by MIA FREEDMAN
“Did you have a plan for your placenta?” the woman asked me earnestly. She was pregnant. I was confused.
We’d only just met at a BBQ and as she repeated her question, I cocked my head quizically like a Labradoodle trying to understand a complex sentence. I’d never heard the words ‘plan’ and ‘placenta’ together and I was having trouble reconciling them.
“Huh? You mean did I, like, cook it or bury it in the garden?” She shook her head. “No, I mean when you gave birth did you have a plan for how your placenta would be delivered?”
Blink. “Um, out of my vagina? Does that count as a plan?”
More head shaking. The woman was growing impatient because she had a plan and she wanted to tell me about it. Her three page birth plan had “Delivering The Placenta” as its own subhead with half a dozen bullet points underneath.
I know this because she showed it to me on her phone while I tried not to stab myself with a sausage.
My personal view of birth plans is that they’re most useful when you set them on fire and use them to toast marshmallows. But there are some women who live for them: I call them Birthzillas because just like a Bridezilla focusses on the wedding not the marriage, The Birthzilla appears more interested in having a birth experience than a baby.
This term won’t win me any friends among those who believe passionately in a particular type of birth. Homebirth, freebirth, waterbirth, hypnotic birth, active birth, calm birth, silent birth……there’s a first-world menu of options for anyone who wishes to select from it, both inside and outside the hospital system.
Birthzillas usually speak about ‘empowerment’ and ‘control’ and use a lot of personal pronouns. Their own experience is invariably at the centre of their narrative even though they will always claim (and probably believe) that they’re acting selflessly for the good of their baby. This baffles me. It’s a bit like going to Paris and obsessing about the in-flight entertainment instead of, you know, PARIS.
Some women define themselves by the type of birth they had, even though their children are now in primary school. I antagonised this subculture a few years ago when I spoke out about freebirth (the practice of giving birth at home without any medical support not even a midwife) and called it reckless.
Many “birth advocates” came after me with pitchforks and autosignatures like:
“Anne-Marie, mother of Wyllow (happily freebirthed in 2002) and Jaydyn (proudly waterbirthed at home in 2004).”
It’s birth as identity and it’s odd.
The Birthzilla is such a first world creation. For millions of women, their birth plan is simply: “please let my baby and I survive”. However, among privileged women with access to safe and affordable care, I’ve noticed a growing fixation on the birth process.
For many, it’s about control. One of the most confronting things about pregnancy and birth is the unpredictability of it and women often believe they can regain control by planning. Babies, however, like to raise their middle finger at your plans. They come early, they come late, they get stuck, they get suddenly distressed or tired or tangled. I know you’ve made three playlists for the different stages of your labour but your baby doesn’t care.
In her memoir, Bossypants, the brilliant Tina Fey describes the birth of her first child like this: “Vaginal delivery, epidural, didn’t poop on the table”. Those three pertinent facts sum it up, pre-emptively answering the most common questions other women ask.
Men? They couldn’t care less. Never in your life will you hear a man urge a woman, “Please! Tell me more about the way you gave birth!”. Not even if she’s his wife.
While most women need little encouragement to launch into a detailed account of her birth from conception to the first time she has sex afterwards, men generally try to leave the room when the subject comes up. It’s just not that interesting to them. I don’t mean the part where they saw their baby for the first time. That’s mind-blowing. But the bits before that? Utterly insignificant compared to the lifetime of parenting that comes afterwards.
I recently heard a woman on the radio waxing lyrical about how her two homebirths “were the most incredible experiences of my life and I don’t know anyone who had a hospital birth and could say the same thing”. Me. I could. Three hospital births. Loved them all. And this is where I start to get tetchy.
Let me state for the record: I’m a fan of doctors. Love them. Especially obstetricians. If I could give birth in a stadium full of people in white coats with letters after their names I would do a happy jig. What? You’re a doctor of French literature? Mathematics? Oh well, come on down! The more qualifications nearby, the better.
But in the maddening world of competitive mothering, some women see their birth experience as a platform for smugness and superiority. A badge of maternal honour. The game of My Birth Was Better Than Yours is an ugly, destructive one. And hugely risky if it puts anything above the physical welfare of a baby.
So yes, I could bang on and on about my birth experiences. But I’d prefer to tell you about my kids.
UPDATE 6pm Sunday 17 June: Having read most of the comments and watch the debate unfold over the day, I just wanted to clarify four things.
1. Being a feminist does not – to me – mean agreeing with every decision made and every opinion held by everyone who happens to have a vagina. I will always be authentic and honest about my own opinions and this column is an example of that. Some seem to believe it’s my ‘duty’ to support all women regardless of their choices or behaviour. I’m afraid that’s not going to happen. I am one person with one opinion. I don’t claim to speak on behalf of anyone else. There are hundreds of contributors to Mamamia and thousands of comments that reflect a hugely diverse range of opinions which is as it should be.
2. I am not suggesting making a birth plan is reckless or even stupid. I’m not suggesting it’s a good idea to walk into your birth knowing nothing. Many commenters below have spoken about ‘birth preferences’ which I think is sensible. But becoming too fixated on the way you give birth is, in my opinion, a misplaced priority and ultimately often futile. And I’ve seen sooooo many women shocked, bewildered, disappointed and even ashamed that their birth did not go according to their plan. Being aware that it could all go to hell is an important part of preparing for the very unpredictable experience of giving birth.
3. There is a broad spectrum of Birthzilla behaviour. Some of it – making detailed plans for your placenta or compiling endless playlists for your ipod – is harmless enough. Trivial even. You want a water birth in a birth centre? Why not. More insidious are the Birthzillas who derive status and superiority from the way they give birth. They can be almost passive aggressive about it. And who says giving birth at home or without drugs is somehow ‘better’ or ‘more meaningful’ than giving birth via c-section or with an epidural or with forceps?
4. At the extreme end of the Birthzilla spectrum are those women who put their birth experience above the health and wellbeing of their baby. And yes it happens. In fact the South Australian coronor recently found that three babies who died during homebirths would have certainly survived had they been born in hospitals. You can read more about that here. In each case, their mothers knew the pregnancies were high risk and chose to give birth at home without medical support anyway. Their babies died. And for what? That is where Birthzilla behaviour can actually be a matter of life and death.






Comments
1,449 Comments so far
Why do most women and/or men, that comment on this article, feel obliged to detail their own birth experiences?
loading...
It’s human nature – its how people relate. Strange concept, huh?
loading...
It’s not a forum to speak about your birth experience but merely a discussion about the perceived competition and judgement that seems to go hand in hand with birthing.
loading...
I think that when your birth experience and preference is being directly attacked and belittled, you have the right to try and explain how it was safe, positive, worthwhile and good, not some selfish megalomaniac, infanticidal act as the writer is implying.
loading...
I had a lose birth plan when I had my 2 daughters (as I thought that was what you did) and I was lucky enough that they both turned out to be quick & drug-free births in hospital. While I would never judge any mother based on her own personal birth experience, I feel as though I cannot share my own positive story without people thinking I’m gloating. I would never intentionally be smug about my births experiences but I’m sure many woman would see it that way, especially if there’s wasn’t so rosy. It’s quite sad really that people can’t be happy for those that happen to have a good birth experience. It goes without saying that all I ever hoped for was healthy babies.
loading...
I had awful birth experiences but I can honestly say that I adore hearing about the positive ones. Restores my faith in nature
Congratulations on your happy births!
loading...
Thanks odd socks
loading...
Also, people seem to have a compulsion to tell pregnant women about their horrible experiences. Memorable for me on my first was the story about blood splashing on the wall from the failed ventouse, and the women who told me with aggressive zeal that I’d be SCREAMING FOR AN EPIDURAL. In the end I had an 8lb 12 oz baby at home without any real screaming at all, thanks. And the cord was wrapped around her neck. And she was fine. But I’ve been clearly told by several professionals that had I been in hospital, given the birth circumstances, I would have been induced and sectioned.
Sure, some would have been happier with that, but it wasn’t the course I wanted and I trusted my professional. Selfish? I just don’t see it that way.
loading...
I think that is an interesting point RCJ, that recounting your toruble-free deliveries can be perceived as gloating.
I often wonder, when these types of posts appear on MM, how skewed the feedback is towards birth complications due to the fact that those who had complications talk about it and those who didn’t feel reluctant to for fear of this very thing.
I think it would be a bit scary as a first time mother-to-be with so much written about birth and so much of it about horror stories. Uncomplicated births must outnumber complicated births by a vast number I would assume, but you wouldn’t think so on reading sites like this.
So to even things up. Four kids, no complications.
loading...
I had a birth plan, it included such gems as wanting to labour in a certain t shirt. When it came to it I ended up naked once I got out of the bath in the labour ward and couldn’t have given a toss about how I looked (thanks gas)
It also included some lovely relaxing music that was to be changed as the labour progressed. According to my husband (again I don’t clearly remember this, thanks gas) I became quite insistent that the CD wasnt to be changed because I really was too busy concentrating on getting that baby out and didn’t want to make any decisions.
I was supported through my labour by my husband who would have spoken up for me if needed. I gave birth the way I wanted which was on all fours on the bed and not on my back, I listened to my midwives and the OB because they knew exactly what they were doing, I was too caught up in labouring to be able to objectively view my situation.
I’m pretty sure my birth plan stayed in the bottom of my bag with that navy blue t-shirt I never did get to wear.
And the end result; a perfectly healthy baby girl. What I have done to raise her for the last 14 years is way more important than how I spent the 7 hours of my labour with her. And isn’t that the whole point?
loading...
Except there is a lot of evidence that the kind of birth you have shapes you. And perhaps making the birth plan, informing yourself, and considering what sort of birth you wanted made a difference to you and your confidence and trust in the process. Fear inhibits labour. What you can do to feel good about it helps you have a better, safer birth.
loading...
“Except there is a lot of evidence that the kind of birth you have shapes you.”
As someone who gave birth (4 times) over 28 years ago I can honestly say I haven’t given anything more than a passing thought to my deliveries since my youngest was probably about 5 (truth be told more likely 3!). After that I moved on to the next stage of their lives, and so on, as they grew.
Now I am approaching grandmother stage so will probably revisit the basics of the deliveries and maybe even recount them anecdotally to those closest to me. Whilst amazing and important and special experience in my life, I can honestly say the actual births shaped me in no way.
The children have, without a doubt.
The propensity of mothers, expectant and of very young kids, to be so consumed with all things birth related is understandable, but if they could take a step back and see the bigger picture they’d realise that birth (like weddings) is but a blip on the radar in the scheme of things.
Of course I acknowledge that mothers who have experienced significant trauma and/or loss are highly likely to be shaped by their experience. I, in no way, wish to cause distress or be dismissive of them.
loading...
Hi Jo, I understand what you’re saying and it does make a lot of sense. In fact I don’t think anyone would argue with the need to be prepared and have an idea of what could happen. The core point of the article was that things don’t always go according to plan and clinging to plan that has failed is more likely to stress the mother out than if she has a plan but understands things can and most likely could change. By having a set in stone birth plan the mother is going to lose her sense of control and be traumatized. Now if she is prepared to go with the flow…well then she is much more likely to be physically ok (loser muscles etc) and psychologically ok.
loading...
So now we can blame the way we were born for the type of person we become. Give it a rest Jo.
loading...
So I have read through all the comments with interest, sadness and anger. What an opportunity to discuss this issue with women of Australia.
However I don’t think it’s the birth plan issue what’s the real issue. I think it has more to do with women/mothers today feeling more judged then ever before. I think it has to do with wanting to be able to have some control of major events in our lives, due to fear perhaps and i think it’s about someone in the media using their position in a way that was unexpected.
This article has opened a massive can of worms, mainly because Mia has always spoken out about not judging other women and yet this article does exactly that with some name calling thrown in, I’m sure that wasn’t her intention. I have always been a fan of Mamamia but i wonder if Mia would write the article again the same way?
Perhaps the article could have asked questions like what is happening that we are becoming so anxious about our births ? Why do we want more control? What might be the answer to stopping the judging and competition if it occurs?
The process of birth seems hugely significant to many women for many reasons and while it’s not for others, lets not judge each other but have some level of acceptance and understanding, including those women in the media and in positions of influence.
loading...
Hi Tracey,
Some good questions. I think the need for control is a somewhat arrogant assumption that we all have that we can control our lives. In the most part, we can! And that’s great. We can control (mostly) when and if we fall pregnant, whether we marry or not, what jobs we do etc etc
But pregnancy and birth is one of the last great unknowns – the ultimate out-of-control experience. Not always and not for every woman but you NEVER know what’s going to happen.
And I think most women are utterly shocked by that. They are used to being able to control things and why should birth be any different?
I also think we have become very first-world in our narcissism. I don’t mean that in an accusatory way. We’re just all a lot more self-focussed than any generation before us!
Look at social media, selfies…..we’re all very much at the centre of our universe. So the idea of relingquishing control or accepting things might not go according to plan is a challenging and confronting one.
That’s my 2 cents.
loading...
Hi Mia,
I hope I wasn’t making an arrogant assumption that all women need to control their lives? A bit confused by that statement?
I think some women are used to controlling things, but there are also many many women who feel they have no or little control over their lives (especially birth). This is an assumption by you that women want and have control mostly maybe the women you know but not all the women i know. It probably depends on how much power you have as an individual? I don’t know I’m not an expert in control just ask my family and the chocolate shop.
Your other assumptions in your response are also interesting? “I also think we have become very first-world in our narcissism”
I think saying this generation is more self obsessed then previous generations is a huge assumption to make.
Perhaps you should consider is this your world in the media, rather then representative of most women in Australia. I work in fields where I see those that having nothing giving others what they have, where young people want to give back something to their world so I would challenge your view of people today being self obsessed but just like any generation we are a great diverse mix of people.
Your right control is a challenging issue for anyone because it’s about so many things.From the posts it is evident that it can be a challenging thing for us to look at?
So my question still stands would you write the article the same again?
loading...
I agree with your narcissism comment. Anyone who has been following the social media commentary on the recent court case with Lisa Barrett will have seen the ‘fists up’ style of comments from those who are demanding the right to alternative births. There is outrage and vitriol and people are so angry as if they have been personally attacked. I, like most people, couldn’t give a toss about the decision other women make about their births, and only hope that everyone has as good a time as possible. If you want to give birth at home or in a forest, fine. If you want the full drug experience, fine. But in a case like Ms Barrett’s, why can’t writers (like mamamia or others) say that in the instances represented in the court case, those situations might have gone too far and those particular decisions shouldn’t have been made. Why can’t someone say that? I honestly don’t get it. And I don’t get the attack on Mia about the article above. I don’t see how it can be taken so personally by people. I can see how ‘hospital birth people’ can appear a bit smug. And I do appreciate that there are some women who are traumatised by past birth experiences and I don’t mean to include them as narcissists. But those who are criticising this article for being bullying and anti-feminist because Mia dares to say that birth plans are unnecessary and that sometimes women put their own needs and wants above those of the baby’s are being hypersensitive and, I think, unfair.
loading...
There’s a huge difference between assuming you can control the outcome of the birth and wanting your wishes to be recognised, knowing you can trust your obstetrician or midwives not make any unnecessary interventions. If you think they don’t you’re naive. Hospital policy is not always baby friendly – for example, domiciliary midwives have very high stats on women who come through birth with minor or zero tearing, and v low episiotomy rates, but your average hospital still performs them routinely, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. That’s a good thing to have a choice about, I think – we make birth plans because we read up on best practice, and we’d rather not have to fight over each issue when we’re in labour.
All but a few women will take any necessary action to save their baby’s life, when necessary – having a birth plan doesn’t change that.
loading...
I agree with Mia. People are a bit too obsessed with the process and not enough with the product.
loading...
Who is? Who are you to decide the process isn’t important to both parties? Have you actually studied much about it? Talked to the women who were all but butchered so their babies would be safe after hideous births who suffered from PND and PSTD for however long? You don’t think that affected their babies too? This throwaway statement is not productive.
loading...
Jo, I am reading the first page of these comments, and almost every comment, you have replied to if they don’t agree with your sentiments about birth.
You’re free to have your opinion and express it of course, I would never say you aren’t, but are you trying to make everyone else feel inferior by commenting on how little they know and how much you know? Because that is how it is coming across to me, as a reader.
loading...
Well said Anonymous, I was going to comment on the same thing. Sorry Jo but you are coming across as very judgemental to the comments you are replying to. Of course you are entitled to your opinion – as are others!!! Please try to not rip others opinions to shreds because they are not the same as yours.
loading...
I do know people in this situation, like my own children born by emergency Caesar.
loading...
My child was born by emergency caesar while I was under GA. I felt robbed of the experience of hearing my childs first cry, among other things, as well as robbed of confidence etc.
However, PNPTSD doesn’t have to be a lifelong sentence. Like all other things there is much help available and the literature actually indicates that women who suffer PNPTSD benefit the most for simply having their trauma acknowledged.
For at least some part, dealing with (not just covering up) the problem is actually part of achieving a new level of emotional integrity and intelligence which is necessary to the process of nurturing our children. Of course it would be great to avoid it, but actually that’s not the most important thing that can be done. This new level in emotional maturity is equally important to our children. Our gift to them is not that we avoid trauma, but that we handle it properly and are able to teach them to do the same.
Now, as for the effect of birth on the child. When I first met my daughter, some hours after she was born, she was screaming for me. Just me. And telling the nurses what for – there was no way that she could be comforted by them! You could suggest that that was the result of the trauma of being ripped out of the unconscious body of her mother and blasted by bright lights, and sent off for a trip in an isolette. Or, you might see it as the combination of the genes of two strong willed parents who know what they want and scream (figuratively) until it happens. Our birth shapes us in such a small way. We are imprinted with our personality before birth and it is shaped and reshaped for the rest of our lives according to how we are nurtured and how we allow it to impact us.
loading...
Jo,
Your comments are really grating and never ending.
We get the point!
loading...
This article makes me sad. Instead of highlighting that woman should have educated birth preferences you have highlighted a small percentage of ‘birthzillas’. Like the ‘Time’ cover that made breast feeding mothers look like weirdos your article implies you are nutter if you make a birth plan.
loading...
No, not a nutter if you make a birth plan. Just perhaps a little naive if you make a really really detailed one and focus on it at the expense of what comes afterwards.
loading...
Hi Mia,
This is another big assumption from you. Women who make birth really detailed birth plans are naive. There are so many reasons some women may make detailed birth plans and mostly it’s not because they are naive. Had you considered it may be because they like to be prepared (that’s just who they are), they may be fearful, past bad experience, they don’t trust anyone due to trauma etc etc etc. Happy to have a coffee and discuss this any time.
loading...
Unfortunately that’s not how the article came across Mia … Your article was very judgmental and bitchy, while you pretend to portray that women shouldn’t judge each other.
I’m guessing you were expecting at least some backlash though and in fact, I suspect that is your intention.
I’m all for you having your opinion, that’s fine, it just that it’s not helpful for pregnant women to read stuff like this when many professionals assist women to approach birth in a way they are comfortable with – whether that’s with or without drugs, surgery or birth plans involved.
Planning is actually an essential and very helpful part of any upcoming event in a persons life – however, none of us are really stupid enough to believe that we are guaranteed a perfect outcome 100% of the time, so please think a bit more highly of your readers.
Wouldn’t it be nicer to just humour your “friend” and let her feel joyful and excited about her labour and placenta delivery (she’s probably freaking out on the inside) than you rolling your eyes and pretending to “stab yourself with a sausage?”
loading...
Mia, how many women do you actually know who had a ‘really really detailed one’ and focused on it at the expense of what came afterwards?
How did/do you know they’re not focused on what comes afterwards? What did they do: Not have the nursery ready? Forget to have nappies on hand? Forget to consider a name for the child? Forgot to have an appropriate car seat/restraint installed in time for the trip home? What?
What was it that demonstrated to you that they were sacrificing any amount of focus on what comes after the birth? What? Was some child neglected because the naive-it’s-all-about-me-and-my-birth-plan-mother totally lost interest once her magnificently planned birth was over? What, for the love of God?
loading...
Hi Poppy, you’re right. That would be a tricky thing to measure. Which is why my column was about an anecdotal phenomenon that I’ve noticed over the past few years – the emphasis on the mother’s birth experience and the obsession/expectation SOME have that it be all about them, sometimes (obv not always) at the expense of their baby.
It’s a bit like The Emperor’s New Clothes. I’m simply pointing something out and questioning why it is so.
And wondering out loud whether ibis a positive shift or not.
loading...
And who actually does that? I think anyone who makes a plan is perfectly aware of what may change. It’s still no reason not to state your preferences and consider the birth ahead.
Don’t you think the women who ramble into hospital saying ‘ignorance is bliss’ and then run a gamut of interventions largely due to knowing nothing about the birth process might be irresponsible too? I think they must be, because I see women talking about their regrets and lack of knowledge and the pain those births have left them with all the time. Often they’re the ones writing birth plans and planning home births to try and protect themselves and their babies from the traumatic experiences they had as first time mothers. The way you dismiss those mothers here is pretty cold and unpleasant. And also makes me wonder exactly how many women you talked to at barbeques to be able to generalise so confidently.
loading...
I think you took the article the wrong way. It was about birthzillas, not women who have a truly educated preference for how things should go when there are no complications. You should not take that as all women with birth preferences are weirdos, just the ones she is talking about.
loading...
What is a ‘birthzilla’ then, Guest? To me this is one of the most unfeminist and demeaning terms imaginable. I suppose we should be bandying around some breastfeeding nazi/breastapo accusations as well just to round it off. This article is pretty clear in its condemnation of women who dare to try and safeguard a positive birth experience for themselves and makes them out to be women who selfishly endanger their babies – without any analysis of the reasons for the choices they’re making – or the research and stats that back up those choices.
loading...
Oh Boo Hoo. Who cares weather it’s feminist or not. It’s comments like that that make many women actually want to go back to the 1950′s and have dinner on the table when the husband walks in the door.
loading...
Why invent another name to judge women by?
loading...
Why invent another name to judge women by?
loading...
Mia was this really just an exercise in pushing traffic to your site through poorly researched opinion pieces? it’s not hard to be controversial is it?
loading...
I had to have a little laugh over the comment from the ‘student Ob’ who just adored this article so so very much that she plans to put Mia’s thoughts (aka the whole article) on Birthzilla’s and birth plans up in her waiting room when she starts practicing?!
Wow…what a promising young medical expert
loading...
Also a medical student and I wouldn’t do anything of the sort. Very supportive of birth choices. it’s incredibly offensive how everyone here rails against the generalising of ‘birthzillas’ but is all too happy to generalise and emigrate the medical profession as obnoxious evil “experts” or mutilating ob’s just begging to force intervention on someone do they can go to a nice dinner. It just IS NOT A THING. And for those few that DO act inapropriately there are legal and regulatory measures to punish them, which no one ever seems to take advantage of – preferable to whine nastily about it on the Internet and let them continue their dangerous practices on other women I suppose.
loading...
It’s all well & good to have a ‘simple & straightforward’ birthplan full of ‘water & breathing & visualisations’ but unfortunately your body chooses how you give birth. Glad I didn’t have a strict plan as I was in labour for 3 horrific days. The epidural was my saviour. Unfortunately we have no control over the birth’s we give.. It’s all up to our body & you know what.it freaking hurts!!!!!
loading...
Well, no. Yours did. Plenty of women’s do. Mine didn’t so very much, I know lots of other’s whose didn’t – you can see lots of ‘em on youtube if you don’t believe me.
However, it’s always sad to hear stories like yours, and there is no question that there is a time and place for epidurals and thank god for them.
It’s not always the best choice though.
loading...
Jo….why are you fighting with everyone? Don’t you think u should take a breath and calm down? No one is out to get you or ridicule you or however you gave birth. So perhaps u should lay off other peoples opinions and experiences and not jump to such rapid conclusions that you and what u stand for are being attacked. It’s just a discussion not a fight ok?
loading...
That is terribly mean to say that Suzzie’s story is sad Jo…it was an important and precious moment in her life which is of no importance to you let alone to say its sad. Once again you are bullying people because it’s not your opinion. Respect others.
loading...
Jo, are you trying to say that giving birth doesn’t hurt much? You’re insane.
loading...
Mia, honestly, I read this and I wept.
You’ve hit the lowest of lows here. I know you like to write about contentious issues but in this piece, you’ve issued a stereotypical, generalised and untrue insult to women across the world.
This is really below the belt Mia – it’s ignorant, sensationalist and clearly indicative of your personal vendetta that you seem to hold against a few home birthing women. But what hurts the most is the irresponsible abuse of your position as a public figure.
On one hand you claim this is “just your opinion” but you seem unaware that your ‘opinion’ enables the ‘opinion’ of thousands of others. Take one look at the literally hundreds of others here, cheering on your misogyny and rallying behind you while you tear women to shreds and drive that wedge between us all thoroughly home.
No you don’t have to share the views of other women just because you have a vagina. The beauty of humanity can be our myriad of differences. But I implore you – please stop perpetuating untrue stereotypes and hatred of women. There’s enough of that in the world without you adding to it, too.
loading...
“But I implore you – please stop perpetuating untrue stereotypes and hatred of women.”
Woah. Lady. Have you got your lines crossed!
loading...
Heartbroken,
Could that possibly be an over-reaction? I’m sorry you cried when you read my column. It’s certainly not the reaction I was shooting for.
I certainly do not perpetuate hatred of any kind. I reject that accusation outright. But I do like to put a highlighter pen through bigger picture trends when I notice them. And this obsession with birth experiences and the way some mothers believe the way they gave birth makes them somehow superior or the benefactor of a ‘better’ birth is not helpful to women.
And that’s what I’m drawing attention to. Oh, and also those -thankfully very few – women who put their desire for a particular birth experience above the safety of their baby. Such as the three high risk women in South Australia who chose to give birth at home despite the risks. Their babies died.
So while I did want to poke a bit of fun at ALL OF US who thought we could plan our births (hell, I packed a particular frock to wear the first time – didn’t make it out of the bag obviously), there is a more serious aspect to this focus on birth experiences.
loading...
And yet you’re applying the same criteria to three women who stayed away from hospital and risked their babies’ lives – and lost their babies – to women who want to make provision for their own psychological and physical well being during labour, and denouncing their selfishness on exactly the same level. You’re using this rather extreme and unusual story to apply to everyone who doesn’t kowtow to the medicalisation of birth.
I don’t think these two things are in the same category, or are really comparable. And I’m surprised that this is your response to those women’s actions, rather than perhaps to ask what it is about the current system and provision of maternity care that drove them out of the hospital and to take this risk?
loading...
Mia, I’ll thank you to please not dismiss my feelings (or anyone’s for that matter) as “an over-reaction.” You cannot write such a deliberately provocative piece and expect people to respond benignly.
YOU can claim to not be intending to perpetuate hatred of any kind, but I feel it is irresponsible of you to assume that, as a popular writer, coining the term “Birthzilla” is going to simply stop with you. Look at the hundreds of comments raving about how “spot on” and “true” your article is. Can you still say that you are not perpetuating misogyny?
I believe that if you put as much thought into writing something compassionate, informative and helpful to society as you do into writing something purely for hit count, you’d be a much better writer.
loading...
Hatred of women? As a feminist, I welcome it when someone calls out women on illogical and dangerous assumptions and practices, and chastises people for putting their “feelings” and “opinions” over cold hard facts. The fact of the matter is, this “childbirth culture” puts mothers and babies at risk and flies in the face of science, reason, and medicine (which we women have worked so hard to become influential in). It makes absolutely no rational or moral sense to not avail ourselves of the highest quality and safest care possible for ourselves and our children. Remember ladies, Nature is trying to kill you. This back to nature crap surrounding childbirth is so dangerous because it appeals to totally irrational fears and feelings, and blurs perspective on what really counts: getting through it all alive and healthy. So boo-freakin-hoo your eyes out; maybe you’re upset because this struck a chord, making you realize that you’ve made stupid choices based on stupid philosophies and misinformation. Doesn’t mean you’re a stupid person; just means you need to own up to it, suck it up, admit you’re wrong, and do better from now on. I say this as a reformed home birther myself. What a stupid thing I did, based purely on feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings and manipulations of the “birth community.” Wake up gals. This is tough love– not misogyny.
loading...
“Remember ladies, nature is trying to kill you.”
Well Marlo if you’re calling yourself a feminist, then I shudder to put myself in the same category.
loading...
Er right. Nature is not trying to kill us, and your strange guys and dolls idiom as well as your actual ignorance of so called ‘cold hard facts’ makes me brain weep.
In fact the scientific literature of ‘cold hard facts’ shows that a good labour improves good birthing outcomes – so yes the atmosphere, the education level of the mother, respect shown towards the mother by health workers, birth plans and minimal medical intervention actually DO contribute to a healthier baby. However this ‘healthy baby’ everyone is harping on about does not (hopefully) exist independently outside of the mother-infant dyad. A stressful, traumatic labour makes a mother even more vulnerable to difficulties with breastfeeding and birth recovery.
It was not so long ago that women were put in a twilight sleep, the baby sucked out by a vacuum, given anti-lactation shots and told that picking up her baby spoiled her/him. Babies were whisked away and only given to the mothers on scheduled feeds which caused incredible feeding problems and in fact sometimes death which Mia might be interested to know used to be just called ‘hospital syndrome’. Obstetrics is built on incredibly patriarchal foundations that have been harmful to women and babies which is why so many hospital/ birth protocols have changed (such as rooming in, birthing centres, private birthing suites, skin-to-skin etc etc) – these things haven’t changed just because women are irrational, unscientific creatures whose ‘feeeeellliings’ were hurt, but because such research has showed that such conditions do not create healthy babies (or healthy mothers).
This is a great article to read: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=419301
So actually it is not ‘tough love’ – it is misogyny – so boo-freaking-hoo to you.
loading...
Go Kate!!!!
loading...
I can’t help but think that this story was written to get hits…
loading...
Actually, it was written for my newspaper column. No hits there. Just something I feel passionately about.
Because ultimately, women who are hardcore about their birth experiences do other women no favours when they use it as a way to derive status.
loading...
Absolutely! A lot of the women, like the ones you are talking about in your article, give other women bad advice and an unrealistic view of the birthing process which can lead to PPD/PPA.
loading...
Woah. You’re blaming the women who have good births who tell their stories rather than the hospital system that often promotes intervention and section and lack of choice?
So if I tell someone that I didn’t need epidurals because I had births at home, and they get PND out of their hospital birth experience it’s all my fault for opening my mouth about it?
Mm.
loading...
Jo, not everything written on this site is directed at you. Get over yourself.
loading...
@Jo, yes get over yourself you sound like a twit
loading...
One of the moments of my first pregnancy that really stands out in my mind was the (quite comical) look of intense relief on my obstetrician’s face upon hearing my birth plan. What was my ‘plan’? Go in with as few expectations as I could manage, go with the flow, try (if I could) to not use too many drugs and just see how I dealt with it at the time.
Whether my plan had anything to do with my daughter arriving 4 weeks early after an 8 hour labour, I don’t know. All I know is that I was screaming for an epidural… Only my daughter had other ideas and it was too late. My son’s birth was remarkably similar. Maybe I’m ‘made’ for labour. I’m just incredibly grateful: my sister has had 2 c-sections (the first after 31 hours of labour) and my sister-in-law had the most horrific vaginal birth I’ve ever heard (in a first world country): forceps after 40 hours of intense labour, an epidural at 32 hours and a post-partum haemorrhage that *very* nearly killed her.
Thank goodness for the blessing of modern medicine: it gave me the choice to ‘go with the flow’ and know that there was help available if something went wrong (and it did: I also haemorrhaged after both children). It has also saved the lives of two nieces, a nephew, one sister and one sister-in-law. I couldn’t care less how the placenta of any of the 5 children the 3 of us have given birth to was delivered. I’m just so grateful that the 8 precious beings involved are all fit and healthy.
loading...
As a young Mum of 2 beautiful boys, what has been written really means a lot to me. I belive that the BABY is truly the most important thing in the process of birth. I hope that women do feel empowered when they give birth- no matter where they do so, because to me that would mean that they had a positive experiance.
– still AMAZING
Just for the record both my biths were in a hospital, first- 16hrs, epidural, AMAZING, the second- induced, bub fell out
I hope all expecting Mummies just know that their birth experiances can be positive, after all what is more brilliant that helping another person enter the world?!
loading...
My other hot tip for first time mums, other than the ‘don’t let them tell you if you do a poo’ one is ‘waterproof mascara does not survive labour, so have an eyelash tint ini advance if you want glossy lashes in your post or during birth photos’.
FWIW I have three kids with very different deliveries: one was a 37 hour EBAC (everything but a caesarean), one was a quick fall out on the floor no drugs jobbie and the other one was longer but I was off my chops on gas listening to Lady Gaga and then a water birth. None of them were really anything to write home about. In all births my caregivers were respectful of my wishes, friendly and didn’t do anything without my informed consent. Though I do wish the first lot had told me about my smudged mascara!
loading...
Mascara!!! Best.advice.ever!!!
loading...
My best advice for first time mums – purchase the softest loo paper you can buy for after the birth!
loading...
I had a birth plan w bub 1 and a birth plan w bub 2.
Both plans were the same.
Both plans consisted of just one word…..
DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
loading...
LOL My kind of birth plan! The first experience I had with birth plans was for my second delivery. The doctor in the hospital asked what my birth plan was, and because I didn’t have one, outlined a few scenarios to get an idea on what I was open to doing and what would require confirmation should things go wrong. My main thing was I wanted drugs, and to get them early enough to actually get some good out of them!
loading...
You can write as many birth plans as you like but always remember…that baby won’t be able to read it ’till he is six years old. Ultimately he makes the decisions about when and how.
loading...
Ha ha ha, a birth plan for the placenta? Seriously??
I just want to have a safe and non-problematic birth!
loading...
The third stage of labour, the delivery of the placenta, is very important and can be managed in several different ways (active with controlled cord traction and oxytocic drugs, or expelled by maternal effort). There are pros and cons to each method, and it would be wise to go into birth knowing at the very least what to expect with each and the various risks associated with each method.
loading...
Couldn’t agree more with you Mia, a healthy baby was my only requirement when I was in labour. Every decision I made was based soleyl on my beautiful angel arriving safely.
loading...
My birth plan was the same as several other women have already mentioned, baby and I safe whichever way that had to happen. That being said, I found the whole tone of this article condescending and judgemental. Of course Mia is entitled to share her opinion, but I think it could have been expressed far more respectfully to those who have a different one.
loading...
Thank you Mia and well done.
As you say – a birth plan in and of itself is not harmful or bad.Nor is a plan of any sort in any situation – but it is not a credit to YOU or your control of yoru uterus if it all go es exactly as you decided it would.
Tthe smugness and destruction that can come from some women about their birth experience is harmful and hurtful.
I am a first world woman who lives an relatively affluent lifestyle, yet once I managed to fall pregnant and carry (14 miscarriages that my husband and I know about and grieve over) I had progressively high risk pregnancies – resulting in 2 healthy robust boys now 6yrs and 3yrs. However, I was lucky to survive my second delivery and my birth plan was all about just not dying before my baby was delivered and I heard him cry.
I begged my husband not to let me die and pleaded during my precipitate labour to just make it long enough to let my baby live.
I have been bludgeoned by women who can fall and carry like a brood mare, and smugness is their uniform.I hate sharing my birth experience, preferring to rejoice in my very much alive babies and revel in motehrhood in my own style.
Be damned – I am grateful to be alive, and grateful for what I have – my health and my sons health.
Be kind women. To each other. Please……
loading...
You’re a very special lady with a very special family.
loading...
“Men, they couldn’t care less”.
“I don’t mean the part where they saw their baby for the first time. That’s mind-blowing. But the bits before that? Utterly insignificant compared to the lifetime of parenting that comes afterwards.” – Mia Freedman
Hmmm… interesting perspective
Is it one you’ve statistically verified Mia? Or do you just ‘reckon so’? You might be right. As a bloke, I’m certainly not looking for more things to care about. My wife cares enough for both of us
You may have noticed I have used two smiley faces in the first 3 lines. That’s because whilst I am going to disagree with you, I want you to know that none of this is being written with malice, sarcasm or a judgemental tone. There’s a lot of that in this thread already and it only serves to upset everybody.
Ok, back to the point. Statistically speaking, around two thirds of all women who birth their babies (by whatever means) emerge from the experience ok. For them life goes on as normally as a lifetime of parenting can be. They emerge fit and ready to focus on raising their child. In the scheme of the 9 months of morning sickness, swollen feet, mood swings, back pains, discomfort leading up to the birth and the sleeplessness of the months after the birth… the birth itself appears to be less of an issue. So for the men in these women’s lives,” yep… onwards and upwards… let’s smoke a cigar and wet the babies head!” I thought I was going to be one of these blokes.
My birth journey went like this. “Whoooh, we’re pregnant!!! I’m going to be a dad!!!” , threatened miscarriage “Holy shit life is fragile, we need to care for this baby”, wife quits work, then morning sickness, beautiful wife becoming more beautiful with child on board, set up nursery together, hospital antenatal classes together, pregnancy yoga together, braxton hicks, pre-labour at home, drive to birth centre, wife fully labouring, me as support person, 10 hours in and I’m stuffed – how must she be feeling?, 21 hours in – wife in agony and exhausted – I watch epidural go into spine, 30 hours in – ‘emergency’ C-section, 31 hours in – me with beautiful baby boy.
Now I can honestly say that sitting by myself with my boy whilst my wife was being stitched up was one of the happiest moments of my life. I also have to say that in the 15 hours leading up to that moment, the baby was not my first priority. My wife was. She was in trauma. The girl of my dreams, the woman I married was in trauma. It was also clear to me in the 5 days in hospital after she had major abdominal surgery that she was drugged and beaten up. She was not her confident self. I was looking after the baby (something I was overjoyed to do after all that she went through). 18 months later she began processing the PTSD she had suffered.
Now my question, Mia, is how could I possibly “not care less”? Even if I didn’t love my wife and care about her, the fallout from this birth was inescapable. It was there for me and my son to deal with every day. I had no idea what I was dealing with at the time or why, but I would later learn that all that went wrong need not have; that the system failed my wife… and by association, me and my boy.
Everyone got out alive, yes, but the event significantly impacted our quality of life for years. And all because we trusted and ‘went with the flow’ of our maternal health system that lets more women down in this way than virtually any other in the world.
In fact, around one third of all women who birth in Australia are negatively impacted by their birth. So yeah, the majority are ok, but ONE THIRD !!! That’s one third of kids being born being raised by mums who feel this way. One third of kids being raised by dads bewildered by what’s happening to their wives.
What upsets me is reading women attacking other women on this matter rather than supporting them. It also bothers me that you have used your considerable intellect and literary flair to fuel the war. To me it seems like Martin Luther King fighting FOR racial inequality.
If you do some research into World Health Organisation statistics around acceptable C-section percentages, you will see that in Australia we birth with amongst the highest rates of medical intervention in the world. Countries like NZ, UK and the Netherlands have far less. We have a culture where women hand over their births to the medical experts. In your article, you spoke of ‘First World Creations’. Well, our maternity system and culture most definitely are. The third world still know how to (and expect to) birth their own babies. It’s not automatically outsourced.
At this point, I want to say that I am not knocking the fact that we have wonderful obstetricians who save the lives of women and children every day. Thank goodness for their ability and dedication. But in 8 or 9 out of every 10 births they should not be required. Currently, nearly every other birth in Australia is a c-section. Why does this happen? Two reasons…
1/. The Medical Maternity system wants it to. It’s quicker, easier to schedule and is doctor-centric.
2/. Women don’t know any better. Our culture perpetuates the fears and misinformation and women readily hand their birth over to the hospital.
How do I know this? Well upon understanding that she had PTSD from her birth, my wife began investigating what went wrong and how to (if at all possible) have a better birth next time. She began educating herself, researching beyond the bubble of the Australian system. And then, we had a second child (VBAC) with a much, much better, empowered experience. She emerged strong and confident – something which helped with the hard parenting years ahead. Then we had a third child, again an empowered experience. And yes, she had a birth plan which her health carers expected, respected and happily worked to.
So, to cut a long caring story short… I am a man. I have a wife who is my best friend. I have seen her experience unnecessary hell through lack of proper birth information. I have seen her educate herself and emerge from two subsequent births empowered.There is a very big difference between the two outcomes for both mother and children. I have a daughter. I want the best for her too. I have two sisters and hundreds of female friends. I have hundreds of male friends with wives and daughters. I want the best for all of them. I want their births to be honoured and supported. I want their parenting to be confident.
I DO care. In fact I couldn’t care more.
So please Mia, stop throwing ‘Birthzilla’ bombs (Bitches are bitches. keep the birth issue separate. It’s too important). Do more research. Care about the massive minority who are being let down by our system. Use your power for good
loading...
My favourite comment.
loading...
not having a go at you, but where do you think your wife’s first birth ‘went wrong’ and how was that the fault of unnecessary medical intervention? I’m sorry it was so distressing for all concerned.
loading...
Hi daughtersofmassdestruction,
The full answer to that question would be really long
But basically, my wife didn’t understand what her birthing body would need (in terms of conditions and care) and hence she became fearful and adrenalised which slowed the birth – body’s natural response. However she didn’t know this and thought her body was failing her. After 21 hours she was told she hadn’t progressed in the past 3 hours of intense labour (nor was she checked on or supported) and that she should accept an epidural. As much as she wanted a natural birth, she accepted the advice. She dilated to 9.5 cm and was then told she needed an emergency c-section. Our boy was 8lb 3oz.
The next child was birthed naturally without drugs – but with great birth support and management. She weighed 9 lb 7oz. No tears. The next one was 9lb. Also natural, bloody hard and euphoric
Who knows, if the cards had fallen differently for the second two perhaps an emergency c-section would have again been necessary. And that would have been fine, because it would have been the best thing.
It has always been about healthy mother and child for us. However, she wasn’t healthy after the first one as she had PTSD. The second and third were a completely different story
loading...
thanks for the clarification – your wife’s experiences sound a lot like mine except my first came out after 37 hours with the forceps, avoiding a c-sec. fortunately I wasn’t traumatized after the experience, in fact I think I was more traumatized by the subsequent drug free birth! I’m glad you and your wife managed to find resolution through subsequent births.
loading...
What a beautiful comment.
loading...
It’s well-known the first birth is the most difficult. I’ve already been told that by 2 different doctors and read it in 3 different pregnancy books and I’m not even pregnant yet.
I would love to have a birth plan but no one on this earth, not my many friends who’ve given birth, not the doctors and not the midwives we will eventually consult will be able to tell me what kind of birth I’ll have the first time.
loading...
Hi Tara … just be careful that you don’t read everything as “fact” in all these books. There are many professional opinions that change constantly in the birthing industry.
The first birth is definitely not always the hardest at all. My first was amazing, natural and pain-free, while my 2nd was still natural, but not pain-free. It was shorter in time, but harder and there were many contributing factors – but mainly physical and emotional stress.
You’re right when you say no one can ever tell you how your birth will be, but many women report writing a FLEXIBLE plan, while taking a POSITIVE birthing class helped them feel a hell of a lot less scared about giving birth
loading...
My first birth was more difficult than my second but I really do believe it was more difficult because I wasn’t prepared. I think a little bit of knowledge on my part would have helped. For example I was induced and didn’t know that the pain would be bad right from the start so I got scared and pannicked (sp?). The contractions were coming one right on top of the other (which is actually dangerous for the baby) but I didn’t tell the midwife because I didn’t know that wasn’t supposed to happen, I didn’t know there is supposed to be a break between contractions. So it stayed like that until the midwife came into the room later and discovered what was happening. With my first I stayed lying down, I didn’t know that it’s often easier to stand and can make things progress faster. Small things like that which could have made the experience easier but that I just didn’t know about.
loading...
High fives to you!! This is such a wonderful, moving comment – It had me crying. Just perfect.
loading...
Thank you – love this comment which captures the complexity of it all.
loading...
This is the nicest thing written in this terrible thread! Your wife and boy are so lucky to have such a decent, caring bloke in their lives.
loading...
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment and share. Such a well written comment. I am thrilled that your wife and you were able to experience more positive births.
loading...
This comment was very thought provoking for me. I commented much earlier totally agreeing with Mia’s point of view – which I kind of still do – but yeah, I guess it’s not so black and white and polarised. Nor should it be. Thanks for your post, you are obviously very passionate.
loading...
This requires a standing ovation.
You have nailed it in one.
loading...
Beautifully written! Couldn’t agree more.
loading...
Thanks for your long and personal comment. I read it with interest, I really did. I wish you and your wife and son all the best.
x
loading...
Thanks Mia. Wife, 2 sons and daughter are all well. Our maternal culture isn’t so healthy though. A whole lot of doctors laughing at women’s wishes and saying “don’t you worry your pretty little head” without marvellous outcomes to support their approach. There’s no way a zookeeper would do that to an animal. Ironic that women are the biggest advocates of their own mistreatment. There is so much hurt on this page. But then, ignorance leads to hurt, fear, bewilderment, hate. What’s upsetting to me is that our system is perpetuating the misinformation and fuelling this toxic culture amongst otherwise strong independent women. What I’m reading here is making them look more like the women in Mad Men. I don’t want this for my daughter
loading...
Considering most OBs are women, I have a hard time believing that is a common thought.
loading...
Over the course of 7 pregnancies (3 kids, one in utero) I have never been treated with anything other than respect by any of the OBs I have seen. I’ve never been patronised, patted on the head, treated like a fool – I have always felt like an equal in trying to bring my babies healthily into the world. There have been a couple I didn’t really *like* but couldn’t fault the quality of their care. Same with midwives.
loading...
This is a beautiful response, a perfect one. It touches on all the points raised. I’m sorry that it takes a story like this to illustrate what needs to change and why the sort of person Mia is ranting about cares about the things they do.
Thank you for this post.
loading...
THANK YOU for this incredibly wonderful comment. xx
My first birth was very similar to your wife’s first – quite traumatic – and I suffered PTSD as a result, which interestingly wasn’t picked up until I fell pregnant with our third baby (we lost one in between) and I started to become very panicked, nervous and negative about the birthing process and how it would all happen the second time around.
So we armed ourselves. We hired a doula for emotional support and guidance, and then went about preparing and educating ourselves about birthing situations and our options and choices. After my wonderful doctor initially recommended another c-section, he worked with me to find a birth plan we were both happy with, and he supported my choice of wanting to try a VBAC. By the time my 9 months were up – I felt much more positive and confident about giving birth. After hours of trying without success, I never ended up with my VBAC – needing another emergency c-section. But my doctor respected my wishes and at least let me try – and this made a huge difference for my psychological healing.
I don’t think wanting to make informed and educated choices makes me a birthzilla. I understand Mia’s frustration with those competitive and inappropriate women who make labour and birth a sport – but as you so beautifully said – “bitches are bitches – keep the birth issue separate”.
Much love to you, your wife, and your 3 beautiful children. xxxx
loading...
‘….our maternal health system that lets more women down in this way than virtually any other in the world..’
What an extraordinary statement given your story. If you and your wife had been anywhere else other than in our maternal health system, or others like it, your wife and your child may have died.
…1/. The Medical Maternity system wants it to. It’s quicker, easier to schedule and is doctor-centric.
Incorrect. I’ll think you’ll find the opposite is true. Caesars require the team effort of an anaesthetist, obstetrician, surgical assistant, paediatrician and, at least, theatre nurses. Um, much more expensive than having one midwife attend a woman in a dimly lit room. But I think you’ve come close to the point here. In fact, the study (low risk cohort vs low risk cohort) that will truly provide answers as to the safety of elective caesar vs vaginal birth hasn’t actually been done. It is unlikely to be funded, because those ‘in the know’ realise that elective caesarean section (not emergency caesarean section after 31 hours of traumatic labour) is safer for both woman and child than vaginal birth. It would be terribly expensive to have to fund elective caesars for every woman – much cheaper to have them dimly lit rooms…
The third world still know how to (and expect to) birth their own babies. It’s not automatically outsourced…
Another extraordinary statement. At least most of these dimly lit rooms are actually inside a well equipped hospital – you’d prefer women to be in dimly lit rooms and in a developing country, where ONE IN NINETEEN WOMEN DIE IN CHILDBIRTH??
Yes, the birth issue is important. I urge you to do more research. Use your power for good.
loading...
Hi Joy,
Just responding to your response… this could go on for days
I think you have taken a few of my comments out of context – which is not surprising considering I paraphrased and didn’t provide the appropriate context. My fault, not yours.
Firstly, when I talk about “our maternal health system letting women down”, I am not talking about mortality rates. We have excellent OBs, midwives and medical personnel performing life-saving miracles every day on women who along with their loved ones will be eternally grateful. This is an absolute blessing. However, statistically the level of systemic medicalisation of birth is disproportionate to what is required. As you pointed out, in less fortunate countries 1 in 19 women die in childbirth. Thank heavens for our Maternal health system (and also our higher levels of nutrition, hygiene and health education) that this doesn’t happen here.
However, nearly one in two births in this country are via c-section. Which seems disproportionate if you believe that healthy women are designed to birth healthy children, and understand that statistically, if you fall into this group, this is the safest way to birth.
In response to your response to me saying “1/. The Medical Maternity system wants it to. It’s quicker, easier to schedule and is doctor-centric”… you said I was incorrect but then you talked about cost – not speed and ease of scheduling.
Your reference to ‘having a midwife attend a woman in a dimly lit room”… shows a real lack of understanding of midwifery based care. It doesn’t take into account the multiple ante natal visits which provide individualised care and support during the pregnancy leading up to the birth, and then the post natal care afterwards. Your comment about the dimly lit room also seemed quite sarcastic and down putting. You might want to rethink that.
Firstly, the whole sarcasm thing. It’s just not necessary. You can see that so many women are relating to what my wife and I have experienced. They are thankful for what I have shared. It’s fine for you to have a different perspective. But speaking sarcastically about their experience is really unkind. As I pointed out earlier, around two in three women have a positive birth experience. Around 1 in 3 are damaged by it. Why the two tribes have to war against each other is beyond me.
Secondly, did you know that you are a mammal? And that your mammalian brain, developed over thousands of generations prior to obstetrics, works in much the same way as any other mammal’s? See if you can find any zoo vet who will advocate putting any other mammal under bright lights. Maybe, it’s because animals aren’t intelligent enough to be persuaded to act against their own instinct.
With regards to the Vaginal Birth vs Elective C-section study having never been done, there have been many systemic reviews done (ENKIN et al + subsequent studies) on VBAC vs Elective C-section.
In all cases VBAC (after normal lower transverse c-section) was concluded to be SAFER than C-section. So unless VBAC is somehow safer than natural birth, then it’s safe to say any form of natural vaginal birth is safer than any form c-section in healthy women.
So if healthy mother and baby are most important, statistically, all healthy women should be aiming to birth naturally. Does this mean that I think, elective c-section should be ruled out? No. Does this mean that I think we should harsly judge women who choose elective c-section? No. I think women should be supporting each other rather than cat-fighting.
The reason this thread is such a warzone though can largely be attributed to ignorance and fear. Fear of dying, fear of others opinions, fear of being a bad mother, fear of failure, fear of being to controlling, fear of being too blase, fear of being less of a woman… fear born of ignorance that often leads to hurt and the desire to hurt in one’s own defence.
This culture of ignorance and fear both plays into the hands of, and is perpetuated by our maternal health system (and many of the women on this thread).
Think about all the things you swot up on in life (doing a real estate deal, planning a wedding, business negotiations, choosing a school) and ask yourself whether you’ve ever said oh I ‘ll stay out of it and trust somebody else.
It’s your body and your baby. Your birth will play a large part on the condition both will enter into the days afterwards. You have the ability to stack the odds in your favour of a good start to motherhood for yourself (there is a potent, wonderful cocktail of painkilling, love inducing, bond creating hormones waiting to be released inside you if you let it) and a good start to life for your baby. In the vast majority of cases, having a baby is not going to be about living or dying. When it is, bring on the medicalised birthing experts. But in most cases, fear of death, should not be the reason women should miss out on emerging powerfully, confidently and lovingly from their birth experience. That’s what I want for my daughter.
Lastly, Joy, you saying, “If you and your wife had been anywhere else other than in our maternal health system, or others like it, your wife and your child may have died” is incorrect. She was never going to be the 1 in 19 of people who die in the third world. She was (given our lack of birth education and abundance of birth miseducation) always going to be the 1 in 3 women let down by a system, we placed faith in.
The good thing is, we got educated and had two marvellous subsequent birth experiences. Not neat, not easy. Hard as hell… but marvellous and transformative. I’d encourage women (and husbands) to take a more active interest in their births. For the very reason that “a healthy mother and baby is what matters most”… birth matters too.
loading...
You’re ace!
loading...
Hang on, A man,
I’m a bit late to this party but will comment nonetheless. Ignorance and lack of education is not the problem here – childbirth is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do in her life! As you said yourself – one third of women will encounter problems. It’s no small number and of course, there is fear involved (have you read the statistics on vaginal tearing?). But asserting that people need to consider a ‘more active interest’ in childbirth implies they are not already, that if you simply took more care in educating yourself do you could have a wonderful experience just like you – and this is my problem with your theory.
You are speaking from your personal experience (as is everybody), which happened to include two wonderful natural births after some education. But this outcome was never guaranteed – good fortune was also on your side. Would you be here commenting if your wife’s VBAC had not gone to plan the first time? I think that would have changed your view on childbirth entirely. Like many people on here. For the record, my VBAC was much worse than my emergency c-section. Lack of education and ignorance had zero to do with that. It was not empowering or wonderful and this was nobody’s fault.
By all means – be a vaginal birth advocate. But there is no need to preach ‘education’ to the converted, or simplify the problems on this topic by citing ‘ignorance’. It’s patronising.
loading...
Hi “A woman”.
I think I’m done on this page after this because to be honest, I can’t do any of my good intentions justice. Every person on this thread is coming from a very different place and is viewing what I am saying through their own personal context. So often things get misunderstood.
For example, I am not a ‘vaginal birth’ advocate. Not every woman can have one. I am an informed, empowered, ‘positive birth’ advocate.
I know women who have had elective c-section, emergency c-section, hospital natural birth with drugs, without drugs, with stitches, without stitches, natural homebirths, water births, hospital VBACs, homebirth VBACs, breach hospital birth, breach homebirth, twin homebirths, premmie birth, homebirth transfer to hospital, still birth, miscarriages. (Seriously, I know people who have had each of these… Once you get old enough, I guess you see a lot more people go through a lot of different things. And because of our own experiences, I suppose I take an interest in more than just “did everyone make it out alive’. I think all women deserve that.) The big insight here though is that the ‘type of birth’ doesn’t determine whether a women is in the happy 2/3 or the unhappy 1/3. Women who (along with their husbands) understand more, generally have better outcomes.
My point about ‘ignorance’ is that our system/culture and much of this thread denegrates women who want anything more than for themselves and their baby to get out alive. This is nuts! Surely, the quality of life of both lives that emerge are important as well !?!
Well, the birth process plays a big part in this. How the woman is treated plays a big part in this. With respect, or without respect. With consideration, or without consideration. It all matters.
A birth plan is not about demanding a ‘vaginal birth’. The vast majority of women educated enough to write
a birth plan, know that nothing is guaranteed. The birth plan if more of an’ if this happens, then of the options that are all acceptable and safe, I’d like this one”. A birth plan may be asking to go down the drug-free natural birth route to begin with. But they all include an “in the event of requiring an emergency c-section, I’d like…” option. I know ours did.
I know our positive outcomes were never guaranteed. But as I said earlier, the birthing option we chose was STATISTICALLY the safest. We had fantastic ante natal support and management from a trained midwife and we knew both mother and child to be were really well and in good position.
If my wife’s first VBAC hadn’t gone as planned, we would have realised that, statistically, we were very unlucky. The odds were always in our favour. So, whilst we feel blessed, I know that, statistically, we were not lucky.
I think it’s shit that we live in a culture which results in so many women fearing and really not understanding birth at all. This birth war that’s happening on this thread is frightening and horrible to watch.
I have continued to respond because I feel really great that what I have written has been well received by so many women. I respond to your argument for their sake… and I hope it clarifies things for you.
I’m really not trying to be patronising. Just helpful.
But I feel it’s a little bit of a lost cause on this site. I’m not a birth educator. I’m a dad who has felt the repercussions of a wife being in the unhappy (Traumatised in her case) 1/3 once and the happy 2/3 twice. I prefer how it went the last two times.
But that’s it for me. I’m done here. I won’t be responding to anymore posts, because this thing can go on forever. All the best everyone
loading...
Understood. Thank you for your thoughful reply. I believe it’s just you and me now, the five minute window for internet discussion is over, and it’s time to wrap this thread up. But here’s to strong, empowered daughters everywhere!
loading...
Why does it matter how someone else gave birth? Period.
loading...
Mia,
For someone who isn’t trying to compete with other mothers, you sure do spend a lot of time bitching about them.
loading...
Mia,
Not having a go at all and it has been a few years since I’ve read your book – do I remember correctly that your had very much planned on a epidural for your daughter’s birth and because the anaesthetist was not available you had quite a traumatic experience and could not be ‘in the moment’ for the birth? And that it subsequently affected your ability to bond with your baby for some time…
Of course having a rigid birth plan is not a good idea but it does sound like the experience of giving birth was quite important to you at least at the time?
I think women who would put the experience of their birth before their baby would be in the significant minority – of course if your baby is in danger everything else goes out the window. I don’t see how that means that the birth shouldn’t be a very significant and important experience also.
I’m sure as you say most women in the world would love to have the access to our level of obstetric care – but in most cultures there are massively elaborate ceremonies and rituals connected with birth. Why do you think that this is? And do you think that they would throw them all out the window if they had our level of medical care – or if they would combine the two?
I’m not an Anthropologist, I’m sure that they could give you much more insightful and interesting reasons – but I do believe that these ceremonies have a reason behind their development. And from some of the studies I have read the associated birth and post-natal period being embedded within a context of meaning and cultural expectations helps involve both the mother, baby and community in a network of support. Something that appears to be severely lacking in our society.
Of course having a healthy baby is the most important priority – but I can’t help but wonder if some people who are desperately making detailed plans of their birth are also filling in a gap that was once filled with being connected to birth as a community and having a sense of understanding and expectation about the process.
I haven’t had a baby yet myself but this comes from talking to and observing women from other cultures who have been kind enough to share.
I always admire your strong desire to protect children and babies from any form of harm – which I think your passion comes from – but I don’t think women who feel that the birth itself is very important (in general) care any less about the welfare of their baby than those that don’t.
But then I’m also someone that is generally as excited about the plane trip anywhere as I am about the destination. Sometimes I think up destinations and reasons to go somewhere just so that I can get on a plane (though then I feel guilty about the carbon footprint and forgo it). Everyone is different. Of course you aren’t interested in the inflight entertainment – you are probably too doped up on xanax and asleep in your chicken cacciatore.
loading...
Hey Mabol,
Thanks for your comment – you have a good memory!
xx
loading...
Thank you Mia for sticking your neck out on this issue. Here’s my story. My daughter before she was born, was in the extended breech position. Added to that I had a narrow pelvis 2cm below average, discovered at an x-ray when I was 8 months pregnant. To put it bluntly, the delivery vaginally would have been extremely difficult with a high risk of her not surviving. Now she is a beautiful, happily married 22 year old young woman studying linguistics at University. So yes… ASK ME ABOUT MY CHILD.
loading...
Mia, for someone who isn’t trying to compete against other mothers, you sure do spend a lot of time, passion & effort bitching about them!
loading...
Mia, I thought this was a great article. My daughter is doing midwifery at university at the moment and when she started I said to her the two most important thing she could learn was not to force her own opinions and judgements on others and not to become a natural birth or breastfeeding zealot. Until you’re experiencing birth and early motherhood you really have no idea how you are going to react. I’m not saying not to plan but don’t judge yourself or anyone else too harshly if the plan goes totally out the window.
My kids are now 22,19 and 17. My birth and breast feeding experiences with all 3 were different. They have all grown up happy and healthy and occasionally lazy, cheeky and full of attitude. I don’t think that anything I did or didn’t do during their births has a thing to do with the people they are today. After all, that was just one day out of all the thousands of days that we have shared together since.
loading...
Such wise advice! We spent a short while with DD in NPICU/SCU and the nurses who hadn’t had kids were exceptionally zealous in forcing their opinion on “how it should all be done” and that I wasn’t “doing it right”. To the point that I (facetiously for the most part) wanted to slit my wrists for feeling like a failure before I’d even started.
Thank God for the nurses who had children of their own! They gave as few gentle pointers as possible and a good dose of encouragement and got me over the line to actually being confident enough to try just once more….
loading...
Gosh, I’m glad not to be a member of the Mummy Club today. Judging by these comments, it looks like one UGLY club.
loading...
Hilarious, in some ways, to read.. but truly scary to come across and witness a birthzilla in action! Unfortunately as a mother of 2 I have been taunted by many birthzilla’s. Birthzilla’s be warned.. keep your views to yourselves!!
I also agree that the breastfeeding topic is also one that some women become really polarising about.
Mothers, being a parent is challenging enough, let’s support each other!! We are all individuals and we all have the right to choose what works for us.
loading...
Mia, read article in the paper this morning.gotta hand it to you, you have ‘balls’ the size of watermelons honey. Good luck. I wish you were my friend 5 years ago. My birth plan went like this- me alive/baby alive = good day. parts able to operate for fun again one day = double bonus points. Success! your so called birthzillas do plenty of harm to the rest of us post birth sometimes too, but with the best of intentions- we actually have to find our Mummy tribe- and surprisingly that is often different than our wine squoffing tribe, or our dance around our hand bag tribe of 1991.
loading...
I have worked in birth for over 10 years and have heard hundreds of birth stories from women. I would say that close to 70% of them were traumatic and a lot of these woman had not properly de briefed their births and carried it around with them for years.
What I learnt from all these woman is that there is not a right or wrong way to birth, but what there is, is a great lack of good emotional support for birthing women. No matter how they choose to birth, all women should be heard, respected and acknowledged for their important part in this process
. If birth plans help – great. If talking about your birth story over and over helps – great. If choosing an elective c section for your second birth because the first one was so traumatic – great. If birthing at home because it helps you feel safer – great. We are all different, no one has walked in your shoes, so no one can tell you how to do it.
Open mind everyone, its better for the world
loading...
I fully agree with Mia. So much can go wrong during childbirth. I had 2 perfectly normal deliveries ( drugs and vaginally ) so ‘expected’ a breeze with my third. WRONG. Soooooo quickly my baby’s heartbeat dropped, I was rushed into theatre ( literally had nurses riding on my bed as we screeched down the corridors, they were slapping that betadine stuff on my tummy during the journey..) I was immediately under a general anaesthetic , and thank god, I had a healthy baby boy. Had I been at home this absoutely would not have been the case. I too LOVE doctors, they are miracle workers and save lives. Many many lives.
Birthzillas is a brilliant description!! I LOVE it. Couples with ‘birth plans’ make me ‘giggle on the inside’. Go Mia, you have every right to have written this piece.
loading...
I hope that in the future I can make someone lol telling my emergency c-section story the way you just did for me – Thank you!
loading...
Oh Mia, this is a brilliant piece. I love the term ‘birthzilla’. You had me laughing so much cos we all know one don’t we! I’m sure for someone as intelligent and successful as you- the hurtful comments posted will be water of a ducks back for you. Keep your personal opinion coming I say! It seems though, some commenters feel only they are allowed their personal opinion. Go figure.
loading...
The choice is ours, whatever way we go. Women need to stop constantly compwting with each other. I’m with Mia though – my son was born prematurely and if we weren’t in a hospital we would have lost him – no way I’m going to give birth anywhere but a hospital where every convenience of modern medicine is available if it is needed.
loading...
Perhaps you wouldnt have written this piece if you had experinced a traumatic birth that resulted in severe PTSD that meant the first 3 years of your babies life was filled with intense anxiety and flashbacks. The birth process effects many women on all levels and “to just get over it and be gratetful for your baby” is the height of insensitivity. Any plan that helps a woman feel like she is being respected and listened to at the one moment in her life that she will always remember is a step in the right direction.
loading...
erm, Mia gave birth to a little girl who had died in utero. I don’t think it comes more traumatic than that.
loading...
Well now it makes a little bit more sense where she’s coming from in this articles. I’m very sorry to hear of her tragic loss, but perhaps she should flag the source of her resentment of the women who ‘put themselves first’.
loading...
Are you serious Jo? Geez.
loading...
Jo, the website is called Mamamia. Mia can write whatever she likes.
loading...
If you choose to give birth away from medical assistance and something serious happens to you or your baby that could have been prevented, how is that okay?
I am in complete agreement with Mia’s article.
And although offensive to some, I think the word ‘Birthzilla’ is a great word for instantly communicating the self-absorbed madness of a pregnant woman who thinks the way she gives birth is more important than the health and safety of herself and her baby.
Also, I think some commenters have misunderstood Mia’s joke about having a birth plan. She didn’t mean don’t have one. She meant that birth plans can often go out the window once in the throes of labour, so don’t get too attached to it. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. What matters is a healthy mum and bub.
loading...
Agree! Well said.
loading...
yep, exactly…
loading...
Gawd, where to start…actually, I couldn’t be stuffed. Thanks for an hilariously funny read though.
loading...
Honest: the two births I had were horrendous. But the two children I got are GLORIOUS. My “birth plan” went to plan as I got two GLORIOUS children.
As an added point, considering a lot of the comments, I had no problems feeding (and I had 2 emergency c-secs), I was lucky enough to not go through PND, and i made sure I was surrounded by supportive and loving family and friends. Focus on the outcome, your babes and your new family. That’s what I did.
loading...
No one expects a bride to just rock up on the day without preparation, sensible planning is of course required, but bridezillas go to a whole other level.
Equally….no one expects a mum-to-be to not educate herself and have insight into the options and process itself….. But birthzillas soooo go to a whole other level as well…… Who cares what the first colour or song or voice the baby encounters? Don’t over think it……birth is a very special process that requires sensible planning in order to ensure happy ever after with bubs. Just like the wedding…….it’s about the vows and the marriage…. Not the fireworks or shoes or doves. A great analogy Mia.
loading...
Should have said….. I’m a mum to 4 kids and lost 5 angels along the way. I’ve had preeclampsia, gestational diabetes, and twins, and all induced labours.
It’s not about the birth…it’s about a safe arrival…….
Notice a lot of people on 2nd marriages don’t spend as much money on the 2nd wedding cause they’ve realized it’s not about the flair….. But the love.
loading...
Thank you. I mean it – thank you.
I have one child whose labour (vaginal birth in hospital) was difficult, prolonged, distressing for him and ended with venteuse which failed once and almost failed a second time, before he was finally born, resuscitated and rushed to Neo-natal Intensive Care.
I have a second child born by elective Caesarian (our choice after the tough experience our first went through) where he and I were in the care of expert, professional, warm-hearted people throughout. We laughed and traded jokes with the theatre staff and in 15 minutes we were holding our newborn. The experience was exhilarating.
The people who brag about their pure birthing experiences are the same ones who sneeringly dismiss mothers who have C-sections as ‘too posh to push’.
They’re ignorant of the fact that 100 years ago the mortality rate for mothers in childbirth was one in five. Not to mention the mortality rate for newborns was much higher than today.
I feel there is pressure on mums-to-be to give birth without drugs or other medical interventions in order to be true to their natural birthing role. Or something along those lines. In my opinion it’s a giant con.
We seek modern medical care when we need bones reset, gallbladders removed, urinary tract infections cleared up and lives saved after horrific car accidents. Why should women not seek modern medical care when bringing their babies into the world?
loading...
Well said.
loading...
Really well said!
loading...
Love this – really well said.
loading...
Sigh. Of course statistics will show more women die from childbirth in hospitals because that is where the majority of women give birth. I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
loading...
Exactly!
loading...
The stats are always per 1000 or per 10000 they are not totals.
loading...
To all those knocking birth plans…why when you’re pregnant do you get offered to attend birthing classes? To PREPARE yourself for the birth.
Isn’t having a birth plan just taking it one step further and exercising your choices within that preparation.
Anyone who gets pregnant and goes into labour without having researched the birthing experience, choices available (and their risks/advantages and possible complications in any form is a fool.
loading...
I think there is a big difference between educating yourself and having a birth plan set in stone.
loading...
Yep, I agree Mel.
loading...
Well, OBVIOUSLY, if you you’re striving for a drug free birth and have to have an emergency casearian, it all goes out the window.
loading...
Actually my antenatal classes spent way more time preparing us for the shock of having coming home with a baby and having your life completely changed.
loading...
Oh Mia… really? This article is sickening and really disheartening. Mothers don’t need another hateful, hurtful pigeon hole to be stuffed in.
We don’t need another reason to sling shit at eachother from across the interwebs… about our personal choices, the way we parent and the way we choose to push our baby in to the world.
Birth IS the most amazing experience – whether it be vaginal, C/section, drug free, underwater or every drug you can offer please!! Either way you are bringing a little being in to the world that you created. It is always unique and IT IS about CHOICE.
It is well documented that the more empowered and SAFE a woman feels in the lead up and during birth, the better the outcomes for bonding, breastfeeding and general mental wellbeing. Win win for baby and mother! So, if a woman makes informed choices within safe limits to birth her child any way she wishes who are you, Mia to judge that?
i guess this article has painted you in that light – just a bit judgey. Oh well… I guess its all about readership and hits, right?
loading...
Love your article and love that you have an opinion and are not afraid to voice it even more. I can’t stand the birth conversation, my way of dealing with it is getting in that I had an elective caesar early on in the piece. Then as soon as I get the first disdainful look, and it’s never long, I just say “I am far to posh to push”. They arent interested in the background, and I am frankly not interested in sharing the information, or apologizing for my choices. I find it also prevents the next game of “how long did you breast feed” which interests me even less.
On a separate point, I and the most fabulous obstetrician and he definately couseled me on not getting to set on the birth we had planned. He specifically brought it up because he said that mothers where the birth hadn’t gone to their plans were often quite traumatized.
loading...
LOVE IT!
So true, well said Mia! And yet again this is why I loooove you!!
I laugh really hard at mums with their birth plans – honestly it means jack!!
But FYI The smallest plan I made for my third baby was go to the hospital – drugs please BUT crap we didn’t make it !!!!
So just don’t ever make plans lol!!
loading...
While you claim to be just ‘another person with your own opinions’ you seem to lack the forethought of how your words will be construed. You have this remarkable standing where you are reaching thousands of women with your articles. Your ‘opinions’ are expressed in a way that could possibly change a womans mind about birth or parenting…and sadly your not writing in your journal. Do you not understand the responsibility weighted in your words? How reckless.
loading...
Agreed! So reckless!
loading...
Harsh, very harsh,
loading...
BRIDEZILLA
Definition: a bride-to-be who focuses so much on the event that she becomes difficult and obnoxious
That would be extreme behaviour then? right.
I feel so disappointed with this article.
Making a plan doesn’t make you a Birthzilla automatically.
I made a plan. I looked back on it when I was pregnant with #2. It was so earnest that I had to smile. Both my births went to plan, but not because I had a plan. Both my babies were just up for being born that way.
What a plan did for me was give me confidence. The strength to believe that I could do this really daunting, scary thing called giving birth. I would have had intervention in a heartbeat had my obstetrician at my private hospital recommended it. The births of my babies were NEVER about my experience.
Life isn’t black and white Mia. And your broad spectrum of Birthzilla behaviour doesn’t wash either – it just adds further insult.
loading...
Hi A Planner,
As I stated above, I never said having a birth plan makes you a Birthzilla. I think everyone has some kind of a plan.
Just like you can be a bride and plan your wedding without becoming a Bridezilla – it’s a term that is used to describe someone who goes OTT and becomes fixated on an event lasting only a few hours and loses perspective about how the most important part (marriage/baby) comes afterwards.
loading...
Thanks for your response Mia.
I definitely had a different outtake from your initial words. That’s the problem with typed words isn’t it?!
x
loading...
How is becoming fixated on a life-changing and empowering event (that lasts a hell of a lot longer than a few hours for some) OTT?
The wonder of childbirth only loses it’s importance when it’s not given the respect it deserves.
C’mon Mia, for God’s sake….some of us have experiences akin to pushing a watermelon out of a sock! That’s a HUGE freakin’ deal.
Pushing a baby out of your vagina IS OTT.
No one is endorsing babies dying at homebirths without proper medical attention.
You should be encouraging women to get all OTT and connected with their birth experience.
My Mum who had me and my brother in the 1970′s had us both induced (me forceps delivered, episotomy with my brother) to fit in with the OB’s holiday schedule. She has voiced regret many times at not being active, demanding, and generally OTT for an experience she neved experienced as nature intended.
loading...
I wonder Mia if you could write this article again would you change anything? In terms of business it certainly has people aware of Mamamia and probably some new followers. However you may have unintentionally segregated the women folk of Australia and called women who are different to you a name that will now stick.
I think people are shocked because Mamamia prides itself on not judging each other as women and this article does exactly that. May instead of making uninformed statements, questions would have been more helpful, like why do we feel the need to plan our births today, if we are over controlling with our birth plans what are we frightened of?
Interesting to know your response?
loading...
I get you Mia.
I really cannot understand why these other women don’t get the whole B’whateverzilla thing.
Maybe they just don’t want to.
It must get very frustrating for you sometimes.
Keep up the good work.
loading...
Those sorts of people usually don’t ‘get it’ because it’s describing them
loading...
I had a doctor push for an induction 1 day over term. My midwife stressed to me that it was MY choice, as long as baby was fine (heart rate etc) I gave birth naturally at 42 + 2. Three hour labour and 4.6kg boy. I often wonder how that induction would have ended? Of course, with a baby….but there’s so many other factors aside from the physical before and after birth.
An interesting read
http://www.hencigoer.com/betterbirth/
loading...
Well bravo to you. You went past the recommended time frame for pregnancy( 16 days), risking your placenta crapping out and bub dying, but hey you showed that OB and got your vaginal birth. Can’t believe you are proud of that.
loading...
Why are women being so awful to each other? YES I’M TALKING TO YOU.
loading...
My pregnancy was monitored by MY midwife who had 20+yrs experience
I am proud.
With the calculations regarding due date, if you don’t know when you concieved it is 2 weeks + or -……
I never risked anything.
loading...
I’m going for a scan tomorrow because I am ‘small for dates’. Well, actually, no, just the date they worked out using my LMP is not accurate, as I ovulated on day 20, not day 14. So when I am 40 weeks and the pressure to induce is started, I will actually only be 39 weeks. If only they had listened to me at my first appointment. Keeping my fingers crossed that they change my due date tomorrow!
loading...
Ah, Mia, you’ve done it again…you love to have a snarky go at women who care about birth every so often, don’t you. As a midwife, I understand the reason for birth plans, even though I warn women that their birth is most unlikely to go that way. They are writing birth plans because they are afraid (and rightly so) that the birth will be taken out of their hands and that they have a better than evens chance of getting induced, cut and drugged. Birth plans have become necessary because women don’t trust that, when they are in the thick of labour, they will be well-informed and respected. There is a ton of research which supports the notion that a fair percentage of women are scared to death of birth and another large group end up with PTSD as a result of their births. No one in their right mind would accuse a mother of valuing the birth experience over the baby – I have seen all sorts of birthing mothers endure a lot for the sake of their babies. But research also bears out the idea that a good birth experience benefits mother, child, family and those around them. Breastfeeding goes better, mothers have less pain and shorter recovery if the birth is closer to “natural” than “medicalised”. And please don’t bring out the old “first world problems” saw again. I’ve cared for a lot of refugees and others from all over the world and their hospital births are often accompanied by staff and medicine shortages , disrespect (slapped for yelling while birthing!) and little postnatal care and education. Birth is an intrinsically safe experience, which is why the world’s population is 7 billion and counting. Women from developing countries lose their lives in childbirth mostly because of man-made reasons (like postpartum haemorrhage due to anaemia which is related to malnutrition), marrying girls off when they are too young to bear a baby, female genital mutilation etc. All women have a right to respectful, loving care in birth, as well as timely help when needed. A wonderful Australian midwife is, at this moment, educating overworked Kenyan midwives and Doctors to be more gentle with women, allow them to have family support during labour, birth upright and many other innovations which we know make birth easier. The women are getting better outcomes and they LOVE their birthing experiences – plus the staff are having an easier time due to the women being in better shape postnatally. The biggest problem I have with your scathing “Birthzilla” epithet is that you are discounting the meaning of women’s births for them. Bridezillas are a pain but at least they get married and it is only one day. But how a baby is born has a big impact on the mother-baby relationship for weeks, months and even years afterwards. It is not at all comparable. Aren’t you lucky you had your ideal births in hospital – you would be in the minority, I’m thinking. Do you apply the term “Birthzilla” to those women who choose elective Caesareans, too, I wonder? The problem with opinion pieces is that they are broadcasted widely and people might actually think you know what you are talking about – I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about what constitutes a “birthzilla” unless you have met hundreds or thousands of birthing women like…a midwife, perhaps?
loading...
Paragraphs, Comadrona, will make all the difference to readability. No disrespect intended – I just couldn’t get through it.
loading...
Yes I want to read it but could you go back in and put some paragraph’s in it to make it easier to read please.
loading...
such an informed response to this article.
loading...
Sorry too much to read!
But judging by the first and last lines, full of your own self importance.
loading...
I wouldn’t exactly call giving birth to a still born child a perfect birth by any stretch of the imagination…. (although certainly in the minority in that regard).
loading...
Me neither, having gone through the experience myself.
loading...
Wonderfully informed reply! We are so very lucky to have such wonderful midwifes like Comadrona!
loading...