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gillard UPDATED: The Carbon Tax Cheat Sheet

Julia Gillard announces details of the carbon tax.

 

 

UPDATE: So it’s official. There’s going to be a price on carbon (colloquially known as a carbon tax). The Senate has to pass it still but that won’t be an issue with the new Greens senators in place. The package of bills, which includes assistance to the steel industry and low and middle income earners, will become law on July 1 2012. The bills passed in a narrow vote 74-72.

Protestors called the passing a ‘sad day for democracy’ and Ms Gillard said Tony Abbott and the Opposition were on the ‘wrong side of history’.

We’ve got a cheat sheet we wrote at the time of the price announcement which should get you across the basics.

 

Here’s the original cheat sheet:

Carbon Sunday came and has almost gone and we’ll begin the week with all the details of the Gillard Government’s carbon tax, which they are calling a ‘price on pollution’.

We’ll recap the basics below so you know what’s what, but first let’s get some thoughts from the major players, starting with a concise Prime Minister herself.

Julia Gillard said: “The essence of this could not be simpler. We will require around 500 big polluters to pay a price for the carbon pollution they put into our atmosphere. At the moment they can do that for free.  Because something they used to do for free now costs them money they will innovate, they will change, they will find a way to reduce that bill and in doing so will reduce emissions. This plan has been modelled by the same people who modelled the GST. They were right then and they have done the modelling this time around.”

Tony Abbott said: “If this is such a good package, why won’t she [Gillard] take it to an election? Why won’t she take it to an election soon? It’s socialism masquerading as environmentalism. I think this package is going to compound the trust problem which has dogged the Prime Minister ever since she politically assassinated Kevin Rudd.”

Barnaby Joyce said: “The Greens run the Labor party now. This is some biodynamic sensitive new age policy written by a bunch of people who probably wear koala suits. Labor’s own plan says emissions will still go up and they will buy permits overseas. People are going to be poorer, it’s as simple as that.”

So, we announced a carbon tax. But what happened really?

This is the crux of it. Today the Prime Minister announced a price on carbon of $23 per tonne which would be charged on some of the biggest 500 polluters in the country, revised down from an earlier 1000. This price per tonne of carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere will increase by 2.5 per cent each year until the carbon tax becomes an emissions trading scheme on July 1, 2015. What this basically means is that for now, the Government sets a price on pollution. In three years, the market will decide what that price is worth and the Government will simply set a cap on how much pollution our economy is allowed to create.

What’s the aim here?

The carbon tax is supposed to – and only time will tell – cut emissions by 5 per cent by 2020 and by 20 per cent in 2050. It is hoped this will be achieved by the cost incentives to big industry, forcing them to get creative in ways to reduce their impact on emissions released in to the air. These targets are modest. Some would call them pretty small and weak. Many have called them ‘an important first step’ in transitioning to a low carbon economy. Basically, it’s not much but it’s a start.

The scheme will apparently reduce carbon emissions in the air by about 159 million tonnes by 2020. That’s the equivalent of taking 45 million cars off the road, the Government says.

carbon pollution UPDATED: The Carbon Tax Cheat Sheet

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So will everybody be paying a lot more money now?

According to Treasury modelling, not really. The average household costs rise will be about $9.90 per week according to the Government, but the average compensation directed back to those households in the form of tax cuts and other benefits will be worth $10.10. That means households will, on average, be 20 cents better off per week than before the carbon tax started. The Prime Minister says more than 50 per cent of the money raised from the tax will go back to households in the form of compensation.

Independent Senator Nick Xenophon said this was ‘incredibly inefficient’ and the Government was effectively ‘robbing Peter to pay Peter’.

What kind of compensation will there be?

About $15 billion in tax cuts for low and middle income earners.

Let’s list:

The tax free threshold will be tripled to $18,200 in 2012. This is pretty sneaky (but welcomed by many) welfare to work reform, separate from the issue of carbon but designed to help relieve cost pressure. This will rise to more than $19,000 later.

1.7% increase to the pension and family assistance benefits and payments.

  • Up to $110 per child for a family that receives Family Tax Benefit Part A.
  • Up to $69 extra for families that receive Family Tax Benefit Part B.
  • Up to $218 extra per year for single income support recipients and $390 per year for couples combined for people on allowances.
  • Up to $234 per year for single parents in addition to the increased family payments they receive.

Tax cuts for workers earning up to $80,000 a year worth up to $300.

$300 annual low income supplement.

Some 8 million households will receive  some form of assistance, and for 6 million this will mean they are able to meet cost rises. Another 4 million will be better off. So that’s 9 out of 10 homes that will get some assistance.

The Government has made this assistance calculator available so you can test your own carbon tax exposure, or lack thereof.

What does the tax cover?

The tax covers about 60 per cent of polluting industries but will not cover agriculture or petrol/light on road vehicles. Farmers won’t have to pay it, but they will receive incentives for every tonne of carbon they save from entering the atmosphere.

What help is there for industry?

About $9.2 billion is being made available to ‘emissions intensive, trade exposed’ industries such as coal and steel to help them make changes with out losing their competitive advantage.

A $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation to fund new clean energy technology has also been set up.

Will it work?

This is the kicker. The debate today was not about whether climate change was real or not – the Opposition also concedes it is – but whether the carbon tax is the right way to go about addressing the human induced elements of it. Or whether it’s a harebrained scheme that won’t even work.

The jury appears to be out.

The real question as to whether it works or not is: is there any incentive to change? If the cost pressures are calibrated just right between pinching big polluters but not knocking them out of business altogether, then the catalyst for greener change might kick in.

Conversely, if the compensation is too high there will be no incentive for change at all.

What do you think? Did the Government hit the nail on the head or is the price on carbon a big swing and a miss? What would you have them do instead? And are you happy with the tax breaks?

Want a quicker rundown by video? This GetUp video will help get your head around it:

Comments

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278 Comments so far

  1. Ganny O

    Given the history of taxes, will a carbon tax really reduce the world’s pollution?
    Every time you put $1.50 of petrol in your car, around 90c goes straight to the government in tax, plus GST – tax on tax.
    It raises more than $14billion just from the excise tax, before the GST.
    But less than $4billion is spent on roads and bridges – that “user pays” system is NOT working.
    Each year rural and regional roads and bridges get worse and worse.
    But the tax, we were promised by a former labor government, would improve our roads. Why?
    The stuff pumped out of factories can’t be good.
    But taxes are all about revenue raising for politicians, their overseas trips and all their bureaucrats, not for the good of the people.
    Governments have to dream up new taxes, because that’s just what governments do. And don;t ever believe they are for the good of the people – they aren’t. If they thought about us at all, the number of politicians and bureaucrats would be cut.

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    • I can’t really comment on the petrol excise, but comparing it to the CT and related Tax Reforms is not a fair comparison…

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  2. Nix

    R u kidding me!!! This is just the greens holding the government for ransom! I can’t believe idiots of Australia believe this is a good thing?! Also Australia needs to wake up and stop being so pig headed to think we are actually big and important enough to make a difference in world pollution. We are nothing but a mere drop in the ocean… 20 mill ha ha that’s new yorks

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    • Amy

      If one person refuses to recycle, should we all stop recycling? Your argument that australia is too small to make a difference is EXACTLY the small minded rubbish Abbott was sprouting last year when he was a climate change denier. Your ignorance is astounding.

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      • Rose

        I have to agree with you Amy. I do not have enough knowledge to fairly judge if I think the CT will actually help the environment but I believe we need to start somewhere. I hold the opinion that while I can not solve any of the worlds problems all by myself I need to do what I can to make me feel like I am doing the right thing… ie turn off the lights when I’m not in the room, recycle, give a small monthly donation to 3 charities etc… I believe Australia needs to do something to try to help the environment, even if we aren’t big enough to stop the problem.

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        • Jimmy

          How are people missing this…

          The Carbon Tax is designed to encourage big business to adopt methods of production that release less carbon into the atmosphere. The technology is ready and waiting, big businesses just have to adopt it, then they wont have to pay as much tax, therefore they wont have to tax the general population.

          Most of them have been begging for this because they’ve been holding off of buying this machinery until the tax comes in and they’re supported for doing so. Credit to the Gillard government for bringing something that yes, people will hate them for in the short term, but in the long term is good for Australia.

          This is for the next generation and the generation after, to make sure we don’t wind up living is a smog saturated filthy hole like NYC.

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    • Noelle

      I refuse to take any argument that starts with ‘R u kidding me [exclamation point no question mark]‘ seriously.

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    • Anonymous

      Oh, how nice. We’re being called idiots.

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  3. rainbow

    i am thrilled. i think julia has done a great job.

    we need to act on climate change and we need to do it NOW.

    i haven’t done the numbers (and nor will i probably) but i don’t care if i am worse off, we need to act on climate change, i am willing to pay towards my grandchildren’s future.

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  4. Amy

    Are you people fucking kidding me?? I am an avid reader of this site and the majority of comments on this site are women banging on about their awesome kids. This is an investment in their future! Pull your selfish heads out of your asses an look at the bigger picture. This is a step toward protecting our planet, your bloody kids futures. Maybe it’ll cost you some money, so what, turn off the lights, sell the 4WD and look at your own consumption. You actually might save money. God I’m so angry at these comments

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    • JustMe

      But what your forgetting is that a lot of us think that man made CC is an absolute crock and the earth is just going through a cycle and is changing regardless of how much extra we all pay. This is just the governements way of putting money back in its coffers and wont make any difference to the climate – well it will make 1/4000th of a difference, sorry.

      Its like saying to an athiest “read the bible regularly and be prepared for Christs return…just in case your wrong”. The earth is going to change either way and paying more and crippling our industries and sending Aussies jobs O/S is NOT going to change that.

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      • langers

        Wow your intelligence humbles me, you are right, and the world’s leading scientists are all wrong about climate change. How do we let the world know about your amazing discoveries in the Earth’s atmosphere, and all the research you’ve done on this matter whilst sitting on your arse in Australia suburbia.

        You are a moron, seriously. Comparing scientific fact to religion. Pleeease

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        • robyn

          Well said! :)

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        • JustMe

          Wow do you always insult people when they politely disagree with someones point of view? Would you call me a moron if I was sitting opposite you at a dinner party or do you like to hide behind your computer screen “sitting on your arse” and insult people. I respect that you have a different opinion on who or what is causing the earth’s change, I wouldnt dare call you a moron as you are entitled to that opinion. Your attitude is indicative of man made climate change believers…that the rest of us should just shut up, do what we say and dont ask any questions.

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          • langers

            Yes it was rude to call someone a moron, but I won’t apologise for it. Its fear mongering by the climate change deniers that holds Australia back from making any real positive changes to environmental policy. I am not in the category to gain any compensation for the tax, but I am willing to make sacrifices for the future.

            If you sat across from me at a dinner party and you based your arguments on climate change on fantasy by denying that it is pollution related- despite ALL leading scientists across the globe disagreeing with your little “opinion” I would call you a moron. Because you are.

            I don’t have children, but one day I would like to and I would love for my children to experience the Great Barrier Reef and not a bleached relic of what it once was, and I would like them to see a living frog in amongst the Daintree Rainforest.

            A few sacrifices like NOT buying the giant plasma, or not buying a 4WD to drive around the burbs in or not building a monolithic mansion for a family of 4, so that my future children can grow up experiencing nature that way I did is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

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            • JustMe

              Oh those pesky deniers, always asking questions about climate change and wanting
              proof of this and that, why cant they just be like the rest of us and accept what the scientists for hire and the government has told us is fact…..after all they would never waste our taxes on fool hardy schemes or lie to us. Wait

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            • Jimmy

              To JustMe above:

              Your screen name sums it up buddy, that’s who your thinking of.

              Thanks in advance for damaging my children’s future.

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    • Barb

      My kid is awesome. Bang bang bang bang.

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  5. J

    I do believe we need to do something but not sure if this is the right way to go about it, I’m praying it is!
    I heard that the UN will be getting money
    from this? Has anyone heard this?
    I don’t like and trust the UN that much.

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  6. Fi

    I am both excited by the tax free threshold bit (yay, no tax!) and yet a little sad, because wahhhh, no refund!

    Woe is me. Yet yay!

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    • Noelle

      You’ll still get a refund if you’re paying ANY tax throughout the year while earning under $18k. Same as now.

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  7. Becnherboys

    Is it true that there is no compensation to cover the state govt’s increase in the costs of running public transport?

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    • Alex

      What increase in costs? Transport fuel is not included. They don’t run buses on coal.

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  8. anon

    according to the calculator from link above my conditions are uncalculable. Like all other public policy my life does not fit and is not considered. sigh … as this usually means my life will be made rather more difficult than better by such ignorances, I choose not to care either way about an issue I am not in a position to affect …

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  9. taniar

    I hope this is enough incentive for big polluters to invest in renewable energy. I agree with the statement that over compensation is not going to change behavior. However we are only beginning and the kinks may need to be sorted out as the details become more apparent. I hope that these biggest hit (probably coal) businesses will be monitored into how much the extra cost would be passed on to us. I don’t know the ins and outs of this procedure but however the billions of dollars in compensation to the biggest polluters seems quite generous. It needs to ‘hurt’ them (especially them) if we are to lower our emissions.

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  10. yes to carbon tax

    ‘Conversely, if the compensation is too high there will be no incentive for change at all.’

    I think you’re confusing the tax aspect with the eventual cap and trade scheme which comes in 3 years later. Once this happens then emissions will be capped – they can’t get any higher than the cap, it won’t just be a matter of the price so it will work it’s just a question of how expensive it will be and we won’t know until it happens. Compensation is not all that relevant in this context.

    On another matter, I recall a few weeks ago the lengthy piece about opposition MPs miaowing Penny Wong. Of course last week an ALP backbencher did exactly the same thing to Julie Bishop. Have I missed the corresponding piece for this incident or is it yet to come or for some reason not considered as important?

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  11. Dont understand

    Hi

    Sorry for the dumb question. I have only just started reading the info but can someone explain how an increase in the tax free threshold by $12,000 only save someone on $80k $300? Isn’t $12,000 x 15% $1,800? Are they changing all of the tax brackets? That wasn’t mentioned in the article.

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    • Yes…I think the tax-free threshold has been changed only for people earning under $80k…

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      • nenebe

        Surely a ‘tax-free threshold should apply to all taxpayers as it has in the past?

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    • helena

      new tax scales at http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/household-assistance%e2%80%94tax-reform, marginal rate is going up for income less than 80K over the enxt two years, the threshold goes up but the rate is going up from 15-19% and 30-33% for 30-80K

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      • Don't understand

        Ahh, thanks so much. I knew there had to be a catch! :)

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  12. protecting my identity

    “And are you happy with the tax breaks?”

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!! im apart of the one in ten that gets ripped off. According to the website we will pay an extra $735 a year and get “compensated” $77. Add to this the electricity and food increase and we will be hurting.

    Im almost tempted to just go run the car for no reason as an FU to this tax

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    • Mabol

      I think you’re a little bit confused. I’m pretty sure the extra $735 is calculated by looking at living costs (i.e. including food and electricity estimates). So minus the $77 from the $735 and you get $658. If you look at ways to become more energy efficient in your own home (which probably most of us can) – you may be able to cut that $658 down a lot more.

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      • protecting my identity

        either way, its still money we could use on something better. We already turn off power points and try to use limited energy.

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    • dfordezi

      We pay $700 odd and get compensated $3. WTF where does the $3 come from? Oh, and we have $20000 worth of solar panels on our roof… So already doing our bit.

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      • protecting my identity

        Dont spend your $3 compensation all at once ;)

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      • Mabol

        It’s great that you have solar panels on your roof – I definitely think people should get rebates for them, and you might actually pay a bit less than the $700 because quite a bit of that is an average based on coal based electricity increases (as I understand it.) And you don’t need to pay an extra $700 at all – if you have a look at the government sheet, you will see the average increases for low income earners is just over $200 (before rebate). Do you know why? Its because high income earners consume a lot more and thus personally contribute a lot more to carbon dioxide creation – and thus pay more carbon tax as is only fair.

        The reason low income earners are being substituted is because ‘their’ consumption is based a lot more on necessities and essentials. So it really will hurt. It will be quite easy for you not to pay the extra $700 by consuming less carbon based goods and thus avoiding the tax. Consume more, create more carbon and you will pay more carbon tax.

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        • dfordezi

          You seem to have a better handle on this than me. I’m with “don’t understand” above. If tax free threshold is going up that much then we should be much better off, not $700 worse off, shouldn’t we? Also, is it mostly on power, as we have enough panels to completely cover our power usage? Sorry for dumb questions, I didn’t get to see any news coverage today so these are the only details I’ve seen.

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          • Mabol

            Not dumb questions at all! I’m trying to figure out the tax threshold question myself – I am going on the government figures via income and don’t have the actual calculations by which they achieved them – I assume the threshold change is taken into account but not sure.

            Prices of many things will go up slightly (The extra $700 is from cost increases not directly from tax changes) – as remember everyone else still has to pay for more expensive power and transportation. But you will certainly be in a much better position with solar cells than without as direct power costs in the home will be one of the most significant increases, (and I’ve heard electricity costs are about to be hiked up quite a bit soon regardless of a carbon tax).

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      • OK…if you have solar panels on your roof, then you don’t use as much electricity as the average family…the Govt’s calculator doesn’t take that into account…so it’s more than likely that you won’t be $700 out of pocket…which means your investment in solar technology has been a smart investment…

        Others, please take note…you too can reduce the impact of the carbon tax by doing things like installing solar panels, or turning off lights…if you’re smart, you’ll be able to take advantage of the carbon tax and compensation and be better off.

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    • If that’s true, I think you must be earning way more than $100,000 a year…

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  13. L to the J

    Reminds me a bit of the water shortage years back, We had to go to restrictions and regulations and all that before we all twigged to the fact that WE PLAY A PART HERE.

    You may not like it, but sorry life is tough!

    P.S The world is watching Australia.

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    • Two Mummies

      …I think it is great Australia is being a world leader and I can’t believe people are upset about that! You don’t tell your kids to go to school and not do as well or better than the other kids! You encourage them to achieve their best.

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  14. Mel

    it’s not scary at all, as I suspected, & hopefully something will change. Maybe it won’t affect global temp’s, but maybe the 1000′s of Aussie’s that die from air pollution each year will live a little longer. Maybe all our health will benefit from the clean air. And John James below could be right. And it will all be okay.

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  15. Liam Renton

    Let me get this right. Big business is still allowed to pollute, as long as they pay for it?? Hmmm,, so how does that help the environment .. Pollute and Pay, jack up prices to cover the price, environment still loses.

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    • That’s a very simplistic point of view…

      What the Carbon-Tax is designed to do is make clean-energy more cost-competitive with the (currently) cheaper coal-based energy providers…the more cost-competitive clean-energy providers are, the more individuals and businesses will switch to them…which results in lower carbon-emissions…that’s the theory at least…

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  16. rebeccajaneboner

    Sounds good on paper.

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  17. slightly freaked out!

    I was not able to complete the estimate calculator provided above for our family, it said it did not have the information available??? so I just did the estimate for a friend of ours who is over for dinner. His wife left him, and kicked him out of the family home. he is the sole income earner so pays child support and the schhol fees for a school that his wife demanded they go to. He is seriously struggeling to make ends meet in a job that recently demoted him while many others were laid off. When I told him he will be about $700 worse off a year he looked like he was ready to cry and said “its just not possible, I can’t!”
    I realise the estimator is just that, an estimate but I can see a lot of people are going to be in a fair amount of finacial trouble over this.

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    • I’m sorry for your friend, but to get the figures you described on the estimator, I had to enter an income of over $150,000…I’m not saying that you’re wrong, but it seems to me the fact that your friend can’t afford the additional $700 is peculiar to his situation and not a fault with the compensation package…

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      • protecting my identity

        JJ – my hubby and i are in the same boat. its not that we cant afford the extra $700, but we would rather be spending that towards our house deposit or towards schooling. Add the extra 10% increase onto the electricity bill (thats already raised 18%) that $700 per year could help a lot.

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        • Craig

          I think you have nailed the problem. If we don’t start looking after the environment our kids will live in a pretty ordinary place in 50 years. But most people, including myself, have not dedicated enough time or money fixing the situation, so now the government is forcing us. I don’t really have a problem with that.

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        • Kateateight

          “it’s not that we can’t afford it, it’s that we would rather spend it on…”

          This is the problem with so many people against this tax – they are short sighted and selfish.

          Everyone bang’s on about their kids welfare and education – well, how about you think about the world your kid will be living in when you’re gone. I am sure they would rather we spend the money on getting a (late) start on tackling climate change.

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        • Two Mummies

          So invest in some solar panels or a solar hot water system and your electricity bills will be reduced by MORE THAN $700.

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          • Kris2040

            I saw a story in the last few days of a bloke who has solar panels and his electricity was in credit by about $1500 because it gets sold back to the grid. I *think* it was on 7PM Project?
            They were saying that it was likely that as costs of solar power installation come down, it will become a compulsory thing for new houses being built, in the same way that all houses need to have smoke detectors, circuit breakers, water tanks…

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  18. Rick Morton

    I’ve mentioned this a few times before, but I’m not sure the CT will have the desired positive impact on the environment. I’m not sure Abbott has a better idea though. Some kind of combo maybe would be better …

    Having said that, I personally don’t mind paying more if it were to come to it to have a good outcome for the planet. And in any case, I’ll probably stand to gain (albeit about 20 cents) under this.

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    • I’m going to be an optimist on this one…now that Govt policy is in place to move away from carbon-intensive energy, I think entrepreneurs all over Australia are going to take advantage of the fact that clean-energies are going to be more cost-competitive…Australia’s economy is one of the most sophisticated in the world…as are our business leaders…over the past 30 years they have taken advantage of all the macro-economic changes thrown at them by all flavours of Govt…I actually think this will trigger a wave of clean-energy developments that may actually reduce emissions over the next 10 years at a greater rate than anyone expects…just look at the history of our country…this is the kind of change that we excel at…from multi-culturalism to deregulation…our economy and industries cope well with change…

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      • donnam

        You go JJ!!!
        I just wish i had your optimism and knowledge.

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    • donnam

      Rick I agree with what you are saying, re a good outcome for the planet. But will it? I’m totally up for saving the planet and if Australia has to make a stand first, then good on us :) I’m just not sold on how this is really going to work. Won’t most of these top 500 companies just find away around this?

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      • Rick Morton

        That was my (very fumbled) point, ha! I don’t know enough of the actual mechanics to be assured this will actually work as they say it will. But, I hope it does. And in any case, there is some brilliant tax reform in here which is a win whichever way you look at it!

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        • My gut feeling is that a lot of the big energy providers already have plans to switch to clean-energy alternatives…they’ve just been waiting for the CT and ETS to become legislation…I mean, why invest in clean-energy now when you know there are Govt hand-outs coming on the horizon…once the additional funding for clean-energy schemes is out there, and the ETS is up and running, just watch as all the clean-energy plans are found in bottom-drawers all over the place :)

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          • oopsyboops

            Thats a very good gut feeling. Someone close to me works for a coal fired power station and they are eagerly anticipating the implementation of the tax as they have several million $ worth of projects waiting to be rolled out.

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            • Alex

              Spot on. One of the reasons for the increases in power prices, is that blind freddy could see a decade ago that this was the direction the economy would have to move and they’ve been sitting on their hands waiting for some certainty to invest.

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        • Faybian

          Hasn’t the uk recently (with a lot less fuss than us) adopted a carbon tax? What about other countries? What are they doing? It would be good to see a comparison piece on this.

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          • Rick Morton

            Many other countries have adopted either a tax or a trading scheme, including Europe and some American states. I don’t have the list to hand but we are not the first. Not by a long shot.

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            • Kateateight

              Is this true? I hope so. But it is strange because so many people go on about “we make such a small contribution, so why should we be the first?”

              as if we are some pioneering geniuses.

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            • Rick Morton

              Very true.

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            • Kris2040

              Kateateight, I don’t understand why so many people insist on other countries doing stuff first – this argument has been used with the Carbon tax, same sex marriage, euthanasia…

              What is so wrong or scary about being the pioneers for stuff??

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    • Another Jo

      Aboott has no better ideas about anything. His line just seems to be say no to everything the government suggests.

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    • clairek

      I agree Rick. I can’t see how all this will actually make a difference either. It seems complicated! I’d be ok with paying extra if the $ went directly to clean energy R&D.

      I would love to know how many millions of dollars will be chewed up by new Govt depts administering this tax, as well as the cost to big business to administer it outside the $23 per tonne, because all these costs will be passed on. I hope the Govt included these costs in their financial modelling.

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  19. My partner and I are on a single income with no kids…we will be $400 dollars a year worse-off under the new tax regime. That’s about $8 a week. So, I’m one of the “millions of Australians” that will be worse off under the new tax…apparently I’m one of the people that Tony Abbott is trying to protect…but to be honest, I don’t think I’ll even notice losing $8 a week…in fact, I think because someone like me is going to pay a little more each week makes me think that the compensation package is spot on… if someone as well off as me was to get full compensation, then there’d be something wrong.

    What annoys me though is the fact that Abbott has been pushing a line that Gillard can’t be trusted and that the Carbon Tax was going to be a “Great Big New Tax” that was going to destroy Australia. It’s not. It’s very modest. Most low income families will be fully compensated…and those who wont be fully compensated, like me, are not going to be paying a huge amount extra…which means Abbott has just been running a scare-campaign…seems to me Abbott has turned out to be less trust-worthy that Gillard…

    I also can’t see where the thousands of jobs that the scare-mongers say will be lost, will actually be lost…most manufacturing industries are being compensated to cover the costs of the new tax. And don’t believe the mining industry when they tell you they are going to have to lay-off thousands of workers…that’s just bullshit…the growth in the mining industry may slow…but it will keep growing…and growth means extra jobs…the continued rise of India and China will guarantee that growth…

    So what we don’t have is a “great big new tax”. What we actually have is Tax Reform…Tax revenues are being moved away from income-tax and reapplied to the 500 top polluters in the country. This is an efficient way to change the tax base and help allow clean-energy to become more cost-effective in comparison with dirty-energy.

    Compare this to the Liberal policy of direct funding of energy-efficient programs combined with income tax cuts, without additional taxation elsewhere in the economy. Where are they going to get the billions of dollars for this? They claim they can find Govt savings, but I just don’t buy it. Not enough to cover both clean-energy programs and tax cuts…it just doesn’t make sense…in fact, it just comes across as a bribe…”vote for me, and I’ll give you ALL this money…for free”…well, that’s just insulting to my intelligence…

    Finally, for those of you who may ask, “what’s the point of doing this if countries like China aren’t?”…well, if we do nothing, why would they be bothered…if we can set an example for the rest of the world, why not? What’s wrong with Australia leading the world on this issue? I’m kind of proud that we are!

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    • susannethiebe

      love your honesty

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    • Faybian

      What most annoys me is that Tony Abbott got equal air time to the PM (and no matter what anyone thinks of her, she managed to deal with the minor party and independents to form a minority govt.) over the announcement of the carbon tax. As I remember, there was no such opportunity for the ALP when in opposition to argue against work choices when that got pushed through. There were ads opposing it by the unions and come campaign time by the ALP, as well as ads promoting the legislation.

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      • I’d also argue that Abbott has already hogged MOST of the media time over the past 18 months on this issue…it’s not like he’s been invisible :)

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        • Faybian

          It appears that we are in agreeance on this one JJ.

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          • Let’s try not to make this a habit ;-)

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            • Faybian

              Hahaha.

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        • Crystal

          But probably not doing himself any favours!

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        • Another Jo

          I agree and most of what Abbott says is scaremongering rubbish!

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    • Free Human Being

      I’d rather my $8 a week build a hospital for sick kids, or by meds for those who can not afford them.

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      • I can’t argue against that…

        Maybe we shouldn’t have been given so many income-tax cuts over the past 15 years by Govts of both persuasions…

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      • anon

        As selfish as it sounds i would rather have the $14 per week go to our house deposit fund. Every year it seems owning our own home gets further and further away with increased bills :(

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    • MissT

      I am 100% with you, JJ – if people like you & me aren’t shouldering the cost (even though my mortgage is huge and sometimes I can’t pay my bills), then they’re doing it wrong. If we’re going to make a difference, it’s going to come out of my pocket. I want my future children not to look back and say “Geez, mum’s generation really stuffed up the planet!”

      In the calculations I put we have 0 depedants. I’m not sure if that’s correct because my husband has a child and his ex wife does not work, so his child support is supposed to cover 100% of my stepkid’s expenses (I’d be surprised if it doesn’t cover more than that). But when I put in 1 it went up, so I assume that’s saying the dependant lives with us, which she doesn’t, so I’d say 0 dependants is more accurate.

      With 0 dependants the cost to us will be $783 per year with compensation of $306 – out of pocket $477 per year.

      With 1 dependant the cost to us will be $803 per year with compensation of $306 – $497 per year.

      Yep, it’s going to hurt. Worth it if it works though. And how do we know if we don’t try?

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      • Kris2040

        $477 is $9.17 a week. Refreshing to hear someone who earns a fair bit say “If I can’t cop it, then I’m doing something wrong”. :)

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    • Janey

      I don’t get why the ALP won’t just shout to the rooftops that “yes, we said no carbon tax prior to the last election but that was before we had to negotiate with the Greens and the Independents to form government”. The ‘paradigm’ shifted once they had to negotiate with others who clearly wanted reform and action. Abbott just keeps trawling out the “she’s a liar” line (very effectively for those people who don’t read below news headlines). The ALP need to mitigate that somehow and I just don’t understand why they don’t counter-argue him! Where are the details in the Coalition’s policy? We’ve seen a lot of hot air and no substance so far.

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    • fender4eva

      JJ, do you REALLY think the rest of the world gives a rat’s arse what we do ? Half of them, don’t even know where Australia is……..

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      • The average Joe in the street? No.

        Other Govts? Yes. Guaranteed there’s a quick 1 pager on the desk of every leader in the G20 this morning about this.

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        • fender4eva

          Maybe, but I wouldn’t be holding my breath, waiting for them to actually do anything……

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    • LC

      Who is this John-James? I loik ‘im!

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  20. Angie

    Good grief, I just want to sit down and cry about this. Barnaby Joyce has hit the nail on the head when he said people will be poorer under this tax. They absolutely will be.

    No big polluting company is going to look for ways to change their processes to reduce pollution.

    What they will do immediately though is pass on the cost to consumers.

    What they will also probably do is look at this as a profit increasing mechanism and pass on more than the cost of the tax to consumers under the guise of passing on the tax.

    It wil be a boon for them, and all the workers of this country (that’s you and me) will foot the bill for something that will not work. And what is the government propsing to do to deal with this issue of potential profiteering under this plan? Sweet nothing, if the fuel sector is anything to go by. Those companies have been price gouging for years and that seems to be totally acceptable.

    Not only will it not work in terms of big polluters reducing emissions, but it is highly likely to have the effect of sending MORE Australian production overseas, actually increasing global emissions and creating a higher unemployment rate.

    When we look back on this in 10 years time I have no doubt that it will be seen as catastrophe for our country, our cost of living and our economy.

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    • Kris2040

      The coalition are all for competition though, so if that happens, we as the consumers can force them to be more responsible by taking our business elsewhere!
      And you’re clearly mistaken, vast numbers of “the workers of this country” will receive compensation for any dodgy price hikes. Consumers have a lot more power than the scaremongers realise or are willing to admit. If you wouldn’t shop around just on principle, more fool you.

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      • Angie

        Compensation is all well and good, but what are you going to do if you have lost your job as a result of this tax?

        I wish I could shop around for cheaper energy providers, but in Canberra where I live there is only one energy provider (which incidentally is already ‘green’ as the power comes from the snowy hydro electric scheme). Many people are unable to shop around for power and other essentials of life.

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  21. fender4eva

    A better solution would be to work on ways to limit pollution, in the first place. This government is stumbling from one disaster to another, and we are the losers…..

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    • Rick Morton

      So more like the direct action $3.2b fund the Coalition is talking about?

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      • fender4eva

        Absolutely, Rick. Whatever it takes, to stop Labor from bankrupting the country…….

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        • Catherine

          That would be the scheme that Malcolm Turnbull described as being economically disastrous & that isn’t backed by any economist in the country.
          I don’t know how you can claim the carbon tax is bankrupting the country. How? What’s your evidence? What figures are you basing that on?

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          • fender4eva

            WILL bankrupt the country, Catherine. Welcome to the new order…….

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      • MissT

        Rick could you please write a cheat sheet on the “direct action” you’ve referred to here?

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        • Only if he also includes the coalition’s bribes in the cheat sheet as well…err, I mean unfunded tax cuts…

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    • J to the Lo

      I think in the long run it will limit pollution.

      The whole idea of the carbon tax is to help increase sales of items that don’t pollute, and reduce sales of items that do pollute. If you have a choice between two similar items, but one costs more because of the pollution and is therefore more expensive, which will you choose? Most people will choose the cheaper, less polluting one.

      Thats how I see it anyway…

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      • Nate

        The only problem is that it’s not a closed system.

        There is a 3rd option.
        Buying a product that’s made in another country without a Carbon Tax.
        So it will be cheaper.

        Outcome will be Australian made products will have another burden to deal with in competing against foreign importers.

        An inverse tarrif of sorts.

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        • Nate, don’t forget…as Rick noted above: “About $9.2 billion is being made available to ‘emissions intensive, trade exposed’ industries such as coal and steel to help them make changes with out losing their competitive advantage.”

          The Govt has thought of this…

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