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birth plans birthzillas 380x399 Birthzillas: when its all about the birth, not the baby

 

 

 

 

by MIA FREEDMAN

“Did you have a plan for your placenta?” the woman asked me earnestly. She was pregnant. I was confused.

We’d only just met at a BBQ and as she repeated her question, I cocked my head quizically like a Labradoodle trying to understand a complex sentence. I’d never heard the words ‘plan’ and ‘placenta’ together and I was having trouble reconciling them.

“Huh? You mean did I, like, cook it or bury it in the garden?” She shook her head. “No, I mean when you gave birth did you have a plan for how your placenta would be delivered?”

Blink. “Um, out of my vagina? Does that count as a plan?”

More head shaking. The woman was growing impatient because she had a plan and she wanted to tell me about it. Her three page birth plan had “Delivering The Placenta” as its own subhead with half a dozen bullet points underneath.

I know this because she showed it to me on her phone while I tried not to stab myself with a sausage.

My personal view of birth plans is that they’re most useful when you set them on fire and use them to toast marshmallows. But there are some women who live for them: I call them Birthzillas because just like a Bridezilla focusses on the wedding not the marriage, The Birthzilla appears more interested in having a birth experience than a baby.

This term won’t win me any friends among those who believe passionately in a particular type of birth. Homebirth, freebirth, waterbirth, hypnotic birth, active birth, calm birth, silent birth……there’s a first-world menu of options for anyone who wishes to select from it, both inside and outside the hospital system.

Birthzillas usually speak about ‘empowerment’ and ‘control’ and use a lot of personal pronouns. Their own experience is invariably at the centre of their narrative even though they will always claim (and probably believe) that they’re acting selflessly for the good of their baby. This baffles me. It’s a bit like going to Paris and obsessing about the in-flight entertainment instead of, you know, PARIS.

Some women define themselves by the type of birth they had, even though their children are now in primary school. I antagonised this subculture a few years ago when I spoke out about freebirth (the practice of giving birth at home without any medical support not even a midwife) and called it reckless.

Many “birth advocates” came after me with pitchforks and autosignatures like:

“Anne-Marie, mother of Wyllow (happily freebirthed in 2002) and Jaydyn (proudly waterbirthed at home in 2004).”

It’s birth as identity and it’s odd.

The Birthzilla is such a first world creation. For millions of women, their birth plan is simply: “please let my baby and I survive”. However, among privileged women with access to safe and affordable care, I’ve noticed a growing fixation on the birth process.

For many, it’s about control. One of the most confronting things about pregnancy and birth is the unpredictability of it and women often believe they can regain control by planning. Babies, however, like to raise their middle finger at your plans. They come early, they come late, they get stuck, they get suddenly distressed or tired or tangled. I know you’ve made three playlists for the different stages of your labour but your baby doesn’t care.

tina fey bossypants1 380x553 Birthzillas: when its all about the birth, not the babyIn her memoir, Bossypants, the brilliant Tina Fey describes the birth of her first child like this: “Vaginal delivery, epidural, didn’t poop on the table”. Those three pertinent facts sum it up, pre-emptively answering the most common questions other women ask.

Men? They couldn’t care less. Never in your life will you hear a man urge a woman, “Please! Tell me more about the way you gave birth!”. Not even if she’s his wife.

While most women need little encouragement to launch into a detailed account of her birth from conception to the first time she has sex afterwards, men generally try to leave the room when the subject comes up. It’s just not that interesting to them. I don’t mean the part where they saw their baby for the first time. That’s mind-blowing. But the bits before that? Utterly insignificant compared to the lifetime of parenting that comes afterwards.

I recently heard a woman on the radio waxing lyrical about how her two homebirths “were the most incredible experiences of my life and I don’t know anyone who had a hospital birth and could say the same thing”. Me. I could. Three hospital births. Loved them all. And this is where I start to get tetchy.

Let me state for the record: I’m a fan of doctors. Love them. Especially obstetricians. If I could give birth in a stadium full of people in white coats with letters after their names I would do a happy jig. What? You’re a doctor of French literature? Mathematics? Oh well, come on down! The more qualifications nearby, the better.

But in the maddening world of competitive mothering, some women see their birth experience as a platform for smugness and superiority. A badge of maternal honour. The game of My Birth Was Better Than Yours is an ugly, destructive one. And hugely risky if it puts anything above the physical welfare of a baby.

So yes, I could bang on and on about my birth experiences. But I’d prefer to tell you about my kids.

UPDATE 6pm Sunday 17 June: Having read most of the comments and watch the debate unfold over the day, I just wanted to clarify four things.

1. Being a feminist does not – to me – mean agreeing with every decision made and every opinion held by everyone who happens to have a vagina. I will always be authentic and honest about my own opinions and this column is an example of that. Some seem to believe it’s my ‘duty’ to support all women regardless of their choices or behaviour. I’m afraid that’s not going to happen. I am one person with one opinion. I don’t claim to speak on behalf of anyone else. There are hundreds of contributors to Mamamia and thousands of comments that reflect a hugely diverse range of opinions which is as it should be.

2. I am not suggesting making a birth plan is reckless or even stupid. I’m not suggesting it’s a good idea to walk into your birth knowing nothing. Many commenters below have spoken about ‘birth preferences’ which I think is sensible. But becoming too fixated on the way you give birth is, in my opinion, a misplaced priority and ultimately often futile. And I’ve seen sooooo many women shocked, bewildered, disappointed and even ashamed that their birth did not go according to their plan. Being aware that it could all go to hell is an important part of preparing for the very unpredictable experience of giving birth.

3. There is a broad spectrum of Birthzilla behaviour. Some of it – making detailed plans for your placenta or compiling endless playlists for your ipod – is harmless enough. Trivial even. You want a water birth in a birth centre? Why not. More insidious are the Birthzillas who derive status and superiority from the way they give birth. They can be almost passive aggressive about it. And who says giving birth at home or without drugs is somehow ‘better’ or ‘more meaningful’ than giving birth via c-section or with an epidural or with forceps?

4. At the extreme end of the Birthzilla spectrum are those women who put their birth experience above the health and wellbeing of their baby. And yes it happens. In fact the South Australian coronor recently found that three babies who died during homebirths would have certainly survived had they been born in hospitals. You can read more about that here. In each case, their mothers knew the pregnancies were high risk and chose to give birth at home without medical support anyway. Their babies died. And for what? That is where Birthzilla behaviour can actually be a matter of life and death.

 

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1,449 Comments so far

  1. Ana

    Fortunately none of my friends are Birthzilla’s, but are instead very realistic about their own expectations and experiences of birth and respectful of the same in others.

    HOWEVER, I see in forums online some toot’n-rifice examples of Birthzillas the like of which Mia is referring to. The sort of chatter that implies that only the birthing woman knows what giving birth means etc etc etc. These I think are the sort of women that Mia was talking to at her BBQ.

    To be frank, having nearly died in EARLY labour I’d probably punch one of these women out if they asked what I did with my placenta… and then punch them out again when they give me disparaging looks for only re-lacating to feed for only 8 months.

    The one thing I have learnt from three pregnancies, one miscarriage, one stillbirth and one live birth, is that the more I know the more I don’t know. It’s none of my business what someone else did with their placenta, or even if they’d have another.

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  2. Pattycake

    My birth plan.

    1. No drugs/no epidural
    2. Give birth standing upright in shower (at hospital)
    3. No music
    4. Delayed cord clamp.
    5. No vitamin K injection

    Really, is it that crazy?

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    • Diamond

      Just get the baby out so that you and him/her are well. The rest is insignificant, best wishes for the big day, and very one afterwards!!

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    • Concerned

      Yes, not vitamin K is crazy.

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      • Some people are so judgmental...

        Saying no to Vitamin K injection is not crazy! check out this link and make up your own mind… http://thebabybond.com/VitaminKinjectORnot.html
        2 points against injection because why would you intentionally hurt your baby by sticking a needle into him/her?
        Vit K can be given orally
        Breast feeding naturally increases Vit K in baby

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  3. Anonymous

    WAY TO GO MIA!!!
    I find it highly amusing that people say they had unnecessary medical intervention. Seriously people….do you think we would do things that are unnecessary and compromise our professional integrity/registration. I can assure you all that if you actually ASKED at the end of your birthing experience why something was done you may not see it has unnecesary and be thankful for the caring professionals that intervened where is was necessary to save you or your unborn childs life!

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    • A

      This is similar to what I said and I was crucified for it by women claiming there was no need for the interventions that were used to save them & their baby.
      If they don’t have a medical background then sometimes they don’t understand.

      But I also think that it’s the midwife & drs responsibility to explain why the intervention is necessary at the time rather than expecting them to ask at the end.

      I’m a nurse in an ED and I never do anything to a patient without telling them what & why I’m doing it & the benefits & risks. And I do it with compassion because I understand that they are scared & anxious, just like any mum to be is.

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  4. I'm guessing Mia didn't have natural births ;)

    A little jealous are we Mia??

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    • Anon

      She did. Do your research.

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    • Lana

      That is really inappropriate and actually reinforces what Mia is saying!

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    • Natasha

      @ I’m guessing…. You sound like the typical Birthzilla Mia is talking about in this article. Seriously if you think women get jealous of natural births you truly deserve this title.

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    • Shannon

      I can’t believe you were successful.

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    • Anna

      I think you are missing the point. Why should someone be made to feel their experience was any less magnificent because of the method used or route the baby took to exit mums body. It may seem like the be all and end all, but once you’ve lost a baby you realise very quickly that the anatomical region it finally pops out of, and how many people it takes to get it out and breathing is really not that big a deal. Nor is the soundtrack.

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      • JustMe

        Exactly and for women who cant fall pregnant or have multiple miscarriages do you think they would care how their baby was born, they have a care factor of zero, all they want is a live baby to take home.

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        • Jamie

          I had a hospital birth, followed by multiple miscarriages, and then a home birth. Don’t try to speak for me.

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    • AmandaJane

      In “Mamamia”, Mia’s book, page 258, a chapter dedicated to the birth of Mia’s daughter. It’s beautifully written, a very funny and honest account of a natural, drug free delivery. You should read it.

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    • Sue

      Although I agree with Mia’s thoughts about how wrong it is for birth to be a competition sport, I wasn’t sure if she’d gone too far with the way she wrote this article, because of how much it’s upset some people. Then I read your ridiculous and nasty comment! Now I agree with her completely. Yep, there really are people who completely meet the criteria for the term she’s coined.

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  5. Ness

    My plan was, there is no plan well aside from having a healthy baby. I think if you’re the kind of person that needs a plan then that’s fine but people need to be prepared for the fact that your baby doesn’t know about your plan and also has no interest in YOUR plan! You need to go into it with a ‘go with the flow’ attitude really. I’ve had 3 babies and had no ‘plan’ with any of them, well aside from having the second and third through the birth centre ( wasn’t available with first) really wanted to use that nice big bath for pain relief however second one was born 5 minutes after arriving at hospital and third one arrived at a time when my midwife had already worked maximum hours and so had second midwife so couldn’t use birth centre! So there went all my plans for nice bug bath!! Ahhhh babies can be so inconsiderate! ;)

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  6. Elinor

    Thank goodness for your voice of reason Mia. Much appreciated.

    I felt intense pressure from my mother-in-law to have vaginal births for my daughters.
    I have a rare uterus structure meaning that conception and carrying babies to term could be very difficult. My husband and I remain ecstatic that we were ever able to have our two children at all. I had two c-sections, and fully believe that if if were not for the amazing skill of my obstetrician, it’s possible that my children would not have been born healthily, or that my uterus would have coped to have a second child.

    No matter how many times we explained my medical situation to my mother-in-law, she was devastated that the way my children were ‘cut out of me’. The rhetoric was about ‘how would the baby know it was meant to come out’ if it was not being birthed vaginally etc.

    With the first pregnancy I was very upset by what she was saying. By the second one, I didn’t care.

    2 babies later I am so so thrilled that we have perfect amazing children to enjoy every day and I could not care less about the birth. I am so pleased that you write such pragmatic, realistic and informative articles. THANKYOU!!!!!

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    • Diamond

      Glad you stayed strong, your mother in law should really spend less time talking about your vagina!!!!!!

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    • Mel b

      Mother in laws can be so Cruel at times! My MIL and I were just talking about the experience I had delivering my first son, she is all for the details. It took a bad turn and she was telling me like 2 days after, it doesn’t hurt THAT much stop going on about it. Ok nice :(
      As long as you and your babies were safe just laugh in her face. Its her stupid opinion, as that’s all it is :) hang in there.

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    • Elle

      Lordy, she sounds like a real piece of work…and a bit unhinged… If she feels so strongly about your births (WTF?!) you’re probably going to have an interesting few years ahead. Best of luck hey.

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      • Elinor

        Thanks for your support! Appreciate it! x

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  7. Fanny McNee

    Giving birth is a freaking hard thing to do. The pain is maybe the most intense pain a woman may experience.

    If a woman manages to give birth drug free without unnecessary intervention (and yes, do the research….having a c-section because you don’t want to push a baby out, medical reasons aside, is UNECESSARY) hats off to her. We should sing her praises and strive a natural birth because a natural birth with no complications is what most pregnant women want, and it IS obtainable in a large percentage of cases.

    You can attempt a natural birth in a hospital with doctors on hand if needed, you know?

    You don’t have to be a high risk hippy, giving birth at home to have a natural birth.

    Sheeeesh, the way this is being discussed, what legacy are we leaving our children’s children?

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    • mel

      yep, i had a completely natural 2nd birth, 6 hrs beginning to end, in a public hospital. the midwives mostly left my husband and i along, i gave birth with their support in the shower. i honestly dont even recall seeing the ob although he must have come in at some point. we were left alone after for about an hour, starkly different to my first delivery but hey who cares? i got a healthy baby both times :)

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  8. erin23

    I have to say I really disagree with you Mia. I think that birth plans do have a place when you are preparing for the arrival of your baby. I made one because it forced me to know about all the aspects of the birth process besides pain relief (I had no idea that you could get injections to deliver a placenta or about delayed cord clamping) and also so that everyone who would be looking after me in hospital would be on the same page, without being asked by 10 different people what my wishes were. Of course, the flip side is that if it doesn’t go according to plan, that can suck – but at the end of the day, if you can have a birth plan but realistic expectations of how it will go, they are very useful. Needs of the baby are paramount, but I really wouldn’t have appreciated a pushy doctor trying to talk me into pain relief/induction either.

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    • erin23

      and as a side note, while I have the utmost respect for doctors, not all of them are fantastic. I had very expressly said that I wanted to breastfeed, and was doing so pretty successfully after my baby was born, but then a doctor tried to force me to give my bub formula because I hadn’t made enough colostrum. Luckily I had a midwife who looked after me the entire time I was pregnant who advocated on my behalf, explained that my milk production was fine and let me continue exclusively breastfeeding. Some of you might think it’s not such a big deal, but it was to me at the time (“OH MY GOD I’M NOT MAKING ENOUGH MILK MY BABY IS GOING TO STARVE” is what I said while sobbing my eyes out lol)

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      • kiwichick

        hi erin and well said

        maybe some have forgotten that the natural way to give birth is standing / crouching

        gravity doesn’t help if you are lying on your back

        from memory i think we have the Emperor Napolean to thank for that

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  9. Anonymous

    While I’m sure everyone would agree that the ultimate goal is a healthy baby and mum, research suggests many benefits to having a birth without drugs (for baby and mum). Therefore you could argue that a birth without drugs would be preferable or dare I say ‘better’.

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  10. Wendy

    Er, I have scanned all these posts because now I need to know!: what exactly is “a plan for how your placenta would be delivered” ?? Vaginally, right?

    I am not being facetious, I have honestly never given my placenta much thought, beyond the obvious awe and respect for keeping my baby alive to term. For this I count myself very lucky.

    Can any midwives/doctors out there tell me what are the supposed options and implications for the placental birth? In a medical sense, I mean. Or maybe that’s not what its about? Thanks!

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    • Anonymous

      You do need to think about how you ‘plan’ to deliver your placenta…either naturally, or with a drug called ‘Syntocinon’ which is administered either as an intramuscular injection or intravenously. Being a drug that you might be taking you should know what it does and whether it has any side effects. It is used to avoid a ‘retained placenta’ which can be a complication of birth.

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      • Anonymous

        Thank you for answering so succinctly, it rings a bell now! I guess I thought there must be more to it…

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  11. essessesse

    This is like a car crash.

    I think the comments I’ve seen on here tonight are amongst the worst I’ve ever seen on here. No respect for anyone or their opinion. Telling people to calm down & have a cup of tea in an attempt to patronise and offend. Numerous trolls. Stalkers. Name calling. Buckets of vitriol.

    Well, it’s a roaring success. You need to do something about moderating the comments on this site properly and not just waiting for them to be reported. It’s like being back in the playground & being surrounded by the bullies & loud idiots.

    I think I’m done. Good luck with it all.

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    • Anonymous

      You have been a troll yourself essessesse..

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    • Anonymous

      Sorry essessesseess… you have been a troll yourself.. Calm down yourself.

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      • Cold

        Troll in the dungeon! OMG anonymous you are like soooo funny. Does your mummy know you are on the computer?

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        • Shannon

          Wait…they use a Harry Potter reference for this? The internet just got a whole lot more awesome.

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          • erin23

            the troll was in the girl’s toilets in harry potter… oh god i can’t believe that was my first thought reading your comment haha

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            • Cold

              Lol!

              I feel a bit sorry for the trolls. I think they have no friends.

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            • Shannon

              The main thing is that you remembered Quirrell in the end! :P

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      • essessesse

        Okay, anonymous. You care so much you posted the same comment twice, so I’ll validate your existence. You’re very keen to get my attention.

        The definition of an internet troll taken from Wikepedia is:

        ‘someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.’

        Now, if you or one of the 4 people who liked your comment would like to show where I have done this, I would be delighted to see it. All I see is an anonymous poster making the same comment over and over and over again, many of which have already been deleted over the last couple of days.

        Your positive contribution to the topic has been zero. Clearly I’ve pissed you off somewhere on this site but I think you need to take your own advice and calm down. Life is too short to worry about anonymous people on the internet.

        There you go, sweetie. Now, if your posting pattern persists in response to any further posts of mine I will report you for stalking. Your IP address can be traced, you know.

        Think about it.

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    • JustMe

      No way is this the worst, that would be the anti-vaxers. The birthzillas are a close second!!

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  12. Why can't Mia just be kind

    Oh Mia I’m so disappointed in you. Abusing your position in the media by trying to portray ‘mums with a plan’ as control freaks that only have their own interests at heart and not the baby’s is disgusting. You have gone too far. Suggesting that the only way to birth is surrounded by a heap of professionals instead is just wrong. Why not empower women. Instead of making women feel like they need to not trust that their bodies can do this and instead submit to a doctor’s control and give up. It’s just wrong Mia. So wrong.
    I also think it is disgusting that you are portraying those who are proud of their birth experience as Birthzillas. You are so downputting. I have a medical issue that required me to have no drugs. It wasn’t even a choice. I knew this before falling pregnant and if I wanted this baby then I needed to did a way to manage the pain naturally. I wrote a birth plan on the suggestion of my ob. I birthed in a private hospital and had a 4kg baby with drugs. It was safe and empowering as a woman because I achieved my goal. I rose above the pain and did it. I’m so proud of that because it was hard. Much harder than submitting to a drug. Much harder! I didn’t have that option at all. So what if I’m proud of that. I did it. My body did that. It took over. Should I now be demonized by the all knowing Mia who is trying to put down all those women who put themselves out there, dealt with the pain and delivered a baby safely. I’m f”"ing proud of that. And you, Mia, can’t take that away and nor should you even try. You are abusing your power here and I’m so disappointed in you. If you were an even slightly nice and respectful woman then you would never have written this post and instead do something kind and loving that empowers women. Not appeases the conscience of a select few.

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    • Nat

      @ why cant mia just be kind… Sorry I agree with Mia, Birthzilla’s are painful. Read the article properly and then comment. She is not having a dig at women who dont have drugs. Why dont you read an article, grasp it , and then make your comment.

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  13. katehegs

    Mia, YOU are the only birthzilla I have ever come across. Nearly every post you write sanctimoniously asserts that anyone who didn’t give birth the way YOU did must be having a ‘lifestyle birth’.

    How is it feminist to consistently degrade women who seek to educate themselves about birth and are passionate about it? It is not about agreeing with people on a same-genital basis. As a social worker, I know that knowledge is power, and as such cannot stand it when people who have social, economic, educational and cultural resources say ‘nobody told me’ (which is unfair itself, we all have faults). Indeed, I had a complication in my birth – shoulder dystocia – which I had come across in my research. And so when my husband had to press the emergency button and 6 people came running and set up a crash cart and my doctor told me I had shoulder dystocia I did not panic but asked whether I needed to get into the position for the Gaskin manoeuvre (had read about it) – my doctor was pretty impressed.

    Placenta delivery is actually quite an important stage of birth – sometimes it doesn’t just come out through you vagina and then doctors have been known to impatiently tug on the cord which can cause the cord to break, which in turn causes haemorrhaging, and need for immediate surgery.

    Do you understand that most doctors and midwives would in fact prefer women to be actively involved in their birth? My obstetrician expected me to have a birthplan and so did all midwives – and I gave birth in a stodgy private hospital that didn’t even allow water birth. It is immensely helpful to facilitate a birth if the woman already understands the birthing process, such as positions for anterior/ posterior labour etc etc.

    For the anecdotal record, the only women I know who were ‘soooooo shocked’ by birth were the ones who went into not knowing anything about it – and shocked were they indeed and rightly so. And they seem to have more problems during the birthing process and also more problems breastfeeding.

    And finally – my birth plan went through what I wanted in terms of pain relief (patchouli-incense-burners-stress-balls- mantras-read-it-and-weep), what I wanted to happen if I needed an emergency caesar, what I wanted to happen if I died, if my baby died, etc, etc – oh yes, so irresponsible of me, so lifestyle, doctor knows best, who knew women could even read blah blah.

    However, I do somewhat agree that this is really all just a pissing contest of privilege. In order to do the research I had to have access to the resources mention above, and this needs to be rectified – but not by demonising the people who seek to redress this balance by educating all women about birth through the medium of birth stories and birth plans.

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    • Hol

      Kate, as a fellow “shoulder dystocia” semi-victim (my poor little man was the one who suffered) I also did my research in preparation for my third labour/delivery.
      Unfortunately, it did not go to plan because I was induce due to Preeclampsia, but I went into my labour knowing manouvres that could help deliver my baby without him being on the clock, without watching him need oxygen following his birth, without seeing him limp and unresponsive.

      I had a plan. A plan to do everything in my power to help myself and my baby.
      Birthzilla?
      Hardly.

      Did the OB who I had for my checkups actually educate me on any of the positions and manouvres used to uncomplicate a shoulder dystocia delivery?
      Absolutely not.

      Birth plans are fantastic, they allow women choice, they allow women to gain control of their own bodies in the sense that an OB won’t get scalpel happy instead allowing a women to tear.
      Small reasonable requests which can make a huge difference in how a women recovers mentally after a birth.

      You can have a healthy baby, and an experience that you feel positively about :)

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      • katehegs

        Oh Hol, I am so sorry to hear that, it must have been incredibly traumatic to see your son limp and unresponsive. I hope he was also not injured in the process. Thankfully we avoided that with our son, my ob did an excruciatingly painful but expeditious manoeuvre with his hands (after an episiotomy which he asked to be allowed to do) while I pushed but it did not injure our baby and he started to cry seconds after the birth. I of course was in a fair amount of shock. Phew. Stupidly I gave birth on my back which I will never do again obviously!

        Again, yet another reason to be interested in your own body and what helps it – birthing positions DO matter but modern obstetricians are surgical specialists and unfortunately many of them lack clinical skills for difficult vaginal deliveries.

        Thanks for sharing your story.

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    • kiwichick

      well said kate

      we are all different and should respect that we all can have different ideas about just about every part of our lives

      and getting married or having a baby are big days in anyones life

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    • amd

      Kate, I feel like I want to meet you so I can high 5 you. Great response. I didn’t have a birth plan written down, but of course I had some ideas. Last time I checked, my children were coming out of MY body, so I kind of wanted to be, you know, involved. This article says alot more about Mia than it does about mums who write their birthing ideas down!!

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      • katehegs

        YES HIGH FIVE! I know, I am not sure I understand the negative push against women being involved in their own births – very strange, very retro and dare I say – quite lifestyle? Twilight sleep all round while the good doctor vacuums the baby out? Cigars afterwards?

        As a previous commenter pointed out, Mia did not have a good experience when she could not have an epidural for her first birth and had be unprepared to labour without it – so in essence her own birth plan went out the window and did not not cope with the consequences.

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  14. Natasha

    The best article written by Mia.

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  15. boo

    ha mia ……i think you have no right to sterotype and give names and label people. But whilst i am here i might give you a label should i call you a carpetsnifferzilla or a knockingonthe wallzilla. ……ha because thats what you endorse and are all about.

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    • Nat

      Oh Boo, Birthzilla is the funniest name I have heard for these women who carry on about the birth, the placenta, and their organic birth plan. Get yourself a little sense of humour perhaps

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      • Anonymous

        yeh that’s right…SOME women. Not all women who think about their birth plans. If I wanted grotesque generalisations and name calling, I’d read Andrew Bolt. At least he’s consistent. None of this “now don’t be mean and judge or name call Chrissie Swan for giving her 3 year old 5 bananas a day, but let’s just group and label every mother who doesn’t give birth like me and mock them” crap. HYP.O.CRITE!

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  16. fifi-lulu

    Mia, read your article in the morning paper as I do every Sunday – I look forward to reading what you have to say, because most of the time its common sense from a logical perspective.

    My favourite line was ‘just like a Bridezilla focusses on the wedding not the marriage, The Birthzilla appears more interested in having a birth experience than a baby’.

    It’s about the outcome, not the process.
    The best part of birth is when you look down in awe at your new, healthy baby (who is still attached) and they are staring back at you with their big, brown eyes. Your heart just swells up with so much love you that think it might burst. You have to remember to keep breathing because this little person you have been carrying inside of you for 9 months simply takes your breath away. And you can’t stop staring and smiling down at them. Will never, ever forget that moment.

    Birth and weddings are significant because they represent the beginning of (hopefully) long-term joys. Why do people focus so much on the short term event, when managing the long-term is the real challenge e.g. parenting and staying married.

    As a family we did have a big wedding and celebrated the birth of our children. We remember these occassions annually because they were significant events in our lives. They also represent how far we have come and the memories we created together – they’re called ‘birthdays’ and ‘anniversaries’.
    No one has ‘birth experience rememberance days’ recalling the step-by-step events of someone’s birth! It’s about the outcome, not the process. LOL.

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    • oddsocks

      I have 3 healthy sons…. the first few moments of for my first was screaming to God, begging for my sons life as he was being resuscitated, for my second son the first few moments were me silent and shocked as I listened to the doctors giving my baby CPR on the resus table. My third birth was absolute tears of joy as I held my wet and sticky boy to my chest, absolutely amazing.
      Still every birthday for the eldest two (the youngest is not yet 1) I shed tears… remembering the hours leading up to their first moments, the fear of knowing my little ones lives were hanging on a thread.
      Sometimes the process is a big deal…. 10 months on from my youngest being born I still frequently dream that I am pregnant and my baby is dying and no one will help me get him out…..
      Please understand that for some of us birthdays are also days of remembering…

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      • Ana

        I totally agree! My girl just turned one and I actually found it traumatic. I was sorta in the same position when DD was 10 months – if you wanna go down that track it could be worth talking to a counsellor. It’s no fun having flashbacks and dreams that interfere in your life

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      • fifi-lulu

        oddsocks, I feel for you because you have been through a lot. Many people do, but probably not to the same extent as almost losing your child.

        My first child’s birth had every intervention under the sun and did not go according to my perception of what a birth should be like.

        The beautiful experience of looking into your newborns eyes was my second baby. It that took me a long, long time (years) to get over the birth experience of my first child. The anxiety and sadness you experience will get better over time (my son is 10 now) and if you feel it won’t I’d suggest to speak to your GP about it.

        The context of ‘birth rememberance days’ was more about gloating the details that make you feel superior about it, not your own personal feelings.

        On a side note, I have never told my son his birth details other than he was ten days overdue and a beautiful baby.

        In reality, I went into distress, was hooked up to machines, hallucinating, thought I was going to die, ended up with a spinal block but not the epidural I was screaming out for hours (as the hospital was ‘busy’), had an epi, lots of stiches, forceps and about 15 people in the room. They put him on my chest and said ‘congratulations, you have a baby boy’. I said ‘get that thing off of me’. I could never tell him that.

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  17. ClaIre

    This update is no good, Mia. You’re not apologising for the nasty name calling of birthzilla. That’s just trolling and you know it. *unfollows*

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    • Anonymous

      Claire, you seriously need to sit down with a good warm cup of tea. Your posts are inept and you sound like a pest

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      • Anon

        Anonymous do you work for Dilmah?

        You seem very keen for everyone to drink tea. You are an inept tea pest. Please sit down.

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        • Esther

          Hahaha This has been my favorite comment so far :)

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    • Lou

      @Claire… I love the name Birthzilla, I cant stop laughing … You need to take a chill pill.

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      • fifi-lulu

        I agree. I thought Birthzilla was a clever play on words .e.g. Bridezilla (a widely accepted term).

        Sheesh, you’d only get offended if you were guilty of making others feel like ratshit because they did not have the perfect birthplan or birth experience.

        If you just recognised that you were acting in that holier-than-thou, my-birth-was-far-more-superior-than-ayone-else’s-on-the-planet kind of way, then yeah get offended that it now has a name. And then stop acting that way and recognise that each birth is different and the outcome is more important anyway.

        Mia, I recently saw you in an interview and you said you needed a thick skin to be in this business. Your skin must be thicker than the rock guy I was watching in Fantastic 4 last night!

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    • Hol

      I agree Claire.
      For me the label of “birthzilla” has negative connotations.
      I think it is childish and from someone who is held in relatively high-esteem by many, many woman, it is pretty uncalled for.

      Thumbs down to the unnecessary namecalling :(

      This could have been an awesome discussion welcoming opinions from others as well as getting your own across had there not been a labelling of those who do make choices for their births.

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  18. Anonymous

    My mother had no birthing plan with me. I came 2 weeks early but everything went very smoothly.

    My mother did have a birthing plan with my brother and sister (twins). They came three weeks early but everything went wrong. There were so many complications, she had to have an emergency c-section. After the c-section, she had even further complications, as did my siblings.

    It’s fine to have a plan as long as mothers realise it’s simply a “hope” that that will be how the birth turns out. It’s in no way written in stone. All you can hope for is that the baby and mother is safe.

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    • Anonymous

      I’m sorry your mum had a rough time with the twins but it wasn’t because she had a birth plan. It was because things went wrong. It is very important to remember that.

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      • Anon

        I don’t think she was suggesting that the birth plan was to blame! Rather, that the birth will turn out however it will, regardelss of whether you have a birth plan or not.

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        • Anonymous

          ^Exactly Anon. I wasn’t suggesting it was because of the birthing plan. Regardless of the birthing plan she had, nothing turned out as expected.

          The birth will happen as it happens. Hopefully it will all work out but sometimes, it’s just doesn’t. As long as baby and mother are safe and well, nothing else matters.

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          • The first anon in this little group!

            That’s cool, I just read it that way! As though first birth no plan, went well, second birth with plan went bad!

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  19. jb expat

    Birth plan: select a private OB with a stellar reputation who I respect, tell him all I trulycare about is a healthy mother/healthy baby…follow advice (I spend a lot of time researching the doctors I see generally, and once I select them, put a large amount of faith in their expertize). Given that my waters broke 4 weeks early and no labor followed, my plan made perfect sense – deferred to his opinion that an unplanned (I hate calling it an emergency because it wasn’t in the true sense of the word) c-section was his advised course rather than induce and put a less than full term baby through the birth process which he believed wouldn’t be successful and would end up as a real emergency c-section with a distressed baby. Do I know for sure that he was right? nope…but I am 100% certain that I’d do the same thing all over again.

    One of the things I’ve wondered, is when people go private, and pay lots of $ for a specific OB, are they more likely to follow the OB’s advice? if not, why pay for a private OB?

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  20. bll

    why do you even care? some people plan, some dont. i had 2 x hospy births, both with epi’s and had a plan for both. happy days. someone wants to birth their placenta a certain way, surely thats their choice / right??

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  21. Anonymous

    People get bothered by everything these days. It seems we live in a society where if you don’t agree with someone, you’re attacking their very belief system!

    The birth is about having a baby and the focus should be on the fact that you’re having a BABY! Hopefully the birth works out how the mother was hoping for, however childbirth can change in the blink of an eye. Everything can be fine one moment and on not the next. As long as people with birth plans realise that not everything will go to what they’ve planned and they feel better writing the plan, then that’s fine.

    At the end of the day a birth is about the mother and the baby. To a lesser extent the father. THAT’S ALL! It shouldn’t become a competitive sport like everything else about our lives seems to be these days. If you want to do a birth plan – good! If you don’t – good!

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  22. RM

    I think it is wonderful mia enjoyed her experience birthing in hospital. I too birthed twice in hospital and feel those were two great experiences. I had my mother providing brilliant support and my husband, well…. there….. And I believe it is the loving, thoughtful support given by my mother that made my births as good as they were. My birth plan was never written, didn’t have multiple points and was focused on the safe arrival of a healthy baby and within that context I discussed with my mother and husband my desire to birth naturally to the extent possible. Part of creating my very unofficial birth plan was learning about the process of birth and how I could handle it. And, it is incredibly important to understand what your body is doing during birth. It is foolish to suggest “get it out” as a birth plan if that is not supported by an understanding of your own body. Whether or not a mother chooses to put her trust in medical professionals – it is HER body doing the birthing. I wouldn’t attempt to drive a car without understanding how to do it, I wouldn’t attempt to cook souffle without understanding how to do it and I didn’t think about birthing without understanding the process. In the same way that I might change my route if there was traffic delays, substitute ingredients in the souffle if I was missing some, I was open to whatever options may arise to welcome my babies safely. I even thought about how delivering my placenta would happen. I mean, again, it was coming from MY vagina, so I did have a little think about it.

    It is a shame mia went on to use her article to judge and demonize women who think differently to her. To suggest that women who prepare for births are doing it at the sake of their parenting is bizarre and over the top. Instead of providing a great supportive article empowering women regardless of their birth experience, Mia ended up doing little more than criticizing other mothers and showing her insecure side… Again…

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    • Anonymous

      I didn’t get that from the article at all. This was a specific situation Mia found herself is. Also it’s certainly true that birthing, along with everything else in our lives are becoming a competitive sport.

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  23. Anna

    The gift is the baby delivered alive and well. So my “birth plan” was just that : get this baby out one way or another, and take it from there. So in that sense I had the perfect birth experience! It all went exactly how I planned it!

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  24. A

    Ill keep it short and sweet..

    I dispise when mothers (with no medical experience) use the term “unnecessary intervention”
    As a nurse, I can tell you write now that NO doctor/midwife or nurse would ever intervene unnecessarily.

    Why would anyone create more work for themselves or risk their registration in case they did something wrong?

    An intervention is only done if necessary, so that the mother & baby can STAY ALIVE. Also, not intervening is a crime too & I’m sure the mother wouldnt appreciate it if the dr left her baby stuck without oxygen so she could satisfy her birth plan.

    So next time a non medically trained know-it-all mother uses the term ‘unnecessary intervention’ ask her if her& her baby are safe then ask her how it was unnecessary.

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    • Anonymous

      I had intervention that I believe was unnecessary and no I am not safe. My mental health has suffered greatly.

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      • Alana

        There’s an indication for any medical intervention, even if you didn’t realise there was. The people there are to care for you & your baby.

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        • Anonymous

          Actually I’ve been through my medical notes with a qualified health professional and no, the intervention was not necessary.

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    • Kate

      I also had intervention by an Obstetrician that I believe strongly was unnecessary. Neither my baby nor myself were in danger or distress. Even the attending midwife was not impressed. I was not safe after the intervention. Both my body and my darling baby suffered.

      “A” How on earth could you claim to know what happens in every situation?

      Pure ignorance.

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      • A

        My sympathy is with you but this would be a rare case & perception is everything.

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    • MotherClucker

      “A” for you

      http://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/5/813

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    • Anya

      Sadly I’ve known two student midwives who’ve basically come out with stories such as the ob told me that I could have got her to push whenever. I’ll stitch her up afterwards, that’s what I’m here for.

      Hard to feel that the system is really there for the women after hearing stories like that.

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      • Jo

        There’s a world of horror stories out there and A’s perspective is either rooted in denial or ignorance. I wish it was true, but it aint.

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    • Sam P

      I’m no fan of free-birth etc for me. But if you want to do it, and you know the risks, that’s your choice, but to state essentially that all interventions are necessary is incredibly naive.
      Having worked in hospitals, I’ve seen babies delivered by forceps so that Doctors don’t miss a golf game, their kid’s ballet concert. Literally. Honestly. No exaggeration. I’ve witnessed women being given drugs to speed along labor so the baby can be delivered on the same date as Grandpa. I’ve seen a c-section scheduled for three weeks before due date for a first time mother with no medical reason to have a c-section who wanted the timing to fit in with her busy work schedule.
      As for myself, I had a doctor tell me, at 13 weeks pregnant (I was bleeding) that it was “too hostile” for a baby to survive and he’ll just “Clean it all up”. I asked if that was a heartbeat I could see. “Yes, but it won’t survive”. I walked out, never saw that OB again. And that heartbeat that wouldn’t survive? He just walked in and asked me what “adhesive” means.
      All unnecessary. All to suit ignorant mothers and selfish medical personnel. None to save mothers or babies.

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      • Anna

        Did you report those doctors to the board? The ones who didn’t want to miss their golf game/ballet recital? You have a professional (and legal) obligation to do so. Or do you just prefer to spout off about it in the Internet because it’s a good dramatic story? REALLY standing up for women there, aren’t you?

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  25. Mostly

    Thanks for this article Mia! My husband and I filled out our birth plan yesterday – the hospital has asked us to bring one – and I pretty much wrote it in a few lines; whatever needs to happen that will get bub and mum through this alive!

    Interestingly, since I am due in two weeks, I have encountered a lot of advice and tut-tutting about different delivery methods…I am dreading the questions that will come after the birth….especially when some friends have made it very clear about how they feel about stuff like epidurals. Who knew this was worth judgement? Apparently it is.

    I’ll try and tell them about my kid instead ;)

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    • Anna

      How exciting! One more piece advice from a stranger – go in with an open mind, come out with a baby. Best wishes for the big day!

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  26. First Timer

    Wow Mia you’ve hit a sore spot! Meow Meow Meow hey!!
    I did a birth plan. When the pain got worse it went out the window and all I wanted was an epidural. No shower, no bath, no water, no-one to touch me ANYWHERE (save the midwife and Dr) no music, no smelling salts nor essence. I felt like an idiot giving my Dr a prescribed birthing plan that looked like nothing that eventually happened anyway. I said no to a C-section but had to have one in my 2nd birth. I said no to a suction but had to have that. I did what was needed to keep my baby and me alive and well. That is the core of what Mia is saying. I get you Mia, I know what you are saying and but maybe the Birthzilla title makes some women feel judged? Anyway, a newbie to this site I love it and your books.

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  27. shaz1969

    Well what a can of worms you have opened up……You are spot on, loved reading this while cooking dinner for my 2 kids, who were both born in a hospital.

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  28. georgia

    Excellent article. I’m a medical student who has recently completed my Obstetrics and Gynaecology rotation and the insight and sense demonstrated in this article is fantastic. The main thing to remember regarding the birthing process is that Anything Can Happen – in which case women need to be flexible with their ‘planning.’ You have acknowledged this perfectly.

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    • georgia

      Forgot to add that if I do become an obstetrician, I will be printing this article for my waiting room :)

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      • Anonymous

        I’m sure your patients will love that georgia.

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      • Kate

        Yikes Georgia.

        Will definitely be sticking with my Obstetrician who supports, educates and encourages his patients to feel safe and as in control as is possible in a volatile and highly variable situation like birth.

        :)

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      • Anonymous

        With an attitude like that, please, please don’t go into obstetrics.

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      • Jess

        Wow Georgia.. Im sure your patients who are paying up to $15,000 to have you ‘support’ them during their birth will just LOVE to know your opinions opposing birth plans and ‘birthziillas’…

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  29. JosieY

    I don’t say this very often but this is one case where i completely disagree with Mia! I think the birth experience is very important, not as important as an alive mother and child but to me the physcological health of the mother is as important as the physical. I had to fight very hard for the birth i wanted – almost one year to the day before i had my second child I had major colo-rectal surgery to remove a cancer and a large part of my rectum. I am incredibly fortunate to be alive and well and it is due in no small part to the wonrful surgeon and dr’s who operated on me. However, when my surgeon and later my (private) ob both pushed me to have a ceaser, i was terrified. I had a long and sometimes brutal recovery from my surgery and the idea of having surgery again frankly terrified me. In the end we went public (private getting too expensive even with insurance) and found an on who was happy to let me try for my natural birth.

    Yes, this was incredibly important to me. Yes, ihad a birth plan – no ceaser unless absolutely nessecary! And i had a wonderful birth with no pain relief that i am very proud of. Does that make me better than the woman down the hall who had an elective ceaser? No, of course not! And i have heard very few people claim it does. Of course, there are always the nut jobs and fanatics, but in general i think we like to share our birth stories because we are human and stories are a major way we communicate (says the girl with a major in biblical studies – i like stories!).

    As to women in 3rd world countries, i doubt very much they begrudge us the priviledge of being able to be active participants in our own lives. I really don’t get that particular argument… I know i am fortunate to live in a place with such choices, so shouldn’t i embrace them? Or ko we not send our kids to school because other children don’t have that opportunity?

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    • kat

      I don’t think “no caesar unless absolutely necessary” constitutes the form of detailed birth plan Mia clearly discusses in her article

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    • Anonymous

      I’m not against birthing plans. As long as women realise that the birthing plan is just that – A PLAN. It does NOT guarantee that that is what will happen. Childbirth can child in the blink of an eye and something action needs to be taken immediately. A must take the back seat to saving the baby and/or mother.

      Also some people seem to think birthing is a competitive sport. As though somehow having a drug free birth, water birth, home birth, or whatever else, somehow makes them a better woman or mother. I’m not suggesting that YOU feel that but others do. It’s becoming another way to judge other women.

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    • Ana

      My birth plan was exactly that – no caesar unless life-and-death necessary. As it turns out it was life and death necessary. I ended up with a caesar under general anaesthetic. Precisely the only thing that I had wanted to avoid. No sort of plan could have avoided what happened.

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  30. Ant

    Mia,I agree with you entirely!! I also find mothers who don’t immunize their children also judge mothers that choose to immunize. Being a mother is hard enough! No judgment please fellow mothers!!

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    • Eva

      As a mother who almost had her 2 month old die of whooping cough last year this topic makes my blood boil. This was a disease that was almost dead and has come back because it’s been allowed back. I think you should only allowed to not immunize if you have spent three nights in a hospital watching the parents and babies crying as the babies turn blue coughing on the hour every hour. I have to walk away from conversations now because it’s so upsetting. Sorry a bit off the topic

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  31. Jamie

    Of all the patronising rubbish which has been published here on Mamamia, this tops it all. Stop demonising women who think about pregnancy and birth differently to you. You call yourself ‘pro-choice’ yet all you are doing here is limiting women and turning us against each other. You should be ashamed.

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    • Donsie

      I can’t for the life of me understand why you would continue to read “all the patronising rubbish which has been published here on Mamamia”, have you nothing better to occupy your time with?????

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  32. OverThinking

    Really like this article the birth plan thing drove me nuts. I didn’t have one and all was fine. Pain, drugs, most beautiful baby I’ve ever seen, terrific partner! Done.
    BUT I’ve just been sitting here thinking about this and my argumentative brain started debating – how much effort is put into planning a 90 minute football game by a bunch of blokes? – endless hours of getting a ‘plan’ for what everyone will do and that’s less complicated and less painful. How much time is spent forging business plans for much less important outcomes than a baby.
    So now I’m torn like Nat Imbruglia. Torn!
    (footyzilla?)

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    • neola

      My advice: whatever you do, wherever you give birth, never EVER include that Natalie Imbruglia song in your birth playlist! :-)

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  33. Megan Rogers

    Really sad about this article. I used to love Mia and this site. I had my baby in a private hospital and spent a lot of time on my birth plan. Not to be superior or anything like that but to help educate myself about the process and also because I wanted to feel as though I had a choice when it came to my body and baby. My husband also did get a lot out if it and enabled him to feel part of it rather than just an observer. I understand some of the points made, and I know Mia often gets harsh criticism that us unwarranted but I feel differently about her now and this site. How terrible to criticise something which is so important for so many women :(

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  34. Anna

    I love this. It’s so true that people stopped caring about living life and instead just keep up with the Joneses. Who gives a flip what the Joneses are doing? That’s their business.

    Really everyone is different. Your pelvis is different. Your complications will be different. But not taking medical advice is stupid. Some of the expecting mothers I’ve seen are simply using as an outlet for passive aggression. It’ll be refocussed post birth. But I don’t care about your babies. Well done they didn’t die and neither did you. Full points. That’s where it should end.

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  35. Holly

    A birth with a baby still alive the next day would have done me. I have to leave the room when people start comparing birth stories. They have no idea.

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    • Bec

      Oh Holly, I’m sorry. I think you summed up the point here perfectly

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    • erin23

      oh holly, i just burst into tears reading that. I am so very sorry for your loss xxx

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      • Eva

        Holly I am truly sorry. This is what we all fear most. Wish I could give you a hug, will light a candle for your little one tonight.

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  36. Lauren

    Mia! your so spot on! I love reading your articles every sunday. I’m so tired of people reading ridiculous things on the internet that some pretentious hippy made up. I wish people would love and respect doctors more.

    I agree with Staceyjwsolar. BEST POST EVER.

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  37. Alex

    I write this as someone who has realised that when I have high expectations I get disappointed very easily and then I feel like crap. Thus, I try and to have realistic expectations for anything that I’m looking forward to because then I nearly always have a better time/experience than I expected.

    In relation to this article: I haven’t had kids yet. And I am by NO means expecting that giving birth (let alone being a parent for the rest of my life) will be easy or pain-free. In fact, the thought of childbirth itself fills me with fear and dread.

    But planning to NOT have a detailed birth plan will probably be the best thing for me. If I had a detailed birth plan I would probably end up being really upset and disappointed if it didn’t go how I’d hoped (ie quite likely if everyone else’s stories are anything to go by).

    At this (uneducated, pre-conception) stage I would guess that my birth plan would only go as far as hoping to have a natural birth, preferably in a hospital (so that if I need medical support, it’s there). I’d be happy to take medicine for pain relief (why not, if it’s available?) and if I need to have a cesarean or an epidural etc- so be it. I hope that my gorgeous babies to-be will be born happy and healthy little munchkins.

    As for the smug-factor phenomenon, I really hope that I don’t ever end up in that category.. because it would mean that my values had got a bit warped along the way. Giving birth will certainly be something to be proud of myself and my body for achieving but I don’t want it to be how I define myself or the source of my value..

    Also, Mia, out of interest, what IS that woman’s placenta plan?!

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    • neola

      This comment is pretty much exactly what I would have written. So far, God or fate or mother nature or whoever is laughing at my old birth plan (which consisted of: Get pregnant, eat pickles, give birth and live happily ever after). Please, just get me to step one, with a healthy, successful pregnancy and I’ll be so grateful I’ll happily forgo the add-ons: the waterbirth, the zen-like painkiller-free experience to brag about on facebook…and even the pickles, if need be.

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  38. Mellow lellow

    I took the advice of a professor with 30 years experience delivering babies that I wouldn’t be able to deliver naturally because of my pelvis and had 3 kids by c-section without even a Braxton hicks contraction – I could have got them at the shop for the amount of natural child birth I experienced. But they arrived safely and are awesome kids! As long as its safe do what makes u happy and don’t judge others…

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  39. Lottie

    To avoid the rampant, and ill-informed, judgement, I stopped talking about my births ages ago. Not even people who ask me get the story. It usually becomes apparent very quickly that they just want to talk about their story anyway, they don’t really want to know mine at all. This is fine by me.
    I am always intrigued to hear the different experiences and how previous expectation can affect that experience.

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    • Anne-Marie

      Hah, when they get to high school, no one gives a hoot. Keeping them safe, secure, off drugs, away from the evils of the internet, and teaching them how to survive in this world, makes the ‘birth story’ spectacularly irrelevant. Who gives a rats?

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  40. Staceyjwsolar

    BEST. POST. EVER

    Im not even kidding, I love it so much. It is dead on!

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  41. Guest

    ‘… men generally try to leave the room when the subject comes up. It’s just not that interesting to them.’

    I once heard a British comedian describe watching his wife give birth as like watching his favourite pub burn down. No wonder they’re not interested in discussing it..

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  42. Ella

    I love hearing about birth stories (not plans…). They’re often so full of drama! Mia, my favourite parts of your book were the ‘birth’ chapters (particularly the bits about the midwife Amy. Hilarious!). In fact, usually I’d rather hear about people’s births than their actual children. How much little Johny sleeps, poops, cries etc is much less interesting than a good story about how he was delivered….

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  43. Hol

    Mia, you failed to discuss one of the most important issues that often lead to women planning their births; psychological scarring.
    I think first and foremost the health of the unborn baby is paramount, second to that, the health of the mother, and thirdly, the experience the woman and child go through.
    It plays a huge role psychologically, take for instance some of the girls in my birth group have had horrendous deliveries, some have been left scarred and fear going back again, some have babies who bear the scars.
    Now because they may now have an intricate birth plan, I don’t believe for one second that because they may plan and educate themselves for future experiences that they’re “control freaks” or as you call them “birthzillas”.

    Often it’s about healing. And unless you’ve had a traumatic birth, you may not understand why these women do what they do.
    Of course they care about their unborn children, but they also feel they need to heal themselves, if you can plan for how you may want things to go, and educate yourself about interventions and the risks involved in certain procedures etc, what is the problem? Why the label?
    You can have both a healthy baby and a great birthing experience.

    Insinuating that women who have birth plans often care more about the birth than the baby is extreme. And very few and far between, I can’t see many women with birth plans refusing treatment if the life of their unborn baby is in jeopardy.
    Considering it is one of the most arduous, mentally & physcially challenging “things” a women can go through, I think everyone has a right to have some control over what happens to their bodies and their babies when going through said process, as long it is a responsible choice, I don’t see it as negative.
    Fair enough if there is a health reason which prevents the mother from mapping out the birth experience that she may want for herself and her unborn baby, I don’t think any woman in their right mind would overturn someones orders in order to gain something for themselves, that’s selfish.

    But if you have a healthy pregnancy, and expect to have a straight forward labour, I don’t see why they should be labelled for it?
    You generally go into labour and childbirth with a positive attitude, with or without a birth plan, that is the beauty of choice.

    I’ve long been a follower of Mamamia, and Mia in general, but this post is a real downer for me, opinion piece or not, some things and some “labels” are better left unsaid.

    Birth is just another one of those subjects, like breastfeeding and vaccinatiing, that is sensitive. This opens people up to being judged for thier “choices”.

    I think when a woman goes through a very difficult birth and then plans for the next because they’re “scarred” it becomes a matter of psychology and I think labelling women who really do care about how they give birth is unhelpful.
    Birth can be dangerous, scary, amazing, beautiful & really, truly does have lasting effects.
    To almost make fun of those who are passionate is saddening.

    Sure, there are some women who really are smug about their experiences, and I really don’t think that is cool, but you can be proud of what you achieve.

    Sometimes it is more than just control, sometimes it is about healing.

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    • Anonymous

      I should clarify that the health of both mother and child are both equally important, but to so many women, that primal need to protect their babies, often comes before their own. Even when birthing their child.
      :)

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    • The Original Steph

      There is nothing so scarring as holding your dead baby.
      You never really heal from that. Yet most of us who endured it, go back again.

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      • Hol

        :(
        I can’t even begin to imagine.

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    • Yoni

      Psychological scarring can be healed. A dead baby cannot.

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      • Hol

        I don’t believe I ever said anything about that Yoni, but while we are there I should add that I think as long as there are responsible choices made regarding birth plans, there is not problem.
        Cheers!

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    • Emkay

      Using and trying to control the birth of a second child to heal yourself of the ‘scarring’ of the first is still incredibly selfish. Each child is an individual and the second should not suffer for the first. You say that must women wouldn’t hesitate to have an intervention if it was for the safety of the child – yet they say they don’t TRUST doctors and that doctors LIE to get the c section etc. they are more likely to have a life saving intervention and then bitch and whine about how it wasn’t necessary and that they were forced into it after the fact. They will NEVER admit that their intervention was necessary.

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      • Hol

        Obviously you didn’t read my comment correctly Emkay.
        Birth is psychological, as well as being a huge mental obstacle and and extremely emotional time in a womans life.
        A woman, is in her rights to have preference where her birth is concerned, especially when those preferences have no effect at all on the baby, or even the opposite, they’re ridiculously beneficial to the baby.
        Delayed cord-clamping. Skin-to-skin.
        Breastfeeding established soon after birth.
        Natural 3rd stage labour.
        All of these are perfect examples of things that CAN be achieved without any ill-effect on the baby.
        How is that selfish?
        Not wanting any pain relief?
        How is that selfish?
        Wanting to birth in water or labour in the shower?
        Oh that’s selfish too.
        *rolls eyes*
        Please. Judging by your comments you are a healthcare professional who likes to bury his/her head in the sand and put all of her trust in the “professionals”.
        I’m sorry, but that is completely naive.
        Women who have preferences where their births are concerned are not selfish.
        The fact is, OB’s have been know to induce woman unnecessarily, and use scare tactics to do so, because, well it suits their busy schedule or it is easier. Or it even gets these women OUT of the system faster, because ti is overloaded.
        I’m a part of an amazing community of mothers, over 4000, who have give or take a few, have had unnecessary interventions forced upon them by these healthcare professionals who we’re suppose to trust.

        I was lucky enough to have AMAZING midwives during my labours/births with my kids, and you know what? The only bad experiences I had during all three were to do with OB’s.
        One dismissed my high blood pressure as a spike because we was running 2 hours behind schedule, I ended up with preeclampsia not even two days later AND when my baby was born prematurely, couldn’t even look me in the eye when I explained to him that I had what could have turned into a deadly condition if left untreated.
        Not only that, I had an OB come and break my water, HOOK my sons head with the instrument used to do so and now he has a nasty scar on his forehead.
        This same OB, onyl a female this time, dropped my canula TWICE onto an unsanitary bed before inserting it into my hand.
        Yep, way to go.
        No wonder some women feel they can’t trust them.

        The fact of the matter is birth is more than just “having a healthy baby” because you can have BOTH a healthy child and a positive birth experience.
        Educating yourself and having a choice, where certain areas are concerned can help women move past traumatic experiences, how that is selfish is beyond me.

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  44. Anonymous

    I had a birth plan…but going into labour 4 weeks early, I just went with what felt right at the time. IMO its ok to have a plan but it has to be totally flexible and you should have an ob you trust so everyone is ok.
    And all this talk of hospital staff pushing women to not do what they want… what about the other way…. my friend had a terrible hospital birth because the staff WOULDN”T call the ob, DIDN”T have an emergency c section and she has now been left massively physically scarred (and mentally too) the ob when he arrived was horrifed at what she has going through

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  45. oddsocks

    I am so dissapointed by this article and many of the other articles that have been previously dealt with the topic of childbirth. Mia, for a person who claims to be a feminist you really shock me with your judgement and ignorance regarding birthing women. Personally I believe it is incredibly important to be well educated, informed and actively involved in all medical decisions involving myself and my children.
    A birth plan is actually about researching your options and specifying your preferences. It is about preparing yourself for what is likely to be one of the most physically and emotionally challenging experiences of your life.
    Mia and MM team, how about you start vocalising the need for better ante/post natal care in Australia, for womens rights and choices – this whole attack on ‘birthzillas’ is ugly and not helpful for anyone.

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    • Kerr

      I totally agree. The judgement here is so stark. Is it just me or did there used to be more interaction too? It feels like these days they put up an obviously provocative article then just retreat. It sounds stupid, but this website used to be a place to visit during the day and read some cool stories and interact with some people. These days I can often come away disappointed and sometimes angry. I know some people will just say to get off and stay off (and get a life!), but I’ve been here for quite a while and I feel a bit sad at the change.

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      • jamilarizvi

        Hi Kerr,

        Thanks for your post. Please know we are here and reading all the comments. I’ve been a little hesitant myself about interacting on this one because I’m not a mum – hard to have a solid basis for an opinion.

        MM is a place for discussion and debate and of course there are some topics that lend themselves to slightly more heated debate than others – this post, clearly being one!

        Mia is giving her observation and her opinions. She’s definitely got people talking today and where people have been following the rules and politely disagreeing or agreeing – I for one, have found it fascinating. I think that’s a good thing.

        We posted about shoes today too…. And gymnastics videos, so if you’re after something a tad lighter, it is there!

        And don’t get off and stay off! Keep coming and contributing, we love having you.

        Jamila x

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      • Sez

        I feel exactly the same. I’ve told myself I’m done, but it feels sad to leave Mamamia because I really used to enjoy it. So I try it again, but just feel disappointed each time..

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      • Anon

        I agree. This use to be a positive, funny site, but now it feels like it’s being deliberately divisive. Might have to look for a more supportive parenting site after this visit. :-(

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    • Traibe

      I’m with you oddsocks. Normally really love this site due to the range of articles and open discussions but lately the judgemental tone of childbirth articles is really off-putting.

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    • Toto

      Oddsocks – why do we need MORE choices for women who want to give birth? What’s wrong with a hospital or birth centre?
      Why is there this idea that there are people running around trying to hurt you in a hospital? Honestly, it’s nuts. Women don’t need any more choices for how to give birth.

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      • oddsocks

        There are soooo many parts of the medical care you recieve during pregnancy/birth and postnatal where there are choices to be made.
        Firstly, regarding your point about hospital or a birth centre… well this is a choice only available to the lucky few who have that option. There are not many birth centres in Australia (compared to hospital wards) and the birth centres can only take a certain number. At my local birth centre you have to ring basically the day you find out you are pregnant to get a spot on their list.
        There are other choices though that many of us don’t know about or aren’t offered….
        e.g. – being cared for consistenly by the one midwife/midwife team
        - having internals during labour performed by one care giver (not 10 different ones as was my first birth experience)
        - length of stay in hospital post birth and home based postnatal care
        - pain relief options (drugs, birthing aides such as stools, baths, showers etc)
        - being cut vs tearing
        The list goes on and on……. then of course there are options when things don’t go according to plan…. inducements and the method used, the stage at which a ceasarian is performed….
        I don’t think that there are “people running around trying to hurt you in a hospital”. I am however aware of how understaffed and over worked many medical professionals are. I am also very aware of the high number of iatrogenic injuries in Australia. In most cases there is no single “right” way to do something, women deserve to know what options there are and be actively involved in decisions relating to their care and that of their baby.

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  46. Sah

    I’ve never met anyone in person who’s played the ‘my birth was better than yours game’ in all seriousness – only anonymously on websites, surprise surprise.

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    • The Original Steph

      Oh, I have. And it feels terrible.

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    • Ping!

      Sah – you haven’t noticed the Birth Olympics mothers? You can read it all over the comments here.

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      • Jo

        But are they doing it in response to their choices being ridiculed and dismissed, out of defense and a desire to explain how it can go? Are the mothers who went the hospital/intervention/section route feeling defensive and pushing their buttons? Do these ‘Olympic Mothers’ need to try and explain why their choices are valid? Maybe not, but I’m certainly seeing the need here with this post, and maybe the same thing happens elsewhere and is read wrong.

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  47. Tripitaka

    In my experience the vast majority of women make sensible, thoughtful, well-reasoned decisions about birth and parenting in general. Most of us are not driven by competitiveness or fulfilling our own needs as opposed to our babies’ needs. I would love to see some more articles here about how bloody AWESOME most women are.

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  48. MotherClucker

    International comparisons show Australia to have among the highest rates for obstetric intervention. Fact.

    The high rates of Caesareans are usually attributed to them being performed too often for non-medical reasons. Fact.

    Mia, as a strong, female voice in our beautiful country, I am saddened at your choice to target and ridicule, a percieved group of women in your eyes, over a birthplan of her placenta.

    Yes, birth doesn’t usually go as planned, sometimes it does. I find it encouraging that some women are trying to take positve control over something that has become so highly medicalized in our society, and bring it back to being natural and intervention free.

    Yes, there always are medical exceptions, but wouldn’t the idea of women approaching the idea of giving birth with stories of empowerment and awe instead of fear and intervention be a gift we give our daughters and grandaughters a better option?

    I haven’t buried or had placenta made into capsules, nor have I home-birthed, water-birthed or hypno-birthed.

    I have four happy and healthy children, the latter three by chance, I was fortunate enough to be given the choice of having a birth plan and a dedicated midwife who restored my belief in my body to have 3 beautiful, intervention free births in the public system. Before her, I was educated to know that I did indeed have a choice regarding birthing my placenta.

    Yes, everything in birth is in the moment, just wanting to finally birth your baby after all of that work, but having a midwife (with doctors available if intervention needed) assisting, changed my views on the process of childbirth which I passed on to my step-daughter, who recently had a drug-free water birth with the same midwife, public system. My step-daughter, who is 20yrs old, is now changing views amongst her friends regarding the traditional views of childbirth.

    Mia, for you to divide birthing women into two apparent “groups”, the crazy hippy home birthers and the “normal” get my baby out ASAP’s shows a huge ignorance on your part and a total mis-use of the wonderful platform you have to empower and educate women.

    1st baby- Doctor assisted-pethidene & stitches 8 pound
    2nd baby- Midwife-2 weeks overdue, no drugs 10 pound
    3rd baby- Midwife & doctor monitored drip- induced due to pre-eclampsia, no drugs 10 pound
    4th baby- Midwife- on time, no drugs 11 pound.

    And yes, my vagina is fine :)

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    • Whatthe?

      ‘positive’ ‘control’ ‘empowering’ ‘natural’ ‘awe’ ‘choice’ – wow you’ve covered just about every birthzilla buzz word. Applause!

      And the trophy is on its way for your intervention-free births.

      Oh – and Please provide evidence from medical journals to back up your caesareans-are-wicked ‘facts’.

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      • MotherClucker

        It’s not like the information is hiding? Research it.

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      • anon

        Don’t you think as women we deserve that eg positive, in control, empowering and choice rather than the opposite? Why would anyone want one of lifes most important events to be negative, out of control, disempowered and no choice… It’s like you are saying what gives you the right and how dare you celebrate this?
        If this was a male issue they’d be supporting each others decisions and definitely not attacking each other…more than sad and possibly says something about where we are as women in 2012.

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  49. yelenab

    You are brilliant Mia. Were you listening to my conversation with my Mum and best friend yesterday afternoon?! Put me down as another one with two WONDERFUL ‘birth experiences’ complete with OB, hospital, epidurals, one induction and one caesar and two stunning, healthy daughters out if it!

    How lucky are we to live in a country where it’s so easy to access all of this?

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  50. Sparky

    ‘Dude, where’s my birthplan?’

    Gave birth at 28 weeks. Emergency Caesarean. Under general anaesthetic. We both lived (it was thought at different stages that one or neither of us would) and, eventually, thrived.

    My heart cries a little every time I hear someone go on about their successful/failed birth plan and what an impact it had. Did you have a successful delivery? Healthy bub? Mission accomplished. Now, let it go.

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    • The Original Steph

      Sparky, I wrote below that I think that Preemie mums are the strongest and bravest out there. PTSD and issues from birth trauma can be managed with counselling and medication over time. But there is no antidote for a birth gone wrong, resulting in death or long term sequalae.
      Love, a stilbirth mum x

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      • Sam

        Thanks Steph. My premmie son (1200g) was born two months after my waters broke at 24 weeks.
        When the waters broke (flooded) they wanted to do an internal exam to feel my cervix. I refused. I said there was no way any grubby mitts were getting in there and risk infection.
        I stayed in hospital for 8 weeks before he was delivered by emergency c-section because he was squashing his cord (no fluid makes for a tight space).
        He battled in the NICU for a few months after that, and we nearly lost him too many times to count in the early years, but I do pat myself on the back for refusing that exam. I asked teh right question “What difference will checking my cervix make?” They told me it would let them know when he was likely to deliver. It was about preparing THEM, not what was best for him. This was a MAJOR international teaching hospital in the USA, with multitude of aneths and neonatologists etc right there, all the time, no they didn’t need to know. It just would have made things easier for them. I need to shut up. My kiddo is 9 years old now, and I haven;t thought about this stuff for years. You’re right about the while PTSD thing – it surfaces when you least expect it!
        And Steph – I am so sorry that your little one didn’t make it. Neither of mine “should” be here today. I am blessed.

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        • Ana

          I lost mine at 17 weeks – I believe due to the internal where the doctor admitted she didn’t know what she was looking for

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      • Sparky

        Thanks for your heartfelt reply. Your comments are spot on. Hugs to you. x

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    • freetoclaire

      Agreed.
      My first was born at 29 weeks. They wouldn’t admit me straight away, as it was “too early for it to be labour”, and by the time I was admitted I was 8cm dilated and gave birth naturally to a baby who might not be breathing (theyre supposed to give the drugs to open their lungs as early as possible…). He was whisked away, I was stitched up, and nothing had gone to “plan”, and lord knows I did my research and had my preferences. But, I now have a healthy 7 year old son. We both survived, we are both happy and healthy and thats all that matters.
      Ive had three labours, and they couldnt have been more different, none of them have gone according to a plan. And none of them are any more “empowering” or anything like that than the others. It strikes me as people trying to justify the decisions they made before or during birth, or trying to convince themselves rather than others, that their birth was everything they wanted it to be. Everybody needs to just take a deep breath and let it go.

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