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Do you ever want to take some kids away from their parents? I know we’ve all have bad days and moments of frustration, especially while shopping, but I wonder how some people can be parents at all.
I apologise for the language in this article, but it is necessary. This is an accurate account of an incident that occurred while I was grocery shopping with my daughter this morning.
We were walking from the parking lot to the travelator when I heard a man say, “Fuck!” This got my attention because the shopping centre I go to is very family-friendly and as it was mid-morning it was mostly parents, children and some older people going about their day.
I looked up and saw a little boy aged about four running up the walkway. Two adults were walking behind him and I assumed they were his parents.
The little boy was running just ahead of them (as children do) and the man was striding purposefully behind him.
He then said, “Fuck! I’m so fucking sick of you fucking running off when we’re at the shops. I’ve fucking had enough.”
I had picked my daughter up at this stage and was trying to observe while avoiding eye-contact. They got on the travelator right behind me. His little boy had returned to them by this stage.
I then heard the dad say, “No, I’m not holding your fucking hand now. No fucking way. Not when you’ve been fucking running off again.”
The little boy walked up the travelator ahead of where my daughter and I were standing. He smiled at me and I smiled back at him. He didn’t seem abused or upset. He was obviously used to this sort of language.
I then heard the woman I assumed to be the mum say something quietly. These were the first words she’d spoken during the entire episode.
He responded, “That’s right. That’s twenty minutes now. That’ll teach you to fucking running off like that.”
I’ve never been closer to taking a child away from his parents before. I wanted to grab him in my arms and take him home. I just felt so sorry for him. I couldn’t believe the language over what was normal behaviour for a little boy and he wasn’t running very far ahead at all. My kids always run up that ramp and we laugh as they try and scare me when I come around the corner seconds after them.
I walked away. To be honest I was a little frightened. This man was belligerent. He was loud. He was very angry and he was very rude.
I might have a chip on my shoulder but I’m pretty sure anyone would find his behaviour offensive. I hoped it was just a bad day. I hoped he was a good dad most of the time. I clung to the fact the little boy had smiled at me and hadn’t seemed upset at all.
We were at the bread shop when I heard shouting.
“Fuck you, mind your own business you fucking prick.”
Me and everyone else in the shopping centre turned around. This belligerent dad was now at the butcher. It’s one of those butcher shops where the guys are really friendly and yell out greetings and specials to passing customers. They’d obviously taken offence to this man’s choice of language and were braver than I was to say something.
The man was very angry now and gesturing wildly. He was walking away shouting so I couldn’t hear exactly what he was saying but there was more swearing and the woman/mother had her head down and was leading her son away.
I felt sick. How could we all stand by and let this happen? I thought of saying something but I was too scared. I thought of calling the police but if they picked him up for anything, perhaps anti-social behaviour, wouldn’t he be angrier when he got home? Short of following them to their car and writing down their licence plate I couldn’t think of what else to do.
More importantly, was it any of my businesses at all?
I’ve come across frustrated mothers but I can usually offer a smile or a sympathetic look and try not to judge. I’ve had my moments of frustration too when I’ve snapped at my kids in public, usually after they’ve given me a huge fright by hiding or doing something dangerous. After one particular episode, an older woman said to me, “Don’t worry love, it will get better as they get older.” I looked at her and smiled and then burst out crying.
But I think this was a bit different and I felt outraged, scared and helpless at this dad’s crazy behaviour.
I once saw a mother hit her child across the face in the parking lot at bowling. I was with my brother-in-law and without a moment of hesitation he had a go at her. She walked away, telling him to mind his own business. I assumed the boy had almost gotten hit by a car or done something extremely terrible and while I choose not to hit my kids, I realised it may have been a rare occasion that I’d just witnessed. My brother-in-law, on the other hand, wasn’t having a bar of it. He yelled out, “Some people shouldn’t be allowed to have kids!”
Have you ever come across bad parenting and if you have, do you say or do anything? It’s a tough call. At the end of the day my priority is my safety and that of my children. I just can’t get this out of my head.
Should everyone be allowed to have kids? We could be tested or assessed. But then, how do you do that to people? Isn’t it our biological right to have children? It’s a free world after all and I doubt I would have been approved if I’d been assessed to have kids. I wasn’t quite sure I wanted to but figured I may as well because I so bored of my job. Now I’m the happiest mother of three possible, but how would they have known that?
Jo Abi is the author of the book How to Date a Dad: a dating guide released by Hachette Livre Australia. You can read more about her many and various exploits here and follow her on Twitter here.
Do you think everyone deserves to be a parent?
Comments
319 Comments so far
So, because someone swears they are an unfit parent? There really are more serious things to be concerned about. Some people swear, it’s a personal choice and the f word doesn’t hold as much clout as it used to. Heck, even I use it fairly freely, although I try to keep it out of ear shot of my kids. Not everyone can be a holier than thou non-swearing tantrum tolerating perfect parent.
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Sorry to say it, but your attitude disgusts me. Ever heard of putting what is best for the child above your own selfishness or laziness? Is it really that hard to stop yourself from swearing around children?
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It’s the woman’s fault for going out with a moron. If we all told them to go away the moment they started acting inappropriately, then the world would be a far far nicer place.
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Mostly I wish I was a braver person, because I see these kinds of things all the time and it breaks my heart. I don’t think everyone is fit to raise children. I wish I was braver to approach the child rather than the parent because these parents aren’t open to feedback or constructive criticism. They’d rather be right than worry about their children’s health and happiness and take it more seriously. I’d like to be braver to approach the child and let them know that this isn’t normal or okay and it isn’t their fault and hand them Lifeline’s number in case they ever need to talk to someone, heck, hand them my number. I’d love to sit down with them for an hour and give them a biscuit or two and a milky cup of tea and just ask how their day was and what their favourite things are, because I assume their parents never do. It’s so tough. It’s not even the type of thing you can report, and I find that very sad. I wish I had the answers too.
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Of course not. Not everyone should be allowed to have kids, no way.
My mum is a lower primary teacher in a low-socio economic area – has been for my whole life. She has many horrible stories about really young children. Some whose parents are obviously addicts and just keep having kids. There’s one six year old in her class who is responsible for two younger siblings. There’s many days she doesn’t come to school at all because she couldn’t get there. She often tells my mum about sleeping on the couch, about her mums “friends” who come and go out of her life. She rarely has lunch or clean clothes. Teachers can do nothing about it but alert the authorities, who do nothing. My mum has always, since before I can remember, bought food to school for these special kids and bought them little presents like textas and stamps.
So no, some people should not be allowed to have children.
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I had to read this because I have been guilt if dropping the f-bomb around my kids. And i was about to brace mysekf ti be toms i shoukdnt have kids! Usually it’s when I’m tired, it’s been one of those days and I just lose my cool. But unlike this man I am wrecked with guilt afterwards. My 5 to son has (surprisingly only just) dropped it back. It was a good time for me to tell him it isn’t nice language and neither he or I should use it. We’ve both. Been f-bomb free since then (unless I go behind a closed door and spit out a dozen f… F… F’s….!).
In regards to should people be allowed to. Evonne parents, it’s interesting that couples who need to use IVF for baby making are required to get a police check. Which is ridiculous because these are usually people who are desperate to have children and prepared to committ financially and very physically to do so….
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Yes the examples you give are not good examples of parenting. I am shocked though that you were shocked and thought removing the child was the only option. The damage to the child by removing from their parent is in most cases far greater than the behaviour they experience from their parent. Your reaction suggests you have been living under a rock. The example you provide are happening in many homes and public places across Australia. As a society we are letting such behaviour be “ok” – how many times now do we hear the f-bomb on television where it has become normalised such that for the Dad in your example he was doing nothing more than using “acceptable” language. I am not excusing the examples but please get out from the under the rock and accept that our society is effectively condoning such behaviour and that we as a society have to raise the bar but also acknowledge too that for generations of people the behaviour you witnessed, sadly, is “normal” for them.
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Very true. It’s got to the point where we even have acronyms for our swearing, FFS.
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Of course it’s our biological right to have kids, but that doesn’t mean the gene pool doesn’t need clorine. I teach and every year there are those kids we see and wonder “What in God’s holy name is wrong with you?” This does not include special needs students, btw. Then we meet the parents and everything is explained. We pity the child for the parents. My husband is a paramedic and most of his patients are people suffering from a rampant case of stupidity or lack of self control- far fewer with actual medical conditions.
We’ve tried so hard for so, so many years to have our own kids, including three failed adoptions because social services decided the kids would be better off with family members who knew they were being abused (one through child porn) and did nothing. That with all the miscarriages makes for a total of seven lost children, thousands of wasted dollars, and month after month of heartbreak for ten years.
That all makes me wish that everyone should have to try as hard and at least get a taste of what we and everyone else in our situation go through just to try and have one child to love. Then maybe parents like those described would be a bit better toward their kids.
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I was on a train once and witnessed a father bullying his son. The boy (about 7) was very placid and gentle and i heard the father laughing very loudly at him and saying “Do you think your special or something?! You’re not special AT ALL! You’re just a sissy! You’re a little sissy boy!!!! Don’t EVER think you’re special, because you’re NOT!!” The boy looked so hurt and the just kept coming.
All I could think was that this is how school bullies are made. So sad.
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It may be just me, but I get the feeling that these days, more people are inclined to say something when faced with these kinds of incidences.
This article demonstrates that the ‘your kid your rules’ stance is going the the say way as the blind eye we may have once turned to spousal abuse. I’d wager that public awareness about issues like family violence, expanded definitions of family violence and public awareness and campaigns targeting bullying are also helping.
At my daughter’s preschool, the director ‘sacked’ a parent on the spot, after she slapped her son across the face for being unruly when she came to pick him up from preschool. I asked the director if she was concerned for the welfare of the boy once the mother took him home and she said she was, but she could not in good conscience take on a client like that and she hoped the mother realised that that kind of behaviour is not to be approved and or tolerated by wider society.
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My counsellor gave me a book about dealing with verbally abusive people. In it is a story from a woman who wrote to the author about something she had witnessed. Basically she was leaving a swimming pool one night and there was a mum with her young daughter in front of her. The mum was berating the young girl for being so useless at her lessons, for not trying, for making her and her father angry at her because she was so useless, that they would stop taking her to lessons as it was a waste of time and money. So the the lady asked the author what she should have done. She said she did nothing because she was afraid that speaking up would make it worse for the little girl, that perhaps her mum would then hit her when they got home if she spoke up and angered her. The author basically said that yes the mum could have become even more abusive towards the little girl out of sight or perhaps not. But in speaking up the little girl would at least have experienced someone standing up for her, that she would have had outside confirmation that what was happening was not right. Because as a child whatever your parents say or do to you is what you perceive as normal, even if what they do makes you feel so incredibly sad, you stil accept it.
So with that in mind I always say something. My husband is mortified by me but I don’t care. And to the stock standard “mind your own business” I always retort “in speaking to your child in such a loud and obnoxious manner you have made it my business, I couldn’t help but overhear you”. I shake like a leaf afterwards and my voice breaks and tears come to my eyes but I don’t care.
Everybody stood by and let my dad verbally and emotionally abuse me and my mother and 3 brothers. To be honest it is the fact that no one did anything about it that I find the hardest to deal with and I still am very, very angry at all the so called adults in my life growing up who chose to do nothing. And now I am an adult I won’t be one of them.
I do try and bite my tongue when my kids are with me though, I don’t want to expose them to that.
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Yes, excellent advice. The perceived normality of that kind of treatment can have such profound effects on the kids. Good on you for standing up.
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My best friend is a great mum who loves and provides for her kids without limits but she swears so much at them. The f-word is just part of their daily life. The kids aren’t allowed to swear back but I still find it a little awkward as I have taught my daughter that swearing is a big no no. Each to their own who am I to tell her how to parent.
On the topic of abuse. Long before I had my child I worked in retail and I was serving a lady who for whatever reason was very agitated at her child who was sitting in a stroller quietly. I’m guessing the kid was around 18 months old and was doing something he wasn’t supposed to and out of no where in front of me she open handedly hit him with force in the face. I think he was eating something she told him not to, total over reaction. After I got over my initial shock and disbelief at what I’d had a front row seat to, I felt it was wrong of me to not say something. I was this childs voice in this situation and with the silent support of other shocked customers and staff I told her if she hit her child like that again in front of me I would call the police. She was a foreigner (I’m not going into which nationality) but the look she gave me was like she thought she’d done nothing wrong, like it was a cultural difference, it was weird. She pretty much ignored what I had said and continued shopping while her child screamed. It was so distressing to know this was normal for the child and there was nothing I could do about it. Having a 3 year old now myself I can’t ever imagine behaving like this so to answer the question I do believe some people don’t desrve to be parents. No wonder there are so many messed up people in the world.
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I was at a playground at the local shopping mall and an 8 or so year old boy was scaring my son so I asked him to stop but he continued, so I asked his mother to get him to please stop scaring my little boy (who was 4) – the older kid was wearing a skeleton sweater with a skull hood zipped over his face. The mother yanked her son, yelled at him, then lay him down on the ground and sat astride his arms, with his head between her legs. (She was extremely fat and heavy.) The boy was wriggling about and shouting to get off him. Her friend kindly explained to me that the boy suffers from Asperger’s syndrome, and this is how she deals with it! It was awful. I felt sick and I felt like telling the security guy at the mall or something but ended up doing nothing
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LOL!! my son has Asperger’s syndrome and if I ever did that to him I’d be facing consequences …..first : he’d bite my butt. Then become enraged for at least a few hours. A simple slap is off limits, it makes him murderous .
I have Asperger’s myself and it implies very strong aversion to being restrained . It triggers horrible claustrophobia . If anyone sat on my face they’d better either kill me or be outstanding runners. I think I would have told someone .
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A warning to all parents who have ever yelled or heaven forbid smacked their children or even worse had a bad day and maybe sworn in public at their kids you will be under attack. (This apparently means you are an abuser).
A lot of these people sound like they are have such well behaved children and perfect little lives that they see it as their business to interfere with others lives. Sorry for not being a perfect parent and I hope I never cross paths with you when my three year old is having a tantrum in the lolly aisle. Funnily you would probably be the ones then to tell me to discipline my children when they are being naughty. Hmmmmm There is a difference between discipline and abuse – a big difference..
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I appreciate your point of view, but I think you’ve misunderstood. Someone disciplining their child – a proportionate, measured response – is very different to someone abusing their child.
For instance, in the example that Jo gives in the article, I felt it became abuse when the father refused to hold his son’s hand. If you are annoyed about your child running off, wouldn’t you actually do the opposite, and insist on holding their hand? His language doesn’t really bother me, but the attitude seemed to be that his son was nothing more than a ratbag who was deliberatly behaving in the most infuriating way possible, instead of a little boy delighted to be out and about with his mum and dad.
I work in customer service, and have for over a decade. I am used to seeing people swear, and having them swear at me; I am used to seeing people affected by drugs and alcohol and having to take steps to ensure my own safety and the safety of others. I know the difference between a rational person having a bad day, and a person abusing someone else, because they think they can. I think most other people do too; not everyone, but most people.
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I wasn’t there so I can’t comment on the situation you were describing but I will say that in a lot of cases, Australia is so far away from truly protecting children. Government agencies are so reluctant to remove children from dangerous and abusive parents that it perpetuates the risk of ongoing trauma.
It makes me so mad that we can sit back and leave kids in these sorts of situations.
I might be biased but as someone who is desperate to adopt a child, it is so frustrating when there are crap parents and so many people left wanting. The children would be so much better off in another home in some circumstances.
It is easier for us to adopt from overseas than it is to adopt from our own country. Its disgusting that we don’t seem to have the right infrastructure and processes in place to handle the children who shouldn’t be with undeserving parents
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It makes me so mad that we can sit back and leave kids in these sorts of situations.
You think that the child talked about in the article needed to be removed from his parents and put in a foster home????
The little boy obviously had no fear of his father as he ran off not once, but twice. The writer even mentioned that the child was smiling…
He smiled at me and I smiled back at him. He didn’t seem abused or upset.
You honestly want that child removed from his parents??
I go to the shopping centre and I see fat mothers feeding their fat children chips and I think that they are unfit mothers as they don’t care two hoots about the long term health of their children…shall we remove those kids from their parents as well and put them in a foster home?
If only perfect parents who were perfect 100% of the time were allowed to keep their kids no one would have any kids.
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Applying supernanny’s time-out rule, namely : a minute a year , a time out for this boy would be 4 minutes so he probably ran off 5 times .
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I just felt the need to comment on the issue of the child ‘seeming happy and ok’
This sort of argument is often used to discount serious abuse. Children who are abused don’t necessarily cry or show fear and in most case genuinely love their parents. I’m not saying that is this situation the child was in danger, I’m just pointing out the danger of a response that tries to justify what was poor behaviour on the part of the parent (regardless of the reasons he displayed such behaviour)
For anyone that does have concerns about dealing with this behaviour I’d really encourage undertaking some Child Safe Environments Training – particularly the DECD approved one in SA.
One of the things to always ask yourself is what is in the best interest of the child’s long term welfare – not what the parent’s intentions were. People with very good intentions can still do very bad things (accidentally) and we all have a responsibility to ensure that children are able to grow into competent and healthy adults.
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You clearly have no idea about the dynamics of an abusive family, please do some research prior to sharing your ignorant ideas.
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It is almost,certain that a man who is that out of control in public is also abusive to his partner. Also, in some situations like that, the woman instinctively does whatever it is that would provoke the least amount of abuse, and sometimes that means going along with one level of abuse in the (very calculated) view that it will stop him escalating to the next level. This scenario of course takes away the whole question of who deserves what. Does a child or his mother ‘deserve’ protection?
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just in terms of the swearing – alot of the time I think it is just part of the parents language, the kids don’t even realize it is a bad word, it is all a matter of perception. I will never forget being in a toilet stall and hearing this little kids (about 2 I would guess) saying “Mum mum I got s**T all over my bum, mum I can’t get the s**t off. “and Mum saying “hang on I will help get the s**t off in a minute.”Obviousy this was just their word for poo!! The little fellow didn’t know any better but this will cause a huge problem for him later down the track at school.
Also parents do have bad moments, doesn’t mean they can’t grow into thier roles. My mother who I love dearly and I think did an excellent job overall did once whip me with a steel ruler cutting up my legs. This was a low moment, for her and for me but stood alone – not as part of a pattern of abuse. She was a person trying hard as she could in a very difficult time. I was a very messed up kid, she had depression, my dad had left and we were always so poor it was a struggle to get by. I didn’t respect her and was very difficult to handle and this one time she lost it. I don’t hold it against her. I would never hit my kids but I have many advantages as a result of her struggles to help us and better our situation. I have an education and a strong support system. I have information at my finger tips on ways to get help/advice if things become difficult. My mother had none of this.
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Thanks for sharing your story. I think you’re right: kids might find these swear words normal if they hear them often enough, and as a result the words are not offensive, and certainly no scarier than the yelling. That’s not saying what the father in the shopping centre did was right, but he may not have known any better way of dealing with it.
There are plenty of bad parents out there, ones who do sickening, awful things to their children… and on the outside they are ‘perfect’. Abuse – to spouses and children – occurs in all levels of society and it’s wrong to think that it only occurs in families who display anger or bad language in public. There is so much more to abuse than poor discipline techniques.
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Often children don’t have a voice and in a situation like this we need to be their voice to ensure the child’s best interests are at heart.
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Just yesterday I was on the train and overheard a young man calling his girlfriend a “c%nt” and “fa#$ot” on the phone. I was quite disturbed to begin with, but minutes later he mentioned the child that they had together. Horrific.
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My stepbrother has been an alcoholic since he was 18 (he’s 32 now). About 4 years ago he got his girlfriend- also an alcoholic- pregnant. They have a beautiful son Jack who is just such an amazing little boy but I feel so sorry for him! My stepbrother has a major anger problem and has thank fully never touched him but often puts holes in their walls and pushes his girlfriend around, all in front of jack. DOCS and the police have been called many times yet nothing has been done. They literally sit at the pub from opening and until closing drinking with their mates while poor jack plays with the other children in the children’s area. They spend all their money on booze and the few times I’ve been called to pick them up at night because they have spent their bus/cab money on booze, often jack hasn’t eaten all day, hasn’t slept, and it’s around 10.30-11.
They are both so paranoid that someone ie my parents or myself will take jack away from them, that I’m sure we don’t hear the half of what really happens behind closed doors.
Even though jack is such a beautiful boy and has brought so much happiness into our lives, I often wish he hadn’t been born because he will not be given the life a child deserves.
They do not have the right to be parents and have children.
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Please take Jack out of that situation and protect him. Whatever way you can. Otherwise, one day when it’s too late, you may wish you had.
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I totally understand you. Mi niece doesn´t have an exterme situation as your nephew, but her parents doesn´t respect her sleep and her eating. She often eats only spaguetti and chocolate milk. She wakes up at 12 in the afternoon and right now she is not going to school. I am so frustated. I love her and I want the best for her, but what I see is that my brother and mi niece´s mother only think is about themselves.
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This article bought tears to my eyes.
As a child my mother would swear at me, hit me, among many other punishments. She was also an alcoholic and later developed drug addiction.
She also went on to have 4 more children. She cut me off from my father and would regularly move to get away from debt and police issues.
When I was 8 I ran away. I managed to make contact with my father who arranged for me to fly from Queensland to Melbourne ASAP. After a lengthy custody battle, my mother was granted full custody and I was sent back. That was honestly the worst year of my life. Whilst my mother was in a drugged drunken stupor, I was left to raise my siblings.
My father and his family eventually won over and got me back nearly 2 years later. I managed to get my life on track and I graduated high school and begun a successful career.
After my daughter was born I attempted to get to know my mother.
It lasted a month. The first time she met my daughter she was stoned off her head and accused me of being too high and mighty because I wouldn’t lend her money. I have had no contact with her for 3 years now, and I’m finally ok with that.
Sorry for the sad sack story, but it really does make me think some people should not have children. It’s also extremely unfair how the courts are so biased for the mothers.
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What happened to your siblings? Have you kept in contact with them?
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My siblings were sent to live with grandparents about 5 years later.
Unfortunately one of them stayed in contact with her and is now a drug addict. I have one living with me for 3 years now working as an apprentice, and the youngest 2 are still with grandparents. But not on a good track.
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Definitely not. This is a very timely post as I have recently been contemplating the actions of my own parents. Both of them have physically abused me and threatened to kill me, as well as verbal abuse. They also continue to blame me for their problems and blame me for not being the kind of daughter they wanted. I wish they’d never had me.
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One of my neighbours has three kids now aged in their teens, but were very small when we moved here. She’s had several drop kick partners through those years, who, along with her have been using drugs, and after a couple of years, dealing too. Her eldest son now seems to be following her into the “family business”. We regularly hear mother and daughter screaming fighting, the daughter invariably sounding distraught. On more than one occasion we’ve heard the daughter make a run for it after midnight because there’s obviously been some trouble at home. We suspect she hides in some shrubbery in our or another neighbours yard.
As to the question of should everyone be allowed to have children, my answer would be probably not. I think of the life my neighbours children will have and it scares me. The people they’ve been exposed to due to their mothers drug abuse etc. It’s so sad. And there’s thousands like that all over the world.
As for the situation in the article, that is child abuse. You do not need to be hitting your child to be causing them harm. Psychological abuse is every bit as damaging. I speak with some experience on this as I am the child of an abusive father. I saw him abuse and beat my mother, step-mother and step-sister. I’m 30 now, and it was only last year that a counsellor pointed out to me that you only need to witness domestic violence for it to be considered that you too have been abused, due to the psychological trauma it inflicts upon you. Now I do not feel I can compare myself to those who have been physically abused (beaten or sexually etc), but the fact that I witnessed the violent outbursts by my father have certainly left it’s mark.
For medical reasons, I’m choosing not to have children (I don’t produce good collagen, so having the babies would be risky, for them and me). It’s a decision I wrestle with every day. Which makes cases like my neighbour and the little boy in the article tug at my heart strings even more.
I sincerely hope that the father of that little boy was just “having a bad day”, but honestly, probably not. Some people really aren’t cut out to be parents. But that is up to the family courts to look at. Not me.
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This story got me thinking about foster care. I have the time, I have the space and I have the love. A quick google search scared me a some what. I see adds on tv for foster carers all the time but a very brief read from people doing it suggested that the hoops they had to jump through made the process hard. I would love to read a well researched article about the pros and cons of foster care.
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Me too! I’ve thought about it for many years, but I don’t think I’d be eligible as I work part-time. I’m also scared of what it would be like to give the child back once you have bonded with them, especially if there was little warning.
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You should look into it. There are always foster carers needed & in many cases they are long term placements. It really depends on what will suit your lifestyle. A great deal of support is offered for carers these days, you will receive a carers benefit as well as family payments.
My mother was a foster carer, we had both long term & emergency placements during my childhood. Some were totally heart breaking to see them go back to an impossible living situation, some found homes with other family members or we saw families turned around once support was put in place or restraining order was in place for an abusive parent. We eventually adopted my ‘sister’ after she had been in our care for 10 years.
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You do have to go through a fair stringent process due to the fact there are a lot of people who will & have offered their homes for foster care who are not in it for the children’s benefit, but to gain the associated benefits or to continue a ‘new’ sort of abuse.
There are good people out there, like you who want to help children, but as with anything there are people who are not doing it for the right reason.
If you are serious about doing it, you will realise that the process is for both your protection & that of the children put into your care.
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Thanks mizjane, I do realise strict guidelines are very needed for a child’s protection. The stuff I was reading definitely came from a small biased group and the troubles they had working with docs.
I have concerns about bringing a troubled little one into my daughters life but more concerns about not helping when I most certainly can.
Ta for the gentle nudge.
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I hope you get this sent to your inbox! My friend and her partner are raising his little girl – who lived in foster care for the first 4 months of her life (long story – he didn’t even know his ex was pregnant). I know they are eternally grateful that the foster carers gave their daughter the best possible start in life. Maybe you will have to jump through hoops,maybe it will break your heart a little bit – but what your love will give the child and possibly their family will be priceless.
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Who knows, that sort of belligerent behaviour you witnessed could just be an off day for the father, OR it could be the tip of the iceberg.
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This sounds terrible and I can imagine the disbelief at witnessing the whole scene but you also have to wonder, is there a back story to this man? Does e have post traumatic stress, has he just lost his job, is he in a bad patch of a mental illness, has a family member just been diagnosed with an illness etc.. Of course most likely he’s just a psychopath and bad parent but I also think there’s a small chance that maybe he’s not like this all the time and maybe he’s having a bad day/week/month. You have to hope anyway.
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In reply to those who commented to my previous comment, whilst I would not wish her to be here, I also know that it is not fair that she has had to go through what she has in her life and there are many children who have endured far more and as a result are damaged in a far more significant way.
When I suggest that people should be sterilised this does not have to be permanent and is not based on the Hitler race theory my belief is that it should be based on whether or not they are capable of caring for a child.
I don’t profess to be the perfect parent and I’m not suggesting the standard should be perfection, but there are some people who are incapable of looking after children, so as a society I think we need to come to grips with this, my concern is for the children.
I just think we need to have the discussion.
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Whilst I would never swear at my own child, I would never judge someone else for doing so. This sounds to me a story of a parent(s) at his wits end. Unless the child was distraught or terribly upset, I wouldn’t really judge the language used by the father. When you work where I have worked, for the public prosecutor of the State, and seen and read all the hundreds of child abuse cases that come in, it does alter your perception on parenting. I’ve personally been pushed and pushed to my own wits end with my own children and it really is THE hardest job around, so I’m not going to judge another parent who uses bad language, who probably doesn’t even know any better, and tell them they’re doing a bad job. At least they took the little boy out with them!!!!! They also took him to a family friendly shopping centre. Who knows, maybe the boy had had a previous accident or injury from running ahead previously?!?!?
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Wow, that guy’s language was fucking disgusting.
Lame jokes aside, from reading just a few of the comments below, this isn’t just about a father getting a bit aggitated at the shopping centre. I wouldn’t even like to hear someone speak to a dog like that, let alone a child. It shows he has a lack of respect for people. Some people seem to forget that their kids are people. And it is not just about the swearing. He didn’t just let a few swear words slip, it sounds like he was carrying on like a pork chop and making a scene for everyone to hear. Also, the fact that he refused to hold his child’s hand after all that, to me shows that he is not your average loving dad. I find it hard to picture him going home and giving him cuddles and reading him a book if he can’t even muster up enough love to hold his child’s hand when he’s “cranky” because he ran off again. What a weird lesson that is – DON’T run off and DON’T hold my hand because you ran off!! Weirdo. You can be stressed without treating your child like a bit of poo on the bottom of your shoe.
The fact that the mother had her head down also tells me this is not a rare occasion.
I am not sorry for judging someone that swears at a child or mistreats them in any way, shape or form. Treat them with respect and you won’t hear a peep from me. Swear at ANYONE in public like that and you deserve whatever looks/comments you get. Have some respect – for others and yourself.
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But who will decide? This man probably thinks you’re a bad parent because you’re too soft on your kids!
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You realise that you’re calling out for abuse and being “horrified ” by a family whose top punishment is time out, right ? because you wrote the “20 mns” down in the article , you must be aware of what it means . I’m not saying his language was ok, and 20 mns of timeout is too much for a child of 4, but my husband has been known to add timeout to timeout when a behaviour doesn’t stop.That’s called “being at one’s wits end”, and it can make people swear .
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Some people shouldn’t be parents but the reality is they are. Pointing out how feral they are does not really achieve much in cases like those but sometimes kindness can soften people.
We need to support feral parents – so they have a chance to be the best they can be.
My Mum I will always remember for her kindness to lost souls. She fostered kids whe. We grew up and in the 80′s things were relaxed- She befriended one young girls drug addict mother and helped her practically. treated her like she was worth something not a gutter rat. While she was not a great mum she learnt to be a better one when she was given a chance. She eventually had custody of her daughter and I hope they did ok.
Not every story can end like this but I think a bit less judgement and a bit of practical help and kindness can help.
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Poor little mite having to grow up with that kind of erratic behaviour. Sad fact is, he probably is so used to it, he wouldn’t know any different.
A midwife once said to me, and I have never forgotten it: children do not ask to be born, you bring them into the world, you look after them properly.
I wish it was as simple as that for everyone.
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We have a beautiful foster daugther whose mother whilst she loves her dearly has not the slightest clue about being a parent, due in most part to drug abuse.
I am in favour of forced sterilisation so that these people are not able to reproduce.
Sorry if this sounds a little over the top but it is reality, we have many problems in society and this is being exacerbated by people who should not have the responsibility of looking after children.
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I understand your thought process but in enforcing sterilisation we give up on the belief that the individual can change & recover from their addictions or abusive behaviour.
That aside, good on you for taking on a foster child, the system needs more good carers.
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I am in favour of forced sterilisation so that these people are not able to reproduce.
hhhmmm if I remember correctly Hitler was in favour of forced sterilisation too
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Godwin’s Law.
You lose!
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I have three kids aged 10, 8 and 7. As most people know who have children it is not an easy thing and kids can be stressful and frustrating. However, they do not deserve any kind of abuse. With a husband who is a policeman, who comes home with terrible stories of child abuse and neglect, i definitely say, no one deserves to have a child. A child deserves to grow up in an environment of love, safety and security.
I would assume if that father was comfortable screaming abuse at his son in a public area, the little boy unfortunately would get a lot more abuse at home.
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I agree with Sarah…maybe it’s due to my line of work, but my concern from reading the story and the mother’s reaction would be if there is domestic violence in the family…the little boy does seem so used to the bad language that it may seem normal to him…who the hell knows what he is experiencing behind closed doors if his father thinks it is ok to act like a jerk in public??? If that was my husband, I wouldn’t have any hesitation in pulling him into line…but in domestic violence you feel you are powerless, and it’s best to bite your tongue rather than face the consequences – matter of survival.
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No. Having children is not a right. It’s a privilege. What a pity we’re all too scared to make it so, and we turn a blind eye to the rights of children to be safe, well loved and raised in a healthy environment. Shame on us.
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“Having children is not a right. It’s a privilege. ” Beautifully said
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Some people below have taken offence at the tone of this story as overly judgemental and suggest that parental lapses like yelling and abusing are acceptable in the context of an otherwise loving parent. Id like to point out that these behaviours are called BULLYING when they happen in an office environment or schoolyard and are never acceptable. Parenting is hard, stressful, challenging, relentless – no question. But Bullying is not ok, even when its your own kids.
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Not everyone deserves to be parents, if you see something in public call the police, the odds are this family have a history with docs and/or police and this latest incident may have been enough to effect some real change. If we ignore it we don’t act we are saying to that child that it is ok, verbal abuse can severely impact on brain development and have lifelong consequences, and if you think I am judgmental for this post then you are right!! Not everyone should have children!!
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Just because you have the biological equipment to make a baby doesn’t mean you’ll be a good parent. Which is why I’ve never understood people who oppose gay couples adopting or accessing fertility treatment. These are people who want a child, will love them unconditionally and provide for them. There are many many people who have children and don’t love or care for them- but we don’t stop them.
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i’m glad you are not put up to a test before you have children, I was 19 when i fell pregnant with my daughter. I most probably would have failed ANY test i was given in relation to my skills as a parent. But now I believe my daughter has shaped my life into something wonderfully different to anything a 19 year old me would have imagined.
while I might loose it some times at her, I avoid smacking her and foul language.
No child should be abused like this, and it is abuse.
it happens unfortunately more than we care to acknowledge….
what you experienced today was what i also witnessed this morning, trade shopping center for bus, and running away with not sitting still on the seat… everything else was the same, fathers attitude, language and woman sitting beside saying/doing nothing who knows if she was fearful or just thought this acceptable.
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I started out as a registered nurse after uni in a paediatric ward…I lasted 2 months and had to transfer, if I had not have left I would have a) been arrested for assault, b) been arrested for kidnapping or c) had an emotional breakdown.
You see so many children with broken limbs, cigarette burns, shaken baby syndrome, bruises, internal damage from being punched it is heartbreaking, the time I went to work and had a little one who’s parent had forced him to swallow bleach (so IT would have a babysitter for the night, it turned out)was the end of me..
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Oh my god your comment makes me feel sick. I don’t know how you lasted one week. Those poor little kids
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Are you for real? Someone gave their child bleach to get them into hospital so they could go out that night? No wonder you left the job. I could never do it.
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My Mum was a paeds nurse for 20 years, half of that time in the burns unit. There were days she would come home with a red face and puffy eyes and would just go to her room, and we knew to leave her alone because another child had passed away.
When I was a teenager I would visit the kids in her unit sometimes. There was a little girl who was there for several years after a horrific burn, brain damage and injuries from beatings, we all loved her and when she passed away my Mum was devastated. She left the job a year or so later. I don’t think she ever got over it. We have an album of photos of this beautiful child who was abused by her own parents, and yet they were still allowed to take her home after each hospital stay, until she was so ill she had to stay full time. My Mum is very open about everything else but will not talk about the girl’s parents, the circumstances… just how much she loved her and could not save her. She would have adopted her if she could have.
I initially wanted to be in the medical profession, but after seeing what I have (which is not much compared to my Mum) I knew I couldn’t. I’d have kidnapped the kids, just as you said you wanted to.
BTW you are brilliant for being a nurse. Its such a selfless, underpaid job and I totally take my hat off to you.
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I have no words…
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I don’t think everyone is up to the job. Let’s face it – it’s a tough gig at times. This is where tribal society beats us hands down because they spread the parenting load. Children get the benefit of many adult’s attention and it doesn’t matter if mum or dad are having an ‘off’ day (or lifetime). And we think we’re so advanced. Bahahahahaha!
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Not judging parental practices, but no child deserves to live in fear of their own parent.
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Ive worked in schools for over a decade and no, not everyone deserves to be a parent. The horrendous crap some parents put their kids through defies description. There are days when I know my own parenting is not great and I’m certainly not a contender for any mother of the year award. But they are safe, they know they are loved, they are well fed and are warm. That some parents don’t do this for their children breaks my heart.
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It is true, some people should never be parents. My mother should never have been a parent.
But unfortunately she was, and unfortunately I am still trying to deal with all my issues I have because of her.
What’s worse is I am not an only child so I can also see the damage she has done to my siblings aswell.
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My mother has worked in the foster care system, looking after children who can’t/haven’t yet been given a foster home. When I was a teenager, she called me to let me know she would be home late. She had to take one of the children to the hospital.
He had been beaten around the stomach and lower abdomin/back so many times his digestive system had been damaged. I won’t share just what was happening to his little body, as I don’t believe it to be neccessary to share here. But it was horrible and completely undignified.
I met him once, after mum had moved departments and we had lodged paper work to foster them, he and his brother. He was beautiful, just a rascall little boy with a cheeky smile.
His social worker decided it was best if he was returned to his family. While not an abusive person, this relative could offer no protection from those who did want to hurt him.
I can only hope he finds a positive life path, but I do not have high hopes. I hope my mother never finds out what happens to him.
Some people do not deserve to be parents.
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Bloody welfare system and DOCs is crap!!! These people are playing with peoples lives and have thier heads buried in the sand!!
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It’s an absolute joke, and has done very few people right. I don’t know how she worked in that field as long as she did, dealing with the bullshit day after day. Of kids who aren’t given protection, and then put in a system where they can literally get away with anything.
The silver lining? I’m eternally thankful I was born to one parent who did deserve to be such.
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The system is crap. As a teacher I have to liaise with DOCFS (formerly DOCS) regularly and honestly, some of those beautiful people work so hard. Their hands are tied most of the time and they are dramatically under-resourced.
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DOCS staff do the best they can. The system is deeply flawed and they are extremely understaffed.
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The system is deeply flawed and so many workers work so hard and sincerely to try and make what little change they can.
But a few make very bad calls that ruin childrens lives.
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Not everyone deserves to be a parent. I teach high school, I have met lovely people who are totally invested in their children’s lives and others who don’t deserve to draw breath, let alone give and nurture a life. Even more alarming is the continuing trend in unsuitable teen parents. It is just worrying, the neglect, abuse and lack of care for young people.
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I was raised in a home where it was not acceptable ever to swear at a child or for us – the children – to swear at our parents. Ocassionally they did at each other when they fought, but we understood that kids didn’t say those words. I can understand that parents can get to the end of their tether, but I still am a believer in restraining your language around children. I don’t necessarily consider it abusive, but I do consider it poor parenting.
In regards to the example in the story, I think even without the swearing directed at the child, it is enough to raise alarm bells to me. Anyone who acts with such agression toward a complete stranger (the butcher) no matter what was said, would be likely to be even more aggressive in their own home. I also think a lot can be said for intuition when it comes to abuse and inappropriate parenting. Something was obviously ‘off’ to Jo, since she wrote about it and it wasn’t just swearing in general conversation, it appears it was aggressive and directed toward the child. Actually it reminds me of once when I was young and working in a department store and a woman was shopping with a son about ten years old. I barely heard a peep out of him but heard her yell at the top of voice numerous times “you’re a fucking retard” and “why are you so fucking stupid?”. I saw her slap him over the head as well, and it really stuck with me, though I was young and too scared to say anything. I just hope that child is now a reasonably well adjusted adult and I hope someone eventually had more courage than I did.
There are definitely people that don’t deserve to keep the children they already have.
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I’m anonymous today. This is something very close to my heart. I’m a teacher, and over the last year I’ve put in 8 Notifications, often regarding multiple issues regarding a student in my class, regarding violence, sexual knowledge, lack of supervision, sleeping in parks Nd eating out of bins, bringing needles to school, growing drugs, etc etc etc.
This is a family that is known to police and have had other children removed.
This week he has been removed. He loves his family and is heart broken, he knows no different. I’m shattered for him, while also being relived. Hopefully he will have a life, and opportunities and it isn’t too late for him (which I have seen before).
No, all people shouldn’t be parents. Not wanting your kids to taken away, and giving them food and a bed isn’t enough. They need kindness, joy, care, to feel loved and important, good food, a ward safe bed, and a range of other tangibles and intangibles.
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Oh how devastating. You are a good person for not letting it go…
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Amen!! I too am a teacher and have seen these sorts of things way too often, it’s sad for the children, they have not chosen to be brought into this world and to be affected by these things. They could be in families who want them, love them, treasure them, and most importantly treat themhow they deserve to be treated!
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My job is to work with these kids who have been taken into care and are displaying severely complex needs with usually a combination of complex and extreme behavior and mental health needs. I can tell you now some of the stuff I read is horrific. Truly horrific. You can’t even imagine the stuff I have to deal with. So should everyone be allowed to be a parent? In my opinion, no, not if someone has deemed them neglectful or abusive.
If parents are identified as abusing or neglecting their child (neglect can sometimes have more effect on a child’s developing brain than abuse) it needs to be A LOT harder to get them back. The worst part of my job is sometimes reading through these files where the kids have been taken off, given back, taken off given back. And these parents usually do do the courses, they learn what to say and do but it doesn’t last. I’m sick of it and quite frankly the government needs to look into how many of these reunification fail. These kids are sometimes in loving foster homes and go back to these awful parents. It’s heartbreaking.
(NB: I should point out, I work in Queensland, I know some states are much better at giving parents the boot if kids are taken off them.)
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So agree with this. I deal with it everyday in my job as a preschool director in a highly disadvantaged area (and by no way am I saying that abuse and neglect exclusively happen in these areas) and what I witness and hear about is heartbreaking. We spend most of our day feeding the kids healthy food, bathing them, washing their clothes and making them feel like they are the most important people in our universe. It’s really hard giving them back at 3pm but we have to be secure in the knowledge that we are doing the best for them for the time they are with us. I can spend up to an hour a day on hold to DOCS to make a mandatory report,as well as time dealing with other external agencies. Children need someone to fight for them, I really don’t care that much about offending parents anymore.
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Can I just say that I am in awe of the people who work with these kids and do their best, day after day, dealing with such sad and horrific situations? There aren’t really enough words to express my respect and admiration — I hope that the turkeys don’t get you down. Thak you for everything you’re doing and trying to do to make it better for the kids who are at risk.
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As a parent of 3 I love my kids more than life itself and would do anything to protect them in any which way in saying that there have been a number of times where I have yelled, sworn etc at my kids after a horid time with them I think sometimes it just happens, everyone I know with kids has done the same thing a number times it happens . I think if you have not had atleast one episode with your kids at some stage it will come and if you think it won’t your in denial it might be tomorrow or 10 years from now but everyone has meltdowns at some stage or another
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Agree Nikki. Parenting is very hard at all levels. I have a child who is a toddler and frustrates me to no end but is still learning and a 9 year old who is continuously pushing the boundaries and arguing back with me. I do lose it and have lost it at the shops numerous times as it is a necessary evil because without the supermarket then we wouldn’t be able to eat. I’m not talking about real abuse but I think in most cases people should mind their own business.
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here here, whilst the parent cited in the article was very agressive we all lose the plot sometimes. Having a 3 year old that is prone to run off in a carpark I have been guilty of swearing like a sailor in fustration & fear.
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This makes my heart ache, but there’s also a context to it. At my kids school, they have ‘school language’ which it takes lots of the kids a while to get the hang of. It’s even written in the newsletter about home language and reminding the kids what part of it is not school language. Kindy kids come along to their first day with language that would curl your hair.
Where I live, ‘fucking cunt’ is part of every day language. ‘Why didn’t you turn the tap off?’ becomes ‘why the fuck didn’t you turn the tap off you cunt?’. Some of these parents scare the crap out of me because they are so different to everything else I’ve known.
So basically I’m saying I just don’t know. Part of me just wants it not to happen to little kids, part of me has seen it happen when there is truly life affirming, nurturing love happening too. I never want to say it to my kids, but maybe some of those parents don’t want their kid at violin lessons like I do?
Far too easy here to slip into a middle class privledged position.
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It depends (for me) on the aggression levels – which might be there with or without the hair-curling language.
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