Here we go again.
Pregnant? Incapacitated? Elderly? Then ‘i-Gen’ are not your friend. They’re the under 20s who – according to a survey of 2500 – are more concerned with themselves than manners in public.
Staring, talking loudly, texting while weaving all over the footpath.
And that’s to say nothing of those who have no idea how to wield an umbrella on a rainy day in a crowded plaza.
The survey asked people from across the generations (from the under 20s to the Baby Boomers and senior citizens) how they felt about giving up their seat on trains and buses and other acts many of us assumed were basic manners.
“The survey found I-Gen are less likely to open a door for women, more likely to look the other way when a pregnant woman is searching for a seat and more accepting of calling work colleagues “darl” or “hon”.
Those aged 20 to 30 fared little better, coming in second-rudest, while senior citizens were unsurprisingly at the other end of the spectrum.
Softer disciplining techniques, lack of parenting and the proliferation of technology that detaches youths from the “real world” have all been blamed for the apparent decline in decorum.
“It’s dangerous to walk down the street today because people are sending text messages and not watching what they’re doing,” etiquette immortal June Dally-Watkins said yesterday.
“If we’re going to be pressing buttons and not considering other people we could become a bunch of robots.
“You have to communicate with people eye to eye, face to face, and that’s what gives us personality.”
The whole conversation was started after soon-to-give-birth journalist Letitia Rowlands wrote a column about the daily battle to find a seat on Sydney’s packed trains. Have a guess how that worked for her.
“At eight months pregnant with my second child, it’s not hard for me to feel like the elephant in the room.
But the ability of a packed peak-hour Sydney train to ignore my supersize existence leaves me gobsmacked.
All eyes are diverted from the moment those lucky seat-dwellers spy me and my belly out the window as the train pulls into my station.
Newspapers, books, phones and iPads become the focus of their attention.
Within seconds the unfortunate souls who find themselves without any reading material to hide behind close their eyes and feign sleep.”
It’s easy to get carried away when anyone talks about the ‘generations’. (Is there even an agreed upon, uniform age for each gen?) But maybe there’s a nugget of truth in all this. Maybe as time drags on, each new brood of people reinterpret what we consider to be manners law. It used to be in vogue for men to help ladies across the street, bow and tip their hats without so much as an introduction. Now they don’t even really wear hats, and so on.
And what’s the difference between eternally relevant good manners and being a bit over the top and unwieldy?
So, over to you. What are the worst manners offences and who are the worst offenders? Can any one group be singled out?
Comments
362 Comments so far
Middle aged people are the rudest, I am in my 30s and while I find younger people can be a bit annoying, they generally are not out and out rude for no good reason. 50 somethings, babyboomers are usually the most impatient, rude and selfish people you could encounter. I was standing aside in a crowded shop yesterday to let a little old lady pass by as she looked like it was not easy for her to walk and was a bit scared of getting bumped into with all the people around. While I am leaving her room to step around me a couple of 50 year olds came pushing through, bumping into me and the old lady. Absolutely ridiculous!
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I have actually found the least considerate generation are the 35-50year olds. Seriously. I work as a speed dating host, so I regularly deal with all the agegroups (ranging from 18 – 70+). People in their 20s – mid 30s tend to be lovely – fun, respectful and appreciative – ditto the over 50s, who are hilarious, so polite and respectful, and out for a good time! But 35-45/50 year olds tend to be the rudest. There will regularly be individuals who spend most of their night complaining and belittling others (to feel better about themselves maybe?)
In terms of more general circumstances, whenever I’m on a train/tram, it is the schoolkids who instantly give up their seats without question. Then the people in their 20s. The over 35s – forget it. They are glued to their seats.
I have also recently gone back to uni, and having regular classes with students in their late teens and early 20s, I am constantly delighted by how positive, energised, motivated and confident they are. Yes there are some tools. But most I have come across are very considerate. Yes, they may text more. Who cares? Everyone does!
I don’t like to whitewash any generation, saying everyone in it is the same. Frankly, I think that’s ridiculous. But if there is a trend in terms of lack of courtesy, I have noticed it more in the the 35-50 agegroup rather than the late teens/20s. Leave the kids alone!!
(For the record I have just turned 30, and am a proud gen-Yer).
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I’d agree about 35-50s. I’m heavily pregnant, and if that age group reported in a survey that they stand up for the pregnant, they wrote such out of vanity. They are the first to hide behind a newspaper. You’d think at least some of the women could empathise..
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The building I currently live in (I’m moving in two weeks, thank goodness) has some of the rudest people I ever encountered. They are mostly all colleged aged or older. It’s very rare to find anyone over the age of 30 living in here. I didn’t know that when I picked this building. I picked it because it’s cheap and very close to work. After I moved in and got to know the area, I realized it’s down the street from the college, which is why there are so many students here. At first I was excited. I am 26 (moved in when I was 23) so I thought it would be great to live in a building full of people who are about the same age as me. However, these people seem to be different from most people I encountered. I am not originally from this city, so I don’t know the area or the people but sometimes I’ve wondered if these city kids were raised differently then the small town kids I grew up with. No one my age from my old town is this rude.
They throw things from the balconies to hit people, they refuse to hold the doors open, they purposely shut the elevators on people, they yell rude things at people, I saw a couple of guys not too much younger than me actually knock groceries from and elderly ladies arms! I went and helped her, but that is something I’ve never seen anyone do! They thought it was hilarious. I think they might have been drinking, but still, it was messed up.
I am not a beautiful woman. I am kind of plain looking, and for most of my life (even in my small town) I’ve been made fun of for it. It started to go away the older I got though. And then I moved into these buildings and I’ve encountered ruder insults than what I did in HIgh School. The youngest of these people are 18, the oldest in their late twenties and they still bully? The bullying for me pretty much stopped in grade 12 in High School. So why are the people here so different that they are still bullying people like me, or others? I live in Ontario Canada, so the drinking age here is 19. That might explain some of the behaviour… kids out on their own for the first time and able to drink, but I am not too sure about that. I moved out a month before my 20th birthday and I never vandalized stuff or hurt people. Neither did my friends.
And I don’t think these people are intoxicated some of the time when they are being jerks.
I can’t wait to move. At the moment, I am still awake at midnight even though I have to be up at 5 in the morning just because there are a bunch of them screaming and yelling off their balconies. Calling the cops doesn’t help either, believe me. Two more weeks. That’s what I keep telling myself. Two more weeks.
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Actually I think elderly people can be extremely rude – using their age as an excuse for poor behaviour. Recently I was at an afternoon tea with my two daughters (aged 16 and 11 at the time). The food was spread out buffet style and we were asked to line up to help ourselves to a selection of food. My daughters were almost killed in the rush of little old ladies to get in first and looked totally bewildered at the lack of manners. My 11 yr old said, “Mum I guess you never stand between a bunch of nannas and a plate of cakes.” Having been brought up to be patient and wait their turn and respect their elders they were not overly impressed by what they saw.
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Yes, parenting plays a big part. Not just setting an example, but also setting limits and expectations. Children thrive on high expectations. Sadly, setting limits is looked down upon these days. Parents who let children set their agenda are seen as the more loving parent. I do not think this is a good thing. Neither is it good to set unreasonable expectations and then crush the child’s spirit. When expectations are not met, understanding, encouragement and forgiveness are needed so the child will try again.
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Since we’re talking about manners, I have a question…
I grew up in a household full of women, living with my mother, sister and grandmother, and during uni happened to only live with female housemates. My first experience of living with a male of the species was when I moved in with my partner about 2 years ago.
My question is this:
Why does anyone care about the toilet seat thing?
I grew up hearing endless jokes and complaints about the inexpressible irritation of men leaving the toilet seat up, and I just don’t understand it at all. I mean, he needs it up, I need it down – why isn’t it considered rude for me to leave it down, forcing him to lift it when he goes in?
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For me it’s not an etiquette but a hygiene thing, if the loo is in the bathroom with my toothbrush. If the toilet is in a room of its own, I couldn’t care less!
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Well aren’t the “I-gen” fortunate. They obviously have several preceding generations who hold manners and social niceties to be so important that they will model their manners by being patient with the young people who are still learning. Surely all these “manners nazis” will demonstrate patience and tolerance and teach their youngers how to use their manners. Of course being such evolved human beings the will remember that they too were once young and that they too sometimes made mistakes but were encouraged and eventually learnt how to behave in modern society.
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I think rudeness is increased the closer you live to the CBD.
While 8 months pregnant I had to travel by train from Emu Plains to Circular Quay. At Emu Plains a nice man in his 30s (I assume) helped me lug my suitcase into the carriage, and a school girl stood up to let me take her seat.
When I changed trains at Central I was pushed and shoved, and although I’d arrived at the platform first, people pushed me out of the way to get on the city circle train before me. Nobody helped me with my bag, even when the doors were shutting on it. Then I stood up (sure, it was only a couple of stops) the rest of the way while business people sat down and ignored me.
Young people can be rude, but city people are ruder.
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I have my fingers crossed that the manners I tried to teach stuck. I was never one for family gatherings so attendance at family outings or birthdays or such was never compulsory. However, if they did go it was expected they would join in and not spend all the time on the phone! As far as I can tell from the little I have seen they are well mannered and considerate on the whole. Whew.
One thing I do know that stuck is the RSVP thing. They do, and if they say yes, they always go to the first one they accepted regardless of getting a ‘better offer’ or just not feeling like it. That’s my pet peeve.
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I think there is rudeness in all generations. The rudeness I encounter – and there’s a lot! – is from a range of generations.
When I volunteered at the chronic illness peer support group at the children’s hospital, I mentored young people between 12-26. Perhaps they were an exception as they have so much to deal with, but honestly, their manners and behaviour restored my faith in young people.
I often ask for a seat on the train when I am sore. Most people are obliging. I usually ask those younger than me ( or men. Sometimes the men are very rude and begrudging about giving up their seat. But I’ve also found that if you don’t ask, people may not think to give up their seat. You have to help yourself too!
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I’m 16 and work in the fast food industry, and find that young people are much more polite to me than the older. Adults don’t feel the need to treat the teenagers serving them with respect. I lot of the time I notice kids copying their parents, like when ordering or whether they pick up the rubbish afterwards. Not all the blame should be on us young’uns!
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just a fun fact – If you look it up on google scholar, the research suggests that Gen Y’s are the most altruistic and perform more acts of prosocial behaviour (helping a stranger with no benefit to the self) than ANY other generation in OECD countries ( America, Australia, UK, Denmark, Finland etc).
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I certainly think a lot of this generational stereotyping is just subjective. A person below notes that when Gen Zs had a party recently, the next morning she had empty alcohol bottles over her front lawn. This is definitely not a phenomenon that is unique to Gen Z. I think that because they’re currently the ‘young’ generation, we forget how immature and impolite we sometimes could be when we ourselves were below 20 years of age and not concerned with much other than ourselves.
From a customer service background, rudeness is not uncommon coming from any person, and though i-Gen may currently seem like they’re the rudest, when the next generation comes along, I’m sure we’ll be saying the same exact thing, and the i-Gens will have matured to be our allies in the face of those ‘rude, younger people’.
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I was in London last year and completely enthralled by the Tube system, which is so much more efficient than CityRail! I gave my seat to an elderly woman who then tugged on my arm so that I bent down and showed me a handwritten quote about kindness that she said she’d copied down that morning and wanted to share with me because I “obviously understood” and most people wouldn’t have been so generous.
I was so surprised at her surprise and touched by her eagerness to share her new motto with me, she was a very sweet lady.
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I had a group of under 20′s leave there cars outside my house last night before attending a party. Whilst waiting for there friends they had a few drinks for an hour. An empty bottle of vodka and wine, several disgarded cans of spirits and beer were all over my lawn this morning.
I agree that rudeness can be across the generations. However, when the under 20′s do things like this it is no surprise why they get a bad rap when it comes to manners.
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I don’t think it’s generation as much as era. So many people exist in little inconsiderate bubbles.
I don’t catch public transport much but I do remember standing on a bus once and a man had his 3 year old taking up a seat when she clearly could have been on his lap so someone elderly could sit. It’s just rudeness, not his age.
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Having worked in customer service (sales) for over 5 years, I’ve dealt with my fair share of rude people. I have to say I’ve never noticed it being specific to any one age group; I’ve had many, many MANY wonderful customers from all age groups, and few particularly rude customers have been so worthy of my concern that they’ve etched themselves into my memory.
That said, those few memories I have had of incredibly rude customers have all been women aged (from visual estimation) from their late 30s to late 50s…so maybe it’s not so much that that age group is more likely to be rude, just that if they are rude, they’re more likely to be memorably rude. But they have more frequently been memorably lovely.
At any rate, I’m hoping that in the next 3 weeks I’ll be out of customer service for good…
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We had 4 people in the 16-20 age group in our house on Christmas day. And they will only do what their parents let them get away with. One 16yo was from one side of our family and she had to leave her phone at home. No discussion, end of story. She coped and even enjoyed laughing with her family on Christmas day! The other 3 are siblings from another side of our family and all 3 spent most of the day, including during Christmas lunch with their faces buried in their iphone screens, texting each other, updating facebook, tweeting…..and their parents, who I love, but who are slack arse parents, did absolutely nothing and I doubt they even thought it was rude, if they noticed at all.
So while we rant on about how rude certain generations of people are its only because they have likely never been taught any manners or respect for others to start with and know nothing else. And that goes for older people being rude as well. Often its just a case of nobody having the guts to confront them and tell them they are being rude. They will only get away with it if they are allowed to.
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I love it – leaving the phone at home. It is locked in, I will be definitely doing this to my kids on those special family gatherings and restaurant nights. Great tip.
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I think expectations get higher as the generations increase. More technology, food, transport, etc is available, therefore we want more and we want it now. No excuse, but it may explain it.
Also, not all elderly people are polite. In fact, there are a lot of elderly people who are downright rude.
Sadly, I think the attitude ‘being nice doesn’t get you anywhere’ is becoming increasingly common and people think being rude is the only way to get what you want.
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I’m sorry, but the elderly win hands down. Maybe it’s their baby boomer ‘entitlement lifetrap’… the world owes them everything… and has given them everything. I see their rudeness in every day life, the way they throw their groceries at the check-out people, grunt, not make eye contact, push in, because they’re entitled, because they’re elderly. Every day, I see their rudeness. The elderly are rude.
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My opinion on this matter is a bit dark and depressing so I tend not to express I very regularly. I don’t know if it’s new or generational or what, but:
- People will be rude if they think they can get away with it.
- being nice is generally considered a sign of weakness.
- old people can be just as rude as young people.
- young people can be just as polite and considerate as old people.
- a lot of men hate women
- a lot of women express their insecurities by tearing other women down
On the bright side, I believe 100% that:
- Pregnant women ALWAYS deserve your seat on the train or bus.
- The elderly do as well.
- people who are clearly injured or on crutches most definitely deserve a seat.
- people deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt. You should never assume someone is as nice as you, nor should you assume that they are as nasty. Take them as they come.
- EVERY person is deserving of your respect, they don’t have to earn it. they deserve it purely because they are a fellow human being.
- a blonde woman isn’t necessarily dumb.
- a red headed man is not necessarily unattractive (i.e. some of the most fascinating and attractive men I’ve met are redheads)
- we women should always be willing to help a sista out (and the same applies for men with men!)
I guess it’s all a matter of being aware of the limitations of human nature while still being open to it’s opportunities!
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can I just add maybe, that as many women hate men as men hate women. You just have to hang around here a while to see that. thanks.
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I don’t think there’s much generational difference to be honest. I work in customer service in both of my jobs, and am a student, and it’s regularly rather elderly people who I find act the most rudely towards me and other staff. The under-20s can be a difficult bunch too, I’ve found that at uni where I’m a mature age (27) student, but they are also generally more socially aware, environmentally concerned and generous with their money in terms of donations than older generations.
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On London’s tube, the women wear a sticker/badge to indicate pregnancy…..
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wouldnt their stomach be a give away without any badge being necessary?
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Not necessarily…that’s why it’s a big no-no to ask someone if they’re pregnant/congratulate them on their pregnancy if they haven’t outright told you they’re pregnant. Some people wrongly assume a pregnancy, which is why many people don’t stand for pregnant women because they aren’t 100% sure they’re pregnant and don’t want to offend them.
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Absolutely! Mistaking someone with a chubby stomach for being pregnant is just the same as telling someone how big their bum is.
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When I was heavily pregnant in the height of summer I was waiting at a very crowded bus stop in the city, the waiting bench was full but thankfully all but one person got up as their bus had arrived, I went to take a seat as my bus was about 20 mins away but as I approached the bench that one remaining person lay down across it!!! I was shocked! Now I never sit on buses, trains, benches, what’s the big deal about standing for half an hour? Why is everyone so lazy? Especially those sitting at a desk all day…it’s better for you to stand, burns more calories and gets the blood flowing. So just stand if you can!
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My 1/2 brother just turned 18. I rocked up to the “early family allowed” part of his party and he was out the front. Their house has stairs made of really uneven sandstone leading down to the front door. He totally ignored me to greet his friend while I stumbled down the stairs with my double stroller and two babies! RUDE!!!
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I think rudeness is not exclusive to any particular age bracket, it’s everywhere. Perhaps Oscar Wilde was onto something when he said “youth is wasted on the young”…..
I’ve been doing a bit of driving lately and I have to say, the P platers out there….Hooley Dooley!! Apart from nearly taking out Baby By’s pram at a traffic light (yes the little man was still flashing), I’ve had red light’s and stop signs run (optional if you are under twenty) and today passing on the left. And let’s not forget the poor love going to the Gold Coast a few days ago who’s hair just wasn’t right. In all the adjustments required she veered into the other lane several times, tale gated and had her hands off the wheel.
Mr By and I have a working theory on why so many young pups on the road drive so badly and seem so angry. When I got my car and license, I was just ecstatic to be on the road and used to pull over to let those that wanted to speed past. But, back to the theory…
It’s big, regular nights on the E’s. We read some research on the drug and how it increases depression and aggression in the longer term. They’ve had some poor bloody primates on it every weekend for 5 years and selectively review one brain per year. It’s scary stuff.
I was always taught that subsidised passengers (ie students and kids) stood up for the full fare paying).
As for being pregnant and not getting a seat – I’ve not had that problem recently, although noticed school girls were quite good at studiously ignoring me. The drivers were especially lovely when I caught public transport to routine hospital visits wishing me luck!
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I find it a bit of a stretch to associate young drivers with drug taking. I don’t believe that’s an entirely fair statement to make.
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Interesting article, particularly the last few paragraphs. I think it’s very true that “each new brood of people reinterpret what we consider manners law”, but this also happens within earlier generations.
I’m a gen-X female and I’ve never understood that some women will demand equal rights, but still expect for the door to be held open for them. I also don’t get why women think it’s their right to have the toilet seat put down after a man uses it – controversial I know, but who are we to insist that down is the right way and what stops us from putting it there anyway?
I’ll also happily stand on for a pregnant or elderly person when I am on public transport, but sometimes I am engrossed in my own little world and don’t notice – so just ask!
It’s really just about treating people decently and with respect, irrespective of generation, age, gender. Be empathetic, think about what’s going on around you but also don’t be afraid to make reasonable requests. It works both ways.
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I found this aritcle very interesting. It made me think about my own manners and habits. I would and do give up my seat for ANYONE who looks like they need it more than me but I hate the assumption that one is rude because they don’t. There are times where I consider it perfectly acceptable not to give up my seat, regardless of the incapacitated person before me.
The other day I was on a train, I had had a hell of a day, I had walked to and fro, I had hurt myself, I had bustled through a gazillion shops to find my housemate the exact species of brocoli she wanted (or something like that) and after sitting peacefully on the train for all of five minutes, a pregnant women boards and sends all of those around her a scathing scarl for not giving up our seats. Now excuse me, but she obviously wasn’t very advanced and having what seemed to be a fresh trowel of make up on, hadn’t had the same day as me. There was no way I was going to give up my seat for that, bump or not.
And don’t get me started on the large amount of extremely rude senior citizens who become quite pious over this topic. You want me to give up my seat but you don’t find it necessary to cover your mouth when your coughing? Rude!
Manners, have to go both ways.
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I don’t see what her make up has to do with anything. Do people have to look rough for you to stand up for them?
I’m also a bit confused about the whole elderly/coughing business but I’m prepared to live in confusion.
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So because she applied lippy she hadn’t had a hard day? I’m sorry, but that is absurd.
It isn’t about who has had the ‘hardest’ day, giving up your seat for a pregnant person is because their centre of gravity is different and if the bus/train jolts they can fall which may result in more damage than a non-pregnant person.
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Oh come on. Shelley was tired after looking for her broccoli. She could tell by looking at the woman that she was not very far advanced so didn’t need the seat as much as the bare faced hunter gatherer.
Well done, Shelley. You let that pregnant woman know that she’s not special for getting pregnant. You make her stand. She had make up on and you didn’t. You could tell by her lipstick that she wasn’t tired, her legs weren’t heavy and that little baby wasn’t pressing on her bladder, or pushing her lungs up, making breathing just that little bit harder.
You go, girl. You keep that seat. You needed somewhere to rest with your vegetables.
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It’s lucky pregnant women don’t have shitty days too, isn’t it? Also great to know that it’s cool to make a pregnant woman stand, her and the baby will be just fine if there’s jostling or the carriage/bus jolts and she goes flying. Cause you have awesome balance when you’re pregnant.
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Do you tell all anonymous posters to get names or just the rude and narky ones?
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I don’t think it’s necessarily a question of whether someone is being rude and narky, it’s just more when they’re being argumentative. I usually don’t care if someone is anonymous, but some threads get confusing when 3 different people with the name ‘anonymous’ post…it becomes hard to follow who is saying what, who is being sarcastic or not (e.g., are you a different anonymous who is disagreeing with the original anonymous, or are you the original anonymous being sarcastic?) etc.
I find it’s easier to follow the flow of conversation when people elect a name.
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I don’t think comment replies are working…I tried to reply to anonymous twice and ended up a couple posts up on my lonesome, and I’ve just seen a whole lot of comments below that seem to be in reply to/about the same topic…
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I thought that was quite funny…
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I thought this comment was quite deserved actually. Besides, do you really think you are actually any less anonymous, ‘Stinkbomb’?
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Yes I do considering I use the same handle across the internet
While I don’t think Shelley was right to “judge a book by it’s cover” I do think that sometimes, pregnant women are just as quick to judge those who stay seated and not render their seat free for them. As a previous commentator relayed before, a man gave up his seat for her and he really was in no state to do so but she didn’t know that until he had already stood up and walked away.
No one, regardless of what condition they find themselves in, should be so quick to judge someone else, pregnant or not.
You think it was deserved because you disagree with what Shelley originally said but is the right answer to a comment you disagree with, to be narky, sarcastic and rude? No, it’s to disagree, state why you disagree but to do so respectfully and politely, it’s not difficult and yet so many on this forum struggle with it.
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I was sick as hell when pregnant wih my daughter, but had to work anyway, shift work as a hotel manager. Not ideal. It was a daily ordeal to get the bus from Castle Hill to the city, nauseated, trying not to throw up (once I did) all the while swinging from a post, trying not to fall over in my front-heavy state. I was NEVER offered a seat, and believe me everyone knew I was pregnant.
We all have bad days, but seriously, to not offer a heavily pregnant woman a seat on an hour long trip? Jerks!
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“Shelley was tired after looking for her broccoli”
This is the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Took me by surprise
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Funniest thing I’ve read all day!!!
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“There are times where I consider it perfectly acceptable not to give up my seat, regardless of the incapacitated person before me”
Congratulations, you have just made possibly the most self centred comment I have read on this site. You’d just better hope the next pregnant woman you make stand on account of your hard day looking for broccoli doesn’t fall over and have miscarriage. Or that the next senior citizen who doesn’t deserve to sit down on account of rudely coughing doesn’t fall and break a hip.
You are right, manners should go both ways. It’s a shame you aren’t holding up your end of the bargain.
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I am 32 years old and I have found 99% of the time the people who have been rude or inconsiderate to me are always a lot older. When I have had people push in front of me in lines at shops etc they have always been older, never had a younger person do that to me. I am sure this rudest generation thing was probably said about my generation when I was a teenager as well…so is it said to every generation?
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You are just a smidgen older than me (I shall be 31 on the 23rd of this month)… and I am pretty sure our generation were called lazy layabouts and such. My stepdad used to tell me all the time how we were dis-respectful and had no work ethic, and were lazy and had no manners, and it was all because of the simpsons and those damn rock bands we like so much and the drugs and so on and so forth.
But then, he also told me that I read too much, and no-one wants a girl who is smart… so I just dismissed him =D
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Funny, I am the same age as you and my father said a similar thing about smart girls. In fact he was pretty vicious about girls in general.
Says a lot about their generation, perhaps????
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No, it doesnt say anything about their generation. it just says something about the individuals. I am 56 and extremely polite. i will step sideways when someone is coming towards me, open doors for people in wheelchairs, crutches, pregnant or elderly and generally give someone a hand if i can. it doesnt cost me anything and i feel good about it.
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Hi Julie – I didn’t mean that my parents’ generation are generally rude, I was commenting more on some outdated ideas on women and what women are capable of – my dad’s a bit of a dinosaur in this regard but I guess it’s not his fault if he grew up at a certain time and has a closed mind!
I am sure you are very nice and good on you for feeling good about being a good person. I try to do the same.
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Ew, you’re quite gross and rude as well. I’d move away in disgust if I were the young person on the bus.
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I am youngish enough, and am usually a fairly patient and polite person. Recently I went through a period of disabling chronic pain. My body was shutting down on me. My state of mind being in such pain went from being an amicable person to downright b****y and tempermental.
I haven’t yet experienced living in an aged body, but if my experience was a fortaste, I think I have some understanding of why older people can get a bit cranky.
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I don’t want to get into the generational debate, but this has reminded me of a lovely thing that once happened to me. I was once on a crowded train at peak hour with my mother and sister. It was a long train ride and the three of us were all standing. I was about five, it was the end of a very long day, and I was exhausted and sad and cranky. One lovely gentleman, who seemed old to me back then, but was probably only in his 40s or 50s, gave me his seat. He was able bodied and saw that a child falling asleep needed it more than him. I’m now 20, and always give up my seats for people who need them. Not all of us are that bad.
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Awww that’s a nice story.
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Yet another study showing how much we all hate the generations younger than us. Full of generalisations and not a lot of content. Yawn.
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“Can any one group be singled out?”
… Is this really how you wanted to word this?
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I have to say, generalisations like this are utter rubbish.
I’m Gen Y and I say please, thank you and excuse me; greet people in lifts; let people with one or two items go before me in the supermarket queue and stand on public transport if there is someone who seems to need a seat more than I do. I did the same when I was 16.
It amazes me that everyone seems so quick to engage in debates about the different generations, yet if this was a debate about a certain race or gender all behaving in one way we would be (rightly) offended.
Afterall, how can a blog publish a piece outraged over ‘women aren’t funny’ generalisations on the same day it publishes a piece claiming that ‘all young people are rude’?
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Manners are very subjective. Sure, young people might not give up their seats on public transport as much as they used to, but I’m sure that all young people who have worked as waiters, salespeople, or in other customer service roles would agree that it is the always people from older generations that are the customers who treat the workers with utter disrespect.
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I love the ‘Baby on Board’ badges that women in London have started wearing. It means people can’t hide behind the ‘I didn’t want to offend her’ excuse anymore.
One incident that springs to mind is when I was riding the bus in Sydney and a man in a wheelchair lost his shit at an elderly woman because she didn’t (couldn’t) get out of the way in time. He started screaming at her and hitting her with his umbrella.
Talk about a moral dilemma. I wanted to help the lady, but I was always taught to NEVER touch a persons wheelchair. Thankfully the bus driver found somewhere to pull over.
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See “Baby on Board” badges would absolutely shit me as self-indulgent. I will happily stand for a heavily pregnant lady or one who is clearly struggling, but ably walking around with a little bump (or none) and a badge would actually make me less inclined to stand.
That said, the badge would help those awkward situations where you are just not sure.
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I was very faint early in my pregnancy and couldn’t stand up for more than 20 minutes without passing out. Although I had no bump, I needed to sit quite regularly! The badge (although naff and rather embarrassing) could have helped me back then
. Once I had a bump I was fine, oddly enough, to stand for longer.
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If you had said to me “excuse me, would you mind if I took a seat. I’m feeling really faint” there would be no issue. Just be genuine and ask.
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I believe manners are a learnt behavior, not a generational trend. I have witnessed older people be rude just as many times as young people. Some time ago, when my then 19 yr old sister was pregnant with my nephew, an older woman decided to unleash on my sister for no good reason in the middle of a clothing store about young girls getting pregnant and how inappropriate it was. Ahm, were those comments asked for, appreciated or constructive? Did women of her generation not get pregnant before they were 19? Some people clearly never learn what manners are and how to use them, no matter what generation they come from.
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I totally agree, Manners is not something a child of any generation will inherently possess, they are shaped & learnt by the people that surround the child… perhaps the problem isn’t the selfishness of generation i, but the pandering, they must have everything they could ever want, more is better, excess is best, no manners no consequence society we are raising children in… as a parent of three generation i’ers myself I’d say it is a daily consideration; how do I foster decent little humans amidst the tide of selfishness & unconscious entitlement they swim in?
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hear hear – well said.
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What I find interesting with young people in particular is that simple things like a decision of whether or not to give your seat up is nothing more than a balancing act between their own entitlements and obligations in the name of the rules of courtesy rather than for what it should actually be. AN ACT OF KINDNESS. I don’t like to pigeon hole particular generations, but it does seem to be nearly all people in an older generation that consider simple behaviours to be something that they feel good about doing instead of because they have to.
When I give someone my seat, or help an older person carry a bag, or strike up a conversation and ask how their day was or tell them they look lovely, or smile, or pick up something for someone when they drop something… I do it because I feel good. Because a small act can make someones awful day that little bit better and because a small act of kindness or helpfulness can and does make MY day that bit better. I think with technology and chaotic lifestyles people get lost in the hussle and bussle sometimes which is sad because life just FEELS better when you stop living in a bubble and realise how special it is to be selfless sometimes. When you help someone it is character defining. The world stops being about you (which is both mentally exhausting and unhealthy) – instead it is about something bigger. It is about having a purpose, even if just for a minute. It’s the thing I love most about working with kids – the world stops being all about me while I’m with them. And that’s exactly the way life should be. Humanity should be kind… and that happens to start with individuals acting kindly toward other human beings, even if it is as simple as offering your seat to someone on a bus.
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I love this paragraph. It’s so true. But I have to disagree there Lucinda, I bet there are people in your generation, as well as mine, (Gen Y) who do it because they ‘have to’, as well as people like us who do it because it’s a genuinely kind thing to do
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I’m borderline Gen X/Y, but you are right Georgie, there will always be different minded people across different generations. It does often just feel like people under 25 think differently though.
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I have to say I have been impressed with manners from all sorts of people when I was pregnant or carrying luggage. always lots of nice people about.
The only rude experience I have had is will young staff on public transport. My kids were very close I. Age at one time I traveled with two small kids who couldn’t walk. Jet star took my pram off me and I had to walk alone to the gate with two kids and I had 2 hours to wait with a three week old and 15 month old.
Lots of strangers helped me and Virgin staff and I will always remember how rude Jet star was and how nice many people are. a stranger held my baby on the plane For me as the staff refused to even help me on.
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Living in London for the past few years I am constatly amazed that kids – im talking from 2-16 are treated as ‘priority’ on transport. In Melbourne growing up as a school kids you were expected to give up your seat to an older people and that is why there was usually clusters of school kids in the doorways on trains/trams – we didn’t tend to use the seating. Over here, I have lost count of the times I have seen professional women offer their seats up to school kids.
Not once have I ever seen a person under 20 offer up their seat to an older person and im on the tube at least twice a day. But then I think the sense of entitlement here in the youger generation is out of control.
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some of this might be a safety concern though too, a 2 year old shouldn’t be standing up on moving transport with no seatbelts whereas a 16 year old can hold on around corners and balance themselves.
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2 year olds, fine. And they should sit on their parents lap. But anyone 8 and above should probably stand.
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When I was pregnant with my first I had horrendous morning sickness (lasted 6 months then the sickness went away but the vomiting continued). Anyway I used to catch the bus to and from work and was incredibly dizzy and shakey etc every single ride. I used to keep a spew bag in my handbag but fortunately never actually spewed on the bus, but 4 out of 5 days I would go sit on the toilet floor at work for the first 30mins of the day losing my breakfast)… anyway given it was early in my pregnancy I didn’t look obviously pregnant so no one would even think to offer their seet. I used to go to the priority seating (which was almost always filled with young professionals) and just simply ask for the seat each day. One day I asked for the seat and the healthy looking well dressed man got up for me… as I was sitting there watching all the people in the crowded aisle I noticed that he was all wobbly and seemed to have tremors. I didn’t know what to do, plus he was now too far away from me for me to get his attention. Oh, I still cringe about it now, I booted a disabled person out of the disabled seat….. I think there should be some special card or something that passengers with priority seats carry with them or wear to avoid situations like that. This happened almost 4 years ago and I still feel awful about it!
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Over the last few weeks I have been trying to teach my two boys (5yrs and 3yrs) about manners when we are out, for example opening door for ladies, letting laddies go first etc. We got to the lift and the eldest stood by and let a lady get on first, he then went to get on. I tapped him on the shoulder and quietly pointed out that the older gentleman should go first. My eldest rolled his eyes and said”but he is man you said girls” I then explained in the lift that we have to be nice to older people too. So then eldest says in a huffy voice “so we have to be nice to girls and old people”. The older man then gave me a dagger look when he got off the lift as I don’t think he thought he was that old… so you can’t win you can only try.
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this concept of kids giving up position to able bodied adults is actually a little new to me. From my cultural background it is expected that the able bodied adults would give way to the child who does not have as much stamina or balance. And before you comment on racial differences, I’ve lived in Australia for 34 years (since I was 1.5 years old) and I’ve never really seen or had it explained to me that children were to give way to adults unless the adult in question was actually elderly.
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I don’t think small children should have to stand for an adult, because as you say, they can’t balance standing up. I think it’s more high school children. It would be ridiculous to expect little ones to stand up for an able bodied person.
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I don’t know what kids get on their bus and train passes now, but I vividly remember the rules on the back of ours when I was at school. There were no questions or arguments about us being expected to give up our seats for an adult on the bus. We could have our passes confiscated for not doing that.
I had to ask kids on the bus when I was very obviously pregnant to move. They just went “Oh but I’m only going to the stop up there around the corner”. Good, get up and get ready to get off and give the pregnant chick with all the shopping your seat, then!
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I was not saying that my children were giving up their seats I was talking about a lift, and waiting your turn. I was bought up to let older people go first out of respect. the man was elderly, and I would never question someones background.
I would not expect my children to give up there seats, but I do think you have to start with ideas of respect early or children do grow up to be rude.I think you missed my point.
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Good on you Happymumof3.
This is where it all begins. You have the right idea.
You are bringing up worthwhile young adults no matter what generation they will belong to. Pity more parents did not take the time and energy to teach their children simple old fashioned manners. Keep up the good work!
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That’s the problem with public transport, the public
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My thoughts exactly!
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I agree that sometimes you just don’t want to offend people by offering them a set. Especially middle aged women (women in their 50s 60s) can get quite huffy if you offer them a seat. It is sometimes really hard to tell if someone is pregnant or overweight, and you don’t want to stare as you try and figure it out!
Finally I have been completely obsorbed in a book, text convo or just daydreaming and not noticed who is on the bus, but if you just say would you mind if I sat of course I will stand.
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It seems a little obvious to me but if you need a seat on the bus (or need someone to move over), why don’t you just ask? Polite words and eye contact usually gets results. I think there are a lot of people who would be too afraid of causing offence to offer their seat to a pregnant lady just in case she wasn’t pregnant, or offering a seat to an elderly person who didn’t perceive of themselves as infirm.
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I have never had a problem with people offering me a seat on public transport when I’ve been pregnant, but my pregnancies have always been very obvious, as I start showing early and don’t carry much extra weight on me other than my pregnant belly. These days, with so many overweight people walking around, it can be genuinely difficult to tell whether someone’s pregnant or just carrying extra weight around their midriff, and to be honest, I think this is half the reason a lot of women aren’t offered a seat on public transport (I just Googled the journalist mentioned in the article and she looks quite overweight herself). I saw a similar debate on the SMH website a while back, and I remember one man made a comment that he wouldn’t offer a woman a seat unless she looked like she was about to pop. Maybe not very PC, but his reasoning was ‘Better to make a pregnant woman stand than make a fat woman cry’…
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Just on the public transport thing…
You know how (well in Melbourne anyway) quite often there are two rows of two or three seats? For some reason if there is a spare seat in the middle or by the window the person on the aisle will not move over. Instead they make you climb over their legs and bags to get to the seat. It would be so much easier if they just moved over! This happens about 90% of the time. Grrr
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100% its the worst!
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This is a tricky one, to me… ideally, the person getting off first should be on the aisle, so the climbing over stuff doesn’t happen again on the exit. But how are you going to know, without essentially asking where the person lives / works? There are privacy implications, and you don’t want to sound like a stalker.
Suppose you settle that one… e.g. “Best you go in, I’m getting off in two stops.” (Or stand, to let them past you.) Now, the person who just got off their seat is standing. What if some opportunistic idiot, who has no better reason for wanting to sit than ‘but I need a lap to use a laptop to watch that streaming movie’ (for example), dives in and takes the seat that belonged to the considerate person who stood up? How is that fair? And yet, it does happen. Enough to make people re-think whether they’ll shift to their feet for a few seconds next time…
But yes, I have observed this, being 20 weeks pregnant (i.e. the not giving up a seat / avoiding eye contact / absorbed in phone/ereader). Just not every day, as I’m a stay-at-home mum, able to generally get away with plain avoiding peak-hour travel. (Who wants me to add my (generally quite tired and ‘over it) Miss 2 to *that* hectic, exhausting, stressful mess? Anyone? Didn’t think so! Losing situation for all concerned!)
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Yes what is with that?? In sydney everybody moves over. I think that Melb having smaller population is still struggling with the concept of crowded public transport. Adapt. Adapt!
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I’ve been in Melbourne for a year and have to agree. The set up the trains can’t accommodate the number of commuters, and what is with no allocated gate at flinders street for people heading out of the city during peak hour to get in to the station.
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Wow, this is one post that totally invited parent bashing, am I right.??? Not all of us young parents are raising our children to be ferals (actually, when mine decides to act up, i pointedly say to her – if i wanted you to be a feral, i would have raised you that way).
I think there is a lot of entitlement as well. I always give my seat up to pregnant people, disabled people and the elderly. My daughter does the same. that said, when I was knocked up I saw no reason for people to give me their seat. I was just pregnant for jeebuses sake, I hadnt lost a leg. I was generally quite happy standing – i like to stand – but people made such a FUSS insisting i sit because i was somehow incapacitated i often sat just to shut people up. It is important that they offered though, and I always appreciated that! (just wish they hadnt gone on and on and on making me feel invalid just because i had a kid in me).
I often get to a point though when i think why do i freaking bother with manners because PEOPLE are so freaking rude. not just any one generation, but people. I always make my appreciation known when people are awesome, because I feel like it encourages good manners (and I would love it if people did it to me!!!)
that said – my one issue with younger people – usually under 20 – is the playing of music on phones on loud speaker. Seriously. IT SOUNDS LIKE CRAP. I dont want to put up with your tinny sounding Rhianna. ugh.
(i hate saying young people! im only 10 days shy of 31!!)
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Rudeness comes from all generations. I was once seated several rows from the front of a bus when an elderly gentlemen boarded (with groceries and cane). No one in the priority section got up so I got up from my seat at the same time as the bus driver got up from his and started yelling at the passengers in priority to move, the gentleman gave me a thankful smile which I always remember. Thankfully I don’t take public transport anymore as there are many occasions in which I find I want to yell at passengers myself. It astounds me that common courtesies seem to have disappeared, when I buy lunch I always say please and thank you and it amazes me when I am in a queue that I rarely hear please. I am proud to say that my 8 year old nephew always says please and thank you, my sister was told by his teacher that he is the most polite child in the class. Manners are something we have all tried to instill in him from a young age, it doesn’t cost anything….
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I’m 30 so technically in the 2nd worst category.
I do agree with this article, though don’t think I am 100% in it.
On public transport I always like to stand, I don’t like that awkward call you have to make about when to offer someone elderly a seat, how elderly is it that it is polite to offer them a seat or on the flip side they are too young and it is insulting!?!?!
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I nearly made a lady cry once, I offered her my seat and she was like ‘…I’m only 48′
AWKWARD.
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I love it when you stand for a pregnant woman or elderly person and another passenger – usually in front of you – smiles at you. It always makes me want to tell them to fuck off.
People on the morning bus are the worst for discourteous behaviour. Seat hogging, pretending they can’t see the elderly or those carrying children. And what’s with able bodied people leaping straight into that single front seat on the bus? Walk to the back, buddy, that seat is not for you.
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