Lenggeng detention center, south of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
“Just to clarify – we’ve suspended some live meat exports to Indonesia but we’re still happy to export unaccompanied children to Malaysia?”
I read that remark on Twitter by Channel 7 journalist Edwina Bartholomew and I re-tweeted it, with a strong conviction that children must never be the pawns in Australia’s attempts to manage asylum seeker arrivals.
During this week over 200,000 outraged Australians signed Get Up’s petition asking for the Australian government to ban live export of cattle to Indonesia. Australian viewers were disgusted by the footage on ABC’s Four Corners showing heartbreaking torture and mistreatment of cattle in Indonesian abattoirs. Even meat exporters here have said they would rather go out of business than be implicated in the terrible cruelty that those animals were subjected to.
If those same outraged Australian viewers could be shown asylum seekers being caned or whipped in Malaysia, or if they could be shown vision of their fellow human beings in what the President of the Malaysian Bar Association describes as the “degrading, demeaning and dehumanising and wholly unacceptable” conditions in Malaysian detention centres, wouldn’t they feel the same? The UNHCR says it faces serious challenges in monitoring the well-being of minors in Malaysia and that those children are forced to move around frequently and live in shelters that are often inadequate and lacking in safety and protection. Do Australians really believe that the Australian government will have more ease of access than the UNHCR?
I’m concerned about many aspects of refugee policy but I’m totally focused right now on Australian Immigration Minister Chris Bowen’s emphasis on the need to break “the people smuggler’s business model” even if this requires us to send unaccompanied children to Malaysia, a country which is not a signatory to several crucial conventions on human rights and the treatment of refugees.
On 2 June, on ABC TV’s Lateline, Minister Bowen said:
“I’ve been very clear that you need to send a strong message. I don’t want unaccompanied minors, I don’t want children getting on boats to come to Australia, thinking or knowing that there is some sort of exemption in place. I never want to go through … what we went through in December … it’s a matter of ensuring you have a robust system in place to break the model. I do not want to send the message that it’s okay to get on the boat if you fit one sort of particular category.”
Conditions at the Lenggeng Detention Depot
Minister Bowen is no doubt a compassionate man, and yes, it’s easy in a free country like Australia to criticise a national government making complex decisions about how to fulfil its international obligations, satisfy its voters and discourage people smugglers from putting vulnerable people in peril. But does Minister Bowen believe that citizens in this free country are prepared to trade asylum seeker children with Malaysia in the hope of deterring despicable people-smugglers? And does Minister Bowen, the legal guardian of asylum seeker children in Australia now, think that sending children to Malaysia accords with his duty of care as guardian, and his obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of a Child? Among many other important obligations, that Convention requires Minister Bowen in all his actions concerning children to ensure that “the best interests of the child (are the) primary consideration” and that children are protected from harm; Minister Bowen is also obliged to ensure that children who are not in their family environment are given “special protection and assistance.”
The Australian government’s Department of Immigration and Citizenship Fact Sheet on Caring for Unaccompanied Minors states that in making decisions concerning the welfare and care of unaccompanied minors in immigration detention facilities, it draws on “the advice of people with expertise in child welfare, such as psychologists and state child welfare authorities”. I challenge Minister Bowen to provide Australians with credible advice from those experts confirming that it’s in the best interests and welfare of Minister Bowen’s legal wards to be ‘exported’ to Malaysia.
Parents and adults all over Australia need to give this current Malaysia “solution” serious thought. Whatever our views are on asylum seeker policy and even if some of us believe that the trading of asylum seekers with Malaysia proposed in this “solution” is good policy, Australians surely cannot allow children to be traded in this way. Breaking the people smugglers’ business model may be good policy, but causing more harm and distress to children whose lives have already been ‘broken’ is simply unconscionable. If you feel the same way, your options include writing to your MP and signing a petition such as the one currently open on the Amnesty International website here
If you were the legal guardian of a child who arrived here after enduring a terrifying journey and possibly having suffered terribly in their home country, what decision would you make? Would you send them to Malaysia as part of an attempt to break a people smuggler’s business model or would you put their welfare first? I know the decision I would make.
You can sign the Amnesty petition to the PM here, contact Chris Bowen here or contact the Prime Minister here. Make your voice heard. And what should the solution be?
Comments
144 Comments so far
Its horrible. If bob brown has enough influence (hence the push for the carbon tax) how is he letting this go ahead? I guess environment before people. If he put his foot down: Julia would have to listen. The greens vote got her there.
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It is horrible what australia is doing to asylum seekers, young and old. I am a kid and if I or my family were going through this injustice I would want people to take action. So come on Australia – help these poor people and let them in to our beautiful country.
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I am stunned that in this day and age, we can have people with such little compassion in charge of our country.
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heartbreaking, just heartbreaking, shouldnt we put them into foster care? they need a parent not a goaler. i’ll take 10 :’(
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That’s wonderful, would you really take ten? I doubt it. And the next year you would need to take twenty, because that is how it works, once you open the gate. And btw, don’t forget that in twenty years time you may be accused of stealing these children from their mothers…
History repeats…
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The Stolen Generation.
Children in detention centres on Australian soil
And now this.
What a hideous, heartless society we have become, that our political representatives believe that turning our backs on humanity’s most vulnerable – our children – is the best we can do.
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It was Julia’s idea. She rushed it out and told cabinet 2 hours before announcing it. Everyone was horrified and sickened by her plan. There was a sense of shared helplessness. Some believe, she was scared Kevin would leak the announcement if he’d learnt of it earlier.
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If only we had a better solution, a place where these risks were eliminated and we still solved the problem….wait, maybe we could send them to….never mind.
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I don’t think they should be sending any children (or anyone, for that matter) but to send unaccompanied minors is unbelievable. While I understand many may be 16-17 years old, at the end of the day we have seen children much younger left in detention centers here. I think all children and their families who arrive in Australia should be housed in the community as quickly as possible. Unaccompanied minors should be afforded the same care and protection we offer children separated from their families (for whatever reason) within Australia.
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But we can’t even house our people living here. Why should these people get first priority over people sleazy living here waiting for commission homes. We have families living in emergency shelters waiting for a roof over their heads.
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Sorry didn’t mean to write sleazy ( aleady)
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It sounds so simple doesn’t it.
If the word gets out to all the desperate people seeking refuge from their homelands that they could end up in Malaysia instead of Australia they will refuse to get on leaky boats and join an orderly queue.
People smugglers will give up smuggling and find day jobs. Australian taxpayers will never have to spend their precious dollars on anyone but themselves.
Problem solved?
Except that desperate people take desperate measures, there will always be unscrupulous criminals who take advantage of them and it is unconscionable for a civilised country to treat human beings in this way to try and “break a business model.”
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This whole ‘solution’ is in complete violation of the UN Convention of the Rights of a Child.
I’ve just re-read the documents. There’s at least 5 articles that apply to this situation.
These are BASIC human rights. How can we argue with them?
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Have done all the letters and I guess the main thing is that malaysia have not signed the refugee convention and therefore we are sending people into a country that has no record of maintaining safe and proper places for refugees. Appalling.
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This shouldn’t even be a discussion. We should NEVER see a photo of a child behind bars.
History is filled with atrocities that were allowed to happen because people did nothing. Some argue that they ‘didn’t know’ – in the past this may have been true. But now we do know and there is no excuse. This needs to be stopped now.
I remember in my history classes how we looked at decisions made and rolled our eyes at the stupidity of people ‘back then’. In 20 + years school students will be looking at our generation and wondering what the hell we were thinking. It is embarrassing.
I love my home country, but the more I see these issues from the international perspective, the more ashamed I am of our leaders lack of compassion and humanity.
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I wish the government and the public would spend this much time and effort trying to help all the Australian children who are living in abusive homes and being neglected…. It seems we are all about helping other countries, but when it comes to Australian citizens in need, we fail.
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Is it too much to ask that we strive to care about all children?
Why should one childs life be valued more than another based on the country they’re born in?
Noone is saying that we should ignore the welfare of Australian children in need.
The issue here is that we AREN’T helping other countries. If something happens to an Aussie child its accompanied by public outcry (unfortunately, too late). These children have no face, no voice – there is noone to speak for them.
You say we’re helping other countries but we’re not. We’re failing on both counts.
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What is that you suggest that we do for ‘all’ of these abused Australian children who our government and media are ignoring? Send them to Malaysia?
What an ignorant thing to say. A child is a child, no matter who gave birth to them or where.
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Where did I imply that we should send them to Malaysia? Yes, a child is a child no matter where they’re from…, but what do you expect we should be doing- helping all of the children from disadvantaged countries, helping the refugee children, and then, consider helping the neglected and abused children who live in our own country? We need to start somewhere and I believe we should start here. If that s not your belief, fair enough.
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My comment was actually longer, but part of it was deleted by the moderators. This website has lost it’s fun… They don’t allow any fiery debates anymore. Disappointing.
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Fiery does not include swearing at people anon, you’re free to express your views however you wish, but that’s not cool.
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Don’t worry I had the full extent of your eloquent anger sent to me in the email reply notification…
To clarify, I didn’t call you ignorant, I suggested that it is ignorant to suggest that abused and neglected Australian children’s needs aren’t addressed.
I am a passionate supporter of DOFCS and the selfless social workers who do amazing work for these children and I believe to say that we aren’t paying attention is to negate their invaluable contributions.
I could go on, but won’t – it appears to me that you are interested only in shouting out all opinions that you don’t enjoy.
As a side-note (that won’t make sense to anyone who didn’t read your unedited reply) I find it amusing that you seem angered by my screen name of Miss, when you hide behind anon. Just sayin’…..
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What? How on earth was I angered by your name ‘miss’? By writing it with apostrophes on either side? I would do that with any name that I know is not a real name…. If I was referring to myself here, id write ‘anon’. Gee, talk about reading into something too much!
“it appears that you are interested only in shouting out all opinions that you don’t enjoy” ummmm…. I had written my own comment with my own opinion- I wasn’t replying to any one else’s comment, so really it was you and ‘kazliveshere’ that was “shouting out” my opinion because you didn’t enjoy it or agree with it!
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I don’t normally respond when comments go this way, however reading over my comment I don’t really think I was ‘shouting out’ anybody.
I always try to make a point of presenting a composed argument. I refuse to converse with someone who disrepects the other party and jumps from a logical debate to arguing for arguments sake.
With this in mind, ‘anon’, I’m done here.
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Anon, I totally agree. Homeless families , not enough ministry homes to shelter them and now people want them to step aside and gives these homes to the boat people. Not good enough. Let’s look after and house the people already living here first!
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Yuk!
That is all.
Actually, no it’s not. This Malaysia “solution” is vile. Even if the “our” refugees will not be caned or otherwise abused, it’s still a country that uses those tactics on its other refugees.
FWIW, most “illegals” come by plane. The boat people are only political footballs because they are so visible. They’re also the most vulnerable.
Once again: yuk!
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This makes me so sad.
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Malaysia’s record on human rights is not the best and I cannot imagine the cruelty that will be handed out to orphan children, of foreign descent. What a debacle, Julia – worse than Howard by far.
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Have emailed the PM. About this AND the live cattle export trade.
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I can’t believe that no one has blamed John Howard yet !
Whose is to blame for this travesty ? Someone who is a part of this current federal government. No two minute cheat sheet required. Send your letters and emails to PM Gillard and Minister Bowen.
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We’ve already done the cheat sheet!
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You shouldn’t have !
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OK so Malaysia is definitely not ideal, but what should be done to prevent tragedies such as Christmas Island? Seeing those grieving children was just heart-wrenching.
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I read an article on the weekend and from what I recall one of the points made was that people in Afghanistan who wanted to apply for refugee status and come to Australia are unable to do so. The reason? The embassy is hidden in a secret location. So it makes sense that given their limited options they often undertake horrific journeys to get here. I can’t imagine any mother making this decision lightly to send their child across the world unaccompanied. It horrifies me that we’re going to send these children who have undergone trauma beyond our imagining in some cases somewhere that doesn’t have a terrific human rights record, to put it mildly. While I worked as a teacher in the UK we had a huge influx of Kosovan refugees and I worked with kids who had lost and suffered so much. Consequently I learned that the vast majority of refugees didn’t make their decisions to flee lightly. We make it so damn difficult in the first place and now we send them away again?
There is no easy answer to this but this is not the right one. Not at all.
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So how do they then file papers for family reunions? Those are filed with the embassy aren’t they?
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I totally agree – “Australians surely cannot allow children to be traded in this way”.
As an Australian, I am horrified that our Government is even considering this.
PLEASE write to Minister Bowen, the PM and sign the Amnesty Petition and ask your friends to do the same.
We need to show our horror that innocent children wil be sent from Australia to a life behind bars in third world conditions.
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I would be more bothered if I didn’t know that most ‘unaccompanied minors’ in detention in Australia weren’t grown men
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There may be somes cases of this. I mean this respectfully, but can you please tell me Anonymous, exactly how many unaccompanied children asylum seekers currently in Australia are grown men, and the source of this information?
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What exactly do you think ‘unaccompanied minor’ means?
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I read this morning that Malaysia is getting cold feet over this because they are being closely scrutinised internationally and its damaging their reputation.
Upon seeing this, Thailand is not too interested anymore.
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Thank you MM for posting this!!
As I said on the post about the cows being sent to Indonesia, there is a saying that you can tell a lot about a society by how they treat their animals and their prisoners (and refugees fall into the category of prisoners)…
Australia, we can do much better!
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Maybe I got it wrong but wasn’t this government all about “no more children in detention” before they were elected? So, what has happened? Why are there children in detention awaiting their fate?
Labor have moved so far to the right on this issue so as to appease the “stop the boats” mentality of many Australians that they are literally clutching at straws and looking ridiculous as they desperately try to offload these people to whatever country is willing. Even when that country has an appalling human rights record.
Why can’t we just continue to process them here? I just wish the government had the courage to say to Abbott that Labor believes in treating these people with compassion and dignity and stuff your pacific solution… but of course when every vote counts that aint gonna happen.
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“Why can’t we just continue to process them here?”
Because we need to try to deter people from taking a journey that can end in them dying.
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have you ever wondered what these people come from? People don’t make the choice to leave everything they have ever known behind lightly. STAYING where they are can end in them dying, or being tortured, or having no civil rights. They are looking for asylum- protection from what they have come from. Nothing will deter people from seeking a safe life of equal opportunity for themselves and their children. The danger involved in getting here is a minor undertaking compared to some of the situations refugees are fleeing. That we seek to prolong their distress is inhumane and a disgrace to the Australian maxim ‘a fair go’.
Also do people honestly think this sort of news even GETS to most potential asylum seekers? Cause I mean everyone in war-torn, poverty ridden or dictator ruled countries have access to good sources of international media with which to research the diverse policies of various destination possibilities.
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Of course the news gets to them. People in Indonesia waiting for boats are well aware of any policy changes here. I wonder where people get the image of refugees waiting in some kind of seclusion. Many have mobile phones and keep in touch with family who are already here who keep them updated. Word also gets around where aslyum seekers are living. And they have newspapers and TV’s and the Aus government also actively promotes any new measures.
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You really think that’s going to stop people from trying? Even with offshore processing (what a lovely term that is), asylum seekers will still know they can be assessed somewhere (relatively) safe and if they are legitimate refugees, then they will be accepted into Australia so I just don’t understand the reasoning that they won’t make the journey.
This forum has debated the whole asylum seeker topic before and I’m not suggesting that I know the simple solution to the issue cos it breaks my heart when I think of what these people must have been through to leave their country and the journey they must endure to get here. What I do know is that children do not deserve to be kept in detention, under any circumstance. A child has no say in whether they are put on a boat out to sea in the hope of a better life and equally, a desperate parent would probably still take that risk even if they know that the stakes are high.
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If I was facing what some of these people were facing, I’d take my chances at sea.
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Has anyone forwarded this post to Julia???
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sent it to chris bowen
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I disagree with the Malaysian solution but am interested to hear more about offshore solutions, as I do not want to see another December incident. I am not saying I am for Nauru just yet, just that I would like to hear more about other options other than ‘process them all here’, because clearly that’s not working. Forget about whether it’s good or bad to have people come here that way, people are dying.
I would like to see a little more balance on this site. I am generally left leaning (we self-select media that suits our views) but seriously, sometimes this site just constantly pushes leftist article after leftist article giving no platform to an opposing view. Not saying every article needs an opposing writer (heaven knows News Ltd doesn’t give the other side the time of day) but just have a look back over the political articles on here over the last few months. I like to at least hear what other people have to say.
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Refugee advocate Marion Le and Solicitor David Manne now prefer the Howard governments policy using Nauru.
Pity they used to oppose it and campaign against it.
There is no barbed wire at Nauru unlike the one in Malaysia
No, I don’t think anyone wants to see refugees canned, adult or children.
This policy makes the Australian government traders in people misery just like the criminal people smugglers.
I agree with you, Get Up immediately set up a petition to protect animals who have no voice. Where is the petition to give children a voice? Or the one that protests about the protection of human rights?
When questioned over the weekend, Sarah Hanson Young couldn’t give a straight answer over this issue. She even stated that they would be supporting the government over this.
Where is the outrage? Where are the protests?
Nauru is not looking so bad now. I doubt those Malaysian camps have internet and phone facilities. Don’t think thay would even have electricity. Yes Nauru is looking pretty darn good.
What a pity.
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The lesser of two evils is … still evil.
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I think I heard the President of Nauru describing the detention centre once. apparently the refugees come and go as they please. No barbed wire and a low brick fence instead
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Even if I play my strongest devil’s advocate card on this and say breaking the people smuggler model is ideal, why for the love of all that is good, did we have to choose Malaysia as the country to which we send people?
Malaysia has an abhorrent track record for human rights and nobody should be sent their because our leaders are too politically weak to sort out a solution that benefits all.
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Hi Rick,
My understanding (albeit it might be limited) is that only Malaysia agreed to it when the government was canvassing their options.
Unfortunate, yes, but the government will most likely put in safeguards in the agreement to set a minimum standard of care. We are paying for this service as a country, so i think Malaysia would be ill advised to breach the contract as they would loose the money.
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They had better be pretty damned watertight safeguards. We can barely guarantee correct ones from time to time in Australia, let alone in a country outside of our control…
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You can’t dictate to onother country how they run their internal policy. Australia has no juristiction over Malaysia. They are a sovereign state. They don’t dictate to us.
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I think that was my point
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Yes Rick, I am agreeing
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Sorry, I need to pay more attention to what I read
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I would genuinely like to hear how these ‘safeguards’ will work.
Will the police pick up a refugee on the street, look at their card and go ‘ah, you’re an Australian refugee person, I’ll skip you and beat the crap out of some other refugees’.
Australia will threaten fines but no one will care. Malaysia receives aid and assistance from many first world countries and still gets away with thumbing it’s nose at human rights. And if the solution turns out to be a political winner for Australia we won’t care about monitoring either.
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Hi Kate, and Rick. The UNHCR does not support the current proposal and has made public statements to that effect – they have also said (prior to this solution) that they are having great difficulty monitoring the care of minors in Malaysian detention centres. Malaysia is a sovereign nation and I think Australia will have even more limited powers than the UN. But even leaving aside Malaysia, the Minister is the legal guardian of these children so I think sending them anywhere that is not better care than they have now (which may also be inadequate) would be a shameful thing for Australia.
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I think the basics will be that if there is evidence that Malaysia arent complying with the safeguards, the ‘contract’ will be void, then no more money for malaysia from australia.
Thats probably the essence of it, but i dont think this was going to be a permanent arrangement – especially if Malaysia doesnt uphold its end of the bargain.
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When Gillard first proposed a ‘Regional Processing Centre’, I actually thought there might be something in it. IF we could ensure fair, dignified and compassionate treatment of people, and IF we could expedite processing, then the advantage would be possibly breaking the ‘business model’ (what an ick term!), AND taking the matter outside the rather sordid and grubby realm of Australian domestic politics.
But as you say…..Malaysia?? How to completely f^*k-up a potentially good idea with totally crap execution.
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Especially given her assurances during the election, in knocking back Nauru as an option, that we would never send asylum seekers for processing in a country that was not a signatory to the relevant human rights conventions. Face. Palm.
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Woops, there goes another election promise.
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I’m counting.
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Rick if I was being pedantic I’d chip you for using the wrong “there” in your last paragraph
but in all seriousness – and this is a very serious issue – this really has me scratching my head too. Why Malaysia? The Gillard Govt seems to be looking for a short term fix. This makes no sense whatsoever for the long term solution to the plight of refugees.
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I think you know I know which one I mean! I’m trying to plan a show, write several articles, comment and Twitter all at the same time
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East Timor said no, and to look at Nauru again is politically untenable given how long Labor spent opposing it. Can’t be wrong, not after the all the praise and hurrahs when they ended that policy.
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Like I said below, have you ever shown this much concern in the past for the Malasyia people who are the victims of these abhorrent human rights abuses? Or are you only concered about this issue because it is trendy this week?
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But Australia wasn’t actively sending potential victims before. There is a lot of injustice in the world, this site cannot shine a light on it all. To focus on a current topic where Australia is contributing to potential human rights abuses makes perfect sense.
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Oh and if anyone is interested there is an SBS doco called ‘Go Back to Where you Came from’ – Sunday June 19 to Tuesday June 21. speil below…
This SBS documentary takes 6 Australians on the reverse of the journeys undertaken by refugees to claim Australia’s protection. Screened over three consecutive nights, it promises to be compelling and powerful viewing
Details: 8:30pm nightly on SBS.
Regardless of anyone’s views/thoughts/opinions on refugees, I think it would make compelling viewing.
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I saw the promo for that doco – it looks very interesting, thanks for the reminder.
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Here are some stats from ChilOut – the children out of immigration detention organisation.
Help Unaccompanied Minors
In response to Senate Estimate questions. the Department has just provided this analysis of the length of time unaccompanied minors (UAMs) had been detained as at 18 February 2011.
UAMs
Under 3 months 47
3 months – 6 months 98
6 months – 12 months 228
12 months – 18 months 8
18 months – 24 months 0
2-3 years 0
Longer than 3 years 0
TOTAL 381
The Age last week ran this story about UAMs in Melbourne::
At the MITA, there are more than 100 teenage boys whose common emotional denominator tends to be depression and despair – a mental state that asserts itself in acts of, or attempts at, self-harm, and is reflected in their blank expressions and scarred arms.
Their sense of self-worth is diminished each time they are permitted to leave, whether on an excursion or a trip to the doctor, by the presence of security guards. It makes them feel like criminals, says Noor.
There is a desperate need for caring families prepared to take unaccompanied teenagers into their homes especially in Victoria to enable them to maintain relationships already forged. Many are being relocated interstate even when they have family alternatives.
http://content.enewslettersonline.com/21240/49725.html
What’s the solution? No idea. But I do remember Mia or MM doing a piece noting that at the rate the refugees arrive it would take 20 years to fill the MCG. Personally (IMHO – and I know I am going to get shouted down!) I just think the UK deal with their refugees in a much more humane way. They are allowed to work, live in the community and start their new life while waiting for their docs to be processed. Regardless of whether they are allowed to stay or not at least they are treated like human beings. And while I am not sure of the figures, I think the UK get a lot more refugees than Australia ever will. I just think we, as a country need to grow up and become a responsible country of the world and take more people who are rendered homeless or have their lives in danger in their country of origin. I’m sure they would rather be at home in their own country and safe than here – or anywhere else for that matter. Ok, taking cover now LOL
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Where do they find places for these immigrants to live while their documents are being processed? That would be an ideal solution but i dont really know where we could get the resources to follow suit…
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At last some facts…you seem to be doing better than the Gov’n. Maybe we need to elect politicians who actually have an idea about world issues. Not much chance of that when the majority (not all) come from affluent suburbs and elite schools. Could we have a panel or worldly souls to help this piss weak Gov’n please.
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I can’t remember the stats either, but Australia takes in the least refugees than almost all other countries. Most refugees go to neighbouring countries, equally as poorly resourced as those they’re fleeing. The brave venture further, for better options for their families. But i suspect, that like us, most would prefer for their home to be safe.
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Kate – good point and I can’t seem to find any info on the internet about where/how the UK house their refugees (am at work too so prob best I stop surfing!). Tehre is a website called icar – ‘information center about refugees’ in the uk and their stats page made my head spin. interestingly the UK is taking about a quarter of what it did ten years ago. Adn they seem to have a few more ‘categories’ in order to process refugees under… not that I know exactly what our ‘categories’ are. Actually the more I read the more ignorant I become! Like I said, its a tough one but I do not support this policy one bit and like Anon & Claudia I am deeply disappointed with the current govt on this issue. Back to work…
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You answered your own questions, yes the UK and some other European countries house and allow them to work etc while they are being processed but that is exactly why they have so many more seeking asylum there, because it us easy for them. We make it difficult and not as many try it.
There are huge problems in Europe with countries like Italy letting everyone in and once they have the papers they can go anywhere in the EU. Most go straight to France because of their awesome welfare system, and there they stay on welfare for generations.
Not saying our current solution is right but there has to be a balance of not letting everyone in with checking and without limits and not keeping up the law on asylum seekers.
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Very good point about the European system, Anon. Italy and its neighbours have had huge disputes over this.
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I think Australia has just reached it’s lowest point on this issue. Sending adults or children is not acceptable. Human rights are there for a very good reason. I don’t think some Australians realise how inhumane some parts of the world can be. Yes they may be illegal immigrants but this is not the answer, Can we please consult some intelligent, world leaders in the field to try to come with a more suitable solution. I cetainly don’t know the answer. But this proposed solution is ridiculous. WHo on earth came up with it. May be we should send them over for a flogging for being displaced!!!
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So let me get this right, Malaysia is not good enough for asylum seekers because of their poor human rights issues but it is good enough for the Malay people? Or did I miss the letter writting and protests about their plight?
If it is an inhuman part of the world then surely we should be helping out the Malaysia population as well.
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It’s not about Malaysia, it’s about how Malaysia treats asylum seekers. Although there are some minorities in Malaysia who have a terrible time too…in wider society.
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How dare you criticise…I have worked the past 25 years in the field of welfare and human rights and the piece was about us sending boat people to Mayalsia not the plight of Mayalsian born souls. Pull your head in. That is of course another very important issue but not the one being discussed here hence my specific comments. You have every righ to raise the issue but don’t attack others.
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Wow, take it easy. I don’t think anon 1 was critiquing you, just pointing out a fact. I see where they were coming from and I do think they are related to some extent.
You don’t want to send the asylum seekers to a country with a poor human rights record but if they are so bad why is no one protesting about that and about how it treats it’s own people? I personally like it when people bring up questions like this, it makes me think more about an issue and see it from a different perspective. Like why haven’t we ever talked about the poor record in Malaysia if it is really that bad? Why are we only conceded for the asylum seekers and not the other victims? It is good to be challenged on your opinions sometimes. Don’t take it so personally
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I am disturbed that everyone is concerned about sending asylum seekers to Malasyia because of human rights violations but no one has said anything about the thousands of Malays who have to live with human rights abuse everyday. If what is happening in Malysia is not good enough to send asylum seekers into, why is it ok for Malays?
Why does it seem that we can only hold the rights of one group in our conscious at any one time?
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I wonder if the commenters saying that this will deter people from putting children in the boats in the first place have any clue what those people are going through. They are not ‘choosing’ to ‘jump the queue’, they are desperate. I don’t pretend to know the ins and outs of every scenario facing a person who puts a child onto a boat, but I am fairly sure that in most instances they are doing it to save the child’s life and it is their last option. Perhaps that child is an orphan who is put in a boat by a crippled grandparent who is physically unable to care for them. Perhaps they will continue to do so even if the children are sent to Malaysia, because that would still be the best of a bad deal. Perhaps they have no idea where the kids will end up, such is their desperation. None of that is within our control. What is within our control is whether we reject desperate children in need when they are here on our shores.
Sure, deal with the people-smugglers harshly.The people-smugglers are not the issue here – in fact neither is the motives of the adults who put the kids onto the boats – the issue is we are failing in our duty of care to protect innocent children if we send them to Malaysia. Regardless of the intentions to dissuade people-smugglers, there is no excuse for failing to protect children from harm when we have the means to.
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It does seem a ludicrous solution … that to deter the profiteering people-smugglers, we will not punish them, but rather victims of trauma.
If we apply this kind of logic to the rest of our political policies we should then not punish the rapists, but blame the victims ….. oh that’s right we already do that … then we should not punish the conglomerate and unethical perpetrators of environmental pollution and market perversion … we shouldn’t even tax them … we should continue to insist that individuals fight for themselves and battle on in unfair social power relations …. and blame those who don’t succeed against such odds ….. oh that’s right we do that too
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I’m rather disappointed you have to compare the torture of cows and the outrage shown by Australians to the issue of asylum seekers.
The issues are two separate and awful situations and it’s disappointing that you’d need to compare one to get the attention of the other.
I am deeply disappointed in Julia Gillard’s administration over so many issues including the appalling Malaysian ‘solution’ and even more so now I know that this will include sending asylum-seeking children to a country where human rights are not only not guaranteed but tend to be stampled on every day.
But that said, it’s sad that you felt it necessary to try to diminish what is a severe and serious situation for voiceless animals being sent to Indonesia and other countries to certain torture. Surely one argument could be made without trying to sideline the other?
Anyway, thanks for the article and I strongly support this cause and will do everything I can to show my outrage on the issue. I could not be more disappointed in the Gillard government over this…I feel like she’s let us all down.
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I think it’s compared not to diminish anything but because of the disparity of the public response to the two issues. The animal cruelty has clearly illicited more sympathy. It is really worthwhile asking why.
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Many thanks for your comment Claudia. I see your view on the comparison with the export of live cattle. I am totally against that also and I did not intend to belittle that issue either. I do hope it has not come across that way. To me, both issues are important, for different reasons – and both issues are similar in that we have an obligation to be humane and caring, and of course follow international law. I think Edwina Bartholomew’s tweet is powerful because it points out that the Minister in charge of cattle export acted swiftly yet the Minister for Immigration has not acted swiftly to review his government’s questionable proposal for unaccompanied children.
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Thanks Yvette.
I think the problem with the tweet (and the intro of your article) is that it seemingly downplays the passion of the supporters of the cause(s) rather than puts pressure on those in charge of remedying the issues.
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I thought perhaps it was time I weighed in, given it was my tweet that has caused such passionate debate!
Claudia, the intention of my comment was to showcase our hypocritical reaction to live animal exports versus sending unaccompanied minors to detention in Malaysia. I most certainly did not intend to belittle either issue.
Like many Australians, I was shocked by the images on Four Corners last week. I was pleased to see the government take immediate action in terms of suspending some live exports to Indonesia – their press release went out minutes after the show aired. I applaud Sarah Ferguson for her compelling story that made so many people sit up and take action.
As Yvette points out in her article, more than 200,000 people have signed Get Up’s petition to suspend animal exports.
How many people have signed the Amnesty petition to stop detainees being sent to Malaysia?
I just checked, 7705.
Why is that? I couldn’t answer that question so I turned to the twittersphere for help.
In my mind, both issues deserve national attention. If only all Australians had as much compassion as mamamia readers seem to.
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“In my mind, both issues deserve national attention. If only all Australians had as much compassion as mamamia readers seem to.”
I completely agree, thanks for your response Edwina.
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I agree, these are two totally separate matters and should not be compared.
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Claudia, normally I’d agree with you on this, because you do often see the argument go something like “forget about x, what about y”. But I think in this case if we refuse to compare the response to the two issues, we might miss an opportunity to learn something about ourselves as a society. It is absolutely true that we can and should care about both issues. But the events of the last week suggest that we (using ‘we’ in the broadest sense) don’t. 4 Corners was able to touch something in Australia and mobilise justifiable outrage into some form of action (albeit long overdue). I don’t think a comparison necessarily has to – or should – be about taking anything away from that. Its about asking what is missing, or interfering, in the asylum seeker argument? Why have we not felt the same connection? Or if we have, why are we seemingly powerless? I think these questions are worth examining, because we might learn something that we can use to make a difference. The 4 Corners program and the reaction to it provide a context for doing that.
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I hear what you’re saying, I really do.
It reminds me of a 4 Corners episode I saw about an aboriginal community that had three children murdered by a white man (I think it was in the 70s) and the subsequent police inaction and government response (not to mention general public reaction) was shockingly inadequate. That night I tweeted about it and asked if anyone had seen it and most people hadn’t and the few that had said it was ‘not good enough’ but meanwhile I couldn’t sleep that night thinking about the injustice of it all. There should have been a huge post-story reaction to the piece and there wasn’t.
Some issues seem to evoke deep passion and some don’t and it does seem really unfair, but as I said below the issue I have with the comparison is that it downplays the passionate outpouring of emotion caused by the cattle story rather than focuses on what is equally abhorrent – our treatment of asylum seekers.
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Claudia, I agree with absolutely everything you said about Julia Gillard and her administration. As I said on another post (I think the Penny Wong one) I have never felt so angry with the government. I feel really let down by their decisions of late, and I wonder what the rest of the world thinks about Australia and our leaders.
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Same as us, BB. That the Gillard government is fucking useless, and always will be……
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Yep I have never been so disappointed. The asylum seeker issues, the live export trade, gay marriage and a million other reasons!
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I agree that we need to hit the smugglers in their wallets and I have wondered if a market-based plan would work.
What if we had boats in Indonesia (or wherever) and we took on people seeking asylum at 5% below the market rate, brought them back here and processed them quickly on Australian soil. We could keep the money of any who failed to pass entry requirements and refund the money of those who are granted residency?
I’m not completely naive, I can see several arguments against the plan. But it certainly seems like somewhat of a compromise???
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Processing quickly would require them to forego background checks, which therefore would not provide the checks and safeguards to preserve national security – also it would make it difficult to distinguish genuine refugees from fakes. We also cant feed and clothe alot of our own citizens, let alone somewhere elses, so Australia would not have the money for such a solution.
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I’m not suggesting we forgo background checks, but simply that we need to speed up the already abominably slow process.
As for feeding and clothing them, we absolutely can afford it and it’s a travesty that we don’t also spend more on feeding and clothing our own citizens. The money is there, it’s just not properly allocated. It’s not an either/or scenario.
BTW I’m not proposing we bring in thousands and thousands of asylum seekers, there would need to be a limit. Just enough to put the boats out of business would suit me.
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If we make it easier, more will come. So yes, there will legitimately be more and more and more illegal immigrants, people who we cant house as it is.
There is not extra accomodation, we have a huge public housing shortage, we legitimately have nowhere to put these people. We DO have a budget defecit, so we dont have extra money available to help these people.
Yes the processing can be shorter, but there is a backlog because we already have so many people on our shores that have jumped the queues.
I really honestly wish there is a better solution, but for the life of me, i cant see one. it seems to be the ‘cruel to be kind’ idea applies here. if we dont look like such an inviting option, people will stop trying to get here using the wrong methods…
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Karen are you aware of what the background check consists of?
Plus comments like “The money is there, it’s just not properly allocated. It’s not an either/or scenario” .
Properly allocated says who? No one is ever going to agree on how money is funded. If we cut all the arts & sport funding we could afford this….
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thank you so much for putting so much more eloquently than I could, the issues of people … humans over cows. I care about the well being of all creatures, indeed this entire planet, its ecosystems, its balance. But, above all, I care about people. Such immediate and passionate response about the cows, and yet such indifference to actual human beings. Just sad.
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The only way to discourage illegal immigrants is to show that, no matter what age, the immigrants will be treated the same. I am FAR more concerned that parents will send a child unaccompanied on the ‘harrowing journey’ to australia, than i am about where we put these children when they get to our waters.
This ‘malaysia solution’ is designed to discourage parents from sending children unacompanied, in just the same way it is designed to discourage illegal immigration.
To be fair, i am not against immigration, or multiculturalism. i am however, against queue-jumpers. there are plenty of people who are waiting to enter our country the right way. i think the detention centre riots unfortunately set a poor precedent for the tempraments of people wanting to call australia home, however are unwilling to wait their turn.
This malaysia solution sounds reasonable to me. Yes they are children, but if we start treating them differently, it will send the wrong message to people wishing to immigrate illegally.
As a person who otherwise respects human rights, i think that by championing HR standards, we would be encouraging the illegal immigration problem – because when they get here we will give them a pat on the back, some centrelink payments, and a warm bed. For all those slow on the up-take that means there will be more people on boats (dangerous boats at that!) who will try to make the journey, thus putting their safety, and that of their family at risk, in situations we cant improve.
I challenge anyone to provide a more reasonable method for illegal immigration management.
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ah dear, dear Kate. I just hope that neither you nor anyone you love is ever ever driven to the kind of desperation, fear and despair that leaves a mother with no choice but to put her beloved, precious child on a rickety boat.
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thank you anon. I was trying to think of a way to say that very thing. arriving by boat is not illegal. arriving without papers is not illegal. Seeking asylum by whichever means one can survive enough to do so is not illegal. I challenge kate to consider what kind of mother would put her child unaccompanied on a boat to a distant land of which she knows scarce about? I’ll give you a clue … an incredibly frightened, desperate, victimised, marginalised and non-supported mother. Plus, who is to say that these unacommpanied children have parents. They’re escaping persecution, oftentimes physical torture … their parents may be long well dead. Be the love … we do have enough to feed the people already here if those with plenty just friggin shared a bit … sigh
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all of what you have decribed is circumstantial. how about thinking about the people who are trying to come here for similar reasons, but via the right avenues. they get to wait longer, because the processing has now been ‘clogged’ via people who pay money to get on a dingy rotten boat.
This ‘solution’ makes sense to deter people.
Im not saying that there isnt a better solution, im just saying i cant see one. There was never going to be an easy option, but its always going to be easy to rubbish someone elses opinion without offering a viable alternative isnt it?
What im trying to say is that as much as this sounds awful, and it probably wont be ideal for the immigrants, the bigger picture will hopefully be alot more pleasant than if we continue to struggle with the current system.
There is no easy answer, but this is an option, and i havnt seen a better one.
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Oh please, that is definitely not always the case, the children on a lot of occassions are used as a way to get whole families into this country.
I have children and no way would I allow them to be seperated from me and sent on a dangerous boat unaccompanied, or anywhere else for that matter. The parents have saved many thousands of dollars for the trip, I wish I had that much money.
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I wish I was as able to deny the humanity of another simply because I am only able to imagine the circumstances of my own humanity. The issue of entitlement to travel here, legitimacy etc is not the point … This country, of which we are a part, is choosing to be indifferent to the needs, wellbeing, health, and souls of vulnerable children!! puhleese yourself … but I can’t overlook such outrageous inhumanity …
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Answer me this then sigh, whats your humane, cost effective, economical decision to rectify the plight of all these people? These people who you have taken a quick headcount of and decided that they are all genuine?
If you cant suggest a viable alternative, then maybe give credit to the people who are looking for a solution, rather than rubbishing and belittling people who are trying.
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it’s not that I (nor you for that matter) have a solution. I do not mean to belittle you, but it does seem that you are belittling refugee children (and they are significantly more powerless to defend themselves than you or I). I have read most of your posts, and whilst mine are possibly naive in that I believe we do not need to compromise human rights at any cost (ANY COST), your posts seem quite naive about the conditions refugees legitimately flee from, and the conditions of Malaysia. Malaysia is not a signatory to the human rights convention and guarantees no such rights, and the Abbott/Gillard gov (both cos of the whole hung parliament thing … there is agreement there obviously) are considering excluding the human rights conditions from the contract you spoke of. You also infer with “my quick headcount” that I am somehow ill-informed or uneducated about such matters, which I assure you I’m not. I’m just saying is all. Not trying to belittle, just trying to bring some compassion to a debate that seems to trade people’s rights as though they are somehow conditional upon our subjective opinions. I am sorry that means I have compromised my compassion for you. I do not know you, and you are probably a fabulous mother who would never let her children from her. I wish, wish wish wish that the world was as lucky to have every mother enjoy that incredibly brilliant privilege. I really really do … and that is my hopeful, naive and utterly unapologetic position about this.
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Sigh,
I understand what you are saying, and yes i understand my posts may come off that way, but what i am trying to do is offer perspective.
It is easy to say that the govt should do more, but no one can say what it is.
What i was (and will continue) trying to do, is say ‘yes this is not ideal, but what other options are there’ so that people realise this was not an ‘on the spot’ decision made by the govt, but maybe they are looking at the big picture, and yes maybe they have other motives, but at the end of the day they will be accountable for what happens to the refugees, and if people see that they are being mistreated, the govt will likely be rallied to take action (even in some part similar to what happened with the cattle story).
But not offering an alternative doesnt help the govt, and it doesnt help the refugees.
The malaysia solution has merit, its not ideal, but i cant see a better alternative.
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Kate, you asked sigh, but here’s my answer:
http://criticalalpha.blogspot.com/2011/05/immigration-detention.html
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Thanks mum i completely agree. sending an unaccompanied child is not good parenting. I understand that the family may have been persecuted, however this action is just asking for trouble. The parents would have no problem putting them in a tiny and decrepit boat, so i think the malaysia processing centres will be a step up either way…
Sending a child is terrible way of getting a foot in the door for the whole family.
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Oh please?! Let me preface this comment with: I’m sure you are a truly wonderful mum, and I am in no way saying that you are not
; and that, yes, it may not always be the case but a lot of the time it is. If you were threatened with death or torture and knew that the same was in your children’s future, wouldn’t you, out of sheer desperation, do anything you could to save them? Imagine the terror these poor women go through, leaving their children, not knowing if they’ll even make it to safety and have a little empathy. I think there have to be better solutions than shipping small children to a country that hasn’t signed basic human rights agreements. Wouldn’t you hope your children would receive better treatment if, heaven forbid, we were ever in the position of having to get our children out? I’m not trying to have a go at you personally 
just putting it out there. Interesting article!
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Anon,
at the end of the day, ‘genuine’ is relative. this solution isnt about dermining who is a genuine refugee and who isnt. its about providing a solution to the whole problem – for the men, women, and children who are so ill-advised that they see fit to make the perilous journey to australia the wrong way. They are trying to get in the ‘back door’ – and there are plenty of people in similar situations trying to get through the ‘front door’ and do things the right way.
The big picture is what is in question, and lets just say, we treat the unaccompanied children differently, then how do we deal with the influx of children being sent unaccompanied? Will there be boatloads of children being sent to Aus because they will get treated well.
I *think* thats why the Aus govt has decided that everyone gets treated the same.
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How do you know this? How do you know that children are “used”? Do you realise that to get “whole families” in here on family reunification visas, someone has to sponsor them? Are you really suggesting that unaccompanied children are the best member of the family to send here to do that? Cause you know, that’s a seriously long term plan, 10-15 years kind of long. At least.
And no, you wouldn’t allow your children to be separated from you. Because you are FORTUNATE enough to not be able to even imagine the kind of circumstances that might force you to (clearly).
And by the way, it costs 2-4K to get on a boat. It is hardly a fortune (you are aiming really low if, as a memeber of our wealthy and prosperous society, all you are aiming for is “that much money”).
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Anon,
If it wasnt a fortune (to them) then why not have them accompanied? Oh… thats right… because they hope their child gets preference.
Your argument is flawed.
I understand your frustration but you have not offered an alternative, you have simply rubbished someones idea.
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kate … with the softest and most sorrowful compassion I say this, You are arguing that these parents (mythical as many may not exist) are wrong to “use” their children to seek freedom. But you are ‘pro’ this government using these children to make a political statement. Your argument is flawed also. It’s ok. We’re all flawed. The government is so completely flawed. sigh.
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Sigh,
I understand, i just cant see a better option for the big picture. I would love for children to be treated better and kept on australian shores regardless of how they got here, but at the end of the day, thats short-sighted and unrealistic.
The govt arent using them to make a point, on the contrary, they are looking to treat them exactly the same as anyone else who arrives via the same method.
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I reserve all rights to rubbish this archaic and cruel idea. but since you have asked for an alternative, and since I have written a thesis on the matter, here you are:
1) most people getting on boat in Indonesia don’t have ANY idea about the processing laws/arrangement in Australia. There is ample evidence to show this. The success of the Malaysian solution is premised on people knowing about it (the deterrent) and it may shock you that Afghan refugees don’t read the Herald Sun in Indo.
2) most people get on boats in Indonesia because they have 1 in a million chance of coming here via what you and your ilk refer to as “the correct methods”. In 2007, our resettlement intake from Indonesian camps was 15. last year it was about 90. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of people languishing in those camps, many years after they receive their UNHCR refugee status. Until you give them a realistic chance of coming here via a resttlement program, their desperation will not be abated.
3) Many people in Indonesian camps come via Malaysia. Malaysians are not exactly upset about this given the burden (and inconvenience) refugees present to them as a country. They will continue coming.
So. Increase resttlement numebers from Indonesia. By a LOT. Invest into improving camp conditions in Indonesia. Invest in educating illiterate asylum seekers languishing in Indonesia about the dangers of coming by boat. And if we want to avoid the Christmas Island boat tragedy, intercept them earlier and bring them here for processing.
And finally, improve the processing times here. Because actually, the number of asylum seekers we get here is a NON EVENT. It does not impact on our economy anywhere near as much as tabloids would have us believe. Process them in 3 months, send them back or keep them here. You will take care of rioting, of self harm and of all the other horrible things that prolonged detention causes. The delays in processing at the moment don’t have anything to do with people tearing up papers (lack of ID has always been the case), it has to do with basic bureacratic inefficiency.
Or you could just send little children to a Auschwitz-liek conditions. Either way.
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Hi Anon,
I take your point, but if your solution is to work, where would we resettle them? there is a housing crisis here. Even if we resettle them, many of them speak poor english, so then their employment process would be poor too. Or are we going to give them welfare while they are here? And if they are here and work, do we give them a TFN so they can pay tax like every other australian? If someone comes with connection to terrorism or something else unsavory, we have already settled him or her in our country, do we just tell him/er to hold still while we ship them back home?
Last but not least, how are we going to pay for all of the above?
Your thesis and solution sound lovely but they just dont seem realistic or achievable and thats the problem the govt faces.
people would have a pink fit if they assessed the cost of such a proposal and expected the citizens to pay via tax.
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Kate,
Firstly, the processes for employment, housing and welfare are no different for people who come here by boat and are then granted refugee status or those who come via re-settlement. So not sure what the argument is here?
Plus, ALL UP a high intake of refugees per year for Australia would be 20,000. We don’t take that many actually, only about 8,000. But let’s say we took 20,000. pakistan takes 2million. A year. Think we have less of a “housing crisis” (really??!!) than them, no?
1) There are plenty of places for refugees to settle in Australia. There are also plenty of jobs for people with poor English skills to do. In fact, we have a very critical shortage of people to do jobs like fruit picking, abbatoir work, etc.
2) we can give them welfare for some time. when my family here as refugees, I believe we got it for about the first 3 months. Hardly broke Australia’s back and I think we have more than made up for it in tax payments since then.
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Kate the problem with your argument is that it is not illegal to arrive and seek asylum. Please let’s hear no more about illegality except about what our government proposes.
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I understand that its not illegal to seek asylum but it pisses me off that some chose to rip up their papers. Illegal or not, that is not seeking asylum in good faith. And some of those male ‘minors’ are most definitely not minors.
You can be generally pro-aslyum seekers and still accept there are some rotten apples that come here with poor intentions. Some refugee advocates refuse to acknowledge this, and these are the cases that make the general public so angry. If the advocates were more balanced in saying ‘hey, some people do the wrong thing, but lets look past them’ maybe there would be more support.
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most of those people don’t have papers to begin with. it never ceases to amaze me how many people in the West think that the rest of the world operates in much the same manner as us, just a bit poorer. In Afghanistan, the infant mortality rate is 20%. You really think that when a baby is born in that god foresaken country that they are given a lovely little birth certificate? most of the population is completely illiterate. not knowing how OLD YOU ARE is pretty common.
Not really worth getting angry about, in other words.
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The completely illiterate poverty stricken Afghans with no papers are not the ones coming here. They couldn’t afford the 20k journey. The middle class that are coming here do tend to have papers. How else do you think they got through 5 plus other countries to get to Indonesia? Other countries may be poor but they do have paper requirements.
It is a fact that some asylum seekers rip up their papers. And it is worth getting angry about because I don’t see why we should accept people who are not applying in good faith, legal or not to do that.
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Where do you get 20K from? it’s 2-4K. and it’s usually all the money they have in the world, scraped up by their entire families, sometimes whole villages.
You are also assuming that having papers has any implications as to the government’s ability to ascertain anything about the person. Think about it: if there is no infrastructure to issue birth certificates/drivers licences/passports to most people in a country, do you really think there is some sort of a sophisticated electronic intelligence data base for those who do have them? ID is usually a meaningless handwritten piece of paper anyway!
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Hi Critical Alpha,
Valid point, but Guest is right in many cases if they rip up their papers, they have something to hide. its because of these rotten apples we have to take a more measured approach and not assume that everyone acts in good faith.
There are plenty of people who are trying to do things the ‘right way’, i wouldnt not think twice about it if everyone did things the right way, but as so many dont, its difficult not to be cynical.
I agree that this is half a job as far as the ‘solution’ is concerned, but at the end of the day we as a country should be trying to deter people from coming on boats (for their own safety) rather than relaxing our standards. The current system isnt working, so ramping up the consequences seems the logical option.
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Hi Kate,
the difficulty I have is that we persist in using emotive and misleading language continually with respect to asylum seekers. Now we have an unspecified proportion of “rotten apples”. I acknowledge that not all asylum seekers are lilly white. However we have had successive waves of immigration to this country via asylum seekers – Jewish refugees in the period leading up to World War II and in the period during and following the war – Peter Abeles in the post war period and the Pratt family in the pre war period for example. Then we had Vietnamese refugees through the 70s and perhaps later. It is almost certain that a proportion of these asylum seekers did not follow the desired path of the Australian government at the time. They were no doubt driven by desperation to do what was necessary to get here. Each successive wave of migrants has shown themselves to be tough and durable contributors to Australian society. Of course some small proportion don’t do the right thing but that is true of all society.
Sending asylum seekers to some harsh regime will NOT make the slightest difference to arrivals and it does nothing for us as humans with obligations to those less fortunate than ourselves. Refugees are good for Australia, they are good for our economy and they deserve our welcome and our care.
The saddest day of my life was when my friend – a highly educated man and an internationally renowned educator, told me that his 80 year old mother had died in a refugee camp because he had been unable to secure permission for her to come here, despite his willingness and capacity to guarantee that she would never call on the Australian taxpayer.
The numbers are irrelevant in terms of Australia but they are not irrelevant in terms of the future lives of those seeking asylum.
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Kate, I just can’t get away from my central view that we can’t use children to give the “message to people wishing to immigrate illegally.” or use children to “discourage parents from sending children unaccompanied”. Children deserve adults’ care and concern, and we have obligations under several international treaties and under our own laws to make the decision that is in the best interests of that child.I don;t think it can be in the best interests of an unaccompanied child to be sent to Malaysia at the moment. In some cases, these children are orphans. In other cases you could well be right that parents are deliberately placing their children on these boats – but once those children are in the care of the Australian Minister for Immigration, he has certain legal, and I think, moral, duties.
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Yvette, I really honestly understand your position, but i think this solution is designed to discourage, at all costs. I know im a cynic, and il wear that tag because i have honestly seen so much deception in this area. I am not saying that there is not difference in the plights of each child, but to discourage parents from sending them in the first place.
It pains me to say it but this seems to be a ‘greater good’ option, and i cant really see an alternative.
In creating this agreement with Malaysia, Australia would have to ensure that their HR obligations are met as Australia would still be liable for the treatment of these people.
I am interested to see what the final agreement will look like, but i dont think australia will do this half-baked as far as the HR is concerned, even if the children are sent there along with the adults.
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Kate, Malaysia is not reasonable. Kidnapping children is a very real issue here – some for ransom, and if it isn’t paid then murdered, some (if you believe the stories) for their organs. The corruption here is rife, anyone can be paid off for anything and that means that unfortunately, morality can be non-existent.
It would not be surprising if some of these unaccompanied children go missing from the detention centres. It would not be surprising if some never set foot in the centres but are carted straight off the boat into slavery or brothels.
And the ones that do make it to the centres would not be housed or protected properly.
Don’t let them do it.
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Hello InKL – and I think that is why the President of the Malaysian Bar Association went as far as issuing a press release stating that they oppose this solution – we need to sit up and take note when people over there like you, and Presidents of Bar Associations stick their necks out to this degree. Here’s a link to that press release http://www.nswbar.asn.au/circulars/2011/may/malaysia2.pdf
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Thank you Kate! Well said!
It would be lovely to accept everyone who wishes to come to Australia, but the rules and limits on people that come in are simply there to protect us.
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“If you were the legal guardian of a child who arrived here after enduring a terrifying journey……….. what decision would you make?
Unfortunately the question you should be asking is
” If you were the legal guardian of a child that you were about to put onto an unseaworthy boat for a dangerous trip and you knew that they would immediately be sent on to Malaysia, what would you do?
I bet that a lot of parents are going to think twice before risking their child’s life when the outcome will be ending up in Malaysia not Australia. If this saves lives then I don’t think it is a bad thing. Clearly we need a better solution all round.One that stops people from people smuggling but allows genuine refugies a sanctuary.
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You are right, I would be very unlikely to put my own child on a boat on their own unless I felt their life was in imminent unavoidable danger. But once I became the legal guardian of that child, and I had an obligation to look after their wellbeing in all respects and make the best decision for them, I would never ever send them unaccompanied to Malaysia. In my opinion, that’s a breach of duty of care.
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But that is the point the government is trying to make Yvette. If these parents know that their children will end up in Malaysia and not Australia perhaps they will not risk sending them this way. Neither option is ideal.
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I don’t agree with you Illuminate but I appreciate you saying neither option ideal. I wonder though, would you make an exception for orphans or do you think all unaccompanied asylum seeker children here in Australia at the moment, should be sent offshore?
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I have no words. Just feel sad.
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