It’s an interesting time to own a uterus in the United States. The debate between pro-choice and pro-life is as fierce as ever with a plethora of laws proposed and passed in recent months with the ability to have a colossal impact on the reproductive choices available to women and their families. Here are just a few of these pieces of legislature, both proposed and approved. Frightening.
“The Wrongful Birth Bill”
- The Bill: Senate Bill 1359, passed in Arizona in early March and headed for the state House, aims to exempt doctors from medical malpractice suits for effectively lying to their patients about the health of the foetus. If a doctor were of the opinion the pregnancy would be terminated after the patient learnt of a congenital abnormality, the doctor would be legally protected if they chose to withhold this information from the patient and her family. Oklahoma and Arizona are considering similar bills.
- The Debate: It’s pretty clear why people are outraged over this. For one it’s not the place of doctors to make this huge decision for their patients. Doctors are meant to allow their patients to make free and informed decisions about their health, not withhold information that could have life changing consequences. Withholding vital foetal health information goes against everything doctors are taught and prevents the family from effectively preparing for life with a child affected by a congenital condition if they were to choose to continue the pregnancy.
- The Facts: Preventing patient informed choice is medical malpractice, pure and simple. The most troubling thing about this proposed law is that politicians are enabling doctors to let their personal views come before their patients’ reproductive rights. They are enabling doctors to LIE.
- What this means for women: Under Senate Bill 1359, a women could carry her child for 9 months and deliver a child with a congenital abnormality after being reassured for the whole pregnancy her baby was healthy. Not only would this be a huge shock and could create trust issues with future doctors, it could be psychologically damaging to the mother, which could impact negatively on the care the disabled child would receive.
“The Foetal Pain Bill”
- The Bill: House Bill 954, passed in Georgia initially outlawed abortion after 20 weeks gestation under all circumstances, but has been revised to make an exception to ‘medically futile’ pregnancies and pregnancies dangerous to the mother’s health. No exceptions exist for rape or incest. Nebraska, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Alabama have similar ‘foetal pain’ restrictions and North Carolina restricts abortion after 20 weeks.
- The Debate: People are discussing the circumstances surrounding a ‘medically futile’ pregnancy and the conditions under which the abortion must be performed. There is also debate over what gestational age a foetus can experience pain, and the medical and psychological consequences of carrying an unwanted pregnancy. Dr. George Leach, an Emergency physician, gives his opinion here
- The Facts: The foetus must be diagnosed with a genetic or congenital illness that is incompatible with life for a pregnancy to be considered medically futile, and when aborted the foetus must be delivered alive for the patient and the doctor to avoid legal prosecution. This will most likely mean an unnecessary C-section, as inducing labour can fail early in pregnancy. No exemptions are made for the pregnant woman’s emotional or mental condition either, including suicide attempts. As for the ‘foetal pain’ arguments, scientists believe a foetus will not feel pain until at least 25 weeks, and likely not until 28 weeks gestation.
- What this means for women: Within the media women have been described as ‘barn-yard animals’ in relation to this bill, with individuals claiming that women must continue pregnancies as barn-yard animals do, whether the foetus is dead or alive. The bill will make it difficult for doctors who work with high risk or difficult pregnancies, as they could face jail if an abortion is performed outside of the specified guidelines.
“Mandatory ultrasounds for all abortions”
- The Law: In a collection of US states women will be required to have an ultrasound at least 24 hours before terminating a pregnancy, including pregnancies that are incompatible with life. There are a range of conditions in addition to the ultrasound, depending on the state.
- The Debate: the main argument here is that it would be psychologically damaging for a women to hear the foetal heartbeat and the physical description of the foetus, and then have to replay this information over a 24 hour period before being allowed to have an abortion. Many are claiming the law is designed to get the mother to change her mind, and some are saying the law aims to ‘guilt’ potential mothers into continuing their pregnancy.
- The Facts: In Texas it is currently law that a woman must have an ultrasound and listen to the foetal heartbeat prior to being granted an abortion. Alabama has the least severe law – women must have an ultrasound but are given the choice to view the images. It is being proposed in North Carolina that in addition to the mandatory ultrasound, the doctor that would perform the abortion is required to verbally describe the foetus throughout the ultrasound procedure and the woman must certify she has seen the ultrasound images. It is also being proposed that women must then wait 24 hours before being allowed to return for an abortion. However, in some states under certain circumstances women are not obligated to undergo the mandatory ultrasound, for example in the event of a pregnancy resulting from rape. Thankfully, Oklahoma has ruled the ultrasound bill as unconstitutional and Idaho has also thrown it out.
- What this means for women: For some women, having a child is not something that was planned to happen. They may want a child later on, or they may not want any children. Also, different women have different views on congenital abnormalities. But I personally don’t believe having an abortion is a choice that a majority of women make lightly. So to legislate that women must have this obligatory ultrasound and possibly also listen to a description of the foetus, and then have to reflect on this experience before undergoing an already undoubtedly traumatic termination, is insulting to the intelligence of all women. Another scenario this law doesn’t always consider is the necessity of the ultrasound and verbal foetal description in cases where the pregnancy is being terminated as a result of rape or irreversible foetal abnormality – not all states that propose this law show special consideration to those wishing to terminate due to extenuating circumstances.
- The Law: The Personhood movement believe that human life begins at conception, and the ultimate aim of the movement is to pass a Federal Amendment deeming “legal personhood be granted to all human beings from the beginning of their biological development”.
- The Debate: The controversy surrounding this legislation is divisive and the most heated of all. The Personhood Amendment aims to give a foetus equal rights to life, but many argue that the rights of the mother come before those of the foetus, referencing the well known philosophical dilemma, ‘who came first, the chicken or the egg?’. However a growing group of mainly religious activists are in support of the Personhood Amendment, and claim 50 million ‘victims’ have been killed since Roe v. Wade decriminalized abortion in 1973.
- The Facts: Personhood poses a significant risk to the advances in Reproductive Medicine. If a foetus is granted a right to life from conception, women face a risk that medical decisions could be made about their body without their consent if a medical professional deems the choice in the best interests of the foetus, regardless of the best interests of the mother.
- What this means for women: Under the Personhood Amendment, in America a stillbirth could be considered a homicide. A woman could undergo life-threatening surgery without her consent. Assisted reproductive technology labs could be outlawed. Contraceptives could be a thing of the past. Reproductive Medicine would be completely transformed to revolve around the rights of an accumulation of cells. I know ‘cells’ sounds harsh, but if the Personhood Amendment somehow passes it would be scientifically true. Below are a series of videos with several cases related to the Personhood movement.
House Bill 2036 (Arizona) – The “pregnant before you’ve ovulated” Bill
- The Bill: This Bill reviews the gestational age of a foetus, which is to be calculated from the last menstrual period of the pregnant woman. The Bill also bans abortion after 20 weeks of gestation with the exception of for the health of the mother on the belief that the foetus will experience pain from an abortion after this time.
- The Debate: The main points of controversy surrounding HB 2036 are the beliefs that women can be considered pregnant even before conception, and that the Bill actually bans abortion after 18 weeks.
- The Facts: According to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the best practice for estimating gestational age prior to ultrasound is by the calculating the first date of the last menstrual period, so this Bill merely clarifies the legality surrounding the gestational age of the child.
- What this means for women: Women are not being limited to abortions before 18 weeks, but 20 weeks after the first date of the last menstrual period as before.
Is it troubling to know that I am barely skimming the surface of the potentially dangerous and ethically questionable laws being proposed and approved in the U.S?
My poor backspace button has resigned after the bashing received from writing this article – there’s just not enough time to explore all of the craziness here. But first and foremost, the pieces of legislature outlined above take away the freedom of choice that women should be entitled to have regarding their own bodies. That is the main point here.
Wade through all of the numbers and cases and ultimately the thing that’s being lost is reproductive freedom. When was it decided that politicians are entitled to decide if a woman is forced to have a caesarean over a natural birth without her consent? Whose right is it to deprive a woman of an abortion in the face of a life-threatening pregnancy? And why in the name of all things sane in 2012 must a woman be forced to view a propaganda filled website and be subjected to an emotional guilt trip before exercising her right to choose to continue or terminate a pregnancy that would dramatically change her life?
These choices are of a deeply personal nature, and whilst legislature surrounding maternal and foetal health is necessary to protect the rights of both mother and child, the line has to be drawn when the best interests of the mother are simply being ignored. It’s high time politicians stop hawking their personal views and political agendas and wake up to the need for women to be free to make choices regarding their reproductive health. Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath upon graduating from medical school. They claim they will do no harm. It’s clear from the laws outlined above that legislators in the U.S. are making liars of a new wave of doctors.
Amelia is currently completing her Masters in Reproductive Medicine and has a strong interest in women’s health, psychology and reproductive ethics. She is travelling to Nepal in July to learn about maternal and neonatal medicine in a third world community hospital (you can follow her blog here and click here to donate towards medical supplies for the maternity and NICU wards).







Comments
342 Comments so far
This is so well written Ameila! Congratulations, Toby Wigglebottom loved it too
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Hooray! Thanks Helena and Toby!! xxx
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One word comes to mind – Appalling!
I also work for an American company that has it’s head office in Atlanta. I was over there last year and it absolutely fascinated me watching the news and listening to colleagues discussing some of the issues. I largely kept quiet and listened but there was a fundamental undertone that I found really disturbing.
We are so lucky that we live in a country where women are supported in so many ways. We are not perfect but the thought that people with extreme views but powerful backing can get legislation like that even written let alone passed is terrifying.
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It seems weird to make it illegal to cause someone pain, no matter what age they are.
Will they outlaw breaking someone’s heart?
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Madness… Absolute madness…
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America is slowly destroying itself and everything it was founded on, this article makes me feel sick.
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Me too. I’m squirming/fuming in my seat!
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I feel a bit sick too. I look after mum’s and babies and can’t imagine putting one above the other.
It sounds awful, but I suspect that given that awful choice, most families of pregnant women would pick the woman if it came to an either or choice.
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All the above is before you even get into the labour ward. My NSW-born sister is a nurse & trainee midwife in Alabama. There are great debates there, same as here, about the licensing of midwives. Looks like the doctors want them and their new-fangled (actually: been done this way since Eve) ideas out of there. She says that there are NO natural births in the hospitals she’s worked at. Everyone rocks up for their epidural & their induction. Fine if that’s the way you want to go, but if you don’t then you’re fighting an uphill battle at an extremely vulnerable time in your life.
Please note that I am NOT anti induction &/or epidurals. Just against being given no choice in the matter.
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Ive seen a few episodes of one born every minute, US version and their ilk and it makes me so glad I practice and trained in Australia.
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What’s wrong with OBEM? I love that show
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I love the UK version. It is very similar to maternity wards throughout Australia. I hate the US version. It shows women being strapped to a CTG machine, all with an epidural, that’s if they don’t end up having a Caesar. Then there is the litho tommy position for birthing, with all the sterile draping and the whisking away of the baby straight after birth, as well as a doctor catching every single baby. I could go on, but I’m sure my blood pressure is rising already.
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That is terrible. I found it a bit of a struggle here, turning down the frequent offers of gas/an epidural (I tried to get into a birthing center but didn’t ‘win’ – they have a lottery system – a place so had to go with the regular labor ward) I can’t imagine what it would be like going into the hospital knowing that the odds are hugely stacked against you.
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These laws are absolutely disgusting and make me so angry.
Wrongful birth bill- that is so unethical
Mandatory ultrasounds for abortion- guilt-tripping much???
Personhood USA- Just stupid
America land of the free? Yeah right.
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Fantastic article! I have been linking stories about this issue to all my friends for the last six months and it gets a huge passionate response.
It is time for economic conservatives and liberals in America to stand together and oppose this reactionary social conservatism that is plaguing America, from both the democrats and the republicans. I think many people may disagree with obama’s management of the economy, which is completely understandable but letting a vocal persecutory religious minority take away the rights of women is not good enough. The democrats aren’t doing enough either but it is very hard when the congress can be led by the opposing party to the president, almost similar to our hung parliament.
Americans needs to stop wasting time persecuting their own citizens, stop starting wars that are frankly hypocritical in light of the healthcare and immigration situation in their country, and take care of their own backyard.
Sorry rant over I’m just horrified with the state of humans rights in the supposedly “chosen land” of America. An interesting historical perspective is that the puritans went to America not to escape persecution, but to be free to persecute anyone not like themselves. Nothing has changed and never will while religion controls the country.
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Thank you claresophie89! I completely agree. Here’s some of my favourite pics on the topic…
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And another…
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And another!
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Awesome! You really do have to see the humour in the situation or it could make you tear your hair out. Did you see Obama’s joke about the all male congressional committee on contraception at white house correspondents dinner? Fabulous!
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I love Obama, he’s hilarious
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I understand abortions may need to be performed for the health of the mother and rape victims. Technology has allowed to find out if our child will have congenital defects before it is born. I am not comfortable with the fact that people do not want to be burdened with a child with heath issues so they have an abortion. I know it would be hard and it can be a life time of caring but it feels so selfish to me. The excuse of ” I didn’t want children now” does not fly with me. If you don’t want kids now then abstain. When you are ready for kids have as much sex as you like.
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Right, so unless we want kids, we shouldn’t have sex, ever?I think that’s a very naive view. Yes, sex does lead to procreation, but the act itself has so many more uses than that. Pleasure, an act of love, bonding with your partner. Yes, if you don’t want kids you must take responsibility to prevent that but promoting abstainist you are denying yourself & others of something very beautiful and wonderful.
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Yes, how selfish of me to terminate a pregnancy that was ‘not compatible with life’. How selfish of me to prevent a foetus with no skull from growing inside of me for 9 months while its brain dissolved in the amniotic fluid!! Wake up to yourself.
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I wonder Anonymous, do you say the same thing to men? Only have sex if you want a child? You might want to put a disclaimer at every brothel perhaps.
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I had that belief once. I was 15. Then I grew up.
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Damned Yankees !
Only in America…as they say.
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Thank you for this article. I remember reading somewhere that a developing economy becomes stronger when women gain control over their fertility. If they take these rights from women, can’t they see that this will effect everyone. It is disappointing and quite frightening.
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Great article, thanks for posting it.
Every step seems to be taking us closer to The Handmaid’s Tale. It’s horrific.
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I wonder if the policy makers and supporters of these bills are prepared to deal with the rise in the numbers of special needs/ disabled children, suicides of pregnant women, and maternal and/or foetal deaths due to botched ‘backyard’ abortions that will surely follow if these bills pass as proposed. Perhaps they should read books such as ‘Lost: Illegal Abortion Stories’ (see picture) to get an understanding of what women could again be reduced to.
Also, another point this article raised for me is that I (fairly ignorantly, I admit) have no idea of the aborton laws in Australia and so plan on looking them up fairly shortly so I am completely informed of what my choices are, should I ever find myself in that situation.
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Or the rise in crime… http://www.freakonomics.com/books/freakonomics/
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From Family Planning NSW
http://www.fpnsw.org.au/374118_8.html
diffrent states do have different laws,
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Thanks MisChief- I also found this fact sheet from the Australian Reproductive Health Alliance (which sadly is no longer operating):
http://www.arha.org.au/factSheets/thelegalstatusofabortioninaustralianew.pdf
and also this article from the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners:
http://www.racgp.org.au/afp/200611/20061103bird.pdf
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Thanks & thank goodness we have lots of information out there. My first thought was Family Planning as it’s where two girlfriends & myself, took ourselves at age 17 to go on the pill without our family Doctors, or parents knowing!
Thank goodness for them we were well educated and learned so much from the nurse that helped us that day.
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Or all the children that no longer have their mother alive to raise them.
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Excellent article, thank you for the summary.
This reminds me once again how glad I am to live in Australia… these Bills seem so far removed from my reality as to be almost unbelievable yet they are a disturbing and scary reality for women elsewhere in the world.
For all their faults I am so grateful for the moderate political beliefs most Australian parties hold, we are so lucky.
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Me too. The overt religious displays in America really bothered me because I know they are filtered into the political arena heavily over there.
The overt religiousness and overt patriotism in America was quite an eye opener. Australia is a great nation, the best, but I’m glad we don’t have 30 flags hanging off the side of Parliament house in Canberra, bit over the top in my opinion!
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It reminds me of one of the placards I saw in an article about protesting for abortions to be made legal: ‘If men got pregnant, abortion would be legal’
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Not to make this funny but a guy friend of mine went in for a vasectomy a couple of months ago at a Sydney clinic that also performs abortions and their were some protestors outside and as they saw him going in alone a man yelled at him “Every sperm is sacred!”. My friend so wanted to break into song. Now my friend has three beautiful children and he & his wife have decided their family is complete.
I’m sure in this world for every sacred sperm there are a lot that go to waste
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Seems as though large sections of the American community hate women just as much as many muslim, extremist governments. War on terror? Yeah, right. The terror is in their backyards and of their making.
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Exactly!!
Land of the free??
Far from it…
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All horrific, and all ultimately being made by people (ie I am thinking mostly men in government here) who won’t ever have to live with the physical and mental consequences of a forced pregnancy (not that I am discounting the males here either – I cant imagine the trauma for both parties really).
All so so so bad, but the first one: The Wrongful Birth Bill caught my eye. If the woman is forced to carry a child with an abnormality, who exactly is going to be expected to pay for, care for etc the child? I can imagine it will NOT be those who voted in the legislation with that countries abysmal health welfare system.
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Yes I hope those same doctors or the members of parliament are prepared to pay for those children for the rest of their lives and provide the endless services and support that their parents will require.
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and sadly, bet that wont ever happen
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Beyond scary!
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In saying that though, it doesn’t seem to allow for the making of mistakes by the medical profession. I mean, i think it’s great that these days we have access to wonderful technology like ultrasounds and everything else, but to now also expect doctors to be able to predict that everything will turn out ok based on still limited information so early on is (in my opinion) asking too much.
Doctors aren’t gods, they’re still only human, and these tests are not all definitive – things can be missed. Even twins can still be missed in early ultrasounds.
I think suing for wrongful birth is disgusting.
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Remembering that they do not have our health system so the parents will be out of pocket for the child’s lifetime. But I agree with you what if it’s a Doctor’s mistake, misjudgement or an unforseen error, yes these happen.
But they are going beyond that and regardless of what the Doctor knows and how badly the child’s situation will be when they are born, some maybe dying not long after, to tell a mother throughout their whole wanted pregnancy that their child is fine, is just beyong atrocious, they are the Doctors that should be sued. Not genuine mistakes.
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I don’t agree in sueing for wrongful birth but what I think is horrendous is deliberately with holding information. I work in health and I know that doctors are people just like everyone else but would people ever trust another doctor if they thought they were with holding back giving information that they knew.
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Oh. My. God. Is this really happening? Did I get in a time machine and go back to the dark ages?
What the heck is wrong with America??? Women and children literally KILLED because they are denied any rights over their own body? ARRESTED by police who forced them to have their stomachs cut open?
This is appalling, shocking, disgusting, ridiculous, insane…there is not enough words in the world to describe this effectively.
I was horrified when I read the stories of Australian women who had children young, were strapped to the beds, forbidden the right to see their child, forced to give it up, and I thought ‘this is horrific, but at least that was 40-odd years ago and things are so much better now.
Apparently not in America!!! I cannot believe this stuff is happening. I know Americans are brainwashed idiots, but c’mon?! Gobsmacked.
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what she said. pure horrifying.
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And are there any bills or services being introduced to support these families once these kids are born? and what about special needs kids? I’m betting there wont be any.
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Such a good point. They claim to have the babies’ best interest at heart, but they won’t think about what happens in the long term!
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Of course not. After all, we all know its the irresponsible woman’s fault for falling pregnant in the first place. She should have just said no. Or worn non-provocative clothing. Or locked her bedroom door.
Or she should be happy to accept the consequences.
PS All written in ‘sarcastica’ font (thanks Arj Barker).
Grrr. It makes me very angry on behalf of all American women.
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And to top it all off, the health funds do not want to cover contraceptives for women, a push Obama has been fighting for. Yet Viagra is covered, can’t have the ummm men who can’t get it up suffering can they?
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WOW.
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All care, and no responsibility.
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Strange that a country whose philosophy and constitution is based on personal freedoms, seeks to sanction what appears to be torture of women. I have no idea how any American woman could vote conservative.
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Me neither – although there are plenty of ultra religious women who actually support these types of laws…until they get into trouble themselves. The NYT had a fascinating OpEd article not that long ago – written by a doctor who performs abortions (who prior to going to college was religiously conservative) … one of the things this doctor mentioned that every so often, one of the protestors from outside the clinic would come in for an abortion and they would completely disassociate/rationalize away that they were asking for something they were protesting against every day…and they would be back outside protesting the next day.
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Yes, I’ve read about this happening, too. In one case — I don’t remember specifics — a prominent politician, whose platform was a vocal anti-choice advocate, daughter got pregnant and had an abortion at her family’s (and her own) behest. Apparently, she was allowed access to safe abortion but the politician’s constituents weren’t. Breathtaking hypocrisy.
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Abortion is a human rights issue. If Churches genuinely opposed abortion…it would be over! The abortion rate within Churches is supposedly the same as outside them. Another myth of the abortion industry! Have you checked out the Pagans for Life fb page?
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I’m not American, but I did go to school with a large number of girls from conservative families, many of whom would describe themselves as ‘pro-life’.
In my experience, these girls could continue to justify their beliefs because they just did not believe that they would ever be in that situation. They would never get pregnant without being in a position to support a baby; they would never get pregnant as a teenager or a university student or because of rape or incest. They would just Never. Make. That. Mistake. They would always use protection/contraception (and good for them) and that was that.
In the odd event that they did get pregnant in not-ideal circumstances, it would be okay too, because their wealthy families would cushion them from any financial hardship and their church would forgive them for having a child out of wedlock because that was at least better than being a baby killer.
So in a nutshell, they didn’t need to concern themselves with the rights of other women, because it was something they never envisaged themselves as needing.
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makes me so angry. They have the right to bear arms to protect themselves and ultimately kill, however no rights over your own body??? Sorry its a long line I have drawn there, but it makes me mad that these bills are even being considered in the first place!
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“Torture”? Gosh, the research shows abortion hurts women (British Journal of Psychiatry, Aug 2011. Meta analysis by Dr Priscilla Coleman – in Australia this month actually!!). The reverse is true…abortion hurts women!
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- Let me correct that for you – Abortion hurts some women.
I know you wouldn’t want to misrepresent the findings of research
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Seems to me that some people driving these insane bills think they have a right to play God with other people’s lives. Extended suffering looks like the order of the day for all parties involved. How do they sleep at night?
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My thoughts exactly Anon76
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http://amultiverse.com/files/comics/2012-03-20-Dick-And-Duck.png
taken from http://amultiverse.com/2012/03/20/dick-and-duck/
that is all
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HAHAHA mayberry, love it!
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Horrified! I am flabbergasted!
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This is all too scary for words and who makes these laws MEN, ultra conservative MEN. Conservative MEN who do not have to raise the child, house feed, they then become a number, welfare recipient, maybe even a child caught in the foster sytem.
Women do not take the decision to abort lightly, it is heart wrenching to have to choose. I am pro-choice, but would never wish on anyone the mental struggle to do so, but pregnancies are sometimes unwanted, foetus’s have congenital conditions, and for one law to state that a Doctor does not have to tell you, OMG!
As I tell both my children, a baby isn’t a baby until you are sure you want it, priot to that it’s a bunch of cells. I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but I believe it to be true.
Thank the universe I do not live in America!
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Plenty of women support the laws too. I’d be blaming religion not men.
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Anonymous, I totally agree yes these laws are supported by women, sadly so. But the main proponents of the laws and presenting the bills are men. I also agree that yes I too would be blaming religion for all their carry on about the seperation of church & state in the US, it seems you can’t have one without the other.
And yet the US are against the oppression of women by the Taliban, ironic? Extremists are found in every group, it’s sad that they have made it so high into US office, where they can do so much damage.
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Call me an extremist, I believe that dismemberment (and other barbaric procedures of abortion are wrong. I am a woman, a mother with 3 daughters and the lies you perpetuate about abortion being a trophy of womens reproductive freedom is a crock! Abortion is a reflection that the needs of women are not being met!! International research shows that abortion hurts women – 81% of us who choose abortion over birth (British journal of psych, aug 2008 – a meta analysis of 900,000 women).
If you go to the feminists for life website (u.s), you will see that the liberties their early feminists fought for did not include abortion. In fact, many prominent feminists recognized the abuse of women it is…
Abortion has no place in true feminism – and they deserve better. Could the pro Aborts on this blog be any more negative about motherhood? With 5 children, I am so sad that so many view such a wonderful aspect of womanhood such a drain and imposition…2 of my babies were unplanned – one pregnancy was especially stressful – the solution is to remove the crisis situations around the pregnancy, not the child! My traumatic pregnancy resulted in an amazing girl who is a talented netball and basketball player. For women reading this miserable blog, please know that you are strong and with support can pursue any dreams and plans – babies are a bonus that make the journey a little slower… But so much more meaningful.
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Sonja being Pro Choice does not mean I am either Pro death or against a woman having children at all. I have two wonderful children myself and friends ranging from parentless to 9 kids. My job takes me into contact with babies in their first couple of weeks of life, I could not love a baby more. A wanted, loved, needed, provided for, unplanned but happy surprise baby.
Feminists may not have directly fought for abortion but we did fight for the right to our own bodies. And this is where most of these laws cross the line, in my opinion.
I can only speak for myself when I say being Pro choice, pro abortion if that is the woman’s choice I feel is right, but that does not make me anti babies, familes, or motherhood – the argument you presented is extreme.
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Thank you! I completely agree. Enforcing some of these laws is so contradictory to some of the values America claims to have i.e- freedom. I’m so glad I live in Australia.
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Hold on – I’m stuck on this one from the Foetal Pain Bill:
“The foetus must be diagnosed with a genetic or congenital illness that is incompatible with life for a pregnancy to be considered medically futile, and when aborted the foetus must be delivered alive for the patient and the doctor to avoid legal prosecution.”
What if the foetus with the congenital illness doesn’t survive the birth, as is quite possible if it has such an illness? And what if it does – are they then to spend days or weeks in a NICU before the parents then have to decide to pull the plug? I can’t imagine the laws of these conservative states will that make easy either.
Are they determined to punish people for things they have absolutely no control over?
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If I was pregnant and living in one of those states, my first question to my OB on my very first visit would be whether they take advantage of that law. I’d walk right out if they didn’t voice outrage over the Fetal Pain law (assuming it passes).
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If I was pregnant, or in fact a woman of child-rearing age in the US, I’d be leaving. And I certainly wouldn’t be raising my daughers there. This is the tip of the iceberg – there are other laws and a general culture which is just horrific. It’s The Handmaid’s Tale.
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Not exactly a realistic option for most – educating/protesting/voting/instilling the values that you want to instil in your children – those are a bit more realistic. I’m lucky – as a dual passport holder, I do have options, but most people don’t. Also, leaving your entire world (friends/family/etc.) is not easy – I know first hand.
And you are making broad generalizations – I can’t defend these particular laws (and many others)…or a lot of other things that go on in America…but it’s still where I am from and I loved living there…I love living here too.
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Sorry, I wasn’t saying the entire American culture is horrific. I was referring to the aspects of the culture and the public dialogue in which women are slut-shamed for being raped; in which arguing for access to contraceptives is enough for a woman to be told she should put a video of her sexual activities on the web because she’s been paid for by the American public; in which a pharmacist can refuse to give you that which your doctor has prescribed…
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I love living here too! I’m an American and I’ve lived here my whole life. I live in Maine, which, being in the north-east, is far from the bible belt where the ultra conservative ideals are being pushed. It’s a different world here in Maine. I’ve traveled to other parts of the country and this is the place to be!
. I’ve even had a wonderful, natural birth in a hospital attended by a midwife.
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Handmaid’s Tale came straight to my mind too.
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Ok I have now had time to read the actual article after I performed my happy dance to celebrate my friends post!
Train of thought as follows;
1. Brain. Hurts!! So many rules and legalisations and personal differing points of view.
2. May the force be with you dear Millie! Trust you to write about fertility/abortion on your first public post
3. Fascinating stuff!
4. “The Wrongful Birth Bill” – HORRIFIC!! How can it be legal for doctors to lie to their patients?
5. “The Foetal Pain Bill” – I find it sad that rape isn’t included on the “allowed” list
6. Whatever your view on abortion, mandatory ultrasounds sounds like one massive guilt trip to me!
7. “the line has to be drawn when the best interests of the mother are simply being ignored” AMEN sista!
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I am a disgusted American…I really don’t know what to say other than there are huge numbers of Americans who disagree with these policies – but there are obviously politically (and financially) strong Americans who do. And remember, States pass their own laws – states with conservative and ultra religious populations can have the numbers to have representatives in their state legislatures to get these laws through. The laws will stand until challenged through the courts. That’s how it is….
…I find this so depressing…
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I find that absolutely frightening!
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America is a strange nation…I work for an American company, and the team I report to is based in North Carolina, and I’ve developed some strong personal relationships with some of the people on my team. They are truly lovely people, just like any average Australian…but I do know I have to be careful about talking about politics and religion. Even though my politics are more centre-left than left-wing, I would still be considered left-wing in America. And I never mention my Atheism, though I certainly don’t hide it either.
It would be different if I worked there though. There is a lot of prejudice against atheists in bible-belt-America…bullying, discrimination…I’ve never ever had to hide my Atheism here in Sydney…and yes, I know Sydney is not Australia…and Raleigh North Carolina isn’t America…but in America there is an awful lot of “North Carolina”…bible-belt America has a huge population…and it’s apparent that this kind of blinkered thinking permeates across a large number of states.
These anti-women “bills” are another symptom of the strange world-view that exists in bible-belt America…in many ways, bible-belt America is just as extremist and fundamentalist as other groups that we westerners think of as being extremist, such the Taliban for example (though obviously not as violent or oppressive).
There are places in Australia that have large numbers of “conservative” people too, but thankfully (?) Australia is much more “liberal” than America, especially in the major population centres of Sydney and Melbourne. I don’t think I could imagine a scenario in Australia where any of the major political parties would think these types of laws would be palatable to the Australian voting public. At least I hope so.
* I am, of course, using the terms “conservative” and “liberal” in their cultural senses, not political.
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As a liberal (lower case) (and very middle of the road) American I have found it fascinating how Australia – a country without separation of church and state written into its constitution – actually keeps church and state separate way better than America! What’s also interesting is despite the sometimes LOUD debates on MM around Australian politics is that the difference between the liberals and conservatives in Australia is SO SO much smaller than it is in the US…at least from what I’ve seen – obviously, there are outliers on both ends.
As mentioned above, I am clearly a liberal (lower case) when it comes to American politics…but not so liberal (lower case) when it comes to Australian politics as the divide just isn’t the same (in my humble, non-expert opinion). Don’t get me started on how confusing I found the names of your 2 major political parties when I first moved here!
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JJ, I would be left wing in America too and I’d scream it from the rooftops. The conservatives there are CRAZY conservative. It outrages me. Nice place to visit, America, but bloody hell, I am glad to be an Aussie after my visit there.
If any politician in Australia dated suggest any of the proposals in the article, they’d be a complete laughing stock and it would go nowhere.
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Last time I checked, it takes both a man and woman to concieve, so arent these (in almost all cases) issues for both women and men? Seems the US is trying to control PARENTS to me.
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Yes but when it comes down to the nitty gritty- If a male wanted his partner to have an abortion and she didnt, im fairly certain she’d “win” that argument. I agree that it should be a decision made together but it is the females body and unfortunately things arent always happily agreed on.
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So your rare example of men and women having a difference of opinion on termination is enough to not make one reference to PARENTS in that entire lengthy post. Hmm, seems to be a bit of a feminism 101 slant in the way it was written. These are issues affecting everyone Amelia, and it should have been written as such
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While these issues do affect everybody, it is the woman’s body that is being physically interfered with (either by action or by the prohibition of action) without her consent in these bills, not the man’s. These bills (if passed) would directly affect a woman’s right of consent/refusal to medical procedures. Not so for men.
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I don’t want to speak for Amelia (so I’m not) but the way I see it, you’re right, a lot of these laws affect parents, but they are also laws that affect the way a woman can make decisions about her body. These laws don’t just regulate how we parent or whom we parent, these laws regulate the extent to which women have control of their bodies and their right to be operated on etc.
It’s not feminism, and you’re right, these are still issues affecting everyone because every person in society should be concerned when the law takes away control of our right to make decisions about our medical health and our bodies.
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So both parents carry the foetus and give birth? Both parents have an invasive, unwanted vaginal ultrasound against their will if they are *lucky* enough to be allowed to terminate? (Note: that would be rape under our laws) Both parents are statistically just as likely to be involved in the daily care of the baby after birth?
They are not laws against parents. They are laws against women. Yes, some men will end up will unwanted children which would absolutely suck, but at the core of it these are laws that force a woman to gestate and birth a child she doesn’t want, when doesn’t want to do so. If she wants an abortion, she has to do so dangerously and illegally, and might die. The man does not experience that. Yes, men will be effected by the bills and that’s an additional reason to hate the bills – but they simply do not effect men to nearly the same extent. I think it’s extremely offensive to say it does.
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Hi Anonymous, thanks so much for sharing your opinion! I agree that the laws will affect both men and women – the laws will affect all Americans! But the main impacts of the above laws will mainly be on potential mothers, not as much on potential fathers. As J-L, Sari and Anon have already said, women will be the ones that will have their choices taken away. They will be the ones that can no longer make medical decisions about their own bodies. I agree that fathers will also be impacted – for example fathers would also bear the challenge of having a child born with an undisclosed congenital abnormality, they would also bear the burden of watching the mother of their child potentially suffer – but the main burden of the laws is on the mother. beee, J-L, Sari, Anon and ezzalenko, thanks for sharing
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Anytime Meg!!
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Until men have uteruses and can carry a foetus, the majority of these bills predominately limit the choices of women.
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I studied American Politics as an interesting aside to my major, and I still like to keep up with what is happening over there. It is all so rage inducing. I care about other women around the world and that includes American women, who right now are suffering a huge attack on their rights.
And this article is just a quick rundown on the tip of the ice berg. Lets also not forget the attacks on contraception, the morning after pill, sexual harassment laws, equal pay, sexual and pregnancy discrimination and that fact many American cities have THOUSANDS of unprocessed rape kits in storage not being followed up and prosecuted.
Land of the free…
Also – the murder and ongoing harassment of the brave people willing to help women, including individual abortion doctors and organisations like planned parenthood. Murdering an abortion doctor and blowing up a planned parenthood clinic is domestic terrorism, yet politicians over there are loathe to call it what it is and to condemn the attacks with out reservation.
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I love this comment! “Domestic terrorism”…yes it is!
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Yayyyyyy MILLIE!!! (Sorry everyone else, Amelia is one of my very good friends so im so happy to see her post on my fav blog!
)
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Can you tell her I thought it was a kick-arse article?
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Thanks Catherine!! Beaming!
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