by MIA FREEDMAN
“Did you have a plan for your placenta?” the woman asked me earnestly. She was pregnant. I was confused.
We’d only just met at a BBQ and as she repeated her question, I cocked my head quizically like a Labradoodle trying to understand a complex sentence. I’d never heard the words ‘plan’ and ‘placenta’ together and I was having trouble reconciling them.
“Huh? You mean did I, like, cook it or bury it in the garden?” She shook her head. “No, I mean when you gave birth did you have a plan for how your placenta would be delivered?”
Blink. “Um, out of my vagina? Does that count as a plan?”
More head shaking. The woman was growing impatient because she had a plan and she wanted to tell me about it. Her three page birth plan had “Delivering The Placenta” as its own subhead with half a dozen bullet points underneath.
I know this because she showed it to me on her phone while I tried not to stab myself with a sausage.
My personal view of birth plans is that they’re most useful when you set them on fire and use them to toast marshmallows. But there are some women who live for them: I call them Birthzillas because just like a Bridezilla focusses on the wedding not the marriage, The Birthzilla appears more interested in having a birth experience than a baby.
This term won’t win me any friends among those who believe passionately in a particular type of birth. Homebirth, freebirth, waterbirth, hypnotic birth, active birth, calm birth, silent birth……there’s a first-world menu of options for anyone who wishes to select from it, both inside and outside the hospital system.
Birthzillas usually speak about ‘empowerment’ and ‘control’ and use a lot of personal pronouns. Their own experience is invariably at the centre of their narrative even though they will always claim (and probably believe) that they’re acting selflessly for the good of their baby. This baffles me. It’s a bit like going to Paris and obsessing about the in-flight entertainment instead of, you know, PARIS.
Some women define themselves by the type of birth they had, even though their children are now in primary school. I antagonised this subculture a few years ago when I spoke out about freebirth (the practice of giving birth at home without any medical support not even a midwife) and called it reckless.
Many “birth advocates” came after me with pitchforks and autosignatures like:
“Anne-Marie, mother of Wyllow (happily freebirthed in 2002) and Jaydyn (proudly waterbirthed at home in 2004).”
It’s birth as identity and it’s odd.
The Birthzilla is such a first world creation. For millions of women, their birth plan is simply: “please let my baby and I survive”. However, among privileged women with access to safe and affordable care, I’ve noticed a growing fixation on the birth process.
For many, it’s about control. One of the most confronting things about pregnancy and birth is the unpredictability of it and women often believe they can regain control by planning. Babies, however, like to raise their middle finger at your plans. They come early, they come late, they get stuck, they get suddenly distressed or tired or tangled. I know you’ve made three playlists for the different stages of your labour but your baby doesn’t care.
In her memoir, Bossypants, the brilliant Tina Fey describes the birth of her first child like this: “Vaginal delivery, epidural, didn’t poop on the table”. Those three pertinent facts sum it up, pre-emptively answering the most common questions other women ask.
Men? They couldn’t care less. Never in your life will you hear a man urge a woman, “Please! Tell me more about the way you gave birth!”. Not even if she’s his wife.
While most women need little encouragement to launch into a detailed account of her birth from conception to the first time she has sex afterwards, men generally try to leave the room when the subject comes up. It’s just not that interesting to them. I don’t mean the part where they saw their baby for the first time. That’s mind-blowing. But the bits before that? Utterly insignificant compared to the lifetime of parenting that comes afterwards.
I recently heard a woman on the radio waxing lyrical about how her two homebirths “were the most incredible experiences of my life and I don’t know anyone who had a hospital birth and could say the same thing”. Me. I could. Three hospital births. Loved them all. And this is where I start to get tetchy.
Let me state for the record: I’m a fan of doctors. Love them. Especially obstetricians. If I could give birth in a stadium full of people in white coats with letters after their names I would do a happy jig. What? You’re a doctor of French literature? Mathematics? Oh well, come on down! The more qualifications nearby, the better.
But in the maddening world of competitive mothering, some women see their birth experience as a platform for smugness and superiority. A badge of maternal honour. The game of My Birth Was Better Than Yours is an ugly, destructive one. And hugely risky if it puts anything above the physical welfare of a baby.
So yes, I could bang on and on about my birth experiences. But I’d prefer to tell you about my kids.
UPDATE 6pm Sunday 17 June: Having read most of the comments and watch the debate unfold over the day, I just wanted to clarify four things.
1. Being a feminist does not – to me – mean agreeing with every decision made and every opinion held by everyone who happens to have a vagina. I will always be authentic and honest about my own opinions and this column is an example of that. Some seem to believe it’s my ‘duty’ to support all women regardless of their choices or behaviour. I’m afraid that’s not going to happen. I am one person with one opinion. I don’t claim to speak on behalf of anyone else. There are hundreds of contributors to Mamamia and thousands of comments that reflect a hugely diverse range of opinions which is as it should be.
2. I am not suggesting making a birth plan is reckless or even stupid. I’m not suggesting it’s a good idea to walk into your birth knowing nothing. Many commenters below have spoken about ‘birth preferences’ which I think is sensible. But becoming too fixated on the way you give birth is, in my opinion, a misplaced priority and ultimately often futile. And I’ve seen sooooo many women shocked, bewildered, disappointed and even ashamed that their birth did not go according to their plan. Being aware that it could all go to hell is an important part of preparing for the very unpredictable experience of giving birth.
3. There is a broad spectrum of Birthzilla behaviour. Some of it – making detailed plans for your placenta or compiling endless playlists for your ipod – is harmless enough. Trivial even. You want a water birth in a birth centre? Why not. More insidious are the Birthzillas who derive status and superiority from the way they give birth. They can be almost passive aggressive about it. And who says giving birth at home or without drugs is somehow ‘better’ or ‘more meaningful’ than giving birth via c-section or with an epidural or with forceps?
4. At the extreme end of the Birthzilla spectrum are those women who put their birth experience above the health and wellbeing of their baby. And yes it happens. In fact the South Australian coronor recently found that three babies who died during homebirths would have certainly survived had they been born in hospitals. You can read more about that here. In each case, their mothers knew the pregnancies were high risk and chose to give birth at home without medical support anyway. Their babies died. And for what? That is where Birthzilla behaviour can actually be a matter of life and death.






Comments
1,449 Comments so far
This article is crazy. Mia are you really suggesting that you can only choose between your baby or birth surly we can have both. I researched my birth options so that i could have a healthy baby to look after. Why do we have to put other women down with a label like birthzillas, surly being educated on something as important as childbirth should be celebrated. If your happy with your birth experience, then let other women be happy with theirs.
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I agree with your comment as long as it doesn’t involve pushing view points or ideas on others especially first time expectant mums who suck in any advice given and can feel completely overwhelmed and a bit of a failure if they aren’t fulfilling the latest thoughts on the ‘best’ way to have a baby.
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It is not often that I struggle with an article on MM, but I am really struggling with this one. I’ve had three babies and for each of them the most important outcome was a healthy baby and healthy me. Having said that, I most definitely had input as to how I wished my birth experience to go. My first was a scheduled cesarean due to pregnancy complications. My birth plan for that birth included things such as my husband and I being the ones to announce the sex of the baby and for no family other my husband to hold the baby until I was able to. For my second, I had a vaginal delivery, not knowing how it would pan out being my first labour, I again had a birth plan. It was your more typical birth plan, and I found the nursing staff very respectful and followed it. They may well have been laughing about me at the nurses station but quite frankly, i dont care. Despite aiming for a drug free delivery I ended up with an epidural but it was my choice and not once was I offered pain relief, as per my birth plan. There were other things thatbhappened along the waybthat made it obvius that staff had read and were respectful of the birth plan. My third baby was Born via elective caesarian and I spoke again spoke to my OB (a different one, due to moving interstate) about how I hoped things wold go. Perhaps my birth plan was partly to do with control, but not really. It was to do with research, discussion with my care providers and flexibility.
For all my births I was well aware that things may have gone differently at any moment and the plan may be thrown out the window, but I see nothing birthzilla about hoping and planning for an outcome. We do this in life all the time. ALL mothers want a healthy baby, those of us in my expeience, who choose to put in writing how we hope things may go are not doing so for the sake of smugness or superiority.
The part of the article that I agree with is that birth is not a competition. We a allowed to have differing views on the best way to birth, that doesn’t make us better than one another. The key is respect. In my group of friends I have those who home birth and those who book the epidural in the second they walk into the hospital.
Let’s support each other, empower each other to have choice in how we birth.
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If the actual birth is so insignificant why are so many people (myself included) always drawn to stories such as these? Anything with the word “birth” in it always gets far more comments than nearly any other story on mamamia. Obviously something women feel passionate about — little wonder then that so many women draw up birth plans.
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Hi everyone. Please remember our dinner party rules when you are posting. We love healthy debate and discussion here at MM but let’s keep it polite and respectful. You can make your point without getting angry or offensive. Thanks.
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Good luck with that. We’ve got someone here calling women ‘stupid bloody selfish smug twats’ & people like her comment.
Maybe the MM team should stop allowing comments from anon posters or people who aren’t signed up with an email. I bet you wouldn’t get so many nasty comments if people thought they would be banned.
Just a thought.
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So would Mia call someone a birthzilla at a dinner party? Nice one.
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Careful, I wrote the same thing a few minutes ago and my comment has mysteriously disappeared.
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How many times are we going to talk about this before we all just accept that everyone has a different opinion and no one gives a shit about anyones but their own?
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Today’s piece that Mia wrote really saddened and disappointed me as clearly Mia you don’t understand or relate to the beauty of a positive birth experience or are somewhat afraid or threatened by it. As a mum of two who has had two great natural births i cannot get over how many women WANT to hear my positive birth without drugs or intervention because they feel so traumatised by their negative experience in the hospital system at the hands largely by obstetricians….what you failed to show in this article is that its not about a birth plans its about BIRTH TOOLS. Women in western culture from a very young age are ingrained to feel afraid and terrified of birth, and doctors just fuel this by their risk adverse attitude to birth. In no way am i saying that obstetricans are not necessary god yeah they are but in the majority of cases they intervene far too early, do not prepare the mother mentally or physically for birth and are c-section crazy…..because it takes one hour as opposed to the average first birth of 10-12hours…..I have taught hundreds of women over the years in prenatal yoga and they all want to birth on their terms but live in a system which does not prepare them for this and your story today just mocks that very fundamental choice that yes a good birth is possible and yes you should have some idea of what you want with good preparation..trust me i have birthed with an OB who rushed me so i tore in a private hospital then second birth with midwife in birth centre completely different vibe, birth centre worked with my body as it is designed to birth their was no rush, no force or intervention….surely you could have balanced your story today with at least a quote from people rather than labelling anyone who had a great birth and felt the need to empower other women a Birthzilla? Another judgemental article with not point and you are starting to sound like a very atypical Eastern Suburbs Sydney mother stereotype with you attack on breastfeeding and endorsement of sleep training babies…
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Mandy, it is my fervent opinion that your remark “you don’t understand or relate to the beauty of a positive birth experience or are somewhat afraid or threatened by it” is the reason so many women are so put off by the natural childbirth movement.
It is a sanctimonious and esoteric comment that leaves many of us cold.
If you’s read Mia’s second book, she describes the birth of her daughter, and it is an empowering and beautiful read. I would say that she is absolutely able to relate to the beauty of birth, and is no way threatened by it. Mia has embraced birth, as far as I can tell.
To opine that those who are not swayed or affected by natural birthers and their experiences cannot relate to “the beauty of birth” is quite a generalisation. But then, there are a fair few generalisations in your comment.
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Great article Mia. Again, you talk perfect sense and am pleased there is someone out there that is willing to speak out against these people. I had no birth plan but to get my daughter out safely. Had an elective c-section and don’t regret it one bit.
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gosh, if i’d given birth at home not only would my son’s not have survived but I probably wouldn’t have either… The plan idea is ok, but you have to realise you don’t have control of this situation, someone else does & accept change.
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Who is this ‘someone else”? Who has control of the situation?
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I there is difference between being educated in what to expect when going to have your baby so you can have input and having extremely detailed dot points of what MUST happen. Working in a maternity hospital I have seen that these plans are not that successful when something minor upsets ‘the’ plan. There can be a seance of failure for both mum and dad when this happens even when they have a perfectly healthy baby they should just be enjoying.
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Really, it never hurts to be prepared, but be willing to be flexible for the health and safety of the mother and child.
Sure I am lucky to be a Mum, and I am certainly glad my child was born healthy, but the birth experience I had is something I think about often, and I know I always will. Like a serious car accident (been there) any event in life that causes you emotional or physical distress stays with you. And its human nature to want to ensure that maybe next time, the impact is not so great.
To me, this post illustrates how you feel about people judging you for your choices…
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Great article Mia.
As someone who is currently pregnant with a high risk pregnancy my birthplan is as follows: Please help me god deliver a healthy baby, let it stay in my womb for as long as possible (fr me) & let me and my baby have the shortest hospital stay possible.My plan also includes doing eveything my two specialists tell me to do and my delivery will be determined by when I begin to get sick.
As much as I respect mothers wanting to do their own thing, I think some have lost perspective. The most important point to remember is the healthy delivery of your baby and of course the health of the mother.
I would love to ask a pregnant woman in a poverty stricken country whether they’ve considered their bithplan or if it just includes the delivery of their child.
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This would have made a good opinion piece instead of the one we got… Mature grown up writing that clearly expresses an opinion, but without the condescension and name calling!
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Best wishes and hope all goes well
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This is the most vitriolic, anti-feminist article I’ve read since the last time Mia, Bec or Rick wrote about birth or breastfeeding.
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At 8 weeks I had a birth plan. At my 16 wk ob appt, Dr laughed at me when I asked about birthplans. A bit hurt, I saw he had a point. Then he noticed me hobbling out and called me back. Turned out I was not alright. Pregnancy spent on crutches, wheelchair, bed then hospitalised. Against most advice I asked if I could try a vaginal birth, Dr was encouraging. after 12 hours turned out that my crappy stretched pelivs was still too small and I had an emergency caesar. Most amazing experience – we (Drs, Nurses, my husband and me) told jokes the whole way through and sang long with the radio – all the staff commented that it was the most joyful caesar ever.
My point is this. As a total control freak who has lots of rules I had to completely let go in order to survive and live through 5 months of absolute pain. I didn’t plan anything except to have a loved beautiful baby in my arms, everything else was secondary and I truly believe that the universe gave me that experience to teach me how to be a better mother and consequently a better listener of my body. I’m with you Mia, plans be damned – it will happen exactly how it wants to happen and there is nothing you can do about it no matter what you try and tell yourself. Go on the journey and see where it take you – most likely not the path you expected or planned for but an awesome one nevertheless.
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I disagree with the premise that if you care about your birth and have a plan then you are somehow seeing your birth as a means of one upping other mothers.
Some people really care how their baby arrives into the world and some don’t. I’m pretty sure if I’d paid more attention to that rather than just blindly do what I was told by doctors with my first birth it would have been a much better experience for me and my baby.
Education and understanding are really important – education about what happens during birth, what interventions are available – what they do, how they affect birth and mother and baby – all of this is great in my opinion and I hope that mothers continue to be informed about the process.
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We were told by the hospital to have a birth plan – the midwife who took the birthing class encouraged my husband and I to write one out. So I’m not sure in the decade or so since, what has actually happened. Did we take a bit of say in how we birthed our babies and just ran with it? I think Mia is being a bit inflammatory calling women ‘birthzillas’…
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AMEN!!!!!!! Mia…you speak SPADES of good common sense. This EXACTLY how I feel about people who treat giving birth like it’s bungy jumping. You know…the experience you HAVE to have and the baby is just a pleasant afterthought or an added bonus.
Having a baby is risky. I know it’s natural but it’s still risky. ALOT can go wrong. People…I’m pro choice…but if you choose to go ahead with a pregnancy you have an OBLIGATION to make sure you give birth in a safe environment and that you listen to good MEDICAL advice…you know people who have had YEARS of studying and EXPERIENCE and seeing this all before. I think it’s the height of arrogance to believe you know better than people who know what they are doing and have been doing for years…and not basing their knowledge on baseless anectotal evidence for bits of research you have done on the internet. For about five minutes.
Birth is not pleasant and can be unpredictable…and you may get a few cranky nurses or doctors with an imperious attitude…but I would rather that then risk the life of ANOTHER HUMAN BEING…Sorry…this isn’t ALL about YOU anymore.
Rant over.
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Elizabeth, they are doctors, not Gods or mind readers.
Your comment is so ill-informed that I struggle to believe that you are a not just a paid troll to incite debate.
Medical intervention is not always for emergency purposes, nor is it always necessary for the health of the baby or mother. It can take place because of staffing issues, time constraints, or merely because the Obstetrician has had a bad day or wants to get back to his golf game.
A birth plan can have sensible expectations expressed, for example:
‘I do not wish to be offered pain relief, I would prefer to ask for it.’
‘I want immediate skin to skin contact with my baby if medically possible.’
‘I would like myself or my birthing partner to be kept informed at all times.’
‘I do not agree to intervention unless my baby or myself are in danger or distress.’
‘In the unlikely event of an emergency caesarian requiring general anaesthetic and recovery time, I do not consent for my baby to be offered formula.’
Being prepared and informed is not extreme. This is your body and your baby’s start in life. You are her/his advocate. If you do not wish for your child to be unnecessarily born doped out on pethidine or with a haematoma on it’s head from a ventouse delivery that could have been safely avoided if more patience was shown, or if you wish to avoid drugs or intervention that can lead to more intervention and end up in what would have been an unnecessary C-section, then good on you for knowing yours and your baby’s rights and options and for expressing them.
Note I said SAFELY and UNNECESSARILY. I am not judging anyone if what they choose is safe and informed. For some women intervention is entirely necessary and/or desired. Good on them too.
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Hi Kate – genuine question:
What’s the difference between being offered pain relief and asking for it?
Baffled by that one.
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Haven’t given birth, but have had many surgeries that required heavy duty pain meds afterwards. I specifically asked my doctors not to give me or offer me certain drugs, because whilst in agony knew I would be vunerable and most likely take them, but I really didn’t want to take those drugs (for many reasons I won’t get into here), so I made that decision whilst I was rational and not clouded by pain.
To me it’s kind of like offering someone a big slice of cake when they’ve just told you they’re trying to be healthy. It feels disrespectful to me. Everyone knows pain relief is available during labour. There’s nothing stopping a woman from asking for it, but offering it up at her weakest moment, when she’s been clear she doesn’t want it just seems wrong to me.
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Can’t speak for Kate but in my own case I got a bit tired of being offered gas or an epidural every few minutes when I didn’t want either.
I know the midwives were only doing their job, they didn’t know I didn’t want gas/an epidural. It would have made things easier for them and for me if they’d known from the beginning.
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That it’s not being pushed upon you, but if you yourself feel you need it, then you can ask?
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That was a huge one for me Mia. I wanted to have the option of asking for analgesia if I wanted it but didn’t want it offered. I knew that in that position I would take it if offered… even if I wasn’t really at the point of needing it… yet. I think I’ve made that as clear as mud…
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Just because someone doesn’t agree with you DOES NOT MAKE THEM A TROLL OR ILL INFORMED!!!!
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Kate, what an absolute joke, you are talking utter crap!! I want the name and phone number of this mystery obstetrician you say forced inteYrvention onto someone in order to get back to a game of golf!!??
Or, I don’t know , you could admit that you are just making things up to perpetuate a hysterical myth?
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I agree with you Mia in that there will always be people who go to the extremes of anything, and birth plans are no different. But I find it interesting that the majority of comments on here either for or against your opinion have, quite ironically, mentioned some aspect of their birthing experiences. And why shouldn’t we? As a woman I marvel in what my body is capable of. The pregnancy and everything after is ALL about my kids. But the birth? That was all me. (not dismissing my awesome support team) I’m pretty proud of what my body did, not to mention that I coped mentally and emotionally with the most demanding thing I’ve ever done, and I’m happy to tell anyone who asks. Why the heck would I keep quite about such a massive achievement? Let’s celebrate the wonder that we can birth a child, regardless of how we birth.
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Absolutely!
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It’s not an achievement. It’s a bodily function.
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My husband (a GP who has delivered hundreds of babies) laughed his head off when I told him I was going to write a birth plan. Said if I did I was guaranteed to have a 24 hour labour then emergency caesarian! Well I proved him wrong by having a 12 hour labour (most of it at home), no drugs needed, natural, vaginal delivery. Walked out of labour suite to my room carrying my baby. Just as I’d planned.
And the reason I had such a superb labour was because I prepared myself! Remember when our mothers were pregnant they learnt their deep breathing techniques? Noone does that anymore! I did a hypnobirthing course with a local midwife which was amazing. Learn your relaxation & deep breathing techniques girls & practice them! It will be the best money you’ve ever spent!
Remember though, that things can sometimes go wrong & if that’s the case, you chuck the birth plan away & use your deep breathing to get you through whatever unexpected is happening.
Anything can happen when a woman goes into labour, but it is important to be prepared & educate yourself & have some idea of preferences in case important decisions need to be made.
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With no disrespect, why is a GP delivering hundreds of babies? Do you live in a regional area?
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No. I said he has delivered not is delivering. He completed his Dip Obs a while ago & spent a long time working in the area. Now works as a GP.
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All my children (including twins) were delivered by GP’s. Never been to an obstetrician or gynaecologist in my life. Such is the the life of we country bumpkins.
No birth plan other than to pray the car didn’t break down or we didn’t hit a roo on the way to hospital in the dark! (How come babies are so often born in the middle of the night?!)
Don’t remember being that focussed on my pregnancies..or the impending births. Just went about life as normal, one day labour started, got to hospital, up on the bed and eventually bub arrived..
and that’s when the fun began…the whole birthing thing is such a small moment in what is a lifetime event.
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The reason you had such a superb labour is because you were lucky. Nothing more, nothing less. There are trillions of women who “prepared” themselves and it all went to hell in a hand-basket (or at least was less than “superb”).
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Trillions of women? Slightly melodramatic there Elle but I take your point even if I disagree with it! I don’t think I was lucky. I had a normal delivery & was prepared for whatever lay ahead. I think others (the minority) can be ‘unlucky’ if it doesn’t all go as hoped… but isn’t that Mia’s point? That even if it all turns to hell, if we end up with mother & baby both alive & healthy it doesn’t really matter anyway?
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Thank you Mia! As a doctor and mother I applaud you once more for calling the obsession with the birth process what it is – a first-world problem that seems to overlook the whole objective of reproduction.
And to all you ladies out there facing a birth sometime in your future – the more you relinquish control over this most unpredictable of processes the more likely you will walk away from it without disappointment or even more significant psychological harm.
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Miss Medic, are you saying that you are against any type of birth plan and that the mother should just do exactly what the hospital staff tell her to? Really?
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Ummm yes…because they are trained in what to do in the event of an emergency if anything goes wrong…did you go to medical school? are you a doctor? a nurse?. You might of only done this once, twice or whatever…they have done this hundreds of times. What is so wrong with taking and believing good medical advice? What makes you think you know better than them?
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Actually, Elizabeth I am a nurse, thanks for asking. Have been for over 25 years. Not a midwife or a doctor, but I take exception to the suggestion that anyone just goes into hospital and accepts whatever is on the table. You’re the patient, the mother. It’s nice to have some sort of options. That’s what a birth plan is. “This is what I’d like. If the shit hits the fan, do whatever you need to, but if it doesn’t, I’d like this please. Thanks.”
How’s that?
What’s the problem with that?
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Ha ha!!
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My point is simply that in my experience those that enter a birth with a specific set of plans are often disappointed – because births (whether they happen in a hospital, at home or under a tree) are unpredictable. This does not mean that I suggest you ‘go in blind’ or “do exactly what hospital staff tell you to do” (although I think you’ll find that hospital staff on the whole are less about just bossing patients around are in fact all about providing information and guidance regarding what is most likely to lead to the best outcome – and let’s not forget about the outcome here!). Bottom line – If you want to write a plan – do it – but acknowledge that birth is rarely predictable, the outcome is the no.1 priority and as such be prepared to throw it firmly out the window if circumstances change.
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I trust my doctor, but more than that I take responsibility for my own health and wellbeing. Which means not going in blind. If I’m taking medication or having surgery, I’ll research it rather than just rely on one person to tell me what I need to know.
Doctors aren’t infallible. My mother is of the opinion that they walk on water, and twice now she’s had serious medical dramas after being prescribed drugs she shouldn’t have been. An honest mistake by her doctors, but one that could have easily been avoided if she’d done even a little bit of research about what she was taking.
Many times I’ve been prescribed one medication, then asked about another that does the same thing but with less side effects, and been given that instead. It pays to have some knowledge of your own body and what you are putting into it/having done to it. I like doctors, I respect doctors, but I’m not going to take a pill or have surgery without asking questions and being satisfied with the answers. It’s my health, I feel it would be irresponsible of me not to do my own research.
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Maybe she meant relinquish control to Mother Nature (rather than to hospital staff). Isn’t a birth plan more of a wish list (and, like a Santa list which is too long, can only lead to disappointment)?
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Maybe. And you’re right, it is a bit of a wish list, but as long as they’re discussed with the staff & the mother (and father) understand what’s possible & what’s not I don’t see the problem.
There are over 300 posts here in response to what was probably meant to be a jokey article but essentially it’s poking fun at the stereotypical uptight mother to be. I think it’s good to have some ideas about how you want things to go but the main thing is that there are reasonable expectations and that the mother understands that if intervention is needed then that’s the way it goes.
Honestly, all this bitching and pure hatred in some cases in these posts is incredibly unnecessary. It’s the 21st century version of throwing people to the lions or chucking rotten fruit at people in stocks. There are quite a few people on here who are incredibly aggressive in the way they write at – not to, at – other posters. So rude. Elizabeth, would you have spoken to me the way you wrote at me if I’d been across a table to you?
It’s ugly. Is this the site you want, Mamamia team?
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Love the name Birthzilla. The perfect name for irritating mothers who think you are interested in their birth details. No one is interested. Quite frankly majority of strangers would quietly yawn hearing your plan. Get over yourselves…
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I’m no Birthzilla, but I did have a birth plan. It was basically, “If this situation arises, I’d rather have x than y”. An example was “If I have to have an emergency caesarean, I’d rather have a general anasthetic than an epidural”.
With my second baby, it was “I’d like a hospital gown as soon as I get in there” as I was starkers for my first and I’d rather have had a gown. And also “Please move the bed down to the lowest setting”, as with my first I felt like I was going to roll off the narrow bed onto the floor. I didn’t articulate these things during the first labour because I was a) stoned to the eyeballs on Pethedine, and when that wore off b) pushing a baby with a head like a watermelon out of my vagina. So I was otherwise occupied.
I don’t see the point in telling other women YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG when it comes to choices like this. It’s not a competition. You’re just doing the best you can with the information available to you. I think it’s GOOD to have these discussions, though. Clearly, the woman Mia spoke to was all consumed by the upcoming birth of her baby. When I had a baby growing in me, it was pretty much all I thought about. Instead of dismissing her, perhaps Mia could have engaged her in some intelligent conversation about her birth plan.
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I’m really not a fan of the term birthzilla, it sounds like yet another way of putting women down (it sure is catchy though, thanks Mia).
Having a baby is really common but it is still one of the biggest things you will ever physically go through, so having a plan is sensible and so is keeping an open mind. I am not surprised that people define themselves by their birth and I bet they love their kids to bits too. As long as they don’t judge others I really don’t care. No one’s pain or life experience is the same so judging is not only negative but nonsensical.
Free birth, home birth, c-section, vbac, vaginally, labor ward, birthing centre … whatever, best of luck to you all. And you are more than welcome to tell me all about it, I love hearing birthing stories.
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Mia, I hope you have some thick skin, because some women really seem to have their claws out for you on this one. That said, personally I love this post so much I want to marry it, and have it’s babies by elective c section.
I think, and really hope, that, as it is on Facebook and in natural childbirth forums, the influx of women insulting you for writing this are the very vocal minority. It doesn’t seem like it, but statistics seem to say it is. Let’s hope this trend of putting the birth experience ahead of the health and wellbeing of the baby fizzles out very quickly.
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Of course. Instead of wanting to discuss how to bring her child into the world with you, she should have talked about her new blue Sass&Bide jacket.
I’m not saying this with the intention of hurting you Mia, but this website is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Sometimes, the articles seem a bit arrogant and make wild statements without much research or a factual basis.
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Is it really necessary to leave snarky comments like this?
If it’s arrogant to hold an opinion and express it, then your comment looks like hypocrisy to me. Pot. Kettle.
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Snarky articles deserve snarky responses.
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Stop coming back to the website to read the articles if you dislike them so. Unless you enjoy complaining
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GET BABY OUT AND DO NOT DIE.
That was the extent of my birth plan.
Success! Yay!
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would you all rather read a site full of articles by people that constantly sit on the fence on issues? an opinion piece is just that, an opinion. we all have them, if you dont like it, dont read it. but if you can read an article, evaluate it in regards to your life, think about it in relation to decisions you have made, and stand by the choices you made even if they dont agree with the artice then congratulations you too now have an opinion, and shouldnt be afraid to engage people in discussions just because they dont share your view.
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Couldn’t agree more. In fact, I’ve often found that it’s been when I’ve read articles and comments from people that I’ve realised how strongly (or not) I have felt about a particular viewpoint.
Take the article on board, consider what sits right (or not) and continue life accordingly. It’s not hard.
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it would seem some people have lost sight of the value of educating yourself by reading a wide range of opinions (yes even ones you dont agree with), and then forming your own opinion from there. Education is not just reading information about your own preconceived notions of what is right. There is a lot of crap out there on the net that wll convince you one way or another, right or wrong on any subject you choose to look up. i for one do not see this site as providing the be all and end all information on any one topic, some articles i agree with, some i do not. If you really feel that passionately about any subject, and have done the research to back it up, why dont you email mia and offer to write about your opinion?
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I get the feeling this site is running out of angles and material.Anyone else agree?
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just as some people will research and write themselves a detailed minute by minute itinerary when travelling, some will write a detailed plan for birthing. the chances are if you are planning to see disneyland on the third day of your holiday, it will more than likely be there. if you are planning to have a bath between hours 6 and 12 of labour, circumstances may prevent this from happening. so sure, do your research, write a rough plan, but also plan for the worst as well as your best. the problem i have is people telling you , quite rudely, that you gave birth the wrong way. of course everyone knows the ‘optimal’ way to birth a child, but reality is often very different. if you had a traumatic birth before, then a plan might make you feel better about the experience. if you are going into this for the first time, talk to the professionals about things that might be important to include in the plan. i have to say though, what i took from this article was not insulting the people that make a sensible plan for their birth but those who take it all too far and are very vocal in their disappointment about the way you gave birth. im sure everyone knows that one person who takes things to the extreme, most mothers will sympathise along with your story, but there is usually one person that is horrified that you made the decisions you did and is not afraid to tell you how irresponsible you are. yes i have 2 children, am currently pregnant with 3rd, and the only thing that mattered to me was that they got here safely.
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There are millions of women in third world countries who would think they were SO lucky to have even half the facilities, education and choices we have in Australia.
Rather than writing articles judging women on their choices, and inciting such a predictable outrage from readers (and generating lots of website traffic – stats must be down this month!) perhaps Mia’s time would have been better spent directing people to charities where they can donate, or assist the less fortunate mothers in this world.
I know the line ‘#first world problems’ can occasionally be used in a light hearted context, but this, surely, is a concrete example. As educated women, in a country where we have access to amazing medical staff and facilities, is whining and name-calling over each others birth choices really necessary?
Women who dare to choose an alternative to a hospital birth are certainly not the ones coming across as ‘smug and superior’ here.
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Agreed Suze
Here’s one that did feature on Mamamia recently, and as you can see sadly didn’t generate nearly as much response. Maybe Mia’s article today will get at least a few readers to rethink?
http://www.mamamia.com.au/mamamia-cares/send-hope-not-flowers-this-mothers-day/
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Midwives all joke about women with intricate, detailed birth plans. I had a few ideas of what I wanted, it all went out the window when the time came, who cares – my baby was healthy and THAT is what matters! I couldn’t give a crap if she came out of my bum. The main thing is my daughter came out ALIVE and HEALTHY!
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What annoys me about this topic is that it assumes that women have a choice regarding pain relief etc Where I live you have drug free births not through choice but because the aneasthetist is never available – you room in with the baby because the midwives are too busy to have them in the nursery and you elect to go home as soon as possible because you know you know you’ll get more rest and support there than in the crazy public hospital where over crowding means that sometimes women are labouring in the ward! When I thought I was going to have a vaginal delivery I did look into hiring a doula – not for some zen like experience, but because I knew I’d be lucky to get an epidural, the midwives would be too busy to offer much help and I knew I wouldn’t cope with the pain without an experienced woman to support me. As it was I had an elective C-section – my birth plan – could I please have some skin to skin contact and have the baby in recovery with me – nope baby whipped away after 5 minutes due to staff shortages. Where is this magical world where it would be worth making a birth plan?
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A lot of women’s birth plans nowadays is for an elective non-medically needed Caesarian Section. How fucked up is that! They are the Birthzillas, not the ones who prefer a totally natural non-medical intervention birth unless necessary!
My niece just had her second baby by emergency Caesarian (first vaginally) & also does not understand how anyone could prefer this birth option to a natural birth!
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An elective C section is not a f-ed up choice, people have their own reasons for the birth they choose, let’s not judge. Also, fwiw, my friends tell me an emergency C is quite different to an elective C.
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My niece had an Epidurial for the C-section & was awake so it was the same experience as an elective C-section. It was the pain after the birth & recovery, not being able to drive a car or do physical stuff that is the problem!
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Sienna, you are obviously a well spoken, knowledgable woman with many intelligent points to articulate, right? Bahahahahaha sorry, couldn’t keep that going. Let me just say on behalf of any other mothers whos’ beloved babies were born via non-medically indicated elective c section, that WE, my dear, are not the ones who are ‘fucked up’. I had my reasons, none of which are up for discussion with some random stranger on the internet who puts forward such an offensive description of a decision which they so obviously cannot comprehend. Of course, in all fairness though, if you have a credible study with findings of increased mortality and/or morbidity for both mother and baby directly resulting from an elective c section with no trial of labour, by all means, link a sister up and rub it in my face. In the meantime, here’s some advice I think will really come in handy for you…if the baby is not coming from your womb, it’s none of your goddamn business. Get it?
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Yep, Birthzilla….& extremely rude with an enormous chip on her shoulder!
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Pot. Kettle.
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I’m sorry Sienna, the ‘enormous chip on my shoulder’ must be blocking part of my computer screen, but if you could once again please point me to the evidence of harm caused by elective c sections leading you to the conclusion that they are ‘fucked up’ I’d be ever so grateful. Thanks a million, sweetheart xx
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I elected to have a c-section for my 2nd birth becau se when I tried to give birth naturally the first time around, my son was close to having brain damage or even dying and in the end, I had an emergeny c-section. My recovery was horrendous as I had my waters broken for meand i was pumped with drugs prior, I was unable to breast feed for quite a few days because I was on such heavy pain killers etc. it was a really terrible experience.
The elected c-section was soooooooo much better than my first experience and I recovered so quickly and my new healthy son was am extremely calm baby compared to my first son who i think was extremely stressed out by his delivery into this world.
if my decision was f*cked up, then so be it, but I would not change a thing!
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Sigh.
Mia, why are you encouraging women to pit against women?
It’s not selfish to desire an empowering birth experience. It’s ok to ask another mother if she had chosen how her placenta would be birthed (managed or physiological)
This opinion piece says so much more about you than it does the women who make informed decisions.
I do however agree with one part, birth experience should not define us as women, but it’s great if all women can begin motherhood in the best frame of mind as possible. Surely you can agree with that.
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Tina Fey is my celebrity leave pass.
My birth plan was simple. Get the baby out any way you can. Please.
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I am clearly the opposite of a birthzilla although I did have a few opinions about what I didn’t want to happen when I had my first child, pretty much all of which went out the window because of complications. Second time around I just wanted what was the safest option that would give me a healthy baby. I will never be able to brag about intervention free births, I’ve never gone into labour on my own (induction first time, Caesarean section second time). I never pushed my baby out (forceps first time , caesarean second time). Never had a drug free birth as I had an epidural and can’t imagine ever giving birth without one unless it was a very short labour! I never even saw either placenta as I was busy meeting my babies while the placenta was dealt with. But having my first baby get sick with Group B strep infection and need a lumbar puncture at 1 day old, and my second baby breech and covered in meconium when she was born I know I am just so lucky that they are both happy and healthy. I’ve read 2 really sad stories recently on FB, one about a stillborn baby and the other about a baby born with a brain tumour. Do you think these parents give a damn about what happened to their placenta, they would give anything just to have their babies back!
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I completely agree Mia. Couldn’t have hoped to put it better myself. The sad part of the whole messy debate for me is the seeming inability of some mothers to perceive the dangers in putting their own fears or dislikes of the medical system ahead of the well being of their babies. By all means, if you must plan to have a baby at home then do so, but why not provide a second plan for the possibility things may go wrong, surely the life of your child is worth that, at the very least?
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Re birth plans:
As Ike said, “Plans are worthless, but planning is everything.” No, things probably won’t turn out the way you want, but at least you’ve thought about it.
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It’s the same reason woman obsess about the wedding and not the Marriage. Control.
Weddings/marriage and birth/babies can be the biggest things in a woman’s life. And some people need to be able to feel like they have some control over what is happening. Let them
be. And Mia, for all your ‘sister love’ you sure do like to stir the pot. Maybe you should have a cuppa and figure out what you’re opinion on the ‘sisterhood’ really is. Articles like this rarely help.
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Stirring the pot??? well thank god for that otherwise this blog/site would be pretty bloody boring. And you and I wouldn’t be having this exchange.
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And wouldn’t that be sad.
I’m all for a good pot stir BUT not from a person who preaches one thing and then does another.
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I ‘happily’ gave birth in a hospital and ‘proudly’ took as many drugs as I could get my hands on. I live in a small town in the Northern Territory where life is hard for many people. Much of the NT is in 3rd world condition so it is not an option for many women to have home births et al. Where I live, life is so fragile with people getting sick too easily, dying too young. There is such a disconnect between people waxing on (about their right and entitlement to have a home/free birth) and the real world or at least the world I live in. I hope that many birthzillas (and people who have commented on this article) can see the ‘preciousness’ of their arguements.
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*claps* Well done MIa for continually inciting the ‘us v them’ mentality. Your posts that I’m sure a lot of people find funny are thinly veiled words of hate and/or disgust. You don’t even research properly, and are proud of being an idiot.
What is the point of a healthy baby if mama is too traumatized to look after her? That’s me…clinically depressed with PTSD. My marriage almost broke up, I don’t remember much my bubs first year and I became severely underweight. Of course there was the compounded guilt that you and other pushed on me…just be happy, you have a healthy happy baby. Do you not think that I didn’t want to be happy? That I wanted to enjoy motherhood and my baby? I couldn’t because my birth was horrific. I don’t look down on people experience…I would never tell a rape victim to ‘just be happy she’s alive’ nor would I tell a mama to ‘just be happy you have a healthy baby’.
It’s so sad that you don’t see how hurtful your words can be.
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Jo, hugs to you. I’m so sorry your experience was so traumatic. I think we hugely underestimate the psychological component of birth and yet it is SO powerful and has enormous long-term implications. As a midwife I see countless women carry unresolved emotional distress from previous births into their next one. I have worked hard with many women during pregnancy to deal with lots of birthing issues and the vast majority of them had “healthy babies”. To have demanded or expected that they just be grateful for that and should disregard the trauma they endured would be neglectful, dangerous and ignorant. I am astonished and disheartened that so many people seem to think the woman’s experience of birth is inconsequential. Of course the overall aim is to have a healthy baby, of course it’s not about taking undue risk, but it sure as hell SHOULD be about having a healthy baby whilst fostering a positive birth experience that helps to result in a healthy happy mother who has the emotional resources to rise to the challenges of new parenthood in a positive and enjoyable way. The two things are not mutually exclusive!
Jo I sincerely hope that should you choose to embark on another pregnancy, that it can be a much more positive experience for you with a care provider who fully understands and appreciates the toll that trauma can take. May it be the healing experience you deserve it to be. In the meantime, ignore articles like this one that are hurtful and undermine your experience (and that of thousands of other women).
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You and I are very much on the same page. It’s important of course to get through the birth safely, both of you. A friend of my mothers half jokingly referred to birth as “passing through the valley of the shadow” and a more apt description I couldn’t think of.
However, in maternity, you see lots of things happen, that are really not optimal and part of the pathway for us in maternity involves talking to the mother about how she feels about her birth. We discuss it in child health as well and I’ve seen lots of tears in both settings. There are times when birth could be handled better in hospital (and homebirth).
I do wish, though that this topic could be laid to rest for a while. It’s starting to give me the sh*ts and I love my job.
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Thank you Dee! Your words are healing in themselves!
As it is I did go onto have 2 more births. My 4th daughter was an planned unassisted homebirth (something Mia looks down upon) and was a very healing birth even though it wasn’t without problems (delayed fetal growth/face presentation)…but my GP supported my choice because I educated myself (yes sometimes through google, through talking to OBs/midwives who supported UHB , and through other providers…I double checked facts and never took anything on face value). Had I chosen to go back to hospital I would have had a ceasar at 32 weeks which would have resulted in a weak and sickly child or had a c-section once in labour because my hospital thinks face presentations are impossible. As it was, my beautiful healthy daughter arrived into her daddys arm and we are blessed. Her birth helped lay to rest a lot of trauma that had bottled up over the previous births. No PND or PTSD and we’re still breastfeeding 17months on…and I attribute that to be educated and my birth choice!
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I am sorry you did not have a good experience and I would in no way trivialise what you went through, or tell you to just get over it.
One thing I do wonder sometimes though, is whether the prevalence of birth plans and the idea that we should be in control of the experience is contributing to the trauma that people feel if things don’t go the way they expected. Perhaps if we all expected the unexpected, then perhaps it would be easier to accept when things don’t go the way we wanted.
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I didn’t have birth plans with any of my births. All I did was expect pain and to deal with it…what I didn’t expect was the staff to be so uncaring and push their own motives onto me. It’s not how your baby is born but how you are treated during this very emotional time.
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Can you please not compare rape to giving birth…. Or the outcome…. Just wrong and insensitive!
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I love you Mia x 1000
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This was so true. I, too, had two beautiful hospital births with wonderful OBs and wouldn’t trade them for the world because my children arrived safely. Thanks for bringing a little sanity to the Mommy world.
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yes, but as usual it has to be at the expense of someone else. I had hospital births too, and caesarians. But WHO CARES if other mums want to write birth plans!!!
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Mia for all your talk about not judging you do a heck of a lot, you know? Women are all different. Shocking right? We all process things differently, what’s important to one isn’t important to another. You might like to talk about shoes or hand bags, I like to talk about birth, although admittedly I do avoid chats about placentas over food.
Some women will take an emergency c-section in their stride. No big deal. Others it can be huge and take time to process. Same with any intervention. Some doctors will explain what is happening and why in a really clear, concise manner, others just bark orders and leave the labouring women terrified.
As for talking about the birth, my husband loves to talk about our births, each very special in their own way. That rush of hormones, the “I did it!” high. And hell yes I felt like Wonder Woman after my last birth. Pretty sure vaginally birthing breech twins, intervention and drug free is worthy of a bit of a brag. And it’s not that I feel like I’m better than anyone else, because I don’t, it’s because I’m so damn proud that I did it.
So if you want to talk to me about your birth, I’ll listen, I love hearing women’s stories and how we deal with situations differently. But if you just want to brag all about your gorgeous baby/child/new shoes I’ll listen to that too. We’re all different, and we all have different interests/passions. Doesn’t make someone wrong or right, just different.
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Continue to be proud Megsy. Brag without guilt. You ARE a Wonder Woman
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You have got to be kidding. You want to brag about birthing breech twins vaginally and encourage other women to do something incredibly dangerous by emphasising how empowered you feel? You got lucky. No, not worth a brag. Worth a disclaimer: Don’t EVER try this unless you are aware of the risks.
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In the name of not being able to let this article go (I am 36 weeks pregnant and having a tough time leading up to birth) Thought I would share my honest account of how I feel going into birth number 2 after a traumatic number one. I am not sure your article takes into account how a birth can affect a woman psychologically and how this can lead them to desire a sense of control / support / empowerment in their next birth. Belittling this need feels as far from being a feminist as one could be. I would have thought the psychological welfare of the Mother to be paramount in birthing, even if it is boring for people who had trouble-free births to hear about. Whatever helps a woman achieve this is crucial and to label her as a birthzilla for having this desire does nothing for the sisterhood.
http://www.sharnanigans.com/2012/04/maternity-ward-flashbacks/
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Yep
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Yes, yes, yes.
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Thank you x
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I laughed at this article. It was very well written and I thought some lines were completely HILARIOUS.
Do I agree? I don’t think I do overall, although I agree with the assertion that women shouldn’t feel smug about the way they gave birth.
As the daughter of a midwife, I have had a few strong opinions expressed to me (she is anti-epidural, for example). And, as a control freak who has anxiety, I know that I will probably have a birth plan. Especially as I am at risk of PND due to my mental health history, so I’ll require a post-birth-plan probably more than the birth itself.
On the one hand, I will probably want to say as little intervention as possible as I have a phobia of injections, and any medical procedure. I know my mother would support this.
On the other, I’m a big wuss, so who knows what I’ll do when there is a tiny human attempting to force exit from my loins. That’s a problem for Future T.
I know one thing for sure – the birth part is NOT what I am looking forward to. If I could have one delivered by stork that’d be wonderful.
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A lot of midwives are anti epidural and while I’m not a fan of them myself, I’ve always seen why people use them. As a result, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been asked to take care of the women that have an epidural going by others who are anti epidural. Just a pet peeve.
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I’m sorry, Faybian, I’m having trouble understanding exactly what you mean. Would you mind clarifying?
Just a quick note in case you think my mum is going around telling people what to do: my mother is no longer a practicing midwife, she is 69 years old, and only gives opinions when asked
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Not having a go at anyone, just moaning really.
Over the years I’ve come across some very, very anti epidural midwives, who will not care for a labouring women with an epidural unless they absolutely have to. I’m not one of them, so as a result, I used to get asked by my colleagues to care for them.
Honestly, if you think opinions can run riot here, you’ve never seen what a typical birth suite can be like, or mixing with a heap of midwives at an ACMI (aus college of midwives inc) conference. I’m sure your mum could tell you about it.
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I get you now. That doesn’t seem like a very unbiased attitude for them to take!
I didn’t think you were having a go, I was just making sure you knew I was only being given an opinion as I asked for one
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Oh hell YES!
I’m grateful that my kids were both born healthy – and ALIVE. My first child was born by emergency c-section… and born not breathing… I couldn’t have cared less that the doctor had just literally cut me open within minutes… or that my “birth plan” was lying on the floor of the operating theatre. I was just grateful I lived in the country I did in the year we were in… otherwise my darling daughter (now 13) and myself would have both died.
And I did NOT hesitate to have the elective c-section for my second child…. I don’t feel robbed… In fact I feel truly blessed that I was not robbed of my children’s love and presence in my life every day!
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Leave Mia alone! People who come up with birth plans should totally be mocked and labelled, because they are SILLY.
Mia is smart and funny and wears cool sass and bide jackets with fringey things. She is way better than those dopey birthzillas. I bet they all went to public schools.
I personally love the way Mia makes fun of people who aren’t as hip as her. That’s why we all love her, isn’t it! Lighten up people!
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I’m grappling with whether to take this comment for what it is or sarcasm…
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I’m going with sarcasm.
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yes. YES. YEEEESSSSS!!! I cannot tell you just how much I loved this article.
I can’t get over how many people seem to value their birth experience over their BABY.
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yes…like a mere afterthought. I’m with you sister.
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I had mia’s attitude for my first birth – although I couldn’t afford a pack of obstetricians, not even one actually – and I ended up having a very traumatic birth… I won’t bore you with the details except to say I will definitely be making a birth plan next time – and I don’t care if I’m judged for it by someone like Mia – happy mum equals happy baby
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While I appreciate some of your points and happily had a hospital birth myself, I completely support other women choosing their own way. There’s enough judgement and mummy bashing out there. Why add to it?
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Best comment here
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