Sami Lukis is almost 40. She wants to have a baby – always has – and she’s single. So are a lot of other women who, for a variety of reasons, are straining at the edges of their fertility – or have passed it altogether. She’s now trying to get pregnant through IVF and there is no father in the picture.
Columnist (and mother) Susie O’Brien, writing for the Herald Sun and The Punch, argues that the technology exists to leave actual men out of the equation almost entirely (sperm notwithstanding). And if a woman wants dearly enough to have a child, shouldn’t she avail herself of all the options to increase her chances?
This is the million dollar (baby) question. Susie spoke to media personality Sami Lukis, about the concept.
“I asked TV and radio personality Sami Lukis whether she was worried about her child not having a biological father. Did she think some people might see her as selfish for putting her own needs to be a mum before the needs of her child to have both a mum and dad?
But as she sees it – and I agree – “having children is the least selfish thing you can do”.
“You are giving all your heart and affection and attention to another human being,” she said. “These days there are many different versions of families today and my child will have some wonderful male role models. It’s about putting the child first, this child is so wanted, it will be so loved,’’ she said.
And in the end, isn’t that the only thing that really matters?”
Sami’s journey to motherhood is being documented by LifeStyleYou in a series called Australians Exposed. You can follow more as the doco unfolds but now we want to introduce you to Nicky, who has also been searching for the right moment and the right way to have a baby. But sometimes you can’t wait forever. And sometimes, your choices are drastically limited. Nicky writes:
“I’ve wanted a baby since I was 15 years old. Too early, I understand, so through a marriage and two long term relationships, I patiently waited for my significant other at the time to tell me he was ready to have a baby with me.
But simply wanting a baby is never enough. And fate had other plans (as did the men in my life). So it was that a few years ago I looked at a calendar and realised I was forty. Forty, divorced, single and childless. What options are there for an older, single woman who desperately wants a baby? I’m glad you asked.
USING A SPERM DONOR
On my 41st birthday I made the decision to have a baby on my own. Thankfully I was living in the US at the time. Why? In Australia sperm banks wont deal with a woman if she’s single. That’s why so many single Australian women are now turning to the American sperm banks for donors.
Online sperm shopping is a rather bizarre experience. You can choose everything about your baby daddy including height, weight, hair color, hair texture, eye color and of course religion. When you first look at the number of donors, it’s daunting, but once you whittle it down with your choices, it becomes manageable. I had a specific religion and eye color, so there were maybe 15 or 20 to profiles to pour through.
In the end I bought four vials of sperm at a cost of approximately US$5000 and prepared to begin my IVF journey.
At first I was fairly optimistic. . I’m healthier than most people I know, I hardly drink, I don’t smoke and I exercise most days. But it wasn’t enough.
I completed four IVF cycles. Each time when my period arrived I was devastated.
You can read about my IVF journey on my blog here
So now what? My options include another round of IVF using my own eggs, donor eggs, surrogacy or adoption but I’m not sure how much more of a beating my psyche can take if the IVF is unsuccessful, so I’m looking at the alternatives…
ADOPTION
You don’t need me to tell you that the adoption situation in Australia is difficult. Even more so if you’re a single woman over forty.
At present, no Australian states will allow a single woman to adopt a child.
So what about overseas? Australia has “intercountry adoption agreements” with fourteen countries. Of those countries, only five (Colombia, Lithuania, The Philippines, Taiwan and Thailand) are willing to consider allowing single women to adopt. In most cases however you are only permitted to adopt older children. And in every case except Colombia, single women will only be permitted to adopt older children with special needs who are otherwise unable to be placed.
For more information click here
Next stop, looking at an egg donor …
USING AN EGG DONOR
Egg donation is legal in Australia as long as the eggs were donated voluntarily. There can be no monetary contracts.
The donor must be under 35 years of age and have already completed her family. This is because in rare cases a complication occurs which jeopardizes the donor’s chances of having further children of her own. Unfortunately though it’s increasingly difficult to find a woman who feels ready to “close the door” on having children at the age of 35.
Thankfully my fertility clinic has affiliate clinics in Greece, South Africa and New York. These are the countries they recommend going to for donor eggs. They have them ready and waiting at their clinic. So, how would it work? I’d fly to, say, Greece, at the right time of the month, and meet with the nurses at the clinic, where the eggs would have been fertilized with my chosen sperm (again I’d have to buy sperm from a sperm bank in the US). I would then have the embryo implanted. Unsurprisingly, it’s expensive. There’s the return airfare and all the medical costs. Because it’s being done out of Australia, none of the procedure is covered by either Medicare or my private health insurance. Then there’s my accommodation for two weeks. I don’t have to stay that long, but if, on the off chance, the embryo doesn’t stick, I am on-site to try again. If I were already back in Australia, this would mean buying another plane ticket.
Clearly it would be easier to find an egg donor here in Australia. But it’s no less expensive. Whilst Medicare covers some of my costs, it covers NONE of the (generous) donor’s costs. I would pay those. The outlay of one IVF cycle is upwards of $6000, plus the cost of the sperm from the US, which is approximately $2500 for two vials.
What about surrogacy?
SURROGACY
Whilst altruistic surrogacy (where no money is exchanged) is now legal in Australia, commercial surrogacy is not. Therefore, going overseas to find a surrogate is the only alternative for anyone wanting to go this route. This, in itself, is a HUGE undertaking.
The two most favorable countries that people choose to go to are the US and India because they have more relaxed laws. I would use both donor eggs and sperm, but other people can use their own eggs and partner’s sperm, their own eggs and donor sperm, donated eggs and partner’s sperm, or the surrogate’s egg and partner’s or donated sperm. I could go to either country, but most couples choose India, because the monetary outlay is significantly lower in India. Agency fees, medical fees, two round-trip plane tickets (because you have to go twice), accommodation and food costs between US$30,000 – US$35,000.
In the US, there’s what’s known as a traditional surrogate. A woman who uses her own eggs and either your partner’s or donor sperm. This will set you back between US$45,000-$55,000. The price goes up if you want to use your own eggs and is even more if you’re working with an egg donor. It can cost upwards of US$100,000. In both India and most states in America, the parents’ names go on the birth certificate. The surrogate’s name is not listed anywhere.
As if all that wasn’t difficult enough, commercial surrogacy is now illegal in NSW. An amendment has been made to the NSW Surrogacy Act that states NSW residents who travel overseas to enter into commercial surrogacy arrangements, would now be guilty of a crime even where said arrangements were legal in the country where the arrangement took place. This new law means that NSW residents will face PROSECUTION (think two years in jail or a $100,000 fine or both) for using commercial surrogacy overseas. And that’s for any parent who pays for a surrogate to carry their baby either in Australia or overseas.
The law was passed because the Government believes it commodifies women in poorer countries, such as India. They believe that the women are being exploited. Through everything I’ve read and seen on TV about the Indian surrogacy clinics, the women do not look uncared for, or unhappy. They are making enough money to educate their own children and have a more comfortable life. The USA is not a third world country, but the bill blankets it as well as any other country we infertile people want to try to find a surrogate in.
So now what? I’m not sure. Just wish me luck …
Can you relate to Nicky’s story? Would you consider a sperm donor if you were unable to find a partner to have a baby with? Do you think it should be illegal to use commercial surrogacy?
Nicky will be reading your comments and responding where she wants to…..









Comments
631 Comments so far
Nicky – I followed your blog and thought of you often and crossed fingers. I don’t know WHAT to advise…it’s just bloody hard……
Still hoping for you and wishing you lots of luck.
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Thank you…stay tuned, I’m blogging again!
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Yay! I will! I still check from time to time!
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I feel really uncomfortable about the title of this post. you might not need a daddy to have a baby but the baby certainly does. I think you can have all the good male role models in the world but nothing can substitute that relationship. almost all the major studies into life outcomes for children show that children do better in a stable two parent family. this doesn’t mean that children in different families aren’t loved or won’t turn out ok but it doesmean they are less likely too.
I don’t buy this idea that that having a child is an entitlement that society and the government should be automatically obliged to support, however sad the circumstances of the person wanting a child.
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Stephanie
I totally agree withy you 100%.
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I think if you take a well educated middle class single women and gave them a child, they’d do a better job than many, many couples.
If you took economic factors out of the equation, including the fact that many single mothers do it incredibly tough finacially, single or couples are probably less ‘factors’ than you think.
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What about the kids who have been born into a family with a mummy and a daddy, but the dad leaves and wants nothing to do with them again. This is much worse psychologically, than never having one at all…
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Why does everyone seem to think that having a child as a single woman means that you are going to be single for the rest of your life?
Who’s not to say that when the child is a year old, that the single woman doesn’t meet an amazing man who becomes the child’s father… Just because he is not the father biologically doesn’t mean that he can’t love the child and they can be a family.
On this site a lot of the comments are very black and white – as if having a child as a single women = single for the rest of your life and never having another partner again…
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Where exactly are all these stable two parent families? My parents divorced when I was five years old, and I became an adult from that moment on. I would much rather have had a single mum who chose to bring me into the world with just her. We would be our own little family, as opposed to being a broken one. A lot of fathers are less than useless. A loving, mature parent and a wide support network is more important than a father.
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Without having read any comments below yet (and I’m sure they’ll be some beauties) I can’t believe the restrictions on a woman chosing to have a child has here in Australia.
It’s as if they were asking to give birth to a monster, instead of a child they’d love.
Stoopid.
Oh, and good luck Nicky with whatever you decide.
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Thanks Idle. The laws here are preposterous and antiquated…
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Hey Nicky, best of luck with your journey I so hope you get your baby.
I always wanted 4 kids and am VERY lucky to have one. I’m 37 and still would love to have more kids but endometriosis and divorce haven’t helped my situation!
One of your comments below has struck a chord though – I think I may investigate getting some of my eggs frozen (if I can) so if the health issue can be helped, I still have an option.
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Freezing eggs is still pretty new technology (not that it makes it bad, just noting). But with the endo, you might be good to go with IVF, even if you can’t fall pregnant “naturally”. It’s worth investigating!
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Yep, it’s a tricky situation for single women, freezing embryos is currently much more successful than freezing eggs, but it means you need to have some sperm available to make your eggs into embryos!
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Just wandering what the advantages are that you said there were in being a single mum. Just curious.
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Reading through all the comments, you have to wonder why we live in a society where it’s so much harder for an individual or couple to bring life into the world, than it is for someone to terminate life by choice.
I had my first son at 21 and his father wasn’t interested in being a dad at all. He had his mind set on an international career and I raised my son on my own (with the help of the grandmothers)
15 years later I unexpectedly found myself in a new relationship with a man that’s a doting father and we wanted more children. Since we were both 35 we decided to try “sooner rather than later” and have been lucky to conceive quickly and easily, with hopefully enough time to have another one in a few years.
I admire all the women that are at the same point of wanting a family, and are willing to go it alone. I couldn’t do it – having already experienced life as a single parent. I wish you all the best and urge you to reach out and accept all the help you can get from friends and family. Especially if you have a boy.. he needs his male role models
The important thing for all children is that they feel loved, accepted and have a sense of identity. Some children will grow up and feel strongly that they need to know their biological father, others won’t. I think it’s important that they have that choice when they’re older.
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I’m so disappointed that the Government has made it so difficult in this case. I can see it from many sides of the fence. I had 5 miscarriages before carrying my eldest to term, so I was in counselling facing the prospect of not being able to parent. As a result of my good fortune, I think, I subsequently went on the donor program with some friends and donated eggs that provided that my friends then received an anonymous donor. This was before the current status ie I knew I wanted more children but was assured at that time that there wouldn’t be any adverse affects after going through the donor program.
I also have a girlfriend who made a conscious decision to have children with a gay male friend, and who now co-parents with he and his partner. I have two other school friends who have chosen to have babies on their own in their 40′s in I suppose the most traditional way (ie no turkey baster involved lol)
It can be so difficult to find the ‘perfect’ scenario. I really struggle to understand why the government has chosen to make this harder for women. Who are any of us to tell anyone else what they can or can’t, or should or shouldn’t have?
People need a license to have a dog!
Best of luck, Nicky.
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I so understand. I’ve always wanted kids, but when I turned 28 this overwhelming need to have babies kicked in. Luckily at the moment I have a partner who’s keen to marry and have babies. Just not quite yet. And that’s the thing. As a 28 year old woman I’m only too aware of the dwindling time I have left. And I don’t want to be an old mum like mine was. But every man I’ve ever dated (all my age and younger, that’s just how it worked out) has not felt any pressure, and has acted like he has all the time in the world (which, if we’re brutally honest, they sort of do). How do you get around that?
Congratulations to Sami, I’ve always liked her and I’m sure she’ll be a wonderful mum.
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If I had the knowledge at your age that you have, I’d be freezing my eggs. Just as a back up…
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Yikes! Maybe I should look into it.
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It can’t hurt to make some inquiries. You may never have to use them, but it’s insurance…
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Melissa, this was an issue my partner and I faced. He’s ten years my junior, so we had a delicate balancing act! We had to hope that I was still young enough to become pregnant, when he was ready to be a father. Fortunately for me, he was ready to be Dad much younger than I would have been ready to be a Mum (he was 26 and I 36 with the birth of our first child). For what it’s worth, I think part of the reason he was ‘ready’ – whatever that means – was simply that we just felt so right together. I doubt, had our relationship been rocky in any way, he would have been ready, and nor should he have been. So, if your partner is younger, it may not matter if it’s just the right thing in your hearts and souls
As I mentioned, for us, we decided to be happy with whatever came our way, and it worked out in a very positive manner. The freezing eggs option wasn’t available when I was your age, but it’s certainly something I’d consider (just in case) if I had the time over.
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I am a 27 year old who has to go through the IVF journey due to fertility issues. I have a 2 year old who we are blessed to have and am 6 months pregnant with my second. We are not able to have kids naturally. We have spent about $15,000 in out of pocket expenses to get to where we are, not to mention the up front fees you need to have also.
I wish that Medicare could do a bit more…. I am not a woman who has left it too late but legitimately has a medical condition. I feel for people who are in the same position as my partner and I, we are fortunate to have had savings to pay for this.
My heart generally breaks for people in the same position as us, it is such an emotionally draining journey.
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Nicky, I have all my fingers and toes crossed for you. As a matter of fact, I am saying a prayer for you to who/whatever is listening that this dream can come true soon.
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I can’t help but feel so sad for those older children with special needs that are waiting to be adopted. =((
PS: good luck with your journey Nicky.
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The main message for the next generation of women is: “Don’t ignore your fertility”. Girls need to know that their fertility is not an unlimited resource. Our eggs have a “use by” date so unfortunately, it really is a case of “use it or lose it”. If you want to have a baby, you really need to start investigating your options in your early 30s – at the latest ! Because by the age of 40 – for most women – it becomes a case of “Do Not Pass Go. Do Not Enter The Maternity Ward” (I love that quote! I read it in a magazine in the States, written by a woman going through the same thing as me).
I just copied that quote from an interview with Sami after following the link and it REALLY resonates with me. I will definately be encouraging my daughter to understand that her fertility does have an end date. I gave birth to her at 33 and am currently 5.5 months pregnant and I feel blessed EVERY day that fertility has not been an issue for me considering how blase I was about it for a long time.
My thoughts and prayers are with you Nicky and I hope you are blessed with a beautiful baby soon xxx
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I’m pretty sure women have got that message loud and clear. I’ve been hearing about it for a decade at least and I’m 28 now. And if i wasn’t getting it from the media, other women and society at large, there’s also a biological clock that has kicked in with a vengeance in the past year.
You know who isn’t though, the men our age who are going to have to step up and perhaps give up their comfortable adultesence a little earlier than they may have hoped.
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I really disagree Melissa. I have MANY friends and aquaintances over the age of 30 who do think that they have AGES left yet before they have to start worrying about it. As for the “biological clock” ticking, mine didn’t “tick” once until my husband and I found out that we were accidently pregnant at 33. I don’t know when we would have started “trying” if that hadn’t happened but I am SO glad that it did
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I have a friend who is 35 who was so complacent for many years and was fooling around with boys like she was a teenager.
I feel for her now, because she really wants children and has no partner.
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I started going through menopause at 36 – and although before that I knew that I was getting towards the end of my fertility, I was thinking in terms of years rather than months. Hit me like a ton of bricks, it did.
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Sorry Rene, but I’m 24 and I’ve found that most newspaper lifestyle sections regularly trot out the ol’ ‘don’t ignore your fertility’ article whenever there’s a slow news day. And have been for a while. I am now at the point where if I have to read or hear another thing about how litle time I have left I’m going to take all my hard earned savings, run away to Europe and generally spend the rest of my life pretending I’m a dissipated character from an Evelyn Waugh novel.
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Having children, or a child, is so so worth it. Hang in there Nicky.
I didn’t know about the NSW law; wow, that’s a complication you didn’t need. One door after another seems to be closed.
Love and support! xo
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No one in the Labor Government, must know anyone with fertility issues.
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I never knew if I wanted to have children. I was aware that it was a huge responsibility and I felt I might be too selfish to undertake this most huge of tasks – being a Mum.
When I was in my thirties, my partner and I discussed having a baby. I finally found a man who I thought would make a great Dad, and he had helped to make me feel more worthy of being a Mum. I knew that my age (35 at the time) and being overweight made pregnancy less likely. We decided that if it was meant to be, it would be. In other words, if, through our own efforts we were unsuccessful we wouldn’t try any other avenues. We’d have almost certainly been unable to finance other options anyway. Still, we were lucky, and we have gone on to have 3 healthy children.
I feel for anyone who desires to have a child and cannot – for any myriad of reason. I would hope that anyone, of sound mind is able to give love and nurturing to a child. Ideally of course with strong role models of both genders in the child’s life – not necessarily a primary care giver, but in their extended family/friends/community.
Generally speaking, people like the women above are already ahead of the game in terms of being a great parent. These are people who aren’t accidentally having a child, but are pulling out all stops to make a dream come true.
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Good Luck to you Nicky, you must be one strong woman to go through all the things you have so far. I had one round of IVF and that was hard enough. I was very lucky. Would you consider “moving” to another state or country so you could give surrogacy a go? Silly NSW laws.
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Looking for an egg donor is my next step. I’m still hoping that I can get pregnant.
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I was one of those rare women who had finished her family by the age of 33. I really considered being an egg donor, as I felt that I was so lucky to have had 4 children easily and I had something I could offer other women who were struggling. But the complications scared me off. A friend of a friend ended up in hospital quite ill from the complications of trying to be an egg donor for her sister. So to women who do that, I think you are amazing!
I have a husband who is a devoted amazing hands on dad and still I find being a parent such a hard job. When is he away for business our lives are crazy and I am a complete wreck by the time he comes home. To choose to go into single parenthood is a very brave scary decision so I wish you well. Single mothers have the most difficult job on earth. Knowing what I know now as a mum, there is no way on earth I would choose to do it alone.
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Nicky, I have followed your story and met you in real life too, it is a hearbreaking journey and you a a brave woman for being so open about it.
I sincerely hope that you achieve your dream of becoming a mother any child loved and wanted so much by a woman such as you will indeed be one of the lucky ones xxpt
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Thank you, Lovely.
About to write a blog post…well, when I’ve replied to all the responses here.
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I’ve got kids. And it’s really, really, really hard work. Our 10 month old has been a fantastic baby – sleeps well, no colic, no food allergies, no illnesses, no developmental problems… but it’s STILL really, really hard work. And there’s two of us! Having a baby with one or more of these very common newborn issues takes parenting to a whole new level.
I don’t particularly care about the gender, but there are so many benefits to having two sets of parental hands. To be a single parent, it’s all good and well to say that your child will have positive ‘role models’ in life, and that friends & family members will support you, but at 3am, when you’re beyond exhausted and completely sleep deprived and on the brink of a breakdown….. who is there for you then? Would you ring someone at 3am to cry to them that your baby just won’t go to sleep? Or the next morning, when YOU need a hug & a power nap because you’ve only managed 45 minutes of sleep through the night? I have a husband, and sometimes I don’t shower for 2 or 3 days because I simply don’t get the chance… (hence why I’ve taken the ‘anonymous’ option for this comment!!). And any time he’s had to travel for work, be it an overnight trip or one week away, and I take on the role of a ‘single parent’, I shake my head at how anyone manages it – day in, day out. I wouldn’t cope.
Parenting is a job that is done BETTER with 2 parents. Two mummies. Two daddies. I don’t really mind. Some days, I wish there was another Mummy or another Daddy in our family to help out a bit more! THAT’S how hard it is. Fun, amazing, beautiful, joyous, emotional, loving…. but hard. Doing it on your own? By choice? Crazy. And a little bit selfish.
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“Doing it on your own? By choice? Crazy. And a little bit selfish.”
Crazy, yes. But selfish? how?
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Okay, so this is a gut-wrenching point to have to make, but it’s important. What if, heaven forbid, something happens to the single parent? Say the child is 4 years old, and the sole parent is diagnosed with terminal cancer? There’s no other parent to take over and guide this little life through the emotional rollercoaster of not only having lost a parent, but having lost their ONLY parent. Like I said, it’s a horrible thing to think about, but tragedy occurs every day, and is doesn’t discriminate. If I died suddenly, I would rest knowing that my husband was going to look after our children.
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…and if you both got cleaned up in accident? Horrible thoughts and no-one really wants to think about it but just because there are two of you doesn’t mean either one of you will live forever.
People forget that children aren’t born in isolation. There are usually extended families (those we choose and those we are born into) around to help.
When my partner and I made out our wills we were forced to think about who we would like to raise our child in the event that both of us were dead. We went beyond the first line of defence if you will (daddy) and then went through to aunties and uncles in case Dad couldn’t do it!
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Good point two mummies
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I think you mean brave and totally selfless!!
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Being single IS NOT MY CHOICE. I would love to meet a man with whom I could have a relationship with and who wants to have a family with me, but at 44, I don’t have the luxury of waiting. I would still welcome it, but am done waiting.
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Would you consider fostering a child/ children?
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I don’t know. I’m still at the point of having my own baby. This would be something I’d have to consider down the track.
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Erm, just because you don’t think you could do it (and I think you’d be surprised what you can achieve when you are actually pushed!) doesn’t mean us single parents are crazy wrecks! And I find time to shower every day … yes, even with no husband in sight!
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I am envious! Especially of your daily showers!
I truly take my hat off to you because, with 3 kids, I find it incredibly challenging and, at times, overwhelming on my own. I know there are many, many single parent families that exist these days… but I often wonder, and you don’t have to answer this, but if you had a choice between single-parenting and being in a loving relationship, which would you choose?
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I would be delighted to find a loving relationship,and if it happens, it happens – but I’m very happy with my life right now.
I work full-time (with the help of an amazing nanny and family members), which requires showering (and hair, makeup, wardrobe) each and every day!
And this is not a criticism of you Anon, but the reason I feel quite alienated from mamamia and rarely comment is there is always so much complaining about parenting – everyone’s experiences are different and I find all the constant misery and exhaustion here a little dispiriting!
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I’m so sorry if my comment has sounded like whinging about being a Mum, because it’s absolutely 1000% not. My kids are my greatest joy. Each one of them brings my husband and I so much happiness and pride that sometimes, I feel like my cheeks might actually explode from smiling!
I gave up my career to do this full-time, and we were fortunate enough to be able to have this as an option as we felt it was best for the kids, but I won’t lie – when you do it day in, day out, without much of a break, it does get a bit tiresome. I’m typing this standing up, waiting for some pumpkin mash to cool down… pumpkin mash that will inevitably end up all over my little boy’s face and probably on the floor!I often miss getting work-ready in the morning and talking to grown ups about grown up stuff during the day! I’m sure you find yourself having a whine about your job sometimes…. this is my job. And sometimes, it gets a bit boring and exhausting.
You sound like an amazing woman and I think you should comment more often.
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You know, you should be proud to be a great single mum, I’m glad you’re using that moniker
I certainly get where Anon is coming from, it is absolutely harder to parent well on your own at least some of the time. It could also be considered harder to parent with just the two of you, rather than the less-common-these-days extended family. I’m part of a team of two and some days I am just hanging out for 5.45pm when The Man is due home
I certainly think being a single parent is not the ideal if the parent in question hasn’t family or friends to call on, but it can be done, and it can be done well. A support network would almost be a vital prerequisite! IF I had to do it on my own, I’d also have Nurse On Call and Parentline phone numbers ready and waiting for any times when I might feel overwhelmed
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I’ll add here that if you have a baby with special needs, like Autism or CF for example, you are possibly going to have to be a full time carer for that child. Suddenly not having a partner at all means you are bearing the full financial costs, and you might never be able to go back to work. Obviously most people have family to give them emotional support, and if you’re lucky financial.
I know it’s something people don’t like to think about, but I believe people should consider this outcome when they decide to get pregnant. I mean anyone, not just older mums or single mums. Dads too!
I don’t know if I would go so far as to call it crazy or selfish. But maybe ‘terrifying and brave’.
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“The two most favorable countries that people choose to go to are the US and India because they have more relaxed laws.”
And particularly in the case of India, lots of poor women. Who’d be desperate for the money. Not that this has anything to do with it. Of course.
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Did you, by chance, watch Insight this week?
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I flicked to it at some point, when a woman who ran (I think?) one of those clinics was speaking, but I didn’t watch.
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Logically speaking, the act of having a child is completely neutral.
The actions you take whilst parenting are the difference between being benevolent or objectionable.
Children are of no net value to society as there is no propensity for a child to have any beneficial effect any more so than a negative one.
If a single man can adopt, then why shouldn’t a single women be allowed IVF?
The problem of the missing parent is the parent that is left’s responsibility to work twice as hard to make up for this.
The problem arises when they, the parent of informed consent raises a child knowingly as such and doesn’t work harder to accommodate the second parent that the child never had a choice in.
Choice is an amazing thing, when YOU have it
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Huh?
“Children are of no net value to society as there is no propensity for a child to have any beneficial effect any more so than a negative one”.
Can you elaborate on this sentence?
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I didn’t understand this sentence either…
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I think it means that as a whole children can’t be considered universally beneficial to society. Because not all of them are going to make a noticeably positive impact in society. Some of them will just float along not doing much of importance. And some will make an actively negative impact by turning into criminals or being nasty people.
I could be wrong.
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Thank you Melissa, that’s exactly what I meant.
That and that any parent who makes a conscious choice to have a child as a solo parent owes it to the child to work harder than those with out the choice. Because they know before the fact that their will not be another parent.
Every one deserves the freedom to make their own choices, but children live with the choices of their parents.
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No child has a choice when his/her parents divorce either.
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No the parents make that choice!
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I wish Nicky luck & hope that her dream of becoming a mother comes true.
I follow Nicky on Twitter (am Latebabyhopeful) & around the time she was waiting for her last IVF results, I was waiting to see if my last minute change of mind attempt at getting pregnant (was going to get a German Shorthaired Pointer puppy rather than trying for #2 child) was successful. I was extremely lucky (& take absolutely nothing for granted about fertility) & we got pregnant naturally first go. I got through the first trimester & had CVS testing & so far so good. I am now almost 26 weeks pregnant & starting to feel like there might actually be another child in this house soon.
My first child was born when I was 36 & he has been an absolute blessing to us. It is hard sometimes but very worth it. Since having him, I have often thought about the possibility of donating eggs so that another woman/couple can experience the love that I feel but I am now considered too old…. I was actually thinking of asking my OB if someone would still consider my eggs (as they seem to be quite fertile considering my age!) but I am not sure how it would all work..
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Thank you Francesca and congratulations on your pregnancy.
As far as I’m aware, 34/35 is the cut-off age for egg donation, but it can’t hurt to ask your OB.
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Thanks
I am seeing my OB next week so I am going to ask him then. He does fertility/IVF stuff as well as normal OB/gyn things so he should know. Good luck in your quest & I hope to see good news on Twitter one day soon
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hmm I guess money will can buy anything even babies. I just wished I have that kind of money so I can go to India or the USA to do the surrogacy. My husband and I have tried IVF but no luck so far. We cannot afford to do surrogacy overseas. Sometimes it brings to tear to see celebrities or wealthy gay couple who can afford to go overseas to have a baby via a surrogate. We had to stop doing IVF due to financial reason.
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It’s an incredibly time consuming AND money sucking process.
I’m sorry for you that you had to stop for financial reasons. The government should make fertility treatment more accessible to the public.
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And sometimes you have to think.Ok I wasnt meant to have a baby and it shouldnt define me . maybe you can visit sick kids in hospital and I think I heard somewhere about hospitals being after volunteers to nurse babies that because of their mothers using drugs are born addicted and need to be held
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yes, because visiting sick children in hospital is a perfect substitute for motherhood. Jeez.
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I watched my brother and his wife go through IVF, they tried 5 times before having my niece, and another 2 times before falling with twins(due in july).
Everytime a cycle failed it ripped them apart. I hope you, niki, and others in the same boat get thier baby eventually.
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Understand the concept but have always felt a child is an act of love between two people. Having done IVF with my husband I know how scientific the whole process is but still made with love
And this is a completely selfish decision – but hey we live in a want it now world!
I work with children and only hope these kids who are bought into the world with no father have some strong male role models in their lives.
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Wow Nicky – best of luck. I’m in the fortunate position of being 35 and pregnant with my second child…married to the father of my babies. In the year and a bit since I’ve been a mum, I’ve been urging my very close single friends to start making decisions and plans. Two are sure they will try IVF but want to pay off their house / live overseas for a bit longer….first. I think they’re really waiting to see if they might meet someone – which is perfectly understandable. But, I’m trying to explain to them that they may be enjoying that beach house all to themselves if they don’t hurry up and start the process….any process. As both would like to use their own eggs, I really think they need to HURRY UP. Having been lucky enough to fall pregnant naturally and already have a beautiful child, I can’t scream loudly enough to anyone who’ll listen – dont wait. Don’t risk not being a parent (if that’s something you want to do – which I have, since I was 20). It is, seriously, the most important, fulfilling, amazing journey that (with any luck) never ends. I’m not sure why I waited, wish someone had said this to me 5 years ago……
I’m sorry it’s so difficult and I really do wish you all the best x
Ps – Not for a second do I mean this to sound like it’s your fault bc you waited too long….gawd, sorry if it sounds like that. I think I”m saying, I so easily could have been in your situation so I feel for you – hope it comes across like that.
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Dulcie, I wish, at 35, someone had taken me by the shoulders and, at the very least, suggested (STRONGLY) that I freeze my eggs.
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Good luck Nicky, I really hope that one day you get to hold a precious bundle of joy.
I have just had a second failed pregnancy at 38 and am done trying, my partner and I and just exhausted with it all, he is very supportive but we have to decided to just be happy with each other.
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I’m so, so sorry Alexandra.
It’s an extremely arduous journey this trying to have a baby thing.
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U-oh. I can feel a shit-storm coming on.
‘Having children is the least selfish thing you can do.’
I couldn’t disagree more. Adequately caring for a child is unselfish. But people have children because they want to have children, which, in my opinion, is not a good enough reason to have children. (Just ask a social worker, therapist, foster parent, teacher at a school for troubled kids, or anyone else who works with abused or neglected children.)
And while I don’t particularly have a problem with Sami’s decision (I’m sure she’ll be a great mum), I don’t think what she’s doing could be described as ‘unselfish’. There’s a chance that, one day, her child might be angry that she brought him or her into this world without a father.
If our society was set up so that people had to qualify to become a parent, there would be a lot fewer human beings on this planet. Contrary to the way everything else works, having children is one of the only things in life that people don’t actually have to earn. If you have a functioning reproductive system (and/or the means to adopt or utilise modern technology to create a baby), you can have children.
Sometimes, I sit back and think, ‘You have to qualify for a home loan, but you don’t have to qualify to raise a child. What a crazy, crazy world we live in.’
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Hmmmm as a nurse who has seen many, many neglected, abused kids and shitty parents, I agree that there are some people out there who should not have children.
But I think that anyone who is going through IVF, and who wants a baby THAT much has a much lower likelihood of going on to become a crap parent and abusing their kids.
I don’t have research to back that up but I’m sure it’s out there.
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I would agree with that… except for, perhaps, ‘Octo-mom’. But that’s a whole other post!
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I do agree with you there. I think wanting a child is in a way selfish but the caring for the child part is unselfish. If you were being completely unselfish in wanting to have a child then adopting an older child or child with disabilities wouldn’t be out of the question as it seems to be for most people.
I’m not aiming to be inflammatory here, I completely understand the longing for a baby and that is what I would want for myself, but the unselfish part just grated a little.
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What I don’t get is why single women (or men) are seen as the perfect match for older disabled children?!?!?!?!?!
Of all the kids that need multiple parents to look after them ‘older disabled kids’ would be the priority for two parent families I would have thought!
I struggle to imagine what this is supposed to say about the ‘value’ of a single parent or the ‘value’ of an older disabled child.
It’s similar with gay people who are seen as capable of fostering older disabled/severly disturbed abused children but not worthy of legally adopting their own kids!
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Completely agree with you there. It is undoubtedly discriminatory and you’re right in saying that of all children these are the ones who could really use 2 parents. As for the issue of gay rights regarding children, don’t even get me started! I have had a few heated discussions with close minded people on that one, as I’m sure you have too.
My point here is that if we are going to start tossing round the term unselfish then we need to really have a good look at what that means and I think in this case (totally JMO) it means if you are being unselfish in wanting a child that you will take on any child, even if that means they are a bit older.
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Oh that’s easy to answer!
It’s because ANYONE regardless of sex, relationship status who struggles to have a child, well apparently we should just be grateful for ANY child regardless of health, disabilities, race, creed, colour or problem.
It’s a bit like the “oh why don’t you just adopt” line that gets trotted out to anyone struggling to conceive.
If there are so many childrne who need good homes, why doesn’t EVERYONE adopt a child rather than have one of their own?
I’m NOT saying that these children of course don’t deserve a loving home because they do[!] but they also deserve a home that would be the absolute BEST for them and that may not be a single, married or homosexual person/couple.
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there was an even better one above – why doesn’t Nicky just go and visit sick children in the hospital?
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Hmmmm you have expressed it so well! Having a baby is always for selfish reasons. Caring for it well is the unselfish part, and thats the part many people struggle with.
I think the people who choose not to have children, for whatever reason, are the unselfish ones. Because their choice is not being inflicted upon another persons life.
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If one day her child is angry that she brought him/her into this world without a father then she can just say that he/she would not have been born if she had known the father. Someone else would’ve been born instead!
But most kids at some time wish they had never been born! lol
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Can I just say that I watched this story on Foxtel the other night and Sami Lukis is stunning! Im not sure where I stand on this subject. I have been so blessed with being able to have my son naturally. I wouldnt want any woman to miss out on the experience of being a mother, but I am also a firm believer in everything happens for a reason. Not sure we should be taking things into our own hands. But I have never been in such a desperate situation, so I think I will just stay on the bench for this one.
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Sorry, I stopped reading this when I hit the first inaccuracy. There is no such thing as an Australian sperm bank. Sperm is obtained via fertility clinics, and there are plenty who are happy to take single women customers… in fact they are probably their primary bread and butter these days!
If you want accuracy on the issue of solo motherhood by choice, take a look at smcaustralia.org.
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I heard a story on the commercial surrogacy ban in NSW on Radio National just recently and thought of you. What a tough situation you find yourself in… I faced three years of infertility and thought it would kill me. I cannot imagine going through what you have (and still are). Love and luck to you. xxxx
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Thank you Kylie. As you well know, this journey has not been an easy one for me.
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I do know! And some tough comments here today too. Extra hugs. xxx
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“But as she sees it – and I agree – “having children is the least selfish thing you can do”
I’m sorry but actually it is THE most selfish thing you can do.
People bring children into this world because THEY want to be a parent, because THEY want a child. The child has no say in the matter, they are brought into this world because of another persons want, desire, yearning.
There are many children who, some might say, probably shouldn’t have been brought into this world and many who probably wish they hadn’t because of the life they are living or ended up living. They, of course though, had no say in being born or created, their lives exist purely because of what another person wanted, desired, yearned for.
How can you not call that selfish?
I think we should be saying that having a child IS a selfish act, perhaps if we did it would make people really think before having a child – am I going to be a good parent? Will I be giving this child the absolute best life they could have? Will I make sure that this child, to the best of my ability, does not suffer during their childhood? Maybe, just maybe, if we did, then more children wouldn’t grow up enduring such tough childhoods and family situations?
All that being said, there is nothing wrong with a selfish act that’s mixed with love and in your case [when] you finally become pregnant [always ALWAYS think positive] your selfish act will show through in utter devotion and love for your child – how could it not considering the lengths you’re willing to go to have him/her? However unfortunately this isn’t the case for some people and their reasons for having children [be it planned or otherwise] are purely selfish with nothing else thrown in.
I wish you every luck in being able to finally having a child of your own [in whatever means possible] but please don’t fool yourself for one minute thinking you’re doing a selfless thing because you aren’t, that thinking, some might say, is the reason why there are too many children living in horrible family situations.
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The Frugal…I didn’t say it was selfless, I agree, I’m doing this because I WANT A BABY. A baby that will be loved and cared for with all my heart (and my family’s and friend’s).
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Nicky, you’re absolutely right and I’m sorry I got that wrong, it was in fact Susie O’Brien and Sami Lukis that said it was selfless.
And I know EXACTLY why you’re doing it. My comment wasn’t actually meant to come across as “havin a go” at you, so I’m sorry if it did. It was actually meant as a rebuttal for the whole “having a child is the least selfish thing you can do argument” – which I have seen on many forums and written in many articles.
Again I wish you nothing but luck.
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I just wanted to make it clear that the first few lines of this were not my words.
I’ve said all along, here and in my own blog that having a baby is a selfish act. Of course it is. You have a baby because YOU (and your partner) WANT one.
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Here goes, I am sure I will get ripped apart for this………
I agree that having children is not a selfless act. I have two small children and the major reasons for bringing them into this world was for reasons to benefit myself, my husband and our parents mostly. That is why when I decided to have children my husband and I agreed that we had an obligation to make them as ‘beneficial’ to society as possible. Polite, community minded, respectful to elders, productive etc. I will also admit that we also chose to have children too because my husband is Aboriginal and we wanted to do everything we could to have Aboriginal children ‘front and centre’ who were posed, educated and confident to help shift that outdated view that a lot of Australians have of our Indigenous.
So I guess what I am trying to say is ‘yes’ I believe that bringing children into the world could be considered a selfish act. But if they are raised correctly then the parenting job is a selfless one because you are raising another generation who would hopefully be a better one than the previous.
(I should end this by saying I’m TRYING to raise them well. There is still a good chance I could f#ck them up, time will tell
).
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well said, and I think you have a great attitude. All parents (well those who have a planned pregnancy anyway) have children because they want to, it seems pretty harsh to call only those who need help to get there selfish.
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“Because it’s being done out of Australia, none of the procedure is covered by either Medicare or my private health insurance.”
Hi Nicky, can you expand on this a little more? I’m confused why you would think Medicare/Private Health Insurance would pay for you to get pregnant (especially when overseas).
I dont’ want to come across as rude or argumentative, I just didn’t understnad that point? There’s so much that Medicare & private health insurance (as my dentist bill shows!) don’t cover I’m puzzled why this was a point.
Thanks,
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In Australia, I’m able to claim some of the IVF procedures through Medicare and my private health insurance co.
They don’t pay on everything, but evvery little bit helps.
Is this what you are asking?
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Thanks for the reply Nicky, I guess I’m more curious why you think it should cover this? I really don’t want to be snarky but Medicare dosen’t cover a lot of essentials (e.g. Dentist), so why would you think they should cover non essentials such as your procedures? thanks.
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People are on IVF due to fertility issues not by choice. This is where the money should go. How does a fertility expert prioritise? The couple unable to have a child or the woman wanting to have a child alone?
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Dana, am I right in thinking that you are not someone who has ever struggled with fertility issues?
Perhaps if there were more people who did, or it was a problem that was in mainstream media more, it would be a subject that less people were judgemental on.
I would imagine that if more women suddenly found that they couldn’t have children, eyebrows wouldn’t be raised as much when it came to Medicare covering infertility treatments, which may I add they don’t actually cover that much.
It still irks me that for some women it takes large amounts of moneyin order to have a child and it’s usually the women who never struggled for their offspring that complain about Medicare covering such a meagre amount of these treatment costs.
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Hi Frugal,
you’re correct, i don’t have children…and i don’t know if i would struggle with fertility so i can’t really imagine this situation.
i have a completely opposite view on this topi, but i don’t see the need to keep poking at it. i’m sure nicky doesn’t need another person putting her down.
good luck nicky, i hope it does work out for you somehow
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I think the point was essential vs nonessential.
having a baby is not essential.
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Please stick to one name per thread.
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I pay my taxes. I haven’t asked to have fertility issues and I believe, as it does, Medicare should cover the procedures.
I never said I think these should be covered overseas.
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Can I ask a question – what is the main purpose of IVF?
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JMO, the main purpose of IVF is to have a baby. Is that what you’re asking?
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The main purpose of IVF was to help couples who were medically infertile to hopefully have children. Perhaps not asking – somewhat confirming. Nicky, I do feel greatly for you and your desire to have a child. But my main concern ,as I raised in another one of my comments, is flicking men off simply as sperm donors not for the other most important contribution they give their child – a father.
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I think private health insurance covers some reproductive stuff in Australia. But it won’t cover you if you are doing it overseas. I think that was the point.
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Wow, I can’t believe the new NSW law regarding commercial surrogacy. I just can’t get my head around the fact that it will be even illegal to travel for surrogacy.
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me too – it just doesn’t make sense to me.
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Holy moly I had no idea it was so hard.
Best of luck to you x
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Thank you Melissa J.
The NSW Government keeps making the process more and more difficult.
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I think the maim problem for Nicky may be knowing when to stop and accept that she may never be a mother.
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I’m not sure that if you desperately want children but can’t have them, that you are ever able to “stop and accept” never being able to be a mother.
We have tried for 11 years and have suffered countless miscarriages. We are no longer actively trying and while I realise that I will probably never be able to have what so many women take for granted [and unfortunately *some* don't appreciate] I will NEVER accept it or be at peace with it.
And if I’m TOTALLY honest, I’m a little tired of people, particularly women who a] either have children so have no idea what it’s like not to be able to have them and b] have never struggled with infertility, telling me “get over it, accept it and start living”.
Nicky I wish you EVERY success in one day being able to have your own child, through whatever means. I hope your dream of becoming a Mumma does come true.
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Thank you for your support stink-bomb.
Did you watch Insight this week?
I wanted to reach into the tv and shake a few of the people (won’t name names, but the minister for community services was one of them).
I, too, don’t understand why anyone has the right to govern whether a woman has the right…or not, to become a mother.
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Motherhood is not a right, it is a gift. I am also tired of women relegating men to sperm donors not acknowledging how critical it is for a child (male or female)to have a father figure. PS. Yes I have children and yes it was an immense struggle to get them.
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I’m not single by choice, Just My Opinion. The only way for me to have a baby is by using a sperm donor. These men donate BY CHOICE. They are not MADE TO DO IT.
My baby will have many male influences…my father, brothers and male friends all play a big role in my life.
Also, not all hetrosexual couples stay together. Many children are, unfortunately, brought up in an unhappy family environment. The parents fight/separate and the kids are stuck in the middle.
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I think Just my opinion has read the headline “Do you need a daddy to have a baby? Not really anymore” which is, of course, click bait. Headlines colour the article, I can see how JMO has gotten to that point.
Of course, your article makes no such claim and doesn’t even go near that topic.
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No – I am sorry – this is an angle I wish to discuss in this forum – and a few people have agreed with me.
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Of course many children are born into a disfunctional environment. So yes the mother/father mix is not a guarantee of a happy family. BUT please acknowledge the role of the father for a child!
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Nicky no I didn’t. A dear friend actually messaged me on Facebook and advised me not to watch it [she lives in another state and it had just been on where she lived]. She knows my story, know’s how many losses we have [without a concrete reason as well which for me makes it all the more harder] and she said she didn’t want me to be upset by it so suggested I steer clear.
Which I did! And from everything I’ve read about it, I’m very glad I did!
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stink bomb, I agree. people need to understand that it is very hard to “get over it, accept it and start living”. You should never say ” Oh I know how you feel….bla bla bla… because the truth is you don’t. everyone has different struggles and different ways of dealing with it.
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I’m so sorry for what you have been through, it is so unfair how sometimes people who desparately want to be parents & would be great at it can’t, yet some completely ill-equipped people fall pregnant accidentally. Coping with other people’s judgement is very hard, and I think some don’t even try to imagine what it is like to desperately want a baby, before they open their mouths (or start typing)…
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Are you a mother, Mary V?
Whilst I still have time and the resources, I am NOT giving up.
Who are you to tell me when my time is up???
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No I don’t have children but I know women whose desperation to have a child at any cost has lost them friends, family and relationships so that they pretty well left with nothing. Which I think is also sad.
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Losing family and friends over wanting desperately to have a baby is horrible. It certainly shows who your true friends are. Family, is another story.
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I don’t think Mary is trying to tell you when your time is up. What I think she is trying to say is will YOU know when your time is up? The statistics can’t be ignored. By all means do everything you possibly can to fall pregnant (and I absolutely wish you luck) but if it doesn’t happen in the next few years is there an age/year/amount of money where you say that is my limit???
If you are interpreting this post as ‘snarky’ then please don’t. I’m asking a genuine question because I’m wondering when the odds are stacked against you how do you ‘preserve’ your emotional vunerability if the methods aren’t proving successful?
If it is relevant at all I have two small children and haven’t had any fertility problems so I cannot relate to what you are going through but I would dearly love for any woman who has the desire to have a baby have that wish fulfilled.
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I will know when to stop. I DO know that I can’t go through another round of IVF using my eggs. There’s no point. The odds are definitely against getting pregnant using them.
My next course of action is finding an egg donor because, although the baby won’t be genetically mine, I will have carried it.
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What a nasty, pointless thing to say.
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Well I am looking at the other side of the coin, not being nasty. How far do you go to have a baby, what risks are you prepared to take? I think these are questions all potential parents need to ask themselves at some point. I know women who have regretted their single minded determination to have a baby.
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Obviously being a couple of lesbians we had to consider the issue of where to get sperm and the implications of our choice on our lives and the life of our child. It is not a simple decision by any stretch of the imagination. If you choose an unknown donor then you are potentially denying your child the right to have a relationship (or at least know) with their biological father. Then there is the whole issue of the logistics and expense of accessing IVF to be able to use unknown donor sperm.
If you choose a known donor you are inviting another person into your life for the rest of your life. Kinda like getting married to someone only without the love and chemistry and there’s no real option of ending the marriage.
By choosing a known donor you run the risk of that person turning out to be someone totally different, someone who can threaten your idea of family by seeking custody. They may turn out to have vastly different views on the million and one issues that come up when you are raising a child (religious differences, public or private school, to vaccinate or not…).
Drawing up a donor agreement can be a complex task and one that can never fully cover all contingencies. We have had friends who’s happy donor arrangement has gone pear shaped and it has caused all sorts of anguish.
At the end of the day we were really lucky to have a friend in our life that was the ‘perfect’ donor. A man who had similar family values and morals and a very similar view on what the arrangement would look like. He became our known donor dad. His role was not to be a primary care giver or parent, his role was to be our childs biological father.
When we meet ‘stright’ people for the first time and they find out we are gay and have a daughter sometimes they are a little reserved. 99 time out of a 100 they ask how we ‘got our daughter’ and when they hear we have a known donor dad and that he spends lots of time with our daughter they suddenly warm to us.
That was our choice from a limited range of options. If I had real choice I would have adopted slightly older kids.
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I think it’s so sad and unfair that adoption options are limited for same-sex and single parents. Priorities should be whether a prospective family can adequately care for and provide for a child.
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Two Mummies, thank you for sharing your story.
Using donor sperm in NSW, whether it’s from Australia or overseas, means the donor cannot be anonymous. That’s why there are so few men who want to donate here.
The donor has no legal rights and is not monetarily bound to the child, but when he/she turns 18, can find the biological father.
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My husband is IVF (2 mums) from the late 80′s and thats before the new law that states that at 18 the child can find their biological father ,while I am saddened that there are now fewer men out there who want to donate as a result I can understand why that law was passed as my husband has struggled with the idea that in terms of his family tree it feels like to him its “like a branch that has been cut” the finality that he will never know anything about that side of his heritage. He often wonders among other things if he has half brothers and sisters and if so how many? , if he got his eyes from his donors side – things that can be taken for granted by other people.
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My eldest son’s biological father did “a service” (his words) for lesbian friends of his.
All we know is he has a half sister living in Paris somewhere who is about 5 years younger than him
My son will have to do some asking if he ever travels Europe.
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