I’m not a Chinese mother. If there was any doubt about that, it’s definitively been obliterated by a mirror and a book I just finished called Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. You may have heard of it.
Written by Amy Chua, a first generation Chinese-American law professor and mother of two, this book got a huge blast of press when an excerpt ran in the Wall St Journal earlier this year, listing some of the things a Chinese mother would never allow her kids to do. These included:
- attend a sleepover
- have a playdate
- be in a school play
- complain about not being in a school play
- watch TV or play computer games
- choose their own extracurricular activities
- get any grade less than an A
- not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama
- play any instrument other than the piano or violin
- not play the piano or violin
After that excerpt ran, poor Amy Chua copped it. There was much strenuous flapping from those who disagreed with the Chinese Mother approach. Chua was accused of being a child abuser and even received death threats.
Since I’m drawn to anything that causes so much fuss, I immediately downloaded the book on my Kindle but I was reluctant to begin reading it. I’m not big on parenting books, you see. My shelves are full of them but they always seem like homework and make me feel like a failure.
A few pages in, I was relieved to realise it’s not a manifesto or even a parenting book. It’s a funny, self-deprecating memoir about how you totally know what kind of parent you’ll be until you actually have a non-imaginary child.
Amy Chua knew she’d be a Chinese Mother. It’s how she was raised and something she never questioned. Neither did her husband who isn’t Chinese and who occasionally expresses surprise at his wife’s intense approach but tacitly supported it.
Chua has spent years pondering the philosophical difference between Chinese and Western parents and concludes that it comes down to this: self-esteem.
Western parents are obsessed with their children’s psyches. Chinese parents aren’t. But it’s not because they don’t care. As Chua explains, Chinese parents assume mental strength, not fragility, and as a result, they’re able to push their children far harder to achieve great things.
“Western parents try to respect their children’s individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment,” she writes. “By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they’re capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits, and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.” Even if it means up to six hours of violin practice a day. More before a performance.
So are high standards, scrupulous consistency and extreme discipline the key to child rearing? If so, I’ve stuffed it.
Forced to describe my parenting philosophy, I’d probably say this: whatever it takes. Or this: the path of least resistance. Or this: high on cuddles, low on consistency. Yes, I know inconsistency is terrible but in my defence, I come from a long line of inconsistent mothers so I think it’s genetic.
My Mum laughs sheepishly now when she remembers how easily she’d reverse her decisions when my brother or I mounted a convincing counter-
argument. And it seems I have inherited the U-turn gene.
I once read that a parent gives in the ninth time a child repeats a request (this is clearly how children learn to nag). Did you used to get all the way to nine? Do your kids?
My automatic response to one of the 2000 requests I field each day is often ‘no’ but then I’ll pause to consider it and think ‘well, is that ‘no’ really fair? Why shouldn’t he have one biscuit? Or watch the end of Yo Gabba Gabba? Or skip her bath? What harm will come of it REALLY? And that’s how “No!” becomes, “Oh OK…”
That’s also how the value of my ‘no’ currency has been devalued to such low levels that my children barely raise an eyebrow unless I shout.
Every household usually has a good and bad cop (except for single parents who exhaustingly have to be both) and in my house, I’m invariably the one saying “more biscuits for everyone!” while my husband is teaching them how to brush their teeth.
Most households work in reverse according to a recent survey by The Australian Institute of Family Studies, which shows that mothers are more likely to discipline the kids (80%) vs. fathers (75%).
You’re desperate to know how the Chinese Mother approach turned out for Amy Chua, aren’t you? Well, of her two daughters, first-born Sophia thrived under the highly structured and tough Chinese approach.
Her second daughter not so much. Lulu gave her mother and her Chinese methods the bird in the way second children so often do. Ultimately, Chua admits that her story about how Chinese parents are better at raising kids than Western ones turned out to be one in which she learnt the lessons. Your children teaching you about yourself? Well, ain’t that the truth.
Who is the good cop and bad cop in your household now? What about when you were a kid?









Comments
62 Comments so far
I’m 16, and even though my mum has always been the hitler of the household, I respect her for that. I get good grades at school, and I think that’s partly due to the fact that she taught me from a young age that schoolwork is pretty much the only non negotiable thing in our household. Annoying at times, but worth it when you get the A and the sense of accomplishment at the end. She also never pressures me to do more than my best and lets me do whatever extra activities and sports I want. That said, I go to a private school in an area with lots of Chinese people, so there are oodles of those girls who have been brought up going to tutoring for 6 hours every second day and who have the tiger mums, and to be honest I don’t really see proof that that method is more effective than having a nurturing family and a normal school life. I really don’t agree with the approach of Amy Cha, but each to their own I guess!
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My Dad was definitely the good cop! Anytime I wanted anything I always asked Dad because I knew he would say yes whereas Mum would nearly always say no! The closest Dad ever came to saying no was when he said “Ask your Mother”
Also, Amy Chua reminds me of Lane’s Mum in Gilmore Girls!
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Us too, dad was always the soft touch and mum the disciplinarian. Didn’t alter our relationship, mums my number one xx
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My husband is “more biscuits for everyone!” man in our house
And I love him for it, he’s a really good and fun daddy. It’s just lucky I’m there to make sure she brushes her teeth after
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I am more often the good cop than my husband but we are both bad cops when compared to my parents! My kids spend a lot of time at Nan and Pa’s where they are treated like little emporers. It doesn’t seem to have done them too much harm so far.
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In our family I am tough – but their dad is tougher.
I love them to bits and both of the kids know they can come to me with anything ….. but if I say no it means no, if you are silly enough to ask again then it is off to your room.
Having said that I only ever say no if I have thought it through, mostly I tend to say “we will see” or “maybe”.
I won’t stand for talking back or bad attitude and amazingly enough people are always telling me how great my kids are to have around.
Reading back it sounds like I am awful, but I believe to be part of a family you need to respect each other and consider each other – but in the end we are the grown ups and they are the kids.
I think it is my job to make them as nice, smart and kind as I can.
We have lots of friends over and lots of outings, but if you misbehave the next event is taken away – simple.
Strangely this is just how I was raised (don’t most people do the exact opposite of what their parent’s did) and it doesn’t seem to have caused me any harm
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Im the bad cop. I am consistant, say no often, make her eat veges, expect manners, make her learn to swim etc etc.
her dad who she sees on the weekend is the opposite, she is boss and she does what she likes. eg “sure you can eat cake for every meal”
This used to worry me, as I thought she was going to hate me and want to be with “fun parent”. My mum pointed out to me I am lots of fun too, but she respects me. Not looking forward to teenage tantrums tho
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Our house: Mean Mummy, Fun Daddy.
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I am the fun police in our house. Except when I’m not. Like right now when I’m feeding my middle daughter food colourific birthday cake as she watches TV. My husband is usually the soft touch, but irritatingly the girls listen to him immediately when he does discipline them. Although that’s an unusual situation. Usually I’m the one forced to explain to unreceptive preschoolers why jumping on the lounge with a handful of pencils is a bad idea.
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Mia, firstly thank you for actually articulating what Amy Chua’s book is really about, a fantastic read and the underlying lesson is sometimes you just have to be a little bit flexible and adjust your parenting styles to suit the child. The moral of the story, our role as parents is to set our children up for success. You don’t always get a prize in parse the parcel kids!
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Mia, my approach is much like yours. Path of least resistance etc. I am also inconsistant – sometimes I’m hardarsed and others it’s ‘whatevs’. Luckily my husband is more consistant – ergo the girls always come to me when they want something. If I’m tired I just say “ask your father”.
Despite this they are quite nice girls with good manners and healthy teeth.
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I think our children got stuck with two ‘bad cops’! Happily though, while we don’t back down once committed, we do try to play it fair and not make the consequence outweigh the misdemeanor. I guess we get it right 70% of the time!
The thing that I am learning from my children is that they seem represent all of our bad points under a spotlight! I’d hoped for their father’s height, my compassion, their dad’s maths ability, my love of literature, but while I can tick some of the above, they also inherited plenty of things we’d rather not have passed on to them. I always think that, if a teacher is pointing out a (thankfully relatively minor) issue, they are looking at me saying ‘this is YOU isn’t it? You’re the one who always wanted to be the centre of attention’! Our son in prep was recently outed as particularly prone to distraction…now, what was I saying?? Oh yeah, so, our children, who we are trying so hard to grow into great human beings, are showing US just how mal-adjusted we were, and deep down, probably still are!
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I am the bad cop more often. My husband tends to do what’s easier for himself, rather than what’s best for the kids! It can be a bit undermining, and sometimes I MAKE him back me up. On the big issues though, we are pretty similar in what we want for our kids.
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At my house my parents always said that the votes were based on the weight of the person making them haha. A bit random but I guess it worked. Mum and Dad’s votes always weighed the most. They were very consistent and always had a united front. I think it was good in the long run.
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I am the bad cop/fun police who makes them do all the boring stuff like eat vegetables and homework…Dad gets to do the fun weekend stuff like go to the beach….I just hope they will both appreciate me one day…probably when they become mothers themselves…….
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I have just spent this weekend playing both good cop and bad cop. Husband was away for the weekend and I was single parent to 4 month old and 3 year old.
My goodness I have always had respect for single parents but after these last two days my respect has more than doubled!! I was sick with a head cold all weekend and I had no other choice but to battle through – there was nobody to relieve me.
Respect and support for single parents who have to play good cop AND bad cop 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
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Thanks sister, cool to hear it from another mother x
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Definitely agree with you on this one Cos. I could never be a single parent by choice – but then I guess not many are, are they? I have a lot of respect for single parents.
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My parents were very strong on presenting a united front so if they ever found out you’d gone to one parent after already getting a no from another, you were in BIG trouble. That said, they were stricter on different things.
My mum had strong rules about not growing before your time so she was very strict on things like nail polish, shaving your legs, dying your hair etc. My dad’s sisters used to fight terribly so my dad was very strict about us kids fighting whereas my mum used to let it go to an extent.
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We are both pretty similar. No means no, we very rarely cave. I don’t see the point of saying something generally but especially not to a child, if you don’t mean it. I do try and stop and think each time about whether I’m being unreasonable or whether there is a better deal to be cut first.
I haven’t read the book, but agree with the principals. Especially consistency and reasonably high standards and discipline (but not extreme) I don’t like to treat children as though I’m at permanent risk of damaging them – they are way more resilient than that. I also can’t approve of all this ‘babying’ I see of toddlers. They don’t need bottles and dummies after their first birthday if they can use a cup. I hope we are raising someone who is self-reliant – even if it takes an irritatingly long time for Red Rocket to dress herself! I knew she was capable of doing that from 2, so wouldn’t do it for her.
Same with older children, we had 11 year olds last week who came and asked their dad for a glass of water. I thought it was lovely manners to not just fossik in the kitchen and help themselves. When I told them there was a stack of cups on the bech and to help themselves, they looked shocked. Dad jumped straight up to get it for them. Treating 11 year olds like incompetants is just bizarre in my opinion.
I probably depart from the same theories when it ocmes to education. Mainly because it doesn’t seem to work. All the pressured kids I knew at school ended up lying around smoking dope at 21. I do wish my parents had put a tiny bit of pressure on me, they were of the ‘its your life, have fun and be happy’ hippy brigade. I ended up doing well at school but they never suggested instruments or drama etc and when I showed an interest it always seemed to be a big drag for them to take me to classes etc.
Which is the crux of the issue in relation to modern life. A lot of this stuff takes a huge amount of time and effort. I might have the mental effort for the consistency, but not for standing over a piano for hours on end. I don’t know how some of those mothers fit it all in!!!
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Should I ever be in the position to be a parent, there will be no good cop/bad cop situations in this house.
Rules are rules. No means no.
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Ha, ha, ha, the pronoucements about what will happen when we are parents…I wish I could remember all the things I said I would never do, oh wait, it’s all the things I do now…
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Ah yes…few of mine were:
“my child will not rule my life so will sleep in a portacot or pram/stroller wherever I happen to be during their nap times”
“how ridiculous are these parents who ask visitors to walk round to the side or back of the house just so they don’t wake up the baby whose bedroom is near the front door??? I will never do such a thing!”
and…
“I will never need to reason or negotiate with my child – what I say goes”
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Yeah that was me too before I had kids! I was so sure…
Now it’s more “No means maybe…”
In our house my husband and I are strict on different things. He’s stricter on nutrition and tooth cleaning, I’m stricter on the dinner-homework-bath-bed routine. But I’m a big softie during the day, my “no’s” are often worthless sorry to say!
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Haha! I wasn’t going to say shut up, ever!
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Me either, never, ever, ever.
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Lol Bradley, I used to think that do before. Had kids, and that I wold never do deals . 11 years later I have accepted that some rules are not always black and white and their are man shades of grey in between. Don’t put so much pressure on yourself.
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so many opinions on the threads today Bradley, how ideal you must find your opinions to be! Life happens…..hope you are prepared for the unexpected gift of a child with their own “will”. Oh, forgot you will control your child’s destiny, good luck with that! I’m sure you will always sit comfortably while your child’s Mother trys to live to your standards, God help her if she has to move while the baby is being fed! Rules are your rules, that is how judgmental you come across in your posts. Love Jaquie O supporter. X
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Brad, I can honestly say that this means you’ll be the bad cop. Seriously, lol! I should know, I’m the bad cop in this house
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Literally as I was reading this, my husband gave my 17 month old a hot cross bun and a poppa full of juice. Half an hour before dinner. (Juice is banned in our house by the way, due to high sugar content). I had to go and take it off her. Pick the bad cop!!
Luckily, she still loves me more than juice right now!
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We take turns, I find that when the kids are young, I tend to do it all, but my hubby takes over as the ‘fun police’ as they get older, then no seems to be his automatic response. Teaching kids resilience, self reliance and problem solving are the hardest skills I think.
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As a single parent, I wish there were another cop I could handball the hard decisions to or another cop that would stand shoulder to shoulder with me whilst I tell 15 year old ‘no you can’t go to that music festival, 12 hours away in an old Datsun 120Y driven by your mates’ brother who has had his P-plates for two months!’
Oh..and bad cop to my 10 year old ‘No you can’t play Car Town – you have homework’ (replay this fourteen times in an hour and see why I get a little demented!)
But having said that, good cop is fun (yes you can have a pyjama day!, yes you can lick the inside of the Nutella jar! yes you can hang at the pizza shop with your friends – just be home by 9pm!) and there is no other cop to contradict or undermine your authority.
Still..would love another cop in the house one day
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Same here… would love to have someone help when master 7 & 8 play up especially in public.. hate the looks of ‘what do you expect from a single mother’..
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I seriously doubt that is what the looks mean. Unless you wear a sign. Don’t put that kind of pressure on yourself!
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This is a bit of an aside, but kind of relevant and interesting given the timing of this particular topic, but a “Tiger Mum” was murdered in Adelaide earlier this week and her 19 year old son is wanted for questioning over the murder. The boy has since fled Australia and police suspect he is headed to Singapore and/or possibly China where his family are from. The boy is apparently a very high achieving, successful student from a prestigious Adelaide private boys college who often talked to friends about how his mother would “push” him to achieve perfection. It will be interesting to see how this case unfolds and whether Amy Chua’s book will cop more flack because of this murder. I feel so sorry for the husband/father … he has not only lost his wife, but now also his son. He must be devastated.
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My wife IS a Chinese mother and she says she has never heard of any of her friends being like Chua, other than to encourage the children to learn, probably a bit harder than Aussie parents, but not with Chua’s extremes. And no wonder for my stepson in his early twenties would have to be the laziest person I have met. The boys are a bit spoilt over girls in China.
In my first marriage I think my wife was the cop and I was probably a fourth brother to my three sons as well as a Dad. Probably because I was an only child? The most important thing to set them up for life that I feel proud of is that I gave them a zany sense of humour. I’ve never seen a true humorous bad kid!
I think the work ‘encourage’ is better than ‘push’ for kids.
And if possible, find them reliable mentors as they may listen to them rather than parents.
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9 requests before parents give in? Wow……I cave in after the third almost every time!
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Mia, I so relate to you for this one -I am such the good cop in our family! WHich I love most of the time. I too can be convinced to change my mind by a good argument – I like to think that I’m training my 4 year old in logic and rhetoric, not being inconsistent! My automatic response to most requests is ‘yes’ unless I can really see a good reason why not. My hubby is the opposite – he’ll say no just because he can’t be bothered. Sometimes he gets cross at me because I give in too easily, but I’m much more laid back than he is so things that would drive him mad (like excessive noise or constant questions) don’t bother me. And crying/tantrums never works.
I’m super strict on manners though, much more so than many parents I see. I think it all evens out in the end!
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It’s so true that our kids teach us about ourselves. Mia, I love that you acknowledge how freaking scary parenting is, and our common fear of not getting it right.
I’ve run both ends of the good cop/bad cop spectrum. I was raised very totalitarian so that’s initially how got started on my oldest, as time went by though, I felt more and more like a monster, till I couldn’t handle it anymore. By the time my son came along, I was quite sadly delinquent relying on my partner to play the role of enforcer.
I’m trying to find more of a balance now, researching parenting books and getting advice from those wiser than I.
I haven’t read the book, but I did grow up in an Asian country and spent some time in China as well. I enjoy books written from alternative perspectives so will definitely keep an eye out for it.
From the comments about Chinese parenting and self-esteem, I think cultural differences play a role in it too. Most Asian countries do not value individuality and creativity in the way that Western ones do, the expectations are completely different. I think the difference is much more stark for kids with Asian standards growing up in Western countries.
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I’m definitely the bad cop.
Just as an aside, I read Tiger Mother and kept wondering how much of it she really meant and if some of it wasn’t for comic effect… anyone else think that? I just didn’t quite believe it. Perhaps I am naive…
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I think she said it was meant to be funnier than people took it (something along those lines) during her interview on The Colbert Report?
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I’m on the “whatever it takes” train. So far it’s made my four year old confident and happy and considerate of others, sometimes I say no but she gives me an arguement that makes me reflect that maybe I am saying no just because.
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My husband calls me the ‘fun police’. enough said.
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Me too
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My friend’s family call her “Witchy Poo”. Most of the time she doesn’t mind!
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Oh I am definitely the bad cop, to the point where I feel like I have no fun with our son who’s about to turn 3. The weekends are definitely more relaxed as Hubby is home to take the pressure off.
At the moment I am trying to deal with preventing Z from squahing, crushing & hurting our 9mth old daughter.. Who he loves and adores, but is trying to express that in not so loving and adoring ways.
I’m also trying to undo the impressions of an older cousin who thinks it’s okay to spit, be nasty and give lip at every chance.
Not to mention my zero tolerance on throwing toys, kicking, biting, spitting & hitting…
Any words of wisdom are more than welcome, have worked out smacking doesn’t really work, taking toys away works sometimes, standing & thinking about it sort of works, but when we are talking about up to 20 times a day it wears a bit thin… I know, I know patience is a virtue.. distraction etc oh & I probably need to relax my standard a bit…
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I found the stage you are going through the hardest too. I think it’s the age and you have to lay a lot of ground work down (which you are doing!!)for the pay offs to come. They will come, so hang in there
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Hey Kate… I have a 3 y.o Z who loves squashing his baby sister too! I haven’t read any parenting books really (except for Baby Love which I adored), but someone recommended ’1-2-3 Magic’ to me… I borrowed it from the library a few months ago and it’s made a big difference to life around here, I highly recommend. It was tough the first few days and he spent a lot of time in time out, but since then all I have to say is ‘one…twooo’ and whatever he’s doing stops – really quite amazing!!
Best of luck
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I’ve recently started on 1-2-3 Magic as well. I’d always given it a miss in the past, thinking why do you need a whole book to count to 3 and give a time out, but the book is so much more. It’s helped me immensely in the two areas that have been driving me batty, the fact that my son does not understand the concept of the word “no” and sibling squabbles turning ugly.
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We run triple p (positive parenting program) at work and while I think it’s geared towards white middle class parents, in the whole it’s good. They have a website you can look at. For example time out: give him a specific warning about what you want him to stop doing and if he doesn’t within 5 seconds take him to time out. Make it a really boring room and only start the time when he stops screaming, say 2 minutes. Don’t talk to him while he’s in there and when he’s finished bring him back to the activity and praise him if he behaves, if not repeat, possibly over and over.
Groups are run in different places in Qld, not sure if the other states are doing it or similar programs. Try community health centers for info.
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That’d be great if the centre I go to has stuff like that! I hope they’re helpful for me.
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Thanks to you all, I will check out the book, I have certainly found getting down to his level and speaking to his face makes more of an impact than just talking generally. A good weekend was had by all as Dad was home to help and get a bit of a feel for what Z’s been like.
Thanks again – it’s definitely a labour of love though xx
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Thank you for the recommendation about the book – went back to counting – I give him to 5 and it’s been fantastic, better response, more patiences etc – I’m still the bad cop though and I am okay with that!
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I know how you feel. Some toddler behaviour can be so demoralising.
During that period I tried to go really over the top with the affection, attention and praise. I remember sometimes praising him for what seemed like the silliest things but I just couldn’t go through another day of so many angry moments. Yet, me being me, I couldn’t ignore some of the really poor behaviour either.
I tried make sure I kissed and hugged him or tousled his hair as I walked past or gave him his food or literally any chance I was in his vicinity.
I started to make sure that *at least* twice a day we would play chasings or ticklings or have a dance-off. Trying to use the sense of humour card to cancel out the angry moments in any 24 hour period!
The one-on-one time is really difficult to manage but if you can continue to do something you always did together daily? I know our storytime twice a day was something to look forward to. Really eased some guilt for me at least. Even if he spent the time kicking me!
I’m sure you are doing the best you can – you are only one person with only two hands! He’s learning a tough but unavoidable lesson and it’s distressing we can’t protect them from the pain of that reality.
It is gonna pass, for what that’s worth! x
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I have just finished the book and loved it! Shame Amy got such flack for the small excerpt as you need to read the whole book to see the whole picture!!
I’m no tiger mother but I am bad cop! Wouldn’t mind a bit of Amy’s tiger growl though!!
It’s funny because things my mum said to me I would never say to my kids (and she wouldn’t now either!) but I haven’t suffered from them because it was a loving home! Harsh words and not a loving home could do damage in my opinion!
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I once met a girl who’d been raised by your average Australian parents. But unlike your average Australian upbringing, the girl was taught from birth to communicate with her mother ONLY in French and communicate with her father in English. So she’s bilingual. At 27, she’s now an exceptional freak; she graduated university medalist, speaks at least four languages fluently (Arabic amongst them) and is kicking goals in an traditionally masculine profession.
Do I want to be her? No. Her intense, frantic energy is tiring and makes you question her sanity. But would I want my children to be her? Maybe…
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I try to be both.
On another note, how freaking cool are the little Lego Police in the photo
Ahhh childhood memories!
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I like to think we have it pretty well balanced. P-Daddy and I usually agree on things that should or shouldn’t happen, and if not we tend to ask each other before giving a definite yes or no. Sometimes it feels like I’m the bad cop more often, simply because I’m with the boys all day and therefore have more opportunities to have to discipline them. But, that also means more opportunities to cuddle them and have biscuits!
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Oh my god – I’ve inherted the U-turn gene too! I never wanted to parent like my mother (who is awesome but instituted no boundaries or consistency as she believed we should make our own decisions). Alas, I now let my toddler ‘make her own decisions’ much to the annoyance of my husband.
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My parents are pretty cool, but I kind of wish I’d had someone pushing me a lot more. I was always the smartest kid, I read hundreds of books, but once I knew what an assignment was all about I lacked the discipline to actually sit there and write it until the very last minute. I still got good grades, but never the straight A’s I was capable of.
Oh well. If I had have been a nerd I would never have had the life and friends I have now so no regrets.
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I was brought up like that too, and wished I’d had someone prodding and making me do things- turns out I have 2 children who HATE you telling them anything, are very clever and both have self-disciplined themselves into great courses/careers. It was a win/win to marry a self-disciplined man, and we took turns at being the bad cop. As long of one of us felt strong enough to say the ‘no’ that was needed occasionally, then things happened eventually. We had a messy house, but I think a great sense of creative energy, appreciation for uniqueness and gifts, and a lot of laughs.
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Neither of my parents were at all bent on pushing me,
But I was a chinese-self-mother, I wouldn’t let myself not get anything but an A
And I play piano and violin
Each to their own?
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