Em Rusciano.
by EM RUSCIANO
Hi guys!
How I’ve missed you all.
Sorry that I haven’t been around much. You see, I have been doing the radio show, getting separated (let us not make any eye contact over that one and move on to the next point) and preparing for my upcoming Melbourne International Comedy Festival show.
(Please come, for the love of God please come. It’s for the ladies, it really is. I want women there in their droves.. The Gays and straight men are of course welcome too. SHAMELESS PLUG! CLICK HERE TO BUY TICKETS! LOTS OF THEM!).
With all the seriousness of Daniel Day Lewis at a method acting convention – I thank you all from the bottom of my empty, black, broken heart for your kind emails, comments and messages re: epic marriage fail.
I am doing okay, the emotions seem to come in waves. Sometimes I am totally kick arse strutting down the street in my own private video clip and other times I see a family together and burst into tears. So, swings and round-a-bouts I guess!
I’M FINE OKAY GUIZE!
That’s all by the by, as I wish to discuss a different topic all together today. If you would all be so kind as to indulge me.
Chrissie Swan
I was driving to work this week and heard Chrissie Swan on the radio talking about how women are treated when they return to work after giving birth.
This interested me because, a) Chrissie is grouse and b) I have been through that experience twice.
A woman rang in and said: “I just want to be treated like everyone else. I want the same treatment that a man would get if he had been off having an operation.”
Wait. Really? What the what?
Instantly I thought: “Lady, the only operation a man could have that would even remotely resemble giving birth would possibly be having a watermelon removed from his small intestine, through the eye of his penis.” (Sorry, too far?!)
The thing is, I wholeheartedly disagree with my fellow sister.
Right!?
I think women who return to work after giving birth should be treated differently. I think they should be hailed as warriors returning from a victorious war.
I wanted a parade when I returned to work after giving birth. I felt that what I achieved was so fecking impressive, it deserved accolades.
I wished for and needed special attention considering the fact that every orifice was still leaking.
I wanted a magical room put aside for me, made to look like an enchanted forest complete with deer, where I could nap, cry and have grapes fed to me by topless hard-bodied men.
I felt the people I worked with should have (for at least a month) gathered and clapped as I arrived and left work everyday.
You see, in this situation, we are not the same as men – so why should be be treated as such? In this situation we as women are so far superior to them that the men should be made to bring us tea/coffee/gin and tell us we are pretty and smart and good at all the stuff.
Incidentally this isn’t a female vs male type situation. This is more a “you own that shit girlfriend and be proud of what you’ve accomplished” type of situation.
Seriously though, I worry that we’re getting so caught up in the work place equality business (which of course needs addressing, equal pay and all that. Rah Rah sisters are doing it for themselves. *Burns bra*) that we’re forgetting to give ourselves props when we truly deserve it.
In this instance, I feel the human who produced the new human should be given extra special treatment.
I understand that giving special treatment to a new mum in some work places it may be frowned upon and seen as a weakness. But those work places are stupid heads and will probably end up out of business and living back with their parents.
What do you all think? Do you think women should be treated like nothing has happened after they return to work from maternity leave? Do you wanted to be treated the same as a man at your workplace at all times?
Em Rusciano is the host of Mamamia Today on Austereo (which you should be tuning into at 3pm every weekday on the Today Network) and regularly appears on Network Ten’s ’The Project’. You should follow her on Twitter here and take a look at her website here. You can listen to podcasts of Mamamia today here.
Comments
147 Comments so far
I agree with Em!
I also think that people who don’t have children have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to working parents, especially their thoughts about mother’s working at home- hardest thing in the world! trying to do work and then having children come up to you every couple of minutes (more like seconds) asking you to do something, closing the laptop on you, pressing random buttons on the keyboard, needing your attention constantly. The most work (including housework) parents get done is at night when the children have gone to sleep and if the children don’t go to sleep until late those parents must still be suffering from sleep deprivation (a torture technique used for centuries in many different cultures) even once their children are sleeping through!
Maybe if every few months every parent took their children to work with them, then the ones without would have even just the smallest idea just how hard it is to work with children and would have a little more sympathy/understanding. Most mothers who work do so out of necessity to help provide food and a place for their child to live I think they should be helped and encouraged.
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I agree entirely Em!!!! Love your views in motherhood, especially your comments in The Herald Sun article today (13 April 2013). hope to get to your new show, good luck!!
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I worked shift work for years when I was single. Every single Christmas Day I was rostered on to work simply because I didn’t have any children. That meant that I couldn’t go back to my home town 180 km away and spend Christmas Day with my family.
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Are you kidding? How about the fact that, at least in my organisation, mothers returning from work get to leave at about 4pm every day while the rest of us (women without children and men) need to stay around until 6 to make sure everything gets done, or when a task is being assigned I’m more likely to cop it because the working mothers in the group may not be around at a moments notice, or the fact that they get to “work” from home a couple of days a week, all for the same pay.
I know these privileges aren’t available at all workplaces, and I know that the overall working day (both paid and unpaid work) of any working mother puts most other people’s to shame, and I realise that mothers are doing this on behalf of society not just as a personal indulgence, but the suggestion that they get a parade upon returning to work from the people who will be working 20 hours a week more then them for the same money (who also have families to support) grates a bit.
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Tammy this a wonderful blog post! It is so awesome when people appreciate all that you do.
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I agree with Em.
It’s fine to not give any credit to working mothers if you don’t particularly want women to work. But most women will have children at some stage and will probably need a bit of slack from employers/co-workers when that happens. Before I had kids I didn’t mind helping out co-workers who did (unless they were completely taking the piss) because I knew my time would come. If women aren’t encouraged to work then they are unable to build any financial security and unable to contribute their smarts professionally, and that is bad for all of us. Lots of women I know take part-time lower level jobs just so they can have some flexibility or extra support when they need it.
Since I’ve been back at work I’ve been shocked to realise that the main problem created by being a parent isn’t about my ‘official’ work but about the fact that I can no longer do all the *free* overtime I used to donate to my employer every year. Maybe I shouldn’t have donated it in the first place.
I think the unsympathetic attitude shown by non-parents demonstrates their lack of understanding of parenting and how hard it actually is. I have no issue with helping them out for any ‘caring work’ (parents/pets or house renovations) they have to undertake – when their time comes. We all need a bit of slack at some point.
Personally I think all parents should get a round of applause and a large coffee when they go to work (maybe just from the other parents) on any day ending in ‘y’.
Note – I am referring to slack as in ‘loosening the rope’ not it being ok to ‘be slack’.
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Treated differently yes women who have children are treated differently when they return to the work force. They are treated like our brains fell out when we gave birth. Like we are going to ditch our responsibilities at work and nick off all the time to attend to our kids!!!!
I am greatly offended if someone treats me differently just because I gave birth twice now! I am still me brains and all. I still give 110% when I am at work and if I can’t I won’t work full stop. I don’t want others to pick up my slack or let anyone down. I want to be treated as a fellow colleague.
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I am returning to work in three weeks after having my second baby. I am scared, tired, worried and generally stressed about how I will cope with working and keeping the family going. I am mourning the loss of time with my two boys and worrying about how they will cope being cared for by my beautiful day care workers. I am sad but I know that this is what I have to do to keep our house and feed my family. I dont want special treatment, just a bit of empathy when the morning has been hard, when there are tears from missing my kids and when I have to miss a day when one of them inevitably get s sick. I dont want sly comments from those who dont have kids and who think this is an easy out, a good excuse or who thnk I am getting special treatment. It is so hard on so many levels. I just wonder when we are all, men and women, going to support each other in these small battles, so life is a little easier.
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I feel for you, and I hope that your adjustment to work gets easier over time and your co-workers have a little more compassion to your situation.
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This is such a subjective issue, all depending on the attitude of the employer, the new mother, the co-workers, and the demands of the role itself. Every one different. A debate on this – as it seems to be – could never be won as it’s not cut and dried.
In a 12 year period of pre-mum career I was genuinely happy for a new mother / return to work mother / working mother, and just did what was required at at work, went home and lived my life. Then when it came my turn I had the attitude I displayed returned during a shocking pregnancy which required a lot of (offered by employer) leniency and time off. So that was my experience.
Saddening to see the vicious tone of a lot of comments on here.
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Not when ‘special treatment’ involves your role being changed, responsibilities being decreased and being treated like you are now somehow impaired. I used to travel internationally for my job every few months. Since returning from my first round of mat leave two years ago I’ve been sidelined and haven’t made a single representational trip. Needless to say I will not be sticking around for more of the same after mat leave for number two that is due in a matter of weeks.
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Oh my….I find myself in TOTAL AGREEANCE with you Em. Lay out the red carpet adorned with flowers and beautiful soft music. Provide hourly massage and pampering and the finest food and clothes in the land. (Slight over the top description) but just for a moment to be treated and idolised for such an achievement would be heaven…Women need to be treated like God(esses) because we did actually create a life didn’t we? Rather than feeling that it is either too yucky or uncomfortable to acknowledge men need to chant and adore this miracle maker. If a man was the child bearer, I reckon he would deemed a sacred lord of some sort and treated like a king for years to come. That’s where it probably does come down to perspective. Women tend to get the raw deal here. Let’s raise the bar and give the woman something to feel adored and revered about. Whilst it is an amazingly challenging and difficult thing to go through, it is also so enlightening, surreal and beautiful….treat the lady like the princess/goddess that she deserves to be….even just for a day. The world would be a better place. Aaah if only…
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If the world can kiss a footy players ass for scoring a goal, why can’t a new mother get some extra attention when a baby is born. It really isn’t fair, is it?
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I am sure new mother’s are getting all the attention they need from their husbands / family members.
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I disagree Em…it’s nice if people ask how things are going with the baby, just as I ask how they/their partner/pet dog are…you know, the small talk and chitchat that shows we care about each other, even if we are “just” colleagues, but I don’t expect anything outside of my normal workplace entitlements.
This may get a little rant-y, but I really am tired of the old “pick up the slack” line. There are good workers, and there are bad workers, and they don’t fall along parent/not-parent lines. I had 10 years in the workforce “picking up the slack” for others before I had kids, and while some of those had kids, others did not, and the standout was one boss who rode her horse in the mornings, arrived at 10, had a 2 hour lunch, and left at 5, whilst being paid as a fulltime employee.
I may work part-time, but I’m paid part-time as well. I leave early, but start early, do a few hours on Sundays when I’m under the pump, log in from home to keep on top of my emails on days off, and my employees/bosses know they can contact me at home if anything urgent comes up. At the end of the day, as long as I’m doing my job to a high standard and working the hours I’m paid for, my workplace is prepared to grant me some flexibility in how I achieve that.
As for “me time”, well as Kate said below, all employees (at my workplace and an awful lot of others) have access to generous leave provisions to travel, try out a new career for a year or two, adopt a child, or just alter their working hours to start early/late to go to the gym, take the dogs to flyball training or whatever.
I think a lot of the ill-feeling directed at mums in the workplace is based more on perception than actuality, with many (not all) becoming more efficient through necessity…as I said above, there are good and bad workers of all stripes. And there’s that saying “If you want something done, ask a busy person”.
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I know this is tongue-in-cheek but women shouldn’t get any special treatment / fuss made because they chose to have a child. You AREN’T special because you have done something millions of others have.
It’s also irritating to me, as a “childless person” to pick up the slack while others are leaving early to rush home to kids, etc. I’d like to leave early to go to the pub or something but it ain’t going to happen.
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Exactly.
I’m childless and hate having to do extra than parents in the office!
I understand their priorities are different than mine.. But sometimes it seems they don’t understand that their children aren’t on my priority list at all. Getting out on time is..
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Agree, you havent made ‘a little miracle’ because you can open your legs.
“thousands of miracles happen daily in trailer parks”.
You are not a warrior, you havent survived a war, you are a human being who has done something millions do daily, get over yourselves!
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It’s great that my co-workers have had a child. Wonderful. But whilst they are standing around yapping about it, ducking off to attend to his/her needs and have shortened work days all over the place…who is picking up the slack? Me. And it wears thin. If you aren’t ready to come back and be a functioing member of the team then please, step aside a while longer. This is the WORK force. So WORK.
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There’s some real visciousness in our office around women taking maternity leave and it comes from women. I genuinely don’t understand it. Our workplace has generous entitlements – if the man was the primary caregiver he’d get the parental leave. And our non-primary care givers get a short period too. Adoptive parents are treated as equally as birth parents. Then we have very generous study leave entitlements, leave of absence options, long service leave accessible early, flexible work options, carers leave etc. If someone wanted to take leave to follow a hobby, travel the world, start up a new… i don’t know what, whatever. The fact is they whinge about parental leave but don’t use their banked up long service leave, or make use of flexible work options. It baffles me.
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Well said!! Totally agree Kate.
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I want to work where you work. Sounds great
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Compasion… Where has it gone? Do we really just want to leave everybody to deal with their own stuff while we only take care of ourselves?
We all come to this world in the same way and women that have just delivered another human being or looking after a baby deserve to be treated differently. It’s the nature’s way and no, we are not equal at that point of time. The women are vulnerable, sore, tired, scared and brave. Surely as a society we need to recognise that and HELP THEM OUT. Whichever way we can.
Surely we all agree on that? Surely we haven’t lost the plot on one of the most basic rules of survival?
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As an small business employer, I just want someone to do the job I need done. Your personal and home life has nothing to do with my business. You dont care when I, as the business owner, have issues at home. You dont offer to work longer hours for free and take a pay cut because of anything in my life. Why do I have some obligation the other way around. Why do I have to treat you special over and above any other worker, just because you have done something that, lets face it, close to half the worlds population has done at some point.
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As an employee of a small business, my boss and co-workers are my second family, we have to spend alot of time together at work and we all care about each other as we all compassionate people. Your personal and home life usually does reflect on your work whether you want it to or not, we are all human beings not robots. As the saying goes happy worker is a productive worker, so it would be in your best interest to keep your employees happy and when people are not so stressed about home and work they are usually happy. And of course I understand that you need to run a business which is your lively hood so of couse I mean within reason.
We had a staff member who give birth and she went on leave, no dramas we all covered the work load and were excited for her. Months later my boss’s wife had a baby and he stayed at home for a while with his family, again no drama we covered the work load and were excited for them too.
Yes, there are millions of other women who have given birth and many who have done it more than once too, but you only have one chance to live that moment and plus you need time to recover (and if you don’t know what there is to recover from I suggest you research so you have some sort of an understanding) does not matter who you are employee or employer. I feel for you if you do not have employees that care, but then maybe it refects on the management….
How about we all stop being so selfish and have the ‘What about me’ mentallity and treat people the way we want to be treated.
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Agreed! I work in a small beauty salon and we all support each other/pick up the slack when others need it. It’s called teamwork and makes going to work so much more enjoyable and much easier
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I don’t agree. I provide support to my partner, my family, my friends. I don’t have the energy to extend support to a colleague who has chosen to have a child, nor do I think it should be up to me to treat new mothers with reverence. Sorry. I just don’t care.
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I disagree completely, I don’t have the time or the energy to care and why should I? Would they care if something was going on in my personal life and I needed them to cover for me at work? No, they wouldn’t.
Note, I am not talking about family and friends here, just colleagues.
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If you can’t handle paid work how the heck do you manage at home? For me, going into work two days a week is so much easier than being home with my twins. However I’d still rather be home with them but that won’t pay the mortgage.
What would be hard is if they were strapped to my back or body AND I had to work like that. We have it easy in Oz and we need to remember to be grateful we have kids coz we wanted them, grateful if they are healthy and thankful we have a job if we need it.
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I don’t think it’s right that mothers should be treated any differently from anyone else in the workforce. I don’t agree with maternity leave as this is discriminatory against older workers and men. You want kids fine stay at home and look after them your choice why should you get paid to do it. You say you want equal rights but you expect your rights to be more equal than anyone else’s
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Really Sally, maybe back in your day women could afford to stay home and look after children, but in the 21st century it’s not affordable for a lot of families.
Maternity leave is not discriminatory (because men can take it too!) …..it’s just another “support” system to help struggling families get by. Older workers have already raised their children and their children are old enough to look after themselves therefore why would they need mat leave?
Most work places have sick leave, study leave, carer’s leave, long service leave and annual leave…. I dont think older workers should be crying poor me!
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Come off it it’s all about greed big houses big mortgages no common sense. Back in my day really ? Being only 28 with 3 young children I was a bit offended by that. I work some evenings and my Husband works in the day so we take responsibly for ourselves no mystery there. We bought our house worked hard and paid it off before we had kids. What gives you the right to be treated any differently like I said greed.
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You know what Sally I agree there. Before my mum returned to fulltime work during the day, when I was a baby she worked at night as a waitress after my dad got home from his job. So she could be there for us while we were little during the day. People do have choices outside the normal expected ones, but I think some people are too snobby about what sort of work they will do.
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I dont have a big house, big mortgage, I live within my means but without mat pay (which was only 18 weeks) the option to have children would not have been there for us.
please just open your mind to realise some people’s situation is different to yours.
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Great idea Sally – why don’t we just get rid of all women who selfishly choose to bear children from the workforce altogether? It can be just like the good old days.
Then we can reinstate all the men to their rightful positions in society while their women stay home and rear.
Why didn’t anyone ever think of it before I wonder…. !?
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I think what Sally means is that people should choose to have children when they are able to independently fund the required time off, rather than have the state/their employer pay for it, which I think is a fair comment.
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Yes, I know full well what she meant, and I thought it was about the most reactionary comment on here.
Regressive views like this are the reason it’s taken several centuries for women to be ‘allowed’ to contribute to society as anything other than child rearers.
Only the fortunate few who have not had to worry about job prospects or finances throughout their child rearing years can afford these bigoted views in my opinion.
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Well I guess I got my terrible work ethics from my Mum who had 4 kids went to work during the day and Dad did afternoon shift all without any help from anyone so shame on them . When did it become an employers responsibility when you decide to have kids. It only makes employers not want to hire young women.So Im not scared to stand up and say what selish expectations you have. By the way my friend just had knee surgery and had to use 6 weeks of her long service leave . How is this fair ?
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Could you be any more condescending and self righteous? The economic reality is that we NEED women in the workplace and we NEED women to have children. The economy needs both to support an aging population and a negative birth rate. That is why we need to incentivise people to work AND have children through schemes such as Child Care Rebate.
Paid PARENTAL leave is compensation for the primary carer to cover the time they NEED to take off work to rear those children. Right now, the only way we are going to be able to fund our future social welfare bill is through immigration. Its not greed =- its a well established economic reality in this country.
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2 things – firstly, maternity leave is mutually beneficial. It’s your employer saying “ok then, I’ll loan you out to rear your baby for 6/12 months, but then I want you back. You’re mine!”. It recognises the employees particular worth to the organisation.
Secondly, you’re assuming that all maternity leave is paid. It’s not. There’s usually a paid component (14 weeks in my case), the rest of the 52 calendar weeks (in my case) is made up of accumulated rec leave, long service leave if you’ve reached your ten years’(I haven’t yet), and the rest is leave-without-pay.
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Being the only female at my work it was nice not to be treated like someone’s wife or mother but just me a person in my own right.
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after 7.5lb twins (each) born at 39 weeks naturally I wanted a knighthood, Oscar, and Primeministers privilages and applause by all people whereever I went, let alone breastfeeding them for 18 months. However, then the first world me remembered what all the rest of the world do every other day without sanitary conditions and relative comfort that our babies will be born safely and we will also surivive with prolapse or fistula. I guess I felt pretty humbled and lucky to be living in Australia where a public hospital offers women just that the majority of the time. Still I’m thinking the gold card for plane flights would be good…….
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Em, I have to disagree with you for the first time in a bery long time. Sense of entitlement much ladies? Yes, I’m a working mum of two and everyone has shit to deal with in life. With or without kids. Your colleagues may remember you for being smart, but not for using the fact you have kids to your advantage in the workplace. In my younger days pre-kids I remember a colleague who turned up to work super early and left early to pock up her kids every day. Until the days I started turning up even supe earlier and caught her coming in a few mins every day before the (well she thought) earliest arrivals. Then sat on her phone and made breakfast and coffee for an hour. Until she saw me in shock one day sitting around the corner. People remember this stuff. Or when you dump your work on a colleague who you think foesn’t have their own problems or responsibilities. The worst is when working mums have a sense of entitlement, not working around hours, but going on and on and on about the lack of sleep, poop, vomit. Noone really wants to hear about it. Tey are being polite. Deal with it. You ain’t better than anyone else.
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So well said. Working mothers are the first to dump their work on their colleagues if they need to leave early to tend to their sick child, but NOT ONCE has a working mother ever said to me, if you ever need to leave early for any reason, give me some of your work to do as you have helped me out in the past. I hate saying this, but working mothers are so quick to dump and run when they need to, but they never contribute anything back beyond the minimum of what they absolutely have to. Yes, I am childless, but I also have my own responsibilities and it would be nice that these are recognised instead of being told that I am the one who has to pick up the slack “because X has children and can’t do it”.
Side note – mums, why on earth do you insist talking about the contents of your child’s nappy – nobody wants to hear it!! I spent my departmental Christmas lunch last year listening to all of their mums discuss toilet training accidents for the entire meal. It was vile. How would you like your mother discussing your bowel habits?
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Wow. Stereotyping much? I am a working mum and do not expect special treatment, nor do I “dump my work on my colleagues”. I am a contractor allied health care provider and see specific clients that other contractors cannot see – other workers can not ‘pick up the slack’ for me – it’s all up to me! I do not discuss my parenting with anyone at work unless they are other parents who are genuinely interested. But thanks for taking one or two people and generalising about all working mums based on your limited experience. I cannot believe how judgmental and callous you are.
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So we want women to be treated the same as men… except for those times when we don’t want them to be treated the same as men?
If anyone at my work returns after absence for illness, injury, death of a loved one, stress or because they’ve just become a mother or a father I act like a human and show interest, compassion and cut them some slack when they need it. New mums aren’t any more special than anyone else I work with, sorry.
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Noooo, you don’t get it. Feminism wants to fix things that don’t favour women, while maintaining the things that do.
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Totally agree Miss Finance. Compassion should be shown to everyone. Mum’s aren’t any more special than anyone else.
And by perpetuating the ideas that mothers are these amazing heroes, rather than just normal people like they were before they had children – we are perpetuating the myth that mothers are ‘different’ and ‘special’, which can also put a lot of pressure on mums.
Mums are just normal people like everyone else. They are no more, no less, and should definitely not be treated differently.
Give them compassion if they are ill or stressed – but no more or less than you would give to any other ill or stressed person.
As I was reading this post I was hoping it was written tongue in cheek – the martyrdom of mothers has to stop or how will we ever reach equality!
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Parade for returning to work? I wanted (and deserved) a bloody parade just for getting up in the morning and achieving UNDERWEAR!
Getting up after no sleep, poop, vomit, screaming and putting a friggin’ FACE on, clean clothes and also managing to GET OUT OF THE HOUSE before lunchtime deserves not only a parade, but a medal and quite possibly good ole ching-ching CASH MONEY!
It was at least a good year or so before I was in any fit state to do anything other than supermarket shopping looking like I had stepped out of a wind-tunnel while dressed entirely in clothes that *could* almost be called pj’s.
I laud you working mummies! LAUD! With accolades too!
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Again with the “poop and vomit and no sleep” nobody ever really wants to hear about it. Full stop. I don’t sidle up to your desk telling you about my bowel movements or my husbands, so please, don’t tell me about your children’s.
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I’m sorry but I have to point the finger at employers here.
You cannot expect that when you hire staff that nothing is going to happen in their personal lives that may require them to have time off work, whether it be to care for sick family, maternity leave or caring for children. It is the nature of life.
No….. parents returning to work don’t need “special” treatment (likes cakes and parades) but they do need understanding and flexablity, at least whilst their children are young. Employers quickly forget the great work you did pre-child and focus on (for example) the amount of days you have off after you’ve had a child.
How can I help it if my child is in childcare so I can be at work, yet other parents are taking their children to childcare sick and infecting my child which then requires me to have time off work to care for them? I’m being judged by management and other employees! (yet another great debate).
It’s my choice to have a child you might say? Yes fine, but I dont judge your choice to not have children.
The world has gone and gotten itself too expensive and some mother’s have no choice but to work. And there is nothing wrong with mother’s trying to balance work/life/raising cildren. It can be done and it shouldn’t be frowned upon or discriminated against.
My point is that we shouldn’t be judging each other’s personal circumstances, if you need time off to recover from an injury, to care for sick family or to raise a child and you are a good employee who works hard when at work then you shouldn’t be discriminated against.
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The world has gotten too expensive, or rather, we all just have to have all the ‘stuff’ the Jones’ have. Our standard of living has increased multiple times over just a few decades. At the end of the day, it is mostly a lifestyle choice, if we are all honest with ourselves.
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Not everyone is trying to keep up with the Joneses, a lot of us are just trying to secure what our parents managed (many on one salary) – namely, a home, food on the table, a family if we’re lucky, and the occasional holiday.
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It’s not a life style choice to some “anonymous” it’s survival, lets not get our wires crossed, and lets not judge everyone’s situation with “presumption”.
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I agree here. Sure many people need to incomes to be able to survive. However I cant buy it when people complain they have to return to work quickly so they can maintain a lavish lifestyle. We had dinner with a couple recently who were complaining about the need for her to return to work, which she was sad about. And I was sympathising. Until in the next sentence she mentioned their overseas holiday planned for Christmas and the renovation on their house in a suburb where the average price is well over $2M. That is not necessity, thats just greed at your childs expense.
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I don’t think it is necessarily at “the childs expense”.
I think it’s fine if parents go back to work BUT I am sick of hearing people complain that they would rather stay at home, when it is obvious from their lifestyle that they could afford to if they really wanted to.
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I don’t really see how doing what we as humans have done for the last hundreds of thousands of years means you should get special treatment. Literally millions of people have given birth before you, and millions will continue to do so after you.
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Clearly you haven’t!
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Toughen up a bit, there are seven billion people on the planet so it’s not like it doesn’t happen every day.
Women’s bodies are made to carry and give birth. You weren’t sick, you were pregnant. Get over it and get back to work if that’s what you want to do.
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Well, I don’t know about you but pregnancy made me sick! Sick as a sick can be! For the entire 9 months btw. So I was sick AND pregnant. Not ideal.
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How many of those women end up dead or permanently physically damaged, to an extent that their day-to-day lives are affected? It’s not as though everything goes really well for all those women.
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I still can’t walk properly after two years and suffer ongoing pain. Still getting no sleep which has greatly affected concentration and memory. Some ladies bounce back faster than others. I am exhausted. Hoping the next one is easier!!!
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So don’t have any more kids. Your choice.
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I agree with you, Anon.
I get so fed up with the “everyone else is responsible for my lifestyle choices and decisions” brigade. Sorry, but they aren’t.
You’ve had a baby, congratulations. Just don’t be surprised when you don’t get 76 trombones leading the big parade or the bronze statue outside the city hall to commerate the event.
This idea that you “deserve” special treatment doesn’t sit well with me. I just wish that people would stop playing the victim card every time there is a significant change in their life.
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I hope you didn’t write this on your Mother’s Day Card.
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I don’t know about you, but I don’t write “thanks for squeezing me out of your birth canal” on my mothers day cards. Giving birth isn’t the issue. It’s a function and a fact of life as a woman who wants kids.
My mum gets “thanks for looking after me so well” and “I love you”. My appreciation of her uterus doesn’t really factor into it… because that’s kinda creepy.
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My comment was tongue in cheek in keeping with the tone of the article.
“thanks for squeezing me out of your birth canal”…. Nope, I can’t say I’ve ever written that on a Mother’s Day card, or even thought THAT actually. I’m guessing you are joking too, right? That’s certainly not the first thought that pops into my head when I think about giving birth. I’ve always thought the birth process was pretty special actually ;P ha
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Can I just pause here to give massive props to my 98% male workplace? When I was up the duff they treated me like a princess. I had a car park allocated right by the building. They let me wear comfortable shoes instead of my uniform pinchers. People brought me lunch and cake and cookies. I was allowed to take Thursdays off every week (I was getting tired from all the cake, alright?) and nobody said a word about it. Not one whinge. And then when I actually left to have the baby, I was given a $100 gift card and 12 months maternity leave. And the boss had a small facial leak when I rang him after the delivery, he was so excited about the baby.
And I didn’t ask for ANY of it. (Oh, alright, I asked for the shoe swap thing. They probably wouldn’t have thought of that themselves. But that was the impetus they needed to independently decide to move my car park.)
Army for the win! They know making people is amazing. (No comment here on their “family friendly” policies once the baby is out, that’s a whole other story!)
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I have also been very well supported by my male colleagues through 2 pregnancies, including a male boss. The only nasty remarks I got were from females.
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I chose my Obstetrician simply because he was located in the city near my office so checkups would be easy for me to manage.
Another woman in my office was pregnant at the same time and her Dr was in Randwick. Her boss constantly made horrible comments to me about how efficient I was managing my check-ups yet each time she had a check-up she was missing for half the day.
I just kept telling him that nobody can control with their Dr has to go and deliver someone elses baby!
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Really hate ‘up the duff.’
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‘We’re pregnant’ is worse! My reply is ‘really? Quick better sell your story to Womens Weekly if you’re both pregnant!’
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I understand that a lot of this article is tongue-in-cheek, and whilst I definitely make fuss of new mothers returning to work – because I know that they will appreciate it – a thought should be spared for the people who either haven’t chosen to, or can’t, have children. That is, we need to remember that parents have made the choice to bring (yet another) child into the world – and they shoulder the responsibility for this. Unfortunately the non-parents in the workplace often shoulder some of this burden: picking up the slack when the mother’s on maternity leave (if the organisation hasn’t replaced them) and even on the mother’s often interrupted return to work.
I understand that parenthood is the toughest job in the world and all that, but it’s one that has been signed up for by the parent, not the colleagues.
Gosh, I know I sound bitter, but I guess as a non-parent I do feel a little envious that I can’t take time off for a project/obligation of my own (such as study, volunteering, looking after sick parents etc).
I saw a talk on Big Ideas recently that suggested every working adult should be entitled to a maternity/paternity/carer/volunteer leave: an entire year that they can either spend rearing their own child or contributing in some way to civic life. This would obviously be much more inclusive and wouldn’t penalise people who choose not to or who cannot have children of their own.
Does anyone know whether people who adopt children are entitled to parental leave?
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When you adopt a child, one of you need to be stay at home at least for the first year.
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Yes fortunately adoptive parents are not discriminated against when it comes to parental leave, and yes in at least some situations they need to commit to full time care (one parent or both) and cannot return to work until the child has been home for at least 12 months.
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I’m thinking about adoting my partners’ son purely for the sake of getting 14 weeks paid adoption leave. Can you believe i? – it’s actually allowable
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I just hope you’re joking.
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I’m an adoptive parent and, in my case, the policy was that the child had to be under 5 at the time of placement to get the full 12 months parental leave. Depends on the employer and their parental leave policy. Not sure about legislative requirements.
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Adopting a child should be more than just a money transaction. If that’s the only reason you are thinking of doing it, then don’t. That little boy is worth more than 14 weeks paid leave.
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I know people who adopted a child and part of their arrangement was they had to have one parent commit to being at home for 3 years. It was several years ago so things may have changed.
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In our case it was 2 years, but it’s not enforceable, just highly, highly, highly recommended given the child is being planted into a new home environment/new bonds are being made/ old bonds a being left behind etc. When you go through the adoption approval process this is discussed heavily with your assessor.
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It worked well for our friend as she used her time at home to start a small business and says it took her working life in a direction she would have never considered before adopting and leaving her office job.
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Actually, you can get carers leave to look after sick parents.
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But isn’t this just incorporated into sick leave? I could well be wrong (must read my contract more closely!)
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It’s not at my workplace. Many types of leave are special in name only but come out of sick or recreation leave. Maternity/parental leave is specially allocated.
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I totally support this. I would love to have children but unfortunately this hasn’t happened for me yet. I work in a largely female team where there is much support given to women who are paid a full-time wage but regularly need to come in late or leave early, work from home, others have even been given an hour a day to breastfeed at work (in addition to a lunch break). These are all positive measures – but there is still the same amount of work to be done and it inevitably falls on the shoulders of those who don’t have children, who nonetheless have lives outside the office that are important to them. These women have (for the most part) made a choice to have children. If I ever have a child I don’t expect other people to have to compensate for that.
I have often joked (to myself) that in my next job I am going to pretend I have kids and put a framed photo of someone else’s baby on my desk so that I too am afforded some flexibility.
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yes, yes and yes!
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I like your style !
Thanks for the smile that you’ve given me.
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Yes it is really scabby when someone goes on maternity leave and they expect other staff to completely absorb that persons job.
Happened to me, I had to absorb half my boss’s job and the rest of it was handed to her boss. Which was great for me in one respect, gave me more experience and my authority level was raised (finance industry) making my job easier to do because I didnt have to wait for approval on things that would have previously been over my limit.
But the flip side was my arse was on the line if things went pearshaped which thank god didnt happen, I got no payrise, no thanks, no pat on the back. Heck even a glass of wine on Friday night after work would have been enough
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Or, on the other hand, when someone comes back from maternity leave and may drop to part time for a couple of years and is still doing a full time work load, mostly because the company won’t get other staff to help out, or bring in anyone new to help out. I know a few women that’s happened to. One of them even got work related phone calls from her boss while still in the postnatal ward.
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It’s a no brainer! Crazy cat managers & collegues that cry for “their” year off should have more respect because their own mothers pushed their big heads out and wiped their bums! How do they think they got here? Amen the welcome back parade and greater applause deserved if mumma still got her groove!
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Sorry, I just commented but wanted to add – can we stop making it a competition! “I should be treated extra special because I had a baby”, “Oh work is so easy compared to having a baby”, “I deserve recognition.” I know those comments are tongue in cheek but as a woman who works really hard at her job and would love a baby but doesn’t have one yet, it smarts!
Having kids is stressful. And I think you’re awesome for doing it. But being at work is stressful too. And the thing is – we can all be stressed at the same time (ahh, isn’t that lovely?!). Parents don’t have the monopoly on stress. I realise that while you’re on maternity leave you are working – you’re busy and sleep deprived and overwhelmed and it’s nuts. But while I’m at work I feel the same. I want to be recognised. I’d like a parade when I do something awesome too!
So I promise never to refer to you being on holiday when really you’re home with a baby (that may or may not be the devil) that hasn’t slept for three days, if you promise not to say that I don’t know the meaning of being stressed because I’m in the office and babyless. And let’s agree that we are both awesome and both deserve a parade for whatever it is we’re achieving during our days. Deal?
http://thegoogleyear.blogspot.com.au/
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Deal! I get a bit sick of these whoa is me stories from fellow Mums – I’m a working Mum and try to stay positive and appreciative of being both!
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hehe! “woe”.
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I actually found having babies to be pretty breezy. I got my degree and entered the workforce after having my kids and found work to be much much more stressful. Of course, my chosen profession could have something to do with that. But still, I don’t really see the big deal, so you procreated, woop di doo.
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Disagree entirely. I’m here on my professional merits. No photos, no cute pictures. God invented a smartphone so I could look at my darlings all I wanted without having to share that with random colleagues.
I don’t hear all this palava from team members who are getting up all night with their ageing parents. Who are driving to their houses first thing in the morning and showering and feeding them and then coming to work.
It IS leave. You aren’t in the workplace rat race. No, you weren’t lying on a beach drinking a cocktail but indulge your colleagues for one minute in their fantasy of getting out of their cubicle before your sensitivity kicks in.
Any decent manager will check in on someone returning from long leave regardless of the reason. When my staff return from mat leave I enquire as to whether they are finding it ok, what I can do to help etc. But I do that in all situations.
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Has anyone else noticed the correlation between amount of kids photos and artwork on workstation walls and time spent in the office?
The more photos and art they display the less time they actually spend with their kids. It’s a bit like, who are you trying to convince?
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Oh no you lose me there anon. I know that different people have different levels of comfort blurring the work and fmaily lines. Mine are resolutely clear. I didn’t even tell my colleagues what my two weeks annual leave was for ten years ago when I got married !
Working parents love their kids and spend time with them – whether they do the ‘picture on the cubicle wall’ thing or not.
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Dee, take a fricken’ holiday. Don’t make me break in to ‘when you’re on your death bed’ platitudes.
Because, I will if I have to. Take a holiday. Somewhere nice.
Where people rub you down with exotic unguents.
Where you drink alcohol from large pieces of fruit that have been hollowed out.
Before you’re hollowed out.
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Can we stop equating ‘time in the office’ with ‘productivity’…I know PLENTY of Gen Y’s who sit at their desk for 40 hours every week….surfing facebook, twiiter and all other crap. I have found that working mothers are so much better at organising their time and their workload because they understand the impacts of not being organised. If they arent meeting KPIs, then its up to management to identify it and manage it out. Otherwise, could you be making generalisations based on very little evidence???
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We don’t treat Mums (or Dads) like nothing has happened in our workplace when they return to work but I think they are pretty glad about that! We are really so lucky in our office because parents can return to work part time, they can come in late/leave early for school runs, they can work from home if kids are sick. To be honest (and please don’t all stab me) I have moments where this really irks me because while the Mums and Dads in our team can run out at 3 to get the kids, I have to stay back until 8 to finish up urgent work that’s come up.
But then, I remind myself that they’ve got to go home and deal with children (fun but hard work!) while I can focus solely on myself, they miss out on opportunities because they’re out of the office and I am being paid for full time work. One day I’ll have a baby and I know I’ll be thankful for the same (unequal but kind of cool) treatment.
On a side note, one of my favourite American blogs mentioned how awesome Google was because they’d introduced 5 months maternity leave for mothers and they could take it however they wanted (ie before or after the birth). Considering that there is no extra leave or money from their government on top of this, it makes me realise how (mostly) good we have it in Australia…
http://thegoogleyear.blogspot.com.au/
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I too would like to know the location. Perhaps the village can come tonight and get up every hour with me.
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Lordy, I would have been happy to return to work. First my manager called me on mat leave and told me that I didn’t have weekends and my life was one big holiday.Then he called me in and told me my role was redundant but I was welcome to apply for an almost identical role, but there was no room for any flexibility and I would be required to spend 50% of my time interstate. Yeah, that works. Why did I have a baby again? To spend no time with her?
Somehow I doubt that tool would have given me any sort of acknowledgement for having a baby, let alone a ticker-tape parade. But yes, I think Mum’s returning to work do deserve that acknowledgement. Dagnabbit, they’ve done something pretty darn impressive!
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But.. it’s really NOT that impressive to a lot of people.
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When I returned to work after maternity leave, I had a coworker say to me “I wish I could have a baby so I can get a year off work.” Yikes!
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What is wrong with that?
I think that all the time!
The ONLY reason I’d consider having another baby would be for six months off work lol. Which is clearly a very bad reason, which is why we aren’t having any more!
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The comment might have been delivered rudely, and if so, then it implies she’s a bludger.
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But I do find it interesting, when its women looking after their kids on maternity leave its recognised as hard work. But when its a stay at home mum looking after her kids its just housework and looking after children and she’s lazy and probably watches TV all day when she’s not having coffee and going shopping.
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So. True.
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But who thinks this way? I certainly don’t, and surely other women would understand that mothering IS work.
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Its regularly commented on.
Even when women say they’re going home to do the second shift they get sympathy and admiration.
When a stay at home mum does the same thing its just dinner, bath, bed.
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I’ve found that many women who don’t have kids of their own or have regular contact with other people’s children don’t seem to understand how much work is involved in raising children.
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Nah, I only think that about stay-at-home mums of school aged kids.
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You’ll find most stay at home mums with school age kids who dont work would like to but cant find jobs that allow them to see their kids off to school in the morning and be at home for them in the afternoon so they can take them to swimming lessons and soccer training.
They dont need or want fulltime work and dont need to be taking after school care places from families who do need it, so really many women cant win whatever they do.
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Jorie, I was judged constantly as a bludger , stay home mum of 3 school aged kids. What no one realised was that I was working nights at a retirement village and we had our own small business which I worked at from home.
Mornings,afternoons and school holidays I also had my sisters 2 kids. During the day other mums would just drop in for a cup of tea because I didn’t have a real job.
On days when I was working away from home I diverted my home phone so the school could always reach me if need be.Yes that means no mobile phone back in those days.
To this day people probably think of me as that bludging stay at home mum who didn’t always make it to school events.
You should never assume you know what it’s like in others lives.
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Em Rusciano you may have heard it before but just in case during recent marriage issues you may have doubted it. YOU TOTALLY ROCK. Whether or not I agree with every point in this article (some I do, some not so much) for so many reasons it’s still just FAB. Well done.
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Don’t agree at all, I know some of this is in jest but really women who give birth should be treated as superior beings! I think not, why can we not recognise the role that people play in society regardless of whether they have had children.
It takes a village to raise a child not just one person
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reall-lay? A village? Sounds Dreamy! Can you provide me with the coordinates of said village, i need help!
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It’s a saying Kristen! The point is child raising is not ALL about the mother this seems to be forgotten often
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Haha, brooke – in this situation it is all about me & hubby – no village here! He works 6 days, I am on leave with bub. My family is interstate & his is not helpful as much as I would love them to be all “village” and help us out sometimes.
It’s hard, hard work & god knows what we will do when I return to work, if i can afford to return.
No point in bringing up a “saying” if there is no weight behind it.
Note: I know this situation is not everyones, & that some people do have their village, which is fab!
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Maybe we should support friends and family when they have children, and perhaps then help will be returned, rather than just expecting it to happento us when we choose to have a baby?
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So it’s her fault that she doesn’t have any help because she didn’t help anyone earlier?
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Funny thing is, J, i helped out my sister in law sooo much and in so many ways when she had her kids a few years ago & it hasn’t been returned in the slightest. I can’t help that my friends and family from back home aren’t here with me & might I say i most certainly would help them out with anything if I were able. It’s not a blame game. I’m just trying to illustrate that everyone’s story is different. No need to be nasty.
& Thanks Original Lottie
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That sounds nice in theory, but unfortunately I can tell you from experience that supporting your friends and family when they have kids DOES NOT mean the help will be returned. Even if you ask them for help.
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I wish that people would remember this when they get stroppy about other people parenting their children. I work in retail and had a mother get stroppy at me for nicely telling her child that $60 beaded purses aren’t for playing with.
Remember the village.
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The thing is that while this was true in the days gone by and is still true in some cultures, these days in modern culture the village has frequently gone AWOL. If you are a mother, you will no doubt be well aware of this already.
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The reality is that family help is a 2 way street. Often the giving involved to be able to take a night of babysitting far outweighs the $60 it may cost for a babysitter on a Saturday night.
I’m not complaining, but as someone who does have family help, when I hear people say they have no family support to help with their kids, they often have more freedom this way because they don’t have to honour their family responsibilities in return.
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Suggesting that we help each other out is not being nasty. I don’t have much of a support network around but then again I’m the one who chose to be a parent, not them, so I don’t expect it either. I do think though that if anyone is expecting it then they should be making it a two way street. We’re not matyrs as parents!
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You’re right, suggesting that we help each other out is not nasty. But I feel your delivery was.
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I was nasty? I’m sorry if I came across that way certainly didnt intend to.
I was simply quoting my experience and observation. I have friends who regularly complain they have no family support with their children, yet when their own parents who live nearby are sick they dont even go and visit them. Then they tell me how lucky I am to have family support but they forget that I actually spend time each week driving my parents to medical appointment and dropping in to have a cup of tea with them so they’re not lonely. Its give and take and some people with kids think their needs trump everyone elses in the family.
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If it takes a village, should that not extend to the people complaining about parents having to leave early/work from home/whatever mucking in and not whinging and bitching about having to do it?
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Oh God, I remember when I was about 22 and had no idea, asking a colleague who had just returned from 8 months maternity leave how her ‘holiday’ was.
She looked like she wanted to thump me.
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Haha, best comment on here!
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Yes, they really have no idea, do they? And that is apparent to me in the comments on this blog.
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hehe Em I don’t have children yet but I love your writing style and always read anything that has your name attached as well as listen to you on the radio, would love to see your show but am in SA
Hope your heart is on its way to a full recovery xxx
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I think the reason that women are still largely absent from boardrooms et al is that there is currently no acknowledgement or space made for child bearing and caring.
If there was a more supportive, flexible environment for mothers in the traditional workplace, there would be more mothers in it. Simple as that.
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‘Space made for child bearing in the boardroom’, lol, the mind boggles. What did you have in mind, a birthing bath next to the crystal cabinet and data projector?
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Oh come now, you know perfectly well that it wasn’t a literal comment.
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Lighten up Faybian, it’s called humour. It makes the world go around.
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Don’t worry, it made me laugh, WB haha
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Wow, really? I think new Mums get plenty of attention from family and friends, hopefully some interest from colleagues asking to see baby pics, but why would we need to be treated differently for doing something that so many have done before and is not related to work? Think about the woman that desparately wants kids but is single / unable to have them etc but keeps trudging on at work without any fanfare at all. I know this article is meant to be taken somewhat lightheartedly but let’s not give employers any more reason to discriminate against employing and promoting women.
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Yes agree totally, and people should be OK with NOT feeling fantabulous while pregnant and still working. We need to accept that people are not ‘human resources’, they are human beings who breed, get sick, get sad, have families to care for,etc….men too! None of us are robots!
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Yes I agree!
How about every employer hands the returning mum about 10 ‘stay home with sick bub guilt free’ cards. And while they’re at it a few ‘you can have crazy hair and spew stained clothes’ passes too. And maybe some ‘you can leave a bit early if you’re missing your bub’ cards. I could go on…
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I’m struggling to work out if your being sarcastic….
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I hope this is in jest!
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Sure, if the childless can have some “leave early to participate in activity of choice” cards, “leave early to help family member with something other than child rearing”, “leave a bit early if you’re missing your couch” cards etc.
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I think I recall hearing about something in the uk called “Doona Days” – basically a few days of the year where you can just say you’re not going in without needing to provide an explanation – for your own sanity.
Now I think we could ALL do with that, kids or no kids
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