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birth plans birthzillas 380x399 Birthzillas: when its all about the birth, not the baby

 

 

 

 

by MIA FREEDMAN

“Did you have a plan for your placenta?” the woman asked me earnestly. She was pregnant. I was confused.

We’d only just met at a BBQ and as she repeated her question, I cocked my head quizically like a Labradoodle trying to understand a complex sentence. I’d never heard the words ‘plan’ and ‘placenta’ together and I was having trouble reconciling them.

“Huh? You mean did I, like, cook it or bury it in the garden?” She shook her head. “No, I mean when you gave birth did you have a plan for how your placenta would be delivered?”

Blink. “Um, out of my vagina? Does that count as a plan?”

More head shaking. The woman was growing impatient because she had a plan and she wanted to tell me about it. Her three page birth plan had “Delivering The Placenta” as its own subhead with half a dozen bullet points underneath.

I know this because she showed it to me on her phone while I tried not to stab myself with a sausage.

My personal view of birth plans is that they’re most useful when you set them on fire and use them to toast marshmallows. But there are some women who live for them: I call them Birthzillas because just like a Bridezilla focusses on the wedding not the marriage, The Birthzilla appears more interested in having a birth experience than a baby.

This term won’t win me any friends among those who believe passionately in a particular type of birth. Homebirth, freebirth, waterbirth, hypnotic birth, active birth, calm birth, silent birth……there’s a first-world menu of options for anyone who wishes to select from it, both inside and outside the hospital system.

Birthzillas usually speak about ‘empowerment’ and ‘control’ and use a lot of personal pronouns. Their own experience is invariably at the centre of their narrative even though they will always claim (and probably believe) that they’re acting selflessly for the good of their baby. This baffles me. It’s a bit like going to Paris and obsessing about the in-flight entertainment instead of, you know, PARIS.

Some women define themselves by the type of birth they had, even though their children are now in primary school. I antagonised this subculture a few years ago when I spoke out about freebirth (the practice of giving birth at home without any medical support not even a midwife) and called it reckless.

Many “birth advocates” came after me with pitchforks and autosignatures like:

“Anne-Marie, mother of Wyllow (happily freebirthed in 2002) and Jaydyn (proudly waterbirthed at home in 2004).”

It’s birth as identity and it’s odd.

The Birthzilla is such a first world creation. For millions of women, their birth plan is simply: “please let my baby and I survive”. However, among privileged women with access to safe and affordable care, I’ve noticed a growing fixation on the birth process.

For many, it’s about control. One of the most confronting things about pregnancy and birth is the unpredictability of it and women often believe they can regain control by planning. Babies, however, like to raise their middle finger at your plans. They come early, they come late, they get stuck, they get suddenly distressed or tired or tangled. I know you’ve made three playlists for the different stages of your labour but your baby doesn’t care.

tina fey bossypants1 380x553 Birthzillas: when its all about the birth, not the babyIn her memoir, Bossypants, the brilliant Tina Fey describes the birth of her first child like this: “Vaginal delivery, epidural, didn’t poop on the table”. Those three pertinent facts sum it up, pre-emptively answering the most common questions other women ask.

Men? They couldn’t care less. Never in your life will you hear a man urge a woman, “Please! Tell me more about the way you gave birth!”. Not even if she’s his wife.

While most women need little encouragement to launch into a detailed account of her birth from conception to the first time she has sex afterwards, men generally try to leave the room when the subject comes up. It’s just not that interesting to them. I don’t mean the part where they saw their baby for the first time. That’s mind-blowing. But the bits before that? Utterly insignificant compared to the lifetime of parenting that comes afterwards.

I recently heard a woman on the radio waxing lyrical about how her two homebirths “were the most incredible experiences of my life and I don’t know anyone who had a hospital birth and could say the same thing”. Me. I could. Three hospital births. Loved them all. And this is where I start to get tetchy.

Let me state for the record: I’m a fan of doctors. Love them. Especially obstetricians. If I could give birth in a stadium full of people in white coats with letters after their names I would do a happy jig. What? You’re a doctor of French literature? Mathematics? Oh well, come on down! The more qualifications nearby, the better.

But in the maddening world of competitive mothering, some women see their birth experience as a platform for smugness and superiority. A badge of maternal honour. The game of My Birth Was Better Than Yours is an ugly, destructive one. And hugely risky if it puts anything above the physical welfare of a baby.

So yes, I could bang on and on about my birth experiences. But I’d prefer to tell you about my kids.

UPDATE 6pm Sunday 17 June: Having read most of the comments and watch the debate unfold over the day, I just wanted to clarify four things.

1. Being a feminist does not – to me – mean agreeing with every decision made and every opinion held by everyone who happens to have a vagina. I will always be authentic and honest about my own opinions and this column is an example of that. Some seem to believe it’s my ‘duty’ to support all women regardless of their choices or behaviour. I’m afraid that’s not going to happen. I am one person with one opinion. I don’t claim to speak on behalf of anyone else. There are hundreds of contributors to Mamamia and thousands of comments that reflect a hugely diverse range of opinions which is as it should be.

2. I am not suggesting making a birth plan is reckless or even stupid. I’m not suggesting it’s a good idea to walk into your birth knowing nothing. Many commenters below have spoken about ‘birth preferences’ which I think is sensible. But becoming too fixated on the way you give birth is, in my opinion, a misplaced priority and ultimately often futile. And I’ve seen sooooo many women shocked, bewildered, disappointed and even ashamed that their birth did not go according to their plan. Being aware that it could all go to hell is an important part of preparing for the very unpredictable experience of giving birth.

3. There is a broad spectrum of Birthzilla behaviour. Some of it – making detailed plans for your placenta or compiling endless playlists for your ipod – is harmless enough. Trivial even. You want a water birth in a birth centre? Why not. More insidious are the Birthzillas who derive status and superiority from the way they give birth. They can be almost passive aggressive about it. And who says giving birth at home or without drugs is somehow ‘better’ or ‘more meaningful’ than giving birth via c-section or with an epidural or with forceps?

4. At the extreme end of the Birthzilla spectrum are those women who put their birth experience above the health and wellbeing of their baby. And yes it happens. In fact the South Australian coronor recently found that three babies who died during homebirths would have certainly survived had they been born in hospitals. You can read more about that here. In each case, their mothers knew the pregnancies were high risk and chose to give birth at home without medical support anyway. Their babies died. And for what? That is where Birthzilla behaviour can actually be a matter of life and death.

 

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1,449 Comments so far

  1. anna

    take a chill pill everyone…
    some of you are reading way too much into what Mia wrote

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  2. Anon for this...

    I’m sick of the debates between mothers – natural vs. c section, breast vs. bottle fed – blah blah blah. After years of IVF I just wish I was in a position to be able to choose.

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  3. Sophie

    Mia, the amount of energy you and words you seem to dedicate to this topic suggests to me that deep down you are actually insecure or dissappointed with your birth experiences…you really do get up on your high horse! Having a baby is a momentous occassional that people will prepare for in different ways. Whatever works for the individual woman, in my opinion, is fine. Not everyone starts from the base so it’s only natural that women will approach birth in different ways. Your article is ironically judgemental but I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion and this makes for a lively column. Having my first baby recently and joining my mothers group I can’t help feeling less and less critical of other women. We need to look after and support one another.

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    • Nat

      @ Sophie, yes we need to support one another but seriously we dont need Birthzilla’s banging on about the birth plan of their placenta, or being oh so smug about their natural births. Secondly nearly every mother is happy to have a healthy baby as an outcome., not bore people with their disappointing birth experience. No wonder mothers are becoming dull in their conversations at mothers groups. Seriously who gives 2 hoots about your placenta. Nobody but you… Get that little bit of info into your head. Nobody.

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  4. Jemima

    The level of vitriol on this topic is out of control. I believe that Mia was not judging those with birth plans rather those who believe the way they give birth makes them somehow superior to those who choose (or have no choice) to give birth a different way. I have witnessed women who give birth naturally tell those who have had caesareans “I gave birth the right way” or “I gave birth properly”. In the same way I have seen women criticised for being UNABLE (note not unwilling – not that it is anyone’s business) to breastfeed.

    I say all of this from the position of being childless. I am trying so hard to get pregnant and due to a medical condition (not that I should have to justify it) if I am lucky enough to get pregnant I will definitely be having a C-section.

    Surely a happy and healthy baby should be the highest of our priorities. How we get there does not matter.

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  5. Whitney M

    I am shocked that so many women are ignorant to the effect that medical intervention and drugs have on their baby and their bodies.

    Yes, there is a time and need for intervention to safeguard a Mother’s and baby’s life. No one is arguing that. Not most cases though.

    Too many women fear childbirth, especially giving birth without pain-relief which has given our country one of the highest rates of intervention in the world.

    Should we be proud of this, and be encouraging fellow mothers to “have all the drugs they can get their hands on” or recommend the epidural without hesitation?
    (which was the advice I was given by my peers for baby number 1, which resulted in requested drugs, tearing down there and an extremely floppy, lethargic baby who was rushed to special care)

    Irresponsible mothers aside (including the high risk homebirthers and those mothers who drink, smoke or drink 11 litres of coke each day whilst pregnant, the list goes on)

    Does it matter how one achieves a natural birth, as long as no UNNECESSARY drugs are given? And YES, we should be encouraging natural birth. Intervention should be a necessary option, medically.

    If pregnant women heard more stories about positive natural birth, and received education on how to manage a natural birth, the rate of unnecessary intervention WOULD decrease. They should be teaching this stuff at school.

    It shocks me more, to hear drugged up birth stories and stories about epidurals requested 5 mins into hard labour, than a story about a woman holding a moonlit garden party for her placenta.

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  6. FuFu

    I’m due in 9 days. I’ve written a couple of things down, that I’d like to deliver vaginally of possible and avoid an epidural cause I’m terrified of needles. However I will happily accept medical intervention if needed and respect the medics opinion. I want a healthy and happy bub over an experience!
    And finally under no circumstances is my mother in law to have anything to do with the labour or birth, including knowing that it’s happening. That was the part I underlined.

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    • Nicole Madigan-Everest

      that last line – hilarious!

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      • FuFu

        Ha! The woman is a nut who tried to feed me fish pie despite a seafood allergy. Apparently allergies are made up by ‘precious’ people. In my most vulnerable state I want her as far away as possible. Luckily hubby is on board! She’s banned from our house and I refuse to eat anything she ever touches…lest it kills me!!

        Thanks for the good wishes..:)

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    • jess88

      All the best to you and your bub :-)

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  7. Sarah

    Well I don’t know if I’m a ‘birthzilla’ or not? I sure did have a plan for the birth of my two children and they both were completely different plans each time (including the placenta). My second birth I am proud to say was one of the most amazing and empowered experiences I have ever had. Is it ok to say that? Or am i going to be thrown to the wolves? Does it define me on who I am? Yes it does a bit. As for me i found it is part of what myself as a woman is all about and of using my body the way it was built for. Do I feel smug? No, but I sure as hell think my experience was much better than a lot of others including my own first birth. Medical advancement today saves lives including complicated pregnancies and births no doubt about it. But giving birth is normal and not something most people need to ‘survive’ from. Statements like that in the article are scaremongering. The tone of the article was very condescending I thought and a little bit mean. The woman that made you want to impale yourself on a sausage obviously would be very hurt to hear you say that’s how she made you feel. I feel women need to hear more good, normal birth stories. People don’t believe me when I say my second birth didn’t hurt (no drugs). It didn’t and I’m happy to broadcast that loud and clear if asked but people get uncomfortable and think I’m a nutter as they have grown up on the horror stories. All good plans do go astray and you need to be flexible but putting someone down for having a plan ( even if we have to chuckle to ourselves a bit knowing some plans are unrealistic when you get down to the nitty gritty of giving birth, I.e. music, scents and clothing), is really uncalled for.

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    • L.C.

      Very well put. I can see where the author is coming from but I do think it is too judgemental considering the prospect of child birth even for consecutive children is very scary and every individual has their own way of dealing with their feelings and the technical side of the birth.

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      • Sarah

        My way of dealing with my first birth was take more control of the situation (as best you can when it comes to birthing) with the second.
        Going in with the first birth with the prospect of giving birth naturally with only a basic idea on how my body works during labour was very uneducated of me. I sure did educate myself on the pros and cons of drugs which seems to be a big highlight in birth classes at the hospital. Giving birth to your child is only a small part of their lives but it can also have the greatest impact on their lives too. So why wouldn’t you plan and study for a life event that in our first world country it has been medicalised to the hilt. We aren’t exposed to the natural and normalacy of birth which is an everyday occurance so have to resort to our own education. We don’t get it through the osmosis of seeing our sisters, aunts even mothers give birth like in the olden days (pre victorian times). So if you want to plan go for it. It makes sense to me to do so.

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  8. Anon

    I wonder if there is any correlation between Bridezillas (all about the wedding, very little about the marriage) and Birthzillas (all about the birth, very little about the baby).
    My view of a birth plan was, “I’ve never done this before, I have no clue how my body will cope, let’s just go with it and see what happens”. I had to have an emergency caesarean after 16 hours of unproductive labour (I never dilated more than 3.5 cms, baby’s head was too big to actually engage with my pelvis). Who would have thought?

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  9. beee

    Totally agree Mia. My birthplan has and always will be “do whatever I need to do to get baby out of me safely”

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    • Whitney M

      Is pumping your baby full of drugs considered safe though?

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      • princesstan

        Ummmm, where did beee mention drugs Whitney?

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      • adrienne

        administering drugs required for a c-section surely beats having a baby die inside of you during labor.

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        • Whitney M

          OMG!!!!

          We aren’t talking about EMERGENCY CAESARIAN or a CAESARIAN WHERE THE MOTHER AND OR CHILD IS IN DANGER.

          This is an argument regarding ELECTIVE intervention.

          Geez.

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          • Cordeline

            Is it? I didn’t think was an argument about ELECTIVE intervention at all…. I thought it was about birth plans.

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      • Ana

        The answer to that question totally depends on the situation. In this discussion about birth plans the problem is that you cannot foresee and plan for every situation. So for instance, to say no drugs and then find yourself in a position where one or both of you need them has the potential to be as traumatic as a person who says ‘whatever, get it out of me’ and ends up with no drugs.

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      • Kris2040

        The drugs are considered safe by the medical profession, so I’m going to go with yes, if you feel the need.

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  10. kersten

    Divisive much?

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  11. jojowilks

    my birth plan… hmmm..
    one emergency Cesarean followed by an elective Cesarean for number 2.
    I spent the second pregnancy happy in the knowledge I would have a safe , straight forward delivery…
    Judge me- go on..

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    • Ana

      Having had an emergency c-section last year I feel strongly that the next one will be a planned caesar too. I know people will judge, wail and bemoan the fact that I’m ‘missing out’, but despite some world class counselling I think that this will be the best for me, and my family.

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      • LaurenHC

        My older brother was an emergency c-section, I was elective afterwards… 20 years later I’m fine :P just ignore it, the key thing is to have a healthy baby :)

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  12. Olivia

    I just laugh now, at Pregnant-Me. My birth plan consisted of very low-maintenance things. Delayed cord clamping, immediate skin-to-skin, breastfeeding, no cesarean, no drugs. My biggest fear was that I wouldn’t be able to breastfeed, second of which was that if I had a cesarean it would ruin said breastfeeding, bonding, etc. You can thank “Business of Being Born” for that one.

    Thankfully, there are no midwives where I live and I had not heard of UC yet. I say “thankfully” because my son came out blue with the cord wrapped around his neck and shoulders. He had Apgars of 2 and 7, and they had to bag him for the first 3 minutes of his life because he wasn’t breathing, and then immediately put him in the NICU on the CPAP. I didn’t get to hold him until he was 6 or 8 hours old (I can’t remember which).

    The result of that was that we took him off life support at 5 days old, on Christmas Eve 2010. He wasn’t supposed to live past 7 days old, but here he is at almost 18 months old, happy and healthy…..but with severe spastic quad cerebral palsy due to the lack of oxygen he suffered at birth.

    I look back at Pregnant-Me and laugh, because I was SO NAIVE. I laugh bitterly when I see women bitching about how they didn’t get to give birth the way they wanted, but their kids ended up completely healthy. It makes me so incredibly angry, the amount of women out there who value the experience over the baby. You have a PERFECTLY HEALTHY BABY, what the hell are you complaining about? Scars fade but brain damage doesn’t heal. That is forever. I spend every day wondering if mine will ever walk, talk, run, get a job, fall in love, have a family of his own.

    Next time, I will be having an elective c-section. There is no way I could handle vaginal birth again, emotionally. I have PTSD from my son’s birth. I feel sad because my next pregnancy will be riddled with worry…”Is history going to repeat itself?”. There’s nothing in this world I want more than to have a healthy baby.

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    • oliveblanche

      Hi Olivia, thank you for sharing your story. Your little man sounds pretty determined! 18 months old and only expected to live less than 7, sounds like a fighter to me :) My thoughts are with you and your family. I hope everything goes well for you and your next pregnancy isn’t too worrisome. You sound like a strong woman and if you just stay as determined and strong as your son I think you will be fine. Xoxo

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  13. Guest

    “Be kind to everyone, for we are all fighting a hard battle.” – Plato

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  14. Cara

    Are birth plans really such a big deal that Mia needs to write 3 articles in 4 years about them? So what if some women want to exercise choice where it is available. How does it affect anyone else? High-risk homebirthers are a tiny minority, why offend everyone else who took pen to paper?

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    • Sylvie Sparrow

      This, exactly. Well put.

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  15. Missy

    I think most mums do the best they can with their births. If some turn the process competitive that’s crazy. Better to support each other in our unique, and ultimately wonderful, births and bubs.

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  16. Zoe

    I am at a loss as to why the original post generated so many negative comments – I thought being a modest feminist meant acknowledging that women didn’t have to fit into mold X, Y or Z.

    (I too would prefer to tell you about my child – he’s Awesome! and how he came into the world has had very little to do with that).

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  17. Louise

    SIgh, why are we each others worse enemies.
    I am bringing up two girls and only the other day I was telling them about this need for women to tear each other down at any opportunity. It is sad. I had two difficult births, but would do it all again for my girls! The birth plan should be “safe delivery for baby and mum”. THATS IT! Sure gather all the knowledge you want but be prepared to throw it out the window if need be. Surely we can all at least agree that the best plan is “All alive at the end of it”?

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  18. Jess2

    Have a good day at work Mia. I would get depressed waking up to read all these comments.

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    • Esther

      Bit like my yesterday. I sat down at the table with my breakfast and opened the newspaper to read Mia’s article. I ended up crying into my cereal I was so angry and upset after reading it.

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      • Jess2

        Really…I had the opposite view. I was happy to read it. Why did it make you cry? My twins arrived by emergency c section after one twin had stopped tracing. I had planned natural birth. I could not care less how they ended up arriving…,and six weeks in nicu only made me love midwives and nurses more.

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        • Esther

          Because I had a plan with my second. Not written down, just ideas I’d formulated. Mainly on ways to cope with the pain (breathing techniques) and I also planned to not have an epidural and to stand up rather than lie down. So that was my plan, all 3 points of it. I also understood none of it might happen but that was my plan for if there were no complications. There were no complications and I did get to do the things I wanted to. Reading the article it was upsetting to realise that other women might think I’m a bad person for that, a selfish “Birthzilla” who doesn’t care about my baby because I had some idea of what I would like to do. It didn’t help that the illustration with the article did look like me (I wear those exact Birkenstocks!). I don’t judge other women on their birth choices, if someone wants an elective caesarian or whatever that’s not my business and at the same time I want the freedom to make my choices without being ridiculed.

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          • Kris

            But if you’re not going around telling people how awesome you are for doing that and belittling others for not doing what you did, and you don’t expect a medal for it, you’re not a birthzilla.

            I wonder if people are as offended at the term “Bridezilla”?

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          • Jess2

            With all due respect I don’t think the article was having a go at women who have a general plan of how they want the day to play out. So I think you’re fine…not a bzilla at all.

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  19. Away

    Just off to visit a very old friend. She is 3 weeks away from her 3rd baby. First two were very complicated births… went over two weeks with both and wouldn’t let them induce (she is a natural therapist). Second came 17 days overdue, thick meconium when her waters broke, baby very very distressed, tangled in cord, couldn’t push him out, ended up having a c-section which upset her greatly and still does 5 years later.

    So what is she doing this time round. Home.Birth. Even found a midwife to support her…..

    Shall add they also don’t vaccinate and the whole family is just recovering from whooping cough. I kid not. Thankfully just in time for his new baby to arrive….

    I’m sure it’ll all work out. She is a dear dear friend but just drives me to distraction and beyond. Dinner tonight (vegan soup of course) will be lovely, but man, I’ll be biting my tongue!!!!!!

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    • Poppy

      “Away”, You are a great friend. Both love and friendship do not judge. I have two very good friends who both chose different paths with their pregnancies.
      Despite friend A not being judgemental, friend B feels as if she is constantly being judged because friend A has made different choices for herself and her two daughters. Women need the support of friends and other women. Judgement and name calling gets us nowhere accept for making a lot of enemies. The rule I work with in my line of work is woman-centredness. This doesn’t mean agreeing with all her life choices. It is a practice that affirms her being.

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      • Bemused

        Actually, to me she doesn’t sound like a great friend. Away sounds incredibly judgemental. I’m not sure I like her “friend’s” choices either – but I couldn’t be “friends” with someone I so clearly disrespected. I’d just make an excuse not to visit and eat her “vegan soup of course”. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

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        • Poppy

          Bemused, perhaps “Away” was coming across a little more judgmental behind her friend’s back. Maybe she needed to vent. It happens. I have a friend who still talks about her ex-fiance from 3 years ago. I love her dearly, but occasionally I feel I need to have a bit of a groan.

          It is not our business what our friends chose to do. My friends make all sorts of choices I would not make myself, but I love them for who they are and how we are when we are together.

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          • Away

            What is the ‘Judging’ thing all about…. seems, as soon as you disagree with someone else’s you are ‘judging’ them? Whatever… I’m sharing a story about someone I know who WRT this article is a bridezilla. Can I disagree without ‘judging’?

            I tell you what though – I’ll ‘judge’ the lack of vaccinating – as that is affecting other people.

            As for the vegan soup – well, that is what it will be for dinner… is that judgy?

            Anyway, I’ve known her for over 30 years…I’ll ‘judge’ away to my hearts content. We’ll also talk about her choices and I’ll tell her why I wouldn’t do it that way. But really, it is up to her!!!

            Personally, I think the choices she makes are reckless and selfish and about *her* needs, not the baby.

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  20. caseymc

    I was initially disappointed when I was told my baby needed to be delivered by c-section last year. But one look at her when she was born, and how she came to be in this world didn’t matter one little bit – she was here, gorgeous, perfectly healthy, and my health was fighting fit as well (we also had no troubles with bonding/feeding/healing, which a lot of anti-c-section people had said I would). The thought that I could have jeopardized my baby’s health had I cared too much about becoming a member of “the sisterhood of pain” and persevering with a natural delivery makes me feel ill. My dad has a great saying about childbirth: “they don’t hand out medals for bravery in the delivery room”.

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  21. Me

    I love this post, Mia. Thank you.

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  22. Fiona

    How lucky Australian’s are to have the ability to make birth plans/birth preferences and have hospital/government support to do so. After giving birth in Australia at the RBWH and having so many options available to me to allow for a healthy delivery and to be healthy myself, I am horrified after having moved to Italy that here it is completely different. Some hospitals do not have an epi available – so either natural or emergency c-section, some will only provide an epi if you have done the “pre-eduction course for epi’s”, some you pay 1000euro for the epi in a govt hospital, some don’t let support partners in.
    How can any of this be best for mum or bub when the hospitals don’t even offer a variety of services to best deliever bub and keeping mum safe too?

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    • Rudge

      I agree that sounds appalling. There are, unfortunately, plenty of stories in Australia of women being denied epidurals because the anaesthetist was unavailable. In my hospital that was the norm rather than the exception. What makes it worse is that many women naively go into labour exoecting that they will have this option and then when they are at their most vulnerable have it denied.

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    • poppy

      That is interesting. Last time I looked at the stats Italy had the highest C-section rate. The story you have shared goes some way to explaining why this might be. Caesareans are life saving medical procedures and thank goodness in most places in Australia there are obs to perform them.

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  23. Poppy

    Enough with the ‘women who choose different options than you’ hate.
    Be better than that!

    Mia, you’re so right: being a feminist doesn’t mean you have to agree with everyone who happens to have a vagina. But, I’m pretty sure that being a feminist means you respect their right to choose (hmmm, does that sound familiar?) their own reproductive experience/method/plan.

    I had you pegged as a comfortable in your own skin, confident sort of person who would truly own her choices and be happy about them. But I’m beginning to think I was wrong. How else to explain the distress you seem to feel at others’ choices with their ‘smugness and superiority’?

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  24. ameliastclair

    I can’t believe how nasty some of the comments are! Aw gee.

    My opinion – as long as the mum and bub are supported medically and emotionally (and make it out alive and well!) the rest is not my business! There’s no place for smugness, bullying and name calling, it’s silly. There’s no ‘points system’. We’re all grown ups :)

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  25. Rita

    I…I think I love you. You perfectly summed up my thoughts and feelings on this. Homebirth has a 3x greater risk of fetal demise…how can anyone say they’re thinking of the baby when they choose it?

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    • Mieka

      Don’t really care about the article, but please note that a planned homebirth is as safe as a planned hospital birth with a qualified midwife in attendance for low risk pregnancies. There is a whack of research to support this. There are actually many risks associated with the hospital that are not spoken of.

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  26. MonaLS

    Bravo Mia! Birth choices should be all about the health and wellbeing of infant and mother.

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    • Jo

      Yes. The health and wellbeing of the infant and mother. That being the primary concern of women who want positive births that neither damage them or their child.

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      • Mia

        Hi Jo – I’m keen to understand your definition of “positive” birth because that would mean there are “negative” births? How do they go?

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        • Anonymous

          They go a bit like my first. 8 years later I’m still having bladder problems from the damage done by forceps. 6 months after the birth I started taking anti-depressants because I wasn’t able to get over it on my own. I was induced and had contractions coming one on top of the other but no-one noticed because I was alone in the room, the midwife put the drip in and then left to do something else. The baby ended up distressed and I was told he would need to be taken to the special care nursery. I had an episiotomy without any pain relief, without even being told it was about to happen.
          The baby did end up ok, after a few days. The first couple of days were pretty awful though.
          Other things upset me too, like the midwives joking that forceps are like having salad tongs shoved in your vagina. I know they were trying to lighten the mood but I was scared and upset and it didn’t help. Overall it was a negative experience. It worked, the baby got out alive but I would not call it a positive experience.
          On the other hand with my second baby I spent months reading up on birth so I would be able to understand what was happening to me and it helped. I was calmer and less frightened and had some idea of what I wanted to do (avoid an epidural, stand rather than lying down) and it helped. I also read up on caesars in case I ended up needing one. I find it easier to stay calm if I have some idea of what is going on.

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          • Esther

            That was me, sorry.

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          • Mum of 3

            Wow – reading this I have had two “negative birth experiences” and didn’t even realise. I thought they were positive because in the end I have two beautiful, happy healthy girls. Yes I have bladder problems from the delivery (even 8 years after the event), but a little bladder leaking is worth it when I see her smile.

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            • Esther

              Thank you for belittling the way I feel Mum of 3, it helps. Next time I wet my pants in public I’ll think of my children and be happy!
              And I suppose the time my son spent in Special Care doesn’t matter either because he ended up ok in the end? Who cares if he came close to dying, it doesn’t matter!
              I’ll just shut up like a good girl and be glad he lived at all.

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            • Esther

              Oh and it’s not “a little bladder leakage” it’s full puddles on the footpath. It’s happened a few times, if I laugh or run, it once happened when I got a fright (that time was particularly fun, it happened in the middle of a busy street while I was talking to 2 people).

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        • Shannon

          I would imagine that negative birth would be one which impacts negatively on the mother’s psyche. Not by disappointed hopes, but by feeling out of control, scared and helpless, etc. Sure, I bet they’re happy when their child is alive and well, but that still doesn’t make it a positive experience, just a positive outcome from a negative experience.

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          • Anon

            A positive birth = live and healthy baby.and mother

            Negative birth = Death of baby and/or mother.

            It ain’t rocket science.

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            • Poppy

              Positive and negative experiences are subjective. I think the only person to quantify this is the mother. If I have a pain free birth this might be a positive birth experience. If I have a birth using hypnobirthing in a birth centre with a midwife then that also could be positive.

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            • Anonymous

              There is so much more to it than that.

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        • Anonymous

          Wow. Smug and condescending much Mia?

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          • Sam

            I personally saw Mias question above as honestly asking what the perceived difference was between a positive birth and a negative birth experience. Having met women who have had horrific experiences, I have to say that a negative birth experience can be more than just involving the death or mother or baby. There are cases of permanent physical damage to mother or baby, there are cases of mental damage to the mother, and in cases where people have mentioned scenarios above, it looks like there are just some plain ignorant midwives and doctors who don’t seem to think about what the woman is experiencing at what is often a traumatic time.

            Ironically, my first experience I would call a positive experience on the whole, despite the fact that my child was stillborn. No, it wasn’t positive because he was stillborn. However, the hospital staff were supportive the whole way through the delivery.

            My only negative experience arising from that hospital visit was actually the counsellor. I made sure after less than half an hour with her that she would have nothing to do with us for the rest of our time at the hospital (we found out the baby had died before delivering, and I needed to be at the hospital overnight so they could induce)

            Everyone has their own beliefs, and while I respect that she may believe that the best way to get over the death of your child is to take the body home and take photos in the nursery, then take the body on holiday, taking photos at various holiday spots… i personally found it abhorrant.

            The fact that I wasn’t breaking down on the spot also had the same woman openly stating that she believed that we killed the baby deliberately, and she had the gall to state that because he was “only the father”, my husband couldn’t feel the loss of our child, and thus wouldn’t be affected by his death.

            If the hospital had been filled with other staff like that woman, then it truly would have been a negative experience. I am glad I had the common sense to ensure that she went as far away from us as posible, and that we wouldn’t even have to see her again.

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            • hms

              Sam, wow, just wow. I hope the hospital followed up with her. Totally unprofessional and goes against everything a counsellor should do.

              Very sorry for the loss of your little one.

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            • Sam

              Thanks hms,

              It made subsequent pregnancies more challenging, because I would get so stressed the closer I got to the due date. Thankfully, I now have three growing boys who keep me in my toes LOL

              I have no idea on what happened with the counsellor long term. I was busy coping, as because of the rime of year, every support agency available was closed fornthe holidays. At least it helped my figure out how to get back on my own two feet :)

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  27. Courtney

    This article is a prime example of pure stupidity and ignorance.
    I am nearly registered as a midwife, and I can tell you that just because you have had a couple of babies, does not make you an expert in the safety or the science of birth. The women that have very strong ideas about what kind of birth they would like, often do need to relax their ideas to allow for adaptation if things do not unfold as expected, but they are not the hippy, selfish or crazy women the public think that they are – they more often than not, opt to go through pregnancy, labour and birth in a very simple manner, so simple that it frightens our culture and the generally uneducated population. They do not feel that they need anesthetists, and you know what GOOD ON THEM, because it is not driven by “the experience being nice”, it is generally to respect their bodies and their babies and to birth in a manner that allows their baby and themself to progress through the normal, natural hormonal changes that occur immediately following birth and to give the best shot to bonding and breastfeeding. They are not crazy, they are in fact saving the government and hospital system money, because you know what – these women that book their elective c-sections because they merely “do not want to go through all that” are the problem, not the women who choose to be informed about their options for their placenta delivery! Read the evidence and get your opinions off such a public forum! People are too ignorant and unaware to be exposed to this kind of crap – it only adds to the problem!

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    • Mum of two

      Oh dear. You remind me of the midwife who came into my room after I had a caesarean to deliver my extended breech baby, looked at my son and told me I could have delivered him naturally because he was only six pounds. Oh yeah, I took the easy way out because I chose not to put my first child’s life at risk so deserved to be treated like that…..

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      • Poppy

        Midwives are human, just like you, they can say some things that can be less than helpful. She may have thought it helpful, but you didn’t interpret that way.

        The fact of the matter is that the caesarean rate in this country needs to be brought down. Blaming women who have them, pointing the finger or taking personal offence to every person who mentions the rate needs to be reduced is not helpful.

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    • MonaLS

      If they aren’t endangering themselves and their babies, more power to them. However seeing blog after blog about home birthed abies that are born blue or gray, unresponsive or limp, there are quite a few that don’t seem to mind endangering their babies for the all natural experience.

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    • Jo

      Thank you, Courtney.

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    • Something from nothing

      So let me get this straight, Courtney. We should all respect a womans right to choose natural childbirth, but not support a woman’s right to choose to deliver by caesarean. Her choice isn’t valid because it doesn’t match your ideology? Wow.

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      • Whitney M

        How about looking at WHY a woman chooses caesarian, if it’s not medically required, and address those fears and where they came from (past experience or horror stories etc)

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    • Hmmm

      Oh dear, another militant midwife in the making.

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    • Halle

      Just because you are a midwife, that does not make you an expert on the science and safety of birth.

      I wonder why midwives are indoctrinated to be militantly anti-intervention? Oh, yeah, because it costs the government far less if fewer women elect intervention.

      When my twins are born next month, I will be attended to by an obstetrician. My husband, in fact. During my elective caesarean at a private hospital.

      I am not “the problem”. Get over yourself.

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      • HB MIdwife

        You are the problem if you are going to continuously belittle the training, knowledge, skills and experience of midwives. In order to have the best maternity care in Australia we need collaborative care. Most obstetricians I work with are supportive and respectful. We need each other and so do women. Hierarchal systems do not help anyone.

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  28. Mum of four

    Great piece Mia. I’m so sick of the preoccupation with the pregnancy and infancy of children. My kids range from 14 to 4 months and who attended the births, where the births occurred,what position I delivered in, the kind of drugs I had, how long I breastfed each one etc etc has not made one ounce of difference to the happy little people they have become.

    The day to day business of living is where the real magic happens!

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  29. Bryter Later

    I wonder how the woman at the BBQ feels knowing she became the opening anecdote for such a divisive column?

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    • Rita

      You put your business out there and people will talk about it.

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    • Something from nothing

      Why give that a seconds thought? Anyone who would ask a complete stranger at a BBQ what her birth plan for her placenta was, is a bit of a nutter, or at the very least, completely socially inappropriate. Don’t be so uptight, for Pete’s sake! That’s way too easy to make fun of. Lighten up !

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  30. Amy Tuteur, MD

    Brilliant!!!

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    • Anonymous

      LOL, you know you’re onto a winner when Amy Tuteur approves! Thumbs up, Mia! *insert sarcasm here*

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  31. Marijana

    Hm after reading some of the responses and wondering if I didn’t get Mia’s point because I agree with her, I thought I’ll just read the column again and also read the update and I got your point Mia, still agree and I don’t understand why soo many women are so upset and in a rage about this column!

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    • Jo

      Because it’s insulting, offensive and fails to recognise any of the researched and valid points of the kind of woman she’s calling names.

      There’s also a distinct lack of statistical support to back up her points – many studies on homebirth for low risk births show quite a different outcome – to only cite the Australian cases of high risk pregnancies where hb was not advised is shooting fish in a barrel.

      When you read the proliferation of birth stories by traumatised women (often women with fairly traumatised babies as well) and then you read home birth stories from happy, elated, yes, empowered mothers with calm, undrugged babies, you see a very different story to this ‘birthzilla’ crap. Revolting.

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      • Mia

        Hi Jo – calling the babies of mothers who choose pain relief “drugged”? Nice.

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        • Faybian

          Mia, it can happen. Drugs do cross the placenta, particularly pethidine. My oldest was born “drugged” and required narcan to “wake her up”. As a result, I made a conscious choice not to have pethidine again.

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        • oliveblanche

          Hi Mia, I read and reread this to try and see where people were taking offense….I failed! They clearly haven’t read it closely enough and have just responded to your joke about birth plans. Yikes! Don’t worry and don’t take it on board because I’m sure there are a lot of ppl reading who agree with what you have said.

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        • Comadrona

          …and accurate. There is plenty of research which points to drugs in labour as being instrumental in baby’s poor Apgars, lack of alertness, respiratory distress (in association with Caesareans) and poor breast feeding.

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        • Flea

          Yes Mia, drugged. Opiates cross the placenta and babies of mothers who use them during labour are born with opiates in their bloodstream. If they’re given in the final few hours before birth, these babies are often born “floppy”, or with respiratory distress.

          By definition, they are drugged. I’m sorry if that offends you, it’s fact.

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  32. Amandarose

    I just read Mia’s update. The point most people are offended with is the tone of the article. It comes across as smug and Derides people who feel differently to you.
    The first half the article was funny and I do get how sanctimonious people banging on with and air of superiority is annoying. I get how birth plans may not be valid once birth starts.

    But you lost me due to the mocking tone of the article. A few sentence changes and it wouldn’t have come across so bitchy.

    reading it it feels as if your telling everyone who wants a birth plan or a water birth is a stupid sod with a selfish attitude and is some how less.

    You can say you don’t get it without the mean feel to it

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    • Jo

      But I don’t think that was the point. The point was to deride and judge, belittle and blame.

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      • oliveblanche

        It is impossible for you to know the writers intentions because you are not the writer. You can’t just go around stating someone’s intentions or saying that they have done something. Not only is it nasty and rude but it’s slander! I’m massively offended by your comment! I absolutely hate it when people accuse someone of doing of saying something or having certain intentions when there is absolutely NO WAY they could know!

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        • Clara

          In my opinion, being unable to understand a writers intention (especially a writer of national prominence) is the mark of a bad writer. If you’re going to write an article that thousands of people are going to read, you shouldn’t be offended if people ‘misinterpret’ it. If people read it wrongly, then you’ve written it wrongly.

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          • oliveblanche

            There is a massive difference between interpreting something wrongly and assuming someone had certain intentions and what Jo did which was accuse Mia of writing the article to deride, judge, belittle and blame. Jo is not misinterpreting the article she is outright slandering the writer and accusing Mia of writing it with the intention to cause her readers emotional pain. If you read through the comments and read Jo s comments you can see they are unfounded and take the disagreement to a whole new level. She is accusing Mia of an action which I do not believe she has taken and that is slander and THAT is what upsets and offends me!

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            • Clara

              I do see your point oliveblanche, but it’s difficult to agree that Mia wrote this simply as a gentle musing of her own thoughts. The tone is patronising (“tried not to stab myself with a sausage), the language is blunt (“this term won’t win me any friends”), there’s perpetuation of stereotypes (“more interested in having a birth experience than a baby”) – if they’re not and attempt to be deliberately provocative and cause inevitable conflict, then what are they?

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          • Tracey Groombridge

            well said Clara

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    • Bel

      Agree.

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  33. Jan

    Birth plan? I just wanted to come home from hospital with a healthy baby. I managed that twice (should I be ashamed to admit that both times I had c section? Nah…it was for the health of the babies). Anyway my ” plan” worked and I am the proud Mum of two healthy adults. I assume the placenta was thrown out…..do these birthzillas keep their bub’s first pooey nappy?

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    • Sam

      I personally have no problems with your needing to have c-sections. If you have an emergency c-section for one birth, any subsequent ones are more likely to require one also. However, while I do feel that your nappy comment is a little inappropriate… It reminded my of the experience my husband had with our oldest boys first nappy change. It was dark, and he didn’t want to turn the lights on so as to not disturb my rest… He spent some minutes scrubbing our sons bottom to clean it before realising that dark spot that just wouldn’t budge was a birth mark, not a messy rear end!

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  34. Anon

    Of my 4 children, 1 died and no-one could do a damn thing about it, two would have died, with their mother, due to mistakes by midwives (both were saved by obstetricians), and one had a perfect, text book vaginal birth.

    Go figure.

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  35. Kit

    I love that Mia finishes that article with “I’d rather tell you about my kids” because I seem to remember a previous article where she proclaimed she’d rather play with her iPod then play with her kids.

    Tara Moss’ answer to this tripe was fabulous and I recommend everyone read it.

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  36. Anon

    “please let my baby and I survive”

    You mean “please let my baby and me survive”

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  37. 41 Baby Project

    I cheered when I read this article in the newspaper today. SOOOO over women who think that birthing is a competitive sport.

    Does it matter how baby was born? Really? In the broader scheme of things?

    Just get the baby out in the safest, most caring way possible, I say – it’s baby’s WHOLE LIFE that’s important, not how she/he was born!

    For heaven’s sake, birthzillas, focus your energies on what comes AFTER the birth!

    If you were having, let’s say, heart surgery – would you go “I’m going to do this without any drugs at all, just to prove how strong and powerful I am?”

    No, of course you wouldn’t.

    And remember, back in the days of wholly natural birth – the 1700s, 1800s etc – about 15-20% of women died during childbirth. You had a 1 in 9 (probably more) percent chance of dying in childbirth with each baby!!

    Give me modern birth methods any day…

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    • Anon

      1 in 9 chance would be 11%. 20% would be 1 in 5. I’m pretty sure it’s not ever been that high, or women would be almost guaranteed to die giving birth to their 5th baby.

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      • Beatrix

        “almost guaranteed to die giving birth to their fifth baby” Lol…I don’t think you understand statistical probability.

        Also I believe what the commenter was saying that each WOMAN had a 15-20% probability of dying in childbirth. Each BIRTH carried a 1 in 9 risk of dying. The more births the higher the probabilty of death during birthing.

        No idea if those stats are true. Just hate to see stats misunderstood.

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    • Anonymous

      Straight out rubbish – I’m an historian, and I have a particular interest in this area – those statistics are simply made up. Women had around a 1/100 chance of dying in childbirth in the 18th century (and previously, my actual area of expertise is medieval, but those stats remained largely unchanged for a long, long time); that’s a 1 in 100 chance (in each pregnancy), not a 1 in 9 chance.

      As a side note, they also had a much higher chance of dying of an infectious disease while pregnant (being pregnant alters your immune system), to the point where if a pregnant woman died in various parts of Italy during the 18th century, it was *assumed* to be of the plague unless there was evidence to the contrary.

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  38. Guest

    Lighten up people.
    All Mia is saying is that some people have unrealistic expectations about giving birth and are pushy about sharing their view.
    We see this everywhere in our pampered first world lives where many people expect to have the best of everything and then brag about it/judge others who have not been so fortunate. Childbirth is no exception but clinging to unrealistic expectations sometimes puts lives or the mental health of the mother at risk when things go awry.

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  39. EmC

    I think birth plans are designed to prepare you for the first lesson in parenthood- it’s irrelevant what you want that baby controls everything!!

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    • Jo

      No. Birth plans are there to show your care providers what your preferences are. If you need to make changes to that, you will in the course of the labour. Why should our choices not be respected? We pay for the service. We have choice – in the face of emergency, we go with what will be best for us in the circumstances, hopefully guided by a professional we trust and respect, who respects us.

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  40. Gemack

    I have read a lot of these comments, and I have to say I tend to agree with those who think this article comes across quite judgmental.

    I am sure it was not Mia’s intention, but to be honest how you think it reads is not any more important than how it reads to others – and the volume of comments who feel it is hurtful would suggest that it is actually offensive to many women. Many very reasonable, logical people.

    It reminds me of when people of European descent in Australia make racist jokes and then say “it was just a joke”. It is not up to that person to decide if it offensive, it is up to person who is the subject of it to decide how they feel.

    I think the type of woman you are talking about is in such tiny minority that it doesn’t warrant a column. It was bound to upset some people, and I don’t think that was necessary.

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  41. Megs

    At 661 comments so far, I am bewildered.

    As an opinion writer, Mia does just that, she writes authentically and passionately about issues from her perspective.

    Humans by nature have opinions and judgements, they may be confronting and challenging to some, but its the way we deal with the mix of opinions that is important. It is impossible to be objective, but at least respect the difference in opinions around.

    Just because it’s different doesn’t make it wrong.

    I personally think it is courageous to post your personal views in such a public forum, expsoing yourself to criticism: not many people have the guts to share their honest (and sometimes this may mean hurtful) opinions with the nation. Respect.

    :)

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    • Anon

      I disagree. Having an opinion on a trivial matter is one thing. In fact, having an opinion is one thing. Having an opinion and then expressing it in public in a way that leads to serious offence or worse, might lead women to go against what makes them feel comfortable giving birth and possible cause anxiety etc, is an entirely different thing.

      This is the same mentality that leads people like Andrew Bolt to racially vilify people and then claim “but its my opinion”. Your right to your opinion DOES NOT overthrow other people’s right to be happy and safe and not discriminated against.

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      • Anon

        It also allows those who hate Bolt to say that he should be hunted down and killed. Apparently that’s ok if you disagree with him.

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        • Anon

          That is definitely not what I said or implied.

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        • Poppy

          Opinion writers have place. That is to put forward and OPINION and sell papers. The reaction to this article and similar reactions to Andrew Bolt and Miranda Devine are the reason they are employed. Unfortunately a paper or a website that presented pregnancy, labour, birth and prenatal care options by someone who holds a Masters or PhD wouldn’t get the clicks or sell the paper. I believe that is what women desire. A site where a run down of what is in the different formulas on the market or a list of lactation consultants around the country (just to name a few ideas). At the very least a site run by researchers in the field who are able to present the latest research in an easily digestible format. Journalists are not research qualified and often the research they chose to report on are the ones that get the best reader response.

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  42. Anda

    This article rocks! Thanks for posting / writing and putting birth back into perspective. What matters is having a healthy child and a healthy mom. Everything else is secondary (if that ^_~)

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  43. Catwoman

    It has been pretty quiet lately on mamamia so I guess something had to bring the stats back up. Well done, I just wish it didn’t have to be at the expense of other people.

    I came to this site because I thought it welcomed diversity. I know everyone didn’t agree with each other but at least we could talk about it civilly and respect that some people live their lives different to us. We even have dinner party rules for goodness sake. But I think this article doesn’t even follow the dinner party rules. Can you imagine a woman talking about her birth to a friend, as friends do, you know to share experiences, only to be judged and called names?

    Mia, you go on and on about being a feminist, and in your update you say you don’t have to agree with or support every woman on earth but no one is asking you to. We’re just asking you to respect other women’s decisions they make about their life. Respect and move along. Surely a basic concept in feminism?! I don’t think a feminist can be so judgmental about other women, just because those women do something different to them.

    Also, I’m getting tired of the bullying that happens on this site when you mention anything different to modern medicine. Some people like doing things differently and are usually aware of the risks. Respect them and move on and keep living your life, as they will theirs. I expected more of people, especially readers on mamamia who seemed pretty open minded, but not any more. Now I see anyone who tries to do anything different, especially when it comes to birth, is attacked and called names, usually by a number of readers at once.

    I’m not a mum so I cant speak from personal experience about anything birth related, but I am so sick of all the mums attacking each other about anything, including this article! I’ll be sure to keep quiet when i am a mum in case someone disagrees with me and I get judged and attacked.

    I know nobody cares and it won’t make a difference to mamamia but I just want to say my perspective of this site has changed due to the judgmental articles that have been posted lately and the bad feeling I get when leaving this site – for e.g. so if I think a, b, c I must be weird, selfish, stupid, have no fashion sense, be a bad wife, or what ever else is the topic at hand?

    I’m a Muslim woman and I wear the head/face veil so I’m no stranger to being seen as different/weird/what ever. I first came to mamamia when I was sent a link to an article about niqab. I started browsing and found more interesting articles. And I liked how on different topics, it was ok that we did things differently it was interesting to share our experiences. I also admired the genuine workers on mamamia and thought if only everyone in the media was so nice and caring/accepting. Especially when mia or another writer would defend someone that was wrongfully being attacked in the media (chrissie swan, yumi, delta, etc.). But then I see an article like this (and others) that are so judgmental and bully-like. Also some articles lately have been so sensationalised I feel tricked into reading them only to realise afterwards it wasn’t even worth the time due to the lack of facts and usually based strongly on emotion/opinion that is not even researched before being formed. Yes I know what an opinion article is but you should get all the facts before forming an opinion, especially when you are about to publish that opinion for all to see.

    I don’t think I’ll be reading as much of mamamia anymore. Yes boo hoo I’m not asking for a violin to play in the background and I know it doesn’t make a difference and no one cares, but I want to say that because like being judgmental and plain old mean can lose you friends in real life, when you have a website that thrives on discussion posts which is similar to real life gatherings/discussions, being judgemental and mean will lose you readers. So unfortunately mamamia won’t be on my top rated sites any more.

    Happy life to everyone who agrees with all the writers on mamamia about every topic because it seems you will be left here agreeing with each other on everything. Everyone else, stay and get attacked but I recommend not wasting your time and/or your feelings getting hurt if you’re a little sensitive!

    Peace

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    • Amandarose

      I agree about the very judgy tone to many articles the last 6 months. I especially hate the medical/health related topics as this is not a forum for offering balanced advice on vaccines, birth etc. And when they are presented as news it really annoys me. And it is not like I even disagree with her points but I find the tone forceful.

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      • Jules

        Same, as a researcher/ academic I have given up trying to present research on this site. It is not welcomed. It accepted as just another opinion. This is clearly an opinion site where the authors state opinions, are met with commenters with either the same or differing opinions and for the most part no one, commenters especially, are interested in ‘listening’. I can understand why academics give up speaking to the media. On another note, https://theconversation.edu.au/pages/health is a great place to read current research put out by Australian academics and it is easy to read for the layperson. Although one must remember that researchers work within an academic community and research rarely stands alone. It is part of a conversation in the field.

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    • Anonymous

      Mamamia is not the place it was 6-12 months ago. Many regular commenters have disappeared – reasons being that they get jumped on for saying just about anything at all.

      Disappointing, but this is what happens when you need more clicks for advertising.

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    • Melsie

      So well put. I feel the same.

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  44. Iris

    The concept of a ‘birth plan’ is very much a Western idea, agreed. And some people go a little overboard in the planning part, which does sort of fly in the face of something so very unpredictable. Agreed.

    But I can’t help but pick apart some bits of this article:

    “It’s birth as identity and it’s odd.”
    Not necessarily an identity. Some women may have used this sort of signature as examples of how non-hospital births have been successful. I have a feeling that these women don’t introduce themselves that way at dinner parties or in job interviews.

    “Some women see their birth experience as a platform for smugness and superiority.”
    I don’t doubt this. Some people are really competitive, even when there is no competition actually happening.

    But there are also people who genuinely want to share their positive birth experiences. To show that there is such a massive variety of birth experiences, and not all of it bad/scary/painful/traumatic. After my bub was born (fairly straightforward, no intervention), I received the most lovely card from my aunt, a nurse who worked as a midwife in Botwana and had two of her own children there. She said (paraphrasing) “Well done. And even though the memory of the birth is probably already beginning to fade, don’t forget to let others know about it. Help spread the good stories!”

    And if anyone ever asks me about it.. dang it, I will :-)

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    • Sam

      Nicely put.

      I know that my experiences were mostly the non-scary kind. However, I have had women actually get angry at me for telling them about those experiences, so I have learned to be a heck of a lot more circumspect. The only reason for their getting angry that I could think of was because my experiences were a lot easier than the norm. Apparently the only stories they wanted to hear about were the bad ones.

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      • Iris

        Thanks Sam :-)

        That sucks that people got angry at you! And not that surprising, sadly – some people just seem to react negatively to anything and everything. That’s their issue, though..

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    • Anna

      It is often thrust forward as identity though – not necessarily for the mother but for the CHILD. I have met countless mothers who introduce their children or label all ther photo albums as “this is Emma, born at home!”

      No way did my mum ever introduce me to anyone as “Rachel born by c section”

      It’s weird and WRONG to create your child’s identify for them based around a political or lifestyle thing they had no CHOICE in and probably weren’t even aware of!!

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  45. Anonymous

    My OB had no problem with us having a birth plan, but he suggested calling it “birth preferences” as we have no real control over what the baby is going to do during birth. He felt if I was too rigid in my expectations of what was going to happen in the birth and it didn’t go the way I wanted for whatever reason, I could end up very upset, possibly with PND.

    Worked for us – I felt like I had more of a say in what was going to happen, and he knew what we ideally wanted. In the end I had a red hot go with my preferences respected by him and the midwives, but bub decided to get well and truly stuck and we ended up with an emergency c-section. No upset on my part – a healthy baby is all that mattered :)

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  46. guest

    I think most birth plans are purely to give mummy bloggers some blog fodder

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    • Jo

      No, that’s wrong. Untrue. Ignorant. Unfounded. No. How dare you, to be honest. I’m stunned by this comment.

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      • guest

        Lighten up It was said tounge in cheek. Mia is not the messiah I am surprised with how shocked some people are with her article yet no one is shocked that she was eating sausages, really sausages, they are just gross.

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        • Flea

          I found it more shocking that she was wishing to be “impaled on a sausage”.

          Poorly chosen analogy for a piece about birth, I would’ve thought :P

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  47. Judgy Wudgy

    This article smack of nothing but judgement.

    One day, women in general, will stop judging each other. What a wonderful day that will be. Unfortunately I do not believe I will see it in my lifetime.

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  48. Ally

    Well done Mia, fab article! I think we all want to have too much control over everything now days. I am happy to put mine and my babies life in the hands of experienced and qualified professionals. I know they would do the best they can to keep us all healthy. Birth is definitely something that doesn’t like going to “best laid plans!”

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    • Alice

      Hi Ally. If you already have birthed your babies and have had a good experience, fantastic. If you haven’t yet, you might want to look at how Australia’s maternal outcomes fair with the rest of the world. You might also want to look at how to define being kept ‘healthy’. This thread would not be a 652 comment long scrag fight if your theory proved correct for everyone. Seriously, the defining factor at play here is ignorance. Women simply don’t know how there bodies work, nor how our medical system works. Ignorance breeds fear, agression and hurt. There is so much hurt on this page it’s not funny. Sincerely, wishing you all the best :)

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      • Regrets...

        By our maternal rates you mean among the top 3 in the world, I presume? I currently live in the UK and the UK falls far behind Australia, Canada etc in terms of mortality rates. It is often reported on here in the media.

        The UK is FAR more midwife/homebirth driven than the countries that have the best survival rates, like Australia. Coincidence?

        I respect anyone’s decision to birth how ever they want, but don’t peddle misconceptions about Australia’s mortality rates. It is better than most of even the developed world.

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  49. SophieBee

    Can any of you imagine the father of your child (be it husband, boyfriend, donor – whatever) getting into heated arguments about the manner in which their child was born, say, at the pub with their mates? NO. Seriously girls, move on… this thread is bitchy year 10 stuff. Laughable.

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  50. reading mamma

    what about those who choose to educate themselves and take responsibility for their birth because they know that is has a lot to do with how things will follow? C-sections = less chance of breastfeeding, breastfeeding = best option for baby- just for an example. It’s fine to be all politically correct and say women don’t HAVE to breastfeed, or aim for a natural birth, but the research is there to support these things as best option and, in my opinion, it is not ok to downplay these important factors. Birth outcomes do matter for the longterm, read the research.

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    • Guest

      Breastfeeding is best, but in first world countries it is only best by such a small margin that it really doesn’t matter. Also, C-sections have nothing to do with breastfeeding, the research is not at all there.

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    • Rita

      I’m pretty sure that it’s impossible to breastfeed a dead baby so really, the best thing to aim for would be…a healthy child and whatever it takes to make that happen.

      And birth OUTCOMES do matter. The way they’re BORN doesn’t.

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