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Julian assange 236x300 News: Julian Assange seeks asylum

Julian Assange

 

UPDATED

 

There have been so many developments in the Julian Assange/WikiLeaks story, that the whole affair has well-earned itself the label of ‘saga’. As well as the label of ‘confusing’.

The sorry tale gets more and more complicated by the day and the number of countries involved seems to be growing at an infinite rate – soon to rival the international diversity of a Miss Universe beauty pageant.

Let’s try and break it down. Our country’s starring role, comes about because Julian Assange is an Australian citizen, who has been hanging out in England of late (releasing cables, holding press conferences, you know – typical Aussie backpacker stuff).

Prior to being in the land of Duchess Kate and Elton John, Assange was in Sweden. He is currently facing serious allegations of sexual assault in Sweden (which he denies) and has been fighting against the decision of the British Supreme Court to extradite him back to the home of ABBA.

Assange claims that the sexual assault allegations are completely trumped up and that the extradition is simply an effort by the United States (country number 4, enter stage left!) to ultimately have him sent to their neck of the woods because they don’t have a legal basis on which to prosecute him over the WikiLeaks issue.

With that recap in mind – we enter the present day. Assange has now breached his bail and headed to Ecuador (see, this case really is a global tea party). Why was he allowed to get on a plane in the first place, you ask? Well he isn’t physically in Ecuador, he’s just entered their London-based Embassy but in a legal sense – it all means the same thing.

Assange is now seeking political asylum in Ecuador and his family are outraged that the Australian Government has not done more to help him. News.com.au reports that:

Assange went to the building near Harrods in the Knightsbridge section of London on Tuesday afternoon and requested asylum under the United Nations Human Rights Declaration. The country’s foreign minister, Ricardo Patino, said in Quito the government was considering his request.

In a short statement, Assange said, “I can confirm that today I arrived at the Ecuadorian Embassy and sought diplomatic sanctuary and political asylum. This application has been passed to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the capital Quito. I am grateful to the Ecuadorian ambassador and the government of Ecuador for considering my application.”

The chain of events is a complicated one and has the makings of a Hollywood blockbuster, complete with special effects and a guest star appearance by Morgan Freeman as the American President (or God… sitting in judgement over the ethics of releasing confidential cables – whichever).

At its core, this story is really all about the release of the WikiLeaks cables themselves and whether Assange’s actions were illegal (unlikely) or simply unethical (still very much open to debate). And for us Aussies, there is also an added layer of intrigue. After all, this man is one of ours and when an Australian is in trouble overseas, there is a presumption that our Government will go to their aid.

The case is all over the news today, so if you’re after a more in-depth consideration of this chain of events, then Google will be your friend today. For those who have completely forgotten what WikiLeaks even is, then you should have a skim of our handy cheat sheet:

What is WikiLeaks?

It is an international non-profit media organisation that publishes submissions of otherwise unavailable documents from anonymous sources and leaks.

Where can I find it?

http://www.wikileaks.org/

When did it launch?

It launched in 2006 and within a year of its launch claimed a database of more than 1.2 million document

What is its purpose ?

WikiLeaks promises every individual a forum to anonymously publish previously classified, hidden or sensitive documents and make them publicly available. Their goal is to bring important news and information to the public.

They provide an innovative, secure and anonymous way for sources to leak information to their  journalists (through an electronic drop box). One of their most important activities is to publish original source material alongside news stories so readers and historians alike can see evidence of the truth.

Who founded it?

It was founded by Chinese dissidents, as well as journalists, mathematicians, and start-up company technologists from the U.S., Taiwan, Europe, Australia, and South Africa. Julian Assange, an Australian journalist and Internet activist, as its director.

How does it work?wikileaks 130x300 News: Julian Assange seeks asylum

WikiLeaks accept (but do not solicit) anonymous sources of information.  They provide a high security anonymous drop box fortified by cutting-edge cryptographic information technologies. This provides maximum protection to their  sources.

When information comes in, journalists analyse the material, verify it and write a news piece about it describing its significance to society.  They then publish both the news story and the original material in order to enable readers to analyse the story in the context of the original source material themselves.

Do they reveal their sources?

WikiLeaks has never revealed any of its sources.

How do they verify their stories?

WikiLeaks puts every document through a very detailed examination procedure. They use traditional investigative journalism techniques as well as more modern technology-based methods.   Typically they will do a forensic analysis of the document, determine the cost of forgery, means, motive, opportunity, the claims of the apparent authoring organisation, and answer a set of other detailed questions about the document.

Publishing the original source material behind each of their stories is the way in which they show the public that their story is authentic.

Where is it based?

The site is based in Sweden.

Is WikiLeaks related to Wikipedia?

No. Though it has a similar name to Wikipedia, it is not part of Wikipedia or the WikiMedia Foundation

What has WikiLeaks exposed?

In April 2010, WikiLeaks posted video from a 2007 incident in which Iraqi civilians were killed by U.S. forces, on a website called Collateral Murder. In July of the same year, WikiLeaks released Afghan War Diary, a compilation of more than 76,900 documents about the War in Afghanistan not previously available for public review. In October the group released a package of almost 400,000 documents called the Iraq War Logs in coordination with major commercial media organisations.

A full list of what they have exposed can be found here

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260 Comments so far

  1. click here

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  2. mopnbikdaxi

    Which is the people of the mankind’s worst escort shanghai tourists

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  3. vinjonue

    Nice nest site for dominators.
    nice best dest

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  4. WTF?

    Why so many comments from 2010????

    Has the content been rehashed? **shakes head in utter disbelief**

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    • jamilarizvi

      Hi WTF. As you can tell from the article, which mentions developments over the past few days – yes, there is fresh content here. But we have also made it clear that this is an updated post (it says updated right up front). We’ve re-used our previous WikiLeaks cheat sheet because we thought people might find it helpful. Thanks for your comment.

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  5. Anonymous

    Extremely frivolously written story about a serious topic.
    H.o.w.e.v.e.r……it does make the whole story very easy to follow.
    The writing is reminiscent of Rick’s.
    Sigh.

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    • jamilarizvi

      Hi Anonymous,

      As was said above “The case is all over the news today, so if you’re after a more in-depth consideration of this chain of events, then Google will be your friend today.”

      You’re 100% right that this is a serious topic but MM wasn’t going for high level analysis. We were just trying to give readers a simple rundown of the course of events – which have gotten quite complicated – and humour can help make something more understandable.

      I’m glad you found it easy to follow, even if the post wasn’t what you were after. All the best,

      Jamila

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      • Xanthe

        Thanks for reply, Jamila – I in no way meant anything condescending by my comment. Sometimes what little eloquence I have deserts me, and because there’s no face-to-face contact, the meaning of typed words oft gets taken amiss, doesn’t it?

        Anyway, what I meant was – the article broke down the story for me into digestible bites and made the whole saga very clear for me…Wikileaks for Dummies, or Assange for Idiots..?
        Yes, it’s been all over the news today, but the news today hasn’t given much background info so if you hadn’t been following it from the beginning, it’s confusing.

        Your article constructed the whole story from “go” to “not quite whoa yet” in an extremely easy-to-follow manner.

        Rick had (has) the ability and the talent to be able to dissect and precis a story to make what could be a loooong boring one very interesting. Whoever wrote this article on Assange (you?) has exactly that same talent, which I admire heartily! Congratulations.

        (I’m sorry I commented as “Anonymous,” before. I forgot to put my moniker in the little box)

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  6. Kate

    I dont thInk the tone of this article is appropriate to the seriousness of the issue

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    • Going anon here

      The tone is condescending, at least to readers who actually might be informed on the subject. Something I’ve noticed about a number of Mamamia articles that attempt to breakdown the ‘important news’ for its readers and explain it in cute soundbites.

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      • Going anon here

        I should add that I don’t think the intention was to be condescending but that’s just the way it read to me.

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  7. Seahorse

    Ummm, what about the friggin sexual assault? Since when does ANYONE get away with dodging those charges and diverting the argument to ethics about document release? Stand up and tried mofo.

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    • passing through

      Ummm, what about the friggin sexual assault?

      Let’s not forget the ‘sexual assault’ was just over Assange not wearing a condom after his saying that he would.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden

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      • Anonymous

        that too me is assault

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    • Pen

      Exactly, there are sexual assault charges to be considered. So he is all about exposing the truth as long as he controls what truths are exposed?

      Seeking asylum in Ecuador is a cowardly response to all the serious issues this man represents or participates in.

      Wiki leaks doesn’t need this man flaming the fans of his personality and ego to continue its mission. We need to be able to separate wiki from assange.

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  8. helen

    What does it mean that JA is seeking asylum under the UN Declaration of Human Rights? I understand he wants Ecuador to provide asylum but is he alleging he is being politically persecuted by a country? If so, which one?

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  9. Beatrice

    I find it very disturbing that Julian Assange has turned to Ecuador for assistance. If the man is an Australian citizen then why is our government not assisting him?

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    • Sarah Lewi

      Here here. Well unfortunately our government has always sided with the American ‘plight’. It is politics after all. Australia haven’t and wouldn’t do a anything thing to help Assange and it’s disgraceful!

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  10. Anonymous

    Must say I am very disappointed that a site aimed at women glossed over the nature of the sexual allegations Assange is facing. I think you gave it about three words in this recap.

    Truth is two separate women have made claims against this man and I would have hoped Mamamia would give that the focus it deserves, as have other leading female focused sites around the world

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    • lynnd

      Well said. It is amazing how primacy is given to the hypothetical, no-evidence extradition over the actual, evidence-for rapes he may have committed. In every single article I have read….

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    • Nicky

      You mean allegations that are not even considered a crime here or in nearly every other country?
      Allagations that the prosecutor originally dismissed?
      Allegations that the women originally denied?
      Those “allegations”????

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      • Sarah McM

        Sorry Nicky, but sex after a woman has withdrawn consent, or without consent, is a crime in just about every country. It’s called rape.

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        • meljb

          My understanding is that they did give consent and it was never withdrawn.

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          • Sally

            Let me guess, this “understanding” came from either Assange or his lawyers? Right?

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        • Nicky

          The allegations are that he tampered with a condom with one woman, who then threw a party for him the next night.
          and the other allegation is that she “awoke” to find him having sex with her and she consented to continuing.
          Neither woman has claimed that they told him to stop.
          Both women also spend time with him in the days after there sexual encounters. Not really the behavior of someone who has been “raped”
          Please do a google search and you will find pages and pages of what these allegations really amount to.
          These women should be ashamed that they have trivialized real sexual assault.

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          • Sarah McM

            If a woman has consented to sex with a condom, and the man doesn’t use one, that’s rape.

            If a woman is unconscious (whether asleep, drunk, drugged), and is not capable of consent, that’s rape.

            Here as well as, it seems, in Sweden.

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          • lynnd

            It astounds me the amount of people who cannot separate the two issues at hand : one can be a crusading whistleblower AND an offender of sexual crimes. I’m not saying he is the latter but it should follow due process in a court of law to deny these allegations. Even his own lawyer, Geoffrey Robertson, has come out saying that he should deny the allegations in Sweden. Of course, he is avoiding it due to the risk of a Grand Jury in Arlington. But this does not mean that he didn’t commit those crimes as people seem to quickly suggest here with such certainty.

            There is a certified arrest warrant for 4 charges – 1. unlawful coercion, 2 accounts of sexual molestation and 1 account of rape. I feel truly sorry for these women around the media narrative and treatment of them.

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        • Anonymous

          By their own accounts, they never withdrew consent at any stage.

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      • Sally

        Actually a man having sex with a woman while she is asleep can qualify as rape right here in my home state of NSW. There are also legal restrictions surrounding refusal to wear a condom against a woman’s wishes in most developed nations.

        I take great offence to the idea of these allegations being ridiculed from well-educated women who should know better. If women don’t stand up for each other then who on earth is going to?

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      • Lulu

        “You mean allegations that are not even considered a crime here or in nearly every other country?”

        You mean allegations which *are* considered a crime in the country in which they are being made? You mean the allegations which he is refusing to face? Yes, those.

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  11. Eva

    I dont watch the Today Show, what did Mia say?

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  12. WalTalneaCt
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  13. Nicky

    Mia and team.
    I love that you are posting news articles along with the lighter stuff, but please post stuff that has at least had some research done on it.

    Julian Assange is not wanted in Sweden on sexual assault charges. He is wanted for questioning over some allegations.
    He is not wanted in Sweden so he can be “tried”. He has not been charged with anything.
    These are pretty big mistakes to make and is in fact a vital part of the story.
    I know you are a “team” of 4 but you can’t use that as an excuse for sloppy research.
    I love this site but the standards here are slipping by the day.
    I don’t care so much about spelling mistakes etc but vital parts of a story are unforgivable.
    There is also confusion with the date of this story. People are making comments to old comments from 2010. Not many people look at the date someone made a comment that they are replying to.

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    • Anonymous

      Just about to make the same points. It’s hard to understand why he’s so afraid if you don’t understand that Sweden is behaving very strangely over someone they just want to question and who they have already questioned and decided there was nothing in it.

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      • Anonymous Again

        And I do mind the spelling mistakes.

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    • alyssakt

      Yes, the previous format was to link to the other article for readers to check out if they please – not “reload” the article and tack new info on the top, leaving former comments to confuse people…

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  14. Amandarose

    I thoughly enjoyed this article and all of them today. great mix of interesting discussion and the right mix of news and opinion.

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  15. Pingback: UPDATED: Julian Assange—Modern Day Outlaw. « The Early Bird Catches the Worm

  16. Stephanie

    Mia,

    Stick to your guns. Your opinion is a perfectly valid one and even if you think it was made ‘on the run’ I think it demonstrates a real insight into how diplomacy works and what the role of diplomats should be.

    Sure there are competing interests in this debate but I think it is so important that confidentiality is upheld within the public service (except in cases of illegality or corruption). Public servants need to be able to give frank and fearless advice for government to function properly.

    good work.

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    • Anonymous

      It’s not the opinion that people are objecting to – it’s the poor grasp of the facts.

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  17. Tali James

    “It is a very lonely life that a man leads, who becomes aware of truths before their times.” Thomas Brackett Reed (American Politician, 1839-1902)

    Mr Reed, your wise words sum up this situation perfectly.

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  18. JimmmyMick

    Mia, I just saw your opinion spot on the Today Show re Assange, and I think you chose your words poorly. Very poorly.

    Did the Daily Mail article you read go into the details about the political nature of the charges? Or that the evidence from the complainers is tainted? Or that the complainers are suspected of having links to the CIA? Or that the complainers contacted Sweden’s most notorious tabloid *before* the event?

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/swedens-justice-system-may-become-a-laughing-stock-over-the-rape-charges-against-wikileaks-figurehead-julian-assange/story-e6freon6-1225965652205

    http://is.gd/impOV is another piece from Assange’s lawyer about this.

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  19. Emma in Melbourne-land

    i love how no-one, including our PM, can say exactly what laws Assange/wikileaks have actually broken…. the rape charge is so trumped up and indicative of desperation to get him on something. as far as i can tell from having followed this story, wikileaks has done no real damage other than revealing how juvenile some politicians can be, and also the personal feelings of some countries about other countries/diplomats etc. in a way i can see the benefit of wikileaks showing the world what goes on behind closed doors and allowing more transparency than the PR generated content governments deliver us, but on the other hand i can see why these things should remain private. i don’t pretend to be an expert, i’m definitely not, but this is my opinion.

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  20. Bowerbird

    I feel quite outraged by governments’ (and mainstream media) treatment of this issue.

    When an employee blows the whistle on corrupt or inappropriate corporate behaviour, they are generally (albeit not unanimously) regarded with some respect and gratitude. *They are specifically and explicitly protected by legislation*. It seems there is a point between corporations and high level government at which players think they are should be above scrutiny and accountability. I wonder exactly where that point is?

    And Wikileaks isn’t even the whistleblower. Its the organisation reporting the information whistleblowers have provided to it. And Assange isn’t the whole of Wikileaks, he’s just the front-man.

    Yet governments’ seem prepared to abandon due process and the rights of citizens – all those values and principles Western democracy is supposed to stand for. If they had any real confidence and integrity, and any respect for the citizens they represent, they would address the substance of the leaks with the varying levels of attention it warrants.

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    • Andy Girl

      Well said! I understand the complexity of this regarding the transparency vs employing ethical discretion (i.e – should all sensitive documents be leaked regardless of their sensitive content) but I agree that many Western governments believe themselves to be above the tenets of democracy that they so feverishly advocate for everyone else!

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  21. Joanna

    I don’t care if Julian Assange is an ego maniac or not, it’s irrelevant. He does not run Wikileaks by himself, he’s the representative of an organization made up of many people
    There is too much focus, especially from the conservative press on the messenger, and not enough on the message.
    There is plenty of actual ‘whistle-blowing’ in this latest reveal, that deserves more attention than the personal life of Assange, like the fact the the U.S supported the military coup in Honduras, or that the U.S is spying illegally at the U.N, or that the U.S continues to support Saudi Arabia when clearly they are the ones funding much of the Islamic extremism in the world etc. The list of offenses goes on…..
    The rape charge against Assange is clearly trumped up as it was already dismissed in Sweden by a senior prosecutor. The fact that the case has been resurrected in another city smacks of political motivation.
    America has already said that the latest Wikileaks will not hurt their diplomatic relations with the world significantly, and even Kevin Rudd said that there is nothing in what he said about China, that China didn’t know already.
    And regarding the claim that The Wikileaks endanger lives, there is no evidence supporting this. It’s the mantra intoned by all organizations exposed by whistle-blowers.
    As Assange says himself,”The truth must come first”.
    I personally, am very pleased something like Wikileaks exists because virtually no other organization in the world has the power (or the balls) to hold governments and big business accountable.

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    • Carolyn

      I agree with you, I daresay Assange was chosen as spokesperson as he has so far displayed the nerve necessary to take on the US govt.
      This is a law professors blog that is examining the way in which the authorities are attempting to shut Wikileaks down:

      http://opiniojuris.org/2010/12/07/the-many-fronts-of-the-first-infowar/

      I have no doubt that the women who have charged him with “sex by surprise” for not wearing a condom in one instance and the condom breaking in another have been pressured by someone to bring these charges to court. The timing is far too convenient.

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      • Joanna

        Thanks for posting the article. Interesting stuff.
        Julian Assange really does seem to have a lot of nerve. I was just watching a BBC interview with him after the leaks in July and even though the interviewer was quite antagonistic, he was so calm and composed, and apart from the basic truth in what he was saying, his togetherness made him utterly convincing. There is no bluster or sensationalism about him. He chooses his words carefully, explains his position in the simplest terms, which makes him for me, the perfect mouth piece for what he supposedly represents; basic truth.

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    • kate

      I agree with you 100%
      it is so great that someone has the balls to do it and prove to the masses what really goes on that we are never told about.
      and you are right about the timing. and if they actually wanted wikileaks they should be going after the company as a whole not the messenger.

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  22. Rusty Rouge

    Quite disappointed with the quality of this post, but I am glad to have read it. It has reminded me of the dangers of forming (and spouting) opinions on complex issues without doing some research first.

    Whatever your opinion of Julian Assange, and however it can be formed from the distorted slant of the media, it does not nullify the significance of many of the US cables released through Wikileaks.

    Far from petty gossip, they have provided some pretty hard evidence of how the US government operates, unchecked. It may be naive, but I believe that holding governments accountable for their actions is rather essential to a democracy! Any organisation that abuses international human rights and then attempts to cover up their crimes deserves to be outed. Condemned.

    Edmund Burke put it best – “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

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  23. Tali James

    Julian Assange has just been arrested in Britain –

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1435446/Assange-arrested-by-London-police

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    • kate

      your link is from 2010….

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      • alyssakt

        The comment is from 2010 :D

        (They’ve tacked more info to the top of the old cheat sheet)

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        • kate

          i just noticed. half of the comments are from 2010.. very confusing.

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  24. Rob Mueller

    If you haven’t done anything wrong or stupid then you have nothing to fear from Wikileaks….

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  25. Emma

    It seems that a lot of people on this site are expecting Mia’s opinion to align entirely with theirs. And therefore, by not being the same, they are somehow wrong.
    Newsflash people: THERE ARE DIFFERENT F*****G OPINIONS!!!!
    Are we that immature and juvenile that we cannot accept someone else’s opinion (or at least acknowledge their right to it), particularly on an issue which we know relatively little about? Does it really matter if some of the information was/is incorrect? This is the kind of media story that will develop over time, with more changes. Are you all going to crucify all media outlet, or just Mia?

    For the record, I do not agree with Mia’s conclusions. Though I can see where she’s coming from and can respect that. There are so many nuanced views that will be held on this issue. This is not black and white, and its time people on this site (and not just this post) woke up to the reality that life is full of grey areas.

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    • Lulu

      “therefore, by not being the same, they are somehow wrong”

      I know! And I think it’s been more than ironic than some people who are very protective of free ‘speech’ by Wikileaks are very very critical of Mia for … merely stating her opinion on Wikileaks.

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    • Stacey

      Having a difference of opinion is one thing. Basing your opinion on incorrect facts is entirely another.

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      • Anonymous

        I don’t think the ‘facts’ for either side are being made clear there’s a lot of conflicting reports and right now it’s really all opinion

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  26. Jane Tribune

    Anyone who may read this post and think Mia is right should consider this http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding

    We are sending australian soldiers to Afganistan on the basis that it presents a danger to the world. In fact, as we now know from wikileaks, most terrorism funding comes from our allies in Saudi Arabia. This fact was hidden because the US wants to protect its interests there. This is not gossip, and more lives are endangered by covering it up than by allowing the information to be public.

    One final point: our prime minister has stood on the steps of parliament and suggested that an Australian citizen who has committed no crime, may not be welcome back to his country. Doesnt anyone find that disturbing, regardless of their opinion of Assange and wikileaks?

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    • Carolyn

      You’re right, many people find this disturbing:
      http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41914.html

      I hope this is not Julia Gillard’s David Hicks.

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      • Me

        Thank you for sharing this link. I have added my name. No matter what one thinks of Wikileaks JA should be entitled to Australia’s protection unless it is found that he has done something illegal – which so far has not been able to be demonstrated.

        Julia Guillard’s comments make me absolutely sick to my stomach.

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        • Chicken

          Yes Me – I agree, but I would add that even if he has done something illegal he’s an Australian citizen and has rights that should be upheld. We don’t take away people’s citizenship and human rights when they break a law. Or at least we shouldn’t!!

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          • Me

            I agree with you Chicken!!

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      • Chicken

        3260 people and counting have added their names to this open letter to Julia Gillard.

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    • MissEx

      I find it disturbing that calls have been made to execute Assange.

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      • Me

        Yes, especially from people right up there in US politics.

        It feels almost like some global dictatorship, the way they are carrying on and people like Julia Gillard making totally inappropriate comments suggesting that Australia will not ensure Mr Assange receives his entitled rights and protections.

        It is very disappointing and very scary.

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      • Carly

        Also the fact that is family has been threatened too in Australia which is very disturbing. It was a total media circus when he went to court, the case is messed up. I hope it is resolved properly.

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    • Bowerbird

      Completely agree, Jane Tribune. I am bitterly disappointed (again) in the government’s response – and, oh look, its even a different colour this time, but still playing the same old fear card.

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    • Lulu

      “as we now know from wikileaks”

      Anyone who has only *now* discovered this, has not been paying attention for the past 9 years or so.

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  27. Me

    Go here http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2028734,00.html

    to vote for Julian Assange as Time magazine’s person of the year… right now he is #1 !

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  28. Me

    Hi Mia,

    Thanks for posting the extra links.

    I also hope you get a chance to read them and better educate yourself on Wikileaks.

    It will be very interesting to see what other info is released by WL over the coming weeks.

    Regards,
    Jo

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  29. Chewy

    Also can I please add that updating the post with changes to the copy does not seem to fit with the high level of transparency you promote on here.
    For issues like this I think it shows more respect for your readers to keep the original text and add a retraction or qualifying comment to the post.
    FYI – I know my posts may come across snarky, but that is not my intent. I do enjoy this site and think it is a great resource to many, but also see the great power it has over people which means every post needs to be well researched and thought out.

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    • Chewy

      Since my comment, you have posted your update above including links to other sources. Thankyou.

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    • Mia

      Chewy – I added some links, crossed out some incorrect information and added one extra word to clarify a point.

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  30. Carly

    Also thank you for removing that poll, I thought it was rather innappropriate to suggest Julian Assange is a wacko or some other negative term. None of us know him personally, so how would you even know anyway? I would never make such assumptions about anyone.

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    • Me

      Yes, I thought the poll was offensive as well, especially in light of what is going on now…

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  31. Chewy

    This post is a worry.
    A few weeks ago I defended Mia when commentators disagreed with her using the term ‘journalist’ to describe herself.
    However Mia even you must admit that a post like this is lowering the standards of journalism, if it can be called that.
    You completely have a right to voice your opinion here, that’s what your readers want and you often do it well.
    However you really should have offered a balanced argument and interviewed a number of sources before tackling such a broad and sensitive topic.
    No you are not ‘The Economist’ or ‘The New York Times’ but by adding the tagline ‘journalist’ to your resume you have a responsibility to your readers to provide accurate information.

    It is obvious that many of your readers rely on you as their lifeline to the real world. If you and your team don’t have the time to thoroughly research topics like this please don’t post them.

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    • Polly

      Perhaps Mia should do an ask Mia video explaining what makes her a journo as so many people believe she is not a real one..

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      • Ashleigh taylor

        Writters at the hearld sun and the Australia also call themselves journalists….
        There is nothing not factual, it’s explaining the situation. Just because everything else demonises him, dosent mean that is a higher standard of journalism

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  32. Zoe

    I think the issue is too broad and cloaked in too many issues, arguments and counter-arguments to click one of those four options. I agree that it’s causing massive problems that could be avoided, and I think so many things can be taken out of context when they were never intended for public consumption (the personal email argument, for example…I cringe to think!). However, governments get away with far too much in the name of “security” and so forth, it’s fantastic that there are people out there committed to forcing them into some degree of accountability.

    Hard for me to jump off the fence on this one because I can see both sides.

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  33. Mala

    Thank you for posting this – it’s just what I’ve been looking for!

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  34. MadisonC

    wheres a julie cowdry cheat sheet when we need one?!

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    • Mia

      Good question, have put in a call….

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  35. Anonymous

    I also have misgivings about the release of these cables but I’m willing to keep reading and thinking about it. But why attack Mia? She is entitled to have an opinion w/o being an expert. Imagine if yr work colleague at the water cooler voiced his thoughts – hardly think youwould say such things to their face. Acp guy – you guys always bring up motherhood when u want to be patronizing and dismissive. Mias blog is many things including forum on motherhood. Also noble profession, like journalism.

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    • MissEx

      god I hate it when people say things like “but why attack mia” like mia needs defending. Crikey, she is a big girl now who likes to get a juicy discussion going whether she is right or wrong. Please, let people say what they want and let mia respond/deny/defend for herself. That’s what makes this site worth visiting, people speaking for themselves.

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      • Mia

        Agree. Always like people to speak for themselves. Even those who disagree with attacks.

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  36. Savvy

    A colleague forwarded me a link to your blog this morning Mia. There’s quite a bit of amusement in media circles about this piece you’ve written. Not quite sure where to start but this paragraph is certainly a stand out:
    “None of the content of the 250,000 cables has been particularly significant on a global or political scale. Mostly, it’s been gossip. And like gossip at any level, it has the potential to do massive damage to relationships.”
    Where does one start to respond to that comment? I see others have picked you up on the inaccuracy, ignorance and naivety of that statement so I shall leave it to the likes of “Juzzy” and “Contributor” to point out its flaws.
    “Mia says: December 6, 2010 at 4:54 pm I agree. I always question the motives of someone who says “I just thought you should know…” and then tells you that someone else has been horrible about you.” Seriously Mia, is this the conclusion you have reached about the issue having “read and read and read” the background?
    I think perhaps you should stick to discussions more in keeping with your expertise, you know, like motherhood and fashion and cupcakes shaped like vaginas.
    Mind you, we have all had a good laugh here in the ACP office this morning so we thank you for that at least.

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    • Chicken

      No way – Mia should certainly include posts like this. I’m not commenting on the journalistic rigour or lack of it, but this has gotten discussion going and the issue exposed to an audience that maybe is not reading your papers.

      Besides – as has already been pointed out below – most Australian papers are full of stories about motherhood, fashion and cupcakes shaped like vaginas.

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    • Lulu

      Such journalistic courage & integrity – behind a fake name.

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      • Savvy

        Actually Lulu, my name is Savannah. People call me Savvy. I didn’t realise we had to use our full name if we wish to comment. You haven’t used your full name either I notice. I am also not commenting as a journalist but as a reader. Cheers.

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        • Lulu

          “There’s quite a bit of amusement in media circles about this piece you’ve written”

          “we have all had a good laugh here in the ACP office this morning”

          No, not commenting as a journalist, not bolstering your credibility by comments like this, nothing at all.

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          • MadisonC

            what journalism exists in the ACP is more what i’m wondering?! (please don’t credit the Womans Weekly). Or Cosmo

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    • An Idle Dad

      Savvy,
      As much as I disagree with Mia’s comments, I was wondering if you can you point me to the detailed analysis of Wikileaks in the SMH? The kind like http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/the-us-embassy-cables or http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/statessecrets.html?hp?

      Mia has so much power and can reach such an odd conclusion because you guys are so pathetic.

      Journos, good for a story over a beer, not much else.

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    • Me

      Hmmm resorting to bitchiness to get your point across…

      Makes you and all those other media people you mentioned look really lame.

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      • Rose (www.the-budding-rose.blogspot.com)

        Agree!

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    • Simone

      savvy, you seem to hold such an important position to criticise Mia for incompetent reporting, aren’t you, as a member of the ACP meant to be working right now..?

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    • Carly

      Hah. I agree.

      I was expecting this article would have a little bit more depth, you know less bias. I’ve known about this organisation since may, if you watch SBS and ABC you would have had a firm grasp on what this organisation actually does and why it is actually is a good thing. People who want to know what is really going on pay attention to this type of information they release. Anyway due to hackers over the past few days, most of your information is now incorrect: url and where it is based. Also I think you’re trying to depict Julian Assange as a creepy menace- You don’t even have to say much just post a terrible old picture of him. He had a hair change, did you know? Several. More than a woman.

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    • Zoe

      Ouch! Savvy I completely agree that there is more to say on this topic than what’s been covered here, but you sound like a jealous child – “We all had a good laugh here in the ACP office here this morning” – not nice. And you’ve managed to throw in that you work at ACP, subtle. Since the ACP is known for its absolute integrity and infallible journalists, you’ve all earned the right to have a giggle at the expense of less “refined” journalists, right?

      I’d prefer to take advice from a hardworking mother, fashionista and cupcake aficionado than a snarky someone from “media circles” any day.

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    • FrenchRuby

      Savvy: Your comment was pure attack and no substance. Where did you think it would get you?

      This is not where I come to get detailed news and cutting edge journalism. This is where I come to be part of a community of people with opinions, questions and (for the most part) good humour.

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    • amandarose

      What a condescending rude comment. Everyone has a right to a point of view. Not everyone can fully grasp complexities of current affairs or want´s to for that matter. I like a simplified explanation on here or I may just switch off from the issue all together. It sometimes sparks my interest so I do read more and grasp the issue correctly.
      so don´t be so condescending and stuck up and rude.

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    • Mia

      Savvy,
      Laughs at ACP? Anything I can do to help promote that is my absolute pleasure. Enjoy.

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    • Bec Sparrow

      Savvy, constructive criticism is one thing but your comment is just plain bitchy and smug in tone. A robust discussion has begun on this site which is a great thing. Mia has made changes to her original post. She’s fully aware that she’s not perfect. And I don’t expect her to be. And for the record, MM readers don’t blindly worship at the altar of Mia Freedman. We disagree with Mia and one another. We cheer each other on. And we debate everything from Wikileaks to yes, vagina shaped cupcakes. Next time you’re desperate for a laugh, I suggest RIcky Gervais’ Extras (season one).

      And let me say this … to ridicule this blog and what Mia does is an insult to the hundreds of thousands of women who come here. For the record, my daughter died three months ago and the women on this site – none of whom I know — offered me support and friendship and kindness at a time when I couldn’t face the world. That’s what this site does.

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    • Bowerbird

      They’re laughing at ACP? In their brief recess from all the serious in-depth analysis they are doing. Presumably.

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  37. FrenchRuby

    The volume of the leak is mind-boggling. I only know what I read in the news. From what I have read, I can’t say I agree with the decision (by whomever made it) to leak such a vast quantity of US State Department cables. I also think it is a very odd way of blowing the whistle… on what exactly? Everything? Secrecy? The fact that the U.S. Government discusses foreign nations? I feel like I am missing the point.

    I wonder how we would all feel if a similar leak occurred at the hands of an Australian.

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  38. Gig

    Is it the opinion of the Left that the US and allies should remain pristine and angelic in their conduct in war zones, yet should completely ignore the other side of the story; the other side of events, the other side of combat in a war zone? From your safe and secure homes in the suburbs or the inner city it is easy to second guess the behaviour of the military in the thick of a combat zone.

    If the Left is so concerned about human rights, perhaps they should step across the fence and play hard-ball with the other side. Demonising our governments while saying and doing nothing about the forces opposing our soldiers is disingenuous.

    Regurgitating the leftist litany of castigating western soldiers in the Vietnam war, while denying any wrong-doing on the other side seriously erodes the believability of your cause today. Assange and cohorts are like naughty schoolboys flaunting a teacher’s dirty washing. It isn’t helpful. It hasn’t shown to be helpful. It hasn’t done anything other than annoy those in power.

    There needs to be a better way.

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    • Chicken

      Left, right? I think this is really a matter of truth, and it does pose the question how much transparency there should be, but surely it’s not about political persuasion. The “left” can hide as much as the ‘right”.

      I also think in regards to international conflict the argument “well they’re doing it so why can’t we” is kind of weak.

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    • An Idle Dad

      Gig,
      Firstly, I’d point out that most of the left (nay, the majority of Australians both left and right) didn’t want to invade countries of tyrants we installed in the first place. This is because of one simply fact: We are not the world police.

      But if we ARE going to invade and act like the world’s police force, then we need to conduct ourselves with standards that are better than the other guy’s and follow our own laws. The principle of democratic justice is everyone is equal before the law: the rich, the poor, the powerful, the minority.

      The left are not opposed to addressing threats to Western Civilisation. But here’s the thing, neither Afganistan or Iraq were threats. The decisions to invade were simply grand standing.

      And look at the results. We haven’t really succeeded in crushing the opposition, have we? Your brave, brave diplomats are now negotiating with the Taliban. With terrorists.

      War requires crushing. I know the game Risk makes world domination seem super easy and bloodless, but it isn’t. It requires massacres and genocide and disproportional responses to win. And THAT’s why the West shouldn’t fight offensive wars. We can’t do that stuff. Therefore we can’t win.

      Perhaps you should consider that from your comfortable outer suburb while shifting green toy soliders across your Penguin Edition World Atlas.

      Secondly, what Wikileaks have exposed is no different to exposing police corruption in Australia. But instead of cops taking a dollar & a free ride from some hookers to turn a blind eye, hundreds of thousands of people have died.

      If you want to call out big talking hypocrites, please ask a politician why Iran and North Korea aren’t worthy of invasion. They tick ALL the boxes – weapons of mass destruction, oppressive anti-west regiemes and a history of non-compliance with the the UN. Yet no action? Could it be it would take real sacrifice? Could it be there would be more funerals per day than Julia & Tony could show up to?

      Lastly, which soliders have been castigated? I support the troops. I don’t want them to die. If they can win, have at it! But, I return to my first point – they can’t.

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      • Bowerbird

        *applause*

        And anyway, who is “the left”? I haven’t seen anyone commenting under that name. Although its a good one…….

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      • rudyroo

        I LOVE that you brought the game RISK into this.

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  39. AT

    Is it hypocritical of the US to be crying foul over Wikileaks when it was complicit in revealing the identity of a CIA operative – Valerie Plame?

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  40. Gig

    Is there a wikileaks that hacks into government files from Iran, China, North Korea or is just for going after the US & British governments?

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    • juzzy

      um, yeah, it was started by Chinese dissidents.
      Why don’t you go have a look at it?

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      • Gig

        Yes, Chinese dissidents. Why aren’t we hearing about other nations’ bad behaviour? It seems Assange and cohorts are more interested in bringing disrepute to the US government than actually monitoring governments worldwide. It seems they enjoy living within the safety of the Western political system, while sniping at the hand that feeds them.

        Yes, we need whistleblowers, but not grandstanding publicity seeking quasi-anarchists like Julian Assange, who at the first sign of opposition runs home and demands to know why his country won’t support him!

        Give me a break. We need whistleblowers, but this guy is two steps removed from that misguided ideologically unhinged wanna-be traitor, David Hicks.

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        • Theresa

          That is a superficial assessment of what you might have gleaned from Australian news. Before you fix your opinion, it wouldn’t hurt to try and get a better picture of what is happening. If not you should consider whether you should speak so strongly about subject you don’t have a lot of information about.

          I like strong opinions but they should be well informed.

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          • Gig

            Having said that, Theresa, then could you state a more informed opinion, rather than denigrating mine and simply walking away.

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            • Theresa

              My opinion is that you haven’t used any facts, just personal opinion.

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        • juzzy

          @gig
          Um, where to start, knowing that I’m probably going to regret arguing with you….

          wikileaks doesn’t find the documents, they publish what they’re given, after checking it.

          They’re not a “monitoring” agency, they’re a safe site for whistleblowers to drop info, and if you took some time out from screaming irrationally, you could go through wikileaks and look at some of the thousands of documents they’ve released from all over the world.

          “demands to know why his country won’t support him!” Gee, I dunno, he’s an Australian citizen… our government regularly, rightly, does what it can to help Australians in trouble overseas – drug couriers in Asia, drunken backpackers all over Europe etc etc etc.

          I enjoy living in the safety of a Western democracy, and yes, I snipe at the “hand that feeds” me, if that’s how you like to think of a government. It’s every person’s right to speak up, even if ill-informed people like you don’t like them or what they have to say.

          The David Hicks comment sums up your lack of argument perfectly.

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          • Gig

            Theresa and juzzy, can you answer my initial question? Why the focus on our governments and not the greater injustices that are being committed everyday throughout the world? I have yet to hear the Left criticise any regime who opposes the West.

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            • Theresa

              Why don’t they focus on greater injustices? Wikileaks publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct. That is what they do. It is summarized above.

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            • Chicken

              So Gig – they only can publish what they receive. They’re not soliciting from any particular country. They received a huge leak from the US so that’s what’s been published.

              I really don’t think they’re pro-China or anyone else. Is that what you’re suggesting? I have tried to get to the wikileaks site to see what other leaks there are but no luck today.

              I really find that a strange comment about the Left not criticising any regime who opposes the West. Who do you consider to be Left? Can you explain?

              Organisations such as Amnesty International are often accused of being “left” but a large amount of the work they do involves criticising regimes that oppose the “West” if they are abusing human rights.

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    • Darcy Moran

      Hullo Gig,
      Respectfully, Wikileaks isn’t a hacking organisation — they rely on whistle-blowers feeding them info., so I don’t think they’re targeting the US and UK per se (I may be wrong), they’re just releasing some of the infomation that is passed on to them.

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      • Gig

        Yes, I was overplaying it there. It’s not a hacking org, but, also isn’t merely a drop-box. Do not be so naive.

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        • Darcy Moran

          Naive? That’s a refreshing accusation! If I’m naive by the standards of the Mama Mia boards then you lot must be as jaded as the Emperor’s tomb…

          I wasn’t aware that you were being hyperbolic so I took the time to address what appeared to be a misreading of the site’s essential characteristic.

          The fact is that they do rely on whistle blowers as, regardless of anything else, they wouldn’t recieve enough infomation without them. That isn’t to say they’re merely a drop-box, which is why I didn’t say it.

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          • Gig

            Well we agree, they’re not merely a drop-box.

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  41. Nora

    Wow. Can not believe so many people support WikiLeaks. I think obtaining stolen classified files and releasing them for the world to see is extremely menacing. That’s crossing a line beyond freedom of speech.

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    • Jane Tribune

      More menacing than being able to cover up stories like Juzzy’s below? NO! I’ll take a few international hissy fits any day over that.

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    • juzzy

      In what way is it menacing, and in what way is it crossing a line?
      Have you read any of the released documents and the stories behind them?

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      • Nora

        Apart from what you posted below, nope haven’t read any and do not plan too. Nothing released on WikiLeaks would suprise me. Menacing because I see Assange as a troublesome and annoying person and crossing the line by possibly endangering the lives of others.

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        • juzzy

          If you’re not going to read any of it, then how, HOW do you feel entitled to have an opinion on it?
          *facepalm

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          • Nora

            Well you may notice that my opinion isn’t very in depth for that reason. I’m not interested in reading it that doesn’t exclude me from being entitled to have an opinion. What will I gain from reading it?

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            • AT

              Well what’s the point of joining a discussion about a topic if your only input is to say you’re not interested in it?

              What will you add to the debate by this?

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            • Nora

              I am interested in this topic, just not in reading stolen information. The question was raised by Mia do we think it’s a good or bad thing, I think bad, it’s a simple as that.

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  42. juzzy

    I know I said I’d unsubscribe, but I’ve been reading a lot of the comments here saying that Assange has done the wrong thing, and governments need to do things in secret for all our benefit. I’ll take this opportunity to give some detail on just ONE of the cables that’s been leaked so far.
    @nick below refers to it:

    (2) the State Department threatened Germany not to criminally investigate the CIA’s kidnapping of one of its citizens who turned out to be completely innocent;

    Here’s the story in brief (I can’t recall the exact countries involved, but it’s in Europe):
    A German citizen of mid-eastern extraction is on holiday in another country with his wife. They have a big fight, and he gets in the car and goes for a long drive. Ends up crossing the border in the middle of the night.
    When attempting to cross back, he’s stopped and his passport is checked. There’s a CIA flag on an alleged terrorist with a *similar* name. He’s arrested and held for days, until the CIA arrive.
    They put a bag on his head and do that special extradition thing, where he’s flown to a country (I think Egypt) where he can be legally tortured. And he’s tortured, for about 3 months or so. His wife knows nothing; he disappeared, no one can tell her anything.
    Eventually they realise they’ve got the wrong guy. So they fly him back to the country he’d been in (not his own country, you know, Germany), with nothing. He eventually finds a way to contact his wife and children, and he gets home.
    This guy is me. He’s nobody. He’s been kidnapped and tortured, and he wants some justice. The US is kind of embarrassed by this sort of thing. So they tell Germany No.
    That’s what that cable’s about.
    Not trivial.
    Not troublemaking.
    Not Assange grandstanding.
    Truth. Horrible, horrible truth.
    This is what governments do when we let them.
    This is why we need wikileaks.
    This is why people who think wikileaks is doing the wrong thing should read a little more before going in to bat for all those poor hard-working diplomats and governments.

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    • Chicken

      My God – that’s just awful! I just Googled this – the poor man was dumped in Albania.

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    • An Idle Dad

      And that is why you shouldn’t unsubscribe. Engage your opponents with respect.

      It’s a winner.

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      • juzzy

        and never get into a land war in asia.

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    • amandarose

      Now that is a simple explanation I can grasp. Thankyou. More please or a link to some more easy to grasp concise examples like this.
      I can see why this type of information can be useful.

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      • Emma

        Try reading the ‘About’ page of the Wikileaks site itself http://wikileaks.ch/about.html Gives a thorough explanation (please don’t rely on Mamamia’s inaccurate and incomplete portrayal of their work) of why they do what they do and their record of revealing corruption and lies since their creation.

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    • sarah

      Thanks for staying around Juzzy!!

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  43. An Idle Dad

    At least your consistent Mia! You don’t like freedom of speech when it comes from the right, and now you are against it when it comes from the left. I can accept a principled stance even when I disagree, as do the majority of your readers below.

    Wikileaks is exactly why freedom of speech is essential. I’ve moved from a supporter of the “idea” of Wikileaks to an out-and-out supporter this week. The attacks on him are insane and embarrassing.

    Hillary Clinton has broken the law. Assange has broken none.

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    • Poppy

      Why are they insane and embarrassing? I would consider myself a little-l liberal and am in favour of freedom of speech but I think that this issue goes beyond that. Often diplomatic relations involve issues far more complex and more sensitive than the majority of the population realises and governments need to be able to communicate internally and with other governments in confidence to get things done effectively. Without such protection, countries simply won’t participate in the global community. There are also significant problems associated with revealing information about undercover agents in the press – that kind of information deserves to be protected.

      What Clinton has done may be against a law (which one?) and it’s certainly an embarrassment but you’re kidding yourself if you think this kind of thing doesn’t happen often. And I’m not sure but I would think that Assange has broken some laws given that he’s released classified material. Besides, don’t forget the fact that he’s facing criminal changes in Sweden…

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      • juzzy

        @AnIdleDad:
        Too right, brother.
        @poppy:
        you were making a half-way decent point there, until you mentioned the “criminal charges in Sweden.” You know what they’re for (the second time around, police having dropped them, but the so-called investigation being reopened on demand of a politician)???
        Having consensual sex without a condom. Not rape or sexual assault. And the interpol flag is for Questioning (which he offered to do before the charges were dropped the first time around).
        Insane and embarrassing? I’m glad you asked. Being, in effect, a journalist, he’s published classified material which was illegally released to him by *someone else*. Which is what journalists have been doing since the trade began. Someone once said “Journalism is something that someone doesn’t want known. The rest is just advertising.”
        Everyone knows he hasn’t actually broken any laws, so some US Senators are now talking about enacting *retrospective* laws, so they’ll have something to charge him with. That’s pretty insane and embarrassing.

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        • An Idle Dad

          Juzzy, the revolution was about to occur, but got delayed because of rain. And the bus was late. And Jack Johnson is playing this week in the domain.

          Next week fo sho.

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      • An Idle Dad

        I hold my standards against Western Democratic standards. Hillary Clinton directly ordered espionage against the UN. Espionage is against the law in every country. Illegal activity is always in the public interest. For this memo alone, Assange is a brave man.

        You “think” Assange has broken some laws? Neither our PM or AG have been able to specify what law he may have broken. The US also has not been able to identify one. The Canadian PM suggested Assange, an Australian citizen, be assassinated. Do you agree?

        Amazon stopped hosting Wikileaks at the behest of Homeland Security. In the land of the free! No less than one week after using Freedom of Speech to defend selling a book that trained pedophiles to groom children.

        Please, try less hypocrisy.

        Please show me the documents exposing secret agents. I’m happy to acknowledge that sensitivity be shown in this area. But I’m yet to see any evidence of it occurring. And lets not forget the US was aware for months that Wikileaks was going to release the material.

        As for letting governments talk in private, have a look at Nick’s comment below on some of the things uncovered. Turning a blind eye to torture? Threatening the German government? Rudd suggesting war against China? These are good government actions in your book?

        Assange has thrown a light on the hypocrisy of the US and our own government’s foreign policy. The information makes for informed citizenry debate (and from the look of the cables, a lot of the citizenry debate is at a higher standard than our own diplomats).

        You may call for a bit of shush while our ‘betters’ talk and trade lives among themselves. I call for plain talk.

        The only consistency here is Mia – she’s always been in favour of restricting freedom of speech (for reasons of her own) and has never been shy of expressing it. I respectably disagree.

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  44. Theresa

    Your assessment of diplomacy, international relations and whistleblowers is very superficial and this post was a light as air treatment of such a complex situation.

    I think the person most in danger from the release of these document is Mr Assange himself. I hope he is able to protect himself because it doesn’t look like the Australian government is ever going to protect this citizen from the ire of the US and other nations.

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  45. juzzy

    Mia,
    You really should be embarrassed. This post shows a lack of research and intelligence that is simply breathtaking. I’m NOT bagging you because I disagree with you, but because, if this is the best you can come up with when you’ve “read and read” and “thought about it”, this site is no longer worth my time.
    “None of the content of the 250,000 cables has been particularly significant on a global or political scale. Mostly, it’s been gossip.”
    1) Only a few hundred have been released so far.
    2) That bit where the US Sec of State orders diplomats to spy on other diplomats was pretty significant.
    Yes, I know it’s just your OPINION, but an opinion really should be based on more than “I reckon”.
    *unsubscribe*

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    • Me

      I agree with a lot of these points, except I still love Mia’s blog/site, I just think she would be better off sticking to what she – and/or her team – knows if she/they don’t have time to do some proper research.

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      • Apples

        I agree with these kind of comments kind of, but do want to point out at least Mia had an opinion on the topic. If she didn’t say what she thought she would again be accused of holding back. Can’t win either way. I would rather hear Mia’s thoughts, which is why I visit the site, than not even if I disagree which on this one I do. More research could have been done but you can’t know everything about every post.

        Cheat sheets are great but anyone relying completely on a site like MM for their political analysis is just plain silly it’s not supposed to be that type of site (similarly i don’t expect my gossip fix to be met by The Guardian) , it’s just a jumping off point if you are truly interested. People should have the ability to assess where they get their info from and whose opinion they take on board.

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        • juzzy

          @apples:
          If one doesn’t know anything about a subject, far better to say “I don’t know anything about it, but here are a dozen or so links to some people who do as a starting point”…
          I don’t think it’s valid to say “at least Mia had an opinion”. An opinion (yes, including mine) is of little enough value anyway, but when it’s based on nothing or misinformation, it becomes dangerous.

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    • Christie

      Juzzy, thank you so much, you have expressed in this post what I have considered all night.

      You are right, I will no longer visit this site myself, and it is a terrible state of affairs when a writer and blogger a “woman of our generation” can write the most ridiculous statements. You have already noted some of them, however, one that enraged me the most was “None of the content of the 250,000 cables has been particularly significant on a global or political scale. Mostly, it’s been gossip.” How can you actually say this is:
      a) Insignificant, when you have not read them and;
      b) Current media has not even dissected them;
      c) Not all have been released, as Juzzy says; only a few hundred have been.

      I am also not overly surprised at the lack of intelligence that has ensued from some of the regular writers and to be frank, I am embarrassed to be a one time fan of this site, I had to actually question my own rational thought processes after what I read.

      I also wonder what some of these contributors have “read and read and read” for Christs sakes!

      The copy and paste from Wikileaks, C’MON! Just reference the site, that’s all you had to do.

      This is such a complex debate and one where I prefer to utilise my energy in a slightly more deserving forum. To bag Assange as the only contributor of Wiki is to state that Barack Obama controls the entire process of Government in the United States. Maybe not the best analogy but why only attack the messenger? Oh and the so called sex abuse charges read nothing more than a witch hunt and before anyone can debate this, go and read further resources other than ”Herald Sun” and oh “Zoo Weekly.”

      Though I wanted to have my say, I choose to unsubscribe, why waste energy on a site like this?

      Mia, stick to children, fluffy stuff etc, all we need is another over excited under informed “journo/blogger/opinion writer” on such complex topics such as Wikileaks and their drive to transparency.

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  46. Me

    Hey Mia, I think you need another option on your survey-

    - I think wikileaks is important but their decision making process on what should be published may need to be revised slightly)

    I also think that you are way out of your depth on this post. It might be worth checking out The Guardian and the International Herald Tribune as a starting point for more balanced reporting on the Cablegate leaks than what the majority of Australian media is reporting on (and which you seem to have been sucked in by somewhat).

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  47. nonametoday

    He is an attention seeking trouble making idiot. He thinks nothing of the work others have done to make changes in government and lets down those who seek to work from within. He has made no long term difference thus far, and frankly seems a little bit in love with himself, and he seems to have very romantic opinion of the work he does.

    Mr Assange needs to focus the very obsessive energy he has on ways that will make a difference, rather than sensational lists of names and deeds.

    I personally know quite a few people who do marvellous governmental work for this country, and the media are the last to know what is really going on. Mostly because if it is not sensational in nature they are not interested, and if it is too normal and boring, then they will just make it up anyway. Even though JA thinks he is this liberator of information, to me he is just another sleazy journo making something of nothing, this is just a new format. Great.

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    • Christie

      Oh dear, someone who cannot separate the message from the messenger? What do you know about Julian Assange? Have you read the cables? A sleazy journo making something of nothing? One day, an ignoramous like yourself may just thanking him for telling the world, of the ill wills our Governments have no issue subjecting us too, and the lies we accept day to day for the reasons we fight day to day, and for what reason?

      When will people like you realise, the Government is there for the people, who are the sleazebags then?

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  48. fi

    I have been reading everything that I can put my hands on recently regarding this and there are a few things that I just can’t stop thinking about
    1. why is all the attention on Julian Assange. I get that he has put himself out there as a public figure but surely as with any company there are numerous people involved.. It seems just to be all about him
    2. The Rudd leaks may be the tipping point for me.. I think until that point where everything was about a different nation it seemed to have minimal impact but somehow when Rudd was involved and there were the documented Chinese comment it just hit closer to home.. Here is our once leader who prides himself on diplomatic relationships with China basically ruining them with one comment. What he said might be what he thinks in a one-on-one conversation but by taking them out of a private setting and putting them in a public one it completely changes the context of the remarks.. From an almost defensive comment to a threatening one.. And if that is what I believe to be the truth in that case, surely it is the case in others..

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  49. Darcy Moran

    I’m fully in favour of Wikileaks and give the organisation all the support I can.

    Infomation networks are the canals and rails of the 21st century and in societis where government is conducted on behalf of the citizenry it is essential for that free society that they be allowed to flourish.

    However, on balance, certain documents are of a nature disposed toward secrecy.

    If governments could be trusted by those they represent to withhold infomation only if it were absolutely necessary and to release it as soon as possible then perhaps I would think less well of Wikileaks. As it stands however, too much is done in our name and without our consent, too many of our own political decisions are based on flawed, incomplete or insufficient infomation.

    Wikileaks may cause some harm, but its suppression will be a suppression of freedom, a knife struck into the fevered breast of Democracy not by its enemies but those whom it loved and assumed it could depend upon.

    For fear of choking will we cease to eat? For fear of drowning, to swim? Will the pain of hearbreak hold us back from loving? The threat of cancer keep us from the sun?

    To be wrong once, if indeed Wikileaks are so, is not be wrong to the core.

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  50. Amanda

    Mia i’m really sorry to say this, but you have lost me for good after this one. I’m quite shocked at how dumbed down, and frankly uneducated your post about WikiLeaks is. Do you really think it is appropriate to quote an unknown ‘Canadian news site’ that really, in the terms of good quality news reporting, I’d say isn’t really up there? And after reading many people’s responses, well all i can say is I’m speechless. But i will say ‘hooray’ to ‘startshort’ for politely suggesting to you to maybe read The Guardian once and a while. I know this is not the nicest post ever written either, but i really feel i need to say something, because my jaw is still on sitting on the floor. I nearly wrote a similar response last week to your lovely, very important piece about what you thought of Gwyneth Paltrow and all the lovely responses people wrote about that one, but I decided it wasnt worth the time or effort. This time i couldnt hold back. Please everyone don’t waste so much time reading blogs like these and instead pick up The Economist once in a while.

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    • Lulu

      Regardless of your urge to “shoot the messenger” over the Canadian/Indonesian story, it raises a point. Sometimes communications are secret for a reason. Do you think the value of exposing the communications in a case like that would be worth the risk to people’s safety?

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    • Mia

      Amanda, granted, I had to distill my thoughts down on this one today – we could have linked to 100000 different commentaries and viewpoints of what Assange and Wikileaks represent.

      As I said, I’ve flip-flopped with my opinion a bit over the past week but from everything I have read, I have come to my own conclusion (which you are most welcome to agree or disagree with) that I don’t believe the way Wikileaks is going with this dump is in the best interests of the world.
      Simplistic? Not intellectual or nuanced enough?
      Yes. You’re right about that.
      Mamamia is not The Economist (thank God) and I’m sure there are few people making an either/or choice when it comes to reading material.

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      • Nick

        Firstly, only a few hundred of the cables have been released so far, not all 250,000.

        Secondly, there have been some important facts revealed by the small number of documents released so far:

        From: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/01/lieberman/index.html

        (1) the U.S. military formally adopted a policy of turning a blind eye to systematic, pervasive torture and other abuses by Iraqi forces;

        (2) the State Department threatened Germany not to criminally investigate the CIA’s kidnapping of one of its citizens who turned out to be completely innocent;

        (3) the State Department under Bush and Obama applied continuous pressure on the Spanish Government to suppress investigations of the CIA’s torture of its citizens and the 2003 killing of a Spanish photojournalist when the U.S. military fired on the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad (see The Philadelphia Inquirer’s Will Bunch today about this: “The day Barack Obama Lied to me”);

        (4) the British Government privately promised to shield Bush officials from embarrassment as part of its Iraq War “investigation”;

        (5) there were at least 15,000 people killed in Iraq that were previously uncounted;

        (6) “American leaders lied, knowingly, to the American public, to American troops, and to the world” about the Iraq war as it was prosecuted, a conclusion the Post’s own former Baghdad Bureau Chief wrote was proven by the WikiLeaks documents;

        (7) the U.S.’s own Ambassador concluded that the July, 2009 removal of the Honduran President was illegal — a coup — but the State Department did not want to conclude that and thus ignored it until it was too late to matter;

        (8) U.S. and British officials colluded to allow the U.S. to keep cluster bombs on British soil even though Britain had signed the treaty banning such weapons, and,

        (9) Hillary Clinton’s State Department ordered diplomats to collect passwords, emails, and biometric data on U.N. and other foreign officials, almost certainly in violation of the Vienna Treaty of 1961.

        (See original article for links)

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        • Lulu

          Re: (1) to (6) – in other news, fire hot, water wet.

          IOW, tell us something we don’t know.

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          • Nick

            “Common” knowledge of something is very different to hard evidence of it.

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      • Me

        I think you have a responsibility to do a bit more than the very bare minimum of research when you write a post on this kind of subject.

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      • Savvy

        Mia, really. You can’t publish a piece about a serious topic like this and then when readers pick you up on your lack of research, intellectual comprehension or journalistic integrity suddenly say “Mamamia is not The Economist (thank God)” and use that as some sort of excuse for shoddy work.

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