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Mel and Kochie Daily Buzz: Christian lobby slams Sunrise for pro gay stance

Sunrise hosts Mel and Kochie

AUSTRALIAN CHRISTIAN LOBBY NOT HAPPY WITH SUNRISE, MARIE CLAIRE

The country’s most powerful ‘family values’ group, the Australian Christian Lobby (ACL) has attacked Channel 7′s Sunrise and magazine Marie Claire for launching a campaign this week in support of marriage equality. The media have partnered with activist organisation GetUp.

Sunrise executive producer Michael Pell said of the initiative:

“For a long time now they have both been behind the whole gay marriage issue. They understand everyone does not support it, but a show like Sunrise, we care. We are trying to make a difference, affect change rather than just comment on it. It’s not an issue about sexuality, it’s a human rights issue.”

The ACL suggested its members might like to: “Register your disgust that the press, supposedly the neutral umpire and facilitator of public debate, should allow itself to be captured by the propaganda machine of the gay lobby.”

If you feel so inclined, you can register your support for Sunrise and its partners here.

Here’s what else is on our radar today:

1. Gwyneth Paltrow used the ‘N-word’. But it’s not quite so cut and dried. The actress and mother was watching (live) Jay-Z and Kanye perform in Paris. The name of their hit song? Ni**as in Paris. Gwyn tweeted: “Ni**as in paris for real.” She even used the asterisks. She clearly meant it as a reference but fans turned on her all the same, criticising Paltrow.

Her response was short and sweet: “Hold up. It’s the title of the song!”

2. Meet David Boone. He was accepted into 22 of the 23 schools he applied for, including Harvard, Princeton and Yale. He landed a scholarship. He also spent much of his youth homeless, sleeping at friend’s houses when he could or in the park when he had nowhere else. He did his homework at bus stations. Now he’s studying computer science and engineering at Harvard. Nice.

3. Catch me if you can? A man spent more than a month pretending to be a police officer at the Perth Watch house. He turned up at regular shifts in full police uniform. The man, 18, has now been charged.

4. A Latvian airline is the ‘world’s first’ to introduce seating for passengers … according to their mood. The free service on Air Baltic also takes into account any hobbies and interests in the three ‘mood’ seating categories (wanting to work, wanting to network and wanting to be left the heck alone).

Lindsay Lohan Liz Taylor Daily Buzz: Christian lobby slams Sunrise for pro gay stance

Yup, that's Lindsay Lohan as Liz

5. The first images of Lindsay Lohan as Liz Taylor have been released and, well, the resemblance is uncanny. Lohan will play Taylor in the TV biopic Liz and Dick. What do you think?

6. The CEO of the Australian Rugby League (ARL) Commission David Gallop, frequently referred to as a gentleman of the sport, has resigned effective immediately. He has overseen the game, and all its struggles, for a decade. Management said it was because they wanted someone ‘fresh’ to guide the game.

7. The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee celebrations turned up a notch last night / today as a concert jam-packed with stars took place outside Buckingham Palace in the Mall. 500,000 turned out to sing along and Prince Charles gave a moving speech in which he thanked the Queen … or, in his words, ‘Mummy’.

- Here are 12 facts about the Queen you might not know.

You can watch his speech below, but first, our ridiculously awesome gallery of the Queen herself because, why not?

Queen Elizabeth II

Side note: The RBA has cut the cash rate by 25 basis points to 3.50%.

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220 Comments so far

  1. ian

    unafect change as equality is a improvement for a better futere

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  2. ian

    unafect change so we can progress for a better future equality is for a better future

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  3. Alex Grancha

    It’s inaccurate for the Sunrise Producer ‘Michael Pell’s to defend his program’s unethical move and claim that same sex marriage is a human rights issue when the European Court of Human Rights has only recently confirmed it is not, saying in its judgement: “The European Convention on Human Rights does not require member states’ governments to grant same-sex couples access to marriage.

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    • ian

      the humen rights goverment can grant rights for gay marriage its that eassy

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  4. kiwichick

    go sunrise!!!

    how would you feel if your partner had proposed by saying “Will you Civil Union me?”

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  5. Phary

    There seems to be a bit of a furore going on below on the subject of gay marriage which I’m not going to join in at the moment, but I would just like to make one point….
    So many people have said that if someone is a Christian and they believe that marriage is a heterosexual union ordained by God, then that’s fine for them but they have no right to impose their beliefs on others or to expect parliament to legislate accordingly. Fine. But that does leave me wondering…
    On the other side of the fence is an athiest who believes marriage is merely a legal transaction between any two people. Why on earth then should this person be able to impose their beliefs on others and expect parliament to legislate acordingly????
    Surely ALL people in our country of ALL ethnic backgrounds, faiths or lack thereof should be able to let their views be known and allow our law-makers to make decisions accordingly. Get Up has mobilised their supporters to back Sunrise. ACL has mobilised theirs to speak out against it. That’s part of living in a functioning democracy and each group has an equal right to be heard in the debate. Just because you can’t see the other side’s perspective doesn’t mean they have no right to voice it and it certainly doesn’t mean that you get the right to villify and ridicule.

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    • A-M

      I agree wholeheartedly. In my debate I have been determined to put forward my view. I have not resorted to name calling or anger in order to express my concern. And yet that is what I have been met with in return. All i can say is that I sense the emotion and vulnerability when those supporting gay marriage do not like what I have to say. Why is that? Is it because no one can really argue with the truth? Yes I believe we should all be part of the dialogue and I will not be silenced by those who wish to put me down or disagree with me, as i do not wish to silence them. How else will real truth be revealed? And is that not that the responsibility of our media- to allow both sides to be told, and not to take sides? I ask Mel and Koshie: Is this your personal view or that told you must take by your producers? and, can you confidently say that this view is that of every single person on your team? I look forward to your response on national tv tomorrow morning.

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      • A-M

        I must say I enjoyed the debate this morning other than it was a bit short! I think both sides were represented articulately and Kochie did his best to give equal exposure. It is such an emotive issue. I was left hanging on a couple of questions though. Kerryn was asked “why this hangup on the term “marriage” why is not “civil union” enough…I don’t know if it was answered or if I missed it. And, I didn’t get to see the whole show, but did Mel call in sick today I don’t recall seeing her?

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        • L

          Because gay and lesbian couples deserve THE SAME rights as the rest of us. If we call it something different, such as a Civil Union, it is basically saying “YOU ARE DIFFERENT”, which is not good enough.

          They deserve the same rights as the rest of us and they should not accept anything less.

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          • ian

            i think both sides got the truth

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      • ian

        the truth of the fact is gay marriage will make a better future for every one plus clean up the past so it makes a better future for us all i ask u all this would life be a better place if we all stopped fighting an became more friendly we not animals out in the paddock u know were humen beens we people we more smarter then the animals out in the padock so we can learn to get along with each other better

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    • anon this time

      I am a bit appalled at the nastiness in some peoples comments. I am not going to add to any aggressive debate, but i think it has to be said that not all christians agree with this lobby group. the God i believe in accepts all people and loves us all the same. A true christian would know that God wants us to love each other as he loves us.the amount of hate on this page is not very christian…

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    • Alex Grancha

      I agree but the Gay Lobby is shrewd as a wily fox and have been working ver effectively behind and in front of the scenes to push the gay marriage issue to the forefront when polls show that Australians are more concerned about other pressing national issues.They use the word tolerance when it benefits their agenda but they in fact have zero tolerance of anyone who disagrees with them.

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  6. Daisy

    That David Boone story is fantastic and inspiring. Sad that he was in that position for so long but probably just because people didn’t know. I hope….
    I know what an achievement it is to get into those schools and how many of us would have what it takes to persevere like that? Thank you Mamamia for this. I wish this had even more attention.

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  7. Anonymous

    Sometimes I am not very proud to be a Christian. It was only a couple of weeks ago on a radio interview that a Christian group tried to justify their opposition of gay marriage by defining marriage as a Christian ceremony. Apparently all marriages involve a bible. Clearly they were dropped on their heads one too many times as children. So I’m guessing they don’t believe Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, etc and even non-religious marriages are legitimate? I see no point in Sunrise even defending themselves against such ludicrous views, I cannot wait for gay marriage to be legalised, because at the end of the day no one is asking two gay people to be married in a Christian ceremony because marriage doesn’t even have to be religious. It’s not as thought we’re marrying them, they are marrying each other. Opposition with no legitimate justification should be ignored.

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    • ian

      legitimate marriage is all very important its part of the family tree so our family relatives cousant excetra can look at the family tree to say ge some of our ralatives are gay an got married legally this adds to the family history to yes adds to the family tree

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  8. Jenna

    I literally couldn’t think of anyone WORSE to play Liz Taylor. Liz lived and died as a beautiful, classy, hard working, glamourous, successful actor….so they get a drug addicted train wreck with surgery-addled features, who continually makes straight to dvd movies and is in court more often than the studio to play her? Whaaaaat? How was she even a consideration, let alone the best choice? Even in terms of looks, she’s all wrong. I’m baffled.

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  9. May!

    Shocked at the people who are unimpressed by “the media taking sides”. This isn’t the news people, it’s Sunrise! Power to them!

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  10. neola

    Kudos to Sunrise – I’m pleasantly surprised by their stance.

    As for Gwyneth, I can’t help feel like she’s always trying too hard to show everyone how cool she is, just because she’s friends with Jay Z and Beyonce. It kinda reminds me of this:

    http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/

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  11. Lauren

    I support gay marriage.

    I do not support the media taking sides on ANY issue.

    What if it was a campaign about making abortion illegal Australia-wide, or closing our borders for all asylums seekers and refugess?

    The point is, this sets a very significant precedent. If the Today show wanted to come out tomorrow supporting a campaign AGAINST gay marriage… do you think people would regard that as ok?

    And what is the difference between that hypothetical situation, and the Sunrise situation?

    The media should not call the shots. There’s too much ignorance to be preyed on.

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    • Jess Bath

      Do you honestly believe the media aren’t taking a side in any story ever spoken or written about?

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      • Lauren

        If course they do. And I don’t think that’s ok.

        That’s my point. It’s not ok.

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    • Alex Grancha

      Awesome. I agree with you as you get the gist of the argument here.

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  12. savannahofaus

    I am not a Sunrise fan, but I can’t help but applaud them on their support of gay marriage. I sent them an email of support. It is a human rights issue about being able to marry the person you love. One of my best friends is gay and while he personally doesn’t want to get married, he feels that he should have the CHOICE to, just like every straight person out there.

    And don’t even get me started on the whole “but it’s about the CHILDREN, won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children” argument.

    And just ps. being straight, in no way, gives you superiority in the morality stakes.

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    • picardie.girl

      Hehe. Love the pic. I also like this one (despite the error):

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      • The Wounded Bull

        I dont know, I just cant help getting the feeling that you are putting words in that dog’s mouth

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      • ian

        that not about u surporting gay marriage does not surport gay marriege so get unafected as gay marriage is no sickness so it can not a fect u but it will improve ur health in a lot of areas to except gay marriage

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    • Boo

      Love love love the pic!!!

      This is the point I always make when discussing the topic.
      It doesn’t have to be religious – just recognised – and what the hell does it matter to anyone?!?!?!?! Everyone should be given the choice to marry the one you love. A straight couple wouldn’t like others having an opinion on whether or not they should be able to be married!!!

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  13. A-M

    Can’t help but recognise the irony. Being openly gay flaunts the conventions and traditions of society. And yet marriage, that centuries old tradition between a man and woman, is what is being sought by the gay lobby.

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    • MJ

      I’m pretty sure homosexuality was going on before marriage was invented.
      I am getting an eye twitch just reading your comment.

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      • A-M

        only “pretty sure”? sorry, hope your eye twitich is better soon

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        • Quokka

          We decended from a common ancestor of teh Chimpanzee and they have homosexual practices so I am very sure.

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          • A-M

            Now you’re comparing gays to chimps. That’s not right.

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            • cabbagefairy

              MJ and Quokka are comparing apes to humans, you know as we descended from them – not that there is much point in me pointing that out as you don’t believe in evolution.

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            • redballoon

              Quokka was comparing Humans with chimps, not Gays with chimps.
              Do you see the difference?
              Are you trouble making or do you have some genuine issues with comprehension?

              Either way something is not right. It’s you.

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            • A-M

              ok. so you are comparing humans to chimps. By your suggestion, that is where we are on the evolutionary scale? btw Cabbagefairy I do believe in evolution…how did you come to the conclusion that I didn’t….ohhh that must be “generalisation” !!!! How easy it is to get you off track from the real issue. And yes, I am trouble making! How dare I do that! How dare I have an opinion that is different to yours! More name calling.

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            • redballoon

              You can’t see me, but I’m playing you the worlds smallest violin.

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    • Balance?

      I don’t know about that A-M.
      Not everyone who’s gay ‘openly flaunts’ conventions and traditions.
      Many simply want to get on with raising their families and/or being able to legally make a commitment to the person they want to spend the rest of their lives with.
      I don’t agree that churches should have to marry gay people if it’s against their religious stance.
      I do think that all people should have the right to ‘marry’ or create a legal union with whom they choose – and therefore be afforded all the inherent rights and the legal and social acknowledgement that a formal union brings.
      Gay people are living together in committed relationships everywhere, and while I’m not gay and have no specific investment in the final outcome of this debate, I am a human being and I just don’t see why gay couples are not allowed to formalise their commitment if they choose.

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      • A-M

        Thank you for your response. I like that you have distinguished that there is actually a difference between “marry” and “create a legal union”. In the church, you see, marriage is considered to be something more than just a legal union. It is where God, family and friends bear witness to the love and committment between a man and a woman. If there is no God involved how can that be a marriage in the true sense of the word?

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        • vanessayoung

          I am sick of reading that marriage is a church matter. Marriage is a legal contract:
          the ceremony involving this legal contract is sometimes performed in a church (or a garden, or a home, or a golf club, hotel,),by a minister (priest, rabbi, civil celebrant, man dressed as Elvis).
          After you are married you are recognised by society as a couple, you have certain rights and obligations as that couple.
          It seems to me that supporters of marriage equality want to commit to each other in a meaningful way and to have the same rights and obligations as any heterosexual married couple.
          I used to get angry at people like you, A-M, but now I am just concerned. What is that you are so afraid will happen if gay people are allowed to legalise their unions?

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          • Anonymous

            I guess that where we differ is in our definition. You say Marriage is a legal contract. I believe it is MORE than a legal contract. To answer your question what I am afraid of is society getting to a stage where they think that they no longer need God’s love. I cannot separate God from marriage and the part that God brings to it…my husband and I could not do it without God and therefore it is because of people like me that it will remain a church matter.

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            • Anonymous

              There is no god. Get over it.

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            • A-M

              I guess that where we differ is in our definition. You say Marriage is a legal contract. I believe it is MORE than a legal contract. To answer your question what I am afraid of is society getting to a stage where they think that they no longer need God’s love. I cannot separate God from marriage and the part that God brings to it…my husband and I could not do it without God and therefore it is because of people like me that it will remain a church matter.

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            • Chi

              It’s perfectly fine for you to take that view. However, you cannot expect to place a specific religious view on others who don’t share your specific religion. In the case of discussing marriage as a transaction – i.e bride swapped for property – it most certainly started as a legal contract. As it is not a request for religious institutions to change their specific view of marriage, it becomes a moot point when approaching civil law. Churches do not dictate civil law.

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            • Kris2040

              It remains a church matter for believers, A-M. But if you’re not an adherent to any religion (like me), if you choose to marry someone of the opposite sex, you can. But if they happen to have the same bits, you can’t. What has the right that some of us have legally got to do with your beliefs and your church? I don’t expect to be able to get hitched in a church of which I’m not a believer, but as it’s a legal construct, I certainly expect to be able to make it legal with a bloke and I expect my friends in same sex relationships to also have that right.

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            • sharons

              If that’s what you believe, that is fine, but why should YOUR beliefs dictate the lives of others?

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            • Anonymous

              Communion and baptism are religious practices.

              Marriage stopped being one once it became defined by the government. It is a legally recognised relationship that has its original foundations in religion. Law changes with society. Marriage is defined by legislation. Legislation changes and moves with society.

              There is a clear reason why baptism and communion are not legislated activities and marriage is.

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            • A-M

              Marriage never stopped being a religious practice. Show me where it says that in law?

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        • rudyroo

          Marriage was around way before religion took up the idea.
          So please stop with the arguement that your religion lays claim to it.

          If your religion doesn’t want gays to marry, don’t have gays marry in your religion. Why the hell does it matter if they marry in other way?..you know…like legally. sheesh.

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        • Chi

          Dear A-M,

          You have absolutely every right to have your view shared by those you choose to congregate with – within your church. I fully support you in that. However, that church cannot dictate laws. If it was to dictate law, it would be in conflict on so many points with other religions. This is why we have civil law which is a separate entity.

          It is ok if you feel that God not being involved in a marriage doesn’t make it a true one. However that view is likely to be unpopular with people who don’t believe in God, yet still wish to commit to another person and enjoy the protections that commitment gives them under law. However, simply because they do not share your view does not make them any less married in the eyes of the law.

          Likewise, no individual is asking you or your congregation to participate or condone another’s union. They are simply ask you not to prevent the same protections under law that you are given.

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          • A-M

            I agree that the church cannot dictate laws…in the same way that those not a part of the church cannot dictate laws. I do believe though that all people should be able to express their viewpoint even when it is unpopular. And the ACL has a right and a responsibility to do that.

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            • Chi

              Yes, they absolutely have that right.

              However, I can’t help but be vaguely pleased that they bungle it so often, as I disagree with them :)

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        • LaurenHC

          You’re entitled to have imaginary friends, A-M. But guess what, you aren’t entitled to impose your imaginary friend’s ideals (which conveniently fit in with yours!) on the rest of us.

          My boyfriend and I are both atheists, indeed we met through our univeristy atheist society, and we’re very much in love- how dare you imply that relationships are invalid without your god? What nonsense. My last boyfriend was Christian and that didn’t stop him from cheating on me. The marriage of two atheists is just as real as any other marriage.

          Marriage predates Christianity and it will still be around when Christianity is thrown in with Thor, Apollo and Zeuss as myths.

          My point is that you don’t get to decide whose marriage and relationship (because marriage is still a relationship) is worth as much as yours, simply because they don’t believe in what you believe in or because they’re of the same sex. You’re welcome to make it about your god, you’re welcome to interpret marriage as having a religious aspect. Go ahead. But marriage is about love. And the last time, your god wasn’t so loving. I’m reading the Bible at the moment, and I particularly enjoy all those parts where your god kills thousands of people… I think a personal favourite is Hosea 13:16: “The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords.”

          If that’s love, then I want nothing to do with it.

          Your beliefs don’t determine your morality. Your behaviour does.

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          • A-M

            I am happy for you that you are very much in love. I did not mean to offend you or your beliefs and I am sure you didn’t mean to offend me or my beliefs. Guess what though, I am not imaginary and nor are my friends. Our opinion needs to be heard equally as much as yours and your friends. So I am not going to disappear into imaginary land.

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            • LaurenHC

              By imaginary friends I meant your god. A-M, you did offend me. You offend everyone who isn’t Christian when you imply that love and marriage is only valid and real when it’s between two Christians, and they have to be of the opposite sex. You also offend same-sex couples who are Christian and don’t see that their love for each other stops them from loving their god. I know gay Christian couples.

              Of course I’ll get slammed for calling your god your imaginary friend now, but you have to realise that you can’t just go around slamming people’s love and then expect that they respect you for your beliefs. Believe in your god all you want. I’m not going to stop you.

              Why don’t you come out and say that you have a problem with homosexuality instead of bringing your god into it? Jesus says nothing about gay people being unconventional or whatever. When I see my friend Ryan and his new boyfriend holding hands, I see a committed, loving relationship, identical to my own- in other words, a conventional relationship.

              And it’s beautiful.

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            • A-M

              Is not the person you are with amazing and wonderful? How do you explain that goodness and love? Where does it come from? How do you explain the most intricate workings of nature? Lauren, I don’t wan’t to argue with you for argument’s sake, but in your own heart think about what the answer must be. My God is not imaginary and I will defend that truth. I hope and pray that life experience will lead you to God one day, not for my good or satisfaction….it will make no difference to me, but it will to you. It seems like you want a couple of different debates here…One about the existence of God is separate to the one about gay marriage. i don’t think at this stage we are going to agree on either. I can’t remember “slamming” anyone’s love for anyone else either. However I will note you have made reference to God, the Bible and Jesus in your arguments. How does an atheist such as yourself draw on sources such as these when by definition you apparently believe none of them exist?

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    • Karen

      Your comment is insane. It is in the typical black and white lens of a bigot.

      First of all – being gay is not something you choose, it is part of who you are! You don’t choose to flaunt convention, conventions are repressing who you really are.

      Secondly – being gay is but one small part of who a person is. That’s like saying that a woman who works, who flaunts “conventions” and “traditions”, shouldn’t then want to get married.

      idiocy.

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      • CJ

        Karen – You say “being gay is not something you chose”. Oh really? So are you suggesting that gay people are born that way? If so, where is the evidence? Your argument is common but has never been proven. Despite incredible breakthroughs in science there has never been the discovery of a ‘gay gene’. That’s because it is simply a choice. I chose to be straight and I carry no ‘straight gene’.
        Idiocy? I think not.

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        • Tess

          CJ, so forget scientific evidence for a minute then. Try common sense. Why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay, when being gay often means such discrimination? Do you seriously think people think, “Hmm, because I’m just a nasty little sinner and I want to flout convention and be a bit different..I think I’ll be gay. So what if it means I suffer hatred and discrimination and bullying all my life”. Its insane. Seriously, if being gay is a choice then what’s the big motivation?

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          • Anonymous

            Answer – In the same way I CHOOSE to be a Christian you can CHOOSE to be gay. Being a Christian doesn’t make you popular and brings with it all sorts of comments carrying bigotry and hatred. Just read many of the blogs on gay marriage! But I still make that choice. Standing up for what one believes has nothing to do with popularity. It saddens me (truly) that gay people have been rejected by society and also the church in many cases, but I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and I stand by my beliefs. I have no hatred towards gay people whatsoever as God loves them no more or less than any other persons and so do I.

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            • A-M

              Karen, you haven’t answered my question…perhaps you can cut and paste from someone else’s.

              Anonymous…thankyou for standing up for what you believe. It is not always easy to do.

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            • Lulu

              “In the same way I CHOOSE to be a Christian you can CHOOSE to be gay. ”

              Hmm, I CHOOSE not to be a practising Christian. I also CHOOSE not to be gay. Why does one of those choices allow me to marry, but a different choice would not?

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            • cabbagefairy

              How does one choose to be gay?

              If I have no luck with men can I wake up one day and decide that from now on I will be attracted to, fall in love with and date women? I don’t think so.

              The chances of me being attracted to and forming a relationship with another female are so tiny they basically don’t exist.

              You might want to clear this up for me but are you honestly saying each day you make a choice NOT to be gay? And that if you wanted to you could easily just switch over to loving, being attracted to and forming relationships with people of your own gender?

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            • Mel Myers

              Seriously? Seriously!? Choose to be gay? Have you ever engaged a gay or lesbian person in conversation and asked them about that ‘choice’? I can just imagine them saying, “Well, yes, actually, I just didn’t want to be attracted to the opposite sex, so I just kind of, you know, yeah, decided to be attracted to people with the same bits as me ’cause is sounds of cool, you know. I really wanted to get picked on at school and get called a fag everyday of my life and get punched up because that’s what all the cool people do”.

              How on can you possibly equate choosing to believe in a particular religion/god/s with ‘choosing’ to be sexually attracted to the same sex? Sexual preference is not a religion and it also doesn’t discriminate between whether someone is a Christian, an atheist, a Buddhist, a Muslim or a Wiccan. Are you being deliberately ignorant on this matter or is that a ‘choice’ you’re making to fit your chosen religious beliefs? Good grief.

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        • rudyroo

          Ridiculous arguement CJ.
          How do you know you don’t carry a ‘straight gene’?
          You’ve mapped out your DNA completely have you?
          You must be sitting on some great scientific secrets if you have.

          I think there are far more important genetic mysteries to discover (with the limited resources we have) and solve before we waist time and money on finding out for sure if homo or hetero sexuality is a genetic influence.

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          • CJ

            Good point rudyroo – Now pass on those thoughts to everyone who claims they were ‘born this way’!!

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        • Chi

          Whether you believe it is a choice or not, do you feel that everyone should be given equal protection under the law, given that they are doing nothing illegal?

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        • sharons

          You make it sound as though scientists can flip open a text book and find a picture with a caption underneath that reads “gay gene”

          I really love the way people simplify things because they don’t understand the complexity behind it.

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        • Anonymous

          Have you ever asked a gay person if they chose it? Probably not. Their response is evidence enough for me. And can I remind you that the church relies pretty heavily on anecdotal evidence.

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      • A-M

        I did not say that being gay is something that you choose or dont’ choose. I have some very good friends that are gay and they are great people and I am not a bigot or an idiot so stop the name calling – it adds nothing to your argument. All I have done is define what marriage is. Isn’t that where all debates should start? What is your definition of marriage? You sound very threatened to me.

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        • Chloe

          You have provided a definition for YOUR marriage, not EVERY marriage. You are welcome to hold those views about your own marriage, but your beliefs about what a marriage is or isn’t, or should or shouldn’t be are irrelevant when it comes to my marriage or anyone else’s.

          The fact that you insist that your definition applies to all marriages doesn’t mean it does. In the same way that the fact that you don’t agree with gay marriage doesn’t mean that people who do shouldn’t be able to support or access it. Two people of the same gender marrying doesn’t affect you or your marriage in the slightest.

          Or perhaps you’re suggesting that anything that doesn’t fit your narrow definition (him, her and God) isn’t really a marriage. I’m not really sure. It’s getting hard to follow your argument.

          The fact that other commenters haven’t provided their definition of marriage doesn’t mean that yours wins irrespective of who disagrees with it.

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      • Karen

        Sorry, the original comment was idiocy, and the subsequent comments were idiocy also.

        1. “What is your definition of marriage? You sound very threatened to me.”

        Well, I will ignore the weird ‘threatened’ comment (?!) and instead state my definition of marriage. My definition of marriage would be a LEGAL (not religious) commitment between two people (not man and woman necessarily).

        As a legal institution, I think it should be non-discriminatory – and should remove all religious connotations. I mean – Christians act like they INVENTED Marriage and no other religion or culture in the world has ever come up with anything so genius! ahahaha

        2. “So are you suggesting that gay people are born that way?”

        Yes. Yes I am. Because, actually – how else can you explain being attracted to someone? How exactly do you propose that people ‘choose’ who they are attracted to?

        Attraction is an ‘instinct’. I can’t even choose whether I am attracted to short/tall/fat/skinny people – I just am or I am not. It is all about how I feel.

        Sure, some people might be BORN gay and then CHOOSE to ignore it and PRETEND to be straight – but that is the saddest thing I have ever heard, and I don’t know WHY anyone would want a person to LIE their whole life?

        Imagine if your partner was really secretly gay. Wouldn’t that be terrible for them? That they are living a miserable lie? Struggling to pretend they aren’t attracted to the same sex?

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        • A-M

          I do not deny that people can be born gay. It is sad that some people feel they may have to hide it. That is not what this argument is about. It is about what exactly is marriage? Thankyou for defining what you believe marriage is, because it shows why we can’t agree. And I would like to thank “MAMA MIA” for creating this forum for fair and equitable speech. All viewpoints should be heard.

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        • savannahofaus

          Well said Karen.

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    • Kate

      Being openly gay only ‘flaunts’ the conventions and traditions of certain societies at certain stages in history. There have been periods in history where homosexuality (particularly male homosexuality in powerful circles) was well accepted.

      As for the irony of the gay lobby wanting to be a part of a centuries old tradition, the same could be said for women who wanted to be treated as equals but want to engage in a tradition that has its roots in property law (wife as literal property of husband). I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this, I put myself within this category. But my point is that the meanings of traditions and ceremonies vary depending on the individual and tend change in society over time.

      For some members of the gay community, being able to engage in society’s way of recognising unions is an important part of their personal journey and an important symbol of their equality.

      My heart broke when my gay cousin lamented that ‘well this is it’ for him and his partner (ie openly committed, live together, own property together, but cannot marry) when faced with the news of a straight cousin’s engagement.

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    • Tess

      Can you elaborate on your point, A-M? Marriage itself has evolved over many years. It predates Christianity, white dresses and gold rings. Today’s tradition or convention was yesterday’s radical departure. Marriage means what people want it to mean, it conforms to us not us blindly to it. If people want it to mean same-sex union then, welcome to Marriage ,Version 12.0. You make it sound like being gay is a choice to flout convention, like being a hippy, or wearing socks on your ears. Its not, its a reality that people are born with (YES!), why shouldn’t they also crave to belong to institutions heterosexual couples have always enjoyed? And then why shouldn’t those “traditions” evolve to reflect modern reality?

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      • Jess Bath

        Marriage pre-dates Christianity. Exactly! This is the best comment by far, thanks Tess for putting together your thoughts so succinctly.

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    • Jemma

      “Being openly gay flaunts the conventions and traditions of society” – just a moment while I pick up my jaw, it hit the floor as a result of the sheer stupidity of your comment. My god, I can’t believe you even thought that, let alone posted it in a public forum – your ignorance has amazed me.

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  14. Jash

    As much as I’m for gay marriage and less input by religion, not sure if using the tv media to push a political agenda is appropriate. Quite worrying actually because if tv stations are allowed to start becoming openly political, what if all the moguls that own them vote the same way? We will never get unbiased opinion – except for the ABC. We know this is already a huge problem, it’s so important we keep it under control. Let’s hope that gay marriage gets pushed through by its own momentum and quickly. As for those of you who claim to be Christian or Catholic yet support gay marriage, isn’t that hypocritical?? Your institutions are the reason why issues like these have taken so long to come to the fore in the first place. I really cannot fathom why anyone who agreed with gay marriage would then be able to step into a Catholic church, when it still refers to gays as natural abominations. If people really don’t like their religion’s policies, why not send a message by leaving the church so they understand that their centuries old doctrines are not always relevant today. By passively picking and choosing your beliefs, you are just fair weather friends who stand for nothing.

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  15. Tess

    The church are going to sign their own death warrant in the long run. Their views on things like gay marriage and women in church leadership roles are going to make them seem more and more archaic (as a lot of us already feel). They need to get with the program or die the slow death of increasing irrelevance. They’re in a 1950′s time warp.

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  16. Anon

    The thing about gay marriage that really has to be understood is that if a gay couple decide to have children, the marriage involves three adults not two. It is not fair to exclude a child from it’s biological mother or father. I think most reasonable people who care about children would concede this. Perhaps this is ok. Perhaps it’s fine for a child to have three parents. It just needs to be understood that this is what gay marriage ultimately means if we are going to be fair to children.

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    • Huh?

      Noone seems to take issue when heterosexual couples adopt so why the outcry if gay couples have children? Looks like one rule for one group and a different set of rules for others

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      • a

        Totally agree, Huh?. I’m adopted and following Anon’s thoughts it wasn’t really fair of my mum and dad to exclude my biological parents. In fact, three adults is nothing, in my case there are four! Forget about gay marriage, let’s ban adoption before things get out of hand.

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    • F

      What about the kids with 4 parents? 2 biological parents and 2 step parents. I have a number of friends with this situation and they had a lovely childhood. I don’t understand how this is an argument against.

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    • Karen

      YEt another nonsensical ‘argument’ against gay marriage – it’s easy to point out the holes in it!

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      • KUp

        Agreed Karen! And let’s not forget, marriage does NOT equal children.

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  17. Balance?

    Hi
    I am totally for same sex marriage and cannot fathom why anyone would object to the legal union of two people who love each other.
    That said, I am totally with “Anonymous” below – if MM is to be considered balanced journalism both links should be provided, to support Sunrise and to support the ACL.
    This is probably why this forum gets slammed on occasion – too PC and too one sided.
    There’s no objectivity – so it’s not balanced journalism and one editorial opinion (over and over again) just can’t be taken seriously.

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    • Rick Morton

      If you think the ‘daily buzz’ post is a journalistic enterprise, you’re barking up the wrong tree! Just FYI.

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      • Balance?

        Ha Ha Rick… well, you just said it all…

        At least we’re in agreement – not a tad of journalism here! :-)

        But don’t you think that people deserve balance and fairness? I agree with the issue, just not the lack of impartiality. Both links would have given MM and this ‘non journalistic piece’ a bit more credibility.

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        • Rick Morton

          We published with a specific purpose in mind. The same way Sunrise supports same sex marriage, so does MM. If people want to support the ACL they are free to do so! They’re more than welcome to Google the website.

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          • Balance?

            Hi Rick
            I get the ‘purpose’ and I agree with you on the issue.
            Just thought that MM was supposed to be a quasi journalistic forum – you do report the news and latest issues. So, whatever the post shouldn’t it be balanced? Just find that on many politically based issues it’s just so one sided and preachy.
            I don’t think anyone expects you to promote or publish the specifics of the ACL agenda – but do think that if you’re going to offer the ease of a link to support your own view, basic fairness would demand the link to the opposing view.
            And… that’s just MY view of course!

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            • Rick Morton

              Like most people in Oz, we don’t support the ACL. We won’t link to it in the same way we won’t link to the AVN. There are a few issues where we won’t compromise our values.

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            • Balance?

              Rick,
              I am totally with you on the AVN issue too.
              But, I am also pretty sure you definitely supplied a link to their site in an earlier post if only for people to accurately judge how wrong they are.
              Anyhow, over and out – we agree on the issues – but disagree on the method.

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    • Counterpoint

      No one really thinks this site has anything to do with journalism do they? It’s just a vehicle to deliver consumers to advertisers, I don’t think it really pretends to be anything else.

      If people get confused about what this website is – a business – its a bit of a worry.

      Cut and paste jobs of stories from news sites and poorly written sponsored posts don’t really qualify as journalism.

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  18. goose

    If you’re against gay marriage, then don’t marry someone of the same sex!

    My understanding is that the church won’t recognise gay marriage anyway. So why do the ACL care what the state does? In their opinion it won’t be “holy” matrimony anyway.

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    • Anonymous

      Haha you are the voice of reason. I love it.

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  19. Sam P

    It actually made me feel sick reading the comments on the ACL website regarding Sunrise.

    “…Almost every time I see approval of same sex marriage flouted in my face, I shudder to think what sort of environment my two children (William, 3 and Grace, 4) will grow up in. My children should not be asking me why two men are doing holding hands in the street like mummy and daddy…”

    Well I SHUDDER to think that I live in a country with people who are so hateful. MY children whould not be asking me “why does someone who I have never met have such a big issue with who I love and who I dont?”

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    • Teeheehee

      William & Grace – really? Is that their kids’ names? As in, WILL & GRACE? As in, one of the funniest comedies of all time that is based on the lives of two gay men……??

      *rolling on the floor with the irony*

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      • picardie.girl

        OMG, I didn’t even notice that! BAHAHAHAHA.

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      • Kelly

        That comment is the best day of my life! HAHA! :)

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        • Kris2040

          Oh that is GOLD. I didn’t pick it up either! Hahahahahahaha

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    • L

      I completely agree Sam, I am dreading explaining to my children that there are nasty, hateful people in this world that think they have the right to dictate who you love!

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  20. Anonymous

    It’s really important if you support same sex marriage to follow the link above and tell Sunrise how you feel – would hate for them to receive more emails from the ACL than emails of support!

    If you missed it, the link is here :
    http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/marriage-equality/sunrise/sunrise-are-standing-up-for-marriage-equality

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  21. Anonymous

    Just wondering where the link is if someone wanted to support ACL?

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    • Anonymous

      You would need to go to the ACL website – they have a link.

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    • Anon

      http://australianmarriage.org/petition/

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    • Anonymous

      www. bigots-are-us.com

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      • Anonymous

        Thanks, says it all really.

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      • Oh The Irony

        Ummm…. why is Anon a bigot for their one sided views and Anonymous are not for yours?
        Isn’t this whole issue about accepting the position of others?
        Geez.
        Don’t agree with Anon, but defend the right to say and post the link, that was not posted on the original article from MM.

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        • redballoon

          No it’s not about accepting the position of others, that is ridiculous. Are you for real?
          It is about allowing people rights or being a bigot and not allowing them rights.
          I don’t see the irony here, at all.

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          • Oh The Irony

            Ok Red Balloon you’re right. No irony at all.
            If Anon has no right to their view, neither do you to yours.
            In my book ‘rights’ are not just defined by actual experience, but by the ability to express a view and not be immediately labeled a bigot for it.
            All Anon did was provide a corresponding website to the one published in the article – providing a different view and didn’t even make a comment as to whether he/she supports that view.
            I don’t support that view, but I certainly defend anyone’s right to express a contrary opinion to mine without being labelled a bigot.
            Because that of course would be the definition of bigotry.

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            • redballoon

              You are still expressing your opinion, no-one is stopping you. So what is your point?

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  22. Beatrice

    I’m sorry but Lindsay Lohan has not enough resemblance to Elizabeth Taylor for me. The closest resemblance are the eyebrows placed upon her by makeup artists.

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  23. Wendy

    I love the way the banks now have us primed to expect nothing when the RBA reduces interest rates.

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  24. katherine anne

    As a Christian, I want to make it clear that the ACL do NOT represent my views on gay marriage.

    I want to apologise on behalf of all Christians and I want to assure you that we’re not all bad!!!

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    • Elspeth

      I agree.

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    • Cait

      As a catholic, I wholeheartedly agree. This illustration sums up my sentiment on gay marriage quite nicely…

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      • InKL

        Oh that is brilliant. Can I use it please?

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        • Cait

          Its not mine – so go right ahead and spread the (unconditional) love :)

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    • CJ

      The ACL represent biblical arguments. If you claim to be a christian then wouldn’t you want to support ACL? You are of course free to have your opinion, it’s just that it isn’t supported by God and Bible. Most Christians oppose SSM because they stand by the teachings of Jesus. Sure, have your opinion katherine, as long as you aren’t suggesting it’s biblical. Those blogs commenting on Leviticus and eating shellfish just show how little they know in their understanding of scripture. If they are going to oppose the Christian view they are better off not using biblical text and reveal their lack of understanding, but rather find some other reasoning in their pursuit in this debate. And that’s MY opinion!

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      • CJ

        Does the bible say “dont let gay people marry!”? Of course not.

        Love one another as I have loved you, is the ONLY THING RELEVANT in this argument. Did Jesus teach people to reject the lepers/saracens etc (and lets be honest, they actually posed a threat to health etc, unlike homosexuality)? NO he taught love and acceptance.

        The ACL represent misinformed and misconstrued views of the bible which is supposed to teach love, respect and kindness.

        There.

        Signed a very devout Catholic who *supports* marriage for love, rather than on a sexually discriminative basis.

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        • CJ

          No, the bible doesn’t speak about gay marriage, nor did Jesus say it was ok to drive your car without a licence. It does however say that homosexuality is a sin. so have your opinion which I respect, but it is your opinion not the teachings of Jesus!
          signed: a lover and follower of Jesus and his teachings

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          • Kris2040

            Why has what the bible says (depending on your interpretation) got anything to do with a legal right?

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      • Anon

        “Most Christians oppose SSM because they stand by the teachings of Jesus.”

        If you can find me the passage in the Bible where Jesus says SSM or even homosexuality isn’t ok, I might think you have a point.

        Oh, there isn’t one?

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        • CJ

          Anon – Your lack of biblical revelation fails your argument. As I said before, if those who support SSM want to strengthen their argument they best not try and use the bible. To a Christian they simply look foolish and using the bible makes their point invalid. Jesus did not say anything directly about gay marriage. However, others clearly spoke on homosexuality. I haven’t got room here for a full explanation but basically as the bible is the Word of God, if Apostle Paul for example says that homosexuality is sin or others state it then it has the same power and authority as Jesus himself saying it. If you had revelation on the bible from the Holy Spirit then this would be basic Christianity. Jesus didn’t stop the crowd from throwing stones because he approved of what she did (prostitution) but rather that he saw the sin in everyone. He would heal sinners and tell them to ‘go and sin no more’ rather than support their lifestyle. We are all sinners…that’s the first step to knowing who Jesus really is. Once again, please don’t use the bible when you simply don’t understand it’s context.

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          • redballoon

            The bible is not the word of god!
            Where do you people get this rubbish?
            Seriously, get a grip.

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            • CJ

              The bible IS the Word of God. That’s foundational Christianity. Of course you are free to have your opinion, however I believe differently. And yes I do have a grip on the Bible….seriously

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            • redballoon

              Oh, dear.
              Then really we cannot have a rational discussion, can we?

              Made up books are great for book club discussions, but generally not so much for discussions of civil rights.

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            • Anonymous

              your disrespect of others beliefs when different to yours sets an appauling example redballon.

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            • redballoon

              You’ve lost me.
              Why do I have to respect others beliefs?

              I don’t respect the beliefs of racists, sexists, bigots or people that use religion to justify their opinions.
              I don’t have to.
              I love freedom.

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    • CJ

      Clearly the ACL don’t represent YOUR views as you support gay marriage. No need to apologise on behalf of Christians Katherine….I deal with many many churches across the country from varying denominations and by far the overwhelming majority do NOT support your argument. Of course many people label themselves Christians simply because they were baptized as a child or went to church once upon a time. These may well support gay marriage but most practising Christians don’t support it. Oh, and we’re not all bad either!

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  25. ads

    do you know what one of my proudest moments was? When my 11 year old son was watching something on TV about homosexuals. I think it was on ABC 3 and a teenage boy was struggling with his sexuality. He turned to me and said “So he likes other boys, whats the big deal?” I knew then that I had done something right. There is hope for the future.

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  26. Nicki

    I’ve expressed my support for gay marriage countless times, and I won’t stop until gay marriage is no longer opposed for whatever “reason”.

    1. I’m not a fan of GP, so I will refrain from commenting, because I’m probably biased.

    2. Congratulations to David, he his an inspiration – but I don’t think it would be fair to hold all disadvantaged people up to his achievements. If we do that, then we MM readers should ALL be rocket surgeons.

    3. Impersonating a police officer is nothing new. But getting away with it for a month at the watch house? Goes to show 18 year olds know more than we give them credit for.

    4. I like that idea. Can we PLEASE give kids their own sound-proof booth?

    5. Amazing resemblance, let’s not write LiLo off just yet.

    6. I have no opinion, because I don’t give a stuff about any code of sport.

    7. I don’t like the concept of Royalty, but I love Lizzie, and I congratulate her for being Queen in times of unforseen political, social, techological and economic change which her predecessors couldn’t possibly have imagined.

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    • Anonymous

      I’m not a GP fan either but she was quoting a song. Sometimes I feel like we are being dared to say the dredded ‘N’ word so that we can be accused of racism

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  27. Guest

    “The ACL suggested its members might like to: “Register your disgust that the press, supposedly the neutral umpire and facilitator of public debate, should allow itself to be captured by the propaganda machine of the gay lobby.”

    Excuse me while I pick myself up, I just fell off my chair laughing. The press have never been impartial, never been neutral. Rupert Murdoch anyone? Channel 9 scripting pokies comments? That’s the negative side. On the positive side media outlets frequently run campaigns on different issue like when an injustice has been done. Neutral they are not.

    Channel 7 is well within it’s rights to pick up a social issue and promote it. Without the media campaigning for a variety of social causes we might still be stuck in the dark ages.

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  28. Craig

    Press neutral, since when did that happen?

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  29. backagain

    I think Elizabeth Taylor would turn in her grave. Number one, she never wanted anyone to portray her and number two, she and Richard Burton hated the name ‘liz and dick’. But oh well – them’s the breaks! I’ll still watch the show.

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    • Ella

      yeah and number 3, its LINDSAY LOHAN

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  30. Jess C

    Good on Sunrise and Marie Claire for taking up the fight. I hope I get to see gay marriage become a reality in Australia sooner rather than later.

    As for the Gwyneth thing? I can see where people are coming from in that the word is terribly offensive.. but there’s this thing called context and I think it’s pretty obvious she didn’t mean it in a derogatory manner, but as a pop culture reference.

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  31. Counterpoint

    I think it’s a dangerous path when the media gets involved in “campaigns”. A truly free media is an impartial one. The media needs to report both sides of a story (unless they are totally crackpot like creationism or anti-vaxing) without fear or favor. It’s possible to do this with the same sex marriage debate – without giving the ACL any oxygen.

    For the record I support gay marriage and I also work in the media. I would never, ever let my personal views influence my reporting.

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    • Counter counter

      Where you put the camera, fullstop, how you phrase an interview question, how you frame a person, how you use dialogue all contribute to a viewpoint. No media is purely objective. That’s naive.

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      • Counterpoint

        Viewpoint doesn’t mean active advocacy. It’s actually not that difficult to be objective, and I can say that after more than 15 years in the industry.

        You ask one side “explain your position”. Then you ask the other side the exact same question. Then you report faithfully, with equal weight and without distortion what they both have to say.

        That way the public gets to make an informed decision. The facts tend to speak for themselves.

        It’s not the job of the media to campaign for any cause, no matter how worthy. That is the job of advocacy groups and NGOs.

        The marriage equality question is purely political, it’s about policies that will keep one party in power. The moral issue is a sideshow.

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    • Craig

      The press does not even pretend to be neutral. Newspapers don’t hide their political bias. If you want something that at least is trying to be unbiased and neutral you need to read a science journal, at least it is pier reviewed.

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      • Counterpoint

        Yeah but peer reviewed science journals can be awfully dry ;)

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    • Nicki

      So, you don’t work for Murdoch, then….

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      • CC

        Wow counterpoint you’ve really got the equation nailed. As someone who works within earshot of a newsroom I know the journalists haven’t been given your concise instructions on how to be objective you make it sound so easy.
        And remember this is breakfast tv we’re talking about when has that ever been neutral? At least they’re using their powers for good for once.

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  32. Michelle

    Can’t help but wonder what Diana would be making of the jubilee if she was still with us? Would the royals still be held in the high esteem they are? What if…

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    • Nicki

      Michelle, many people have married into families without truly understanding what they were marrying into. With all respect to Diana, she had a better idea than most.

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      • Michelle

        I agree to an extent, even so she was only 19 when married so not sure she really knew what she was getting into before going into that marriage. Tragic nonetheless

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      • Lulu

        Nicki, like Michelle said – she was just 19. Charles was 32 and had absolutely no reason for not knowing what he was bringing her into. What’s his excuse?

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  33. Anon

    Shove it up your bum ACL.

    And yes, I would say that at a dinner party

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    • passing through

      Shove it up your bum

      I hardly think Shove it up your bum is an appropriate response to make to an article that is discussing a Gay (male) issue.

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      • Nicki

        I think it’s a totally appropriate response, passing through. Many of us support homosexual rights, and retain our sense of humour, too.

        http://www.burgy.50megs.com/hetero.htm

        Edited: Heterosexuals do anal sex too, by the way

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      • Emmy

        Gay marriage is not a male issue!! Hello lesbians! Jeez.

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  34. Anonymous

    wow, we were 2 days into the week and you had not jumped on the gay marrage band wagon MM. I was getting worried, but thanks goodness, normality resumed.

    Remember please, whatever your view on the topic, that it is not just radicals like ACL that dont support gay marriage. It is not far off 50:50 in Australia on this issue, so making out that anyone that opposes gay marriage is akin to some of the loons at ACl is a big stretch.

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    • redballoon

      But there is something radical about wanting to deny so many people the same rights as all the hetros.
      So, really you have a fair bit in common, christian nutter or not christian nutter.

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      • Anonymous

        I just think it disrespectful to label around 50% of the Australian population that have a different view to you as nutters. Seems to be the way of the pro gay marriage lobby group though, thanks for underscoring my point perfectly.

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      • redballoon

        Whoops, I mean to say christian nutter or non-christian nutter.
        And when I say nutter I mean ‘radical’.

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    • Rick Morton

      I am delighted to have alleviated your worry. No, really ;)

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    • Jessie

      I actually think it is far off 50:50 on this issue, the most recent polls (galaxy, newspol, roy morgon) indicate that up to 78% of Australians support same sex marriage or marriage equality (depending on what poll you use, but the lower end being 60% supporting same sex marriage).

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      • Anonymous

        I love those stats that are prefaced with ‘up to’, it gives you so much faith in the number. You never hear a ‘down to’ statistic interestingly enough, which seem to suggest that the people quoting these numbers have a agenda to push.

        And even if it is 60:40, it is still disrespectful to call 40% of Australias population nutters.

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        • Jessie

          The 60:40 was a statistic from 2009, the higher stats (75% or over as Nicki has pointed out) are from more recent polls. I haven’t suggested those who oppose gay marriage are nutters, but I have yet to hear any reasonable argument as to why people of any sexuality cannot marry one another.

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          • CJ

            Poll on Nine MSN 10 May 2012 – 55% (77000 voters) oppose gay marriage, 45% in support. Which polls would you like to refer to? The ones convenient for your argument?

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        • a

          I find it disrespectful that people still oppose gay marriage.

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        • redballoon

          Our definitions of “disrespectful” are very different.
          I find you disrespectful of same sex couples.
          I find you disrespectful of the truth and statistics.

          I think that finding radical people radical or ‘nutters’ as I have been wont to call them, well…I just call that: calling a spade a spade!

          And I am a big fan of the website ‘stfu conservatives’ and have taken to heart the idea that ‘liberals’ are just too nice. We shouldn’t pull our punches when it comes to discussing people who support hatred and discrimination.

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          • Anonymous

            How am I disrespectful ffs, I didnt even declare my personal view on the issue.

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      • Anonymous

        hello, why did you delete Rick??? More MM thought control hey.

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        • Rick Morton

          I haven’t deleted anything from this post, there’s a few of us that work here!

          Edit: I think I know what comment you mean, found it in trash. Just restored it for you. You can thought control me later ;)

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          • Anonymous

            well, ask whoever did (I dont think there are thousands of you working nights there), as there was NOTHING delete worthy in my reply to Jessie. You guys are incredibly trigger happy in this respect. I get sick of being deleted for nothing, while you let those that support your views say whatever offensive thing they wish to.

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            • Rick Morton

              Check my edit, I restored it for you. Whoever deleted it, it shouldn’t have been and it’s back now.

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    • Nicki

      Dear (yet another) Anonymous,

      How exactly does other peoples’ sexuality effect YOU personally? I mean, unless you have a partner who is “in the closet” (for want of a better term), I truly don’t get why are you so offended?

      Just so you know, I find YOUR attitude offensive!

      I don’t know where you’re getting the “not far off 50:50 statistic in Australia on this issue” from – please feel free to share your source, and I’m sure there’s only one source.

      As I understand it, by far most of the research in Australia shows that those in favour of gay marriage is 75% or over.

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      • Anonymous

        Funny, I dont remember declaring my position on the matter in any of my comments. Please point out where I did, I am intrigued. I wait with interest for you to point out the quote I made….

        If you must know, I sit on the fence, dont really care either way, but feel it is eventually going to happen.

        My only points related to the treatment on here of those that have another view to the standard MM line, given that a very large proportion of Australians do. So quick to judge me with no cause….a true MMer.

        Oh, and PS, your 75% statistic is complete bollocks. Every reliable representative survey has it slight in favour of the ‘in favour’ side, but only very slightly (a few percent).

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  35. AG

    I may just be in a bit of a bad mood but fuck the ACL and their views that don’t belong in this decade! I mean really…My sister is gay and sure she may not want to marry but if she did then its none of their business if she did, how does it impact them? Tell me how, I’m soooo interested. Lesbians/Homosexuals have the same rights as ‘the rest of us’. When will these self righteous assholes get off of their high horse? Confused & disappointed :(

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    • Anon

      It’s FRUSTRATING! I feel your pain AG ( also not gay just sick of these morons)

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      • AG

        I think your awesome…thanks for some common sense!!

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    • Jules

      Also not gay and totally agree, sick to death of the bullshit, it makes me really angry. Live and let live FFS.

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  36. Andy

    For what it’s worth, the ACL doesn’t speak for all (or even many) Christians

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    • Vegas

      That’s actually a really important point Andy!

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    • katherine anne

      Amen brother!
      They (the ACL) actually make us look rather backwards and loopy.

      They definitely don’t represent my views as a Christian.

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    • KUp

      Unfortunately they seem to have a lot of power though? Can anyone explain why – I’d genuinely like to understand! Is it the media using them for controversial/extreme viewpoint, political links?
      I read that they are urging Christians to boycott Sunrise sponsors- do the ACL accept sponsorship/corporate donations? I ask because I’d boycott those organizations …

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  37. kaufman

    Good on Sunrise! I’m so happy that more Australian celebrities and media outlets are beginning to take notice of this.

    As for Gwyneth Paltrow, that’s really not cool. She should apoligise. It is never okay for white people to use the words “n*gger” or “n*gga”

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    • elle

      Umm its the title of a song? Why should she apologise?

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      • Charleesarah

        Because she used the title of the song not to refer to the song but to refer to the two singers of the song, singing it in Paris, in an attempt to be funny that didn’t quite come off.

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        • Skom

          The mud your in seems awfully sticky.

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        • elle

          I don’t think that was her intention at all. She was just saying she was listening to the song ‘Niggas in Paris’ in Paris. If JayZ and Kanye don’t have a problem with it why should anyone else? Wayyy too PC

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          • kaufman

            Whether or not she intended to be racist, it was still racist. And Jay Z and Kanye West don’t speak for all black people. What you have said is effectively saying “my black friend said it’s okay.”

            Something white people have to understand is that the word “n*gger” does not belong to us. Black people can use this word in whatever context they choose, but it’s not okay for white people to say it.

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            • elle

              Racist?? Oh come on! How ridiculous.
              Your interpretation was that she was calling Kanye and JayZ niggas and you are saying it is racist and offensive to all black people even though the men you allege she insulted have no issue with it. This aside from the fact she was just quoting a song title. No different from seeing someone sing “New York girls” and writing a tweet saying “New York girls for real”

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          • a

            Elle, are you kidding me? Did you just compare the use of the n word to saying ‘New York girls’?

            The one privilege white people do not have is freedom to use the n word.

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    • Anonymous

      As she said, it’s the title of the hit song. She wasn’t calling someone the n-word, she was simply referencing a song title.

      Because it’s called what it’s called, does that mean no white person can write “My favourite song right now is Ni**as in Paris”? And aren’t Mamamia then being just as offensive by also writing the song title?

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      • Katrina

        Exactly, what am I supposed to call this song instead? If I used a different name for the song no one would be able to find it if they wanted to listen as well. It’s not her fault that they named their song that.

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        • kaufman

          Just don’t say it. If you wanted to say it in conversation you could say something like “my favourite song is ___ in Paris by Jay Z and Kanye West” and most people would know what you are talking about.
          Jay Z and Kanye West can call their song whatever they want. It is not their job to make white people feel comfortable.

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          • Anonymous

            Political correctness to the point of stupidity.

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            • a

              No it’s not. You’re using PC as an a way to excuse racism. As much as I love GP she should have known better.

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          • Anonymous

            lol that’s just ridiculous. It is the title of their song!

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          • Claire

            Wow! That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read today.

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            • a

              The real ridiculous thing is the history of oppression that black people and other POCs have experienced and still experience today.

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    • Melf

      Dude, it’s a word that shouldn’t be used in a derogatory way by any race, not just white people! And she didn’t mean it in a derogatory way. I don’t see why she or I can’t use the song title as it was intended just because I am white. And believe me, due to this weather I am white. I know many rappers use it in their lyrics to feel like they have a claim on it but I wish they would stop, it has such awful connotations and when I hear kids using it in the playground as ‘slang’ I shudder. I also wish they’d stop using bitch and ho.

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      • kaufman

        Excuse me. How dare you, as a white person, tell people of colour what words they can and cannot use. This word in particular was used for decades to degrade and dehumanise black people, so they have every right to use it as they see fit.
        And I don’t care whether or not Gwyneth Paltrow meant to be offensive or not. Regardless of her intent, it was still racism.

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        • Anonymous

          If coloured people can use it then ANYONE can use it regardless of the colour of their skin.

          If coloured people find the word so offensive then they should stop using it too, otherwise I’m sorry their argument just doesn’t stack up.

          As long as they feel fine using it, so will I.

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          • a

            It’s along the same line as slut shaming. Women have reclaimed the word ‘slut’ but that still doesn’t make it okay for men to call women sluts.

            Black people have reclaimed the n word and rightfully so, but that still does not give white people the right to use it. The fact that you think you can has white privilege written all over it.

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          • kaufman

            “Coloured people” – are you serious? And how does the argument not stack up? The word has been used to oppress them for decades. They can use it as they choose because it’s empowering for them. This word doesn’t empower white people, so we can’t use it.

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        • elle

          Well I think it is racism for you to suggest that only black people can use the word nigga and however they want. How dare you tell a white person what words they can and cannot use.

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          • a

            You’re being sarcastic, right?

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          • kaufman

            There’s no such thing as racism against white people.

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        • Claire

          This is ridiculous. Obviously, you are from the ‘two points make a line’ variety of commentators.

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  38. emerald

    I think it is so nice that Mama Mia has shared the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee with us. I can’t imagine 60 solid years of service to the community. And she does not look like she is done yet. Don’t you just want to hug her! And her son calling her “Your Majesty”!!!

    And Bye the bye, how old do Paul and Elton look? Makes me afraid to look in the mirror!

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    • I was watching it this morning – the concert – and I realised that the pecking order in Britain is The Queen > Paul McCartney > Everyone else ;)

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    • Sparky

      I remember an interview with Prince Charles about the restoration of Windsor Castle after the fire and the interviewer asked how ‘your brother, Andrew’ was assisting, to which Prince Charles replied ‘You mean his Highness the Duke of York? Oh, he’s doing such-and-such…’ It wasn’t done rudely, just put the interviewer very firmly in his place!

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  39. What I don’t understand is this…the Australian Christian Lobby (ACL) only represents a minority of Christians, and yet they are considered to be “the country’s most powerful ‘family values’ group”?

    Are they really that powerful? Or is it just smoke and mirrors? Why do people pay attention to what they say? Surely there are other Christian groups with more members that support Gay Marriage…I’d hope so…

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    • Rick Morton

      I wish it were about members only. If that were the case, we wouldn’t have a problem as every poll consistently shows more than 50% of Christians support same sex marriage. No, this is about political power…

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      • How does that happen? How does a small minority get so much “virtual” power…I don’t get it…surely Sunrise and Marie Clare have more political clout than the ACL..surely they can just ignore them…it’s like the Chewbacca defence…it just doesn’t make sense…

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        • Rick Morton

          The same way independents gain a little more power in a hung parliament … opportunity, luck and being close to those who make the laws. Oh, and leverage ;)

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    • detachableprincess

      Just remember, JJ, the Christian Right is neither.

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    • Anon

      ‘Family values’ is a misnomer. They don’t speak for my family, nor, I suspect, do they speak for a majority of others. Australian Christian Lobby values is more appropriate…but then that wouldn’t have the desired effect of trying to fool the Australian population that the majority are against marriage equality.

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      • Dee of Adelaide

        20% of GPs are members of the AMA – it always amazes me that they are the loudest voice in primary care when so few people involved in it join them….

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        • Anonymous

          They are just a union really. People say the same about other unions in this country. Why do they have so much power with declining membership?

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      • vanessayoung

        Few phrases are as terrifying to me as “family values”. To me it means all gay people go back into the closet, women’s right to chose disappears and censorship of the arts returns. Scary stuff!

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        • Mel Myers

          Yep, in a nutshell, as they say!

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