.
Home birth campaigner and mother Caroline Lovell has tragically passed away during the birth of her second child.
She was 36.
Caroline long campaigned for midwives present at home births to have funding and indemnity and made a submission to the Federal Government Inquiry into Health Legislation Amendment (Midwives and Nurse Practitioners) Bill 2009, to that effect.
News.com.au reported:
A mother who died while giving birth to her daughter at her Melbourne home was a strong advocate for home-births, declaring in a government submission that she would be have no choice but to have an unassisted birth at home if midwives were not legally protected.
Online tributes have been pouring in for Caroline Lovell, who died after giving birth to her second daughter Zahra at her home in Watsonia on Monday last week.
The 36-year-old was rushed to The Austin Hospital in cardiac arrest at 10.30am, but died in hospital the following day, a report in this morning’s Herald Sun revealed. A private midwife is believed to have been assisting her during the home-birth.
“A spokeswoman for Midwives in Private Practice said it was the first time she has heard of a maternal death following a home birth in her 15 years’ experience working as a midwife.
“It’s very very rare and it’s just impossible to imagine what might have happened,” she said.
Health Services Commissioner Beth Wilson said she had long held concerns about home births when medical back up may not be immediately available.
“I’m very sad to hear about this and I know the coroner will conduct a full and thorough investigation.”
An Ambulance Victoria spokeswoman confirmed intensive care paramedics were called to the home in Melbourne’s north at approximately 10.30am. She said the woman was critically ill when they arrived. The Age reported the Ms Lovell was in cardiac arrest.
The Coroner will investigate the death.
OK, let’s play this one carefully. We do not know what happened during Caroline Lovell’s homebirth. There are now two little girls without a mother and a man left without his wife to raise his daughters alone. A tragedy under any circumstances.
Please can we keep the comments respectful of these facts. We considered not running this story today for those reasons. Just like when freebirthing advocate Janet Fraser’s baby died during her homebirth (freebirthers opt to give birth at home without any medical support, even from midwives – Caroline Lovell was NOT freebirthing and was attended by two midwives).
Is covering these stories insensitive? Cruel? Unecessary? Or is it vital that we are open and honest about how things can go wrong very quickly during birth and that the consequences can be fatal and tragic?
On balance, we have decided to carefully and respectfully cover this story. Because while the grief of those affected by the death or injury of a baby or mother during a homebirth must be unimaginable – just like the grief when either of those things happen in a hospital and yes, they do happen – there are pregnant women making decisions about how they give birth every day and they need to be aware of the full picture.
When I went to look for information on the death of Janet Fraser’s baby during her freebirth, I found that all the threads on the freebirthing and homebirth forums that dealt with bad outcomes (including the death or injury of the baby or mother) were locked and not visible to the public who were only able to read the happy health birth stories.
Such censoring of the full picture from those who are considering where to give birth is not only disengenuous but – in my opinion – dangerous.
As Herald Sun columnist Susie O’Brian wrote today:
Around 700 women across Australia give birth at home and in my opinion that’s 700 too many. The problem is that fit, healthy women can still have traumatic, problematic births where things go wrong, and the time it takes to get to an emergency ward can be the difference between life and death.
Yes, women and babies do die in hospitals too, but there are less risks when you have the best medical attention on hand. Research shows that home births are more risky, particularly for the babies, and I don’t know why anyone would take the chance.
Up to half of all first-time mothers attempting a home birth have to be transferred to hospital due to complications, according to Dr Ted Weaver, president of the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.
I appreciate many women may want a natural, low-intervention birth.
But this can be achieved in birthing centres attached to hospitals.
Home births should no longer be an option.
According to the latest major study from the US and Europe, which looked at 342,056 planned home births and 207,551 planned hospital births, planned home births have almost three times the risk of neonatal deaths.
I make no apology for being a hospital girl myself. Even though I have straightforward, uncomplicated births, during my third birth, I hemorrhaged and needed urgent medical attention. It was unexpected but then, there’s very little about giving birth that isn’t unexpected.
Which is why the idea of being away from immediate medical support is one I would personally never contemplate. Not for a moment.
Yes, I know that in many countries such as the Netherlands and even the UK, many women give birth at home. But the Australian medical system is not set up for that. It’s different here.
Regardless, our thoughts and sympathy go out to Caroline Lovell’s family and those of anyone who has been lost during childbirth.
What has been your experience of home or hospital birth? If you plan to have children one day, how would you like to give birth?
Comments
754 Comments so far
Birth is a normal process. Most complications women experience are due to medical intervention in the first place. Until health systems change policies to comply with best practice principles from new research and not their 20yr old research then there is going to continue to be medical intervention and as a result, more people opting for homebirth due to the disparity between evidence and policy.
loading...
I think its unfair to say most complications women experience are due to medical intervention. Birth prior to the 1900′s was associated with a much higher rate of maternal and neonatal mortality than today. Whilst medical intervention may cause some complications, it also avoids/prevents others.
loading...
Deaths during birth prior to 1900 were mostly due to poor hygiene and the nurse that suggested this and placed towels and a bowl of warm water at the foot of the bed for the Dr, was shunned by colleagues!
loading...
Pingback: Advocacy For Planned Home Birth Not In Patients Best Interest - Tips Health Article
The tone of this story annoys me.
We’ve just had a homebirth, it went smoothly enough through to a calm and healthy delivery, but there were complications after the placenta was delivered (haemorrage). We knew this was among the risks, we weighed the odds against the proximity of a superb hospital. Medical assistance was prompt and wonderful when needed.
Granted this is in the UK, and there are parts of even the UK where medical assistance is sufficiently far away that one would certainly think twice, but, really, childbirth isn’t improved by treating it as a medical emergency from the outset.
Yes, if my partner had also a heart attack while giving birth, she would likely have died “because she wasn’t in the hospital”. Most likely she’d have died if she was in hospital, too, a surprising number of heart attack victims do. My father died of a heart attack, as it happens – he had the attack while driving home from attending my mother in maternity hospital, having been turfed out because of their strict visiting hours, but actually died under close medical supervision in another hospital a day or two later. A postman once died of a heart attack at my address trying to deliver a parcel while I was out.
Shit happens, and people who have heart attacks often don’t make it.
Interestingly, we didn’t have any of this kind of judgemental nonsense from the hospital staff about homebirth, despite our emergency. Indeed, they have posters up in their (excellent) maternity unit which list “give birth at home in relaxed surroundings” among their recommendations for an uncomplicated birth. Their birthing suites are a very good compromise for people who don’t live within five minutes, and/or have reasons to feel that they may be more than usually at risk of complications. The birthing suites, hospital, and midwife-attended home birth are all available free on the NHS.
I’m no Luddite – I thoroughly appreciate advances in medicine and the fantastically expert help which is available to people in trouble. Nothing is without some kind of risk, though, and that goes equally for needlessly medicalised births.
The comment below which asserts that homebirth is “selfish”, benefits the mother and harms the baby is, well, interesting, and I think nonsense. There’s an awful lot of research which suggests that a relaxed birth is best for both. Some will find being told what to do by doctors and/or drugged to the eyeballs relaxing, others won’t.
But it’s an emotive topic, and people are necessarily invested in their own choices, whatever beliefs they’re based on. I think that’s everyone’s right, and it’s also their right to try to persuade others, too, if they wish. People should solicit a diversity of opinions before making these kinds of choices, and make it their business to be as well informed as they can, but it would be unrealistic to suppose that such self-education weren’t highly likely to be conducted or interpreted selectively to reinforce someone’s existing preference.
loading...
Sadness does not start to describe when a baby or mother dies during birth .
It takes years to comprehend . I have witnessed it at home.
But also hospital .
Sometimes it to no ones fault.
Sometimes it is .
What needs to come into this conversation is skilled Midwives who know when to transfer , seperate their Ego and call it at the first sign. With a back up doc, with a hospital close.
I think it’s too soon to ask opions here. People are still attached to fear.
I would hate to see a young woman come on here and be feard out of her right to a home birth. With a licensed , dominate in your community Midwife. With years if experience and respect from her hospital and back up doc.
It’s a safe option if done right and for the right reasons .
loading...
Medical statistics in Australia clearly indicate that women and babies are twice as likely to die as a result of a c-section then due to a vaginal birth. It is a myth that just because a doctor is involved birth is safer.
loading...
That’s because women who get c-section are also more likely to have had problems during the pregnancy or delivery. The selection problem is also present with regards to people who choose home birth – they tend to have complication-free pregnancy, those who have complications would have been recommended to have hospital births. So when you read statistics that hospital births are more likely to have interventions, remember that as well.
While having a doctor is not a guarantee that a person will survive, it is not a myth to say that having a qualified doctor looking after you is safer, if it were a myth that doctor supervision help people survive illness/complications, there wouldn’t be a point to having qualified doctors in the first place.
The relevant question is this case is this: would she have survived if she was at the hospital? The fact isn’t out, but I believe her chances would have been better at a hospital.
loading...
Not necessarily true about c-sections being related to complications…my doctor wanted to give me a c- section because she had a dinner appointment and didn’t want to get stuck at the hospital. The c-section rate wouldnt be as high as it is if c-sections were ONLY being given to women who already had complications. My local hospitals both have c-sections rates of over 30 percent. I live in the US, but c-sections are out of control.
loading...
A woman I know died a couple of years ago from heart failure after a routine caesarean section here in Perth. She was in hospital at the time. Not only was this deemed unnewsworthy, but I also didn’t hear anyone calling for women to be denied the right to choose caesarean section…….
What happened to this woman is an absolute tragedy, and my heart goes out to her family who now must deal with their loss in addition to the blame and judgement of others. Safety in birth for mother or baby can never be guaranteed, even in hospital. In life not all tragedies can be averted. Sometimes we just need to accept that we cannot control everything, including birth.
If anything this story highlights the desirability of maximising safety for women who choose homebirth, although it may well be that nothing could have prevented the outcome in this case, perhaps even if the birth had occurred in hospital.
Women have every right to choose where they birth, as a basic human right. Systems should be in place to maximise the safety of women who choose to birth at home, just as they should for women who choose to birth in hospital
loading...
Some of the comments here really sadden me as they seem to come from people who may not work directly with maternity care.
If you look at any of the big governing bodies (RCOG, RCM, DOH etc) They all suggest risk to both ways of birthing. Research suggests homebirth are as safe as hospital births for low risk women. Both places of giving birth have their own risks. Women die in hospital too. Its unfortunate what has happened to Caroline. However even then we need to step back and asses the situation and only put forward the truth.
it does not matter what the majority of the people choose to do, sometimes the safest thing to do is not what every one does (a perfect e.g around the 40s-70 when young women were given contraceptive drugs which later on were directly linked to poor outcomes in neonates well being is something that the majority did and something that the government allowed but later realised) The USA has on of the highest maternal mortality rate and intervention rate because they distrust womens bodies to do what they are designed to.
Everyone who believes pregnancy is pathalogical is mistaken it is a normal physiological design that does function well left to its own devices. To say were mammals were not very good at being them, if a monkey can do it we can!!!!!
loading...
May I remind everyone that the reason for Caroline’s death has not yet been made public so whether birthing contributed to her death is not even known. And can the moderator please remove the photo as copyright belongs to me and you are in breach. Please email to discuss if you wish.
loading...
I think a little more compassion and respect is needed here – do we really need to be so judgemental of other women’s choices in birth? The reality is that women have reproductive rights and one of those rights is the right to choose where to give birth.
For those saying can you live with the guilt if something happened to your baby at a homebirth – well equally so could you live with the guilt if your baby was damaged at a hospital birth? – sadly it happens all the time. There are many cases where babies have died or been injured from a vacuum extraction. Would these babies have lived if they had been born at home? – most likely yes.
loading...
The question parents NEED to ask themselves when considering a home birth is whether you can live with the guilt if your baby (or you as the mother) is part of the very small percentage of deliveries that go wrong. Will you be able to live with the knowledge that you and/or your child has died, or is severely permanently disabled, simply because you wanted a nicer birth experience? If you can live with that, then by all means have a home birth — it is your decision.
But the reality is that things go wrong more often than we realise. We are lucky to live in a western country and we have access to modern medical care in emergencies. Minutes and even seconds matter during birth.
As a disclaimer, having seen what can go wrong at any delivery at a moments notice, I would choose to have my baby not only in a hospital, but in a hospital with a NICU sitting right beside the doors of the delivery suite. I wouldn’t even have my child in a regional hospital, but that’s another article altogether!
loading...
Would you be able to live with the guilt if you gave birth in the hospital and your child died or was permanently damaged because of hospital policies? It goes both ways. Birth can be tragic/dangerous, no matter where you birth. Pretending hospital births are safe and home births are not isn’t being honest about the facts that despite the care hospitals are supposed to give, for low risk births, giving birth at home is safer.
loading...
Hi Penny,
I’m sorry but that makes no sense. Home births are not ‘safer’ and any statistics showing that have been selectively manipulated.
How sad that there are women who distrust doctors and hospitals so much that they would opt to take the risk of going it alone…..
loading...
Youve seen the worst, that’s why, so your perspective is skewed. You would also know that level 2 nurseries are capable of incubating babies for a short time, while stabilizing them before transporting them to a level 3 nursery. A woman that has gone into extremely premature labour will also be transferred if possible before delivery to a teriary hospital.
I don’t know if you’ve had kids yet, but really your baby doesn’t need to be born right next to a NICU. Don’t let your fear dominate your actions.
loading...
as a midwife with 28years experience I opted along with all of my colleagues for 4 hospital births !Does anyone wonder why ?
loading...
This is why I stopped following MM awhile ago- just like those who preface their prejudice by saying, “I’m not racist but…” or “Not being rude but..”, MM says, “I respect your opinion but…” Drop the preamble and be straight about what you think!
Anyone considering HB would join the forums to read the locked threads. Some of the most beautiful HB stories I’ve read and heard have been of stillbirth babies. These sensitive topics are locked on non-HB forums too.
HB mums know the risks and have weighed them against those of hospital birth. Many have ‘survived’ the same complications that doctors ‘saved’ women from in hospital but it was so dignified and undramatic that it was absorbed into the normality of the overall positive experience.
Often the choice to HB is as much a choice NOT to go to hospital. Look at why and fix that then maybe everyone would choose the ‘safer’ option. Mother and baby’s complete (physical, mental and emotional) health and well-being are all important outcomes – not just that they come out of it alive – and until this is addressed, women will continue to HB.
The ‘irony’ angle is superfluous- given the minority, every woman who chooses HB is an ‘advocate’.
loading...
This is an interesting issue. I don’t have children but I plan to. When I do, I will deliver in a hospital and I will pay to have a private obstetrician (about $4000 here in New Zealand).
I don’t think home births are a good idea. All freedoms are (or should be) curtailed in relation tp the extent to which they affect others. I think the extent to which a woman’s freedom of choice to birth at home can risk her child’s life, I think that mean the choice should be limited where possible.
I know some people have amazing, straightforward natural birth and that is fantastic. But as others have mentioned, things can go wrong very fast, and time could be of the essence in mitigating medical risk to mother and baby.
I plan to engage a private obstetrician when I have a child because the quality of midwifery is New Zealand is variable, and it’s almost impossible to quantify who is good and who isn’t.
Some midwives are amazing – my sister had a wonderful one. However, there is no requirement for supervision after graduation, and this concerns me. A midwife could be fresh out of uni and delivering babies with no more experience back up. I am a lawyer and I worked with senior supervision for a good 3 years after graduation (after 5 years at uni and a further 3 months professional training). I don’t care how amazing the quality of the training is – there is no substitute for experience.
I think the focus on a natural birth as some sort of achievement is bizarre. I have achieved a lot in my life: being a mother will, I’m sure, be up there with anything else I’ve done, but I don’t care how it gets out of me. Getting it in there was natural too, but no one goives you a gold medal for that.
loading...
You have a 40-70% chance of having a Caesarean if you go private – and this is backed up by statistics. It’s interesting that healthy, educated and well-nourished women who go to a private Obstetrician are more likely to end up with surgical birth that their public sisters – this should warn us that something is seriously wrong with the way birth is conducted in hospitals. Here’s another fact – a woman who tries for a VBAC (Vaginal Birth After Caesarean) has got about a 25% chance of achieving that in hospital – it used to be 75-80%. At home it is 95% success rate. Could it be that the original Caesar was unnecessary? Could it be that hospitals are the worst places to try and have a normal birth? And in case you think it doesn’t matter how a baby is born – there are mountains of good research which supports normal undrugged birth, with unrestricted contact with the baby straight afterwards, as the gold standard for the future health and wellbeing of baby, mother and family. If you are afraid, you need to get properly educated – you should be a lot more afraid of the unnecessary interventions which have become a normal part of the hospital experience.
loading...
Please don’t tell me to “get educated” – I’m well aware of the risks associated with childbirth and I know how I would prefer to give birth.
I really don’t see what business it is of anyone’s how I or anyone else choose to give birth. I would never dream of giving birth at home, but equally I would never dream of telling someone to “get educated” about the risks involved – I assume as an adult and soon-to-be parent they would have considered them.
loading...
and Comadrona, I note you are a midwife. Attitudes like yours are the reason I will pay for a private obsterician.
loading...
Your choice of course, but it is uninformed. The problem is that many people think that more intervention in birth is better. Birth is not an illness, and interventions are well studied and proven to have significant side-effects. Women have a right to birth wherever they wish – it is a basic human right and should not be denied because of ignorant prejudice and health funding which is skewed towards the hospital system. Our health care system should be able to service homebirthing women as well as the others. BTW your slur on NZ midwifery is unfounded – many Australian midwives would love to be working in a system where midwives are primary care providers and women who have home births are considered another variety of normal and where support is there when needed. I personally know of several Oz midwives who have left home to work in NZ because of the better system – recognised worldwide, too!
loading...
I am a registered nurse and I have two children both born in maternity hospitals. I just wanted to point out that although home births have risks, giving birth in a hospital poses its own risks both for the mother and baby including hospital acquired bacterial infections. I believe that every mother has a right to chose her own birth plan.
loading...
I think a home birth is an utterly irresponsible and selfish act on the mother’s behalf. Who gains from a homebirth? The mother. Who might suffer? The baby. A woman putting her desire for a ‘natural, intervention free birth’ is playing Russian roulette with her baby’s life. Obstetricians and paediatricians are NOT shrewd businessmen/women with sinister desires to suck as much money out of women as possible- they are there to potentially SAVE LIVES.
I cannot understand how any woman would ever put her child at risk for some whacked out selfish desire for being one with nature or whatever crap they come up with. Hospitals have birthing clinics for women who want low intervention births. I get not wanting medical interference, but rejecting medical care (while midwives are excellent health professionals, being away from the hospital is detrimental to their ability to provide proper care) is not in the best interest for the baby.
loading...
Around Australia 30 women a year are dying giving birth in Australian hospitals.
loading...
Would they have lived had they been giving birth at home?
loading...
Where are the stories of the women who died having caesareans or in childbirth in hospital? Why don’t they create a media storm? There is so many of those – people just don’t realise how often women still die in childbirth in Australia – especially indigenous women.
loading...
Where are the stats you’re referring to, Joan?
loading...
The source is the Maternal Deaths in Australia Report 2003-2005 from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare – available here as PDF http://bit.ly/zlcXWO and for hard copy purchase here http://www.aihw.gov.au/publication-detail/?id=6442468086. There is a new report coming out later this year for 2006-2010.
The public need access to more timely accurate information about maternal deaths. There is not proper funding for this currently. At the moment one woman is dying every two weeks of childbirth related causes in Australia and 1 in 10 of those are suicide.
Last recorded maternal death at a planned midwife attended homebirth in Australia was in the 1997-99 Maternal Deaths Report – so happened 13-15 years ago.
loading...
The maternal death statistics are in the reports from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare – latest report is called Maternal Deaths in Australia 2003-2005. For some reason the links won’t appear when I post them so you need to google it.
Sixty-five maternal deaths occurred in Australia during the period 1st January 2003 to 31st December 2005 – the number one cause of death was amniotic fluid embolism with 8 women dying from this – of this 8 women 6 of them had been induced.
Amniotic fluid embolism has a 60% death rate – we do not yet know what caused Caroline’s death and it is possible she would have died in hospital too if she had experienced an amniotic fluid embolism.
Last recorded maternal death at a planned homebirth attended by a midwife is in the 1997-99 report – a post-partum hemorrhage – so somewhere near 15 years ago.
Indigenous women die in childbirth in Australia at three times the rate of non-indigenous women. The maternal mortality ratio for Indigenous women in 2003-2005 was 21.5 deaths per 100,000 confinements, almost three times higher than the ratio of 7.9 per 100,000 for non-Indigenous women.
loading...
Because there are hardly any. They are all reported to the Coroner. They are all reviewed separately by the Consultative Council on Obstetric and Pediatric Mortality and Mobidity. This information is available on the Victorian Government State Website. For example, there were 3 “direct” deaths in 2005 (refer to website for definitions of direct and indirect deaths). These figures include people of Indigenous descent (I am aware that their numbers per 10 000 births are higher, would need to refer to individual states and territories). For 2005 there were 65429 confinements. So a very very low maternal death rate. They review the deaths to see if anything could be changed or prevented.
loading...
A woman died last week giving birth in a hospital in Melbourne. Her family have been left to grieve in peace. The way the media used this story is completely disgusting.
loading...
One follow up —
Considering in Australia this is the first maternal death after homebirth in 20 years, and during this last year at least 20 women died after birthing in a hospital there.
loading...
That is completely inaccurate..
loading...
You can’t use part of a statistic to make a point – only the whole statistic can produce accurate information.
The key statistic is percentage.
If hundreds of thousands of women give birth in hospital each year, 20 tragic deaths are not a huge percentage of the whole.
Have your belief, but DO NOT use statistics incorrectly to try to legitimise it.
loading...
Dont you get it !!! Hospital Births are Dangerous also.,but for different reasons than a home birth, and statistically in western countries home birth is safer. Last month here in Israel a woman died in a hospital after birth, why? she contracted a flesh eating bacteria in her vagina, something she obviously contracted at the Hospital, (if she had home-birthed she would be alive today) The largest hospital in NY , NY has a 82% C section rate(mostly cause there the doctors get paid more for a c-section birth)(average in US is 40% also way to high, a major surgery and women die after these surgeries in hospitals every day !!! . how about how many babies are killed in hospital births because of bad doctors and their suction tools or uneccesarry interventions. Hospital births can be toal high pressure and often lead to complications that would not be seen in a home with a competent midwife. What this means is the reason to avoid a hospital are different, every woman in a hospital birth MUST go on antibiotics after? why , because who knows what was put insider her when the nurses and the doctors are internally examining her.. there is often financial insentive to move to c-section or other tools, and BTW birthin on your back is the WORST possible way to have a baby, yet in Western hospital you are forced to lay on your back, why? its easier for the doctors!!! dont be so simple minded when you think about this issue its much more complicated then saying oh I need to be close to emergency room, many times the hospital brings you the need for the emergency room. … America has the worst infant mortality rate in all western nations ( statistics from Hospital Births) … while the statistics for HOME BIRTH are extremely promising and safe. Today with modern technology we have home birth is safer then ever, to qualify for a home birth in most countries you have to be low risk, means placenta is in right spot, blood is good etc.
Do a little reading an learn about some of the OTHER dangers u never realized exist when you do hospital births.
loading...
Thank-you, put so much more eloquently than I could! I think anyone who actually blames the homebirth situation is an absoloute moron! I only have thoughts of love for this woman and her family, but who here can guarantee she would still be alive if she was in the hospital? As far as I can understand, being in hospital may have changed nothing in this situation, except for the fact that this woman died doing what she wanted, birthing how she wanted, and who has the right to tell her it isn’t worth the risk? Who has a right to remove choice from a consenting adult? And that is what it is… a choice, one that should be available to all who want it without uninformed idiots putting in their two cents!
loading...
“Who has a right to remove choice from a consenting adult?” What about the baby who doesn’t get a choice?
loading...
RIP Caroline, I’m sure you only wanted to be the best mother for your children, by choosing to give birth in the home environment. Sometimes the choices we make are not the best ones, but seem so at the time. Your story might help others think how lucky they are to live in this age when maternal deaths are low by comparison to what they used to be,when home births were the only option.Thank goodness there are wonderful doctors and nurses in birth centres and hospitals,if an emergency occurs.
loading...
Goodness me, Pamela311, I hope Caroline’s family didn’t read your patronising, psuedo-sympathetic post! None of us knows why she died and we have no right to judge. As a midwife myself, I know that NO MOTHER puts the style of birth ahead of her baby’s wellbeing. Mothers who choose homebirth are usually well-informed and thoughtful and have often had a bad hospital experience previously. Plus, it is safe! Mother and babies die in hospital too, and not always from unpreventable reasons. Birth, per se, is actually a low-risk activity in the scheme of things – 7 billion people on the planet attest to that, and most of them are born outside hospitals. There will always be a small percentage of mothers and babies who don;t make it, as awful as that is to contemplate.
loading...
This story is so horrendous on so many levels. None of us think anything will go wrong during our labour but sometimes it does. I truly feel for the family and friends of this woman and not to mention the husband and children left behind.
Having worked as a Paramedic for 13 years this story saddens me. I work with Paramedics who were called to look after such a situation and the effect on them is nearly as bad as others involved. All of us say the worst call to attend is the child cardiac arrest. I have been fortunate to only attend one in my whole career but thats one too many. Feelings of sadness and sorrow stay with you for quite some time after such a call. The problem is attending such varied calls as we do we dont have small enough equipment to treat such young patients, all of which they have in the hospital (esp kids hospitals) which can make you feel a little helpless at times.
I hope when making decisions on this like these that people can do so with all the information regarding the risks.
May God bless those girls and their Father xxxx
loading...
Today I found out that a woman I work with and have known for some time is Caroline Lovell’s mother. I was absolutely shocked and devastated for her. I’m not sure what I should say or whether I should say anything? I have the feeling that saying nothing is not a good idea as it comes across as uncaring but the situation is so intense that I wouldn’t even know where to start. Should I say something to her in person or send an e-mail? What should I say? I’ve never had children myself so I have no idea what this loss would feel like. I was so upset when I heard this news it really shook me up.
loading...
People who are grieving always say that people saying nothing is worse than saying the wrong thing. I would give her a condolance card and say something like “I am so sorry to hear about the tragic loss of your beautiful daughter. I just wanted to know that you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.”
loading...
I totally agree with Amanda. You can never imagine what anyone’s grief is like, how they deal with loss and the devastation they feel. A sympathy card acknowledging a loss is a perfect way to show that there is support, love and care.
loading...
Say something for sure, I lost my mother quite suddenly when I was pregnant 6 months ago, and to have people who I work with, friends and even other family members not acknowledge it was hideous. As you are potentially going through the worse period in your life- and everyone knows you are and what has happened, and for people not to acknowledge it is awful. I remember everyone that did, either in person or by card/email and I remember everyone that didn’t. As hard as it is to say it in person, just do it, it makes the grieving person feel like people are reaching out just that little bit and it also allows the person grieving, to talk/discuss/mention their loved one in your presence if they feel to. So so sorry for you work colleague and her grandchildren.
loading...
I have a story to tell.
I had a textbook pregnancy and went into labour two days before the due date. I spent 16 hours in labour and 2 hours of pushing before it was clear that other action needed to be taken. When vaccum extraction failed because my daughter was too big for me to deliver naturally. I had an emergency c-section.
I was delighted that i’d had a baby. (it didn’t matter how, and my only plan was to have a baby).
Not long after I came out of recovery, I had a massive bleed and lost 80% of my blood VERY quickly. I had a blood transfusion hooked up before I went into surgery and to cut a long story short, I spent two days in ICU, most of it with a breathing tube in (plus several other tubes). I had two more blood tranfusions in the days that followed, plus other complications, including a paralytic ileus.
So you can imagine, when I hear a story like this, it has a very strong emotional reaction with me. I don’t know how I survived, I don’t know how I didn’t go into cardiac arrest, I don’t know how I still have my uterous. I don’t know how I can sit here and say that i’ve pretty much returned to 100% health. But I do realise how lucky I am every single day to live to be a mother to my beautiful two year old girl. I also realise how fortunate and lucky I am to have a healthy, beautiful and intelligent child.
It has taken me the best part of two years to recover from the ordeal. Every single day, I think about what happened (and also what could have happened) that day when my daughter was born. I also think about the sheer terror I felt when I had the complications that followed (even after the emergency surgery to stop the bleed) and what the consequences might be for me, if my condition didn’t start to improve. It still terrifies me.
I have always been active and healthy and I have always treated my body like a temple. It made all the difference on the day that it mattered and I was am so glad that I was in a hospital and I am so glad that I live in an age of modern technology. I realise how precious life is and the experience has taught me to live in the moment and it really puts life’s little problems in perspective.
I recently had a meltdown in the cinema when I saw the traumatic Breaking Dawn birth scene. It was a little too close to home and I had a really traumatising stress reaction to it.
But apart from that, I’m doing really well and I am so grateful for the beautiful dark haired South African surgeon (22 weeks pregnant herself at the time) who conducted the surgery that day.
I’m not going to be judgemental about the decisions that people make (hospital or home), but ladies – my experience has taught me to be grateful that we live in the age that we do. xx
loading...
Wishing you well Little Lady. Thank you for sharing that incredible story… Xx
loading...
Sadly, you are more likely to haemorrhage after a Caesarean Section (C/S) than after a vaginal birth, as well as have more pain, more difficulty breast-feeding, jaundiced baby etc. I wasn’t there, but perhaps the baby’s position for birth might have been better if you had been upright, or not had an epidural or not been augmented so that the labour pushed the baby down too quickly for its adjustment into a better position for birth? Of course I don’t know what happened in your case, but the above scenarios are extremely common. Women are subjected to one intervention after another and then are told they need a C/S to “save” them and their babies. Most women in our well-nourished society do not have babies too big for their bodies – the number of successful vaginal births after C/S to babies who are bigger than the first baby attests to this! And 2 hours for pushing is an arbitrary time limit which is often not enough for some babies to be born – especially the first,which often takes takes longer. Hospital birth intervention protocols are devised to reduce risk as much as possible but always cater to the lowest common denominator, which does not take into account the vast variety of women’s birthing styles, how well they have been educated, whether they are fearful (blocking the flow of oxytocin), whether the baby’s spine is towards the mother’s which can make the birth longer and harder (easily fixed by sitting with knees lower than hips during pregnancy, not slouching on the couch) and numerous other factors. It is no surprise that you feel you needed what the hospital had to offer, but maybe it was the hospital that contributed to your terrible experience. Believe it or not, as you actually reached full dilatation and have pushed, you would have a very good chance of having a lovely VBAC (Vaginal birth after C/S) if you decided to have another baby, depending on what sort of surgey was done after the birth. I hope things get better for you very soon.
loading...
Please do not make such judgemental and uneducated comments. I just had a posterior baby, I was extremely fortunate to have an unassisted delivery (in hospital with an excellent midwife and obstetrician). But, I swam and walked and NEVER slouched on the couch (I found sitting as you suggest much more comfortable while pregnant) during my pregnancy and still had a posterior baby. So do NOT insult myself, and others in similar situations, by suggesting I could have “easily” fixed this problem. And also, what an incredibly insensitive reply to someone sharing their ” traumatic birth experience – you weren’t there, you don’t know if she could have delivered vaginally, believe it or not every women can’t actually have a vaginal delivery, as much as they might want it.
loading...
I also had a posterior baby with my first child. I had him at home with a registered midwife present and laboured for 11 hours with 2.5 hours of pushing.
It was hard work and fortunately my midwife had years of experience and was full of great advice and suggestions on different positions to try to move him down and out – all of which eventually worked. I tore quite badly so had to transfer to hospital to get stitched up.
I believe to this day that had I been in hospital, I would have been encouraged to accept various interventions and eventually would have been told that he was stuck and that I would have needed a caesarian.
I feel very fortunate that I was able to have a drug free birth and I have a beautiful healthy son.
For my second child I was extremely lucky to get a place in the birthing centre attached to the hospital which in my opinion is the very best option. I didn’t want another home birth but I did want a drug free birth and to birth in an environment with support from people that inherently believe in a woman’s ability to birth and not view it as a medical procedure. After my first experience, I also felt secure that I was in a hospital in case medical emergency procedures were called for. As it happened, I laboured for about 4 hours at home and had a very peaceful, natural birth in the bath 15 minutes after arriving at the birthing centre.
I wish there could be more funding towards birthing centres attached to hospitals as I believe they provide the best of both worlds.
loading...
If you’ve ever known anyone who has lost a child at birth – either at home or in hospital – the pain is unimaginable. It upsets me so greatly that any woman would put her life or her babies life at risk. Yes women have been having babies for millions of years, clearly, so why not put your trust in a team of people who have the ability to give every assistance possible. People put more effort, research and emphasis on purchasing a car than they do to guarantee the safe delivery of a child. Without the assistance of my OBGYN I would have died along with my son for my first born.
loading...
People don’t choose homebirths because they haven’t researched it – they choose homebirths because they actually do extensive research on why it’s an appropriate method. I actually think hospital birth is the one option that people just reach for without thinking. I’m not saying it’s the wrong choice, but it’s certainly the top-of-the-head go-to option.
loading...
for me,personally, i would prefer to be at hospital. i feel far safer knowing help is close at hand if needed. and for my son’s birth, i needed to be there. i had major placenta previa ( placenta entirely covering the cervix) , and the night before my scheduled c section, i started bleeding heavily, ended up with an emergency c-sect under a general anaesthetic. i was dissapointed that i didnt get to be awake for my sons birth, and that i essentially have no real birth experience. But having my son healthy and alive – and being alive myself to watch him grow- far outweigh that.
loading...
I have met Caroline just a few times but it was immediate upon meeting her what a loving a devoted mother she was. She wanted the best for her children and having a calm birth in a gentle environment was what she thought would give her baby the best welcome to the world. I know many women who have had their babies at home and this is how it usually works out. It does not usually end in tragedy. Many babies have benefited from home birth by having a mother less traumatised by an impersonal disempowering hospital birth that can sometimes result in ongoing post natal depression. Yes, it has worked out the opposite to this kind of positive experience, which makes it even more devastating. Not being here for her children and her husband would have been Caroline’s worst nightmare. There was no selfishness involved in this tragedy, only very bad luck. Love and blessings to you Caroline and your precious children. Love to all mothers, for all we can ever do is make the choices that we feel are right and hope that they turn out to be. Unfortunately sometimes they don’t.
loading...
Hi Amanda,
I’m actually writing a story on home births at the moment for a magazine and I’d love to talk to you about your experiences with Caroline and your thoughts on home births.
If you’re interested in talking to me, please send an email to nat@mamamia.com.au and she will get you in touch with me.
Thanks so much.
loading...
Hi Evelyn,
I’m sorry, but I don’t feel at liberty to speak further about Caroline, and not having experienced homebirth myself I don’t think I’m in a position to speak with any authority about that either. You have probably finished your article by now anyway (I only just saw your request.) I hope it went well for you. Thankyou for writing about such a deep and important issue. Good luck!
loading...
Why dont we judge people this much for driving and talking on thier mobile phones… or drink driving. I chose not to be on the roads with those people and that is a decision I would like to make to give me and my baby the best chance of survival.
loading...
Some of these comments make me so sad because they appear to come from people who should be keeping their opinions to themselves. Caroline died in a hospital. The circumstances leading to her getting to that hospital are unknown to most. I hope that by the time her dear children are old enough to google her name and read these conversations, that Caroline Lovell Birthing Centres are open all over the world promoting and enabling women to birth thier babies in the most natural and loving environment possible.
loading...
Firstly if this happened in a hospital it would not have even made the papers. Secondly Let’s have some respect for the poor family.
This debate will always be.
loading...
you have no right to a say, you stupid man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
loading...
Thats a bit rough- A baby has a father who has every right to make sure their baby arrives into this world safely, also they have the right to an opinion on the safety of their partner.
loading...
Well the “stupid man” who happens to be this woman’s partner is now a widower with 2 infants to care for alone.
loading...
Can we please keep this calm and respectful everyone.
loading...
Naomi, as the father of the children – he does have a say. I would like to think that my husband/partner has a say in this kind of thing. I would respect his opinion too as if he lost me he has lost his best friend and Mother of his children. Nothing wrong with home birthing, as long as something doesn’t go wrong ; but this can’t always be guaranteed.
loading...
Home birth is a choice, we have a right to that choice!, leave us alone!,
loading...
Yes home birth is a choice, but obviously a very selfish one.
loading...
Or misguided. Not many drs choose home birth, maybe because they are medicalised but even more because they have seen how things can go wrong so quickly, and to those you may least expect. The main advantage of home birth is bonding time, the disadvantages horrendous. There’s really no comparison. You have the rest of your life to bond. Its never too late
loading...
Many midwives birth at home, they have seen things go wrong too. Perhaps they know why.
loading...
And let’s all wave to the Dr Amy fans. Enjoying your feeding frenzy ladies?
loading...
Naomi – with respect – what about the babies. Do they not have a choice? I don’t mean to be inflammatory but home-birth always seems to be about the mother’s experience.
loading...
Nothing irks me more than people feeling they have the right to tell other people that the choices they have made around their baby (whether it be the way they bring them in to the world, the way they are fed, when they sleep, etc etc etc) are wrong.
What right does ANYONE have to tell another person that the way they care for THEIR OWN CHILD is not acceptable?
Why is it that this are is open for feedback from anyone on the street that sticks their nose in?
I think you’ll find that there are a great many more mothers having home births than you think, but choose not to share it with people because a)its none of their business, and b)they know they will be judged.
I think the main reason people are so against home birth (even though it is the one way to birth a child that is in both the interest of the mother AND baby) is that they don’t actually know all the facts. So, don’t believe me. Just watch this.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/business-being-born/
loading...
I think it is a shame that there is so much fear and negative emotion towards different birth choices. I delivered my gorgeous 8 month old baby at home through a Medicare funded program delivered by my local hospital. I was supported by 3 midwives who were in constant contact with the hospital the whole time. We were given priority access to ambulance service should it be needed, which thankfully it wasn’t. And best of all we got to recover and be together as a family in the comfort and privacy of our own home.
Like all things in life, no childbirth option is completely risk free. But it can be an excellent option for women given the right conditions – uncomplicated pregnancies and the support of the local hospital. I personally feel lucky that i was able to have a homebirth in this case, and think it is shame that the option and proper information is not out there for more people in Australia. This was how pretty much everyone was born up until about 60 years ago.
loading...
That all sounds very lovely, but extremely resource dependent. Do we really have enough midwives and ambulances to offer this to everyone?
loading...
Resource heavy… seriously – do you know how much a hospital / birthing centre bed costs??? Far higher than resources mentioned above. Yet this higher cost is supposedly fine just in case you are one of the % that need medical treatment. Rather than a small on-call cost that is ‘called-upon’ only if needed. Home birthing makes financial sense and should be an option available.
There is no logical argument otherwise unless you are a doctor and want ‘medicalised control’ over everything (pretty much everyone was born at home 100 years – everyone!!).
loading...
Err… yes… and lots of neonates and many women died… Also, some women do die in hospital from childbirth, Victorian rates are about 3-5 per year (usually) and all legally have to be reported to the Coroner for further investigation. There are usually pre-existing complications, or it’s massive haemorrhage or amniotic fluid embolus. Very unusual for a 36 y.o. western woman to die of some unrelated cause so soon after delivery. Possible, but I’d bet every cent I own that unfortunately it was chilbirth related.
loading...
Kindly compare the mortality rate between now and 100 years ago. This is 100% due to advances in medicine. To choose a home birth is to choose a higher risk option for your unborn baby, which doesn’t seem very maternal to me.
A midwife, no matter how qualified, is not a substitute for immediate emergency medical care in a hospital. To roll a dice with your baby’s life is nothing other than selfish, especially when it is rationalised with this anti-intellectual drivel about “the natural way” and “personal choice”.
Don’t gamble with your baby’s life; nobody wants to see babys dying because the vanity of their parents.
loading...
Or a private home birth midwife who’s income depends on having women birth at home……..
loading...
What about the financial cost of a mum or bub being urgently taken to hospital via ambulance, the intensive care stay and then the life long ongoing cost of a brain damaged child. Even if this was only the case in the 1pc of births as you claim, I suspect this cost may equal the cost of all mums birthing in hospital.
loading...
It may sound ‘resource dependent’ but really most hospitals want new mums out fast so that room/bed/facilities can be made for the next birth. Both of my births I was asked to leave within 24 hours of delivery – to make room for the next.
There are pro’s/con’s for both home/hospital births. Birthing is expensive and highly resource dependent and we are so very fortunate to have choices. Who are we to judge what makes a new mother/family comfortable in their decision to birth their child.
loading...
Couldn’t agree more. Some (tiny tiny %) mothers do tragically die giving birth. Regardless of where and even in the best hospitals… yet people are not jumping up and down about hospitals.
Need to be a measured response based on facts, not fear-mongering.
loading...
The coroner is jumping up and down every time a young woman dies in hospital. Someone polices this and it is IMPORTANT
loading...
I believe that its a personal choice, and that with personal choice you make a decision to take on some level of risk – hospital or no. I don’t believe that information on any option should be censored, ever. My thoughts and prayers are with the family.
loading...
As someone who has experienced severe trauma during childbirth I can safely say that childbirth is a dangerous business.
Yes some women have safe, serene births but not all of them.
I gave birth to my 2nd daughter in hospital. I had bled the entire pregnancy and was induced at 36 weeks. The bleeding increased and I put under a general anaesthetic for a c-section. The last thing I said to my Dr was ‘I only ever wanted to have 2 children’.
I woke up with a 2nd daughter, having had a c-section, hysterectomy and 3 blood transfusions and the anaesthetist was holding my hand saying it was a miracle I was alive. I had a very rare condition called placenta percreta – where the placenta took over and entered my bladder. It has a mortality rate of 80%..
At the 6 week checkup they found urine in my vagina, I already knew something was wrong because I was finding lumps of tissue in the toilet bowl and I was incontinent. Several invasive tests later it was discovered I had a vesicovaginal fistula – again extremely rare. A fistula is an opening between 2 body parts so in my case there was an opening between my bladder and vagina.
At 8 weeks post partum I was operated on by a Surgeon who works at the fistula clinics in Ethiopia, thank god she was based in Brisbane!
My 2nd daughter is now about to turn 13 – make no mistake this has ruined my life, I am filled with scar tissue, have ongoing problems with my bladder and pelvic area, my marriage broke up under the strain, years of seeing Drs and I need to have more surgery this year….
But do you know what the worst part is? The fact that no statistics are kept on Vesicovaginal fistulas or Rectovaginal fistulas in developed countries. In fact the only place statistics are gathered is in developing countries.
So when you talk to the Drs, hospitals, GPs etc they have no idea how many women in Australia have been afflicted – and I know for a fact there are alot of women in Australia…America, UK .. because a group of us have formed a Facebook group to support each other and it has saved my life..
Giving birth is a bloody dangerous exercise and too many women have this gung ho attitude about it. The reality is that if you want to have a baby be prepared that things can and do go wrong, and the Drs/Midwives do not have crystal balls…..I believe having a baby at home is just too risky.
loading...
I was born at home, with a midwife present.
My second child had unexpected complications – had I not been in hospital, they could have been serious for me (not my son, he had been born).
There is no right answer – we are lucky to have choices in Australia – there is no guarantee, whatever you decide.
Love and prayers to all concerned
cx
loading...
What I find most distressing about this awful case is the response from the Midwives in Private Practice, specifically the statement, “it’s just impossible to imagine what might have happened,”
Surely those mothers who choose to birth at home with a private midwife should be afforded a midwife who has adequate education regarding the process and risks of childbirth. I am a doctor, who in no way deals with childbirth, and I can think of a multitude of things that could have gone wrong to have lead to this poor womans’ death. Ultimately, the coroner will provide the answer.
This is simply a demonstration of the poor standard of education among private midwives, and a shame if this is the “best” the Midwives in Private Practice can come up with in terms of public relations.
loading...
Re your point about private midwives – it sounds like home birth in Australia needs much better regulation. A letter in the MJA by the authors of a study into it said this:
‘The Netherlands, for example, has more than 40 000 home births a year, but only three midwifery academies, with a 4-year curriculum. Australia has less than 1000 home births a year, fewer than it has midwifery students, most of whom learn both nursing and midwifery within 4 years.
Midwives in the Netherlands are medical professionals and carefully select only low-risk pregnancies for home birth. In Australia, on the contrary, many independent midwives accept home birth for pregnancies that are not low risk.’
loading...
Even so, even low risk pregnancy and births can have terrible things happen. This is what is important to understand if you choose to home birth.
It doesn’t matter how well prepared, how low risk and how happy you are to do it, home birth is dangerous. The vast majority of well selected cases will go perfectly, but when it goes wrong, it goes wrong quickly, and you want a midwife who is aware of what can go wrong, so that early identifcation and management can be implemented.
From the comments, it seems Australian midwives who homebirth do not have the awareness (if we assume the Private Midwives spokesperson is representative)
loading...
The amount of University study is less relevant than the amount of subsequent experience with births. I actually clocked up a total of 5 years academically to become a midwife and I participate in upskilling and further education every year to keep myself up to date and as safe as can be. Most homebirth midwives have been in the hospital system for many years before they start private practice. It is fatuous to say that, because Australia has so few homebirths, the midwives are not skilled enough – it is not about the number of births you have attended in total, it is about the breadth of your experience with normal birth, collaboration with other midwives and doctors, and working with the parents in partnership. There are plenty of doctors who would be downright dangerous at a home birth because they never did enough in their training and they don’t know enough about unhurried birth to know when to intervene and when not to. I don’t know of any independent midwife who would put a mother and baby in danger just to get the home birth – there are times when transfer is the right thing to do and nobody disputes that. One of the biggest stumbling blocks at present is the negative attitudes often encountered at hospital when a mother does transfer. Surely the staff should realise that the mother and her midwife are doing the responsible thing by coming and try to make it less dramatic than it often is. BTW the most common reason for coming in is NOT an emergency but the mother deciding she would like some pain relief which is not on offer at home.
loading...
The homebirth movement is a cult.
This is the first maternal death I have come across but in recent years in aust there have been several babies who have died because of their mothers decision to birth at home. I don’t blame the mothers. I blame the natural childbirth movement for invoking paranoia among women. For example, the phrase “birth rape” is absurd, ridiculous and just insane.
If you choose to have a baby it is because you want a family. That is all that matters. How your baby gets here is so unimportant in the long run. Why take the chance? Would you put your baby in a car without a seatbelt?
PTSD sucks. So does PND. So does feeling sad Or ripped off that you didn’t get the birth experience you wanted. And NONE of those are worse than losing your life or that of your baby’s.
loading...
Exactly. The rarity of perinatal death in a western country means the healthcare system is a victim of it’s own success. Again, by all means give birth in a field if you want to, as long as you have had access to ALL the info, nit just some biased selective opinion from the home birth religious fundamentalists. Why do you think insurers won’t touch this with a barge- pole? The risk is too high…
loading...
Wow, I am amazed that you would believe homebirthing is even a movement, let alone a ‘cult’!
Women have been giving birth to healthy babies unassisted by modern medical technology for tens of thousand of years – The entire history of mankind, and further than that, which is how we have all come in to being on this planet. Through our mothers and into the Earth. Some have died, some have Thrived. It’s a part of the evolution of humans.
It’s not a movement, it’s a natural part of life, and it’s important to respect a womans decision to give birth wherever she feels comfortable to do so, it it her right as a being with free will.
Also, mothers and babies can die in hospitals during or post birth if something goes wrong. There is no telling when or where it will happen, and it is really an irrelevant matter, as homebirth is proven to be just as safe as hospital births, and far less likely to need intervention during birth ie. epidural, syntocinin or cesarian (of which the latter is in many cases caused by the first two.)
In New Zealand there is a very effective publicly-funded homebirth program, of which I and my siblings were babies born into. It is simply respecting a womans right to choose. In Australia, elective cesarians are publicy funded!
I suggest you really learn alot about womens birth choices and educate yourself about the safety and validity of all choices from basic hospital, to homebirth, to elective cesarian. Each choice is valid.
loading...
My point proven again. No, home births are not safer than hospital births, proven by the study looking at the Netherlands data. Of course therecare less interventions during a home birth – there is no- one there to intervene! Midwives do not have the equipment or training to give anything but the most basic care during a home birth, thus no interventions. Given that I worked at the Royal Women ‘s Hospital for some time I think I may have some “education” on the issue. A cult, i’ll say it again….
loading...
That study you’re citing did not “prove” anything according to the authors. Of course you’ve read it so you’ll know that the operative word was “may”: “The obstetric care system in the Netherlands may contribute to the high perinatal mortality.” You’ll also know that the authors were careful to point out the limitations of the kind of study they undertook, and the problems with the data: “An important limitation of the study is that aggregated data of a large birth registry database were used and adjustment for confounders and clustering was not possible. However, the findings are unexpected and the obstetric care system of the Netherlands needs further evaluation.”
All that study showed was that a more detailed audit needed to be undertaken which is now underway. All of the other Netherlands related papers I looked at while trying to find the one to which you refer indicated that home birth was just as safe as a hospital and that the perinatal birth rate in the Netherlands was declining in no small part due to improvements in care for premature babies.
loading...
Yes I’ve read it but it’s been a while. I’ll have to drag it out again and check the discussion, especially if I’m going to refer to it…
loading...
You are ace
loading...
Yes, very well said. I agree. And, it is a cult – frequented by the ignorant and the naive.
loading...
Peace,
You say:
“Women have been giving birth to healthy babies unassisted by modern medical technology for tens of thousand of years – The entire history of mankind, and further than that, which is how we have all come in to being on this planet. Through our mothers and into the Earth. Some have died, some have Thrived. It’s a part of the evolution of humans.”
So is the death of women or their babies during home births ‘part of the evolution of humans’ too?
The ‘thousands of years’ argument is so ridiculous as to be a joke.
People have been DYING in childbirth – mothers and babies – for thousands of years. Medical support has made that so so rare these days.
And yet you would shun it? Bizarre to me.
loading...
In response to your comment that “Women have been giving birth to healthy babies unassisted by modern medical technology for tens of thousand of years”.
Have a walk around a cemetery that has graves from pre 1950s and you will sadly find a large number of graves of babies, many dead either in childbirth or at 1, 2, 3 (etc) days old.
Don’t underestimate the benefits of modern medicine.
loading...
Bravo Louise. Yes x100.
loading...
The head of the AMA came out today and said that home births were definitely and statistically more risky than hospital births. Why are home birth advocates still trying to justify their selfish choices? Get over yourselves about the ‘birthing experience’ and focus on what is most important.
Caroline’s choice has left her children without a mother, her husband without a wife and countless other people who will miss her. I just don’t get it.
loading...
She may have died had she been in hospital too. The cause of her death has not been determined.
loading...
I am with ClaireC, focus on the important , baby coming home with you, not the birthing experience. There is more chance she would have survived in hospital had she been there. This is very sad.
loading...
Beautifully written Mia, sensitive yet informative and that’s the whole point of publishing the article in the first place.
Our wonderful country allows us to choose. But with choice must come balanced and accurate information.
loading...
Just want to say congrats on a well-rounded commentary of such a tragic story. I am with you personally though. I know all to well how bad things often happen to good people and even in well-controlled settings like hospitals. I too wouldn’t dare risk birth anywhere else, but fully respect every woman’s right to do things differently to me.
Live and let live, I say. And congrats on a great story for pointing out the positives and negatives of both choices without judgement of the individual’s choices or their reasons for making that choice…
Big Al xx
loading...
I had a cesearean myself. I didn’t choose to, but it was the safest option in our situation. I think there is almost as much taboo surrounding ceseareans as there are home births.
I know so many women who are bitterly dissappointed at having to deliver by c-section, particularly those who aimed for a ‘natural as possible’ birth. I understand the complex emotions involved but it still saddens me how many women fail to appreciate how lucky we are to have the medical intervention there.
I hear women complain about their c-section experience when they possibly would have died otherwise – perhaps that perspective should be applied? I have worked in nations that have next to no health care and women die everyday in childbirth. It’s a tragedy when it happens in our own country where we have the facilities to prevent it – women overseas don’t have the luxury of choice we have. If my babies are healthy and alive I don’t care how they arrive.
loading...
Just a few comments:
Home birth advocates keep jumping up and down about choice. Yep, all women should absolutely have a choice as to where they deliver. On top of mt everest if that’s what does it for you. But women need true information, not anecdote (” my hairdresser home birthed a 12 kg baby despite 4 prior ceasers and was fine” ). Anecdotes do not make reliable stats. This is like saying ” my grandma smoked 2 packs a day and lived until 100″ – the exception to the usual outcome. The netherlands has been criticized for it’s high rate of perinatal death in Lowrisk home births. So why do home birth advocates as per the Jane frazer incident hide , deny and twist the problems? They are acting like the most paternalistic people they try to criticize. they deny women being able to make a true informed choice.
Those who carry on about childbirth being a natural process and to ” trust the body” are blaming women with poor outcomes for not believing in their body enough. For if you ” believed” hard enough, surely you could have delivered ” naturally”? How cruel. The women of the world without access to medical care have to believe very hard in their bodies and they still die.
Finally, it does’t matter who you have in your house, no medical professional/ midwife will have ” specialized equipment” to save you from a massive hemorrhage ( the commonest reason for maternal death). Last time I looked there was no blood bank at the end of everyone’s street.
The home birth movement is a religion. Why let truth interfere when faith will overcome all?
loading...
I think there are some really good points made above here. Unfortunately, not everyone is educated to a point where they learn to think for themselves and question anecdotal evidence.
loading...
I have a great and true anecdote.
My mother birthed myself and my eleven siblings. In our Home, Birthing Centres and Public Hospitals. Every birth was straight-forward and simple with no complications. Every blood sister of mine and myself has birthed all thier children with no complications in Thier Homes, Birthing Centre or Public Hospital; including one set of twins successfully delivered at home, and many 45 minute births.
I know you don’t like anecdotes, but for me this is real and true. It didn’t happen to a friend of a friend of mine. It happenned to my mother, myself and my sisters. It is real and close to me and my journey of faith in motherhood.
I am pregnant again, and plan to follow tradition.
loading...
The Homebirth and free birth movements remind me of the anti-vaccination groups.
loading...
There are striking similarities between both. Both are quite cultish, and both love talking people into believing bad things have happened to or around them when it’s not the case.
loading...
I just noticed the photo of carolyn that accompanied this story yesterday has been replaced, any reason why ? The reason i am asking this is that when the question was asked if it was too soon to debate this topic out of respect for carolyn i kinda thought , well obviously the family have given consent for her photo to be published so it must be ok with them , and now its gone ???
loading...
We erred on the side of respect and removed it, as did most other media yesterday.
loading...
What a load of rubbish! You breached privacy and was threatened with legal action. Bottomfeeder!! Respect is not in the vocabulary where you leaches come from. Try honesty, it would be refreshing for you!
loading...
The photograph was taken by a news photographer using a long range lense into the lounge room of Ms Lovell’s home. The family requested that it not be used and to respect their privacy. If, as Mr Morton claims, this site and the other media outlets “erred on the side of respect” then you would not have run the photograph in the first place. No details have been released as to the reason for Ms Lovell’s death and until then this ridiculous speculation and debate about the safety or otherwise of birthing anywhere than in a hospital is absolutely malicious. Not a single poster or the blogger herself has a single concrete fact on which to base their comments on. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
loading...
Really? It was a really clear shot of her looking at the camera in a garden setting? That’s the photo I saw on this story anyway!
loading...
I hope very much to have the chance to experience a successful birth, full stop.
I have some friends who were really pleased with their home births, including one who did end up having to go to hospital when complications arose (she’s still very happy to have started at home). Some of them used inflatable pools, one did it on her bed…
I also have friends who gave birth in birth centres and hospitals, both public and private, with and without drugs, both c-section and vaginally.
All of them are brave and heroic in my eyes, and all of them went through something profound and special, none moreso than the other.
I respect all of their choices. When my time comes, and damn I hope it comes soon, I’m leaning towards the birth centre attached to the hospital.
I’ve spent plenty of time as a patient in public hospitals and, although I hate being there as much as the next person, I’ve always felt so immensly grateful that I live in this amazing country where I receive excellent, free healthcare.
loading...
It would be a lovely experience to give birth in my own home, to be able to crawl into my own bed with my new baby shortly after and feel safe and comfortable in my own environment.
But in my opinion (which will clearly conflict with others, thats what makes it ‘my opinion) distancing myself from medical intervention any further than absolutely necessary would be iresponsible to my husband and to our unborn child.
I will happliy forfeit the above comforts for the security in knowing that should ANYTHING go wrong, I am minutes from immediate assistance. Not a car ride away.
I honestly struggle to understand why anybody would think differently.
Its not just about ‘my birthing experience’ which seems to be repeated alot by those who opt to give birth at home with a midwife rather than at a hospital with doctors. Its about my life and the life of my unborn child.
loading...
Wow, 516 comments and still the old “overuse of interventions” keeps recurring. I am sure that doctors are not waiting at the door to the labor ward, instruments in hand. This is one of a few births for you, one of hundreds, maybe thousands, for the staff helping you. They know when A is going to lead to B and when to take action to prevent it. You are hardly in a position to read and analyse the feotal monitor, your own blood pressure and fluid balance. I have a brilliant family doctor, qualified in obstetrics who delivers a lot of the babies born locally. She had her children in the same hospital where most of her work is done. That says it all for me. Why do some people think that medical science is all about ripping people off or assaulting people with unnecessary procedures.
No one argues when the doctor says you need to have your appendix out, or you need a triple bypass. Baffling.
loading...
Actually yes, people do argue with doctors about other things, particularly triple bypasses where there are other options available like angioplasty.
Did you know that in the WA pregnancy and birth report I’m reading, only 52% of labours started spontaneously? The rest were induced or elective ceasars. In what world is this normal? You’re right labour wards are horribly busy places (cattle yards really) but you’re wrong about this leading to less intervention, rather it tends to lead to medical practitioners acting to hurry things along, it’s sad and true. There was a hospital midwife commenting on this thread who personally attested to this.
Also, if you read your medical history (as I do, coz I’m a bioethics geekazoid) you’ll read many, many horror stories related to people having the latest medical tech pushed onto them unnecessarily, you’ll read about horrible cases of lack of informed consent and undermining of autonomy in what turned out to be NOT the best interests of the patient. This is not restricted to child birth. Google “medical fee splitting”.
loading...
I’ve actually got no idea if 52% of labours starting spontaneously is an alarming figure or not. What % would you say was normal and what do you base this on?
loading...
Would it not be realistic to suggest that possibly 100% of labours would begin naturally without induction…? We are mammals with bodies that function after all.
loading...
Would it not make sense to suggest that the possibility of 100% spontaneous labours would be the most natural outcome. We are, of course, mammals with bodies that function. I think a reason for so many inductions is that general medical society believes that if a woman goes past as little as 10 days from the “EXPECTED DUE DATE” that they must intervene, because it is not ok for that to happen. Not many people understand that it is perfectly normal for women to go for as long as 3-4 weeks past the EDD. It is dependant on the length of the womans cycle and when the babie slungs are developed enough to breathe.
loading...
Sorry…my mistake for not adding obvious words like “safely” and “to ensure the good health of the mother and child”.
I don’t suppose either of you can tell me you are obstetricians, midwives or otherwise medically trained in something resembling childbirth, can you?
loading...
No, just a bioethics nut with a deep and abiding interest in reproductive autonomy (including yours) and a background in science/logic/philosophy to aid the reading.
The 52% induction rate is interesting because of the thought experiment it provokes – Although more women died in childbirth before medical intervention and doctors learned to wash their hands, it was not true that 52% of them popped their clogs due to the septicaemia caused by carrying around a dead baby that they were unable to expel for lack of spontaneous labour. If that had occurred we would have heard about it.
Simple logic should tell you that of those 52% labours that were induced, not all of them could have actually required it.
loading...
Actually you initially said that 52% of labours started spontaneously. That means 48% were induced or delivered by C-Section. There could be any number of reasons for this to happen. Are you an expert on what is necessary or uneccessary? And even if some are not necessary as such, it doesn’t mean they are not safe. There are many increased health risks involved with an overdue pregnancy. Induction at 41 or 42 weeks is often standard as a “better safe than sorry” policy.
Also “elective caesarian” does not mean that it was not necessary, it means it was not an emergency. There could be very big health risks or genetic factors determining the need for c-section. It is probably called elective even if the mother has had 3 before and has little chance of delivering the 4th safely without tearing muscle and tissue.
There is nothing to suggest that 48% of births not starting spontaneously is a problem.
loading...
Hi Lucinda, Replying up here because for some reason your comment does not have a reply button.. I *did* say 52% start spontaneously didn’t I? Serves me right for writing at 3am
And by the way I will absolutely fight for a woman’s right to choose a caesar/VBAC/homebirth whatever whether or not it is medically indicated, as long as she is fully and honestly informed of the risks. But that’s just because I think women are smart enough to look at the risks and decide which ones they want to take.
48% of labours being non-spontaneous should raise eyebrows to my mind. But who cares what I think? Fare enough too, after all, I’m just a bioethics geek with google foo and handy database access.
But maybe you’ll be interested in what the WHO says – 25% induction of labour is too high: http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2011/9789241501156_eng.pdf
And that the caesar rate should ideally be at 10-15%. This is a fascinating study done in Canada where they interviewed OBs re the high caesar rate among other things. Apparently one of the key factors is maternal request for induction. (Which of course I have to support.) Fascinating.
http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/85/10/06-039289/en/
loading...
EDD = estimated due date
loading...
Edit:
Sorry – EDD = estimated date of delivery
loading...
I think it has been repeated elsewhere, but elective caesareans is a misleading term. It means caesareans that take place before labour has begun and includes those that are planned for medical reasons. It does NOT mean people who decide to have caesareans for social or scheduling reasons
loading...
Thank you, vannessayoung!
My mum had an elective caesarean, not because she was “too posh to push”.
It was because she had crazily high blood pressure that more than 1 month of bed rest had not lowered.
A “natural” vaginal birth would have endangered both our lives.
I’m now 18 and have no issues whatsoever with all the “medical intervention” in my birth – I’m pleased that my mother and I are alive, unlike many mums and babies around the world.
loading...
I had to fight very hard for my vaginal birth after surgery. I won’t go into it, but if I hadn’t been willing and able to fight I would have had one of these non existent unnecessary interventions.
loading...
Despite the fact that, ‘women have been giving birth for thousands of years’, you only have to look at the maternal/foetal death rate in third world countries today to see how dangerous giving birth still is (check the World Health Organisation website for latest statistics).
As much as some people would like to think of the birth of their child as their ‘experience’, the very fact that people have forgotten how high the death rate was without medical knowledge and understanding (approx. 1 in 100 or higher is the estimate from WHO in the 1800s) just goes to show how much we have forgotten how badly it can turn out for mother and/or child. Your birthing ‘experience’ may not have turned out the way you wanted it and yes, intervention may have been necessary, but alive and here is better than dead and gone. 1 in 100? Is that that what we really want for the sake of our ‘experience’?
How about we get over ourselves and what is a first-world indulgence and be thankful for medical support, knowledge and intervention instead of demonising doctors and painting them as scalpel-wielding, drug-injecting, intervention-loving morons. Doctors who go into this line of work are committed to fantastic, happy outcomes. Let’s please, be thankful for their YEARS of study and commitment to your cause.
loading...
In the 1880s, they didn’t have antibiotics – and the biggest cause of those maternal deaths was infection. It’s not comparable to now.
No-one is suggesting individual doctors do anything but their best by their patients, but the medical model of childbirth is one that’s problematic at best. And if you don’t think there’s any evidence for over-use of interventions, why don’t you have a look at episiotomy rates? The evidence says it’s better to let women tear – it heals better. Yet many, many doctors ignore the evidence and cut women anyway. And that’s just one small (sort of) example of where the medical practices surrounding child birth do not follow the gold standards of evidence, where other medical practices – like having your appendix out – do.
loading...
Actually, one of the biggest reasons for the reduction in death rate was the people delivering babies washing their hands – who’d a thunk it?
Doctors are much more aligned with women’s choices and models of care than they were in the past. The ‘medical model’ is because hospitals and doctors are medical professionals – and thank goodness for them.
As much as doctors want to avoid being sued for something going wrong, they also don’t want to be reported for infringing on patients rights and choices, which does happen. God forbid they take away from your ‘experience’.
I also didn’t say there wasn’t any evidence of over-use of interventions – I’m sure there are. That’s because doctors err on the side of caution and look for the best possible outcome for mother and baby. There will always be doctors who prefer to do things the way they learned in their training – many older doctors prefer episiotomies because that’s how they were trained (and also because tearing can tear through the anal wall whereas a neat cut often avoids this complication). In the case of episiotomy, if you don’t want one, you don’t have to have one – like any kind of intervention it has to be agreed to by the patient first and should be discussed prior to the patient going into labour. A friend of mine with grade 3 tears (it doesn’t get any worse) tore right through her anal passage and couldn’t control her bowels for months. An episiotomy more than likely would have avoided this.
Really, all I’m saying is that a one night stay in a hospital room where you are close to trained professionals and life-saving equipment is best for all. Emergencies happen can happen in an instant. The loss of a baby or mother is never worth giving birth in the home far from the best available assistance. Who cares if you’re in a hospital room????
loading...
Actually, if you read up, the evidence shows that episiotomies tend to extend to 3rd degree tears (and even 4th degree tears), more so than natural tears. I saw a 4th degree tear that started off as an episiotomy when I was a student nurse over 2 decades ago. I’ve never forgotten it. I’m sure the poor woman hasn’t either.
loading...
It depends which way the cut is – these days (and yes it didn’t use to happen 2 decades ago) if they think a woman will tear the cut is given away from the anus to direct the tear.
loading...
Oh, right, because doctors never cut women without so much as mentioning it first / sarcasm.
I ended up with a massive, third-degree cut – the doctor didn’t so much as say a word about it – first I knew of it was when I heard the scissors. This idea that women are always asked first and have the relative risks of all the interventions explained is just rubbish.
loading...
The same thing happened to me! Seven years ago. She (the Dr.) just went ahead and cut, no warning that it was coming let alone asking permission.
loading...
Then you should have complained – ANY intervention needs your permission, it’s as simple as that.
loading...
I DID complain – but the system that deals with medical complaints is doctors policing other doctors – guess whose side they come down on??
I even consulted a lawyer – they told me no doctor has ever been successfully sued in Australia for lack of consent. So all out of options.
People really are astonishingly naive if they think all is hunky-dory and lovely in a hospital.
loading...
high death rates in third world countries are not due to the lack of sophisticated medical assistence, but due to the horrid health status of most women! Unfortunately, in these lucky Western countries, the people at the top of the chain have not a clue about real birth! It is a scary fact, and as a student in the field, I see it day in and day out and thank goodness I do not choose hospital birth in this country! It is naive beyond words to assume that one is safe in a hospital here!!! Hospitals CAUSE risk from the moment you walk in the door. You toy with a normal labour and birth and you RISK causing a lot of harm. Come on people, there is truth beyond media hype! What is the biggest killer during the childbearing journey? The answer is suicide! Perhaps this fact may shed some light on the importance of the birth ‘experience’ in preventing PND. Another major risk factor for maternal mortality – caesarean section! What is the c-section rate in our hospitals – between about 20-90%! Sure, some are necessary, but the ever-quoted WHO states that in any given place, the caesarean rate should never exceed 10-15% for optimal outcomes! Another major cause of maternal mortality is PPH – something that is extremely common in a hospital due to the fact that many of the interventions mess with the uterus’ ability to clamp down adequately after 2nd stage is complete. PPH in a homebirth environment is not common, but a midwife sure has oxytoxics, fluid, oxygen, etc ready and standing by and is perfectly skilled at utilising this equipment if necessary. Women who chose homebirth do so because, after extensive research, they have found that it is the safest option for them and their baby.
loading...
Totally agree with you and I would be interested to know how many women survived childbirth in the 1800s but with severe problems arising from the birth e.g. bladder problems. I know we will never hav stats on this, but I think modern medicine has decreased the risk of these kinds of injuries from giving birth.
loading...
Better nutrition, women not suffering from rickets as children (or wearing corsets as adults), less high forceps deliveries… none of which are medicine as such (less high forceps being less medicine, rather than more)
loading...
Such a tragic story.
I gave birth to my children in hospital. I couldn’t even contemplate not doing that. It’s my choice.
After by first daughter was born, I became seriously ill and a ‘code blue’ was called on me. Obviously I was unaware at the time what was happening but my husband will never forget it. All I remember was regaining conciousness and seeing approx 20 doctors and other medical staff looming over the top of me. It was petrifying. If I had not been in a hospital when it all happened I could have died.
loading...
Maternal mortality statistics: 45% of maternal deaths occur within 24hrs of birth, 55% later.
Australia has a pretty low rate. 8.4 deaths per 100,000 live births. Ireland has 0, Sierre Leone has 2000.
Most common causes of maternal mortality in the developed world are haemorrhaging (25%) followed by infection (13%), unsafe abortion (13%) and eclampsia (12%) – all issues which can be addressed with appropriate medical care.
For my money, the last word goes to the NY Times writer Lisa Belkin “Isn’t the obvious answer somewhere in the middle — a recognition that birth should be treated as a natural event, until it isn’t. And that it should happen in a homelike environment within a hospital, because when things go wrong they go wrong quickly?”
loading...
Do women have enough choices when it comes to giving birth in Queensland?
612 ABC Brisbane will be having a discussion about home birth this morning after 10am.
We’ll hear from the Director for the Queensland Centre for Mothers and Babies and a representative of the National Association of Specialist Obstetricians and Gynaecologists
If you live in Brisbane and you’ve had a home birth and would like to add your comments, you can listen to the discussion at http://www.612live.com
Add your comments to our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/612ABCBrisbane.
Or you can call us on 1300 222 612
loading...