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by JAMES WILKINSON
Is a stay at home dad allowed to take his two and a half year old daughter to the women’s toilet? She is the one doing a wee and she needs my help to successfully complete the process.
Besides the men’s toilets are absolutely disgusting and don’t want her anywhere near anything in that place.
In addition there is a limited amount of cubicles in the men’s as the majority of space is taken up with urinals. The stalls in the men’s toilets are generally only used for crapping in and for some reason a lot of men think that making a huge mess and not cleaning up after themselves is some kind of measure of masculinity.
Most blokes can’t aim straight and some don’t even flush and there is no way that I will let my daughter sit on those grubby things. I won’t even do it so why should she?
So why then, when I take my daughter to the ladies’ toilets do I get such death stares? Surely they can’t expect me to take her to the men’s?
“You can’t be in here.” says one lady.
“Why not?”
“Because it’s the ladies toilet.”
“She is a lady and she is the one who needs to go.” I say, pointing to my little girl.
“Well you still can’t be in here.”
“But who is going to help her? “
“Go to the parent’s room.”
“There is a line a mile long and she is toilet training. We can’t wait.”
“Well you still can’t be in here.”
“Then what do you suggest I do?”
“I suggest that you leave.”
“We could have been finished by now…”
What is the problem here? I really don’t get it. Surely women would be more sympathetic to a dad toilet training his little girl? Is there something that you guys do in front of the mirror that I am not allowed to know about?
I even try to talk a little louder so everyone can hear that I am with a little girl who is attempting to do a wee and that I am not some pervert trying to look under the cubicle door at their urinating vaginas or excreting poo holes.
I have come across this attitude a couple of times in public however confusingly the few women that I have asked directly have said that they would not mind at all??? I would be interested to hear more thoughts on the subject.
The only factor that I have not considered (until now) is cultural. As Australia is a multicultural society is there a possibility of me seeing an unwrapped Muslim woman in the female toilets? What would happen if that woman’s husband saw me come out of the ladies toilets?
Should I worry about such things?
The other aspect of this whole scenario that really annoys me is that my daughter understands every word of the drama. What is society teaching her about gender? You can bang on all you want about equality but this is where these kinds of attitudes are formed.
I can’t see any other reason why a dad can’t take his little girl into the ladies toilets when there is no other option. Am I missing something?
James Wilkinson is a stay home dad, the husband of a corporate wife, a writer and a musician. You can find his blog here.
If a father is in public with his young daughter, which toilet is it appropriate for her to use?
Comments
335 Comments so far
Do whatever is safest for your child.
I take my 10 year old son to the ladies if his father’s not present.
Trust no one.
If they want to go to the loo by themselves stand outside the entrance and train them to respond if you call out their name.
My heart goes out to the family of the little girl whose uncle let her go to the disabled toilets by herself, only to find out she had been molested and killed during an innocent trip to the loo. Full story at http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/family-metres-away-as-perth-girl-killed/2006/06/27/1151174202009.html
Her family were only metres away. When she didn’t come back, they knocked on the toilet door and it was likely she was being killed at that moment.
Trust no one.
James, you are doing the right thing by your child – no one else’s opinion matters – only your daughter’s safety.
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oh my god, that is HORRIBLE!
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Yeah I remember that being in the papers. I get that it’s extremely unlikely to ever happen again but I still have it in my mind whenever my kids need to go to the toilet and we’re out somewhere.
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Yep I remember it too and it’s never left my mind.
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I’m with you on this one – and I remember that news story all too well. My three children (now 12,10 & 8) have only ever gone into the ladies toilets with me. My 10yo boy still only goes into the ladies with me for that exact reason – I trust NO ONE with the safety of my children and hubby normally is at work when I’ doing the shopping run. I’d have plenty to say if anyone questioned me bringing my son into the ladies, so go for it James and good luck with the toilet training
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I’m with you on this one – and I remember that news story all too well. My three children (now 12,10 & 8) have only ever gone into the ladies toilets with me. My 10yo boy still only goes into the ladies with me for that exact reason – I trust NO ONE with the safety of my children and hubby normally is at work when I’m doing the shopping run. I’d have plenty to say if anyone questioned me bringing my son into the ladies, so go for it James and good luck with the toilet training
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I remember this case and it was probably the reason for a lot of paranoia (myself included).
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I really want to be ok with a Dad taking his daughter to the Ladies. But I’m not. I’m sorry. I wouldn’t confront a Dad if he brought his daughter into the Ladies while I was there, I’d probably smile and make him feel welcome because I really understand the young child/toileting/urgency issues. But I would feel a little uncomfortable.
I always hated, hated, hated it when my little boy went to the Mens by himself. After about the age of 4 he refused to go to the Ladies and if there were no disabled/parents toilets available then into the Mens he would march while I waited outside anxiously. He’s an adult now and I still get knots in my stomach just thinking about it.
It’s a complicated issue as I’m quite comfortable with transvestite friends being in the Ladies with me, and really, a Dad with his daughter is in a similar threat free category. And I’m kind of in awe of James being comfortable doing this – there’s no way my husband would have done that with my daughter!
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I’m a bit confused by this comment. You’re uncomfortable with James taking his daughter to the bathroom, but also uncomfortable when your son used the public bathroom alone without supervision?
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Oh James, you poor thing!
I totally understand your dilemma and must honestly say I’d probably be one of those women thinking you’d gone into the wrong section if I saw you in the women’s toilets. However, I completely understand your reasoning and totally agree with your decision and your reasons. In fact I’m thinking my husband should probably stop taking our girl to the men’s toilets!
But how to make the women that you encounter understand and accept? I’m not sure, but after reading this post I’ll be more understanding if I see a man with a child in the ladies.
I suppose stating your purpose in a clear voice to the first woman you encounter in the toilets is an option…
Either way, you’ve got my support brother!!
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I have no issue with Dad’s bringing their daughters into the ladies loo. I have boys and my eldest at seven does not want to use the ladies. Where possible we use family loos but if I have to, I will use the disabled or bring him in with me. To those of you that have an issue with Dad’s bringing their daughters to the ladies, at what age can a mum not bring her son into the ladies? At what age is it okay to send your son unaccompanied into the men’s?
A friend recently returned from Sweden and she commented in the fact that all public toilets were unisex and they were the cleanest toilets she has ever used.
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Why should disabled people, such as my son, have to be incovenienced and made to feel uncomfortable, because your son doesn’t want to use the toilet which is appropriate for him which is the ladies one? My two older boys used the ladies until I considered it a safe option for them to change to the mens. If you have a problem with the lack of toilet options available for your child then ask the relevant management for an alternative. It is so sad there is such a lack of understanding within the community regarding disabilities.
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So if men aren’t allowed to use the ladies toilets with their daughters, how is going to the disabled toilets right?
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If people feel uncomfortable because of gender then using the disabled toilets is fine – they are not gender specific. Also many disabled toilets have change tables so they also double as a parents room when a separated one isn’t available.
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The term ‘disabled toilet’ is a misnomer. They should be (and I think now in fact are) called ‘accessible toilets’. This means they are available for use by anyone with accessibility issues. This includes the disabled, men or women with small children, or a pram, or a double pram, or elderly people who may need to use the wall supports when going to the toilet. Unfortunately I think some disabled people react badly to other people who may have a legitimate need to use these toilets. I hope this can change when the name becomes more commonly used.
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Um no. Go to the parents room or the mens toilets, mums take their sons to the womens toilets so i dont see the problem with dads doing the same.
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Mens toilets are normally veeery different places to womens toilets (I used to work as a toilet cleaner). They’re dirtier, smellier and there are men with their bits out for everyone to see. I also think there are probably many men who would be quite uncomfortable at being seen mid-wee by a young girl.
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OK so if James had a son, the same age, where would he take him. Is the filth, dirty, smelliness in a mens toilet OK for toddler boys, but not for toddler girls?
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It is really confronting and scary to find men in the Women’s bathroom, I’ve been attacked on one occasion and propositioned on many by men Women’s toilets. If you’ve got a kid with you sure ok but just because you have a child doesn’t mean Women should assume you’re ‘safe’.
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It’s sad that you’ve been attacked in the toilet, but where on earth are you going to the toilet to be propositioned repeatedly?! I would say in my experience, this is super uncommon, and his daughters safety is just as important (and this is going to be a growing issue in the years to come)
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where are you going to the toilet to be propositioned by so many men? I’m 42 and never seen or heard men propositioning women at toilets.
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What a joke! We’re so uptight that we can’t let a Dad take his daughter into the ladies? I’m pretty sure they know we poo and wee so you don’t have to worry about them finding out. We should be supporting Dads to be Dads not running them down for trying to toilet train their children.
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Are you kidding? Hell no a grown man cannot go into the ladies toilet!!
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Why not Jayne? James might see a woman washing her hands, but other than that? It’s a bank of cubicles, not a communal change room.
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It is a safety issue Kate. You do not expect to see men in ladies toilets. Women, particularly older women, feel safer knowing that men just do not go thru that door.
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I think it’s something we have to get used to. It’s a great thing that men are out and about with their daughters more – never happened a couple of generations ago. This isn’t a pub, it’s a shopping centre. And yes, bad things happen, but they aren’t the fault of men taking their small daughters to the loo.
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I suppose I must be old fashioned, but I would feel uncomfortable if there was a man in a womens-only (rather than unisex) toilet. Not everyone responds to these things the same way.
Besides, it’s not like there are not good facilities there to cater for a man who feel uncomfortable taking his child into the mens. If we are talking about a shopping mall, there are other parent rooms, or disabled toilets which are wide and private. The author said that one of the reasons he doesn’t use those facilties is because he doesn’t like waiting in line!
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He didnt say he didnt like waiting in line, he said that his daughter couldnt wait in line because she was still training? read the post
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But a very young girl can go into the mens? Can’t say that I understand that logic.
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The priority here is not the adults its the small child learning how to use the appropriate toilet. Soon she will be able to go by herself as lots of women will be able to help her. If someone objects, ask them to help her!! It’s tricky but I will say this, we may be a mulitcultural society but we are STILL Australia and if muslim women have a problem let them find another toilet!!! Not the little girl!!
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Muslim women didn’t have a problem. He was just thinking of ideas of why it might be a problem.. but just because he thought about that doesn’t mean that it happened!!
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I’d imagine I’d be shocked at first but within .05 of a second (after me realising you’re simply a dad doing the right thing by his kid) I’d be fine with it. I’ve often wondered why most parents’ rooms only ever seem to have one toilet anyway? It is so impractical considering the amount of traffic they must get.
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I’d be surprised but not particularly bothered, in the end. What’s the harm? We’re all in cubicles anyway.
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Its not right to go into the ladies. He should either use the mens or if its too disgusting use the unisex disabled toilet. I used to use them all the time when I had my twin pram with me. I couldnt fit it into the ladies toilets anyway and I didnt think it was safe to leave them outside on their own. Once I came out and a man in a wheelchair was waiting. I apologised and he laughed and said my tribe of 4 made me practically disabled in public too
What a sweetheart.
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So it’s ok for you (a led body I’m assuming) to take your kids to a disabled toilet, but no ok for a dad to take his daughter to the Ladies??? Makes no sense. Ignore the stares James. Your child’s safety comes above all else.
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Sorry I think you need to consider that there are plenty of elderly women and women from other cultures who would be absolutely offended and embarressed by having a man in a womens toilet. Remember we do not all have the same views on these things.
And yes I do think its completely ok to use a disabled toilet if I am out with my 4 small children. Am I supposed to leave a twin pram and a toddler outside on their own while I take my other child to the loo? We are in there for 2 minutes max. If waiting 2 minutes to use the toilet inconvenices anyone (which it has done only once) I do apologise, but most people are understanding and realise that juggling several little children in public places isnt easy and keeping them all safe is my priority.
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so you’re inconveniencing other for a maximum of 2 mins because the safety of your children is your priority…
isn’t that exactly the same as James’ position?
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It’s a pretty big assumption to make that disabled people won’t mind having to deal with the people that able-bodied women are too precious to handle in their toilets – you know, they’re disabled, they deal with inconvenient stuff all the time right?. A bit arrogant and NIMBY-esque if you ask me.
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Disabled toilets are unisex. Womens toilets are for females. Mens toilets are for males. Yes, while I may not be disabled I would love to know how else you suggest we should have been using public toilets if I dont think its acceptable to leave my double pram and toddler outside alone as they will not fit into the bathroom. Precious? Obviously you dont have children or dont take them out in public with you to have the need to face such a dliemma.
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She said she couldn’t fit the pram into the ladies toilets, so what do you suggest she should have done?
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Exactly. Perhaps these people suggest she leave her kids outside the toilet (including babies considering she has a pram.)
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Seeing a man in the ladies restroom is confronting, you just dont expect it so I understand the ladies reactions, particularly older females. You say you dont use the parenting room as the line is a mile long but it is called a parenting room, not a mother`s room for that reason…anyway`s female toilets are notorious for line ups.
Part of toilet training your child is anticipation, not waiting until they tell you they are busting to go. You need to better plan your toilet breaks and join the queue.
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You’ve clearly never toilet trained a child – plan it?! Please.
I’m really shocked at most of the reactions here, i expected most people to say – oh please, of course you can go in there! It’s for your daughters sake – but a lot of people seem to be against the idea. I for one couldn’t care less if there is a man in there – as someone said earlier, for a nano second i would be surprised, because it’s not something you see every day, but as soon as i realised the man was with his daughter, i wouldn’t give it a second thought.
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Exactly! It’s called training for a reason.
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Ha ha! Have to say, before I read through the article I was on the other side. I thought that since the gender division is supposed to stop adult pervs from invading the other gender’s privacy, you should be going to the male toilets.
Now I feel bad for all the young boys (and old ones, for that matter!) that have to go to the male loos!
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James, I would be really upset of my hubby took our 2 and a half year daughter to the mens and I love “the she’s using it not me” concept. My dad was a single parent (before
familyrooms) and used to always take me to the ladies loo.
100% behind you!
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Oh for goodness sake people, grow up! What’s the worst that could happen? A man might hear you tinkle? It’s not like anyone is exposed in any way in the ladies room… My children’s father had this problem 20 years ago, and we’re still making a fuss about it?
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Had this very conversation yesterday, I’d much prefer my hubby take our daughters to the ladies. No way do I want them in the men’s!! He didn’t feel comfortable so I went but if he was alone I’m sure he’d go to the women’s.
I don’t understand people getting shirty about it, everything private is done behind locked doors.
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Try finding a disabled loo…try fitting a pram into any to any other bathroom stall. But the ladies loos are ladies loos for a reason, take her to the men’s.
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If I’m honest it would be a surprise seeing a man in the toilet. I’ve used men’s loos at a pub when younger and have never seen filthy loos, but it’s interesting that women don’t take their sons into them. I’ve always just used the parents room loos or the handicapped toilets. There can be lineups for those though. I think there needs to be more than one toilet in the parent rooms,
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I think there needs to be more disabled toilets especially. Everyone seems to think it’s ok to use them, just like people seem to think it’s ok to park in disabled spots too.
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I’ve never thought disabled toilets were for exclusive use by disabled persons (unlike disabled parking), I just thought they are a toilet that can be accessed by someone in a wheelchair. I don’t see why they shouldn’t queue like everyone else if it’s a bit busy. Clearly not in high volume times like at a concert or something where there are queues out the door, but regular at the mall type stuff. Although if at a concert there is no lineup of wheelchairs then everyone should be able to use the disabled loos.
It’s like having Braille in lifts. Everyone uses the lift but it is user friendly to all.
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Yea, I don’t feel any guilt about taking my daughter into the disabled toilets, though if there isn’t one I just take her into the mens toilets – where I’ve been they’ve been ok. The disabled toilets also makes it much easier for me to go to the toilet when I’m with her.
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people with kids think they have the monopoly on everything. Take your kids to the parenting room and wait there for the toilet. Disabled toilets are for disabled people. That’s why we have them, just like there are mens, womens, and parents toilets for other people.
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Not every parenting room has a toilet. Many of them just have a bench for changing nappies, a sink for washing hands and a couple of curtained cubicles for breastfeeding in.
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A lot of places don’t have parents rooms. Just Mens/Womens and Disabled. The Disabled toilet is the closest thing to a parenting room.
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When you have more than one child, it can be a safety issue. Even if you take your other child/ren out of their pram and leave it, you risk having it stolen. A lot of disabled toilets do have a flip down change table too. I think it’s misleading to say they’re for disabled patrons only. There wouldn’t be so many with change tables in them if they were.
It’s more correct to say they’re disabled friendly.
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Never seen anything outside a cubicle that you don’t see outside the bathroom. Go for it. Doesn’t bother me. My husband uses parents rooms or disabled with our little girl, though he’s yet to encounter it a friend who worked at Westfield said many disabled people will complain to centre management if they see a non-disabled using, even children. I’m not sure he would use a ladies, probably if only other option was a men’s but will definitely tell him about this. Also, those who are talking about saftey/being attacked….I understand this if the man was in there alone but with a little girl….!!?
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Where are these men’s toilets that are dirty? My favourite local shopping centre has extremely clean men’s toilets. The parent’s rooms have only 1 toilet (with an adult and kid’s toilet side-by-side) but the men’s toilets also have a daddy/kid stall as well.
McDonald’s generally have clean men’s toilets and the women’s can often have a line up depending on the business of that store.
I agree with the comment about the change tables only being in women’s toilets in many places, but I find that this applies mostly to older shopping centres or tourist attractions that pre-date Generation X dads being around (that is, before Gen X guys started having kids, mums looked after the kids, dads, not so much).
I was on holiday on the Gold Coast last month. Currumbin Wildlife Park is one of those archaic places with change tables ONLY in the women’s toilets and my son needed to be changed and he was with me and I was separated from our group so I changed him in the open for fear of being confronted by angry women using the toilets.
The men’s were clean enough to take my older boy to, but there wasn’t a change table or decent bench in any of the men’s toilets to change a baby.
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We aren’t at that stage yet, but it had crossed my mind that I would much prefer my husband take our daughter into the women’s toilets for the same reasons you mentioned. I’m sure the women giving you dirty looks haven’t thought it through properly. There are not always appropriate options for little girls with their dads. Good on you for putting your daughters comfort first.
(Btw – I’ve worked in a number of areas with covered women & they don’t get undressed in the toilet)
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I don’t think using the handicapped toilets is an option anyone should think about. Those toilets, like the car parks, are for people who have a genuine need. Much prefer Dad in the ladies then using the handicapped toilets.
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You’re wrong in stating they’re the same. Disabled toilets are technically toilets which are accessible to people with disabilities. By law anyone can use them (unless a person with a disability is waiting) and I will always use them when taking my son to the toilet if it’s a better option.
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I was quite surprised that people thought that disabled toilets are only for use by disabled people. If no-one is waiting it is perfectly acceptable to use them.
I found this from the government’s human rights web page FAQ:
Do accessible toilets have to be reserved exclusively for people with disabilities?
No. There is nothing in the DDA to mandate accessible toilet facilities being exclusively for use by people with disabilities – so long as in high use areas there are sufficient numbers of accessible facilities to give users with disabilities equivalent convenience of access.
Where there are multiple toilet facilities, venues may well make their own decisions to reserve accessible facilities for use by people with disabilities only, or to implement a priority system. That is however a matter for management decision in the circumstances of each venue, rather than for the DDA. Other users without disabilities may likewise decide voluntarily as a matter of courtesy not to use an accessible toilet if possible where another toilet is provided, to avoid delaying a person who does not have a choice. Again, however, that is not a matter for the DDA.
Of course, the only way to ensure absolutely equal access would be to require that each and every toilet be accessible – but no one has argued that the DDA or other laws require that, in recognition of the additional space that an accessible toilet facility requires.
The position where parking spots are reserved for use by people with disabilities is different. A parked car typically remains in place much longer than a person using a toilet does, so that parking in “disabled” spaces by drivers without a disability can effectively deny people with a disability access at all, rather than only requiring a short delay.
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In my area the disabled toilets generally have the baby changing facilities also (they are all small shopping centres with no proper parents room). So unfortunately they HAVE to be used for others as that’s all there is available.
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I think it’s perfectly fine for a man to take his toddler daughter to the ladies toilet. I wouldn’t want my husband to take our daughter to the men’s if they are so disgusting. Perhaps a good idea to announce yourself if girls in the loo are at risk of a shock but go for it. Wouldn’t bother me at all.
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I wouldn’t have an issue with seeing a man with a little girl in the ladies, of course it would be better if you could use the parents room or even the disabled toilet but if they are in use/not available than the ladies it is! Just judging by the stench that usually is around mens bathrooms I would not want a little girl in there!
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Yeah, unless the parent’s room is combined with the disabled toilet, you should never use the disabled toilet.
The disabled toilets aren’t there for parent’s who little darlings just can’t wait, they’re there for disabled people who can’t get into the thirty standard toilets a few metres away.
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I understand what you mean, but as a paraplegic, I find it very frustrating when people use the wheelchair accessible bathroom when they aren’t in a wheelchair. Most normal bathroom aren’t big enough for a wheelchair, so we have no other choice. And I personally have incontinence issues associated with my disability, so I have no more time than your toddler. As to a dad taking his kid into the ladies, no problem.
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In some places the toilet stalls are simply too small to fit an adult and a small child in at the same time though. So the disabled toilet is literally the only option I have if I need to go to the toilet when with my daughter, short of leaving her unsupervised (which I’m not going to do).
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seriously Chris, toilet cubicles aren’t that tiny that you and your kid can’t fit. I’ve taken 2 into the same cubicle for years, never encountered a “too small” one yet.
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Most disabled toilets have change tables in them. Why would they have them if you are not suppose to use them?
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disabled people can have children too. maybe that’s why there is a change table in there.
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You might not, but I have. Some places when I take my daughter to the mens toilet I have to leave the cubicle door open so there’s enough room for me to help her. And in a lot of those places you don’t want to be squished up against the walls!
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My point entirely Katherine. I’m sure that most people don’t understand the mobility/space issues associated with wheelchair use and that people with disabilities actually need that space to move on and off the toilet safely and with dignity. I have two able-bodied and one disabled child so I see from all facets. When I had to take my biggish boys into the ladies. Nobody had a problem. Perhaps if the family facilities are lacking then the staff toilet could be converted into a unisex/family area and the staff share the public facilities.
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I’ve done a little of everything – taken my daughter to the parent’s room, taken my daughter to the male loos (I also talk loudly to make sure people know I’m not in the cubicles with a little girl for any other reason than the serious business of toilet training – thanks male with girl paranoia, society).
I’ve even taken my daughter into the ladies as well, and even though my looks trigger ‘creepy guy’ I don’t think I’ve ever had really hostile reactions – holding the hand of my daughter is adequate defence.
But mostly, during that time my daughter could wipe herself but before she could push the heavy doors open, I’d just ask the nearest stranger to go in with her and keep an eye on her. I’ve never had anyone not happy to do so.
Then when she could go in by herself, if she hadn’t come out after a couple of minutes I’d ask the next women who walked into the toilet – my daughter’s name is Jas and she’s five and do you mind just calling out and checking on her for me?
Usually they’d instantly pop back out out laughing to tell me that my daughter had informed them in a very serious voice to “Tell Dad I’m doing an enormous poo and will be ages”.
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I would absolutely hate being asked to watch a random child go to the toilet. Why dont you go in with her yourself instead of making the world parent your child?
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Wow!
Whatever happened to “it takes a village to raise a child” ??
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That went out the window several decades ok, sadly.
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Chrissy, nevermind Anon, his comment made me laugh.
I’m with you on the whole village thing. Life’s much better when every now and then, you get a decent break. Once at Mackers a Mum obviously needed to go to the loo and I offered (I had my kids with me) to keep an eye on them while she went. She was pretty grateful and luckily not infected by the paranoia we see in the comments today.
I’d guess “village” people have a way of seeking each other out, even in a big city shopping centre, the anon’s of the world are welcome do everything the hard way.
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He never said he asked anyone to watch his child go to the toilet. Gosh there are some friendly people in this world.
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Don’t worry Anon, I can pick you a mile away as well.
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Another give me strength comment.
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I would appaude you for taking her into the cleaner facitility and have no issues with you doing so. Its like taking my son who just turned 7 into the female toilets….I have no idea who is in the male toilets and if there isnt a parents room available, I will happily take him in with me, god forbid the day someone say something to me!
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Seeing a man in the ladies toilet with his daughter wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. I love that you gave it back to that woman. When you ask if you may catch a glimpse of an excreting poo holes? I think you DID. In that woman. Just saying.
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totally fine, i don’t have kids, but everyone has a right to use the loo, kids and adults alike. Much prefer it to kids peeing in public
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If my husband has ever been in that situation with our little miss he’s always used the parenting or the disabled. I don’t think he’s ever taken her into the mensfor similar reasons. I don’t think it would occur to him to take her into the ladies, the same as I would never think to take my Mr 2.5 into the men’s.
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I use the parent room or the disabled toilet when I need to take my 7yo son. Where no facility has been available, I’ve taken him to the women’s because I’m a woman and I think it’s less inappropriate for him to be in the female toilets than for me to be in the male toilets. That said, it had never occurred to me before now to take my son into the male toilets – or that my husband might take our daughters to the female facilities.
I agree that more parent rooms are required – and I have no qualms about using the disabled toilets in these circumstances.
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You can share the ladies with me anytime!
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My concern with males going into the toilet is I see parents sending children as young as 5 in by themselves, and yes you are doing the right thing, but what if another male wasn’t? I hate to think like that, but these days, that is what it has come to. If dads all took their female children into female toilets, people may not notice a male coming in, and all it takes is one man doing the wrong thing for something devistating to happen. I apologise for generalizing but that is what I feel society has come to.
I do have a similar problem, my 3 year old autistic son won’t come into the female toilets, because there is a girl on the door, and he knows he’s a boy. We use the parents room or disabled toilets if we are desperate. (I know a whole other issue about the fairness of that)
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And what about all the women taking kids to the toilets too???!!!!!
What a sad comment. What do you suggest parents do when they’re toilet training their kids then, Jess? You need to be there to help them, make sure they’re doing OK and wipe themselves etc. You are correct – it’s a shocking generalisation to make.
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One of my friends pointed this out to me not long ago – baby change tables and the kids size toilets are often in the women’s toilets. What is he supposed to do if he’s out with the kids? He’s also been abused (as have other fathers I’ve spoken to) for taking their kids into Parents rooms. What the hell is that about??
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Baby change tables are usually in the disabled toilets. And I’ve never seen a kids size toilet outside of a parents room
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A few Westfield women’s loos have the combo ones like in the parents rooms.
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It would be a shock, even with your little girl so people are going to react in shock. It’s just totally unexpected. Also if the toilets are slightly empty, I would react in fear, I would probably scream- its not unheard of for women to be attacked in public toilets. And lastly it’s awkward, a man hearing pee hitting porcelain. Bit immature but still!
However I really feel for you, I wouldn’t want my little daughter stepping into a men’s loo ever! I think best is for you to knock on the ladies door tell the room loudly your situation and explain to every women that comes in after. It’s a bit shit sorry but that’s the only way to ease women’s minds. Or use the disabled loo, it’s always empty
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Seriously? You would scream if you saw a man come in with a two year old girl holding his hand? Wowsers – holy over the top reaction!
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seriously? You would scream if you saw a man with his daughter wanting to use the toilet? I think it’s unheard of for a man with his little girl to attack a woman actually. Common sense SHOULD prevail.
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I have the opposite problem. My 5yo son hates going into the ladies toilets because “it’s for girls”. We often go into the parents room toilets because in my sons mind they are for girls and boys which is ok by him. The main reason he wants to use the mens loos is because of the “wee wall”!
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James you’re doing an amazing job. Men’s toilets are foul cauldrons of filth and I wouldn’t let my toddler anywhere near them. I’ve never seen an ‘unwrapped’ Muslim in the toilets, only at the women’s baths in Sydney’s Eastern Beaches. Everyone does their private stuff inside the cubicles, I really don’t see the issue. If I’d been there I would have interrupted that lady on your behalf and told her I didn’t have a problem with it. I would continue taking your daughter in until she’s at least 5 if I were you!
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While I fully understand and would never have had my husband take our daughters into the mens you do need to consider how it appears to others. I have no problem with a shared facility but would find it confronting to be surprised by a man when I wasn’t expecting to see him there. We really do need to ensure there are adequate gender neutral facilities for families. Mothers have the same problem with our little boys, I took mine into the ladies till he was 8 and after that would stand outside the mens. If he had taken more than a minute I was going in!
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I think if there’s a parents room you should endeavour to use it but if not then yes take her to the ladies and give those uptight bitches a death stare of your own!! Aside from the hygiene issues in the mens I don’t like the idea of a little girl seeing a bunch of guys with their willys out. It’s like an epic flash!
I think the problem with your little survey is that you probably aren’t friendly with the types of women that are super uptight and having a go at the dad in the ladies. I’m really interested to see what others say about this. If nothing else maybe it will encourage some ladies to think twice the next times they encounter this and perhaps they will leave the death stare at home.
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Um, what do you think guys do when they go to the toilets, stand around a big communal toilet with their dicks on show waving them around? I’ve been in men’s toilets and have never seen a dick. What a silly suggestion that it would be like a big flash.
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Well I’ve been in men’s toilets too and seen plenty of dicks! How do you think they use urinals? Granted, the men’s toilets I’ve been in have been in nightclubs, not shopping centres but surely peeing in a urinal has a universal method?
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To see penises everywhere, Katie, you must of been looking straight at the guys peeing.
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Like a child would.
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I don’t think it’s a silly suggestion at all.
Men urinate holding their penis outside their clothing in an open room. It’s totally reasonable to think that a a child would catch a glimpse of the odd penis in there. Adults are socially conditioned to look away, children aren’t, and in addition they are about eye height with a person’s waist.
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Again, what do you think they wee into? Urinals are against walls – all the blokes have their backs to the rest of the room.
Why would it be so damaging to see a penis anyway?
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I think it’s entirely within the realm of possibility that a child in a men’s bathroom is going to see a penis.
It’s not ‘silly’ for Racheal to suggest it and I think it’s harsh for you to be so dismissive of her comment.
I don’t really care if kids go in the men’s or women’s bathroom personally. My dad took me to the men’s bathrooms and I’m not scarred by it. I have to agree with the comments that women’s bathrooms can be just as gross as men’s.
I don’t see the whole issue as a big deal. Regardless of which gender parent takes their toddler to the bathroom it seems like there is no neat solution. I suspect 99% of the time people generally won’t care but. Personally outside of events or nightclubs I have never seen massive bathroom lines so I think the whole thing is a bit of a non issue most of the time.
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Well I actually replied to all this but mamamia neglected to publish it…it wasn’t rude or going against their comment rules so I will have to assume it just went somewhere else in this comment stream so it appears alone and highly out of context! I can’t be bothered going into it all now this late in the day but the short version is: epic flash was exaggerating things to make a small joke; no mens’ penis’ are not the only reason I prefer not to take a little girl into the mens toilet. Hygiene, as James raised and as I also alluded to in my original comment, is more the issue. Like it or not mens toilets seems to get much more gross than womens. Have a nice evening everyone.
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Hi Rachel,
I can assure you men hide their Willys. Is the problem about men’s usage of toilets?
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Please be assured, there is unwritten etiquette for using the urinal. The first rule is: I don’t want to see your dick, and you don’t want to see mine. The second rule is: you can only talk to another man who is doing the same thing as you – peeing, in the line or washing hands. A man peeing can talk to another man peeing, but cannot talk to a man washing his hands. That would be just wrong.
But I digress – regarding an epic flash: we all face the wall, and no one turns around without tucking away the tackle. And proud blokes find out that there is always a bigger fish in the sea, so to speak.
I’ve seen a man dive into the trough full of piss at the footy toilets, but I’ve never seen another man’s cock in the loos. My daughter hasn’t seen one either (or a man diving either, thank the stars).
Kris2040, however, is just unlucky.
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Yeah, I know. Sigh.
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I agree with James. Unisex bathrooms aren’t that uncommon now anyway – and if a kid has to go why not take her to the toilet she would go to as an adult. Everyone has to pee and poop – it’s not a new social phenomenon – taking your child to the female toilets is better than her squatting and doing her business in public. James, you’re doing the right thing.
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James, it sounds like you are a brilliant and caring dad and personally, I wouldn’t bat an eyelid if you were in the ladies toilet training your little girl. Some people are so highly strung. And they quickly forget how hard it is! Good luck with the toilet training
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I wouldn’t have an issue with it… I would not want my little girl going on to the men’s toilets seeing them at the urinals n sitting on what sounds like filth on the seats. No I don’t think you should have to worry about other cultures ur child has to pee you are toilet training that’s ur priority!
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