My 4 year old son lives in an apartment. A unit. Or if you want to use the pejorative, “a flat”. On the third floor, up six small flights of stairs, far away from a lush green backyard. He has no cricket pitch, no cubby house, and no place to make mud pies.
We live in a beautiful old corner building built in the 1920s. It has high ceilings, polished floors, atmosphere to burn. But it is on a busy road, opposite a train station, above the shops. Not a place where kids would’ve lived a generation ago. No patch of lawn with sheets flapping on the hills hoist or a jacaranda tree dropping its blossoms. Our outside world is concrete and bitumen, with a couple of trees planted along the old-fashioned shopping strip. Our only backyard – a small, dank shared courtyard. Just the other day my husband spied some of the local wildlife lurking. A dead rat – he said as he snapped on the rubber gloves to get rid of it – “as big as a cat”. Kid friendly? Not so much.
Before you snort, what a pack of w*nkers, pretending to live in New York when you live in Oz, I admit that in Australia, apartment dwelling can seem weird in a country with such great weather. But aside from the joy of not having a soul-crushing mortgage, at the moment, I take a perverse pleasure our small family unit living in a unit. Because not that long ago that they were thought as rather immoral. In 1920, when Australian poet Kenneth Slessor was a young man, he rented a flat. And In Slessor’s words, his mother believed that was “only one step away from announcing that he was going to shack up with a prostitute, because flats in those days were looked upon as evil, something really evil.”
Although that view seems old fashioned today, there’s still a view that apartment living isn’t suitable for children. And if you don’t live near to a good local park, green spaces or something like a skate park across the road, which is our lucky situation, it can definitely be tough. But the reality is that with housing affordability at record low levels, apartment dwelling kids are a much more common group of children in Australian cities. It’s happened fast, in less than a generation. When I went to put my little boy’s name down at the local school, there was a problem. “Your building doesn’t appear on our map” said the woman at the front office. Yes, because in the 1950s when the local area maps were drawn up for schools in NSW, no children lived in apartments, or above the shops. Now, there are 9 kids in our building, most under school age.
For my husband and I, because we live in a city where property prices are crazy, we could only afford a house if we moved ‘further out’ – to far suburbia. But to lose the luxury of being able to walk everywhere – to the supermarket, the fruit shop, the local primary school – and to the train to take us to the city – at the moment, for us that’s too much of a trade off. For us, the thought of hours spent commuting each day would drain a lot of the colour from life. And it would be hours. Houses are so expensive where we live, could start looking at around 20 kilometres from our suburb to find something we could afford. So right now we’re choosing what the planners call “walkability” over more space. But we have asked ourselves the question many times about our flat dwelling life. Is it worth it – and are we short-changing our little guy?
Without being able to retort ‘just go outside!’ to “I’m bored!”, the reality is that daily trawl to the local park takes a lot of effort. And like most kids, my son has the energy of a small freight train. So there’s been many late afternoons with our 3 year old neighbour at the ‘witching hour’ with 2 boys clambering in and out of his bedroom window (an interior window!) and leaping up and down under a tent made of sheets. Because I just can’t be bothered to drag him to that damn park.* A poor substitute for climbing a tree or doing cartwheels in the grass, right? Probably.
But the great part of living where we do is that our little boy is a part of something. Because we can walk everywhere, all the shop owners know him. He’s showered with free bread rolls, gifts of apples, and the lovely woman who runs the cafe in our building rushes out with a tiny teddy whenever he walks past with me. Sometimes it can even feel too much. As my mother described it when she visits from Queensland – “he’s like the local rock star!” But aside from all the attention and smiles, he is getting a behind the scenes tutorial on life.
He understands that the Saturday supplements arrive on Friday and pile up outside the newsagent. He sees the left over bones being collected from the butcher by a gothic looking, open truck full of bones – enough bones to inspire lifelong vegetarianism. He watches the wood man stacking up the fuel for the wood-fired pizza oven at the pizza restaurants. He the council workers fixing the power lines, and the unwanted stuff piling up outside Vinnies. We spend a lot of time walking around the village doing our errands. We know our neighbours, and we are friends with some of them – and their children. On the best days it’s like a larger version of Sesame Street.
But even in our urban life things can feel claustrophobic. If my little guy chooses to have a tantrum in the middle of the footpath, people remember it months later. “Remember when he had a huge meltdown right in front of the gift shop?” Oooh yes, I do. I was there, dragging him up the street where everyone knows us, stifling a primal scream of ‘stop looking at us! Haven’t you ever seen a 4 year old lose it before?’
Sometimes I wish for him a childhood like mine, with an empty block next door to roam in, and hours and hours of outside time, riding our bikes with gangs of neighbourhood children with no sense of time and no parents hovering. If we got hungry we’d go home for food, or as Mum described it – ‘you just came home when it got dark’. The suburban freedom of a 1970s childhood was a glorious thing in many ways. But unless you live in the country, that sort of life is over for many of our kids. It’s car-ferrying all the way, to and from school and activities, at least while they’re young.
His childhood is already quite different. Crafting is big. Jimmy Giggle is also big. We love our neighbours, and we leave the door ajar so the boys can run in and out between our places across the hall. But rainy days can feel interminable, and like being stuck in a large-sized box with the energiser bunny. Sometimes the dream of a fibro house on a battleaxe block does seem a better alternative. But at the moment, we’re up for this life.
Because kids all over the world grow up in apartments and turn out fine. And these days a lot of people in Australia are working with less space for their families – and bringing them up without the luxury of having extra bedrooms, or a media room, or a pool. If you want to buy a house, or an apartment, you have to work within your means. And sometimes that means smaller than you’d like.
*(and of course we do take him to the park. He rides his bike.)
Nicola Harrison is a Sydney based radio producer for the ABC.
What do you think? Are apartments for children? Did you grow up in one?







Comments
228 Comments so far
I don’t think it really matters where a child is brought up as long as they have parents who spend time with them, make the effort to teach them life skills and foster their interests. Oh, and love them unconditionally. We moved into a 3 bdrm house in December, my daughter was 18 months old. I miss walking to the library and train station but the experience of spending time in the backyard & veggie garden with my daughter more than makes up for it. No better or worse just different.
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“So right now we’re choosing what the planners call “walkability” over more space….. to lose the luxury of being able to walk everywhere – to the supermarket, the fruit shop, the local primary school – and to the train to take us to the city – at the moment, for us that’s too much of a trade off”.
I can totally relate to this article. I grew up in the suburbs but now live in inner city Sydney. The above is exactly our experience. We have purposely chosen to live in inner city Sydney in a small terrace rather than a bigger place out in the suburbs for exactly the same reason and there are dozens of families living around us choosing to do the same thing. We have a train station and supermarket within 5 mins walk, a park across the road, and a school within 5min walking distance. We can also walk to work within 30 mins (the same amount of time it takes to wait for, and catch the bus).
We’re planning on having our first child within a couple of years and will definitely be staying put given how difficult it is becoming to commute in Sydney. They will just grow up living in the public domain and the park across the road rather than in their own back garden.
There is a fantastic sense of community in our neighbourhood. Everyone who owns a dog knows each other because of the dog park. In inner city Sydney this is a lot of people (last count was close to 200!). We all collide before/ after work at some point during the week in the park. Lots of parents bring their kids along too. Just from this alone we’ve ended up knowing majority of the people living around us.
At this point I wouldn’t move back to the ‘burbs if you paid me!
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My brother and I shared a room in a 2 bedroom unit while growing up and our only outside play area was a concrete carport. We used to dream of having a real backyard, grass to play on and trees to climb. It was very important to me to buy a home with a lovely large backyard and I love now watching my 4yr old and 2yr old play out there
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I love living in flats/townhouses. I really like the sense of community and knowing there are other people close by. Wouldn’t worry me to move into one with KDot at all!
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This resonated with me.
I met a friend’s mother the other day, she was asking about the children, our life etc., Then she came out with “are you still living in that tiny house with the children getting bigger? Isn’t that hard on them?”
I did a double take. We (2 parents & 2 children 4 & 3) live in a 3 bedroom house, with a large living room that runs the width of the house & a formal lounge area (for mummy’s quiet time). We have 1 bathroom, 1 garage & a front yard & rear courtyard. It is so not a tiny house! It is a lovely house in a lovely suburb. We can walk to the shops, we can walk or ride bikes to the park, we can walk to the beach….and we do…nearly every day.
The original owners of this home raised a family of 6 children in this house (without the living room at the rear)….from what I have heard (from some of our lovely neighbours) there is nothing wrong with any of those adults!
Upon reflection & discussion with my husband about whether we were making the wrong decisions for our children, I realised from whence this lady’s question came…..her daughter (my friend) is in the process of building a very, very large, very expensive home in the outer suburbs. That is wonderful for her, she enjoys housework, loves decorating homes & that is what makes her happy.
Me, I don’t relish the thought of cleaning a large house, I don’t find shopping for matching sheets, towels, bath mats etc for 3 bathrooms fun.
I like being near my family. I like being able to hear the funny little conversations that go on when they play, I like that they play out in our front yard & the neighbours all know them, enjoy watching them play & enjoy keep an eye on their hi-jinks. I like that we are teaching our children to share, the bathroom, the bedroom, toys etc.
I love that we can walk where we need to go, that the butcher knows the children & treats them to a piece of ham or frankfurt as we visit or walk past, that the people in the bakery smile & wave as we walk past…we are part of a community.
No, we love our children, just as you do Nicola, we are giving them a happy, interesting life!
As an aside, my 1st 18months were spent living in a caravan with my parents as they travelled around to various engineering jobs in very small country towns, didn’t effect me, except that I love to go one driving holidays!
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My partner wants a bigger house, but I tell him that until we are capable of keeping our modest house impeccably clean there is no way I will sign up for a bigger house. I loathe cleaning and would rather have one bathroom than the 2 we have because I hate the cleaning!
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Oh, I’m the same! Our neighbours sold their house and we thought we might trade our flat in … but the house was massive, with 3 bathrooms and 4 bedrooms (but a postage stamp backyard). I thought, I can barely stand cleaning the 1 bathroom I have now!
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I agree….
Our house is quite big but our two kids play in just a couple of rooms (their bedrooms and family room) sometimes they play in the playroom but if it disappeared tomorrow they probably wouldn’t notice.
Kids want to play and be around their parents not playing in some corner of a huge house.
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My backyard is the size of a small park and has a pool! Do you think I can get my kids to use them – no!
My sister, however, who lives in another city lives in a tiny terraced house, and she often walks down to the local park which includes a dog park and weekly markets – her kids probably see more grass than mine do!
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I live in an apartment in the inner west with my two children and they share a room.
someone said to me the other day that soon they would require more personal space. I replied that when they got part time jobs to help out then we could talk about the need for personal space!
I am surrounded by parks and I always find it amusing that my friends and neighbours close by have no idea of the many different parks within walking distance – there are some with netball courts and free tennis courts and a skate park, bike paths, cricket nets. and then there’s the playgrounds for the little people. who coudl possibly match all that in a backyard in the inner west.?
as for the neighbours, yes we have had problems in the past. I would prefer that people come and speak to me about things and not cut me dead in the driveway or at the letterbox becasue my son had a tantrum the night before! but some people are just extra judgemental -
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Was discussing pregnancies on the weekend, and the other mother said she was glad she was having another girl as that meant they could share a room. As someone who happily shared with my brother for years, I thought it was kind of a shame that she thought boys and girls couldn’t share a room.
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I’m glad I didn’t have to share a room with my brother, the stench of his farts would have killed me!
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really? Mine will be sharing a room too! No choice with 2BR. Once bubs big enough to share, out they go. I’m dreaming of being able to read in bed at night. A book. that is.
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An interesting post. I run a not for profit called Green Renters. Over 70% of inner city folk live in rental accommodation and the majority of those under 35 living in capital cities will never be able to become home owners. (see http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3470637.htm for an interesting interview).
Many people need to live close to the city for work or study or to access amenities which are not always available in the outer suburbs. Not everyone is able to drive. The only way to enable growth in these areas are to build up. If this is done in conjunction with sustainable building practices (not always the case in practice for rental accommodation) and green suburb planning which includes green neighbourhood development then living in apartments can be wonderful. I’ve visited parts of the UK, US and Germany where most people live in high rises and close density housing. Children are raised there happily without a second thought.
Vauban for example in Freiburg, Germany is an example of wonderful urban planning as it fuses social housing, energy efficiency, community development and efficient transport use. Apartment blocks are all built around a central tram line, each with their own green space with Children’s play area, social space, community centre, cafes and space for plants and gardens. If you feel passionately about the issue, talk to your local council, get involved in green groups and creating a world your children will thank you for.
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I don’t think it’s fair on yourself to compare your son’s life now to your life in the 70′s. Times are different and you are obviously doing the very best you can, and he is living a fantastic life!
I have little cousins who live in a place like you describe, the two of them even share a bedroom, and they love it! They are the coolest little chilled-out people you’ve ever met.
The other difference between the 70′s and now is that back then, there were much clearer (read: more restrictive) perceptions about what was ‘right’ and ‘wrong,’ particularly when it came to raising a family.
Now we have so much more choice! Whether it’s about marriage, civil unions, how you raise them or where you raise them, there is more acceptance now for doing things the way they work for you. And hurrah for that!
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I lived in various kinds of homes growing up. One of the best was a huge old art deco apartment right near the Botanic Gardens in Melbourne. It was heaven. My parents say I had the best backyard for those years – the Botanic Gardens!
We’ve only got a small courtyard now with our 2 preschool children and a lot of the time I wish we had a huge backyard…. but they have heaps of fun in the small space we have. And we go to the park everyday.
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I don’t think it’s cruel to the kids but I just hope you try to keep the noise down for the neighbours’ sake. Kids are really, really loud. And the same people who complain about neighbours making noise and waking the baby are often the ones who let their toddlers squeal to high heaven. (Yes, I’m a curmudgeon. And I’m fine with that.)
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You’re right, kids can be very noisy! But so can young adults. We had to move out of a gorgeous apartment building before we even had our own kids because the 3 young adults living below us were so loud. Music so loud it was like it was on full volume in our own place, loud parties constantly, loud screeching, loud sex (yep!) and their stinky cigarette smoke used to waft up into our apartment. They eventually got evicted I am told. But they drove us out!
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I don’t doubt it. Just saying all excessive noise (regardless of the source) is obnoxious and people need to be aware and considerate. People often take a “they’re kids, get over it” stance and that can cause resentment between neighbours.
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Hmmm…. people are all so different. I would be mortified if I thought my kids were being too loud for neighbours. In fact, when they are being a bit screechy I even close the windows! And we don’t even live in an apartment.
But anyway, I agree, everyone just needs to be respectful of their neighbours. Young people, old people, parents, barking dog owners…
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And herein lies the problem. The people who would be mortified if they were the ones making the noise and if was effecting a neighbour, wouldn’t do it in the first place as they are respectful to the neighbourhood.
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Pardon?? I’m not sure I am reading your comment correctly. It sounds like you are saying that I am disrespectful to my neighbours because my kids can be loud on occasion…?
Are you suggesting that I have total control of my children being loud sometimes?
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Cordeline, I think she’s saying the opposite- that you’re one of the considerate ones because you do have that awareness. It’s just that many don’t.
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We are currently dealing with this exact situation. We live in a beautiful art deco apartment in a building of eight, with all apartment facing a very pretty internal courtyard. It’s always been a very quiet building, and we’ve had great neighbours.
Recently a young couple with a baby moved in, and my husband and I, and indeed the other neighbours, are nearly tearing our hair out. They have no problems telling off resident using their balcony after 7.30pm, but by the same measure pace with their howling baby out in the tiny courtyard at 4am, thus waking up not just the apartments nearby, but the whole building.
I have no idea what to about the situation…
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Yup. And if you do complain you’re the cold-hearted child-hating grump who “doesn’t understand what it’s like to have a babeeeee”.
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A lot of parents refuse to acknowledge that noise is noise, and think their right to make it is somehow more legitimate because it’s coming from a kid and not a dog or a sound system. (And yes, those things are obnoxious, too.)
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That’s pretty much word for word what I was told at 4am…
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Is there something in your body corporate/thingy (excuse the technical term) rules about noise levels, use of shared spaces etc?
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We are currently exploring our options with the strata. We don’t want to be total arseholes, we certainly don’t want to see them on the street, but by the same measure we have a right to peaceful enjoyment of our home and building.
Frankly, I was a bit scared to even post about this in this forum, for fear of a backlash, so it’s nice that people are understanding…
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Not remotely surprised. Sorry you’re going through that, sleep deprivation is torture. And while the parents are sleep deprived too, they signed on for it. You didn’t.
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Bit of a bandaid solution, but download a ‘white noise’ app on your i phone. There are great free ones with all sorts of nature sounds. Totally blocks outside noise, and promotes calm, peaceful sleep.
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That sounds great. We have a nightshift worker trying to sleep during the day and baby in the same room (how do you like that sleep deprivation?!). It’s getting too cold for the fan.
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I live in a block of townhouses and I really dislike all the kids around. It’s not because of the noise, because they’re actually pretty quiet kids, but they’re destructive. Digging holes in the ground and not covering back up, ripping the light fittings off the outdoor lights and trying to use it as a beach ball, throwing chairs in to the pool. Some parents believe that it’s someone else’s kid doing the damage, others think that ‘kids should be allowed to be kids’, and no one is helping out with the cost.
It’s really annoying actually, and makes our nice block look like a garbage dump.
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We lived in a unit (one above us and one below) when my son was first born. He was a terrible sleeper, waking many times a night and not settling easily. This was our story from the first night home from hospital. Eventually we had to try controlled crying (this was after our first visit to Tressillian when our son was 8 months old). Our neighbours above (2 young women and a boyfriend) would stomp on their floor whenever our child cried to let us know that they had been disturbed.
We were trying our best but couldn’t make our son sleep through or stop him from crying during the night. The situation became desperate (throw in PND). We wrote a letter to our neighbours explaining our situation and they replied with a very abusive letter. We had no choice but to move out.
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That is so sad Anon. I’m really sorry that happened to you.
Sure a crying baby in the middle of the night can get on people’s nerves, but none more so than the parents of the baby. It’s impossible for everyone to understand what it can be like… but the fact that you wrote a letter to explain your situation (a very neighbourly thing to do I would think) and you abused after it, that’s just horrid.
I hope you are all getting some sleep now.
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Yes, but the parents made that choice. The neighbours didn’t. I do agree that the abusive letter was out of line, though.
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Out of line? It was appalling behaviour, pure and simple.
You seem to pride yourself on having a “it’s YOUR choice to have kids and I’m not going to humour you” attitude. There’s a lot of that going around these days actually. I get it but not sure why you feel the need to be so smug about it. I was horrified to read of Anon’s experience and then to see your cold comment about “choice” was no less disturbing. Surely a little compassion wouldn’t kill you?
The bottom line is, bad neighbours are bad neighbours, whether they have kids or not. Parents don’t have the monopoly on being annoying, you know.
But while people who play their music or TV too loud may never grow out of it, all babies eventually pass through the crying phase. One source of noise is under the tenant’s control and the other is not so they are hardly equal situations.
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I’m not smug about it. I’m not sitting here patting myself on the back and thinking I’m all wonderful and shit. I don’t “pride myself” on anything. I’m just saying it is a choice. It is a choice to have kids. It is a choice to wander out into a courtyard at four am to share the screaming with the neighbours. And I don’t think for a sceond it’s ok to be abusive towards anyone, parents or not. There would be a world of difference in my reaction to a neighbour if they came to me and said “I’m really sorry about the noise, we’re doing our best” (BEFORE a complaint was made) and parents who don’t acknowledge that it’s affecting the people around them. That’s what creates the resentment.
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Those people wandering outside to share the screaming in the middle of the night sound like a neighbour’s nightmare, no doubt. But that’s pretty unusual behaviour. The overwhelming majority of parents are mindful of the noise factor – but sometimes there is simply nothing they can do about it. And when you are dealing with a considerate, but exhausted new parent, then I think a little understanding is in order.
Saying all the time that “it’s their choice” about parents doesn’t make a baby’s crying any easier on anyone – mum and dad included. Next time you wheel out the “choice” defence, maybe have a think about this: if everyone thought only about how much sleep they will lose once a crying baby comes along then no-one would “choose” to have children at all… and then where would the world be?
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But we’re not talking about the parents losing sleep. We’re talking about it affecting everyone around them, also. Is that fair? And by the way, the considerate ones who do try to keep the noise down aren’t the ones I’m talking about. I know it can’t always be controlled. As for people no longer having babies, meh, the world is screwed and is only going to get more so. I’m not sentimental about human extinction.
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Re a baby crying, my point is that it is hard on EVERYONE, including those nearby as well as the parents. You only seem to be concerned about the impact on others as you imply the parents’ pain is deemed unimportant due to their “choice” to have kids.
In my view, there are blessings in both having children and not having them. So I don’t think it’s a matter of being “fair”, I think it’s a matter of accepting that just as the world turns and the sun shines, then babies will cry. The only way around it is not to have children – and if you honestly don’t think extinction of the human species is a problem then there’s probably not much point discussing it any further.
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The neighbours did make a choice – to live in an apartment. As annoying and inconvenient crying babies are, they are a part of life and, realistically, there is nothing anyone can do to control them. If you don’t want other people to impact on your life then don’t live in an apartment. I live in an inner city semi and the neighbours have a severely brain damaged adult son who often screams and groans all night. When it happens I hate it but as much as I complain about to my friends and family I would never ever complain to them.They can’t do anything about it (but no doubt wish they could even more than I do!). On our side we have 2 babies that sometimes scream through the night and disturb them. They dont complain to us because we can’t do anything about it. City living requires give and take, especially when the ‘offenders’ have no way of controlling the situation, even if it inconveniences you. It is a lesson in tolerance I am glad my children will grow up learning.
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Excellent response!
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“If you don’t want other people to impact on your life then don’t live in an apartment.”
True – but ‘impact on your life’ can also include ‘complain about your crying babies’.
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I would have been pleased to get a letter, as it would explain that the situation was (hopefully) temporary and would have opened the lines of communication.
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Exactly. And there was an opportunity to, I don’t know, commiserate, empathise and generally be a good neighbour.
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Thanks for all your responses. It was a few years ago now and I’m happy to report our son now sleeps through the night. We also built a house with industrial strength windows and doors that block any sound coming in and going out.
I don’t know where the wandering out into the courtyard at 4am came from but we didn’t have a courtyard. Lucky for us we had a 24hr cafe a short walk up the road so my husband and I took it in turns to take our son out at 4/ 5am for a piece of toast and large coffee for me.
Also my husband would often take my son in the car (at all hours of the night) in an attempt to settle him with the motion of the car. Sometimes I would wake in the morning and the unit was empty. I would walk around the neighbourhood and find them parked somewhere both asleep in the car!!
I’m so happy those times have passed. I hope for my neighbours sake that they have babies that sleep through from 6 weeks (ha ha).
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I am 32 and I grew up in an apartment in the city. I loved it. As a kid, you don’t know any different and you just adapt to whatever situation you are in. To this day I have never lived in a house and have no desire to.
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We lived in Montreal for 3 years in a two bedroom apartment (two adults, two children). When my son was born there were no bedrooms left, so he slept in a walk in robe. We loved apartment living and we were lucky enough to have a great green space near by. One of the great things about living downtown was that everyone began to meet up in the green space near by and it seemed to foster a wonderful sense of community. We would do it again in a flash
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My fiancé was based in Hong Kong for 6 months and lived in an apartment which is the absolute norm. In the metro areas, everyone lives in apartments and my observation of the children was that they weren’t really missing out on anything.
I work in the inner city of Sydney but live out west. Commuting sucks. It is tiring, time wasting and expensive. Avoid it if you can
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You sound like your’re doing a great job. Plenty of kids have massive backyards but spend the whole time inside anyway. Don’t beat yourself up. The way I see it, community is everything. Community and a loving home – and your boy has both!
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So true! We have a big garden and a pool. Today my kids are playing the Wii and watching last nights episode of the Voice…it is raining though
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I’m currently living in a ground floor apartment with my 9 month old and I desperately want to move. Although we live in the most beautiful neighbourhood, walk to beach, parks, shopping. I am sick of the noisy neighbours waking bub all the time, (lovely neighbours who like to chat rather loudly on balcony at 4am grrrr) also sick of the small space. Will happily trade apartment living for a move out to suburbia. That is just me though, maybe if I had quieter neighbours and a larger apartment I might feel differently, right now I just want to pack up and live somewhere quiet!
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At 4am you’re well within your rights to tell them to keep it down on the balcony.
The guy who told us to shut up at 9:30pm for talking on the balcony, on the other hand..
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Yeah I tell them all the time, they don’t really care.
I think noise before 10pm is ok, but after 10pm I think people need to keep it down, just my opinion. That guy yelling at you at 9.30pm, what an old fuddy duddy.
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Since I started reading Mamamia I’ve realised how much judgement parents seem to get for every single choice they make for themselves/their children- but I can’t believe that people would judge you for living in an apartment!!!
Personally I’d make the same decision as you- I’ve always lived somewhat inner city and at this stage of my life can’t see myself wanting to move away from this (assuming I stay living in Australia when I have kids)
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i grew up on the country and the thought of growing up in the city to me would be the worst experience ever – i want my children to have the same childhood i did and grow up with space to play and ideally i want to go back home and bring my children up there but that might not happen depends if my husband can get FIFO work if not i am happy to settle on a nice sized house in a nice area with a bit of garden
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That doesn’t sound cruel, that sounds lovely. We live on 25 acres with dams, a cubby, a huge trampoline and a bike track which I love for my kids, but that doesn’t mean that your set up is any worse. There are things about it I envy in fact.
I think that if we went to a flat now it would be tricky because they are used to so much space and are always sent outside by me, but I think your son has a beautiful sounding life.
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there are kids out there who live in slums, tents, refugee camps. terrible conditions for anyone but it seems especially sad for kids.
how anyone can see an apartment as a bad place for a child to live must have very little idea of what goes on around the world and the luxury that many of us live compared to the absolute poverty of so many others.
if you’ve got a roof over your head and you love your kids and make an effort to entertain them, then surely that’s all that should matter.
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True, but yesterday I wrote a semi flippant comment on another post wondering whether my children would be scarred for life by having no TV and the consensus was yes!!
It’s only natural to sometimes consider things just in terms of our own little worlds because I’d honestly go insane if everything I thought about was in terms of what children in the third world live like. I wouldn’t get out of bed. And I say that as someone who cares a lot and has spent my entire professional career working in social justice.
I think you’re right about what it is that children actually need, but lots of people worry about their decisions and hope that they are doing the best that they can for their kids. I hope that this has not come across as narky, because what you wrote is actually something I think about a lot.
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I know it was a long time ago (i’m 47) but we did not have a TV when i was growing up- my parents didn’t get one until after well after I’d left home at 18 – and that was very unusual even then (I didn’t know any other families who didn’t have one). Although I felt during my tween/teenage years i was missing out, I actually think now it didn’t do me any harm at all – and though that pretty much as soon as I had free access to TV! And I bet most if not all the people who said your children are missing out did have one and have alwasy done so – so thought I’d just provide some reassurance from the other side….
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That surprised me too, a few people took it quite seriously.
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True, but yesterday I wrote a semi flippant comment on another post wondering whether my children would be scarred for life by having no TV and the consensus was yes!!
We have a T.V. but for the whole of my children’s school years they weren’t allowed to watch it. They could watch a DVD movie on Friday nights, or if they were ill but that was all.
I don’t believe in children and T.V. so no I don’t believe that your children would be scarred for life.
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I also grew up without a TV after the age of 6 – it mysteriously broke one day apparently. I also felt deprived, and would watch anything on the TV when I went to friends’ houses – even ads! But know I have children of my own…. we have no TV! Although we do have computers & other entertainment gadgets.
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I think that no matter what you have, the grass seems greener on the other side. Each has equally unique benefits to a developing little boy and each has their negatives. None of us grew up in the ‘ideal’ environment and to me, it is more important that he has parents that love and cherish him, feed & clothe him appropriately than the house/flat/location you live in. just sayin.
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I agree with most of the posts on here – your child is loved and happy, living in a small apartment it isn’t cruel at all! Yes, I’m sure we’d all love to be able to afford 4 bedroom houses with enormous sun drenched back yards with cubby houses and swings but I think there’s a lot to be said for city living. In fact, I think it’s kind of fun (ok “fun” might be a generous term for it, particularly at witching hour…).
Your post reminded me of a blog I read. She is now living in Paris with her husband and two little boys (ohhh I wish) but previously lived in a tiny apartment in San Francisco. She housed her two little boys in a CLOSET (granted it was a gorgeously decorated closet) but they certainly didn’t seem to mind! Another new york blogger has done the same. I like it! http://ohhappyday.com/2011/02/moses-and-romans-closet-part-iii/
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It can be done. We stayed with our 4 children in an apartment in Paris for 3 weeks and it was rather easy. As our boys especially love to run around we were a bit worried about the noise, but we kept them so busy walking everywhere during the day by the time we got home each afternoon they were more than happy to relax quietly and go to bed early.
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I agree. Just to clarify though – this wasn’t a holiday in Paris, their home in San Francisco is tiny so the boys sleep in a converted closet.
It’s funny how perceptions change – when we were little we all shared rooms and it was never an issue of being “cruel”! I like the idea of living in a small apartment especially if it means that you can enjoy living in an interesting place and you can have more time as a family because you’re not losing hours in a commute.
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I agree. At home our kids all have their own bedrooms but loved sharing double beds together in the holiday apartment. And wanted to know why they couldnt share bedrooms at home!
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And having a garden means more time having to up keep it, and less time with the kids.
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I find it interesting that people are mainly discussing being able to afford either an apartment in the city or house in the suburbs, I’m a newlywed, live in the western suburbs of Sydney and can only afford an apartment- there are plenty of people today who live away from the city and still can’t buy a house with today’s prices…
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Its not just you. It’s a shack in the outer western suburbs of Sydney or a decent apartment west of Parramatta for me..
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For me – with a decent manager’s job, stay-at-home husband studying uni part-time, a one-year-old and a cat – it’s a few rooms at my mum’s place (we put up a couple of gyprock walls and put a shower and toilet in the laundry to turn it into a bathroom).
And it’s still an hour and a half each way to work at a minimum – three to four hours travel a day. We really can’t afford to live anywhere closer to work (we’ve looked as hard as we can).
But we like to think that in a few years’ time we’ll move to the country for a better lifestyle.
Reading these posts makes me think that as long as you have love and happiness in your home (which we do), it really doesn’t matter where you live. Which of course I know is true. It’s just nice to have that reinforced, you know?
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I think the thing to take into account in all this too is that even kids living in a house on a big block aren’t spending as much time outside. Like Nicola, my childhood was spent playing in a nearby park and riding my bike around the neighbourhood, randomly dropping in on friends with my only instructions to be home when the street lights came on. For a multitude of reasons, that just doesn’t happen any more. Xbox’s and playstations, less sense of community and a higher awareness of the different threats lurking out there mean parents aren’t as likely to let their 10 year old go play in the neighbourhood for several hours without knowing exactly where they are. My father and I comment on it every Christmas – when I was a child you could guarantee the streets would be full Christmas morning of kids playing with their new toys and comparing what they got, now the streets are empty.
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No “flat” is NOT the perjorative. It connotes exactly what you described – a spacious, charming, high-roofed, airy building dating from a time when there were building standards. “Apartment” on the other hand connotes a cheap, modern, soulless box thrown up after the building standards were relaxed in the run-up to the Olympics.
Congratulations, by buying a flat instead of an apartment you bought into the best-appreciating type of real estate available thereby increasing the financial security of your family.
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I think it’s absurd to suggest that it’s ‘cruel’ for a kid to grow up in an inner city apartment! If I had a kid, my biggest worry about growing up in the city instead of the burbs would be about community- I grew up in the burbs of a regional town that has an amazing sense of community, but from what you’ve described, so does your city block! And as you’ve said, your child is bound to benefit from the hours of extra contact time with you every week. Growing up in the burbs was awesome, but I’ll bet growing up in the city could be awesome too. Give yourself a break! It might be different to what you once imagined parenting wiuld be, but it’s definitely not ‘wrong’!
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I am a very lucky mumma, as we have 7 lovely acres for us and our children. We aim to grow all our own fruits and vegies, and we have chooks…..a lovely lifestyle! However…….when we drive closer into the city the kids go wild for the trains, buses, traffic lights, the beach, all thouse things we don’t have here. My sister has a house close to the city and we plan to do house swaps for hoildays with our families, as both families can share the experience of city and country living. I think children feel safe and are accepting of their home and environment, be it country, city, large home and block, or apartment. What they know is what they know. As a parent though I am glad to be able to wander around and pick food with the kids, or even sit outside in my jarmies and watch them play. I think more space can be easier on the parents, but really, the kids will be fine as long as they get many and varied experiences.
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Gee that sounds like a nice lifestyle.
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I live in the suburbs with my family & I can definitely see the benefits of living closer to the city in an apartment…we went to Kyoto last October and stayed in a traditional Japanese townhouse. It was fantastic (although narrow!) but they obviously have no choice but to live that way. It was great to walk 5 min to the Metro and 2 min to the park. My understanding is that being out ‘in the suburbs’ does NOT translate to ‘being outdoors more’. I encourage my kids to be outdoors but that can be difficult?! I think if we lived in a smaller place near the city then we would spend more time getting out of the place (not to mention, it sounds like if you can walk/bike it to work instead of driving or catching the bus because you live closer to work that it would be better for everyone fitness wise)
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What is to feel guilty about? he is fed, loved and nurtured – anything else is a luxury.
I lived above the shops at uni and I loved it- it is a different life but has it pleasure and benefits just like large houses have benefits also.
We just moved into our first big house and it is nice I have to say but the small house was fun also.
May e your bringing him up with a more sustainable idea of life and space- large houses and blacks add to urban sprawl and commuting to work is a time waster and time is precious with small kids.
Don’t make excuses for a life that works for you. I am sure your son will do just fine
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We rent an apartment with two small children; we can’t afford house rental prices in Sydney; with one child recently diagnosed with autism we really need to be close by to early intervention help and also family support. Can’t see us ever being able to afford to buy a place which is a bit scary in terms of what do you leave to your kids; or what happens to your kids if something happens to you – especially if they have a disability.
I also worry a lot about living in an apartment on the top floor with kids falling out windows and off balconys – when it’s not your place you can’t just make adjustments to their property; and it’s not that easy to find good apartments that are kid safe.
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Inner city living! I love it! We have lived in small poky houses, an apartment and now we are in a two bedroom divided house! 3 kids in the large master bedroom and mum and dad in the smaller not so grand room. One living space, bathroom and laundry in one and a small patch of grass out front where the kids play (witch is mostly taken up by a trampoline). We have friends who live in apartments and friends in houses with large yards. All the kids are happy and healthy. Do I wish/long for a house with a yard??? Yes!!! But its all about quality of life (in the sense of what you can afford). Can we afford to let the girls play soccer and do dance lessons?? Yes (just). Can we occasionally take them out to do something fun? Can we enjoy all the great coffee shops around???YES!!!! Can I afford to feed and clothe my family?? YES!! We also get more quality time together as, if we were to move into a house it would be further out away from the city (husband works in the city). He would spend more time getting home to us each evening. Another big thing is….has it allowed me to stay home for the past 7 odd years and spend time with my girls. For this I am happy to live where we live. We will need to move somewhere bigger eventually and that is when I will return to work and start the work kid juggle. So I guess what I am saying is kids are happy anywhere as long as they have the essentials in life, people that love them, food, clothes and somewhere dry and warm to live.
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that would be which not witch!!!
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I have strong feelings about this. We cannot just keep extending the urban growth boundaries and reducing our national park space to allow everyone a quarter acre block. We need to make the most of our space and that often means subdividing and building up, not out. That means apartment living and sharing green spaces. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and our children will not grow up deprived.
It is selfish to think that we have the right to clear native bush so that every family can have a huge backyard which our children might use for 1-2 hours a day, when native wildlife used to live there 24/7. Much more efficient use of space to share green spaces with our neighbourhood.
We own a tiny house with minimal outdoor space, but are within 5-10 mins walk of 3 fantastic parks which we visit nearly every day. My daughter has a fabulous life and is in no way deprived for not having a few 100 square metres of outdoor space at home. We visit beaches and national parks often and we walk everywhere which we could not do if we lived 25km out of the city.
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Such a good point. And I wonder too if living in a small space forces you to be more active in getting out and enjoying parks, beaches and outdoor activities. Would being in a big house with a big yard make you take it for granted and just leave the kids to go outside if they feel like it rather than making an effort to take them out and play with them? I know not everyone would be like that – just a thought.
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This is what it’s like for us. We live in the inner city and have a townhouse with a small courtyard in the front. Definitely no space to throw a ball. But we are 5 minutes walk from a beautiful park and a 10 minute walk to the beach so whenever it’s a nice day we’re either at the park or at the beach. If we had a large yard we would never feel the need to get out of the house which I think is much more fun and suits my family a lot better.
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As an urban planner, I agree. Australians need to get over this feeling of needing a house and a large block of land, for the future of our cities. Medium density across a greater area is a key solution to this, but people are resistant to buying anything other than a single family dwelling.
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How much bush is being cleared for housing? From what I see it is mostly reclaimed farm land.
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Farm land is just as important. Food security is going to be an issue in the future and pushing farmland further from the city’s fringe is going to significantly increase the price of food when the impact of peak oil and peak phosphorus hits.
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i think you have prioritised spending time with your child over spending hours commuting or working second and third jobs to afford a crippling mortgages. i don’t see anything wrong with that. the sense of community your son is growing up with is probably more than many suburban communities with no high street, just massive shopping centres.
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6 months ago I moved from acreage to a ground floor unit in an inner city suburb. Instead of getting home in the dark and spending half our life in the car, I can now pick my son up from school some afternoons. We have a park over the road and a bike path. After years spent maintaining a large block, I love that the only work on weekends is a bit of housework (much less in a unit than a house) and I can enjoy relaxing time with my son. Because we are closer to everything now we go to the park, museums etc. life is much better now
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We chose the outer suburbs and a big block and have to battle to get the kids to play outside – they worry about snakes, prickles etc and would prefer to be indoors playing music, board games, reading and the inevitable xbox. Like a lot of parents I know, we encourage healthy activity but in reality they get more exercise at school, organised sports and family outings than in their own backyard. I can see lots of advantages to inner urban lifestyles for children and parents. As always, there’s no one right way. Thanks for thought provoking writing.
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We live in an apartment with 2 kids to be close to my parents. It is absolutely doing my head in. I can’t leave my parents due to ill health, but i need a house. Can’t see a solution as the area my parents live is so expensive.
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Some great points, one that has been made which needs more attention and govt help is the housing affordability crisis. It is becoming so hard for people my age to be able to afford a unit- apartment and definitely not a house! Not because we spend too much shopping
but by the time we pay rent, insurance, petrol (1.59 L!!) health cover etc, there isn’t a lot to save… When 10-20% of the price is needed by the banks… I’m going to be renting forever :/
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I hear you. I feel like my generation has more or less been priced out of the housing market. Add to that the continual increases in bills – health insurance, electricity, rent, petrol – which are not matched by adequate increases in salary and I feel like I’m living paycheck to paycheck. Add to that again a 5k credit debt due to a bunch of surgeries over the last two years and there’s very little chance to save. It’s awful.
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What a FWP. How spoilt Australians are. Millions of children around the world live in apartments – the vast majority of kids in Asia for one. I’m sure they think nothing of it and are not bemoaning their lack of a backyard. Kinda ridiculous to say its ‘cruel’.
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Oh I hate this… describing any gripe or discussion point anyone ever has as a ‘First World Problem’… can’t people see that by doing this we’re telling people their problems don’t matter? It’s effectively silencing any discussion about anything.
I agree that we’re SO lucky in Australia to have these sorts of choices and that a ‘pokey apartment’ here is a ridiculous luxury in other parts of the world and that using “cruel” in the headline is a bit of an exaggeration but I am so tired of people pulling out the ‘FWP’ card every time anyone tries to discuss anything!
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It’s pointless to say things are a first world problem.
Most things to people in the first world are first world problems.
Don’t discount what is a meaningful discussion about an issue in the collective social psyche just by trashing it as a FWP.
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I stand by what I say. Get some perspective people. Take a look how the other 99% of the world live.
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Oh please, almost all the comments in here begin with “I am lucky to have…”… most people are aware of how lucky we are and can appreciate that the ‘problems’ discussed here pale in comparison to the rest of the world.
Pray tell, KL, what CAN we talk about? I’m tipping you don’t visit the Mamamia site to read about the situation in Sudan – so tell me, what exactly can we discuss today that won’t garner a dismissive, patronising comment from you?
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While reading the article it did occur to me that most kids in dense cities would grow up in apartments, like NYC or Hong Kong. It’s surely not remarkable there. I wonder if the discussion of city vs suburbs evokes such heated debate in cities like these, does anyone know?
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I live in Hong Kong and the answer is of course no the debate doesn’t happen here, because 99% of the population lives in an apartment! Only the very wealthy or those indigenous to certain areas in the New Territories live in houses (and there is currently a lot of controversy here about the village houses of the indigenous population as many of the owners have gained enormously from the very expensive land prices here)
Also the average apartment here is tiny. We are lucky enough to live in a very spacious apartment with a big communal garden – with grass which is very rare here. But we are extremely well off compared to the average Hong Konger, although at the middle of the range on the expat scale.
But my children, while definitely missing some of the benefits of the Australian lifestyle, still get plenty of outdoors. There are country parks very close to us, also playgrounds and beaches. During the summer we go to the beach every weekend. They are also both great swimmers as we have access to a number of pools close by. Also they (and us) get lots of other experiences through living in this amazing city and travelling in Asia that we just wouldn’t get in Australia. And when we move back we’ll have all the other advantages that Australia offers.
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I am lucky to of had a childhood on a farm with acres to run around on. My sons are lucky to have that same upbringing too. I always used to want to live in the inner city in a tiny apartment just to try it out.
We are lucky enough that we go to the city and stay in the guts of everything a couple of times a year. In our apartment it is a two bedder with a fair sized open living area, no balcolny though. It is great to stay in if you want to “do” the city things we never get where we live. But I wouldn’t want to live there full time with three wild boys. It is too hard to stop them running, climbing, and doing boy things. This could be because they are used to large spaces too, if I brought them up in an apartment I guess they would be different.
If I had to pack up and move to the city I couldn’t do an apartment with three boys. I probably could if it was just me though.
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I am starting to think about buying my first place and LOVE the idea of an apartment – there are so many things I would rather have that a garden is easy to sacrifice. That said, I am young and single – it might be different with a child, although all the time not spent commuting or maintaining a home could be spent in other outside spaces.
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We moved out of Sydney and even interstate so that our kids could grow up in a house with a backyard. Before our kids came along we had always lived within a 20 minute bus ride of the city and loved it. The appeal of Sydney for us was always the city, not the burbs and the thought of buying a house further out and commuting up to two hours each way sounded like hell on a stick! So we up and moved to a smaller city where we could afford to buy a house rather than a unit. It was the right decision for our kids and they have an awesome life here but sometimes I wonder if it was the right decision for my husband and I to move so far away from all our friends and family, the beaches, the amazing warm, sunny weather and all the cultural places and events we loved in Sydney. We ask ourselves, are we happier for living in a big house with a big backyard, instead of an inner city apartment, within walking distance of everything we loved about Sydney? To be honest, I don’t really know if we are…
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I lived in a unit for 12 months when my parents were in between selling our house and buying a new one when I was about 8. I loved it. We had a huge underground carpark that was so spooky but fun to explore. Luckily my sister and I were older and at school so I doubt we caused the mostly elderly neighbours much bother. Actually they loved us and often invited our family in for afternoon tea, it was a much friendlier neighbourhood than the ones we lived in houses in.
However, I think with any dwelling with common walls parents need to be especially considerate of their neighbours when their kids are young. My parents have downsized to a semi and the new family on the other side of their common wall have 3 small children. It is driving my parents, who love children and have 6 grandchildren of their own, completely crazy. The kids run up and down the hallway from 5am each day, which booms through the wall. They bang on the wall and basically behave pretty terribly. The previous family had children too and my parents never heard a peep out of them. The difference was the parents reined them in. The new family lets them run wild. A girlfriends parents are in the same position and currently have their unit on the market because the block has become full of families with young children who are very noisy and its making their retirement years very unpleasant. I think apartments and kids only work when the parents take control of their kids behaviour and take them to the park to let off steam and not let them do it inside at their neighbours expense.
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Of course kids can live in apartments. Apartments can be big and small.
In my opinion, yes a house is better, with a big backyard and perhaps in a
court or small street where kids can feel a bit safe and play games.
I grew up in a house with a big front yard and loved it. I had a secret garden around the side and was able to ride my bike around the front and back (with a few squeesy stops!)
You do what you can do – if you don’t want a big old morgage then why not enjoy the benefits of an apartment. It’s a completely personal choice.
I myself have always loved living in a house, and it’s been a luxury. Going from that to an apartment, especially one with alot of noise (or dare I say it, kids!) would be tough, but do-able. I’m guessing every unit block is different so it’s hard to say!
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pretty sure that most kids living in apartments would spend more time outside than kids in the ‘burbs!
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I scoffed at this. Asif’.
But as a child of the suburbs.. then I thought about it.
I live in an apartment inner city now…
I cycle 10k’s to a from work every day, walk everywhere, catch the tram, we don’t have a lift so it’s 3 flights of stairs up and down every single time..
Life CAN be more sedentary when you live in the ‘burbs, as everything is so far away you drive to the shopping centre, get out and take the elevator..
Agreed.
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Totally. I wrote below that I lived in apartments for almost all my childhood. It was extremely rare that a day would go by where I wasn’t out doing stuff for at least a few hours. Even when the weather was dreadful there were places to go. The year I spent in the suburbs was easily the most sedentary of my life.
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You do what’s right for your family! Nothing is perfect, there’s always a “what if”, but really as long as he’s loved, your child is going to be just fine, grass or not.
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I am lucky to have a beautiful house on a gorgeous block with a little cubby and plenty of grass for my little girl. We chose the bigger house and yard close to family in the area we grew up an hour out from the city over the urban living due to affordability. We love our house, but we don’t get home until close to 7 each night due to the commute to work. We sacrifice time at home with our little family for that extra bit of green and space. What I would give to live inner city and have that extra hour with her instead of in the car but you can’t have it all and we make the best of what we do have – which seems to me exactly what your little family does too
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Thanks for a beautifully written article that was great to read. My husband and I are currently living in an inner city suburb and absolutely love it here but the housing is very, very expensive. Articles like this give hope to young families who are scratching their heads at property prices while also not wanting to sacrifice valuable family time due to a long commute.
Sydney house prices seem to me to be far higher than other Australian cities. Plus, due to the traffic and public transport issues even living 10 kms out can mean a grueling commute.
We keep talking about some of the things that are wrong with society – congestion on the roads, a lack of community, pollution from over use of cars…it sounds to me like your apartment living is a great solution to many of these issues.
Well done Nicola for not living the norm just because that is what is expected.
And for all of the critics who judge just because this little boy is living in an apartment – I would love to see how many kids in McMansions with backyards actually use them and how many are indoors playing video games the majority of the time.
Nicola sounds like an amazing mother who is ahead of her time.
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I have a friend who sold her ‘McMansion’ in one of the new suburbs in Sydney and moved back to the inner suburbs to an apartment because nobody was home during the day. All the brand new huge houses sit empty most weekdays. She found it very lonely.
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I grew up in apartments, and I loved it. I loved living in cities, there was always so much to do. Living in a smaller space forces you to get out and do stuff. As a kid I was always going to museums, markets, the theatre, movies, cafe’s etc. There was always something cool to do. We lived in the suburbs for a year when I was 7-8, and it was so boring! I spent far more time just sitting inside than I ever did in the city.
And of course, when I got older I had much more freedom because I wasn’t reliant on my parents to chaffeur me everywhere. I learnt how to be independent, and I had a lot more opportunity. I was really into fashion as a teenager, and I was able to volunteer at Fashion Week, intern with buyers during the school holidays, do work experience with theatre costume designers, work after school at boutiques and up and coming fashion houses etc. I got to meet some amazing people and make some fantastic connections when I was still very young. My friends were able to do the same, whether their thing was cooking or law.
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I moved to a city for uni when I was 19, and I was really struck by how many awesome opportunites city kids would have had in high school compared to me and my school buddies did in a more regional area, included specialized schools etc! Glad to hear from some one who obviously seized them!
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Thank God I’m not the only one! We have an inner-city three bedroom apartment with full facilities and everything close by. Every time someone asks when we’re getting a house I politely explain that if I wanted to live in the cubs I’d go back to the state we’re originally from.
Living inner city kept me feeling connected to the outside world when I had my babies and we could never afford the pool, tennis court and gym, let alone the botanic gardens up the rd and gallery pretty much at the end of our street.
Our neighbours are fabulous and we just love our little community. The stairs are a pain but that’s a tiny trade off for the lifestyle and impact it has on my mental health!
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I totally respect you for making a choice of community and living within your means. Kids all over the world grow up in small spaces, and often have a lot less than kids in Australia. The idea that our kids ‘need space’ is something that only people who live in western, middle class societies think about. Kids need food, clothing warmth, love, stimulation and a multitude of other things. A parent who is on the ball can provide this anywhere!
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