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Job hunting is about as easy as doing a 1000 piece puzzle in a windstorm. Most of us know that. It’s ranked up there with moving house as one of the least enjoyed parts of life. So we hardly need employers to make it less desirable.
And yet, here we are.
An Australian study (in conjunction with researchers in Hawaii) has found obese job seekers are consistently ranked lower than those in a more average weight range. That’s ranked on their suitability for the position, how much money they deserve and their overall ‘employability’.
Yes, yes. Maybe the study subjects just had different skills so that’s why those asked to rank them came up with different results? That would make some sense except the researchers used the same job seekers pre and post surgery to see if their sudden weight drop affected their chances.
It did. Remember: it’s the same person.
Here’s how it went down according to lead researcher Dr Kerry O’Brien:
“We used pictures of women pre-and post-bariatric surgery, and varied whether participants saw a resume that had a picture of an obese female attached, or the same female but in a normal weight range having undergone bariatric surgery,” Dr O’Brien said.
“We found that obesity discrimination was displayed across all selection criteria, such as starting salary, leadership potential and likelihood of selection for the job.
“The results suggest that a belief in the superiority of some individuals over others is related to the perception that obese individuals deserve fewer privileges and opportunities than non-fat individuals.”
Let’s unpack that a little, shall we?
Same person. Same resume. Different weight.
Here is proof – not just anecdotal evidence which has existed for years – that heavier people (and women in particular) are given a value of worth that is inversely proportional to the number on a set of scales.
Here is actual data that reveals an unsettling mindset that could be true of many: we think fat people are sub-standard. At least in the job market.
But we intuitively knew that already, right? So the question, now, is: what the actual hell do we do about it?
Have you experienced discrimination in the workplace because of your weight? What happened?
Comments
136 Comments so far
The reality is recruitment is a timely & costly process & no-one wants to get it wrong. Interviews exist to assist the recruiter to weed out the right candidate because frankly CVs can lie or hide glaring flaws that may affect someone’s suitability for a job. Ultimately recruiters are making a decision on the best candidate for the job based on the person’s CV, references & attributes. An hour is unlikely to reveal if someone is lazy, dishonest, unmotivated etc so people revert to judgements whether right or wrong. A young girl dressed ‘inappropriately’ may be perceived as immature, an older gentleman may be seen as wading to retirement & a pregnant woman may be seen as another lengthy recruitment process down the line. The same way someone may see an obese person as someone who may need more sick leave. I’m not even getting into the reasons for obesity but if we are told obesity can be a result of either diet, lack of exercise or a medical condition (including medications) then the general assumption could be that the person may be a liability. Either way they have a visible flag for recruiters whether right or wrong. Discrimination? Yes. But mitigating risk is good business acumen & if faced with 2 suitable candidates you will always take the option that is perceived to be least risky. Just a business reality & everyone is faced by it. Let’s now do a study on the likelihood of getting an interview before & after you change your foreign name etc I’m sure the findings would be similar there again & so on. You get my point I hope…
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For what it’s worth, when I’ve had to do any hiring, I find myself discriminating against smokers. I have some good friends who are smokers – along with my mum and brother – but in my head, smokers are not people I want to work with. I think of them as being weak, dependent, and suspect that they’ll always be sneaking out for breaks. That doesnt mean that I hate (or even dislike) smokers in general. But for whatever reason, I have deep-seated feelings that do cause me to discriminate.
So I guess discrimination is everywhere, in many guises.
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This might be random but at work we have a big bowl of minty lollies in the reception area for clients to help themselves. Two other girls at I work with pig out on them every day. They help themselves to handfuls all the time! It just so happens that they are very slim and pretty girls. I never touch them and yet I know that my boss suspects me as the minty culprit because I’m overweight!
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My mum used to be a large lady and got fired once because she “didn’t match the decor”. She was a receptionist/telephonist. She laughs about it now and puts in that she was also pregnant at the time
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My husband is obese and I KNOW many look at him and think “lazy” and yet he is THE hardest working person in his company – first to arrive, last to leave, does his job plus others because they are lazy. He has 19 weeks sick leave accrued because he’s very very rarely sick and never takes time off work. Aside from his weight (which we both admit is a problem and we are both working to lose weight) he is very very healthy.
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover people and for the love of god, stop being so BLOODY JUDGEMENTAL!!
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But people ARE judgemental. Every decision of every day is based on personal prejudice, subconscious or otherwise. It’s a fact. That’s what makes us human. We discriminate when we shop, when we choose our friends, what we eat/drink/wear/listen to. It’s all personal, that’s life. That’s what makes it interesting.
Our appearance is OUR personal responsibility. Others will discriminate accordingly but we alone decide what we do with the features/bodies we have.
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that is just bloody fantastic *sarcasm* as if looking for a job wasn’t hard enough!
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When I was a smoker, all sorts of people would regularly tell me I should not be smoking and made sure I was aware of the health risks. Strangers would come up to me to me on the street or anytime I was out in public, my boss, other people I worked with and of course family and friends. People judged me for smoking as in their eyes I was making a poor decision and this lowered their opinion of me. This constant feedback ten years ago really did help me make a good decision and quit smoking. Why is it that with my obese and in some cases morbidly obese friends weight is literally the elephant in the room. We can not talk about poor lifestyle choices that lead to their weight being so different to others. We can not talk about the fact they have just ordered a large desert when everyone else is just having coffee. I have to pretent I don’t notice if they have KFC for lunch and others are having sushi or salad sandwich. Why do we have to pretent that it is ok to be obese and that there are not serious health and lifestyle ramifications that cost our society billions.
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That’d be because smoking is not the same as being fat. Smoking is a bad habit (still rude to harp on at people about it though), fat is a body size.
You are wrong when you say that you can’t mention that people are fat – you only have to look at any number of articles online or blog posts from fat people who are verbally abused by friends, family, doctors and complete strangers to know that being fat makes a person a target. None of that contributes one iota to good health, by the way.
It is possible to be fit and fat. There is no proven way of making fat people thinner permanently. The most popular bit of advice – diet – is effective in maybe 5% of cases. Obesity does not cost anyone’s society billions, it’s a weight. Health care can cost billions but then obese people are not the only people who can have health problems. Why not focus on health instead of weight? It’s more useful, plus you and your friends will be able to enjoy a meal together without stress.
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OMG are you serious????????? Health relates to weight. There are numerous studies that have shown the link between obesity and illness such as cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc. You can be obese with no symptoms ( ie assuming you are healthy) all the while cholesterol is building up on your coronary arteries then bang you have a heart attack out of the blue.
So all of a sudden you have had a heart attack, damaged your heart and need heart surgery. The surgery is going to be a major risk as you need a massive amount of anesthetic drugs, your lungs are hard to ventilate during the surgery because of all the weight pressing on them, then they can’t close your chest as with your size and the swelling it’s impossible to do. You end up in Intensive care for days, develop an infection due to your chest having to stay open, then pneumonia as you are stuck on a ventilator for so long.
THIS IS A COMMON SENARIO. Diet absolutely can keep weight off. How can you think otherwise???????????
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Discrimination is wrong. In fact….discrimination for any reason is illegal.
Take note !
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While I’m sure the study has merit I do want to question whether the previously overweight applicants perhaps addressed the job hunt with higher self esteem, which would have shone through in interviews etc. if the study was done after they put on weight then the opposite might be the case, I.e. less confidence.
Having previously worked in recruitment I’m positive that things other than your skills have influence in an interview situation, but as I said confidence counts for a lot in an interview.
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Can’t speak on the discrimination at work front, but I have noticed that some folks seem to have a strange abhorrence for the overweight. My in-laws, for example. They tutt-tutt about fat people, and generally act as though that person is a disgrace. I don’t get it. How can we possibly judge why they are that way? A love of gourmet food? Self-medicating? Genes? Disease? None of anyone’s business anyhow. Times in my life that I’ve been overweight its been for a mulitude of reasons, but tell you what, never once because I was a bad, stupid or lazy person.
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My great-grandmother is like this!!! My brother introduced his (obese but lovely) girlfriend to the family and you would think he’d brought home a plastic doll or a donkey. You could tell everyone was thinking “ohh…I wasn’t expecting her to be FAT”, in the same way they’d think “ohh…I wasn’t expecting his new girlfriend to be a barnyard animal!”. After they’d gone, my grandmother was all over it with the usual gems – “wouldn’t she be pretty if she lost some weight” or my personal favourite “I didn’t know he liked chubby girls”. What made it worse is that I’m fat too!!
Got to love grandmas. :/
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Oh Oz….!
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If only the words like arsehole, slacker or racist etc. were transparently stamped across people’s chest during and interview we could avoid the real problem people of society not some poor person who happens to enjoy double coat Tim Tams or has a serious health issue. I’d much rather hire a kind, hard working person who maybe overweight over a self righteous jerk who happens to be thin.
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Oh dear! Such nasty tones about overweight people!! Making us all sound depressed, miserable and lazy. Well we aren’t!! I am very overweight, have 3 adorable young children, a husband who thinks I am hot and friends who absolutely love me. I am built very similar to Chrissie Swan. And I am just as much fun! Back off all you fat haters!! ‘Obesity is a choice’ blah blah. Yep, so is being judgemental and rude. I do not drink, I do not smoke, I do not gamble, I am not addicted to porn, I am not a pedophile, I am not a child abuser, I am not a thief, I am not a criminal. The only thing I really do ‘wrong’ is enjoy a little too much exciting food! And the whole world is allowed to judge me and my ‘fault’. Wish all the above labels I mentioned could so easily be distinguished and judged……
Big does not equal miserable! My children LOVE their cuddly mummy. And I do run around and bike ride with them and practice netball and all the things you perfect skinny mothers do!! Please stop the nastiness guys!!!
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But your body isn’t designed to be obese and you are hurting yourself. I never understand why people say being fat is okay. It’s not. All that sugary crap you eat damages your body and reduces your life span. That isnt to be celebrated
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I eat sugary/fatty crap constantly! I have what I like to call a junk food addiction, which I am working very hard to control! I can’t get through the afternoon without a packet of chips and chocolates/lollies! Did I mention I weigh about 55kgs and I am 5ft10? Just because someone is a curvier size doesn’t automatically mean they are unhealthy or have never eaten a salad!
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Thank you BeetotheZee.
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It’s great that your happy, but you are not healthy.
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Pardon? Girls your concern makes me smile, but it also makes me a bit sad for how opinionated some people are, and how brainwashed and judgemental people can be. My blood pressure is perfect, my cholesterol is perfect, my sugar levels are perfect. I exercise regularly. I eat plenty of fruit, veg, lean meats, fish, drink plenty of water etc. I am incredibly healthy, just fatter than your perfect selves. Sorry if it offends you. Look the other way when I walk by.
And on a different note, getting back to the original story that has stemmed all these remarks from the amazing slim healthy perfect people, I would love to let you know that I have never experienced being judged in job interviews. After having a professional career for many years before my children, I recently re-entered the workplace in a less demanding role. I work part time in a stunning homewares shop, and it is amazing! I was ‘up against’ many stunning, young, slim little whippets. And they chose me. They didn’t see me as a liability whose girth would knock vases as I walked through the shop. ( I am exaggerating my size here folks). They saw a warm, lovely, hard working woman. I am up ladders, under beds and many other things that I assume you may think a larger person could not possibly do.
We are all human guys, please know that your remarks about my health really hurt my feelings, as you do not know me, or my lifestyle. You simply see a fat person and ‘assume’. Well stop it!!!
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You may not be showing any symptoms at the moment, but your body will be suffering. For example Cholesterol takes years to build up on heart arteries before it causes a heart attack. Even if you need minor surgery one day you will be at higher risk of pneumonia etc post op because of your weight. Even catching the flu and becoming really sick from it. If you are over a certain weight you can’t be put on certain life saving machines.
You say you eat a healthy diet, exercise but still very overweight but healthy and happy. For your sake stop the denial.
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Rock on, emmabmumof3.
If you don’t mind my saying, you sound like a great example of a fit fatty. Don’t let the haters or the concern trolls get you down! 
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Did my comment get deleted because it was in response to an offensive one? I really hope I wasn’t offensive-I was just so appalled by what was said :/
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Yup – the offensive post got deleted and so all the replies did too
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Oh thank you for replying Lana-I got really worried I’d been too rude! You guys really do work all hours of the day, it is appreciated
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https://plus.google.com/116302989154945186147/posts/WCGFUNbZuto
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I am a HR Manager and I have spent a lot of years recruiting in a number of different industries. What I have observed is that ‘EVERYONE’ has some sort of prejudice against a particular group. They are sometimes aware of it, sometimes not.
I have worked with managers who are against hiring people for more traditional reasons such as age (old or young), race or sex. I have worked with managers that will not hire a particular skill mix. I had someone who would not hire an extremely qualified and lovely young woman because she was too good looking and she would distract the men on site!
I would love to say that discrimination does not exist in any form but that is not reality. I try extremely hard to hire the best person for the job and not let perception get in the way.
I have interviewed people of all shapes and sizes and I judge them on being on time, presented appropriately for interview (you can be presented well or badly regardless of your weight by the way) and the skills, knowledge and ability they bring to the job.
In my own experience, I go onto interviews and I am totally open and honest about having 3 children. It is something I don’t have to discuss or divulge but I would rather it out for there for all to know as I do not want to work for a company that would have an issue with my family commitments.
My advice to anyone who think they are being judged on their weight when seeking work is the same as to anyone. That is to go in and sell yourself honestly. If they don’t hire you and you were the best candidate, that is their loss and they were not the person or company you should want to work for as they obviously do not value what should matter.
Finally, in regards to all the ‘perfect’ people who have made appalling comments here about people who are overweight, I have to say it has made me disappointed in how horrible members of the human race can be to each other. Judgement of others with no substance of fact and broad generalisations is just sad.
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Thanks, Mum of 3, for your comment. I found your insights as a HR Manager especially interesting. I missed out on a job last year (which I had been temping in for almost 18 months). I have loads of experience in my field and am a very competetent and professional worker. I doubted the reason I was given for not getting the job was the real reason, and that seemed to be confirmed when I met the person who won the position (i.e. 15 years younger, about 30kg lighter, but much less experience / skills). Luckily, another manager within the same company noticed and appreciated my skills and experience and I now have a job in another department, which I love.
I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with your final comment on the number negative, judgemental and really quite nasty people commenting on this article (they obviously either haven’t read, or choose to completely disregard the Comment Guidelines. I couldn’t read past the first half dozen comments.
Mama Mia staff, please take notice: you are losing at least one formerly regular reader, as I find it very depressing to be constantly reminded how small-minded people really can be (and this is evident in the comments section of almost every article I read on this site!)
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It deeply saddens me that not only is this the case in the above research, but also in the supportive MamaMia community going by so many of the comments below. A reflection of society at large?*absolutely no pun intended*.
What can be done about discrimination? No discrimination is ok. But it does seem that while sexism, racism etc have a bad rap (as well they should) society in general deems it okay to discriminate based on physical attributes, especially weight. Not to get too deep or generalize too much but it does seem to denote what our society values as a whole. A particular representation of physical beauty and an alleged representation of ‘health’.
I believe that society will move passed this phase and future generations will look back on this type of discrimination as we do with racism etc and think “i cant believe that was socially acceptable, how did that happen?” However that knowledge doesnt help an individual who experiences this ‘size bashing’ on a day to day basis, in the streets, online, in media and literature and does not have the power to shift popular opinion.
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On one hand I was thinking luckily they get to interview stage and on the other I was like what a waste of your time getting that far and then being totally disregarded as soon as you walk into the door(obviously unbeknow to yourself).
At the end of the day there are many ways in which we can be discriminated against that employers/recruiters can get away with. Me I am non-anglo, a young gen y female with a very complicated non-anglo name, oh and I have a facial piercing. So plenty of negative stereotypes to put me out of the running for jobs, that’s even if they don’t cull my CV first just by looking at my name (Take note employers, I will never apply for a job through a recruitment complany as the things I have heard are horrendous). Anyway, my point is that as much as being discriminated against sucks big time, I see it as these shallow people doing me a massive favour as I can imagine the workplace environment would not be a very positive experience anyway. So I am better off not working for/with these people as my mental health is a lot more important!!!
Though I am in total agreeance that this type of discrimination is wrong on so many levels.
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I have a medical condition that makes me very susceptable to weight gain, and makes it very difficult for me to lose weight. Even a slight gain in weight can effect my fertility and make me very likely to get heart-disease and diabetes. I also work full-time in a legal office and am on my final year (full-time too) of a law degree. I live an hour away from work so I travel almost 200km daily in the car and I live on a cattle property and am often required to help with farming tasks too. But I always make sure I eat a healthy diet and exercise at least 5 days a week. I agree that sometimes life becomes so fast paced but there is no excuse for the amount of obesity that is around. I think people should stop blaming a medical condition for their poor eating habits and lack of exercise. While some people may always be overweight because of their condition, this level of obesity is inexcusable.
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You just made me feel like the laziest most useless person ever. I compllain about never being able to get to the gym, not being able to get into a position I really want to work in and just not having enough time in my day (I do have a toddler and am pregnant but only working part time). I don’t know how you do it, you must be a superwoman, I take my hat off to you!!
Oh and that first line was meant to put you in a good light, so please don’t take offence
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Thanks Dkmum, it is not easy but it is worth it. It can be hard to find the time, but I must admit I do not have children, and often babysitting my nieces (3 and 5), I can relate to the fact that kids are a LOT of work! I am sending lots of encouragement your way and even 15 minutes in a day at home high intensity is worth it, if you can manage! Although I guess 1 toddler and 1 baby on the way does keep you on your toes
Congrats on your pregnancy 
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I am lucky to work in a workplace where weight isn’t an issue. Getting promotions is still a popularity contest, but I find my personality overwhelms any concerns about my weight. I’m 27 and a size 18, and have been overweight for most of my adult life. I have been lucky that it’s never held me back (career-wise)
Given some of the comments, I should probably qualify this by saying that I have a severe mental illness which I am on medication for life for which causes weight gain. It makes it very difficult for me to lose weight especially as when I’m down I have less willpower. I also study as well as working full time and lack the motivation to exercise (I’m happy with the way I am).
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That’s awesome! Out of curiosity, what industry do you work in?
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I work in the library industry
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Hi smittenkitten, congrats and kudos on the heavy-sounding workload you have! All the best with it, and I’m thrilled you’re happy with the way you are.
I only wanted to say that you shouldn’t have to qualify your comments at all – no one should. It shouldn’t be necessary for anyone to justify why they are whatever weight or look whatever way and I think it’s a reflection of how prejudiced our societies are that we feel we have to. Bluntly, it’s none of my damned business.
I hope you stay in good health!
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I think it’s a little sad that the discussion focus is on how lazy various fat people are – I’m sure there are lazy skinny people. Shouldn’t the focus be on the data that says this is more true for women than men? Yes, our grooming is important and weight is one aspect but why again is it women that are worse off whatever the visible factor.
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Happy to put my hand up as a skinny lazy person
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I am so offended by these comments it’s amazing. Talk about judging a book. Yes I am obese, I have never been out of work and work full time in a high level job, oh and I have three kids. In my performance reviews I am always rated outstanding. I take great pride in my work and have more than enough motivation to go above an beyond the requirements of my job. I have also never been discriminated against due to my weight. I imagine it is because my resume and reputation speak for themselves. My work days look like this I get up at 5.30, get my three kids up and ready, leave home at 7.20, drop my youngest at daycare then the older two at school. Then I drive to work and start at 8. I work through taking only 30mins for lunch so I can leave at 4 to pick my kids up. We usually get home at 4.45. Then we start homework, one of my boys has dyslexia so he needs help and I spend a good hour with him and his brother. Then I cook dinner, make lunches, do dishes etc. After that it’s bath & bedtime for the kids. Once they’re in bed I tackle the washing and ironing. I usually stop for about 30 mins when I finally sit down for the night, before I head to bed around 11. I would love for one of you expert commentators to tell me where I can squeeze in some exercise so I can lose this weight as it is apparently so easy. I really don’t think I could be more motivated or energetic in my work – it’s the easiest part of my day!
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i agree some people out there are coming across just plain nasty.
You seem so busy – are you a single mum? that day is hectic!
if you are in a relationship… that load needs to be shared. women still seem to bare the brunt of so many house hold chores!
and if you are a single mum… good on you!!
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Nah not a single Mum but married to a soldier who is away a lot and works very long hours when he is home. He shares the load when he is here…
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You sound like an absolute warrior yourself!! I’m in a similar situation albeit only with one child and one on the way, working part time and hubby away half the year. While I’m blessed with a slim figure I am so thrilled that work has a strong health programme. This means I get to do an hour of Pilates a week during my lunch break. I also only have half hour lunch breaks, but when my husband is home I build up some flexi time.
If it wasn’t for that one hour, the only exercise I’d get would be chores and chasing after my little girl.
Wishing you the best!!
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I’d better put down my second muffin before my job interview tomorrow.
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Good luck!
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Obesity is a choice. There I said it. Anyone can lose weight if they drop the excuses and get off their butt. I have lost 25kgs despite medication for a health condition, demanding job, young kids etc.
I am much more energetic, healthier and confident and I believe this also shows at work. I am a better employee because of my healthier life style. Less sick leave, more productive etc.
I don’t blame employers for employing healthy people. I don’t care what anyone says. Being overweight is not healthy.
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Using the same argument that makes Anorexia a choice too.
For many people obesity is a result of their choices, but we can’t just disregard the health issues, physical and mental, that are behind SOME people’s obesity.
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Anorexia is a mental illness. Obesity is a choice. Yes many fat people have issues, but how many of their issues disappear when they lose weight. Just look at The Biggest Loser for an example of this.
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I would argue that you have the cause and effect mixed up. “Look at how much their weight drops when they start acknowledging and dealing with their problems” (emotional eating etc)
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1) You’ve left out the physical illnesses, such as thyroid issues.
2) I would imagine a large amount of obese people do have mental illnesses, such as depression, that does effect their weight. Not all, maybe not even a majority, but some do.
Getting a taxi or riding a tram is a choice.
Getting a coffee or a chai latte is a choice.
Obesity is a long series of smaller choices, and at some stage you are passed the point it is easy to return from.
This view reminds me of people who turn up their nose at addicts and/or homeless people and/or street workers. This is not a choice. No-one chooses these things nor obesity (bar the very few outliers).
Such a suggestion has such a baffling lack of sympathy to me. It oversimplifies what isn’t a simple situation.
And I refuse to watch a highly edited reality TV show as an example of how someone’s ‘issues’ are removed when they lose weight. That show is so far removed from an everyday person’s reality it doesn’t prove anything.
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Jess,
Choosing what you put in your mouth is a choice.
Exercising is a choice.
Weight= calories in vs calories out.
It really is no more complicated than that.
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It is more complicated than that. For a start, a human is not a closed system and we don’t all work exactly the same. Then there’s access to (healthy) food, access to exercise options (if desired) and that’s without addressing any other health or lifestyle circumstances…
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“Anorexia is a mental illness. Obesity is a choice. ”
Anorexia is an eating disorder; other eating disorders can lead to obesity.
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The Biggest Loser is a horrible example for anyone – are you seriously implying people should behave like they do? Those are not healthy behaviours at all. How many of the contestants keep the weight off after they resume eating and don’t have people screaming at them all the time?
Let’s focus on health, not weight.
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So by that same argument, if an employer discriminated against a potential employee because they were a smoker, drinker or went to the solarium regularly based on the premise that they were choosing an unhealthy lifestyle would that be OK?
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Firstly, congratulations on the weight loss. 25kgs is an amazing effort and you should be so, so proud of yourself!
But – I think your comment is unfair and untrue.
As Jess says, yes, there are lots of little choices involved along the way to weight gain. But do you think all the people out there who aren’t on the Biggest Loser and try and lose weight, only to fail time after time, are “choosing” their outcome?
Well, they aren’t. I used to work as a dietitian and what it taught me was that lots of people are unhappy about their weight, they know they need to eat more healthily and exercise in order to become healthier, and yet they can’t.
It’s not as easy as you say. There are many, many complex reasons for weight gain.
And although I personally am not overweight, how many times have I eaten a huge amount of chocolate, knowing I shouldn’t, knowing I’d hate myself and feel terrible afterwards? Many…but I do it anyway! I’m human!
Have a bit of compassion, life isn’t black and white and most people are doing their best
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I am a compassionate person- honest, but compassionate.
Obesity is absolutely a choice. I have a chronic health condition and stresses in life, who doesn’t. I have been there people. You don’t choose what happens to you sometimes in life, but you do choose how you deal with it. We are all responsible for our own choices.
If I was on here saying oh I have a chronic health condition, a child with special needs( both are true), and I’m obese because of it I would have no end of sympathy. Instead i exercise as the endorphins help my pain. I eat well as being a fit, healthy weight is the best gift i can give my child. I consciously make the choice to eat well and prioritize exercise.
Why are we making obesity socially acceptable? And it is becoming socially acceptable judging by the comments re people can’t help it, I must be a person with no compassion etc. We haven’t taken this view with smoking, why are we taking it with obesity??????????
I would like to see obese people being empowered, rather than sympathized with. To anyone out there who is obese, you CAN change your situation. You can feel amazing, energetic and live a long healthy, happy life.
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It’s a good point, that you can choose how you cope with things. And I agree some people do have the mental strength and motivation to lose weight and stay healthy – all credit to you and anyone else who has done it.
I guess my concern is that, from my experience and knowledge, judging overweight people as lazy and saying they ‘choose’ to be that way doesn’t help; it actually makes it tougher. If someone feels miserable and like they are a failure, they are going to turn to old habits for comfort. Emotional eating, that type of thing.
I would prefer to help people embrace themselves as more than their weight. I want them to feel happy about who they are as people. What then follows is often that they look after themselves more as they feel they are worth something – and hey, their health improves too.
As I said before, most people are just trying their best.
But I do agree that people should feel like they absolutely can change their lifestyles. I suppose I just don’t want people to feel like failures if they don’t succeed straight away!
(sorry, long comment – issue close to my heart)
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If you argue that some people are obese as they dont have the mental strength and motivation to deal with the underlying causitive factors, then surely discrimmination at interview is warranted? If I was interviewing, I would be wanting someone who was able to be strongly motivated and phychologically fit. At interview you can only judge people on what they offer up, and it is natural to read into someones appearance, inferences about their character.
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Hi Kate
Although that’s technically what I wrote, it isn’t exactly what I meant. Such a complex issue and it’s hard to explain in these comments!
But weight loss is very, very difficult. Hence the fact that only a tiny proportion of people are successful at losing weight and keeping it off.
So mental strength and motivation help but I didn’t mean to imply they are the be all and end all – my bad.
A big part of the problem is the fact that hormonal changes resulting from weight loss make it almost impossible to maintain that weight loss.
I can sense I’m arguing myself around in circles here so I’ll stop!
But I’m still saddened at how judgmental a lot of people here are, and at the lack of compassion towards others.
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At my work, there’s a girl who’s stick thin, has great skin and, judging by appearances, doesn’t look unhealthy. But she is- she takes an incredible amount of drugs and is constantly unproductive and vomiting, if she even shows up. She’s extremely unhealthy. Arguably, that’s her choice.
There’s another woman at work who has outraged customers several times by being openly racist towards them. That’s her choice.
There’s also a manager who bullies employees with shouting and aggression, and several employees who steal from the company. Those behaviours are also choices they’ve made.
But if all those people were in a group job interview with an obese person, the obese person’s weight would be far more quickly identifiable than anyone else’s problem. Because weight is visible.
Everyone makes bad choices. It seems twisted to refuse to hire someone based only on (what I would argue) is an irrelevant flaw for most jobs, just because it’s easy to spot.
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What has that got to do with anything? It doesn’t matter why they are overweight the issue is they are descriminated against. If they can do the job who cares if they’re overweight?
You’ll be singing a different tune when you put those 25kg’s back on.
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Hi Shocked. I hope that made you feel better about yourself telling me I will put the weight back on. Sorry for the delay in replying, I was up at 5.45am in the dark, rain and 6deg temp to run as it was the only way exercise would fit into my day today.
As I have said before like it or not obesity does affect ones health physically and at times mentally. This flows onto work performance sometimes. That’s not discrimination, it’s the truth.
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I wish that they had parted with more of their funding to employ someone to digitally “fatten” their models up… people judge on so much other than weight; confidence, posture, general look of health.
People who are so obese that they have surgery are usually so obese it’s affecting their health, and this, in turn, affects people’s perceptions of their capability to perform the job. This study is invalid because they haven’t controlled for these factors. And before anyone says that this isn’t true, remember how many times you’ve commented on someone’s facebook photo saying “you look so happy/healthy/amazing/glowing/radiant!”.
Also, I’m a relatively thin, young, ok looking, qualified, smart, organised person – and I can’t get a job either. What’s their excuse for that?
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Wow. I’m surprised but at the same time not surprised by some of the responses on here.
I’ve read a lot about the “fat acceptance” movement that seems to be picking up a lot of traction in the media lately.
While I don’t agree with everything that is put forward, I do strongly agree with this: You cannot judge someone’s health by their size without knowing their medical history. Someone who is overweight or obese might have a thyroid problem which requires medication and as a consequence of that medication, the person uncontrollably puts on weight. Or a myriad of other health issues.
You can’t make assumptions that because someone is fat, they are automatically lazy and care less about themselves and their appearance, because you just don’t know unless you know their medical history. It’s the same as assuming someone who is very very thin undereats – you don’t know that unless you know their eating habits and medical history.
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Someones medical history might account for as little as 20% of the population of obese people. As much as we might like to believe that someone has a medical problem that lead to them being obese, its GENERALLY not the case.
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There’s probably some truth in that statistic Sam. The point I was making is that you can’t identify that 20% just by looking at someone – i.e. you really don’t know the situation and can’t judge, on the person’s appearance alone.
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Like it or not, there’s a certain image that is projected if you’re obese. It’s awful, but it’s there. The image is that you’re a bit lazy, or lack self-control, or a bit sloppy — something to do with the lack of fashionable work clothes for obese people I guess.
It’s awful and I hate that that is where my brain leaps to, but it does. That said, my company recently hired an overweight woman (borderline obese, I guess) and man, can that girl work. She’s the most motivated person ever, far more so than my skinny arse will ever be.
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I worked in a busy, crowded, fast-paced little restaurant as a waitress for a while, and obese people were not hired. I can kind of understand why, too, because it was difficult enough for a skinny person to navigate around the too-close tables and chairs quickly whilst laden with heavy trays.
There are some jobs where being obese truly would make a person less suitable. There are, however, many more jobs in which it shouldn’t make a shred of difference.
This reminds me of a similar study where they found that more attractive people were likely to be chosen over less attractive ones.
Unfortunately, its not something you can legislate around because it’s subtle and no employer is going to admit, probably not even to themselves, that they chose someone caus they looked better.
Gotta roll with the punches, I guess.
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Just wondering how many obese staff are working at Mamamia?
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I think I know what you’re trying to insinuate. We’re a small company. We hire on skill. We need to.
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Rick, I love the way you dress. The Mamamia office has to be one of the most stylish offices in Sydney. I was only kidding about keeping all overweight staff in a room by the way. I suppose with this topic it was probably insensitive to kid around about it.
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It’s hard to tell with written word tone sometimes! I take more effort in Winter…
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I’m really confused by this Rick –
You need to hire on skill…
Which company doesn’t…?!!
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Exactly. So the fact we have no technically obese people in the office is entirely irrelevant. And such a ridiculous conspiracy theory I don’t know why I’m even responding.
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I think the point of the study is that people don’t actually realise they’re discriminating, i.e. the prejudice is subconscious. Perhaps the companies involved in the study would say the same thing as you, Rick, if questioned! Just saying…
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I’d agree.
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Ahh I see – I got confused because I thought you were insinuating other companies don’t need to hire on skill.
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I can’t access the full study, so I can’t read it in detail, but I think the study’s methods are flawed.
Obviously, the post-bariatric surgery photo will look slimmer, but there will also be other noticable differences that could sway employers. The post-surgery photo will be more likely to project self confidence and happiness through their body language and facial expressions. Conversely, you can probably tell from their pre-surgery photos that they have low self esteem and confidence. Whilst employers will notice weight, they will also notice these differences.
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The owner of my children’s child care centre has openly admited to me that she does not hire obese people. The Owner said she only wants employees who are fit. She further added that in her 30 years of child care experience, it was the obsese employees who “dragged the chain” as they who were unable to physically keep up with the demands of looking after young children and babies and put in their fair share of playing with, cleaning up after and chasing around little people. I’m sure the child care industry is not the only industry where discmination against employing the obese is prevalent. Although it sounds harsh, I can see the owner’s point of view and of course, from a parent’s point of view, I only want the best for my children. High staff morale = happy child care centre = happy children.
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I think we’re losing sight of the real issue here. There are some jobs, like childcare, that require people to have a certain level of fitness and agility.
This is not like someone refusing to hire someone of a different race, purely based on that fact, this is a question of physical ABILITY, not APPEARANCE.
In the case of people of different races, obviously that is discrimination usually for discrimination’s sake.
But in this situation, we are missing the point. Obesity is a disease. It comes with health impacts. It comes with limitations. It’s not just about “she doesn’t look like Kate Moss so she didn’t get the job.”
It’s far more complex than that, but as usual it has become an issue of political correctness rather than common sense.
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Miss B,
While I agree with and second everything you said above, I can’t help thinking that you may have confused ‘agility’ with ‘stamina’. To work in child care, you need to have the energy to keep up with the kids. While important, agility will only get you so far.
L xx
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Hmm…stamina is a part of it too…but I still stand by agility, haha.
Being able to pick up one child, while dodging a flying toy headed for your head and not stepping on the child tugging on your pant-leg requires a bit of agility!
xo
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I am medically classified as being morbidly obese.
I have been in the childcare industry (centres and as a Nanny) for the past 18 years.
I have had 5 sick days in that time.
I am healthy, I keep up with the children and I am, on quite a few occasions caring for 4 or 5 busy babies and toddlers at one time.
My weight has NEVER been an issue and it will never be, unless somebody else makes it an issue.
I know plenty of thinner people who can not do what I do.
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So as a qualified experienced professional who is morbidly obese and doing something about it. I really hate general assumptions that all overweight people are lazy and will have low productivity at work. I get that we have higher health risks although I have passed with flying colours every health check I have been given, ( perfect, cholesterol, blood pressure etc), I am really hard working as is most of the overweight people I know. I exercise everyday and have lost 15kgs over the last 6 months. It’s bloody hard to do and mine is prompted by health reasons as well as I will soon be rejoining the workforce after having a baby and I am really nervous about the discrimination I will get due to my size. I have experienced it before. I’m usually told that I m the wrong cultural fit for an organization when not successful.
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It is bloody hard to lose weight Nikki. If it were so easy everyone would be doing it all the time and as a nation we would be getting thinner not fatter.
Well done on exercising everyday – what an achievement!!
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Absolutely agree. Well done on starting a difficult but worthy journey.l
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good luck with your return to the work force. If wish I had the dedication to exercise everyday – you certainly sound like you are on the right path. xx
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But this doesn’t explain the phenomenon that is Clive Palmer!?
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But on a more serious note though, what about those individuals that put on weight BECAUSE of the stresses from work? I know a few people like that at my work. They are so committed to their jobs and I think it actually prevents them from losing weight. They work long hours too.
Losing weight is hard, especially in the beginning. For the first few weeks people tend to have less energy and are grumpy and moody when changing their diet or starting to exercise.
I think is a barrier for a lot of people, especially ones in demanding jobs that never let up.
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People are going to make judgements based on what they see. One of my good friends look about ten years younger than they are, which may sound great, but the number of employment problems she’s had because people assume she’s not “experienced” is ridiculous.
Whether it’s your weight, height, gender, assumed or actual age, physical appearance is going to have an impact on how people first perceive you. Maybe that’s not fair, but there are always ways to change that perception.
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Some see obese people and think ‘lazy.’ I see an obese person and see a person with depression/anxiety who is self medicating.
Having said that and having been there myself, as an employer I would take an equally qualified person within the healthy weight range over an obese person. Energy levels and clear thinking are affected by excess weight.
But the discrimination is sad.
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How is clear thinking related to obesity???
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Yep, I gotta disagree with clear thinking thing too. Some of the smartest, most articulate and emotionally intelligent people I know are obese.
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Why do you automatically see an obese person with depression or anxiety self medicating? I’m obese, and I’ve never had any problems with depression or anxiety. Bit of a generalisation if you ask me.
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Anon what you are doing is no different to seeing an obese person as lazy. You don’t that person nor what their history. All because they are obese DOES NOT make them any less capable of performing the work. I’d like to know how you come to the conclusion that energy levels and clear thinking are affected by weight, please link the peer reviewed scientific studies.
Yes discrimination is sad, and you are being discriminating yourself.
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That’s actually no different to me. You’re making an assumption about me based on one criteria.
I’m not depressed or anxious, I’m not lazy, I am on medication with weight gain as the primary side effect, I do have a medical condition that makes exercise extremely difficult most days of the week, I do have another medical condition that causes weight gain, I am losing weight eating more than I ever have before as I’ve finally worked out what works for me, I exercise when and as I can, I do have two doctors and a former dietitian who would agree with the above, I don’t think my weight changes who I am as a person, I don’t choose to be overweight, I do choose to do my best to lose weight and manage my health, I do choose to be realistic about what that means.
I’ve never been discriminated against in terms of hiring in the workplace but have of course felt the scorn of people I work with who have no idea.
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While i really dont think there is a direct correlation between weight and ability, I can see why there are people like the prospective employers in this study, who think that weight is a factor worth considering.
I have worked in offices where no matter what the size of the employee is, everyone puts in 110% and achieves targets. There were several clinicly obese people in that office, as well as some ‘bean poles’ and many people in between.
However, i have worked in offices where it is so clear that the employees who are overweight do less in their role than the fitter employees. These particular overwieght people may be in the minority in the scheme of things, but their lack of motivation has definitely left a taste in the mouth of management. They looked good ‘on paper’, but they definitely underperform.
So realistically, I can see why anecdotally some managers and HR folk make judgments based on size. Im not saying its ok, because I wouldnt do it myself, but I can see how it happens.
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I worked in international investment banks for years and they definitely don’t employ fat people. In fact I remember in my younger years commenting to a colleague “have you noticed that every single women here in size 10 max and we all have nearly the same length hair”. Creepy. Its ridiculous as I know many fat friends and none are lazy.
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I worked in a Dr’s surgery for many years and all of the female staff were tall, skinny and blonde, they were DR’s receptionists, nurses, book keepers… I was the only one without matching D cups. I had never noticed particularly until a patient pointed it out and said that it was the talk of the town, people assumed our boss had a little harem happening.
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just…. WOW.
So many words in my head now, but none of them right for public consumption…
According to Renee, “What do we do about discrimination against obesity? I think we tell people that it happens and empower them to change themselves so it doesn’t happen to them. Obesity is something you can change, which puts it in a unique category.”
WTF?? So now we shouldn’t fight against discriminatory behaviour, we should just accept it & succumb to it?
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I completely agree. Reading these comments saddens me – so many people saying “Not trying to offend but…” or “I know this happens and I don’t agree with it but…” and finishing with some version of “but skinny people can probably do a better job for ‘whatever’ reason”
Discrimination is discrimination.
Some of these comments read as if you shouldn’t even bother looking for or applying for jobs until you lose weight – well guess what, overweight people need to pay rent/mortgage, feed the family, pay bills too, and banks and phone companies will not accept an “IOU – will pay when I’ve lost 10/25/65kg so that people will employ me”
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I believe my friend was discriminated at work because of her weight. She was devestated when she did not receive the promotion she had been promised. My instinct was that it was because of her weight, but how could I say that to her?! She ended up moving companies and is unhappy at her new job. Why? No-one will talk to her and she is excluded from everything, from meetings to farewell morning teas & Friday night drinks. She doesn’t know what she’s supposed to have done. Again – how could I say to her that I think they’re doing it because she’s fat?! It’s shameful behaviour by her work colleagues. I hate seeing my friend upset – any advice?!
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Gee, this is hard to write without being too offensive (and I’m not sure I’ve managed it)…
My husband is a boss and he admits to not employing people who are obese. For him, it’s not an issue of paying them less (which just seems bizarre), he just doesn’t employ them to start with.
He has ‘inherited’ an obese male employee in his new team, and he has had to try hard to overlook the initial “I wouldn’t have hired this guy, he looks lazy” thoughts and work with the person he’s been given. Of course, this person confirmed his view on laziness by being a ‘wheelbarrow’ employee (you stop pushing and they stop). But after 6 months, he has slowly helped this employee understand what he wants from him, and how he is perceived by the rest of the team and by the management team. “People notice that you cut corners, and this furthers their perception of you. If you want to progress, you need to work to change that.” They have, together, mapped out a program to get this employee towards his career goals, and this has helped the employee put in more effort.
My husband believes that everyone can be helped to excel when given a chance, but this takes time and interviews are not the time to show an apparent weakness when being compared to others.
What do we do about discrimination against obesity? I think we tell people that it happens and empower them to change themselves so it doesn’t happen to them. Obesity is something you can change, which puts it in a unique category.
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Hi Renee,
I appreciate that you were trying not to be offensive, and I’ll attempt to do the same. While that’s an interesting anecdote, it does sound like you’re judging an entire group of people based on your husband’s experience with one individual. Saying all overweight people are lazy because this one employee happened to be overweight and lazy is stereotyping. It’s like saying “I was robbed by a dark skinned person, therefore I can assume that all dark skinned people are criminals”. It’s a huge generalization, and it doesn’t make any logical sense.
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“People notice that you cut corners, and this furthers their perception of you.”
It’s appropriate to say “people notice that you cut corners” (although far better for a manager to say “*I* have noticed”…). To add “this furthers their perception of you” is unnecessary and discriminatory. It’s basically the same as saying, “Because you are fat, we have all assumed you’re lazy… and now you’re proving that our preconceived prejudices were correct.”
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what if i were to say:
“I am not going to hire females between 26 and 30 because they always get pregnant” would that be ok?
I understand it sucks for the employer when someone goes on materity leave..
I understand that they control whether they are pregnant or not..
does that mean it is ok not to hire them?
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My last boss, the HR director did that to me as recruitment manager. No females between 25 and 45 because they would get pregnant and got rid of me at 4 months pregnant. So yes ppl do do and say that.
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I know of alot of people who have that very view!
Makes job hunting as a newly married 28 year old who isnt thinking of kids for quite a while VERY difficult!
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Your husband couldn’t be more wrong. I am the only overweight person in a team of five (the others all being thin and attractive). I’m the first to get to work and usually the last to leave. I make my targets more often than anyone else. Clients request to see me more often than any other team member. I have been in my workplace for a year and have had only one sick day, which was due to gastro I contracted while travelling.
The other team members, on the other hand, have used up all their sick and unpaid leave already! One is always late to work and often late coming back from her lunch break. Another always stinks of smoke. Another comes to work every morning with red-rimmed eyes because of another dramatic fight with her boyfriend. The first two girls can often be found in the tea room scoffing down biscuits when they’re not with clients – despite the fact that there is often work to be done.
So, no. Fat does not equal lazy or unproductive. Quite frankly, my boss has shared the accountant’s figures with me, and my performance is keeping our business afloat. The skinny girls are not pulling their weight (small as it is) at work. Your husband could not be more wrong.
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I feel I will get shouted down for this, but here goes anyway..
Correctly or incorrectly I think there is the perception that overweight people are less healthy. Less healthy means more sick days.
Also I think there is the perception, correct of incorrect again, of laziness, ineptitude, not caring. Especially in demanding jobs – there is the view of how can you manage people, a project, your job, if you can’t manage your own weight?
I don’t even think it’s conscious most of the time, but if you rock up to a job interview as someone that is overweight, it is a bit like showing up dressed messily. It’s just not a good impression. Because in our society a good impression is someone (and I’m talking more a corporate job here) who is dressed neatly, seems reasonably fit and healthy. I’m not saying this is fair, or correct at all.
So in summary, what I’m saying is, for overweight people to not be discriminated against in the job hunt, I think the perception of overweight people being unhealthy and lazy needs to change. Or all the negative connotations surrounding being overweight need to stop.
One main idea on how that would happen is positive public role models like Julie Goodwin pointing out she is happy with her weight, of Chrissie Swan and Meshel Laurie have demanding successful lives, whilst not being a stick figure.. less focus on women ‘dropping’ weight after a baby. And more of a variety of weights in movies and TV.
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What a vicious cycle
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Nothing new here. Attractive people get paid more and so do taller people. More CEOs are above the average height.
I dont think this discrimination is just due to weight.
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I wish!!! I am tall, ok looking and not obese, but I am not paid more. In fact, in my old job I was paid less than the males – law firm with male partners – surprise, surprise. If only that rang true for me, it would be my dream!
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ha so true, I should have said, ‘attractive, tall men’ get paid more.
More CEOs are above the average height because they are all MEN!
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Men get paid more too. Too old, too young, too attractive, not attractive enough, too short, too abrasive looking, too female! It’s all discrimination.
This isn’t a new phenomenon, personal appearance has a lot to do with getting a job. I look a lot younger than I am and my current emploer told me he was reluctant to give me the job because I looked too young to be managing employees. And some of the older ones still have a problem with it. That’s also discriminatory but probably one people won’t jump up and down about. People are always judged on personal appearance, otherwise you wouldn’t bother dressing up for the interview. It depends on whether the panelist/employers are discriminatory and in what way. If they want someone thin, young, old, male, etc then all others will have to be brilliant to overcome the inital bias.
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Energy levels to do a great job would not be the same in an obese person, as in a healthy person. It also is a demonstration of your motivation, commitment and mental strength, and emotional health.
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Commitment and mental strength, and emotional health?!! Oh please. But thanks for making me laugh during which is other wise a subject that isnt funny! I think a skinny person who looks like they need to eat would have mental and emotional issues also (and for the record I am 6ft and 64kg).
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I think/hope you mean
” I think a skinny person who looks like they need to eat COULD LOOK LIKE THEY have mental and emotional issues also (and for the record I am 6ft and 64kg).”
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Anon didn’t say skinny. They said ‘healthy’.
They can be the same. They can be different. Don’t assume.
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But when comparing ‘healthy’ to ‘obese’ the assumption is that Anon was intending ‘healthy’ to mean ‘slim’.
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While im certainly not agreeing with either you or Anon, there is a BIG (pardon the pun) difference between a ‘skinny person who needs to eat’ and the ‘obese person’ example given by anon.
I dont think anyone is suggesting anorexic employees are superior – i think the study more or less suggests that obese and overweight people are copping workplace discrimination before they even get the job…
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Actually, Thumbs down Anon, I can see why commitment, mental strength and emotional health are valid concerns regarding obesity.
No-one would argue that an anorexic doesn’t have any commitment, mental and emotional health problems – because they have an eating disorder. Now, I’m sure there are quite a few obese people out there who have an eating disorder, but are in denial about it. My SIL is one of those people. No-one can tell me that stealing food from other people (including her own family), then hiding it so she can eat it herself in secret later, is a healthy individual!
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Perhaps for some employers there is an air of discrimination, and maybe it’s even a sub-conscious judgement that is being made.
There are also jobs where being obese may mean (depending on your fitness level) it is hard to do the job properly. Particularly manual labour jobs. Perhaps some employers believe it is better not to take the risk of finding out if they are capable or not.
There is also a notion that obese people are not as healthy as others, and may need more days off.
I’m not saying it’s right. But I don’t think it’s as blatant as ‘obese individuals deserve fewer privileges and opportunities than non-fat individuals’. How you interpret (or report, as the case may be) just one conclusion from a study such as this rather than listing all the possibilities is a little insulting to all concerned.
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But that’s the implication of the study. For whatever reason, we’re discriminating against these individuals *before* we even know what they’re like an an employee. That may turn out to be right or wrong, but surely judging someone by their weight alone is not cool?
And those were the researchers words, not mine, just to clarify the part in the quote box.
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I think we judge (and I believe it is usually a correct judgement) obese people to lack the required level of self-discipline and drive we would like to see in an employee.
I agree that using this as a judgement alone is not a good thing but when, as an employer, I have 30+ resumes to look through for one role, I’m going to employ some seemingly harsh weeding out tactics.
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I suppose more broadly in job interviews these things do come down to arbitrary considerations (sometimes not, but sometimes yes). I’d venture to say, however, that weight is one that carries over into real life as well, with more than the usual amount of judgment! Just an observation anyhow
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“when, as an employer, I have 30+ resumes to look through for one role, I’m going to employ some seemingly harsh weeding out tactics.”
How can you tell? Do obese people type differently?
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Not cool but a reality and everyone makes judgements on person’s appearance, it’s not rocket science. Appearance is important and everyone judges one another on it even the sanctimonious like you Rick!
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Sanctimonious? It’s a little early in the morning for that one yet. I haven’t even had time to climb my moral high horse. Or get coffee.
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Rick, I know you guys do a good job of presenting the reports as they come to you.
I think what I was trying to say, aimed at the researchers, that if you do a study and come to your own single conclusion when there could be many others, but you’ve chosen to narrow your focus to just one interpretation, then you are doing a disservice to those that the study is about.
Maybe they did reach a lot of conclusions, but for whatever reason, only that one was reported on. But if anyone is actually serious about addressing the issue, then we need to know a spectrum of reasons.
I think I’m digging a hole here.
And talking in circles.
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Fair point! I’ll be watching this discussion with interest throughout the day
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Rick, I notice in all the photos ever taken at the Mamamia office there is not a lot of body diversity.
Are you guys hiding all the overweight staff in a room when the camera comes out for the weekly update?
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I think over the months you’ve seen every staff member who works here in one of the galleries here and there. Thankfully we don’t much care for what people look like, we hire on skill. (Have you seen how I dress for work most days?)
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