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wednesday addams2 It’s easy to be PC – until your daughter wants to join the Addams Family

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When my daughter started kindergarten, we moved to a Sydney suburb on the brink of gentrification. The local primary was up a small lane behind our house and we walked her there, both of us anxious that she would like it and, most importantly, that she would make friends.

This was a suburb known for its diversity, and you could see it in the houses. The Greek and Vietnamese had concreted their front yards, and replaced timber windows with the more practical aluminium. The newly arrived – who worked at the ABC or the University of Technology – were in the throes of renovating and planting native gardens, Vote Green stickers on their cars. There was also a large strip of flats, built in the seventies, furniture dumped out the front, windows broken; these were the cheap rentals, frequently lived in by people with drug and alcohol issues.

People like us – the newly arrived – trumpeted their pride in this diversity, but the reality was we rarely stepped outside the comfort of our own white middle class ghettoes. Our interaction was limited to the clichéd. The old Greek man up the road gave me endless vegetables – foreplay for a determined grope as soon as we were alone. We smiled and nodded at the ancient Chinese man next door but never spoke, and we avoided the household at the bottom of the street, a speed lab where the police were called frequently.

Yet, while most of the people I got to know belonged to the same white middle class ghetto as myself, the working class woman two doors up was crashing down the barriers. She regularly spoke disparagingly of all the Asiatics in the area, but despite her decidedly un-correct language, she was the only one who really befriended the new Vietnamese neighbours.

Our children were also busy climbing over fences into gardens very different to our own.

A couple of weeks after that first day at school, I dropped my daughter off for a play at her new best friend’s house. The house was in complete darkness, draped in velvet and adorned with crucifixes. I have always liked to think of myself as accepting, inclusive and aware of the dangers of forming judgements on first impressions – but I was challenged. My daughter, on the other hand, was oblivious. To her, these were people like any other.

Her next friend introduced her to the world of serious junk food consumption and daytime television wrestling, and the one after that had come from the bush – the house was like a squat, they frequently slept around a ten gallon drum fire in the garden, and the parents drank heavily – yet they were also enormously loving and kind and the children loved playing together.

Our family wasn’t the only one being pushed out of our comfort zone. A friend around the corner told me of a birthday party she took her daughter to – the parents like characters in Underbelly. All the kids were treated to anything they wanted, paid for with huge wads of cash. Another friend had a son who regularly had sleep overs with the born-agains, where he was told there’d be hell for all if they didn’t pray before they went to bed.

As kids grow they become more aware of difference, of the subtle and not so subtle signifiers that mark people, the signs we use to read and judge even when we don’t want to. Yet when they are young, all that really interests them is the games they’re going to play, and the food they’re going to eat.

I was ashamed at how hard I sometimes found it to accept my daughter’s choice of friends. I read her worthy kids books about acceptance and inclusion but it took me some time before I began to be less challenged. I don’t know if we ever reach the true acceptance that we would like to think we have, but I do know that speaking the right language is one thing – really living it is another.

Are you open minded about new friends and experiences? Has your mind closed as you have grown older?

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125 Comments so far

  1. Portand, Oregon

    In the book “Free Range Kids” the author advises that we teach our kids not to be afraid of strangers, as they may well be the ones that HELP our children if they ever find themselves being threatened or harrassed in a public situation. Instead of creating generalised fear, and telling them never ever talk to strangers she says, teach your children to never to GO WITH a stranger. I think this is a more realistic approach to life.

    It’s so easy to “profile” people (I think especially as a woman, you kind of have to do this, eg. suss out the people around you and make some assumptions), but I don’t want my kids to be fearful of people just because they don’t look or act like them. I suppose because both my parents were social workers, I was exposed to a lot of marginal and “diverse” people growing up. At first it can be kind of embarrassing and awkward, but once you get past that, it really does enrich your life to be friends with those who have different points of view, different backgrounds, looks, abilities, etc.

    It’s a long learning process… once you get beyond your own (completely understandable) prejudices, you get more savvy about sorting the wheat from the chaff, when you judge people’s merit. It rarely has to do with the most obvious things.

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  2. girly

    I was friends with an Indian girl at school. Her mother didn’t like me. One day I was playing with my friend and her brothers, and her older sister saw us. She told her Mum and she flew off the handle.

    Told me she didn’t want her son associating with “white, Aussie” girls. Being 15, I was speechless. I told her I had no interest in her son, he was a friend. After that she was lovely, saying she just didn’t want her kids marrying or dating Caucasian, white people.

    And they say Australians are racist..

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  3. Simone

    I currently live in a area predominantly middle eastern , my neighbors across the road, have 3 kids just like me, yet I am not of the same culture as them , but I am Italian born in oz. So for the 12 yrs we have lived here , they don’t acknowledge us, yet when new neighbors moved in next to them of the same culture within the month they were friends. It was hard to take, as I grew up knowing everyone in the street and having street parties at Christmas,now we hardly know our neighbors.

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  4. 80s Baby

    When I was a kid a Chinese family lived down the road from us, in a block of flats. A little ways down from them was a Polish family. That was as diverse as our street got, but at the time in Tasmania, that wasn’t uncommon. I was great friends with the only daughter of the Chinese family, she was a year above me at school but we played every day after school. Her father was a polite, quiet man who also had a great sense of humour who often made my friend and I laugh. I ate many things there that were to me strange and delicious. The sounds of my friend’s parents talking quietly in Mandarin were very comforting, and to this day I feel safe and comforted when I here people converse in Mandarin. The year my friend wentto high school, they moved and we lost contact after a short while. I was saddened to hear a couple years later that my friend was teased for her Chinese name, so much so that she legally changed it to a plain western name. This was my first experience with racism though I didnt know that’s what it was then. Then, when I was 17 a few friends and I were in an ametuer film which involved the local vietnam war veteran Harley Davidson club. The blokes we hung around were rough as guts, but lovely and very protective of us. Now, my fiancé’s father is a bikie, once the president of the local bike club in southern Sydney. The mates that are around their place look like every conservative father’s nightmare – leather, tattoos. But they are all law- abiding, open mindednd kind people. I feel more comfortable with them than many other people. I think my early experiences shaped how I think now. The teasing my childhood friend experienced Has stuck with me and makes me More aware than ever.

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  5. Maggie

    I am pretty horrified about the very homogenous North Shore community in which we live. I grew up in very multiracial area and can’t believe the subtle ( and not so subtle) racism and classism that goes on around here. Also, some of the wealthiest and outwardly stable families we have met are the ones hosting parties with alcohol for young teens, mothers take their girls to beauty salons for tanning and belly button piercing and encourage dieting.
    I am struggling with many of these things which certainly don’t fit in with our values as a family. I crave the chaotic and diverse experiences of my childhood, where I was exposed to different religions, food, cultural practices and language. I thought I would improve my children’s lives by living in an upper socioeconomic area, now I’m not so sure!

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  6. Flutterby

    I love our kids school. There’s a smattering of cultures and races – no one predominant. There are rough nuts and very privileged kids.

    As my youngest says “we’re not the richest or the poorest kids” at school.

    There are high achievers and kids with learning problems.

    All that’s required to get along is good behaviour.

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  7. Anonymous

    We have decided to live in a multicultural area with like minded relative non materialistic people. My 3 year olds best friends come from four different cultural backgrounds. I have no problems with this. My problem is our families – sexist and racist. I battle with how to show my kids how to be open minded, while I live away from family partly because I don’t want my girls exposed to certain things including being told daily that they are ‘pretty princesses’. Yes, I know this sounds trivial, but I don’t doubt the negative impact on my girls self image.

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  8. Faybian

    Looks can be deceiving. My son stayed at a new friends one night as a teenager. His home looked ok and he did well at school, kept his nose cleaner than my son did. The next day when I picked him up, I thought there was something different about him. He eventually revealed that his friends grandfather had given him his first ever marijuana. The deputy principal at the school was shocked when I told her apparently they got raided for drug dealing.

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    • anonymous

      You dobbed them in? Gosh that’s just wrong.

      Imagine the effect on the poor kid of having his house raided by the cops!

      I’m a respectable 40-something mum of three, successful in my career, in a stable relationship with the father of my kids. We are both educated professionals.

      Guess what? We smoke pot, and we’re certainly not a danger to any of the friends our kids have around.

      Yes, looks can be deceiving.

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      • Faybian

        Er, no. If you read properly, in no way did I even mention I did. I just said that I had talked to the principal about it and also mentioned that eventually they got raided (both about the same time actually), so don’t jump to conclusions. Anyway, people are actually encouraged to dob in drug dealers and I was pretty pissed off that someone older than myself gave my teenage kid illegal drugs. Wouldn’t you be and I don’t care if people smoke dope, I just don’t want them giving to my kids.

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      • Molly

        You might be a pot head, but it’s a bit different to what Faybian was saying- her son was given pot to smoke by an adult in tha house! I would’ve reported it too. And I think it would be more damaging fr the kid who lived there to be smoking pot, then to have his house raided and the problem removed!

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        • Faybian

          Thanks, we struggled for months over whether to dob them in to the police actually. Like I said I don’t care if people smoke it themselves, but I was angry at someone my dads age (whom I spoke to when I dropped him off) giving it to my son. In the end we didn’t, we just didn’t let him go back there.

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      • I don’t see why it is wrong either, some people deem the taking of illegal drugs seriously! I wouldn’t do it but I can understand why someone would.

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  9. Ellen

    Yesterday my partner told me about a man he served at work. He looked rough as guts with tattoos, piercings and a mean scowl. My partner said as soon as he saw him he didn’t wanna deal with him because he thought he would be a difficult and rude customer. Turns out the guy was lovely and really upbeat and stayed to have a chat.

    I’ve always been of the position that we can’t help but form perceptions of people we see, whether based on other peoples and societies perceptions, or our own experience. Sometimes these can be useful, but we should never let them close us off.

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  10. Laws for Clouds

    I am on the receiving end of a lot of judgement being a young-ish mum (adult acne keeps me looking borderline pubescent, sigh).

    I don’t mind – it just lets me filter the parents I don’t want playing with *my* kids ;)

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    • Fran

      Hey Laws, Same here. Adult acne…horrible to live with. Have you tried antibiotics. My doc gave me a prescription late last year and within about 6 weeks I hardly had any acne at all and my skin looks and feels great. 50mg doxycycline (Vibra-tabs). As long as you’re not preggers or breastfeeding.

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      • Fran

        except I’m not youngish ;)

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      • Fi

        The pill is also quite effective.
        But sadly, only the expensive ones. Yasmin/Yaz come highly rated from me.

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      • Ajay

        A long course of low dose antibiotics worked for me too. I was on them for about 6 months I think and gradually weaned off them. My skin has been fantastic ever since :-)

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    • iPunkernickle

      Try Murad.

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    • ellajean

      I do not care that some of my girls friends have young mums..it just that I feel so old next to them…as for the acne it is better than wrinkles…

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    • Faybian

      I got asked if I was my baby’s sister, if my parents were home (both from strangers at the door and on the phone) and got charged child price at a market once when I was in the back of my parents car, next to my baby. I also got asked for ID at pubs/clubs until I was 32. By then it was kind of a compliment.

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  11. MelGardener

    I think children are great for confronting your way of thinking and making you see things from a different angle. My daughter has a young girl with cerebral palsy at her daycare centre. When I first met her, my thoughts were consumed with details – how was her mum coping? What was her prognosis? Could she communicate? Would she ever be mobile?

    Then my daughter comes over and says to me “Mum, doesn’t [child's name] have beautiful eyes”.

    It really pulled me up short and made me see past the disability, past the details – and realise that this little person was a person in her own right.

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    • Haven Maven

      That’s so beautiful Melanie. Don’t our children help us to see the forest for the trees.

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    • Tara

      I don’t have kids but I can’t wait to – they see the world in such an uninfected way :)

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  12. Joy R

    I think what this post is saying, is ( Never judge a book by it’s cover).
    And yes! i too don’t like Stupid!.

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  13. amandarose

    I was the kid parents were challenged to accept- something to do with the crazy brother thinking he was god and the fact we slept in beds with rabbits and had. Chicken that slept inside and even had chickens on top of my sisters wardrobe.

    But those friends who’s parents were less uptight( usually ministers daughters for some reason) they had the most fantastic time visiting our place.

    My mother as the most fun adult in the world and we always had amazing times. The managery of animals was a suburban petting zoo and we were kind, sharing and well mannered children. The neighbourhood flocked to our place on weekends and after school( to the point we had to pretend to be out sometimes). A lot of it behind their parents back.

    Even after we grew up my mum still had neighbours kids visiting the animals. ( Eventually we had a farm so the neighbourhood in town got quiet).

    My mum had no middle class judgements about anyone and befriended those in need( like battered wives and the parents of kids we fostered).

    I would like to be the same but my options are limited- my little town is very middle class with little diversity. Our best friends are Indian and that is about it.

    I hated being the kid who’s friends were not allowed to stay. I would never do it to another child- those experiences help one grow as a child.

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  14. tastebud

    Hmmm, great points!

    I think I am fairly typical in that I have become more conservative since I became a parent. I used to be all pro-state-schooling etc, yet, as I age I notice myself wanting to control the circles within which my children move. Occasionally I notice in myself an (unattractive) desire to orchestrate what they are exposed to and when.

    Like most, practicing tolerance and acceptance is something I want to foster.

    Ongoing discussions with my children about these differences will be paramount. But I’m not going to blindly accept what I don’t agree with…. I’m hoping there is some good fodder there for us to debate and flesh it out.

    I like to take persons and situations as I find them. And when something challenges me, I try to practice drawing the most benevolent conclusions possible. There are only a handful of parenting situations which are black and white. And I think that’s what we are talking about – differences between families; each family has a culture all it’s own. Take your in-laws for example?!

    Obviously, I draw the line at safety.

    But let’s face it – parenting is just that much easier when your extended family + circle of friends + community echo your own values / standards / behaviours…..yes?

    Easier, not necessarily better….

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    • Melissa

      The thing is that you also forget the influence your kids and your family could have on a kid from an abusive family, or a family that doesn’t value reading etc, when they mix. A kid who doesn’t know that homework is important may start to feel differently after she visits you or your neighbours and sees that your kids can’t watch TV/play DS… Until after they’ve done their homework and their reading.

      That’s why public schools need the involved parents and middle class families – if all the people who can, through money or scholarships, flee to the private system, there’s fewer examples of high achievers for the kids who have no option but to be at public school to emulate.

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  15. Michelle

    I just loved this piece. Your observations of others and your honesty about your own responses. Your recognition that the vocal racist was in fact the most welcoming to the new Vietnamese family and acknowledgement of the warmth and love found in families that would be easy to right off as dysfunctional and to stay away from. I love that you write about the contradictions and dynamics and true diversity that makes life interesting but also uncomfortable when our middle class bubbles are burst to a degree we may not be ready for.
    I am looking forward to reading your books now! I want more.
    Michelle (mamabook)

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  16. chef

    I just always kind of think that if the children are reasonably healthy and happy, and have lunch packed etc. and the parent or parents turn out for some school events such as assemblies or fundraisers, that there is a level of care shown and I would not hesitate to allow my child to go to theirs for a playdate. Regardless of class, race or religion. Also no one who sees your kid for, what? 2-3 hours, irregularly, can have much true input into their life views whether they be goths, christians, or just drink a bit too much. Am finding some of the comments below a bit ( dare I say it ?) judgemental. We just seem to be making a lot of generalisations.

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  17. Punkernickle

    I’m getting more and more judgemental as I get older.

    It is not someone’s race or culture or level of education or religion or eating preferences that I judge – it is their inherent stupidity.I just can’t deal with stupid anymore.

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    • Anonymous

      Yes, stupid is very irritating, I agree.

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    • XANTHE

      When I was little we lived in Cairns. My parents used to go to the pub on the corner on Saturday arvos. Children and aboriginals weren’t allowed in. So I used to sit on the steps with the aboriginals and drink sarsaparilla brought out to me by my mum. The Aboriginal women would take me across the road to the beach so I could play with their kids. They cared for me so well – my mother had no worries at all. It was a loooooong time before I even realised they were black! I just thought they all had really dirty hands

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      • Anonymous

        :) That’s such a lovely story.

        Kids really don’t care, do they? Prejudice is such an adult fear and concept…

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  18. Anonymous

    I have exhausted myself trying to cultivate new friendships for my son – the kids have either moved school, moved area, parents have separated and the war has begun ( no judgement I am a working single parent too) or the family shows no interest in growing friendships what so ever which of course is their choice. Now I just tell my son to be friendly and kind to every one and not get too attached to one person as life changes. I want my son to be tolerant to all but have boundaries of course in that I will do everything I can to protect him from abuse firstly followed by families where there is drug & alcohol dependency, an unwillingness to contribute to society in some way be it work or community, racial, sexist and verbally abusive persons etc. Yes I do have a list but at some point you have to allow kids to make their own choices and hope for the best. All people have their vices and I have had friends parents wary of me becasue I am a vegetarian, hippy wearing yoga teacher so every one has their prejudices hey lol. We love and protect our children so much of course we want the best for them but some times kids see through our prejudices and just want to play and be.

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  19. notintheseshoes

    I think it’s interesting that a couple of people commented that the “born-agains” were the one ‘group’ that they really had a problem with. Would I be right in saying that here the issue is with the idea of someone intruding on your child’s belief system? I’d say that’s a perfectly fair objection. It’s one thing to ask guests to participate in family rituals (from saying grace to watching the Simpsons) and quite another to proselytise at them, or ask them to adhere to beliefs they (or in this case, their parents) find morally questionable.

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    • Meerkath

      Yes my issue would be someone trying to impose their beliefs and practices on my child without my permission. I would respect their beliefs of there child was in my care and would expect the same level of respect

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    • amandarose

      My best school friend was a rather small American cults minister in Tasmania. while I had my own beliefs I really enjoyed there company. They didn’t have tv and everyone was musical and smart and we cooked and did craft and I just loved it. Our other family friends were another obscure christian religion( Tasmania must be the capital of obscure christians faiths) that didn’t have tv either and only wore dresses and didn’t cut hair. Loved it there too as we got to milk cows and learn other cooking and craft. Both enriched my childhood without influencing me.

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    • loves2bake

      I think it is interesting that Christians are the ones that are signaled out as being guilty of this – you don’t have to be Christian to impose your beliefs on others (and beliefs don’t just have to be about God).

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    • Melissa

      I hung out with born agains as a kid, and still do as an adult (my in-laws!). I’ve not been brainwashed or adopted their belief system holus bolus, in fact it’s made me more open minded and taught me a thing or two about not judging people.

      ETA: and my BFF in primary school was a Jehovah’s Witness. All that meant to me was that she and her siblings didn’t get Christmas and birthday presents. Mostly I just hung out at their place playing Carmen Sandiego and eating delicious Italian food their grandmother cooked.

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  20. karinderkley

    My daughter went to a primary school in a wealthy inner Melbourne suburb where almost 75% of the students went on to private schools. She then went to the local high school three minutes away from her old school, where the students were a combination of “alternatives”, local housing commission kids, and the kids of die-hard government education supporters. No uniforms of course, and the school encouraged self-expression – thus piercings, ripped fishnet stockings, and wild hair. My daughter was very straight in many ways, and in her first year my heart dropped each time I dropped her off and picked her up and saw the rough and scary kids in the school yard. Each week I’d ask her – is it okay, are those kids alright? “They’re fine mum,: she assured me. “They just look scary but they’re really nice people.” Even so, sometimes I’d wonder whether I should have overdrawn on the mortgage after all to send her to a private school. But she was happy there and I never wanted my kids to grow up in a world made up purely of “people like us”. She’s now in Year 12 and has had a great bunch of friends. And I have to say that the experience of being part of a really diverse school has made her a really broad-minded person able to mix with people across a whole range of backgrounds. I learned to appreciate the kids too, and recognise that appearance is no predictor of whether a kid is “good” or not.

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    • chef

      Sensible good mum = sensible good daughter.

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    • Caz.

      And it sounds like you got something out of your daughter’s public education too, as her choice of friends allowed you to break down some of your fears about what the kids looked like and its meaning or lack of meaning about who they are at heart.

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    • Kate!

      Ill be delighted if my daughter decides to die her hair green and wear torn fishnets one day. We will have so much more fun playing dress-ups than we do while she’s conservatively modelling herself on vanilla tv queens who care way too much about being pretty and popular.

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      • Kate!

        I meant ‘dye’ of course. Curses to the (non) editing function.

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  21. Anon

    Here here Anna!

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  22. anna

    re the greek man giving vegies. Giving vegies is usually not foreplay for greeks. greek neighbours tend to do give vegies often (I know being greek and having greek neighbours!). usually the 2 aren’t connected. perhaps you just came across a sleazy old man.

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    • Anonymous

      I miss a community where neighbours pass on their extra produce or give you their very best…Europeans are glorious for it. I love them.

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      • Nora

        My gorgeous neighbour from across the load delivered us a bag of oranges and lemons last night from her trees! It was so lovely of her. She’s new on the street so we hardly know her, such a kind gesture.

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      • elli

        I work for a doctor in a suburb of Sydney with a mixture of Italians, Greeks, elderly Australians, and young families. We regularly have patients drop in food – the (40ish Aussie) man across the street drops off bags of lemons when his tree is in fruit; the Greek ladies drop in ‘shortbread’ when it’s the season for it (New Year??); the elderly Italian couple who learned that the boss rarely pauses for lunch drop in home-made soup or focaccia; a Scottish-born lady makes shortbread every Xmas; a Thai lady drops in a batch of still-warm cakes and slices after she’s been baking. Such a lovely community.

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    • Anonymous

      i thought the greek comment was quite rude

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      • not too serious

        I didn’t.

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  23. Anon

    Here’s a thought too – if you don’t like where you live: MOVE.

    No matter where you are, regardless of what suburb you live in, what school, how you dress and what you think – you are always going to have hazards around you. The best you can do is try to be a good parent and teach your kids common sense.

    Enough with the stereotypes too. You’re right, it is a cliche. I would have enjoyed this post if you had kept it to your own experience without the labels in regards to Greeks, Vietnamese and Chinese. It would be interesting to know what your readers below would would have pictured in their heads if you hadn’t attached those pre conceptions.

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    • not too serious

      Who is this “thought” intended to help?

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  24. Craig

    The ones I would be most worried about are the born again’s. Most likely to try and indoctrinate.

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    • LadySarah

      I am a born again. I have never tried to ‘indocrinate’ but tried to represent my faith in a positive fashion, been encouraging, looked after those who needed it. I have taken a 17 year old girl grocery shopping, because watching her care for her mother on her own was heart breaking for me. This wasn’t indoctrinating, It was trying to be a positive ligh to others. Sometimes this is misrepresented.

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      • Craig

        It is good you help others, I wish more Christians would follow your example. But the first time you mention God, Church or praying during the shopping trip, game over.

        I never forget the time I was half way through a hair cut at a Christian salon (unknown to me at the time). Half way through the cut, I could hardly leave with half a head, they started putting the hard word on me about coming to church blah blah. And then the praying started…Oh the praying.

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        • LadySarah

          The only time I have ever mentioned God to this girl is when I am asked. I make every effort to be as transparent with my dealings with people. In my opinion it’s te best way to operate.

          I don’t agree with what happened to you at the salon. One should only pray for others when asked. It’s polite ;)

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        • LadySarah

          My apologies for the spelling/grammar as well. My poor little smartphone is reaching the end of it’s life span! Making it difficult to touch the keyboard.

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      • Anon

        Born-agains like you are out there (and are lovely), but you have to admit there are some that are so pushy and judgmental when it comes to religion. But, saying that, it’s definitely not limited to christians.

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        • LadySarah

          I don’t disagree there are some, and they are generally meaning well. But I dislike the stereotype that all Christians wish to push ideals onto others. My apologies guys, but it’s a continual and very frustrating issue for me.

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          • KC

            I was raised by parents without any religious beliefs, not sure you’d call them atheist or what but religion was never discussed or presented as an option for me.

            I really wish my parents had let me be exposed to some form of religion or spirituality. I would’ve loved for someone to just tell me about my options, then I could’ve pursued one should I have been inclined.

            Instead, by the time I was a teenager, I was too embarrassed to ask anyone because it all seemed too mysterious and I felt stupid.

            My husband was raised Catholic and nostalgically whinges about the boring Sunday mass week after week throughout his childhood – I’m actually jealous I didn’t get to experience that at least once.

            I can understand parents not wanting anyone preaching to their kids but don’t swing too far the other way and deprive them of knowledge just because you fear they’ll be influenced.

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  25. Guest75

    Coming from a mixed background myself (I am half asian and half european), growing up in a third world county, having friends from all different religion nomination/ beliefs, and married to a Chilean man, I have no problems mixing with different culture, religion or socio economics. In fact I encourage my 2 daughters to mixed with children from different backgrounds and religions. What I will not tolerate however, is allowing my children to be in unsafe situation, i.e letting my kids to have play date/sleepover at kids house whose parents that I don’t know well enough, or known to have violent behaviour/drinking problem, or overly fanatical approach in ANY religion ,or trying to convert my kids to their religion. I don’t think that is judgemental, I think that is responsible parenting, keeping your children safe from harm.

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  26. Jaz

    I think this is less about race and more about trust! Do you trust somebody, essentially a stranger, with your most sacred and honoured thing…your child?? I am all for each to their own, do as you will with harm to none and all that. but I do check out my childrens friends parents and future carers, I think that is the responsible thing. IF I feel uncomfortable with the parents, I encourage play dates to happen at our home until such time (if it comes) that I feel sufficiently comfortable that my child will be suitably cared for.

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    • Faybian

      You do realize that it can be insulting if you’re on the other end of that scenario. The implied message there is ” we’re trustworthy enough to care for your child, but you’re not responsible/trustworthy enough to care for ours”. I have seen kids that are complete strangers dropped off at the gate and picked up by a toot of the horn and don’t think that’s on. Neither, though is what you propose.

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  27. Anonymous

    This is really interesting. I must admit I was a little surprised at the reaction of some of my teenage daughters friends when invited to our house for the first time. They had never seen a house so…….tidy. Looked pretty normal to me, apparently not.

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    • traceyb65

      my children have been known to complain about our ‘small’ (3br/1bathrm) home … when a new friend of my son’s walked in the house one day, he was wide-eyed with amazement about how ‘huge’ our house was … perspective!

      and ‘different’? all the better! i run an open house for lonewolves and fringedwellers, just as i was as a child (who’s kidding whom, and still am), and i love them all. xt

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  28. loves2bake

    labels are a dangerous thing because they severely limit our ability to see the worth in people. Sometimes these labels aren’t stereotypes either. We can label people ‘liars’ because of previous untruths, ‘unfriendly’ when we may have just caught them on a particularly stressful day, or ‘attention seeking’ when they really just trying to compensate for low self esteem. As a teacher I have seen firsthand how children (teens) are labelled because of past behaviour, their parents or older siblings, and seen how frustrated they can become if they try to make changes or break the mould, and then just settle into that label when they aren’t given the chance. I think that most, if not all, of us are guilty of forming judgements about people (I know I am) but the difference is if we try to ignore them.

    A few people have commented about how they would ‘struggle’ with born again Christians – which I am. I’m not offended but I do find it interesting – I’m quite a nice person to know (I think – hope?) and I wonder what it is about me being Christian that would put people off?

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    • Nico

      Yeah, a lot of people who say they’re welcoming/don’t have prejudices suddenly get mighty intolerant of Christians/Born again Chistians.

      (Not saying anyone here in particular, obviously)

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      • Anonymous

        Christians don’t count – you can say what you like about them and the same righteous outrage of others doesn’t apply, for some reason.

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      • tastebud

        I agree.

        I’d be curious to see the if Christian comments were matched with as many “Oh I could cope with anything but a Muslim!” comments….

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        • Craig

          Don’t worry, as Dawkin’s will tell you, all religions are crazy fairy tales.

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          • loves2bake

            Well, at least Dawkins discriminated against all groups… that’s about the only thing in his favour, I think :)

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            • Craig

              He also has science and common sense in his favour.

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            • loves2bake

              Personally, I think that in his case both are dubious (and I have nothing against science OR commonsense normally).

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            • Neola

              To no-one in particular, here’s the best quote I’ve heard all week (so topical too, as we’re all supposed to be talking about genitals with our kids this week, using the correct terminology:

              Religion is like a penis

              It’s fine to have one.

              It’s fine to be proud of it.

              But please don’t whip it out and wave it around in the street…amd PLEASE don’t try to shove it down my kids’ throats!

              :-)

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            • loves2bake

              I understand the point that te statement is trying to make, but I find it kind of offensive.

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    • MaryV

      From my experience born agains want everyone to be as interested in there ‘new’ life as they are and it can be boring and down right annoying. God tends to pop up in every conversation, whether relevant or not. If born agains are happy fine, just don’t try to convert me.

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      • loves2bake

        I think there is a difference between talking about something that is very relevant to you and trying to convert the masses. Everyone has particular interests and it is natural that that will take up a fair bit of their conversation. I have friends who are stay-at-home mums and they talk about their kids, teacher friends who talk about issues at school or unruly students, and a MIL who talks about what has been on TV that week. They’re not trying to force their point of view on me, they’re just talking about what interests them. Sometimes I find those conversations boring, particularly when it seems repetitive, but I show interest because I try not to just focus on what I find interesting or want to talk about, and because I am interested in THEM.

        As a Christian God is a big part of my life and I do talk about him, although I tend to restrict those conversations to other Christians, not because I think I should, but because their seems to be this stigma that associates talking about God with trying to convert people. Some Christians do try to force God on others, but I think that more often people assume that that is what someone is trying to do when they mention God.

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        • LauraS

          I understand what you are saying completely, but even a mention of God makes me uncomfortable, because I don’t believe in any God. I never know what to say – I can’t agree with what the person is saying, but coming out with ‘Oh, I don’t believe in God’ is a good way to create an awkward silence!

          I’m comfortable with people talking about their belief in God, but I tend to avoid people who discuss God as if his existence is a given.

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          • loves2bake

            I’m the same when someone mentions that God doesn’t exist! I think it depends on the conversation and the person – the last thing you want is to offend someone but I think it is good when you can talk about differences in beliefs or ideas – it’s much more interesting!

            If people believe in God, then to them his existence is a given, just as an Atheist sees the lack of a god as a given. It’s unrealistic to expect people to approach a conversation from your own point of view, especially if you don’t want to do the same for them. Is the difference just using the preface “well, I believe…”? because that doesn’t change how they view things, it’s just semantics.

            I hope that doesn’t sound narky, I’m just trying to share how I see things.

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            • LauraS

              Agree! Don’t expect people to approach the conversation form my POV, but that doesn’t change the fact it makes me squirm…

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            • loves2bake

              If people don’t appreciate your point of view (whether they agree or not) then that’s their loss. I’m glad you didn’t avoid me :)

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            • Anonymous

              Notice how the discussion has gone right off track….

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            • not too serious

              So?
              Is there something wrong, anonymous?

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      • Nico

        I know a lot of ‘born agains’ and i think people need to differentiate between ‘first fervour’ and a need to proselytize. Whilst both can get tiresome (fast) only the latter is really ‘dangerous’ as such.

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    • Meerkath

      I am Christian but the reason I am wary of “born agains” is because, and this is from my experience only with b/a family members etc, theyvtend to preach and be very forward with their beliefs and I don’t like that. My faith is very personal and I would never dream of imposing it upon anyone.

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    • LauraS

      It comes down to the drive to ‘make disciples.’

      In my experience, born again Christians are more inclined to judge me or try to convert me to their way of thinking. I’ve never had a Muslim tell me I ‘should’ be married, but plenty of Christians have.

      If many people of a different faith tried to convince me to change the way I live my life to suit their beliefs, I would be wary of them too.

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    • JosieY

      Love2bake, I think I’m a littl ebit in love with you. You say all the things I would but better!

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      • loves2bake

        Awwwww, JosieY, you just made my day!!!

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  29. Anonymous

    Is it really considered judgemental to be wary to think that having your daughter stay at a friends whose parents have serious drinking problems? Um hello it’s actually un safe????? Yes we live in a diverse culture which is great but I think being aware and cautious of the speed lab on the corner or the known gangsters is called being a parent that’s not asleep at the wheel. God I find this post sooooo irritating! It has the right intentions but it’s mixed in with discussing Mixing in with differing cultures and languages as being the same as muxing jn with criminals or drunks.

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    • Bradley

      Ah…but do those parents really have a serious drinking problem or is it the case that they take one or two drinks more each week than the author of the article ? I have come across those who believe that enjoying the occasional celebratory glass of sherry is the sign of a person who has a drinking problem.

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      • Ren

        Bradly: totally agree. I grew up Italian where wine was served with every dinner. My Dad tells stories that he was drinking since he was young – but never in his late teenage years (nor ours) was binge drinking a problem – because responsible drinking was the norm. Most families didn’t drink as much ad ours, but then our parents never got “wasted”. I like to equate it to patents who simply prepare healthy meals without all the fuss of it being healthy, and those who suddenly eat healthy or stress over healthy meals – who’s kids are more likely to have a problem with food?

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    • Elizabeth

      I really couldnt agree more with your comment. Two of my jobs as a parent is to protect and guide my kids. I would NEVER let my kids visit some of the families mention above. When my kids become adults they will spend time with whomever they please… they will have enough sense and abilities to protect themselves then. just thinking about my daughter being around heavily drinking adults unsupervised makes me shudder.

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  30. Bradley

    I love experiencing new experiences ! In fact, I heartily endorse the practice. That is why I refuse to go all PC. PC blocks the mind. It tells you how you MUST act, how you MUST behave, how you MUST think. Common sense tells me what is right and wrong and sets me in the right direction.

    I treat people and situations as I find them. If I want to listen to preaching…there’s many an instituation ready to welcome new blood to the flock.

    I like to listen and read as many points of view as possible. I don’t appreciate being shut down when my opinion doesn’t receive that consensus associated with a standing ovation, nor will I attempt to shut someone down for the same reason. You learn more about life by being prepared to acknowledge that there is much in the world that should be acknowledged.

    Stop…look…listen…learn.

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    • Lovena

      Well said. Also, I have a mild case of verbal diarrhoea which makes me allergic to the madness of political correctness! More often than not, people find openness refreshing. I’m more at ease with those who speak to me with childhood abandon despite their age, background or political leanings. One learns so much that way and it makes life infinitely more fun!

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  31. OssieLeo

    I am an Israeli Aussie and I remember a birthday party I had organised for my daughter, unfortunately September 11 happened the week before. I had many cancellations and also some parents refused to leave their children at the party so they stayed as they felt that it was unsafe for their kids..

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    • That is plain ridiculous. This has made me really angry! I hope you didn’t let this upset you too much.

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    • SometimesKaren

      That’s appalling. I’m so sorry that happened to you and your daughter :(

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    • Faybian

      A lot of parents stay at kids parties (when they’re younger anyway) these days regardless. Using September 11 as an excuse was pathetic. Did people really believe your house would be suicide bombed or something?

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      • OssieLeo

        They said that they’ll stay in case there is trouble… However, they were very welcome to stay and eventually started looking comfy. The only thing that bothered me is that for the first time in her life (and hopefully the last) my daughter was made to feel different and not in a good way.

        thank you for all your kind comments..

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  32. bowerbird

    So here’s a question – is there a difference between being judgemental and seeking out people whose company you enjoy and who you feel comfortable with? In another example of MM’s uncanny timeliness, just the other night my husband and I very suddenly started contemplating moving, because we sometimes feel that we don’t really fit in. Before kids, that didn’t bother us at all, we just got on with our own stuff. However, now that our eldest is in school, I suppose I worry that our – what? slightly ‘outsider’ status? – might impact on our children’s friendships. Interestingly, though, its not really about differences in socio-economic, education or ethnic origins. Its more about a feeling of lack of depth, genuine-ness and sincerity. I just can’t stand the silly “in crowd” games that emerge (didn’t we leave them behind in high school???) even in an alternative hippy community. I have no interest in participating, but I do wonder if my contempt for such will lead to the kids being isolated.

    Thanks Georgia, that’s a lovely article that made me think about this from yet another angle!

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  33. TessGirl

    I think I was born into the Addams family. Wednesday looked exactly like me when I was five.
    Blonde girl: “WHY are you dressed like someone died?”
    Wednesday: “Wait.”

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    • Bradley

      I sang The Addams Family theme at my SIL’s wedding. It just seemed so darn…..appropriate at the time !

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  34. ipomenscarlet

    Georgia, I love, love, love this post!

    With your honesty and humour you showed the precarious balance between reasonable judgement and prejudiced assumptions.

    As an ethnic myself (from an ethnic ghetto), I found nothing offensive whatsoever in your characterisations.

    But my favourite part of your piece – which epitomised your subtle understanding and good nature – was the bit about the supposedly racist Anglo woman who was the only “native” to befriend the immigrants.

    I have known a number of such women and so have members of my family. The older immigrant family members often go on and on about what “fine people the Anglos are.”

    This assessment is based on their wonderful experiences of this country in general, but specifically on the sort of woman you described.

    In not rushing to judgement, we can see the goodness of those whose actions speak so much louder than their words.

    As for the fundie Christians – I too used to balk and thought them unsophisticated and a bit dangerous… until I actually met some :)

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  35. dragonflysakura

    Oh god, what timing. My 11 year old daughter is having her first sleepover tonight – HERE – with her new best friend (she’s been here for half an hour and my blood pressure is already skyrocketing…). She’s hyperactive, loud and judgemental and brings out those qualities in my daughter too. Her friend is a lovely kid but she has been raised differently from the way I have raised Laura and bridging that gap diplomatically is taking …considerable energy. It’s been an eye-opener for me as I look back and see what I put my mother through at that age. So I’m taking deep breaths and attempting to calm down, thinking of the loud music, junk food and high-pitched giggling that came with having a sleepover when I was her age. Karma.

    Wait a minute….I can’t hear anything now…..that’s WORSE!

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  36. Caz.

    I guess I understand the point of this post, but I found so many of the choices of language to be extremely ‘othering’ and generalised. I think maybe that was the point? But there’s no moral, just more judgment. Sorry, but it’s left me confused.

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    • Guest

      Completely agree Caz. There is only judgement being made, I thought we were getting past this…obviously not.

      It’s obvious that you wouldn’t want your children to befriend someone who isn’t a very good influence. However, you don’t have to judge so harshly when a genuine friendship is being formed between innocent children. Parents need to get involved here, but not to judge and teach their children how to be negative.

      All kids go through stages as do adults. Article has also left me confused.

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  37. Naz

    Growing up my parents were quiet strict so we were never allowed to sleep over anyone’s house unless they were my cousins and we didn’t go on many play dates either. But there was one boy at school who used to follow me & my older sister around at recess and lunch times and eventually we ended up going to his house on a play date due to his mum begging ours because he wouldn’t stop talking about us to her. Anyway I still remember going to his house his parents had nude pics of themselves everywhere and they were the biggest hippies! My mum was quick to say he can come over to our place but didn’t allow us to go there again.

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  38. Guest

    Interesting article but you lost me when you made a comment about your stereoptypical thoughts on the Greeks and Vietnamese…disappointing. And completely unneccesary.

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  39. Meerkath

    I think i Am open minded but the born agains would probably challenge that lol. However, hubby and I do have a rule that our daughters (11 and 4) are not left for play dates at friends houses unless we have at least met the parents and feel comfortable. Haven’t had any issues so far, although there was one pre school play date, where I stayed, where the teenage mum, in all seriousness, asked me if I thought it was OK for her to sleep with the estranged father of her daughter, “just so she had a brother or sister with the same dad”. Gulp. Yep, I got judgmental and thankfully, the lost touch after pre school LOL.
    A’s for sleepovers, we are pretty strict. The older daughter has only ever stayed over at close friends houses, luckily over the years the parents have become close friends but after all, they are our kids, we are there to protect them and judgmental or not, isn’t safety the primary concern? I nixed one sleepover because I only knew the mum a little and the dad I had met only once, and to be honest, he gave me an icky feeling. Turns out I wasn’t thinly parent that thought that but I went with my gut instinct.

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    • Anonymous

      So with you on this, it’s our job to keep them safe and do all the checks etc, has nothing to do with nationality for heavens sake

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    • Anonymous

      aww give the teen mums a break, they’re just kids, still learning and can’t possibly be expected to have the understanding of relationships you gain in your twenties and thirties.

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      • Meerkath

        It wasn’t having a go at teen mums, obviously I wouldn’t have gone on a play date with one if I had a problem. Most amaze me with their abilit to cope with stuff I struggle with. What I had an issue wit was her screwing the same guy twice just to have a sibling with the same genes for her child, and, not only not having an ongoing relationship with the guy, but not telling him he was going to be baby making. Confusing but I hope that makes sense. The Nanna in me was appalled by her morals:)))

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    • Claire (@freetoclaire)

      I agree with you here, mostly – Im the same when it comes to play dates and sleepovers – I have to know the parents and feel comfortable with my kids being looked after by them.
      There have been a few parents of my kids’ friends I wouldnt have been comfortable looking after my children, but that was because of their attitude etc.
      I do find it interesting though, that you needed to qualify that story about the girl asking you if she should sleep with her estranged partner by saying she was a teenage mum – wouldnt it have made you think twice just as much if she were in her 30s? I just found it interesting that you said “teenage mum” instead of just saying the kid’s mum. It kind of comes off like you went into that particular situation with judgement to begin with.

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      • Anonymous

        O….M….G!…. BIG eye roll!!!

        There is NOTHING wrong with saying it was a teenage mum!

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        • Claire (@freetoclaire)

          Fair enough, I may be too sensitive because I was 19 when I had my first child, and I received my fair share of judgement that came under the term “teenage mum”. I didnt use that term for myself, because I never understood the need to distinguish how old I was in reference to my parenting. It just bugs me that you wouldn’t say “her 30 year old mum”, but qualifying it with “teenage mum” is fine.
          Again, I may have taken it the wrong way because of my own experiences, but it just seems like needing to distinguish her age implies there was a judgement there already.

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  40. Anonymous

    honest, insightful, inspiring read.

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  41. WillaWay

    It’s amazing how the schoolyard brings out social divisions like just about no other place. Or, at least, the public schoolyard, where all-comers gather.

    At my daughter’s school, one girl has had a best friend for 5 years. They are inseparable. Yet, her parents have never spoken to the friend’s parents and the friend has never been invited to their house to play. Because her mother is a tattooist, is the only reason I can identify, and they are middle-of-the-road white collar.

    This is repeated through school. Parents encourage friendships only with children of parents they like, and these are usually those parents of similar socio-economic status and background.

    It’s pretty rare to see a boundary crossed, and it’s all not spoken of. Sometimes it’s absolutely blatant – who is never invited to a party. And the kids wear it.

    When it comes to the schoolyard, the sins of the parents really are visited on the childen.

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    • Melissa

      Well said! Part of the reason I’ll be choosing public schools when the time comes is precisely because I believe in breaking those boundaries down.

      Don’t know how I’ll feel when it’s my kid, but I happily hang out with goths and born agains now and would definitely expand my circle if given the opportunity.

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  42. Kylie L

    Great post Georgia! I was well and truly pushed out of my own comfort zone last year when my family spent a year in Broome (having moved from a very homogenous inner Melbourne suburb)… before the move my husband and I spoke of how fabulous it would be for our children to experience indigenous Australia (the student body at the school they would attend in Broome is 60% indigenous) and a very different culture to that that they’d grown up with. And it was… right until the time an aboriginal classmate asked her over for a play. She went straight home with the girl after school, so I didn’t drop her off, but when I picked her up I was more than a little horrified to find my girl running around with her dress off (it was bloody hot) with about 20 other aboriginal kids and a pck of mangy dogs at a local park, while a group of (aboriginal) adults sat in the shade drinking. I need to add that the mother of my daughter’s friend wasn’t drinking- in fact she seemed to be the designated sober caregiver for all the children- and that my daughter was having the time of her life… but it certainly gave me pause. That night my then 8 yo daughter had five million questions about why so many people lived at X’s house, and why they didn’t have a car and where her father was and why they slept on the floor… her horizons were certainly broadened, anyway. Mine were too.

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  43. LauraS

    I was reading through this thinking “I’m not judgmental, none of those families would bother me’ until I got to the born-agains! So I guess I do have a judgmental streak.

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