by KATE SELTH
I met two strangers. I treated one with distrust and disgust; the other with confidence and respect. Same situation, same actions. I probably shouldn’t have judged. But I did.
And I’d probably do it again.
I was at the park with my two kids when an old man with a dog approached my young daughter. He walked straight up to her, said hello and told her what a ‘beautiful little girl’ she was. With a big smile he asked her name and introduced himself and his dog. I was standing right there but the conversation was clearly directed at her.
He proceeded to ask my little girl fairly appropriate but direct questions about her age, family and so on. My very social daughter was all too happy to share. I didn’t stop the conversation. It all happened rather quickly. There was laughter. Then the man leaned down to her, looked her in the eye and said he hoped to see her at the park again soon. *shiver moment* He walked off with his dog.
It made me very uncomfortable.
Yes, I was right beside her and he was just chit-chatting in a park while taking his dog for a walk. But he was an old man beside a playground without a kid. He’d walked straight up to her and shown an awful lot of interest. My perverse versus polite radar went up and we got out of there. His rapport building skills with my precious kid in just those few minutes were so strong that on the way home she said to me, “We know that man don’t we mum?” I firmly told her no and that she was not to talk to him again. Images of him trying to give her a lift home from school flashed through my mind.
Later that day I called the rangers and reported an old man hanging around the playground chatting to children.
They said they’d keep an eye out.
We returned to this same park yesterday. I was with my two kids again. A little girl arrived at the park and ran straight up to my daughter. They were both about the same age. They introduced themselves and got straight into playing together. Kids are social experts like that. The little girl’s mum was standing near the kids and started talking to my daughter. She asked my daughter her name, her age and a few questions about her school, family and the like. Despite me being nearby, these questions were, once again, directed at my little girl.
The girls started playing hide-and-seek and the other mum joined in. She was hiding, giggling and at one stage singing with the girls while I stood nearby holding my baby.
It got me thinking. Both adults had approached my daughter. Both had asked similar questions. My trust level of these two individuals could not be more different. With one I had felt compelled to gather up my family and call the local services. With the other I had l trusted her hiding behind trees with my child.
I trusted her just because she was a mother. I didn’t trust the old man, because he was an old man. I didn’t know either of them from a bar of soap.
How dare I treat the old man as perverse when he may have just been acting polite? He had not tried to bundle my kids into a car. He had not even tried to approach them on their own. Maybe he was a lonely old grandpa missing his grandkids. He may live alone. He may have ten grandchildren in another state or who never come to visit him. He may have just wanted a chat. He may have no friends and a dreary old life. Seeing my daughter happy and playing quite possibly could have brightened his day, his week, his month.
As parents we try to teach our kids stranger danger but where does that start and where does politeness and community spirit end? I don’t want our kids to be afraid of saying hello to a friendly neighbour. I want our suburbs to be inclusive and welcoming. But I don’t want my kids best-friending everyone they meet either.
My instinct needed to take precedence, whether it was prejudiced or not.
I probably shouldn’t have judged the old man. But I did. I’d probably do it again.
Kate Selth is currently a ‘career woman without a career’ spending time raising her two tiny tots in beachy Perth. She tweets her views about babycinos, politics and the world here.
Have you ever found yourself in a similar situation? What would you have done in Kate’s position?
Please be aware that Kate is reading the comments and remember our dinner party rules when joining the conversation.
398 Comments so far
Kinda on topic, but not really I just want some thoughts on this situation:
I am married with 2 kids, my husband is not my childrens father. But he is a very lovely step dad. Any way… he and my son (9) were walking through the shops holding hands. I thought this was so cute, as it was my son who grabbed hold of hubbys hand. I took a photo of them and posted it on FB (as you do…) and a “friend” made a highly innappropriate comment. Something along the lines of hubby offering him lollies in a sleazy way.
I was extremely offended as this “friend” had attended our wedding and knew our history (long story but basically their real dad is an ass). I deleted her comments but I can look at this women the same.
Am i right to be angry or am I overreacting?///
loading...
You have every right to be angry in my opinion. What she said wasn’t funny and there’s no need to say that kind of thing anyway.
loading...
My husband has described to me how uncomfortable he feels at times being the “lone Dad” in the park; feeling the suspicious stares of some mothers. I really feel for him and wish it wasn’t so.
However, imagine if he was to walk up to a little girl on the swings, completely ignore her mother standing nearby and proceed to tell the little girl how beautiful she was and that he hoped he would see her again soon with a big smile on his face.
That would certainly creep ME out and I am sure it would creep ANY mother out! It’s completely inappropriate behaviour for any stranger regardless of sex or age. It’s all about context.
loading...
I can’t believe the park man didn’t acknowledge the child’s mother.
And I also can’t believe that the mother didn’t have any communication with the other mother, and even join in the play. Or that the other mother didn’t come and introduce herself to mother number one.
On both occasions, were there NO other people in the park?
Nowt so queer as folk.
loading...
See, I can’t believe Kate (the writer) didn’t just start talking to either of them. Why wouldn’t you?
loading...
That, too.
Must be a stuffy lot at that park Kate goes to.
In my world, everyone talks to everyone else.
You do have to trust, and have faith.
Not all men are “bad.”
And not all women are “good.”
loading...
I don’t have a problem with her reporting the man but what she reported him for was incorrect. He wasn’t hanging around the park talking to children at all. He was walking his dog in the park and chatted to her daughter, didn’t acknowledge her and it gave her a creepy feeling. That is what she should’ve said, not lied.
loading...
Hey Rebecca, thanks for reading. Please don’t assume the worst and accuse me of lying. I didn’t. You have to remember that this is a short article and I can’t write word for word my conversation with the rangers. I explained the situation clearly to them and they understood the concern and said they would keep an eye on the park – surveillance is part of their job. Cheers
loading...
I had a friend who accused her brother-in-law of behaving inappropriately with her daughter. She went to the police but later dropped the charges (she didn’t believe it was worth going through the process). Her sister stayed with her husband believing that he had not done what my friend had accused him of (my friend had years earlier accused a man of raping her – she dropped the charges on that one too). She has no relationship with her sister (it’s been 4 or 5 years). My friend has a history of lying and mental illness so there is a chance taht there was no wrong doing (especially as she didn’t take the matters further with the police).
My point is, is that we are sometimes too quick to report things that we judge as ‘creepy’ not realising that there are other lives involved.
I understand that as a mother your priority is your child but stop for just 1 minute and take the time to discuss the situation before talking about gut instinct. Gut instinct doesn’t hold up in court!!
loading...
This subject is very thought provoking, but I find it hard to understand why readers are questioning this mothers ‘gut feeling’ in these situations.
My daughter is my life amd if I didn’t feel something was right I might do the same thing
In the other hand if she had if let her daughter talk to that man again in future and something DID happen… Are we going to judge her because she was giving her child too much freedom and she should have known better?
Perhaps we just let mums decide how to protect their own children, and follow our instincts?
loading...
By all means, follow your gut feeling and remove your daughter from the situation. But once Kate and her child were in safety, she should have rationally evaluated the situation to determine whether it was necessary to report the man.
I thought it was fair to take her child away from the stranger based on feelings, but criminalising somebody based on emotions is unjust.
loading...
Totally agree.
loading...
Like^ I mean come on, why did she return the next day anyway? Do parks exist for her use only?
loading...
Her gut feeling is being questioned because it’s bigotry at it’s worst. Would it be ok for a man to not employ a woman because his “gut” feeling said no, even though she had done nothing to prove that she wasn’t able to do the job?
I don’t think so.
You can hide behind the safety of children, but the bottom line is that her reaction was sexist and discriminatory.
loading...
The like buttons on the comments have disappeared in this post… what happened to them????
loading...
I know, I find it so annoying
loading...
Me too.
loading...
It’s bloody hard as a male to show any signs of care regarding kids. One does get some pretty evil looks at times simply for being a single bloke in the vicinity of kids.
It’s fine to teach kids stranger danger, but we should never forget that it’s usually people known to the child who abuse them.
Whenever I come across a lost or crying child, I’ll always help them but for my own safety I make a beeline for the nearest woman with kids.
loading...
like
loading...
And you don’t have to try too hard to find women complaining that their partners don’t have much to do with the kids. Why would you want to if you’re going to get suss looks for taking your kids to the park on your own? Or Pop taking them to the park? God forbid they might need to go to the toilet!
loading...
In my opinion, continue to trust your instincts. I have had two occasions(that remind me) in my life that I had an instinctual reaction / gut feeling that was correct.
1. I was 20, travelling on train, got a weird feeling about this strange guy, only seat left on train – didn’t want to offend him so I sat next to him. He chatted to me , put his had on my boob and I was paralysed in fear, just couldn’t move or say anything. My instinct was to NOT sit next to him. He made some disgusting comment and got off the train. YUK!
2. Walking home one late night in a country town. Had a gut feeling to check out the houses as I walked along for emergency help or shelter if something bad should happen . One minute later a guy flashed himself at me and chased me down the road. It was only that I had been checking out the houses and taking note which ones would safe / at home so I could get help. I ran into the house of an old lady who called the police and they dealt with the situation.
My instinct remains intact and proves me correct on many occasion. (particularly with my kids). I now would rather offend someone (i.e. not sit on that only chair on a train) and feel safe.
loading...
I totally get where Kate is coming from. Sometimes you just get a strange feeling and I think we all need to listen to our instincts more!!
loading...
I don’t see why people are having a go and someone, a mother who is acting out of love for her daughter by trusting her instincts.
This is probably a lonely old man having a chat, yes. But what if it wasn’t? Instincts are real. Please don’t be cruel to a woman who is simply protecting her daughter. No harm in being cautious.
loading...
I agree with many of the comments that it was an overreaction to report this man to the rangers. After all, he didn’t do anything wrong. I find it kind of sad that society is so mistrustful, everybody is a pervert or an enemy.
However, I do want to support Kate in following her intuition. I make a point to follow mine (never used to) and since doing so, I have found it is always right.As I said, I would not have reported the man, but I would tell my daughter not to speak with him again. And give her a ‘don’t trust strangers’ talk. As some of you have said, most children who are molested are done so by their own family members. Well, if by that logic you cannot completely trust your own family, why should you trust a random man on the street who gives you an icky feeling?
loading...
How can you judge her reaction when you weren’t in the situation. Whether I would of done what Kate did or not, I certainly wouldn’t berate her! People have continually commented on reporting him to the authorities when really all she did was ask the council for extra vigilance because of the situation that occurred. How does that hurt anyone? I find it more strange than anything that the woman that played with the daughter didn’t engage in conversation with Kate. I have never come across that- other mums always seem to strike up a conversation even if it’s just one or two questions if they are playing with your child. Great honest article Kate.
loading...
I find it a bit odd that neither of the strangers spoke to the Mum first. When I take my dog for a walk she gets a lot of attention because she’s fluffy and cute and very sweet. But their parents are always there or close by and it’s common curtesy to say hello or wave etc. I find it extremely odd that anyone wouldn’t be chatting to the Mum as well. To be fair I can see where the elderly man was coming from as a dog owner. My dog loves kids so she gets a bit put out if she can’t go and play with every kid she sees. Not that I would let her because I think it’s rude to just allow her to walk up to anyone uninvited. For me I wouldn’t be judging on whether the person was an elderly man or woman but their behavior towards the child and the Mum. Ie not really including her in the conversation or getting her ok to play with the dog or the other child. We have gut instincts for a reason. Usually we are subconsciously picking up behavior in the other person that makes us feel uneasy. Or that we have learnt through previous experiences to be threatening.
loading...
Nothing wrong with discriminating against people in such circumstances.
For example, I discriminate terribly against people with tattoos. Tattoo parlours are controlled by bikie gangs – fact.
The tattooed person is obviously comfortable moving in those circles. So yeah, tarred with the same brush, it’s all about my survival and not their hurt feelings that I may have misjudged them.
Prejudging happens everywhere. You’re prejudged at those supermarket self serve check outs…why do you think a staff member is always nearby, not to help you but to prevent you stealing stuff and if you think otherwise, I have a harbour bridge I’d like to sell you.
To not prejudge is political correctness insanity. Fairness, pfft, you’re not hiring someone on their merits when you’re walking down the street.
loading...
Umm, wow.
“The tattooed person is obviously comfortable moving in those circles…”
Are you talking just heavily tattooed people or even the 18 year-old girl who just got a tramp stamp of some ‘inspiring phrase’ or a pretty pink music note on her ankle? Serious question. Not all people with tattoos are thugs. In fact, the majority aren’t.
(For the record, no, I don’t have any tattoos so was not personally offended by your comment.)
loading...
Tramp stamp!! Jeez. Almost as judgemental as the post above
loading...
Well my tattoo is always hidden, which is unfortunate for you because how else will you know to judge me? I guess you would have to get to know me.
I judge people too – once I know enough about them to know that they are narrow-minded.
loading...
I have a tattoo and I don’t hang out with bikes! I might actually teach your kids. My tattoo is hidden in most circumstances so you wouldn’t even know it was there. My navel is pierced too!! Watch out!!!
loading...
I’v had an experience in a shopping centre , near the food court, where my 3 yr old daughter dropped her balloon. As her father walked back to get the balloon, a man , about 50, lept out of his chair and grabbed it. Her father held out his hand and said thanks mate, but he ignored him , walked straight past him, and went and knelt down in front of my daughter and gave it back. As he did, he held her hand and started patting it. We both told him to back off, and to not touch her. and you know why, because no one touches my kid . no one ignores me and engages my kid in conversation and touches her. when an adult talks to your kid , they usually acknowledge you too, even if it’s a nod of the head or whatever. When that doesn’t happen, You should be alarmed. I don’t care what anyone says, what this man did , was not normal. It set off alarm bells big time. and yes , I did go to centre management. I’ve never done that before, and I’ve not done it since. but something was definitely off with that guy, my gut told me.
loading...
leapt, not lept. I wish we could edit again.
loading...
There doesn’t seem to be a like button….but LIKE! Trust your instincts!
loading...
MM, why is my post not showing up here? There is literally nothing nasty about it, I promise!
loading...
Hi Gemack
We have had a few commenting issues this week with an overzealous spam filter and some of the buttons disappearing. Our tech team are doing their best to fix it – in the meantime, I’m really sorry for the inconvenience, I’m sure you weren’t nasty!
Jamila
loading...
My wife & i were just discussing this artical, & as the father of a young daughter I have experienced the suspicious & concerned glances from mothers at my children’s swimming lessons, at play grounds & other public places when I am alone spending time with my daughter.
I am always saddened that people need to feel this suspicion of me, & it is always uncomfortable for me, but I also know that in the situation Kate writes about, I would be equally concerned for my daughter if this man approached her. Unlike Kate I would also be suspicious of any person (including the mother of the playing child), that didn’t acknowledge the parent (be it my wife or myself), as well. My wife & I have been talking about how we both always AT least make eye contact with another child’s parent & only ask very few questions unless required… It’s almost a social curtesy (or social norm), and if someone failed to acknowledge either of us I would feel wary.
It is perhaps a sad truth, but I would be just as cautious as a parent, so it is the onus of the stranger to at least acknowledge the parent in the situations Kate writes & anything similar.
loading...
I know what you’re saying Matt, about female parents when you’re the only male parent in the environment.
I came to the conclusion that the female parents negative vibes arose in those circumstances because they were envious that I, the male parent could afford, “the luxury”, of taking extended leave from work to be so involved with my children.
That’s how I processed it but I’m sure as you’ve felt, some of them would’ve thought it abnormal (IE: must be a pedophile) that a father would take such interest in their child.
loading...
I am fearful for my children because my husband was abused by a priest and I was abused by my fathers best friend.
When I’m in the park I fight all my instincts and try to let my children play as the innocents they are.
It’s a bad bad world and I don’t want my kids to see any of it.
loading...
Can I just state the obvious. Some men, a very tiny percentage of course, use puppy dogs as a way to capture the attention and trust of children.
Another method which a man who was molested by pedophiles as a child was horse riding lessons. He said that many male and female pedophiles get into that industry as it involves physical connection with children.
Sorry, but better to know than not.
loading...
I think that most of us, 99.9% of us, have no idea the incredible cunning of pedophiles because we are all basically good people.
They are extremely manipulative, cunning and clever. They’ll use a dog, toy, to get a childs attention.
As we’ve seen in the news so often with children who are abused, assaulted or killed, they will befriend single mothers and kindly offer to babysit. They can be very charming, warm and helpful.
How many times have we viewed, read in the media of some womans boyfriend, not the childs father, who has hurt or worse killed the child.
We have to be alert and protective, even slightly neurotic, children rely on us to be.
loading...
I TOTALLY disagree. Yes, protect them, but neurotic? No way.
Your children rely on you not just to protect them from obvious dangers, but to enlighten them as to the world’s beauty, too. To be honest, your kids are at a far, far, far, far higher risk of developing mental illness such as anxiety than they are of being killed by their babysitter.
There is a reason these kind of things are “newsworthy”. It’s because they hardly ever happen. Nobody turns on the news and sees a story about the hundreds of thousands of children who every week go to the park and nothing happens.
Teach your kids about adventure, community spirit and the joy of learning and development. That way they will be equipped as adults, not turn out neurotically afraid of strangers and risks and unable to judge situations for themselves.
It strikes me as the ultimate irony that we are all so obsessed with protecting our children from risks, and giving them the textbook “perfect” childhood, that we are ruining all the experiences that made our childhoods so magical.
loading...
Like!
loading...
Like as well!
loading...
Very true on the puppy front. I think a good way of telling someone’s intentions when they have a dog is whether they approach you or how they let the child treat the dog. I’m a woman in my late 20s so I don’t think I raise red flags but as a responsible (and slightly over protective) dog owner there are things I do which someone who was using a puppy as a prop wouldn’t do. Ie never approach a child (they could be scared of dogs and my dog needs to learn that it’s NOT ok to go bother people). If I can tell a child wants to pat my dog but is shy or scared and their parent is their I talk to both of them then teach the child how to pat a dog safely and make sure to praise them for not rushing over to the dog etc. but I think the biggest tell is how someone lets their dog be treated. An adult letting a kid smother a dog is NOT ok! My dog would be fine with it cos she has a group of kids she plays with regularly. BUT i wouldn’t allow a child she didn’t know to do that because that’s teaching the child it’s safe to do that to ANY dog and I don’t want MY dog getting hurt or over excited. I didn’t know that about the horse riding!
that’s horrible!
loading...
I use puppies to get the attention of women
loading...
Hi MM team,
Whats with blocking my comments whenever I write my name in the Name box this evening. What have I done now that requires my banning? Am I getting too many positive votes on this topic? I enjoy my almost weekly sin binning from you guys, but it is kind of getting to be ridiculous. Who in there hates me so bad, or is it just that the truth hurts? I never seem to get an answer as to why.
loading...
I think your contribution is great, if it counts for anything!
loading...
I love your comments. They’re the ones I always look out for
loading...
Agree Wounded Bull, MM have blocked our entire office staff from accessing / commenting on this site (so MM some feedback for you, if you ban one, you ban all ). It appears that any slightly contentious comment left is deleted at their discretion.. Which begs the question : what now. MM, is the point of your website? I find it boring (I can only read articles from home now due to your restrictions), and then when I read the comments nothing makes sense as selected posts have been deleted – and for no apparent reason? Please MM, rethink the purpose of your site.
loading...
Hi there, if you can’t access our site at the office this means your employer has blocked US not the other way around!
Some workplaces do have very strict firewalls so their staff can’t use the Internet for non work purposes.
As for the purpose of mamamia? It remains the same. And thousands of readers are commenting every day as that number continues to grow.
loading...
thats simply not true, you know Mia that you ban based on ISP addresses if you disagree with someone or think they overstep the mark. I get sin binned regularly, and the only reason I can work out is that you guys disagree with my position arguing against your opinion on many issues. Forget the fact that I often get extremely high positive votes on my contributions.
The replies I get are usually way more offensive than anything I say, yet I get deleted and banned, and their offensive comments re me stand.
And I keep asking for someone at MM to please explain why I am sin binned, banned and deleted so much, and I never get a reply. Here again. you reply to ‘MM Once Advocate’, and conveniently fail to address my comment.
I am not going anywhere guys, I have been a contributor on here for years. To acknowledge my question as to why you do this to me and others would be nice (I am not holding my breath, I have been asking this same question for as long as I can remember).
The Bull
loading...
Hi Bull
I’m sorry for not replying earlier, I hadn’t seen your comment that you hadn’t been able to post. I emailed you earlier this week (didn’t get a reply either! Works both ways!) about your posts and you should be having no problems as your comment rights are fully restored.
If you are having a problem, then I presume it’s a technical issue – as long as the comments were fair and not out of line so as to warrant being removed.
Flick me an email at jamila@mamamia.com.au if you’re still having issues and I’ll try and get to the bottom of it over the weekend.
Jamila
loading...
Why don’t you send them an email instead of complaining continuously on their public comments site? You may get a better response that way.
Some of your complaints come across as quite petulant. We all get deleted at times. It’s the nature of the beast and it’s their website.
loading...
Hi Jamila, thanks for the response, sometimes it seems I am being singled out for no reason, but maybe it is the nature of the beast and others get this happening and just dont voice there issue.
Faybian, thanks for your comment regarding my tone, but I have sent many e-mails when issues occur and get no resonse. I have not checked my hotmail for a few days I must admit, but last time I had, no body had resonded within a week of my e-mail query as to why I had been banned yet again last week.
I love contributing on here, sorry if it seems I choose to flag my issues re being deleted here, but it gets very very frustrating when you spend maybe 10 minutes formulating a response, and it just disappears into the ether.
loading...
This reply is to The Bull:
I hate having a well-formualted response disappear too! As I’ve only just started contributing I wasn’t quite sure how it all worked. I didn’t realise they could ban people!
My trick now is to copy long replies & paste them in a draft email with the article title & date. This way if it disappears I can easily retrieve it & don’t have to waste as much time re-typing/thinking.
loading...
Sometimes I get deleted simply because the thread I’ve commented on gets heated and someone oversteps bounds of politeness, so thhe whole lot goes. That probably accounts for some of yours.youre quite frank and passionate at times, so being the Internet, it probably inspires some “interesting” replies.
loading...
I get blocked when I use my name too, and now I’ve been blocked using another name, so I can only guess that Mamamia doesn’t like any sort of criticism or dissenting opinion.
It’s just a shame that mamamia doesn’t block women for writing disparaging comments about men.
loading...
Anon – we are more than happy to see dissenting opinion or even criticism on the site as long as it is expressed in a fair and respectful way.
If you are having problems commenting or if you have an issue with a comment being deleted, you are more than welcome to email me (nat@mamamia.com.au) and we can explain our reasoning.
Cheers.
loading...
Ive been reading all these comments with interest. I think as a society we have become overly paranoid about stranger danger. I’m not saying his guy was or wasn’t someone to worry about, I just feel like we view too many people with suspicion these days. I’ve always been a firm believer of trusting ones gut however I think sometimes we get confused between our gut and our perception of all the “bad” things that could happen to our kids. I read a great book called “Free Range Kids” by Lenore Skenzy (she also has a blog by the same name) it is an excellent read and really helps to dispel so many of the myths that we all believe and worry about.
I’m not at all suggesting that bad things don’t happen to children, they do, but they don’t happen neary as often as we think they do and unfortunately when they do, it is often someone known to the child.
Get yourself a copy of Free Range Kids, it is a must read for all parents! It especially helps those who worry a lot!
loading...
Thanks one of the guys mentioned this site earlier in the day. I didn’t realise that it was a book too. I’ll check it out this weekend.
loading...
I subscribe to the blog. It’s good!
loading...
Maybe Daniel Morcombes’ parents should read this?!
One child abduction every 100 years is more than enough. And enough to keep us alert and careful even neurotic.
Can you imagine thinking about what that pedophile did to young Daniel before he died? I can’t imagine how his parents deal with those thoughts.
I knew the man in Adelaide whose young son was abducted abused and killed, like Daniel, by a group of pedophiles. HOw does he and his wife cope?!
These are just two of hundreds of examples. Neither of these innocent boys knew their abductors/abusers/killers – so tell me again what book we should be reading?!!!
loading...
From all the statistics on child molestation, it happens from within the home most often by a parent, older sibling or close trusted relative because of the constant access to the child and the ability to groom them.
Stranger danger is a rare thing compared to the danger of the home.
That’s why none of my children have ever stayed overnight anywhere without their parents being present. You just never know who might be that way inclined.
loading...
I’ve heard many professionals who work with children say that one of the most unhelpful and perhaps even damaging campaigns centred around child safety was “stranger danger”. Not because it is ineffective, but because it focuses so intensely on outside dangers, that kids were not being taught how to recognise and cope with inappropriate behaviour from people they already know. Food for thought perhaps.
loading...
Dear Anonforthis, the reality is that very bad things happen. Things that if they happened to any of my children my life would be over. But I cannot spend every moment of my life worrying about these bad things because I choose not to live that way. Daniel Morcombe was not doing anything unsafe, it was very reasonable that he was catching the bus on his own. While doing a perfectly age appropriate thing something too horrendous for words happened to a child, someone’s boy and my heart aches for him and his whole family. Aside from warning our children not to go with strangers or wrapping them up In Cotton wool and never letting them leave our sight until they are what, 18? even then they will always be at risk of bad things happening, we have to let them live. Well at least that is what I believe. I believe the world is an inherently good place where bad things happen.
The book Free Range Kids won’t stop bad things happening but it does help to alleviate some of the fear that so many parents live with. It tries to put these fears into real, perspective. And for me, that really helped me relax and parent my kids in a way that is good for all of us.
In the end we all have to parent in a way that we are happy with. What works for me, may not work for you. I do not put my children at unnecessary risk (although I guess that is all a matter of perspective) what I am trying to do is keep them safe whilst at the same time raise boys who have independence and skills to go out into the world because ALL children have to go out into the world at some stage and I want mine to be equipped to handle it. For me that involves trusting them, teaching them and instilling confidence in them. I can’t be neurotic, I just don’t want to live that way and I also sadly realise that I can be totally neurotic and it still won’t stop the bad stuff happening.
loading...
I dont know. I had a couple incidences of ‘creepy old man’ when i was growing up: one was a man who said ‘come in, dont be afraid’ when i wandered away from my mum and past a mens toilet door in the park, one old dude stared at me n my sister when we were playing in a hotel pool when we were 10, so i dont know if i would have called the rangers but if some random dude came up for no reason to my (hypothetical) child and said they were beautiful i would be a bit apprehensive too. i find it really weird when randoms try to chat to me though, get a life ay
loading...
Kate can feel how she wants, and she felt the way this man was talking to her child was strange. She had the courage to listen to her feelings instead of ignore them to prevent someone else being offended, possibly at the expense of her child or another child. We as women are too often taught to ignore our gut feelings and be “polite” or “nice” and always please others. If he was just a lonely old man, I am sure Kate would have that feeling. But she didn’t, and good on ya Kate for listening to your gut feeling and reacting.
loading...
Sadly we live in a world where we are constantly hearing about children being abducted or attempted abductions, people (and I’m sorry but usually men!) trying to grab 2 years old right through to teenagers and even adults.
You weren’t accusing the man of molesting your child, you were reporting behaviour that made your “alarm bells ring” If more people did this, the police would get alot of information, often prior to a crime occurring. Most people don’t report anything, either assuming someone else will take care of it, or not wanting to appear “stupid”
Good on you for reporting it! I wish more people would report things to the appropriate authorities.
loading...
But really, are we ‘constantly’ hearing about these things? I read the news everyday on a few sites, I watch the news occasionally on the TV and I very rarely hear these things. I hear about politics, I hear about taxes, I hear about crimes against adults, I hear about drug busts, I hear about asylum seekers, I hear about the latest scientific discoveries…abductions and the like I hear about less than 1% of the time. Seriously.
loading...
I listen to the radio everyday and at least 2-3 times a week I hear about attempted abductions especially of children. In the past week, I’ve heard 3 separate stories of attempts so no I wouldn’t call that rare.
loading...
2-3 attempted abductions a WEEK? Where do you live? And what news do you hear this on?
I think that might be a *slight* exaggeration.
loading...
So do I.
loading...
Ahh no it isn’t. This week alone, I’ve heard of three separate occasions where there have been attempted abductions in Sydney. One of a 4 year old girl, one of a 15 year old young woman and another one of a 6 year old boy. They have all occured in NSW and the radio station is Mix 106.5.
This number doesn’t happen every week but it’s not that unusual to hear about at least 1 a week. It doesn’t always make national news but always local news.
Also, check out the statistics from the AIC. In 2004, for every 100,000 people, 6 would be either abducted or experience an attempted abduction before the age of 19. That means that approximately 1200 children (assuming a population of 20 million and we now have more) have either been almost abducted or actually are abducted. Some has family members, many aren’t. Still a rare occurance? I don’t think so.
loading...
Who were the abductions attempted by? Split up parents?
Were they fair dinkum or what is reports of the white van?
I don’t believe you.
loading...
This might stun you Kris2040 but your disbelief in facts doesn’t worry me. Google abduction rates in NSW alone, you might actually learn something. Deal in facts, not whatever you feel like saying.
Check out Sky News -The 49-year-old allegedly grabbed a 14-year-old girl by the throat and threatened her with a knife. The man also tried to snatch a six-year-old girl from netball courts in south Turramurra in February.
Check out the NSW Police Website, I just found 5 separate abductions attempts in the past fortnight – NONE were parents.
Or don’t you beleive the police now either?
loading...
there are over 3 million kids aged 0-10 in Australia. Lets keep perspective shall we.
loading...
I did google for stats and found this:
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime/victims.aspx
Nothing like 1200 people (let alone kids) for 2004. That is the AIC, as you suggested.
loading...
kris, those stats are for recorded kidnappings, and do not include attempts. When I was on prac last year, there were 3 reported attempts/incidents by someone in a car of the same description in close proximity to the school within the space of 2 weeks. The police were investigating quietly, and the children were spoken to about walking or riding home with a friend/buddy… yet this was not in the news. This kind of stuff does happen, we can’t just turn a blind eye to it.
loading...
It happens. At 10 I was literally chased a part of the way to school by a complete stranger who turned around when he saw I’d made the school gate. It was never reported to police. I wonder how often that happens.
loading...
No-one (including me) is suggesting turning a blind eye if it does actually happen. But its a big leap to say that it happens all the time everywhere.
Teaching kids how to be safe is better than screeching “Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?!?!?!” and telling them that every stranger, and in particular every man, is just waiting to bundle them off and do unspeakable things to them when it’s just not true.
loading...
we hear about attempted abductions almost weekly where I live, in Brisbane ( south Brisbane actually) Mainly in the surrounding suburbs. I must admit it’s not 2 or 3 times every week though, but it is pretty frequent.
loading...
I agree. People say not to worry about these things but we are constantly being told of incidents by credible sources – ie. the school, police or the people it actually happened to. My daughter’s school has now banned kids from going home alone after 5pm due to advice from the police about an increase in these types of incidents. They have also now hired security guards and installed locked gates – so different to when I went to the same school all those years ago.
loading...
And 1 child abduction a year is too many. Are we really going to start to be relaxed about something as serious protecting our children? She wasn’t saying that he was molesting her child. She reported it.
Imagine a different scenario. A child is abducted and murdered from the exact same park. Several mothers come forward and say they had strange feelings about this man who had approached all of their children. This man turns out to be the perpetrator. Wouldn’t we all be angry at the mothers for NOT reporting such behaviour? Could it have possibly saved the child? Could they have possibly found the child before they were murdered?
loading...
If she hadn’t reported it and something, God forebid, happened to another child can you imagine the guilt and the backlash.
It’s called being responsible and caring.
loading...
You hear weekly or even daily attempted child followings from Victorian school or possible attempted abductions or adults loitering around Schools only if you are part of the school system as it emailed daily to school about the above – so never assume it doesn’t happen because it’s not in the regular news.
loading...
I have 2 young daughters and over the years I’ve had a few encounters with creepy people. But you know, as far as old men go I don’t know why they would be ‘creepier’ than young men. Maybe it’s just that they are from an era that didnt have such fear of people they dint know. And old people are generally captivated by young children for many reasons, maybe the child on a swing reminds them of their own childhood, maybe they are reminded of a time when they had young children. And maybe they just love to bask in the pure delight of watching young children play.
loading...
Just a question for all those people slamming poor Kate for ringing the park ranger, what if a child went missing in the very same park and the thing that led police to finding the abductor/killer was that the Park Ranger had been given a description of this man by Kate and it was passed on? Would you still be tearing her down? I doubt it.
You know what? Kate may be wrong about this man’s intentions, but she was not accusing him of anything by telling the park ranger. She was making the park ranger aware. The old man will never even know. Second, this was obviously not just an ordinary interaction with a stranger because she was still thinking about it a long while later. And something felt wrong enough all that time later to pick up the phone. And wrong enough for her to write about it, well and truly after the fact.
Mia’s post below is a reminder that there ARE weirdos/paedos/homocidal maniacs out there, no matter how rare they might seem. There is nothing at all wrong with being cautious. Your child’s safety is worth the possibility of being embarrassed.
loading...
What ifs are rediculous to bring into any discussion of this nature. By your logic I could justify calling the authorities about anything I personally felt was suspect just in case something came of it. There would simply be no time to investigate all of these and still carry out regular duties. This relates to police, rangers, security or anyone else you care to contact.
The end never justifies the means and a possible end is in no way a defense for overreacting. None of us know how we would react in any siituation until we find ourselves in it and at least Kate is disecting her actions afterwards. However, to try to defend these by referring to possibilities, whether likely or remote, is dangerous. Where does it stop?
If we turn the tables here and hypothesize that Kate’s instincts told her everything was fine and this man was later found accosting a child, would people still be applauding her for listening to those instincts? Instincts, even those of a mother in regards to her children, are not perfect. All any of us can do in such situations is act inaccordance with our instincts (or gut if you prefer), intellect and intuition.
I’m not vilifying what Kate did, but I do take umbrage at those who use this forum to defend such actions as not only acceptable, but preferable to any other. It’s not so much men who lose out in that case, but the children who are being taught either directly or subconsciously to fear strangers in general and males more specifically. Note that she only notified the ranger of the man. Kate recognises this inconsistency, but admits she will likely do the same again. Which beggars the question, If she is aware that what she did didn’t make sense why does she think she would act the same way? If we cannot have control over our own actions then who does?
loading...
I can’t beleive the discussions people are bringing up on these boards. Somehow it’s not acceptable to be cautious about strangers? She reported him to the ranger as someone to keep an eye out for. Not a molester, not as a paedophile. As someone to keep an eye out. In case he makes a habit of talking to 20 different young children a week which would be odd (unless you’re a teacher or something…) She reported it to the Rangers, not the police, not DOCS.
loading...
Yes, reported HIM and not HER. If you read my comment you have seen that I referred to rangers when talking about reporting all concerns to authorities in case of ‘what ifs’ occurring. What else might the rangers be doing instead of checking for this guy? How many other ‘reports’ would they be following up if people followed this example?
loading...
But they won’t be following it up – UNLESS other people report the same behaviour. In which case they SHOULD be following it up in case there is something wrong with this man. One report won’t really be looked at. The possibility of 5 about the same person would be.
loading...
But the fact is that it is by far the majority men who abduct, abuse and kill children. You can try and make this a gender issue but that is the facts.
loading...
This is the role of the rangers, or at least another local government division. To quote from one local government site “… Providing community safety advice; monitoring and Reporting suspicious Activity. It would free up their time to give out a few extra parking tickets though.
loading...
James Bullger was abducted by two children – is she going to report every little boy that talks to her child?
loading...
What a shockingly insensitive thing to say. A disgrace to anyone who knows what happened to that child.
Shame on you!
loading...
But Kate IS being vilified for her actions. Nowhere has she stated that she always reports any men her talk to her children without her permission or that reporting this kind of thing should be taken lightly. Quite possibly, I would not have myself.
The point here is that the only person who was there for the interaction is Kate, and you cannot judge her reaction as wrong or an over reaction when you do not know the words this person used, their non-verbal language or the full context of the situation. The only person who can determine if Kate’s reaction was irrational (other than the man himself) is Kate.
What ifs are very relevant actually. Many perpetrators of serious crimes are never convicted because there is not enough evidence and not enough information volunteered to give the police leads. While abductions are rare, catching the abductors/murders of many missing children is even rarer. The park ranger is hardly going to bail up every man who fits the old mans description who enters the park, but he/she will sure remember what Kate said if any further suspicious incidents are reported.
loading...
I don’t have children but as far as I’m concerned you did the right thing by listening to that awful feeling in the pit of your stomach – your instincts. If you feel a situation is not right then that is enough. It’s not like you had him hauled in for police questioning, you simple exercised caution. Nothing wrong with that.
loading...
It’s easy for me to say this because I wasnt there but I think Kate should have engaged this man in conversation and asked a few friendly questions herself such as do you live locally, do you come to the park often, whats the name of your dog, are you retired, do you have any grandkids. His responses may have allayed her fears.
I think calling the ranger was an over-reaction.
When my kids were toddlers, we moved interstate There was a lovely park near us which always seemed very busy at lunch time – lots of cars coming and going- despite there not being many children in the park. After a few weeks, the mums at playgroup informed me the toilet block was a known gay hangout. I had no idea.
Didnt stop us going to the park though.
loading...
This is what I would have done.
My daughter is extremely social and is always saying hello and engaging strangers in conversation. It worries me sure but Ive now stepped somewhat out of my own comfort zone and when she engages people in conversation when we are in the park or walking in our neighbourhood I join in and ask a little of the people she is chatting to.
Its actually because of my young daughter I now know our neighbours and several people that live in our neighbourhood.
loading...
Wasnt a park at chermside by any chance?
loading...
Firstly, I don’t understand all this talk of ‘instinct’, ‘gut instinct’, ‘mother’s instinct’. Do people mean intuition? If that is the case, fine, but instinct has nothing to do with it.
Instincts, in contrast, are inborn complex patterns of behavior that must exist in every member of the species and that cannot be overcome by force of will. Commonly cited examples of presumed instincts in humans are the “maternal instinct” and the “survival instinct”. These examples however do not conform to the scientific definition of instinct. Many human females do not desire children and furthermore some mothers kill their own children. Similarly, many humans contradict their own survival through suicide.
My second paragraph there is courtesy of that world-renowned, absolutely reputable fount of wisdom, wikipedia, so apologies for not coming up with something more original which describes the difference, but it is a Friday evening!
Secondly, why do some of us feel that it is appropriate to tar a whole demographic (in this instance, adult males) with the same brush. Someone wrote below something along the lines of imagine if we treating Muslims really inappropriately and then them to take it up with al-Qaeda if they have a problem with it (I believe that that was in response to one of Nina’s comments around innocent men – and I’m paraphrasing here – should blame the males who are sex offenders and paedophiles for their treatment, rather than women). That comment was absolutely spot on and I notice that Nina doesn’t seem to have addressed that.
Finally, we can talk all we want about how this is how ‘society’ is today. Guess what? We *are* society. The combination of all of us, our behaviours and actions. We can’t merely lament that good, decent men are being treated this way because that is how society is. We are making it this way. Yes, child abuse happens – far, far too frequently. We are in a time where this is being spoken about more than ever before so perhaps we feel as though it is happening more than ever before. And yes, child pornography has increased drastically with the advent of the internet.
We owe it to ourselves and to our children to address this through age-appropriate education, through better international cooperation and investment for law enforcement for child pornography, through tighter enforcement of child trafficking and sex tourism and through government policy that is adaptive and responsive to technology and other trends in committing these horrible crimes.
But really, do we have to deny our children the pleasure of simple (supervised) conversations with adult men in public places?
loading...
What an interesting story. I always love it when someone takes the time to unpack their gut reaction to something. When I first read it, I thought you may have over-reacted.
But just a few moments later (spooky) a news report came on the radio about a 49 year old man who had been arrested and charged with grabbing a 6yo girl and trying to abduct her from a park while she was riding her scooter…….
loading...
Mia that’s ridiculous logic. I hear reports every day of children being abused by their parents – does that mean it’s reasonable for me to call the police if I see a child having a tantrum in the supermarket because there’s a chance they are being abused (and not just having a terrible two moment)? This guy was walking his dog in a public park and struck up a conversation. He didn’t do anything wrong. Calling the rangers is outrageous – and for all those saying that he would never know about it – how do you know? How do you know they haven’t pulled him up the next time he was in the park walking his dog and asked him questions about this situation?
loading...
Sorry I didn’t explain that very well – long day – but another example that just occured to me was the rash of paranoid and outlandish responses to muslim people following the 9/11 attacks. Under the guise of “better safe than sorry” many people were unfairly targeted by the community and police – the idea being was that they looked like the baddies, they gave us a “shiver” our gut instinct told us that something was wrong and different about them. We call that racism. I don’t know what the name is for what Kate did but it feels very similar to me. Someone fit into a stereotype that gave her the creeps and so she responded by calling in the police. She didn’t bother to talk to him, didn’t ask questions, did nothing to try and find out about this person. Yes it’s your role to protect your children, but not at the expense of other innocent people in the community who haven’t done anything remotely illegal.
loading...
I once lived in an apartment where the old man upstairs took a strong interest in my son who was then around 4.
He did nothing overtly worrying but my gut said something was up.
I was super super cautious about him for the rest of the time we lives there.
Who knows if I was right or wrong but was my vigilance more harmful than having something happen to my child?
We weren’t there in the park with Kate that day. We can’t know the ‘vibe’ of the situation.
Kids do get grabbed and assaulted in parks and public places. It happens.
loading...
Mia your actions in that situation sound perfectly reasonable to me. You have a strange feeling so you were super cautious – fine. You didn’t call the police because he gave you the heebie jeebies. That’s what I have a problem with – of course we all have instincts about things, we all have people that make us uncomfortable, but it’s not ok to call rangers on someone because of a feeling when there is absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing.
And yes, kids do get grabbed, but sadly the vast majority of abuse victims know their abusers. It’s rarely the old man at the park who stopped for a chat.
loading...
Kids also get assulted by females, and by family members Mia. It is sexist and against all logic to assume that it is only the ‘creepy old guy’ that is the possible threat. And Kate did say, afterall, that the old guy and mother talked to her daughter in much the same way, but of course, it was only the old guy that was the threat and who got reported. How about having sympathy for this bloke, especially if he gets accosted by authorities next time he dares walk near a play ground in a park and talks to someone. This is nuts and you seem to defend it.
loading...
Geez back off. mia had a funny feeling – we should all trust our instincts on all matters.
And I think that with children there is nothing wrong with being overcautious, they are so special.
loading...
hang on, you seem to forget there is another human with rights in this equation, the poor bloke that got reported to authorities for doing nothing more than talking to someone. Lets not forget that all humans have rights huh, not just mums with kids.
loading...
I disagree Louisec. Yes children are very special but so are other people. There is something wrong with being overcautious when it has an impact on someone else who has done nothing wrong! This man has been reported to rangers because of a paranoid mummy – he hadn’t done anything wrong. If she was so uncomfortable she should have left rather than letting him speak to her child. The world does not revolve around you, and your paranoia, just because you have a child. Other people have rights too.
loading...
She alerted the rangers which is exactly what she should have done. She didn’t say that he was a pedophile attacking children. She alerted them to the possibility that he may be a problem.
I believe that the biggest problem in society now is we stick our heads in the sand and do nothing. We’re all so wrapped up in our own lives we forget or refuse to look out for others.
After watching what happened to Daniel Morcombe and the woman that sat in her car and watched him with his abductor and did nothing – I now ring the police if I see any suspicious behaviour. I really wish everyone would do the same.
loading...
Ok so the rangers question the man and if he has nothing to hide and has done nothing wrong then fine. He’s not being persecuted. He’s asked a few questions, they check on him and if all good then that’s it.
As I said in my other post she didn’t tell the ranger he was abusing children et al. She said that she was concerned. THat’s fine. If he is innocent then that’s as far as it goes
What if he isn’t innocent and he’s grooming children? I would much prefer that rangers were aware of him then not.
loading...
I detest the Daily Mail but I just googled something that I remembered vaguely though I couldn’t remember the details. It is about a horrific case in the UK a few years ago where a female child care worker was convicted of child sex offences. I saw this quote from an article on the site by a former police officer working in child protection which I thought was really interesting:
‘The idea of women sexually abusing children in their charge is abhorrent to us all. How can it possibly be true?
But it is true, albeit in only a very small number of cases, and made easier for these women by the fact that they have access to children and, perhaps, most importantly of all, because we trust them implicitly.
And that, in turn, makes it so much more difficult for their young victims to raise the alarm. If a child came back from nursery complaining about a man having done something unusual to them, our suspicions would be raised in an instant.
But if they come back saying the nice, plump, smiley girl who looks after them has done something odd, we’d immediately assume our child had simply got the wrong end of the stick. Until the sordid events of this week.
I believe the sexual abuse of children by women is such an under-reported crime – by and large, we simply don’t believe it happens. But, as we all now know, it does.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1217800/The-Vanessa-George-case-reveals-hidden-face-female-depravity.html#ixzz219qPXbke
Anyway, it really made me think about our own perceptions towards women and the impact that this has on child sex crimes by women being reported and also how they’re treated when they are reported.
loading...
I went through a time in my life when I thought that I was very likely abused as a child. I actually opened my mind to the fact that it could have been my mum or dad. It was much more disturbing to think that it could have been my mum but I was trying to test all avenues. I asked both my parents’ if they knew of anyone who’d ‘interfered’ with myself or my sister. I was satisfied with their responses but it was amazing how many opportunities we could think of where it was possible, the beach, parties, BBQs etc when children were unsupervised for chunks of time.
Women commit offences too & sometimes mothers. It makes the skin crawl because it challenges our idea of women as caregivers & nurturers.
loading...
Why does this have to be turned into a gender issue?
You don’t know that if a woman had of behaved creepily towards the child, ignoring the mother and directly asking the child personal questions that she woudln’t have reported it to the rangers.
I know you’ll say “oh she wouldn’t have” but you dont’ know that.
You are making an assumption and turning this into a gender issue which it’s not.
It’s a story about a man approaching a young child and asking personal questions and the mother, naturally and responsibly, being alert.
If a woman approached my child and did the same I would report her to rangers also.
loading...
This is to Hellopetal, sorry no reply button underneath. If you don’t mind my asking (it is a delicate subject I know so don’t feel like you have to answer) why did you feel you may have been abused? There are many warning signs that childhood abuse has occurred. Where u experiencing these? I do hope you were able to go speak to a psychologist about it. I highly advise against hypnotherapy for this time of thing because suggest ability is so so high! I am interested in your story though. Im very relieved to hear you were satisfied with the answers tho.
loading...
To oliveblanche: I’d rather not discuss all the detail here. Suffice to say: nightmares, fears, but probably the kicker was being told directly by a boyfriend/sexual partner who’s best friend had been repeatedly abused that I displayed similar behaviours consistent with abuse based on his experience of helping who through her ordeal. Also patterns of behaviour in relationships that both my sister & I displayed made me think that it may have happened to us both, if it happened.
Yes I sort help. I was at uni at the time so I saw the student union counsellor. Then a few years ago when the issue of my rape surfaced & it got me thinking about it all again, I saw a psychologist.
To be honest, I think that the dysfunctional family life we had was enough to make my sister & I both vulnerable. I think it was was the pedophile chose me. I still to this day to not know 100% if anything truly happened when I was younger than that time but it no longer haunts me.
I hope this answers some of your questions & trust you understand why in this forum that is enough for me to disclose.
loading...
To respond to louisec: this becomes a gender issue when the article explores why someone (a man) made her feel in a particular way and another person (a woman with a child) did not make her feel that way, despite them acting more or less the same.
A number of comments have pointed to the fact that, statistically speaking, men are more likely to commit these crime than women. That is a gender issue.
I posted something which raises an interesting point about the rate at which women commit these crimes and the rate at which they are suspected/caught and how suspicions are treated.
I made no judgement or assumption as to whether the author acted the way she did because of gender differences. All I read was that both the man and the woman acted more or less the same – hence the point of the article.
Please do not untruthfully claim that I have made assumptions that I haven’t. Please do not claim to know what I’ll say, when you don’t.
I personally, as a woman, thought that the link in my previous comment added another dimension to the conversation – something interesting that many people (including myself) probably hadn’t considered.
If you don’t agree that it added anything, fine. But do not put words in my mouth nor claim that I had said or done things that I haven’t. Thank you.
loading...
The only thing is, the would-be abductor probably didn’t go and make himself known to that 6 year old’s mother!
I’ve realised what upsets me about this – it’s that my son and husband have aspergers and often make people feel uncomfortable. As they get older and ‘creepier’, is this their future? My son is already bullied for being different, doesn’t seem like a huge leap to me.
loading...
You know what…..that did not even occur to me.i suppose there is a possibility this man had aspergers and did not realize he he was going against social norms. I do hope for wider awareness of aspergers. It would make life a lot easier for a lot of people. The only thing for your situation I would suggest practicing these social norms over and over again. I know it’s not that simple but perhaps meeting people and telling your husband and son to always say hello to the adult or parent first will alleviate any discomfort further down the track. I’m so sorry your son is being bullied.
as a society our limited knowledge on these issues usually does result in the innocent being persecuted and hurt. Please know their are people out there who care and do want change to occur.
loading...
You know that “shiver moment”, that’s your instincts . ALWAYS trust your gut instincts.
loading...
You know that “shiver moment” , that’s your intuition . ALWAYS trust your intuition. ( trust your instincts, trust your intuition, either way , you know know what I’m talking about)
loading...
It’s one thing to teach your children to understand and respect their intuition.
But adults must remember to listen to kids when they are trying to express that someone makes them feel uncomfortable.
loading...
I was actually talking about Kates’ ‘shiver moment’ , being her intuition or gut feeling , and to trust what she had felt. Obviously we , as adults, should ALWAYS , listen to our kids when they say something or someone makes them feel uncomfortable.
loading...
I agree with that. Intuition and gut feelings are never just random.
They’re the physical sign of your lifetime of knowledge and experience.
Listen!!!!!
loading...
so, every time you get a gut feeling, ring the authorities, even if nothing wrong happened. If you just think someone looks odd or creepy, get them off the streets, is that it Mia?
How about also acknowleding that over reactions can happen, and that people deserve to not be reported for doing nothing wrong other than talking to someone in a park.
loading...
no one’s saying that every time you get a ‘gut feeling’ about someone, that you should run off and ring the authorities. But you can be damn sure , If I get a feeling that something’s not right, I’ll watch my kid a little bit closer and I’ll watch that person a little bit closer too.
loading...
sure, agree, but as for the fact nobody is saying run off and ring the authorities, um, well, yes they are, as in that was the whole point of the article, that was exactly what happened.
loading...
anonymous, you missed the point. I know what the article was about , but I was responding to the wounded bull ,who had responded to Mia. about her experience with a man in her apartment block. Mia didn’t ring the authorities , but she had a gut feeling about the guy. That’s what we were talking about, OK. So don’t worry about me getting the point of the whole article, I got it.
loading...
Bit odd that the man made no effort to talk to the mother, who was standing right there. He only engaged the child. I don’t think he ‘did nothing wrong’. He behaved in an odd/socially unacceptable way, and accordingly her suspicions were raised. Maybe if creepy old man wants to talk to kids he should ask their Mother first.
loading...
she said the mother did the exact same thing. She didnt report her.
loading...
anonymous, if you read Kates story again, you’ll realise the mother didn’t do the exact same thing. the mother with the child , was standing near her child who was interacting with Kates child. yes she did only talk to the child, but it was because her child was also talking . THE BIG DIFFERENCE . The old man walked up to her child, interacted only with her child, eyeballed the child and said hope to see you again, Seriously, there’s a big difference , and my gut would of been in knots too about it. That is not normal behavior in most peoples books .
loading...
Errrm Mia is correct on this. She’s not saying anything other than trust your instincts. That why we as humans have them. I’ve noticed you have attacked every comment Mia has posted in a very personal manner. I must say its making me feel very uncomfortable. You seem so angry lately Wounded Bull. Are you ok?
loading...
You can NEVER be too cautious when it comes to your babies. Maybe you’re overreacting or maybe you’ve just saved your little girl’s life. I’d rather be silly and embarrassed than risk my child.
I was once in a situation at a bus stop where I believe I was the target of an abduction attempt. My gut told me so and I am glad to this day that I acted as I did and scared the person off.
ALWAYS trust your gut.
loading...
what about the rights of the bloke in all of this. People have the right to go about their business without being reported for looking odd, or being overly friendly. Your rights dont trump his, despite what many on here might think.
loading...
I don’t see how this blokes rights were trampled over?
The park ranger as far as i see it will now be more aware of an elderly man walking his dog and can keep his eye out for suspicious behaviour. This man nor any other man will not be stopped from walking in the park, but suspicious behaviour will be monitored, I don’t think thats a bad thing?
And if the man is told of the report (although i don’t see how this could happen) he may also become more aware of mothers fears and talk to them as well as the child to help alleviate such fears.
loading...
“go about their business” – are you serious?! really?!
You think that a stranger man or woman going up to a child, ignoring the mother, and asking the child personal questions was “going about their business”?
He was doing everything BUT “going about his business”.
loading...
she said the mother did the same thing, why wasnt she reported.
loading...
the only ‘same thing’ was that the child was only spoken to. The big difference is the scenarios. The woman only spoke to the child because her child was also interacting with the child. The old man made a point of going up to the child , talking with only the child, engaged only with the child, and spoke of hoping to see her again only. That is not normal behavior for anybody, man , woman, old man, old woman , whatever.
loading...
Always trust your instinct.
Its something that as women we have been brought up to ignore. The mantra growing up was to be polite to everyone, despite if I felt uncomfortable with them or not.
I wonder if Kate felt uncomfortable because he was an elderly gent alone, or because of something else? (ie instinct)
loading...
Always, always listen to your gut instinct. Never apologise for protecting your children.
I would recommend to everyone to read the ‘ the gift of fear’ and ‘protecting the gift’ both by Gavin de becker.
I have no doubt what was setting off your reaction was the language he used, his body language and the way he manipulated your child into answering questions and giving out private information.
It is these signs or interactions that we cannot judge as a description of the interaction in the park conveys none of this.
YOU were there. You felt uncomfortable. So uncomfortable that you were thinking about it later, and to the point that it prompted you to report it.
Only you can make that call.
loading...
Both my Dad and my stepdad are AWESOME with little kids. I know my Dad would happily chat away to wee kids and build a rapport – but he is CRAP with adults. So I can kind of see this happening to him
He’d not harm a fly.
In fact, a few years ago we were in the city and we came across a mother sitting in the gutter hysterical (no idea what the back story was) and her wee boys (about 4 and 5) standing bewildered beside her not knowing what to do. The Mum wouldn’t respond to us. Dad was amazing with the wee boy, asking him his name and keeping him calm and calling the police and totally winning them over. I’ll have to ask him if anyone ever thinks he is a weirdo in other situations.
Also, my stepdad is a bit of a dude and likes riding his mountain bike more than anything (he is nearly 60!!)… My Mum had to have a bit of a chat to him when he took to riding it on the BMX track with some of the local kids as it wasn’t really appropriate. All he really wanted was to ride his bike round the track too …. but these days you just can’t – meaning that someone would almost certainly be reporting him. Sad really.
loading...
My dad he’s 75, is very old fashioned, and would quite happily have a long conversation with a child he didn’t know, not realizing that it is probably quite odd to that child’s parents that he hasn’t acknowledged them. I’ve seen him do it when we’ve been out.. And he does get wierd looks, even though he means no harm. Sometimes the older generations don’t get the p.c’ness of the times. I have 4 kids and have been in several situations where I have felt uncomfortable so have taken my kids home. I think we should never judge anyone for doing what they feel is right if it does not hurt anyone. The old man in this situation would not have known that she had reported him, so no harm was done, but if other people had also complained about him over time if they too felt something about him then that’s a good thing.
loading...
Both my Dad and my stepdad are AWESOME with little kids. I know my Dad would happily chat away to wee kids and build a rapport – but he is CRAP with adults. So I can kind of see this happening to him
He’d not harm a fly.
In fact, a few years ago we were in the city and we came across a mother sitting in the gutter hysterical (no idea what the back story was) and her wee boys (about 4 and 5) standing bewildered beside her not knowing what to do. The Mum wouldn’t respond to us. Dad was amazing with the wee boy, asking him his name and keeping him calm and calling the police and totally winning them over. I’ll have to ask him if anyone ever thinks he is a weirdo in other situations.
Also, my stepdad is a bit of a dude and likes riding his mountain bike more than anything (he is nearly 60!!)… My Mum had to have a bit of a chat to him when he took to riding it on the BMX track with some of the local kids as it wasn’t really appropriate. All he really wanted was to ride his bike round the track too …. but these days you just can’t.
loading...
I am extremely protective of my 4 kids, I don’t believe there is such a thing as ‘over protective’, I have been in a few of these situations. I normally just start answering for my kids, removing them from the conversation, then my kids run off and I end up have a chat
loading...
Love Life, do you ever get worried that by hijacking your childrens’ conversations, they will grow up without any idea about how to speak to people older than they are?
I believe there is such a thing as overprotective, and that it can have an impact on a child’s social development in the long term. Children need to understand normal adult interaction for them to develop their instincts for right and wrong when they’re talking to adults.
I have on a number of occasions spoken to a child (with the mother present), only to have them act uncomfortable or say something inappropriate because it was obvious that they rarely spoke to adults outside their family.
As a non-threatening late-20s female, I have no doubt that the only reason my conversation with the child wasn’t hijacked was because of my age and gender. But that didn’t stop the child’s awkwardness from resonating with me.
By all means stand beside your child, hold their hand or start your own conversation with the other adult but letting your child speak for themselves will serve them well in the future.
Well, that’s what my experience has taught me anyway. But hey, I let my kids make mud pies and climb trees too.
loading...
HI Elga, Mine make mud pies in the trees.
My boys are older now 11 and 9 and have no trouble making conversation with there peers, elders, dogs, cats, babies, so I dont feel the need to ‘hijack’ thier conversation with stranger, they are well adjusted and I feel proud that I have assisted them to that level of maturity….
my girls are younger and I feel they do not need to be made to feel uncomfortable in this situation in order to ‘grown up’…..
you mentioned you ‘have on a number of occasions spoken to a child (with the mother present), only to have them act uncomfortable or say something inappropriate’…I have trouble comprehending why anyone would want to continue on a conversation with a child if they a clearly uncomfortable??
loading...
Love Life, the likelihood that your children would feel “uncomfortable”, with their distinct lack of life experience and knowledge of the bad things in the world is slim.
Exposing them to appropriate, supervised interactions with adults while they’re young will not only help with their social development, but it will also develop their intuition for what an inappropriate interaction with an adult is, be it something they shouldn’t be sharing or a situation that threatens their safety.
Regarding the child acting uncomfortable, she had disclosed her mother’s (very sensitive) medical condition. I had very unthreateningly told her that it was mummy’s secret, but I wouldn’t tell anyone.
While trying to comprehend that she’d shared something she shouldn’t have, she seemed quite uncomfortable. I didn’t continue the conversation, but pointed to the games that my kids were playing with and asked her if she’d like to play too.
Children don’t need to be uncomfortable to develop a sense of right and wrong when speaking to adults, Love Life. They need their parents to guide them. What they don’t need is their parents to take over.
loading...
I didn’t mean for my last comment to sound argumentative, Love Life. Those are just my opinions and I’m glad that we all have an opportunity to share ours on this forum.
I applaud you for doing what you think is right for your children, it’s all we can do
loading...
No worries Elga, the first paragraph of your last comment though…”ouch” hurt just a bit…
loading...
Well said, Elga. My thoughts exactly.
loading...
I’m sure if it was an old woman walking her dog you wouldn’t have reported it, on the contrary you might have thought she was a sweet old lady. Everyone is just too paranoid these days.
My grandpa used to take me and my sister to the playground, and he’d take pictures of us playing, so he could frame ‘his two princesses’. I’m sure he’d get reported in an instant if it happened these days!
loading...
Ditto, Prima. My grandfather was the best you could ever hope for. He took us out by himself more times than I could count. He would kiss a skinned knee, give us hugs when we jumped into his arms and watch us while we played, never missing a second.
He would pick us up from school rain, hail or shine, chatting to other kids and their parents while he waited for us. I truly believe that those years were the best he’d had since his own children had left home.
He passed away in 2002, suffering from Alzheimer’s before he passed. I hope that the memories of those glorious, joy-filled days with his young children and grandchildren comforted him long after his suffering began.
It breaks my heart to think that now, so many grandfathers are missing out on affection and quality time with their grandkids because of overprotective people who see the worst in every situation.
Or worse, that those aren’t blessed with nearby grandchildren can’t even walk their pet and enjoy the gorgeous sound of children’s laughter without wearing the suspicion of being a pervert.
loading...
If I saw an older man with two chldren in a park, obviously engaging with each other, probably saying cheese for the camera, I wouldn’ be reporting it….just saying
loading...
I had the loveliest grandfather. Very kind, sweet and went out of his way to make kids feel special. He was a widower who used to walk his dog through the park and I would be horrified if someone ever thought he was a pedophile. I know that we live in a time of super vigilance but surely the lesson here is to educate your children, not assume everyone is a criminal of some kind!!
loading...
Michelle he sounds lovely and I’ll be that being a good person and a gentleman he would have introduced himself to the mother and spoken with her.
loading...
I can understand why a mother would feel creeped out by an old man who goes out of his way to talk to the kid, but makes no effort to put the mum at ease by at least making eye contact with her. I hate it when people treat me as invisible when I am standing right there.
I can imagine how this would have made the writer feel creepy. But calling the police? That was over the top.
I do wonder, however, why the writer didn’t feel the need to talk to the other mother in the park. I experience this all the time, but from the other side. I talk to and play with other peoples’ kids in the park all the time, and I’ve lost track of the the number of times the other child’s mother/father/whatever won’t even bother to look up from her/his smartphone to acknowledge me, let alone the fact that I am playing with their kids.
Maybe if we all tried a little harder to create a sense of community — you know, talk to each other in public places, smile — we would have more of a sense of trust; or at least as sense that we could count on the other parents in the park to keep a watchful eye out over our kids. Then maybe the old man in the park wouldn’t feel so threatening.
Just a thought.
loading...
Hey Another mummy in the park, we should hang out! I’m always playing with other people’s kids at parks (& my own of course). Most parents will acknowledge me even if they aren’t interested in playing with us. Personally if another adult was playing with my & their kids & I didn’t know them, I would go over & say hi & check in on my daughter. But perhaps I’m too overprotective & park time is play time for us.
We do need to re-develop some trust though. In our family, we smile at people who walk past & say hi usually including the few regular dog walkers we see. There was an info morning for a new kindy that’s being built locally & there was a real cross-section of people who turned out to see the plans for the site. We forget sometimes, enclaved in parenthood, that there’s a whole world of people out there.
loading...
Amen!
loading...
I’d be wary of anyone who approaches a playground without kids, engages with my children, asks lots of questions then hopes to see them again. I don’t think it’s wrong to feel uncomfortable in the above situation. I think it’s healthy.
loading...
Playgrounds in every neighbourhood is a relatively new thing. The old man walking his dog had probably been doing so for much longer than the play equipment had been there.
Saying “hope to see you again” is polite. The modern bastardisation of this is see you later. I say it to just about everyone when ending a conversation, including people I’ve never met before or will again.
Engaging with people should not be uncomfortable. Doing it more often might help you understand their motives a little better.
Five years ago, I could go for a jog and get a smile and “hello” or “morning” from nearly every person I passed. Nowadays, most won’t even look at me, let alone return my smile and greeting.
Are you sure that “healthy” isn’t just a cover for losing any sense of community and understanding of other human beings?
loading...
In the above scenario? Nah. I walk our dog everyday and say hi to everone I pass, it does still happen!
loading...
I live by the beach and lots of people walk in the mornings and evenings by themselves and with dogs. I find the mornings a particularly friendly time when people, esp those with a dog will chat.
loading...
Same, Rebecca. Everyone says hi walking along the bike/walking path along the beach or at the parks. It’s taken me a while to get used to it (Sydney girl moved to the Gong), but I’m cool with it now.
loading...
That’s really sad. I’d be so weirded out if someone from my neighborhood didn’t say hello while walking past! That in my neighborhood counts as suspect behavior.
loading...
As a question to the MM community… what do you think a person can say if they are feeling uncomfortable but if they don’t want to offend someone who may just be a nice person who is unaware that they are making you uncomfortable?
Is it appropriate to say ‘Sorry I don’t mean to be rude but we are teaching our daughter about boundaries and this week we are getting her to practice saying ‘no’ to strangers’? LOL. I know that sounds so ridiculous… even just writing that it sounds wierd… but the point is this… what IS the socially acceptable way to let someone know that you are feeling uncomfortable?
Cos chances are that if you ARE feeling uncomfortable, they have made a socail violation of some sort or other- however minor. But that doesn’t mean that you also want to make a social violation by yelling at them or accusing them of anything… this stuff is very very tricky…
Anyone got any suggestions?
loading...
Don’t worry about “socially acceptable” – if you don’t want to talk to someone, you don’t need to explain yourself. If they get upset, that’s their issue.
Too often polite, nice people get reeled into situations they aren’t comfortable in because they’re trying not to ruffle feathers.
Shy, private, introverted people are always deemed aloof or rude and that’s one social attitude that needs to change – if you don’t want to talk to a stranger or do something you don’t like doing and if it’s going to make you uncomfortable to do so then so be it. If it makes someone uncomfortable that you don’t speak to them then it’s just a situation where both people can’t be pleased.
loading...
I think we need to teach our kids to be more than “passive recipients” of whatever the world throws at them. That means teaching them to be assertive.
If an old man in the park makes you, the mother, feel uneasy because he ignores you while talking only to your child, you should insert yourself into the conversation. Make him talk to you, so that you can test your instincts a little better. It doesn’t have to be rude, or direct: “Hello. It’s a lovely day isn’t it? What’s your dog’s name? Do you live around here? Do you have grandchildren?”
If he seems particularly cagey talking to you, and is only interested in the child, well, that’s creepy. Or, it may just turn out he’s a nice, lonely man. Your instinct will tell you a lot. And if you feel like he’s a creepy man, you can tell your child as much: “That man gives mummy a bad feeling. You need to stay away from him.”
loading...
Hi Suggestion
Yes that’s what I said lower on. But a few peeps got the cranks with me for saying so- so I’m just putting it out there. How WAS the woman supposed to behave? I appreciate there is no right or wrong in this- as this thread has demonstrated…
loading...
Why not join in the convo and take it from there? And don’t totally freak out and run away screaming if it is getting creepy.
I think it’s awful that this man had the rangers called just for having a conversation. Especially when the mum was there.
loading...
“if it is getting creepy, don’t totally freak out” Seriously, how creepy does it have to get before you freak out kris2040?
loading...
I’m saying don’t lose it and freak out screaming “Stay away from my kid you MONSTER!”. Use your commonsense and get yourself out of there so your kid isn’t freaking out either. And if it is (as is the most likely scenario) a harmless old bloke having a chat, they don’t get freaked out either.
Be a bloody adult.
loading...
“Cos chances are that if you ARE feeling uncomfortable, they have made a socail violation of some sort or other- however minor.”
This really isn’t true for a lot of people. I’m constantly uncomfortable around people, not because they lack social skills, but because I do. I know a lot of people who are like me, and we often find themselves most uncomfortable around the kinds of incredibly personable people who don’t put a foot wrong in social situations. I can deal with a rude or innapropriate person just fine, but a friendly stranger trying to pass the time by chatting with me while we wait at a bus stop makes my stomach churn. If I was less self aware I imagine I could put that down to intuition and gut feelings, but I know it’s a problem on my end.
It depends on the situation, but in a case like the above the simplest thing to do is to simply interrupt and politely say you have to be going. Then talk to your child about boundaries and so on if you feel it’s necessary. When you have no reason to suspect anyone’s motives it doesn’t do any good to make someone feel weird about being friendly.
loading...
Hi Anonymous- actually to my mind if someone is making chit chat with you at the bus stop and you give them a polite nod but don’t respond and they keep going- that IS a social violation. they have not taken the time or effort to read your body language. it’s not you that’s making the social violation there- I would say it;s them…absolutely no question about it.
And thanks for the suggestion. I think you are right. Step 1) seek extra information about the situation to clarrify what it going on.
loading...
To me, the most important thing is that your radar went off and your gut instinct told you there was something not quite right about the situation.
Maybe it’s wrong that you judged him in that way. And there are a lot of reasons as to why this judgement might exist. I do, for the record, think it’s sad that such a stigma is held against men with children – I have some male friends who adore kids and would love to babysit like I do sometimes, but who would never be trusted to do the same job.
But at the end of the day, when those internal alarm bells go off, I think it’s better to be safe than sorry.
loading...
Safe, as in move away politely, sure, but to report him to authorities???
loading...
I’m not sure about that. I didn’t witness the exchange so I won’t make a call as to whether it was right or wrong. I might have done the same thing if I was feeling really alarmed – but I guess nobody really knows what they will do until they are put in the situation.
loading...
Her discription above makes it clear that the conversation with the man and the other mother was just about the same, so therefore I doubt she was justified in this action. Based upon the above description of what happened, it is a pretty clear cut over reaction that could affect that poor man significantly.
loading...
I’m not a mother myself, but maybe one day (or maybe not…The future is a fragile looking glass, that changes with every passing moment.) However, I am what you might term OVER-involved with the local netball association. Particularly in the umpiring and coaching department, as are many women (young and old). Unfortunately, it’s very rare to see any male counterparts. This is understandable, netball is predominately a women’s sport. Nothing wrong with that. But, when a father or a grandfather does put their hand up to help out, they are usually scrutinised from afar through narrowed peepers. It’s sad.
For example, we have one particularly engaged father, who loves the sport almost as much (if not more) than me. He’s never played before, but his daughter’s have done so for years, and he thought it was about time he stepped forward and involved himself. So, he began the painstaking journey through the ranks. Almost achieving a National B-badge in umpiring before a fatal knee injury. Now, he regularly mentors younger umpires, who happen to be younger females, usually aged between 12-17.
From 8.30 on a Saturday morning to 5pm he is around. Constantly. From May to September. Majority of parents are aware of who he is, and what he does. But, on one occasion, while mentoring two young umpires, in conjunction with a female mentor. He was approached by a mother and asked what he was doing and why he was doing it. He handled the situation calmly, backed by his fellow mentor. Yet, the mother complained to the association, and reprimanded them for their carelessness. Now he has to don a completely white uniform, so those who aren’t aware of who he is, can identify him. In conjunction with a large blue NAME TAG.
This is ridiculous. This gentleman is lovely. Truly. Good to have a laugh with, and more courteous to those around him than many of the other volunteers. And, he goes through all of this, just to help out and involve himself with a sport he’s grown to love.
loading...
This makes me really angry. So because of one irriational jerk, he has to wear a uniform to prove he’s not a creepy pedophile? That is unfair. I wish the netball association told the complainer where to stick it.
loading...
Why not get him to wear a yellow star while he’s at it.
Disgusting. There are working with children clearances that come with mandatory police checks. He should just show that and then tell her to get lost.
loading...
Godwin’s Law – you lose.
loading...
pseudo academic techno babble, so I think it is you that loses lulu.
loading...
Another Anon Guy, I believe he has one. Would you believe he’s actually a policeman, as well?
loading...
Should clarify, I didn’t mean a yellow star of David
. I meant a Working with Children Check. That’s probably pretty obvious, but just in case.
loading...
Policeman? Who loves helping out in kids sport? My ovaries just exploded!
loading...
That makes me so sad. And so pleased that the association with which I have been involved does welcome the few male umpires that we have.
Another terrible thing is that he would have to hold up the fact that he’s a father as proof that he is not doing anything untoward, when really he should be able to be involved for his own reasons and not have to have a connection to a particular woman in the club.
loading...
The myth of stranger danger perpetuated. Makes good telly and good copy and just adds to our parental anxieties. In my opinion the writer describes a fairly over the top reaction to some safe interaction with someone from in the her community.
Interesting isn’t it that this forums does not have lots of stories of people’s abuse at the hands of strangers, but when there are articles on Mamamia that touch on sexual abuse and domestic violence the forums are full or people’s personal survival stories of abuse at the hands of relatives and friends. I think we desperately need some perspective on this topic firstly, so we stop stressing about stuff like chatty men in parks and secondly, so we concentrate on giving our children what they need to help keep themselves safe.
loading...
“this forums does not have lots of stories of people’s abuse at the hands of strangers”
Read the comments in this thread – I saw a couple of comments on that subject.
loading...
A couple in 150+ comments. And I am not minimising the offence to those people. Just saying it is not on the same scale as assaults to children by known and trusted people.
loading...
Great article Kate.
This really resonated with me. I don’t have kids but that niggling fear or judgement is something I really sympathised with.
And like you, I know it is wrong. I know I should assume the best of people and not the worst. But you can’t help your initial judgement.
But you see so many movies and TV shows that fill you with dread and you hear horror stories every day from friends and family – so you’re instantly a little wary. Had I been in your situation, I don’t think I would ever have reported it – I would have put it down to my own insecurities.
Then again, imagine if something DID happen in that park and your intuition had been correct and you hadn’t done anything. I would have felt a little responsible – even thought that is totally irrational – so even though I disagree with the choice to report it, I can see why you did.
The male/female fear thing is also really interesting to me. I know when I’m walking home at night on my own, I will never feel nervous if I see a woman my age nearby. I don’t flinch or feel worried in the slightest but if it’s a guy who to me feels intimidating, I might cross the street or walk a bit faster. It’s irrational but it’s how I feel.
Anyway – you’ve raised a heap of interesting questions with this one!
loading...
As human beings we constantly are making risk assessments and ‘judgement’ calls (for the most part, subconciously and in split seconds).
the facts are theyour life experince has taught you that a woman around your own age is less of a risk fact then a male in the same situation. It is not irrational at all- in fact that reaction is extremely logical- it is based on all the available facts and knowledge that you have aquired overd your life time.
if your tummy tightens in aknot and your heart beats faster, it is because there are physiological reactions going on to something you have observed (either conciously or sub conciously). trust those feelings- they are rarely wrong.
loading...
One had kids, one didn’t. I’d have a lot less trust for someone of either sex there talking to my child, without a child of their own. I would tend to trust an old guy with a dog though.
loading...
why?
loading...
I will presume your why is the dog part? I guess I trust animal people and old people, so an old guy with a (nice) dog would seem more trustworthy to me.
I’m not saying that a pervert couldn’t use a dog as a prop, or that I would let my kid go off with an old guy with a dog, but he would seem like more of a nice person than if it was a younger man or woman with no child and no dog. THAT would be weird.
As a woman with no dog and no child, if I smile at or wave back to or say hi to a random kid I make sure I make eye contact with and sometimes say hi to their parent too.
Making contact with only the child is also weird.
loading...
“One had kids, one didn’t.”
That’s the difference – if the old guy had had a grandchild with him instead of a dog, the situation would have been different.
loading...
why? An older person out on their own is most likely a parent and grand parent even though they dont have a minor with them at that moment. Is having a kid with you a badge of honour is it? Hogwash.
loading...
No, but having a kid with you is proof that you have a kid, duh
loading...
Having a kid with you isn’t proof that you don’t abuse children. duh.
loading...
Of course not, but Lulu said it would be different if there was a kid. I would think the author would of reacted differently to the older man if he had a child with him, rather than a dog. That doesn’t have anything to do with whether he actually assaults children, just to do with the assumptions people make.. It would certainly of given him a friendlier vibe.
loading...
and not looking for a kid…
loading...
And having a kid with you is a good reason for interacting with another kid. For heavens sake, even as a woman, I know that if *I* started that kind of interaction with a small child in a park, it would be weird & rude.
loading...
That is a very sad statement lulu. Why cant adults talk to kids (especially when a parent is by their side) for heavens sake.
loading...
I don’t think having a dog makes a person any more or less trust worthy. That’s an irrational thing to judge a situation on.
loading...
That’s your opinion. Dog people may disagree. Maybe it’s because I trust the dog?
And feelings and rationality aren’t always in tune.
loading...
For a long time after my separation and divorce, I would go to parks wheree kids were playing just to hear the happy noises that kids make when they are playing, I missed my kids something terrible and by going to a park where there were kids I was able to get some sense of normality that my own kids were ok when they weren’t with me. I dunno if it helped or not, or if anyone thought I was creepy, but there are a lot of men out there who do mourn for their kids post separation so you never know the reasons for the presence of a bloke in a park.
loading...
I’m sorry to hear that. It’s extremely sad when separation leads to long stretches of time without access to children.
But this was about someone making one on one focussed contact with a child they didn’t know while completely ignoring the parent. I doubt you did that
loading...
Uuuh. Just… sad. Did he hurt your kid? Did he touch her? Did he try to lure her into the bushes.
Sure Kate, maybe you saved the children of the world of a disgusting old pedophile.
Or maybe in your paranoid self-righteousness you reported a friendly, lonely, gentle old man to police for daring to strike up conversation with a child in the park.
loading...
Why don’t you report your husband/partner/boyfriend to police instead? Because guess what, many more kids are abused by these people than by strangers in the park.
Then ask him how it feels.
loading...
I agree Just Sad,
I posted this further down
……. I am curious, do you also teach your child that she needs to be careful of all males in her life? Her father, uncles, grandfather, cousins, religious leaders etc etc?
because you know she is more likely to be abused by one of these people right?
So if you really want to make sure your child is safe, you will tell her about all types of danger wouldn’t you?
I am amazed at how many parents talk about how much they have told their children about stranger danger etc but will never ever mention the more likely scenario of a friend or family member.
loading...
I spend more time talking to my kids about people they know. My kids know that not even daddy is allowed to touch their private parts (my husband is on board with this as well) we brainstorm all sorts of situations together…”what would you do if a friend said…asked you to touch….” etc) I think it would have been beneficial for the author to have a conversation with her daughter about what the man was saying, did it make her feel uncomfortable? And what would she do if a man like that asked her to go with him, or help him with something. As for calling the rangers, it’s not like she called the police (everyone seems to think it was the police) the rangers will just keep an eye out and if something did happen then I’m sure they could call her back for more info.
My son (4yrs) once ran ahead of us in th shopping centre into the family room we came in a few minutes later trying to catch up with him and found him inside the toilet with anman just standing there. My husband asked the man what he was doing an he took off pretty quick, my son had just stood silently in shock. Another opportunity for a discussion and we sure as he’ll reported the man to security.
loading...
So you reported a man for walking his dog, being in a park and talking to your child while you were present, just what law did he break for you to report him to authorities?
Perhaps you need to spend some time on the Free Range Kids website.
loading...
As I just posted further down I just spoke to the rangers and explained what had happened & they said they’d keep an eye on the park. Along with the security patrols in our area, that’s their job. We also have neighbourhood watch around here so it was along those lines, not to chase him down or anything. No harm in keeping an eye on your neighbourhood. Anyway, over and out from me & thanks to everyone for reading. Glad it got you thinking.
loading...
But you are missing the point, he did not do anything wrong so what did you report him for??
Why would you call the rangers to report a man walking his dog in a public park who stopped and talked to a child with a parent present?????
I dont understand what there was to report?
loading...
She reported the incident – not like ‘reporting’ to police. And if the park rangers get reports about the same kind of incident from other people, they may become concerned (understandably).
loading...
yeah, we can’t have random acts of conversation and sociability continuing unabated, can we lulu. For gods sake people, lets get a grip here.
loading...
If random old men stop approaching little girls, it’s not stopping them approaching you, so what are you worried about?
loading...
oh yes, those evil ‘randon old men’. Why dont we gas them maybe, be rid of the problem completely.
loading...
Let’s please keep the debate reasonable and respectful. Thanks.
loading...
Wounded Bull – I often read your comments and disagree but you have me sitting here saying YES YES YES to every comment…no need for me to say any more.
loading...
Again I ask, what did she report?
A man in a public park walking his dog who talked to a child with a parent present.
Please someone tell me what he did wrong that she had to report him?
What was the reportable offence???
loading...
A chat is an “incident” now? Wow.
loading...
If 5 women have the same gut feeling, is that enough evidence to convict him of being ‘creepy’ and get an AVO so he can’t approach the park?
loading...
Don’t even suggest it, AAG, or the umbilical mummy brigade will try it.
Unfortunately, that doesn’t stop the overprotective parents of the world looking for an authority to report to when anyone with a Y chromosome looks at them cross eyed.
I am already embarrassed for the old man, who will undoubtedly be accosted by the park rangers the next time he dares show some sense of community and friendliness.
loading...
If his behaviour worried you so much you should have removed your daughter from the situation. You felt compelled to call the rangers to report the situation but at the time did nothing to take your daughter out of it? What a passive aggressive and awful way to have dealt with the situation. He was a man walking in the park with his dog. You allowed him to have a conversation with your daughter and then went home to call the fuzz because the conversation that you allowed to happen was creepy. Nice.
loading...
Yeah, I think it was passive aggressive too. A few people were walking their dogs down at the park the other day (the equipment is in the middle) and people cross the bit with the equipment with their dogs. If they say hi to the kids, say hi yourself. Don’t let it go then call the rangers about it later. To report someone walking their dog and having a chat to a kid.
loading...