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Home birth campaigner and mother Caroline Lovell has tragically passed away during the birth of her second child.
She was 36.
Caroline long campaigned for midwives present at home births to have funding and indemnity and made a submission to the Federal Government Inquiry into Health Legislation Amendment (Midwives and Nurse Practitioners) Bill 2009, to that effect.
News.com.au reported:
A mother who died while giving birth to her daughter at her Melbourne home was a strong advocate for home-births, declaring in a government submission that she would be have no choice but to have an unassisted birth at home if midwives were not legally protected.
Online tributes have been pouring in for Caroline Lovell, who died after giving birth to her second daughter Zahra at her home in Watsonia on Monday last week.
The 36-year-old was rushed to The Austin Hospital in cardiac arrest at 10.30am, but died in hospital the following day, a report in this morning’s Herald Sun revealed. A private midwife is believed to have been assisting her during the home-birth.
“A spokeswoman for Midwives in Private Practice said it was the first time she has heard of a maternal death following a home birth in her 15 years’ experience working as a midwife.
“It’s very very rare and it’s just impossible to imagine what might have happened,” she said.
Health Services Commissioner Beth Wilson said she had long held concerns about home births when medical back up may not be immediately available.
“I’m very sad to hear about this and I know the coroner will conduct a full and thorough investigation.”
An Ambulance Victoria spokeswoman confirmed intensive care paramedics were called to the home in Melbourne’s north at approximately 10.30am. She said the woman was critically ill when they arrived. The Age reported the Ms Lovell was in cardiac arrest.
The Coroner will investigate the death.
OK, let’s play this one carefully. We do not know what happened during Caroline Lovell’s homebirth. There are now two little girls without a mother and a man left without his wife to raise his daughters alone. A tragedy under any circumstances.
Please can we keep the comments respectful of these facts. We considered not running this story today for those reasons. Just like when freebirthing advocate Janet Fraser’s baby died during her homebirth (freebirthers opt to give birth at home without any medical support, even from midwives – Caroline Lovell was NOT freebirthing and was attended by two midwives).
Is covering these stories insensitive? Cruel? Unecessary? Or is it vital that we are open and honest about how things can go wrong very quickly during birth and that the consequences can be fatal and tragic?
On balance, we have decided to carefully and respectfully cover this story. Because while the grief of those affected by the death or injury of a baby or mother during a homebirth must be unimaginable – just like the grief when either of those things happen in a hospital and yes, they do happen – there are pregnant women making decisions about how they give birth every day and they need to be aware of the full picture.
When I went to look for information on the death of Janet Fraser’s baby during her freebirth, I found that all the threads on the freebirthing and homebirth forums that dealt with bad outcomes (including the death or injury of the baby or mother) were locked and not visible to the public who were only able to read the happy health birth stories.
Such censoring of the full picture from those who are considering where to give birth is not only disengenuous but – in my opinion – dangerous.
As Herald Sun columnist Susie O’Brian wrote today:
Around 700 women across Australia give birth at home and in my opinion that’s 700 too many. The problem is that fit, healthy women can still have traumatic, problematic births where things go wrong, and the time it takes to get to an emergency ward can be the difference between life and death.
Yes, women and babies do die in hospitals too, but there are less risks when you have the best medical attention on hand. Research shows that home births are more risky, particularly for the babies, and I don’t know why anyone would take the chance.
Up to half of all first-time mothers attempting a home birth have to be transferred to hospital due to complications, according to Dr Ted Weaver, president of the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.
I appreciate many women may want a natural, low-intervention birth.
But this can be achieved in birthing centres attached to hospitals.
Home births should no longer be an option.
According to the latest major study from the US and Europe, which looked at 342,056 planned home births and 207,551 planned hospital births, planned home births have almost three times the risk of neonatal deaths.
I make no apology for being a hospital girl myself. Even though I have straightforward, uncomplicated births, during my third birth, I hemorrhaged and needed urgent medical attention. It was unexpected but then, there’s very little about giving birth that isn’t unexpected.
Which is why the idea of being away from immediate medical support is one I would personally never contemplate. Not for a moment.
Yes, I know that in many countries such as the Netherlands and even the UK, many women give birth at home. But the Australian medical system is not set up for that. It’s different here.
Regardless, our thoughts and sympathy go out to Caroline Lovell’s family and those of anyone who has been lost during childbirth.
What has been your experience of home or hospital birth? If you plan to have children one day, how would you like to give birth?
Comments
744 Comments so far
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In regards to the ”stories” of birth, I have a friend who sent out a birth story which sounded wonderful – but conveniently left out all the complications and hard bits.
I’m not saying she had to forgo any privacy or reveal all, but she was a birth practioner and using her experience as basically a marketing tool.
I think this was misleading to her prospective clients and turned alot of people off her because she was quite smug. I’m not saying she shouldn’t be proud of her achievements, but she was very careful at managing her brand.
I was a little bit miffed after I had my first child that I didn’t know more about birth and different scenarios to help manage it more effectively. Although, I trusted that myself and partner would be able to make the best decision at the time based on my circumstances and the facts.
I had a wonderful hospital birth and although it didn’t go to plan, I felt supported and taken care of.
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Im personally very strongly opposed to home birth and don’t understand why anyone would want to take the extra risks that could possibly arise in a home birth when we have hospitals and birthing centres available for use. I understand that things do go wrong in hospitals too but common sense tells me that although some medical issues can’t be prevented anywhere, many others could be possibly be avoided or resolved in a medical environment. Women who live in impoverished countries who have no option but to deliver at home or the likes would probably love to have the chance to deliver their babies in an environment where medical help and expertise is readily available.
Having said that, my heart breaks for Caroline Lovell and her family. Just because I disagree with her birthing choices doesn’t mean I could feel anything less than devestation for the loss of someone’s wife, mummy, daughter. Sending good thoughts, love and light to her family.
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I Agree 100% Ebony.
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What a total tragedy. Her poor family. So so sad. I can’t imagine what her husband is going through. My thoughts are with them.
I have had two very quick labours and complication free births, however, my children arrived so fast I consider myself “lucky” that I didn’t end up with two unplanned home births! Our first was born within 5 minutes of arriving at the hospital after an active labour of 80 minutes (didn’t even manage to get fully undressed or even onto the bed) and our son was born after 6 minutes of pushing – and this is only because we were already at the hospital and the midwives managed to slow me down! Yes, yes, everyone hates me.
What these experiences taught me was that MY body is totally made for having babies and I have faith that it can birth as many babies as I might reasonably expect to want. I count myself extraordinarily lucky in this respect. Hindsight tells me that if my babies had been born at home, all would have, most likely, been well.
However, should I have any more children, my preference is for hospital births all the way. I like the security of knowing that if something goes awry, I (and my child) are already in the best place possible to receive the help we may need.
This is my preference, but I think that I would defend a woman’s right to choose to give birth at home. I totally agree with Mia that access to all information can only be a good thing so that women can make honestly informed decisions in regards to their pregnancy and birth care.
Honest, sensitive and open discussion should be encouraged so that all the facts can be presented.
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The argument about hospital births going wrong too is a really bizarre way to defend home births.
The fact that sometimes mothers or babies die in hospital just shows how fast things can go wrong, even with every bit of medical help around you.
So what hope do you or your baby have if things go wrong and you DON’T have access to that kind of help?
Surely it just proves that home births are even riskier.
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Great point.
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So true!
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This is a great point SundayR. Exactly what I was thinking but u have said it for me.
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Amazingly put!
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And I’m pretty sure the hospital birth/death numbers include those that have been brought in because something’s gone wrong with a homebirth too. Strange logic to use, I agree.
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Not in recent studies and government reviews, they go by planned place of birth, not actual birth place.
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Tragic.
What we don’t hear though is hospital births that go wrong and there are no doctors available. If something went wrong with my last birth, I would have had to wait to see a doctor as they were all busy. That was in a major capital city hospital too.
I desperately wanted a home birth this time around but the mister refused so we are having the closest thing – a birth centre birth.
I’d never judge a woman on her birthing choices, some of the most amazing birthing stories I’ve read are free-birthing ones while that wouldn’t exactly be my choice of birth.
I think, in Australia, we are lucky to have the choices we, rightfully so, have. An informed choice/decision is much more important than no choice at all.
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But if something had gone seriously wrong during your birth, I bet doctors would have come running. Maybe you just didn’t see them because there were other people in greater need and you were OK?
Not trying to be argumentative, just pointing something out.
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My baby did get stuck and I remember hearing the midwife say that all the doctors were busy.
I totally get your point though and that’s something, thankfully, we’ll never know
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“What we don’t hear though is hospital births that go wrong and there are no doctors available.”
–I must say this is very unusual. Yes, hospitals are busy places and often the doctors are busy and can take time to attend for non-urgent matters. But in an emergency call or very urgent situation, the codes are called and the right people come running. Even in a small country hospital where the doctor may be on call at home – they are usually only a few minutes away, easily contacted by phone, and can come straight in when needed – and often midwives/nurses are clever enough to call them earlier and warn them when there is a situation that may go pear shaped.
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Well no. If something went significantly wrong and your life was immediately threatened they would have pushed a button and had a resuscitation trolley, and every doctor and nurse on the floor in your room within one minute.
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off topic: when my baby got stuck, the room filled with doctors. It was like a mardi gra float with everyone wearing white boots and white coats. When I was rushed away for an emergency c-sec, my husband said a man RAN, like, sprinted, past him in the hall. He recognised him again in theatre, it was the anaesthetist.
Thanks goodness for fast doctors!
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Same here. I had post birth internal bleeding which the nurse picked up while routinely checking my blood pressure. She pressed the red button and the room was instantly full with every doctor and nurse that was on the floor at the time I think. Would hate to think what would have happened if I was at home.
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Yeah. If there is a true emergency going on in a hospital it’s drop everything and RUN.
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It was like a mardi gra float with everyone wearing white boots and white coats.
I nearly spilled my coffee all over myself, thanks! Just too funny.
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Whatahooha, in no way do I mean to disrespect your situation, but reading that the aneasthatist sprinted past your hubby to get to theatre for you actually made me smile and think ‘God, doctors are amazing’ we are so, so lucky to have the advanced medical care we have in this country.
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But at least IN the hospital, there is blood, medications, sterile operating rooms, oxygen, and every other conceivable tools necessary to secure the best possible chance for mother and child. This family has my deepest sympathies, but let’s be honest, midwives, while incredible and wonderful, are not doctors. This whole situation is tragic, I had 2 normal pregnancies, 1 normal birth, and 1 where everything went wrong, and the only reason we both lived was because we were at the hospital. It’s the safest option for both mother and child
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When Janet Fraser died, this was reported in the press:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/four-dead-in-home-birthing-including-joyous-birth-advocate/story-e6freuy9-1225697745818
Health officials yesterday warned the lives of more babies and their mothers were at risk as women increasingly turned their backs on the state’s beleaguered public hospitals.
Westmead Hospital director of women’s health Dr Andrew Pesce said he was aware of at least four deaths and another four homebirth babies who sustained possible brain damage since last July.
Dr Pesce said the tragedies showed it was time to reform maternity services to attract back women who have become refugees from the hospital system.
Dr Pesce said it was time the increased risks of home birth were acknowledged and addressed.
“There are one or two extra deaths per 1000 deliveries and I wish people would acknowledge that,” Dr Pesce said.
“It’s often presented as if there are no downsides to a home birth only up sides.”
He said obstetricians and the health system had to take some responsibility and try to attract women back to the hospital system.
“In the hospital system we need to get our act together rather than make them refugees of the system,” Dr Pesce said.
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Janet Fraser’s not dead. Unfortunately she’s still spruiking the exact same process that killed her baby. And is on the record saying she preferred the week long “free birth” that resulted in a dead baby to having her other kids in hospital.
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Oh this is sad. She was beautiful.
I think women need to be very well informed with evidence based information on the risks of all their options, as well as their rights in hospital. You CAN give birth in hospital without intervention if you want to, but if things go wrong quickly they are there to save your life.
Birth isn’t a sickness, but it’s one of the most dangerous things that humans can do. I think a well informed woman can have a great experience in a birthing centre or hospital, and still have the back up of modern medicine if they are that unlucky one who gets a life threatening complication.
There’s no right or wrong way to do it, as long as you are informed and not listening to the horror stories,bias, or bullshit “medical” advice of others.
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I have no children but I do read alot of material about birthing & I am very pro for womens liberation and education when it comes to ‘planning’ childbirth. I give my full support to the one world birth movement and women taking back childbirth from being a ‘medical scenario’ to a natural one.
My mother, a nurse and my boyfriend, a paramedic are both vehmently against homebirthing but the natural freedom associated with homebirthing really appeals to me, the choice is a while away but I would hope that there are safe choices for me to consider, not just hospital.
There are numerous problems with the homebirthing system, with the government currently trying to make it even more difficult for women to choose this option. There are also numerous problems with birthing in hospitals. I don’t know what I would choose, but I understand why she chose to birth at home and I understand why women choose to birth at hospital, but isn’t the point that all women deserve to have a SAFE choice?
It is a very sad day for this womans family and a scary day for women who are considering this option!
This is the oneworld birth trailer, if you havent already seen it I highly recommend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w9WNtTAVYU
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Kate O,
With the greatest respect, maybe listen to your mum and your boyfriend? Their job is to know about risks and they also see what happens when things go wrong.
Trust their expertise……
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I had a hospital birth and I tried to keep everything as natural as possible in the birthing suite but had complications resulting in an emergency C section. Had I chosen to be at home there is every chance either my baby or myself might have died. I know why women would want that natural experience and feel in control of the environment, but the truth is we aren’t ever 100% in control of the outcome and it isn’t a risk I would personally want to take vs. having medical staf – and yes, that dirty word – intervention – on hand.
It is truly tragic what has happened to the Lovell family and also a shame that such a high profile advocate of home births has cast a very big shadow over something she was so passionate about.
I wonder how many of the women who have had babies at home with complications, or resulting in death, or longer term complications to either the baby or mother, would choose to have another home birth. And in my wonderings, I acknowledge that the reverse scenario such as Anonymous’s post below could also apply, but aren’t subsequent births somewhat easier than the first? – a bit of a generalisation – but again wondering out loud.
I think it is correct to discuss it on forums such as this, even if we don’t all agree, rather than sweep it away.
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I was so saddened to hear this news this morning, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the family of Caroline. What worries me is that the Media are going to grab hold of this story (as they have already) and use this example as a reason to condemn and put a black cloud over home birthing.
I believe it is every womans right to choose how and where to give birth, i personally would not have a home birth but totally respect and support mothers (and their partners) who make this choice.
I am a mother of a beautiful, lively ten year old girl, who was let down by a Hospital during my labour, and through this negligence my daughter has Cerebral Palsy (Spastic Quadriplegia) and uncontrolled Epilepsy, she is fed through a peg tube in her stomach and has several serious medical issues. I had a healthy pregnancy, i worked up until i was eight months, was on The Midwife Programme through the Hospital where she was born and everything was going along perfectly. When i presented with some pain in my back three days before her birth i was admitted to the Hospital, taken off the Midwife Programme for supposedly my, and my daughters safety. That is where things went from bad to worse. Due to a comedy of errors, lack of communication, laziness on the behalf of the Obstetrician on call at the time, and the fact that it was a weekend in a country hospital, my daughter and i were flown down to the Royal Childrens Hospital after her horrific birth (she wasn’t breathing when she was brought out by an emergency Caesarian, was intubated and didn’t breathe on her own for 40 long minutes.) She spent ten days in NICU. The damage to her tiny brain was already done. I successfully sued the hospital, who tried everything within their power to sweep it under the rug. My daughter and I are living proof that mistakes are made in hospitals, Doctors are NOT God, birthing is a risk regardless of the birthing choice. I truly hope that Caroline’s and my story can raise awareness for people to be prepared for anything, speak up if you are concerned, but always be given the right to freedom of choice.
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I’m so sorry to hear your story.
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Thanks Kerryn, yes it was and has been a tough time, but i still have the most beautiful, brave and loving daughter any mother could wish for. I consider myself lucky, as many women can’t have children.
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hi Kerryn,
I had a reply from someone called “An Idle Dad”, but i can’t find it on here. So i replied via your response to me, and i think it must have gone to your email address? As it’s not on here, hope that makes sense, sorry if that’s an inconvenience.
Kind regards:)
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Much love to you and your daughter. And I am glad you were successful in suing the hospital…no mean feat I am sure. x
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As a doctor who has worked in obstetrics before, I find it hard not to take it personally sometimes when home-birthers etc get riled up. I feel like sometimes people are essentially saying that I do not want what is best for them, that I am trying to lead them to harm in some way – and I don’t know why – what would I have to gain by doing extra procedures that are unneccessary? First of all, I don’t know any doctors who struggle to find work – so you can’t tell me they are trying to drum up business and increase their salaries by admitting more patients. Secondly, I don’t know what my motivation would be for doing extra interventions when they were not needed – when there is potential for a horrible outcome for mum/baby – leading to not only a disaster from the personal point of view, but a potential lawsuit/loss of career.
I used to get a bit upset when women would act like I was torturing them for fun by putting in an IV or something like that.. I loved nothing more than a completely normal, complication free birth. Unfortunately, sometimes life isn’t like that. If the monitor shows your baby is in distress, and you aren’t close to pushing him out, I’m going to recommend assisted delivery or c-section – sure, there’s a chance he will come out okay, but there’s a higher chance he won’t without intervention and I prefer to play on the safe side. It has NOTHING to do with my wanting to make more money, or simply just enjoying inflicting pain and suffering – I became a doctor because I wanted to REDUCE pain and suffering!
Does that even make sense? Sorry, I get a little upset sometimes.
On topic – I think this is an absolute tragedy for this poor woman’s family, whatever happened – impossible to say what would have happened had she been in a hospital because you can’t go back in time and make it so. May have had the same outcome in hospital – we won’t ever know.
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Well said & so true. Why do people not understand this? A lack of education about the issue & personal expectations not being met I guess.
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I don’t know many people who week after week would be willing to work all hours, on call, nights, weekends, holidays. Doctors do this and often have to make many personal sacrifices to attend to their patients. I have great respect for anyone who chooses this vocation. Sure there may be some doctors you encounter who you feel do not understand you or your problem so seek a second opinion, speak up! Most doctors only want the best for their patients. I really liked your response. I have great faith in the medical profession, not blind faith, but trust and respect.
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I had a very complicated birth for my first child (2 days of labour and in the end a lot of intervention necessary) so I may be biased but:
If I have a serious infection, I do not just rely on my body’s ability to heal itself – I take penicillin. I take painkillers instead of trying to weather a massive migraine.
The whole idea of home birth scares me – besides my own birth story (I can now only have subsequent babies via caesarean), I know of several of my friends who if they had been placed in a home birth situation, would have had tragic outcomes for either mother or baby.
I just don’t see the point in trying to do things a certain way just because it is “natural” when there is a vast array of medical assistance available to me.
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This is so tragically sad for that family. Odd that you mention the Netherlands, Mia, Mr W’s mother gave birth to their third child in the Netherlands in the early 90s because they were living over there for Mr W’s fathers (Mr W senior) work at the time.
Mrs W insisted on a hospital birth and she was surrounded by nearly every doctor in the hospital who had not seen a birth since they were at medical school because most women give birth at home in the Netherlands! It was a very crowded experience from what I’ve been told!
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I have a friend who is a strong advocate for home birthing. I believe she gave birth to at least one of her children at home. She feels that hospitals are cold, clinical and stressful places for children to be born and that things are more likely to go wrong there than at home, where you can be at ease etc.
I personally quite like hospitals myself – feeling I am in the hands of professionals, not far from extra help or drugs, should they be needed, makes me at ease. This would be my choice. But I certainly respect hers and her beliefs, and hope the choice is not taken away from people as a result of this.
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I saw the photo first and thought brightly ‘I know that girl!’, a split second later the headline was clocked and oh my god, I can’t stop crying. I didn’t know Caroline that well but we were in the same social/party scene for a while. My memory is hazy but we had some kind of work/uni connection. I know we were a little more than acquaintances for a while (this is going back about 15 years) as I remember a few D&M’s with her. She was beautiful, smart and so poised and elegant. That’s what I remember. I’m so, so sad.
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So this is off-topic (and perhaps not very appropriate at all) but I just wanted to say I am loving your Milly Molly Mandy userpic.
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PErsonally I don’t see why Obstetricians and midwives can’t work together to make home birthing, or even birth centres, a lot more accessible and safe for women who choose to use them.
There is no doubt about it, birthing, though natural, is not a safe thing. Mothers and babies do get damaged through the process a lot. And our high standard of medical care does prevent a lot of it. However, babies and mothers still do die in hospital too.
I think one part of the problem is there seems to be a need to blame when something goes wrong. And often Obstetricians end up with a lot of unnecessary lawsuits hanging over their heads. (yes I understand that there appropriate cases, but many stem from pure grief and the need to blame when there just isn’t anyone to blame). So I’m sure they need to keep as much of a control on the situation as they can to minimise this as well as minimsie risks to mother and baby.
Personally I would have loved to do a birth centre birth. But the facilities are few and far between so I ended up doing the usual hospital thing. That ended up being the best option for me as complications meant that without hospital emergency facilities I would have likely died, as would my child. Both births. But I really despised the whole clinical sense of the hospital. Surely there is a happy medium.
I think to make this a viable option
1. People need to begin to understand and accept that birthing comes with risks wherever you do it. And having the perfect birht and the perfect baby, is often a fantasy. Expectations need to be broadened.
2. Obstetricians and midwives need to start working together instead of bashing heads to come up with a solution that will better fulfill the wishes of the mothers.
3. The government will need to provide more funding for any such thing to happen so enough of, and the right, supports will be in place.
It’s a tragedy what has happened. But we don’t hear about mothers who die in hopistal nearly as much as we should (die from childbirth rather than incompetence). I just hope it doesn’t come out that something preventable occurred with this death, as it will likely put back women’s rights, and childbirth issues many year.
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There is an Australian written book called the birth wars about this by thing. Unfortunately relationships between midwives and obstetricians are somewhat soured by the history between them. In an ideal world we would work together, with midwives having care of the low risk women and obstetricians care of the higher risk women, but there is resistance to that. In some places that is already happening and the midwives running those practices within the hospital system in our local hospital are swamped. I think you’ll find any decent obstetrician will respect the skill of the midwives and will be treated with the same level of respect by the midwives in return.
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Very, very sad.
Even best prepared plans often fail at childbirth. Such is the nature of childbirth.
I had both my children at the local hospital. And both times unforeseen things happened and I was forced to have emergency C section. If I would have gone the home birth way… I might not be here to see my children grow.
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what a heartbreaking story.
i myself am not a fan of home birthing for these exact reasons. i think it is very very important that these types of stories be made public, along with the positive ones, so women can make a properly informed decision when it comes to how they want to birth.
my own daughter was born in the hospital. a straight forward labour right until the end when she got stuck. i was lucky to have a midwife and Ob on hand to help get her out because i would not have been able to birth her myself. had i been at home my darling girl would quite possibly have been lost before medical help could have arrived. following that, there were all kinds of issues delivering the placenta. i am due to have my second child in around 10 weeks – and you can bet i will be at the hospital to have him.
that said, i do know women who have had successful home births (one totally unplanned whos labour progressed so fast that the baby was born before the ambulance arrived!) and they really enjoyed them – as much as one can enjoy childbirth!
for me though – its just too much of a gamble
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Personally, after my birth experience, if I had not been in hospital I fear I’d not have my son with me today. Though my best friend had her baby at home in November (planned) and while I was EXTREMELY nervous and tried to talk her out of it, it all went so well.
I’d never contemplate it, not even for a second, but understand people each have their own views. I only hope that this story makes those people who do wish to birth at home even more aware of what is possibly at stake.
Its a tragic story and I send my condolences to the family.
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All 3 of mine were birth centre births. Superb treatment from the midwives. My last one was my complicated one too – cord around her neck twice, I swelled my cervix by pushing too early, she had to be resuscitated – but it was all handled so professionally there was no panic or fear at the time.
I’d never judge another woman’s choice. This is just so desperately sad.
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This is tragic no matter how you look at it. Two babies without a mother and a husband without his wife. We certainly should not judge.
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Thank you for your considerate response and thought for the family.
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What a sad story. Sometimes the truly unexpected happens and there is nothing that can be done. Tragic. I hope the facts will come to light.
Personally I support home births with experienced, qualified midwives in attendance. But as you mentioned in the article, Australia is not set up for it. With the high cesarian rates and medical intervention and the hospital beds in high demand, something’s gotta give.
I am now concerned that when answering the question – how can we prevent this in the future, the answer may be – by banning home births all together. I would prefer that we could have a system that integrates home/birthing centres/hospital and that becomes the answer.
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When you think about it, Australia isn’t really geographically set up for home births. The Netherlands and the UK are dense countries. If there’s an emergency, getting to a hospital is easier. Here, not so much. I live in Canberra, which only has two hospitals equipped to deal with emergencies. That 20 or 30 minute transit time could literally be a killer. And that’s a big, well resourced regional city with good roads and minimal traffic.
I support midwife attended home births as well, but with contingencies in place to get to a hospital at the first sign of trouble, not for first babies and only for low risk mothers.
It’s really awful, 9 times out of 10 everything is fine (look at all the accidental home births – women in cars or at home who don’t make it to hospital and baby is delivered by dad with help from 000 and everyone is fine), but that one case where it isn’t is a tragedy.
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I am a Canberra girl too! All I ever hear is how full Woden is, and they don’t have beds. my SIL who was in labour at 28 weeks (!) almost got turned away because they were so full. That’s not a healthy situation either!
I think its a interesting arguement. Encouraging homebirths will enable midwives to become more experienced with homebirths, creating a safer environment and so on. Same deal with the opposite.
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Birth centres seem to me a healthy medium – there’s one attached to Woden hospital – midwife led care with the safety net of doctors on duty.
I think the point about the more they deliver, the better midwives get at managing them is good too.
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Most hospital births are midwife led anyway though. My sister’s a hospital midwife, and they do the births themselves, unless they need help from the doctors.
Having a baby in a hospital doesn’t mean that you’re strapped into stirrups, drugged up and told to push by a man in a gown and mask.
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I didn’t know the difference to be honest, but to me a midwife led hospital birth seems pretty sensible.
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It wasn’t so long ago that it was though… say, in the 1970s
That’s pretty much exactly what happened to my mother and aunts. The midwife led care we are getting more of now is fairly new. 15 years ago I participated in a study to determine its viability at the Royal Women’s in Melbourne. 
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Interesting you should say they don’t use stirrups any more. I was surprised to find this: an article from SMH 2008 in which a woman describes the archaic practise occurring here in oz. I hope the link works :-\
http://newsstore.theage.com.au/apps/viewDocument.ac?page=1&sy=age&kw=hospital+birth&pb=all_ffx&dt=enterRange&dr=1month&sd=1%2F1%2F2008&ed=31%2F12%2F2008&so=relevance&sf=text&sf=headline&rc=200&rm=200&sp=adv&sc=asia+or+australia+or+boss+or+comment+opinion+or+editors+note+or+insight+or+perspective+or+supplement+or+news+or+features&clsPage=1&docID=SMH0804177H6B47B1TEE
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Woden is full because Calvary doesn’t have the best reputation, and being Catholic won’t, for example, perform abortions, which puts people off as well (it certainly makes me question their commitment to women’s health). So if private care at John James isn’t an option, to Woden you go. I did hear that there is a women’s and children’s hospital being built, not sure when that will be though.
ETA: John James is a Catholic hospital too.
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I’ve never heard that Calvary has a bad reputation but if you believe this to be true then don’t go to John James as it’s run by Calvary also. Sure they don’t perform some procedures but many hospitals have procedures that they are not set up for. Just as a Catholic hospital may not perform some based on their beliefs – I don’t think this means they are not committed to women’s health.
I have also heard about the Women’s and Children’s hospital and that it may be based in Gungahlin? possibly due to the availability of land.
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The woman’s and children’s hospital is being built at the Canberra hospital! The Canberra hospital also has one of the best neonatal units in act/snsw
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The placenta injection is carried by midwives at homebirths too.
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I’ve been at several home births as a support person, there was no injection for the placenta – like most things in a home birth, it’s up to the birthing woman whether they want it or not.
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Like most things in a hospital birth, too – it’s up to the mother if they want it or not.
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In reality I don’t think that’s true. I don’t recall being asked, or even told, before my episiotomy (sp?). And that was only 7 years ago, we’re not talking the 50′s or something. They also didn’t ask before whipping out the forceps. I remember being told, certainly not asked. In fact the whole birth from start to finish felt completely out of my control.
Sure they let you choose whether you want the lights dimmed or other minor things like that but that’s about it in my experience.
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That’s factually untrue, in too many instances women I know were not even told they had the option, they were just given the jab (among other things). You must have been in an awesome hospital!
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It isn’t untrue, it’s not what others say was their experience. Anecdotes don’t trump facts Emma.
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Anecdotes can be factual, and when they are they trump generalisations. I only have to know one truthful person who was not asked permission before a medical procedure to know that it is true that permission is not asked 100% of the time. That is, it is *not* always “up to the mother if they want it or not”.
I know two people: I know me and I know my friend whom I accompanied. Our anecdotes have limited power: They can make it untrue that a generalisation is true all the time, but they cannot prove that a generalisation does not happen most of the time. For that you need good data, and you might agree with me that there is a dearth of that on this forum.
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I was at RPA. I don’t think it helps anyone (except the anti hospital lobby) to say that choice gets taken away from you at hospital, when it’s not true.
Like said in my account of my daughter’s birth – when they confirmed that she was breech and in distress, I said “Oh, OK, Caesar then?” to which the SURGEON replied “It’s what we’d suggest, unless you’re really keen on a vaginal delivery”.
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“say that choice gets taken away from you at hospital, when it’s not true.”
Again with the generalising from yours and others experience?
From a 2004 article on negative birth experiences in Birth: “Satisfaction with the information about labor progress, an opportunity to participate in decisions made during labor, and a supportive midwife and doctor also reduced a woman’s risk of having a negative experience.” Of course this is from Sweden, so I tried to look for studies done in Australia but couldn’t in the time I gave myself. I did note, however, that the Australian Journal ANZCOG likes to refer to Swedish studies about maternal experience of labour. So it may be the best I can do for now…
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But aren’t you doing the same thing, Emma?
I went to prenatal classes where we had everything explained to us, we could ask questions. We were told what our rights were. Why is it so hard for you to handle that this is what actually happens? My sister is a midwife and she teaches the pre-natal classes at her hospital. It’s pretty standard to go to them, isn’t it? I don’t think I’m in a minority for attending them and paying attention.
Everyone was encouraged to come up with birth plans, but to be flexible.
Just because some people feel hard done by doesn’t mean that everyone is or that those who feel hard done by actually were.
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What a tragic story – that poor family…
Living in the Byron Bay area, I actually felt immense pressure to go to a birthing centre, have a home birth or at least do it all naturally… it’s what all the true earth mothers were doing….
I remember going to an alternative prenatal class and being told ‘if you just believe in yourself, truly believe, you can do it on your own’….
Well, I believed… I believed and believed… but there were complications, and thankfully I chose to go to a hospital where they had the staff and facilities to deal with those complications… if I didn’t make that choice my baby probably wouldn’t have made it….
Safety first…
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I would like to send my condolences to Carolines husband, girls and family. I have a friend who has had a beautiful home delivery and friends who have had hospital deliveries. It is such a personal choice. These days are going to be filled with questions and accusations. The fact is people need to make their own choices after being fully educated. I feel sure Caroline would not want to have her circumstances (as extreme as they are) being the judgement that puts pressure on the choice of home v hospital.
I had 2 c-section hospital delivery both going very wrong, it is the nature of child birth there are risks involved, which is why all the information needs to be provided.
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I have experienced first hand how quickly things can go wrong while giving birth. I was an otherwise healthy 26 year old women when I gave birth to my son. After I birthed the placenta I had started to haemorrhage and lost 2 litres of blood in less than a minute. Luckily I was surrounded by doctors and about 5 midwives who managed to stop the bleeding. I often look at my son playing and think how lucky I am to be here. When pregnant all mothers hope that they will be blessed with a healthy baby but I know I personally never contemplated something happening to me. I am not against home birthing as such, but with birth centres in hospitals these days where you can have a natural birth with little or no intervention unless it is needed, I just don’t understand why someone would chose to take the risk.
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I had almost the exact same experience. The loss of blood also meant I was on a drip for almost two days after the birth.
One thing I wonder, though, is that whether the intervention itself was a factor in causing the blood loss (my labour was artificallly sped up since it hadn’t progressed in nearly 24 hours.)
Either way, noone knows what will happen, and I certainly prefer to be inside a hospital in that situation than 30mins or so away from it!
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I had my son in 1995. Pregnancy all good…but overdue by 2 weeks lead to induction (gel on my cervix) on a Friday. This started contractions roughly 20 mins apart. All weekend. By Monday I was admitted to hospital to be induced via a drip. At some point my son turned the wrong way and his head jammed in my pelvis. Very painful indeed. He got very stressed and my blood pressure plummeted. I was taken off the drip and the machines that go ‘blip’ were added all over my belly. An emergency cesarean was ordered. I waited (trying to remain as calm as possible) with a lovely sister (nurse) for hours with the bed tipped down to keep blood to my brain and the nurse taking my blood pressure every 20 mins. My son was born on Tuesday lunch time. The placenta wasn’t removed properly and I had a ‘gusher’ the next day which frightened the hell out of me.
Not because of the trauma of my sons birth, but because I felt that the induction was ahead of when he was ready and he turned because of the false contractions (reasoning all in my head of course) I chose to have a home birth. I found a midwife who would keep a very close eye on me and could order scans to ensure the viability of the placenta if the pregnancy progressed beyond my due date.
I went into natural labour roughly in line with the due date. We had a pool all set up in our lounge room. Problem 1) Not enough hot water in the tank to make the pool temp comfortable. I needed to go to the toilet at some point and felt my baby’s head, the midwife was there as were my husband and a good friend to support me. My husband and friend held me in a semi-standing position and my midwife cradled my baby as she emerged. All beautiful 10 pounds of her. Not one scratch or tear. A much better experience than my previous one. And boy was I proud of my body!
After cleaning up and as I lay with my daughter at my breast in my home surrounded by love….(Problem 2) my body started transitional contractions again! Oh the pain. In the car straight to hospital I was incoherent. Morphine drip… settled down after some time and back home again. No idea why my body did that and neither did the Drs or midwife. I started getting stomach pain after a couple of weeks and back to the Dr. A scan was ordered and a blood clot was found in my pelvis. In surgery later they cut into my vagina wall and sucked out a clot 500ml big (roughly the size of a baby’s head). A drain was stitched in. Nice. Not. Apparently the midwife did such a good job it’s normal for some little tears and internal bleeds (from the pressure of baby’s head emerging) will flow out naturally. My body thought it was a baby’s head and THAT’s why I went into transition labour again.
Next pregnancy…
I now had faith in my body and felt capable of ‘reading’ it. In hospital birthing room. A little pethidine in later stages as I couldn’t lay down or stop moving. Felt need to go to toilet (uh oh) and again felt bubs head. Called the midwife and she said no I just checked your dilation, you’ve go a way to go yet. I insisted she look and she said ‘you’re baby’s here’! Really?! Beautiful girl again.
So as you say Mia, the best laid plans etc…
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What a very sad day for this family. I agree with the sentiment that please let us not judge this woman for her choices but respect that we all have the right to decide. I to have had a home birth with a midwife present and found it to be a wonderful experience. My second child was delivered by a Cesarean so I have experienced both sides of this discussion. I think the biggest mistake we make as women is to be so critical of each other and judge the decisions that others make. It is true this may have been avoided if she was in hospital but when I delivered my second child a woman in the birthing room next to me died from complications and she was is a hospital with all the medical attention right on hand. Let us all send our prayers to these children who are now without a mother and for a husband grieving for his wife.
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That’s so sad! What a tragic outcome, her poor babies and husband!
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I’d like to see any statistic that suggests that a higher percentage of women die during home births than hospital births.
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I don’t think it can be measured as simply as that. Women who have babies in hospital include high risk pregnancies, of course more of them die.
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And people that die in hospitals includes those who’ve been transferred from home because they’re having trouble.
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Dear Kris2040, Please, get yourself some knowledge about how these statistics are collected and analysed before you pitch in. The data collected by the government is also sorted by planned place of birth, not actual place of birth. So if a transferred baby dies in hospital, it comes under home births. I’ve seen comment after comment from you that screams “Based on what I think probably happens!” You’ve been factually incorrect about several hospital procedures so far too. In fact if I weren’t so desperate to believe you meant well I’d think you were a troll :-\
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What hospital procedures have I been factually incorrect about?
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I actually went through and checked and it was mostly the idea that women could control what happened to them in hospital that got up my nose :-\ I’m glad you had a good hospital experience, but it is simply true that women can be horribly bullied and rushed in hospital settings. Studies in the late 90s and early 2000 were looking at precisely this problem. I participated in one of them and read more (too long ago for refs, sorry). I’ve also witnessed and experienced quite horrid medical staff. To blithely state that the hospital experience is what you make it is… well, it sounds sanctimonious and cruel to the ears of someone who has not had your good experience…. do you see what I mean?
But I do apologise for losing my temper above – it was uncalled for
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Thanks for the apology. I gave birth last year, and it definitely wasn’t my experience, and none of my friends have claimed they’ve been bullied or similar either. I don’t think you can deny that the attitude of the mother and their support people is crucial though.
ETA: I note you said you’ve witnessed and experienced bad hospital staff. Do you not think that clouds what you read and how you read it?
I stand by what I have said elsewhere in this post that the NCB movement are bullies as well who use guilt and misinformation to make women feel bad about things they have no need to feel bad about, and sometimes to think that bad things have happened when they were actually necessary.
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Again I’m replying above your comment because there is no reply button on your comment. What is it with this website???
Anyway, I am high functioning Aspergers which means that it’s possible that my experience clouded your words but unlikely, one of the traits I possess is to take things quite literally as read and put them through a true/untrue filter (drives my husband to distraction). Also, apart from the one altercation my births were actually awesome, I just haven’t used this forum as a platform for their stories. Thought it would be pretty insensitive actually.
I agree that the attitude of both mother and support people is crucial, however, I would emphasise that when a woman is in labour she is vulnerable and that the attitude of the support staff matters much more.
I also agree that the natural birth movement can have the potential to make mothers who did not have a natural birth feel attacked and inadequate and I don’t like this either (warrior for informed autonomy remember). But I think part of this stems from the fact that for some people, in order to sympathise with people who want to try to birth naturally or at home, it feels like they then have to admit that their choice was wrong. This is patently untrue of course but I bet that’s how it feels to some people, hence the feeling of being attacked
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The reply button feature exists to stop comment threads continuing ad infinitum. It’s a functionality issue. If they continue forever, Emma, then no one can read them. Which doesn’t help you, or us!
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This was in the paper around the time Janet Fraser’s baby died:
[link: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/four-dead-in-home-birthing-including-joyous-birth-advocate/story-e6freuy9-1225697745818 ]
Westmead Hospital
director of women’s health Dr Andrew Pesce said he was aware of at
least four deaths and another four homebirth babies who sustained
possible brain damage since last July. Dr Pesce said the tragedies showed it was time to reform maternity
services to attract back women who have become refugees from the
hospital system.
Dr Pesce said it was time the increased risks of home birth were acknowledged and addressed. “There are one or two extra deaths per 1000 deliveries and I wish people would acknowledge that,” Dr Pesce said. “It’s often presented as if there are no downsides to a home birth only up sides.”
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And why do you think the employee of a hospital might say that?
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Honestly, why? What motivation does he have? Do you really think we are worried that all women will decide to give birth at home and then the hospitals will be empty and we’ll all be out of a job? I don’t think so! Hospitals are overcrowded and overworked – no-one is trying to drum up business!!
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It’s not about drumming up business, it’s easy to see hospitals are over-crowded, hence my complete confusion HB’s aren’t better supported to relieve some of the pressure …
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Why do you think they’ve said it, Noelle?
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It is terribly sad to hear. I was too fearful to have my bub at home, but that is not to say mums dont die giving birth in hospital. While I was recovering from my baby’s birth, a mum being induced two rooms down from me died. The baby survived, but it was a very traumatic thing. I just feel for the people who have lost their mum and wife.
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What a terrible tragedy. While I’m not vehemently against homebirth (each to their own) you can’t help but wonder what might have been. My son was born in a hospital and I believe that was the best way for our family.
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All sympathies to the family.
My mother had four children, two born at home and two started as home births and complications led her to have a birth in hospital.
There are other countries in the world where women give birth at home safely, and I think it is a woman’s right. All education and assistance should be provided and there should always be a back up plan, but a woman should have the right to choose.
The complications which result from doctor/medical intervention are, in my opinion, are far too high.
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One thing for anyone advocating a ban on homebirths to remember: if you attempt to outlaw homebirth, you will just drive people underground. This is a FAR more dangerous situation for women to be in.
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I agree completely.
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Drive people undergound? Why does it mean so much to them? I mean that respectfully, – if people became less likely to seek help, then it would be a far more dangerous option, so why would you choose it. What is it about home births that makes people feel so strongly about them?
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There is a lot of fear of unnecessary medical interventions, which can cause problems. There is a lot of dislike of the close minded, authoritarian approach of many obstetricians, as well as the perception that doctors prefer inducement and scheduled caesarians for both scheduling reasons, as well as reducing risk of litigation. All this without respect to the enormous difficulties c-sections place on the first few weeks of babyhood, with mother recovering from major surgery while trying to establish breastfeeding etc.
There is also a lot of knowledge that throughout history, and in other advanced societies even now, home/natural/midwife supervised birth is normal, and considered as safe as hospital birth. Plus the feeling of empowerment that comes from being in your own “safe space” rather than in clinical setting at mercy of the system.
For me though, I liked being in a birth centre with swing doors leading to main hospital in case of emergency
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I don’t get the being scared (of anything) about hospitals and making the choice to do a very dangerous thing without the safety of the hospital. Strange mindset.
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Some ppl have a phobia of hospitals. Some have had traumatic births due to mistreatment
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But why would you then put yourself at risk even further by getting pregnant again and then shunning care? Assuming you’ve had interventions and that’s why your hospital birth was traumatic, why would you endanger yourself and your next baby like that? That’s what I don’t understand.
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For me with my second baby my husband had to force me into the car to get me into hospital on time. I had a horrible experience with my first baby which I 100% blame on the hospital. I didn’t want to go back, I felt safer at home. I didn’t want to be examined or hooked up to machines or to be encouraged to take drugs I didn’t want or any of the other things that happened to me the first time. In the end I only just made it to the hospital and there was no time for any kind of intervention and the baby and I were perfectly fine.
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very true. and, as we are reading here – birth can be very unpredictable. not all home births are planned, some just happen too darn quickly to get anywhere else.
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I don’t have kids yet but I’d love to know this: if you have the opportunity to give birth in a birth centre – which is just like home but with medical support RIGHT THERE, why would you choose home instead?
Isn’t it the perfect compromise?
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Not really, birth centres still have to follow hospital procedures, eg injection for placenta etc.
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Actually, that’s not always true. Even in the big tertiary women’s hospital in Perth, the woman can sign a consent form to refuse the injection for the 3rd stage of labour (placenta) – obviously the risks of such a decision need to be explained, but every woman has the right to choose what they will put into their body. So in WA, you can certainly choose not to have the injection and I have seen this happen. In the birth centres, there is certainly a higher rate of women who do refuse these interventions – and even refuse vaccinations at birth, antibiotics, etc – as long as they are informed of all the risks and sign a consent form, they can choose.
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I’ve been reading the WA Reports from the Perinatal and Infant Mortality Committee. They’re really sane unemotional and detailed (read “refreshing”). We don’t seem to have the same system of signing consent forms in Vic, at least not that I’ve heard of or experienced, different hospitals must have different policies. We probably should have informed consent forms as a matter of government policy though.
While acknowledging that WA still has its own problems, women posting on this forum from WA are sounding like fully informed participants in their hospital experience which I think is fantastic. Vic could learn something from WA.
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You can give birth in the labour ward and not have any interventions as well. Just because you’re in a hospital doesn’t mean you don’t have a say in what you do.
My loose birth plan was to use the baths in the labour ward delivery suites. I didn’t need to go to a separate birth centre for that option. Just because the hospital has the drugs on hand doesn’t mean you don’t have the option to say no to them if you want to.
During prenatal classes I couldn’t really understand the difference between the hospital birth centre and the labour ward. I said to our midwife educator “Um, it seems to me that the only difference really is that the birth centre has double beds to have your labour on if you like, but you can do all the “natural” childbirth stuff in either the labour ward or the birth centre, right?” Yep.
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I had my son in the regular labour ward and hated the experience. The midwife all but forced me to have an epidural. I still don’t know why. I was induced and it became very painful very quickly. I was told “you’ll need an epidural”. No offer of gas or anything else.
I had my second baby at a different hospital, no drugs of any kind and I was perfectly fine. I think how your labor goes to a very great extent depends on where you are and the attitude of the midwife you get.
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And your attitude as well!
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You can refuse anything really. Most people don’t and wouldn’t if it was an emergency, but you always have that right. I’ve seen a few refuse syntocinon in thhe third stage for example. Within reason most health care providers Will negotiate.
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I think it all depends on the hospital/birth centre. I had my second daughter in a hospital here in Australia, but they were very non-intervention–no stretch and sweeps, didn;t even check me when it was time to push. The room was like a large well-appointed hotel room. The midwife was in the room offering some verbal guidance, but I did it all myself. It was entirely “natural.” I imagine if things started to go wrong, they would have intervened, and could have intervened because the medical technology was there.
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Have you ever tried to get into the birthing centre? There are extremely limited places, extremely limited criteria … there isn’t the support in Australia for choice. It isn’t about being a “selfish” mother to choose where to birth. We are being herded into a birthing world that suits people who aren’t mothers. Mothers give and sacrifice from the get-go
For the record, I birthed all 5 of my babies in a hospital. The first was such a freaking disaster at the hands of so-called medical help but I couldn’t appreciate that until I had real support. I am half in love with our OB who supported me, supported my choices and if it wasn’t for the insurance issues would have supported a HB. I won’t go into our long story, it’s not the place, but it’s only when a woman is supported and believed in that half the issues are removed.
That said, things DO go tragically, horrifically wrong as this heart-breaking story shows. For many reasons. This should NOT be about hospital vs HB . This, should, imo, be about supporting a family’s loss.
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There are very limited spaces in Birth Centers. Here in Brisbane they have a lottery system. Many women miss out.
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Its terribly sad for this family. It would be interesting to find out what killed her. I notice that this unfortunate death got headlines, while the maternal deaths in hospital, which still do happen in tiny numbers, don’t get any attention. Undoubtedly some homebirth complications or deaths have been caused by negligence, we don’t know if this one has yet.
Birthing and maternity is at the moment, a bit of a turf war, with midwives and obstetricians not seeing eye to eye. While I wouldn’t personally attend a homebirth as a midwife due to the distances in Australia, I support the use of birth centres and midwife led programs for identified low risk women. Our Caesar rate is way too high at over 30% and something needs to change.
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Sympathies to the family. I can’t understand why anyone would take the risk. The way my babies came into the world just didn’t matter that much to me. What mattered is that we were all safe and close to any help we might have needed.
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There is no “right” way to give birth. Every woman, baby, pregnancy & birth is different.
Women need more unbiased, non-directive, evidence-based information so that they can make an informed decision about what is best for them and their baby. In the mean time women should be more supportive and respectful of each other’s choices, and care providers (i.e., GPs, midwives, obstreticians) should continue to endevour to provide women-centred maternity care.
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Anon – with respect – I don’t want to get into a barney here but surely the ‘right’ way is the safest way? The right way is with the best health and survival outcome for mother and baby? And how can that NOT be in a hospital?
Genuine questions.
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Just to add a bit more spice to this discussion (i was born in the hospital, and plan to eventually do the same myself), there are so many horror stories about hospital births going wrong too.
I think the idea of there being ‘no right way’ is more about there being no flawless option. There is human error, even amongst the most experienced hospital staff. Obviously the odds are still stacked in favour of the ‘safe’ hospital, but i can see why some people are not as inclined to go there as others.
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Are you serious? Do you know about rates of intervention leading to complications?
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True. A c-section is a major surgery, for example.
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Sorry, I should have made that clearer. I meant there is no “right” way for every women to give birth – meaning I don’t think you can prescribe one type of birth for every women. What might be safest for one mother and baby might be different for another.
As you can see above different women have different preferences etc. If all women had access to balanced information about the true benefits and risks of each model of care we could all make more informed choices about which would be best for us and our babies.
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Surely going to the hospital and doing your labour how you want there is a safer birth option than going yourself at home and having to be transferred in an emergency?
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And they’re good questions, Bella. Some people argue that a Caesarean is safest. Certainly my friends husband felt this way and ‘strongly encouraged’ her to have a section with their second one. She did. I’m not sure she needed it. His view is that less can go wrong and that it’s the way to go. My view is that the female body is designed to push something the size of a large mango out of something the size of a ping pong ball and that’s probably the best way to go in most cases.
I can understand why a woman would want to stay at home. Pregnancy and childbirth are part of normal physiology. it’s not a state of illness. And yet things can go wrong. They don’t always go wrong.
I was born at home, albeit many moons ago. It was a planned home birth. Did my mother do the wrong thing? I don’t think so. She’d already had one baby in hospital and decided not to repeat the experience. That was a long time ago, mind you, and home births were quite common then. I’m not sure about the mortality stats.
I’ve enjoyed reading the responses of women who have had home births. As I stated earlier here, a friend of mine had 3 home births. She wanted to be at home. She didn’t want to be in a hospital with people poking and prodding her. She wanted to be in her own bedroom. She had excellent midwives and an incredibly supportive GP. No painkillers. Minimal fuss. She had great experiences each time.
I don’t know what’s best. It’s about making an informed choice and making sure that you have a good plan B, but then that goes for a lot of things, doesn’t it?
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Would it not be fair to say giving birth in a hospital is much safer than delivering at home. Seriously I think women should think of safety measures when giving birth. I had a healthy pregnancy but a horrendous birth with an emergency c section and excess blood loss. If I had been at home I too would have possibly died. Why take a risk. I seriously don’t get it.
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Very sad outcome. That poor family. I just dont understand why anyone would take that kind of risk at home. Not many mothers giving birth have uncomplicated deliveries. How tragic.to take that risk and loose in the end. I am very sad hearing this story.
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But one of the big reasons not many women have uncomplicated births is because of the interventions in hospitals – which is also a risk you’re taking if you birth in a hospital. The evidence largely shows that for low-risk women giving birth at home is just as safe as giving birth in a hospital, and you’re much less likely to have interventions, or end up with a c-section (which is major abdominal surgery) – so you’re taking risks in hospital as well. Which risks to take should be up to the individual – and she should have all the information she needs to make an *informed* choice.
We don’t force people to have medical procedures they don’t want in any other area of life – and nor should we force them on women, even if we don’t agree with their choices.
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You know what, my sister had a c section when her baby got stuck In
her pelvis and in a matter of minutes after much labour was whisked away to a c section to save that baby. Had she been at home that baby would have died as they had to get bubs out immediately . I ask you , why take a risk? .
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I’d put money on her having been lying down on a hospital bed when baby got stuck, right?
At home, she’d have been more likely to be in an upright position – and your pelvis is up to 30% larger when upright. Maybe bubs wouldn’t have got stuck.
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& you are a doctor ? I highly doubt it
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It’s called reading Natasha. Google pelvic outlet capacity in lithotomy position. When you birth on your back, you are a) working against gravity so it will make it harder and longer to push the baby out b) you then have to push the baby over the coccyx bone because c) your coccyx is now flat pressed against the bed, thus reducing your pelvic outlet by approximately 30%
My first child was an induced hospital birth where I received every intervention their policy demanded. And what happened? I was on my back and he got stuck. My next birth? At home on all fours and my child shot out of me. What was the difference? No intervention, no induction, and not on my back.
You don’t need to be a doctor to research the procedures, protocols and evidence based practice! You just have to have the need to put yourself first and become informed!
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But you can do all fours or any other position you want in hospital as well, Anon. And that includes in the wards. We were taught how to use the birthing chair in our prenatal class.
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As you said Mia, I do think we need to tread carefully when commenting as we don’t know the facts and exact cause of death, so please let’s not sensationalise this- there will be enough of that out there anyway. Personally, my brother was born at home 26 years ago, mum loved it. My two daughters were born in family birth centres. I got to do the drug free labors with no intervention, but with the security of the hospital right there. This worked for me as my placenta needed to be manually removed- worse pain than birth itself!!! I also bled a lot. But let’s not go down the path of saying how bad home birth must be….
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The reality is nobody knows how their birth will go and I personally think it doesn’t matter how your child is born as long as its healthy and loved.I felt safe giving birth in hospital with my dr who had 20 years experience and surronuded by midwives and my family. I had atext book pregnancy and great start to labour. My pelvis, I found out later is inverted and the dr had to get my son out quick as he was stuck. I bled and would have died if at home…