http://m.examiner.com/k-12-in-topeka/in-what-other-profession

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  36. Miss S

    As a senior secondary school teacher, I agree completely with this article. Like previous commenters have said, it is generally the minority of parents who behave in this manner and students are largely quite pleasant and respectful.

    However, if you read the comments on this Herald Sun article that this post was based upon, you will read quite a few disgusting comments from the general public about the “problems” in the education system and their feelings towards teachers:

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/raise-your-own-kids-teachers/comments-fn7x8me2-1226256687349

    A lot of what is written here I have come upon in my teaching career – parents who believe that the school is wrong for disciplining their child, that teachers are there only because they can’t get any other job etc…

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    • Rach

      Oooh…I got about halfway down and had to stop reading. Now we see which parents/children are the ones causing this!

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    • katepiasecka

      Wow. Mind officially blown.

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    • monique

      Wow. I just read some of the comments and was blown away, especially by this particular comment:

      “They’re NOT going to resign. Public School Teachers are on a good thing and they KNOW it!! 9-3pm job, smaller & smaller class numbers, generous salary for little work, free parking, free laptop & supplies, 16weeks of holidays per yr, 13days public holidays + report writing days off, personal development days off, study days off, lazy teacher days off etc etc… and to still produce the worst academic results in 70yrs…kids who can’t tell the difference btwn Grammar-Grammer, mm-cm, can’t spell sepArate-sepErate and can’t even recite the 4X tables!! And the teachers get to blame it all on ….. insufficient Govt Education spending , insufficient resources, not enough time and now…blame the parents!! Pathetic!! What’s that?? You’re doing it for the kids?? That’s code for you want more money, right?? Just get to WORK, you PARASITES. We’re not asking you for charity. We’re PAYING you to do so.”

      There was another saying teachers get paid heaps to do so little, quoting figures of $80-100,000 a year. Excluding Principal’s, please direct me to a teacher who earns that kind of money!

      http://moniquefischle.wordpress.com/

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      • shirlld

        Teachers at the top end of the salary scale earn over $80,000 a year, at least they do in WA but I’ve been teaching now for 13 years, this is my 14th year and I’m probably way overqualified with two bachelor degrees (arts and education), two graduate certificates (both to do with ICT in education) a masters in education (in English as a second language and indigenous education) and about to start a second masters (in special needs education). But I definitely wouldn’t say that I do very little given that I was at school from 6:40am until 4:30pm today and we haven’t even got children back at school yet and I’ve got a few hours of work ahead of me tonight and spent most of the first week of the Christmas holidays and most of the past week either working at school or at home.

        As for the first comment you copied on here, and I know it is now your comment, but it definitely rubbed the wrong way a bit…about personal development days off, that is a complete load of rubbish, for a lot of my personal development I have to fly 1000km as I live in the country and they’re usually on a Friday which means that I can’t fly back to Saturday, or sometimes Sunday if there is no Saturday flight so I can lose my whole weekend away from home stuck in another town in a hotel room. Study days off is also a complete load of rubbish, not once have I had or been given the option to a study day off, even when doing three uni subjects and teaching full time all the study was somehow done in my home time. Free parking, well I live 100m from school, so that’s not an issue. Free laptop, no chance of that, free supplies, can’t say I have that either, I order books, pencils etc for the students I teach but buy a hell of a lot out of my own money. 16 weeks of holidays a year… um since when? As we’re in the country we had an extra week at Christmas, but that still adds up to 13 weeks of holidays. 13 days of public holidays, who in god’s name gets that? There’s 10 public holidays in WA this year, 3 of them fall during school terms, the others are during the holidays so they don’t count. Report writing days off, no chance of that either, that’s done in my own time before and after school. 9-3pm job….um where I am we start class at 7:45am… yes that’s right 7:45am… so I have to be at school, ready, organised and ready to deal with children at that early hour.

        Some people obviously know very little and assume a lot of complete untruths.

        Sorry for the rant, but rubbish like this seriously annoys the hell out of me to say the least.

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  37. katepiasecka

    Great article! I have about 10 friends who are primary school teachers across WA and Victoria and just the other day I was talking to a couple of them about this. It’s a very real issue, nearly all of my friends who teach have complained about exactly this, and it’s across the board- private and public schools in a variety of suburbs.

    My daughter is not even two yet and until recently I wasn’t sure I was doing enough to prepare her for school (she’ll start prep in three years, I know- I’m nuts) but after some of what I’ve heard recently, I think we’ll be just fine.

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  38. Luci

    Hold the comment on woriking parents!! We should not categorise that too many parents are working just to “keep up with the Jones”. I am not a working parent, so have no personal bias on this, but I am not sure that many double income families do so just to have the 2 BMW’s.I am sure some do to save for holidays with their family, or to save for education fees , or just to pay the damned bills.
    My mother went back to work when I was 10, but we were fairly well discipline children.We were taught to respect the school and its teachers, and to behave there in a way that would not cause embarrassment to our family. My parents taught us to respect the teachers….but they also took the view that learning and behaviour BEGAN IN THE HOME. Hence, we had a house fulll of books, were limited in the amount of television we could watch, and what we watched was mostly educational . Manners were taught, and respect for others was promoted. Bad behaviour was punished.
    We weren’t goody two shoes children, but on the other hand, we went off to school well behaved and with a desire to learn.
    Teachers have to inherit and deal with the poor input from the parents..I feel sorry for them !!

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  39. Rach

    I am a teacher (but I have the wonderful benefit of working with students in the arts), my mother is a teacher (Yr 3) and a lot of my friends are teachers.

    I could discuss this topic all day, but I know it won’t change the minds of those who think teachers are overpaid, underworked babysitters.

    If you are a teacher, you know that it can take the entire two weeks to recover from a term. And for those parents who complain about teachers having too many holidays (and I know it can be awkward for those working full time), I just wonder when some people signed up to be parents, how they thought they would just be able to palm them off permanently through school years, never having to parent at home, including those 12 weeks per year?

    One of my good friends taught in a lower socio-economic school for a couple of years. There were a good proportion of 6yos that arrived not toilet trained. Most of the students had to be given breakfast, as there was often no food at home.

    For those who saw my open post about being ready to have kids, but being sad that we are not in a position to have them, it makes me angry that parents can have children with little regard for the effects on society, let alone their own children, but I may miss out because I want to do the responsible thing and make sure we are in the right place in our lives. I know there is never a perfect time, but there are better times than others. And for me, now is not the right time. It makes me sad that people abuse the privilege of having children.

    I’m sorry if I haven’t made myself very clear, but it makes me sad on many levels, as a teacher, as a child of a teacher, as a want-to-be parent, that there exists parents in society (as a gifted and talented teacher, even I have encountered many) who have no regard for their childrens’ upbringing.

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    • Dee

      I posted this further down the page (so apologies for bombarding everyone) but thought it linked to this topic about the kids who aren’t toilet trained:

      >>
      My sister is a teacher and she’s had numerous children turn up to kindergarten without being toilet trained. One brilliant mother decided to put her 4 year old daughter in undies for the first time on her first day of school. The mother then complained to the principal when my sister said that her daughter was not ready for school (apparently the child wouldn’t sit in her chair, wouldn’t follow directions, and of course didn’t know how to take herself to the toilet). I don’t blame the kid.

      And guess what… this wasn’t a case of working parents outsourcing their duties – both parents were long-term unemployed.

      >> Anyway, I am just astounded at the attitudes some people have towards their children’s teachers. And sadly, it’s just a cycle that is continuing because it’s “just how these kids were brought up”. It’s not a teacher’s job to raise children and teach them life skills, but if the parents aren’t doing it, who will?

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  40. Oops

    It is my son’s first day at school today and on reading this I have just realised I might be ‘one of those’ parents without even knowing it. 5 year old is very competent in all areas however with a new lunchbox, new school shoes and a new school backpack with tricky closures (as required by the school) I did tell him he could ask the teacher for help if he needed it. He does ordinarily know how to do these things but new stiff shoes, etc make it a bit more difficult. Hope there is some easing in time.

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    • Dee

      My sister’s a teacher (I’m just replying to everything today!) and she has always said she’d rather have a kid who can’t tie their shoes or open their lunchbox than one who won’t obey instructions or who isn’t using the toilet independently.

      I hope your son had a great first day at school, I’m sure he was fine!

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    • rhianna

      No, no, no, no! Do not feel bad about this! This is totally understandable! It sounds like your lil man will at least try – the main gripe I have is with 10 year olds who can’t tie their shoes, not lil guys and girls who’ve got tough new ones! I hope he has a great class, fab teacher and a lifetime of amazing learning! It sounds like you’ve prepared him well! xxx

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    • MissT

      “I did tell him he could ask the teacher for help if he needed it.”

      There’s a world of difference between what you have just said and what Rick has written about.

      Teachers are there to help and to teach.

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    • Oops

      Thank you for the replies. Just over an hour until I collect him – can’t wait to see how his day has been.

      Thanks for all that you do all you lovely teachers!

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      • Kim

        ‘Thanks for all that you do all you lovely teachers!’

        I’m a teacher – and don’t I wish I heard this maybe once a term instead of trivial complaints and parents trying to offload their issues to blame on the class teacher! As teachers, we certainly don’t expect a thank you, but it sure is nice to hear one every now and then. You thank the girl who packs your groceries at Woolworths. You thank the guy who services your car. You thank the lady at Medicare when you make a claim. We do a service to you and your children – a thank you isn’t that hard and it is such a nice feeling to be appreciated – when I get a thank you note/email/verbal from a parent it puts me on a high the rest of the day, if not week!

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    • F

      Don’t stress. It is quite common for a teacher in the early years to tie shoelaces and open lunchboxes for the kids in their class.

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    • JL

      holy crap im having a panic now!! My little man is 4.5yrs and wouldnt have a clue how to tie his shoes….mainly cos the only time he wears shoes with shoe laces is in winter on his converse! he wear’s thongs all summer long and his kindy shoes have velcro!
      he goes to school next year and he is a pretty independant little person but the shoelaces have me in a panic! haha i am on a mission this year with shoelaces!

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      • Rach

        JL, I was an advanced child in most areas, but even my mother, a teacher, didn’t teach me how to tie my shoes until I needed to tie my tap shoes for dancing at age 5. She made me a giant cardboard shoe and threaded a lace through it. :)

        I personally think that shoelaces in early primary/kindy are a pain anyway, the kids have their shoes on and off all day and if they are running around, laces that have come untied can be dangerous. I think if you send your son to school equipped for the level he is at, he should be fine. :) If that means he can’t tie his laces on the first day of school, so be it, but send him in Velcro!

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        • JL

          Phewwwww that actually makes me feel a lot better! Its not that i havent wanted to teach these things to him, its just that shoelaces are a pain in the ass for kindy and you are so right they are off and on all day long and velcro means he can put his shoes on an off as much as he likes! I think this winter when he is wearing shoes more we will try and help with the shoelaces more! its funny how i wouldnt have really though too much about it until reading the comments! I remember being 5 and still needing my mum to help me get dressed for school and i remember dressing myself one day and i was so proud…then mum told me it was Saturday haha…my little man can quite easily dress himself apart from the shoelaces, and i was fine at school! so i guess thats a good thought for me to keep in my head haha

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      • F

        I really wouldn’t worry too much about shoelaces. If he gets it, that is great. If he doesn’t, there is always someone to help him. I used to get older children to help me.
        The best piece of advice I got from an older teacher was always wash your hands after tieing shoelaces especially on boys.

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      • MrsB

        Velcro. Can’t beat it.
        Even when kids can tie their shoelaces, when they are learning they often don’t tie them securely. My kids choose shoes with velcro closures or we replace the laces with elastic that closes with a toggle (available at all sports shops).

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      • Raraluna

        Don’t worry about it – it is a tricky skill, but if in doubt buy velcro ones.

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      • Axe

        Don’t be on a mission. Think of the knots! Velcro or even riding boots are the go. Also, what teachers really dislike is having to do up laces that are covered in urine from dangling around in the boy’s toilets! To me it is like toilet training. If you start too early it’s a pain. Leave it till 2 and a half and it’s done in a week.

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    • Miss

      I’m a teacher, albeit a high school one, and if any of our little year sevens needed help with those things, I would gladly oblige. I don’t think your son’s teacher would mind at all – and for the record, you do not sound like on of ‘those’ parents at all!

      I hope your son had a lovely first day!

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  41. Frankie

    It is my job to teach my children manners, read to them and do the other things that lead to an easy transition into school and literacy. I’m educated, relatively affluent (only in the sense that the bills and mortgage can be paid without too much hardship) and so on.

    But thank goodness that there are also devoted teachers out there who can be a positive person in the lives of children from families and communities where there is generational disadvantage and where life can be really, really hard. In some schools that would be most of the kids. So in my mind, of course it’s a teachers role to provide some of that, and it’s also the role of the rest of the school community. For me, it’s no good only worrying about my (reasonably priviledged) children’s NAPLAN results if the rest of the kids come to school with no breakfast. It’s also no good being punative with kids who don’t bring their notes back, or who come to school in dirty clothes without showering.

    I think, extend some kindness and where possible some practical support. Most importantly of all remember that people have no say whatsoever about the economic or social environments that they are born into. Neither did their parents. This is not to say that there is no personal responsibility to be taken, but it is to say to use your privilege positively. It’s too easy when reading articles like this only to read your own circumstances into them.

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    • Rach

      I think it’s a given that these underprivileged societies exist, and there are some wonderful programs built into these schools, such as support for parents, health clinics, food programs, etc.

      My gut feeling on reading the article is that it is not directed at those societies. They will always exist, and it is up to all of us as a larger community to support as much as we can. I think teacher going into those schools are aware of those challenges, and many are there because they know they can make a difference.

      This seems to be directed more towards the group of more middle class parents (and certainly not all, but it seems to be growing, in my experience) who are expecting more and more of teachers to a point where there is less and less room for actual teaching. My mother as a teacher devotes a considerable amount of first term to teaching manners – to Grade 3s! And she teaches in a suburb where my husband and I (both teachers) certainly can’t afford to buy a house.

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    • Anonymous

      Beautifully said, Frankie.

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    • Miss

      I agree with you Frankie and can I say, as a teacher in an extremely disadvantaged area, teachers in schools in low socio-economic areas are extremely sensitive to the different needs of many/most of our students.
      As the principal said to me on my first day a few years ago, “Remember that no matter how frustrating the kids might be sometimes, it’s entirely possible that you are the only stable, positive adult influence in their lives.” I think of that everyday when I walk into my classroom, when I buy 600 books in the January sales to give to the kids whose parents don’t buy them, when I share my mandarins on lunch duty with the kids who are just hanging for something fresh, when I see those gorgeous little faces who beg me to run classes in the holidays so they can come in…

      Life is so often not fair to these little ones, who, as you say, have no say in the situation they are born into. We know, trust me, we know.

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  42. Denyse Gibbs

    Oh Rick, what a great article. You have hit the nail on the head. I am a teacher and your words were a great comfort. Picking up the pieces from unhappy and dysfunctional homes is what I do with teenage kids every day and I too have had Facebook pages quoted and been asked what I intend to do about it. Also parents ranting at me saying their son has no friends and what is the school going to do about it. This from a father who has threatened his son’s friends when there has been a falling a out ( quite a normal occurrence with young boys) and he wonders why the boys now steer clear of the poor child. I guess your post will gets lots of interest from teachers and those who know them and how hard they work and how much they care but I suspect those parents who need to read it will not take the time.

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    • picardie.girl

      Often the people who need to read or hear something the most think, “oh, that doesn’t apply to me”. It’s a shame you can’t do much about those who are completely lacking in self-awareness.

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  43. ellajean

    I was bought up to respect teachers..I was always to scared of my dad to answer teachers back….I love all the teachers my girls have because I know there is no way that I could be a teacher….

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  44. Nora

    Yeah some people are nuts. Our Vice Principal, a very lovely guy, often gets abused by parents at the school drop off point in the car park. Things he has been yelled at over….

    “Can you tell parents to put their children on the left hand side of the car with school bags on their lap to speed up the drop off process” (no)

    “Can you do something about the parents who park illegally and/or block traffic out the front of the school” (no)

    “Can you do something about the traffic flow out the front of the school” (no)

    They do of course make suggestions and requests in the school newsletter however not everyone bothers to read it.

    Teachers are apparently responsible for traffic matters and law enforcement also!

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  45. Charlie

    Great article Rick. I am sure I will be shouted down for my opinion, but it is what it is.

    I think a lot of the concerns society has with children and young people (lack of respect, lack of manners, some parents expecting schools to also parent) have to do with the outsourcing of parenting. The overwhelming majority of children these days seem to be sent to childcare from an early age, then off to school, afterschool care and holiday programs. I think it has become the norm for this outsourcing and that some people do not want to have to parent and others do not know how to parent.

    I think the reason for this is a combination of peoples expectation to have it all (material, career ect) and also a lack of confidence in their parenting skills. I know a number of women who have gone back to work purely because being a full time mum is just too hard. And it is hard, really hard.

    I also strongly believe that workplaces are totally unfriendly to parents. Children have 12 weeks off each school year and the majority of parents get 4 weeks each, try to make that work.

    I know this post was about an expectation on teachers to parent, not about childcare, but to me it is very obvious that it is all linked.

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    • eternally

      If you read some of the comments from teachers, it is the kids from socioeconomically disadvantaged areas (who are statistically less likely to have employed parent/s) who are more likely to have problems.

      I think that the cycle of poverty is far more damaging to kids than childcare (and the available evidence supports this assertion).

      Sorry, struggling to edit successfully…

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      • eternally

        I’d like to think that for most families, using childcare is a carefully considered decision, and not just about affording a big tv. Financial security is important for kids too, the stats on homeless kids, stories on families living out of cars are there. Less extreme, but employed parents also pay for school fees, extracurricular activities etc.

        Only 7% of women work full time when their baby is one, so I think the idea of childcare being full of little babies who are there all day every day is a misconception.

        Childcare or not, I think parental engagement and effort is sometimes an issue, I agree with you there.

        Sorry, I don’t think I’ve expressed myself well here, baby waking me many times a night….

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  46. B

    YES!! ah thank you Rick for this article!!! Expectations on teachers and even the thoughts people have on teaching as a profession is ridiculous a lot of the time and made on assumptions NOT on actual knowledge, but thats another story all together!!!
    Yes Social skills are embeded into the school curriculum and teachers do discipline the children in their class as this contributes to more effective learning however in most situations it is tailored to the educational setting and what expectations are of the school! Also with 25-30 students in a classroom these days we can not be responsible for ‘raising’ these children as well! We are trained to educate and facilitate learning and in my field as a JP teacher, assist children in developing the ability to read and write, that then gives them the fundamentals to effectively learn as they make their way through the years of education!! (side note: To all those people who see JP as just kids playing and doing craft and easy for the teachers… yes this is a part of the curriculum but there is substantial reasoning behind it…you would be amazed at what children learn through these!)
    If we don’t teach these young children to read and write where does that leave them when they hit upper primary and high school?! This alone is a heck of a lot of responsibility that comes with the job, we don’t need the expectation of doing a parents job of raising a child too!
    Also if the boundaries and discipline fundamentals that we as teachers enforce in the classroom environment is thrown out the window when the child gets home everyday, how on earth is a child meant to adopt such suitable social behaviours, etc if there is no consistency?!?!?!
    I understand that there are some fantastic teachers and some not so good ones out there, I have seen that first hand during my training alone BUT that does not give people the right to make assumptions about teachers and what society think we should be responsible for! We are educators not babysitters!!
    Make a choice parents… would you rather your childs teacher do what they are trained to do and educate them and facilitate their learning OR do you want them to do your job and raise your child so you can be their friend? I know which I would choose….
    Look at it this way an Architect designs the buildings they don’t do the physical building of it, thats the contractors job …similar thing teachers educate children, they shouldn’t have to raise them, thats the parents job!

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    • Rick Morton

      Thanks! And great comment!

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    • MrsT

      Great comment!
      Being from the teaching fraternity I found myself nodding along as I read each line!
      I love my job. I believe that the parents and I have a partnership, we work together to educate and nuture the whole child.
      But I’m very sorry, I can’t get them to turn off their Nintendo/Wii/Internet and go to bed!

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  47. georgiepie

    YES. rick, best article. It isn’t a teachers responsibility to teach your child manners, it’s yours.

    also, school is NOT A DAYCARE. Mum (primary school teacher) has had parents (the minority, obviously) yell at her ‘well, where am I supposed to send my child now? You don’t even need curriculum days, you get bloody holidays!’
    ….just planning your child’s learning, no big deal.

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  48. Mizzy

    My mum was a teacher in India. When she came to Australia she studied to be an accountant and as much as she loved it, she loved teaching more.

    So when she started looking to get re accredited I was worried about her (she’s too nice IMO to be a teacher). She was telling me how every morning her class would stand up when she arrived every morning, she knew all her student’s parents and never had to deal with half the problems I told her I’ve seen in school myself.

    To be fair, these were days were children did face the cane if the acted up but teachers need more power. It’s not fair on anyone to have their hands tied.

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  49. Disy

    Great article. I was flabbergasted when someone I work with was annoyed that she led to get her son diagnosed with dyslexia. She thought that the teacher should have identified it first. Even the therapist commented that considering it was a private school they thought it should have been identified earlier. It has become apparent to me that the mum thought for sometime that there may be a learning difficulty but because no one else identified or raised it she didn’t. Then she was just disappointed at the teacher that gave her son a bad report in the previous year.

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  50. Caroline V

    I’m a new scheme teacher, a mother, and have taught part time for 7 years across all Primary stages. The amazing members of the P&C groups at schools always support the school values when it comes to publishing them in official documents eg. Respect, Participate, Fairness, Contribute. But more offen than not, it’s an uphill battle to get the majoriTy of parents to support them at home. I’m regularly astounded at some students lack of respect for teachers and basic manners. Step up parents – please. support your teachers. Otherwise we could be left with an ungrateful generation of slackers.

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