by MIA FREEDMAN
This idea does my head in.
Freebirthing. Where women are encouraged to shun all medical attention during pregnancy. Imagine. No obstetric check ups. Not antenatal care. No ultrasounds. No tests for the baby - or the mother for that matter. And then there’s the birth itself. Solo. Just you and your baby. Best of luck.
This growing movement of (predominantly) women who loath ‘the medicalisation of birth’ will emphatically tell you that women are physiologically designed to give birth alone, far away from medical intervention. Without even a midwife in attendance. Your body, they will tell you, innately knows how to give birth.
Until, that is, something goes unexpectedly wrong.
Take a look at this (devastating) news report:

Janet Fraser
In Australia, the Joyous Birth website is one of the leading advocates of the Freebirthing movement. But what nobody on the Joyous Birth website will tell you is that this practice of ‘Freebirthing’ led to the tragic death of its founder’s baby.
Last week Jane Fraser – one of Australia’s leading Freebirth advocates – was criticised by a coroner over the 2009 death of her daughter. Experts have confirmed that Fraser’s newborn daughter Roisin would probably have survived if a midwife had been in attendance or if Fraser had been in a hospital or birth centre. Instead Fraser chose to labour at home for five days, eventually giving birth in a blow up plastic pool in her study with just her partner and best friend in attendance. None of the three had any medical training.
You can read more about the case here.
This isn’t a post designed to savage Janet Fraser’s decision to Freebirth her daughter Roisin. When a baby dies it is a tragedy, pure and simple. It’s something I’m painfully aware of.
No. You see it’s not Fraser’s past actions that get me the most riled up. It’s her current ones. Because despite the fact that Freebirthing is the reason Roisin died, Fraser and other members of the Joyous Birth movement are still actively advocating the practice of Freebirth as a safe, desirable option to other mothers on the Joyous Birth website.
And that is what I find reprehensible.
Take a look at some of the information Joyous Birth presents to unsuspecting parents about the pros, cons and philosophy of Freebirthing:
The idea behind unassisted childbirth (UC) is that if the mother is left to birth without any birth authority other than herself to rely on, she will birth as she is physiologically meant to.
With no outside authority to look to and validate her actions, the mother will turn deep within herself and be open to the primal birthing knowledge that is innate in all of us women.
We may not consciously know what to do in the event of so and so complication, but our bodies and our instincts do. Put simply, UC is a leap of faith, and you don’t even have to be religious to do it.
The safest and most responsible birth is one where the mother knows that she needs no one present to birth her baby other than herself. She knows that she has all the necessary primal knowledge that will make itself available to her at the right times.
She knows this knowledge will manifest in actions, feelings and instinct, not conscious, logical thought, and it will prevent and avoid most problems. She educates herself and prepares herself for birth by confronting her fears and researching the “what if’s”, keeping in mind that all she needs is trust in birth, in her abilities and in her baby.
She is positive and confident. Birth is a joyous experience, and she will claim it for her and her baby!
And in the detailed list of 8 ‘Pros’ of Freebirth, they say this:
You have a good chance at a natural, physiological birth – the kind that often goes off without a hitch, and any blips in birthing that may happen, have the chance to resolve themselves naturally first.
Freedom to drink, eat, yell, scream, laugh, cry, express emotions and feelings, wander around, bake a cake, cuddle your kids, play a game, sleep, relax, have outrageous wild sex (or quietly make love). Basically whatever the hell you feel like doing – all without disturbance or inhibitions due to visitors or strangers.
Responsibility for birth, baby and mother lies with you and your partner.
Staggeringly, the ‘cons’ list contains only three points:
If there is a true emergency, there may be a delay in receiving care while you transport to hospital.
You may have difficulty getting support from family/friends if they know you’re freebirthing.
Obtaining a birth certificate can be a hassle in some states – for more information visit Purebirth Australia and read on Birth Certificates
No mention of death. No mention that the Joyous Birth’s founder Janet Fraser lost her baby girl during a Freebirth.
And the Joyous Birth website is not the only one preaching the wonders of this reckless practice.

Lisa Morgan from Freebirth Australia
The Freebirth Australia website is run by Lisa Morgan who says in her introduction: “I have gone from midwife attended homebirth, to a freebirth with my then-partner present, to a solo family birth as a single mother with only my children present.”
With only her children present? Imagine if there had been complications during that birth. My God…..
Like every post we do that involves the death of a baby or mother during birth, we did not publish this one lightly. Yes, there is a real family involved. Who are grieving. And no matter the circumstances of their baby’s death, it’s a tragic, awful situation. But in the case of Janet Fraser and the death of her baby daughter Roisin during a ‘free birth’ at home, the circumstances do matter. They matter very much.
Because the circumstances of this birth are what led to the death of baby Roisin, from a lack of oxygen caused when she became entangled in her umbilical cord during labour, a labour that went for five days without any medical attention or supervision.
This type of birth, Freebirth, was the express wish of Janet Fraser and – presumably – her partner, Roisin’s father who can be heard on the utterly heartbreaking tape of the 000 phone call made after the baby’s birth and death in the video report above.
Janet and her partner chose a Freebirth for Rosin – Janet’s third child – despite Roisin’s birth being known by Janet and her partner to be a high-risk birth. Her second birth had ended in an emergency caesarean and Janet had been traumatised by it, according to evidence she gave to the coroner.
Janet Fraser is not just an individual who made a choice that went horribly wrong. She is a passionate advocate and campaigner for the process of Freebirth.
While the site contains dozens of glowing, rapturous stories, nowhere on the Joyous Birth website are there any stories of free births gone wrong. And that disturbs me greatly. Because just like the absurdly and duplicitously named Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) which pretends to be a source of credible information about vaccination but is in fact a vehicle for alarmist misinformation and rubbish, the Joyous Birth website does not paint an accurate picture of Freebirth.
And like the AVN, it actively seeks to persuade vulnerable, naive parents to make potentially deadly choices about the way they give birth or look after their child’s health.
So why do I care? When we’ve published stories about the dangers of Freebirth in the past, some commenters have questioned my own motivations. Do we write these articles ‘for traffic’? Hardly.
These posts unleash a shitstorm of abuse directed at me from birthing ‘advocates’ who come after me with untold aggression and personal slurs.
So why do it?
My motivation is more personal. I lost a baby halfway through my second pregnancy. Nobody could ever tell me why. It was just one of those things. I have friends like Bec Sparrow who lost babies even later. Bec’s daughter Georgie was stillborn at 36 weeks. I have other friends who have lost babies to SIDS or when they were infants.
Why do I feel so passionately about women who knowingly choose to risk their babies – and their own – lives by Freebirthing with no medical support? Because those babies could all have been saved.
My friends and I and the thousands of women who have lost babies during pregnancy, birth or afterwards never had that choice. We didn’t have the luxury of thumbing our nose at a hospital, doctor or a midwife who could have saved our babies’ lives.
So that’s where I’m coming from.
I’m not encouraging personal attacks on Janet Fraser. I’m not suggesting a witch hunt. The tragic and devastating consequence of their decision to freebirth their daughter is something that family must live with forever. I’m not without compassion for them or their plight.
However the thought that there are ‘advocates’ – including Janet Fraser herself - who are not only making that reckless decision for their own babies and their own bodies but who are trying to convince other women to take those same unforgiveable risks? While withholding crucial information about the death of baby Roisin due to Freebirthing?
I find that distressing and disturbing beyond belief.







Comments
573 Comments so far
Mia, I am with you 100% on this one. neither of my children would probably have survived without medical intervention, and in the case of the first one I probably wouldn’t have survived either. I don’t have a problem with people with low risk pregnancies having home births if all sensible checkups have happened and there is a plan in place for emergencies, but none of this happens in freebirth. How could you even know that you WERE a low risk pregnancy if no one’s checking your blood pressure or, for example, the foetal heartrate? The aim of childbirth is to bring a baby into the world, and doing that as safely as possible for both mother and child has to be the first priority. I don’t care that I never had this amazing empowering experience (or whatever) during my children’s births — I care deeply that I love them with all my heart and that they’ve grown up to be fine, healthy, decent responsible adults. it could have been so different ..
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I think it is highly irresponsible to spread fear about doctors and hospitals. In the “pros” of freebirthing it talks about freedom to do what you want during labour. For the birth of my second baby I spent most of my labour at home and only a couple of hours at the hospital. By that stage I was way beyond the point of wanting to bake a cake or make love! That is what most hospitals will tell you to do. Stay at home while you can and come in when it gets really serious. I’m sure most hospitals will send you home again if you are in early labour and want to do some baking.
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Exactly, great point.
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Oliando – I think you may have missed the point of this post. It’s not about trashing freebirthers or homebirthers or women in general. I am certain this was not Mia’s intention at all.
Noone is saying that these women weren’t acting out of love or what they believed to be the best interest for them, their child and their family.
It is however a hugely dangerous practice and their websites use language that is evocative and seduces women that are emotionally vulnerable into making decisions without the full picture. This is dangerous on so many levels itself.
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Homebirthing? Absolutely yes. It has been proven to be safe for healthy women & unborn babies who’ve experienced a low-risk pregnancy.
Freebirthing? Absolutely no.
It’s unpredictable & shouldn’t be attempted without a medical professional present.
I’m pro-choice, but the process of freebirthing just doesn’t sit well with me at all.
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I also have to add that I’m so glad the article had distinguished homebirth & freebirth as being two VERY different things.
People who are unfamiliar with both sometimes get the two confused.
I have known articles in the past to mesh the two together, which is definitely not the case here.
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What is never talked about publicly is the huge shit-fight on JB a few months after Roisin died – Lisa Morgan left JB… so did heaps of people.
She even wrote a blog about it the “cult” of JB:
http://quickening.id.au/herstory/joyous-birth.html
http://quickening.id.au/herstory/joyous-birth-3.html
It is such a toxic and unhealthy place. women are encouraged to support each other under the guise of feminism and at the detriment of every other relationship- I’ve heard that JF even brags about how many divorces she has caused.
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Thank you Mia for bringing this dangerous woman and her site Joyous Birth to the attention of the wider public. I joined this site six years ago when planning a homebirth with my first child. It was actually a little more homebirth based and less about freebirthing then but the militancy just became too much. A few times I stood up to Janet in response to posts she had made and was threatened with banning, always by her lackeys she never responded herself. I saw it develop over the years into a more and more dangerous site and am glad I got out but very concerned for the vulnerable women who fall prey to its advice.
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Much the same as the AVN and other anti-vax sites. They exhort everyone to question but when you question them, they block and delete you. The NCB groups on Facebook do the same thing.
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Both of my babies had the cord around their neck during childbirth. Thankfully for us the obstetrician figured this out each time and safety removed it before the birth of each of my children. My husband’s cousin is brain damaged from exactly the same thing and has to be cared for for life. Sadly for her family she was born and the hospital staff were not aware of this issue. This was nearly 50 years ago. I am so glad of where modern medicine is and so thankful that having a doctor present saved both my children from possible damage or death.
I will never understand people who risk their life and that of others. Ultimately we all end up paying the cost of their mistakes.
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Mia –
I wrote a response to your last woman bashing post but didn’t send it. I read a few of your posts and combined a response…after reading this…I’ll just hit send. I think you are a heartless monster – but no different to so many others. Please know, there is no dinner party where I would not share these sentiments, and not an ounce of this is disrespectful, it just doesn’t flatter you. Nor should you be flattered given the content of your work on these topics.
When you talk about “Mummy Wars” and then just trash other mothers left right and centre, do you ever cringe a little? I cringe for you.
I’m a highly passionate and invested hombirther, breastfeeding, anti-circumcision and selectively vaccinating mother. My friends are either the same, a variation of – or as far from my choices and values as it’s possible to be.
Turns out, that even amongst my most beloved friends who put their kids in vaccination trials, circumcise for vanity, or have non-medically indicated caesareans and social relationships with the OB’s trying to abolish homebirth – we get along great. And when they share their values, I don’t try to “stab myself with a sausage”, consider their plans better off burnt to ash or dismiss them with the new trendy meme of “first world problems” just because I don’t share the same strategy of approaching and informing myself about birth – my goodness, women seeking to be infomed about birth is fantastic! When it comes to my friends, I see a parent who loves thier child, making the best choices possible for someone they love above all else. I don’t respect all choices and not all choices are equal – but I trust the motivation is love and learn to respect that. No one is ever promised and assured a good outcome.
So despite our differences, these friends of mine don’t need provocative, hurtful, divisive crap like this to know who we are and where we fit in. Maybe when people can’t get along it’s because not all people ever will, maybe it’s not birth, but because one person’s fuckwit is another person’s best friend and it’s ever thus. We won’t ever just all be friends.
I get you are writing a provocative blog because you need to get paid – and I guess even though I can understand the quasi neuremberg defense, I’m still really sickened and saddened by the lack of hesitation to throw women under the bus so you can earn your money. How many dollars is each slap in the face of a mother worth? I bet since you offend so many, in a small article it’s got to be under a dollar for each woman left shamed and stunned, and yet still worth it! Gosh how cheap we are.
At least Miranda Devine is open about who she is – maybe you could be the Miranda Devine/Anne Coulter of mothering blogs? Just be open about it? Just say “I think women are stupid – look how!” Or maybe there is no maybe.
Your comment policy asks that we imagine this is a dinner party, well let me assure you I’d share these sentiments with you in person too – at any party.
But can I ask, would you stand in front of these mothers of lost babies, who you don’t know, whose circumstance you don’t know, who’s families you don’t know, who’s children and history that informed the choices you still do not know – and tell them that they asked for it? That they cared less about their babies than other women? That they had it coming and that it can’t matter very much to them that their babies died, since they were only invested in themselves anyway.
I’ve said this before elsewhere but I will say it again, if you will damn the women who birthed at home and lost their babies due to circumstances that MAY have been different in hospital, will you now damn shame and condemn the women who lost their babies, organs and lives in hospitals, due to circumstances that MAY have been different at home?
No one is promised a good outcome.
Will you now damn and shame women whose cultural values and beliefs inform their choices to birth in connection to their traditions, as opposed to medication practice?
YOU are a Birthzilla. You are judgement and claws ripping at other women, tearing them down and stomping them into the dirt. It’s you. You don’t care about the woman, you care about the birth – except in your instance it’s how smug you can be about it and who – based on your estimation, got it right by being enough like you and your choices, who most reflects your cultural experience and values of birth. You use birth to damn the woman and damn the women who affirm themselves through birth. Birthzilla indeed.
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You are a nasty woman.
Many obstetric emergencies are caused by obstetric intervention. Women and babies have died BECAUSE of surgical birth.
There are no guarantees in life or in birth. Are you going to blame the loss of your baby on the location where it occurred? So why blame this woman for hers?
Try to have some compassion for others.
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I think you are a nasty woman.
Many obstetric emergencies arise because of natural complications. Women and babies have died BECAUSE they haven’t had surgical intervention.
There are no guarantees in life or in birth. So why refuse the care of health care professionals?
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Hi Kylie,
Thanks for your comment. Clearly, the death of baby Roisin was not caused by obstetric intervention because there was none.
And as the coroner found after a lengthy inquest which called many witness and considered much evidence, baby Roisin could have been saved had someone with medical training been present at her birth.
So for those of us who have lost babies in hospitals or during pregnancy, we know that nothing more could have been done to save them.
But for babies like Roisin, the most basic medical assistance could have saved their lives.
Except that wasn’t an option for them because their mothers made a different choice. And now they want to promote that choice to other parents? Astonishing.
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An Obstetrician saved my sons life. I was very grateful for two years until I found out that my sons life was ONLY in danger due to Obstetric intervention in the first place.
I went on to have 2 uneventful homebirths afterwards. So is it ok for me to warn others off hospital births? If my first son had died as a result of that intervention (and he almost did), would it not be irresponsible of me not to warn others against the dangers of hospitals?
Tragedies can happen everywhere. While I do not personally agree with freebirth, I absolutely believe that for a normal, low risk pregnancy, homebirth with an independent midwife is infinitly safer than hospital birth. But above all, I will never crucify anyone else for doing what they believe is in the best interest of their baby.
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I think it would be very irresponsible of you to “warn others against the danger of hospitals”. What happened to your son sucks, no mistake, but that isn’t a reason to put others and their babies in danger. Their births aren’t about you, and by “warning” people about what happened with you, you make it about you.
Just because you absolutely believe something doesn’t make you an authority to advise anyone.
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How did you find out your son’s life was in danger due to the obstetrician, out of interest?
Was it from the/an obstetrician? Or was it describing your son’s birth on a NCB site and finding out it was wrong there?
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Unless you can show me any stats that show a home birth is safer then a hospital birth, then no it isn’t safer. More babies have been saved by having medical intervention then those lose through medical negligence.
In this case, the women was in labour for five days before getting medical attention. FIVE DAYS!!! Had she been at a hospital, she would have received the assistance necessary and the baby wouldn’t have died.
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I replied to the original post – I am so utterly sickened by the things I’ve read here.
I can’t contribute – just out of sadness. The hatred to other mothers, the use of their dead babies against them…my goodness. Mia Freedman, you are a ghoul. Dead babies are tools for bashing mothers with. I hope you manage some humanity at some point.
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Oliando, your reply is so far from the point. Did you even read the article?
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I’m not sure where you are getting the impression of “hatred”. All I seem to be seeing is a profound sense of sadness over the needless death of a newborn.This baby died because a mother valued her principles more highly than the life of her child. Call it ghoulish and call it hate but its the truth.
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A ghoul? Seriously?
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I can’t help but think you are getting a degree of secondary gain with your name calling and pseudopolitical rants.
You are basically trying too hard with your hyperbole – try toning it down and actually entering the conversation.
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The only hatred I see on here Oliando is from YOU. You are being hateful and spiteful. We are clearly not reading the same article. Nowhere is Mia attacking Freebirthers – she is simply pointing out what a dangerous practice freebirthing is. Pull your head in and stop being so spiteful.
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Thankyou! Finally this is an article about freebirth which does not lump homebirths and women who care about their birthing experiences into the same group! Nor does it encourage name calling or nastiness! If only you could turn back time and only publish this one!
I don’t think there will be a huge backlash from birthing ‘advocates’ about this article at all. The reason for the backlash in previous articles was the lack of clarity over what you were actually talking about. Personally I advocate for safe births that focus on the health and wellbeing of both mother and child. Freebirth is not at all safe for anyone.
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Its extremely hard to read I found myself delivery my son with just my husband at home, he on the other end of 000. Never recommend this to anyone. ‘the mother will turn deep inside herself..’ that’s exactly how it feels.
Many people thought if would of been ‘lovely’ and an ‘amazing experience’, what, you lost your minds? It would of been ok if a midwife was there..but no, no I want a hospital, drugs…
I had a good idea what had to happen and I was scared. I prayed that the cord will not be wrapped around his neck, prayed I wouldn’t die. It was just me and my body. I hated not knowing if everything’s ok, no reassurance.
I felt so alone. Not empowered. To choose to put yourself in that situation is insane.
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Thank you for sharing that Mel b. I often wonder about women who do go into labour and are unable (not who choose) to not be at hospital in time. It must be quite terrifying. I’m very glad you and your son are ok and I’m sorry you felt so helpless and scared xx.
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Thank you Shaezy, Yes lucky I was a low risk but still not interested and not a fan of delivering unassisted. My husband is amazing and bragged for a couple of weeks, as men do. We went to the hospital, we were sent home was only 2 cm dilated – he was out a bit over an hour later!! Intense! lucky it wasn’t in the car!!!
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I wonder if the freebirthers support IVF or any kind of assisted reproduction? Methinks they would yet somehow they don’t support the medicalisation of birth. Unbelievable.
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This kind of reminds me of the anti-vaccination debate.
Ask a woman in the 3rd world country if she would like to have medical assistance if it were available and I am sure she would say yes. She would have seen first hand the consequences of not having modern medicine available to her family and village.
Medical intervention has improved mortality rates for mother and baby. This is a proven fact. Why would we want to go backwards?
I agree that the medicalisation of childbirth is an issue, but there must be a happy medium somewhere so that pregnant women get the best of both worlds- able to give birth naturally but with the support of medical treatment if it is required.
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Although mine and my Mum’s situation was different I still believe that freebirthing is too risky. I was born almost 3 months premature and I am so grateful for what the doctors and nurses did for me and my Mum at that time. I am now 25 years old, fairly healthy, with goals and ambitions and a future and frankly I feel really lucky to be here – and even to this day my Mum still talks about how difficult the birth was and how we would have both died had we not had medical care at the hospital. I like the idea of giving birth at home or in a airy, slightly flexible hospital setting but I would never ever freebirth. Too many things can go wrong and not even having a mid-wife present seems to be actively courting trouble to me.
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Janet Fraser has written a blog about this inquest, and all I hear is ‘me me me’. How horrible it is to get hate mail, to have to watch the video of her baby’s death, about how nobody understands her.
She then says one thing that makes me furious: “Stillbirth is no respecter of venue or cast, which is something all birth workers know despite the constant waving of the dead baby card as a way to control women.”
Janet Fraser uses the ‘doctors are evil card’ to scare women away from hospitals. Don’t let fear stop you from going to hospital after five days at home.
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So you agree with her getting hatemail? You think that is a good thing?
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Seriously – that is all you took from her comment? You’re looking for an argument…
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No, I’ve written for popular websites and getting hate mail is terrible. Fraser is lucky because she says she has someone to filter it for her, she doesn’t have to read it.
What I don’t understand is someone who has been told that her child’s death was her fault, can write such a post.
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I’ve also lost babies. I’ve made decisions that I have to live with for the rest of my life. I’m curious as to why you feel the need to continually heap the media spotlight on women whose babies have died despite them making what they feel was the best decision possible. I doubt any amount of outrage or astonishment on your well paid part is going to cause Ms Fraser or others whose babies have died during or after labour to second guess their decisions. I am deeply disappointed at your odd need to continuously chastise people who make decisions different to yours. You went to hospital when your baby died, it didn’t stop the baby dying, I also went to hospital repeatedly while my baby was dying, my baby still died. There are six still births a day in Australia. Unless the child is still born at home there is no coronial inquest. I look forward to you choosing to write an article outlining the behaviour of obstetric staff towards women who request an opportunity to assess and consent to procedures.
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I think, and I think I understand why, you misread what Mia was trying to convey in this article. I do not think she is chastising Ms Fraser over the decisions that she made. We are upset that these decisions are made based on misinformation and that this misinformation is promoted on this website.
I am sorry for your loss. The fact that there are six still births in Australia every day highlights the still precarious nature of childbirth rather than whether or not hospitals are the best places to give birth.
Surely Mia’s rate of pay is immaterial (I earn nothing, for your information, but I am not sure how that is relevant).
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I think the more attention Mama Mia bring to this issue the better. It is important that misinformation is corrected and that people speak up about something that is wrong. It is the same with the anti-vaccination brigade – without sites like Mama Mia, many women would think that the so-called information on those sites was accurate.
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Hi Mrs Campbell,
Not sure if you’re suggesting I was paid to write this post? That’s odd.
Anyway, yes, Janet Fraser will have to live with her decisions for the rest of her life. And sadly, her baby had no life to live at all.
As stated above, this is not about a witch hunt. This is about my horror that even after losing her daughter and a coronial inquest which established freebirthing was a factor, freebirthing websites continue to promote this frankly bizarre practice to vulnerable women who might not know any better and may believe their ridiculous claims.
That’s what this is about.
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Really? You could have fooled me. You seem to be the one hell bent on getting your followers to gather their pitchforks. How about something about more non bias next time
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As this was an opinion based article, the call for less bias is ridiculous. Unless you want MM to resemble the upside down pyramid style of cold reporting, be careful what you wish for. It looks like you’re wielding your own pitchfork of bias, thinking yourself ever so justified, when really all you want is something or someone to rage against.
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What does your last sentence even mean?
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How can free birthing be a “best decision possible” when it lead to the death of the baby? Ms Fraser KNEW that she had a high-risk pregnancy, she was in labour for days, and yet she did what she FELT was the best decision which ultimately lead to her baby’s death! How on earth is that “the best decision possible”?
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I think you are missing Mia’s point of view. She is not badmouthing anyone,but is saying that to advertise something without warning women of the extreme dangers is wrong.
I delivered my son in hospital.The cord was wrapped around his neck and there were no vital signs.It seemed to take forever to resuscitate him & then he was placed on life support.Then the seizures started. If he had not been in hospital he would not be alive.It is because of immediate medical treatment that he does not suffer from cerebal palsy, in fact at 23 has his own home and business.It is not worth the risk.
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I wonder whether the same women would be happy to use medical assistance to intervene if heaven forbid their little ones were born prematurely.
I dont understand why anyone one would take the risk with something so precious.
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Beautifully said, Mia. I can understand the trauma of an emergency caesarean, mine was most dramatic, a doctor was flown in from another town, flares were lit at the airstrip etc. But my son lived (just).
I was angry at first, my mother had quick and easy births and I had expected the same. X-rays during my next pregnancy revealed a narrow midplane and my next birth was also a caesarean. I think women need to discover, or perhaps receive a written report about why their emergency caesarean was required. It would help. Also the trauma associated with a difficult birth should not be discounted, perhaps counselling should be offered.
Finally (I feel like I say this a lot), doctors are not out to hurt you. I am sure no-one goes into obstetrics with that mindset. Natural birth is preferable for everyone. Even if you just look at it from the financial point of view (and hospitals have to do this) caesareans cost money and modern hospitals seem to place a high priority on cost saving.
I feel it is only right to keep the danger of freebirthing and the pseudo science spouted on anti vaccination websites under discussion. Jenny McCarthy’s autism “cure” is another one I would like to see exposed.
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I have to respectfully disagree somewhat on your statement that “doctors are not out to hurt you”. While I don’t believe doctors are out to hurt you, I do think that there are bad doctors, just as there are bad teachers, counsellors, nurses, etc.
I have had the experience of a bad obstetrician firsthand with my own pregnancy and also when my sister was pregnant. I was told that I should have a c-section if I did not want my baby or myself to die when my 20 week scan showed a slightly low-lying placenta. I sought a second opinion and was told to have a scan at a later date (which I’ve done) and the placenta has moved well away from my cervix. My sister was told by her first obstetrician that she had a narrow pelvis and cervix and should just book in for a c-section. She too changed practitioners and went on to birth her first (and subsequent) children vaginally without any dramas.
I recognise that there are absolutely fabulous obstetricians out there; I have had more positive experiences than negative, but to suggest that doctors are not out to hurt you seems to be a slightly inaccurate statement (in my view) and I’m sure many others.
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I agree there are bad doctors and your response and that of your sister was a more realistic approach in that you sought second opinions and did not ditch the idea of doctors all together and decide to go “freebirthing”
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This is such a “first world problem”. Women in the third world would give anything to have access to the medical support that “free birthers” are shunning to ensure the healthy delivery of their child and their own survival in childbirth.
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“Have outrageous, wild sex” whilst free-birthing. Yep, because that’s what most women want to do whilst in labour. Sounds seriously deranged.
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I had to re-read that several times, she’s talking about labour isn’t she???
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Yep Christy! Although you can “quietly make love” if your prefer!
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Seriously? What bloke would want to partake in that?!!
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I did not know whether to laugh or cry when I read that bit. I just had mild hysteria! I remember my much younger, childless at the time, sister saying that birth was the most intense orgasm ever!!!! I thought that was an old,really early feminist myth. Freebirth seems steeped in myths of this type.
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Let’s not romantacise things. Prior to birth, it is a foetus, not a child. It is part of a woman’s body, not an independent entity.
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Melanie, me thinks you’re being mischievious! Naughty!
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Well I thumbs-upped the comment and I’m not being ‘naughty’, I think it’s an important point.
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Should be illegal.
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Personally, I think what needs to be explored in more depth is why the idea that labour/birth is a natural process/trust your body etc and medical assistance needs to be mutally exclusive. Why can’t we work towards combining the two?
In my experience, the direction of group midwifery practice (where you see a midwife thoughout your pregnancy if your pregnancy is low-risk) or birthing centres (less medicalised than hospitals, but usually attached to hospitals is working towards this.
I also think we need to try and understand where free-birthers are coming from and try to work towards a solution where their preferences for birthing without medical assistance/intervention can be fulfilled with medical assistance available.
I do believe that we also need to educate some medical practioners who are on the other side of the spectrum and treat pregnancy and labour as a medical condition and/or are quick to suggest unnecessary interventions.
I am currently pregnant and do not support free-birthing. I personally would not have a homebirth either as I do not believe we are currently equipped with the proper resources in this country to do so (as opposed to some Scandanavian countries). However, I do understand why some women may feel like choosing these options. I genuinely believe that they feel like they are doing the best for their babies. That is why more emphasis needs to be placed on giving women safe options during this process and encouragning women that medical assistance is not a bad thing and if you are not happy with the information being given to you seek a second (or third) opinion. Further, if you don’t feel comfortable with your obstetrician/midwife/dr, look at another obstetrician/midwife/dr. If you don’t feel comfortable with all the tests/scans proposed, look at the advantages and disadvantages of having them/not having them and make an informed choice.
I believe it is possible to combine the two ideas (that labour/birth is a natural process/trust your body etc and medical assistance) and that our medical system is currently working towards this, however more still needs to be done.
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I think most people see things this way, Guest. I only went to the midwife clinic at the hospital when I was pregnant, and it was very much how it was run. Not once in seeing the midwives or doctors, at prenatal classes or prenatal yoga classes was there any pushing of using drugs or unnecessary interventions.
The yoga teacher is a midwife with some 40 years experience, some of which was tending to women in remote areas of Africa. She was a wealth of information about the ins and outs, ups and downs of giving birth, and would always tell us “You’ll all be great”. She never sugar coated what would happen, and would always tell us “Your bodies know what to do. You come to hospital and have midwives around to keep an eye on things and for if you do need help”.
She also pointed out that your body won’t let labour progress if you don’t feel safe to give birth – so apparently often things really kick up a notch when you actually arrive at hospital because you know it’s safe to get going.
The only info I found out in depth about drugs was when I specifically asked at prenatal classes. I then asked my sister (a midwife) about how they all worked and what was the best time/way to use them.
We did a tour of the delivery ward, and they showed us how the rooms work and are set up, explained how we could have showers and be in the bath if we wanted. A far cry from from what the Birth Choicers would have people believe about giving birth in hospital. According to them you’re doped up and cut open as soon as you walk in the door. It just isn’t true, in my experience and observations of friends giving birth in different localities and from talking to midwives.
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I actually found the hospital was too pro-natural for my liking. At my birth classes, the midwife explained epidurals by showing us an enormous needle and saying ‘this goes in your back. You might get paralysed’. She then described the pain of childbirth as ‘mild discomfort’. It was straight out of the joyous bullshit manual.
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I actually put that a bit badly – there wasn’t a lot of info at all in our pre-natal class, I found out most of it from my sister! She explained what each one was good for and when it was useful to use each one. Also that with the gas, it works on you having a base amount in your blood, rather than (as I thought) you just took a suck and you were a bit high for a bit. It was very reassuring to know all the info in case I needed it!
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Luckily, as number 3 is currently in the oven, I am now well worded up on pain relief!
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Did you go to the RPA, Kris? Are you talking about Enid, the midwife/yoga teacher there? If so, I also went there, and also thought she was wonderful!
I agree with you – there is a lot of fear-mongering about hospitals amongst some advocates of home and freebirthing (for what it’s worth, I am pro homebirth, but not freebirth). I gave birth to both my children at the RPA Birth Centre, and had an experience that I believe would have unfolded in much the same way had I given birth at home (ie. everything went pretty much exactly as I hoped it would), with the added benefit that someone else got to clean up the mess afterwards! Before I gave birth to my eldest son, I had considered a home birth, but now that I’ve had two births that have gone exactly according to plan at a birth centre, with the added peace of mind that there was emergency backup just across the corridor if I needed it, I see no reason not to go back to the birth centre again.
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Yeah, that’s Enid that I’m talking about. She’s wonderful, hey?
See, doubters? So often I have related my story and been told “Oh but that’s just your case, not everyone is so lucky” but I think the truth is that not many people speak up about their experience and so you end up with this weird idea that extremes are normal, when normal is normal.
I was all set to try for a water birth (they started running the bath for me and all) but needed an Emergency Caesar. For the competitors, I got to 9cm and only had the general for pain relief, too. Because that’s SOO important.
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I think you’re very right in saying that not a lot of women speak up about their positive birthing experiences. I think sadly that it’s often because they’re afraid of coming across as smug or self-righteous (and unfortunately I think articles like Mia’s Birthzilla one don’t really help the prevailing attitude that all women who are hoping for natural births care more about the scented candles and mood lighting than about the health of their baby), yet there’s no shortage of women prepared to tell you how hideous their birth experience was. The day before I was due to give birth, I was speaking with a good friend, and mentioned that a scan had indicated that my baby was going to be over 4 kilos, and my friend just burst out laughing and said ‘Oh my God – you are going to be ripped to shreds!!’. Nice, and just what you want to hear as you’re about to give birth!
I have an increasing number of friends who’ve had wonderful experiences birthing at a birth centre, and even those who’ve ended up with a birth different to what they were originally hoping for have still viewed their births in a positive way afterwards, as they were educated and informed, fully supported by the midwives at the birth centre, and understood the reasons why they had needed intervention, a caesarean or whatever.
I definitely think that you can have a great birth experience in a hospital setting if you seek it out, and I do think it’s entirely possible to have an experience at a birth centre that’s akin to a home birth.
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This is what I have been so frustrated with, and why I do speak up. When I have mentioned that I had a great time and no complaints about the birth at RPA, I have pretty much every time had some NCBer try to shout me down by saying “Well that’s just you, you’re confident, you’re lucky.” No, I just ask questions and know when to let the professionals do their thing. The first thing I asked the midwife who (ZOMG!!!) did the internal when I got to the hospital was whether I was still cool to have pain relief! Turned out I was coping pretty well anyway, and the midwives after were all amazed at my not taking painkillers after the first night.
My main problem (aside from the safety aspect) with this stuff is putting pressure on people with no real need for it. I don’t think it helps anyone or achieves anything to make someone feel like shit for “weakening” and using pain relief.
I don’t see why or how going to a hospital or birth centre, having the baby, getting observed for a few hours and going home again is such a big problem for these people. I know quite a few people who have had babies at RPA and other hospitals in both birth centres and wards and have gone home that day.
That is why I will always pipe up, because these guys are deliberately misinforming and scaring people unnecessarily.
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Yes, people always sound very surprised when I say my birth plans for both my children went pretty much exactly as I was hoping they would, given that I was in a hospital setting (albeit in the birth centre). I do believe this had a lot to do with my preparation beforehand (as well as some luck), but also believe it had a lot to do with the philosophy of the birth centre. They WANT to do everything they can to help you have a natural birth, and they actually make it quite clear at the intro night they hold that it’s not that easy to get drugs if you want them (for example, the pethidine is locked away in a cupboard somewhere, and three people have to sign for it or something). At the same time, if you do change your mind of your own accord, you can have low-level drugs; if you decide you want an epidural, it’s easy to be transferred to the labour ward; and should you need emergency assistance, that’s also close at hand as well. I definitely think a birth centre is a great option for anyone who wants everything that a home birth can offer, but with the emergency backup, if it’s required. Sure, in a lot of hospitals, you are up against a lot more obstacles if you want to have a natural birth, and I do think it’s concerning that we have such a high caesarean rate in this country, and a rising rate of inductions etc., and that’s why I would love to see more birth centres open, as I think they provides a great option for women hoping for a low-intervention birth.
One of the biggest concerns I’ve always had about freebirthing is that it’s often the women least suited to giving birth on their own, without medical assistance close by, who opt for this type of birth – women who’ve had previously high-risk pregnancies or women whose current pregnancies would be deemed ‘high risk’ if they were birthing in a hospital or attempted to have a midwife-assisted homebirth (meaning they might not be taken on as a patient by a birth centre or by a homebirth midwife). Yes, in a hospital setting, some risks can be overstated, but to attempt to have an unattended home birth when you have placenta praevia or preeclampsia or something is pretty crazy, in my opinion.
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“She also pointed out that your body won’t let labour progress if you don’t feel safe to give birth”
That would have to be the biggest load of bunkum I’ve read here yet. How does she account for all the babies born in the back vehicles on the way to hospital? by the road-side? on the kitchen/laundry floor? All because they all came too quickly; came before their mothers could get to hospital. Does she/you really expect us to believe that all those women who give birth in those situations do so because they feel safe to do so?
If that baby decides it wants out – guess what? it’s coming out.
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It’s not bunkum at all. Obviously if you’re not feeling instinctively safe your body isn’t going to want to go ahead with giving birth. And OBVIOUSLY there are exceptions where the baby waits for no man, hospital or ambulance, just as you described. The exception isn’t the rule, Guest2.
I’d have thought my inclusion of this: “so apparently often things really kick up a notch when you actually arrive at hospital because you know it’s safe to get going.” would suggest that it’s not exactly what happens every time, and I think you know that and are just shitstirring.
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I had a very similar experience through the public system, I just saw the midwives the whole way through, I had to be induced with my first daughter but managed to get in that primal zone and got through with no pain relief and not an obstetrician in sight. My second daughter came after a 3 hour labour and delivered by a trainee midwife. Delighted that they let me do my thing but help was nearby if necessary.
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She knows that she has all the necessary primal knowledge that will make itself available to her at the right times.
Yet her child died
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She might have had “all the necessary primal knowledge” for the birth, but the the coronial inquiry identified she, nor her partner did not know basic CPR, which one would think would be the first thing you would learn going into a freebirth, or motherhood in general.
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But that is just it! She thinks NO medical intervention is needed, even educating herself by doing a first aid course. That her “instincts” will tell her what she needs to know. Why bother with doctors/obgyns/midwives at all then? That will save people thousands by not needing to do their degrees in medicine!
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Give me a doctor. Give me an epidural. Give me my baby! x
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I hope that at least some of this comment is tongue in cheek.
I wish that epidurals weren’t considered as routine. It’s one of the big culprits in the ‘cascade of intervention’ that’s never discussed until it’s too late. People need to be made aware of risks in every scenario, whether at home or in a hospital.
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Well you just lost a follower on your blog.
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You’d seriously stop following someone’s blog for that? Wow.
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I don’t get why we are going backward. Women died in the past from giving birth. We developed these practices to stop deaths, of mothers and babies. We learned and grew with different emergencies and created ways to help keep people alive. I just can’t understand why women would shun these medical interventions when their sole purpose is to keep them and their child alive?
Maybe because we are so spoiled and surrounded by modern technology, we just don’t realize how difficult third world countries have it, and also what our ancestors went through.
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AMEN.
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I struggled to think of what my comment is to this scenario. Being 27 weeks pregnant it’s all too real. Thoughts like “but we use professional help in situations like x, y and z, so why not childbirth”, but I’m sure the free birth advocates would be against those ‘interventions’ too. Baffled describes my thoughts best, as do your thoughts on the topic.
I suppose I’m speechless… And that all we can do really is continue to educate about ALL aspects of childbirth.
Yes, I believe some women go through very traumatic and possibly less profferssional experiences, but if the alternative was the possible death of your child, would you care?
I didn’t want an epidural for my first delivery, but as I didn’t want the other drugs either the epidural was my informed decision at the eleventh hour. And I had a fabulous birth, with an extremely qualified obstetrician. Perhaps I got lucky…
Please parents, educate yourselves, look at all aspects of childbirth and give your choices a long hard thing before choosing your level of comfort over the life of your baby.
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I have to say, I completely agree with you Mia. I lost my firstborn at 41 weeks, and it just doesn’t make any sense to me why you would risk the safety of your children like that. It’s mind boggling.
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Pink Ronnie,
I am so sorry for the loss of your baby. It’s particularly hard to read about people who have rolled the dice with the lives of their children when you would have given anything to save yours…..
xxxxxx
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I don’t have the time to read this article just now, but may I please ask that the photo on the home page be reconsidered for those at work?
I know that what it really is isn’t inappropriate, especially as I work in the health sector, with midwives, but at a glance I thought it was a still from a certain type of movie and it gave me a start. I think it’s the bare bottom.
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Yes please. I had the home page open while I was making lunch for my children home on school holidays. I managed to leap over the kitchen bench and change the screen when I looked over at the computer and saw the photo on the home page . It’s just more than I needed to discuss over my salad sandwich!
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I think this picture is perfectly appropriate & I would have no difficulty explaining this to my children (6 and under).
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My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek Anon. I knew I should have explained myself better……
I also have no difficulty explaining this to my children. It’s not the picture of the woman birthing partly naked in a blow up pool that my children would question, rather they would question why someone would put that picture on the internet and why would I be reading about it. I could see that it would be a long and convoluted explanation and I was hungry. I just wanted to eat my salad sandwich. Is that ok with you?
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Aren’t people supposed to be working at work? Or did I miss something?
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I support to a charity dedicated to improving the conditions for women who give birth at home in developing countries. They say:
‘Every 90 seconds, a woman dies of complications related to pregnancy and childbirth…With an estimated 385,000 women dying annually in childbirth.’
So I just don’t get why a First World economy woman would choose to freebirth. Hospital births can be horrible and clinical but there are other options that reduce the risks.
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I would like to know what the father and the friend think/feel about the death of the newborn? Have they said anything? Do they still support freebirthing?
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Really, what business is it of yours? If you’re that deeply morbidly interested in another family’s pain I’m sure you will be able to read the entire coronial transcript at some point.
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I think it’s a valid question, and I’d be interested to know too. It was the birth of his kid too.
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She advocates publicly, it’s no longer all that private.
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Yeah a totally valid question. He doesn’t seem to get a mention. I wonder if he’s 100% supportive of this movement?
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Why does it matter? He is not answerable to you or the rest of the feeding frenzy surrounding this case. It truly is non of your business. Let ask Grace Wang’s husband if he still agrees with epidurals then, shall we? Or if Rebecca Murray’s husband with the treatment his wife received in recovery when she bled out due to lack of observation by the nursing staff?
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I don’t think we necessarily mean hear from the specific men – but partners of women don’t seem to feature heavily (or at all) in this argument.
I know we made our decisions regarding birthing together. I had the final call, my body and all, but Big Fella’s opinion counted for a lot.
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If the mother, like Janet Fraser does, is allowed to spruik for her idiotic style of birth having lost a baby to it, why shouldn’t that baby’s father get a say as well?
Why would you think that people wouldn’t want to hear from Grace Wang’s husband or Rebecca Murray’s husband as well?
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I believe they are now separated.
Says it all?
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I’m glad this is being discussed…I’ve known for years how crazy the women are who run or support the joyous births website (from personal experience with someone very close to me) Now everyone else knows!!
it is insane that they don’t even learn from the death of a child that the shit that they preach is very dangerous…
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Maybe Joyous Birth and the AVN could combine their experts and peddle their wares together?
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Just to clarify (as a nurse and midwife) she didn’t bleed BECAUSE of the lack of nursing care. She continued to bleed because of it. There’s already enough blame in this world of mothers, babies,labour and breast feeding…
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I truly am baffled at some people’s disregard for modern medicine.
Yes, historically women may have given birth unassisted, but historically a lot of them and their babies died in childbirth.
Why on earth would you risk it? What are they trying to prove?
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So true. “Why on earth would you risk it? What are they trying to prove?”.
As a mum who gave birth naturally in a hospital with the support of a tremendous midwife and an incredibly experienced obstetrician, I can vouch for this: just because you give birth in hospital does not mean you can’t experience a wonderfully natural, drug free, empowering and private birth.
I was incredibly lucky that my birth was complication free but as we well know, any woman can experience problems while delivering. And in that instance all I can say is thank god for those amazing medical professionals who can use years of experience, training and knowledge to help us and our beautiful babies survive.
I am never in favour of putting groups of people down but these “joyous birth” supporters should be locked up.
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After an emergency c-section I was also traumatised (like probably most women are) and the thought of ever giving to give birth again makes me feel sick. However when (if) I feel ready to give birth again I will be heading straight to the hospital, knowing that there are doctors and midwives there to save the day if it all goes to shit. I am so grateful to the health professionals that saved my baby, or she wouldn’t be here right now, and probably I wouldn’t either. I’ve never understood why anyone would want to freebirth. You don’t have to have a high-risk pregnancy to end up in a life or death situation. What a waste of a little baby’s life. My heart goes out to Roisin Fraser, cause she never even had a chance.
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I’m just so grateful for the Internet.
After a traumatic first birth experience with my first born, I started thinking about home birth, which then leads you down paths like free birthing etc.
In my husband’s words, direct quote, ‘I will not actually HAVE a baby with you, if you choose to endanger your & their health by any home birth/free birth bullshit’.
And he instead pushed me towards counselling, & it was there I received (for the first time) post partum counselling.
And now, I see that venturing out of the hospital setting for me would just be SO dangerous. So so dangerous, for me, but more importantly, BABY.
I have a choice, they don’t.
Thankyou for more education …
I don’t think this is about hits.
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This is a great comment-you actually highlight that birth trauma can be healed THROUGH COUNSELLING instead of giving birth again.
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Wow. What a fantastic hubby you have. xo
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I think we need to be careful to not interchange free birth & homebirth: they are two very different practices.
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Mia, Is it possible to put together an online petition? Would your team have the time to do this? I don’t know anything about putting a petition together but could it perhaps be attached to the article and spread onto facebook? I know you’re busy, just an idea…
Perhaps we could stand together and actually make a difference instead of just talking about it.
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Hi Mich – change.org is a great website for grass roots campaign. Anyone can start a petition – http://www.change.org/en-AU
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Thanks Melissa, I’ll look into it. As Arlycarly says though it’s a difficult debate. Making things illegal doesn’t stop them from happening, it would just force this sad practice underground.
The petition could perhaps support that freebirth advocates such as Joyous Birth include a section on their website outlining the risks and the fact the founder’s baby tragically died during a freebirth.
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You don’t think the members on there don’t already know this?
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The members may know this, but do randomn women visiting the site?
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Interesting that her own website states “The safest and most responsible birth is one where the mother knows that she needs no one present to birth her baby other than herself. She knows that she has all the necessary primal knowledge that will make itself available to her at the right times.”
Yet she had her partner AND her best friend at hers. I almost think she doesn’t even believe her own preachings, she just gets off on having vulnerable followers telling her how wonderful she is. Surely she must have to admit now that her “primal instincts and knowledge” didn’t know shit after all! SHAME. SHAME. SHAME.
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Mia, I agree with everything you have written, however, what is the solution? Even if this kind of thing is made illegal what good is going to come? Surely it will just drive women like Janet Fraser further underground? Do we lock women like this up for the duration of their pregnancy and labour? Even if she was offered counselling after the births of her previous children I am not convinced that it would have had much of an impact.
How many pregnant women read her blog and think “hmm this looks like a great idea! Hand me the phone so that I can cancel my doctor/midwife appointments!”? I am not taking away the tragedy of the needless death of a baby however how often is this freebirthing thing actually happening? (Not being provocative, genuine question by the way).
I firmly believe that someone who behaves like this is mentally unwell. The whole story is just tragic.
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Hey ArlyCarly,
I agree, as much as I would like to, you can’t practically make Freebirthing illegal. But what we can do is spread the word and increase awareness about the dangers.
Because if you wandered onto these websites, you could be sucked in by their misleading, irresponsible propaganda and their complete lack of transparency about how babies can die.
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Mia, why do you give other women so little credit for intelligent thought or the ability to assess information? Do you really think that by “wandering onto these websites” any intelligent woman would be “sucked in”?
Really, you just get more incredulous each time you post on this topic.
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I think some women are vulnerable to the type of information presented by the JB website and are influenced to take a huge risk with their life and the life of their child. Mia is trying to correct this by exposing the website, and freebirth in general, as a dangerous practice. JB advocates no antenatal care, which is where most information about relative risk and assessment of risk would take place, so women who have already been influenced by the rosy picture painted by JB would not necessarily have another compelling view put to them. If, by raising the issue here, Mia manages to save someone from taking the path to freebirth then I think she has done a good thing.
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As ashamed as I am to admit it, I was totally sucked in during my first pregnancy. It was just a matter, I guess, of seriously wanting to be believe that birth would be a beautiful experience. The free birth movement uses really seductive marketing techniques, firstly by telling people that hospitals are dangerous for mothers and babies and secondly by exaggerating the benefits of going without medical attention. That’s why I think there must be some legal regulation of websites purporting to provide health information and advice.
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If we hadn’t been within seconds of advanced neonatal specialist care my baby would have died. If I’d been birthing at home unattended we would both have died. So glad I was in the hands of experts who saved my now 3 year old.
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when i read the headline, I thought, Oh God, AGENDA MUCH .
but when I read the article, i thought, Good Point, Well made.
However I think you are preaching to the choir in my circumstance.
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Mia, thanks for writing this very articulate and considered piece. I find the freebirthing position so infuriating that the most I would be able to manage would be something like’ “FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOLY GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR PROVERBIALS AND GIVE-UP THIS RIDICULOUS, IDEOLOGY DRIVEN POSTION YOU RAVING NUTBAGS. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!”.
This is why you have a blog and I don’t.
Cheers
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Haha, love it Caro! Mine had a lot more expletives in it – well done on being so restrained!
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Thanks Shaezy
My first draft wasn’t quiate as restrained and wouldn’t have made it past the moderator. Quite rightly too. No-ne deserves to be
called a @&^$%$% %&&$^$?! $&*#^.!
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Maybe they do???
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Good on you, Mia. You are a voice of reason in this highly emotive debate.
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I agree 110% with medical intervention, I love doctors, specialists, nurses, hospitals ,my 11 year old born at 31 weeks would not be here without it….don’t get homebirths and definitely don’t get freebirthing but that’s just me. What I’m really stuck on is the pros of Freebirthing- “have outrageous wild sex” What the?? When? In the paddling pool? I don’t want to trivialise this at all, I’m honestly asking can anyone explain this to me?
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What?? You mean you don’t feel like wild sex while you’re in labour??!!!
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I feel as sad about hearing about babies dying during freebirth as I do when I hear that a young child would have survived a car accident if only they’d been wearing a seatbelt.
Janet summed it up herself – on the website – “responsibility for the birth and baby.. lies with you”. It needs to add “including any unforeseen medical or birthing complications that may arise, including the the need for resuscitation, or the death of the baby or mother.”
I feel so sad for this family, and for that poor operator who answered the 000 call. But it appears that it she were to have another child she would again choose to free birth. Shivers up my spine.
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I’m so glad to have finally read an article by you that properly articulates your feelings, justifies and shows where you have researched. I definitely get what you are saying! Your past posts I feel where just there to get hits and hype up mothers. This was clear and although it had your opinion it wasn’t outright insulting like your previous column. I’m glad to have read this. Sorry about your loss Mia x
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Freebirthing- stupidest thing I’ve come across!
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I’m on my 6th round of IVF and would do ANYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD to fall pregnant, enjoy a normal pregnancy and have a healthy baby and yet this freebirthing business goes on. I do find it very difficult to be open minded and non judgemental because it isn’t F*&^% fair!!!!!
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Oops that above comment is me – not trying to be anonymous but forgot to log on!
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As someone who cannot carry a pregnancy past 12 weeks, who has lost babies into double digits, who has been trying to become a Mum for 13 years, ANYONE who would risk the life of their unborn child just to birth how THEY feel is right absolutely and utterly DISGUST me.
Birthing isn’t about YOU, it’s about your child and bringing them into the world safely and ALIVE.
These women need slapping and reminding of how fucking lucky they are to just BE pregnant and bringing a child into this world, screw their birth choices, if their “preferences” re birth – because that’s what they are, preferences – contribute towards the death of their innocent, helpless babies, charge the selfish cows with manslaughter.
And yes, if I was at a dinner party with them, I’d say all this (and more) to their faces.
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Geez S/B I would hate to see what you would say to a person who has chosen to have an abortion.
Harsh.
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That’s different, they’ve chosen not to continue the pregnancy. People who risk their child’s health due to THEIR choices during childbirth have chosen to have their child so obviously want to give birth to a living breathing baby and yet their actions prove otherwise. THAT’S what I have a problem with – they’re two faced hypocrites.
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I would toast you too!
So sorry for your struggles.
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Actually, it’s not different. Mothers body her choice. It is better than the alternative which is a government controlling womens bodies.
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Actually, it’s not different. Mothers body, her choice. It is better than the alternative which is a government controlling womens bodies.
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And if I was at the same dinner party I would raise my glass to you and give you a toast.
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…..and a hug *hugs*
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Agree S/B. With every word. It is foreseeable there is a huge risk to the babies life, yet they still do it for the benefit of themselves. You’re so right – they should be charged with manslaughter.
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Totally.
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Really, 42 people have liked S/B’s comment that women who freebirth deserved to be verbally abused and slapped.
Talk about a self-righteous mob mentality mummy lynch mob.
I don’t support homebirth or freebirth but I certainly respect the people behind the choice as fellow human beings.
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Where did I say I would be verbally abuse them? I said I would tell them how fucking lucky they are to be pregnant and to have a choice in how to give birth as there are plenty of women who would kill to be in their shoes but would put the health of their unborn child FIRST, not second, which is what freebirthers do.
As for the slap. Yup. Bit like if someone is in shock and you talk about slapping them to snap them out of it.
And no abortion is not the same as freebirthing. If you abort you’ve already made the decision that YOUR life is more important than that of the child you are carrying (no judgement from me because I am pro choice but that’s what you’re doing) but if you continue on with your pregnancy you obviously want to give birth to a healthy LIVING breathing child, by choosing to freebirth you’re demonstrating actions that actually say otherwise which is irresponsible, thoughtless and very very selfish.
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Mia, this post made me cry. I’m so sorry for your loss (and Bec’s loss) and I am so pleased you don’t let these subjects go. We are unbelievably blessed to live in a place and time where we have access to safe birth and vaccination for our babies. The fact that people reject this blessing, that women in other countries and times would do anything for, outrages me.
Thank you for continuing to shed light on this issue, I’m sure it can be hard in the face of some of the criticism. I think you’re ace.
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Hi Mia, I almost cried with gratitude when I opened Mamamia today and saw this article. Thank you so much for researching this and bringing it up. I couldn’t believe that the case of Janet Fraser and Joyous Birth hadn’t been discussed. It baffles me beyond belief and does my head in too. I can’t believe her website mentions nothing of it either.
I had a discussion on this site with an extreme feminist recently so looked into free birthing more, only to come to the same conclusion as you. I will be interested to hear some extreme feminist views today. And just letting you know, I won’t be patronized with the argument that I am uninformed and uneducated, or that I have to support a woman’s right to choose. I can’t support this.
Thank you again Mia, I have lost sleep over this debate. The practice of free birthing should be stopped.
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Ahem. I’m hardly extreme! My views are Feminism 101.
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That picture of the woman in the blow up pool is disturbing. Give me a hospital with a thousand pieces of medical equipment any day.
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What do you find disturbing about it? Not being snarky, genuinely curoius. Is it because it’s a makeshift kind of a pool? Or is it the waterbirth aspect? Or the lack of medical equipment?
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Disturbing – why??
If she’s had a low-risk pregnancy and she has a qualified midwife on hand to intervene should something go wrong, the woman in that picture conjures up a much more natural image than one in a hospital surrounded by medical equipment. She’s in water (which for many laboring women helps to take the edge off the pain) and she’s in a position where gravity will assist with contractions and birth.
This is an article about freebirths, not home waterbirths and there’s a huge difference.
I think you may have missed the point of the article.
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I’m not sure why you find that image disturbing? The thing is that you can have a birth that looks much like that in a hospital setting. Both my sons were born in a birth centre attached to a large public hospital, in a room that looked more like a hotel suite than a hospital room. My second son was born in the large birthing pool adjacent to my room, and I have lots of photos from his birth that look pretty similar to the picture above (except I was completely naked, and didn’t have a rubber duck for company!). It doesn’t have to be an either or situation (freebirthing in a blow-up pool at home vs being tied down, strapped up to monitors and with a full medical team in attendance). If you choose to birth in a birth centre, you can give birth in a home-like setting, where your wishes for low/no intervention will be respected, but with full medical backup on hand should you need it – to me, it’s the best of birth worlds.
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Tie me down and strap me up to monitors any day, if it means a live baby. But don’t you dare tell people that’s the norm of a medicalised birth, because it certainly isn’t.
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You obviously didn’t read what I wrote at all, Anonymous. I described that scenario as being at the extreme end of the spectrum – not the norm, though in a lot of hospitals here and overseas it is fairly common practice. Have you seen the US version of ‘One Born Every Minute’ (many of the births in the UK version were the same) – women labouring on beds on their backs with no encouragement to move around and use gravity to help the process; continuous monitoring, even when there’s no medical indication to do so; patients giving birth with their feet in stirrups. My first baby, who was stillborn, was born this way too at a private hospital in Sydney, and I have seen and heard of many friends’ births that have been similar. Yes, of course I would also consent to being strapped to monitors etc. if it meant the difference between a live and dead baby – my point was that in low risk pregnancies, this need not happen, and a woman can have a completely natural, drug and intervention-free birth in a hospital setting.
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Plenty of women have given birth in an inflatable pool whilst surrounded by medical professionals. There’s nothing disturbing about it.
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There you go Lola – heres zepgirl, Janey, Siobhan and Anonymous here to tell you how you should feel.
We’re so lucky that we have other women to jump to it and explain to us that we’re wrong and set us straight aren’t we?
FARK she finds the image disturbing, the thought of giving birth in a pool freaks her out – so what? no need for four of you to jump down her throat.
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Agreed. I’ve had 3 natural hospital births surrounded by sterile medical equipment (as some have put it) and the thought of squatting in a blow up plastic pool does nothing for me. And I’m not interested in anyone telling me I’m wrong for thinking it. I’ll think what I want thanks.
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I don’t think any of us were jumping down Lola’s throat. Note that she said that the image was disturbing, not that she personally found the image disturbing. Either way, I think we were all just curious to know why she found the image disturbing, which I think everybody asked in a pretty reasonable, respectful way.
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Kookychic. I phrased my response exactly how I would speak in a dinner party situation – inquisitively and with respect. I was not jumping down her throat as per your suggestion. I am just truly intrigued as to why Lola found that image disturbing. Personally, I am ‘disturbed’ by the amount of unnecessary medical intervention in birth (not freebirthing – that’s a separate issue) and the fact that this very natural looking photo is considered somewhat abnormal or disturbing. No-one is saying that the ‘right way’ is to give birth in a birthing pool but I think it’s sad that we have reached a point in Western society where so many women see birth as a medical procedure and yes, I do recognise that for some women it does end up being that way through circumstance.
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I just asked Lola why she found it disturbing in what I considered to be a respectful manner. There’s no part of me that thinks she’s not entitled to her opinion, nor did I suggest that she was wrong for her thinking or try to tell her how to feel. I asked a genuine question out of curiousity.
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As far history books have told me I am aware that for thousands of years the term “it takes a village to raise a baby” has been around.
There have always been “midwives” and family members around when a birth happens.
So I don’t see how it is really natural to do it “all by yourself”.
It’s a sad situation where they don’t seem to be learning from previous mistakes.
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Sorry if this duplicates (just lost the original).
Maggie, I agree with you – this is one thing I have never understood. Every culture in the world throughout time has had some form of “midwife” or wisewoman or knowledgable aunties whose very job it was to assist in the delivery of babies.
Granted without the medical knowledge and interventions we have now they still had high mortality rates but it was extremely rare for a women to give birth completely on her own.
But most cultures DO lend themselves to “it takes a village” and have always done so.
So how has freebirth and solobirth suddenly become the catch phrase of I Am Woman Hear Me Roar? Have these women watched The Blue Lagoon too many times? (how DID they cut the umbilical cord anyway?)
I will never understand or advocate for freebirth, and I personally feel it is about as UNnatural a birth as you can have.
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I’m guessing a shell or some such. If you don’t and just drag a cord and drying out placenta around for a while, it will eventually fall off anyway. I’ve really thought way too much about this I think.
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