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Yesterday, a mother-of-three crashed her car outside a primary school in Victoria after picking two of her children up from school. Her third child, a six-month-old baby, was also in the car. She was more than six times over the legal limit, with a blood alcohol reading of 0.304.

Australian Drug Foundation policy director Geoff Munro has said most people would fall into a coma if they drank enough to get to a reading of .3.

“A person who can read .3 and still function is most likely drinking at a high level on a very regular basis,” he said. “These people’s bodies have adapted to drinking high volumes.”

Today, her husband has come out to say that the community should not judge his wife because she is a “good mum”.

More from news.com.au:

mum crash drunk Judgement: what makes a bad parent?

The grey car driven by the mother 6 times over the legal alcohol limit who crashed it outside her children's school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The husband of a woman caught driving more than six times the legal limit with their six-month-old child in the car has pleaded with the community not to judge her.

The man, who didn’t want to be named and broke down as he spoke to media, said his wife was suffering from depression but said she was a “good mum”.

“She is a lovely woman and a great mother, or I wouldn’t be with her,” he said outside the school this morning.

“But she has some demons she is battling.”

Friends said the woman had been struggling for a number of years and urged people to show compassion.

Shocked parents from the school said they were disgusted by the incident.

“We’re just lucky no one was killed,” one said. “Kids were leaving school and if the car had gone up on the kerb it may have killed one,” she said.

The accident happened outside one of the main gates to the school. Parents said it was widely known the woman had a drinking problem. The school principal said he was appalled by the incident and said he phoned police after a parent notified him of the accident.

“It’s just horrifying,” he said. “The whole thing just makes you throw your hands up in exasperation.

Yes it does. Yes. It. Does.

Compassion. Don’t judge. Well, I’m struggling here. I’m judging. I’m not just judging, I’m stating a fact: anyone who drinks themselves stupid and gets behind the wheel of a car is an idiot. And anyone who does it with their children in the car is a bad parent.

Shall we define ‘bad parent’ in this instance? Anyone who puts their child’s life at risk. Or who intentionally harms their child. That’s my definition.

I don’t care why they did it. That is immaterial. She could have killed her children.

And don’t even get me started on all the other children – and adults – she could have killed by drinking herself virtually into a coma and then getting into a car.

So yes, I’m going to judge. I’m going to say it’s appalling that she got in that car. I’m going to say it’s appalling that, even though it was apparently well known that the woman had a drinking problem – and her husband clearly knew she had depression and other issues which seem to include severe alcoholism (according to his statement and the statement by police about her condition) that she was STILL allowed access to that car. Not to mention that she was left alone with a baby.

How can you not judge that? How can you NOT say that’s not OK?

I’m not going to be simplistic and say “take her children away”. Clearly, this is a family in need of help. But everyone has choices about their actions – including the friends and family of this woman who – if she is suffering from depression or anything else – must take some responsibility for leaving her alone with her children and with access to a car.

I once wrote a column about how we’re no longer allowed to judge anyone for anything and how it infuriates me – particularly when the “don’t-judge” admonishment is used as a moral gagging tool by someone who doesn’t agree with you. Or worse, to promote some kind of utopian kumbaya world where everything is OK.

Because there are many many things that are no OK and part of living in a civilised society is to communicate our boundaries. To apply critical thought. To have an opinion. To judge.

Here’s part of what I wrote:

Absolutely, there are kinds of judgement I abhor. Like seeing a woman in a flesh-flashing outfit and calling her a slut. What can someone’s clothes tell you about their sexual behaviour? Or walking past a girl pushing a pram and thinking, “dole bludger”. That’s ridiculous. “You can’t judge a book by its cover” is a cliché because it’s true. But you CAN judge a book by the words inside it.So when someone is, say, found guilty of deliberately harming their child, I have no problem judging them a bad parent.

Just like a person who crashes their car repeatedly could be fairly described as a bad driver.

About a year ago, I wrote about a case where a man received a suspended sentence for shaking or throwing his 12-week-old baby so hard, the child is now partially blind and badly brain-damaged. The judge thought it would be more helpful if the man helped care for his severely disabled son rather than going to jail. On my website, I expressed shock that such a person would even be allowed around vulnerable children. Cue finger shaking. “There but for the grace of God go I,” chastised some. “Don’t be so judgemental,” said many others including a good friend. “He might be a terrific father for all you know.” Really? But how?

Are there reasons for such crimes? Excuses? Back stories? Frankly, who cares. My concern in these cases was not for the adults because they’re…. adults. They can be responsible for themselves and make their own choices. Babies and children unfortunately don’t have that same choice. They’re at the mercy of their primary carers. And I believe not all primary carers are up to the job. Biology isn’t enough to make you an adequate parent let alone a good one.

Abuser? I judge you. I judge you to be a bad parent and a bad person. Shame on you.

“But you don’t know all the facts” insist the don’t-judge police. Well, in these two cases, I knew enough to make judgements, which, incidentally, are of absolutely no consequence. I’m not an actual judge or a DOCS worker. My opinion is merely that. So I’m perplexed when someone tries to shut it down by taking some odd moral high ground.
I’m confused about this Pollyanna state in which some people would have us live. A world without judgement. A Kumbaya land of rainbows and unicorns where every choice was equal, every behaviour tolerated and everyone given an understanding pat on the back for doing their best. Even if their best put a child in hospital. But wait, don’t judge.

This isn’t about how long you breastfeed for or when you went back to work after having a baby. That type of ‘judgement’ is as ridiculous as it is uneccessary. But judging people whose behaviour could – or does – put their children’s lives at risk? It doesn’t mean we don’t also want to help them. It doesn’t mean we turn our backs on them.

For the protection of the most vulnerable members of our society – children – we must judge parents who aren’t anywhere near up to the job.

If you need immediate help, you can contact:

Lifeline – 13 11 14
Suicide Call Back Service – 1300 659 467
Kids Helpline – 1800 55 1800
MensLine Australia – 1300 78 99 78

SANE Australia has fact sheets on mental illness as well as advice on getting treatment. Visit www.sane.org or call 1800 18 SANE (7263).

You can also visit beyondblue: the national depression initiative (1300 22 4636) or the Black Dog Institute, or talk to your local GP or health professional.

Comments

Comment Guidelines : Imagine this is a dinner party. Differences of opinion are welcome but keep it respectful or the host will show you the door. We have zero tolerance for any abuse of our writers or other commenters. So if you're rude, your comment will be deleted (so will any replies to the original comment - so save your breath). And if you’re offensive, you’ll be banned. Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're going to be - cool. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation...

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455 Comments so far

  1. GD Star Rating
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    fifif

    I was actually thinking about this exact topic today.

    This morning I read about the horrible father/son/story bridge event.

    Later on – facebook feed reads – “hope father rots in hell for throwing boy off bridge” 3 likes

    Noone is saying thats good but also – it is not the time and place.

    Seriously what needs to happen with the drunk driving case is get those children out of harms way IMMEDIATELY.

    You cannot change the past but you can change the future.

    In my opinion it is just a waste of time to judge and instead we need to think about what we can do to stop it happening again. This could be done by
    1. getting children out of harms way
    2. getting mother help
    3. getting help for husband so he can see if he was enabling/ what he can do to stop it happening again
    4. education campaigns for wider community

    I get what you are saying – yes we can judge – because i would never do that – the kids are at risk – other kids/people are at risk – and that is frikken terrible- but also there is a way to say it and saying that someone should ‘rot in hell’ definitely is not appropriate for me as it isnt constructive..

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    Anonymous

    What exactly is the point of you writing a whole article about judging a stranger? Does it help anyone? No. It’s just a giant waste of time and energy. Why not use that time and energy to do something constructive, like volunteer for an organisation that helps people with alcholism or depression.

    If you know someone who is potentially a danger to others, then judging them can be constructive, because it allows you to see how you can help. But judging a complete stranger is pointless.

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      Anonymous

      So true, I feel like there was a real opportunity here to use this example for good, instead it was used to write a petty judgement piece.. such a waste!

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      Anonymous

      Exactly. Stop judging strangers, step up and speak out when you see a problem in your community. You’re not achieving anything with this article, Mia. Perhaps we’d be better off judging all the other parents who sat around not doing anything even though they knew the woman was an alcoholic and clearly a potential liability. You’d achieve a lot more by encouraging your judgemental readers to step up and participate in their community rather than sitting around here bitching out other parents for their parenting choices.

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        Eloise

        Totally agree with these comments. Yes well done Mia and all the women agreeing with you! Look how right and virtuous you are!

        It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what a gross misjudgement this was on behalf of the mother, but what is this article proving exactly? That people can bind together like sheep and agree on something that is pretty bloody obvious and that’s drinking and driving, let alone with a child in the back seat.

        I don’t condone the mother’s actions in the slightest but I sure hope after this extremely dangerous incident she is offered a great deal of help from people a whole lot less judgemental than you lot.

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          Anon

          I think all it proves is that Mia is able to rally a whole lot of (quoting someone above’s clever comment) sycophantic ‘keyboard warriors’ when she decides she’s on a mission, so you better not fuck up in any way lest she turn her superior judgement upon you! As if she, or indeed any of us, are perfect.

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            essessesse

            *rolls eyes*

            That’s the second time an Anon has come out with the ‘perfect’ line.

            It’s a crock. No one is perfect, but that doesn’t mean to say that you can’t comment on other peoples activities – ie getting in your car six times over the limit and driving your kids.

            From a ‘sycophantic keyboard warrior’.

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    arokh

    I’m sick and tired of people using depression as an excuse for heavy drinking and drug taking. I’ve been diagnosed with depression for almost 20 years and not once have I drunk to excess…actually I’m more of a teetotaller…and never ever had I used drugs.

    Someone earlier here said what about those around her? I ask the same question. Does her hubby bother to help or support her in any way? Sometimes it’s those who are closest that can do the most harm (usually unintentionally) but can also be the greatest help.

    As for the judgement, can we really judge a person on a single incident in the media (and of course being from News Ltd is probably blown out of proportion for sales sake)? No of course not. If you do that I’d wager almost every single person here, if caught on a particularly bad day, would be judged quite negatively just on a single incident. Before laying judgement on a person look at the whole picture first.

    I also just ask people to stop using mental illness as an excuse for excessive drug and alcohol abuse as, even though they can be linked, is not a sole reason for it as can be attested by many more, like myself, who don’t touch drugs or alcohol yet still have mental health issues.

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      Stuffed Shirt

      I agree on the fact that a news story is being used as “all the facts”. Don’t judge on just information in a media story.

      And anyone under the influence of drugs or alcohol does not make a decision to behave in a thought out manner…they just act! Good or bad.

      Yes, those around her are responsible just as much to ensure those kids are not in danger until she receives help.

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    Ebony

    Just wondering if all the people on Team Don’t Judge Her, She Needs Help Not Judgement would feel the same way if she had mowed down their kids or someone they love????? Just putting the question out there.

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      Laura

      I’d be angry, I’d be grief stricken. But I’d judge a lot of other elements that enabled this long before I judged that woman.

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        Anonymous

        Pffff. yeah right.

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          Laura

          Well done to you for seeing through into a non-existing future and through your psychic powers deducing what my feelings would be in event of a hypothetical situation better than I myself can. While you’re there, can you get me the lotto numbers? :)

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            Anonymous

            Yeah that was pretty childish of me and I apologise. Still trying to get my head around my feelings about what happened. And I know you won’t judge me on this one occasion because it seems from your comments like you’re not that type of person :-)

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              Anonymous

              But no – I will keep the lotto numbers to myself, thanks, lol

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      justvisiting

      I feel qualified to comment as I’ve had a close family member killed by a drunk and drugged driver.

      I don’t hate the driver or think they are a bad person. They made a terrible decision with horrific consequences. I wish they’d never gotten behind the wheel that day, and I wish they’d gotten help before that day. Hatred, at the end of the day, gets you nowhere.

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        Anonymous

        I’m so sorry for your loss, how awful for you and how decent of you to think that way about the person who did it. You have something I don’t have.. I really would have reacted differently, and especially have seen red if everyone around me was telling my that this person was still a “good person” and not to judge on that one incident….

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        Ebony

        I’m so sorry for your loss. And thank you for your reply.

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        Amanda

        You might not hate them, or think they are a bad person, but surely you think they are a bad driver!

        Mia isn’t saying this woman is a bad person, just a bad parent – and her actions are enough proof of that!

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      Just a mum

      Agree with Ebony 100%! Forgive me for not reading all the comments before I post this, but it’s a pretty provoking article. What about “it takes a village to raise a child”? I agree with everything Mia has said, but in addition have any of the other school mums who allegedly knew there was a problem offered this mum/family help? Offer the kids a lift home? A break from the bub? We’re part of a pretty small school community but I’m sure most of us would offer some help to someone in need like this. Again, certainly not condoning what she did, but we should all try to reach out to people in our community obviously in need.

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        Nadine

        Good point Just A Mum. It’s easy to comment on her drinking problem after the fact.

        For all the parents/school staff who ” knew” she had a drinking problem and depression I judge you before i judge her.

        Who offered her help?

        Who watched this woman suffer and struggle, and just gossiped??

        To the gossipers, stop commenting and look at your actions.

        I am in no way saying the mother is not at fault, but deep depression makes a person unable to see things clearly, makes a person withdraw – maybe her depression stopped her seeking the help she needed.

        The upside to the accident is that now this mother will get the medical help and support she needs. Her depression stopped her living, loving and no doubt genuinely smiling, I hope one day soon she will wake up and look forward to the rest of her life.

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        Nadine

        Just to add:

        Talking with friends about how you think someone is a bad mother/ father/daughter/son/friend…. Is one thing.

        Writing it on a public forum is another. This is out there forever. What happens in 10 years when the baby wants to find out more information about the accident she was in when she was only six months old and finds out her mother was judged by total strangers as a bad mother???

        Media outlets report only what they choose to. At the end of the day it’s all about profit. What will provide profit – sensationalism. We really do not know the truth and I hope for this woman’s sake we don’t. Her ” demons” (not my word) are private and need to remain that way.

        I often read posts where readers have said ‘bad article’. For the most part I have thought great article, not because of the content but because it has made people think, react, have a (sometimes heated) conservation.
        This time however I feel we should have reported the facts and left the judgement until ALL the facts were in ( or not at all).

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    Lindy

    Not cool at all.

    Off the topic but still on “judging” people, what is judging defined as? I have a friend who thinks it cool to take drugs & get all fuked up. When I dont react with ” oh man your so awesome & hardcore” and more of uninterest I get the ” oh stop judging me” tirade. Doesn’t everyone know that drug use is bad, bad for healt, bad for everything? Just as wrong as drunk driving? How is this judging by not supporting bad decisions? this person is old enough to know better & constantly on about their bad health, but then goes on binges?

    Wheres the line between not supporting bad choices and being judgmental?

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      Sheree

      Agreed, 100%!!

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      Jess88

      Your friend judges themself for their lifestyle, that’s why they accuse you of judging them.

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        Lindy

        Oh good one Jess, never thought of it from that aspect before!

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    Sara

    Judging won’t make the situation better. Those closest to her will need to help her sort through issues underpinning this incident. As a stranger, you do not know her personal circumstances or what led to this happening. It is very fortunate the kids were not injured. The mother did put the children in danger. In that moment, she was acting irresponsibly and inappropriately and she needs help. Consider a mother who leaves her 6 month old baby at home alone while she goes out driving. You could label her a ‘bad mother’ quickly too, but if she is struggling with severe Post Natal Depression then she may not necessarily be a ‘bad person’, and may become a great mother beyond her illness- it’s true that the care for the child is inadequate in that moment, it is also true she is unwell, not herself and needs help. Labeling a person ‘bad’ and a ‘bad mother’ when you do not know them or their personal circumstances, (and you rarely do) on a very large public forum is a form of bullying. ‘Judging’ is a form of ‘gossip’ & ‘bullying.’ Is it even necessary to comment on whether you think she makes a good or bad mother? You know of 1 incident in 1 day in a woman’s life- even if it is, sadly, very bad.

    For the sake of understanding judgment- imagine the scenario where there is a teenager and they’ve just made an awful mistake that has endangered their friends… perhaps it was reckless driving. No one was hurt and they need to face up to the truth and pay the consequences. You can be mad at them and say ‘driving under influence is wrong and you endangered other people’s lives’ but to go further and call them a ‘bad person’ and shame them to tens of thousands of people is counter intuitive. JUDGEMENT OF AN ACT IS NECESSARY- E.g. This mother drove while drunk, endangering her children and others, and this was very bad. Calling a person you don’t know a ‘BAD PERSON, BAD SON, BAD DAUGHTER, BAD FRIEND, BAD MOTHER, BAD FATHER’ on a very large public forum, is assuming this act defines who they are, which is simplistic, and damaging to any person. Also, it’s just not necessary to attack a persons character.

    I judge WOMEN who judge other people and incidents that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEMSELVES. Will it help her at all? No. Will it help her kids at all? No. Will it make you feel better about your own life?

    Calling other women bad mothers might make you feel like a good mother. Calling a woman who may be suffering post natal depression, depression or another mental illness derogatory names is not ‘empowering of women’ and each other, or helpful. I think MamaMia needs to consider more carefully, sometimes, the affect its words can have on individuals and families.

    This ACT was bad. Children were endangered, but luckily they are okay. Hopefully this woman gets help for her personal issues and learns from her mistakes and this doesn’t happen again.

    Mia- judging someone’s character- and telling tens of thousands of people they are a bad mother- is just talking badly about someone you don’t know.

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      Anonymous

      Wow, wish I could like your post a million times.

      Judging this woman doesn’t make things better for anybody. Her, her kids, us.. Helping her before it got that bad might have made it better.

      But being utterly nasty on the internet isn’t helping anyone.. it’s just being a bitch.

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        Anonymous

        Oops I accidently clicked the thumbs up on this. Just to clarify I actually don’t agree with you (or the poster you were”liking”) and I actually agree with Mia… Sorry.

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          Laura

          Because that was important to clarify?!

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            Anonymous

            Yes, because it skews the perception of how many people actually agreed with the comment. That’s all.

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        penny

        yes reminds me of the salem witch hunt

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          Nadine

          Penny, I had the same thought.

          My thought was: thankfully we are not in Salem, if we were this woman would have been burnt alive by now.

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      bee

      I agree that judging isnt a great thing to do but to say you dont judge is a lie. Its human nature. You cant have no opinion on everything. Life isnt all peaches and cream and its ok if we think some things are a little..pooey.

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        Nadine

        Bee, of course we have an opinion but some people reserve that opinion until all the facts are in.
        Also, public v’s private statements… What is said in my home generally goes no further, what’s said on the internet never stops. Young adults who were depressed have committed suicide because of bullying (read judgement) over the Internet.

        Re judging, I’m making an effort not to judge (its a work in progress) but when think about judging I try to do a few things:

        1. Base my opinion on fact not on emotions.
        2. Try to find out as much information as I can.
        3. I don’t make rash judgements (no.2 helps with this).
        4. I use empathy. What was going on in their head that day, the week prior etc…
        5. Intent. Did the person intend for this to happen?

        And I try to look at the behaviour not the person. One incident does not a bad mother make.

        Judge her action, not her character.

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      justvisiting

      Agree with everything you’ve written! Judgment and bile, based on one newspaper report, is so easy, and does absolutely nothing to help those involved.

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      Melitta

      Sara,
      This woman drove so drunk she should have been unconscious, she put her children and the lives of other parents and their children at risk, never mind everyone one else on the roads b4 she arrived at the school. With or without problems she deserves judgement by the law by you by me by everyone who is at risk because of her behaviour. Do you think she should not be judged because no one was hurt? Should it be ok for her to continue until someone gets hurt, judgement may just be what she needs in order to get help for herself. Without judgement there is no shame. Apparently others knew she was struggling and decided not to judge how did that help?

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        Haven Maven

        Melitta, you can’t help an addict if they don’t want to be helped.

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      LJ

      Fantastic post Sara! I always tell my son – I will always love you – BUT – I may not like some of the things you do or your behaviour. I will however always love you. Let’s hope this mum gets the help she needs so desperately so she can again function as a wife and mother. Damning her may lead to something much more dire.

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      Elena

      Wow. What an intelligent, thoughtful and measured response.

      Thank you Sara!

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      Anonymous

      Agree with Sara. As a former DoCS worker feel it is more appropriate for them to ‘judge’ the situation by fully assessing the situation and taking appropriate action to ensure the safety and well being of the children. A public witch hunt serves no-one’s interests, least of all the children.

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      Baggins

      So Sara,
      By your logic, someone who abuses a child isn’t a bad person, just in need of help? Sorry some actions and activities are unacceptable, completely, utterly unacceptable. Yes this woman needs help, yes she needs support. Does that make what she did alright? Hell, no.

      Our society continues to devolve as acts of cruelty, abuse, and even stupidity are tolerated or ignored. At some point we must say enough is enough. Give her all the help she can get (who pays?) but take her bloody keys off her! Then; how do the kids get home? Another problem for them to solve.

      But she must, as a minimum lose the privilege of driving as her judgement is quite obviously impaired. Too many people misinterpret the privileges of our modern society as rights, they are not. As privileges they can, and sometimes should be removed. Our law provides the guidelines under which circumstances this should happen.

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      Nadine

      Sara, an incredibly intelligent and thoughtful response.

      Thank you.

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    Anonymous

    The story saddens me, but your response saddens me too.

    Let’s all judge her! She deserves it – so feel free to tear her to shreds! Let’s have a total internet bitch session about her!

    Or we could do something actually constructive.

    Instead of being a pack of ranty internet bitches, why not take a step back and look at people in our own circles of influence who might need a hand? People who might have some issues that we can help with?

    I don’t know, but this is pathetic. Standing around and judging, whether they deserve it or not, doesn’t help anyone. And spewing internet hate at this woman doesn’t help her kids. What would have helped her kids is someone helping her before she got to this point – which none of you are achieving by slinging insults at her on this post.

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      Laura

      Definitely agree. Why “MUST” anyone be judged? Why can’t we just HELP them?!

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        Mia

        Laura, I don’t think the two things are mutually exclusive. I agree she needs help. The whole family does.
        But I think the dad has clearly been in denial about what a ‘good mum’ is.

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          Laura

          I definitely agree, Mia. They’re not mutually exclusive. But this post was just about judgement – not offering assistance. Perhaps some links/numbers to organisations who deal with depression, alcoholism, etc, might be worth including? I can imagine if I was a mum suffering from one of the above, the comments in this post would frighten me into keeping quiet about my issues for fear of judgement – not revealing them.

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            Anonymous

            That’s exactly what I was thinking, Laura.

            There was a case in America where a woman crashed with her daughters and nieces in the car, and had a massive alcohol problem that nobody even knew about, not even her husband. If there was anybody with an alcohol problem reading this post… how would they feel? How likely would they be to say to a friend “I think I need help”…. or would they feel even more despised and ashamed, tell nobody and get worse?

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            Anonymous

            This is exactly why I was so disappointed when I read this article, I felt like there was a real potential to do something good with this example and it was just wasted with nothing but judgement that fed the whole “good” mum, “bad” mum thing. Opportunity missed.

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            LJ

            Good point. When someone has committed suicide they always include Lifeline. Very good point.

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          Pen

          The judgement here is ignorant and frankly astounding… How do any of you know the quality of her Parenting?! Imagine if your parenting was judged on one event..?! YOu can’t say we should support and malign her at the same time!!! That is not helpful at all to anyone!

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          Anon

          Mia- he is protecting the person he married, he is standing by her unconditionally. I hope if u were in the same place, obviously a very dark hole, your husband would stand by you in the public eye. We have no idea what so ever what is going on behind closed doors. Judgement is a pathetic emotion- I, as I’m sure you do, as does everyone who writeson this post, have things within our lives that we could be judged on, yet would it help us for people to judge us? Chances are no it wouldnt!

          Unless you are in a position where you are able to make a difference I.e a judge, a docs worker etc, your judgement does no good. This woman doesn’t need your judgement, she needs judgement from the law, a docs worker and then she simply needs help. Until you get a law degree or change professions, sitiing behind a computer screen casting judgement on people is not your role in our world. Have an opinion about the incident sure but don’t label a person. How did you feel, when everyone judged you about Cadel, when everyone labelled you? Please stop judging people, it does no good. Unless you yourself are without flaws stop throwing stones please!!!!

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      Natasha

      You know what ? I will judge this woman for making such a stupid decision . I also will not tolerate any excuses for her behaviour. Oh she was depressed, oh she has a disorder. Yes I will judge and harshly so. That baby could have died, other children could have been hurt to. If you child was hit by a drunk driver would you judge or would you sympathize with her for having a bad day and drinking too much. Judge and Judge I will.

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        Anonymous

        But how does that make anything better? I seriously want to know.

        Judging her doesn’t make her NOT an alcoholic, it doesn’t make her NOT depressed, it doesn’t make her kids have a fully functioning happy mum. It’s not constructive, it doesn’t help anyone.

        Being merciful and compassionate towards people before they get to crisis points would be such a better lesson to take from this, rather than setting up this woman as a shooting target..

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          Laura

          Great minds, we posted at the same time!

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          Cait

          Without trying to ‘poke the bear’, im genuinely curious about what you think the ‘not judging’ will achieve too.

          The consensus is that people knew what was going on, and that she had an alcohol problem. People KNEW and did nothing, no judgment, just let her carry on.

          If we now stop and say ‘aww its ok, we are going to help you now that you have endangered untold numbers of lives AND gotten caught this time’ its also enabling her. If you show society that shes deserving of help AFTER she has endangered lives, its not going to do any good.

          I truely feel its unfortunate how hard her demons pushed her, but she does need to see the consequences, and so does society. She also needs help, no ones denying that, but the enabling and excuse making needs to stop.

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            Laura

            Good post. I don’t think “not judging” and “not helping” are the same thing though. I don’t think anyone needed to go around going “oh, she’s such a bad mum and a disgraceful alcoholic and imagine if she runs over my kid one day and we’d better do something about it I suppose” in order to help someone. I think those are different things. I think saying “We think you have a problem and I want to help you” and not taking no for an answer is VERY different to what we’re all doing here – slating on a woman we don’t know. That’s my definition of judgement in this context.

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            Anonymous

            You’re right that somebody should have stepped in earlier – but with support, not judgment. The law and her own conscience will make sure that she is well aware of the consequences of her actions, but beyond that, how is this post helpful? After ripping her to shreds, is anybody here (especially Mia) going to offer to drive her to AA meetings or pick her kids up from school?

            All I am saying is that if this woman has a big enough problem to do what she did, and now the guilt of what she has done added on top of that – why on earth do any of you think that there is anything good to be achieved by tearing her apart all over the internet? This website is all over cyberbullying when it happens to your precious kids, but never stops to think that this woman is a real person… whose kids might be reading this.

            The fact that she has been charged should be enough of a wakeup call to her and her family and friends that she did a terrible thing and has a very serious problem that needs to be dealt with. Shouldn’t the lesson we all learn from this not be to throw stones, but to look around us and see if there is anybody who could be heading down a similar path… and maybe change that?

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          Mia

          That’s a really good question. I’m going to think about it.

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          Mia

          Wait! I think it’s that this is about lack of responsibility. It’s about denial. It’s about being able to kid yourself that you or your loved one is a ‘good mum’ or dad, when they are patently not. It’s about denying reality and by doing so, putting children – whether your own or other people’s, at extreme risk.

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            Laura

            Reality with a mental illness and an alcohol problem could be a bit skewed, however :/ Especially with all the pressure that’s put on women to be supermum.

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            twomummies

            I think you will find denial is a major symptom of alcoholism.

            Would have been a more worthwhile post if you had spent a bit of time talking about alcoholism…what it is, what you can do to help someone…..

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              Haven Maven

              And support for the families as well. Al Anon and Nar Anon. Mia – its a horrible thing to go through watching someone you love succumb to addiction. The whole family is in a maelstrom of unhappy.

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            LJ

            Mia for God’s sake this woman has an illness that stuffs up her whole world! Please don’t also can her husband for not taking responsibility or being in denial! Alcoholics are very good at masking their illness. Maybe this time she let her guard down.

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        Laura

        But what’s the POINT? All it does is push more negativity around. Why not do something constructive? If there were six hundred people throwing rocks at my windows and one person who came to the door and offered to help me, I know which one would stop me reaching for the bottle again.

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          Kathy W

          The point is – this is a FORUM – where people post OPINIONS – and we are EXPRESSING them.

          Not everything has to be sunshine, roses, support, positivity – some of us are angry about this and we are VENTING. Okay.

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            Laura

            You can lose the snark, it’s not really necessary. Why is it necessary for us to “vent” about something that really doesn’t have anything to do with us, I suppose, is the question I ask? Why is it our business, our perogative to express an opinion on someone we don’t know? Why can’t we look at the facts, say, I hope that woman gets some help and I hope this raises awareness of the struggles of mothers, those with depression, and alcoholism? Why is it our right and banner to get angry about this issue, and “vent”? No judgement here, just a legitimate questioning and curiosity.

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              Kathy W

              Sorry about the capitals – I just can’t believe there are some on here who question the right to be angry and upset about this issue and want to express that anger.

              I don’t know Julia Gillard but I express opinions on her. I don’t know Ivan Milat but certainly have an opinion on him. I don’t know Kim Kardashian but hope she gets help. What’s the difference? Is it because this was some suburban mother – is that why it’s sacrosanct?

              I just feel angry simply because the outcome could have been a whole lot worse. Thank God it wasn’t.

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              Jimmy's Girl

              If I was at the ‘dinner party’ or with a bunch of girls having a few coffees (or white wines – despite the subject of the debate) and this topic came up, I *know* there would be a range of opinions, judgements, condemnations, excuses, rationalisations, you name it. We all have opinions of varying degree on every subject. This is a touchy subject, and of course it’s our right to vent and opine about it all.

              This is how society sets its standards on what is acceptable and what is not. As the debate goes on over time, society’s attitude becomes clearer and more entrenched. Attitudes thus change, leading to actions changing. Look at seat belts, smoking laws, RBT…

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        Serena

        My thoughts exactly Natasha.

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    JosieY

    This woman did wrong. At that moment she was NOT a good parent. But I am saving (most of) my judgement for the people around her (like that dad) who KNEW there was a problem but did nothing about it. Maybe this is a time when someone (who?) SHOULD have interefered and helped her before this happenned. And I have so much compassion for the kids. I hope the gossiping that will no doubt go around doesn’t hurt them too much. Here’s a suggestion for the school – the family is obviously going through a really hard time right now, why not do some cooking or something for them? Why not give them the support (even though the mother did bad) to help them get through this and ensure it never happens again?

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      Mia

      That’s a terrific idea

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      Ktee

      Great response Josie!

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      Em

      Fantastic response. After all judgment is useless without offering to help. Feel for the family.

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      brightrfish

      Josie, you have summed up exactly my thoughts: at that moment, she was a bad parent. This does not mean she has always been and always will be a bad parent. As for judging her: I DO judge her; however most of my judgement, disappointment and anger is directed at those who KNEW this mother was struggling and had a drinking problem, yet did nothing about it! They, in my mind, are also culpable. A school community is supposed to be just that: a community.

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    Ken

    Agree with you Mia. Unfortunately some people seem to think that judgement precludes compassion. It does not. In many cases if people had been judged over their behaviour intervention could have prevented a tragedy.

    Many behaviours and health issues like depression can be altered if it is recognised, accepted by the individual and acted upon. If nobody judges, including the individual judging themselves then things don’t change. This woman clearly needs that judgement for her own health, her families health and for the rest of society.

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    Tina

    Well said Mia!

    So many people today are so scared to voice an opinon for fear of being judged it’s pathetic. At the end of the day they are OUR opinons. This woman had a choice to pick up the drink or to not. Had the choice to get in her car or not. For those that say she wouldn’t have had presence of mind, she had enough presence of mind to remember to pick up her kids and the presence of mind to remember to bring the baby and strap it in!

    For those that knew of her drinking problem and depression, shame on you for not doing something to help her. Being a knowing bystander makes you just as guilty. Although I bet should someone have been hurt or worse killed you would be sitting there judging her instead of realising that you were partially responsible for not speaking up or helping. Have you not all heard of RUOK??

    I also sincerely hope that this woman is really suffering from depression (not that I would wish that on anyone, being someone that is medically diagonised) and isn’t just using the “mental health card” to excuse her behaviour.

    Now…..go ahead and judge me for my comment!

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      Anonymous

      Yes I will judge you for your comment….I judge that you and I are exactly on the same page on this!! Bravo.

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    Bubba's Mumma

    How awful for her children at that school. They will forever be defined by their peers and their peers parents as ‘those children whose mother…’
    I think it is appalling that this woman has no support system. How could her husband, relatives and friends have allowed this to happen. I agree – more people should step up and speak out like the yoga teacher in Mike McLeish’s story. This didn’t have to happen and thankfully no one was hurt.

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    katemac

    You know what should shock us and who we should be judging, are ALL the people who knew she had a drinking problem and yet it would appear have done NOTHING to help her FFS! Surely you would offer to pick up her kids from school so she’s off the roads!

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      green trees

      it’s almost impossible to help someone who doesn’t want to help themselves. i don’t know if that is the case with this woman but i have a family member who is an alcoholic and has had so many people trying to help her but she refuses the help. what can you do?

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        Cait

        The cold hard truth is that you need to stop enabling that person.

        I have a school friend who was sent to AA (hes only in his early 20s) by his parents. He wasnt living with them, but they could see he was ruining his life and wasting away.

        I have another friend who was dobbed in by his girlfriend for drink driving. She tried to stop him getting behind the wheel, but when that failed, she called the police, gave them his rego details, and where she thought he was headed. He was caught, lost his licence, and they are still together because he learnt his lesson.

        There are options. Please, for the sake of your family member, look into them :)

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    Lu

    Genuine question here, it was widely known she had a drinking problem and drove around with her kids in the car. How is that sort of thing to be handled? Who do you report her to? How do you stop her?

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      Anonymous

      I would like to know this too….

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      Flowers in the spring

      In the ACT you report her to Care and Protection. In NSW it’s DOCS. Not sure about other states and territories.

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    Jane

    Of course it’s not OK to subject your children or others to that kind of dangerous behaviour. It’s absolutely not. But what is OK about alcoholism? The fact that it’s ignored as one of Australia’s biggest health issues? The fact that so many of us can conveniently turn a blind eye to those who are suffering from it? Alcoholism a disease that is often associated with depression and I’m pretty sure that people don’t choose to be alcoholics. Or do they choose to be depressed. Having an alcoholic in the family is not easy and it’s certainly not the case that you can just tell them not to be. Mia, I find your judgements hearltess and compassionless. I’m not sure you understand what being an alcoholic is all about. This woman and family need support not judgement.

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      twomummies

      I agree.

      Alcoholism is a terrible disease and alcoholics get very little support or compassion. All too easy to suggest that an alcoholic can just stop drinking or have the mental capacity to make other child pick up arrangements. Many alcoholics are constantly in a state of denial.

      The reports suggest that people ‘knew she had a drinking problem’ but did any of these knowledgable people step up to offer to drive her kids to school? Did any of them do anything to help? Did the school do anything to help the family?

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      Anon

      I am sorry if you have an alcoholic in your family. But is is a simple matter of judgement in my opinion- what if this woman had killed a child? Maimed them? Damaged them for life? An innocent child? are you still unwilling to judge an action that is no longer affecting just them – but the community?

      I am sorry, but help and judgement sometimes MUST go hand in hand. Without judgment there is less emphasis on accountability. Sometimes people need to be made think twice about how their actions simply do not impact on them alone.

      I feel for anyone who is in such a state that they feel the need to turn to some alternative avenue – such as alcohol. But also having suffered through being tormented, belittled and abused by my depressed ex in an ongoing effort to try and support his problem, I lost myself. My life became worthless and it was all about him. Society says we should not judge. Society says we should take it easy on people who suffer from such problems, and I agree…but not at a cost for others. No more.

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        Jane

        How much rational thinking do you think she gets to do as an alcoholic? Do you think as an alcoholic she fully comprehends the consequences of her actions? How is your judgement helping that family? How is your judgement helping confront alcoholism as a disease? I fail to see in this scenario how peoples judgement is in any way helpful.

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          Anonymous

          Hi Jane

          Ultimately I am the first to counsel an outcome that is softest and sweetest for all. And for the most part, I agree that judgement cannot help in any way, shape or form. But I am also determined that there are times where judgement, with foundation, may mean the difference between innocent people suffering too.

          I do not condone judgement for no sake or benefit, and if there is ever an alternative I would seek it.

          However, I fervently wish that one person judged my ex husband, just once to give me the support and courage I needed to save myself. Instead everyone overlooked what they saw because he had depression. Very functioning depression. Very manipulative depression.

          And please no – I do not sit on judgement with ANYONE with depression, but judge ACTIONS that hurt others that are condoned because of things such as depression and alcoholism. Because in essence it means that the person with depression had more worth than the person they hurt. And it is this that I cannot reconcile in my head.

          But Jane, perhaps we can listen to each other and realise that we both, in the end, hope for the best resolution for anyone in troubled times.

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            Anonymous

            “Because in essence it means that the person with depression had more worth than the person they hurt.”

            Oh YES…. Amazingly put and exactly how I feel about this whole thing….

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      Petal

      I think if you re-read the article, Mia agrees that she needs help. Her husband knew she had problems, yet was quite happy to leave her at home to drink herself senseless, supervise a six month old baby and then drink-drive to pick up her kids. Why hasn’t her husband helped her? (OK we don’t know the whole story but surely he could arrange for someone else to pick up the kids/look after the baby – we all have neighbours.)

      Thank God no-one was injured or killed. Hopefully the accident has prompted this family into getting some help.

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        Lu

        Absolutely! If she has depression and a 6 month old baby surely that would be post natal depression and she was medicating with alcohol. If I was behaving like that and so out of control I would hope my husband, parents and friends would have an intervention and make me seek help and go into hospital.

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        Haven Maven

        Its easy to say this, but impossible to ‘make’ someone who is ill and quite likely in denial look outside of themselves. Its also hard to say what the husband has or hasnt done. Being the partner of an addict is no picnic. Addicts are brilliant liars, and they take emotional hostages. Lets just hope that this is her wake up call and her ‘rock bottom’, and that support is available to them all.

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    K

    I grew up with an alcoholic mother. This article speaks of a common scenario for me. I learnt to walk home from school – firstly because of the times mum forgot to show up as she was passed out on the couch, and then as a self preservation measure.

    Was she up to the job of parenting myself and my siblings? No. Did she love us the best she could? Oddly, yes. Should my father have intervened? Yep. Did he? No. Did anyone? No.

    Result: I spent my late teens in a rental by the freeway with my 2 younger siblings and struggled to earn enough to keep a roof over our heads, food in our belly and them in school. We are all over 30 now, that’s history and we’re living happy lives with families of our own.

    I don’t know what the solution is here. I do know this though: At 18, when I was able to take myself and my younger siblings out of that horrible situation, I could not fathom why people around us, people who knew exactly what was going on in our little middle class suburban home, had not done anything about it. We as a society SHOULD be indignant and we SHOULD judge this parents behaviour and choices. It. Is. Not. Okay.

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      Kathy W

      My father was a violent, abusive alcoholic and to this day I still can’t fathom how my extended family KNEW what he was doing and yet did NOTHING to help my sister or me. It’s been years and it still pisses me off.

      All the bleeding hearts on here saying this woman needs compassion and support – sorry – have you ever lived in a family like this? With a drunk? It’s crap, let me tell you. I feel sorry for the children. They’re the ones most in need of compassion and support.

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        twomummies

        I am sorry you had that experience but not all alcoholics are violent. Maybe if more people were encouraged to intervene and support the families who have alcoholic members there would be a lot fewer lives damaged in the long run.

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          Kathy W

          What’s your point about not all alcoholics are violent?

          So what? Alcoholics like my father still cause chaos and destruction. When he wasn’t violent (which was usually restricted to Friday & Saturday nights), he was still a drunk. Refusing to pay bills, driving drunk, being a total jerk-ass, being rude to my friends – and I was a teenager so that was just pitiful.

          No one helped my family. They all stood by and watched. As I said above, I hope someone is watching out for this woman’s children as drunks usually go hand in hand with chaotic households.

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            Anonymous

            Thank you for sharing – I hope it will help some people listen and take note. Society says these people deserve our “compassion” and “understanding” but in doing everyone forgets about the innocent people they are hurting in the process.

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            twomummies

            My point is that alcoholism is a complex disease that manifests itself in many ways. I am not saying that just because an alcoholic isn’t violent that the consequences for loved ones are not serious.

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              Kathy W

              Beg to differ about the ‘disease’ definition. Cancer is a disease. My father chose to drink.
              No one chooses cancer.

              Yeah,sure we could bang on about my dad’s ‘complex’ childhood with an alcoholic father but in the end, he knew the genetic risk and still chose to drink, become an alcoholic in the process, and ruin lives.

              I have no sympathy for alcoholics. Their choice = lives scattered to the four winds.

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    anon for this one

    My 11 year old sister in law is a student at the school where this accident happened. Her life and the life of all her schools friends and peers was put at risk by this womans appalling behaviour.

    I do not judge her substance abuse problem or her mental health issues but I judge the decision making skills that made her get in the car that drunk.

    By the sounds of it this isnt the first time she’s driven drunk but just the first time she’s had an accident or been caught.

    May she get help and become a good parent and contributing member of society.

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    JL

    Thanks Mia….I actually have been called a bad person cos i didnt breastfeed. After reading this, while i sit here with my pelvis grinding and 7 month pregnant and a little emo cos im on bed rest, i feel better about myself as a parent! I love my little man and i have suffered with anxiety disorder and depression and the one thing they tell u not to do is drink! So….u dont drink. I didnt drink for 2 years while i was in the thick of it and everyone around me was very supportive and kept an eye on me. I didnt have my son then, but if i get any anxiety i make sure i stay away from wine, and i make sure to go chat with my doctor about it and i talk with my husband about it! Actually i am not really a drinker now cos of all the time off from drinking so its been the silver lining!
    This woman clearly needs help. And i agree with everything u have said and thanks for making me feel like a good mum cos i know i work really hard to be a good mummy, even from my stupid bed that i have to stay in alll the freaking time!! its worth it! im growing another cute little human that i am too excited to meet! and i will remember to tell the judgy pants brigade when they are making me feel crap for bottle feeding all about this article!
    Thank you and i do hope this woman get the right kind of help…her husband needs some education on how to help her as well! I am so very happy that no kids including hers were hurt! what a scary day!

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    LindaS

    I think this is a great bookend to Mike McLeish’s story. More people need stand up and speak for the voiceless – in this instance its the children in the car and every other road user and pedestrian on her route. She could have killed someone. People close to her knew she needed help and she clearly hasnt been getting it. Doesnt matter how “lovely” a person she is. Its not right.

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    MikeyMike

    The rest of the article says that she was charged with a variety of drink-driving offences, and her license was immediately suspended.
    If a license was required to have children, I’m sure that would have been suspended as well…..not that I’m judging, I’ll leave that to the judge.

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    Sue

    I understand everyone’s outrage that this mother has put her children and others on the road at risk and her actions are deplorable.

    However, this is obviously a family in crisis. I admire the husband for standing by his wife and asking for people not to judge, as he sees the real person that she is, the “good mum” that she is. If he doesn’t stand by her, what hope does she have?

    I implore this family’s school community, who knew of this families problems and probably “discussed” them freely amongst themselves, to reach out and help them, not judge and ostratice them and their children. They probably feel ostracised enough already. I beg you all to show some compassion and help this family.

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      Tishie

      My concern is that whilst he is supporting his wife he has been non-protective of his children. Aren’t they supposed to come first?

      I admire a man who protects his children

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      Julie

      I agree, Sue. Naturally we are all horrified that children, and others, have been put at risk by this dreadful behaviour … but it is obvious to me that this woman is suffering with alcoholism. She obviously needs HELP – much more than she needs judgement and criticism.

      I hope this awful incident will bring the help this family needs to get over this crisis … and, yes, I also think we all need to show some compassion to her and her family.

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    Singleinoz

    Clapping for Mia!!!

    (any chance the middle section can be fixed/added paragraph spacing I really struggled to read it – thanks)

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    Anonymous

    Judging is part of life. The issue is when we allow our judgements to define ourselves or others.

    I’m glad for you mia that you have never ever done anything that disgraceful and have perfect self control and self regulation skills that it means you never have to feel the shame that comes with screwing your life up.

    I would rather say she has made some bad choices and in those moments was not a good parent.

    I’m so sure every one of us who are brilliant parents in one area lack in others.

    I say- but for the grace of god there go I!

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      Anonymous

      surely there is a line but?

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    Nicole

    Completely inexcusable. I get that she is probably going through issues and has depression. Having had PND myself I get that it can be tough but to put your kids in such a dangerous situation is just terrible.

    At the end of the day there comes a point where you HAVE to take responsibilities for your own actions. Depression can only excuse you so far.

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    belwild

    I think this is a very delicate situation. I think drink driving with kids in the car (or without) is wrong.
    I worry that this woman who is obviously suggling to cope, & now facing public humiliation by this public outcry against her, may be pushed over the edge….
    The poor guy who took his son & jumped off the bridge, was apparently not showing signs of not being able to cope, i think this woman is showing signs of not coping….

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    Son

    Judge all you like. But what these people really need is help and support – fast. Look at the case of the man who threw his baby (and himself) off the bridge yesterday. Too late to judge him now. She needs HELP, not judgement, before it’s too late for her too.

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    Sav

    You nailed it, Mia. Nailed it.

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    bee

    Great article. Thanks of being honest too- anyone who says they dont judge is lying!

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    Viv

    Well said, Mia! I’ll shout from the rooftops with you on this, anytime!

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    R

    Yeah Mia agreed! Crime and punishment should go hand in hand, people should be made responsible for there actions, especially those that endanger children and the lives of others.
    For goodness sake I think I get judged more severely if my child has junk food!

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    Anonymous

    Judge her actions yes, but any other assumptions we make are just that – assumptions. The newspaper does not give us enough details to assume that drink driving was a regular occurrence, or how much family support she did or didn’t have.

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      bextraordinary

      regular occurence or not, there is NO excuse to drink drive

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        Anonymous

        I agree there’s no excuse for drink driving. I’m just suggesting that based on the newspaper article, any additional judgements we may make about the situation are based on assumptions rather than facts.

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    Jess88

    Oh Mia, I so agree with every sentiment you have made here.
    Any of you mothers out there who feel like you’re not doing a good job as a parent because you didn’t breastfeed or buy your kid that expensive toy, or sometimes buy take away for tea when you’re too exhausted to cook just need to read this article to know that you’re doing a truly outstanding job.

    There’s a woman who frequents my local RSL, I’d say she’s probably about 7 months pregnant now, she’s always blind drunk and having a ciggie in the smokers area when I see her there, and yes, you’re damn right in assuming I judge this woman and anyone in her family who lets her do this to her unborn child, if she can’t love it in the womb, hows she going to be a good parent once it’s born?

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      JosieY

      What I WANT to do is to tell you that this woman needs help, not judgement. Then I would ask you what you have done to help her… but I know that in cases like this there is really nothing that can be done by you, a stranger, even if you offered. So judge away!

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        Jess88

        You’re absolutely right, I could have asked her if she needed help but I fear that any approach of the topic by me would be met with a punch in the face and a snarl to mind my own business.

        Rightly or wrongly I think that most people in these situations feel that as a stranger its not *my* responsibly to help but only to judge the person in question and the people in their life who SHOULD be helping them but seemingly aren’t.

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    anon

    I think this should be a good warning to all parents about letting their children go home with other families from school or kindy who you ‘think’ you know. One of my children was going to play at her friends house. Friends mum was to collect them from kindy and take them home and then I would collect later that afternoon. While chatting to another mum at dropoff that morning, I told her about the planned playdate that afternoon. And thankgod, she took the brave step to tell me. She said ‘you know stinks of wine most afternoons’. I didnt because I did my pickup earlier than the other mum. She then told me there is no way on earth she would let her child get into that womans car. So I cancelled the playdate with a made up excuse and told the kindy teacher about the conversation. I dont know what ever became of it because the family left that kindy at the end of the term but I am forever grateful to the brave mum who told me. And have become a lot more protective about who drives my kids around.

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      Laura

      How do you know this wasn’t just unfounded gossip?

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        anon

        the other mum saw her each day at pickup and said there was no doubt that she had been drinking most days

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    Ebony

    Gee I feel sorry for her school aged kids… Can you imagine the grief they’re going to cop from all the other kids! Totally judging here too by the way.

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      Michelle

      That was my first thought. Ive been that kid – the version of events in my head anyway… my mother remembers it a bit differently :/
      I copped it bad at school for a long time, and it wasnt my fault :(
      I really hope that those kids have someone they can talk to …

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        Ebony

        That must have tough.. Kids can be so cruel and relentless in their teasing. I wonder if the mum even thinks about that side of it?!?!

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    burra5

    Bad! Bad parenting for both of them – her for been so irresponsible and him for tolerating her drinking/depression and not seeking the right help.
    When innocent children are involved, it’s just bad.
    And the school KNEW? what’s that all about.

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    AquaFey

    So the message here is that it’s not okay to judge some things but it’s okay to judge others? That breastfeeding and how you dress fall into the category of personal choices but that a mentally ill woman lacking common sense support making a personal choice needs to be judged BECAUSE of the possible consequences? Breastfeeding advocates and conservative dressers everywhere would disagree.

    It’s a pretty slippery slope when it comes to judgement. And true, we live in a society where even our entertainment gives us a 13 number to call up an judge your favourite (or least favourite) housemate / singer / island dweller / chef. Now more than every we are culturally consigned to judge, from our lounge chair. From our safe distance. Without actually having experiences that give us any ability to make such judgements.

    Surely what’s missing here is compassion & understanding. Finger waggling may not prevent this happening again. Consideration of the issues underpinning this heartbreaking story just might, if they came without the moralising and with a cup of kindness.

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      Kathy W

      Yes a mentally ill woman is being judged because of the possible consequences AND because she had a bunch of ‘enablers’ around her who obviously knew what was going on and did nothing to prevent it.

      Compassion, understanding, cup of kindness – phooey! Where would that have got the families of those she could possibly have killed?

      Call it like it is.Dumb. And I am firmly on my high horse for this one.

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      Lu

      I think the difference here is her actions were illegal and potentially could kill people. Not breastfeeding or wearing a short mini skirt isnt against any law.

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      Cait

      I think the pretty clear distinction is whether or not someones choices are hurting anyone else.

      Dressing and childrearing choices are much less likely to harm (with obvious exceptions) compared to those who drink, then drive. Depression is highly unlikely to stop you from realising those consequences.

      Imagine how her mental health would be if the result was that she hit and killed someone, if not herself.

      The line is pretty clear to me. She took a risk. One which i doubt was a first time offence when she got caught (usually doing school pickup, but evidence suggests shes a heavy drinker regularly).

      She is a bad parent.

      She now needs to be given the help she deserves to combat the demons.

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    Ally

    My reaction to the article was just “how awful”. How awful for the kids. How awful for the parents. How awful for everyone at the school.

    That said, I agree with the statements on judging. One of the most frustrating things I encountered when going back to uni to do a social work degree was the constant ‘be non-judgemental’ brigade. I disagree. I make judgements all day everyday. If I look out the window and see that its cloudy, I make a judgement that it might rain, and I should probably take an umbrella.

    What I think is more important, is not that we shouldnt judge, its that we should be aware of what we are judging, why we are judging it, how our own attitudes might colour that judgement, and most importantly, what are we going to do with that judgement?

    Are we going to sit on a preachy moral high ground? Or are we going to make a judgement that (say in this case) the kids are in danger, and therefore the family needs help?

    We should always judge. Thats how we make decisions. But we should always make sure that our judgement is correct, and that it leads to an appropriate response.

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      Chookie

      Yes! Great explanation of the difference between different types of judging! I like to call the first one evaluating, just to make a distinction. I’m perfectly OK with evaluating that I need that umbrella, or that behaviour is not OK.

      For me, I think that ‘judgement’ implies that you’re bringing a level of bias or preconception to the table in making that evaluation, or that you are extrapolating the evaluation to make a generalisation about the person.

      So for example an evaluation might be: x is gay. That’s just a statement of fact. But if you make that statement based on their behaviour or appearance with no actual knowledge of their sexuality, it’s a judgement. Similarly if you say because they are gay they must be [insert generalisation here] that is also a judgement.

      In this case I think we can evaluate to say this woman’s behaviour is not OK. What she did was illegal, immoral, and all sorts of wrong. We can also say that in this instance she was a bad parent. What we can’t say is that she is always a bad parent.

      However it also appears that her enablers were so busy ‘supporting her’ and ‘not judging her’ that they also forgot to evaluate her behaviour and her ability to properly parent her children! That’s why the distinction is so important.

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    Judging too

    Here, here…
    The woman lost the right to be called “good parent” when she drank herself into oblivion and then got behind a wheel of a car WITH A CHILD on her way to pick up ANOTHER CHILD/REN. Good mothers don’t put their children’s safety or lives at risk. They lead by example and thank heavens the principal called the police. Maybe now she will learn how to become a good parent.

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      Amanda

      Well I truly hope you never suffer from the illness and despair that this woman is suffering from. ‘maybe now she will learn to become a good parent?’ you are this kind of attitude seriously make me feel ill to my stomach. Show some compassion….

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    erin23

    I completely agree with you Mia. I read this yesterday and was horrified. I don’t judge about a lot of things, but when it comes to the important stuff I find it’s very hard to have your opinion heard without the PC brigade shouting over the top of you – and at the end of the day, who suffers if parents are exempt from judgment? Their poor children.

    Another example – I was at the shops on Sunday and I saw a family at the checkout, Mum, Dad and a little girl about 3 or 4 years old. She looked like she hadn’t been washed in days – she was covered in grime, her hair was matted and she was wearing nothing but a t-shirt and underwear. Not even shoes. She was crying “Mum, Mum, Mum” over and over and her parents were just ignoring her. I wanted so desperately to go and buy her a pair of shorts and some thongs, but I didn’t, because I was scared of what would happen if I interfered (I also had my 5 month old with me). To me, they looked like neglectful parents. Are we so against judgment now that people can openly neglect or abuse their children in public and nobody will say anything?

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    Anonymous

    Judgemental here too….no matter what is going on at home there is no excuse for getting behind the wheel of a car when drunk!

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    Natasha

    Yes I agree 100%. We keep excusing bad behaviour, she had depression , she suffers mental illness. People will continue to be reckless if we keep justifying reasons for them doing so. This mother is a bad parent. This father is equally as bad for allowing the mother the keys to the car knowing what she is capable of. God forbid if she hit a child whilst under the influence. I am horrified by this story and what could have been.

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    Dale

    Couldn’t agree more Mia. One of the biggest barriers to child protection is our “adult head” where we relate to the adult in the situation. We need to continually ask “but, is that good enough for a child.” I think the answer in this case is a very loud “NO”

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    rainbow

    where was her husband when she needed him? her extended family? her friends?

    if i was a parent at the school who had regular dealings with this mum i would also feel bad. she has to sort out her own issues but we live in a community people should reach out to her.

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    Diana The Huntress

    I agree and disagree. Judge the action, certainly. Judge someone who does something deliberately to cause hurt, or does something in a clear frame of mind with no regard to the outcome. But. Mental illness is a hideous, insidious beast. One which unfortunately causes desperate people to self-medicate. By all means be a champion for the vulnerable. I’m an animal rights activist and I absolutely judge people who take pleasure in hurting animals. But I don’t put that in the same ballpark as someone who is, say, a pathological hoarder or clinically depressed and isn’t a great “owner” because of that. The action in this article is inexcusable, yes. Should she be allowed to be sole carer or a driver at this point? No. But the person sounds vulnerable, lost and is no doubt right now judging herself 10 times as harshly as anyone else could. If you’re not a person with mental health issues severe enough to cloud your judgment in such a way, don’t feel superior. Feel very, very lucky. Because you are.

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    misssinderella

    I don’t think it is a hard one at all. Bad parent.
    Drunk behind the wheel of a car = bad
    Drunk behind the wheel of a car with children = very bad
    Drunk behind the wheel of a car with children and at a school = nightmare scenario
    Mummy needs rehab and some proper psychiatric attention to deal with her demons.

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    Mary

    Perhaps you would like to add a number or website where people who are dealing with similar issues of depression or alcoholism (either themselves or friends/family of) can get some help, or more information. Something helpful. Here are a couple: for people dealing with alcoholism – http://www.aa.org.au, for people dealing with depression or other mental illness – http://www.sane.org or http://www.beyondblue.org.au

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    Lu

    I dont know how she could even walk to her car let alone remember it was bell time at school. Its really very sad for the whole family, but the woman is very lucky she didnt kill anyone. I hope this is the kick up the bum and the rock bottom she clearly needed to hit and seeks help.
    But, what do you do when you know someone going through this? They say her drinking problem was widely known. If we know someone like this who do we alert and dob them in to? How do you help them and stop them when they dont want help and truly believe they are doing their best, and like her husband believes, she is being a good mum?

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      Anonymous

      I wonder if she was aware enough to know it was time to pick up the kids surely she was aware enough to call a friend, her husband or even the school to say she’s in no state to drive.

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    Craig

    The father seemed to be aware of her ‘demons’ and must have known she picked up her kids from school (I assume this was not just a once off) but didn’t intervene. He has a problem too.

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    Stacie

    Just to clarify, the incident actually happened in Berwick, Victoria not NSW.

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      Mia

      Thanks – changed!

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        Stacie

        You’re welcome.

        I was shocked when I heard this story this morning. Berwick is a suburb over from where I live. Not much of note usually happens around here. If anything it truly is lucky that nobody has injured. Maybe now she can get the help she needs.

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    Becxtar

    If this is the fathers impression of a “good mum” what does it take for her to be a “bad mum”

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    frazun

    Judge away, Mia. Totally agree that this is no time to be wishy-washy about something. There are no excuses for certain behaviour – there are times when sob stories are irrelevant to what has been done. Sometimes people just do the wrong thing and in some fortunate cases the decision impacts nobody else, other times the decision can be devastating. Perhaps it is a wake-up call to others as well to stop making excuses and do something.