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Screen shot 2012 12 16 at 8.53.04 PM EXCLUSIVE: Abbott has questions to answer on RU486.

Health Minister Tanya Plibersek says Opposition Leader Tony Abbott still has questions to answer about abortion drug, RU486.

 

 

By TANYA PLIBERSEK

For many Australian women the decision to terminate a pregnancy will be the most difficult they’ll ever make.

But it should always be one for the woman herself with the support of her family and doctor. Its not a decision that any government should make for her.

At the moment the majority of terminations in Australia are surgical, usually performed under sedation in hospitals or special clinics.

A much smaller number are “medical” terminations where mifepristone, better known as RU486, a synthetic steroid, is used to end early pregnancy.

Mifepristone is on the World Health Organisation’s list of essential medicines and its use has been endorsed by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. It was first registered in France and China in 1988 and is now registered in about 50 countries including the UK, the USA and New Zealand. Tens of millions of women around the world have used it.

No termination is without risks, but the risk of dying is higher from taking viagra than from medical termination.

An important difference when comparing medical and surgical termination of pregnancy may be that a woman need not travel to a hospital or clinic but can be supervised by a doctor who has had special training and be in her home with family support.

This would be particularly beneficial for women living in the country who wouldn’t have to travel long distances  and stay away from home overnight or longer and find extra money for transport and accommodation.

As health minister I believe that mifepristone and its companion drug misoprostol should go through the same rigorous processes as any drug allowed to be used in Australia.

In the past, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has taken a different view. In 2006, when health minister, Mr Abbott voted in Parliament to maintain his veto power over RU486 – he wanted to keep RU486 a special case so he could prevent it being imported into Australia.

Screen shot 2012 12 16 at 8.53.35 PM EXCLUSIVE: Abbott has questions to answer on RU486.

Tony Abbott facing questions from the media.

Since a 1996 political deal between PM John Howard and conservative Tasmanian Senator Brian Harradine, the health minister was given the power to effectively ban the importation of the drug. But a 2006 conscience vote led by a cross-party coalition of women MPs overturned the veto. Current Opposition health spokesman Peter Dutton also voted to maintain the veto.

Since then, RU486 has been available in Australia through a small number of doctors who have had to specially import the drug.  In August, the Therapeutic Goods Administration approved an application by non-profit organisation MS Health, to import the drug, making it much more accessible.

As Opposition Leader, Mr Abbott has for months ducked questions on the TGA listing of RU486. But that all changed last week when Mamamia publisher, Mia Freedman, went on ABC radio and said Mr Abbott, as the aspiring prime minister, needed to clarify his position on RU486. “Because he’s never addressed that on the record … it sort of lingered and festered like this bit of a suspicious issue among women.”

Mr Abbott responded, saying that as health minister, he did not receive any applications to regulate RU486. He said, “Had any such application come before me, I would have dealt with it on the basis of the science and the expert advice.” In fact Mr Abbott misrepresented advice given to him by the Chief Medical Officer at the time.

And his latest sound-bite on this vital issue skirts around what he did and said when he was a Howard government minister. If Mr Abbott has changed his view on abortion and RU486, he should tell people.

Otherwise we can only conclude that he still believes that “abortion is the easy way out.”

Tanya Plibersek is the Federal Minister for Health and Member for Sydney.

 

Editor’s Note: While Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is unfortunately unavailable to write a response to Minister Plibersek at this stage, his office has provided Mamamia with the following comment:  “Administration of RU486, as with other drugs, is a matter for the Therapeutic Goods Administration (the TGA) and the Coalition will not change that.”

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184 Comments so far

  1. Liz

    I have trawled through all the comments. Clearly if a woman’s life is lost terminating another life inside her, that is one life too many to loose. RU486 really needs through investigation to see how safe it really is.

    Is a drug or a medically induced termination the only method to offer a woman who finds herself with an unplanned pregnancy and in need of a loving alternative?

    Where are we as a society that we don’t reach out to the women of Australia with a loving alternative to the termination of their child’s life no matter how developed it is?

    How about asking the health minister about the loving alternatives the Australia Gov’t is channeling money into to give these woman a chance to consider giving their new baby a chance at life?

    We all find ourselves in life in situations that are not part of our plans.

    I would be interested if there are any?

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  2. undecided

    I am not sure exactly where I stand on this issue. I am certainly pro choice but I am also coming across many women who just default to the abortion choice. I am not talking about the traumatised women who make a difficult decision one time. I am talking about the women who are having the procedure two or three or four times. Surely, this suggests that it has become an easy option for some and allows them to make irrespinsible choices. I dont know the stats but I would be interested to find out how common multiple abortions are because I know of two girls in my town and unfortunately I dont think they are exceptional cases. So Tanya, more facts would be good. Less emotional strings pulling at my conscience. How safe is this drug? How rarely or how often is it taken in the US, UK ETC and how easily accessible would it be? One visit to the GP? Five? How will situations be assessed? Etc. Stop playing the blame game and putting Tony down for asking more questions and trying to establish boundaries. Just give us the facts.

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    • bbbanderas

      Tanya – please ask Minister Tony Burke to make clear to the Australian people his views on abortion …!
      Another misogynist , oops ! … me thinks he’s in the Labor Party .

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  3. Anon

    Actually Ms Plibersek, you need to spend a bit more time checking facts before accusing anyone of anything.

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  4. bbbanderas

    I guess this is the start of the social media “girls” forum with the PM.
    My understanding is Tony Abbott is against abortion unless it becomes a critical health issue with mother and baby . Is he 100% Right or 100% Wrong i dont’t know ? It’s not about RU486 or any other drug R2D2 !
    Just like several of your fellow ministers who don’t believe in abortion by choice at any time – would you like to name them or shall i ?
    Tanya is the minister who closed the Chronic Disease Dental Scheme and gave the States a couple of hundred million and said you look after them for the next 19 months . Yes,it wasn’t perfect but to “scrap” it without trying to make adjustments is a disgrace. RORTED to the figure of $21.5 million ? and the week after the scheme was scrapped changed that to Half a million – the other $21 million was clerical errors , misunderstandings.
    Patients recieving Radiation,Chemotherapy and Transplant patients that require urgent teeth and gum procedures to limit the risk of life threatening infections will hold this government to account.
    And yes Ms.Plibersek women have these health issues as well as men

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  5. Bradley

    Abbott, Abbott, Abbott ! Again !

    You win, Ms Plibersek !

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  6. needshelp

    It is hard not to note that Mamamia has consistently taken a pro-labor position, supporting labors attacks on the man, rather than focusing on the totality of a socialist versus conservative government, which is fine, but would sit more comfortably if Mamamia’s pro left position were more clearly publicised. Notwithstanding I do find the arguements presented in the discussion below very narrow. I am pro-abortion but I find it a bit simplistic to say it is completely a woman’s choice. Maybe predominantly but there is a father and another life involved. I know it is only a collection of cells but in what way am I not?

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    • Anonymous

      It’s not YOUR body. It is a woman’s choice to do with her body what she wants. Sorry, but it is not up to you.

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      • Anon

        If you want to take that position, then you must also absolve men of all responsibility for financial support of the child if you choose to keep the child.

        You can’t have it both ways.

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        • Anonymous

          Yes, we can have it both ways. If I decide to keep the baby, you have to pay, if we split. If YOU don’t want to pay, don’t get a woman pregnant in the first place , use protection yourself, eg condoms, pretty simple. See how it’s my body , my choice now.

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          • Anonymous

            That argument does not follow. can the girl not bring the condom? Or is it the guy has to because he obviously wants sex more than she does? Your statement takes the women’s movement back 30 years. It takes two people to have consensual sex. And last I checked, women are just as capable of organising contraception as the men are. If BOTH people decide to have sex, BOTH should have a say about the baby and BOTH should take responsibility. Either we are equals or not.

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            • Anonymous

              It’s really not that hard to understand. sigh.

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      • needshelp

        Right, yeah, forgot about that – and I assume that you would also agree that, if a woman decides to keep some cells in her body, against the wishes of the “father” (is that what you call him?), she wouldn’t expect any support?

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        • anon2

          What?!?

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        • Anonymous

          If a man doesn’t want children, don’t get a woman pregnant. Use protection. YOU can be in charge of whether or not a woman gets pregnant. Then you will never be in that position of having to pay the mother of your child , child support, if she decides to keep the baby against your wishes.

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          • myowngal

            Its either my body and I’m responsible for what I do to/with it, or it’s the man’s fault for ‘getting’ me pregnant. I’m confused which is it?

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            • Anonymous

              It is my body, just like men are in charge of theirs. So, if for some reason, all the contraception both parties have used fails, it’s up to the women whether or not she goes ahead with growing that child in HER belly or not, regardless.

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  7. Anon for this one

    Recently I had to sit through a harrowing ten minutes, where the 16 year old I mentor had to do a pregnancy test. There was the faintest of faint lines on the positive side of the test. Not enough to be 100% sure it was negative. So we spoke about what she would do…could she tell her parents? Hell no. Dad had made it clear that she would be kicked out of home if she fell pregnant. She made it clear that she was only a child herself how would she take care of a baby…especially with no support. There were tears, she was so very frightened. So I calmly explained to her that if she was pregnant and she chose to have an abortion, what would happen. Please put yourself in her shoes…I dare anyone to be having that conversation and NOT want to be able to say…”it’s okay. We will go to the doctors and if this is the choice you want to make then there is some medication they can give you that will induce a miscarriage and it will just be like a very heavy period”. As aposed to …”well we will have to take you to the doctors and then you will be referred for a small procedure. You will have to go to a hospital or a clinic where you will have to have a general anaesthetic. They will remove the foetus by going through your vagina. It’s okay it doesn’t hurt. You’ll wake up and it will all be over. You’ll have to stick around for a little while in recovery and then I will take you home where you will still have some heavy bleeding”. Oh plus adding that we will organise some therapy. Sorry if it was a bit discriptive for you but that’s is the reality.
    I would of loved to have given her, my very frightened 16 year old friend the “easy option”. I guarantee so would you…liberal, labor or greens voters alike.
    Happy ending….test the next morning was negative, period arrived that night one week late. Thankfully.

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    • shakes head

      Very sad to think that you could not have come up with more “choices” for this young girl than to get an abortion. A better next step would been a crisis pregnancy clinic with professionals that could her some real advice, rather than your limited view of “dad will kick you out, only 16 = abortion best option”. There are services outthere to support women when all others have failed her, e.g. “The Babes Project”. If her dad is so shite of a man not to support her daughter and his growing grandchild, then a better option is to leave him not kill your child, because that just makes you no better than him, really… abandoning your baby in a time of need, like your father says he will abandon you when you need him.

      So, she’s not pregnant afterall… good, but it doesnt change the fact that her dad is a horrible person. Maybe you could mentor her about improving her relationship with him or getting away from an abusive environment. But im guessing that not your area…

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  8. Brad

    Fake fight Tanya.

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  9. The Tip Master

    Can someone provide the link to me on the Mamamia article on how Labor are redirecting a large portion of foreign aid dollar to….Australia. I can’t seem to find it at the moment.

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    • kit

      can someone provide some common sense to the tip master’s mind? specifically, that mamamia can publish whatever the hell it wants to.

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  10. Alice K

    Well if the Minsiter was serious about womens health, she would look at reinstating the medicare benefits for private obstetrics that they cut in 2010/11. Having my second baby this year will cost 30% more just in obstetric fees than my first baby in 2008. Then maybe she (or the PM) should look at more affordable and quality childcare options…

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    • The Tip Master

      I so agree (not that I’m planning another child.) Labor interested in women’s health? Ha! I can’t believe the differences in the cost of obstetrics between my 2006 pregnancy and 2011 pregnancy…and it wasn’t just inflation.

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      • Anonymous

        You mean the cost in private obstetrics don’t you?

        My babies were all free, with brilliant midwife care

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        • Anonymous

          Well my first would have likely not made in under the public system.

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          • Bj

            I can’t agree more. This is the first thing the Labor gov’t needs to do to support the health of women. Having had a spontaneous abortion at 36 weeks gestation and 5 subsequent live children under the watchful eye of very experienced obstetricans, I might have died in the public system. I have had 4 manual removals of placentas and could have bled to death had I been left like another woman in the pulbic system in the same regional hospital only to have it removed in surgery. Even then I lost 800mls of blood.

            All 3 of my different obstertricans left the public system because they were tired of undoing emergencies that could have been prevented with careful management of the pregnancy.

            It is time the Labor gov’t addressed some of the real issues in obstetrics for Australian women instead of buck passing to the opposition leader. He is not the government and not able to make these life saving decisions for women.

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    • An Idle Dad

      I understand your frustration, I’ve got four kids and the last ones (twins) were done with an OB.

      From my point of view, on one hand you’ve got a government that’s done things like introduce paid parental leave for everyone, increased carer’s pay and introduced a National Disability Insurance Scheme.

      On the other, you’ve got a guy who, as health minister, made lots of questionable decisions around women’s health and sort of mumbles a bit when you ask him to explain it.

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  11. jo

    Give it a rest Tanya. As usual you took all words surrounding what he said to give it the meaning you want. People are sick and tired of you and labor changing words time make Abbott out to be a misogynist. Tell me how many women shelters and causes have you raised funds for in your life? Are you a volunteer fire fighter? If women want abortions ect they have access and don’t need misrepresentation from you or labor to get it. I guess we know now why the function for bloggers was held by Gillard.

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    • B

      Actually Jo, I lived through the meaning that Tony Abbott gave it – no access to a non-surgical abortion for a miscarriage.
      I don’t care if it’s Liberal or Labor – I’m a swinging voter. But I won’t vote for a man who makes medical decisions on the basis of faith.
      If Tony Abbott wants to be PM I would like to know that he can make decisions for ALL Australians. Not just those who happen to agree with him.
      And I don’t want my politicians to be volunteer anything. People like my mother do that. I would prefer that MPs have the time to focus on reading the material and speaking to a range of people that inform them in making good decisions. And that goes for both sides of politics.

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  12. Conservative Feminist

    Australians need to keep asking questions about RU 486, its safety and the way in which it is used to ‘cut corners’ in providing women with abortions.

    In the United States, in some states RU 486 is being used in ‘web cam abortions’…. cheaper, quicker, easier, less doctor dependent. Women do not actually attend a clinic or see a real doctor, women simply talk to a doctor over a webcam and are given the RU 486 and prostoglandin pill that expels the aborted fetus.

    Is this an advancement in care for women seeking abortions?

    See: “Web cam abortions expand RU 486″ @
    http://www.telepresenceoptions.com/2012/12/web_cam_abortions_expand_ru_48/

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    • B

      Why are you so against RU486? A person seeking an abortion will have one. Surgical or otherwise.

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    • Kris2040

      How do you get pills via webcam? I think it’s a good idea if you have the consultation, get the pills, then stay in visual contact and communication. Why is that bad?

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    • Cleo

      If medical abortions are being granted over webcams, I would expect that there are reasons why those people can not access face to face medical care. Is this ‘cutting corners’ or is this helping people who may have no other option?
      I would also like to know whether mifepristone is any more dangerous than surgical abortion, as I have not personally found any evidence to say so. I am all for questioning medications and medical procedures, however once something is proven safe and effective, shouldn’t it be for individuals to then question and decide for themselves?

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  13. An Idle Dad

    Got to be an outlier poll (the movement is too large) but to show how close the next election is going to be, the latest Morgan poll has Labor in an election winning lead – overall and with both men and women.

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4852/

    Personally, I’d prefer Liberals win the next election, but under Turnbull instead of Abbott.

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    • The Wounded Bull

      Stick with the Greens again ID. That way, you can be one of the rare 10% or so that voted for them last time that will vote for them again.

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      • An Idle Dad

        I pick my party based on policies presented at each election. For the last fifteen years, I’ve tended to vote for either the Liberals or the Greens (which are not as far apart as you imagine). I feel like I should vote Labor (and sometimes I do) but often their performance is not the light on the hill stuff I really want.

        And, as the Greens are opening discussing if they’d preference Liberals over Labor if Turnbull was leader, so I just might vote Green, and do my preferences that way.

        With Abbott, no chance.

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    • Kate Hunter

      I’m with you, Idle. Hoping Abbott does something super-stupid and gets rolled. There is always hope! (For the record, I voted Labor in the last federal and state – ie Qld elections).

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      • Guest

        How much more stupid can Abbott get? Short of going completely bonkers and maybe running stark naked over the roof of parliament house.

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  14. Alex

    It’s broader than Abbott in the Liberal Party. Let’s not forget his junior minister at the time Christopher Pyne. The Liberal Party needs to clear that whole lot out before I can feel comfortable voting for them.

    http://theconversation.edu.au/lets-be-clear-on-tony-abbotts-attacks-on-abortion-10263

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  15. guest

    As Tanya is now the Health Minister, this is clearly just the case of politicising the matter. I think his values and thoughts on the issue are well documented. Just as individuals have the right to choose, so to do leaders have the right to make decisions that they believe are in the best interest of the nation. As then Health Minister, brother, father and husband, it is hard to imagine he was not briefed on every possible point of view on the subject. His lament “abortion is the easy way out” is surely a reference to society, not to women.

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    • Ellen

      Due to RU486 being regulated by the Government, isn’t it important that it IS ‘politicised’? How can it not be? Unless politicians are given a conscience vote on the issue?

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    • Kris2040

      Surely it was Tony Abbott who politicised it with his actions when he was Health Minister?

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    • Lozcat11

      Seeing as it is ONLY women getting abortions I very much doubt that his “abortion is the easy way out” lament is directed at society.

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      • Anon

        Yes, women are the only ones getting abortions, but did you ever stop to consider the effect on men who are not even informed that their wives/partners are pregnant and she has a termination?

        It sucks.

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  16. lorna

    i agree this should be available to everyone. women should be able to make there own choices

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  17. Conservative Feminist

    I have a question for Ms Plibersek (and Ms Gillard) – Is supporting abortion on demand, synonymous with being a Labor party woman?

    I was at a social function on the weekend, where I was speaking to a Liberal party woman involved in politics (I won’t identify whom)… she explained that she had considered joining the Labor party but had been told that as someone who could not support ‘abortion on demand’ law reforms, she had ‘no chance’ in the Labor party.

    Has the Labor Party become this narrow? Have ‘pro-abortion on demand’ women like Ms Plibersek hijacked the Labor party from women who hold a breadth of opinions on the subject?

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    • B

      Do you actually know what ‘abortion on demand’ means? It means that when a woman is seeking to terminate her pregnancy, it is her choice – a decision made between her and her doctor – and that there are safe options available for her to do this.
      What is there to oppose about this idea?
      Do I wish there were less abortions? Of course. Could I have an abortion myself? Probably not.
      But I will always support a woman’s right to choose ‘an abortion on demand’.

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      • Anonymous

        Does that abortion on demand mean at any time during a pregnancy? Because if it does I completely disagree.

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        • catherine

          Abortion on demand means you can have an abortion at any time during the pregnancy for no reason at all, other than you wish to have one. In victoria you can have an abortion of a full term baby. There does not have to be anything wrong with the baby. We had a case where a woman was having twin boy babies and she wanted a girl so she had an abortion ( cant remember how far along the pregnancy was)

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          • Jessica

            Catherine, that’s not true. If you want argue against choice then use facts.

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  18. David

    Tanya, I acknowledge your views here. We all want minimal risks for women in medical procedures and it is understood that this is never a simple decision for women, having heard first hand personal accounts of various circumstances.

    However in WA, the number of terminations has reached extreme proportions. There are approximately 100,000 terminated children each year, most of them funded by the Government through Medicare. You do not mention the child’s right to a life at all only that a woman is the only person who has the right to decide. What about the sanctity of life? Isn’t that the primary principle? Therefore there is a role for Government in setting policy for this.

    Regards

    David

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    • Lulu

      David, in the absence of terminations, when those 100,000 children are born, you will be prepared to support & accomodate them, I’m sure. No?

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      • Anonymous

        Considering how many Australian couples want to adopt children and are unable too I would suggest that a good portion of that 100,000 would be supported. Not that I’m against abortion, I’m just saying that there are so many Australian’s wanting to adopt and cant.

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        • Liz

          I know many who would to adopt and I think we could easily find enough like them that equals 100 000 sets of parents to adopt these little babies.

          My friend adopted 6 all from Overseas, what about if she had 6 of those little Australians in her family who would now be grown adults.

          Pity these Australian children were not given a chance at life to be loved by another who desperately want children but are prevented by unexplained infertility.

          Time to review the laws on adoption and termination in Australia.

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    • Kris2040

      The sanctity of life is only the primary principle if that is your belief system.

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    • Ladybug

      And if these 100,000 children were born to parents who by their own action in terminating the pregnancy acknowledged for whatever reason they could not raise the child- what becomes of them?

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    • Faybian

      David, some of those 100,000 terminations are D & Cs that are for reasons other than a termination, as in after incomplete miscarriages etc. Given that it is estimated between 1 in 5 or 7 pregnancies results in miscarriage, that would be a sizeable number. They are counted as terminations by pro lifers because the Medicare item number is the same for both procedures and it is an easy way to make an emotive arguement against abortion.

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      • r

        Thank-you Faybian, always a voice of reason. It is so easy for pro-lifers to make everything seem so much worse. Given the number of people I know that have had several d&c’s following miscarriages, I wouldn’t mind betting they make a big part of that number.

        Not that I am against abortion at all. I just hate seeing facts misused

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      • dr_e

        Yes, Fabian is correct. That number that David has quoted is NOT the number of terminations that are done in WA. It is not rare for a miscarriage to end up requiring a D&C in the public system.

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      • mellington

        Thank you! I give this response an A+

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      • shakes head

        Faybian – maybe Medicare should have a separate line item for termination and miscarriage D&Cs so the abortions cant hide behind that figure. If abortion is such a good thing for our society, why not openly count it, allow for truth in statistics, instead of mudding up the numbers. Other countries have much clearer statistics. I dont think it is a coincidence that more precise abortion statistics in Australia are hard to find.

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    • Bree

      David, those statistics are a complete lie. The rates of abortion in WA are less then 1/10 of that annually. Yet another example of ‘pro-life’ conservatives misrepresenting statistics to shock and therefore recruit people to the cause as Faybian has pointed out.

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      • shakes head

        bah, 100,000 babies killed or just 1 – it is still killing in the name of convenience. Those numbers, accurate or not, do nothing to change the fact that real little human lives are being killed and women are being lied to about what they are actually doing… being told abortion is harmless, its just a tiny clump of cells. These women dont agree: http://iregretmyabortion.org.au/stories/

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        • Kris2040

          I don’t regret my abortion at all. Many don’t. And we’re not that thick that we don’t understand what abortion actually is.

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    • Sparky

      David, can you please show me a link to a study or similar to confirm those stats? You’ve just suggested that more than 4% of the entire population of WA is the number of ‘terminated children’ per year.

      A quick Google search shows 8885 in WA in 2009.
      http://www.health.wa.gov.au/publications/documents/Abortion_Report_06-09.pdf

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    • Dee of Adelaide

      David please remove my five ‘d and c’s (removal of the product of conception) from your bullcrap statistics. They were much wanted, dead fetus’ and whilst I support a woman’s right to choose to my bootstraps, I will not have those five counted in your completely crap statistics.

      Anyone care to join me in bringing that number down?

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      • Faybian

        Yes, I have 3 he can take off that number too.

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  19. debs

    “…This abortion story on RU486 is a bit of a beat-up don’t you think? There is a medicare rebate for abortion which is also available for the most part in the public hospital system – the Coalition didn’t and won’t change this…”

    There is a huge difference in choice, one is a surgical option and the other is a medical one. If it is your choice or need to undergo an abortion, why be forced to have surgery when you can undergo a safe, medical option, monitored by a qualified Dr?

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  20. Jay Stephens

    Typo:
    “conscious vote” should read “conscience vote”.

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  21. An Idle Dad

    Mr Abbott has been caught trying to rewrite history before to be appealing to the women’s vote.

    On Nov 16th 2012, Mr Abbott tweeted: Pleased to see research on the positive impacts of Gardasil being on the PBS; a decision I made as health minister http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/life-saving-vaccine-is-blitzing-cervical-cancer-virus/story-e6frf7kx-1226517718064

    Of course, what really happened was he called the life saving vaccine ‘not value for money’ at the time and Howard overruled him.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/cancer-vaccine-not-before-2008-abbott/2006/11/10/1162661861926.html

    We’ve seen how he threw Slipper to the dogs for a shot at power, what do you think he’d do to you?

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    • Anonymous

      Exactly.

      When is MM going to talk about the LNP wrecking Peter slippers life in order to attempt to get rid of the Gillard government??

      A recent poll (admittedly a newspaper one I think) said that 97% of people thought that Abbott was a liability to the LNP, I wonder when he will get rolled? And gd forbid who will replace him?

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      • Alice

        Didn’t you read Peter slipper’s text messages? He did a good job of wrecking his own life.

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        • Anonymous

          I don’t agree. He made a few distastful remarks. I bet you read through almost anyone’s text history and you’ll find something to be ashamed of.

          Ashby is a disgrace as is everyone in the LNP who helped him

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          • jo

            Slipper was not cleared of sexual harassment remember and his behaviour and texts are what put him out of a job. Not the court case. The evidence of sexual harassment was never seen by the judge. And what would Gillard and co be saying if Ashby was a woman?

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    • TwoDogs

      ……provide for a better life for me and my kids and increase the prosperity and wellbeing of nation.

      But nice try idle dad. And by the way, your last sentence, that’s more than a rewrite of history that’s a complete flip.

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      • O's Mum

        Ummm… Idle Dad, if Mr Abbott ‘threw Slipper to the dogs for a shot at power” what do you call the knifing Gillard gave Rudd???

        Think that anyone – Labor supporter or not – would be a bit ashamed to bring out that line given the history of the current Government!

        As for rewriting history I think the PM is a master… it took me about a month to work out that a Carbon Price wasn’t a Tax… or was it… or is it a levy… or… Oh that’s right – it’s actually a great, big, fat tax – that we were never going to have under a Government she leads.

        Seriously.

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        • An Idle Dad

          Well I voted for the Greens, so the carbon tax is a promised kept.

          As for Rudd, she challenged his leadership, he resigned and she was elected unopposed. He later became the Foriegn Minister. Brutal? Yes? A knifing? Maybe. Framing him for sexual misconduct in an attempt to gain political advantage? Not even close.

          That’s your Mr Morals who did that.

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          • The Wounded Bull

            The Greens wanted way more than the tax we got ID, so not a promise kept at all. If we got the ‘fairies at the bottom of the garden’ Greens version (the targets they wanted and that you so eagerly voted for ID), it would have destroyed Australias economy, no ifs or buts. They really are off with the pixies that lot.

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            • An Idle Dad

              The only folk off with the pixies are the denialists, who just “know” it’s all a conspiracy.

              And wasn’t the carbon tax supposed to destroy the economy? You got that wrong too.

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            • The Wounded Bull

              Another misdirection ID. Well done.

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        • Anonymous

          Really – get over it. It is end 2012. This is the latest news. This is from the SMH: “this would have to be one of the grubbiest, underhand, unmeritorious, political assaults on a government in recent democratic memory, fanned by leading adornments of the Liberal Party.”

          And while we are on the carbon tax, why do you object to a price on carbon anyway? Havent you heard “emissions have increased 54 per cent since 1990, putting the world on-track to be between 4 and 6 degrees hotter by 2100 unless action is taken.”

          Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/six-degrees-of-devastation-20121207-2b1d5.html#ixzz2FTOqgTum

          Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/ashby-case-a-shocking-spectacle-20121213-2bcgg.html#ixzz2FTMtalc8

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        • Faybian

          Aaah, the “big, fat tax” line again. Did it really take a month for you to realise that it was a tax, given that this was the very sound bite we heard relentlessly out of the mouths of Coalition MPs leading up to it’s introduction?

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      • An Idle Dad

        Really? That’s not how the judge described it. Or anyone without blinkers.

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    • Kris2040

      I’d never heard about this before finding that article on his site, but saw this about gardasil:

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/i-could-be-seen-as-cruel-on-gardasil-abbott/story-e6frg6nf-1111112494271

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  22. Kris2040

    Can we have some clarification on why Tanya Plibersek, as Health Minister, can’t/hasn’t pushed RU486 through? Does the TGA not have to listen to the health minister? I don’t know what the separation of powers is and would like it explained. Jamila?

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    • An Idle Dad

      The Minister doesn’t control the TGA (as per the repealing of the 1996 Harradine amendment in 2006). The TGA makes it’s own decisions so, no, it does not have to listen to the Health Minister.

      The drug has been approved in Australia since 2006. In the SMH today it states “The drug’s previous limited availability was largely due to a lack of interest by major pharmaceutical companies to import the drug for sale in Australia”

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      • jamilarizvi

        Well, I came to reply and Idle Dad has already done a far better job than I would have :D (Thanks!)

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  23. Sue

    So sick and tired of Labor talking about Tony Abbott all the time.

    If I went for a job interview I would hardly spend the whole time talking about how awful the other candidate was and why they shouldn’t hire the other person.

    Government, get on with being the Government I beg you!

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  24. PY

    Tanya is now the health minister. What, if anything, is she doing to rectify this situation? Tony Abbott definitely hindered to the point of halting this drug, but now it’s time for the current minister to step up. TGA approval is great, but what about PBAC approval so that it’s affordable for all those who may need it.

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  25. Annie Skeffington

    Come on Ladies,

    This abortion story on RU486 is a bit of a beat-up don’t you think? There is a medicare rebate for abortion which is also available for the most part in the public hospital system – the Coalition didn’t and won’t change this. I’d be more interested in an end to the political slanging match about gender issues and other distractions and focus on the real stuff like childcare, the economy and my latest ridiculous electricity bil……….

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    • charliemama

      Childcare!!!!!!!!! geeeeez, it is so expensive for lower income earners like me. In fact it is for everybody. It provides little motivation to go back to work when you know all of your income will be going to childcare. I know mine will. I have a friend who earns above $100k yet because she has a mortgage, and needs an au pair and childcare, she cannot do anything (e.g. go on holidays etc)… I don’t think childcare workers should get paid less, they care for my child and I want them to enjoy their job. The government should seriously address this issue.

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      • Amandarose

        Really? I earn about that and I think the 50 rebate is fantastic. I am way better off working. Maybe she has a big mortgage?

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        • Anonymous

          must be huge.

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      • Kris2040

        Why does she need an au pair and childcare? If the mortgage is stopping her from doing anything else, perhaps the mortgage is too big.

        I agree that childcare is a massive issue that needs to be addressed, but I don’t think using your “poor” friend who earns in excess of $100K is a very good choice for an example about people being hard done by!

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    • Kate

      Um, no. Abortion is still very limited in terms of public access in most states, what with Ithaca still being a criminal offence and all. In QLD, for example, the state health department themselves estimate that only around 1% of terminations are performed in public facilities. Women experiencing DV or whose pregnancies result from sexual assault are regularly turned away from public hospitals. And that’s no beat up.

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      • Carole

        I agree Kate. Access to safe, effective, affordable abortion will always be a contentious debate, which tends to polarise the community: that’s why abortion is not compulsory!! Women undertake terminations for so many reasons, and they are valid to that women at that time. I really despise the manner in which women’s reproductive rights become a political football before elections, where so many men slink out from their caves to tell women what they should be able to do. Ms Plibersek did not politicise the discussion: conservative anti-choice people do it every election. Look at Senator Madigan’s deliberate misinformation. If you track Abbott’s statements about abortion, it’s really hard to know what he believes – I presume whatever he thinks might gain him votes. I have never had an abortion (though have added to the stats by having a couple of D & Cs) but I think it time for Tony Abbott to retract his statement that women deciding to have an abortion are ‘taking the easy way out’.

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  26. Guest

    “But a 2006 conscious vote led by a cross-party coalition of women MPs overturned the veto” I assume she means “conscience” rather than “conscious”. Given she’s told us how Tony Abbott and the current health spokesman voted on this, I find it curious that she didn’t mention that it was also opposed by quite a number of ALP members (it’s pretty easy to check Hansard). Do they also have similar questions to answer or is it only Liberal members? No doubt someone can explain how a vote by Tony Abbott is evidence of deep rooted misogny while exactly the same vote by a member of their preferred political party is not even worth mentioning.

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  27. Conservative Feminist

    Tony Abbott’s concerns about RU 486 were reasonable and legitimate given the potential problems with this mode of abortion. I personally have always felt that it is a ‘slack’ duty of care by doctors to prescribe RU 486 and send a woman home to miscarry her fetus. Women, I think have been misled to believe that they are being advantaged by this method, when in fact one of the great motivators for widespread use of RU 486 is economics: its cheap and low care by doctors.

    Ms Plibersek – who would be acting under the direction of Ms Gillard – is trying to paint Tony Abbott (or any man for that matter) as sexist simply for having concerns about the widespread prevelance of abortion. The truth is we women should celebrate any man showing care and responsibility on this important topic. I worry more about politicians who enact laws like the Victorian abortion laws which allow abortion on demand – no questions – up until 24 weeks (that’s 6 months).

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    • overit

      They’re not men’s bodies, they’re ours. That’s why. Very straightforward.

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      • Anon

        It might be your body but the child is the product of man and woman.

        Stop being obtuse.

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    • AllyL

      Celebrate? The truth is ‘we women’ should do nothing of the sort.

      I’m confused by your name Conservative Feminist. Are you really a feminist? Have you done Cailtin Moran’s simple test?

      “Put your hands down your pants, go on. Good stuff. Got a vagina? Want to be in control of it? Yes? Congrats, welcome to feminism.”

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      • Conservative Feminist

        Wo, that’s really sad. Women’s lives should be governed by more than reference to their genitalia. I think with my brain. I’m sorry that your feminist identity can be reduced to such a crude definition.

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        • maccalogic

          All people think with their brain, that’s what it’s for. Genitalia had many purposes, one of which is birthing, if the owner decides it to be in their best interests.

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    • B

      Conservative Feminist – I’m sorry to burst your bubble but the reason doctors prefer RU486 is because it’s less invasive. My brother-in-law is an obstetrician and recommended I keep surgical instruments as far away from my uterus as possible.
      When I had a d&c for a miscarriage I had to sign a two page form which outlined all of the horrible things that can happen – including having a hole punched in my uterus (reading this while trying to have a baby wasn’t reassuring). Without going into detail, my recovery from the procedure took several months. My recovery from RU486 for another miscarriage was much faster and I could try to fall pregnant again sooner.
      While everyone would like the abortion rate to be lower, that’s a separate issue.

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  28. Anonymous

    Abbott has questions to answer on many things, this isn’t the most important of them.

    Abbott needs to answer why he’s still supporting his ‘friend’ Mal Brough despite a federal judge’s scathing judgment of him and his involvement in trumped up charges intended solely to cause political strife. He needs to answer why he thinks it’s ok for this ‘friend’ to be so deeply involved in this affair which wasted the court’s time and taxpayer money? He needs to answer why, given the court’s judgement, Mal Brough is a fit and proper person to hold Liberal Party pre-selection for a federal seat. He needs to answer why he hasn’t even bothered to read the court’s judgement.

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    • O's Mum

      And while we’re at it Anonymous, could Ms Gillard please answer questions in relation to why she is still supporting her ‘colleague’ Craig Thompson and why the enquiry into his involvement in the Health Union scandal has taken longer than the Nuremberg trials after WWII? (Seriously, it has!)

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      • Anonymous

        What support would that be? In April 2012 Craig Thompson announced his intention to sit on the crossbench as an independent member of parliament.

        Given the remarks of the judge in the Ashby/Slipper case, perhaps Mal Brough should stand as an independent candidate instead of being the pre-selected candidate for the Liberal Party for the federal seat of Fisher.

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      • Linda

        Craig thompson left the labor party ages ago and is not het caucus colleague.
        His case is now before the courts, the FWA inquiry having been concluded.
        If you want to score points, it’s best to know facts first.

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  29. Emma

    I am a firm believer that all people have a right to their own religious beliefs – whatever they may be. BUT those beliefs should NEVER EVER interfere with the rights of the rest of the population.

    Politicians that cannot put aside their beliefs, to consider the greater and varying needs of the Australian population should NOT be MPs.

    This includes Tony Abbott.

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    • cool beans

      and they should definitely NOT be PM’s either.

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    • Conservative Feminist

      The only problem with that position is that everyone’s ‘beliefs’ guide their leadership positions. The radical abortion law reforms that went through in Victoria were motivated by people who ‘believed’ that a human life in-utero is not equivalent to a regular human life. Atheists like Ms Gillard are having a huge impact on social and moral decisions in Australia. Its impossible to say, “I am a person of no belief”. We just have to identify which beliefs we value most.

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      • Kris2040

        Why is atheists having an impact on decisions a bad thing? How does making laws based on no religious affiliation adversely affect anyone when everyone is free to adhere to whatever doctrine they choose?
        A far more worrying scenario would be someone in power making laws based on a specific ideology, thereby forcing others to adhere to it when it’s not their choice.

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    • Guest

      Surely one can not be expected to vote against his/her conscience. If I believe (as I do) that (planned) abortion is murder – then there is no way that I could vote for it. Leave Abbott alone.. at least he has the dignity to stand up for something rather than just talk as the blogs/media/self-interest groups make noise. PS I am not sure when RU46 works.. but I believe from conception there is life… certainly 21days after conception (before you know you are pregnant) you can hear a heart beat… Woemns choice? I wish life was that easy and not involve affect/effect others

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  30. Mumma

    I really fear for the future of Australia if this relic from the 1950s becomes PM. You may not like everything that Labor has done, but for the love of god, consider the alternative that you’ll be voting for!

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  31. Lindsay

    If it is a matter for the TGA why did he interfere on the basis of his religious beliefs when he was Minister? He do it before and he needs to explain why he wouldn’t (mis)behave that way again

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  32. Kylie

    I wonder what questions Abbott still has to answer to be honest. His stance on abortion is well known, from this (as I understand) he felt that RU486 would make terminating an unwanted pregnancy too easy and thus increase the abortion rate in Australia. Personally, I don’t think that abortion should be a political issue; but for many it is. Personally, I don’t have a problem with politicians having strong moral/ethical/religious beliefs about an issue and as for the back-door trade with Brian Harradine – isn’t that called politics (not to mention it was 10 years before the RU486/Abbott issue)? Hasn’t the current labor party done many a back-door deal with the mining lobby group effectively writing the carbon tax policy etc etc. Again, this is just politics. If the health minister feels so strongly about RU486, why hasnt she used her position to make it more readily available? Why is it Abbotts fault? If she feels that Abbott/Liberal party are too involved in women’s lives (much like the Republicans in the US), why doesn’t she not only do something about it, but also keep politics out of womens’ lives herself. This is just a bit more posturing on personal beliefs from a leading politician and whilst I think it’s completly fine for Mia to wonder where he stands, I quite frankly believe that the health minister should have better things to do. Maybe getting RU486 through could be one of them…

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  33. Kat

    Up to April 2012, The American Food and Drug Administration reports 2,207 adverse events related to the use of RU 486, including 14 deaths, 612 hospitalizations, 58 ectopic pregnancies, 339 blood transfusions, and 256 cases of infections in the United States alone.

    Exelgyn, the European manufacturer of RU 486, has stated that 29 women have died worldwide after using RU 486/mifepristone.

    The first Australian maternal death occurred in 2010 with the drug being administered by Marie Stopes International.

    Please protect yourself and be fully informed as no government will do that for you.

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    • Amandarose

      This is why I think limiting use to sexual health clinics and abortion centres is for the best. I don’t think the local G.P should be handing it out and I do think an ultrasound is needed to establish the age and safety of the procedure. It is already used here in a safe way. I don’t get the issue?

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    • Kris2040

      How is an ectopic pregnancy an adverse side effect of RU486?

      And how many people in total took it to end up with these numbers?

      Also, is there a double up of numbers, eg are the transfusions included in the hospitalisations?

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    • Kelly

      I think you should provide statistics for both instead of stating one side. The statistics you state should also include how many take this drug.

      In regards to your stats on USA: over 1.3 mill woman end a pregnancy per year of which a quarter use Mifepristone.

      Worldwide millions of woman have used the drug with out complication.

      Reports of death after medical abortion are very rare – less than 1 in 100,000 cases – a rate comparable to that for early surgical abortion and for miscarriage.

      All information provide by the National Abortion Federation

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    • SammieP

      RU486 comes with risks just like any medicine, that is why it can only be prescribed by a medical practitioner and is not available over the counter. Fear mongering and artificially inflating statistics do not ‘inform and protect’ women, it merely serves your own agenda. If you really wanted women to be informed about the medicine you would be pointing them to the September Medical Journel of Australia article which looked at the outcomes and experience of more than 3,000 women who have taken RU486 and found that complication rates are well within the expected range for any medicine. It’s not an evil drug being forced onto unsuspecting women – it’s a safe option for a woman who has already decided to end a pregnancy.

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  34. Grace

    Although I am no fan of Abbott and disagree with his refusal to allow RU486 through, I don’t disagree with his concerns about the high rate of abortions in Australia. I read the article from which the quote regarding abortion being the easy way out, which he said in 2004. Then there were 100,000 abortions a year. The article stated that he didn’t think women had made these decisions easily, but it was easier than the other option of an unwanted child. Which is true. i also agree that the rate of terminations is incredibly high (although this figure from memory of another article does include terminations from miscarriage). I am part of this statistic, in that i have had 2 terminations – the first was whilst I was having chemo and was a horrifically difficult decision to make, but easier than the option of stopping my treatment and then raising a child whilst I was so unwell. I lived in the UK then and even though RU486 was available, i was advised against taking it as there could be a number of complications including an incomplete abortion and then i would have to come back in for a D &C anyway. The second was when a much-longer for baby had died and not self-aborted and again a D&C was the only option medically deemed appropriate. although many may consider my circumstances different from other abortion recipients, the truth is I have had 2 and I find that figure incredibly high.

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  35. szcz4069

    the issue of abortion should remain a personal decision. the fact that people have opinions about this issue is fine. however, the forcing of that opinion on others is wrong. the government has no business being anywhere near this issue. upholding our personal freedoms (whats left of them) is what they should be concentrating on….

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  36. anon

    Aborting a first trimester fetus is not morally identical to deliberately killing a living human being, but it’s not just removing a wart or a cyst either.

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    • Cold

      Who said it was?

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  37. chillax

    FFS, still cant believe that in 2012 a womans fertility and her choices are still being determined by people whose business it is none of.

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    • anon

      Chillax,

      Abortion needs to be regulated for the safety of women. By the constitution it means that it is the business of the men and women in Parliament and the Government.

      I believe that abortion needs to be regulated for the health and safety of women, not because I’m pro or anti abortion.

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      • lauren0108

        If you’re concerned for the safety of women, then ensuring abortion remains accessible to those who require it should be the number one concern… we all know what used to happen when abortion was performed by dodgy practioners because women had no other choice.

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        • Emma

          I completely agree with your statement!

          Would it not be safer for women to have access to safe, well-trained doctors as opposed to illegal abortions as was the only option not to long ago.

          Are we really going to have to take a step back into the dark ages because our country is such a nanny state?

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      • Guest

        So when you say ‘regulated’ you mean regulations that state things like:

        - only properly qualified and registered doctors can perform abortions

        - can only be performed in a hospital or other accredited facility

        - can only be performed up to a certain gestational point

        - a woman can not be coerced into having an abortion

        - no one other than the woman in question has any legal right to influence the decision to have an abortion

        right? Or do you have some other specific ‘regulations’ in mind?

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  38. anon

    Politicians are put into parliament to vote according to their beliefs. Just because a person votes in a particular way doesn’t make them a bad person, it just means that they have different views to you.

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    • lucinda

      Agree with the second sentence, not the first. They are elected to vote to represent the people who elected them. Their beliefs should not necessarily come in to it at all.

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    • lauren0108

      Yes – and it’s those views that inform whether we want to vote for them or not.

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  39. OnceUponAnon

    Perhaps he should have said “abortion is the *easier* way out”. Because it is – that’s why women choose to have one (in cases where it is not actually for health reasons, etc) – so that they can escape the burden of raising a child that they do not want enough to remain pregnant.

    Abortion is certainly not an easy thing. I watched my sister struggle through the aftermath of her decision, and I believe RU486 would have been less traumatic for her to have than the surgical procedure.

    But it was the right decision for her, and an abortion was the ‘easier’ path for her to take than being a single teenage parent of an unwanted child.

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    • lauren0108

      Perhaps he should keep his opinions on abortion to himself altogether. That would be my preference!

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    • Anonymous

      I don’t think it is fair to call abortion an ‘easier’ option. I think just stick to saying that in some cases (and if a woman does not want the child then it classifies as ‘some cases’) abortion is the *right* option.
      Turning this around, due to medical issues a woman may be strongly advised to terminate the pregnancy. In that particular case I would think that abortion is by far the ‘harder’ option for a woman who desperately wants the child.

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      • OnceUponAnon

        Agree with your final paragraph, Anonymous. I said as much (albeit briefly) in my original comment.

        I don’t see why it is unfair to point out that, when faced with two very difficult options, abortion is considered by many women who choose it, the ‘easier’ option. And that it was a relief for them to be have that option.

        This does not make it an inherently ‘easy’ decision or some kind of ‘cop out’ as Abbott appears to have alluded to.

        Reducing the dialogue of the pro choice movement to morally loaded descriptions such as abortion being only the ‘right choice’ and not also the ‘easier’ choice is to prescribe an ‘acceptable’ narrative for women who have had an abortion.

        Some women feel no guilt about an abortion, they know it was the ‘right’ choice for them. They also know it was the ‘easier’ choice for them and it shouldn’t be an offensive or shameful thing to acknowledge that.

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  40. lauren0108

    Firstly, to respond to the emails below that claim Mamamia just ‘Abbott bashes’ – Tony Abbott has had pieces published on Mamamia – as has his wife (an extraordinary fluff/PR piece)- and on several other occasions Mamamia have indicated that he has been invited to put his view on various issues but has declined. The reason he declines is because his views on women’s issues would be abhorent to many of the site’s readers, so he simply keeps quiet.

    When we had the debate on RU486 during his time as Health Minister, the purpose of it was to determine whether the pill was safe for women and therefore a viable alternative to surgical abortion. It was never meant to be a debate on abortion itself, yet that’s what Abbott turned it into by inviting groups such as Right to Life to participate. Groups that stand outside abortion clinics and harrass women who are already going through something extraordinarily difficult.

    I have no issue with people like Mia Freedman and Tanya Plibersek demanding he clarify his view. I too would like to hear him say he was wrong. Because he was – and its perhaps this issue more than any other that will make me unable to vote for him – ever.

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  41. The wounded bull

    Oh dear. Here’s a tip ALP, you are the government, how about you spend more time on governing than on abbott kicking and playing gender politics.

    Every drug goes through a journey to approval in any country. This drug was available in parts of europe in the late 80s, when the ALP was in government. Why didnt your lot rush it through then? Did you hate women?

    I have Crohns Disease and there are new drugs I would love us all to have access to, but the gov is taking its time for a number of reasons. Do you hate people with my condition Tanya?

    So the Abbott = sexist ALP strategy rolls on. Do you really think the general public are this stupid labor. Enough already, get on with governing and making Australia a better place for the future.

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    • An Idle Dad

      I’m sure your expectation is that new drugs, like the one you would like for Crohns Disease go through a process to make sure it is safe and the most cost effective brand, especially if you want the PBS to cover all or some of the costs.

      What I think you don’t want, is someone’s religious objections overriding that decision and denying you that drug at the last moment.

      That’s why Abbott has ‘questions to answer’ (surely your favourite phrase) about his handling of this drug. I think it is reasonably to ask if the next government (and let’s be honest here, they’ll be the next government) will follow due processes, or withhold some drugs like reproductive control because they make old white guys (or their Gods) uncomfortable.

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      • The wounded bull

        While I would hate to think of public policy being dictated by religion, it is just as bad to automatically assume that all decisions you disagree with made by parlimentary members of faith have been driven purely because of their faith. It is a convenient but lazy argument.

        I again draw attention to prior health ministers from both parties that did not push the cause of this drug. What of them?

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        • An Idle Dad

          Ah, I see the problem here.

          It was approved under Labor. Apologies I should have answered that question the first time.

          Howard, Abbott and Harradine banned the abortion drug in 1996 when they came to power. They did this was to shift the approval of abortion drugs to be the responsibility for the Health Minister, and out of the hands of the TGA.

          Not all drugs. Just the abortion ones. Hmmmmm…

          Answer me this Mr Bull: Why just abortion drugs? For Harradine, it was clearly stated as linked to his beliefs. Howard argued his hands were tied, and considering the balance of power in the Senate, it was true.

          After Harradine’s retirement in 2005, public appeals were made to Abbott to lift the ban. Abbott refused, publicly misrepresented the advice given to him (at least, that’s what the AMA said). It was so patently obvious it was NOT about medical advice, so a private member’s bill (sponsored by four female senators, a Labor, Liberal, Democrat and National, with strong support from the Greens) was introduced to remove the power from Abbott and give it back to the TGA.

          It passed. Liberals and Nationals crossed the floor against Abbott. Following it’s passing, the TGA immediately approved it.

          Why was Abbott against it in 2005? It was approved pre-1996, the advice was to re-approve in 2005, Abbott declined. Why?

          I think it’s a lazy argument to suggest it isn’t his religion. Because all the other excuses don’t stack up.

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          • The wounded bull

            You conveniently make it sound as if the drug was approved and used in Australia freely under labor prior to 1996, which is rubbish.

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            • Kris2040

              You conveniently didn’t address any of what ID said!

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            • An Idle Dad

              It was undergoing trials in 1994 and in use in Western Australia, NSW and Victoria and was approved by Labor Ministers Graham Richardson and Carmen Lawrence.

              The Ministers had to approve the trials because the drug was not yet approved by the TGA. The Ministers did not control IF the drug would receive approval until Howard and Harradine passed the law taking that decision away from TGA and putting it in the Health Minster’s hands.

              Again, Howard gets a pass, he was tied by politics, but Abbott does not. What’s your theory?

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            • An Idle Dad

              Sorry Kris, no deal from TWB. He always gets like this. Usually he comes back with a “I was too busy to respond” and another misdirection.

              I was soooo hoping for a real answer, it’s Christmas too! :(

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            • Anonymous

              ID, with respect, please get over yourself and remember the dinner party rules here. I never run away from a debate, however I also run a business and dont sit on here all day waiting to reply the minute you post something.

              For the record, I have often backed you into a corner and proved you wrong dear sir, and am happy to admit being wrong myself if proven so. Dont take some bogus high ground with me please.

              I do not dispute the history (show me where I did), all I was pointing out was that a) the process of approval for many drugs involves much consideration on many levels (and the case for introduction of this drug was not universally supported or opposed on party lines, many LNP members supported it), and b) you can not assume that all decisions by members of parliament that are of faith are therefore influenced by that faith. Finally, I find your tone toward me offensive ID.

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            • The Wounded Bull

              for the record ID, now I have had a chance to check my facts, RU486 was never approved under labor prior to 1996. It was only ever available in Australia through the World Health Organisation’s international trials of the drug and was never officially approved. See, you are not always correct.

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            • Alice

              Don’t be a sook WB, ID made excellent points and you didn’t respond – as you often don’t, when proven wrong (which is often). He wasn’t being rude, he was making a fair point.

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            • coolio

              He was working! Not everyone can spend all day on here responding to comments. Give him a break.

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            • An Idle Dad

              Firstly, I love that you did exactly what I said. Apologies that my gentle ribbing upset you.

              Secondly, I admit when I’ve gotten it wrong. I do this as a matter of honest debate. You never have done this. You tend to… evaporate…

              But never mind! You’re back!

              Lastly, Carmen Lawrence halted (when a Canberra Times investigation suggested there was some illegalities with the trial), then after a short investigation re-approved the trials. I know you’ve slipped the word ‘Officially’ into your statement, which I’ll take to mean as ‘TGA approved’ which I agree it had not yet become, but to say that Labor was not aware of the WHO (or subsequent other) trials or did not specifically approve their go-ahead is completely incorrect.

              Humbly, I ask if would you care to agree with this and that your previous statement is not accurate.

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    • X

      I also have Crohn’s Disease, and I am all for any method that is not intrusive. If I’m going through a flare, the last thing I want is a) a pergnancy, and b) another intrusive procedure. This isn’t about the safety aspect, it’s already been proven. This is about limiting women’s choices. This would be the same as a proven safe method of treating Crohn’s being denied for use because the government thinks Crohn’s is a moral threat, and we don’t have the right to choose. I have more rights as a patient with Crohn’s than I do as a woman. Let us choose!

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  42. Anon

    Labor really is clutching at straws here.

    I’m a regular reader of this website. For the most part it’s thought provoking, and as a woman, it’s refreshing to read articles that actually relate to things that impact on my life, and things that don’t. It does shape my view on things too.

    But in saying that, I’m growing weary of the blatant Liberal bashing that goes on here. I’m not particularly interested in politics – and in the past, I’ve voted Green, Independent, Labor and Liberal.

    Fact is, Gillard and her team are in trouble. Big trouble. For the record, I’m ashamed that we have such an embarrassing group of people running our country. I don’t like Gillard, and I don’t like what she represents. I’m entitled to that view.

    Perhaps Mamamia might like to extend the opportunity to Tony Abbott to give his side of the story. A bit of balanced journalism, perhaps? I’d hate to think that the contributors to this website are simply part of a group that are intent on pushing a one sided agenda. That would be very disappointing, I’m sure, for all of the readers.

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    • Kris2040

      Wasn’t there a piece by Tony Abbott a couple of weeks ago? And one (or two) by a Liberal senator in the last month or two?

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      • B

        People remember what they want to kris! :)

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      • anon

        OK Kris, let’s have a debate on the way the the ALP in South Australia opposed legislation that was to ban publications that involved sex with boys.

        Just because they did it in 1978 doesn’t mean it’s not irrelevent now in the same way that what Mr. Abbott did or didn’t do in 2005 is not irrelevent.

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        • Kris2040

          Huh? I don’t tend to debate stuff that is tangental at best and at the least irrelevant to my comment. Sorry, not biting.

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          • Anon

            C’mon Kris,

            Come out and play…

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    • Anonymous

      A few weeks ago there was an article by Tony Abbott’s wife and it was (understandably) very pro-Tony.

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    • Deb

      Mia has been trying to interview Abbott for years. And he declined the opportunity to reply to this piece. Tells you something …

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    • Milly

      Here, here! The ‘handbag brigade’… Plibersek, Gillard, Roxon and Penny Wong are going to pull out all stops on this abortion issue before the next election, and sadly there are some media outlets which will roll out the red carpet for them to do this.

      As a woman, I am disturbed by this group’s insistence that to be a woman in leadership you have to maintain a pro abortion on demand, stance. Lots and lots of women are uncomfortable with abortion being seen as a simple medical procedure. Ironically, I think it is the pro-choice girls who depict abortion as ‘the easy way out’. It is often this side of the debate who go on about abortion not being a big moral issue; that women shouldn’t feel bad about it; that it is the better way than having an unplanned pregnancy mess up your life. I personally think that this mantra leaves women feeling foolish and isolated when they DO feel a heavy weight and burden about choosing abortion.

      You don’t have to be a pro-life nutcase to believe that abortion should be a last resort. You don’t have to be a pro-life fanatic to believe that women should be more supported in pregnancy.

      Tanya, be careful that your attacks on Abbott don’t more firmly entrench in voters mind, that Labor is actually the playground of the radical feminists who see abortion from only one perspective. ie. pro abortion on demand

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      • Alex

        “The handbag brigade” or as it is otherwise known “the Federal Cabinet”.

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  43. anon

    Your link above to “abortion is the easy way out” has nothing to do with Tony Abbott, and everything to do with Abbott bashing.

    When exactly did he say that abortion was the easy way out? Is there a full taped recording of his entire statement, not just notes from a biased journalist, or an edited recording of an interview?

    I sup[pose this will be censored, or the only responses I get will be “but everyone knows he said that” sort of rubbish.

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    • Kris2040

      I trust Mr Abbott’s own website is reliable enough, Anon?

      http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/LatestNews/ArticleswrittenbyTony/tabid/87/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3653/RATE-OF-ABORTION-HIGHLIGHTS-OUR-MORAL-FAILINGS.aspx

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      • Pinky pie

        Kris2040 provides the knock out punch once again!! Love it! :-)

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        • Anon

          No she didn’t. What she did do was highlight the entire speech so it’s easy to see that the ALP are taking his comments out of context.

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          • Kris2040

            Actually all I did was google the quote and Tony Abbott and found the link to show Anon when exactly he did say that abortion is the easy way out. His own website isn’t biased against him, surely? It was pretty easy to find.
            What isn’t so easy to see, having read the whole thing, is how he’s been taken out of context. Especially interesting to see the leap from “women” to teenagers.

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      • Rachel

        Oh my god, this comment is almost the highlight of my year! Thanks Kris2040!

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      • Catherine

        Let us get Abbott’s quote in context “”What does it say about the state of our relationships and our values that so many women (and their husbands, lovers and families) feel incapable of coping with a pregnancy or a child? To a pregnant 14-year-old struggling to grasp what’s happening, for example, example, a senior student with a whole life mapped out or a mother already failing to cope under difficult circumstances, abortion is the easy way out. It’s hardly surprising that people should choose the most convenient exit from awkward situations. What seems to be considered far less often is avoiding situations where difficult choices might arise. Our society has rightly terrified primary school children about the horrors of smoking, but seems to take it for granted that adolescents will have sex despite the grim social consequences of teenage single parenthood. If half the effort were put into discouraging teenage promiscuity as goes into preventing teenage speeding, there might be fewer abortions, fewer traumatised young women and fewer dysfunctional families. Why isn’t the fact that 100,000 women choose to end their pregnancies regarded as a national tragedy approaching the scale, say, of Aboriginal life expectancy being 20 years less than that of the general community? No one wants to recreate the backyard abortion clinic (or to stigmatise the millions of Australians who have had abortions or encouraged others to do so). But is it really so hard to create a culture where people understand that actions have consequences and take their responsibilities seriously?”"

        frankly, I don’t have a problem with what he said. Women have abortions because they feel that it is easier to make that decision ( however difficult it may be for some women) than to raise a child who may be disabled, or to raise a child as a single mother, or to raise a child in poor financial circumstances, or to postpone study , or have their career’s affected etc etc etc

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  44. anon

    Here we go again, Mamamia Abbott bashing.

    The simple facts are that RU486 is still not available after 5 years of Labor.

    What has the health minister been doing? If she was worth her salt she would be writing here about how she came to the decision to allow RU486.

    What Abbott did, or didn’t do in 2005 is completely irrelevent.

    Why is RU486 still not available? Why has the current minister not made it generally available.

    Why isn’t Mamamia focussed on these questions rather than what wasn’t done the best part of a decade ago?

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    • B

      I have been a recipient of RU486 to end a ‘missed miscarrage’. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from. My brother-in-law is an obstetrician and would MUCH prefer women to take RU486 instead of having surgery.
      As someone who has also had a d&c for another miscarriage, I know which I’d prefer whilst in the middle of trying to have a baby.
      This may not be a valid question for you, but as someone who truly deeply believes in a secular government these questions do matter, very much, for me.

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    • Sazzajane

      Exactly! If she thinks we should have greater access to RU486, why isn’t she doing that now instead of whinging about what Tony Abbott did years ago? Tanya Plibersek is the one who is currently in a position to make the changes.

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    • Kris2040

      “Since then, RU486 has been available in Australia through a small number of doctors who have had to specially import the drug. In August, the Therapeutic Goods Administration approved an application by non-profit organisation MS Health, to import the drug, making it much more accessible.”

      I assume the Health Minister can’t tell the TGA what to do or how distribution of drugs is done? Anyone?

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    • jamilarizvi

      Hi there Anon,

      I’m not sure the ‘Tony Abbott’ bashing criticism is fair. We’ve published pieces from Tony on the site, as well as pieces from his wife Margie and his Shadow Cabinet.

      On this particular issue, we have been inviting Tony onto Mamamia to discuss his views with our readers for years. We have also requested the opportunity for Mia to interview Tony about RU486 as well and offered him the option of a reply.

      This is a strong piece of opinion from the Health Minister, but she raises some valid points about the views of a man who may go on to become Prime Minister of our country.

      Jamila

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      • anon

        Jamila,

        Thankyou for your reply.

        With all due respect, you are engaging in Abbott bashing.

        Ms Plibersek has had ample opportunity to do exactly what she is criticizing Tony Abbot for not doing. She could have introduced the legislation and since ALP MP’s aren’t allowed to think for themselves it would have passed with the support of the greens and independents.

        Why haven’t you criticized Ms Plibersek for not doing this? Only a minority of Doctors having access to RU486 is a joke. I just asked the women at work (about 6 of them, 19 to 50ish) if they knew that RU486 was available on a limited capacity and none of them knew. The only reason that it’s not known generally is because Ms Plibersek hasn’t done her job. Yet you are silent on that.

        Further, if Ms Plibersek had been doing her job, RU486 would be properly available through the PBS, and then it wouldn’t matter what Tony Abbott thought about it, as it would be just about impossible to reverse the decision.

        PS I may be a Liberal PArty mmember, but I’m certainly not a pro life nut job. My personal opinion is that abortion should be sfae, available and rare. From my limited understanding of RU486 it’s the safest option.

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        • Amandarose

          I don’t agree with it being given on the PBS. To many ways to bugger it up. It is not used alone but with another product and I don’t think a regular pharmacy is the place to have that conversation and I don’t think your regular g.p should be in a position to prescribe it. With any abortion people need support from trained professionals and guidance and care. It is available through NSW hospitals at least in my area. prescribed by Dr’s specialised in this area.

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    • Amandarose

      It is available. In the small regional hospital I sometimes work at it is used and often prescribed by the local sexual health clinic. So Yes it is available.

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  45. Amandarose

    I don’t care about his personal views on abortion. He is entitled to feel how he feels. I do care if he tries to inflict this on the entire nation or plans to in the future. I don’t care what he did 6 years ago but I do care what he does now.
    I am assuming mifepristone is reasonably well available as I have often dispensed it and explained how it works in the small hospital in a regional town I work in sometimes. I would not personally chose to take it as I am not comfortable with abortion for me . But I do not see supporting other people’s choice kindly and with empathy a problem. It is also used extensively in the UK. I handed out more kits there then anywhere else ever.

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  46. Me

    Ireland to change it’s abortion rules; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/abortion-ireland-laws-clarify-termination_n_2323593.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

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  47. Anon

    Abortion is ‘the easy way out’?? How absurd Tony!
    I personally, would never have one for contraceptive reasons. Luckily I never been in the horrible position of terminating for medical purpose.
    But, just because I wouldn’t have one, does not mean I think it should be illegal. Every woman has the right to her own body, and it is up to her.
    Yes, we all have our views. Can’t we all just be happy with “If you don’t want one, don’t get one”. It is that simple. Each to their own.

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