There has been a lot of chatter about the state of child care in Australia recently. How much it costs, how much childcare workers are getting paid, should nannies be a tax deduction, how much the rebates help … how do we keep it affordable. The list goes on. And on.
Well, the Australian Government knows who to ask and that’s Mamamia readers.
We’ve run news updates, posts and watched comment threads unfold as you discuss child care options and what works – and doesn’t work – for your family. Many Mamamia readers work in the industry and know firsthand what it’s like.
The Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Child Care Minister Kate Ellis came to Mamamia HQ last week to have that same conversation with you, answering your questions and replying to your comments live right here.
Ms Gillard told journalists
“I want to make sure that when we’re giving families extra support that that is making a difference to child care affordability for them,” she said.
The PM is in Sydney for a child care summit, talking directly to child care workers and unions to nail down policy details.
Ms Gillard said Labor had tripled the investment in childcare – to more than $22 billion – and had increased the child care tax rebate from 30 per cent to 50 per cent.
Now, she’s not looking for Dorothy Dixers or easy questions to answer. It’s up to you to ask the questions you need answered (politely, of course)! Tell the PM or Kate Ellis what it’s like for you. How could you be helped?
The PM was online last week however Kate Ellis will be coming back to answer your questions over the next few days.
So make sure you come back to get involved!
Fire away: what is child care like for you at the moment? How could you be helped? What isn’t working? What’s it like working in the industry? Do you have anything to do with the industry and want to share your thoughts?
NB: Remember, your experience counts. If you have something to say about balancing child care and work, let us know. But our usual comment rules apply. Stick to the topic. Keep your comments civil and polite. We can disagree as much as we like, but rude comments will be removed.
Comments
724 Comments so far
Dear Prime Minister
Can you reassure us about not means testing the CCB please? I have twins in day care and two kids in after school care so I can work as the family breadwinner. Take the CCB away and it will cripple us. My childcare bill would go from 350 to 700 dollars a week. That’s all our food and nappies. We don’t get any other assistance from the Government nor are we asking for any.
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Do you mean the Child Care Tax Rebate? The Child Care Benefit is already means tested.
I would be devastated if the CCTR was means tested. I have three children in approved care (child care and after school care) and my child care bill is half of my fortnightly take home pay.
I would be VERY upset if my ability to work was compromised by even higher child care bills based on my ‘family’ income – i.e my husband’s wage. If the CCTR was means tested, I would have to very carefully consider if working was financially benefiting my family.
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I would too… as would most working mothers, as generally, not all the time yes, but generally, our wages really don’t cover much more than the childcare as it is…
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If your wage is that small it’s unlikely you’d be impacted by means testing of the CCR, however someone earning $1m a year is also entitled to $7500 a year, that’s madness
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Daniel, mean tested is calculated on ‘family’ income, not my income alone. I am not an especially high income earner, and without CCTR, my income would almost totally be eaten up by childcare costs, making it unviable for me to work. Not means testing the CCTR is a productivity measure – I pay more in tax than I receive in rebates. Why should my ability to work, to earn super, to further my skills and my future employment prospects be predicated on my husband’s wage? What if he leaves me, or is hit by a bus, or is injured at work, or any one of the million things that could go wrong which would mean that I would need to support my children on my own?
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Hello Prime Minister
I’m a 29 year old who ticked all those boxes we’re told we should – got my degree and a post-grad too, working in a great industry, traveled in my (extremely rare) spare time. I earn money that would be considered fantastic – $90k per year – and my partner is a teacher. We own a very modest home, and yet we find ourselves in a position where we would love to have a baby, but can’t afford to on one income.
Whilst 18 weeks paid leave is helpful, my partner’s job only just covers the mortgage, so I would have no choice but to go straight back to work and then put my child into childcare – if I could get him/her in.
People so often say that people on my income shouldn’t be helped, but this is what the housing market has done – it has forced us to choose work over family.
Here’s the thing… even if we sold our house, rent is nearly as much as a mortgage.
I’d love to hear any suggestions you might have?
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In same situation but incomes in reverse , and we could not survive on or income either but sending a child to day care would cost whT I earn. Catch 22
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Hi. In the same situation but lack of childcare facilities in Eastern Sydney means prices for under two year olds start at well over $100 per day. This is unmanageable.
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you COULD afford it, but you don’t WANT too. Your partner could stay home, or you could give up some luxuries, i highly doubt your mortgage is taking away all of your salary per annum…
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Hi J – you’re so right. Catch 22…
Hi Jem – thanks for your note.
Yes, I could have a very-wanted child, however what I don’t want is to have this baby I crave, and then go straight back to full-time work after 18 weeks. Sadly yes, my salary does all go onto the mortgage, and there’s no luxuries on my partner’s teaching salary.
I guess also my point revolves around this – why do I have to choose between having no baby, or a part-time baby and full-time job?
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Ultimately there never is a ‘right’ time. With my second I (to my eternal secret shame) thought of not continuing with this surprise as I thought we just couldn’t afford it. But we mucked thru. We had supportive bosses – more than money, those bosses and workplaces have been the key. Particularly when we live interstate from all family. In 2008 my child care costs were nigher than mortgage – it was very very stressful at times but would I have it any other way? No way
children upend your life in all sorts of ways – I’m a risk taker and they are definitely one of life’s great risks.
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Stevie G, you are so right when you write it’s the supportive bosses and workplaces that make a difference.
I’m in a GM role that is part-time, 0930-1330 around the school run. In holidays, I change my hours and work 2 full days and a half from home so my kids need only be farmed out to friends or attend vacation care for 2 days.
This is possible because my employer RedBalloon is an award-winning Great Place To Work, and actively explores how mums like me can contribute successfully.
My husband is an early childhood teacher, so no school holidays, and a modest salary. I work not only to pay the bills, but also to show my son and daughter that there is more to their mother than being a mother. That we all have roles and contributions to make to society – both at home and at work. Would I love to just be a mum? Sure, there are days when I’m envious of the full time mums who get to do regular class reading or canteen – but I’m honest enough about my own skills to know that I’m a better mother because I have the opportunity to work and challenge myself.
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I totally understand this catch-22. I’m on 80k per year and hubbie quit his job at bunnings to become stay at home dad. Child care would cost nearly the same as his wages – we worked out that having our one-year-old in child care for nine hours a day, five days a week, we’d be $50 better off. So hubbie is now studying a degree and meantime we’ve had to move in with my mum because we couldn’t afford the rent in Sydney. We still barely get by. I know parents for thousands of years have found it tough, but where’s the good for our society if my husband can’t afford to work and we – hard-working, socially responsible, middle class people – can’t afford a roof over our heads?
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Move to a cheaper suburb and get your husband to stay home with the children.
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I reckon affordability has been vastly improved in the eight year since I first needed to access child care. The CCB rebate being paid direct to providers made a huge difference to us. What hasn’t improved is access and for me, quality. The differences between centres can be so huge. My most recent experience staff turnover was high. Bad signs. I’ve had positive experiences with NFP, profit and FDC but it simply not consistent. Similar to aged care – cradle to grave reform required. Pay workers more would help.
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Hi there, I feel for the position you are in, but we always have choices. When we decided to try for a baby, we totally cut back on spending and saved like mad, depositing as much as we could into our mortgage offset account. The money we were able to save, we used to pay our mortgage while I was on maternity leave. We are not great at saving ordinarily, but it was important to me to stay at home for as long as I could, so we just made it work (I’m sure not spending money on wine must have helped too!). Good luck and don’t be discouraged!
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Julia
There’s a lot of work still to be done.
There’s a significant shortage of childcare places, especially for 0-2 year olds in inner Sydney. We need federal government funding for new centres to be built and existing centres to expand.
Working mums cant go back to work if they cant find childcare. I wrote to your Minister for Women who does not acknowledge this as her problem and handballed the issue to the Child Care minister.
I wrote to Kate Ellis and the response was that the Federal Govt funds new places. However My Council has confirmed that it receives no federal funding to meet childcare demand. Kate Ellis’ response to the shortage issue was to raise the matter with State and local government but there was no advice on what state and local governments are expected to do?
In addition the Federal Government mychild.gov.au website has inaccurate information on childcare vacancies.
In addition, no government department actually collects information on how severe the gap is between supply and demand for childcare places.
The CCB only helps families who can find child care places. It doesn’t help families who can’t.
Please make sure that any policies that increase demand or affordability for childcare are met with policies to increase the supply of places so that parents can actually benefit.
An inquiry into the supply gaps across Australia and sustainable options to address them are critical to meet the needs of working families and enable women to return to the workforce. Please fund this important work and subsidise providers to establish more centres and expand in suburbs where there are shortages.
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My 4 year old attends a wonderful day care facility 3 days a week. The child care benefit and rebate have made childcare very affordable for us and made it possible for me to return to work. The only thing I would say is that the carers who do an amazing job looking after my daughter, should have a much higher pay rate. I think it’s time for this profession to receive the pay and recognition they deserve.
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I appreciate the conversation about child care affordability, but for me (like so many families) the issue is child care availability. I have no problem paying for quality child care & helping to ensure that child care workers get a fair wage, but the battle to actually get a child under the age of 2 into a centre is so stressful.
We can’t afford to live in Sydney on only 1 income for any longer, but everywhere I go I just get told there are no places for under 2s. What can be done????
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I work in Child Care Administration in Wollongong and am seeing waiting list timeframes of up to 2 years for parents wanting child care for a baby 0 – 2 years. We need more child care centres – the demand exceeds the supply particularly here in Wollongong. The increase to the 50% child care rebate is great, but we saw our internal waiting lists double eg parents wanting more days as it had become suddenly cheaper so they could work and/or study more. This then created a LONGER wait time for those on external waiting lists.
After School Care fees are expensive compared to pro rata per hour for Vacation Care – After School Care needs more government assistance to make 3 hours of care more affordable to working parents.
I congratulate the government on recognising the professionalism of childcare and making better staff to child ratios legal. Not unlike aged care, we need more child care centres!!!!!!! The cost of living is not getting cheaper and parents want and need to work – without child care this is not possible – their parents are retiring later also – so the Grandma/Grandpa free child minding is less available to the current generation
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I’m ON those 2 year waiting lists for 0-2 years in Wollongong. It’s ridiculous. I’ve had to drop a subject at uni because I can only use Occasional Care, which we both adore, and rebook it day to day. But Occasional Care is only open 8.30 – 4.30, and uni starts at 8.30 and finishes at 4.30 (sometimes at the earliest). So I dropped one subject and play catch-up on two others that have 8.30 classes. Next session is worse – three 8.30 starts. Not cool.
PM: The government (recently Kate Ellis here) keep banging on about how important and crucial the Early Years are. If that is truly what you believe, fund it properly. Take away all the rebates worked out for each kid, and fund childcare like schools. Treat it as the necessity it is rather than the luxury it is currently treated as. I have a sneaking suspicion that it would work out cheaper and easier for the government to build and fund long day care and Pre-schools, pay the staff decent wages and regulate them, rather than carry on with the ridiculously convoluted system we have now.
I also receive JET childcare assistance, but it doesn’t cover me for my whole degree. Luckily I’m in a position to make a small extra payment to get my account into credit for when it runs out, but I don’t see why it can’t be for the duration of a course for one kid. Again, it comes back to the convoluted funding, I think. Don’t get me wrong, I think JET’s great, for now, but I am really worried about what I’m going to be able to do when it runs out. I just think if it was funded like schools, it would save parents and the centres and Centrelink SO much grief!
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Thank you Kris – your point about necessity versus luxury is absolutely correct!
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I have had my needs met very well as a working mother and have no need to complain at all.
I think the workers have a raw deal- crap wages and all these stupid rules etc they have to document.
I say it is nonsense – let them look after children not document their care.
I also think heavy education is over the top – looking after small kids is common sense and I think good educated bosses is all that is needed to oversea the facilities.
Without the paperwork staff would be freed up to actually do their job and higher wages would be affordable.
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have you seen how some people look after kids? No, it’s not common sense. They are there to educate and support them. I’m not trained in that, so i’d be surprised you’d think anyone can have a go at it.
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Documentation is important as it protect the workers as well as children. So that they receive the care that they are meant to. And as a parent I want to know what my child has done. Eaten etc so I know what I have to do to make sure my son has his nutrition etc met. Not everyone can look after children. It’s not always common sense. Would you say this about a brain surgeon.
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I listed my daughter for the sutherland shire council lobg day care in march, one week after she was born. I have been told the waiting list is long and i’ll be lucky to get even one day care within a year. I want to go back to work but not having guaranteed childcare makes this nearly impossible. Why cant there be more council child care centres?
Also, the ratio on carer to children really makes me question the care my daughter will get.
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Ms Gillard i think its great you are asking the families how they feel about childcare… this is a very big step in a fantastic direction! I am a mum of 2 kids under 4, i am also a full time student who needs to attend classes and therefore need my kids in daycare in order to study. In my house we have 1 wage, my husband brings in a little over $700 a week and our mortgage is $350 so by the time you take away costs of living there is basically nothing left over! Until i finish my nursing degree (which is so insanely difficult for a 24 year old with 2 kids from a low socioeconomic group), i am going to refer to myself as ‘unskilled’. The major problem I have faced returning the the workforce as an ‘unskilled’ worker (which i did do for almost a year after having my first child) is that i ended up earning $350 a week after tax working nights and spending $280 of it on childcare so i could go to uni of a daytime….. so my point is, as an ‘unskilled’ worker MOST of my hard earned wage was spent on daycare which defeats the purpose of returning to work! So what I think essentially im getting at is that there should be some kind of further childcare assistance for unskilled people trying to become skilled for example undertaking a full time uni degree…. Im trying my very hardest to become an economically independent contributing member of society and slaving away in a bar (see what i mean here by unskilled) when i should be studying so that i can afford childcare makes life… well… difficult! So assistance with childcare directed at students who will one day pay lots of taxes (after they finish degrees and and make oodles of money) might be a nice idea! Again i think its great you are having a listen to the public… makes me feel like your at least trying to be on my side!
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i also dont really understand why mothers who are at home, not working, not studying and not looking for work should be entitled to the same childcare rebates and subsidies as mothers who are working, studying or job searching… this money could be better spent!
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I don’t believe they do? I don’t believe they get the 50% rebate that working patents do. Also i believe single mums do need a break sometimes! I am currently on maternity leave with a 3 yr old and a 5 month old and I don’t know how single mums do it!!
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Some mothers like me who are not working, studying or looking for work (although personally i think raising a child is hard work…) have not always been at home with the baby. I was in a high paying job before getting pregnant and boy did i pay a lot of tax. My partner is less skilled than me but i wanted to be there for my baby until at least preschool. When my son goes to school i will get a part time job. My parner and i and my son live on a measly 30,000 per year. We rent, we struggle but we do it because thats how we want our son to be raised, by a parent. I dont feel bad about getting benefits for the 1 halfday i have him daycare because i have paid years and years in tax so why shouldnt i be entitled to a bit of that back?
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As an early childcare educator I just want to answer that question- because all parents should be entitled to respite. Also your looking at childcare as only babysitting but it’s also education. All children are are entitled to early childhood education just as much as any other child regardless of whether their parents work or not.
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“entitled” to respite? Isn’t that a luxury rather than an entitlement? Also, I believe a caring parent can provide a much better learning environment (1 on 1) than a childcare centre can – at least for the younger years! I mean, what does a 6 month old understand about Environment Day and recycled paper??
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No it is not a luxury, it’s actually a health improvement issue for the parent and an additional learning experience for the child.
Parents can of course provide love, security and basic needs, but early childhood educators create learning experiences based on extensive research that benefit cognitive, social and physical development.
It’s not babysitting, there is a LOT of work that goes into every facet of the child care environment
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Stay at home mums don’t get any assistance, and very little respect for what they do!
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Just wanted to say, good on you. I’m a uni student as well who works a lot, but not married and no kids! You must be exhausted everyday. Im sure your kids will one day look back at how hard you worked for the family and appreciate it greatly! All the best for you and your family xxxxx
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thanks for that, our house is…. busy haha lets say and im very lucky to be able to study and be with my kids!
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maybe the childcare fees for uni students could be worked into their HECS debt even?
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Morning Prime Minister,
What could the government do to foster more not-for-profit childcare centres?
Provide facilities, etc?
I have one child in a NFP care centre (within a primary school) and one in private. The NFP is cheap, competent & efficient and the concept could work well with the right nudge.
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We have recently enrolled our 2 year old in childcare in the same not-for-profit centre our older boys went to a few years ago. In that time, the centre lost the team leaders of two rooms and are finding it hard to get new staff. This is disappointing as they were passionate about early childhood education and our boys loved them. The Preschool leader was a qualified preschool teacher, but it is hard for a childcare centre to attract people like this, with the hours they need to work, less holidays etc for the pay they can afford to give them, when the same person could go and work in a government preschool, for less hours, more holidays and much more pay. What can be done to attract qualified people, like early childhood educators, to work in childcare centres as opposed to schools/preschools? A lot of parents can’t send their children to preschools if working full time due to the hours and rely on childcare to provide this level of socialisation and education. It costs parents more money yet the childcare workers are paid less than teachers. Is there a way the State/Terriorty and Federal Governments can work together to fund early education that includes childcare centres?
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I just wanted to say how cool I think it is that you’re actually talking to real people. Thank you for taking the time and having the foresight to come to Mamamia and talk to this community!
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I have worked in early childhood education for the past 9 years. After leaving school I completed the TAFE Diploma in Children’s Services and as of last week submitted my final assignment for my Bachelor of Education (Early Childhood).
I have an enormous passion for the education and care of children within early education services and do not plan to move into the formal schooling system, however, I am disappointed when I compare the wages of educators in the early childhood sector opposed to those in formal schooling: we’ve both been to University, we both have policies and procedures to follow, we both have to plan for children’s learning which meets learning outcomes and curriculums. There is also the endless list of administrative tasks, countless unpaid hours catching up on documenting children’s learning and development, as well as parent and family meetings, community events, professional development seminars, and other similar additional aspects of the job which cannot be managed within the typical 8am-330pm working hours we are paid for (with children in attendance 7 of those 7.5 hours). I acknowledge we are given administration time however this is rarely enough to meet the demands of the job.
With the addition of monetary fines for providers and nominated supervisors there is additional stress and pressure in managing the day to day service operations. I think making the wages comparable to those of educators in the schooling system would be a fair and reasonable start to improving the sector. This would also attract educators to early childhood services and retain those dedicated staff who are amazing at their jobs. I also believe there needs to be greater funding in supporting children with exceptional development. The lack of funding, and the paper trail required for funding, makes the whole process such an arduous task that educators ‘burn out’ before there are positive outcomes.
Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts!
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I absolutely agree with you here.
It’s so hard to retain teachers in the early childhood sector, because really they can;
1.go to the school system, where you get paid more, have better hours & 12 weeks holidays a year
2. Work in a preschool, where you work with the same age range, have better hours & 12 weeks holiday a year
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Hi, have worked in both preschool and childcare centers and used them for the care of two children. Yes pay is much better in preschool but not sure where you get 12 weeks holiday figure from. Daycare i used to get 12 RDO’s a year and was paided for all meetings after hours plus training was done mostly during work hours and was paided for. I also got to choose when I took holidays ie. off peak times. All holidays are now in peak time so can’t afford to anywhere very often or very far for very long. Meetings after hours (like 7pm)with no pay. A certain amount of professional training is compulsory ( or they dock your pay) I pay for it myself and it’s done after hours or in school holidays. Yes you can claim it on tax but I have to come up the money first up then you don’t get all of it back. Am seriously thinking of going back to daycare. when I sat down and looked actual time off it came at 2 days more off working in preschool.
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Joanne,
I could not agree with you more. As a secondary school teacher whose son attends a brilliant Kindergarten, I was horrified recently to attend a parent committee meeting where the enterprise bargaining of teacher wages was being discussed.
Why should these highly educated, very experienced, compassionate, wise and warm teachers have to negotiate fair wages and conditions? Why should they not be entitled to at least the same as me?
It’s a disgrace. They are bloody fantastic – just ask my 4 year old who can’t get to his beloved Kindy quick enough for those five days a fortnight.
Hats off to those who help to care for and educate our precious kids.
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When are you going to end the insane cruelty by stopping live exports?
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Hey CA. That’s a great question but the PM will be here to talk about child care specifically. Sorry about that!
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Prime Minister Gillard, your government has elected to make it compulsory for parents whose children are over 8 years old to be in the workforce, regardless of how many parents are supporting the children in a family. Assuming I can get a job (I am 46 and haven’t had so much as an interview in three years of applying), will there be extra rebates or ongoing support for single-income families to be able to afford childcare? Has your government considered the long-term implications of children who are at home unsupervised from 8 years of age, as is happening now?
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Admin. in preschools should be simplified urgently. The sector is losing a lot of good people because of the ‘over-reporting’ required. Many workers have to fill out forms at home in their own time.
Seriously Julia, have a look at what they are expected to do. That time could be spent productively interacting with the children, which is why they were attracted to the profession in the first place! (They also deserve more money).
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Totally agree, the teachers assistant at our pre-school just resigned due to this, she had been in the position almost 20 years!
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Hi,
I am sad to say that I am leaving the preschool/child care sector at the end of the month.
I have been involved in the ECE as an ECT for over twenty years working in a variety of early childhood settings including government preschools and NFP & private LDCentres.
I am leaving due to the amount of adminstration/paperwork that is now required under the NQS. In a state preschool, dealing with forty children (2 classes of 20 on different days)with visualizing their learning through displays and learning stories, as well as implementing the QIP etc with one untrained staff member – my so called short hours equate to a 60 – 70 hour week. (This includes working on the weekend, as well as attending whole school events – fetes, discos etc).
Lets get real on the requirements that EC staff need to attend to – we are there for the kids, not the paperwork!!!!
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If so many parents are saying that they can’t find child care then doesnt this show that our work is so important, what if child care educators on mass quit the sector well how would people get to work? after all everyone needs child care to go to work including the bus drivers! what if there was no one to drive the but how many people would that effect? food for thought really the country is run on child care educators
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Hi Prime Minister,
I an a first time mum of 1, and would like to hire my mother in law who is a qualified child care worker, to look after my son when I go back to work part time. My mum in law would leave her current full time child care position, so I would need to pay her current salary. I’m planning on sharing this cost with my sister in law. Why couldn’t we be eligible for the child care rebate as well?
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BecausE your mother in law will also be doing your washing ironing and cooking not strictly child care
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Actually I would be taking my son to my mother in law, so it would only be child care responsibilities.
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Are you serious???? Can you not see the difficulties in managing and regulating this at a national level????
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Yes, difficult, but it’s really just the same as the idea of getting a child care rebate for a family day care place, and obviously her mother would very likely be eligible to register as family day care. Doesn’t sound so silly to me.
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Have you looked into your mother-in-law becoming a registered Family Day Care provider? Considering she has a qualification (which isn’t even necessary to set up an FDC) and I assume her house is child-friendly, this can work. I know when the Parenting Payment policy was first changed in ’06 this was the strategy several of our clients used (usually it was their mother/in-law/friend setting up the FDC) to have their children cared for by someone they trusted while still being eligible to receive the Child Care Rebate.
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I am a FDC provider.I am diploma trained and started out in centre based care . I started working in FDC when I couldnt find quality care for my daughter and my sil was having same problem .So the logical answer was to register as FDC so she could claim ccb and i was able to stay home with my child .They went to school 3 years ago , I am still doing FDC now and love it , I could never go back to working in centre based care again.
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Good to hear Julia, thanks for taking the time to listen to us here at MM.
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