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Crying Baby 380x380 Are the mums freaking out the non mums?

Are we freaking the non-mum’s out?

 

 

 

 

 

by KATE SELTH

I’m sorry. If you are ever thinking of having children then I owe you an apology. I’m the one you’ve heard describing my exasperating experiences raising babies and toddlers in fine, emotional detail. Actually I think it was me and every other mother ever to live.

We need to learn to filter. I think we’re freaking you non-mums out a little.

I’ve recently become aware of this issue.

It was about the time the phrase ‘paediatric chiropractor spinal realignment’ came up. My once confident and bubbly girlfriend looked at me as her hand slid slowly down to her tiny growing bump.

‘I can’t take it anymore,’ she said. ‘There’s just too much to worry about.’

My newly pregnant friend had been listening into our conversation. It was just a normal gathering of the girls for breakfast.  Those of us with kids had started bonding. Sleep loss. Sagging bodies. Vegetable refusal. Lactose intolerance and colic may have come up. We talk about regular stuff too, but our kids are a big part of our lives.

The camaraderie gives us a boost. It’s nice to know you’re not the only one going through, or who has been through, the strange and challenging early years of raising a child. Mums need support and we give it to each other.

But only about half of us at that breakfast had children. And we were exposing the rest of the girls to the inner sanctum of early parenthood. We did it often. We’ve been doing it for years.

I’d never stopped to think about the effect it was having on my non-mother friends. Whether they were single, partnered, ready to rest or not, I’m sure the rotten image we were painting was one which would stick.

So the truth had come out. We had freaked her out.

Screen shot 2012 08 31 at 11.07.39 AM Are the mums freaking out the non mums?

Do you talk like this?

It wasn’t just this conversation. It was the build-up of every piece of information from us and so many other new mothers she’d ever heard. Her bump was growing but so was her anxiety.

Instead of rejoicing in the miracle in her womb, we’d led her to fear it.

There is a lot of focus on prenatal and postnatal depression now. I think it’s important for mothers-to-be to be informed and realistic about the mini tornado about to pass through their home. They need to know life won’t exactly reflect a Huggies commercial.

Shared information is good – important, even. But how much is too much? Are how early is too early? Should we mums just be keeping our mouths shut? Should we change our tune?

Unlike the first round of women in our social circles to have babies, the second round is fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to be heading into the future with their eyes open. They have seen us first hand with bags under our eyes, spit smeared on our clothes and wiping squished banana off – well – off pretty much everything.

So how much more do they need to know? Perhaps we should keep the most menacing details to ourselves.

What good is it to be worrying about your baby’s sleep patterns before they are even born – or conceived? Or whether they will eat well before they’ve ever used their mouth? Or, god forbid, if they will need a paediatric chiropractor’s spinal realignment?

We early birthers had the chance to rejoice over what was to come. The downside was that many of us were shocked by the hard slog that followed.

pregnant 380x253 Are the mums freaking out the non mums?

Are we freaking the non-mums out?

Yes, when you suddenly go from being a pregnant woman to a mother, there are lots of gripes you will have. But there is also so much glory.

The hard bits of early motherhood are so much easier because of the glorious moments with your newborn. We do talk about those too, but maybe the scary stuff sticks more because we dwell on it.

Mums of the future need to know those positive moments carry a lot of weight.

There are the smiles, the exchanged loving glances, the finger holding, the giggling and the cuddles – oh the cuddles that can change a day, a mood, an outlook on the world.

So I’m going to tell my girlfriend about those. And I’m going to keep my mouth shut about the other mildy freaky stuff when I’m around her. There is such a thing as too much information. She, like other mums of the future, deserve some confidence. They should be allowed to leap in with their eyes at least squinted a little, if not tightly shut like ours were.

Let’s reserve our hard core ‘mum-bonding’ conversations for those who’ve already been there.

And if things go pear-shaped for our friends when their bubs arrive, we can be there to listen then and wipe the banana off their shoulder.

 Kate Selth is currently a ‘career woman without a career’ spending time raising her two tiny tots in beachy Perth. She tweets her views about babycinos, politics and the world here.

Fess up mums – are you guilty of freaking your non-mum friends out? And for the non-mums, have you ever been freaked out by horror stories about pregnancy or motherhood?

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253 Comments so far

  1. sparkle

    I can relate to this – being pregnant with my first, I’ve heard my fair share of horror birth stories, horror children stories. I think some women enjoy telling you their terrible stories and seeing what reaction they can get. Good not to be ignorant, but focussing only on the negative is depressing and pointless to worry about all the “what ifs”. The point is, noone is truly ready for kids, you jump in head first. One thing I didn’t like was the “just wait until” comments – let me enjoy the experience now.
    Being warned that our lives are never going to be the same (when we are pregnant and clearly realise that) is also not helpful. My response is – good! We are ready for our lives to change (trying for 2 years and 3 miscarriages – clearly shows we want this)

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  2. Mel b

    People have to relax, don’t over think it. When your at that without a baby/ kids, it seems like omg that’s crazy but once your there it becomes your norm.

    It’s always nice to vent to another mum but even then if you have different age Kids they can even be a bit worried.

    Before I had my boys, I dressed nice, hair perfect, coloured, cut fancy! I would hang out with my friend with her 2 kids with another on the way. We are the same age and I remember walking out of her house only after a couple of hours exhausted. Thinking whoa do ever want that!?
    Now I’m the one with three boys and another baby on the way. I’m here I love it and couldn’t imagine it any other way!!

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  3. anon

    Before becoming a parent I thought it was all horror and not for me and was quite freaked out that i was to have so much responsibility . But something I didn’t expect was the love I’d have for my kids. Loving your babies makes parenting so easy. You go thru all the hardships and confusion because you love them. So much love and joy to be had with every different baby. You don’t really see the downsides or bad days because you’re in love. I was very close to choosing a childless life and I’m ever so glad I didn’t because the love between mother and baby is something everyone should be fortunate to experience.

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  4. Flutterby

    I tried to burst a newbie Dad’s bubble about how little sleep he would get and gave him some tips to maximise bubby sleeping through. He didn’t listen. When he returned to work he curled up in the corner and moaned “no one told me….no one told me about the sleep deprivation”.

    He couldn’t get over why we were laughing. Until it happens to them, most people don’t even tune in or assume it won’t happen to them.

    The drive to have babies is unstoppable and once a woman makes up her mind, it’s on like donkey-kong!

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  5. Anonymous

    Strange. There are 149 posts on the article on sexism and it gets closed. There are 217 on this article and it’s still open?

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  6. Somewhere in between

    There’s a lot of confusion in the world about what exactly happiness is. And so it is in the realm of parenting….people think children are supposed to bring happiness into their lives, but by all standard measures, when all the standard sums of “happiness” are done…they do NOT.

    What they do bring (for most) is meaning and fulfilment. These are things most often hard won, in any context of our lives. Parenting is a JOB after all, like it or not, but most parents would agree… It’s a job worth doing.

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  7. Kate

    I’m not sure if this has been raised below, but I find one of the scariest things about becoming a mother is joining a club of people that judge, berate and criticise other members of the club for doing things slightly differently or having a different opinion on parenting. You only need to look at half the parenting articles on this website to see what I’m talking about.

    The sleepless nights, screaming children and the pain in childbirth aren’t doing much for me either. Amazingly, parenthood is still something I believe I will do in the no-so-distant future.

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    • Lorah

      Hey Kate, I became a mum 5 months ago with the same fear, but in fact I found the opposite. I’m part of 2 mothers’ groups and a Gymbaroo group… all by choice! The overwhelming support of likeminded women has been incredibly helpful at a point in life where you really need help and advice.

      In our local group, we have mums who breastfeed and mums who bottle-feed, mums who started solids early and others who will start late, etc etc. There are a variety of parenting styles but we’re all united in the fact that we’re mums who want the best for our babies and are willing to share and accept advice from each other.

      Good luck when you take the plunge, I hope you have the same experience!

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      • Kate

        If the like button was appearing I would like this comment and Jules’ below. Thanks for the nice response guys :)

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    • Jules

      Don’t worry Kate – you’ll probably find that the mothers groups and playgroups you join will be filled mostly with lovely mums who are very supportive and friendly. The judgement and criticism between mothers mainly just happens on the internet.
      Its easier to say hurtful and mean things about strangers …

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  8. Siobhan

    I think you have to strike a balance. Half my friends do have kids, half don’t. I love talking about my son but also have other things to talk about too.
    I also went through fertility treatment and when I used to hear people constantly complaining about their kids while I was going through fertility treatment desperate to have a baby it used to really upset me.

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  9. Sarah

    Ahhh children.

    Mine have given me the best of times and the worst of times. Complete joy and utter desperation.

    That is all.

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    • rivkah

      Amen, Sarah. Love it. :)

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      • Tim Tam

        Couldn’t agree more Sarah.
        Really good days and really bad days.

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  10. Anonymous

    All I can say about this post is mums dont rant to your non mum friends about your kids all the time, yes they may be cute but non mums get bored hearing about their every move. Yes I am a mother of 2 but would never have my children as my whole focus on a conversation. Your kids are beautiful to you. End of story.

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    • Torstar

      Hear hear! There are a million things you can do with your life and having children is but one of them. As much as I would love to talk endlessly about my incredible travel stories or the peace and quiet in our home I don’t. Not everyone is blessed with children but it doesn’t mean our lives are any less valuable.

      I also find the term “non mothers” really offensive. You are either a mother or you aren’t. I am not childLESS, I am childFree and I’m simply not a mother. End of story.

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      • Katstar

        Non-mothers was obviously used as a term because it fit in with the story, not to summarise a person’s whole being and whole self. If someone said you were a brunette or a non-brunette would you be offended? Just take the tory for what it is and don’t read so much into everything.

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  11. Ram

    Hi mamamia team, I think my comment went straight to spam? Can you please retrieve it?
    Thank you :-)

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  12. catwoman

    NO! Your gorgeous baby is making me even more clucky and I wish I had one of my own. People’s horror stories don’t phase me because everyone is different and you can’t possibly predict what your pregnancy, birth or child will be like. So it’s all a gamble I can’t wait to take.

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  13. Sarah

    It’s hard being a mum. It’s hard not being a mum. Find your own way beyond sites like Mamamia and beyond your friends experiences. Make it your experience warts and all.

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  14. clarinette

    I’m sorry but I don’t agree with the fact that we should keep it to ourselves. I know you mentioned it by the way, so i’m not “disagreeing with YOU” in particular, just with the notion that sharing the hard part isn’t the right thing to do. it’s a recent thing, this sharing, it’s new, people never used to tell young girls anything about what giving birth was like, what raising a baby was like, they painted pictures of fairies and rainbows and obviously, new mothers were in shock after the birthing experience, shamed into shutting the heck up about it, and had to smile in front of society to hide the symptoms of PND. Times have changed, thankfully. There needs to be a shift in mentalities now, where we grieve for this rainbow/fairy motherhood bull correctly and bury it in the ground where it belongs.
    Motherhood is a HUMAN experience, it’s good and it’s hard, it’s physical and emotional, it’s very powerful and it is a good thing to be prepared for it beforehand. Just like we now tell young girls about periods and sex BEFORE they happen to them, we need to do the same about motherhood and what it entails, the good and the bad, forewarned is forearmed.

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  15. Cordeline

    You know what I think?

    I think that the general attack on mothers on this site is pretty sad.

    I also think that it is not a new phenomenon, this thing about mums freaking out the non-mums, oh and ‘boring them to death’ as so many have nicely put it.

    This would have been going on for many many years. It’s just that these days, with access to so much information so quickly and so many groups (like the MM community) who don’t even know each other and yet ‘chat’ to each other daily, there is just possibly an overload of information too often.

    Most of my friends had babies way way before me. During their pregnancy stages I heard words like ‘episiotomy’ and god knows what else that, when I asked about, totally turned me off having a baby. And then when their babies arrived, I loved watching them grow as mums and see their babies change. I really honestly did. And sure, there were (many) times when the whole mum-baby-talk thing got too much for me. But it was only because I couldn’t relate. So you know what I did when it became overbearing? I did other stuff. Saw other people. I didn’t drop those friends who had become mums, I didn’t stop loving them and their kids, I just recognised that we were at completely different life stages. And that if I wanted my friendships to continue with them (which I did), then I simply had to let them get on with their stage of life, and continue to enjoy my own. Each of us supporting the other any way we could. Babysitting duties – you bet. A shoulder to cry on from a broken heart or a tough time at work – of course, I’m there for you.

    And now, I have kids of my own. And even though I’m a parent now, like those friends who had kids years before me, we are STILL at very different life stages. Their parenting experiences right now are totally different to mine because of the ages of our kids. But guess what? WE ARE STILL FRIENDS! When we catch up, we of course ask about each other’s families, but after quickly covering all that off, we move onto other, more interesting topics of conversation.

    Honestly, I really don’t understand why so many of the comments here from women who are not mothers are so angry. And mostly how generalised their statements are. That mothers as a collective, group are all so dull, boring and miserable. It upsets me greatly to be honest.

    If the mothers commenting on this site were as brutal with their remarks to non-mothers about their lives, they would be hauled over the hot coals. But it seems fine for it go the other way around.

    I’m not just a mum. I’m a wife, I have a social life with other adults, I work (albeit from home), I go to the gym, I go on holidays. But yes, my kids do take up most of my time. They are the major component of my life at the moment. That’s because they are dependent on me. So yeah, I do talk about them, I do feel buggered often, they challenge me daily, they have changed my life in ways I could have never foreseen. And yet I love them so deeply and unconditionally that even those words will not ever express how I feel about these little people that have come into my life and changed me. Forever.

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    • Kerr

      I liked reading that.

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    • Jil

      I don’t think it was an attatck on mothers, just maybe think about what you say around the people you know who don’t have kids. Seems like a nice idea to me that we should be thoughtful of others?

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      • Cordeline

        Of course think about what you say around others. That goes with any subject matter for me. I go too far most of the time trying to be socially-correct (if that’s even a term!) about not wanting to talk to certain people about certain subjects.

        Just to clarify, it’s not this article that is an attack, but that many of the comments on this site are quite attacking toward mums.That’s how I feel anyway.

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        • Lizi

          Actually, so do I. And I’m not a mother, either!

          Defensiveness to the point of rudeness is tiresome, no matter where you’re coming from.

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      • Cordeline

        I also wanted to add to my comment and your response of ‘seems like a nice idea to me that we should be thought of others’… this is pretty much what I meant but in the reverse scenario to what you are talking about. ‘You are boring us to death’ and other such statements are not at all thoughtful of the feelings of (some) mums.

        Not saying that you said Jil, just an example :-)

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    • jetstream

      Really nicely said.

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    • gretski

      I think you’re awesome cordeline.

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    • rivkah

      Thank you Cordeline.

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    • SuziQ

      I concur. Very nicely said.

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    • picardie.girl

      I love you, Cordeline. xx

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  16. Gin & Tonic

    Being a slave to a family can be shit sometimes especially as you generally have no idea what you are doing, but ask me if I would go back to before they arrived and I would answer HELL NO.

    Their stinky, demanding, beautiful little bodies make me immensely happy.

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  17. Sparky

    I think this article assumes most women don’t have a lot of exposure to small children before we give birth to them? I knew it was hard work. I knew the rewards were emotional, not financial. I knew they never slept. I knew they spewed up entire bottles of milk (although the projectile distance factor was kinda surprising). OK, I didn’t know just how much of an inpact that would have ON ME day in, day out, to (seemingly) infinity but I had a clue. Really, I did.

    And I DID IT ANYWAY! Willingly.

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  18. Michelle

    You do know women have been having babies for a very long time. It’s an important job but it’s not unique.

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  19. C

    Never fear! No baby will ever need a paediatric chiropractor’s spinal realignment. Ever.

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    • mumofthree

      Agreed.

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    • Faybian

      While there may not be scientific studies in it (I don’t know if there are or not), if it makes people happy, so what? Particularly in the case of torticollus.

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      • Sarah

        Perhaps because it costs money and sells false hope by saying the baby will be ‘cured’.

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  20. MummyJoy

    I must say I have been guilty of this. Am a new mom to a 11 month old girl.i must say though that I wished that someone told me about what is to come, especially with breast feeding! I honestly thought it was all going to happen automatically, little did I know of the difficulties that was to come! Used to sit, persisting the latching process, almost giving up, thinking what’s going on, and what I was doing wrong…since then I have spoken about it, shared my success techniques but also out of this some of my other non pregnant friends who have since had babies, are aware of the reality of breast feeding etc. I do find though that sometimes the bad stories can overwhelm and be of too much emphasis, leaving the good ones no room for celebration….balance is good, information is empowering.

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  21. Helen

    I’m the opposite – as a new mum much later than most of my friends I had no idea what was coming.. and I felt completely betrayed that nobody had warned me! they always talked about it when I wasn’t around and I felt excluded by that and gee was I shocked when my beautiful boy arrived!!!

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  22. thegoose

    Don’t worry Mums keep talking away. I’m 22 and my husband and I are going to be starting a family soon. I’m studying womens’ health at the moment as part of my physio degree which pretty much entails everything that can and will go wrong when you are pregnant/give birth. And honestly it hasn’t put me off. I think that it’s a frame of mind – if you want kids you’re going to want them no matter what, and if you’re not ready you’ll be talked out of it.

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  23. Kate

    As a mother of 4 ranging in age from 4 to 20 what I’ve learned is that sometimes it’s best not to have expectations and go with the flow, especially with new borns. If they are hungry feed them, if they want a cuddle then cudddle them, you can not spoil a new born with attention and love. Forget routines adn schedules for those early months and more often than not a pattern will emerge itself if you are open to it. Don’t analyse everything and just let it be what it is.

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    • Blue22

      Well said. So much of the anxiety comes from bubs ‘failure’ to meet imposed expectations and schedules together with worrying about the future (eg. creating bad habits, anticipating problems and forgetting the baby stage is so fleeting). Letting go of all of that truly transforms the experience. I have a 21 month old and 10 week old and constantly remind myself of this. I fall into the trap often and it’s one of my biggest personal challenges ever but when I can change my mindset my world is one of wonder and jou rather than anxiety and fear.

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  24. Col

    I really take offense at the term “non-mum” – being defined as a woman by one facet of human existence you don’t opt into, whether by choice or not, totally discounts and demeans all the worthy and valuable roles that you do play in life in your career, personal relationships, etc.

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    • Jacqui

      Good grief, take a breath!

      How would you like it to be referred? Married, career girl, awesome friend, non-smoker, social drinker, yoyo dieter who happens to not have children (maybe yet?)

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      • Guest

        I don’t have kids and Col’s comment is valid. I’m all for pointing out people being precious but there really is a large amount of people who define a woman by whether she has kids or not and it is frustrating to those of us who don’t.

        Some people are hopeless at conversation. It boils down to “do you have kids?” and “what do you do?”. People define women by their children in the same way people define others by their jobs. Both frustrate me equally. I like to get cheeky and reply with stuff like ‘barmaid’ and refuse to qualify it with ‘….and Master’s student’ because I like to see if someone will make assumptions. Considering taking the same line with the kids thing. ‘No, I don’t I think kids are revolting little monkeys’.

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        • Lovely lady

          When the article posted is about woman with and without children the term has a place and if that offends a person omg!!!! When I was a non mum hell I was proud of that title your damn right I’m a non mum I’m a party hard career girl now I’m a mum and proud of that too.

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      • Col

        Um, there’s nothing wrong with my breathing, thanks all the same. Nice attitude, implying I’m being unreasonable and hysterical for suggesting that “non-mother” is a negative (quite literally) way to describe someone. Since you’ve asked, I’d rather be referred to in neutral or positive language – reflecting my identity or achievements, rather than what I don’t have or haven’t done. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Just as people with kids don’t like being referred to as “breeders” for the implications & judgements it’s loaded with, I really don’t wish to be referred to as a “non-mother”.

        And thank you “Guest” for your voice of reason. I’m starting to think this blog is some kind of cultural and political vacuum where feminism never happened.

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        • erintypegirl

          Considering the article relates specifically to women with children talking to women without children, and is discussing the relationship between them, I think “mum” and “non-mum” are entirely appropriate descriptions of the women involved. The “bank manager” being freaked out by the “consultant” doesn’t articulate the message quite so well and is actually irrelevant to the article.

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          • Col

            And here comes the other well-worn argument tactic where someone exaggerates and misrepresents my comments and draws an absurd conclusion. What’s the point in trying to be rational and reasonable when people have such myopic attitudes?

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            • Natalie

              Agree entirely.

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    • Ros

      I’m with you, Col. I am mother and ad much as I love it (most of the time). I don’t want to be defined by it. I think I’m a pretty interesting person who has other things to talk about!

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    • Beckala

      I’m with you col. It’s based purely on a couple of really awkward and painful conversations I’ve been forced to endure. One person asked if I had kids. When I said no, they replied “well I’m sure it will happen soon”. When I replied that it wouldn’t, this charming person said “well what’s wrong with you? Can’t have them or are you just completely selfish?!”. I don’t really want to discuss my or my husband’s fertility problems with someone who was pretty much a stranger. So for those who want to say its an overreaction, I for one would like you to understand the other side. It really hurts when people dismiss you or insult you, just because you don’t have kids, regardless of the reason, and feel they are perfectly fine with making snap judgements based on this one thing. Ironically, I’m a school teacher (in my opinion, i don’t have a child, I have 350), but because in this conversation, the kid question came first, I was basically called a children hater. By a person I had been speaking to for all of ten minutes. This is the most extreme example I have, but it is certainly not the only one. Other phrases childless people don’t want to hear is “just do IVF” (like its similar to getting a vaccination instead of a major medical treatment) or “just adopt” – like it’s buying a puppy from a pet store.

      I know it’s slightly off topic – but I felt in relation to this group of comments it was necessary. To the parents out there – I’m happy for you, I support you, I’m an awesome “aunty” (as in my friends’ kids, I’m not an actual aunty yet). But please don’t judge people who don’t have kids. And please understand that we may be sensitive about that fact, because chances are, we’ve been copping some pretty insensitive comments for a long time – we’ll celebrate your wins if you celebrate ours. Deal?

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      • Rudyroo

        And the reverse as well.
        Please don’t judge people who do have kids.
        We are still intelligent human beings who like to know and talk about more than just our children. We may be a bit sensitive because we cop quite a few insensitive comments and are often totally disregarded as less than worthy.
        We would love to celebrate if you celebrate ours. Deal?

        I think it works both ways. Let’s just learn to take people for who they are regardless of what they are …parent, non parent, single, married, wealthy, poor, man, woman….
        Less generalisations about groups might be a good start.

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    • Jessica

      I can see what you mean in general terms but in relation to this article I don’t understand your offense! Its an article about those who have had children communicating with those who may wish too but have not yet. How would you have preferred “non mum” to be described in the context of this article and not in life in general?

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      • Rabbit

        ‘do you have kids?’ I thought that was a pretty innocent question. It allows those getting to know you to develop a better picture of your life. I have asked people this question, as well as ‘what do you do for work’ or ‘do you have siblings?’ not meant to offend…it may sometimes feel as if everyone is out to attack, but I’m sure this is mostly not the case.

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        • Nat

          It’s funny I never asked people if they had kids until I had one myself. When at work or a party it never comes up

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        • Torstar

          The reality is most people ask “Why don’t you have kids?” NOT “Do you have kids?” and I think you can see there is a marked difference between the two.

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      • Torstar

        “Are mums freaking you out?” would have sufficed.

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        • coffee drinker

          No that would have been a different story. They could freak out the men at the local coffee shop because they think they are going to scare off the customers, but that wasn’t the point of the story.

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    • Torstar

      I too think non-mum is demeaning and unnecessary. It’s no different to childLESS when childFREE is positive and uplifting! Feel free all you NON MUMS to join our facebook group – Childfree Chicks – the discussions there are much more enlightening!

      http://www.facebook.com/groups/childfreechicks/

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      • Cordeline

        There is a specific Facebook group for women who do not have children?!

        I’m actually about lost for words on that. Do you honestly think that women who do have kids don’t have or want other topics to discuss? What if you found out that some the people reading that page were parents, what would you do? Ban them?

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        • Jen

          There are plenty of groups specifically for parents, so why does that offend you? Do you begrudge child-free women the opportunity to communicate?

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        • Torstar

          We have heaps of mums in childfree chicks. Why not come and check it out to see what it’s about before suggesting it’s an elitist club where all we do is bag out mothers?

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          • Anonymous

            I didn’t suggest it was an elitist club or that you would just bag mothers… in fact, you said above that you just have ‘other discussions’. I didn’t think it would be a group about bagging parents, but just given the name of the group, I thought that you have members who were parents…

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        • SunnyScarlett

          Childfree Chicks is a group where women and men can talk about life without children and there are plenty of mums and dads on there who also contribute. I’m not sure why you are lost for words about it – it’s not a group suggesting mothers have nothing to talk about other than their babies. I have tried for years to conceive without success and the group has been an incredibly positive place for me.

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      • Rebecca

        I’m sorry that you find the conversations that mums have so dull. Believe it or not but I am capable of conversing about numerous subjects.

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        • Torstar

          Rebecca, I’m sorry you were offended by my comment which was not suggesting for a moment mothers don’t have anything interesting to talk about but rather it was a direct response to Beckala suggesting she come and join our group for some lively chatter as she seemed to have copped the same judgment most of our members have.

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      • just wondering

        Everyone has the right to make, and celebrate, their own lifestyle choices, whether you’re a mum, childfree, vegetarian, scrapbooker, whatever. I was curious about your facebook group, it sounded interesting, so I took a quick look. I’m not trying to be a smartarse, I am genuinely interested in your take on this. You say you prefer the term childfree because it is positive and uplifting, but your facebook group openly berate and moan about selfish, stupid breeders (all descriptions used in the comments I read) … it all seemed a bit negative and aggressive to me. Anyway, I’m reading this a few days after the post so I’m not sure I’ll get a reply but I’d be interested to hear your response.

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        • Torstar

          I guess the group will be interpreted depending on what you are looking for.

          The description of the group is “After a recent discussion with some girlfriends about how we ended up “childfree” we came up with the idea of forming a facebook group for women who have ended up without kids. The reasons are many. It might have been a conscious choice. It might have been biological. For some, life happened and one day we woke up and realised kids were not going to be part of our future. Some of us never wanted kids. But whatever the reasons, the outcome has affected us all on some sort of emotional level.

          So, if you have ended up childfree, join our group where we can all chat, vent, cry, laugh and share our stories.”

          The reasons the women (and men) – some childfree and some with children – who have joined the group are plentiful and while many on there have reasons to vent there are also many who go there for support and others just to have a laugh. It provides a non-judgmental place to express your own personal views and experiences in a safe forum and for that reason I stand by my comment that the group IS positive and uplifting.

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          • Torstar

            Further, on any given day the hot topics can change depending on who is actively online, who has something to discuss and which topics strike a chord and generate a response. One day the group might look aggressive, another day overly sentimental and on other days we might all just be needing a good laugh.

            I have never thought of the group as aggressive or negative despite the fact many of the members own personal experiences have led them to feeling anger just like I don’t see the group as light and fluffy because other members go on there merely to post humour or light-hearted comments. It’s a complex issue and the group reflects that entirely.

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            • Just wondering

              Thanks for your reply. Perhaps I’ll have another look some other time, see if I get a better vibe. All the best with your group.

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  25. Alison

    Agreed. I often think I should have had children a long time ago (20 years old or so).. Because now I’ve heard way too much about lack of sleep, school mum bitchiness, lack of quality time with the husband, and just the general day to day drama to get excited about having children. Not sure I ever will.

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    • mumofthree

      You can have a great life without kids. If other peoples stories put you off the idea of having kids then that’s probably enough to know it’s not for you :)

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      • Annon2

        I actually agree with you. I thought I was ready to have kids cos I love kids, until my friends started having kids and talked about the stuff that they have to endure having kids. I then realised that I don’t actually want to have kids.

        I think I love little kids’ cuteness and innocence, but to actually have one and have this huge responsibility in my hands… I don’t actually want that. Call me selfish and all but I like my life right now.

        Sometimes I wonder if my friends said nothing, I might have kids by now… but I am glad that they told me and gave me information to think seriously whether I wanted one or not.

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  26. Georgi

    Sadly, when it comes to pregnancy, babies and children, a lot of women seem to wear their “misery” like a badge of honour. So many horror stories about awful labours and difficult children…
    I am absolutely thrilled to be expecting my first baby in December. My pregnancy has been positive because that’s how I want it to be. I’m excited about giving birth and can’t wait to marvel at the wonder that will be the life of my little one – warts and all.

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    • Anonymous

      Totalyy agree, I always loved being pregnant even with the carpal tunnel , loose joints and eveything else that goes with it. Most new mothers these days seem to think they are the first and only ones to do it, suck it up and deal. Enjoy the family you have made.

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      • Helen

        A positive attitude, while nice to have, doesn’t make a good pregnancy. Some pregnancies are better than others. I’m just about (thank bloody god) to have my second baby. My first pregnancy was a wonderful, positive experience. I found the tiredness, nose bleeds, sore ribs etc etc etc fascinating and loved every moment of it. This time I have had severe all day nausea for the last 32 weeks. It’s almost impossible to function, look after my toddler or care about anything other than feeling better. I have suffered through it and hated every moment. This isn’t because of my attitude to pregnancy. I loved the first one. These two pregnancies couldn’t be more different. Maybe those woman with less positive attitudes to pregnancy just feel a LOT WORSE. Maybe your pregnancy isn’t positive because that’s how you want it to be but because you have been LUCKY enough to have a good pregnancy!

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        • B

          I agree with you Helen. My second pregnancy saw me with my head in the toilet 24/7. I lost a tooth from the stomach acid rotting it out so quickly and ended up tearing my esophagus. I couldn’t look after my toddler or do my job properly. The general rule was if I stood up, I threw up. It was miserable. While I kept reminding myself of the joy I knew was coming at the end of it, it was bloody miserable. Thankfully, I have had the most amazing, calm, happy baby – a completely different experience from my first who literally screamed for the first six months (despite my calm, relatively easy pregnancy). While trying to be positive can help, it doesn’t always take away the physical stress of the experience.

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    • mumofthree

      Oh so smug. Come back to us in 15 years to tell us how your positive attitude was all you needed….

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      • Anonymous

        Where mumofthree, did Georgi say that her positive attitude was “all that she needed”?

        I believe you’re putting words into her mouth in order to facilitate you leaving a nasty judgemental comment in reply to hers.

        What she DID say was “My pregnancy has been positive because that’s how I want it to be.” meaning she’s concentrating hard on making her pregnancy as positive as possible because that’s the experience she wants it to be. She said nothing about sailing through motherhood on just a positive attitude and it all turning out peachy and perfect.

        I agree with her. The amount of women who do nothing but bitch and whine during pregnancy is beyond a bloody joke. YOU wanted a child, you wanted that baby growing inside you, so suck it up and just deal with it. Not everyone needs to or wants to hear about you whine for the thousandth time about how tired you are or how bloated you feel etc etc

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        • Rabbit

          Good for you, Helen! Life really is what you make of it.

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    • Dkmum

      Good on you!!
      I took the exact same approach when I was pregnant with my first, and it was a perfect pregnancy, super easy delivery and while it was a trying time, she has been such an easy baby.
      We do see a Chiro on a regular basis, and I’m not sure if that has something to do with it all, but I’m sure the power of mind has a lot to answer to as well.

      I for one has always been yelling the loudest when it comes to sharing positive stories with friends who are wanting children. I save the whinging for one or two close friends who are in the same situation. We can then pat each other on the back and remind ourselves that we will get through it.

      Best wishes!

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      • mumofthree

        Oh please. Enough with the crap. I loved being pregnant too. But all three births hurt like death. The babies nearly drove me demented from sleep deprivation and I hated breast feeding. Telling women all they need to do is have a positive attitude is rubbish. That leads to the equivalent of blaming women who have terrible pregnancy, birth and parenting experiences for not being optimistic enough. Life is just not that simple.

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        • Dkmum

          I’m sorry that was your experience. I had an epidural with my first and felt nothing as I gave birth thanks to a fabulous team. And while I will admit to being delirious and only managing a shower every couple of days, my stress was mostly connected to not knowing what the heck I was doing and constantly questioning my decisions.

          I’m expecting number two currently and shitting myself about how I’m going to stretch myself even further, but my first baby was an easy baby!!!
          I don’t give people the idea that I don’t think luck was involved, and as I said our Chiro appointments might also have helped giving me a content baby, who knows. I’m just sharing my story.

          I never said ‘all you need is a positive attitude’ I’m just saying that I had words with my baby all through pregnancy and I was lucky enough to be ‘given’ a good one.
          If anyone thinks that’s the equivalent of blaming women who have bad experiences for not being optimistic enough then I feel sorry for them.

          This is a matter of not freaking expecting parents out, there’s enough to worry about, so why not share the beautiful stories out there rather than focus on the negative all the time. There’s enough of that going around.

          Hopefully no one thinks they’re somehow to blame for having painful deliveries, mastitis or whatever other hardship comes with being a new parent?!?

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          • Robyn

            Good for you Dkmum – I love your attitude! I think you’ll be a great mum second time around. I’ve only got one child at the moment, and sure there have been tough times – however all I remember is the positive stuff. I still think of the day I gave birth as the best day of my life so far, and whilst there have been a few bad days I can honestly only gush about the positives – and you don’t need to have had an easy pregnancy/birth etc to be positive. You’re doing great. Mumofthree sounds like the resentful kind of mum neither of us will ever be. I believe you get out of it what you put in. Time will tell if it’s all been worth it when our kids are all grown up :)

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            • Rabbit

              Dkmum you rock! My sentiments exactly. I’m sure you will be just fine with baby #2. My son was also an ‘easy’ baby, but sometimes I wonder if it had more to do with having a positive attitude about it all than him actually being ‘easy.’ In the beginning, I was sleep deprived to the point where I couldn’t remember simple words, but in a few months time he was sleeping 4 hours straight. It passes.

              When I tell people that my son is an ‘easy’ baby, the usual reaction is “That means your second one is going to be a handful! Just wait and see!” Ummm….no. No need to label the poor baby before he/she is even born. Nice to hear a comment from someone who is optimistic about babies, toddlers, and motherhood in general. :)

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            • mumofthree

              @ Robyn, all sweetness and light until you disagree with someone then the insults come spewing out huh? Calling me a resentful mother is both untrue and childish.

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            • clarinette

              wow Robyn, that was a very nasty blow. Ganging up heh? very mature. Poor girl.

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            • B

              Wow mumof3, I never really agree with your comments, but do with this one. Unbelievably passive-aggressive Robyn. I’m astounded someone would say this.

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            • Robyn

              @mumofthree – I didn’t disagree with you, I just didn’t think you painted a particularly positive picture of your experience with parenting – read your comments again, it’s all very negative. I’m sure you have had many wonderful and amazing experiences and enjoy your kids immensely, it just didn’t come across in the way you wrote. Not meant to be a low blow, more of an observation based on the couple of comments I read. Apologies :)

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            • mumofthree

              @ Robyn, I appreciate your apology, thank you. My comment was an attempt to highlight that no matter how wonderful our pregnancies are, or how wanted our children are, that life can throw curve balls. I was a smug mother the first time around (20 years ago) I had an easy baby, who grew into a wonderful child and now adult. I could have put it all down to positive parenting, but it was luck. I had two more children, and they are not so easy. I had three wonderful pregnancies, I know many who haven’t. I had three uncomplicated deliveries. I know many who haven’t. I have three healthy children now. I know many who don’t. Choosing to have kids comes with risk. Things don’t always go to plan no matter how happy you may be about becoming a parent. And we do a terrible disservice to mothers when we make simplistic claims about positive attitudes. It is hurtful. I say that from personal experience. I appreciate you coming back to your earlier comment to read my response, and I hope you see this one too. I also wish you all the best with your parenting journey. Have a great weekend.

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    • Anonymous

      ‘My pregnancy has been positive because that’s how I want it to be’. That’s terrific.

      Good on you.
      You are lucky.

      But spare a thought for those women who also want(ed) their pregnancies to be positive (is there a woman who doesn’t?!) but unfortunately they endured all kinds of sickness, ailments and god knows what else.

      It’s also great to read your positive attitude toward birth and your baby. I will eat my socks though if you never have a moment during birth or motherhood when you don’t feel like marvelling at it all AND don’t share any of the downs.

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      • Robyn

        Anonymous, you sound a bit bitter towards someone for having a positive attitude? (forgive me if I’ve misinterpreted but that’s how it comes across in your post). It’s just a way of looking at things and living your life. I’ve had some shitty days with my child, but the positive things are the only thing I take away from it. You can have a horrible pregnancy for whatever reasons, but if you take out the positives like that you are growing a child etc etc then it’s a much healthier and happier way to look at it. I do share some of the downs of parenting with those I know who can help me out, not just to broadcast it to anyone who will listen, because that doesn’t achieve anything in my opinion. Being positive doesn’t mean you don’t have bad days – it means you can look past them and appreciate all the good things in your world. If you hold onto all the crap then that breeds resentment, and I don’t resent being a mother at all.

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        • Anonymous

          No, no, I’m not bitter at all. In fact, I’m the person who has positive affirmations hanging up on my kitchen wall! ‘We think what we become!’ and all that :-)

          I just thought Georgi’s comment sounded as though she was putting others down for not having great pregnancies and having hard times as parents. Sometimes, things can get tough enough, that no matter how many positive things you say to yourself, life is the pits for a little while. And then it passes.

          I’m not sure if that makes sense?!

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          • Robyn

            Total sense :) I don’t think Georgi meant it that way though, it’s hard to be positive because then you have people thinking you are rubbing it in – lose lose!

            Sometimes if my son and I have a bad day I say to my husband “I enjoy my job, just not the people I work with today” – then it passes!

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            • Anonymous

              Agree! Life in general is a no-win situation sometimes when you are conversing with people who are from opposite ends of the spectrum.

              I also said to my husband last week ‘I love my children with all my heart, unconditionally, but I just don’t like my job as a mum right now’ :-)

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        • Dkmum

          Exactly my point Robyn.
          I definitely don’t pretend being a parent is a walk in the park, gosh, my husband works away half the year and I’m struggling, but by putting more emphasis on the positive rather than the negative just makes looking back at what has been a much more pleasurable experience. It’s not about being smug or withholding the truth from future parents, but about choosing what to emphasise in your mind.

          After reading all these comments I’m reminded again that we’re just all different people, I thrive on hearing the positives, that’s what gets me through scary upcoming events, whereas others obviously prefer preparing their minds for the less joyous events up ahead. It’s just how we’re wired differently people, no need for turning it into yet another mummy-war. We’re allowed to have different needs and wishes without resorting to condescending comments.

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    • Georgi

      Wow! What a mix of reactions. To clarify, my response was directed specifically to the topic of the article. In my opinion I think people ARE too quick to talk about the negative side of pregnancy, labour, birth and parenting. Whether or not there are difficulties in each is not something the author of the article nor myself are questioning. It’s the attitude towards the information which is shared. I personally would prefer to focus on how wonderful the process is than dwell on aches, pains, sickness, whingeing, crying and the various other stresses of motherhood. Because aren’t the “good times” the reason we choose to have a family in the first place?

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  27. Faybian

    I’ve been a mother all my adult life and in fact don’t know what life as an adult without dependants would be like. I’ve always tried not to bore non parents with constant talk of my kids, partly because it would bore me too. It is hard to talk about your day without banging on about your kids, when you spend all of it at home with said kids.
    I think part of the problem is that we don’t really see babies and young children growing up around us. Not like we used to, so I guess it’s no wonder talk of the hard bits of parenting freaks people out.

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    • GeeBee

      I too have been a mother for my whole adult life. When I was expecting my first baby most people couldn’t wait to tell me how hard it would be and how silly I was for getting pregnant (complete surprise, I didn’t plan it), they couldn’t wait to say ‘I told you so’. So when my baby did arrive I couldn’t believe how much I loved it. Yes there were some very hard times but because people failed to tell me about all the good bits they came as a lovely surprise.

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      • Faybian

        I too had a very easy first baby (and labour to be honest), but maybe because a lot of people thought I was her sister at first, may have been the reason I didn’t get a lot of advice.
        I did get a lot of “interesting” comments when we were struggling for number 3 and for when I was pregnant with no 4 though.

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  28. kitty

    When I was pregnant with my first child I was shocked and horrified at all the mums who felt the need to tell me their horror birth stories – which made me super anxious. I made a vow to myself NEVER to share negative details about birth to first time mums. If asked I honestly reply ‘No it wasn’t very nice but look what you get for your efforts!’ As for the people who feel the need to tell you you’ll ‘never get enough sleep again’ gggrrr!!

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    • Travelling mum

      My oldest is 8 and I still need a nap.

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  29. Me Myself I

    When I was pregnant someone told me their hair fell out in chunks. Scared the crap out of me. So guess what happened to me?

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    • Shaezy

      Me Myself I, that’s actually extremely common and normal (sorry, not trying to freak everyone out here!) so if it happened to you, don’t think you scared yourself into it!! My hairdresser is amazing at telling how long ago someone had a baby by the fluffy regrowth along you hairline!

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  30. Travelling mum

    As a mum of twins, I keep my trap pretty much shut. Two reasons: firstly if I open those floodgates I may not be able to stop, and secondly I’m pretty sure I will sound all negative nelly.

    The bit I’m struggling with the most is the aftermath on my body, Weird lookin’ stomach rolls, rectocele, stress incontinence, boobs like poached eggs. Help me Rhonda!

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  31. mumofthree

    I think lack of exposure to the reality of raising children is a risk factor for PND. If you get your parenting ideas from Johnson and Johnson ads, boy are you in for a nasty surprise. The more realistic picture going in, the better.

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    • Aishie

      Oh I completely agree – why didn’t i hear about breastfeeding difficulties, and settling difficulties and all those other things before I started to experience them myself. I remember sitting feeding at 3am a week thinking ‘oh my god, what have I done!” and just being on edge for weeks with worry about everything….. Little did i know it was similar for most new mums. I think preparation is good. Even our mothers have had all the bad memories erased over time!

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      • Anna76

        I think it’s an interesting dilemma – whether to say nothing or to be very open about the difficulties of motherhood. I remember watching an episode of ‘Oprah’ a few years ago about the reality of becomming a mother and one of her guests complained that she felt let down by other women she knew who had never told her about the hard parts of motherhood.

        I was 25 when I had my first child and I must admit that I was pretty naive about what was involved in parenting a baby. I think I had images of huggies commercials in my head! I certainly wasn’t prepared the reality of being a new mother and I remember thinking is it just me who finds so much of this motherhood thing hard, or is it just that nobody told me?

        These days and three beautiful kids later, I absolutely love getting together with my friends who are also mothers and bonding over the joys and difficulties of motherhood, but yes, we are definitely not as open about our difficult experiences, if there are women who are not mothers who are with us.

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    • hellopetal

      It is a huge factor. I had no idea about babies in reality, only what I’d read. All my experience of kids was from aged 18months onwards. Most of my friends had their babies when I was overseas so they were all coming up to two years old when we returned. I did have PND & I remember after the birth (& after the hormone drop on day 3) feeling utterly betrayed that no-one had told me what birth was truly like! I know now that everyone’s birth is different & how could anyone have known how mine would be nor how I would react to it. I do think that forewarned is forearmed.

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    • Andrea

      Agree. And if you can’t talk about your struggles as a new mum with your friends, then they’re not really your friends. Talking about and through my experiences in the first months of motherhood was the only thing that kept me together. I almost certainly would have suffered pnd if I had to pretend everything was peachy just in case I was freaking someone else out. I do agree that we could talk about all the amazing times (the giggles, cuddles etc.) more but in my experience this would come across as terribly boastful and hurtful to those trying very hard to have children, so I always try to be sensitive of that. But again, true friends are happy for you. Pregnancy is filled with worry no matter how you spin it. If it’s not friends freaking you out it’s baby books, blogs, the news etc. I think it’s a natural part of it. Everyone wants their baby to be healthy, their birth to be easy. I am so glad I knew about many of the complications that can happen in childbirth as when my on said used a strange medical term to describe what was happening I knew what he meant straight away. If I hadn’t it would have totally freaked me out!

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  32. KatLizzy

    Yes! I think the best one was the story told at netball training of a ‘friend of a friend’ whose uterus or something came out with the baby.
    Mind you, when most people start talking about pregancy I zone out. Zzzzzz.

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    • Faybian

      Uterine inversion and fortunately, it’s very rare. It would freak me out as a non mother too, let alone a non midwife.

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    • Anna76

      Andrea, I think you have made a really good point about the fact that if someone is sitting there only talking about all the great stuff, then others will think that they are boasting and not being honest. Others mothers will just end up feeling alienated instead of supported.

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  33. Guest

    I was wavering on kids. I have a medical issue that would making having and raising (not just having, raising as well) kids quite difficult.

    I’m not hugely maternal, was keen on the childfree lifestyle. But still wavering a little. After years of reading MM I realised it wasn’t for me. Yes, the mums freaked me out. It all sounded so goddamn crap. I am sure children are lovely and being a mum is the best thing ever for some but as someone who was on the fence reading stuff from frazzled mums who had no lives of their own, hadn’t slept in years or had sex, well….made the decision for me.

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    • clarinette

      Good for you! honestly. Maybe you can’t ever be sure that you made the right decision without trying both sides, but since there’s no “trying out motherhood for size”, it’s good to choose the path you already feel comfortable with. I know it’s weird, especially coming from a mother of 2, but i’m happy for you :)

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  34. Some random

    Yes, you’re freaking us out. But my lovely sister just lent me ‘French Children Don’t Throw Food’ which has been great at making me realise that there are ways to make this whole caper easier for yourself if you’re able to take a step back and look objectively at the situation. Also that a certain well known author and lactation consultant who blogs over at certain parenting website owned by Fairfax is a viper.

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    • Anne

      I tried to read this book after I had children and whilst the idea behind it was great it was hard for me to put into practice with 3 children and a toddler who is driving me to the brink. Children go through stages in life and once one is over there are always more hurdles to get through. I think mothers should listen to their instinct and give yourself a break. Motherhood is hard and it’s ok to suck at it sometimes and have a good moan. I think it would be worse for mothers to be if we all talked about it being happiness and rainbows.

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    • clarinette

      Just as an aside, I haven’t read that book but I’ll set this one straight: I’m French. My kids did throw food as toddlers. There I said it.

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      • Anne

        Ok since we are being honest I read the book and it was a bunch of bollocks. (sorry to anyone who read it and liked it)

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        • clarinette

          lol I bring out the honest in people ^^

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        • Some random

          Oooh, cross channel insults. Classy.

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      • Some random

        She doesn’t say in the book that French kids never act up or misbehave- her point is that most of the French children she comes into contact with in her life as an expat are generally vastly better behaved than the American and British children she sees, including her own. She’s also at pains, throughout the whole book, to remind people that she’s talking about only the children she sees in Paris whose parents are educated and firmly middle class. She never actually claims that she knows how the rest of France raises their kids.

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        • vivacious

          I am just back from a 4 week trip around Europe and I have to say the kids in France were noticeably better behaved than anywhere else – particularly the UK where we went after Paris. Again, just one person’s perspective but even my partner who normally doesn’t notice stuff like that (and who had no idea the book existed) noticed.

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  35. Bec

    I think I must be one of the few mothers who will talk about the kids but then wants to move onto to other things, especially when I see my work friends and want to catch up on what is going on. But a lot of my non-mum friends will say that we are all freaking them out so I think I over compensate and tell them the good stuff. But I really do feel sorry for them sometimes because some of the stories freak me out!!! (& I’ve had kids for 10 years)

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  36. Kimerley

    You think it is bad when they are babies. Wait until they are older. You will look back at this stage as a joy!! Good luck

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    • Rabbit

      Kimerley, what do you mean? This is a genuine question. How does it get more difficult? I’d love concrete examples.

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      • Anonymous

        i think it gets more difficult only because they develop minds of their own as they get older :) And obedience is not always something that comes easily with independence.

        It’s not always more difficult though, just different, Mine are now fantastic yound adults but I occasionally miss the earlier years – so treasure them while you can as it will be over way too quickly.

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  37. Anonymous

    I have an adorable 7 month old son and I have to admit to suffering from bouts of anxiety whilst I was pregnant. Wondering if I was doing the right thing and thinking about how my life was going to change was very common. Personally I think that it’s not only normal but healthy to have these feelings. I often wonder if the expectant mothers who show no fear get a bit of a rude awakening when their baby actually arrives.

    The best advice I could give an expectant mother is to expect challenges and to celebrate overcoming them. The first few weeks with my little darling were very daunting and at times I found it hard to cope, but eventually you just get the hang of it and I’ve definitely found the more I relaxed the more my little man did the same. He now still has his moments but I like to think that he is as close to a perfect baby that you can get.

    On a side note, I had my son adjusted by a chiro when he was about 7 weeks old and he was a different baby (no more colic, began to sleep through). I understand that its not for everyone but I highly recommend it.

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    • vivacious

      Can I add, if you are going to do it, find a chiro who specialises in it? I would trust mine, but I also trust her with my brittle bones. I wouldn’t trust her associate who doesn’t specialise in kids.

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      • Anonymous

        Yes I should have added that I used my chiro whom I trust and who has a lot of experience with babies.

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  38. Anonymous

    Seems like a no-win situation…

    I often read comments from new mums or hear them say ‘I wish someone had told me about XYZ before I had this baby’. I understand this.

    Then of course you hear loads of people say ‘god, mums bore us to death, you are making us not want babies’. I understand this too.

    There is a big tip of the scale though on this site I feel, one group of women freely express how they feel about the other, slamming them down very regularly. But the other group rarely does the same back.

    Short of not allowing mums to make comments where non-mums might read them, what to do? Like anything else in life, just don’t read too much into anything. Take the bits of information that you think make sense or might relate to you and forget the rest.

    I just wanted to add another point here as a bit of a comparison of situations. People often recall harder, tougher, scarier times in their life more quickly than great ones. Ask most people what the scariest moment of their life was and they can usually answer in an instant. But the better moments can sometimes take a bit more thinking time. They usually outweigh the bad moments, but bad/negative things often have a more dramatic impact on our memories and so people recall these things quicker. Talking about pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood is like this too sometimes.

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  39. S

    I don’t have kids yet and yes the endless talk in the media (and now more than ever with social media) about kids and parenting def puts you off!! I don’t know if I’m up for being a parent in such a crazy, obsessed child-centred society!

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  40. Roxy

    I had my first baby 3 months ago and for the duration of my pregnancy I was plagued by people giving me helpful input such as “you’re life is over”, “hope you didn’t want to sleep ever again” and telling my partner that we’ll never have sex again.

    I consider myself a realist and was certainly not envisioning my life becoming a Huggies commercial as it was, so this constant unwelcome commentary from well meaning co-workers, friends and family did nothing to reduce my anxiety about babies and motherhood.

    What they don’t tell you is the all encompassing love you will feel for your little one (if not immediately then eventually) and how the first time you see your bub smile makes you forget those early fatigue filled days.

    I guess bad news sells and that’s why so many talk about the challenges of motherhood as opposed to the lovely parts. So IMHO for anyone who is pregnant or fearful of parenthood, there are challenges, trials and tribulations but it is all more than worth it in the end :-)

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    • Caro C

      Yes, yes, yes! That’s exactly how i felt too! So now I tell everyone about the love because it is so amazing (and gets better and better with each year and child, even though you don’t imagine that’s possible).

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  41. Nicki

    Thank you Kate!

    I’m not a Mum, and some of the stories I hear from Mums absolutely terrify me.

    By the way, I worked as a Chiro Assistant for a few years, and I’ve seen the benefits Chiro treatment has on bubs and kids xx

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  42. Kel

    While I do agree that if you are with a mix of childless friends and parents friends it is polite to talk about things other than children, I have to say that it seems like some people only hear what they choose to.
    I have friends who will always remember the negative things I say about anything, and other people who have a more balanced approach and understanding.
    Come one people, babies and children are great – that’s why so many people choose to have more than one. My kids bring me more joy than anything in my life. However, they are also a lot of hard work and there are some days where it is easy to feel really alone and lost.
    I don’t consider that I am freaking people out by being honest – it doesn’t take a genius to know that babies are hard work. What I do know is this, I can remember conversations my much older cousins had with my mum when they were having their babies and I often think back to those conversations, which took place when I was a teenager. It makes me realise that mums and babies have always been going through the same kinds of issues, and that makes me feel like I am part of something bigger, all us mums trying our best.

    Freaking out about babies is a choice – take a deep breath, remind yourself that none of the people you are choosing to listen to have met your baby and just look forward to holding your beautiful, sweet, sleeping baby in your arms. It is bliss!

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  43. Miss C

    Very scared and yes a little freaked out!
    I understand it’s not all huggies commercials and cute play dates, but why do some new mothers feel they are being “helpful” when explaining in detail how messy, sleep deprived, unorganised they have become. Would you change anything and give your child back? I didn’t think so-why can’t we as women support one another’s decisions, yes it is hard work no one is denying that but sometimes I feel embarrassed to admit I want kids, yes soon, yes I have thought about what it will do to our lives. I hope it will enrich it, give it more meaning, enable us to create something out of love, bring on the tornado I say because if we were all to scared to try then life would be boring. So when I do have children of my own, please other mums be there with tips and helpful advise rather than a ‘good luck to you’ attitude……

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  44. bre

    I have been trying for several years to get pregnant. I have read everything there is to read, and have seen first hand children at there worst and best.. AND I CANT WAIT :D

    What I do hate is when my friends with children say comments that are almost belittling.

    Example:
    Friend- “oh my gosh this poo is huge and really brown”
    Me- “can you please stop talking about that whilst I’m eating my lunch”
    Friend- “Um no I cant, this is what babies do!!!”

    Yeah cool I get that babies poo, but I dont need you to talk to me about it, and I bloody well I hope that when I have a child I dont talk about poo 24/7!!

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    • Rosalie

      Best of luck in falling pregnant. I know a lot of people who have struggled and finally had beautiful children. I wish you strength to keep going. I will note though that in the early days but also later poo is what it is all about – it can be the only way to work out if everything is really okay. However I won’t go into it here in fear of grossing you out! :)

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      • Kirri

        Ha ha! Yes to the poo story. My mum used to bore on and on about my nephews bowel movements when shed been baby sitting them. I’d be like ‘mum that is too much info’ ‘gross’ etc And then I had my own kids…it is food in that makes them grow and sleep, the only things that count at first, so inevitably what cones out after you feed becomes an important thing. God I really had to eat humble pie when I heard myself reporting in detail the same and asking mum about what colour texture etc was normal.

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    • Anonymous

      I also struggled to have kids and eventually managed to have 2 wonderful kids and believe me – raising kids is no where near as difficult as dealing with infertility. It is all a matter of perspective and if you have had a huge struggle to get them in the first place you will find what follows is a walk in the park :)

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    • Rebecca

      I agree and I’m a mum. I don’t need to hear poo stories. I didn’t like it before I had a chiild and I don’t like it now.

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  45. c

    It’s just that some people like to focus on the negative and the drama in any situation. It’s like the people who tell you when you get engaged/married to ‘just wait, everything will change and he won’t treat you like that forever’, etc. Says more about them really. I never bang on about horror stories mainly because I haven’t really had any with three kids. Sure I whinge every now and then about lack of sleep, but I reserve that for my mothers group or school/kinder mums. It’s just rude to be all negative about parenthood to non parents or expectant first time parents.

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  46. luly

    I’m Trying now, and I’m Sh!t scared!

    Scared if i do get pregnant, but worried i wont. scared about loosing my career, knowing I’ll have to work, but as it will be part time I’ll loose ground and salary. Scared of the juggling, scared of no sleep and worried about everything!

    So yes, freaked out well and truely.

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    • Anonymous

      Having children is challenging, rewarding and you will change as a person, guaranteed! But believe me, you will change for the better and priorities will shift. Many of your concerns will no longer apply. Surrender, surrender, surrender & relax :)

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  47. Guest

    I have been freaked out to the max by being a stepmother. It’s a frightening journey into the world of young children without the unconditional love and maternal bond. Hoping it may be different with your own children…

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    • Nicki

      I hear you!

      Having been a step-child (my father died) and a step-mother (my ex split up with the mother of his children), all I can say is I never want any family I create to be in a step-relationship. These relationships are SO much more complicated by the lack of blood-bond.

      I am relieved that I no longer have any of these people in my life.

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      • Faybian

        It can still work out.
        I’ve been married for 15 years now and my older kids call their step father dad and he is their dad. Even though their natural dad couldn’t be bothered with his kids and there’s no conflict there, hubby still had to deal with a non blood bond.
        I think it depends on a myriad of variables.

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  48. Lozzie

    I made a conscious decision to only share my childbirth stories with other mums who have been thru childbirth already because I was so thankful that I never heard any horror stories before I gave birth the first time.

    When the kids were little I really only whinged about the kids with other parents because we compared stories.

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    • Pen

      Lozzie I did and still do the same. I had a 21 year old asking me the other day about the pain. I told her that it’s worth it and that you forget very quickly ad left it at that. I don’t talk about my kids unless someone asks me

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    • Helen

      I agree. I find it cathartic to whinge about how hard it can be but only do it with friends going through the same stage as talking about sleep deprivation, poo etc with people who have no interest in it is just boring for them. It’s all about focusing on your common interests.

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  49. Natalie

    YES! You’re FREAKING US OUT!!! Actually, not only freaking us out, but deterring us from even wanting them and also BORING US TO DEATH!!

    Please, we love you. We no doubt love you’re new children and the stories, trials, cute little happenings, whatever. But please. For the love of all that is sacred. Shut up about them, sometimes.

    Respectfully.

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    • Anonymous

      Sorry, but if the mum stories and articles bore you to death, then just don’t read them. Pretty simple :-)

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      • Debbie

        That’s all well and good if it’s an article on the internet, but if it’s your best friends who you’re having lunch with it’s kind of hard to ignore.

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        • Anonymous

          have less lunches with those people then
          that might sound harsh, but if friendships become too hard for whatever reason, it might be time to move on. That is, if it’s too hard to tell your friends the truth about you feel.

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      • Childless

        It’s not that simple sadly

        I have a cousin (family you can’t exactly delete/block etc) who uses their Facebook to write status updates to their toddlers who can’t even read them on a regular basis. And people who go on about ‘how hard it is to be a Mum’ constantly – I have other family members who whenever I talk about being busy I get the whole ‘You don’t know what tired is’. Sorry, I was unaware that my own trials and tribulations pale in comparisson to your life as a Mum, my bad.

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        • Anonymous

          Don’t read those Facebook pages then. That’s pretty easy.

          And when mums say they are tired, even when they say ‘you don’t know blah blah blah’, they are NOT saying that your life is unimportant or that you never get tired. It’s just their way of expressing how freaking different their life is now.

          I totally get it can grate on your nerves to hear the ‘you don’t know… ‘ statement, but just try and ignore that phrase.

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        • TheMamaCat

          I only became a mum aged 34 so I have plenty of pre-kids life experience. The brutal truth is no matter how many all-nighters I pulled at uni, how hard I partied, or how many times I started work at 5am, that degree of tiredness is *nothing* compared what your baby/toddler can put you through. Sorry, but when a sleep-deprived parent tells a non-parent “you don’t know what tired is” – guess what? No matter how annoying you find them, they’re probably right.

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          • Anonymous

            so true!
            no matter how much non-mums hate hearing that

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          • MJ

            What a load of crap. There are lots of people out there getting less sleep than new mothers. My friend has a six month old and she sleeps more now than she ever did when she was working two jobs and a uni degree. She says all the time that has an easy life! And she does, compared to what she was doing before.
            Motherhood is not the be all and end all of suffering and sleep deprivation.

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            • Anonymous

              I find your first sentence there just, yuk. Do you live TheMamaCat’s life? Nope. Her life is obviously very different to your friend’s with a six month old. No need to attack.

              When I was at uni and working, I pulled some famous all-nighters which of course left me shattered. But I was 20 years old and recovered quickly from the tiredness.

              When I had babies, I was in my mid-30′s so had less energy to start with.

              I also had babies who, lucky for me, slept through the night from 6 weeks old. I was feeling terrific back then! Understood, but couldn’t relate to the sleep-deprived mums who were up all night with their babies.

              Fast forward a few years and I have a toddler who for 12 months now wakes up 3-4 times a night and then is up for good by 5am. I’m close to 40 and I’m farking stuffed.

              I’m older.
              It’s the broken sleep.
              It’s the instant demand of totally dependent humans.
              It’s the relentlessness of it.
              I often feel hungover for entire days from the lack of sleep or the interruptions during sleep, even though I can’t remember the last time I had a drink.

              I’m also well aware that my life is not the same as others. Parents and non-parents. I am better off than some. Worse off than some. But I’m not going to stand on a high horse and tell another person that their experience is a ‘load of crap’. Because I don’t know.

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            • MJ

              Anonymous, maybe I shouldn’t have said it’s a load of crap because that’s rude, but so is telling people –
              “Sorry, but when a sleep-deprived parent tells a non-parent “you don’t know what tired is” – guess what? No matter how annoying you find them, they’re probably right.”
              What a smug thing to say. I think mothers who make statements that they have it worse off than anyone else in the world because they’re mothers are seriously delusional. There are a lot of people out there way worse off. Some mothers get lots of sleep, some get none, but there are millions of other people out there who get less and more too who aren’t parents.
              Being a mother doesn’t make you some kind of authority on everything in life.

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            • TheMamaCat

              MJ:
              Yeah, mine slept through the night at 6 months old too. Now? Never ever *ever* sleeps through. Your friend may yet be in for a rude awakening – literally!
              I *could* try to make you understand how horrendous parental sleep deprivation can be by describing some of the gory details… But then I’d be accused of scaring you. And besides, I can’t be bothered. I’m too bloody tired.

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            • TheMamaCat

              Anonymous:
              Can’t seem to reply directly to your comment but wanted to thank you for leaping to my defence! :-)
              I so relate to your comment! You’re right – age definitely makes a big difference (unfortunately). And that hungover / jet-lagged feeling from the relentless sleep deprivation – ugh.

              Parents who have experienced severe & chronic kid-induced sleep deprivation are not being smug or condescending to people without kids by saying “you don’t understand” – they are just stating a simple truth. You can’t possibly understand what it’s like unless you’ve actually been through it. And we know this for a fact because WE didn’t understand either!

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            • MJ

              I understand the logistics of why it’s difficult, but I find you saying that being a parent is the most tiring thing in the world with utter conviction is laughable. There are a lot of people out there without kids getting a lot less sleep than you, who have far bigger problems and responsibilities than you do.
              Can’t you recognize that there are much harder lifestyles than yours?
              Parents who claim nobody without kids could understand what being tired is have a very narrow view of life, and are having a bit of a ‘woe is mummy’ party in my opinion.

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          • Mumof3

            TheMamacat, what a load of rubbish! I am a mother and I am sorry, but there is no difference in being tired pre child to post child. Tiredness is tiredness. Mother’s who use that ridiculous analogy are just using it as a means to make their childless friends feel less worthy. I think it is really mean to say that to someone who doesn’t have children. Sure being a mum is exhausting, but so it working a 70 hour week.

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            • MJ

              Exactly! I hate that attitude that being a mother is somehow so much harder and more rewarding than anything that anyone else in the world could ever achieve.

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      • Natalie

        I respectfully disagree.
        I loved the article, infact! The article I had no issue with whatsoever, It’s the fact that I’ve discovered a huge percentage of people with children think that their offspring are the centre of everybody’s universe. And they are not. I love ALL of my nephews, nieces and friends children…And the anecdotes are lovely – but in small doses. I respect that your children are consuming YOUR life, but they are not mine. And if they are ALL you have to talk about, you’ll find that not only people without children in your life pulling back when you don’t seem to engage in anything that does not make the YOUR children the centre of the universe. You as a human have worth, intelligence and interests besides you children I hope – otherwise you’re in for a cruel shock when they hit puberty.

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    • Jacqui

      I respectfully think your post is mean spirited Natalie.

      Yes we get that our tales might not be the most scintillating thing you’ve heard all day but we are your friends and this is where our lives are at right now.

      Whilst your current experiences might involve things that you consider infinitely more glamorous or fascinating, for us SAHMs this is pretty much all we have for you right now in terms of current events.

      My friends’ lives are always interesting to me because they’re my friends, regardless of what shape each one’s is currently taking.

      And if you ever decide to experience having your own children, the friends who are apparently boring you to death with their current experiences will be able to provide you with valuable support & advice. Which for me has been enormously valuable & I love & appreciate those friends for it.

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      • Debbie

        It’s not the fact that Children are boring – not at all, it’s just when that’s all you hear it kind of grates. In the same way that someone talks about their boyfriend all the time or their job all the time or their renovations all the time is boring. It’s the repetition, not the subject.

        By all means, tell me about your kids – I love hearing about your kids, but sometimes it’s nice to share the conversation – ask what I’m doing, talk about how crappy Big Brother is, anything.

        Also, I’m fully aware that not every parent is that repetitive, but those who are… boring

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        • Anonymous

          I understand. I am a mum myself and have friends who do nothing but talk about their own kids. I can’t stand it. I love to hear quick updates on everyone in the family but then for me, I’d rather talk about other stuff.

          I think it was just that your first comment above, really did read as though ALL mums are boring all the non-mums to death. It’s nice to know that you do realise that not all parents are so repetitive and one-minded.

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          • Natalie

            You’re right. I should have said ‘a lot of mums’ or ‘many’ instead of not specifying on such a sensitive topic.

            I mean’t A LOT OF or MANY MUMS… NOT ALL…. ;)

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      • Lizi

        ‘My friends’ lives are always interesting to me because they’re my friends.’

        Yes.

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      • Natalie

        I see your point completely. But my life is NOT scintillating and glamorous and things happen in the world besides ‘parties’ and ‘glamour’ and ‘babies’. We, as friends, have always enjoyed conversations about politics and ideas and life generally. Also, The assumption that everyone WANTS to have children, or CAN have children or is a position to seriously considered by those still under then influence of the glow of motherhood. Some don’t feel it. Or feel guilty for not feeling it… All I’m suggesting is that after a half an hour of venting and stories, I’ve had enough. And as someone who is unable to conceive, people with some semblance of empathy and /or conversation skills should start picking up on that at some point regardless of what they know or not and realise they have worth outside of their ‘mothering’.

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    • Nip

      You know what? Respones like this annoy the crap out of me. For most mothers, our children are usually the biggest thing going on in our lives (especially if you have young children) apart from housework, the occasional family/friend/mothers group outing and cooking. Of course that is what we are going to talk about. I am not advocating mothers ONLY talk about their children and nothing else but if you have NOTHING else going on as you have basically sacrificed everything ‘fun’ to rear children what else are you meant to talk about when discussing your personal life?

      Don’t you think we might get sick of hearing about your work? About how you went out to 5 in the morning and got trashed. Bor – ing! Some single people think they have the monopoly on interesting lives. But hey, I am happy to listen to my friends and their single/married with no children lives and delight in what is going as I know they like hearing about my life and children.

      One day when you are a new mother and have no one to talk to all day and then meet with your friends and they don’t want to hear about your little baby who has changed your life on it’s head, I hope you hang your head a little.

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      • Natalie

        First – the ‘one day you’ll understand’ trick does not bode with me as i’m unable to conceive. Something i’m fine with. But I have babysat my nephews and neices, and I don;t mean a few hours one afternoon – I mean weeks/months at a time while the parents were both hospitalised, night and day by myself. I know what the schedule is like and I know it can be consuming. But I still read news articles. I was still interested in politics. I still enjoyed films and music and art and ideas and sports. And time to do them with a 6 month old , an 18 month old and a 4 year old all to myself. I find it offensive that YOU think all we ‘single, non-mothers’ party til 5 am and get boozed constantly. My life is not like that in the slightest.. I’m 32 for gods sake. Not 20. Being a mother is consuming to a point I’ll never fully understand thanks to my infertility , and I hope YOU hang you head a little in shame for assuming we all get the opportunity to have what you do.
        All I’m asking for is a little mixed conversation. Not some f*ing sanctimonious “i gave birth to a human so you wouldn’t understand’ load of one sided, holier than thou crap that is so narrow minded and focused on themselves that they can’t see that perhaps, just perhaps someone else has a different life/opinion to them.

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  50. Eddie

    It is not just those without children that are being freaked out. I have always been embarassed because I am not particularly maternal and having children was not the best thing that ever happened to me. I don’t find my children to be the cutest, most perfect beings and they are not amazingly clever and they don’t say the darndest things.

    I like my children. They are nice people. Thank god for that. But I don’t want to talk about my children any more than I want to talk about yours.

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    • Love my kids to bits

      Wow really! Glad your not my mum!

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      • Eddie

        And there you have it: the person this article was written about.

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        • Love my kids to bits

          Actually no it’s not. Just because I love my kids to bits and do think they are the best thing I have done in my life, does not mean I can’t have adult conversations with my childless fiends that don’t revolve around kids and how difficult / wonderful the whole thing can be at times. In fact I make an effort not to talk to them about how great my kids are, but I will sit through endless hours of why won’t Mr right show up and how stressful their jobs are…… It’s all about being a balanced person and making sure if your going to have children they are the priority in your life, which basically means you “love” them and do think they are the best!

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          • Anonymous

            Well, your comment there just kind of reflected what Eddie said the first place. She just said in a more blunt way… it seems to me like you are a bit similar.

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            • Love my kids to bits

              On some points maybe but definitely not all of it. I’m off to dinner with girl friends now who don’t have children, iI will enjoy the cocktails and most of the conversation and will be glad they are still my friend even though they have yet to have children. But when I come home, I will “love” my kids to bits and still thnk they are perfect and I think every mother should, that’s the job you signed up for!

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            • Anonymous

              I think it’s a good thing when parents recognise their kids aren’t perfect. Not a single human on this planet is perfect.

              Just because you sign up for a job, doesn’t mean you have to love every second and aspect of it all the time. Eddie was just being honest, why attack her for it?

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      • Lozi

        Enough with the smug faux outrage please. She was just being honest.

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      • Anonymous

        See, it’s a no-win situation here. Many commenters here will love that comment from Eddie. Particularly the non-mums I’m guessing. But here you are a slamming her for it.

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      • Natalie

        Disappointing you can’t be more sensitive to the fact that se said she was ‘embarrassed’ she didn’t feel as maternal as other mothers. She clearly wishes she did and was just sharing her personal experience.. A little empathy wouldn’t go astray.

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    • Anonymous

      Wow – ditto Eddie. I feel exactly like you and it really needs to be OK to say this stuff and not be judged as a somehow less vaild a parent because of it. Ambilvalence about the experience of motherhood doesnt mean we love our children any less as seems to be implied by the response.

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