Lisa Lintern
by LISA LINTERN
I am a mother; therefore I must be dumb. Well, that’s what everyone keeps trying to tell me, right?
I got my first hint when I returned to work after becoming a mother.
“Don’t call yourself a ‘working mum’. They won’t take you seriously. You have to be professional at work and calling yourself a ‘working mum’ isn’t very professional,” was the advice given to me by a senior female executive.
Followed up by this: “Don’t tell anyone you have to leave work early to be with your kids. Trust me. Make something up – you, your partner, your dog – but never ever say it’s your kids.” I wrote about this before here.
Yep. Seems being a mum in the workplace doesn’t do much for your credibility. Best sit quietly and listen to the blokes talk sport (of which I might also have an opinion, but that doesn’t really count because I’m just a girl, right Campo?).
Then I started to write a blog and became part of an online community. An online community routinely ridiculed for being “self-centred bored housewives exploiting their children for cash because they can’t be bothered to go and get a real job”.
Because that’s why we do it, us mummy bloggers. Lazy…the lot of us. Oh, and the free washing powder, because we’re all desperate for the free stuff. And we only ever write about nappies and cupcakes too, because that’s all we’re capable of having an opinion on. No political or social commentary here thanks. We’re mummy bloggers.
Fortunately the good folk on ABC’s Media Watch set things straight about us mummy bloggers, especially when they gave some of Australia’s most talented bloggers those shrill bimbo-esque voiceovers.
Mummy bloggers were the focus of a Media Watch investigation.
And whatever you do, don’t mention the words mummy bloggers over the meeting table to those online experts at work. It’s enough to make their heads spin and spew green bile all over the meeting room walls.
Meanwhile it’s also been suggested that I shouldn’t use photos of my kids as my Facebook profile because that’s just lame. And at dinner parties I must suppress any urge to discuss the pressures of parenting alongside political and social issues because I might bore everyone, especially the men in the room.
Sigh.
Why is it in so many areas of our lives we are encouraged to conceal our motherhood like it’s something to be ashamed of?
Never mind that being a mother is the hardest, most demanding thing I’ve ever done. I’ve worked on some hairy corporate projects in my time, but nothing compares to the stress of negotiating a shopping mall with two children under the age of three.
Never mind that my productivity skyrocketed when I became a mother. I may not have as much time on my hands as I used to, but when I do work, I work hard and fast to produce the most productively rich hours possible. Long lunches or chats over coffee are a thing of the past for me.
“I don’t work! I’m just a mummy blogger.’
Never mind that when I do sit down to work during those childfree hours my mind is fertile with ideas, because damn it, this is my chance to engage my brain in something other than taking the sheets off the washing line.
Never mind that the mummy bloggers I read are actually talented storytellers who even sometimes write about stuff other than “life behind the wheel of a pram”. I know. Shocking.
Never mind that I’ve witnessed social media brilliance from some of these mummy bloggers that would give some so-called online experts a run for their money, while costing less to produce than an advertising guru’s morning coffee.
Never mind that I’m deliriously proud that my children are a major part of my identity and if I’m doing a good job pulling off this bloody hard mothering business, well then I’m going to sing it from the Facebook roof, sister.
Never mind that if some of those blokes at the dinner party listened to my rant about parental pressures they might see how they could help ease the burden their own partners might feel as they attempt to juggle motherhood and work. Or fatherhood and work. Whatever the situation. Whoever the primary carer.
Never mind that we keep banging on about the importance of good parenting to support a healthy society…and yet for some reason we don’t want to talk about the gritty detail, or come up with any real solutions to help us all fulfill our parenting roles as best we can.
Never mind all that.
Because I’m a mum and clearly for some people that makes me dumb. So I should just keep quiet.
Lisa Lintern is finding her own voice as a freelance writer and on her blog Melodramatic Me while running a corporate communications business. She is also a deliriously proud mum.You can follow her on Twitter here.
What do you think? Do you have kids? Have you ever felt like you’ve had to conceal the fact that you’re a mother from other people?
Comments
190 Comments so far
I have two young children & a career (part time for now).
Balancing work & ‘the rest’ is a challenge, but I’ve recently realized that complaining about how ‘hard’ it is is disempowering and exposes my lack of perspective.
I feel more competent, more in control & infinitely more satisfied when I think differently about my experience as a mother with a career – I’m grateful for my two healthy kids, I’m grateful for the activism that has meant I can pursue a meaningful career as a woman, grateful to have been born in Australia & been able to access an quality education etc etc
Being a Mum is rewarding, challenging & stimulating. Having a career is rewarding, challenging & stimulating. I’m infinitely grateful to be lucky enough to experience both & I hope my daughter, when she grows up, feels equally empowered about doing both if that is what fits best for her in her life.
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i had fertility issues…. so had to go on meds and finally had my baby after a long time of uncertainty and stress trying to conceive.
I wanted her so much in my life and felt blessed when she arrived. I was totally ready to have a baby a long time of waiting and praying. But despite feeling so happy and grateful to have her in my life, I found adjusting to motherhood hard. Particularly early on. I felt like I couldn’t admit that to anyone because of judgement. I own it – it was my decision to have a baby, but I think I have the right to be honest and say it’s hard, I am struggling. Because it was the reality. Ok, so some people don’t find it hard – but really I think heaps of people do. And being able to say it was hard and not beat myself up for it because and get support really helped my mental state. What I find hard about these discussions is that we can be so judgemental. Everyone’s experience is different. I don’t think motherhood is the hardest job in the world. I would still say it is hard – particularly to do it well and balance it with other parts of your life. And I think whether or not you find it hard depends on you and your baby. I was a perfectionistic person, who was too self-crtical, and would get consumed by the guilt of everything. My baby also had a “spirited temperament” (as described by the maternal health nurse) and so was not easy to manage. Motherhood is a journey – and I am finding it easier because I’m changing my ways to be more relaxed and understand my baby in a different way. It’s a learning experience that evolves and changes. It might be easy at some points, harder at others. You might have an easy baby, but a difficult teenager. Your primary aged child might get really sick, but you might have a healthy baby. This will affect your life differently. Different stages and different experiences.
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Like macgee, I wasn’t going to comment either. Mostly because I can’t from work. I can from home, although there’s a serious lag between submission and appearance, and like other have noted, have had many long comments disappear, so commenting is a bit of a gamble…my emails to Mamamia about this have also “disappeared”…
However. I agree with much of the sentiment here. Motherhood is not necessarily harder than other occupations, it’s just different. As of yesterday (I’m now on mat leave for the next year) I worked 3 days, and both my jobs taxed me equally. Just in different ways. Work is mentally demanding, but it sure is nice to sit down for a good part of it. Being at home with my kids is physically demanding (esp. approaching the 8 month mark) and really, really tests my patience. So it depends how you define “hard”. And (I think I’ve commented on this before, but it may be one that vanished…or not) we can really only judge experiences in the context of what has gone before. I can honestly say that I have never been so tired in my life as when I’ve had a colicky baby keeping me up at night and a toddler running rings about me during the day. That is my choice (except the colic bit…only a crazy person would dare suggest that is a lifestyle choice), just as it was my choice to stay out drinking till 2am on a work night in my 20s. I know which is harder, because I’ve done both. Is it as hard as a registrar regularly pulling 30 hour shifts over the course of a year? Probably not! But I couldn’t say for certain unless I’d experienced that.
I completely agree with whoever said we need to own our choices. I love both my jobs, and take pride in each. It’s a great balance. If you have time to blog at home, good for you. I don’t, but that comes down to my choices and priorities. One thing I really can’t stand is mums posting 20 statuses a day (and through the small hours of the morning) about how busy they are, a complete logbook of every vacuum, spill, trip tot he shops to buy bread, meditations on what to have for dinner, how they put off doing a photobook (?) until the coupon was due to expire (?) because they spent all day on facebook, and then had to stay up till 2am doing it…and then complain in the morning about how tired they are! There are SAHMs and SAHMs, and I tell you, some of them would benefit from working part time to regain some perspective, and learn to organise and prioritise again.
There are also mums who comment endlessly on facebook and other fora about what wonderful mothers they are – every day a magical adventure of craft, painting, trips to the park, everything wholesome and good…I always wonder what the kids are doing while they write these essays? They must be the ones who have babies that sleep, and houses that clean themselves
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Crackerpants, totally off topic, but I love the use of the word ‘fora’. I learned something from you today!
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I arrived home from work today to find the kitchen a mess, my hubbie watching surf videos, and the boys rampaging through the house. I decided that I’d left work too early, and in future I will become a SAWM (stay at work mum).
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Judgement of my choices as a mum can come when my kids are adults. Are they decent , honest caring people or are they selfish nasty and dishonest? These are the values that matter to me and I doubt any of these values are determined by whether or not I worked or stayed home when they were children!
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I am so over this “hardest job in the world is being a SAHM”
It’s completely untrue.
I did the SAHD thing for 3 years and it was the easiest time in my 33 year working life. I felt it was easy at the time and nothing I’ve seen will make me change my mind. I also did it while crippled with a spinal injury.
I don’t thing SAHM’s are dumb, it’s a valid choice and an honourable thing to do, and I found it particularly rewarding and fun, but the hardest job in the world? Spare me!!
Try working a 3 on 1 off roster in the Northern Territory in the middle of the wet season where a working day is 12 hours in the sun, try working underground bolting the ceiling so it doesn’t collapse. Try being a frontline soldier in Afghanistan. They are hard jobs.
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hmmm…..working mum….aren’t all mums working???……in one way or another…confused!!
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Maybe the kids broke some of them.
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I applaud Mummy Bloggers.They have enriched my life and made me want to do things better,strive for things and they have educated me through their blogs and followers.I really don’t care what men think of having their butts blown off from some rather intelligent ,resourceful ladies.You have created a new wave of female strength.Congratulations and I would hug you and award you at the same time.
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I wasn’t going to comment here – happy to let others argue it out. But, I keep coming back to it so I’ll have my say. I really dislike the term ‘working mum’. Men don’t feel the need to call themselves ‘working dads’. The same as the ‘single parent’ label. We are what we are – some mothers work,some don’t. Some are in relationships, some aren’t. Are the labels relevant in the work context?
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The differences are one is paid and one is unpaid, and societies view. I work both out of the home and in the home. I find they both have varying challenges and good parts. Often going to work is a lot easier. This is a hard subject to measure as every bodies situation varies.
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*shifts in seat and rearranges pillows*
*takes bra off and cracks knuckes*
*reclines slowly and reaches for the popcorn*
Do we really need to debate this?
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Generally I am not interested in ‘mummy bloggers’ because I find their need to overindulge in confession rather narcissistic and relentless. Occasionally I can be pointed in the direction of a good post or two, many of them are talented writers, but I can never sustain any interest beyond that. The subject bores me.
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I find the ‘is motherhood hard?’ debate seems to inspire really snarky, divisive comments here on MM. It seems obvious to me that some people find parenting exhausting, challenging and really difficult at times (while still taking pleasure and relishing the joys of their children) and other people take it in their stride, enjoy it, relax into it. Similarly some individuals have a wide variety of interests and enjoy reciprocal, back-and-forth conversations – while others have always been a bit self-absorbed and limited in their interests – irrespective of their status as a parent. Most of the time, to be really honest, I feel pretty wiped out by parenting (I think I do find it ‘hard’ or rather, tiring wrangling small kids) but I don’t presume that others find it that way, nor would I think any friend would stick around if my only conversational fodder revolved around my children or my apparent parenting struggles. In my friendships we enjoy talking about our families, our work, politics, our health (maybe a sign of aging?!) and good books and films and exhibitions we have seen. So, I think generalisations relating to mothers and/or those who do not have children are fairly unhelpful.
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For those women struggling with the whole work/life stuff…spare a thought for Miss Rabbit on Peppa Pig.
She flies the rescue helicopter, is the town librarian, school crossing supervisor, emergency first-aid responder, a receptionist and just today she was checking in passengers at the airport AND then became the cabin crew. Phew.
No wonder there is no Mr Rabbit on the scene.
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hhaha! i freakin’ love miss rabbit. she is one liberated bunny
))
my favourite scene; “shall we show daddy pig what the helicopter can do?” priceless.
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Shanny – my girlfriend and I were discussing Peppa Pig this week (it was the highest rating show on Digital TV on Wed, 267,00 viewers).
She said: “Oh I don’t like that Miss Rabbit. She sets an unobtainable perception of what women can achieve in the workplace.”
You think? How about an unobtainable perception of what rabbits can achieve? How must they all be feeling?
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Haha, I love Miss Rabbit…(isn’t she a nurse too? Or that is her sister?) I love the whole Peppa Pig ensemble in fact. But am I the only one worried about the arrival of the Wolf family on the scene… that Mr. Wolf is one sinister dude.
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Have you seen the episode where Daddy Pig is overseeing building the house, and it turns out to be for the Wolf family? GOLD.
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Yes! Loved it!
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She also has a stall at the top of the mountain and the other day she was taking tickets at the potato theme park!
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Gosh Deb, don’t let Alan Jones know that..she really is “destroying the joint” isn’t she?
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She also runs the fire station too, doesn’t she? And the Aquarium – ticket sales, shop and cafe! AND she’s the bus driver – she got an award from the Queen last week. Who of course joined the kids who all went along to see Miss Rabbit receive said award JUMPING IN MUDDY PUDDLES!
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And she runs the ice cream cart! She got awarded a medal from the Queen for most industrious citizen. Love Miss Rabbit!
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I’m pretty sure I saw Mr. Rabbit taking the pigs on a moon ride at the museum the other day but can’t be certain he’s actually with Ms Rabbit as the storyline was frustratingly under-developed.
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well, no, they don’t work. they are mothers.
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I wouldn’t refer to myself as a working mother. I work and I have 4 children but at work I am an educator.Motherhood probably takes up most of my life but I don’t want to be defined by it. When I was very pregnant with number 4, a colleague asked me if it was my first child. I was amazed that he didn’t already know, but actually quite chuffed that I could have different personas in different places.
Also, I think having your children as your facebook pic IS lame. They are your children, not you, and they don’t help people trying to identify you for friend requests.
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Nothing personal, Lisa, but I loathe these kinds of articles! As so many others have asked, when exactly has anyone labelled so-called Mummy Bloggers as dumb? And why, lord WHY, do mothers continually play the “sancitmommy” and “woe-is-mum” card? So many here have pointed out that raising a child is not as hard as others claim. Why the pity party, Mums?? And I’m not trying to be snarky, I’m legitimately attempting to understand why so many mothers constantly bemoan their lifestyle choices.
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Hey Carol are you an STFU parents blog reader? Just guessing from your woe-is-mum and sanctimommy references! Love that blog (and I’m a parent.)
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I think the huge difference in the range of experience of being a parent & raising children depends very much on personality, expectations & support level. The other huge factor is the personality & health of your children & how that affects people – especially their sleep. A breastfeeding mum choosing to feed exclusively that way is going to have vastly different sleep patterns to a mum who is mixed feeding or bottle feeding for example, who’s partner is willing to do night feeds. A parent with a child with reflux that has yet to be diagnosed won’t know why their baby wakes 10-20mins after they put them down every single time – that plays havoc with your ability to rest & sleep, plus the stress of dealing with an irritable & in pain baby. Sleep deprivation does things to you.
With regard to personality, a parent with perfectionist tendencies & control freaks – beware having kids can do your head in & until you learn to relax & go with the flow a bit. Clean freaks & those who love their spaces very minimalist are also in for a rude shock. Babies drool, wee, poo, vomit, gum their food, & explore their world by putting everything in their mouths. Parents can drive themselves nuts trying to attain pre-kids standards. Equally if parents are introverted & used to a lot of personal space, try having those needs met with kids who are generally so very affectionate & like to climb all over you.
The funny thing is you think you know stuff about yourself. You think that you are ready & that you know how you’ll handle things when you become a parent. You think that some things won’t change & that others so obviously will. But becoming a parent puts some things front & centre where you can’t help but look at yourself & your life & decide how you want to live it & what does & doesn’t matter. Despite choosing the ‘lifestyle choice’ you can’t always predict how it will pan out & what it will bring up for you or your partner about your own childhoods & parents, nor what it may bring up for your friends & family. It should be simple but sometimes it can be very loaded especially when there are people from dysfunctional families involved. Hope this gives you an idea of some of the factors that can affect experiences of parenthood, Carol.
I guess its like going to the snow & skiing for the first time. You know that it’s going to be cold & you know that it’s going to use muscles that you may not have used before. You know that other people rave about it but you really don’t how it will be for you until you do it.
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Great points you make. i find parenting differs from person to person.
Some just get on with the job at hand and make the most of every aspect.
While others have an absolute need to be a martyr to parenthood.
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So true. Great comment! How you experience parenting depends on:
- your expectations of yourself
- your personality – are you a perfectionist, neat freak, need control or self critical ( all will struggle)
- your child’s temperament and physical health
- your level of support (family, friends)
- your capacity to cope with stress / sleep deprivation (affects people differently)
- other stressors ( work, losing weight, family issues)
- your relationship with your husband
So everyone’s experience will be different. And even in the same family, you will experience parenting different children differently!!
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Amen. I wish this comment had 100 likes as it is sooo rational and normal and real. thank you
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I totally agree!! And I am a working mother of 3. Very well said.
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I’m a dad. That wasn’t my job, just a fact. From when my kids were born I always wanted to be responsible for half their care because I loved them & enjoyed being with them. When they were little I did a lot of the stuff like taking them to playgroup cos their mum, bless her heart, thought that was “suburban”, to her the worst insult you could throw. When their mum & I parted company, because I was not an irrelevance to them they gradually gravitated more & more to my care till they ended up with me as their primary carer. I fiigured I was still just a dad & never used the term “single dad” cos I didn’t think it relevant.
But on a slightly different tangent, being an equal parent wasn’t always easy. I had to assert my right to it with their mum, who like many mums subconsciously saw it as her domain. So many times when they were little if I dressed them, she would come in with “not that t-shirt, I’m saving that so she can wear it to mums on Saturday” or other similar ways of asserting her control. I would say “who’s robbing this stage coach?” but sometimes I would have to be firm with it. If she was parenting she could do it her way, but if I was, I did it my way. She was an intelligent person & could see the wisdom in my view so we did work it but not always without resistance from her. So if you are a mum and think dad isn’t pulling his weight, think about it. Maybe you aren’t letting him. And dads, stand up for your right to be an equal parent. It may be easier to let mum do the heavy lifting but then it will be your responsibility if you become nothing more than an income source to your kids.
My kids are both adults now and great people. I’m a gentleman (someone who has sufficient money not to work) so like mummy bloggers I have the time to waste reading & writing things like this? Fun isn’t it?
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Good on you, Crispychips!! It is hard to let go of control with parenting. I’ve had to accept that my husband does do things differently to me with our daughter & that’s absolutely ok. As she’s gotten older, she loves it too. Especially her & Daddy’s love of toilet humour, I actually now have to pretend to dislike all toilet humour when a little is mildly amusing to me, as she sees it as Daddy’s domain.
When our daughter was first born, I had PND. I had a lot of control issues & having a newborn brought these to the forefront. Had I not been able to accept help & let people, great people, do things their way to some degree, we wouldn’t have gotten through intact. My husband did night feeds with formula for example because I had to be medicated to sleep. His ongoing support & involvement in all aspects of our daughter’s care means that I know she will have a very close relationship with him. I’m not sure I would have been able to relinquish as much control had I not been so sick that I really had no other choice. It’s been one of those blessings in disguise for our family.
It is so easy for the parent who is home with the kids to have the lionshare in opinions etc regarding their child. We make any big decisions about our daughter together. I tell my husband about the funny things that she does & says throughout the day that he misses, especially things that I find indicative of new awareness or behaviours that will benefit him in knowing before he encounters them. I love that he wants to hear about this stuff & is actively involved in raising her. He does a lot more than the paid work & she & I love that.
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I think that’s more a case of the fact that you need new friends. Both before having children and after, I wouldn’t interrupt friends when we’re talking. That’s just rude!
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I would never conceal the fact that I am a mother. I would quit my job before doing that.
I feel like anyone who talks about anything too much is a huge bore. Mom’s who talk all day about their kids, men who go on about sports or their jobs – unfortunately, for some reason the latter isn’t as frowned upon so we have to put up with that more. Variety is the spice of life.
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A lot of people are comparing parents taking time off to care for sick children to other workers taking time off for appointments, pet care etc. They are not the same.
If a worker can’t come in to work because their child is sick, it is personal leave. If a boss allows someone the afternoon off to take their dog to the vet, it comes out of their annual leave, so the two are not comparable. If I have a day off (annual leave) for appointments, I only get another 19 that year. If a parent takes two weeks off to look after a sick child, they still get another 20 days of annual leave to use.
I have left two jobs with over 6 weeks in sick leave owing at each one, which I did not get to take with me. I know that during the same time at those jobs, the working parents (mainly Mums due to the fact I work in a female dominated industry) would run their personal leave out each year.
This meant that I would be covering for them, often doing both their job and mine and finishing late at night because certain things just HAVE to be done some days in our industry. The parents may put their head down the next day, but they still couldn’t do their job and mine because they have to leave at 5 to pick kids up etc.
Just to be clear, I am in favour of the laws that allow parental leave, as we do need to encourage people to have both a work and family life. But if I take a selfish viewpoint, I hate it.
This comment is slightly off-topic in relation to the article, but relevant to the comments.
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If we take “family leave”, for our kids, OR a parent that needs us, it all comes out of our own sick leave. We don’t get any extra leave. That way if we use up sick leave on our kids, well too bad then? We don’t get paid leave, unless we start going into our annual leave.
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Jeepers, I would LOVE this kind of leave. Where do you work? Sign me up Scotty! If I take a day off for my sick kids, it comes out of my sick leave. And if I get sick later? Boo hoo to me…. either no leave or no pay.
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I take your point Lucinda. I work in the APS, which would have to be right up there in terms of flexible, family-friendly working conditions. “Personal leave” (sick + carer’s leave) is not limitless, but yes, I can take it for my sick kids as well as for my sick self.
There is a flipside though, one which you probably don’t see. If I miss work due to sick kids, my colleagues pick up the slack where possible – and I do the same for them. The less visible bit is where I log in remotely once the sickie is having a nap. I work set hours, and finish early (nominally 4:30 but invariably closer to 5). I also start early – again, not so visible. I lunch al desko most days. And when push comes to shove, I go into work for 4 hours on a Sunday to get ahead/catch up, while the rest of the world brunches
I painfully aware of how I’m perceived in the workplace, and often feel I have to do that bit extra to compensate. Clearly that’s my issue, but it makes me feel better about the restrictions imposed by daycare and the kids’ routines during the normal working week.
Clearly not every “working mum” (and I never call myself that) is the same…but then, the steady procession of people heading home from 2pm yesterday afternoon were all child-free…possibly more a reflection on the APS than whether one has kids or not :-p Swings and roundabouts. I used to feel quite resentful toward colleagues with kids when I was young and single, but now I realise I was just paying it forward, and I am so appreciative of those who do step in to help when I’m unavoidably called away from work.
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I’m not a mother but all the other young women around me are sahm’s. Whenever we catch up they say things like, “I don’t work, I just stay home” or “Nothing just looking after the kids” and every time they do I have to correct them that no, you DO work, and looking after your kids IS work, not ‘nothing’. I remind them thathey don’t get to sign off at 5:00 or get sick leave. They definitely work.
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Why do you “have to” correct them? Maybe they’re just realists.
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But the double standard here is if they were working, they would be going home to do ‘the second shift’….parenting is considered nothing and not work if you’re a SAHM, but if you’re a valuable working mum, coming home to care for your children is suddenly a huge extra workload…
thats why SAHMs getted a bit annoyed!
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I’ve never thought of it quite like that Chillax. All I know is that when I was home with a baby and toddler, there was generally time during the day to catch my breath, have a cup of tea, potter around etc. It wasn’t all go, go go.
But when I went back to full time work with a 1 & 3 year old, it was insane. Flat out at work trying to get everything done, then home to the kids who were tired and grumpy – cook dinner, bath, read, bed. Then once the kids were in bed I had to do work (marking and lesson planning) before staggering into bed at 11.30pm… up at 5.45am to get everyone breakfast, dressed, dropped at daycare… Kids never slept well, I never slept well.
How well I remember the horror of getting to work at 8am and feeling shattered yet plastering on a big smile so I could put in a full day’s work. Teaching, like parenting, works so much better if you can do it with enthusiasm. And then I’d pretend it was all easy so my colleagues wouldn’t think I was a whinging working mum!!
Fortunately, it didn’t last forever. It’s all much easier now that my kids are both in primary school. I get sleep now which makes everything else so much more managable.
However, not sure that SAHMs should be ‘annoyed’ at the perception that working mums are more valued for working the ‘second shift’ – instead, I’d suggest they should be grateful they don’t have to do the same, and get on with that amazing job of raising kids.
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I can see that you are trying to be a supportive friend…but personally I would find that really patrionising.
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Lisa – aren’t you procreating just another set of negative, generalist myths about men that you hate when done about mothers who work? Men only like to talk about sport, they don’t respect mothers who return to the work place, they prefer women who sit quietly rather than contribute (that one stuns me the most quite frankly – who are you working side by side with?!).
You want women to be appreciated for the totality of their experience, and yet you just labelled every man in the workplace in a way that I know at least my own husband would be horrified by.
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My mum, god love her, said to me years ago when I asked why she didn’t brag to other people about our achievements like they all did about their kids, “Lolly, you and your sister are the most important people to me, but nobody else is interested.’ Very self aware my mother! My friends and I have a pact that if one of us starts talking about our kids too much when we become parents we will call each other out on it, lol.
It’s the same with any topic in life – if you only bleat on about the same thing everytime you see your friends, be it your wedding, your amazing holiday, your kids, problems with your in-laws, work etc. people are going to get sick of it. And you have to be inclusive – if there is one woman in the group who is not a mother then it’s nice if the others can include some topics that they can relate too as well. Sometimes when I go out with my friends (who all have/are getting PhDs) I can feel a bit excluded if they talk about stuff relating to that for too long as I feel like I can’t contribute beyond asking a few banal questions. Same principle.
Regarding the workplace, I’ve worked with plenty of mothers with young children, yes they often did have to leave to go collect a sick child, take carer’s leave days etc. No one begrudged them or thought they were dumb (I worked in fairly progressive places though) and sympathised with how often kids can catch stuff in childcare. I hope for the same understanding when it’s my turn, I know of plenty of workplaces that are not like this though. Please have good immune systems future children!
I won’t go into the ‘hardest job in the world’ thing etc. as that can make me ranty and one does not rant at a dinner party
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I am a mother of two (soon to be three). I work school hours at the office, and work at home when necessary, which is not very often. I also make more money than alot of my full-time no-kids friends. See, you can do both.
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Hi Mamamia team,
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but can you tell me if my comment was moderated and why?
I’m really not wanting to cause a fuss, but I’ve now spent quite some time typing up one comment to not have it appear (and be told it didn’t come through below) and then more time typing up another comment to have it not show up either.
I understand that you need to moderate things. My question is – is there a problem with your commenting system that comments aren’t making it to you? (which is obviously frustrating for you, and me as a reader taking the time out of my day to contribute)
Or if my comment was moderated, it would be great to have a firmer understanding of why so I can apply it to future comments.
Thanks in advance!
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Hey Wonka,
I don’t think your comment was moderated on purpose, but sometimes our spam filter picks up any comments that have links in them. We get thousands of (actual) spam comments every day so it’s not always possible to go through them, so can I suggest you not include links in the future – just in case!
Lucy
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I think having a baby changes your focus, not you as a person. I know I tend to talk about whatever is top of my mind, and guess who’s sticky little face is cropping up constantly?
Having said that, it still hurts that some of my friends have stopped talking to me because I don’t have the time to read the news in full any more.
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But how do you know that’s why they stopped talking to you? If you really only talk about your child’s “sticky little face” and don’t offer much else to the conversation then I can kind of understand why your friends would have stopped hanging around you as much.
I think it’s important for everybody, not just stay at home mums, to be able to have a conversation on a wide variety of topics otherwise you will alienate and bore anyone who isn’t in the exact situation as you.
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You sound like a high maintenance friend anonymous!!
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Huh, how? Because she doesn’t want to talk about someone’s child all day every day? Right, so high maintenance.
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I tend to agree a little…
I have children of my own and I get really annoyed with friends who speak to their children while they are on the phone to me.
My kids know that if I am on the phone they must wait until I’m finished, unless its an emergency, before they can talk to me.
I have friends whose kids talk to them while they are on the phone and the mums replies to them without ever telling their kids its rude!
People need to be mindful of manners, not everyone is interested in your child and if they are on the phone to you, the conversation does not include Mr 4 or Miss 7 too.
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I tend to agree with Anonymous. I don’t have much to do with previously good friends since having their kids, as the conversations generally go something like this.
Them: How are you?
Me: Good! Busy with work, but -
Them: *Interrupting* BLAH BLAH MY KID BLAH
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Totally! It’s like all your pursuits and interests are just so boring, self-centered and futile compared to the completely selfless practice of bringing another person into the world and staying home to care for that little person you chose to create.
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Beyond the guilt, which let’s be honest is sometimes all consuming, mothering is one of the least difficult things I do in my life. And it’s not always rewarding. And it’s often dull. And I like being able to go somewhere else and not be a parent sometimes.
I have two kids in primary school, and let’s be frank, I DO take more time off work than my colleagues who don’t have children. Why would they need to? My kids’ school calls me to pick them up because they’ve jammed something in somewhere far more often than my colleagues receive calls to let them know that their dog has fallen through the roof or whatever.
I am sick and tired of the glorification of motherhood as a profession. Almost half of the world’s population will do some mothering at some stage in its life. Full-time fatherhood is never touted as being “the hardest job in the world”, and I think that rather than it being a symptom of sexism in parenting, it’s actually just because it’s true. Parenting is not the hardest job in the world. It’s not even the fifth hardest job in the world. Any shmuck can do it, and they do on a daily basis. Do you think you’d go to a New Delhi slum and just hear the droning of women with babies on their backs exclaiming, “CHRIST! Parenting this lump is the HARDEST THING I HAVE EVER DONE!”
Women are taken seriously in many workplaces. I work with a number of mothers and they are generally organised, efficient and flexible and the business treats them in kind. That is why they are well respected (or not) at work – it has almost nothing to do with whether they have had a baby in the uterus and subsequently living in their house.
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Absolutely agree 100% …..the difficulty is that for some reason women feel they have to justify the choices they have made…. all the time …..if what you do works for you and your family isn’t that all that matters ?
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You’re awesome. Best post ever. Thanks!
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While I agree that it is possible to be organised and respected despite your parental status, I think you are generalising way too much. Yes, schmucks do it every day, but as a teacher, I often have to clean up the shit job the schmucks do. Parenting WELL and just simply parenting, are very different things.
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That is not to say that the harder you find it, the better you are doing it.
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But if only every workplace was like the ones you have experienced. I have worked in a number of different corporate cultures (I consult) and some are like the ones you have mentioned…but many are not.
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Great Post! Thank you! Fortunately my (male) boss has a wonderful attitude to mums – in his farewell speech when I went on maternity leave, he said I was leaving “to do the most important job in the world”. Be encouraged, there are some good ones out there!
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The only time the opinion of another person annoys, bothers or upsets us, is when there is some recognition or resonance with our own context of ourselves.
If I walk down the street wearing a low cut top and short skirt and someone calls me a s*#t (loose woman) this is going to roll right off me because I KNOW that my integrity is intact and I just like flippy skirts and getting my boobs out. However, in the same scenario if someone said my legs were too fat for that skirt, I would likely respond defensively, asserting that I have a womanly shape and am proud of my body. This of course is not entirely true, as I have the same body image issues most woman have if they’re honest.
I have three kids, one with Leukaemia, two have ADHD and I have had three highly successful careers both before and after kids. You know, parenting is challenging, mainly because we are more emotionally invested in it than anything else.
However, I feel Mummy bloggers do themselves a disservice by constantly appearing to validate themselves. From my perspective it’s a case of “methinks thou doth protesteth too much”.
You know maintaining a house isn’t rocket science, it’s basic practice in time and motion studies. I sincerely believe that if I spent two whole hours every week day to keep house for an active family of four in 4×2, I would be doing it wrong.
Has anybody not stopped to ponder the link between the sheer volumes of SAHM blogs and their audiences; with the amount of time available to SAHMs? Don’t get me wrong, I am a Mum who stays home, but make no mistake it’s because I get tons of time to read, write, research and stimulate my soul intellectually and spiritually any way I want.
I love it, but I own it. That’s why when I hear wives bleating about their husband’s fatal flaw of being untidy or not hanging up the tea towel; or how they have to nag to get them to do anything I just feel they’re overplaying their hand.
I KNOW this post has many of you feeling pretty upset at me, and that kind of is my point.
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“i love it, but I own it” yes to this, I wish more women would own their choices instead of looking for validation from others.
dont worry so much what others think, be confident in your choice!!
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“Has anybody not stopped to ponder the link between the sheer volumes of SAHM blogs and their audiences; with the amount of time available to SAHMs?”
Yes, I certainly have. On the one hand we hear mums constantly telling us they are the busiest people on the planet and they have never ever been busier prior to having kids and on the other hand we see them writing blogs and commenting on other people’s blogs on all the time. Something doesn’t add up. I highly doubt most doctors and judges have time for blogs.
I love your comment by the way.
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And try as i might there are very few working mum blogs out there… I’m a mum of four with a successful professional life and I would dearly love to read about more mums like me – just trying to keep it all ticking over and everyone on track – but i guess everyone else in my boat is as tired and busy as I am so we read the SAHM blogs rather than write our own.
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Great response. To quote the excellent Tory Maguire from The Punch ‘The internet is groaning under the weight of privileged women demanding acceptance of their life choices and feeling persecuted because not everyone is patting them on the back”
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I love this mumaswell! I have two days off work per week to be a SAHM and I get bored on those days.
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Why would you call yourself a working mum in the workplace? Surely the people you work with already know you have children (and obviously they’re aware you work)? I don’t call myself a working carer of elderly parents or a working carer of a mentally ill sibling. My title and my name are the only things relevant in the workplace.
As for Facebook, of course you shouldn’t have your children as your profile picture. It’s YOUR profile. Onto dinner parties, and I can’t tell you how many I’ve been to that have been ruined by someone bringing every single topic of discussion back to their kids eg. “The treatment of refugees is appalling. I feel terrible for the children. Speaking of children David has an ear infection…. I’d feel exactly the same if someone kept bringing everything back around to their job or hobby. Is it not possible for people to just discuss something other than their personal life for a couple of hours?
BTW, the “I’m more productive now that I’m a mum” thing bugs me. I get comments about my long lunches all the time from mothers at work. Thing is, when I take a long lunch I’m either with my team, or with a client. It might look like a boozy casual lunch, but quite often my so-called “time-wasting” secures new clients and new accounts. These same women often get shirty about my higher salary, but by their choice they only handle the smaller clients which means they can walk out the door at 5pm while I’m in meetings til 10pm. It’s a trade-off. And fyi, they spend most of the day doing paperwork I’ve finished by 7.30am. The fact that I then feel free to take longer coffee breaks in between meetings doesn’t make me unproductive, it’s just that I’ve already done half my work before they’ve arrived. Don’t discount the value of simply being available to help others or handle an unexpected crisis.
I’ve never heard anyone call mothers dumb. There’s a difference between calling someone dumb and suggesting being a mum might not be the hardest and most important thing ever. But guess what, some mums are dumb, just like some dads are dumb and some doctors are dumb and some plumbers are dumb.
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I hear you. I could not be more sympathetic to parents taking time off to be with their children, but ‘working mum’ really annoys me for some reason. It just comes across as a little bit… victimy somehow. As though the person in question thinks they have it so much harder than the rest of us. Or thinks they have it harder than stay at home mums for that matter! Or it sounds as though they’re using it as an excuse for lacklustre performance at work. We all have responsibilities outside work. Some of those responsibilities – sick parents or partners – can be more onerous than childcare, believe it or not. Maybe I find it so annoying because the ‘working mum’ I’ve heard it from most is a terrible whinger and professional victim? I’m sure not all ‘working mums’ use the phrase like that, but it grinds my gears because I always hear ‘working mum’ in this woman’s voice now… no matter who says it or how nice they are!
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My industry is notoriously mother/parent unfriendly. I rarely refer to the fact that I have children. Some years ago, when my daughter was 7, she fell off the monkey bars at school, breaking a wrist and hitting her head quite badly. The school called me at 1.15 pm on a friday, during the busiest service of the week. What choice did I have? I had to go. For this I was called unprofessional, and fired.
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Surely you have a case for unfair dismissal there…
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I can relate. At my 2yr performance review I was told by my manager that he didn’t support my return to work part-time as I was a manager of a small team and that they “needed” me full time. In the space of 3 months my position was dissolved and I was given another job. Whilst I am still coming to terms with my position change I am actually in a better role. I get more money and have one staff member whom is amazing, that reports to me. Still, it was discriminatory and against workplace policy.
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NOTE: We’ve been accused of over AND under moderating this post.
It’s a fine line to walk, allowing engaged and intelligent debate without it tipping over into nasty.
So please keep it about the issue not the person when you’re commenting.
And your understanding and restraint is appreciated in advance.
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Where did the comment on the getoffmyinternets go?
I was just reading it and came back to comment.
Sheeesh… I’m calling over-moderation Mamamia!!!??
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NOTE: We have been accused of over and under moderating this post.
It’s a fine line and we are doing our best to walk it. Your understanding is appreciated.
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Well fair enough – your call Mia … but that thread on Kelle Hampton was super interesting and I bet a ton of the people who comment here would love it.
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Sarah my work is really slow today and my manager is away, so I’ve just spent literally a couple of hours going through the GOMI thread. And just…wow.
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Yes. I have devoted a fair amount of the day to reading it too!!!
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Is it the Snark one that’s up to 37 pages? I’ve never heard of her or GOMI but I’m going to have a look around. I do love me a forum!
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haha I’m glad you guys like GOMI! A friend of mine, Alice, started it as an offshoot to another forum dedicated to the craziness that is Julia Allison. So many funny and batshit insane things to be found on that site.
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Unfortunately some really nasty, mean spirited and just down right spiteful things to be found on that forum as well.
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Cool!!! You know Alice! LOVE that site…. and fun to see some Aussie Mummy bloggers on there too
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I think it is more a perception than a reality parents take more time off than people who do not have kids. People who do not have children also have to leave work, or do not turn up for various reasons. Who has not had a co-worker who was hungover, had relatives visiting, had a fight with their partner, broke up with their partner, lost a pet, had to take a pet to the vet, had to go to the dentist, doctor, real estate agent, bank, accountant?
I am willing to bet that if someone did a study of a large company they would find that parents take a similar amount of time of to non-parents.
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My experience is that parents (including fathers) do take more time off than other employees. Parents have accountants, banks, vets, hangovers, relatives and illnesses too – and then they have kids to take into account on top of all that as well.
That’s just an observation though, I don’t have a problem with it as (in my current role) it doesn’t personally affect me or my workload… most parents I know happily admit that their work is affected at times but they usually try to make up as much of the work/time as they can (as do we all).
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I work part time and this school term just finished I the truth is I missed more work days that I actually worked. Sicks kids, dentist, orthodontist, concerts, music concerts, specialist appointments. Luckily its my family business and the understanding when I took the job was that my kids came first, but I would hate to think how I would cope if I worked for someone I wasnt related to!
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No matter how hard Jobs can be whether its parenting, brain surgeon, prime-minister etc for me personally the all consuming emotions (love ,fear, joy) when you bring a child into the world along with the every day work involved is the hardest most satisfying job in the world. I also work in a supported work environment ( thank you Odyssey house)!!where the mention of all our kids happens daily and surround myself with like minded people, Guess i’m very lucky
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I have a child. Have had him since I was 19. I consider my primary job in this world to be one of preparing him to be a productive and valued member of society. So yeah, given he is my priority in life, I’m gonna talk about him probably daily to other people I have to deal with daily (i.e. colleagues) and I’m even going to post things about *my* life on Facebook- this will sometimes include stories or photos of my child.
I’m also a lawyer. Have been for five years. I consider this my second most important job and once I leave my house in the morning and he is safely at school, I’m gonna talk about work for the majority of the day.
That’s what people do. They talk about their lives and if they have kids well that is part of their life! If that person is nice and not completely self absorbed, they might ask you about your life. Why is any of that an issue?!
For the record, I do feel bad when the school calls and tells me my kid is vomiting so I have to leave my colleagues to go to court. They probably feel bad when they have to leave work because they are sick, their mum is in hospital, their dog got run over. I don’t feel bad because I have a kid and I work and sometimes these priorities compete. I feel bad because something unexpected has come up to ruin that ever so unachievable perfect plan for the day. It’s just life people.
And can I just say that my colleagues have no problem hearing about my kid, especially when the story is that he drew a picture of his favourite movie, Ted (yes, yes inappropriate blah blah), with a bong in it. Awkward.
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lol re: Ted… awkward but funny
Love your attitude and you seem to have achieved a lot in your life by not letting other people affect what you do or what you talk about 
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Thank you charliemama:) I should point out that my son is 13 (still not an appropriate movie FYI!) and the picture was for his teacher. Hi steacher is also my neighbour. Aaaggghhh.
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Women simply cannot win. “Mummies” are “dumb” or a liability because they have kids and “non-mummies” are often considered to be selfish and unfeeling because they don’t or choose not to have kids. The sad part is that it is women perpetuating this belief. Before I had my daughter (at 36) I was often put in the selfish category due to my childless status. Now I have an only child (by choice) I am selfish for not giving my daughter a sibling. My friend recently had her 3rd baby and was frequently asked why she would even bother having a 3rd child when she had a girl and boy already. Cannot. Win.
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I also have an only child and am constantly told I am selfish and people feel “sorry” for my son that he does not have siblings..
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haha I love this comment from other people Clare – Yeah because he will NEVER get to see other kids in this entire world!!!
Cue the comments about the ‘sibling bond is the closet bond blah blah..’
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Definitely can’t win either way. I too had my only child (by choice) in my mid 30s and am now copping the “you need to give him a sibling” nonsense. This was after years of listening to how time was running out, why wouldn’t I want to have kids since I could afford to stay at home, etc. Most people didn’t seem to understand that if I’d listened to them and started to have children in my mid 20s, that financial security wouldn’t have existed. Nor would I have been high enough up the ladder to have the freedom to work from home once I did have a baby.
I especially love the look on acquaintances faces when after they’re done with their lecture on the horrible life I’m setting my son up for as an only child that I casually inform them I’m an only child myself. Never had someone manage to recover gracefully from that one yet.
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As a flip side to this, my mother (who is an only child) badgered me to make sure I had more than one child. She hates it.
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Why can’t we all just be comfortable with our own choices girls? We are all facing these challenges – juggling our life roles and do we ever really know what goes on behind closed doors?
Funnily, men don’t bang on as much as what we do, they just do what they do. Women judge women. Make your choice and be proud of it. Stuff everyone else!!!
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I don’t have children (yet) but I work with people who do and I find it extremely frustrating when they have to regularly leave work early or come in late because of their children and spend a large portion of the day on the phone to family.
If it was a random occurence and if their work didn’t flow over to the rest of the team it wouldn’t be a problem. However when someone else’s external needs constantly increases the rest of the teams workflow I have a problem with it.
I’m happy to help out on occasion and understand that family needs are important however when it becomes a frequent occurence it really does begin to grate and co-workers start to resent hearing about a family that has such a negative affect on their own work life.
That being said, I understand flexibility is important. However there needs to be a fair balance.
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If it’s as frequent as you’re saying, then that’s not acceptable. But I’ve never had this experience in 10 years of working life.. most of the mums I work with are hard-working and efficient because they know how important it is to be out the door at 5pm. But every workplace is different I guess
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I’ve said it before on MM and I’ll say it again…if your colleagues are *wasting* time or not prioritising, it has more to do with their general work ethic than their personal circumstances! People without kids ‘have’ to leave work early and take phone calls too. Sweet Jesus.
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The issue is that employers will often accept a parent leaving early or needing a day off, but they won’t accept anyone without kids doing it. I could maybe get away with ducking out a few hours early twice a year, and even then my boss would want to know why and what I was doing to resolve the issue so it doesn’t happen again. I could get away with scheduling a dentist appointment during work hours if it was a real emergency, whereas the parents in my office will take their kids to check-ups at 10am.
If you have kids you can definitely get away with more. I have elderly parents and a mentally ill brother, but it would only be acceptable for me to leave work when I still have meetings on the board if there was a real emergency. Meanwhile parents often leave because their child ‘feels funny’ or because they’ve forgotten to take a project or book to school and now mum or dad ‘has’ to deliver it. Often something like that will come up once a week.
I’m know the people who do this were lousy workers before, but now they actually have acceptable reasons not to do their jobs.
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I agree, I never miss my childrens assemblies, went to one today, another woman at work had to justify why she had to pick her parents up from the airport.
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Kate, while I agree with you that some parents take liberty with leaving work for their kids (i.e. the dentist is done on Saturday), what do you want them to do? Leave them at school or daycare? I’m in a similar boat, with the elderly in-laws, the mentally ill brother-in-law (all of which I seem to have to deal with more than my husband) and I have 2 kids. The difference is that unless it is an emergency the elderly parents and the brother can take care of themselves most of the time or catch a bus or a cab or something. The kids can’t. While I empathise, I really don’t know what people expect parents to do….
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No-one should rant at a dinner party. That’s just rude!
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Picardie.girl, I don’t think Lisa is ranting. She’s just telling it like it is. Mums rock! And we shouldn’t feel bad about saying it.
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I direct you to her paragraph above: “Never mind that if some of those blokes at the dinner party listened to my rant about parental pressures…”
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“She’s just telling it like it is. Mums rock!”
I don’t understand this “mums rock” business. I gave birth like billions of other women and now I am doing my best to raise that child, I don’t have the need to walk around telling people how “I rock” because of it.
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Jess – completely agree.
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Jess, your comment made me chuckle. It sounds so ridiculous when you tell it like is. Thanks for the giggle. Xoxo
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Actually Lisa stated that men should listen to her ranting at dinner parties.
I dont invite people who rant to my parties
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OMG Lisa I so agree. I am so sick of people thinking I am dumb because I have chosen to make my kids, my hubby and my home the centre of my existence.
Being a wife and mother is not only the most important job in the world, it’s the hardest!
So they reckon brain surgery, running a national economy, doing scientific research, taking on a big legal case in the High Court is hard? Ha! Try doing the shopping with a toddler! Try keeping the house spick and span with three kids! Try having a crafty meal ready for hubby every night!
I’m so not dumb but frankly I avoid reading about politics or international affairs cos its boring and who cares! How does it even affect me? Idmuch rather read about cup cakes and life behind the pram and I dont care what anyone says.
I’m a mum, a wife and a housewife first and foremost and I’m not afraid to shout it from the rooftop either!
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See this comment proves my point! Yes being being a Mum is no doubt hard but why must you have the monopoly on it? Why can there be NO OTHER JOBS in the world that are as hard as being a Mum?
Ever watched The Deadliest Catch? I reckon being a crab fisherman on the Bering Sea is pretty darn hard, men have lost their lives doing it. I imagine that there are quite a few mining jobs around the world that could give Motherhood a good run for it’s money and that’s just to name two!
May I also point out that Motherhood actually isn’t a job…it’s a lifestyle choice. You can choose whether you do it, most people however, need to work.
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Ummmmm…. having done scientific research and also some brain surgery (yes, really!), I’d argue they are much “harder” than shopping with a toddler (which I’ve also done numerous times).
Yes, being at home with kids is mind-numbing at times, but lets not continue to make comparisons about which is ‘harder’. It is all bit besides the point and just perpetuate the boring SAHM vs working parent argument.
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Also have you tried to undertake brain surgery, run a national economy, do scientific research, or take on a big legal case in the High Court? Or you jsut assume what you do is harder?
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Jesus. What is this, 1956?
I’m sure being a mother is hard at times. But I am also positive there are much, MUCH harder things out there.
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Well these are just the sort of negative and mean spirited comments us SAHMs are used to getting.
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I don’t see how disagreeing with you is negative and mean-spirited.
And please don’t tar all SAHMs with the same brush!
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I have run a matter all the way to the High Court. Plus done numerous trials and appeals to the Court of Appeal. I don’t have kids.
But I can tell you that appeals are f**king hard work. VERY hard work. Don’t compare it until you’ve done it.
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I’m a lawyer. I’m a mother. Neither of those roles is that hard. I find maintaining my social calendar and constantly thinking about what to cook for dinner more difficult than work or parenting!
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Guys…. I’m pretty sure she is joking (or trolling?!)
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I just responded above and really hope she was joking or trolling, there can’t seriously be a woman out there who thinks like this.
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You don’t read about politics or international affairs because they don’t affect you???
EVERYTHING is political. Regardless of what you think, EVERYTHING in your life is affected by that ‘boring’ stuff you dont care about. The education your kids receive. The price of your food. The roads you drive your car on. The kinds of shops available for you to shop within. The rules by which your house is constructed. Even the air you breathe is politicised.
I guess it’s lucky for you there are many mums – and people from every walk of life – who DO read about and show interest in this stuff, thereby influencing outcomes. Their interest allows you to live comfortably and happily in your own little world without having to think about those ‘boring’ things. It’s lucky for you the rest of the herd can do your thinking for you.
As an aside, I must say I generally disagree that there even is a ‘dummy mummy’ stereotype. I haven’t come across it much at all in my time as a mum – I’ve certainly read about it from defensive mothers on the net, but haven’t seen it in real life.
However, I would definitely argue there are plenty of dummies out there who happen to be mummies also. It’s not their status as a mother that makes them dummies -, it appears it’s simple ignorance and disinterest in the world around them.
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Two thumbs up for this comment
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Happy housewife, I find your comment so depressing, I actually thought you were being sarcastic writing it but I am not sure?
“So they reckon brain surgery, running a national economy, doing scientific research, taking on a big legal case in the High Court is hard? Ha! Try doing the shopping with a toddler!”
Surely you are being sarcastic at least with this part. I work with oncologists, scientists and surgeons every day and they seem to disagree with you but they’ve actually done both so they can make a comparison. Have you actually performed brain surgery or won a big case in High Court? I would be willing to bet brain surgeons find it easier shop with their toddlers than you know, remove a brain tumour.
As for your comment about politics not affecting you, I thought politics affected us all.
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I think Happy Housewife has her tongue firmly planted in her cheek with this comment.
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Oh my Lord, I’m a SAHM too but I don’t agree with just about everything you wrote about. I’m a SAHM because that’s what works best for my family at this point in time and I’m lucky enough to be able to do it, but I have not chosen to make anything or anyone ‘the centre of my universe’. I love my husband and my kids but I don’t think they need me tobe at home for them to know that.
And if anybody is wondering I’m a SAHM who would be thrilled to have a conversation about politics, international affairs and many issues as well as TV, movies, books, sport etc. The list of things I’m happy to converse about is limitless and by no means ends with my kids and ‘mothering’.
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just wondering whether you’ve ever actually attempted any of the above? I think they sound pretty hard.
It’s always easy to dismiss what others do, whether it’s parenting, working in an office, ‘brain surgery’…. or whatnot. Its human nature to overestimate how hard we ourselves have it and to underestimate how hard others have it. Maybe we can all try to cut each other some slack…?
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Hard work – I’ll tell you what’s hard work according to my four year old: belly sliding on a pillow like a penguin on wooden floorboards! It’s exhausting apparently.
Now please people, don’t say anything else is harder than xyz anymore. We’re all different & we literally can’t walk a mile in someone else’s shoes because we aren’t them with all their quirks & strengths & failings.
We don’t have to all get along, we don’t have to all agree but we can choose to play nice or as Zia said, ‘cut each other some slack.’
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Can I ask why my comment was moderated? Seriously, it was a differing opinion to the author, but it was not aggressive or mean spirited.
I don’t know why you bother to ask what people think if you’re only going to post the comments you agree with.
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Hey Wonka,
I’ve just combed through the trash and spam folders and there are no comments from you that have been moderated. Not sure what might have happened but it seems your comments never arrived at our end. Hope that clears things up! Your comments are always valued.
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Thankyou! I was going crazy trying to work out what I did that was so offensive! Will try again
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It’s a valid question, Mia. Why ask for opinions and then not have them see the light of day? It doesn’t mention anywhere that you guys premoderate, so obviously people are going to ask where their comments are.
I have also had a comment go missing on this post too. I disagreed but wasn’t nasty.
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Wonka was it you who linked to that thread about Kelle Hampton? I just spent some time on there and I thought this quote was too delicious to pass up:
“Actually, the way Kelle blogs about both of her girls shows that she hasn’t ever envisioned them as fully cognizant individuals with their own adult feelings and their own desires for control over their images and information about themselves. It’s like she’s never entertained any serious thoughts about them as people independent and separate from her, people who are – someday – going to have mature emotions, and opinions about what others get to know about them.”
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No – sorry, it wasn’t me.
For all thoughts and purposes I’m wracking my brain as to why my comment which I’ve now tried twice is not coming up. I truly believe it’s not snarky. It does disagree with some of the authors point, but in a fair way I think.
I’m being very serious when it would be nice to know why it was moderated, if it was. I’m just a bit confused as to how to frame comments from now on.
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I have returned to work part time with a 2 year old.
And while I am thoroughly supported being a working mum, I also know that I am never going to climb that corporate ladder to the top.
Part Time Mother are not traits they are looking for when promoting….
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I don’t think people are saying you’re dumb, they’re just saying that they are not besotted with your children.
They are the centre of your world, but truth be told, your kids just aren’t that important to everyone else.
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Best comment ever! I think this is it in a nutshell, mums of the world, please take note.
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Thank you Lou! You’re spot on. They’re YOUR children, not mine, while it’s lovely that you have them, I’m not overly interested in hearing about them 100% of the time, just as breeders are probably not interested in hearing about whatever non child related stuff I’ve been up to. It’s about balancing friendships IMHO.
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I don’t think it is a breeders vs non-breeders issue. I have my own kids and of course love them dearly, but TBH I’m not that interested in anyone elses kids. Especially those of old old friends. When I get the chance to catch up with friends I want to see and talk to my friend… I like to hear about their experience of parenthood. But the children themselves hold little interest. Truth me told – a photo (which I often see on FB) will suffice. I assume they feel the same way about my kids too!
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I have a child. My husband and I are the only ones in our circle of friends who are parents. Our friends 9/10 will ask about our son: what he’s up to, how he’s going with sport/school etc. It’s usually one of their first questions.
I also ask my friends about their lives.
I guess our friends aren’t just acquaintances but true friends who loves us and our son.
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I don’t think it’s really about concealing motherhood, more about not going on and on about it, or using it as an excuse for slacking off in the workplace.
I’m a mother and just like everyone else I love my kids to bits. But I am aware that not everyone else wants to hear all about them. And strange as it may seem, I don’t want to spend my life talking about kids. (Sorry just because I’ve given birth too doesn’t mean I want to hear all bout your precious little snowflake. Seriously save it for Grandma.)
I work in a female dominated industry. It seems to me that the mums who leave early often are also the employees who are the least professional in every other aspect of their job. We’re all human and at some time or another will need the understanding of our employers or colleagues. However some parents need to ask themselves whether they are just using their kids as an excuse to do less.
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Apologies, Kelly, I’ve posted a response in the wrong spot accidentally. Was meant to be a general comment not a response to you!
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LOVE this article. Just because I leave work at 5 to be with my son doesn’t mean that I don’t work damn hard while I’m at work! And just because I love being a Mum and I’m always happy to talk about parenting doesn’t mean that I don’t have intelligent opinions on other issues.
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You know what? You’ve got kids great! You love being a Mum? Brilliant. I just wish everyone would stop banging on about motherhood as if it’s the holy grail of life. As if, really if you haven’t had kids then you just haven’t led a fulfilled life. If you’ve never had kids, then you have NO idea what it’s like to be organised or tired or busy.
You don’t NEED children to have led a great fulfilled life. You don’t NEED to have had children to be tired or busy or organised.
Yes people can and do make light of motherhood but I’m sick and tired of Mums going on as if they are the only ones who have EVER been tired, or busy or super organised.
Maybe if “you guys” (Mum’s) stopped going on about how “hard” your life is, perhaps others would leave you alone?
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Agree x 10000!
And on that issue -
Our tax system is SO geared towards providing assistance for parents and families. With all that assistance it’s sometimes a little rich to pull the ‘poor Mummy’ card. As a childless person I’m getting sick of the government banging on about ‘working families’!
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I can understand that by not having children, you may find it a little frustrating to hear the government “banging on” about working families…would you prefer them to bang on about double income no kids couples? They must need a lot of assistance in caring for their dogs…The government bangs on about working families because in this double income world we now live in, it is bloody hard to make it when you have children and before you say people should consider their financial situation before procreating, think about how much each parent needs to earn to feel comfortable without assistance…I can tell you that they both need to earn WELL over the standard salary to be able to afford care for their children plus I don’t know, food and say a roof over their heads…don’t even get me started on a mortgage! Both myself and my husband are university educated, my husband with two degrees and I can tell you, without the government assistance we get we would struggle.
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It’s hard for everyone – students, aged pensioners, people with disabilities, unemployed people…
I’m just saying that ‘working families’ have it pretty bloody good in this country. $5k just to pop out a kid? I would have loved that financial support when putting myself through Uni!
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The $5k which has been cut to $3k was to increase the population in Australia. If you don’t populate who will be the next doctors and nurses to look after you when you get old? Unemployed people 7/10 times choose to be unemployed. Check out your local Centrelink.
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I have never understood the reasoning behind “well I’ve gone and had a baby, who’s gonna help me pay for it?” Having a baby isn’t a right or entitlement, it is a choice, responsibilty and privilege.
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As a mother of two kids, I’m sick of the government banging on about ‘working families’, as if there is no other type of family out there. Sorry but I’m yet to meet any family (kids, no kids, same sex – whatever) that doesn’t do some type of work, be that paid, unpaid or voluntary. What exactly is a ‘working family’ anyway, and how does it differ from other types of ‘family’?
Surely we deserve a government that should aim to be more inclusive of ALL families.
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Lou, spare a thought the for the families who are considered ‘too wealthy’ to qualify for any government support and are not ‘working families’ with 2 incomes either
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Like x 100
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Totally agree. I have 2 kids (with number 3 on the way) and I call bullshit on all the mums that say it’s the hardest job in the world. Mentally challenging, sometimes boring, full of rewards and of course you love them more than anything else in the world. You do need to be oragnised (especially if you also work) and you are often tired and busy but so are lots of other people!
It’s definitely not the hardest job in the world.
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Yeah, Peta, I was just thinking about this exact thing. What is SO HARD about it? I wholeheartedly agree it can be boring, and frustrating, and tiring, but what is SO HARD? If it’s as one person has said above “Try doing the shopping with a toddler! Try keeping the house spick and span with three kids! Try having a crafty meal ready for hubby every night!” So, do things differently. That’s all expectations and pressure you’re putting on yourself. And frankly, if that is SO HARD, I wonder what kind of job you’d actually be able to cope with.
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“And frankly, if that is SO HARD, I wonder what kind of job you’d actually be able to cope with.”
Such a great point Kris. I often wonder if you find this so bloody hard then what kind of a lawyer, brain surgeon or a scientist would you make.
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I always agree with you Kris, and this is no exception. I work, I have kids, I have a reasonably tidy house, I cook etc. I do have a helpful partner, and sure, sometimes I’m tired, but really, it’s not that hard.
And also, while I’m ranting, people are always saying ‘I’m judged if I work and I’m considered lazy if stay at home, I just can’t win’. Fuck me, seriously? Who judges you? What kinds of people are you hanging around? What dinner parties are you going to? I’m pretty sure that 99.9% of people could not give 2 shits whether you blog, you work, you stay at home, you bake cupcakes or you send you kids to childcare. Really, they don’t care. And if they do? Well that’s their issue, not yours.
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I don’t think being a parent is the hardest job in the world by a long shot…there are plenty of careers that are highly stressful and require commitment and love of the job to be successful.
However, the one thing that I do find ‘hard’ about parenting is the never clocking off and your life being governed by someone else’s timetable. If they wake at 3am you’re on. If they’re sick it doesn’t matter what you had planned, you’re on. If you are so bone tired you can barely walk you still need to feed and supervise so you’re on.
As a parent this is what you sign up for and it doesn’t make it the ‘hardest’ job in the world, but it does mean that when you have your first child you clock on and you never really get to clock off again.
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totally agree. SO HARD is watching your kid die of some horrible illness, not navigating the supermarket (and, yes, I have kids)
Everybody’s life is hard, and presumably you chose to throw kids into the mix. I swear previous generations didn’t used to bang on about how ‘hard’ everything was. It was called ‘life’ and everybody just got on with it
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What a great comment, can I like this a hundred times.
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Umm.. someone has to have the kids… I think it’s totally out of line for someone without kids to comment on what it is like to be a parent because really (speaking from experience) you have no idea. I always say to new parents that is like moving to a different planet. I’m a working mother in a professional job which many consider “hard” but let me tell you NOTHING is harder than the worry, guilt and responsibility that parenting brings.
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Oh seriously sam8? Are you for real?
I don’t have to have had children to know what parenting is like. I was a Nanny for 4 years and basically had sole responsibility of 2 kids from 6am til 8pm Monday to Friday – I’m still trying to work out why their parents even bothered to have them.
But no you’re right of course, I’d know sweet fuck all about parenting purely based on the fact that I haven’t squeezed one out of my vagina.
Please!
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I work with mothers and fathers who regularly leave the office early or take days off because of their kids. I have no problem with this, I understand it has to happen from time to time and I actually really love seeing all my workmate’s kids when they’re brought into the office and hearing about their lives.
However, we all work fairly autonomously and so my workload is never affected by my colleagues taking days off (if they miss a day they have to catch up on what they missed themselves). I admit that if my work was affected and it was a regular thing (by regular I mean more than the average employee’s absences for sickness etc) I might start getting annoyed at it too.
Is this the case with the mothers reading here? Do you think your absences (if any) are affecting your colleague’s own work, thus causing the negative reactions? Or are people simply being unreasonable for no apparent reason?
Also, while I’m at it… the term ‘working mother’… do people really use this in the workplace? I get that it’s an apt descriptor for some people when talking about what they do to people outside of the office but at work, are you a working mother or just a plain old worker like the rest of us? I don’t call myself a working student or a working golfer to my workmates…. I find it a bit odd is all, I’ve never actually heard anyone use it in real life though.
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As a working parent, my observation was that generally the working parents were working more effectively during the day as they knew they had to be out on the dot to pick up kids etc.
A lot of non-parents would take long coffee breaks, have long lunches, and finally settle down to get through their workload in the late afternoon, and then stay back to complete it….
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The vast majority of us at my work are parents, with the majority of of us having dependent children. If someone does take a day off, leave early, it can affect us, because we may have to see their clients etc. no one complains though, because we all co operate and pick up each others slack. I know some parents can take advantage of the fact that they’re parents at work, but I imagine they would have been like that in some way regardless.
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Re “it’s also been suggested that I shouldn’t use photos of my kids as my Facebook profile because that’s just lame. ”
I actually agree somewhat. Sure, use your kids pics sometimes but when every pic is of your child rather than you (it is your profile, after all, not theirs) it does give the impression that you are no long an individual in your own right and are consumed with your child.
And re “I must suppress any urge to discuss the pressures of parenting alongside political and social issues because I might bore everyone, especially the men in the room” – its fine to talk about your kids. Just make sure its the only topic you talk about.
I dont have children yet so I’ll probably get blasted for my views here.
But a conversation I had with a friend when she had her first baby strikes me as the perfect balance. The first time I saw her with her daughter, we spent the first part of our castchup talking about her kid. Naturally. its a huge development in her life and I’m interested. But then she changed the topic and made sure to ask what was going on in my life.
It shouldnt be so hard – and I’m not blaming the childless or the parents here. Just saying we should all show an interest in the lifes of others and not expect that people are consumed by the topics/issues that interest us.
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Agree with the last paragraph 1000%.
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I have a kid and I agree with you completely. Ever since I saw how my best mate was treated when she was pregnant nearly 20 years ago, I have made a point of talking about stuff other than the pregnancy/baby/kids with parents.
If you want to make a reputation and maybe even a living from blogging, about your family life, why pretend you’re doing anything else?
Also, how many blokes at work are “working dads” and talk about their kids all day? Anyone who did that or talked about or prioritised their partner or whatever else constantly at work would be inappropriate.
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Agree 100% Kris. Being a parent is a great part of who you are, but it’s not the only part.
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YES. Show an interest in other people and their lives and interests and they will show one in yours. Fair’s fair.
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I do have a child and I agree with you 100% Sarah. I was at a work conference overseas a few months back and because I didn’t come armed with 200 photos of my kid and tried to steer the conversation to other things, I was the odd woman out. One female colleague suggested passive-aggressively that I must have bought a new phone at the airport since my kid wasn’t the screensaver. Another one privately said to my boss that she doubted I had a child at all… she was convinced I was the nanny or a demented aunt. Thirty some years living on the planet and all of that entails is now supposed to be reduced to the fact that I gave birth? Yeah, I don’t think so. Tell me a funny anecdote about your child. Let me know they’re healthy and how much of a genius they are because they aced Baby Mozart at 3 days old. I’ll reciprocate. But if after about 15 minutes you’re still droning on, rest assured I’ve tuned out and I expect the same in return.
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Small point, but one that needs to be made. Media Watch have 2 voiceover artists, one male and one female (there may be 3, but I’m not entirely sure). Same people are used week in, week out. The ‘shrill’ female voice you speak of I didn’t find shrill, but then again it was the voice I hear on the show most weeks anyway.
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I can’t comment on your experiences as work, but I did see the Media Watch report and thought it was pretty fair. Media Watch’s job is to pull up journalists and communicators who aren’t adhering to the rules and some of the personal bloggers they featured weren’t. As for the shrill voice-over, I didn’t think it was shrill at all- I thought it was trying to be colloquial, to match the tone and content of the writing of the blogs themselves.
As for people not wanting to see your kids on facebook- I’m sure there are plenty of people who don’t want to see kids on facebook for a lot of reasons, but have you thought about this one: You’re creating an online identity trail for your kids that they haven’t asked to be involved in, that they’re too young to comprehend and that they will have to contend with when they get older.
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