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by MIA FREEDMAN

This idea does my head in.

Freebirthing. Where women are encouraged to shun all medical attention during pregnancy. Imagine. No obstetric check ups. Not antenatal care. No ultrasounds. No tests for the baby -  or the mother for that matter. And then there’s the birth itself.  Solo. Just you and your baby. Best of luck.

This growing movement of (predominantly) women who loath ‘the medicalisation of birth’ will emphatically tell you that women are physiologically designed to give birth alone, far away from medical intervention. Without even a midwife in attendance. Your body, they will tell you, innately knows how to give birth.

Until, that is, something goes unexpectedly wrong.

Take a look at this (devastating) news report:

 

Janet Fraser Her baby died. Yet Freebirthers still want you to try it.

Janet Fraser

In Australia, the Joyous Birth website is one of the leading advocates of the Freebirthing movement. But what nobody on the Joyous Birth website will tell you is that this practice of ‘Freebirthing’ led to the tragic death of its founder’s baby.

Last week Jane Fraser – one of Australia’s leading Freebirth advocates – was criticised by a coroner over the 2009 death of her daughter. Experts have confirmed that Fraser’s newborn daughter Roisin would probably have survived if a midwife had been in attendance or if Fraser had been in a hospital or birth centre. Instead Fraser chose to labour at home for five days, eventually giving birth in a blow up plastic pool in her study with just her partner and best friend in attendance. None of the three had any medical training.

You can read more about the case here.

This isn’t a post designed to savage Janet Fraser’s decision to Freebirth her daughter Roisin. When a baby dies it is a tragedy, pure and simple. It’s something I’m painfully aware of.

No. You see it’s not Fraser’s past actions that get me the most riled up. It’s her current ones. Because despite the fact that Freebirthing is the reason Roisin died, Fraser and other members of the Joyous Birth movement are still actively advocating the practice of Freebirth as a safe, desirable option to other mothers on the Joyous Birth website.

And that is what I find reprehensible.

Take a look at some of the information Joyous Birth presents to unsuspecting parents about the pros, cons and philosophy of Freebirthing:

The idea behind unassisted childbirth (UC) is that if the mother is left to birth without any birth authority other than herself to rely on, she will birth as she is physiologically meant to.

With no outside authority to look to and validate her actions, the mother will turn deep within herself and be open to the primal birthing knowledge that is innate in all of us women.

We may not consciously know what to do in the event of so and so complication, but our bodies and our instincts do. Put simply, UC is a leap of faith, and you don’t even have to be religious to do it.

The safest and most responsible birth is one where the mother knows that she needs no one present to birth her baby other than herself. She knows that she has all the necessary primal knowledge that will make itself available to her at the right times.

She knows this knowledge will manifest in actions, feelings and instinct, not conscious, logical thought, and it will prevent and avoid most problems. She educates herself and prepares herself for birth by confronting her fears and researching the “what if’s”, keeping in mind that all she needs is trust in birth, in her abilities and in her baby.

She is positive and confident. Birth is a joyous experience, and she will claim it for her and her baby!

And in the detailed list of 8 ‘Pros’ of Freebirth, they say this:

You have a good chance at a natural, physiological birth – the kind that often goes off without a hitch, and any blips in birthing that may happen, have the chance to resolve themselves naturally first.

Freedom to drink, eat, yell, scream, laugh, cry, express emotions and feelings, wander around, bake a cake, cuddle your kids, play a game, sleep, relax, have outrageous wild sex (or quietly make love). Basically whatever the hell you feel like doing – all without disturbance or inhibitions due to visitors or strangers.

Responsibility for birth, baby and mother lies with you and your partner.

Staggeringly, the ‘cons’ list contains only three points:

If there is a true emergency, there may be a delay in receiving care while you transport to hospital.

You may have difficulty getting support from family/friends if they know you’re freebirthing.

Obtaining a birth certificate can be a hassle in some states – for more information visit Purebirth Australia and read on Birth Certificates

No mention of death. No mention that the Joyous Birth’s founder Janet Fraser lost her baby girl during a Freebirth.

And the Joyous Birth website is not the only one preaching the wonders of this reckless practice.

lisa morgan Her baby died. Yet Freebirthers still want you to try it.

Lisa Morgan from Freebirth Australia

The Freebirth Australia website is run by Lisa Morgan who says in her introduction: “I have gone from midwife attended homebirth, to a freebirth with my then-partner present, to a solo family birth as a single mother with only my children present.”

With only her children present? Imagine if there had been complications during that birth. My God…..

Like every post we do that involves the death of a baby or mother during birth, we did not publish this one lightly. Yes, there is a real family involved. Who are grieving. And no matter the circumstances of their baby’s death, it’s a tragic, awful situation. But in the case of Janet Fraser and the death of her baby daughter Roisin during a ‘free birth’ at home, the circumstances do matter. They matter very much.

Because the circumstances of this birth are what led to the death of baby Roisin, from a lack of oxygen caused when she became entangled in her umbilical cord during labour, a labour that went for five days without any medical attention or supervision.

This type of birth, Freebirth, was the express wish of Janet Fraser and – presumably – her partner, Roisin’s father who can be heard on the utterly heartbreaking tape of the 000 phone call made after the baby’s birth and death in the video report above.

Janet and her partner chose a Freebirth for Rosin – Janet’s third child – despite Roisin’s birth being known by Janet and her partner to be a high-risk birth. Her second birth had ended in an emergency caesarean and Janet had been traumatised by it, according to evidence she gave to the coroner.

Janet Fraser is not just an individual who made a choice that went horribly wrong. She is a passionate advocate and campaigner for the process of Freebirth.

While the site contains dozens of glowing, rapturous stories, nowhere on the Joyous Birth website are there any stories of free births gone wrong. And that disturbs me greatly. Because just like the absurdly and duplicitously named Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) which pretends to be a source of credible information about vaccination but is in fact a vehicle for alarmist misinformation and rubbish, the Joyous Birth website does not paint an accurate picture of Freebirth.

freebirth1 380x267 Her baby died. Yet Freebirthers still want you to try it.

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And like the AVN, it actively seeks to persuade vulnerable, naive parents to make potentially deadly choices about the way they give birth or look after their child’s health.

So why do I care? When we’ve published stories about the dangers of Freebirth in the past, some commenters have questioned my own motivations. Do we write these articles ‘for traffic’? Hardly.

These posts unleash a shitstorm of abuse directed at me from birthing ‘advocates’ who come after me with untold aggression and personal slurs.

So why do it?

My motivation is more personal. I lost a baby halfway through my second pregnancy. Nobody could ever tell me why. It was just one of those things. I have friends like Bec Sparrow who lost babies even later. Bec’s daughter Georgie was stillborn at 36 weeks. I have other friends who have lost babies to SIDS or when they were infants.

Why do I feel so passionately about women who knowingly choose to risk their babies – and their own – lives by Freebirthing with no medical support? Because those babies could all have been saved.

My friends and I and the thousands of women who have lost babies during pregnancy, birth or afterwards never had that choice. We didn’t have the luxury of thumbing our nose at a hospital, doctor or a midwife who could have saved our babies’ lives.

So that’s where I’m coming from.

I’m not encouraging personal attacks on Janet Fraser. I’m not suggesting a witch hunt. The tragic and devastating consequence of their decision to freebirth their daughter is something that family must live with forever. I’m not without compassion for them or their plight.

However the thought that there are ‘advocates’ – including Janet Fraser herself -  who are not only making that reckless decision for their own babies and their own bodies but who are trying to convince other women to take those same unforgiveable risks? While withholding crucial information about the death of baby Roisin due to Freebirthing?

I find that distressing and disturbing beyond belief.

Comments

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573 Comments so far

  1. H

    There is a small part of me that can sort of understand the idea of freebirthing would seem peaceful to some women. Particularly those who have had a poor assisted birth experience. However, no matter how hard I try, I can’t understand how they can switch off the thought, ‘if something goes wrong, my baby is f%cked.’

    How do you not have that running through your mind during the birth?

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    • bedizz

      EXACTLY my thoughts

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    • brightrfish

      EXACTLY! What about the BABY, freebirthers? What if something preventable goes wrong? Could you live with yourself?

      I have had two quick and ‘easy’ births; however I haemorrhaged after both of them. Had I not been in hospital, I could easily have died.

      My sister-in-law and niece very nearly did die after 40 hours of labour, a forceps delivery and then, two hours later, a haemorrhage that drained my SIL of more than 1/3 of her blood volume. She was told days later that they estimate she was 3 minutes from bleeding to death. Had she been at home, she would not be with us now. There was no indication at all for the 2 hours after my niece was born that anything was or could go wrong.

      My sister: laboured for 31 hours before an emergency c-section. Her daughter’s head was simply too large to fit through the birth canal and my sister’s blood pressure suddenly shot sky high and the baby went into distress. This happened very quickly. Had she been freebirthing, both my sister and my niece would be dead and I would not have a beautiful nephew – born by ‘elective’ c-section after it became evident 2/3 of the way through her pregnancy that her son’s head was projected to be larger than his sister’s head at birth.

      Freebirthing is simply irresponsible and selfish. I personally wish we had free access to more birth centres attached to hospitals: women can give birth with as little or as much ‘intervention’ required to ensure a safe delivery for both mother and child.

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  2. Ness

    Great article Mia. I too lost a baby half way, so I totally agree and understand where you’re coming from.

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    • Jamie

      I’m incredibly sorry for your deep loss. I don’t think this is something that other people will be able to fully comprehend unless they experience a similar thing. But what does someone’s baby dying naturally in the womb have to do with these women choosing to give birth in a way which they believe is most natural? It sounds akin to me losing my father to Parkinson’s liver disease, and then standing up loudly against all those people who choose not to have a liver transplant when it may be in their best interests, but who believe it is unnatural or are against it for a religious reason. I have no right to do that. Sure, I can think they are stupid and silly within my own head, but that is their choice, and it is not for us to judge how others choose to live their lives.
      I realise this is an extremely touchy subject and it possibly feels like these women are gambling with their unborn babies’ lives, but I doubt they see it that way. They believe they are making a smart, informed decision, which will ultimately benefit their child. I can understand your profound anger, but this article seems very narrow-minded.

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  3. fifi-lulu

    Many women these days use the medical assistance and technology to merely fall pregnant in the first place. Some take many, many cycles and many, many dollars to do so. But most of all is the emotional rollercoaster these women go on ….. would be heartbreaking.

    I can not understand why some people would then choose not to have any assistance or medical intervention for the birth. It’s a miracle for some women to fall pregnant in the first place ….. why risk it?

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  4. Anon

    This site also sheds some light on Joyous Birth: http://10centimeters.com/c-section-moms-are-people-too/

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    • clairek

      umm wow! How horrible, by the end of that blog I was getting emotional and feeling like a failure for having a csection. Really damaging stuff, sso glad I didn’t read any of that rubbish a few months ago I wold’ve been a wreck

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    • Marls

      They sound completely bonkers

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    • Rhianna

      I would most certainly never take Janet Fraser’s opinion on what constitues a “safe” and “successful” birth. Her comments here again demonstrate her inability to distinguish what that is.

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    • Mich

      Thanks for attaching this website. Janet’s anger and reading her use terms such as ‘coming earthside’ are disturbing.

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  5. Nessa

    I personally think that the babies needs should come first, secondary is what you want. I have had 3 babies two in hospital and 1 in a birthing centre, should of been 2 in the birthing centre but staffing circumstances prevented that, I decided to use the birthing centre because I liked the more natural approach and I can completely understand the desire for women to give birth at home BUT I think that it is your responsibility to make sure that if something goes wrong you are prepared and have medical help at hand, it’s a nice fantasy that birth is going to be simple and uncomplicated and the labor manageable and also uncomplicated but the reality is things can go wrong and quickly, and you need to be prepared.

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  6. Mrs K

    “We may not consciously know what to do in the event of so and so complication, but our bodies and our instincts do…”

    That right there shows just how dangerous these women are. This shows a complete ignorance to the physiological make up of women and how internally, the body changes (or doesn’t change as is the case) in order to give birth. No, our bodies aren’t made to birth. Our bodies are made to walk and run. If they were made to birth, women would have difficulty walking due to the changes of the pelvis and hips that would have to occur; there would be no ‘S’ bend for the baby to have to manouver out of and there would be no pain nerves to comunicate pain to the brain. It’s why being born is the most dangerous time in someones life. It’s why a mother was considered extremely lucky if she hadn’t had atleast one stillbirth prior to doctors, who had studied female anatomy intensly, were introduced.

    It should be a requirement that before women decide to advocate ANY type of birth, they should take a biology course that includes a side focus on evolution.

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  7. Nat

    How sad!
    It should be illegal.

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    • Siobhan

      I personally think freebirthing is pretty reckless and dangerous and it’s not something I would ever consider, however I think calls to make the practice illegal are unsound.

      Firstly, women should have the right to birth how and where they wish. Stripping women of these rights means giving more rights to the baby than to the mother, which would lead us down a very scary path where we might see other reproductive rights eroded. As it stands, a woman has more rights than her baby until the baby is born, and while there may be a small number of individual cases where this might seem very wrong and unfair, changing the law would set women’s rights back a very long way.

      Secondly, there is just no practical way that I can think of that freebirthing could be made illegal. There are stories in the news every week of women whose birth happens too quickly for them to make it to the hospital in time, and who end up giving birth at home / in the car / on the freeway etc. How would the law determine which women birthing at home had done so intentionally and which women had done so by accident? If the practice was illegal, you could still avoid prosecution by making out that you had every intention of giving birth in hospital by booking into a hospital or birth centre early on in your pregnancy, and attending the odd antenatal appointment, then claiming that the birth had happened too quickly to get to the hospital. There’s just no practical way that it could be policed, not that I imagine most of us would really want to live in a society where birth was policed anyway.

      I believe that educating women about birth choices is key, as is making women aware that there are other options in between the extremes of a fully-medicalised hospital birth and a freebirth at home. I also believe that women do need to educate themselves about the birthing process in order to give themselves the best chance of having a healthy baby and a positive birthing experience (as it is so often a previous bad experience that turns so many women to extremes such as freebirthing).

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      • Mrs K

        No, Siohban.
        The first thing about birth shouldn’t be that women can choose where to give birth. The first thing is that the baby be given the best chance of surviving the birth. That includes having qualified staff attend the birth.

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        • Rosie

          I really appreciate your sentiment but Siobhan laid out some compelling reasons why that could lead us down a terrifying path as a society. Of course the baby’s safety should be paramount. But that’s just too simplistic. Ultimately for the baby. To have the “best chance of surviving the birth”, every birth would need to take place in hospital.

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          • Mrs K

            I read what Siohban wrote. I don’t see any compelling arguments of why mothers shouldn’t have their babies safety as the most important factor of giving birth.

            The fact that the first thing Siohban wrote was that mothers have the right to birth anywhere they like, instead of pointing out that firstly, mothers should have their babies life most prominant in their thought, is what I am disagreeing with.

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            • Siobhan

              Mrs K – I didn’t say that the choice over where to give birth should be the first and foremost thing a pregnant woman considers. For the record, I believe the health of the mother and baby should be of primary importance of course, but I was speaking about why outlawing homebirth is a decision that would be fraught with problems, and one that would be a hugely backward step for women’s rights, not to mention being completely impractical. Have you heard about the Personhood movement in the US? It’s scary stuff:

              http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/06/24/personhood-usa-s-keith-mason-eyes-election-day-2012.html

              In concrete, practical terms, I just wonder how all the people calling for freebirthing to be banned would actually envisage this happening. Do you believe that the police should be sent around to the home of any woman who hasn’t been fronting up to a hospital during her pregnancy, handcuff her, take her to hospital in a paddy wagon, tie her down and drug her (you may or may not be aware that some of these things used to happen to birthing women routinely in our not too distant past). Or do you believe that the police should turn up after the baby is born, remove the baby from his/her mother, and lock the mother up in prison? I mean, in all seriousness, how could this possibly work?

              Morally and ethically, I believe that all mothers should have their baby’s (as well as their own) health and wellbeing as their primary focus (which I believe the vast majority do anyway), and I personally believe all births should be attended by suitably qualified professionals. But realistically, how do you FORCE women to give birth in a hospital setting, and would you really want to?

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            • AP

              I have to juggle my safety against the baby’s safety. It is marginally safer for my baby if i have an elective c-section for this birth. However, it is marginally safer for me if i have a vaginal birth (due to previous c-section). Sure, i am giving birth in hospital as it is the safest way to juggle the needs of both of us.

              I am just trying to point out that not every safety decision is black and white.

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      • Ally

        So well said Siobhan.

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        • Mich

          This is true. I read some comments in the bad feminist debate about the impossibility of policing freebirthing. One in particular about comparisons to arresting pregnant women for choosing to eat soft cheese. Rachael are you out there? I’m surprised you haven’t commented here.

          I think the first step that needs to be taken is to force advocates of freebirthing (such as Joyous Birth) to disclose the risks, openly for all to read on their page. I also think counseling should be made available to woman enquiring about having a free pregnancy/birth.

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          • Rachael

            Sorry I’m not a regular commenter or reader here. Just stumbled across this today…so no Anon was not me!

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  8. Anonymous

    You couldn’t have said it better Mia. Each to their own.. but when it comes down to putting the life of a beautiful baby at risk – just so you can claim to have had a “free birth”, it disgusts me.
    We have modern medicine for a reason… and we also have a hell of a lot with freedom of choice – you can choose to birth at home – but please – Please do it with a qualified Medical professional there or undertake the course yourself, so you will know what to do if the cord is around Bub’s neck etc. You OWE your unborn child that – it is your RESPONSIBILITY as a Parent.

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  9. Rach

    Freebirthing sounds like a much nicer birth experience assuming everything goes well- but my god, does the vast improvement in childbearing survival rates (for the mother and child) in modern times count for nothing?!

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    • Mrs K

      I personally think the idea of freebirthing is not as nice as a hospital. There I ate, drank, cried and all the other things they mentioned can be done at a freebirth (except for sex. Is it just me or does the thought of sex during established labour, which is when women go up to the hospital, make anyone else feel queasy?). Not to mention the fact that as soon as baby is born, you can relax in the hospital bed with them and they bring you food and drink. Also, you don’t have clean up all that mess. Or ask your husband to clean it all up. The last thing my husband and I would have wanted, to do instead of spend time with our new baby, is clean up blood and other bodily wastes.

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      • Donsie

        The reference to having sex during labour made me literally laugh out loud, how ridiculous, probably one of the most stupid things I’ve ever read.

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        • anon

          From a male point of view, sex was the last thing on my mind when my children were being born. Being called a bastard by my wife every now and then didn’t help either :)

          However, there are several instances in my life where I have felt an amazing amoung of love for my wife, and one of those times was the first time she held the children, and she was crying for joy for the healthy little baby. It blew me away every time.

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      • SullivanthePoop

        I could never understand the fixation with eating. I couldn’t even stomach food on my husband’s breath, let alone eating any myself. I guess everyone is different though.

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  10. CH

    Good on you Mia for reminding everyone what a crock of shit the AVN are. It’s so stupid that both these choices freebirthing and anti-vax actually put other people at risk ie. your very own child, not just yourself. I would be seriously angry to learn my parents had decided not to vaccinate me. The sad thing is the babies/ kids have no say in these risky practices

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  11. tiffany

    i think everyone should be allowed to choose the birth they want, but free birthing is careless. My second birth was really quick and we didn’t make it past my bathroom floor. We practiced a birthing style called calm birth, which gave me and my husband the tools to relax and allow the birth to happen. however we would never choose this style. the cord was around my babies neck, luckily it was long so not choking but the ambulance arrived in time to untwist it.
    Calmbirth is a fabulous style of birthing which I practiced for all 3 of my births. It follows the principals of giving into your body which is designed to birth a child and relaxing and breathing through it rather than fearing the process. However with the help of midwifes and dr’s if you choose. It promotes giving birth in a safe environment – birth centre or hospital. http://www.calmbirth.com.au. Free birthing gives a bad name to natural birth and should be illegal. It was not our choice to birth at home, we were lucky but we made sure for our third birth we made it to the hospital and had a beautiful calm birth with a midwife and husband present, with a dr next door had we needed it.

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  12. Bec S

    Hi Mia, as others have said, thank you for clearly pointing out the differences between freebirthing and homebirthing.

    What I would love to see on this website is a post informing women about how the government has made it incredibly difficult for registered midwives to practice legally in Australia- as a result, many of these women who would have had a homebirth with trained midwives available, are choosing freebirth instead.

    So instead of a petition to make freebirth illegal, I would love some more education for your readers (and maybe a petition) on improving the red tape that midwives have to go through to practice as homebirth midwives.

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    • Quokka

      Can you refer me to some research that backs up that claim that women are choosing homebirth as a direct result of midwife requirements, just the journal name, authors and date will be enough. Ta

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      • Bec S

        With pleasure…

        “Overly restrictive legislation has meant that the number of private midwives attending births in Australia has dropped from 200 midwives in 2009 to only 90 midwives in 2011. Some women are having to birth at home unattended, some are being forced into hospital births they do not want. Regional and rural areas have been significantly impacted.

        Federal Health Minister Nicola Roxon said two years ago that it ‘would not be a good outcome’ if homebirth was driven underground due to the reforms being implemented by the Government and that Australian Health Minsters’ would ensure that women can make an informed choice to have a midwife attended homebirth.

        At the Australian Health Minsters’ Conference in September 2009, Minister Roxon stated ‘I have made clear that I was concerned that as an unintended consequence of the national registration and accreditation process, that home birthing might be driven underground, that that would not be a good outcome.’ and ‘We have however ensured that women can make the choice if they’re properly informed to still have a midwife attend to a home birth.’”

        From press release here: http://homebirthaustralia.org/ (scroll down to bottom)
        press release sources:
        Homebirth Statistics Source: Australia’s Mothers & Babies Report 2008 available from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare online here – http://www.aihw.gov.au/publication-detail/?id=6442472399

        Press Conference – Health Minister’s meeting, health and hospital reform, homebirths, swine flu, IVF -http://www.health.gov.au/internet/ministers/publishing.nsf/Content/tr-yr09-nr-nrsp040909.htm

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  13. Diana The Huntress

    Christ, Mia. Pushing a barrow, much? As many of you know, I’m staunchly childfree. In general, I don’t give a shit about birth choices, birth plans, breastfeeding, attachment parenting, whatever. None of these things are on my radar unless my friends are dealing with it. But FFS. The women who do want to make this choice get it. They’ve heard you. Let it go!

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    • Diana The Huntress

      Just to add, that doesn’t make it ok for free birthers to judge women who go the conventional route, either. How about respecting each other’s choices?

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      • Anonymous

        I wonder how baby Roisin feels about that.

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        • Anonymous

          Baby Roison no longer has thoughts or feelings so the idea of something that doesn’t exist having thoughts or feelings is irrelevant.

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          • Sydney girl

            “something”. Interesting choice of word. Surely, as Roisen was a human being, you mean “someone”. Or do you subscribe to the JB mantra that unborn children aren’t yet people, and therefore don’t have rights?

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    • Diamond

      There are obviously women who don’ t get it, that it is why babies keep dying

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    • Mia

      Hi Diana,
      Thanks for the suggestion!
      But as long as free birthers and anti vaxxers and other groups peddling dangerous, junk information as credible and desirable practices, I believe it’s a good idea to let people know about it.

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      • Rosie

        Mia, small correction: GREAT, LIFESAVING, not just a good idea!!

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      • anon

        Give ‘em heaps Mia, the freebirthers and anti vaxers are pushing infanticide. They deserve all the derision they get.

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        • Anonymous

          I really do have to wonder about parents who willingly line up and have their children injected with god knows what, at least antivaxers are informed with what they are NOT poisoning their child with .I was one of the uninformed parents who blindly presented my child to be vaxinated only for him to end up in intensive care for 4 weeks , fighting for his life , due to an “unexpected” reaction to the vaxcine.When I then refused to have my following children vacinated I was labled a crazy anti vaxer each time I had to disclose their immunisation status to preschool ect.Obviously my oldest child was given a medical exemption from further immunisations but because my following children were from a different father they were not able to be medically exempted, and I was expected to take the risk of repeating history , am i negligent ? peddling dangerous junk information ? or is the the medical vaxers that expect me to put my childrens lives at risk by “givining it a go and see what heppens ” which is how my local health nurse put it ..

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          • Molly M

            Anonymous, it must have been difficult watching your sick baby in ICU. Thank god he’s okay. Makes me think of my friends, and many other parents, who have had to sit and watch their tiny babies struggle for every breath with whooping cough. Some don’t ever get to take their babies home. I am pro-vaccination – I’ll take decades of medical research and healthy kids any day.

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          • Sullivanthepoop

            Yes, you are not making the best decisions. You seem incredibly angry over an uncommon reaction to vaccines. It is horrible and I feel for you and would never want to go through that, but I have an uncommon reaction to oranges, should I spend my life angry and decrying orange farmers? Citrus fruit in general? God? Uncommon reactions can happen with just about any substance on earth. Also, you could talk to your doctor about allergy tests to find out if your younger children are affected. They are kind of cruel if you do not know the exact substance you are looking for because they are lots of small needle pricks that may or may not cause a hive, but they are not dangerous.
            Secondly to assume that because I get my children vaccinated I do not know what is in vaccines is so far from the truth and so arrogant to assume.

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          • Lisa

            See anonymous, that is the exact problem with parents like you – you make the offensive comment regarding parents who blindly line their kids up to get them pumped full of poisons (vaccinations). You want respect for your choices, how about you give respect to other parents’ choices. Just because parents choose to vaccinate you assume that they have not done their own research. Shame on you.

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  14. amandarose

    I really liked how this article is written as it expresses your opinion in a way that does not come across as offensive.
    It is reckless and silly to free birth especially if you are older with high risk pregnancies- I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. But normal home births are not in the same catagory. Putting all birth choices I. The same box is what people found offensive.
    so well done- making your point in a way that does not raise women’s hackles.

    My only question is – is free birth increasingly happening? or is it just the odd person here and there?

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  15. anon2

    normally when anyone asks ” what do you want, boy or girl?” , most people respond by saying, “I just want a healthy baby”. I don’t understand why anyone would want to risk their babys’ life by giving birth without medical supervision. It does not make any sense to me.

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    • Anonymous

      Because when a medical professional is involved, these women are afraid of being ‘birth raped’. They are insane.

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  16. Tara

    Are we back in the dark ages? Are these free birthers aware of what a wonder it was when aesthetic was finally available for giving birth? (only last century). How hard women and their husbands fought the doctors and the church for the RIGHT to be pain free during childbirth? How many women and unborn/newborn babies would DIE in the process of ‘natural’ home births that were the norm back then (1 in 200 mothers).

    I’m all for free choice but the risks are not minimal, and the use of pain relief and medical intervention became popular for a reason!

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    • Sullivanthepoop

      Not last century, but the century before. Queen Victoria had several births with chloroform and advocated its use for all laboring women in England.

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  17. Anonymous

    When my Obstetrician asked what my birth plan was, I told him: to have a living, breathing baby. That’s it. Don’t care for oils, incense, whale sounds etc, just that the outcome is right. However it happens. And I had two natural births, both with complications – no drugs involved – and I am so grateful to have been surrounded by medical specialists. Those doctors saved my daughter’s life after my first birth, and my life after my second birth. I LOVE doctors. Full support to Mia.

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    • brightrfish

      I answered the question about my birth plan with “to see how I deal with labour on the day, see whether there are any unexpected complications and ultimately have a healthy baby at the end”. My obstetrician actually thanked me for being practical!

      Thank goodness I was in hospital both times: I have had two fast, natural, virtually drug-free births followed by haemorrhaging for both my babes. Without the amazing midwives and doctors in attendance, I may not have survived either birth.

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      • Anonymous

        I didn’t even bother to have a birth plan – like Janet Fraser my birth was high-risk (my whole pregnancy was high-risk). I just wanted a baby that wasn’t dead, and told the midwives that. The first one was lovely, she got it. The second one, after shift change, was awful. She told me “you should have made a birth plan”, and when things went pear shaped and I told her something was wrong, she said “how would you know, you’ve never had a baby before”. If it wasn’t for the wonderful obstetrician, who came to check on me on his way home even though he’d handed over to someone else, I wouldn’t have my living breathing (now four years old) baby. I would have died too.
        Freebirthers are just damned crazy. The majority of births are simple and uncomplicated, but when things go wrong, they can really go wrong. Better to be in the hospital (labour & delivery or birth centre) just in case.

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  18. Catherine

    “We may not consciously know what to do in the event of so and so complication, but our bodies and our instincts do…She knows that she has all the necessary primal knowledge that will make itself available to her at the right times.”

    Oh god.

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  19. Appalled

    Honestly Mia,

    When god was giving out brains, did you REALLY think he was giving out thickshakes.

    Yet another poorly researched, inflammatory article.

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    • In disbelief

      How so?

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    • amandarose

      I think this piece is non offensive- she is just explaining her thinking and why she questions these choices. In the past they were inflammatory and I found it insulting but this all seems like someone saying how they feel and why.

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    • Oliando

      Women’s devestation = her paycheck.

      But hey – remember! Mia doesn’t like Mummy wars!!!

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      • beansbeansthemagicalfruit

        Oliando, I’m baffled at the point you’re continually trying to make against Mia. Until this article I didn’t even know people chose to free birth in Australia. And I sure didn’t think women existed out there that would willing shun any medical intervention at all throughout their pregnancy and labour. Or if someone did, they’d at least be sensible enough to make sure one person in the room had basic lifesaving skills. But of course, when push came to shove what did they do? Call for help from that same medical intervention that they felt was so unnecessary throughout the whole process. Yet again someone thinking they know better than medical professionals yet relying on them to clean up the messes they create from their own ignorance and arrogance.

        From the ABC: “Ms Fraser told the inquest she’d made choices she was comfortable with. On her Joyous Birth website she says hospitals are dangerous and obstetricians are surgeons at heart whose skill set is rarely needed. The coroner describes the views as propaganda insensitive to the harm they could do. Counsel assisting the coroner argued in favour of releasing the audio of the triple 0 call, saying it may prompt expectant parents to think again about free birthing.”

        My heart goes out to her for the loss of her baby girl. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. But she acted recklessly with both her child’s life and her own. I can only hope Janet’s at least telling her fans to go take a First Aid course because it seems despite what happened to Roisin, she still doesn’t quite get it.

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      • Anonymous

        You are hilarious. I have been reading your comments on here and laughing at the low level of intellect that the freebirth movement attracts.

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      • Mia

        Oliando, here’s an idea. Defend your views instead of attacking me personally.

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    • katherine anne

      Care to elaborate?

      How is the article poorly researched?

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    • Anonymous

      No, but he clearly forgot your grammar skills.

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    • Mia

      Appalled,
      Interestingly, a large chunk of this article are direct quotes from the Joyous Birth website and was written by Freebirthers about Freebirthing.

      Perhaps think about blaming them for the ridiculousness of the information they peddle. Not me.

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      • Lisa

        Well said Mia. It’s appalling the way you’re being attacked for your views. I thought that was the whole point of these forums was for rational discussion. It saddens me that adult women can’t simply say their piece without bringing personal attacks into the equation. For what it’s worth, I am sorry that you lost a baby Mia. No one can understand what that is like unless they have been through it themselves. I can understand why you don’t agree with the ideals of the Freebirth movement Mia. As you’ve said, shouldn’t the main concern be a healthy baby?

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    • Miss

      Your comment doesn’t even make sense. Perhaps you lined up for a thickshake instead of a brain….

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    • A-Dubbs

      Mmmmm…. Thick shake.

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    • Marls

      Chocolate pls.

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  20. Kaz

    I’m all for sex, drugs and a hospital birth but I understand where these women are coming from. We’re the only species that gets assistance with birth from medical professionals. Women were created to give birth unassisted so if a woman wants this then good on her. Let’s not judge and accept that death is a part of life and some survive childbirth and some don’t. Sad but true.

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    • ClaireC

      I would have died as a result of my labour and so would have my baby. Oh well, I guess that would have been ok by you, to leave my other child without a mother and my husband a widower.

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      • Kaz

        I think you missed my point. You chose to have your child in hospital I assume and that’s fine- I did too and I also was at high risk. My point is that we shouldn’t judge people who make choices that differ to ours.

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        • ClaireC

          Why is is such taboo to judge people? If someone’s choices are resulting in babies dying then I will judge their choice and I will judge it harshly.

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        • Elizabeth

          Kaz…are you insane?? Let’s not judge??? I’ll bloody well judge this stupid narcissistic woman when it involves the death of a child when it could of been preventable and she was told beforehand that the birth was high risk. It was not like she was not made aware of this…but as per bloody usual she wanted an experience akin to climbing Mount Everest….Me, Me and Me.

          That’s all good and well if it just involves you. But when it involves another person and they had NO say in it then it becomes alot of people’s business.

          I’m sick and tired of this ‘let’s not judge’ bullshit. I’m sorry but we live in a world where we are govered by rules and laws and if we veer outside of that we will be judged. Or to quote yourself ‘sad but true’.

          I cannot believe how stupid and throw away your comment was. Like…’oh well…that’s just life isn’t it??’ some people get to live and some people get to die and that’s just the way it is. So suck it up’.

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    • Hannah

      Incorrect. Farmers and Vets have been assisting animals give birth for a long time now too.

      Medical intervention was also created for a reason so why deny yourself the opportunity to utilise it and drastically reduce the risk of something going wrong?

      I am for people making their own decisions but I, like Mia, am against people advocating for a cause without presenting ALL the facts.

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      • Kaz

        I don’t think my original reply came up.
        Anyway, humans only intervene with animal births for self gratification. Farmers assist so humans can consume animal products and vets assist so humans can have pets.
        I would never have a freebirth but I respect someone who chooses to do it. I don’t need to know any facts- I know that I’m making decisions that are right for me and I assume other people do the same.

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        • Kris2040

          Or they don’t want the animal to die. Surely even if it’s a selfish motive, helping if it’s needed is a good thing?

          Why don’t you need to know any facts when you make a decision?

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    • anon2

      we live in a first world country where having a baby shouldn’t become a crapshoot. Oh , maybe it’ll live, maybe it’ll die. are you kidding me?

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      • Kaz

        The probabilty of it dying is low. I wouldn’t take the risk but I respect someone else’s decision to have a freebirth. That’s my point.
        I don’t understand why people are getting so defensive.
        If someone has a differing opinion then accept it- no one asked you to change yours.

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        • Maz

          The probability of either killing yourself or someone else when driving with a blood alcohol of 0.08 is also low. Still doesn’t mean it should be condoned.

          The risk, though low, can be made much much lower. The baby doesn’t care where it is born, s/he just wants to be breathing at the end of it all.

          Choice is not always to be respected. We don’t allow choice when it comes to car safety seats, drink driving, etc.

          There is also nothing wrong with judging people, and applying pressure, when their choices are both dangerous and irrational.

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    • Claire

      Are you actually being serious? You’re suggesting we should allow natural selection to apply to humans, in the 21st century. That is wrong on so many levels.

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      • Kaz

        Why is it wrong?
        In theory it makes sense but in reality it will never happen because humans are very selfish.
        I never mentioned natural selection but now that you have, just imagine what the human race would be like if we never evolved.

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        • Claire

          It’s wrong because it’s incredibly cruel to actually suggest that any woman who can’t have a baby with no medical help whatsoever has inferior genes and should just accept it. Go to a third world country and say to a woman’s face that her feeling pain over losing her 8 babies is just selfishness.

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          • Kaz

            I would probably not call her selfish but would state that everyone dies for a reason. It would be terrible to lose a child during birth or pregnancy but in most cases there is a biological explanation and I think we need to remember that.
            If someone has lost 8 children don’t you think there’s a biological reason she shouldn’t have children?

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            • Claire

              Sorry but you just have an abhorrent attitude. The reason that child mortality is so high in some countries is due to a lack of basic medical care. It has nothing to do with the biological makeup of the mother. It’s not the mother’s fault when the umbilical cord gets wrapped around the baby’s neck or when the baby is positioned the wrong way or when there is no basic sanitation and the baby gets an infectious disease for which there is no available treatment.

              Why do you accept medical care when you need it if you think people who need help have a biological flaw and should just suffer the consequences and die like nature intended?

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            • Kris2040

              Yeah, the reason Janet Fraser’s baby died was her mother didn’t have anyone with a clue what was going on at her birth or looking after her mother leading up to it.

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            • Alexa

              Come back and say that to me when you have had 4 miscarriages and one still born. Your comment is very selfish and very insensitive.

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        • Maz

          Natural selection would mean no Stephen Hawkins.

          People don’t understand natural selection. We have entirely different selection pressures now. Most are not “natural” pressures. The idea we should leave childbirth up to natural selection does not make sense.

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          • BushpigletI.

            At least Stephen got to be born.

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    • Nat

      Even many hundreds of years ago women would have rarely given birth alone. The tribal version of a ‘midwife’ and other experienced women would have helped a woman in labour.
      Free birthing is not the same as home birthing.
      It should be illegal.

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    • Ladybug

      Of course women were made to give birth unassisted but a damn lot of them died in the process. In this day and age with access to medical care why on earth would you knowingly put your baby and yourself at that much of a risk?

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      • Kaz

        I agree with you. But surely these women have a right to do what they want. As selfish as it may seem to most, I’m sure they know the risks and haven’t made the decision lightly.

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        • Anonymous

          Fraser knew the risks and did it anyway.

          Just proves they put their personal desires ahead of the safety of the baby.

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        • Ladybug

          And a baby has the right to have the best chance to live if something goes wrong.

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        • Maz

          Why should all choice be allowed?

          The problem is they don’t understand the risks.

          The problem is they put themselves ahead of the baby. We call that being selfish, and selfish behaviour underpins many other choices we already say are not acceptable.

          Do drink drivers, child abusers, petty thieves all have a right to choose? Or do we say “no that choice is wrong and dangerous”?

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    • Faybian

      Because we stand on 2 legs instead of four, our pelvises have had to evolve to cope with this and as a result are heavier than those of some other mammals and the baby, to come out has to undergo a type of corkscrew manoevre to enable the foetal skull to move through all three sections of the internal pelvis, given the dimensions of the pelvis and foetal head have so little “spare room”. Yes we certainly can give birth unassisted, but ideally not unaccompanied. I don’t include the baby’s father as the birth attendant, he usually is no more experienced or knowledgeable than the mother.

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    • Sullivanthepoop

      Women were not created and we lost our ability to birth safely when we gained the ability to walk upright.

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  21. kateb

    fully agree with you

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  22. Anonymous

    Janet Fraser should be charged with manslaughter – pure and simple.

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    • amandarose

      No- that is not fair. when abortion is legal free birthing has to be too, Women deserve choices with there own bodies.
      she paid the ultimate price for her stupidity. A dead baby.

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      • Kris2040

        No. We have the choice (thankfully) to decide whether to terminate a pregnancy or go ahead with it. If we choose to go ahead with it, then with that right comes the responsibility to the baby to do the best we can to make sure that they arrive alive, healthy and safely. Eschewing medical care doesn’t fulfil that responsibility.

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        • Anonymous

          I have to admit I was shocked that she wasn’t charged. She had ample time to call an ambulance. amandarose is right in saying that she paid the price of a dead baby, but judging by her decisions to go ahead with freebirthing again even after complications with her previous pregnancies, I am guessing she will go ahead and freebirth her next baby too. It makes me wonder whether a dead baby was actually a punishment to her and that perhaps the law should crack down on her.

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      • Anon

        Abortion has restrictions and, in fact, is not even legal in Queensland. You cannot legally abort past a particular gestation unless there are compelling medical reasons (threat to the life of the mother generally) for it. So then the moral (and perhaps even legal) argument comes back to where is a woman’s unlimited right to choose curbed? I’d argue that it comes after the point that she has decided to have the child and can no longer, under the law, terminate. That’s when we understand that, while we have rights, we also have responsibilities.

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        • Laws for Clouds

          The coroner ruled the baby was born alive I believe, meaning abortion law might not come into it?

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      • Anonymous

        Abortion is only generally legal up to a certain point of the pregnancy. After that point has passed, there has to be very specific criteria met. You can’t just terminate a pregnancy at 8 and a half months because you changed your mind

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        • Anonymous

          That’s actually primarily because of the huge danger it would be to the mother though – not entirely about the cognition of the fetus.

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          • Maz

            That is incorrect. Late term abortions can be performed quite safely.

            The main reason for the rules are to do with a societal stance on when life begins.

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    • Another Guest

      How about we start charging all the women who have abortions with manslaughter too then?

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      • Kris2040

        How about we stop having this ridiculous comparison being made?

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        • Anonymous

          Another Guest has a point though. A lot of commenters are de-crying the entire practice, as though it isn’t the mother’s choice to make. Sounds a lot like those people who de-cry abortion.

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          • Kris2040

            Like I said above: No. We have the choice (thankfully) to decide whether to terminate a pregnancy or go ahead with it. If we choose to go ahead with it, then with that right comes the responsibility to the baby to do the best we can to make sure that they arrive alive, healthy and safely. Eschewing medical care doesn’t fulfil that responsibility.

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      • Mrs K

        An abortion is very different to a woman chosing to birth on her own at home and failing to call for help until after the baby passed away. The baby was born alive. That makes it a live human being according to law, just like you are. The two aren’t even comparable.

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  23. Angiepange

    Two traumatic emergency c-sections has proven I don’t do natural labor very well. For me, it meant letting go of my personal desires for the safety of my children.

    Frankly, I’m thankful for medical intervention. I hate to think of the outcome had I considered free birthing.

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    • LKW

      Me Too Angiepange. I had only what can be described as a “shocker” first birth 18 hrs of labor, pushed for 1 hour, emergency c-section with an additional incision to my uterus cos bub was in birth canal, sent home then re-admitted back to hospital with an infection blah, blah sick of having to justify my c-sections, about to have my third in Oct.
      Would hate to think where my babies or I would be without medical intervention. Before I had children, I seriously thought I would just “pop em out”

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  24. beansbeansthemagicalfruit

    My mind is blown. Despite thinking I’m pretty with it when it comes to parenting and current affairs (I see now I’m obviously not) I didn’t realise until reading this that people purposely freebirthed in Australia. I truly had no clue. And I definitely wouldn’t have assumed it’s legal. The government has seatbelt and helmet laws to prevent us from getting injured but we can give birth at home with no medical assistance necessary pre, during or post and that’s considered ok? We are made to protect ourselves in a car or on a bike but not when we’re doing something that almost 300k women worldwide die from doing each year? These laws exist because sometimes as humans we just act incredibly stupidly and don’t think of the possible consequences of our actions/inactions. I’m not even going to get into the risks of freebirth to the baby because my mind will explode even more.

    From WHO:

    “Every day, approximately 800 women die from preventable causes related to pregnancy and childbirth.

    99% of all maternal deaths occur in developing countries.

    Skilled care before, during and after childbirth can save the lives of women and newborn babies.”

    Thankfully women worldwide are no longer dying at the rate they used to but that’s mainly because of foreign aid and increased access to medical services. When you remove prenatal checkups and testing and you just wing it at home with your partner or friend, you’re putting yourself in the same boat as those women my2cents referenced below. Actually many of them probably had medical assistance of some sort and still died due to the lack of technology and medical advancements. May as well shut off the electricity, throw out your telephone and turn off the heat in your house while you’re at it if you really want to get all 1910. Seriously wtf is going on here???

    *To be clear: I’m all for home births for low risk mothers who are properly assisted and are prepared for the possibility they may not get the home birth they want due to pregnancy or labour complications. However if I found out someone I knew was adamant on her plan to freebirth, I’d be on the phone so bloody quickly to anyone and everyone to see if there was a way to stop this from happening so she didn’t unnecessarily risk killing herself let alone her child. Unfortunately it seems those efforts would be in vain because although I can dob someone in for throwing a cigarette butt out of their car window or for having their music cranking at midnight, it’s no biggie to have a baby at home alone. What a friggin joke.

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  25. kersten

    I have tried, and I have tried again….but I simply cannot see the choice to freebirth as anything other than a woman placing her wishes above the life and health of her baby.

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  26. Happymum

    I don’t understand freebirthers. And I really don’t get when they say that they want to shun medical attention, but end up ringing 000 when it’s just too late, but…..

    I can see how they want a DIY birth because hospitals are sometimes pretty average depending on your location.

    I had a baby in a sub-standard hospital. I was urged to travel 2 hours to the (proper) regional hospital where we are told to go have our babies.

    I am a fast woman when it comes to babies, and I knew I would not make it in time. I was pleading for the plane to collect me so I could get to that regional hospital before the birth. I pleaded with the Doctor for an ambulance to come. So at least if I DID have to go by car, it would be with people who are allowed to drive bloody fast and actually medically trained.

    The health “system” wanted me to get in my car, with my husband who has only birthed lambs and calves. They were hoping that I would not become a liability at the tiny hopital if things went to shit.

    I would of been over the moon if I had.

    a. The proper hospital with all the equipment
    b. A Doctor who didn’t do the runner on me and who actually listened to me.
    c. A different mode of transport since they were so keen on kicking me out, they just can’t let people wing it themselves.

    In the end I ended up with a midwife who was barbaric and yelling at me, a nurse who had not witnessed a birth in 30 years. A Doctor who fled the scene. And a tinpot hospital with walls crumbling around me and no equipment to deal with my emergency.

    I am still amazed that we both came out of it alive.

    It was pure luck! And I can tell you when you have incompetent people reaching for forceps, you push that baby out as quick as you can.

    I don’t get freebirthing.

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    • Anon

      Wow, that is full on. Big Internet hugs to you for getting through it! I live in a remote area with a terrible local hospital and my biggest fear is of being pregnant, something going wrong, and not being able to drive the four hours to the city. Scary stuff.

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  27. my2cents

    These people have obviously not studied one ounce of history. Around 1900-1912, the infant mortality rate in Australia was about 1 in 10 to 1 in 15. I am sure we can all think of 15 women we know. 100 years ago, one of them would have lost a baby before it’s first birthday. The maternal mortality rate was about the same–significantly more mothers died giving birth in NSW around this time period than miners died, and mining was/is considered an extremely dangerous occupation. (These statistics are from official records of Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages and records from mining companies, so these are facts, not my opinion.) Barely 100 years ago, which is not that long ago at all, babies and mothers regularly died in childbirth or shortly thereafter because there was little to no medical assistance or intervention available.

    We know how the saying goes–those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

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  28. Katrina

    Great article Mia.

    I can’t understand how any one can blatantly shun support to ensure the best possible outcome from all. If you choose your medical support team correctly you can have minimal intervention…. if everything is progressing well.

    I was fortunate to have a great medical team who picked up problems in my pregnancy at 34weeks. My daughter was born by emergency cesarian (general anthestic, no time for epidural) at 36weeks. If I wasn’t in hospital and being closely monitored, she wouldn’t be here.

    She’s about to turn 1 and I’m so thankful to be in a country where we have outstanding medical support. It’s beyond belief that Janet can support free birthing given her experience.

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  29. Mumofone

    Its really easy
    High Risk = Go to hospital
    Low Risk = choice to homebirth WITH midwives or a birth centre!!!

    I had a pretty traumatic labor and it ended with my body closing up shop and an emergency C Section. Could you imagine if i was not in hospital or i did not have medical professionals??
    My daughter would have gotten stuck, her heart rate would have dropped and you know what would happen next i do not need to think about it.

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  30. Jackie

    Pregnancy & birth is such a short ride on the Mummy trip, just bring baby safely into the world & get on with it, the next 20, 30, 40 years are what matter not how you want to birth, I find freebirthing so self centred its sickening.

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  31. Clare

    I visited a friend today with a 4 day old baby. I wanted to eat him up and take him home. Babies are amazing.
    I don’t understand free birthers, I would be petrified to be on my own or just with my husband.

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  32. green trees

    i cannot get my head around the idea of free birthing. SO many things can go wrong so quickly and many of these complications need a professional present to have a good outcome. there may also be a bad outcome but i still believe you are better off with others around you.

    i do think there is something to the primal knowledge idea. i felt with both my labours that i kind of withdrew a bit, it’s hard to describe. my husband and midwife were there but i was really focused and a bit off with the fairies, perhaps from the happy gas. i do know that i knew when it was time to push, without a doubt i knew – BUT was so glad to have a midwife there to confirm it was time. especially glad to have doctors there to remove the placenta when it wouldn’t come out. couldn’t have done that one on my own.
    i had great birthing experiences in a normal hospital environment. it is possible.

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    • Ladybug

      I went into my primal zone, without drugs, and like you I had 2 great birth experiences in a hospital.

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    • brightrfish

      Absolutely! During both my labours I did the same – I looked inside myself and was mostly oblivious to what was happening around me. I don’t remember anything about knowing it was time to push – the opposite, in fact: I remember thinking during both that I couldn’t stop pushing if my life depended on it! The births themselves were both natural and mostly drug-free; however I haemhorrhaged after both and am SO thankful for the presence of incredible midwives and great obstetricians to save my life. I birthed my babies in two different hospitals. Both were fantastic. I am NOT against homebirth: but only for low risk pregnancies and attended by at least one midwife who is trained and has access to equipment that the average person doesn’t. Freebirthing is selfish (the baby is a person too – did anyone ask the baby if they preferred to die rather than have medical help?) and dangerous.

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      • Kris2040

        We need more stories like this to counter the horror stories put out by the loonies trying to take people away from hospitals!

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  33. anon

    100% agree with you mia – why, why, why would you ever risk the safety of your children, but if we’re going to have the debate lets have full disclosure of all the facts

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  34. Stacey

    I wonder if any of the husbands or partners of these freebirth women had gumption enough to insist on some medical supervision or intervention? I get the “it’s the woman’s body” argument, but all I could think of was how there would be NO WAY in hell my husband would have agreed to freebirthing any of his children or homebirth for that matter. Sometimes mothers don’t know best, obviously.

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    • kateb

      It always makes me think of my 6 year old telling me why couldnt we drive on the other side of the road, it was our car after all!!!!

      There are many things we would like to do, we are restricted by the fact that we cant do things that affect other people. Surely a bay is “another person”.

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  35. alliekat

    Well, Mia, I have to say I am an advocate for homebirth, for birth preferences and all manner of things you have slammed in the past – and I have harshly critiscised you for your approach. So I will now say that I do agree that although a midwife attended low risk homebirth is a safe and beautiful thing, I do feel that an un-monitored free birth (esp when pregnancy is also un-monitored at all) is highly risky and I feel very uncomfortable with it also.
    But I did also want to say that this is one of your first article on this realm of topics that I feel you have written with a measure of nuance, balance and calm and for that I commend you. That you state calmly why you are against the practise without being over the top or villianising the topic completely (or lumping home birth in too). So thank you!

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    • Bec Waterhouse

      I agree with what Allie has said, in fact I’d come to say the same thing.

      I’m very sorry for Janet’s loss, but I can’t believe she’s still advocating free birth.

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    • Hol

      alliekat, your responses are always excellent and well-thought out.
      Kudos to you!
      Oh, and by the way, totally agree with your comment ;)

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      • alliekat

        aw shucks really!? thanks, very kind of you, didnt think anyone followed my comments :)

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    • Mia

      Thanks Alliekat,
      We wanted to be very clear about the difference between freebirth and home birth. There IS nuance. I do understand that. And I know that many homebirthers are equally frustrated and appalled that anyone would choose to freebirth or homebirth during a high risk pregnancy.

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      • alliekat

        Thanks for responding, Mia! I am so grateful you are now accepting (or at least articulating that if you have always felt so) the differences between home birth and freebirth, hi and low risk. As you said, it is very frustrating for those who advocate and value safe and monitored home births and informed birth choices to have this kind of tragic and fringe group get put into the mix and muddy the discussion. not to mention the heartbreaking outcome for this mother and child… I cannot fathom it!

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  36. Anonymous

    During a birth, it is an extremely difficult time for mother and baby. Things can go wrong in the blink of an eye. Can things go wrong in a hospital? Absolutely and it does. BUT if something happens, especially suddenly, you and the baby can get almost immediate medical intervention and attention.

    Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would try and free birth. There are millions of women around the world who would do anything to get the medical attention we have access to in this country, especially for their baby during pregnancy and birthing.

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    • Arlycarly

      I think that the point isn’t so much that she didn’t want give birth in a hospital but that Janet Fraser rejected ALL medical care. From what I understand about the situation an experienced and qualified midwife could have saved Roisin’s life. I didn’t realise until I saw it in Mia’s article just how un-qualified those present at the birth were. CPR on the side of the birth pool?! To not even educate THEMSELVES about and put into practice BASIC emergency birth procedures? I just find that gobsmackingly unbelieveable.

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  37. Really

    She lost her bub, yet she still publicly claims that her c/s was more traumatic than her bubs death. Janet Fraser you disgust me.

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    • Shady

      Some context please. She says her freebirth was less traumatic than her c/s. The birth itself. She has never said that the death of her baby was less traumatic than her c/s.

      You should get your facts right before you tear a grieving mother apart.

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      • Anon

        “My birthrape with my first child is traumatic. My stillbirth was not.” – Janet Fraser

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        • Mia

          Oh my God…..

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          • Really

            She’s a pure narcissist.

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            • Anonymous

              Janet Fraser’s comments are offensive to those of us who have been raped.
              Birth is nothing like it – even a “bad birth”.

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        • freckles

          that just makes me want to cry

          Poor, poor Roisin. I wish you could have picked a mother with more brains

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        • Lisa

          How much more offensive can this woman be???

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  38. Julia

    Maybe it’s important for Janet to continue advocating freebirthing because recognising that it caused the death of her own baby is just too painful and horrifying?

    It’s scary that the way one chooses to give birth has become a source of identity and self expression. Hey lady, it’s not all about you. Being a good parent means you have a responsibility to give birth safely. I also wonder whether there are some naive women who have no idea what they are in for when they sign up for freebirthing? I’ve never given birth but from what I’ve heard it’s incredibly painful and overwhelming.

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    • Mia

      Julia I think you’re right. I have searched for some evidence that Janet Fraser understands that her baby could probably have been saved had she chosen a different type of birth.
      I’ve read her blog entries and I’ve searched her Joyous Birth website.
      But……nothing.
      Bec Sparrow and I have discussed it at length, trying to understand Janet’s motivation and we have come to the conclusion that she is in deep denial that choosing Freebirth was the reason her baby died.
      Perhaps acknoweldging that the practice is reckless and caused her to lose her baby would just be too devastating. So she – and the other women who passionately advocate and try to promote Freebirthing – choose to believe they are being persecuted. That it’s a witch hunt. It’s still all about them – in this case them being the victim not their babies…..

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      • beansbeansthemagicalfruit

        I’m not even sure she’s in denial. Would I think you or Julia was if they were acting this way? I’d lean to yes. But from the things Janet’s posted both before and after Roisin’s birth – coupled with the actual lack of preparation and knowledge she had about about trying to ensure her and her child’s safety – I think these are her beliefs. I’ve seen her referred to as a narcissist across various media outlets including here and I think that’s pretty close to the truth. Maybe an ill-informed narcissist would be a better description. Quite simply the fact that people donate money to her and support her bs is frightening to me. And she’s making those women who choose to freebirth at home after much research and preparation look like kooks. Because I do believe rational freebirthers exist… ones who have carefully chosen this option but arm themselves with research, preparation and back up plans. Still not something I’d do personally but I HAVE to believe they exist. However Janet Fraser is not one of them.

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  39. I.G

    Mia, I am not a freebirther, but any rational person could see that the reason for not listing the possibility of child death as a ‘con’ of free birthing is because it is not a possibility that is exclusive to free birthing. Unfortunately the tragedy of child death is a real one, when one births alone, and with medical intervention. Women in developing worlds may statistically be more at risk of dying whilst birthing, but is this endemic of home birthing, or is it a reflection of an overall lack of health care, access to clean water, exposure to sexual violence and abject poverty? It is true that many women in developing countries don’t have access to medical intervention, and yes, in an ideal world they ought to have that right. However, if this is about women’s rights, how come women who chose to give their child what they believe to be the best introduction to the world ostracized? If this is about women’s rights, why are women demonized for choosing who or what they want to be put inside their bodies?  In the broader political context of birthing in general, women and their babies are commodified, by the medical system and by the state. Think about the consequences of denying women choice over their bodies before you begin to demonize women who dare to choose.  In countries where homebirthing is criminalized, women’s rights are stripped bare in the name of protecting children, in circumstances which cause unspeakable trauma to women, their babies and their families and communities at large.  Unsurprisingly, there is nothing in your post which even alludes to the rights of women.

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    • contented

      I am wondering where the line is between women’s rights and the rights of the baby. Obviously that line is blurry at best.

      Speaking from the perspective of a woman in a first world country, and as someone who thinks that we are not there yet in terms of equality, I still think that if women paid less attention to their rights when pregnant or a Mother and more attention to the needs of their child, the world would be a much better place. Rights come with responsibilities…have sex with whoever, wherever you like, that’s your right. But when you fall pregnant, you are responsible for that child. It doesn’t negate all your rights, but in my opinion the needs of the child that you created trump your rights for a time.

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    • Emmy

      I.G, we deny pregnant women lots of things in the name of child safety. Can’t drink alcohol. Can’t smoke cigarettes. Can’t get on a plane in some places. Sure, maybe we don’t “ban” these things – but I can’t think of any mother who would WILLFULLY risk the life and health of her child. Arguably the most precious thing in the world. Why on earth would a reasonable person reject medical care? If you’ve had a car accident – do you lie on the tarmac and reject medical care because you believe doctors are out to get you? No. Pregnant women must think about more than their own “preferences”. And of course women in third world countries have higher mortality rates because of all those things you listed – but would they reject the opportunity for clean water, safety, nutrition and health care? would they reject a clean, safe hospital bed if offered to them? No. And why jump straight to unspeakable trauma when women are hospitalised? You know what’s unspeakable trauma? Being at home, alone, with no one to help you, possible dying with your dead baby in your arms.

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    • Emmy

      And furthermore, those women who choose “What they think is the best” are ostracised because they don’t know what’s best. Unless they have extensive medical knowledge, equipment and and extra pair of arms. They are making a selfish decision because they’re too precious to go to hospital and actually do what’s best for their child.

      /end rant

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      • Anonymous

        Emmy, I have extensive medical knowledge and have delivered babies by c-section and natural birth.

        I still wouldn’t free birth, and if my obstetrician said “c-section time” I wouldn’t argue with him either.

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    • Mia

      Hey I.G,
      That’s like saying the chance of crashing your car while driving sober is the same as while drunk. Because in both instances, you’re in a car. And cars crash.
      I’m sorry but that’s a ridiculous argument.
      And the rights of women? Interesting.
      My own feeling about this is that once a baby reaches the age of viability and assuming the mother wishes that baby to be born safely, the baby’s life should be placed above the mother’s wish for a particular ‘birth experience’.

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    • Mrs K

      “Unsurprisingly, there is nothing in your post which even alludes to the rights of women.”

      Unsuprisingly in your post, there is nothing about the babies right to have a life. Birth isn’t just about a mother. Infact, becoming a mother, everything is no longer about you. It’s all about the baby/child. The mothers wants, needs and life go on hold for a while. That includes when a mother wants to birth in a way that presents the biggest risk to taking that new life away.
      That seems to be one of the biggest problems. The woman puts her desires of a freebirth ahead of the desire to provide a safer birth setting for the baby.

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    • Quokka

      Interesting comment – can you please refer me to the evidence that in countries where freebirthing is criminalised a direect outcome is unspeakable trauma to women babies their famalies and communities at large.

      Just the name of the journal, author and date will be enough. Thanks

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    • Quokka

      Hi – can you please give me references to the research that demonstrates that in a country where freebirthing is criminalised that it directly results in unspeakable trauma to women their babies and families and communities at large.

      Just the name of the journal, author and date will do. Thanks

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  40. Mz Chelle Belle Bennet

    Wow, that is just so wrong, very true, we aren’t living in the stone age, is indeed the 21st century. I don’t think I would have able to deliver both my children on my own, alone with no help or DRUGS! Was a very intense labour well up to nine hours each, I was grateful to have my family and friends with me as well as the mid wife’s, I had to get cut plus my son had the cord around his neck, the nurse saw it AFTRSas soon as his head came out, no way I would have know that! I had to get stitch up afterwards. It’s always wise to have your baby in hospital, am sorry for all mothers whom lost their child, it is sad to happen

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  41. JD

    I completely agree Mia. I cannot believe the ‘Pros’ they have listed! Parents need informed balanced information to make a choice about how/where they give birth and this website clearly does not provide that.

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  42. Sparky

    Give me medical intervention and lots of it, please.

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  43. Georgina

    There are stories of free birth gone wrong on the site. They are in private forums so that vultures like the media and hate-bloggers don’t seize on them and ridicule the grief or distress, as has happened in the past.

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    • Mia

      Hey Georgina,
      But this is absurd. ‘Vultures’? What about the women who arrive at the site looking for information about birthing options?
      What good is a locked forum to them? So the happy stories of freebirth are brandished loudly all over their websites but the bad news and risks are hidden away where nobody can find them let alone access them?

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    • Anonymous

      get real “Georgina” these stories are in private forums so NO-ONE will question the woman’s choice to freebirth… do this on JoyousBirth and you be banned for not being a feminist and supporting women.

      toe the line women… follow the leader

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  44. Anon

    Caesarean all the way. Childbirth is traumatic. I feel sorry for doctors who get blamed for a woman’s bad experience. Does anyone really expect it to be easy?

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    • CK

      I realise you many not actually mean your comment to be taken literally, but it still really worries me whenever I hear women speaking this way.

      Cesarian sections carry great risks to both the baby and the mother. A study several years ago revealed that babies born by elective c-section were 2.5 times more likely to die in their first month than babies born vaginally.

      The decision to schedule an elective cesarian shouldn’t be taken lightly, and I wish that more people were more aware of the risks associated (as well as those relating to epidurals and other, often unnecessary, medical interventions).

      All that said, I am all for medical advancement and had both my boys in a hospital, because that’s what was right for me. I did, however, choose to have a VBAC – which many people would claim irresponsible – however having done my research (and understanding the underlying reason for my cesarian), I had no reason to believe it unsafe.

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      • Kris2040

        Wouldn’t the stat about Caesarean babies dying have something to do with them likely having something wrong thus necessitating a Caesar?

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        • CK

          I believe the study referred to elective c-sections, as apposed to emergency c-sections. Would post a link, but it’s too tricky via the iPhone.

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          • Kris2040

            Elective covers all planned Caesars though, so again, does it not include babies who were identified as being in trouble anyway?

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          • M

            How are they defining ‘elective’? Because that term can encompass pregnancies which are identified as high risk with c-section deemed far safer than vaginal delivery. So even though they are vital they are still scheduled, so are labeled elective.

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            • SullivanthePoop

              Also, I would like to know when this study was done because all HIV positive mothers used to have elective C-sections before safe antiviral therapies were found.

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          • Ginny

            Elective just means it was planned in the sense that they had time to think about, eg you have a major placenta praevia so we will book your c/s for tomorrow, or you have a major placenta praevia and you are bleeding you we will do your c/s now.”….. Non elective or emergency

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        • CK

          Here is a link: http://romancathanachronism.typepad.com/ican_somerset/2008/06/planned-c-secti.html

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          • Dee of Adelaide

            I prefer the term ‘scheduled’ section.

            I hate the term elective generally. All sorts of operations are considered ‘elective’ that to the average person, they aren’t really electing to have!

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          • Jac Qld

            This commentary for this is on an anti c-sec website… and it declared the report ” may underreport individual medical risk factors.” it also stated: “It is possible, though unlikely, that the Caesarean birth group was inherently at higher risk, the authors said.”

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          • Kim

            I had an elective caesar because my baby had a chromosomal issue. She died as a neonate and would be included in a statistic on deaths following caesarian birth. I met many other parents with similar stories in our time in NICU. The issues prompting the caesar were the cause of death, not the caesar itself.

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          • Sue

            CK – that is not correct: babies have BETTER outcomes from cesarean section, at a cost of a small amount of risk for mothers.

            The link you have posted is from a journal sponsored by the American “natural birth” lobby group Lamaze.. The report did not control for the greater complication of hospital births – they were not matched samples.

            The fact is, vaginal birth carries a greater risk of injury and particularly of oxygen deprivation to the baby. Cesarean section is associated with a higher rate of a short-term respiratory condition called Transient Tachypnoea of the Newborn – which is almost always temporary and mild, and sometimies results in short-term observation and/or oxygen supplementation in NICU.

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          • Sullivanthepoop

            That article is seriously old and comes from a time when when every HIV positive mother had an elective C-section. There are newer articles that, one leave out most HIV positive mothers as only 35% now have elective C-sections and the rate of vertical HIV transmission has been greatly reduced, and two do not show a significant increase when looking at the same cohorts with other extraction methods.

            See, when you get your information from bias sources, they show you only the research that agrees with them, even if the data doesn’t really agree with them or the dates are off.

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  45. Jade

    I am going to be harsh – but what a stupid woman. Trying CPR on a soft inflatable surface??? How dare she. She took that precious little babes life due to her stupidity.
    I am normally a rational kind woman open to other peoples birth choices. But not having anyone present with ANY knowledge of things such as CPR is stupid pure and simple.
    Even in the days before the ‘medicalisation’ of childbirth there were midwives who know more than the average bear about birth. This women shunned all this.
    HOW DARE SHE my blood is boiling

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  46. Sandy

    Firstly, the suggestion that Mia Freedman is trying to turn dead babies into cash is callous and cruel, not to mention absurd.
    I mostly like to think that every woman has a right to her own body, but these cases are the exception. When a mother decided to freebirth, she is putting her childs life ar risk, and nobody has the right to endanger another persons life. Indeed , just as a drink drover chooses to get behind the wheel of a car, they are also endangering lives.
    My opinion could possibly be somewhat biased though, considering a hospital saved the life of my daughter, born at 27 weeks, so I do take full ownership of that.

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  47. LouiseB

    All of my bubbies would not have survied, had I not been in hospital with a very capable Obst who was a wiz with the long forceps. All go stuck, all had cords around necks with dropping heartrates the further they came down. Im very grateful to live in this day and age.

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  48. Kerr

    This is the first post where you have clearly distinguished between free birth and home birth. I think most of the ‘shitstorm’ is in defence of homebirth, rather than free birth as you have tended to lump them together.

    I agree with what you are saying in this article and i don’t think you will experience the ‘shitstorm’ this time.

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    • Urbane Fringe

      I agree – I think it was the conflating of home-births with experienced midwives in attendance with freeing birthing that caused some people to raise objections to Mia’s original article.

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  49. Bananna

    Surely the stats speak for themselves. Australia has 5.1 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births (2010 figures). Compare that to Afghanistan at (1261), Central African Republic (1757), Malawi (743), Chad (891), Sierra Leone (1044). 99% of all maternal deaths occur in developing countries (World Health Organisation). Presumably most of the women giving birth in these countries have no option but to “birth without any birth authority other than herself to rely on”. And yet without medical assistance and intervention available these women have nothing but their instincts to rely on and many – too many – lose their lives.

    The stats on infant mortality tell a similar story. Australia’s infant mortality rate is 5.01 per 1,000 live births. Afghanistan is 144.01, Sierra Leone 134.57, Chad 131.94. (WHO 2010)

    So it’s all very well to focus on the quality of the experience and sometimes that will work out. But childbirth is not inherently safe. For these evangelical “free birth” advocates, the experience of giving birth becomes the focus rather than the health of mother and baby.

    I can’t understand their priorities. Their arguments are illogical and irrational. In this modern age where the craziest ideas are available for circulation on the internet and can appear credible, I think free birthers are dangerous.

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    • Mel

      I had been meaning to look up those stats. Thank you. For me this is the most important ‘proof’ that hospital support it crucial.

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    • Anonymous

      You are comparing third world countries, some of them are war torn territories, to our advanced part of the world here in Oz? Seriously? Apples and oranges.

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      • Kris2040

        If you’re giving birth with no assistance though, what is really that different? Hygiene is the only thing that is different. But women in those places Bananna has listed have been giving birth under those conditions naturally for thousands of years too, right? I don’t think it’s as different as you say. The main difference is our access to top medical care. Which saves mothers’ and babies’ lives every day.

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      • Faybian

        I don’t actually agree with “not inherently safe” either. I’d go with inherently risky though. Inherently unsafe implies that it’s more likely to end badly than not, which even with the worst stats (1261 maternal deaths in 100,000 and 144 infant deaths per 1000 births) is clearly not the case.
        That said, I think freebirth is ridiculous.
        Kris, it won’t just be the hygiene issue, or access to medical care, although access to antenatal care is very important. Diet and nutrition are important to general health, as is the number of babies a woman has had and age of the mum during pregnancy.

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        • Kris2040

          But if they’re freebirthing, they’ve eschewed antenatal care as well, yeah?

          What in our diet would make us better at giving birth than someone in Sierra Leone?

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          • Anon!

            Awesome comment Kris!

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          • amandarose

            Starvation doesn’t really help

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            • Kris2040

              They’re managing to carry a baby though.

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          • Faybian

            Kris, if you’re chronically malnourished your growth and therefore pelvis would be affected. Yes, you may fall pregnant, but it doesn’t mean that you are able to push a baby out, or that it won’t come out puny or undernourished as a result, or that your own health won’t be affected as a result of growing a foetus.

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            • Sue

              Faybian – if the mother is malnourished, won’t her baby be malnourished and growth delayed as well?

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            • Faybian

              Foetuses are much like a parasite, in that they will receive as much nutrient as possible from the mother via her diet or whatever stores she has on her body. That’s why women that aren’t really that healthy can produce babies that aren’t too bad. If mum’s diet is totally inadequate, it will affect baby’s growth, not necessarily their development. Obviously there is a point at which a woman becomes so thin she stops menstruating, but it can take quite a bit to reach that point.
              It’s a similar thing with breastfed babies. Mum can be undernourished, but whatever goodness she is taking in goes to her milk. That’s partly why breastfeeding for as long as possible is encouraged in the developing world.

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  50. Amie C

    To think we watch documentaries of woman going through hell in 3rd world countries, we read books about the terrible trouble woman have giving birth. All these woman want is medical help – to survive and for the baby to survive. I had both my babies in hospital via C section (not my choice but I could have a section or die they were the options) to hear that woman call it “Birth Rape” to have a C section, pain relief, go to hospital is absurd! Hospitals deliver babies every day, they are medically qualified to do so. Yes some Dr’s are shit and midwives can be a bitch but to be such a control freak that you refuse to have any help or go to hospital is out of control behavior. I agree yes babies can die in hospital but honestly lets get real in the “old” days woman died in child birth all the time like in the 3rd world because there was no medical intervention and the mortality rate is a lot less now due to the medical system and the knowledge we now have no child birth. If I was a “free birther” my oldest son and myself would be in an urn on top of the mantle piece!

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