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Some of Australia’s lowest paid win massive increase
Fair Work Australia has ruled that community sector workers in Australia should receive between 19 and 41 per cent pay increases in a landmark decision. Last year the workplace tribunal found that workers in the community and disability sectors were underpaid compared to public service workers doing similar jobs. The decision means the highest paid in the sector will receive an annual $23,000 pay rise, taking their income to $83,000. The lowest paid will receive $6000 pay rises. The move will affect some 150,000 workers across Australia and be funded in a shared arrangement by the states and Federal Government, which has pledged $2 billion to the arrangement. But the changes will brought in over eight years instead of the lobbied for six. The decision has been hailed as a significant equal pay win as most of the community sector workers are women.
Gina Rinehart
Australia’s richest person flexes her muscle
Gina Rinehart, whose wealth almost doubled in one day to just shy of $20 billion earlier this month, has made a move to increase her stake in media company Fairfax to 14 per cent. Ms Rinehart is the daughter of late mining magnate Lang Hancock and has worked to further his grip on iron ore prospects. A stockbroker acting on her behalf made an attempt last night to secure the 10 per cent stake which would cost her $192 million. But for a woman who is worth about 10 times as much as Fairfax itself, that’s small change. Ms Rinehart already owns a 10 per cent stake in the Ten Network. She is known as notoriously private but became vocal during mining tax protests, claiming heavy taxes would ruin the industry. A recent profile on Ms Rinehart noted her conservative views were inherited from her father and she has spoken out in the past about Fairfax being a too left-wing and biased. It is said that Ms Rinehart could conceivably become the richest person in the world in the near future as the potential for her mining prospects grow.
Keeden, with his mother
Doctor faced with wrongful birth lawsuit
Debbie and Lawrence Waller are suing an IVF specialist for ‘wrongful birth’ after their son Keeden was born with a hereditary condition called antithrombin deficiency which causes blood clotting. Shortly after his birth in 2000, he suffered a severe stroke that cause brain damage. He cannot walk, talk or go to the bathroom. His parents say they love him, but he should never have been born. They’re asking for $10 million from the specialist for not properly checking whether Larwence’s condition could be passed on. “We love Keeden now that he’s here, but if we had the right information and the right options we wouldn’t have gone ahead with the birth, not in the way we did,” Mrs Waller said. “Had things been done right, Keeden would never have been here. He would never have to go through the suffering he goes through – the seizures and all.”
Aussie Film and TV Awards toast success
The newly formed Australian Academy of Cinema and Television Arts (AACTA) Awards went off with a bit of pop last night and celebrated a busy year in film and TV. Without further ado, here are the winners:
FILM
Samsung AACTA Award for Best Film – RED DOG
Best Direction – Snowtown
Best Original Screenplay – Griff The Invisible
Best Adapted Screenplay – Snowtown
Best Lead Actor – Daniel Henshall. Snowtown.
Best Lead Actress – Judy Davis. The Eye Of The Storm.
Best Supporting Actor – Hugo Weaving. Oranges And Sunshine.
Best Supporting Actress – Louise Harris. Snowtown.
TELEVISION
Best Television Drama Series – East West 101
Best Telefeature, Mini Series or Short Run Series – The Slap.
Best Light Entertainment Television Series – The Gruen Transfer.
Best Direction in Television – The Slap – Episode 3 ‘Harry’.
Best Screenplay in Television – The Slap – Episode 3 ‘Harry’.
Best Lead Actor in a Television Drama – Alex Dimitriades. The Slap.
Best Lead Actress in a Television Drama – Sarah Snook. Sisters Of War.
Best Guest or Supporting Actor in a Television Drama – Richard Cawthorne. Killing Time.
Best Guest or Supporting Actress in a Television Drama – Diana Glenn. The Slap.
Switched On Audience Choice Award for Best Television Program – Packed To The Rafters.
Switched On Audience Choice Award for Best Performance in a Television Drama – Asher Keddie. Paper Giants: The Birth Of Cleo.
Miranda Kerr
Australians spend 48,000 years on the Internet
And that was just in December. Benchmark Nielsen ratings of Aussie net behaviour revealed we spent enough time online at the end of 2011 to take up 25.2 billion minutes visiting 42 billion web pages. Hurting your head yet? And, of course, Facebook impressed with the average Australian spending one in every four online minutes on the world’s largest social networking site, which has more than 800 million members. Google was even more popular in the number one spot. Mobile Internet traffic increased by 71 per cent across 2011 and there were 15.9 million Australians active online in December. What are your browsing habits like?
Elton John dismisses Madonna, again
The moment Elton found out Madonna won at the Golden Globes
There’s no love lost between these two. After saying Madonna didn’t have a ‘f*cking chance’ of winning the best song award they were both nominated for at the Golden Globes (she did, it turns out, as she won it) Elton has now come out and rubbished her upcoming performance at America’s NFL Superbowl. When asked what advice he would give the pop superstar, Elton said: “Make sure you lip-synch good.”
Birth control? Let’s zap those testicles.
It just might be a useful male contraceptive, if men are willing to let their nether-regions get zapped. Researchers from the University of North Carolina School of Medicine have released data (drawn from their studies of rats) that show an ultrasound treatment applied directly to the testes could reduce the sperm count to zero, making it a very effective contraceptive for men that happens to be completely reversible. But more work needs to be done, namely to figure out if the treatment is safe to use multiple times on the same subject. Hmmm.
If you missed it yesterday Mamamia has a brand new daily post! The Mamamia Wine Bar, a place for you to pull up a seat, grab a drink of your choice (tea is more than acceptable) and let the Mamamia Team fill you in on some of the things everyone’s talking about – check out yesterday’s inaugural post here
What else is in the news and on your mind?
Comments
151 Comments so far
Oh! I very much agree with the AACTA Awards given!
The only films I haven’t seen are The Eye Of The Storm and Griff The Invisible – which are now on the list! Thanks
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“Ms Rinehart already owns a 10 per cent stake in the Ten Network. She is known as notoriously private but became vocal during mining tax protests, claiming heavy taxes would ruin the industry. A recent profile on Ms Rinehart noted her conservative views were inherited from her father and she has spoken out in the past about Fairfax being a too left-wing and biased.”
haha – now why on Earth would she have any opposition to the mining tax??
Duhh!
How much of a say do these people have on the TV news? Is it getting as bad as America’s Fox Network here??
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the thing with he wrongful birth suit is that the patient’s father wa oviously not overly concerned about his genetic disorder- a quick google would have the answer.
He could have had the genetic testing or he could have done what he did ignore the advice for genetic councelling then blame the Dr.
The chance of actually having the disorder was 50% but the chance of having a stroke at birth was extremely low as most patients don’t get a clot until over 20. It is hardly is disease you would live in mortal fear of. especially when you have good life yourself.
the big picture is such claims are morally wrong. I just wish we had a system to pay into for national disability- a bit like the road traffic authority in Victoria- everyone is covered who has a road accident in Victoria- it is not excessive but it really helps families when they need it and I was so greatful.
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The wrongful birth claims raise a huge array of reactions which I can fully appreciate as someone who has a people with disabilities in my family.
However, I am also a lawyer who works in one of the large firms which does act for parents in this situation.
The reality of what the child and parents go through is something I could not imagine. However I am able to do the work I do with a relatively comfortable conscience knowing that I am assisting these parents provide financially (and therefore medically) for their disabled child if we can bring such a claim.
The law can be (and often is) a terrible instrument for trying to improve injured ppls lives.
‘wrongful birth’ claims have arisen from the nature of negligence and damages law – they are framed that way because it is the only way to get compensation for families who are significantly affected by a doctor’s negligence.
I do struggle with the fact that to get the compensation, the parents have to lead evidence that they would have aborted. If the woman has aborted previously this goes in her ‘favor’ for the claim, if she has tried desperately to fall pregnant, the doctors lawyers are likely to argue she would have kept the child anyway.
It is heart wrenching for the lawyers (believe it or not), for the family, doctors and all involved – but the aim of it all is to provide the child with the highest level of care money can buy.
I completely understand why people react negatively to the concept. Just thought I’d provide some insight into the legal/parents perspective…
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I understand what you’re saying about financial stability. However, the thing that gets me is that someone has to be “blamed” and the money for this stability come from them. I’m a doctor, so obviously have a bias in this regard. Their doctor was trying to give them the best chance to have a baby, through IVF. That doesn’t sound like he was trying to do harm.
Hopefully the new National Disability Insurance Scheme will help to avoid having to use these methods to provide financially for people in this situation.
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I find it so hard not to be angry at the wrongful birth case. My child has a moderate-severe disability and had I known this before he was born I still would’ve given him life. I also have over a decade of experience working with disabled adults so I know what could lie ahead for us. Yes it’s hard but my son is worth it and if I have another child and they too have a disability they will be no less treasured than any “normal” child. It breaks my heart knowing that people would think that children like my son or like those I have worked with would’ve been better off not being born. And to Anon who keeps commenting that this child has brain damage and won’t know what’s going on wake up to yourself. Only someone totally ignorant would believe that a person with brain damage can’t pick up on what’s going on around them, no matter how severe. Try actually getting to know someone with a severe disability and you will learn that they have their own unique personalities and that they are VERY attuned to those around them. Just because someone can’t communicate verbally or respond how you expect them to does not mean that they aren’t taking in or processing what is going on around them.
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I wish I had Gina Rinehart’s money. So many things that you could do. Like set up trusts that generate even more money for research and better lives for people with cancer, disabilities, mental ill health and on and on …
Maybe, she does that already and I could pass on some ideas to her … anyone got a phone number for the Rineharts?
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I just read this IVF article on Ninemsn. Very close to home, I have had the same problem with my 8 month old. I have the same blood mutation and my boy had a stroke although he has been very lucky to so far and has minimal side effects. I don’t believe suing is the answer HOWEVER, whilst I was going through IVF I was the one who pushed for further blood tests as I miscarried my doctor said they don’t usually do those tests until you have about 6 failed attempts. That is a lot of money and emotional heartbreak to go through for a test that costs next to nothing. I was then placed on blood thinners for my pregnancy. I personally think that more genetic preparation work needs to be carried out to really understand why people aren’t conceiving. I always felt that as long as you have the money the doctor would just keep putting you through the cycles.
I also think that whilst I was pregnant with this blood problem three different doctors had different opinions on how to treat the condition and not once was the baby discussed it was more a problem with my body. I now will be seriously investigating it before having more children.
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Gosh… so many things to comment on in the ‘today’s news’ article. Usually there’s only one thing I feel strongly enough to comment on, if at all.
Doctor faced with wrongful birth lawsuit – This is such a sad story to read about. Even if you didn’t have a fulfilling life due to severe disability… imagine hearing that if your parents knew about the disabilities, they wouldn’t want you at all? How awful for the poor child. It reminds me of a book I read by Jodi Picoult called ‘Handle with care’. It dealt with a family going through a wrongful birth lawsuit. The anguish and stress the family in that book (even through I realise that they are fictional) makes me think about this family that are about to embark on the lawsuit. It makes me wonder whether they’ll regret their decision to let everyone know that they never wanted their son.
Aussie Film and TV Awards toast success – Miranda Kerr looks absolutely stunning as always as does Rachel Taylor & Asher Keddie. I’m SO glad Red Dog & the Slap won awards. I really loved both.
Elton John dismisses Madonna, again – Gosh these two are such little bitches aren’t they? It seems like such high school behaviour…. although they’re not even close to high school age are they? (Far from it) Makes me want to tell them to both GROW UP!
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The chlld’s not likely to understand that in this case, since they’re brain-ed due to their medical condition.
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Rinehart worries me a lot…Fairfax being the final refuge of any non-Murdoch press…
What’s really scary is that some analysts thinks she wants to buy Fairfax outright…buy up everyone’s shares and de-list them from the share-market…Rinehart wants Fairfax so that she can use it as her own personal voice…I think it’s a dangerous move for freedom of press in Australia…
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Absolutely agree. It is obvious she, along with Packer have changed channel Ten editorially. To do the same for the only other voice in Australian print media would be a real loss.
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Wrongful birth is very sad indeed. I totally agree with the parents.
As for all the awards that ‘The Slap’ won, depressing, hate everything about that novel.
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Disgraceful about Gina Rinehart. People’s political views should not be able to pervade the media they can afford to buy into. Coming soon to you – half of Fairfax devoted to Andrew Bolt just like Gina and James did at Channel 10.
Get rich off Australia’s minerals Gina and then use the media you own to tell us that the mining tax is wrong. Where are our STRONG media ownership laws???!!!!!!!
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I’d actually been wondering when this wrongful birth case would come up. I read about it a year or so ago when I was researching and writing an essay on whether there should be reformation of abortion and euthanasia laws.
In 2006 the Wallers (not Wellers) took a case on behalf of their son to the High Court. It was a “wrongful life” case in that damages were being sought on behalf of the son, having been born when it would have been preferable not to be born, than on behalf of the parents. The case was dismissed in the NSW Supreme Court and the High Court (for reasons not relevant here), but not all the evidence about the parents’ claim was available in that case and no decision was made with respect to the parents’ claim.
It seems, based on the limited facts available in that case, that the parents may indeed be justified in bringing this action; time will tell.
The strange part is that in the son’s case, the facts agreed upon by the parties included that the IVF doctor, the IVF clinic that performed the fertility tests and the obstetrician responsible for the mother’s antenatal care “ought to have but did not investigate and advise [the Wallers] in relation to [Mr Waller's] AT3 deficiency”, yet they seem to be saying differently now.
Perhaps it is a question as to what extent they should have investigated…i.e. was the referral to a genetic counsellor sufficient to discharge their duty.
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Aside from the legal argument what message is this mother sending her child? I love you but I wish you weren’t born? How can that NOT affect this young boy? The chances of him being born at all are astronomical, love him and don’t ever let him think he is unwanted, not even for a second.
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The kid’s severely brain damaged – he’s not going to know about it.
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So that makes it better? I’m sure on some level he knows. I have a brother with mental disability, he knows way more than we give him credit for.
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Obviously that doesn’t make anything better for anyone – it just makes it highly likely that the kid won’t understand anything about what his parents are doing.
“On some level he knows” is a pretty sad assumption – his parents said they love him, and I’m sure they do – as long as they demonstrate that, how on earth would he know? Magic? Voodoo? God telling him??
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I have a mentally disabled brother who also has seizures and life has been really difficult for my family. People call him a retard even now at 42 and he still lives at home with my 70 year old mother. Life hasn’t been easy for my family, I got teased at school for being his sister, my family were at times treated differently because of my brother but never once have we ever felt it necessary to say ‘you should never have been born’. In fact, I stand up for my brother at any opportunity. His life has made my family better human beings. His hardships have become our hardships and we are more caring and understanding that people who have not had to live with a person with disability. My brother was adopted, as am I. My parents never said ‘this baby isn’t normal, let’s return him or sue the agency for money’. Just saying
This boy’s full mental state has not been released, certainly not in this post nor on the linked post to the Australian. Nobody said what his level of mental understanding is. Babies are born all the time with disabilities, but how sad is it that a parent is willing to go to court and publicly say ‘I wish my son was never born’. You get what you get.
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On a lighter note, it is hard to believe that it has been 27 years since Ferris Buelleur’s Day Off was first released, have you seen Matthews new ad that will be screened at the Super Bowl next Sunday night for the new Honda CRV.
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/matthew-broderick-reprises-ferris-bueller-for-car-ad-20120131-1qqw6.html
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I have and I was very excited. Ferris Bueller is one of my favourite movies and I watch it at least once a year!
However, a friend of mine did point out that it is a little in bad taste considering Matthew was involved in a vehicle accident that killed two people in Ireleand in 1987. He was at fault apparently so selling cars could be seen as in very bad taste. Thoughts?
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I feel that its unreasonable to expect a doctor to be responsible for this. They were advised to contact a genetic counsellor and whilst I realise they hit the difficulty of the public health system the family ultimately chose not to follow through on that advise.
I carry a genetic condition. I saw a genetic counsellor many years prior to falling pregnant and was told the only way to avoid having a child with the condition i carry was to have IVF and destroy any embryos that had the condition. I didnt feel comfortable with this and feel pregnant the old fashioned way!
My little boy now has the condition, but I have no regrets. It will certainly impact his life but not in a way that I felt he doesnt deserve to walk this earth.
I disagree with an earlier comment that a very similar person would have been born if they had destroyed any embryos with the condition. I feel each person is unique. Who are we to judge whether they should live or not??
There have been numerous studies that have shown that drs and patients dont agree on quality of life – patients most often rate their quality of life much higher.
It makes me sad that persons with a disability aren’t more highly valued in our community. Whilst I recognise this family bears a significant burden it seems so unfair that there focus on “solving” the “problem” of disability rather than supporting families appropriately.
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All depends on what the disability is really. I feel strongly that is it a personal choice. I would in no way give birth to a baby that would have a disability, it would be far more heartbreaking watching it grow up than never knowing it at all. Of course if you do have the child, you love it to bits like we all do with our kids. That is what would make it all the more heartbreaking, all that love and seeing your child dealing with extra issues. Not for me I am afraid.
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Agree. The suffering of children is not divine. It is not a ‘good’ in itself. Having a suffering child is not a pious sign for others to see. It is not God teaching someone a lesson about something or other.
It’s a challenge. If it happens unknown, so be it.
If I am forwarned through genetic tests, I’ll not force a child to a life of suffering as the result of a disability if I (as their parent) deem it to be too much.
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I’m the one who made the earlier comment you mention.
Each person is unique. In each scenario, only one person would have existed, and you would never have known any better.
As for quality of life, his parents are in a much better condition to judge it than you are. They’ve made an honest, heartwrenching call. To answer your question: who are we to judge whether they should live or not, the answer is: they are his parents. Who else do you suggest?
Secondly, the issue with multiple embryos exists for any IVF case. Your personal preference and religious beliefs (espeically that an embryo is already a person) applies equally to a standard IVF scenario (no genetic issues or tests) to this one (genetic issues requiring genetic tests).
If you are against the genetic tests for that reason (that embryos are discarded) you must be against all forms of IVF.
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i am really surprised the doctor didn’t send them for genetic testing or counselling, surely that is his role. IVF specialists would deal with these situations on a fairly regular basis, this would not be unusual. he did the wrong thing, he should pay. a post-it note is not ok. it is normal standard for a referral letter to be sent.
10 million is probably enough to cover their needs and not much more. caring for such a disabled child is 24 hour care/7 days a week.
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This sort of approach really bothers me (sueing for wrongful birth). There are so many facts about this case that we don’t know. For instance, why did they have IVF? If it was because of this genetic condition, then yes there has been a lapse in duty of care. But that wouldn’t make sense because surely the IVF specialist would have begun the process of PGD (pre-implantation genetic diagnosis) which is long, and complicated.
I suspect the condition was mentioned as part of the fathers medical history and the speciliast recommended he follow it up, which they didn’t do. I remember almost an exact conversation with my FS. I was given the no. to the genetic counsellor on a post it note. This is often how specialists work. The FS would have waited to get a report from the counsellor – if none was forthcoming he would have presumed it was safe to continue. (I am presuming). My FS did some basic screening but I don’t see it as their responsbility to screen for evey disease possible.
IVF isn’t comprised of one consultation and bam you are pregnant. I saw my FS over a dozen times within a short space of time. Where is the responsibility of the parents to bring up their concerns? They would have had ample opportunity. Or with their OB once they got pregnant. Or at the hospital immediately after he was born.
I feel sad when I see these sorts of stories linked to IVF as most people really don’t understand the process and it confuses the issues. I feel for the family, brining up a child with a disabiity is hard. But I don’t agree with suing anyone they can for it. Like others have said – bring on a national disability scheme.
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“I suspect the condition was mentioned as part of the fathers medical history and the speciliast recommended he follow it up, which they didn’t do. ”
The article specifically refutes that – it’s not what happened.
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I’ve reread the article and can’t see where it refutes it but happy to be proven wrong.
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They say they were never told about the risk of passing on the disease, and were only given the genetic counsellor’s phone number in the context of discussing fertility, not the father’s condition as you suggested. Two quotes from the article below.
“Tragically, the Wallers did not know there was a 50 per cent chance that Keeden would have the defective gene.”
and
“The Wallers told Dr James about Lawrence’s blood clotting condition, and they claim he breached his duty of care to them by failing to take proper steps to find out whether it could be passed on by just one parent.
In the first day of the hearing yesterday, Justice John Hislop heard that Dr James did not seek to find out the answer himself, but handed the couple the name and phone number of a genetic counsellor at Wollongong Hospital on a post-it note. It is alleged the note was given to the Wallers in the context of a discussion about fertility not genetics, and that the phone number was the main switchboard for the hospital rather than the counsellor’s direct line.”
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See, I still stand by my original comment. It appears it was mentioned as part of his medical history. I found an article that discusses their previous claim in 2006 and the condition was not part of the infertility. So who is responsible for the genetic counselling?
How did the father first find out about? Surely he was counselled then. His GP knew about it, why didn’t he refer him on for counselling. The father knew he had a condition, why didn’t he take steps.
See there are a lot of things we don’t know. I just struggle with the notion that the IVF doctor is at fault, purely because he assisted in getting them pregnant. From my experience with IVF, if they went into it worried about this condition then they would have undertaken PGD – not soemthing done easily or lightly.
Where does personal responsibility lie. And who would they blame if the baby was conceived naturally?
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If their baby had been conceived naturally they’d be saying ‘oh well, these things happen. No one is at fault’ but because the doctor assisted in getting them pregnant they feel they can blame him. I agree with you, the IVF doctor isn’t Mr Wallers GP so it wouldn’t be up to him to discuss the disorder with Mr Waller. That’s something you’d discuss with your GP upon being diagnosed.
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From the sounds of the wrongful birth case, the Wellers were given a referral (not following correct procedures) and failed to follow up on it. They probably figured that as Lawrence Weller was fine, it was minimal risk and let it go.
My friend’s daughter has the same condition caused by a stroke in utero, which turned out to be unlucky, but they thought it was genetic for some time. They know it isn’t genetic because of the testing they went through before planning another baby. They would not have let that ‘referral’ slip away.
I would be very interested to know who is advising them legally, because this area is quite grey to me. I hope they don’t lose a lot of money in this, but I have a great deal of sympathy for them and if I thought that I could get some money to help my son, I’d do it too.
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As the article said, Slater and Gordon are advising them – and I have no doubt they’re doing it on a no-win, no-fee basis.
“The Waller’s solicitor, Bill Madden from Slater and Gordon, said that the compensation claim was largely made up of the costs of accommodation, food and caring for the Keeden full-time.
“Neither parent have been able to work much, they’ve had to modify their home – the financial impact of something like this is huge.”"
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/ivf-doctor-faces-10-million-wrongful-birth-case-20120131-1qrh3.html#ixzz1l5TuUPoI
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That would be great if it was no win-no fee. I think this is a huge risk for the family.
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That’s how Slaters do most of these cases.
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I don’t think the doctor is at fault here. The parents knew they had the condition, they mentioned it to their Ivf specialist who gave them the number of someone who knew more about it. I asked my ob about a building substance I accidentally inhaled during my first trimester. He said he didn’t know anything about it but wrote the name and number of mothersafe on a bit of paper and told me to call them, which I did. It was fine. But if I hadn’t and it wasn’t fine, is it my ob’s fault or mine for not following it up?t
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” The parents knew they had the condition, they mentioned it to their Ivf specialist who gave them the number of someone who knew more about it.”
That’s not what happened, as you’d know if you’d read the article
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For those of you that want more information on the wrongful birth story you can find it here:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/ivf-doctor-faces-10-million-wrongful-birth-case-20120131-1qrh3.html
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I link the source articles in the headline as well, for future reference!
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Ha! I had no idea, thanks
I feel a bit silly not noticing that but I suspect I am not the only one.
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You’re not alone! I periodically get asked – very politely – to link to the original news articles. They’re chameleon links!
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I really, really get upset by wrongful life cases.
Firstly, what are they trying to say, that they didn’t know anti-thrombin III deficiency was a genetic disorder? That they would have preferred to use donor sperm? That they would have chosen not to have a baby at all?
Secondly, most people with AT3 deficiency live pretty normal lives, 0.2% of the population has it. This poor boy was very unlucky to have a stroke. Many people with the condition never have a clot, ad those that do usually have a DVT (deep vein thrombosis) in the leg, not a condition where they would say they would prefer not to have been born.
It is unrealistic to expect that just because a baby is born through IVF it will be perfect, and have a perfect life.
Cases like this increase the cost of medical treatment for everyone else, through increased insurance costs. The IVF doctor & team did not give this boy a stroke. Fair enough to sue if a doctor chops of the wrong leg, but this couple went in asking to have a baby from his sperm & her egg, and that’s what they got.
Finally, this is not a precedent we want to set. Who here thinks people with cystic fibrosis should not have children? Or women who have had breast cancer? Or people with a history of mental illness? I dont think that we (society) should be setting up judgement panels deciding who gets to have kids, just in case those kids decide their life wasn’t good enough and sue later. I know it is a slippery slope argument, but it is a relevant one when it comes to the law of precedents.
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” Who here thinks people with cystic fibrosis should not have children? Or women who have had breast cancer? Or people with a history of mental illness? I dont think that we (society) should be setting up judgement panels deciding who gets to have kids, just in case those kids decide their life wasn’t good enough and sue later. ”
I don’t think society has the right to decide those things – but I sure as heck believe individuals with any medical condition should have the right to decide whether to have kids, or any individual kid, and should get accurate information from their doctors (particularly if you’re talking about IVF, where genetic screening can be incorporated into the process) to base that decision on. We’re not talking about a child suing, we’re talking about their parents suing – parents who will have life-long costs of caring for a disabled child, and probably at this point no other option for getting that money.
Bring on the National Disability Insurance Scheme – but until it’s here, this isn’t something we should be blaming parents for doing.
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Agree.
I don’t know anything more about the case other than what is listed here, but from Idle Dad’s comments, it sounds like the parents never followed up on seeing a genetic counsellor. They need to accept some responsibility.
If your GP gives you a form for a cholesterol test, you never get round to doing it then years later have a heart attack, is it their fault?
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Knee jerk reaction to the article about parents suing specialist:
Every child is born for a reason, God has chosen you to raise a special needs child, he obviously knows you are capable of handling this great responsibility.
I know I am probably opening a can of worms bringing God into it but as I said it was my initial KNEE JERK reaction. I am actually on the fence with this one cause I don’t know all the facts.
That being said I am still undecided on issues like IVF, abortion, and genetic testing. I guess we can never say what is right or wrong for some one else until we walk a mile in their shoes.
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I had a knee-jerk reaction to this comment (and I promise, I’m not having a go at you, I just feel differently and respect your opinion):
When people say God only gives you what you’re capable of handling, I automatically think of a dozen examples of people I know who’ve been completely broken by what they’ve been ‘given’. People who have committed or attempted suicide, lost custody of their children, been institutionalised…even when I think of one woman I know, who has devoted her life to caring for her disabled child – yes, she’s incredibly strong and does everything she can to give her child the best possible life she can – but neither of them has a happy life, or even one day without anguish in some form.
I haven’t yet read enough specifics about this particular case, but I can imagine it must be incredibly hard for them to have to say publicly and with all of their names revealed that they wish their child hadn’t been born. It must be so hard to be that brutally honest.
My heart goes out to all the parents of disabled children, both those who do feel they can handle it and those who couldn’t.
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Likewise, I guess you won’t mind my knee jerk reaction concerning aspects of the accepted blind sighted devotional concept of God having him quite cruel actually if this statement is anything to go by. My idea of God would be a pure source of love and that does not include deliberate suffering. There are strong people who can handle all that is thrown their way and others that don’t do so well. Making it a God issue makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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M., I have to disagree. I don’t think that God chooses us to raise a special needs child, I think that a sperm and egg meet etc etc. What happens then is up to chance and biology. We can only hope that God gives us the strength to get through what life throws at us, but TO ME God doesn’t ‘give’ us disease, trauma, money or a happy life, just like God doesn’t ’cause’ earthquakes or tsunamis. Having said this, I think your comment was not offensive at all, just disagree.
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@mamamia couldn’t you have put the AACTA Awards results on a separate page?!
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Scrolling from heartbreak to glamour in one quick click cheapens it somewhat.
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It’s a news round-up. Just like the news anywhere else there will be a variety of stories that run the gamut of content.
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Oh, Miranda Kerr, you stunning woman, you.
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Agreed, she’s such a babe.
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Has anyone read Jodi Picoult’s “Handle With Care” (fiction, I know)? This case reminds me of this – daughter born with OI, and after years of financially crippling medical bills, the parents decide to sue their OBGYN (conveniently the mother’s best friend) because they’re in a tight financial situation.
Knowing the toll that disability can take on a family (financial, emotional, time, everything), I understand why the Wellers have decided to sue. As others have said below, $10 mil might seem like a lot, but it is what Keenan’s care will cost over a lifetime. The doctor in question will no doubt have medical malpractice insurance – and this is what this case is essentially about, medical malpractice. As a health professional, he has a duty of care to his patients that is not covered by a single phone number on a Post It.
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Thats the grey area for me. Was it actually malpractice? If the baby’s birth had been seriously botched or he was dropped on his head fair enough. This is possibly just one of the crappy things life deals that is out of everyones control.
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I agree and the deficiency doesn’t usually cause trouble in babies- the clots are more likely to happen invite age. The dad for instance is fine. He is meant to be here.
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And why should that boy get $10 million, and the naturally conceived boy in the next ward with a similar problem get nothing?
Increased support for all people with disabilities, and equitable distribution of resources is a better option in my opinion.
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And that’s why the Government wants to introduce a National Disability Insurance Scheme, so people don’t have to rely on suing a doctor to get the money they need for treatment, and people get the money they need for treatment regardless of how they end up with a disability.
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In my previous job, I did a lot of work on the NDIS. It’s a policy that I hope gets passed and approved quickly – there’s not enough support for people with disability in Australia. I encourage everyone to support the campaign: http://everyaustraliancounts.com.au/
You may not have a connection to disability now, but you will in future. 1 in 5 Australians have a disability (admittedly ranging from functional to non-functional). There’s every chance that someone in your family or friendship network will be born with a disability. If you want them to have the same rights to a fruitful life with adequate care as all Australians, support the campaign now.
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Like you said – this is potentially just a crappy deal in life – but the parents are trying to make the best of it and ensure their child gets the best care money can buy.
As a parent, I would do everything I could to ensure that my disabled child had all the support they had. This particular case means that the Wellers have the potential to gain their child $10 mil for his primary care over his lifetime – I can’t judge them for wanting to ensure that he would still be cared for after they are gone.
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and if they had conceived the child naturally and he had the condition and then still had the stroke, as unlucky as that is, then who would they sue?
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I don’t think “What Ifs” help in discussing this very particular case. It’s a comment on this specific case, not a comment on the principles of IVF/genetic screening as a whole. They had an IVF specialist, they asked about the risks, and their concerns weren’t treated with the necessary care from the HCP. Pretty clear-cut.
Unfortunately until the NDIS becomes a viable reality for all Australians living with disability, it is very much a “every man for himself” game. I see the parents as doing everything they can to ensure their son gets the support he needs. If he had been conceived naturally, they would still be doing everything they can to ensure he gets support – it just wouldn’t involve a lawsuit.
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I feel sorry for the poor kid. Imagine finding out that you’re parents said you should have never been born even though they don’t mean it in the way that it sounds.
Elton John needs to grow up! But he’s such a mole that it’s quite hilarious
Love the colour of Miranda’s dress! Samantha Harris looks stunning as usual
xxxmissvxxx.wordpress.com
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The child isn’t likely to find that out, or understand it, considering he has severe brain damage.
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You keep saying the child has severe brain damage Anon.
In the article it says he had a severe stroke which resulted in brain damage. It doesnt say how severe the damage is… Just that he cant walk, talk or go to the toilet.
From the look of the photo’s the child doesnt seem to be in a vegetative state and may very be aware of his surroundings and the things that could be said in front of him to lawyers etc by this parents on the phone.
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I winced at the thought of being “zapped” in my “nether regions’ – it conjures up thoughts of being hit by a cricket ball. No doubt there be a more appealing marketing piece devised should it become mainstream.
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I’m completely torn on the story of the parents suing the IVF specialist. It’s incredibly tragic. If you knew the father had a genetic disorder, wouldn’t you do every little bit of research possible to find out what chance there would be that the gene would be passed down to your child? That said – shouldn’t the doctor do it too?
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There’s a few things we don’t know about this case. Did the parents know that either of them were carriers of this genetic disorder?
If not, it’s like asking the doctors to find a needle in a haystack, without even knowing you’re looking for a needle in the first place. Genetic testing isn’t as simple as people might imagine – and it’s a lot easier to search for something if you know what you’re looking for.
Tragic situation though. The more advanced medicine gets, the more complex problems it throws at us.
PS. I’m a different Catherine than the one below. This is confusing! I need to register a proper screen name!
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Just get an avatar, that’s what I did when another Shannon popped up!
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It’s impossible to screen for everything Lucy, and then how do you decide which embryos to chuck out, even if you were able to run a panel of genetic tests? Would you keep the embryo with the obesity gene but no high risk breast cancer genes? What about the one who would carry, but not have cystic fibrosis?
This is a simplification, and we are a long way from genetic testing of embryos being quick & cheap & accurate enough to routinely run a ‘panel’, but my point is, it still won’t be a guarantee of a perfect baby.
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Elton John is a grown man and a dad, why must he behave like a 4 year old whose sister stole his toys. We all have colleagues we don’t like but as adults we don’t publicly snipe and moan at them.
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I feel sorry for the family but think what they are execting is unreasonable. Conception, like birth and life is a lottery and involves risks. Even if the genetic screening found no problems. I’m uncomfortable with this sort of screening anyway. Where do we draw the line? We already have people manipulating it to have gender selection for lifestyle reasons. What next? Sometimes shit things happen, and you cant control it and its not fair, but I dont think suing a medical professional who gives hope to people who desperately want a baby is the answer to dealing with it.
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I feel parenthood is something you take on for better or worse. Even people who are blessed with a “” normal” child can down the track find their child e.g. has cancer, or is terribly injured in an accident. I don’t like to read that a disabled child “” should never have been born”, nor do i Like to read that people kill girl babies because they wanted a boy or abort male twins because they wanted girl, or abort Downes Syndrome babies because they wanted a normal child.
I think embarking on parenthood comes with risks that you won’t get you want on many levels and people need to acknowledge that from the get go. Some people choose not to have kids at all because they know they don’t want to be self sacrificing or they feel they would not be good parents.
Nevetheless, caring for a disabled child can be terribly demanding emotionally and physically ( I have done it ) and governments and communities should be doing more to support families with disabled children in terms of finances, respite care and permanent residential care.
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Absolutely. When I was pregnant with each of my children I opted not to have the nuchal translucency. I wasnt old enough to be in the risk age group to need an amnio. I discussed it with my husband and Obstetrician and we decided that if there was anything detected the results would not change our decision. We were signing up to have a baby unconditionally. So it was pointless going ahead with it. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to have a disabled child but I really dont think deciding whether or not that child deserves a chance at life is my decision to make simply because they dont form our idea of what ‘perfect’ is. And again, where do we draw the line with this. What disability or genetic condition makes a baby unworthy of life and what is ok?
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You don’t see parallels to abortion rights here? Fine, you made the decision not to test and chance it, but should others be denied that choice?
Isn’t saying “don’t try for kids unless you are prepared to have a disabled kid” similar to “don’t have sex unless you are prepared to get pregnant”?
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Thats how I feel about the issue personally – for my family. But I support freedom of choice for all women. I just dont know about this being something that the Doctor should be held legally responsible for. Was he negligent, was it an oversight, did the family make their doctors aware of the risk or was it just one of those things that can happen??
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I worked in a paediatric practice for about 4 years. You get to know the parents who come regularly with disabled children pretty well. Sometimes, I asked them what it was like and they would say that it was different to what they expected but it was great and they wouldn’t be without their child ever. One family had two sons with a genetic disorder that meant they were severely intellectually and physically handicapped and that was their response to me too. None of the parents seemed unhappy to have the child, just burdened by the work and expense.
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I am feeling increasingly uncomfortable when I hear about parents suing for these reasons. I do not presume to understand the immense heartbreak and difficulty this family experiences on a daily basis, I’m just not convinced a specialist should be held directly responsible. I think this is the ultimate example of why as a community we need to provide so much more support for families in situations like this. Disability care is given a very small amount of attention and it impacts so many people.
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You might not be able to understand the heartbreak and difficulties, but could you at least try to understand how much life-time care for a disabled child costs? Parents are left without other options than to sue a medical practitioner if they can, and hope to get some money that will help keep their child cared for, particularly after they’re not around any more.
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I completely agree that the life time cost of caring for a child with a disability is enormous and incredibly difficult.
I also don’t think this cost is the responsibility of the medical practitioner.
As a society we need to find a way to provide assistance for families in these situations and not simply try to find someone to blame (unless it is clear that the practitioner is in fact at fault which does not necessarily seem to be the case).
There is not doubt that this family (and many others) require assistance, I just don’t think it should be coming from suing the practitioner if they are not at fault.
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I feel for the Weller family as I’m sure every parent only wishes for a healthy baby, plus the heartache of not being able to concieve naturally on top of that would be awful. But, I feel the are wrong for suing the IVF doctor. It’s human nature to want to point the blame at some one, anyone. But I’m sure if they had conceived naturally they would change their tune to ‘it’s no ones fault, these things just happen’
I hope that child isn’t able to tell that his parents feel he shouldn’t be alive.
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I agree. Why should the doctor have to fund the money if he had no hand in what went ‘wrong’. How about the well being of his family & children? Would they be satisfied that that family is ruined & suffering, but their now rich?
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Now whilst we havent walked a day in their shoes, i absolutely agree. IVF should not be used as a means to get a “flawless” child.
How far should the “checking” go?
If they had conceived naturally, who would they be suing? Their parents for the shoddy genes they were given?
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If they’d concieved naturally, I’m guessing a GP would have referred them correclty to a specialist, and also followed up with a test for the condition.
When did ‘healthy and free from suffering’ become ‘flawless’ I wonder? And in who’s mind?
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@AnIdleDad – following an IVF pregnancy, you go straight to an obstetrician or GP – just as you would after a natural conception.
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I would think mentioning issues while discussing anything with my doctor is adequate to ensure the right answers are found and the correct medical processes are followed.
In hindsight, they should obviously had kept bringing it up, and the OB or GP would have helped them, but he was the original practitioner – who failed to follow process (note, that is what is claimed, that hasn’t been ruled on yet) and fulfil his duty of care.
If this was the Dad, getting heart surgery and he mentioned to the specialist he had the condition, and the surgeon said they didn’t know anything about that condition “here’s a post it note with the name of someone who might”, went ahead with the surgery without asking about it again and the Dad died during surgery as a result – it’d be a clear cut case of the surgeon failing to follow through with his duty of care.
But because it involves a child, somehow it is ‘different’ and the parents are responsible for medical research and to advise the specialist. And the fall out? Just bad luck about that kid.
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I do understand your point but it is a little different because genetic testing isn’t mandatory. And if the parents had chosen not to do it, it wouldn’t be up to the specialist to convince them to. Pregnancies take place all the time without genetic testing – whether through IVF or natural. It’s definitely a sad situation, but to suggest he should never have been born and that one man should bare the cost seems excessive to me.
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So what bugs you is the parents have been honest and said they would have chosen a disorder free embryo.
This offends your sensibilities, so the doctor gets a pass.
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No, that’s not what bugs me at all. I would never judge a choice of that nature. What I’m saying is it’s not up to the IVF specialist to ensure parents pursue genetic testing. Those decisions aren’t mandatory and are entirely up to the parents. They expressed their desire for the testing and, from what you say, he has passed on the relevant information. And sometimes even tests go wrong. I just think suing doctors for millions of dollars in cases like this, where gross negligence hasn’t taken place opens a potentially dark door.
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The article does not go into detail but I would have thought if a prospective parent had a health issue which was serious they would seek genetic counselling/do some googling etc BEFORE embarking on a pregnancy. An IVF specialist is not a specialist in genetic counselling.
The medical profession is not infallible and mistakes will happen. People are ill advised to be passive recipients of health care. If anyone tells me they are seeing a doctor/health worker about something I always encourage them to get a second or third opinion. even if you are getting appropriate treatment for a health issue from a health professional, it may be that other treaters could offer you something more
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I don’t think parents raising genetic concerns with an IVF specialist is so left-of-field that he could not refer them adequeately, or follow up on the referral.
He’s not a call centre worker who forgot to fill out some refund paperwork, he is a highly paid, highly trained medical practitioner.
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The articles says the parents were aware of their genetic history…I would have assumed that if they had conceived naturally that they would have asked for the test?
I need to know more I think…did they ask the specialist to do the test? Did he ignore them? If so, why didn’t they insist?
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Given that they knew the dad carried the disease, there’s a chance they deliberately conceived via IVF in order that they didn’t pass on the disease. In that case I can understand them suing.
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That doesn’t really make sense. Surely you wouldnt go through the invasivness and expense of IVF on an assumption it gives you a healthy baby, you would ask the question?
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I have been through an IVF pregnancy and a natural pregnancy. Once conception takes place, both experiences are identical and all follow-up tests are the same (the process begins a little earlier with IVF because you become aware of the pregnancy earlier). I think suing the IVF specialist is wrong, unless they were told embryos would be tested prior to transfer. Which opens up another can of worms – personally I’m uncomfortable with extensive testing of embryos. In my view, IVF is a means of combatting infertility.
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Why limit what IVF is capable of? I honestly can’t understand this idea…
This child could have lived a full and healthy life. Instead, an avoidable problem damaged his brain just days after his birth.
He can’t walk, talk or relieve himself. He has seizures.
When the technology is available and all you have to do is – look – why would you choose not to and curse a child?
What do you say to that child? “Bad luck, kid”?
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Whether IVF should be used to screen for genetic diseases is a different issue that this case.
Unless the IVF specialist personally promised to test for this condition – and didn’t – he doesn’t deserve to be sued. And unless that is the case, IVF has nothing to do with their situation, as sad as it is.
If it weren’t an IVF pregnancy, would they be suing their obstetrician/GP?
If you are able to avoid a situation like this through genetic testing, and choose to use the technology to do so, that’s great.
But to say he should never have been born and blame the medical professionals who are there to help is taking it one step too far in my view.
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Yes, I’m wondering if their GP and/or OBGYN have been joined as defendants in this case. There are a lot of steps in the process when opportunity for screening/testing/discussion arises. I suspect the facts will unfold.
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Uh, no. they cant fix the embryo when they find out its unhealthy so that it can go on and lead a healthy fulfilling life. they terminate it. the ethical dilemma is fairly clear…
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Indeed. This exact child would not have been born, a very, very similar child – one without lifelong suffering ahead of them – would have been born instead.
IVF already creates more embryos than are impregnated, so that ethical dllemma (one, you of course are willing to make on behalf of the parents) doesn’t apply any more than any other IVF treatment.
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How much responsibility should fall on the shoulders of the specialist? It is still just a flawed human being doing the best they can with the tests and information available to them. So the tests didn’t show the abnormality, or the specialist missed the signs – these things happen. When are individuals going to understand that there cannot be complete control over nature, and that doctors don’t have superpowers? If you are so concerned about passing on the abnormality, take some responsibility yourself and choose not to have children – stop passing the buck.
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$10 million is a lot of money…
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Sure, until you consider two people can easy earn $10 million over their working career, that at least one parent is unable to work anymore, the additional cost of providing care and medical services and then, as the parents won’t live forever, money to cover his life after their death…
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Lets say you and i are both 18 and one of us gets a $10m inheritance, invests the money and lives off the inheritance… the other person works for their keep and manages to earn $10m in their working lifetime.
We both own identical value house both own the same type of car, same holidays etc…. when we die at 100 who do you think will die with more money….
I agree yes medical costs will add up. But yeah I agree $10m invested wisely is a lot of money!
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Unfortunately, this child won’t have the opportunity to ‘earn their keep’.
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Thats my point – you don’t need to work if you have $10m. I am not trying to put a value on life. Just saying $10m is nothing to sneeze at.
I was actually having this discussion with someone last night (different case – actually my Father). He got offered a reasonable amount of money at mediation. Lawyer said go to court you will get more, went to court and got nothing, but ongoing medical costs for the rest of his life. Which is still good, but mediation was some cash for pain and suffering and ongoing medical costs. My Dad was happy for that but thought his lawyer knew best.
Some people get greedy is all I am saying.
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It would be worked out as the cost of lifetime care for someone who can’t feed or toilet for themselves. Plus physical therapies and special modifications to any home he lives in etc.
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Ten million is not a lot of money when you have a child with a severe disability and who needs 24 hour supervision for the rest of his life… which could be well after his parents have died… Wouldn’t you want to make sure your child was looked after?
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This is why reproductive technology should be advanced, not rolled back. Where’s the happy in this story?
We need more genetic testing, earlier in the pregnancy (and in cases where possible, prior to the pregnancy).
I know the ‘happy rainbows’ will say if you aren’t prepared for disabled children, don’t try to have any kids, but that’s complete bullshit.
We have the techology, we should use it.
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If what they are saying is true, it does seem strange that the specialist didn’t test for that particular syndrome…
Does anyone know how reliable/common that test is?
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The IVF specialist gave them a post-it note with a name and a hospital switch number, during a conversation not relating to genetics or the disorder, but fertility. When the switch went unanswered several times, they stopped calling. I assume they didn’t realise the IVF doctor was leaving them to follow up on condition.
At minimum, they should have gotten an introductory cover note from the IVF specialist to give to the geneticist, the exact contact details and then a follow up enquiry before proceeding.
My local GP can do it, why can’t a specialist? This is a question of due diligence.
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It doesnt look as though the parents went back to the IVF specialist saying that no one answered the phone at the number they were given either.
Perhaps he would have given them a different option to call.
The doctor isnt a mind reader, nor is he a babysitter for people who dont follow up on information they were given (regardless of if it were a post it note or official letter)
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Agree, agree, agree.
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Having been through IVF myself, I can say that all of these medical questions are asked and I know we given the opportunity to go through further testing prior to starting the whole process if we chose (which we did).
They too should have had this opportunity. Also if they knew about his condition, did it not come from a family member? One would think that the father would have a full understanding of his condition?
Sorry, but sometimes you have to take responsibilty and be prepared for the consequences.
I think couples are very lucky to have access to IVF.
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I was agreeing with the advancement of tech part of the argument, but sure
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Surely that’s why they went through IVF in the first place? I assumed that there was a mistake in the genetic testing somewhere along the way.
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They were lucky to have access to IVF, but they were unlucky to have a specialist who didn’t follow basic referral processes (judgement pending).
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I completely agree Idle.
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More and more I’m thinking that the dinner party rules have been overstepped with some of the comments. I know it sounds like kindergarten rules but please everyone – if you don’t like it, please just be quiet. Must we criticize everything? If you don’t like the site, go elsewhere.
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I know I know…I’m sorry…I’m normally the one who makes comments like yours, but I had such a deep gut reaction to that one story this morning…it just felt wrong to me…
I’ll shut-up and be a good boy now…
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we all has a frind who chucks a tanty occasionally, and because we love them we just listen while they rant and never take offence as we know they mean no harm
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And I’ll stop being so “holier than thou”!!!
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Debate and argy bargy is fun! But it’s a little hard explaining every other day that yes, there are four news items each morning and yes, I can guarantee each and every one of you will find my choice of at least 25% of them lacking and no, it’s not the only news out there and yes, it’s meant to be a mixed sample to invite everyone to the discussion…
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I like your news, Rick. And I like having a free forum in which to discuss said news, because my work colleagues are boring.
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LOL, that just made me chortle
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Read about the Weller family case on a news website, and have to say it doesn’t sit right with me. The IVF specialist didn’t know details about the possibility of passing on the genetic disorder so referred them to seek counseling elsewhere. If it was a concern for the family, shouldn’t they take responsibility for not investigating further. And I wonder who they would be suing if they conceived the child naturally? Im sorry if this seems harsh, but I feel terrible when people sue like this, I think it undermines other more serious cases where drs have actually been neglectful. I do feel terribly sorry for the family and the pain, suffering & expense are unimaginable to me- I’m just not sure this is fair on the IVF dr?
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I know what you mean about how you feel when people sue like this. And who would they sue if it had been a natural conception? No-one, presumably.
I always wonder how the kids feel when they understand the cases.
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He knew the father had the inheritable genetic disorder, knew he didn’t know anything about it, gave them a post it note with a name and number but never followed up with a question like “Did you see the genetic specialist?”
When my local GP refers me to a specialist, they give me a cover letter explaining the reason for the referral to the specialist, the exact contact details of the specialist and the next time I visit my GP, they take two seconds to ask me how it went and the results – espeically if they haven’t heard back from the doctor.
A post-it note? No cover letter? No follow up? I don’t see how this is unfair.
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You don’t think suggesting he owes them $10 mil because he didn’t nag them enough to see another specialist seems a bit overboard?
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Nag?
Wow.
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I use the term tongue in cheek because genetic testing is not mandatory, nor is it life or death. It is totally up to the parents whether or not they choose to go down that path.
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Quick question, not totally news related (although perhaps news-worthy, if I’m right) did anyone watch Excess Baggage last night? I don’t watch any of those programs, but caught the last few minutes while waiting for Big Bang Theory to start and their ‘weigh-in’ was happening. However, I saw no mention of weight – I only saw body fat percentage, waist circumference and fitness score.
Is this right? Does this show not focus on weight, but on improving fitness (and, by consequence, health)? This does seem like a far better attitude to have to weight loss, quite unlike other weight-loss programs.
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Hi Shannon, Yes it seems to focus on health, fitness and well being which does require weightloss to assist it, but they have been told it’s not about who loses the most weight. I only caught snippets but I think they are not on diets – instead they have free range of the kitchen which is stocked with good foods (and some tempting ones I think). I like the way they are doing it – I’m not sure how they judge it exactly but I think elimination is based on who didn’t try the hardest? Not sure though.
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I’m not sure of all the details either, but I know that they’re given a weekly fitness score out of 10. They’re also judged on their nutrition choices and body fat percentage (I think, correct me if I’m wrong). The other big difference between Excess Baggage and TBL is that they don’t have weekly eliminations – there’s only one elimination halfway through the series. Which is much better in my opinion – give the contestants a chance to actually give it a good crack before shafting them!!
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Yep, it seems a lot gentler than TBL – so far any way. And it’s got Kate Ceberano on it, so I’m in for that reason if no other! LOVE her!
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I haven’t seen much of it, but they do have a nutritionist and psychologist (the lovely Dr Happy, expert in positive psychology), who will presumably be assisting them and teaching those at home some things too. This is a much gentler approach than BL, one which I can get behind a lot more easily.
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Elton John vs Madonna is a news item? Really…?
This has made me feel a little bit dirty reading MM this morning…I feel like I accidentally stumbled upon the New Idea website…
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Personally I like that a story like this was added. One of the things I really like about reading this in the morning is there is something for everyone. From the serious and thought prOvokingly sad to the more light hartted. It provides a nice balance.
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I normally feel that too…but surely there’s something more interesting out there this morning to be the “lighter” story in the mix…Modonna and Elton?…that’s like so 1986…
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For example, why not report on the winners from last night’s AACTA’s…
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Wasn’t it you that pointed out to another commenter the other day the end of the news which asks for people to bring up what else is in their minds?
Things haven’t changed! And I for one thing Elton John is hilarious. Each to their own.
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I’d watch celeb Big Brother or any of those dire reality shows if he was on it. He’s hilarious and such a mole sometimes. Oh, and it was me and Idle that made the comments about the news stories the other day. I’m sure JJ “liked” our comments though.
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Us straights are all alike to Rick
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Totally…
I normally cope well with the celebrity gossip choices on MM…but there’s just something about Madonna and Reginald that feels really tacky…I dunno why…just feels wrong…
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It’s coming, with a gallery and everything
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We’re all forgiven!
…and everyone lived happily ever after…each and every one of us…
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Coincidentally, that news item is on the front page of the New Idea website.
Not that I read it – I googled it when you mentioned New Idea. Then my eyes bled a little upon viewing what they categorize as “news”, and remembered why I don’t read it.
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Seriously?…oh, that just made my day…I literally pulled New Idea out of the ether when I wondered what trashy mag would have that as a headline…
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I kid you not. Though it is at the bottom of their top 5 – which maybe means they rate it less highly than does MM?
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