A recent survey found more than two thirds of us research our medications on-line and half of us turn to “Dr Google” for diagnosis. But how do you know the information you are getting online is accurate? Basically, you don’t. In fact studies show if you search Google for “vaccination”, 60% of the results will not only be misleading but downright scary. In a time when vaccine-preventable diseases such as whooping cough and measles are in the news again, it’s critically important to know the facts about vaccination so that you can protect your kids and yourself.
So, let’s take a look at some of the common myths about vaccination and why they’re wrong.
Myth 1: Vaccines cause autism.
No doubt you’ve heard this myth – it’s been around for some time now. In a nutshell, there is no solid scientific evidence for a link between vaccines and autism. And believe me, science has been looking for well over 14 years. The theory that vaccines cause autism was first suggested by Andrew Wakefield in 1998. Since then, Wakefield’s paper has been discredited and withdrawn from The Lancet and Wakefield has lost his medical licence for showing “callous disregard” for children’s welfare.
Since 1998 there have been countless large and comprehensive studies looking for a link between vaccines and autism, but the evidence keeps coming up negative. The largest study was done in Denmark and covered all children born from January 1991 through December 1998. A total of 537,303 children of which eighty-two percent were vaccinated for MMR were examined and there was no association between vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.
Further, in August 2011, an exhaustive review of the scientific literature by the Institute of Medicine in the US concluded that overall “few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines”. And when I say “exhaustive review”, I mean 12,000 peer-reviewed articles, covering eight different vaccines were pored over by a committee of 18 experts in the largest review of adverse events associated with vaccines since 1994. It was a thorough and herculean effort concluding that there is no causal relationship between vaccines and autism.
Myth 2: Vaccines contain mercury
Mercury was removed from all routine childhood vaccines in Australia in the year 2000 (with the exception of one type of HepB vaccine which contains trace amounts) and it was never in the MMR vaccine. Prior to 2000, thimerosal, an organomercury compound, was used in the manufacturing process of vaccines as a preservative. The process left only trace amounts in the finished product – you ingest more mercury when you eat a can of tuna than you would ever get from a vaccine. Also there are two types of mercury – methyl mercury is the scary environmental toxin that “bioaccumulates” in your body, and ethyl mercury the type found in thimerosal, which does not bioaccumulate.
If thimerosal was implicated in autism, you would expect a significant drop in cases after its removal. Instead the opposite is true – autism rates continue to rise.
Myth 3: Vaccines contain toxic ingredients

Jenny McCarthy whose son was diagnosed with autism led the charge against vaccinations claiming there was a link between the condition and immunisations.
Look anywhere on the Internet and you’ll find long scary looking lists of chemicals that anti-vaccine advocates claim are present in vaccines. Things such as anti-freeze, formaldehyde, aluminium phosphate, human fetal tissue, monkey kidney and lung cells, and most famously mercury. They also claim vaccines cause diseases such as AIDS, asthma, autism, cancers, diabetes, leukemia, lupus, SIDS, the list goes on. Many of these claims are quite simply untrue. The rest, without exception, misrepresent the facts.
For example, some viruses are grown on cell lines in the laboratory that were obtained from aborted fetal tissue many years ago. When a virus is grown on cells like these, it is extensively purified and many steps later, prepared into a vaccine. To say there are aborted human fetus cells in the vaccine is a bit like saying there is dirt in apples since they were once grown on a tree that grew in dirt. It’s misleading, scaremongering and simply not true. As for formaldehyde, there are trace amounts of formaldehyde in vaccines but much less than what your body naturally produces everyday.
Some vaccines do contain tiny amounts of metals like aluminium which have been used for over 80 years to increase the effectiveness of the vaccine. These are known as “adjuvants” and work like a booster to kick start the immune system into making antibodies. But just as the “dose makes the poison”, the concentrations of these metals are so low as to not be harmful to the body. Similarly, small doses of paracetamol cure pain but large doses have been known to cause liver failure.
Myth 4: Vaccines have never been tested.
All vaccines currently available in Australia must pass stringent safety testing before being approved for use by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), which is our government body responsible for regulating pharmaceuticals. Multiple clinical trials for safety and effectiveness are also performed as part of the development process (which takes anywhere between 10 to 15 years, and many millions of dollars) and safety monitoring continues for as long as the vaccine is in use.
For example with the polio vaccine, two million kids were involved in the field trial which was conducted in the US in 1954. More recently, the safety of the new cervical cancer vaccines was studied in large-scale clinical trials involving more than 50,000 people before being licensed for use. Safety continues to be monitored after 35 million doses with the majority of side effects being fever, headache and other minor ailments.
Like any medical procedure there are risks associated with the use of vaccines. This was brought to light in 2010 when dozens of kids suffered high temperatures and convulsions following administration of the flu vaccine. The vaccine was immediately withdrawn from use and the government commenced an investigation.
When people claim that vaccines have “never been tested” they usually mean that they have not undergone randomized placebo controlled trials (RCTs). To do an RCT of a vaccine you would need to take two groups of kids, give one group the vaccine, and the other a placebo, then expose both groups to the disease to see which ones survive. Raise your hand if you can see the problem here…
Not only would such an experiment be unethical, it’s unnecessary. We have extensive evidence demonstrating the effectiveness of vaccines; the eradication of smallpox and the near-eradication of polio from the world are just two examples.
Myth 5: Vaccines don’t work because children who are vaccinated can still get the disease.
No vaccine is 100% effective, and since everybody’s physiology is different, not everyone will develop immunity to the same degree; a vaccine is not a force field. But while you can still breathe in a virus or pick up bacteria off a door handle, the seriousness of the disease will be significantly reduced if you have been vaccinated. In the case of pertussis or whooping cough, severe complications such as seizures and pneumonia occur almost exclusively in unvaccinated people and one in every 200 babies who contract the disease will die.
Also, vaccine-induced and naturally acquired immunity fades over time. Notably, immunity from the whooping cough is not lifelong and infected adults, including child care workers and early years professionals, may be passing the infection on to children. This is why it is so important to get boosters if you are around young kids – especially those who are too young to be vaccinated. If you’re a parent make sure you, the grandparents, and other relatives and friends have boosters before they get to meet baby. Talk to your GP for advice on pertussis boosters (which are free until June 2012 in Victoria).
Myth 6: Improved living standards, not vaccination have reduced disease.
The three most significant factors in the reduction of infectious disease have been clean water, sewerage systems, and vaccination. But even in isolation, vaccination has made a huge dent in reducing rates of disease. Following the introduction of the national meningococcal C immunisation program in January 2003, the number of cases decreased by 39% while numbers of people admitted to hospital with the disease was down by 47%. When the Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib) vaccination was introduced into Australia in 1992 there was a 94% reduction in cases in children under the age of five (the most frequent illnesses caused by Hib are meningitis, septicemia and pneumonia). Yet living conditions in Australia have changed only marginally since 1992 or 2003. Vaccines have also significantly reduced suffering from the complications of infectious disease. Whilst mortality from polio was less than twenty percent, complications such as paralysis, skeletal deformities, and prolonged immobility during confinement in an iron lung caused significant suffering, all of which were eliminated by widespread vaccination.
Myth 7: Infectious diseases are not serious; children are meant to get them.
Just because they’re called “childhood diseases” doesn’t mean it’s okay for kids to get them and neither are they necessarily benign. Let’s take a look at whooping cough as an example, since Australia has been the grips of an epidemic for several years now.
Whooping cough is much more than “just a bad cough”. Kids often turn blue from lack of oxygen during coughing fits, they may vomit after severe attacks, and even fracture ribs. There is no cure for whooping cough – antibiotics are given to help stop the transmission to others – you just have to hope your immune system can fight it. Severe complications such as pneumonia and brain damage occur almost exclusively in unvaccinated people and in babies under 6 months of age the symptoms can be severe or life threatening. Whooping cough is also known as the 100-day cough making it a chronic and potentially fatal disease.
If you still think infectious diseases are harmless, wander through your local cemetery one day and note how many children died from diseases that we no longer see in society today – stamped out largely due to mass vaccination. Some of us are old enough to remember the images of children in iron lungs and calipers during the scourge of polio, which was wiped out by vaccination.
Myth 8: Vaccines cause or spread the diseases they are supposed to prevent.
Experiencing a slight temperature and/or a sore arm after getting a vaccine is actually a good thing. While some people misinterpret this as “getting the flu after the flu vaccine” it simply indicates that your immune system is responding. Vaccines work by priming your immune system with a part of the disease, usually inactivated particles or a fraction of the organism, so that it can make antibodies. This means next time you come across the disease in the environment your body is ready with an arsenal of antibodies to attack it before it can make you really sick.
Vaccines are not 100% safe – no medical intervention is without risk – and mistakes do happen. In the 1950s in America there was a spate of cases of polio caused by the vaccine, but this was due to a mistake in the manufacturing process and was quickly corrected. Regulations, monitoring and quality control has greatly increased since that time, meaning incidents such as this are very unlikely to be repeated. The risks associated with the disease greatly outweigh the risk from a vaccine.
Myth 9: My child’s immune system will be overwhelmed.
Some parents worry that vaccines weaken or overwhelm the immune system, particularly when given to babies or when multiple vaccines are given at the same time. Children are exposed to many foreign particles on a daily basis through activities such as routine eating, drinking and playing and vaccines contain only a tiny number in comparison to what children encounter every day in their environment. The amount of immune challenges that children fight every day (2,000 — 6,000) is significantly greater than the number of antigens in any combination of vaccines (about 150 for the entire vaccination schedule).
More information: This is certainly not an exhaustive list of myths surrounding vaccination. If you’d like to know more, the following sources contain accurate and easy to read information for parents on vaccination including myths, misconceptions and information about the diseases.
Chain of Protection is an initiative of The National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance (NCIRS) which contains lots of vaccine information, videos and more.
The NCIRS also produce the MMR Decision Aid which is a step-by-step guide to the MMR.
A great general resource for parents wanting to know more about vaccination can be found in the Australian Government publication; Understanding Childhood Immunisation Booklet (highly recommended)
General questions about vaccination can be found on the Australian Governments website; Frequently asked Questions About Immunisation
For more detailed information about vaccines, with references to scientific studies, see the Australian Government’s Handbook; Immunisation Myths and Realities, Responding to Arguments about Immunisation
A complete schedule of the current vaccinations required under the National Immunisation Program can be found here.
Please note: The AVN has flooded the comments section below with pseudo-science and inflated numbers. We have ourselves noticed many people using the same IP address and now an AVN supporter has admitted to posting at least 30 times from just one user, using fake IP addressed. So you’re aware of the tactics used.
If you’re after a more light hearted parody of the refusal to acknowledge real science, check out this video:
So, any questions?
Dr. Rachael Dunlop is a medical researcher, science communicator and campaigner for science-based medicine in Australia, with a special interest in the anti-vaccination movement and alternative medicine. Rachael started life as a fine artist and graphic designer but was seduced by the secret world of virus and tropical diseases and was lured to university to study science. After 8 years of study in both Adelaide and Sydney, she surfaced with a PhD and an interest in diseases associated with ageing. Now working in medical research she is currently focused on the environmental triggers for motor neuron disease with a special interest in toxins found in blue green algae. Rachael is a vice president of the Australian Skeptics and a contributor to their magazine and website. She is member of the Mystery Investigators, a science show for kids that uses science to explain the strange and unusual such as UFOs and ghosts. Rachael is a reporter for The Skeptic Zone Podcast which reaches over 7000 listeners worldwide every week. She blogs at the Skeptics Book of PoohPooh and tweets at Dr Rachie. Rachael was the winner of the 2010 Shorty Award for Health and enjoys combining her love of science and art to communicate science to the public.










Comments
1,884 Comments so far
there is lots of medical evidence that shows the links between autism and vaccines, my mother had her life ruined by the flu shot which her own doctors admitted gave her a debilitating virus which turned into an auto-immune disease! but the medical evidence is buried by the western medical so called scientific community that suppresses anything they don’t want the general public to know! this article is full of misguided misinformation and lies.
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Walt Disney called , they are looking for new fairytale writers…..
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And not enough exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What a horrible article! You obviously do not know someone that has been injured by vaccines. I almost lost my baby due to his vaccines. Never again will we take part in injecting poison into our children, just because the government says we have to!
Check out vaxtruth.org for the TRUTH!!!!
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Hi Anonymous – could you provide a bit more information about why you think this is a horrible article? Which bit actually offends you?
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Is that from that cooky lady who calls herself a Doctor but in fact holds no medical degree but a “degree” from a natural remedy centre?! My question to you is…. have you ever seen a little baby dying from whooping cough?! Maybe you should go to the hospitals and see the little wee babies battling to breath or who are unable to be cuddled by their distraught parents because they picked up whooping cough or another lurgy from someone who did not vaccinate their children or themselves!!!!
Wake up and smell the coffee/roses! There is a big reason why we are polio free, practically MMR free, small pox free and why there are fewer and fewer cases of Meningococcal and Diptheria. It’s because a majority of the country are vaccinating their children. This is also why your child does not get any of these horrid diseased!!!
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or it could have more to do with radical changes in living conditions. Running water, cooked foods, etc. If you had done any research AT ALL you would see that every disease you just mentioned was on decline years before a vaccine for the disease was ever distributed.
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Rubbish – if hygiene were the answer, then influenza, the common cold, gastroenteritis and all other virus-borne communicable diseases would also be wiped out – and they aren’t. That’s why we need vaccines, bacause the vaccine-preventable diseases are just as contagious as the above common conditions – you anti vaxers live in the privileged position of having your children in a society where the majority are vaccinated and spout your rhetoric from the safety zone created by herd immunity.
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Fabulous response!!! Very well said… Thank you.
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Heard of aeroplanes? Heard of importing?
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Would you care to cite a source on that? Last time I checked Polio was NOT on the decline at all. Not only is that a false statement, its so obviously wrong to anyone who took a history class.
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I dont know what history class your taking but here is a source from the world health organisation. And incase your too busy smoking the wacky tobacky to read it I’ll quote:
” Polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated 350 000 cases then, to 1604 reported cases in 2009. The reduction is the result of the global effort to eradicate the disease”
Hmmmm dont know about your maths but that sounds like a decline to me….
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs114/en/
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What a crock of shit Anonymous! Small pox was eradicated from our country, the UK and USA due to a huge roll out vaccination program in the 1979!
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Rachel, I would be interested in your comment on the recent work of Helen Ratajczak (the paper can be accessed here http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20049118-10391695.html )
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a very misleading article from an infamously sloppy journalist
http://sethmnookin.com/2011/03/31/more-embarrassing-anti-vaccine-reporting-from-cbs-newss-sharyl-attkisson/
http://www.skepdic.com/skeptimedia/skeptimedia130.html
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and what are your credentials to make such an assessment?
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Common sense and an ability to recognise sound scientific argument as opposed to believing in unsubstansiated scaremongering claims, I’d imagine.
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I’ve read this review. It’s chock a block full of anti-vaccine canards.
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The CDC package inserts that come with EVERY vaccine will goes against the majority of this article. They tell you themselves that they are not tested on children under 6 months, pregnant women, in combination with other vaccines, and they contain mercury! I hope that noone will take this article seriously without at the very least asking for the insert that comes with the vaccines you are putting into your childrens bodies. The levels of mercury are not small
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you do realise that this is an australian website? And that the CDC is an American organisation?
But anyway, it seems odd that the CDC itself states: ‘Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.’ http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/
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I don’t get it. If vaccination is an evil plot to kill us all, administered by the medical establishment who are controlled by the Illimunati (I read something like this on the Australian Vaccination Network’s blog), then why do they actually tell us about the plot in these package inserts?
As a matter of interest, do you know that sexual intercourse, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, bottle feeding, eating, playing, bathing, driving, flying, walking, running, jumping and even breathing, all come with risks? Some of these risks will prove fatal if realised. It’s the absolute TRUTH!!!!
The government don’t even give us a piece of paper warning us of all these risks. I assume it’s a conspiracy.
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I saw no scientific evidence in this post. Anti-vaxers get most of their information from the vaccine inserts themselves which do state that there is mercury in them! They also say not tested on pregnant women or children under 6 months. If you believe that 10,000 vaccines are safe I challenge you to roll up your sleeve and get in line.
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Yeah. Done that.
Oh, you mean all 10000? Now you’re just being silly.
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Table salt has sodium and chlorine in it. Sodium is explosive. Chlorine is toxic.
Water has hydrogen in it. Hydrogen is an explosive asphyxiant.
I can’t begin to image how dangerous saline water must be.
If only all things came with a package insert.
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Love You Andy. Lil bit.
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stay away – he’s mine.
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Help, help! I’m being objectified!
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I saw it! I saw it!
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I encourage you and your family, and everyone here, to get as many vaccinations as you possibly can. As you well know, Dr. Paul Offit says that an infant can safely recieve 10,000 vaccinations at one time.
Vax VaX VAX your child, yourself, your loved ones, and as many of your friends as you can.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3056430/
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If you truely believe that 10000 vaccinations will not hurt you, get in line and roll up your sleeves.
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OK, I’ll play at your level – by the same insane logic then – if you truly believe not vaccinating your kids is ok, why not take them all to live in a third world country and see how they fare.
I’ll bet the outcome of kid with 10 000 vax shots would be a little better….
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What’s weird is that the anti-vaxers all seem to think that people who support vaccination would never have themselves vaccinated. The dissonance is mid boggling.
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Well done. As tiring as it may be, we need highly educated academics to fight the good fight so that anti-scientific tripe doesn’t go unchallenged and become accepted by those who don’t know any better. I’m always shocked when someone will bring up vaccination conspiracies and act like a) that it is true and b) that it is some new and scary threat.
Thank you for a good read.
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The purpose of this page appears to be to scare people into vaccinating children so they won’t be social outcasts. This is the same sales pitch by the Tobacco industry, in their “JOE COOL” advertising campaign,
It’s sad to see so many people posing as concerned parents, just to sell a corporate product.
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Hi Guest, Actually this was not the point of the post. It was simply to present the scientific information we currently know about vaccines. If you can see any evidence for conspiracy then please let me know
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Conspiracy theorists will always skew the evidence to fit their theory – the exact opposite of science. Sadly, it seems, ne’er the twain shall meet, and a lot of breath gets wasted.
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I guess that makes the pro-vax groups a bunch of quacks, because they listen to vaccine patent holders, like Dr Paul Offit, who says an infant can be safely vaccinated 10,000 times. This is Junk, and not even science.
Would you vaccinate your infant 10,000 times??????
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Is any body asking for any one to vaccinated 10000 times? Didn’t think so.
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If it was going to stop him from catching 10 000 diseases, then YES, I would vaccinate him 10 000 times!
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Dr Paul Offit is NOT the patent holder for the Rotateq vaccination, which I assume is what you are referring to? Jeez, i think your lobby group should get a few new arguments.
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I am extremely concerned when something is legislated “For the Good of the People.”
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Er, what other kind of legislation would you prefer?
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He,he maybe ‘for the bad of the people’
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I know. Damn seat belts… and drink driving laws… and food regulations… don’t get me started on smoke free restaurants…
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“I am extremely concerned when something is legislated “For the Good of the People.””
Like drink driving laws?
I assume that’s what you mean, since vaccination isn’t legislated, it’s highly recommended. A bit like not smoking.
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You asked for conspiracy evidence:
Dr Marcia Angell wrote in her book, ‘The Truth About the Drug Companies – How they Decieve Us & What to do about it’ — she was the Editor of the prestigious ‘New England Medical Journal’ for ten years! Also, the statements made by the Editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association: “The pharmaceutical industry’s influence on medicine is now so blatant you’d have to be deaf, blind and dumb not to see it.” (Dr. Catherine D. DeAngelis, The editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association Sept. 10, 2008).
PLease consider this: vaccination is a huge money maker for BigPharma, which makes six times more profit from its business than any other business of any kind in the world.
I have specialised in ASD children damaged by vaccination for 14 years, I have over 2,000 on my books – 30% of parents saw changes following vaccination — and wished they had listened to their intuition (many told me that they were pressured to vaccinate against their wil).
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More profitable than Australian banks? I don’t think so.
However, just like banks pharma companies are for profit businesses. They aren’t charities.
One could argue you are profiting off the “damaged” children on your books by pandering to confirmation bias. But of course you’re doing it for free aren’t you?
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Yes, a lot more than banks. More than all of the Australian banks combined.
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Is anyone familiar with the state of affairs now that means that pharmaceutical companies are now not allowed to give merchandise and perks to doctors?
Maybe they are making money making vaccines (it’s what a business does) but the costs to hospitals and the medical system for kids in intensive care with diseases like meningitis or whooping cough. Which are on the rise again with discreasing levels of immunisation.
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Guest, (may I call you that). You realise Aussie bank’s profits last year were in the region of 25 BILLION dollars. Can you cite the profits by pharma companies on vaccines?
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So, you’ve got 2000 examples of anecdotal evidence (which offers no controls and therefore does not take into account any other factors) which you are saying is more convincing than a scientific study of over 500 thousand, which found no link?
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So let me get this straight. You’re equating vaccines, which are proven to save lives, with cigarettes which are proven to claim lives?
Are you this resolute about driving your car (very dangerous), walking down the street (much more dangerous than vaccinating) and so on? What’s with the irrational fear of science? I truly don’t get it.
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Yes.
http://www.medications.com/gardasil
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Apparently you do not acknowledge peer reviewed and published papers, accepted by the United States Department of Health, and listed at the National Institute of Health.
Please keep listening to Paul Offit, and go get your child vaccinated with 10,000 vaccinationes, because HE says it is safe. btw. how much do you get paid for the BS you publish here?????
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No one GETS vaccinated 10,000 times so your point is moot.
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DR Paul Offit was paid over $28,000,000 royalty (he does not tell the exact figure, but it is believed to be well over $28 m. based on similar patents). In regards to ‘kick-backs’ & other controls over medicine, people should read what Dr Marcia Angell wrote in her book, ‘The Truth About the Drug Companies – How they Decieve Us & What to do about it’ — she was the Editor of the prestigious ‘New England Medical Journal’ for ten years! Also, the statements made by the Editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association: “The pharmaceutical industry’s influence on medicine is now so blatant you’d have to be deaf, blind and dumb not to see it.”
Dr. Catherine D. DeAngelis, The editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association Sept. 10, 2008.
PLease consider this: vaccination is a huge money maker for BigPharma, which makes six times more profit from its business than any other business of any kind in the world.
I have specialised in ASD children damaged by vaccination for 14 years, I have over 2,000 on my books – 30% of parents saw changes following vaccination — and wished they had listened to their intuition (many told me that they were pressured to vaccinate against their wil).
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Good to see you here, naturopath Michael Sichel. I have been interested in you for over a year. I believe you advise the biomedical autism cure community (read: cult), in Australia, to practice chelation therapy on their children, so they can be “cured” of their autism?
“There are no published peer review publications regarding the efficacy of chelation agents for the treatment of autism.”
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/publications/publishing.nsf/Content/mental-child-autrev-toc~mental-child-autrev-comp~mental-child-autrev-comp-che
Did I also see recently that you are advocating the use of MMS (bleach) in this “recovery” of these children?
“Consumers are being warned not to drink a product sold on the Internet as a medical treatment after some users got sick after drinking it—including one person who had a life threatening reaction.”
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm228052.htm
I am interested in hearing your justifications for promoting and prescribing these dangerous, unwarranted, non-evidence based therapies, on vulnerable children, at some considerable cost to their vulnerable parents who will do anything to help their child: *anything*
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Well, we know it isn’t money – he obviously works for free because he doesn’t believe in profiting from sickness.
It’s like companies that make parachutes, seat belts and safety helmets – none of them would ever consider making a profit from their life-saving efforts. Who would?
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@Sichel. Who diagnosed this “vaccine damage”. Was it Varipatis et al? Or, did *you* diagnose this vaccine damage? On what basis did you diagnose this vaccine damage?
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You are so out of touch Guest! And if you think that MM post and publish BS, why are you reading it?!
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Pharmaceutical companies spend more on marketing than they do on research.
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You’ve never been involved in the costs of running a clinical trial if you believe that.
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Tell me where this idea of vaccinating 10,000 times comes from. Because I only ever see it suggested by Anti-vaxxers.
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No, the purpose of this post is to present the scientific evidence.
Scare campaigns use irrational arguments, emotive language, and prey on people’s fear and uncertainty… much like the great majority of anti-vaccination arguments.
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“If you still think infectious diseases are harmless, wander through your local cemetery one day and note how many children died from diseases that we no longer see in society today – stamped out largely due to mass vaccination. Some of us are old enough to remember the images of children in iron lungs and calipers during the scourge of polio, which was wiped out by vaccination.”
And this paragraph isn’t using emotive language? It is a direct statement to make the reader FEEL, and moreso if the reader HAS these memories!!
As parents, we all want is best for our children – some choose to research (and contrary to popular belief, this actually goes much deeper than “Dr Google”) and make an informed and educated decision, while others choose to do as they are told, without question.
Those who choose vaccination for their children fall into both categories (albeit somewhat unequally), while those who choose not to vaccinate will only ever be found in the former group.
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So Cindy, I am genuinely interested – do you think no-one should vaccinate their children? And what would be the outcome of that? Or is it only your children that shouldn’t be vaccinated?
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I think what Cindy fails to realise is that her child is not catching any of the horrid diseases is because we are vaccinating our children!
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Cindy, your last phrase simply isn’t true. I know a number of people who have chosen not to vaccinate simply because its the anti-authoritarian thing to do. I know others who have certainly tried their best to make an informed and educated decision. Lets face it though, peer-reviewed science can be pretty inaccessible reading even for people with some science background, let alone those with absolutely none. I’m not saying this in a patronising way at all – these are people who are my good friends and whom I love dearly. But I do think the material they have accessed does not reflect the true state of the science, and they have certainly been persuaded by emotive arguments that appeal to their ‘alternative’ (for want of a better word) views in general.
On the other hand, I know that some in the medical profession and government services have been dismissive of my friends concerns, and judgemental of their decisions. As well as being downright rude and unprofessional, that’s obviously counter-productive as it only serves to confirm and deepen mistrust of the ‘mainstream’. So while I am very much in the pro-vaccine camp, I also agree with one of the things that I think you are saying – that all parents should be treated with open-minded respect, and on the presumption that they love and want the best for their children.
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ALL infectious diseases fell to almost zero BEFORE vaccinations even began. INcluding scarlet fever, which nver had a vaccine. See: http://www.alternative-doctor.com/vaccination/obomsawin.html
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So Michael in this day and age you would prefer that no one got their child immunised and we fall back into that mind set “Only the strong survive and the weak die off?”
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I suppose it follows your mind set of “only the immunised get educated”.
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Scarlet fever??? (Ever heard of antibiotics?)
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@Sichel. “ALL infectious diseases fell to almost zero BEFORE vaccinations even began”. That is just untrue. Do not provide the delusional Dr Obomsawin to back up your dishonest claim. Back it up with someone who knows statistics, not photoshop.
This post is aptly titled “The Intellectual Dishonesty of the ‘Vaccines Didn’t Save Us’ Gambit”
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/03/the_intellectual_dishonesty_of_the_vacci.php
Read it. You might learn something about yourself.
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I think you’ll find the correct phrase (from the anti-vax almanac) is that MORTALITY* from some diseases dropped before vaccination. Mortality and incidence are very different fish though.
*Hope you liked the capitals. I find them persuasive.
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wow, since scarlet fever is a side effect of untreated strep throat, why wouldn’t the advent of antibiotics resolve that? Also, my daughter had scarlet fever because when she was away at college she chose not to get a case of strep throat treated, so it is still possible and probable to get scarlet fever with a case of untreated strep throat.
The rest is just misrepresentations, bad graphs, and out right lies. Yes, with the advent of modern medicine and sanitation people could survive diseases that previously only caused death and morbidity, but the incidence of many diseases did not change appreciably until vaccines were created for them.
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Cindy,
do you do this with everything? Do you know the chemicals in a ham and salad sandwich? Would you feed one to your child after you find out if contains formaldehyde (embalming fluid) and aluminium? It does, not to mention animal carcass.
Would you ever take your baby in a car given that over 1600 people die in them every year, in Australia alone? Would you let your child walk to school. Would you let them swim or run or step into a bath? All these things are known to result in death.
If vaccination is as dangerous and deadly as some make out, how is it that 95% of Aussie children aren’t showing it?
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Are you quoting from the “Vaccine Safety Study” from 1830?
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You sad, clueless person, Guest. Go and tell your deranged opinion to a parent who has lost a child to whooping cough, see if they agree that it’s a sales pitch for a corporate product.
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I am a concerned parent, this is why I vaccinate my children!
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Dr Rachie – this is a terrific article.
I worked in a health clinic in Africa for three months. I watched women who had walked all day with children on their back come to get their needles. At that stage I didn’t know much about the anti-vax lobby so I couldn’t discuss with them – but I think the concept of people turning down free immunisations a short car drive away would have been a bit beyond them frankly.
Keep fighting the good fight – it must be EXHAUSTING at times.
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Cheers Kate
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Refugees and immigrants from 3rd world countries vaccinate their kids. We see lots of them at work and I’ve yet to see one object. Interesting that.
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not only are they free, but we get PAID to give them to our children!!
anti-vax brigade are the scariest example of FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS
ps. keep up the good work
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While supervising a group of high school girls on the vaccination day for the cervical cancer vaccine Gardisil, one girl said to me “I’m not allowed to get vaccinated because my parents think all vaccines are a con by the government”. I wonder how they will feel if she develops cervical cancer in the future?
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Sadly there are many conspiracy theories surrounding vaccination – this would require an entire post to itself! The thing to remember though is vaccines are developed by scientists years before the government recommends them. And the government is not involved in the development or testing.
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Modern Darwinism
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Getting the “HPV vaccine” is no guarantee that one of the other strains of HPV won’t infect their daughter too. Only a few can cause cervical cancer. I’m not completely against vaccines, I simply believe that the “one size fits all” schedule and the increased doses of vaccines is not in the best interest of the children. I looked at my vaccination record and see that I received a total of 13 doses over the course of 5 years. Children today are to receive more than twice that amount by age 3. I seem to be living a pretty healthy life without being vaccinated against chicken pox, hep A, HPV, pneumonia, and probably a few others I cant’ remember right now. Many people are infected with a strain of HPV and never develop cancer. Completely unnecessary vaccine.
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Gosh, I’m not sure the thousands of families with people who die of cervical cancer every year would agree with you there.
And FYI, the vaccine targets four strains of HPV which account for about 70% of all cervical cancers and 90% of genital warts. It also
helps prevent vaginal and vulvar cancers, which can also be caused by HPV.
Wish I’d had the vaccination when i was young – would have saved me a lot of time in surgery.
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Using your logic, we should abandon all medicine and all modern foods and all modern transport and conveniences and farming practices because some people survived before any of them were invented and all these things carry some risk (everything does). Basically we should forage and eat berries (no cooking allowed because there were survivors before we mastered fire and cooking causes cancer according to some people).
Simply, we couldn’t be vaccinated with vaccines that didn’t exist when we were younger. Could we? Does that mean we should deny our own children any benefits we never had simply because we survived? If we get hit by a bus and survive, do we recommend it to our kids as a useful activity?
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Yup, you got me there. Yikes.
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Wow! How refreshing.
Thanks.
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I’v had 2 lots of LLETZ procedures (17years old & 31years old) luckily it wasn’t to bad although bad enough to need surgery twice. I now have a daughter and she’ll be getting it like it or not…I’m not sure if it’s available for boys but my sons will have it to…
I’d rather have my kids vacc’d to the max so long as it’s safe and preventing such illnesses like polio/hpv/cancer/hepatitis etc…
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I think boys can have it, it just isn’t funded for widespread vaccination for them yet. Because clearly it’s only girls who spread HPV…
One of the cancer charities called me a few months ago raising money to get gardasil on the immunisation schedule for boys as well – they can get cancers from HPV as well, but for some reason aren’t covered yet. It’s ridiculous.
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Guys can get the HPV vaccine too, but it’s not government funded. That was the main reason I didn’t get it when I got all my vaccines updated this year – it’s three separate injections at something like $75 each.
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on par with the girls who, when my daughter was getting her shot, refused on the basis that they planned to remain virgins until they were married so didn’t need them!
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And of course those girls will only marry virgins.
I am a conservative Christian, but I didn’t hesitate to have my daughter vaccinated. My daughter may choose to believe differently to me, she may believe the same. She may remain a virgin until she marries, she may never marry, she may be promiscuous, she may be raped, she may marry a man who has had multiple partners. Or just one who may have passed on HPV. I can’t foresee the future, but I can choose to protect her from a very ugly possibility.
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Yeah, very big in America, that attitude. As was made up by a friend’s husband, print them tshirts: Better dead from cervical cancer than a slut.
But the whole believing really really hard is the basis of much of the anti-vax crusade, so it’s unsurprising. Not sledging anyone’s religious beliefs, just the ridiculous notion that everyone else shares them and upholds them and always has and always will. Completely unrealistic, as you recognise, Maisy. How many churches have people in them that have found the lord after a “loose” start? Or do everything OTHER than vaginal sex because that isn’t real sex?
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Maisy,
I’m an atheist but I have to say I like the way you think. It’s not easy (even for an atheist) to consider and accept all the possible things our daughters might face.
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Yup, had the same thing happen … they wouldn’t let them get the HPV vaccine because it was a “dirty sex disease” but they let them get the HepB vaccine without thinking about it. Obviously because it was new they decided to get up on their high horses about it. I told them to call me a dirty, sexy, vaccinated girl then!
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Blah blah blah TOXINS! Blah blah too many too soon. Yada yada, Big Pharma cover-ups and conspiracy.
I might not have any medical qualifications, but listen to me, a discredited researcher and a Playboy centrefold and ignore your doctor and the vast majority of the medical fraternity.
Also, i have met people with autism. And whooping cough isn’t really that bad. Oh, and TOXINS!
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And fluoride!
And children.
AND TOXINS.
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SHEEPLE!!!!!
Inaapropriate USE of CAPITALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hi Meryl,
Some people reading these comments may not know who you are, so you should direct them to check out your website for more info:
http://meryldorey.org
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Thank you for posting the link SAVN
)
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Gold!
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Hey, where is Meryl anyway?
I’ve read most of these comments and haven’t seen her around. I saw her saying on her own site that Dr Rachie was avoiding her, but the conversation’s here. Where’s Meryl?
Meryl?
Oh well, something about the heat and the kitchen I guess.
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When my son was 10 months old he was exposed to measles by the son of a friend who was 2 but had not been vaccinated. My son was 2 months away from getting his first measles vaccination, and I did not know that my friend had not immunised her son – we had never discussed it because to me there seemed to be nothing to discuss, you just did it.
Anyway, after meeting up with them one afternoon, she called me a few days later and told me that he must have picked up the measles from his cousins who had visited from interstate (also not immunised). This was a Friday afternoon. I contacted my brilliant GP straight away and she gave me lots of advice and told me what to watch out for and actually gave me her personal mobile number for the weekend.
We were lucky, my son did not get the measles, but it was such a stressful time for us and I was furious with my friend for placing us in that situation. She became very aggresive about her right to choose, blah blah blah – and I had to explain to her that I would not allow my son around people who would place him in danger – and she now qualified as one of those people.
For me, when your choices place other people at risk, they cease to be about you and your rights. You do not have the right to risk people who cannot be immunised for a variety of reasons.
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I love to see patients like your son in my practice. The more vaccines, the better friends we get to be.
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What a bizarre comment. If I read it right, you’re implying firstly that the child will be damaged by vaccines and that, secondly, you’ll benefit from that. Presumably you’ll profit from it too.
Weird. Just weird. It’s this sort of comment that cemented my view that the anti-vax lobby are essentially insane.
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Well said Anonymous! I totally agree with you.
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After sitting by my premature baby in his incubator, when he got Meningitis, willing him to breathe, it is very hard for me to understand why we would not try to protect our precious children from such terrible, life-threatening diseases when we can with vaccinations. It’s not worth the risk.
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What type of meningitis did he have????
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There are so many things I don’t care about that some people do differently with their kids. Public or private school? Your choice. Spell ‘Jessica’ Jesseickajhkpl? Go nuts! Feed them a gluten free diet? I couldn’t care less. That’s because really, these kind of things have no effect on me. But physically threaten other children by not vaccinating them and causing disease rates to rise? I care! I do not want to catch this stuff, nor do I want my children having it. This is such an issue because it’s a real, physical threat. When will they get it?
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Please supply a doi: to a peer reviewed and published study to validate your statemets.
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Please show me where you get your BS?? …. We all know Vaccine no longer work after 8-10 years You have to have boosters … Most adults haven’t had a booster since middle school, DEAR GOD We are all dying aren’t we?? lol
All you Vaccine crazies Make me giggle …. I haven’t had a needle in me sine I was 6 and I have also traveled out of the country and I have been in the heart of whooping cough epidemic (lol whatever that is)
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and you most probably have passed on pertussis to some unsuspecting person or even worse little baby! People like you with such a flippant attitude to vaccination are the ones that endanger the newborn unvaccinated children!
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You do realise that the pertussis vaccine (part of the DTP) is not actually capable of having an effect on the transmissibility of pertussis right (that is assuming you even believe that it works as doctors say it does)? Of course you don’t. Because like 99 per cent of people who vaccinate you have absolutely no clue about them. You just think that you are really clever and ‘sciency’ by following the herd. The pertussis vaccine only protects (allegedly) against the toxins created by the pertussis bacteria – not the bacteria itself – so it cannot possibly have any effect on ‘herd immunity’. If Dr Dunlop had any integrity she would have pointed this out to you.
And by the way Oh Great and Wonderful Dr Dunlop – you omniscient being you – you said the TGA took Fluvax off the market “immediately”. But they didn’t withdraw it (they simply advised doctors not to give it to uner 5s) and it took them a month between the first reports and them actually acting so unless by “immediately” you mean “one month and multiple maimings” later you clearly lied. Happy now?
And by the way. The polio vaccine whose test you glorify was withdrawn because it caused too much polio (known as the Cutter Incident). That wasn’t a flat out lie from you granted but it was certainly incredibly misleading.
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Punter has arrived – straight from the AVN ranks. I wondered how ling it would take!
This is the same punter who doesn’t believe it “germ theory” and who thinks that polio is still around – just that docs have a conspiracy to call it something else. Welcome, punter!
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Now there’s a discussion I’d like to see. Punter and his fellow germ-theory denialists against the other anti-vaxers who insist sanitation and clean water (ie, germ-free) caused disease to decline. I’ve seen some advocate both sides so they can just sit in the middle and argue with themselves.
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Stop making me laugh Andy, it’s very distracting from the job at hand!!
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I really wish people would stop banging on about whooping cough vaccine being the holy freaking grail. Newsflash – it doesn’t work as well as we wish. Here in the south west/deep south of Western Australia there are a LOT of vaccinated children with whooping cough. The Health Department has even admitted in a letter to parents that there may have been a batch of vaccinations that have worn off too early. (As an aside, I do vaccinate, and coincidentally I had the whoops last year – it is God awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone)
Dr Rachael can you tell us please if there will be any moves to improve the whooping cough vaccine, and do you know if the number of confirmed cases in Western Australia is on the rise?
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Hi Laura, there was a pertussis workshop held in Sydney recently which discussed just this issue. See http://www.ncirs.edu.au/news/index.php#National
Here are some of the issues they discussed (this is taken from a post by Dr Julie Leask of the NCIRS who attended the conference). The full post is here http://www.sciencealert.com.au/opinions/20110709-22584.html
Reasons for outbreaks: Vaccine refusal is one part of the cause, but more testing as well as better tests for the disease, the short period of protection, and waning adult immunity are all contributing to whooping cough’s resurgence. The tendency for refusers to geographically cluster, such as in the Northern Rivers region which has consistently low levels of vaccine coverage, certainly promotes the spread of infections.
Reasons for increased cases: The rise in detection of cases is partly because doctors are getting much better at recognising mild symptoms and we have more sensitive tests to diagnose the infection. This means people who previously may have been thought to have a viral cough or cold are now being diagnosed with whooping cough.
In this most recent outbreak, we saw an unprecedented number of pre-schoolers being infected. So parents have been encouraged to have their children immunised slightly earlier, at three-and-a-half years of age.
To try to reduce this risk, authorities have promoted vaccination of groups who are likely to pass the disease on to babies, including parents, grandparents, childcare workers and health-care professionals.
Another project is exploring how well newborns are protected if their mothers are vaccinated against pertussis in the second half of pregnancy, a strategy recently recommended by the US Advisory Committee on Immunisation Practices.
I don’t have the numbers for cases in WA but I’ll try to find them for you.
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We all know it’s not the holy grail, but it’s better than nothing, which is the only current alternative.
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@Fabian, yes, vaccines are not force fields as you say and they are not 100% effective. There are problems with the length of protection the pertussis vaccine currently gives and scientists are looking at ways to improve this.
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Hi Doc,
Does pertussis infection offer any better guarantee of immunity (assuming the child survives)?
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The real problem with the DTaP is that they shouldn’t have switched to it from the whole cell pertussis vaccine. It was anti-vax fear that caused that nonsense too. The link between the whole cell pertussis vaccine and serious side effects is extremely weak. Now they want to add more boosters of the acellular pertussis vaccine when they should go back and do more studies on the whole cell vaccine, IMO.
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http://vaxtruth.org/ anyone so ANTI “Anti vax” people have clearly had no contact with a family who has had to deal with vax injury and the heartache and suffering they endure. Thinking they were doing something to protect their family and maybe even the greater good only to lose their child or have them end up permanently disabled. Im not anti vax but i am PRO CHOICE. We are all doing our best to keep our children safe and that is our common denominator.
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Hi Guest,
I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that none of “us” have had contact with families of kids who have suffered vaccine reactions. I don’t think this topic has been discussed. Vaccines reactions do happen – I touched on this in myth #4. Kids were injured by the CSL Fluvax in 2010, at least one girl permanently. Hannah Poling had her pre-existing mitochondrial disorder exacerbated by the MMR and was awarded compensation by the American government. These cases are tragic. Just as kids can get injured through vaccines (but these cases are rare) so kids are injured and die from vaccine preventable diseases. This post is simply about separating the science we know so far, from the scaremongering found on the internet and spread by the media.
I’m certain all parents have the safety of their children as their priority. What they need to assist in making decisions about their kids’ health is accurate unbiased science-based information. Sadly, the website link you have provided is precisely the opposite of this. Indeed, it is one of the 60% of anti-vax websites I mentioned in the introduction. (Mind you, it should be a red flag to most people that a website called “Vax Truth” will be anything but). Sadly, you will not find any balanced information on this website or others such as Whale.to or The AVN.
Scaremongering by those intent on spreading misinformation about vaccines in not helping anyone. And it’s completely understandable that once parents hear that a vaccine might cause autism or SIDS or some other mis-truth they will be hesitant (to say the least) to get their kids’ vaccinated. It’s like ringing a bell – once you’ve rung it, it can’t be undone.
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so are you saying you personally know someone who has lost a child to vaccinations?
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No, she’s saying that there’s only been one documented case in recent memory where a vaccine has been proven to have exacerbated a very rare mitochondrial condition the patient already had.
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interesting, i wonder how you would all feel about vaccinations if they killed or nearly killed your child or left them seriously debilitated for the rest of their life. And i also wonder how important the greater good would be to you when your child can no longer say i love you mummy.
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Do you make your kid stand in the middle of a busy road because they might trip, crack their head and die on the footpath?
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Not as stupid as you’d feel when your kid dies from a preventable illness. Though I’m sure if that happened you’d probably try and bring a lawsuit against the Department of Forestry, Fisheries and Agriculture for producing inferior fruit and vegetables that ruined your kids immune system.
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Of course. If my child died after being hit by a four wheel drive – I might not feel great about seeing them on the roads. If she died after being bitten by a dog, I might hate dogs. If she choked on a sandwich, I might feel uncomfortable in a sandwich bar. If she drowned at the beach, I might never go there again.
No one expects the parents of a dead child to be entirely rational about “the big picture”.
But the rest of us have to consider the actual risks or potential events and not let one event close to home make the risks appear to be reversed when they aren’t.
And then there’s the issue of “knowing” that a vaccine caused an event – and that’s a big problem if we only have a simple correlation of “vaccine one day, dead the next”, as if absolutely nothing else happened to the child before or after vax.
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Yes
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@rachel dunlop – you rock. Seriously, we need more people like you who are educated, informed and credible to engage with and respond to these dangerous idiots. Thank you.
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Good, now we can talk. Actually, almost 60% of the population in one Puerto Rican study had a GSTM1 polymorphism (genetic defect) that prevents the body from properly using glutathione. Add to this the percentage that have a compromised P53 gene, and you see a storm ahead.
Yes there is a need for some way of preventing the spread of debilitating diseases, but it needs to be brought up to date. Powdermed had a good idea, but their figures on adverse reactions were very low, and this would compromise major pharma companies, and put them in a bad light. So PFIZER quietly bought this UK company, and quietly shut it down around 2008. So much for a safer vaccine delivery system.
Please delete this part after reading::: The present intramuscular delivery system is not safe for all people. It requires an acute TH2 response that causes inflammation. Unfortunately, between the GST (Gluthione S-Transferase) deficiencies and human P53 defects from SV40, added to EBV history families, we see increasing cognitive impairment due to elevated cortisol affecting the hippocampus, which is unavoidable in many cases. Unfortunately, these numbers are no longer acceptable, and I have many people in my practice that trust me, but refuse vaccination because of FACEBOOK and email and SMS used to keep in touch with old school friends, THESE PEOPLE KNOW SOME OF THEIR FRIENDS WHO HAVE VACCINE INJURED CHILDREN, and just one friend with a kid that is just slightly on the Spectrum, spreads like wildfire throughout their FACEBOOK friends. It is now a real problem to vaccinate FACEBOOK parents when they personally know of a bad reaction to a vaccine. Mandatory anything is now causing a backlash in the U.S. This is the same thing that happened in Germany before WWII. :::: <>>
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Hi Guest, can you provide any links to these studies? I don’t recall coming across these theories.
You would no doubt be aware of new technologies (currently in development) to deliver vaccines which do not involve intramuscular injections, rather transdermal patches.
Would you extrapolate why the following is bad for Big Pharma?
“Powdermed had a good idea, but their figures on adverse reactions were very low, and this would compromise major pharma companies, and put them in a bad light”
Cheers
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Here is your link to the Puertorican Study on the occurance of the GSTM1 polymorphism: http://apha.confex.com/apha/134am/techprogram/paper_139516.htm
As you see, I deal in facts, and unlike you, I back up what I say.
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Thanks for the link. I see it’s an abstract from a conference and it talks about polymorphisms for GSTS in lung cancer. I’m aware of a polymorphism for GSTS but can you explain what this has to do with vaccination?
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Powdermed can be found here, as it appears today: http://powdermed.com/
I also have a friend who worked on this project, and I was able to get pictures of the device.
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Looks interesting! Is it being used in clinics yet? I’m still unsure why Big Pharma would not embrace this technology. Given that most people don’t like needles – especially kids.
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The actual patents and original data, not copies, have been removed from the Powdermed location in the UK, and sent to PFIZER WORLD HQ in New Yorck City, NY. While I MAY “just happen” to have copies, it would be advisable to get certified copies of the originals from PFIZER.
Here is a link to the actual studies: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=powdermed
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If there are patents then they are public information, no?
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If you would like private tutoring, I am available for a modest fee. I also teach genetics on a post graduate level.
Here is a link to an animal model of autism relating to GSTM1: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20178820
at this point, I don’t wish to teach a class to someone who has set themselves up as a resident expert, but fails to recognize simple genetic variants that affect a mitochondroin.
Ironically, it was MERCK on trial in Australia years ago, when an agent for MERCK stated that they paid people to “mislead” the public, then went on to say MERCK “would hunt downd doctors in their own hometown and discredit them.”
Enough said. I’ve found out what I wanted. When someone posts here questioning vaccines, there magically appears several tear-jerk posts about contaminated unvaxed children, and the worn-out pertussis argument.
Let’s be honest, if patients were well and didn’t come into the office to get wellness checks, and have the AAP frighten them into taking vaccines, we in the medical profession would be driving horses,
I’d like to argue more, but I have a class to teach.
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Wow Guest, what a coincidence! I *also* have PhD in medical science, loads of qualifications, I teach people waaaay smarter than you, and I’m rilly rilly clever *insert some scientific stuff here while ignoring the questions posed by the real expert*.
Oh no, hang on, I’m actually just some anonymous troll with a serious agenda and no credibility whatsoever. Sorry, my mistake.
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ooooo, me too! And I can use CAPITALS to emphasise EVIL!! (they taught me that when I was studying for AGES)
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Wouldn’t a natural infection, say measles, cause worse problems than a vaccination in someone with a genetic defect of the sort you describe?
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“Wouldn’t a natural infection, say measles, cause worse problems than a vaccination in someone with a genetic defect of the sort you describe?”
No. The immune system does not typically under the acute adjuvant driven inflammation, and therefore does not undergo the “cytokine storm” activity when the immune system is chronically forced to the TH2 mode by an adjuvant. Without this mechanism, there is no acute demand on magnesium, nor is there an acute demand for 25-hydroxy vitamin D for the purpose of apoptosis, which can be further compromised by a “hijacked” p53 gene.
Also…. I wanted to vaccinate my own kids with the Powdermed unit, and was carefully following its development. Then it disappeared off the face of the earth when Pfizer took over. I would not hesitate to vaccinate using the powdermed device.
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Please shut YouRE ignorant mouth … I live with a child who was vaccine injured and if it were to happen to your child you would change youre tone….
And yes He lost all control of his eye’s and he stiffened he has been in therapy since he was 2 months old he is 20 months now and he can’t talk , among many other things!!!
GET OVER YOURE CRAZINESS!! PLEASE
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Can I ask what vaccine he had. I refused the Hep B vacc at birth for all my kids. If I can recall their first normal vaccs they got were at 3 months old. Sorry for your sons injury. Will he recover?
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Yay – they’re coming thick and fast:
Anti-Vax handbook page 47: “I’m not anti vax but i am PRO CHOICE.”
Take a look at this:
“I’m not anti-vaccination, I just don’t recommend it.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd_HAnosXdg
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Love this article! Thank you!
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So when Rachael says that:
1. there is more mercury in a can of tuna that in A vaccine
2. we produce formaldhyde naturally than found in A vaccine…
Is she only talking about per vaccine? Or is she talking about the full schedule? which consists of atleast 8 vaccines at the age of two months, which seems to be the same amount given regardless of the weight,height or age of the baby/child.
Then I think maybe babies are getting too much mercury, aluminium etc. Am I wrong?
I really think we vaccinate our babies too early.
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Yes, you are wrong.
An infant gets two intramuscular immunisations and one oral immunisation at 2, 4 and 6 months. Not 8.
There is no mercury compound in childhood immunisations.
You get more aluminium in a banana than in an immunisation.
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The OPV? Replaced by the safer IPV in 2005.
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The oral vaccine is for Rotavirus.
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I am pro vaccinate so dont shoot the messanger but I believe Guest is referring to that there are 8 different diseases in one sitting as such – check them out and they can vary from state to state, but when mine kids were done it was 3 diseases in one needle and 4 in the other and then the oral polio – I think polio is within the needle shot now???
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Yes thats what I was referring to. The 8 viruses in one vaccine. Would there not then be more than one serving of preservatives and chemicals?
I didnt vaccinate my child as I wanted to wait as long as possible til his immune system got stronger and then we would reconsider if we decided it was worth it, compared to the risk of side effects.
Im strongly against the Hep B shot at birth, as I doubt my child is going to come into contact with a HepB infected person, have sex or share needles with someone between the ages from birth to 5, when the vaccine wears off…
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Statistically, if your child is a girl, and your ring fingers are not longer than your pointer fingers with your hands placed palm down on a table, and if you do not have a high arch on your foot and neither your parents or grandparents have a history of EBV or arthritis, fibroid cysts, early cancer or heart disease, it is generally safe to vaccineate at a reduce schedule, but avoid concomitant vaccinations (multiple vaccines administered at the same time). **not to be consrtued as medical advice**
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This was my concern is exactly what you are saying… I looked at both sides and chose to vaccinate but didnt feel right about the assault on the immune system so I separated where I could. My plan was one needle, they saw our chiro then 2 weeks later once (just what I thought was a good time to wait) get the next one… More hassle I guess – more trips to Dr but this is what I believed to be the right thing to do at the time. I chose not to vaccinate for Heb B at birth for the exact same reasons you stated but did so in the following. There are ways to do things and there are wonderful Doctors out there who will support this way and allow you to separate them… It annoys me when people get so one sided about it all when there are wonderful compromises available !
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OMG We could not believe they wanted to vaccinate our 1day old baby with Hep B. We asked what is the risk of him getting Hep B and they said “sharing needles and sex”. We refused the Hep B vacc. with all 3 of our children. We have given them all the other scheduled vaccs, as we figure they have been around for a long time now. I am suspicious of drug company’s though.
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Dr Rachie, correct me if i am wrong, but I believe the Hep B vaccination now protects for much longer than five years? It is also proven to provide protection against liver cancer?
Also, in order to eradicate diseases like Hep B, I believe universal immunisation is the best starting point?
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I’m not going to be very snarky here after all… but whoever said the only way to get Hep B is “sharing needles and sex” was wrong. Babies can get it from contact with blood via routine boo-boos, or saliva from mouthing random stuff they pick up or share.
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Only 1/2 of children who get HepB have a HepB positive parent
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Can you describe what a stronger immune system is and how it occurs? At what point is it strong enough? Do you think the world’s immunologists just make stuff up without regard for effects on the immune system? Why?
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Whatch how fast this gets modified or deleted::
Please clarify: Why do the people who make the Gardasil HPV vaccine, now refuse to vaccinate girls with allergies, are sick, have immune system problems, or are pregnant? If this was known by the parents of kids who died or are now sick after the HPV vaccine, these kids would still be alive and well. All these “EXCLUSION” CRITERIA are now listed by MERCK in their current clinical trial called the “MOTHER DAUGHTER INIATIVE” a.k.a. NCT01096134, available at http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01096134?term=HPV+Merck&rcv_s=01%2F01%2F2010&rcv_e=12%2F30%2F2010&rank=14
Since the purpose of aluminum hydroxide in a vaccine adjuvant is to create inflammation, and aluminum provides a binder key to the capsid of the L1 VLPs in the HPV vaccine, don’t you think there may be a prolem since spinal cord lesions are increasing, and are now found to be associated with aluminum binding to spinal cord cells and motor neuron degeneration? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114826
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hello anti-vaxer! Oh how we’ve missed you!
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Missed you too, Hannah.
btw, why are people here so interested in vaccinating someone else’s child? It amazes me how hard drug companies try to legislate products on the public. Cigarette companies tried to sell their products to kids, but never went this far.
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I don’t care if people don’t vaccinate their children, as long as they only let them mingle with other non-vaccinated children and don’t take them out in public places.
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Are you afraid that your vaccine won’t work?
Our neighbor’s child was vaccinated a week before school began, instead of waiting for the county health bus, and the free shots. As a result, she gave measles to her kindergarden class, and it spread like wildfire through the school. Seems like vaccinated kids “shed” the virus for 21 days, according to the U.S. Department of Health.
Too bad they don’t warn grandparents, who suddenly get a crop of shingles every school year around vaccination time. Her mom, who was a nurse, lost her job with the county.
I would definitely want all the healthy, unvaccinated kids playing together, instead of having to deal with all those vaccinated kids with 20% more allergies, asthma, and God knows what.
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Sorry but Im calling bullshit. Your whole story is full of holes, for a start babies are vaccinated from birth so their immunity would fight off any exposure to the measles (maybe a couple might have a very mild case, but a whole school, definetely NOT) and even if you live in an area where they dont provide MMR vaccines till kindergarden that still doesnt explain how the rest of the school got measles because presumably they would have been vaxed in kinder. And if they werent isnt this a prime example of why they should be.
And secondly the nurse would be required by law to be fully vaccinated (and thats a WHO guideline for health staff worldwide) and have them up to date, meaning she also would be immune to measles.
And thirdly if there was an outbreak of shingles at a certain time every year, epidemiologists would strongly reccomend booster shots for these elderly people. This is what would happen in all first world countries so unless you are living in Sudan or Somalia, your story is BS.
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and fourthly – have 20% more allergies and asthma? Utter BS.
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Your children are healthy because of the parents that vaccinate!
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“Are you afraid that your vaccine won’t work? ”
I know what you mean. It’s like when I was speeding through town last week and some woman hurled abuse at me at the traffic lights. She soon shut up when I shouted back “are you afraid your seat belt won’t work?”.
Showed her.
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Wow, you just make things up as you go along. Since only rubella is able to shed from the MMR vaccine (except in breastfeeding mothers), how could a vaccinated child spread measles? You probably read that it could shed for 21 days and just assumed measles shed and then made up this story, didn’t you?
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Because apart from putting my newborn baby at risk, your unvaccinated child also puts at risk anyone unable to be vaccinated, auto-immune suppressed etc.
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In conclusion it’s clear that “vaccine shedding” is a nonsense phrase. The lack of accounts of children transmitting viruses to younger siblings and friends after vaccination is a dead giveaway. Whilst viral shedding is a reality we can be confident that:
■Viral shedding applies only to live virus vaccines and is significantly low, low risk
■Post vaccination viral shedding of rotavirus and varicella is detected in the stools for 4-6 weeks respectively. It’s of such low risk as to be of cautionary interest regarding immunocompromised individuals
■Genuine concern about viral shedding in these groups is managed with sound hygiene and avoiding contact with stools
■In rare cases of post varicella immunisation vesicular rash shedding may occur. Transmission is still unlikely
■The lack of viral shedding following MMR eliminates any concerns about transmission
■Claims of DTaP shedding and transmission are bogus
■Stories about whooping cough transmission from vaccine shedding are demonstrably false
■Stories of polio infection being a risk due to shedding are designed to scare
■Antivaccination lobbyists use false and incomplete information about shedding to create fear of vaccines/the vaccinated
■Shedding of LAIV is at markedly low concentration, short duration and transmission is dwarfed by seasonal influenza transmission
■Accurate information about the topic is drowned out by antivaccination sites and “mothering” forums making inaccurate claims
http://luckylosing.com/2011/10/13/vaccine-shedding-time-up-for-another-vaccine-myth/
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Because when other people don’t vaccinate themselves or their children it puts everyone else at more risk. It’s a public safety issue. Your choice affects others. Period.
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Here here, Rick!
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Where, where, amyahearn? You mean ‘hear, hear’.
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Please show link(s) to peer reviewed and/or published papers/lab studies, like I did.
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I refer you back to this article.
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You have a handful of studies, there is a whole medical specialty dedicated to the importance of vaccines. Actually 2. Immunology and Epidemiology.
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“why are people here so interested in vaccinating someone else’s child?”
Because your unvaccinated child is probably the one carrying measles, pertussis etc into my daughter’s school where I do reading once a week with my newborn (as yet unvaccinated) baby.
Keep your disease-carrying unvaccinated kids out of public schools, kindergartens, shopping centres, parks and playcentres, then I have no problem with your choice not to vaccinate. Unless you are willing to take some measure of community responsibility for supporting herd immunity, then your children and their infectious diseases have no place in said community.
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Exactly. If you’re so willing to buck the moral trend and responsibility society sets – then rack off from society.
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Just out of curiosity, if unvaccinated children are the ones carrying the diseases, how come most of the sick kids are the vaccinated ones, and all of the parents who are up in arms (and very emotional) are the ones who chose to vaccinate? If vaccinations are really that good, surely you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
The fact that you have a newborn baby living in a house with a vaccinated child means your baby has already come into contact with all those viruses, so I’m sure you have even less to worry about.
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you know very young babies can’t be vacinated right? and so they can catch the diseases from the unvacinated?
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“already come into contact with all those viruses” This does not make sense. Many vaccines contain viral or bacterial particles, not whole viruses, and those that are live vaccines (contain whole virus) are a weak virus, which only transiently multiplies before being eradicated by the immune system, not inducing a carrier state.
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“…how come most of the sick kids are the vaccinated ones…”
Did you know that the majority of the 1600 people who die on Australian roads every year were wearing their seat belts? Now, that could be because seat belts are worthless, or it could be because the vast, vast majority of people do wear seat belts. You choose.
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I’m interested in making sure kids I have never met also get fed. I must be a shill for Big Farmer
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I presume you’ve read the Australian Approved Product Information for this vaccine (pop over to the TGA website if not)? These have always been recommended exclusions for the vaccine. No, not because they are KNOWN to be harmful, it’s that there have not been safety trials done in these populations (for ethical reasons). Unless this is done, a drug cannot be recommended for this population. In the same way, nearly every drug PI excludes pregnancy, simply because there’s no way to test it.
In the event of a drug clinical trial, it is usual to exclude conditions which may be confused with adverse reactions – if you get a rash following a vaccine, is it due to the vaccine or due to a flare up of your allergies? Exclude people with allergies and it becomes clearer. That doesn’t automatically mean that the drug is harmful in that population. Linking trial population exclusions to unconfirmed deaths is not very scientific.
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No it doesn’t, but it does mean that for people within this cohort the vaccine has not been tested. So, when it is rolled out to everyone, it is unknown how people within these groups will react. As a mother of children with a strong family history of allergies and auto-immune disorders, this concerns me a lot.
The system for monitoring and reporting reactions is also under desperate need of improvement. There are too many stories of parents who have tried to report a reaction to a Dr and have been told that it is just a coincidence or it couldn’t possibly be related as it isn’t listed on the manufacturers list of possible adverse reactions (compiled from the trials conducted on a select, healthy group!). How do they really know without further investigation?
And it thoroughly irritates me that we no longer have the choice of splitting the vaccines in Australia and that the Government has adopted a one size fits all and ‘all or nothing’ approach to our vaccination program. If vaccines were able to be split and delayed there would be a large group of so called ánti-vax’parents who would in fact vaccinate.
For the person asking about the whooping cough vaccine – the University of NSW did a study last year which showed that the bacterium has evolved and that the vaccine now only protects against two of five strains. Not a reason to stop vaccinating against it, but certainly a reason for more research’and for more parents to be made aware that their vaccinated child with a bad cough may in fact have whooping cough and perhaps shouldn’t be sent to school or childcare to spread it around even further.
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We have to find new ways of communicating this to people. I live in an area where lots of people do not vaccinate. A couple of very good friends of mine have not, and here’s the thing: they are not arrogant people, they are not selfish people, nor are they stupid. Some might call them hippies (but by those standards, so am I). I know these people have at times been patronised and even abused by their doctors. As a strategy to convince someone to change their mind on something so important, that’s pretty crap.
For some reason, they have been persuaded by the likes of Meryl Dorey, but left unmoved by the bucketloads of actual science available. I think to achieve real change, health authorities need to work on a new way of approaching such parents.
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Couldn’t agree more BB – there has got to be a way to share the facts with such folk without alienating or patronising them. They have clearly been fed the same anti-vax scaremongering as many but do they have access to the facts in a non-aggressive form? Hope you’re well.
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*waves to CA* Hope you are well too
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Thank you for this, I have been arguing with parents at the playground about why they should vaccinate, now I’ll just send them this link!
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When did we stop trusting authority figures and start believing we know better?
If doctors – trained medical professionals who’ve studied for years – tell us time and time again how important it is to vaccinate children we should bloody well do it! If they told you you had cancer you wouldn’t disagree with them because a self-diagnosis on the internet told you otherwise.
Not to get too political here but it reminds me of the good old climate change debate where completely unqualified people continue to protests against trained professionals and experts.
Anyway, vaccinate your kids!
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I’ve also been thinking its a bit like the climate change ‘debate’, in terms of the anti-science sentiment. The fascinating thing is that, in my limited experience anyway, its the exact opposite group of people. All the people I know who have not vaccinated their kids would be passionately for action on climate change. I don’t actually know many climate change ‘deniers’, but I’m guessing not many fall into the anti-vacc category.
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That’s because both new-age types AND conservatives are anti-science…I’m not sure which group is worse…
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What?! You mean there’s something in between?
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Spot on. It’s usually tied to an adherence to the Naturalistic Fallacy. They think that ‘intervention’ by man is automatically a bad thing b/c ‘nature’ is a ‘perfect’ system. This notion is usually tied to a type of ‘spirituality’ (say deism) that neglects that it’s possible for us to replicate & even improve on ‘naturally’ evolved mechanisms. This attitude is usually accompanied by a liberal dose of cherry picking when it comes to risk assessment (ie: it’s clearly more dangerous to drive than it is vaccinate but most AV’ers I’ve ever met whack their newborns in a car at every opportunity), add a smattering of argument from ignorance & the modern trump card of people trusting their own experience (anecdote as/over data) and, well, here we are.
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I think because the healthcare system has altered in a way that makes it difficult for doctors to individuate care. I ended up having to find a systemic infection on my own after a surgery because the various doctors I went to couldn’t spend enough time with me to catch on to the fact that I did not have a psychological problem and was dealing with an actual infection. (Basically, I DID have to self-diagnose and ignore their diagnosis; fortunately, I have a BA in psychology, was interested most by health psychology, and thus could understand both medical jargon and good vs. bad medical science). Then I brought the diagnosis to the doctor, which was confirmed and treated.
I’m pro-vaccine, in general (and definitely in my own case!), but because there are cases where vaccines are not necessarily a good idea (eg. family or personal history of reaction), it is necessary to also look at the matter case-by-case. It is almost always a good idea to vaccinate, but it isn’t always a good idea to vaccinate, and if doctors do not have sufficient time to look at cases individually, the individual has to try to do it him/herself. And that’s where trouble can come in – individuals who have no choice but to decide for themselves, but do not have a sufficient medical background to make the best decision. If doctors could sit down with their patients long enough to decide, on a case-by-case basis, if each vaccination is a good idea for the patient or not and then explain it to said patient, vaccination would go up. Yes, there would still be people who refuse for reasons I don’t understand, but others could trust what the doctors are saying.
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Great article, thanks MM:) and for what it’s worth I put more faith in the author of this article than I do in Jenny McCarthy, who basically seems to be looking for someone to blame for her sons autism:(
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Whilst I appreciate the points being presented here, I don’t like the broad statement that “few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines”. Having read nearly all of the review (still reading it!), it is stated that “for the majority of cases (135 vaccine-adverse event pairs), the evidence was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship” – which means they were able to show there is or is not a causal relationship for only 23 out of 158 vaccine related events. The review states that it is inaccurate to interpret the report as saying “because the committee did not find convincing evidence that the vaccine does cause the adverse event, the vaccine is safe”. Therefore, saying that “few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines” is what was concluded by this particular review is actually contradictory to what is summarised by the review and to the purpose for which the review was commissioned. I feel that by saying “few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines” people are being mislead to believe that the incidence rate of adverse effect to vaccines is very low, or that because this review did not find casual relationships for all adverse affects that all vaccines are safe to use, which differs greatly from what is said in the review and what the review was commissioned to prove.
Please note I do agree that autism is not caused by MMR; this has been proven over and over. Nor am I anti-vaccinations. I just disagree with the presented conclusion of the review.
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Hi Guest, you’re right that the IOM report is long, complex and doesn’t say outright that vaccines are 100% safe. We simply can’t say this in science because nothing is 100%. Even so, the last line of the abstract does say, “However, for the majority of cases (135 vaccine-adverse event pairs), the evidence was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship. Overall, the committee concludes that few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines”. From http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/Adverse-Effects-of-Vaccines-Evidence-and-Causality.aspx
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Yeah, I have a question.
Are some vaccinations produced using an egg protein? If so, what are the ramifications for kids with egg allergies?
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Sometimes a skin test is done prior to the vaccination to see if the child will react. This isnt done very much anymore. Otherwise, age-appropriate immunization material containing the lowest amount of egg proteins should be chosen, then a 1/10 dose should be given followed by a 30 observation period in a medical setting fully equipped to treat any possible reaction.
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Hi Anon today
My son has had a bad reaction (as opposed to an allergic reaction) uncooked or partly cooked egg whites in the past (no problem with well-cooked egg whites or the yolk) and I brought this up with his doctor when it was shot time. She looked into it with the manufacturer and postponed the shots until she was satisfied that there was nothing to worry about. There was no problem with any of the shots he received.
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Is it just the flu vaccine that’s cultured in chicken eggs/embryos, or are there others? If so, what do parents do for children with severe feather/egg allergies?
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Jenny McCarthy – may be anti vax but happy to pump her face full of Botox…go figure
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Agreed! The toxin to top all toxins! She’d have some lame comeback that she wasn’t doing it to her kids though. What a hypocrite!
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She also doesn’t mind the odd cigarette…
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and sleep with Jim Carey….. shivers!
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No doubt it’s organic Botox, without any of the toxins…
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Botox without the toxin, wouldn’t that make it water
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or homeopathy…
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Dr Rachel has some FANTASTIC entries regarding the proof of the uselessness of homeopathic remedies on her blog
http://scepticsbook.com/
Bring on a MM article about it, please, please, please!!!
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Ben Goldacre also has some awesome ones in his book. I second that suggestion – would LOVE something about homeopathy….
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Oh oh – I second that. Homeopathy is one of my fave topics to debate on. I’m a science writer too so lovin’ this vax debate too.
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It is a hot topic at the moment as last week it came to light that a deal had been struck between Blackmore’s, Australia’s most prominent manufacturer of snake oil, and the Pharmacy Guild of Australia (NOT pharmacists – most are outraged) who would have pharmacists recommending rubbish when customers had certain prescriptions filled.
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Yes! I couldn’t believe the Pharmacy Guild would do that – thankfully they have now retracted the deal with Blackmore’s.
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That would make it Bo!
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And happy to pump her boobs full of silicone!
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Fantastic post.
The amount of pseudo-science that (lots of average, normal) people genuinely believe is scary. Which leads me to my request/question. MM, please ask Rachel Dunlop to do a post on alternative therapies. Particularly the logical fallacies people use to justify them.
My friend has a brain tumour.Long story short. Radiation has failed to shrink it. He and his family are at their wits end and feel that since “conventional” medicine isn’t offering enough answers they’re going to try the “alkaline diet”. I know it is basically rubbish…but find it hard to argue that to them. In fact I try not to, because I am not a good debater, and feel that my ineffectiveness at explaining to them will just confirm to them they’re right. All I do is seek assurances they’ll not stop the radiation therapy and speak to their doctors about this alternative treatment. These people are very rational and quite intelligent. Scary.
Anyway, I guess my point is that pseudo-science is everywhere, so rational thinking needs to be spread too. More articles by Rachel PLEASE!!
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There’s that old adage – “We have a name for alternative medicine that has been proven to work. It’s called ‘medicine’.”
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Yes Trixie
That is in one of Tim Minchin’s awesome songs.
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How do you know the alkaline diet is rubbish? I have actually been doing that diet myself after years of feeling exhausted and unwell. I have more energy than I can believe and actually bounce out of bed in the morning! Don’t knock it till you try it!
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Yes, but I don’t think you have a brain tumour you are trying to cure!!
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In their case I think it’s called clutching at straws….
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Yes Guest. Maybe I need to be more specific. I think the alkaline diet as a cure for cancer is rubbish. I have no doubt eating a diet rich in fruit and vegetables has given you more energy.
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Actually my grandfather had a very serious pancreatic cancer and the doctors said it really wasnt looking good at all, He completely changed his lifestyle to an alkaline diet and was surfing every morning at the age of 78 within 2 years of the diet. It might seem mystical to you but maybe you should read up on it. If it saved my grandad it could save someone else. and believe me we were all skeptics in the beginning too!
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I have immunised my kids so dont attack me (although I do actually see both side – very hard decision AND so over the attack of parents on both sides who are just trying to do the best they can with the information that they have!) but there seems to be a common theme that so many people still get these diseases, sicknesses, etc yet they are immunised!!! Dont understand that.?.?. just saying… In nearly all the posts below say this, they blame a parent that hasnt immunised their kid – yet how come they still get it if they are? I am mainly asking not to throw some of you into a fit but how good is the vaccines if this occurs?? Genuine question…
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When I had my first child – my Mother-In-Law pulled me aside ( as she knows I can be a bit of a hippee!) and told me about how my husband had Whooping cough 3 times as a baby and Mother to Mother – eyeball to eyeball – heart to heart… I could feel and see her pain she suffered watching her beautiful baby in so much pain so I went ahead and immunised. But still stand by taht I can see both sides and I dont really have an answer but maybe its not a ‘one size fits all’ ???
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Hi Curious.
Unlees I’ve misunderstood your question, the answer to your question is in Myth 5.
You mentioned that ..”so many people stiil get the diseases, sicknesses…”. The fact is that relative to a population with no access to immunisation there are very few who get the disease post vaccination and even then it is usually less severe.
Whilst I agree that attack has no place in this discussion I make no excuse for the insistance that parents accept the science.This is not a debate. Immunologists over decades have spent their careers studying the effect of immunisations. Their conclusion is that immunisation is an overwhelmingly positive thing for individuals and populations. To argue otherwise is arogant and ill informed. (I’m referring not to you but the anti-immunisation lobby).
Cheers
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Thanks Caro, dont think I can actually explain what I am thinking haha… But I agree with your post, thank you… I am someone that can truly see both sides of the emotional side to it I guess.
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Hi Curious, I understand where you are coming from, but I think it has to do with a few things like ever changing viruses, and each person’s individual immunity from the vaccine. I don’t think it would be possible to make a 100% effective vaccine (yet) due to these kinds of variances.
My almost 3yo daughter, is getting over whooping cough right now. She is fairly freshly vaxxed yet she somehow caught it from day care (there were three other cases, all kids vaxxed that I know of) BUT all four of them had extremely mild cases of WC. They all had medication (which only makes them not contagious anymore, it doesn’t heal them) and got back to school, in around 3 weeks. My daughter unfortunately developed pneumonia as well so she was off for a bit longer and suffered from that. Not fun at all. Had they not been vaxxed, the likelihood is that their illnesses would have been much worse. In comparison, my husband had it two years ago and was off work and practically incapacitated for almost 8 weeks – and he had even had a booster!
I read a comment on another forum once that really appealed to me. (I’m paraphrasing here too) – “You wouldn’t send your soldiers to fight a war without some kind of weapon or defence system. Why send your kids to fight disease without some kind of defence system as well?”
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Good point re soldiers going to war with weapons… I hope your daughter is all well now.
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I don’t think it’s a very hard decision – decades of proven scientific study versus rumours, bad practice and ignorance. I know which one my mum chose.
It’s all very well to note that many diseases still exist (measles, mumps etc) but polio is one example that stands out – how many people in Australia now get polio? How many kids now die from diseases like measles? You have to look at this historically, socially and economically. How much money we save in health care costs because fewer people get these diseases and they get them less severely. Compare that to past rates.
Please jump onto google scholar and look up some peer-reviewed studies of vaccine effectiveness and the history of vaccines. They will help your understanding.
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“so over the attack of parents on both sides who are just trying to do the best they can with the information that they have!”
I’m sure it’s frustrating but what we have here is one set of people who, wanting to know how to maintain their car, speak to mechanics and read information written by auto engineers. On the other side we have people who prefer to get their mechanical advice from the ironing lady – because they trust her, for some reason, and she does own a car.
If the ironing lady tells them to put water in their fuel tank and wave a crystal over their worn out brake pads, they’ll do it – especially if the mechanic says to never, ever do those things. After all, mechanics have a vested interest in making your car un-roadworthy while ironing ladies have no such interest (though we should never seek their advice on ironing).
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Great article. My children have all been immunised but my eldest son had quite a bad dose of chicken pox at age 8. He got this because a local family – who didn’t believe in immunising their own children – had him around to dinner to entertain their three children who were all home from school with chicken pox. Obviously I didn’t know the children were sick but the parents deliberately invited my son because they knew he was immunised so “it didn’t matter”.
Time and time again I find that people who don’t “believe” in immunisation do so based on misinformation and myths and it is the rest of society that pays the price.
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People do some very strange things…
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Thanks for this article Rachel – I wish someone (I’m talking to you Nicola Roxon) would pay for an advertising campaign on TV so all these myths would be dispelled for everyone!
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Hi Liz, I agree. I know of parents who have had meetings with government health minsters both state and federal to ask them to conduct a pertussis awareness campaign. Kids are still dying from this disease and some of the problem lies with the very low rate of immunity in adults. Most of us don’t even know that our immunity wanes over time and that we need to get boosters.
As I mentioned in the article some governments are offering the booster for carers, parents and those at risk, but not all of them. I’m not in this group so for me to get a booster, I have to get a script for Boostrix then go and buy it from the pharmacy then go back to the GP to get it done. Surely when we’re in the grips of an epidemic it should be freely available and easy to access.
The government could certainly do a lot more.
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I want to know why adults immunisation records aren’t linked to medicare like the kids’ ones are.
I also really want to know though why people with a bullshit conscientious objection still get medicare and the maternity immunisation allowance.
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Don’t forget Council Immunisation Services! No script required, however there is a fee involved for the vaccine.
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Not here – I just rock up and they ask how old, get out the jabs required and go. I got the Whooping Cough/Tetanus/Diphtheria booster free on day 1 post natally, and my parents got their boosters free too at their GP. They had them sitting there waiting.
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Yes, sorry. We in SA don’t have funded Boostrix for anyone. We did for about 3 months at the end of last year, but alas, not any more…..
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When I was in hospital after having my first child our midwife was well into her 60′s and she told us she can remember the pain of whooping cough. She had it when she was THREE. Why would anyone want that for their children?
We had boosters when our son was born and boy did it hurt. My boyfriend is terrified of needles and still had the injection because he knows just how important it is, not for himself, but for babies and children who have not or are too young to be vaccinated. I got terribly sick for 24hrs afterwards but you know what I’d do it all over again every month if needed if it saved the life of one little baby.
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@Tutu – It’s great that you are sharing your story, but I feel I should include a more positive counter-comment too ; )
My husband and I got our boosters when our baby was born, and apart from a short pinch when we got the needle, I had only a slightly sore, raised spot the next day at the injection site. My son cried for less than 30 seconds when he received his shots (at 2, 4 and 6 months) and had no other symptoms. So it’s not always bad!
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Love this trixie melodian. I had a booster last year. Hardly felt anything. My arm was a little sore to touch for a couple of days but I would rather this 100 times over than a case of Whooping Cough!
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I have a 2 week old and have just found out that one of my friends hasn’t vaccinated her 3 kids. I couldn’t get a particularly logical answer out of her – she couldn’t even remember what sources had informed her decision, and the best reason she could come up with was something about how vaccination in childhood would put her kids at risk of suffering more serious complications/infections if they caught the diseases later in life.
We have only recently moved and this family has been a lifeline to us. I’m absolutely devastated – I feel betrayed that she didn’t tell me earlier, as well as devastated that I suddenly have to choose between our friendship (and my older child’s with hers) and putting my newborn’s life at risk. I’m going to move her vaccinations forward from 8 weeks to 6 weeks to minimise the risk but still. It’s an awful position to be in
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I can’t stand when parents judge each other over how we choose to bring our children up ie breastfeeding, stay at home mums etc… HOWEVER this topic of immunisation I am going to sound very judgemental!!! It should be mandatory for children to be immunised. I cannot understand how parents can put their children at risk by not doing it. I also feel its wrong for parents to have access to childcare if the child is not immunised. Sure, they may not get the child care benefit and have to pay full fee but I don’t believe that is enough. They are putting other people’s (who do they right thing and get their child immunised) children at risk also. Also, what is with the government paying an Immunisation Allowance? We are getting paid to do something that as decent parents we should be doing anyway… ugh, the whole subject makes me angry……now bring on the comments where what I am saying is soooo wrong…..
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I think when every credible medical study agree with vaccination I don’t believe it is judgemental to disagree with non vaxers. They are a selfish bunch of new age hippies.
I am still not clear on the rules regarding non vaccinated children being allowed at school, but I assume that they must be. I didn’t realise that non vaccinated children aren’t eligible for the childcare rebate either – and I agree that it’s a pity they are allowed there at all.
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It is illegal to refuse entry to any child at childcare or school because they are not immunised. But, if an outbreak of an illness occurs, non-vaccinated children are required to be kept at home until it is over. Non-vaccinated families are still eligible for the childcare rebate. There is an immunisation allowance given at 18months of age, still accessible for non-vaccinating families if they fill out a concientious objection form, signed by their doctor.
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“There is an immunisation allowance given at 18months of age, still accessible for non-vaccinating families if they fill out a concientious objection form”
Huh? If there’s a logical reason for this, I don’t understand it.
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The law in ths country supports individual choice in this matter. Although often presented otherwise, it is illegal for Centrelink to withhold payments to non-vaccinators. That payment should probably be called something else. But the signed concientious objection form means that all the issues and risks surrounding immunisation have been discussed with the doctor.
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It’s tragic, however, when individual choice means that a whooping cough or meningococcal outbreak causes a baby’s death. Individual choice should not supercede life or safety for vulnerable members of society. Unless there is a genuine medical contraindication, vaccines should be mandatory for entry into school and childcare.
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“I personally feel very uncomfortable about giving up personal choice and freedoms in the way you suggested..”
Even if it costs a child it’s life?
I personally, would have liked the freedom of going out without fear of my new baby catching WC for the first 6 months of his life. I didnt get that freedom because of anti vaccinationists. As herd immunity drops lower and lower, WC becomes more and more prevalent. Moreover, it is most contagious during the cattharal, or asymptomatic stage of the illness, meaning it can be spread without you even knowing you are ill yet.
Im terms of personal freedoms, vaccinatio n is not like other freedoms such as birth choices, breastfeeding vs. formula etc…that do not impact on others. Vaccination is a public health issue, and I reiterate that freedom should not supercede safety. When others choose not to vaccinate, vulnerable members of the community are at risk. Unfortunately, you must own your discomfort about my beliefs about vaccination freedom, just as *I* must own being uncomfortable about the fact that my new baby is at risk of catching VPD’s in this society of waning herd immunity.
There are rights. And there are responsibilities.
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Anonymous is me, Steph.
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Isnt it ridiculous? It is supposed to be a benefit and a reward for vaccinating, yet those who dont vaccinate can receive it by making up any old rubbish on their objection form. Drives me bonkers.
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No matter how me or you feel about non-vaccinators, I personally feel very uncomfortable about giving up personal choice and freedoms in the way you suggested.
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I can explain the immunisation allowance. There are two types of people who don’t vaccinate their kids. Parents who have made a conscious choice (informed or otherwise) and a large group of parents who just couldn’t be bothered or didn’t get round to it. For whatever reason, this group seems to be more motivated by the allowance and this is the group the govt is targeting. As this group has no objection to vaccinations, if they have to go to the dr to get the form signed they will probably just vaccinate their kid while they are there.
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That is so unfair!!!! Immunisation register!!!! Not non-immunisation register!!!!
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If your children have vaccination then how would a non-vac be of any harm to them. And NO it is NOT mandatory to have vaccination to be in school in the US.
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I think the difference between breastfeeding/stay at home mums/etc and vaccinating is that if people don’t vaccinate their own children they’re putting other children in the community at risk. There’s no danger to others if they choose to breast feed over bottle feed or stay at home instead of working.
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If your child is vaccinated, how is it at risk?
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Well, firstly, Vaccinations aren’t 100% effective, so even if someone has been vaccinated they still may get the disease (albeit a more mild version). Secondly, there are certain populations that can’t be vaccinated, such as babies who are too young for the vaccinations. Given that babies are fairly susceptible to disease, it can be quite dangerous when people around them aren’t vaccinated.
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Wow that scares me. I hope that if I had a baby in child care that the child care would tell me if there was a child who’s parents don’t vaccinate. I would pull my baby out. Whooping cough is deadly.
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Alexis, privacy laws prevent child care centres/kinders/schools from sharing information regarding imunised/non immunised children.
My son’s kinder group includes at least one non-immunised child (I only know because her mum openly discusses it). Very frustrating that
it’s not compulsory to be immunised when going into environments where children are the main ‘clients’.
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I don’t understand, if your child is vaccinated then why are you concerned about a non vaccinated child being in the same childcare? Apparently your child is bulletproof after being jabbed right? So why bitch and moan about another parent who chooses not to pump their kid full of chemicals?
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Hi Liz, nobody said a vaccinated child is bulletproof no.
But it’s the best we’ve got.
And what of the kids in child care with newborn siblings or pregnant mothers at home who can’t be vaccinated?
What about immuno-suppressed family members?
Non-vaccinated kids pose a danger to many people.
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Any one ever heard of sheading? We should be afraid of getting something from the ones who have been vac.
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There is nothing wrong with what you’re saying Bec – I completely agree! I wish it was compulsory too but then there are many other medical choices that we get to make that aren’t compulsory so I can’t imagine this will ever be. I agree that it’s a public health issue (like breastfeeding) that we need as many people as possible to do it for the sake of community health. We also need to understand that some children can’t be vaccinated (eg. young babies, immuno-deficient, sick children) and for that reason it’s even more important that the rest of us are!
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I don’t believe you. You are simply pushing the medical profession line …. and keeping GPs employed by pushing vaccinations.
The UK Government offers up to 100 000 pounds compensation for adverse problems from vaccinations. Why would they do that if they were all perfectly safe.
People stop being sheeple … think for yourselves rather than do what you are told with a vested interest
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We’re mostly in Australia. GPs have nothing to do with vaccinations. I would suggest the govt has money like that available for compo because they so rarely have to pay it. Got any figures??
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My daughter suffered an adverse reaction which left her in the RCH for 4 months and now nearly blind with ongoing problems. Over 35 countries offer compensation for adverse reactions including even NZ. Australia is way behind but they have at least done a report into it. Search for Heath Kelly on google and read his report – there are adverse reaction which are life crippling but not common that is why you don’t hear about them. It is certainly no fallacy that is being ignorant.
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I just asked my sister about this as she works in the NHS. It’s a complete fallacy.
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It is no fallacy. Search google for no-fault compensation schemes and you will see nearly every non-third world country has one except Australia. Your sister needs to check her facts.
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Yes you do sound judgmental. When you have an autistic child, please feel free to have an opinion.
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my son is autistic, but i’d much rather have him this way and alive than dead from a preventable disease. Vaccines do not cause autism.
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Amen. My baby died (not of vaccine related or preventable illness) I’d take her with autism any day, thanks.
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Mama Mia very biased . Check your facts and talk to someone with a vaccine injured child . Also look at some recent studies out of Germany that have found vaccinated children to have far more illness then unvaccinated . I’m happy to say Im an unvaccinated 32 year old with 2 unvaccinated children 6&8 . Both parents with science medical backgrounds. Not one of us ever needed antibiotis or any trips to the Dr. All I can say is my children and I enjoy great health and yes it’s a personal decision . I encourage everyone to look at both sides of the science ! And not be pushed by fear one way or the other
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Illy, everything in the mamamia post has been peer reviewed and therefore is not ‘pushing’ fear.
I am proud to say that I have two fully vaccinated children who, like your unvaccinated children, have never required antibiotics. Saying that vaccination means a child will get sick is like saying missing one meal makes a person anorexic. I hope my children’s vaccination-induced immunity is enough to protect your children as you have left them unprotected. Seat belts are mandatory and legislated for, yet are known to cause injury; however the benefits far outweigh the risks. In my view, it should be the same with immunisation.
In addition to my comments to Illy, I wish to say that I have an autistic nephew. It has never crossed the mind of any of our family to blame it on immunisation. We saw what we now know to be ASD-type behaviour from him from birth. That the myth that austism is caused by vaccination is still perpetuated by anti-vaccinationists is abhorrent to me.
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I have an autistic child. It started from birth, yes autism us genetic but babies are vaccinated from birth with hep b and my sons hep b had mercury in it. A combination of genes and environmental trigger to tip them over the edge. He is fully vaccinated but babies do not need hep b at birth, they need pertussis, but that is too dangerous to give then at birth. I’m sure if there were more parents with autistic kids there would be less pro vaccination. All is fine and dandy until it impacts on your life, if it doesn’t affect you no one cares.
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Both parents have science medical backgrounds? What are they?
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What a bogus report. Read the CDC website & you’ll see how inaccurate this “scientific” report is.
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My daughter has reactions just to antibiotics, there is no way in the world I would risk her life with even 1 of those needles.
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I didn’t even realise before I became a parent that some people don’t believe in vaccinations, I assumed everyone had common sense ?! Boy was I wrong.
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You don’t need to be smart to be a parent. I love how the anti-vaxers say how “healthy” they all are. I’m just as healthy and have not been sick in forever and I’ve had every vaccine out there practically. (I was in the army-they vax for all stuff!) Don’t these people know how dangerous whooping cough and measles and polio are??? As far as autism-kids that used to be diagnosed with mental retardation are now diagnosed with autism. The rate of dx. of mental retardation has decreased about the same as autism has increased. Hmmmm….. me thinks that there just might be a connection……
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I read a report recently (http://health.usnews.com/health-news/managing-your-healthcare/policy/articles/2011/01/05/chickenpox-vaccine-cuts-hospitalization-rates–study) which investigated just how much good the Chickenpox vaccine did -in the USA alone-::
::begin quote::
According to the Pediatrics study, the benefits of even the one-dose vaccination program translated not only into less illness and suffering, but monetary savings as well. During 2009, chickenpox vaccination resulted in savings of more than $1 billion in medical and societal costs, mostly because parents did not need to stay home from work to care for sick children, Lopez said.
::end quote::
That’s
*one year
*one vaccine
*one country
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So, so happy that Mia and team continue to spread the word about the importance of vaccination but a little disheartened that vax vs. non-vax is still an issue in our society.
Thank you for posting correct information by a reputable doctor. I am by no means a doctor, but try my hardest to cease the perpetuation of vaccine related myths on a variety of forums. I must be doing something right, as a gaggle of anti vaccinationists are so peeved by my relaying of information that they have told me they would like to give me a vaccine enema, and administer a variety of poisons into my body…yanno, just like I do to MY OWN children! (Eyeroll). What they dont seem to understand is that I have lost a baby to stillbirth, and I will be damned if I will allow myself to lose another child, especially from a disease that is thoroughly preventable. Hopefully these clear, concise points from the article will drive home some sense into the anti vaccinationists.
Vaccines save lives. Delaying or eschewing them altogether is a recipe for disaster that will see measles, mumps, rubella, polio enter our community again. You’ll see babies born with Congenital Rubella Syndrome. You’ll see teenage boys rendered sterile from mumps. We are already seeing newborn whooping cough deaths. A 7 day old baby has recently died from Meningococcal in the suburb next to me. Tell, me, anti vaccinationists: How on Earth is the death of a baby from a vaccine preventable illness better than “pumpin’ them dun full o’ toxins?”
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For daily, and scary “OMG How Could They Believe That” moments, have a look at #StopAVN on twitter
https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23StopAVN
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I remember that enema comment on WENEVET…
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Brisbane just had it’s first case of diphtheria in may this year. The young woman’s friend had been to sth aftrica, brought back diphtheria unknowingly as she was vaccinated and passed it on to her unvaccinated friend, who died in hospital.
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I linked that story on a group’s board on Facebook, Faybian, after someone said that Diphtheria had been eradicated and there hadn’t been any cases recently. So I googled diphtheria – Brisbane and linked the story. The response? “Oh, I am talking about here, where I live. That has nothing to do with me”. Sigh.
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Grrrrrrr…..words fail
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The people that conduct these studys are often the people profiting from the vaccinations.
As for those expressing their opinions about the links between vaccinations and autism please consider how it feels to have a sick child, a mothers intuition and the god given right to be angry and the need to place blame because their child is suffering.
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I loved this article. My brother got whooping cough last year, even AFTER he’d been vaccinated. Why? Because according to our doctor, less parents were getting their kids vaccinated in our area, because of the whole ‘vaccinations cause autism’ rubbish, so whooping cough had poked it’s ugly head up around the area. I’m not a mum or anything, but i was still angry. I just think parents who don’t vaccinate their kids are incredibly selfish.
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This is rubbish, your brother got whooping cough because the vaccine is ineffective due to then changing it from a whole cell vaccine to an acellular vaccine. Aussie scientists discovered this fact and it was reported int the daily telegraph. Your doctor should perhaps read the medical news?
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Gawd I hope my dr isn’t relying on the tabloid telegraph for latest scientific research…instant dismissal…
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Yes, I agree. If he doesn’t have enough initiative to look for the study in a medical journal after seeing it reported in the news, he should definitely be dismissed

Just in case, I found the link to the study for him. It took me 5 minutes using google
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/16/2/08-1707_article.htm
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Dr Google strikes again!
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Yes, because the fact that the study can be found on google completely discredits research supported by the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia, and all these scientists and specialists hard work right?:
“Author affiliations: University of New South Wales, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia (J. Kurniawan, R.P. Maharjan, W.-F. Chan, R. Lan); University of Sydney, Sydney (P.R. Reeves, V. Sintchenko, G.L. Gilbert); Westmead Hospital, Westmead, New South Wales, Australia (V. Sintchenko, G.L. Gilbert); National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Bilthoven, the Netherlands (F.R. Mooi).”
FYI – false dr google information is usually not published in medical journals, nor credited as to who supported or carried out the “diagnosis”, but I guess I could go to my university, look up whichever journal that study would be published in, scan and upload to make you feel better?
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It is worth mentioning that some childhood diseases can effect a person’s health well into adulthood, and even cause premature death. My father contracted diptheria as a child. It caused damage to his heart, and caused him to die of a ruptured aorta at the ripe old age of 28.
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Nicki, my grandfather had a very similar experience and it affected his physical health for the rest of his life including his general health (robustness), operations on his heart (which were experimental and very risky in those days) and even his fertility.
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Great article!! How do you go about making it mandatory reading for every new parent in the Byron bay area?? They have the lowest immunisation percentages in the country!
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Making it mandatory takes away freedom of choice, and last time I checked, Australia was not a communist country.
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Making vaccinations mandatory does not equate to a communist state. There are hundreds of thousands of rules and regulations that you are required to comply with every day. For example, the law provides that you cannot legally drive without a driver’s licence, yet I doubt you would argue that unduly impedes your freedom.
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Being licenced does impede our freedom. It is wrong, but because you are a slave you can’t even see it. Don’t you dare force me to vaccinate my children if I think it is wrong.
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mandatory reading.
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Hmmm. By Cindy’s reckoning, Australia is a communist state because wearing a seatbelt is mandatory and legislated. I bet Cindy has no objection to wearing a seatbelt every time she rides in a car.
Though vaccination is not a guarantee that the vaccinated person will not contract the disease, it is known to significantly reduce the severity of those diseases and make them easier to treat. That’s more than good enough for me! A course of antibiotics for pertussis (whooping cough) versus death? I’m going to choose the antibiotics every time.
If only articles like this were provided to every expecting parent and covered by midwives at pre-admission appointments. Think how much unnecessary suffering could be prevented! I’m sure many remember the poor 4 week old baby who died if whooping cough a few years ago – all because of ‘conscientious objectors’ not vaccinating a child the baby came into contact with.
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I hope this article does something to change the minds of the anti vaxers, but unfortunately I doubt it, they will remain ill-informed idiots who fly in the face of every credible scientific study. They are so smug they make my blood boil, they think they know something that the rest of us don’t. They rely on ‘herd immunity’, and I would love to know what happens if they want to travel to a country where some of the diseases they refuse to be vaccinated for are rife – would they be so confident then? They know they can get away with not vaccinating here because the majority of people are.
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I’ve gotten into “debates” with some on a couple of forums and they always always give links to various dodgy sites. I always come back with, I dont give any credibilty to anything regarding vaccs to sites ending with .com.
If you have any links from WHO, .gov or .edu sites saying vaxing is bad I will be happy to read them. Unsurprisingly I have never recieved a reply OR links to any reputed sources. They are full of bullshit IMO.
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It is not that vaccines are bad it is just that people should be informed that they carry risks. Search Heath Kelly. He is an Australian who has recently submitted a report to the fed govt about the need to compensate those when vaccines have adverse reactions…and they can
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Anyone can submit a report about anything to the government in a democracy. Doesn’t mean it holds weight.
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ClaireC you are a sheep! Stop doing as you are told, look out side the box and talk to some people who’s lives have been changed forever because of potentially harmful vaccinations.
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Part 3: Minor edit required
“Things such as anti-freeze, mercury, formaldehyde, aluminium phosphate, human fetal tissue, monkey kidney and lung cells, and most famously mercury”
You list mercury twice.
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The metal so nice they named it twice … fixed. Thanks Idle.
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Also, the control group testing that is described as ethically-challenged has been done with the polio vaccine when it was introduced in the 1950s in the US.
One group of children were injected with the vaccine, another with a placebo and a third again with nothing.
The results of those tests were what got parents to line up to be immunised!
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Hi An Idle Dad, thanks for that. Would you like to be my sub-editor?
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I assume sub-eds get a $100K type package plus super plus bonus?
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Does anyone know where I can go looking for my medical history? As in, what vaccines I’ve had and how many doses? I’ve changed GP’s quite a few times since I was a baby and have no idea where the paperwork is that kept track of it all.
Thanks.
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the best way would be to have your immunity tested and get boosters for those you have no immunity on or low immunity with
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Medicare should have a record
they certainly do for my daughter- and she has lived in four different states. Worth a phone call.
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Recently I went to get my third course of Gardasil. My GP asked me when was the last time I got a booster for anything other than that, and as I genuinely couldn’t remember having any shots for the past four years he just gave me the MMR and Pertussis/Tetanus/Diptheria boosters there and then. Though do speak to your own GP first.
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How much does it cost to get boosters? I am a NZer and have never been vacinnated in Australia (I got all my shots as a kid, and a bunch about 7 years ago, but I can’t remember what and so I’m probably due for boosters…
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Your current doctor can order a blood test to determine your immunity to such things as MMR (measles, mumps, rubella), chicken pox, polio. The level of antibodies present will give an indication of previous vacc/ past exposure or lack there of.
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There is an Australian Vaccination Register. It only registers those vaccinations given under the age of five. The childhood vaccinations are all reported to the Register which is a division of Medicare.
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If it has been that long – since childhood- it won’t do your body any harm to just have the booster vaccines anyway. If your immunity tests come up negative, you are just going to have to have another doctor visit, and another lot of needles anyway.
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I had a blood test when my husband and I started to try and conceive to make sure all immunizations were up to date.
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Agree, this is a wonderfully factual,honest and impressive article. It’s brilliant to have the myths exploded in such a straight-forward manner. It too shal be passing this one on to as many people as I can.
On a personal note, we in our family have endured the terror of pertussis( whooping cough) in a baby under 6 mths. I would not wish that experience on my worst enemy. I firmly believe that we have a right to be stupid with our own health by our actions, but we DO NOT have the right to endanger public health, the lives of others, by practicing controversial beliefs which contravene what’s best for society.
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I totally agree with you. We too watched with horror at what our hospitalized newborn went through suffering pertussis at 4 weeks of age. Such a first world problem that could so easily be fixed if the misinformed only realised the true consequences of their actions. Wishing your child a future of good health.
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Thank you, the same to you.
PS. They jailed Typhoid Mary…not that I’m advocating incarceration for anti- vaxers, but some consequence for reckless endangerment, not only to their own children but to others, seems appropriate, IMO.
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Im a Registered Nurse and I see loads of sick kids. I dont have kids of my own, but I plan to vaccinate them, just like my mum vaccinated me. My mum is also a Registered Nurse, so I got every needle known to man as a child
I guess the point to make is that vaccination is more than just about your child and their best interests, its about trying to irridicate disease and make a more suitable environment for children and where vaccination doesnt exist, disease makes a come back – the far north coast of NSW has had several outbreaks of whooping cough because of the decline in rates of vaccination.
Getting sick costs money – getting medications, going to the doctor’s, calling in sick to work… A point to note aswell, all staff who work in NSW Health are all vaccinated. Most Police are vaccinated for Hepatitis aswell.
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I’m a registered nurse (and endorsed immuniser, so I’m not unbiased) in Qld and we have to at least have our hep b immunity checked and a bcg/tb. We are encouraged to get flu shots each year. I’ve looked after young kids with whooping cough and it ain’t pretty.
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Great article, thanks for a balanced scientific view.
I just hope Rachael will be around later when the comments are filled with anti-vax cr*p. There will be many, they will be lengthy and they will be filled with scientific jargon.
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Something tells me she will be
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is someone feeding her chocolate and massaging her shoulders?!
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The article is good, but I just thought I’d say (and I don’t know if this has already been mentioned) that under point six, there is a mention of the influenza type B (Hib) vaccine- the Hib vaccine is not for influenza (the virus that causes the flu) but for Haemophilus influenzae- a bacteria that causes meningitis in children among other things.
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Hi Caitlin, you’re right. I thought I changed that in the final version but somehow it made it through. Thanks for picking that up. Maybe Rick can correct this if we ask him nicely..
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This is a great article. I’m a GP and hubby is a paediatrician and between us we see the problems of kids not being vaccinated. We also have 3 kids which are all fully vaccinated. Vaccines are so well researched and what we do know is that the benefits of them far outweigh any risks (eg a sore arm, slight fever for a day). People that are concerned about the risks should visit a third world country where so many children are sick from and dying of these diseases. They might then appreciate why vaccines exist and what they can prevent. You would never want to see your kids suffer like those children do. People here take it for granted that their kids won’t get sick because there is so much less disease because of vaccination. I am going to print this article to give to any of my patients that are reluctant or unsure.
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As a GP I am surprised at your ignorance. I believe in vaccinations but to tell your patients the worst thing that can happen is sore arm or fever is ignorant and negligent at best. My daughter developed Stevens-Johnson syndrome after her vaccination. She spent 2 weeks in ICU at RCH followed by 9 weeks in the burns unit. She is now partially blind and suffers other health issues. My doctor said the same as you and I am seeking legal advice. Do not make false claims when you are dealing with other people’s lives. The govt iseven considering a no-fault compensation scheme for adverse reactions to vaccinations. I am happy to email you this feedback from Nicola Roxon’s office to prove this. People slso take it got granted that the vaccinations will
do no harm to their children just like I did. All is ask for is the truth from people like you to make the right decision.
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“As a GP” lol, don’t they teach you about grammar at all during med school?
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BRILLIANT!!! Thanks very much indeed for this.
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My take is that anti-vaxxers think their kids are a bit more special, a bit more loved than most. We are very blessed to live somewhere vaccination is available and affordable. People in 3rd world countries would not believe some Australians reject the opportunity to have their kids vaccinated. They’d think, ‘what fools’ and they’d be right.
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This.
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And of course, that all doctors/nurses/immunologists and indeed anyone with any sort of science degree are in the pocket of big pharma.
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I had that one thrown at me the other day – that all universities and therefore anyone who studies at one has been biased by the pharmaceutical companies. I was genuinely gobsmacked. In my 7 years studying health science I never once heard “and brought to you by….”. I was told that my degrees are “worthless” and so was my opinion. Shocking the ignorance that some people have.
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Eurgh I feel for you.
I study history and I get the same sort of comments. Not pharma companies of course… that would be weird… but I get many people telling me that I’m in the pocket of ‘the elite’, whoever they are, which would actually be kind of nice. I need some cashola for my upcoming phd!
Take solace in the fact that they will one day get sick and have to take advice from someone with your skills and knowledge and they’ll have to eat their words.
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Ha, I wish we actually got paid by these mythical elite and pharma companies!! In one sense they are probably correct, these big companies probably do make donations to universities, as do lots of companies. But it doesn’t buy an opinion or an education. We get taught scientific method, evidence based practice, the medical model etc etc. and all that teaches you to view things critically, not biased!
Good luck with the Phd. I have alot of respect for those who seek the floppy hat. I’m too chicken, but maybe one day
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I have a friend who did not vaccinate her children and who SERIOUSLY thought that the reason her kids never got any child hood illnesses/diseases etc was because they’d inherited her phenomenal immune system.
She lived on a farm, her kids didn’t really mix with any other kids – the millisecond they started mixing with other children (when the oldest went to school) they, and she caught everything that’s going around!
I am old enough to know people who had measles as a kid (she’s deaf as a result); mother had rubella (learning impaired); a lecturer had polio as a child… a man who discovered he was infertile due to having mumps as a teenager…
I vaccinated both my kids.
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