.
The media has given plenty of attention to parents who don’t immunise their children; indeed we’ve debated it here and here (just do it do it do it).
But what about adults. And teens? Did you know the whooping cough vaccine wears off after 5-7 years?
I found this out the hard way when our eldest son caught whooping cough in the current outbreak going around schools in NSW. In fact the parents of newborns in areas with low vaccination levels have been urged to keep their babies away from shopping centres and large gatherings where they could become infected.
According to a vaccination study released in March by The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) only 11% of adults are vaccinated for pertussis (whooping cough). The rate is much higher among parents of newborns as some states like NSW, SA and WA offer a FREE booster shot for new parents, grandparents and carers. As whooping cough is very contagious, 95% of the whole community (adults and children) are required to combat it. So, unless everyone gets boosters on time, herd immunity is always breached.
Why is whooping cough so serious?
The spread of whooping cough has killed seven newborns in the last two years and over 5,500 cases of whooping cough have been reported in NSW so far this year. It can just be an annoying cough for adults and older children but for babies it can sometimes be life threatening. Severity is closely related to a baby’s age. Newborns and premature infants are at greatest risk. Whooping cough in babies can lead to:
- Apnoea (pauses in normal breathing)
- Pneumonia
- Frequent vomiting
- Feeding problems leading to weight loss
- Seizures or brain damage when breathing problems, heart failure or pneumonia interfere with oxygen getting to the brain.
- Very low blood pressure which can lead to failure of other organs.
- Some babies need treatment in hospital and some require treatment in intensive care. Older children don’t usually have life-threatening infections and only rarely require hospitaliasation.
THE SYMPTOMS
- Whooping cough starts like a cold with a blocked or runny nose, sneezing, a mild fever and an occasional cough.
- The cough gets worse and severe bouts of uncontrollable coughing develop. Coughing bouts can be followed by vomiting, choking or taking a big gasping breath which causes a “whooping” sound. The cough can last for many weeks and can be worse at night.
- Some newborns may not cough at all but stop breathing completely and turn blue. Other babies have difficulties feeding or they can choke and gag.
- Older children and adults may just have a mild cough that doesn’t go away. In adults, the cough commonly lasts 5-7 weeks, sometimes longer.
If you missed 60 Minutes this weekend, you can watch the ‘Getting the Point’ story below:
Comments
299 Comments so far
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My sister developed chronic vertigo as a esult of her bout with whooping cough. We’re both in our 40s, so the immunization she had as a kid had probably run it’s course. Her immunized kids didn’t get it and 2 of them have chronic asthma.
People like the good “doctor” on 60 minutes make me wild.
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Everyone needs a jab. Maybe four of five jabs. Jab everyone, please!
I’ve been unwell for a couple of months now with whooping cough.
In mid-April I developed a runny nose, aches & pains and a low fever. And a cough. A horrible, jarring cough that came and went. I thought it was just a cold but after 5 days it wasn’t easing up, so I went to the doctor who said my cough was ‘a post-viral reaction’ and that fluids and bed-rest would sort me out.
A week later I hadn’t improved and a quick consult with Dr Google led me to suspect it was whooping cough. Numerous sites told me that I was probably at the end of my contagious period and that there really wasn’t anything to be done. Thankfully I hadn’t been out in public much during the contagious period (I was too unwell).
After a few more weeks I started feeling very unwell again so I went to a different doctor who told me that I’d almost certainly had whooping cough and it had caused a chest infection. (She didn’t do a throat swab to verify it 100% as my symptoms were so similar to those of whooping cough and it was beyond any sort of treatment anyway).
8 weeks after my first symptoms, I still feel run down and I still have a cough (albeit much better than it was).
I urge you to vaccinate your kids, vaccinate anyone else that is willing and able to be vaccinated, and at the very least, stay home if you have a cough!
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I contracted Whooping cough whilst on my third year teaching prac at a school in Tasmania. Although all the children were immunised, somehow I contracted it then spread it to my ENTIRE family! We were all so ill, for months the cough lasted, especially in my youngest daughter who was three and not fully protected by the immunisation schedule. I was not advised by the university to have any extra immunisations which I now suggest to every student. Whooping cough, hepA, B and C……good on you Mia for giving this issue a public outing!!
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I wish 60 Minutes would do a story featuring the families of children who have died or suffered terrible side effects after being vaccinated.
I wish the journalist showed us the extent of her professionalism by remaining objective throughout.
I also wish that every parent on here took the time to do their own, extensive, balanced research on vaccination and made up their mind based on that work.
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It is obviously tragic when a child suffers severe side-effects as the result of vaccinations. Yet you need to balance the possibility of one child experiencing these side-effects or, even death, with the illness and fatality a large breakout of a preventable disease such as pertussis could cause on society as a whole. Every parent should take the time to do their own research but it is sad when organisations such as the AVN support very biased reports, with some even claiming that Andrew Wakefield (the man who published the fraudulent studies connecting vaccinations with autism) is the victim of pharmaceutical companies. Parent’s should do their research, but they shouldn’t be influenced by organisations that present false information.
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Are you saying that sacrificing the life of one child is worth it to save a larger group?? I’d rather it not be my child.
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I think that’s a really unfair conclusion to take from what I wrote, I would rather no children die. Unfortunately some children will have an adverse (and potentially fatal) reaction to vaccinations. Some children, particularly newborns who are too young to be vaccinated, will also die from preventable diseases as they are unable to rely on herd immunity due to low vaccination levels. When it comes down to it, I would choose a smaller number of deaths over a larger number. And just as you’d rather your child not die or suffer an adverse reaction from vaccines, I’m sure you’d hope that they not die of pertussis or another potentially preventable illness.
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What if you do extensive, thorough, balanced research and come down on the side of vaccinations?
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That’s great. Then it’s your decision to make regarding your children and your family. Just like it is my job to decide for my family. Not my doctor’s. Not the government’s.
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And not pro-vaxxers who believe that what they think is ‘right’ is the truth for everyone!
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Do you trust mechanics or dentists or computer technicians – or anyone qualified to provide any service?
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Balanced?? Wtf? I read the tosh that masquerades for balanced research while studying for my degree. I do agree that there can be terrible side effects. These, however, pale, as far as the numbers/ratios go in comparison to victims of the wild strain of the diseases.
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Also, if you haven’t already read it, the Weekend Australian did a story on Saba Button, the girl who became brain damaged following her flu-vax, if you are looking for a story relating to children suffering side-effects after being vaccinated.
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Please remember that the flu-vax is a very different kettle of fish to tried and tested vaccinations. I believe it had about 5 days of testing before it went on the market and was pulled swiftly after so many reactions.
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Thanks Shaezy I should have mentioned that too
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I did read that, thank you.
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PS Amanda I hope you didn’t take any of my comments as being aggressive, I thought everything you said was completely reasonable, but I know these things often get lost in translation, especially over such an emotive topic. X
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As the parent of a little boy who is often very sick with asthma and allergies – things that I cannot immunise him against – I just can’t understand why you wouldn’t protect your child against those diseases that you can.
There are risks in everything that we do to ourselves and our children but you need to weigh up those risks against the probability of them occurring.
Also, I’ll take my advice from an actual medical professional. I’ve had others give me advice saying that my son is too young to have asthma medication and that I should try more natural remedies. I hate to think what might have happened to him if I had listened to them.
Also, why is it that the parents who choose to vaccinate their children are the ones being told to keep them at home? Surely it should be those who choose not to vaccinate that should be staying at home to protect the rest of us.
Heartbreaking stuff really and a reminder that (with a friend about to have a baby soon and another one pregnant) it’s time for me and my family to have our boosters.
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I have an unvaccinated boy who also has bad asthma and allergies, and we were once told by a medical person that if we vaccinated him his asthma/allergies would be much, much worse. My Dr cannot give me a guarantee that there will be no negative effects on his health if we did immunise…. he just says he should be fine, and for me that is not good enough. I don’t think enough long term studies have been done on the effects of vaccines on immune systems in general. My boy’s asthma/alleriges are already the result of an overload of toxins etc… The risks do not outweigh the benefits for me.
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Who told you that your sons allergies were the result of an overload of toxins? Was it a pediatrician, respiratory or allergy specialist? Did you have tests that proved that? What you’ve been told about asthma and vaccinations sounds very dodgy. My nephews both had asthma (one of them excema too), but they were fine. I’m not saying yours would, obviously your doctor can’t come up with an iron clad guarantee, but no one can. The only thing certain in life is death after all.
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No we have not had tests to prove anything other than to ascertain what allergies exist. My belief about environmental/diet toxins being a factor comes from my own observations of him when we undertook strict diet and environmental changes at home – asthma disappeared and skin conditions cleared. When certain foods/ environmental situations were re-introduced, these things re-occured with a vengence. I don’t need a battery of further tests to confirm that these things play a part, and I don’t see how that is dodgy. What I do think is dodgy is how ‘science’ and society in general discount things like food and environment in the overall picture of health. Alternative therapies and a wholistic view of life are often degraded as dodgy, but they have succeeded for us where western medicine has failed.
I may have a very different view of illness/health to the majority but that doesn’t make my reality any less of a truth than the pro-vax person’s is. I feel very angry at being called selfish (not by you but by some pro-vaxxers in general) when I am just a mother too trying to do the best for my child. People talk about the guilt they would feel if they knew they passed on an illness to another child, well, how would I feel if I went ahead and vaccinated my child and he suffered as a result of that? Do people really expect me to potentially sacrifice the health of my child so they can feel less anxious? We will never eradicate all illness, and yes death is a part of life, and risk is a part or life too.
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I agree that environmental factors including food are often neglected in an overall approach to our health.
What concerns me about your vaccination approach is that yes no doctor can say there will be no affects from vaccination. I bet I find a few doctors that would agree that as a asthmatic your child would be EXTREMELY ill and at risk of death if they got whooping cough. Just a thought.
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The only time science supposedly discounts things like food and environment is in the promotional literature of those who make a living from pseudoscience. If science really did discount these things, why did we remove lead from petrol? Why are we being warned about carbon pollution? Why are so many real medicines replaced with safer alternatives when they come along? Why are we reminded, often, about the benefits of fruit and veg and the the evils of trans-fats and cigarettes?
Reality isn’t a popularity contest or a matter of choice. I’s just reality.
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Anon, I do believe that a whole person approach can be very useful regarding people’s health. There are limits on both sides though. Most drs are a lot more receptive to their patients using alternative health services these days I’ve found, I’ve used alternative therapies myself.
My issue with toxins is, where do you draw the line? Everyday we breathe in petrol fumes and other pollution, wear synthetic clothing, are surrounded by chemicals of all sorts and are using mobiles, wireless internet etc. It would be interesting to see the effects if we removed or restricted the exposure of these things.
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Zinc, copper, iodine and a bunch of other things are known toxins – but they are also essential to good health. The word is used so liberally by alt-med supporters it’s lost its meaning in discussions like these. They chant “natural, natural” but demonise formaldehyde which is as natural as a banana – actually, more natural since the bananas we eat today are a far cry from their wild cousins.
Anti-vaxers are often so driven by conspiracy theory and anti-modernism, I’m surprised they aren’t scared to have computers in their homes. Haven’t they read about cancer-causing EMF?
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You say that your doctor cannot give you a guarantee that there will be no negative effects on your son’s health if you immunise him… however any medical professional will tell you that there is a much greater chance that he WILL contract whooping cough if you don’t immunise. I would think that would be a greater negative effect on your son’s health?! I don’t understand this argument at all.
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I suppose this is where our perceptions of risks and benefits differ.
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Can you doctor give you a guarantee you won’t choke on a sandwich or slip in the shower? Do you avoid these things as a result of your doctor’s reluctance to commit? Do you eat or drink at all given the inherent risks in doing these things?
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Risks? The most common cause of death of children in Australia? External causes lead by traffic accidents and assaults. Yes, mummy and daddy are probably responsible for killing more kids than almost anything else. Cancer is the next biggest killer of our kids.
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Yep. The risk argument is perhaps the most frustrating argument put forward as it underpins all other arguments but it’s so close to silly it’s difficult not to point and laugh.
Pregnancy is risky, childbirth is risky, the ride home from the maternity ward is risky (so is giving birth at home), breastfeeding is risky, not breastfeeding is risky, spoon feeding is risky, learning to crawl, walk and run are all risky… and so it goes on.
Life is risky. Everything has a risk attached. The only way to never risk a child’s health or life is to not get pregnant in the first place because everything that happens post-conception puts the child at risk.
The anti-vaxers are using the seemingly low risks of disease that have resulted from widespread vaccination as an excuse not to accept the almost infinitesimal risk of vaccinating their own children. As a result, they increase the risk of disease.
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Anon I guess that was my whole point around risks. No Dr is going to give you a guarantee that there will be no negative effects – that’s a decision that you need to weigh up for yourself.
Also there are lots of things in our lives that we do/eat/put-on-our-skin that we don’t know the long term effects of but we still do them don’t we? I don’t know if there will be any long-term effects of the asthma medication that my son is on but in the past it has kept him alive and that’s all I’ve got to work with.
My son has had some of the best medical care that my state has to offer and not once has anybody suggested that vaccinating him would be detrimental to his health.
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I respect what you are saying, KM. For us, alternative methods have worked and that is where we work from. The decision not to vax is not an easy one at all.
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I think your decision to vax or not to vax would become a whole lot easier if you were nursing a ward full of whooping cough children under the age of two. Tragic tragic stuff. Or a wardful of measles or smallpox or diphtheria etc for that matter. And that was the ‘ reality’ of our parents and grandparents and so on. As a parent of an asthmatic child I just cannot understand your decision to withhold vaccinations. And yes I have gone the alternate route with diet and environmental Issues too with much success. Plus my daughter has had severe reactions to fluvax and other meds. I still believe vaccinating is her best option. But then, I have nursed a ward full of whooping cough babies, and I have nursed many seriously ill with influenza etc so I have stared the diseases in the face and know their reality. I question harshly the qualifications of the ‘medical person’ who advised you against it for your child. I also suspect that perhaps your child is mildly asthmatic and thereof you have the luxury of worrying more about the very low risks of vaccinations and turning a blind eye to the greater and real risks related to the diseases they protect against.
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Addit: A luxury I don’t have knowing how sick my child gets with a mere chest infection, something that is easily treated.
Apologize for this sentence somehow disappearing off my comment above. Stoopid iPad typing I suspect.
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I had Whooping cough when I was 11, from there I developed a collapsed lung and pneumonia and was in hospital for a week. I would not want to wish that on anybody I still remember it now not being able to breath from coughing, but for a tiny newborn baby to have to go through the same is heartbreaking I am very pro vax and like everyone else cant understand those who dont do it.
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I agree with Mia. There is a ”however” though. There are risks to immunisation for some people.
I am one of them and I got Guillain Barre Syndrome from the Swine Flu Vaccine. It is a rare syndrome that PARALYSED my body and nearly my lungs. I had transfusions (thankyou to all that give blood!) and spent 6 months in a rehab home with old people to get better last year. I am a fit young 31 with no health issues.
So, immunisation risks are rare BUT real. I will still be immunising my newborn next week, but people have the right to make an informed choice with good information
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Hey Blaser,
I’ve also suffered from Gullian Barre Syndrome and it was the most horrible experience of my life. I feel so lucky that at least it’s a once off and I can make a full recovery. I hope you’re feeling much better now x
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This syndrome, though uncommon, can occur after any viral infection and is not related only to immunization. It can occur after the common cold.
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Yes, that is correct Fbm. I was in a trial study that identified this was the cause, so wasn’t just making a offhanded accusation towards immunisation.
Nora, I’m in great health now thanks for your kind concern
I agree it was horrible… I thought I was going to die and even though I was paralysed I was riddled with pain. It’s amazing to learn to walk again – I know I can do anything now. I am so grateful to have the opportunity to get better as well and it’s not ongoing. Glad you made a good recovery and to know (unfortunately) there are others out there – it was a very lonely time not ever hearing or knowing anyone with this type of condition before.
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This issue hits close to home as I am not able to have the whooping cough vaccine (I’m allergic) and so I have to rely on herd immunity. I had whooping cough once when I was about 12 years old and wouldn’t wish it on anyone – luckily as I was an otherwise healthy child I got over it (after a while) but I can’t imagine the effect it would have on a baby.
In my opinion people who choose not to vaccinate, for whatever reason, are as selfish as they come – if you don’t want to vaccinate your children, why should you reap the benefit of living in a society with herd immunity?
Not to mention that an unvaccinated child can pass on a deadly disease to a newborn too young to be vaccinated itself.
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I am a huge public health nerd and in my work and spare time love to read and research about it from a variety of sources. I am so thankful to live in a time where we have access to clean water, better sanitation and hygiene AND vaccines as they have all contributed enormously to improved health and life expectancy.
In April this year a 22y/o woman died of respiratory diptheria in the first case in Australia since 1993. So very sad and a reminder of the importance of maintaining high herd immunity.
http://www.agpn.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/37792/20110505_doc_Diphtheria-Qld-alert.pdf
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To see the anti vaccination people on there made me sick to my stomach. Especially to the part where being vaccinated will cause you to get Autism or an ASD.
I have an ASD. Even my doctor says it’s congenital that probably started shortly after conception.
I know in QLD it is/was law for your child to be vaccinated. If i had children I’d rather my child to be vaccinated because as the doctor said on that video (the qualified one) it’s like playing Russian Roulette.
Adverse reactions are RARE.
Did you know that NRL coach Wayne Bennett’s son Justin had a bad reaction to his first vaccination? he’s now physically and mentally disabled
Ive had the fortunate pleasure of meeting Justin on many occasions, he is in his 30s now, and he’s the nicest fellow and always wanting to chat.
It was a rare reaction, it’s 1 in 100 thousand or something.
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Yes, it is rare but when you get it from a vaccination totally debilitating. See my comments above
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So are the diseases
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Brain damage through whooping cough is more common than brain damage through immunizing your child.
Why do you think Polio is wiped out as a disease according to the WHO? Through immunization.
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I had the vaccine a few weeks ago. (paid for out of my own pocket).
My sister is pregnant, as are several friends.
I could never have forgiven myself if I got one of their children sick.
The fact it was tetanus etc.. was a big bonus! One small bit of pain for lots of protection
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Mia – whilst I appreciate your commitment to vaccination especially in overseas campaigns you have been involved in (where I believe vaccinations are vital) there is absolutely no way I would vaccinate myself or my family (whilst living in Australia) based on an almost life threatening reaction I had to a vaccination in my early years which lead me to investigate into immunisations further. I was so incredibly ill, my parents were told to fear the worst. In the Dr’s opinions it was a direct result from the vaccination I had received 2 weeks prior. I contracted the worst case of the mumps they had ever seen – and since the vaccination lowered my immunity (as does with all of us), at the same time I developed ross river virus and what they thought were measles – certainly not the outcome my mother was aiming for.
Now, as a natural fertility specialist and health practitioner, I would never tell patients to not immunise their children however, provide them with enough information to decide what is best for their family as well as the tools to best cope with side effects of vaccines – something that should be mandatory. It’s almost like we’re slapped with the vaccination and pushed through the cattle gate with the rest of the sheep without any need for follow up – It isn’t good enough. There are so many other factors involved in illness such as whooping cough. Where is the education? And even if a child is vaccinated – there is no guarantee it will stop the child from contracting the illness – although parents assume that if their child is vaccinated, they don’t need to worry should they get sick. Odd. We perhaps need to realise that vaccines as with all medications are not a once size fits all.
I agree that watching a child suffer with whooping cough is devastating – nobody wants to watch their child go through that – unfortunately we have limited unbiased information to show us what really works either way because reality is nobody wants to spend the money to find out. The research I have read (and in the game I’m in) doesn’t actually indicate vaccination has done everything it’s said to do have done in terms of eradicating the illness – mostly these illness have been on the decline far before the vaccinations being introduced because our standards of living are better and our health education has improved.
There isn’t a right or wrong here – it is very much an individual situation that shouldn’t be made lightly.
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My daughter had her first round of jabs last week and I was given info on side effects and reactions.
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I’m referring to appropriate vitmains and care to support immunity lowered from vaccinations.
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Immunity is in no way lowered by vaccinations. This is a myth and it is irresponsible to perpetuate it.
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Thanks, Mary, I meant to ask this too.
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Interesting insight. I can certainly understand your view. I am a firm believer in taking control of your medical care and being informed. I wish I had known that vaccinations wear off or they are not 100%, I do now. But on the issue of vaccinations there is very little information at all except the two extremes of the arguement (for and against). I would probably agree that this means there is very little research done on what really works.
I would like to see evidence that back’s up your stance on vaccinces. For example how many children are hospitalised or die from standard vaccines (we probably shouldn’t dabble in fluvax here) versus how many children are hospitalised/ die from the diseases. Is the cluster of disease in low vaccination areas really statistically relevevant. Is there other factors that are leading to an increase of diseases like whooping cough?
But for now, like you, my personal experiance (see below) and a lack of other credible options, leads me to believe, unlike you, that vaccinations are the best way to go.
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Thanks for this Nat. I wrote some comments above about getting Guillain Barre as a result of the Swine Flu Vaccine. It was totally debilitating for me and my family. I had a 1 yo at the time too. If it wasn’t for my husband’s work being flexible with time off, it would have ruined our future. My work didn’t believe I was sick for a long time because I was completely healthy previously.
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What sort of health practitioner are you, Nat?
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Do you mind telling us what qualifications you need as a natural fertility specialist and health practitioner? Because I am surprised to read a health practitioner saying that advocating vaccination is treating people as “sheep” and saying nobody knows what works because no one does any research. There has been decades of research on vaccination. Smallpox was not eradicated through better standards of living and health education. It was through vaccination.
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I’ve studied in excess of 10 years and have 3 degrees in Health Sciences, Bio Sciences, Chinese Medicine and Acupuncture. I think perhaps you have miss read my reply – I’m not referring to people who vaccinate as sheep – I’m saying the process is treating us as if we are all happy to follow what modern medicine advises us to do – sometimes this can be wonderful and sometimes it can be disastrous. As I suggested, I would never advise somebody NOT to vaccinate, however provide them with information to make an informed decision. There is also a lot that can be said for backing up vaccination with appropriate vitamins – especially vitamin C and spinal care to prevent temperatures rising too much as an immune response – preventing occurrence of autism etc.
I think we need to look more into our lifestyle, the foods we eat, the education we receive, health care and prevention – there is a lot to be said about an overall approach.
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“preventing occurrence of autism etc.”
Sorry, Nat, you’ve lost me there. It’s been proven time and again there is NO CAUSAL LINK.
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anything – including vaccinations that rises the body temperature as an natural immune response, to a point where toxins can cross the blood brain barrier can affect the brain may lead compromise in the nervous system and lead to developmental disorders. Vaccinations is just one example – hence why I suggest spinal care and appropriate vitamins during this process to prevent this from happening.
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Are you suggesting that a febrile response to a vaccination can cause autism? If not, can you clarify what you do mean because your response is so vague as to be very difficult to understand what you’re referring to. What does spinal care have to do with vaccinations and what research supports this?
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spinal care ensure that the nervous system is working to its best ability – and able to ensure the body copes better with the strain placed on it by the immunisation, increasing immune response rather than decreasing it – lessening the chances of long lasting ill effects including behavioural issues. I’m not a chiropractor but I would be sure to follow through with this should my child receive a vaccination.
The effects of mercury and thimerosal on human brain tissues have been studied to and found that the virulence of the vaccine was found to be directly proportional to the presence of thimerasol – this one of the examples fuelling the argument to explain increasing incidence of autism as a result of vaccination.
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There is no evidence for any of the claims you are making. Including your continued attempts to link autism with vaccination. That is very, very shonky indeed for someone calling themselves a health practitioner.
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I am not being snarky – I am genuinely interested in your sources and evidence linking vaccines and autism. Apart from the discredited and disbarred Wakefield study.
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do yourself a favour and seek out the book ’7 things your doctor forgot to tell you.’ It has an excellent chapter on immunisation with some accredited research and back up information – which unfortunately most arguments either way fail to provide.
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Which universities did you grad from please?
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sorry – I didn’t see this.
La Trobe University, Victoria University, Southern School of Natural Medicine.
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I’m intrigued by the whole “alternative to medicine” thing where the implication is that medicine is often (intentionally) wrong or ignorant. If your mechanic tells you to use only unleaded petrol in your car, do you deliberately put diesel in just to see if he’s telling the truth or do you use sugar water instead because you read on the internet, somewhere, that unleaded petrol was just part of some big-oil conspiracy to keep our cars dependent on using expensive fuel?
Would you automatically trust someone who told you to avoid putting oil in your car because apple juice was a more natural alternative?
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I’m not keen to take medical advice from someone relying on degrees in natural medicine, chinese medicine, and/or acupuncture. I like my science evidence-based.
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I love how the anti-vaxers claim that breastfeeding and organic food stop diseases that have been eradicated by vaccination. As if people weren’t doing both of them for however many hundreds of years that things like smallpox were around. Nutters.
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perhaps having an slightly open mind might allow you to understand why people might not choose to vaccinate – you might find that those who have made an informed decision know a lot about why they chose too – just like, I’m sure you have done a lot of research to find out why you wanted and chose to vaccinated. I spent hours coming to this conclusion – it wasn’t something I made lightly. To be referred to as a nutter is somewhat hurtful given my extensive research, background and knowledge in children’s health. I’m not sure you are referring to me with this comment – but I’ve never claimed that breastfeeding and organic food will solve the worlds greatest problems, it certainly does help boost immunity though – which can be a great way to support the body in the immunisation process.
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No-one denies that breastfeeding helps immunity. The AVN (the nutters to whom I refer) claim that breastfeeding and good food are good enough.
I have also seen them claim that getting measles as a little one is useful against eczema! Wish someone had told my eczema that when I got measles. It missed the memo.
And I was replying to Katherine’s comment.
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To further support you Kris, I understand Whooping Cough to be one of the few germs/bacterium/virus that breastfeeding DOESN’T offer any kind of protection from. I’m trying to find the sources now, but in my own research I am sure that this has been proven.
So for the anti-camp (especially AVN etc) to announce that bfing plus healthy lifestyle is enough to keep your newborn safe is just irresponsible and dangerous.
PS Sorry about your eczema – I am a psoriasis sufferer and I feel your pain!
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Oh man, I am scared of developing psoriasis. I’m watching bubby’s skin like a hawk too, so paranoid about her having eczema like I did. But I’ve had measles, so according to the AVN, my eczema was “treated”. Mental.
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Problem is their decision is not informed. This is a direct result of the misinformation perpetuated by the anti-vaccine lobby. Yes, they give out information, however the information is not correct. It is either cherry picked from articles out of context or continuing the many myths they perpetuate (but made to sound as though it has a scientific basis. AAARRGH!
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I agree. A large part of the problem in getting reliable information as both camps on either side of the argument are extreme, there is very little middle ground. When my first son was born I was a die-hard supporter of vaccines. I strongly believed anyone who did not get their child immunised was irresponsible and selfish. I completely get where Mia is coming from, as that was my belief 100%. Life has changed my mind. I have struggled to find unbiased material as I have researched the topic. My son was diagnosed with ASD. It changes your view of the worl sinced. My son is now 7. He did not receive his 4yr boosters (he was fully vaccinated up until that point, I even paid for extra vaccines. It did not cross my mind it could cause you harm), and I am very comfortable with that decision. He has a hard time processes food, the heat……he has various issues. The vaccines are a massive attack on the immune system. But I do not believe vaccines are all bad, just for some people. My 5yr old had her 2 4yr shots, but one at a time, to lessen the burden on her immune system. I also have a 7month old. She has had all her vaccines (except Hep B in hospital. No one, not even doctors can explain to me, why in a first world country we vaccinate your babies against hep B, in the hour after they are born!), but one at a time. Doctors even admit that they are all lumped together for no other reason than we are all ‘time poor’. I am not ‘time poor’ when it comes to my kids health!
I maybe rambling, and no one may get this far, but I find this topic endlessly frustrating…….there needs to be a middle ground in the debate.
I will continue to vaccinate my baby, one at a time (though each shots usually contains 3 vaccines…..do people even realise how many shots their poor babies now get at the 12 months shots).
And no child of mine will EVER receive a flu vaccine, They are full of mercury, and there are thousands upon thousand of cases of adverse reactions. Even an esteemed immunolgist at Canberra Uni, warns against the flu vaccine. Dr Oz got on Oprah to plug the swine flu vaccine, but later admitted his wife would not allow his own kids to get it.
What upsets me the most is the disregard shown by the medical profession (as a generalisation) towards people who do have a adverse reaction. They all admit it’s possible, but deny that it can possible apply to you. I understand herd immunity, and largely am now relying on that for my son. Myself, my Mum and my husabnd have all had the whooping cough booster to protect our kids. PLEASE do not dismiss people’s adverse reaction. And don’t insult them the statistics of how ‘rare’ it is, because even if it’s 1 in a thousand, if it happens to your or your child it’s 100%!
thx if you got this far! Good luck with your decision on vaccination, just please READ UP ON THE TOPIC FIRST AND MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION (that does mean only brochures from the doctors office!)
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And if your child dies from a preventable disease because they are too young to be vaccinated (there by actually taking youtr choice away) that is 100% too
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as much as I agree with you (hence I’ve vaccinated my baby and I said I agree with ‘herd immunity’ only so far as it doesn’t damage my child), you are adding to my argument that to many people belittle those who have side-effects. There are side effects out there that are real, including death…that’s also 100%
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No, no-one belittles anyone who has side-effects. The people who get belittled and derided are the ones who can vaccinate but choose not to. There is a big difference between can’t and won’t.
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The only issues I have with your stance are:
There has been no causal link established to ASD from the MMR vaccine. Dr Wakefield, the author of that “study” was recently medically deregistered for the fraud he committed in his study. Insincerely hope that this has not played a part in your vaccination decisions.
You can’t really compromise on vaccines (separating them means that kids still eventually get them) because you either do or don’t vaccinate your kids. Therefore this issue will always polarize.
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I completely agree the issue will always polarise. I have read more than the average on vaccines, including Dr Wakefield. There have been many times in medicine that the official medical stance has taken some years before it has caught up with circumstancial evidence. I disagree that you either vaccinate or you don’t. I believe vaccines do serve a valuable purpose, or I wouldn’t do it. Howver, the vaccine schedule has go out of control. By separating my baby’s needles by just a couple of weeks, I can monitor any physical reaction she may have, and still keep her pretty much on schedule…probably more so than many other babies, as I am so conscious of it. I do wholeheartedly support vaccines, I probably haven;t made clear enough in my previous posts that I have a huge gripe with the ‘schedule’, and the number of vaccines they keep piling on top of one another. I also have quite small babies, I also object to the ‘one-soze fits all’ approach the vaccines. The issue witll always polarise, but I have not done what I have done following anyone blindly. I just call on people to try and educate themselves a bit more before they blindly get massive imjections in the one go. I am still confused about the Hep B injection at birth, and no medical professional objected to my stance in hopsital – which I must say, surprised me!
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“I agree. A large part of the problem in getting reliable information as both camps on either side of the argument are extreme, there is very little middle ground. ”
The pro-side has to appear extreme to counter the absolute nonsense promulgated by the anti-vax side.
If you told your mechanic that you believed new brake pads are just death traps with no benefits, would you prefer that mechanic simply shrug and respect your view as you drive off or advise you what an idiot you’re being and tell you that you’re risking your own life and that of others if you repair your shonky brakes?
Would you be right just because you’d done some “research” that led you to your conclusion or is there a chance that reality isn’t a matter of opinion and that, just sometimes, qualified people actually know more about their area of expertise than the rest of us do?
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Oops!
…you’re risking your own life and that of others if you *DON’T* repair your shonky brakes…
Fixed.
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We always give info on side effects (common and rare) and the stats relating to both vaccine related and wild germs. The local GP network has a lovely plain English and illustrated pamphlet which GPs can hand out. If yours doesn’t, maybe it’s the practice itself.
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do you also supply means to support the body through the process? This is what I’m referring to and what I need to do in my clinic time and time again because the information isn’t out there. I know you do your part in terms of preparing parents for potential side effects.
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Not through naturopathic methods. If someone said they were following up with herbal/naturopathic means, then that’s their choice. We advise on symptom relief and when to seek medical advice. We also advise when it’s best not to immunize (ie babies with high fevers etc) and the absolute contraindications. It’s not perfect, I’ll admit, but nothing is.
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what do you mean by supporting the body? i think a healthy diet is enough. you do realise most vitamin supplements are urinated out again. it has been said we in the western world have the most expensive urine!
i am sure naturopaths/homeopaths would love to sell more vitamins but unless they are medically required (for example children with cystic fibrosis who are unable to absorb the fat soluble vitamins) then really people are wasting their money.
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Yes – I agree a healthy diet ideally is the best source of nutrition – unfortunately with all the pesticides and chemicals sprayed on our plants and produce our soils are being more sterile and the quality of our foods is diminishing considerably. I previously practiced refraining from advising patients to take a multi vitamin – but I’ve come to realise over the past 10 years in practice that it can actually make a substantial difference – especially in the instance of fertility.
You are correct – regular multi vitamins are a huge wast of money – the quality in these lack considerably. I only use one kind that I trust.
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Do you have data that supports your contention that food quality is diminishing?
Can you also explain why general health and life expectancy continue to increase in countries with most of the “problems” you list?
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Yes Andy I do.
As an extremely busy practitioner, I feel I dedicated enough time to this – should you want more info on this, you don’t have to look very deep.
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Nice cop out, Nat. You’re the one making the claims, you back them up. Common courtesy!
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I disagree. There is plenty of unbiased information to show us what really works. Vaccination really works! It appears you have fallen into the trap of actually considering the information you have read to be accurate. Many of the Natural Health “practitioners” quote studies which are either clearly not scientifically based, or have the results misinterpreted by people who think that any Tom, Dick and Harry can interpret results.
I’m so sick and tired of people thinking that they know better than the qualified doctors who devote their life to finding ways to beat the diseases which can cause death and lifelong disability.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!
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Which research would that be? Vera, Meryl? There is plenty of scientific research to show what really works. Vaccination really works!
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I got a letter from Medicare/NSW Health last week about Whooping Cough boosters – I got one when I was in hospital with bubs, and she got her first round of jabs last week (we both cried!), but didn’t also realise that other carers could get them free as well, so Mum is going to get hers at her next doctor’s visit.
I can’t understand anti-vaxers. At all.
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I cried all the way through the 60 minutes article as well. I consider myself one of the lucky ones as well, my daughter had whooping cough when she was 6 weeks old (just before they lowered the vaccination age) and we spent two nights in hospital and months of coughing.
I do not understand people that do not vaccinate and thank you Mia for highlighting this issue!
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I agree Kris, totally. Good to hear you and bub are doing well xxxx
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Shocker yesterday, but I didn’t feel too flash either!
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Thank you for highlighting this!
I got it last year when I was pregnant, although I wasn’t actually diagnosed until it was too late. I gave birth to my son and everyone in the delivery room thought it was amusing that I coughed out my placenta. Fainting spells and coughing and being very sick was blamed on a chest infection/pregnancy and child birth.
Fast forward 3 weeks, baby seen by three doctors, just a winter cold. Finally I had enough and went to the ED and within 20 minutes he was admitted. Three gut wrenching weeks later we were out of hospital, three months later both finally clear of the worst of it. We were the lucky ones. I bawled through 60 minutes the other night.
Needless to say we have all had our boosters. As an adult it was awful. As a mother so hard to watch in my baby. I wouldn’t want this for anyone, so please spread the word and get vaccinated!!
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Mother of boy’s I hope everything’s OK for you and your baby now. I just ranted against the folk compromising herd immunity.
Reading your personal story really brings home that there are terrible consequences for individuals and families. It’s far beyond just an academic debate.
Wishing you and yours good health
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Thank you! It is a bit of wait and see in terms of ongoing affects. Fingers crossed.
It wasn’t until I spoke with someone from the WA health dept (as it is a notifable disease) that I realised the vaccines wear off. No one seems to know, so thank you Mia and the WA health dept who has now started to educate and give free vaccines!
I was a little sad that they didn’t cover this in the story on 60 minutes, although VERY glad the stupidity of the anti-vaccine movement was highlighted. I commented to a friend that I would happily give that lady my details so she could look over my son’s three week complicated history and tell me he didn’t have whooping cough (which was conformed of course by lab tests), then I could smack her inteh face!
Please continue ranting and being a responsible member of society xx
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I’m theoretically smacking her too, in solidarity
Best of luck for you and your son!!
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Oh my – I can’t believe this happened to you and your baby. Wishing you both all the best.
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Mother of boys:So what with the 3(!!!) doctors who misdiagnosed? That is pretty bad! Glad to hear you got treatment/ok…
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They are not used to seeing it! Even my Ob/GP was upset that she missed it in me. We were lucky that when we got to the hospital in our regional town (as opposed to two doctors in the capital City) they had seen two cases so they knew exactly what it was.
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Coincidence: Just got jabbed today against whooping cough – amongst other nasties.
I think it’s important to save anger for only the most important things and one of those things at the top of my anger list is anti-immunisation folk.
If it only affected their own children, that would be terrible enough.
But the impact such idiotic beliefs has on children and other vulnerables everywhere makes me furious!
“True believers” in anti-immunisation rubbish are most often people who feel they are part of the special few able to see through things like… um… peer reviewed research, complete scientific consensus – which really doesn’t happen very often – and any GP they’ll ever consult.
Why they think they have a hotline to an ultimate truth that endangers the incredible strides made in public health – know anyone who’s been struck by polio? – is really beyond me.
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I think it’s a great idea for everyone to discuss all their immunisations with their doctors, not just whooping cough. I think it’s part of being a responsible citizen.
I had a booster for whooping cough/diptheria/tetanus in 2009 and just yesterday, my doctor advised me to get the MMR (MMR wasn’t around when I was a kid but I was vaxed separately for measles, mumps and rubella), because apparently mumps is going around my area and I work with kids.
I’m actually waiting to find out if this cough I have right now is whooping cough. It doesn’t sound or feel like it to me – I’m not wheezing or having trouble breathing – but my doctor did a swab anyway, just to make sure. He told me that most people who get the jab won’t contract whooping cough but some will and that they’ll get a milder case.
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Does anyone know when the free booster cuts out? I see it says above “new” parents. My youngest is 4 and has been fully vaccinated but I didn’t know a booster was available so I haven’t been done. I’d like to take advantage of it, but not sure if I’d still qualify for the free version (and does anyone know how much it costs?).
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We paid in WA before it was free and it was $80 each but that was not just whopping cough.
Give your pharmacy a call, they should be able to tell you.
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You should ring your maternal health nurse at your council or your doctor and they’ll be able to tell you. My council extended the free vaccine to my kids grandparents not just the parents so it’s definitely worth asking!
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This is available for free for parent, grandparents (if living with parents or caring for grandchildren) and caters (daycare etc) of babies 6 months and under.
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Whooping cough is a horrible sickness no matter what age you are. I originally come from the byron bay area in NSW and we have the lowest vaccination rate in Australia! I’m happy to say that my mum always made sure our family was all vaccinated, due to her being a teacher she saw how colds and flues and sickness spread in winter. Each year the rates of pneumonia and whooping couch run ramped and double. Many small children, babies and the elderly get very sick with these sickness and in some cases close to death in our area. I understand it’s an individuals choice to get them and their children vaccinated. but by not being vaccinated you don’t just put yourself and your own children at risk of getting very sick but also everyone around you. but in my opinion people who don’t do it a just plain stupid!
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Could all South Australians please email their local member pressing for free vaxs for parents and carers of children under 5.
Most states have this in palce now, except for in SA.
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I’m not a parent but am very pro-vax so will definitely be doing this! X
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Also (this might be a silly question but it’s an important issue so I’ll ask anyway) do you want us to send emails to our local member at state or federal level or both? I was going with state but just wanted to be sure.
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I can remember how scared I felt with my first newborn, passing her over to friends and relatives for a cuddle for the first time…I made them wash their hands. Such vulnerability. If I’d known what I know now I would’ve made them get boosters too! 60 minutes footage is heartbreaking. I sobbed through it. We used to live in Lennox Head too, where Dana’s family are from.
Fortunately we made it through the early years unscathed, but we will ‘do unto others’ and make sure we have the boosters.
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I have a newborn, and my partner and I, our son and my sister have all had the booster, but my parents have flatly refused
Not sure how I can get them to change their mind without haranguing them into it, although I did send them a link to this piece.
I would love to know if anyone knows what the vaccination rates are around Melbourne’s suburbs.
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Argh…I’m pregnant. My IL’s are anti vax. I’m not sure what I’m going to do cos it will cause a stink.
But I feel very strongly they shouldn’t come near the baby un vaxxed.
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i’d just vax them and not say a word!! ultimately they are your children so no matter what they say, you should do what you feel is right!
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I think the issue here is what will happen after the babies born before he or she is old enough to be vaccinated. I say keep them away or get them a face mask, better safe than sorry.
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When my MIL got Whooping cough I wouldn’t let her come to Miss 5′s dancing concert. We are all vaccinated but others there have tiny babies!
Sad but too important.
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If you feel that way, make them wait for 6 months, the baby will have had his/her first 3 vaccines and will be safe.
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i would say you can see the baby when you are vaccinated. let them in for short periods but with a mask.
it sounds tough but that would be my stance
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Before our daughter arrived I told both sets of parents that they would need the vaccination if they wanted to see their grand-daughter face to face! It was half tongue-in-cheek but I have a friend who has been a children’s hospital nurse for over ten years and she warned me of how serious it can be in newborns. I talked to my GP about the risks and, armed with some reliable information, presented that to my parents and my in-laws. I appreciated that they had the right to choose not to be vaccinated just as I had the right, as a new Mum, to keep my daughter away from that risk. Lucky for me my parents were happy to oblige and my in-laws although initially reluctant, came around. I’m not sure if that was because of the stance I took or because the information made sense to them. Good luck though, and ultimately, I say follow your protective instincts as a Mum (surely they’re there for a reason?!??) even if that means going toe to toe with people at times.
My daughter still ended up being hospitalised with pneumonia at 11 weeks and that was horrific enough to deal with as a new parent. It would have been even worse if it was due to whooping cough and she had got it from someone I was close to. Imagine their guilt…..
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Isobel tell them they can’t cuddle your newborn until they have the booster! Try the VIC health website for anti-vacc rates: http://www.health.vic.gov.au/
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Don’t let them near your newborn. Harsh maybe but it what I would do if my folks didn’t get theirs (they did thank god). Good luck.
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Be assertive and strong for the sake of your child. Tell them before birth that it’s your way or the highway! When your parents rock up, don’t let them in the hospital room/house! It might seem harsh at time, even rude. However, their lack of empathy for the problem at hand – one that could even KILL their grandchild (!) is even ruder! No second chances IF your child catches it and it kills them!
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I’ve been thinking of this all week, after catching a glimpse of the 60min eps. And by glimpse I mean I saw a bit and then a picture of the baby attached to the tubes. That was enough for me and after yelling at my husband for not turning over quick enough I then went on to yell about selfish people who don’t vacinate
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Posted before I was finished and having trouble editing. Anyway so after my yelling at the tv my hubby thought that I was having a go at the parents featured and told me that the baby was to young to be immunised. Bless him.
We all got the shot when miss2 was one week old. My parents had the boosters toward the end of my pregnancy. We are currently in the early stages of pregnancy and I’m worried about this already. My major thing at the moment is that miss2 goes to a day care centre 1 day a week. We are not in one of the high risk areas but it is situated within a large uni so the possibility of non immunised kids is possible. I’m worried about taking a newborn into the daycare centre while I drop miss2 off and will prob remove her until bub 2 is old enough to be immunised. Is that over kill? Do you think the centre will confirm if there is any non whooping cough vax kids there? God it is so annoying that people right to choose totally limits mine. It makes me so angry and sad.
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When we went to get AJ’s shots last year, P-Daddy and I were offered the booster for free. We got it, and I also made sure my mum got her booster from the doctor as well.
Do it. Do it now.
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if i had a newborn i would certainly be asking all close relatives to get a booster.
i have seen babies very sick with pertussis and it is absolutely horrific. i really feel for the families.
i caught a little bit of 60 minutes on sunday, i was so happy to see the family that lost little dana have had another baby. i am sure they miss dana every day but having another baby to love must be some comfort. i think we are so lucky that they are prepared to talk so openly about what happened to dana, they are helping to educate so many people.
the weirdo’s they also interviewed did nothing for the anti-vaccine debate except make me realise how deluded they are. it was quite hard to watch as they just made such fools of themselves, i would feel sorry for them if they weren’t so damned dangerous!
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I generally despise the ‘A Current Affair’ style journalism that 60 Minutes seems to have adopted but for once I wanted them to go for broke and make those anti-vaccine campaigners look like the nuts that they are.
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I had whooping cough 5 years ago. The coughing was so bad that I broke my own ribs – twice! I passed out from coughing on several occasions. I lost my voice from the inflammation for nearly 3 months, and 5 years later, my voice has still not fully recovered. I wish I had known about whooping cough vaccination 5 years ago.
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I really urge everyone to get this done. As a two month old I was close to death (and in hospital for a month) because of whooping cough. I was too young to be vaccinated and caught it from my older sister. The doctor told my parents that I was lucky to survive. I cried watching sixty minutes the other night thinking about how things could have gone the other way for me.
My heart goes out to all the parents who have lost children who have died from preventable diseases. It is a tragedy that little ones are still getting sick and dying from diseases that are so easily prevented.
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God the footage of the sick newborn is hard to watch.
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It was gut-wrenching. I actually found it even harder to watch that short video of the newborn with that little tiny cough. It seemed so harmless – something that newborns do frequently. It scared me to the core.
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My little 3 year old boy got it this year; he was fully immunised; I didn’t realise you can still get it even if you’ve been vaccinated. He was pretty sick but not as sick as he would have been if he wasn’t immunised.
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Last winter a friend of mines two children (3 and 1) had it and they had also been fully immunized. Apparently symptoms and severity are reduced after immunization.
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I believe the efficacy of Pertussis vaccine is unfortunately only around 85% – by all accounts one of the “least” effective vaccines (compared with Measles which I believe is something like 95%). Hence why the outbreaks have been so rampant recently, even in vaccinated people. Add in new strains and you have yourself a Pertussis Party.
In saying that though, 85% is still a HUGE amount of protection compared to 0%. I would rather my child have 85% chance of not catching this disease than none at all, or having reduced symptoms. Sure, good hygiene and health can assist, but it’s not enough.
I watched my 34yo husband struggle with it two years ago (there was an outbreak at the school he teaches at) and couldn’t help but wonder how babies and small children cope if my 34yo robust strong husband suffered. And his WAS a mild dose. He is an incredibly healthy active man, but unfortunately his last booster shot had worn off and he hadn’t been re-boosted. He suffered ten days of isolation while he was treated for contagion, six weeks of seizing coughs at any time or place to the point that he cracked a rib, the inability to breathe so many times over several weeks which was terrifying to watch, exhaustion and poor appetite and a lingering cough that didn’t fully go away for almost four months. And the doctors said that was a MILD case!
I’ll support a person’s right to choose not to vaccinate, but unless there is a medical reason for opting out, I will never, ever understand it.
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It’s like choosing not to put a seat belt on your kids because you read, somewhere on the internet, about the damage a seat belt can cause in an accident. It seems to be a failure to understand statistical risk – combined with a conspiracy mindset.
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We had our boosters a couple of months ago and I’ve been telling all my family and friends to do the same. I wish everyone would get the boosters pronto.
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There is a balanced website called myvaccination.com.au that is aligned to the national program. It’s a good first step for everyone.
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Vegetarians/vegans (and those with feather allergies) should bear in mind that vaccines are created using chicken eggs/embryos and that should be weighed up against the need for vaccination. Not saying you shouldn’t do it, just something to consider.
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These vaccines are NOT made in chicken embryos. Pertussis is NOT a virus, it is a bacteria (Bortetella pertussis) and the vaccine is made from purified components of the bacterium, rendered harmless but able to induce our immune systems into generating an antibiotic response for when we are exposed to the whole bacteria.
Also, every vaccine to viruses is made differently – not all are made in chicken eggs – some are live, some are attenuated, some are just bits of protein – if you are allergic to eggs just ask you doctor before receiving a vaccine. Even if you are allergic to eggs, you may not have a response but ask a qualified professional.
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yay! a voice of reason and science
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Why ask a qualified professional when there is so much unqualified advice so widely available? My mechanic told me my brakes needed fixing but last time I had them fixed, a truck ran in the back of me. I’m not falling for that one again. These brakes have lasted for years without accident. I think the evidence speaks for itself.
Is it true that brake linings are made from puppies? I think I read that somewhere.
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Love it.
Check out quackwatch.com for some interesting reading on antivax, chiro and other myths.
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We have a 9wk old and have had our free shots (QLD). I think I’ll ask my Mum to get one, too…
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I am Pro Vax but have split the schedule up. My son had a reaction to the two month old injections and cried almost 24 hours a day for nearly a week after them, so after discussing with lots of health professionals (his pead, gp and mchn) we decided that it was best to only do one injection at a time going forward. It takes a little longer as you need a month between each jab for live vacines but he is totally up to date and we haven’t had any further issues (touch wood). The schedule is there for a reason but its not written in stone, and you can work around it for your child.