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Screen shot 2012 08 16 at 1.18.06 PM News: Measles outbreak. Read this fast.

Vaccination

 

 

 

There have been more than 40 reported cases of measles in Sydney’s south west this week with 10 affected people being taken to hospital.

A spokesperson for the South Western Sydney Public Health Unit has warned that all of those who have been hospitalised were not fully immunised against the disease.

The Herald Sun reports:

The majority of those affected have been school-aged children and babies under 12 months old. The Department of Education confirmed four high schools and a number of primary schools had circulated letters of warning to parents…

Meanwhile, Australian Doctor magazine has revealed the number of parental objections to vaccinations are at an all-time high. According to statistics collected from the Australian Childhood Immunisation Register, 30,882 parents have formally objected to their child being immunised.

Of the more than two million children on the register, more than 6000 have no vaccination history.

The risks of failing to immunise children against potentially deadly diseases has been well documented on Mamamia (here and here). But with the anti-vaccination movement apparently gaining ground, we thought it was about time we revisited Dr Rachael Dunlop’s post about the common myths about vaccination and why they’re wrong.

Please read it and share this post among your social network so we can work against the dangerous misinformation circulated by the (Anti) Australian Vaccination Network (AVN):

Myth 1: Vaccines cause autism.

No doubt you’ve heard this myth – it’s been around for some time now. In a nutshell, there is no solid scientific evidence for a link between vaccines and autism. And believe me, science has been looking for well over 14 years. The theory that vaccines cause autism was first suggested by Andrew Wakefield in 1998. Since then, Wakefield’s paper has been discredited and withdrawn from The Lancet and Wakefield has lost his medical licence for showing “callous disregard” for children’s welfare.

Since 1998 there have been countless large and comprehensive studies looking for a link between vaccines and autism, but the evidence keeps coming up negative. The largest study was done in Denmark and covered all children born from January 1991 through December 1998. A total of 537,303 children of which eighty-two percent were vaccinated for MMR were examined and there was no association between vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.

Further, in August 2011, an exhaustive review of the scientific literature by the Institute of Medicine in the US concluded that overall “few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines”. And when I say “exhaustive review”, I mean 12,000 peer-reviewed articles, covering eight different vaccines were pored over by a committee of 18 experts in the largest review of adverse events associated with vaccines since 1994. It was a thorough and herculean effort concluding that there is no causal relationship between vaccines and autism.

Myth 2: Vaccines contain mercury

Mercury was removed from all routine childhood vaccines in Australia in the year 2000 (with the exception of one type of HepB vaccine which contains trace amounts) and it was never in the MMR vaccine. Prior to 2000, thimerosal, an organomercury compound, was used in the manufacturing process of vaccines as a preservative. The process left only trace amounts in the finished product – you ingest more mercury when you eat a can of tuna than you would ever get from a vaccine. Also there are two types of mercury – methyl mercury is the scary environmental toxin that “bioaccumulates” in your body, and ethyl mercury the type found in thimerosal, which does not bioaccumulate.
If thimerosal was implicated in autism, you would expect a significant drop in cases after its removal. Instead the opposite is true – autism rates continue to rise.

Myth 3: Vaccines contain toxic ingredients

Look anywhere on the Internet and you’ll find long scary looking lists of chemicals that anti-vaccine advocates claim are present in vaccines. Things such as anti-freeze, formaldehyde, aluminium phosphate, human fetal tissue, monkey kidney and lung cells, and most famously mercury. They also claim vaccines cause diseases such as AIDS, asthma, autism, cancers, diabetes, leukemia, lupus, SIDS, the list goes on. Many of these claims are quite simply untrue. The rest, without exception, misrepresent the facts.

For example, some viruses are grown on cell lines in the laboratory that were obtained from aborted fetal tissue many years ago. When a virus is grown on cells like these, it is extensively purified and many steps later, prepared into a vaccine. To say there are aborted human fetus cells in the vaccine is a bit like saying there is dirt in apples since they were once grown on a tree that grew in dirt. It’s misleading, scaremongering and simply not true. As for formaldehyde, there are trace amounts of formaldehyde in vaccines but much less than what your body naturally produces everyday.

Some vaccines do contain tiny amounts of metals like aluminium which have been used for over 80 years to increase the effectiveness of the vaccine. These are known as “adjuvants” and work like a booster to kick start the immune system into making antibodies. But just as the “dose makes the poison”, the concentrations of these metals are so low as to not be harmful to the body. Similarly, small doses of paracetamol cure pain but large doses have been known to cause liver failure.

Myth 4: Vaccines have never been tested.

All vaccines currently available in Australia must pass stringent safety testing before being approved for use by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), which is our government body responsible for regulating pharmaceuticals. Multiple clinical trials for safety and effectiveness are also performed as part of the development process (which takes anywhere between 10 to 15 years, and many millions of dollars) and safety monitoring continues for as long as the vaccine is in use.

For example with the polio vaccine, two million kids were involved in the field trial which was conducted in the US in 1954. More recently, the safety of the new cervical cancer vaccines was studied in large-scale clinical trials involving more than 50,000 people before being licensed for use. Safety continues to be monitored after 35 million doses with the majority of side effects being fever, headache and other minor ailments.

Like any medical procedure there are risks associated with the use of vaccines. This was brought to light in 2010 when dozens of kids suffered high temperatures and convulsions following administration of the flu vaccine. The vaccine was immediately withdrawn from use and the government commenced an investigation.

When people claim that vaccines have “never been tested” they usually mean that they have not undergone randomized placebo controlled trials (RCTs). To do an RCT of a vaccine you would need to take two groups of kids, give one group the vaccine, and the other a placebo, then expose both groups to the disease to see which ones survive. Raise your hand if you can see the problem here…

Not only would such an experiment be unethical, it’s unnecessary. We have extensive evidence demonstrating the effectiveness of vaccines; the eradication of smallpox and the near-eradication of polio from the world are just two examples.

Myth 5: Vaccines don’t work because children who are vaccinated can still get the disease.

No vaccine is 100% effective, and since everybody’s physiology is different, not everyone will develop immunity to the same degree; a vaccine is not a force field. But while you can still breathe in a virus or pick up bacteria off a door handle, the seriousness of the disease will be significantly reduced if you have been vaccinated. In the case of pertussis or whooping cough, severe complications such as seizures and pneumonia occur almost exclusively in unvaccinated people and one in every 200 babies who contract the disease will die.

Also, vaccine-induced and naturally acquired immunity fades over time. Notably, immunity from the whooping cough is not lifelong and infected adults, including child care workers and early years professionals, may be passing the infection on to children. This is why it is so important to get boosters if you are around young kids – especially those who are too young to be vaccinated. If you’re a parent make sure you, the grandparents, and other relatives and friends have boosters before they get to meet baby. Talk to your GP for advice on pertussis boosters (which are free until June 2012 in Victoria).

Myth 6: Improved living standards, not vaccination have reduced disease.

The three most significant factors in the reduction of infectious disease have been clean water, sewerage systems, and vaccination. But even in isolation, vaccination has made a huge dent in reducing rates of disease. Following the introduction of the national meningococcal C immunisation program in January 2003, the number of cases decreased by 39% while numbers of people admitted to hospital with the disease was down by 47%. When the Haemophilus influenzae type B (Hib) vaccination was introduced into Australia in 1992 there was a 94% reduction in cases in children under the age of five (the most frequent illnesses caused by Hib are meningitis, septicemia and pneumonia). Yet living conditions in Australia have changed only marginally since 1992 or 2003. Vaccines have also significantly reduced suffering from the complications of infectious disease. Whilst mortality from polio was less than twenty percent, complications such as paralysis, skeletal deformities, and prolonged immobility during confinement in an iron lung caused significant suffering, all of which were eliminated by widespread vaccination.

Myth 7: Infectious diseases are not serious; children are meant to get them.

Just because they’re called “childhood diseases” doesn’t mean it’s okay for kids to get them and neither are they necessarily benign. Let’s take a look at whooping cough as an example, since Australia has been the grips of an epidemic for several years now.

Whooping cough is much more than “just a bad cough”. Kids often turn blue from lack of oxygen during coughing fits, they may vomit after severe attacks, and even fracture ribs. There is no cure for whooping cough – antibiotics are given to help stop the transmission to others – you just have to hope your immune system can fight it. Severe complications such as pneumonia and brain damage occur almost exclusively in unvaccinated people and in babies under 6 months of age the symptoms can be severe or life threatening. Whooping cough is also known as the 100-day cough making it a chronic and potentially fatal disease.

If you still think infectious diseases are harmless, wander through your local cemetery one day and note how many children died from diseases that we no longer see in society today – stamped out largely due to mass vaccination. Some of us are old enough to remember the images of children in iron lungs and calipers during the scourge of polio, which was wiped out by vaccination.

Myth 8: Vaccines cause or spread the diseases they are supposed to prevent.

Experiencing a slight temperature and/or a sore arm after getting a vaccine is actually a good thing. While some people misinterpret this as “getting the flu after the flu vaccine” it simply indicates that your immune system is responding. Vaccines work by priming your immune system with a part of the disease, usually inactivated particles or a fraction of the organism, so that it can make antibodies. This means next time you come across the disease in the environment your body is ready with an arsenal of antibodies to attack it before it can make you really sick.

Vaccines are not 100% safe – no medical intervention is without risk – and mistakes do happen. In the 1950s in America there was a spate of cases of polio caused by the vaccine, but this was due to a mistake in the manufacturing process and was quickly corrected. Regulations, monitoring and quality control has greatly increased since that time, meaning incidents such as this are very unlikely to be repeated. The risks associated with the disease greatly outweigh the risk from a vaccine.

Myth 9: My child’s immune system will be overwhelmed.

Some parents worry that vaccines weaken or overwhelm the immune system, particularly when given to babies or when multiple vaccines are given at the same time. Children are exposed to many foreign particles on a daily basis through activities such as routine eating, drinking and playing and vaccines contain only a tiny number in comparison to what children encounter every day in their environment. The amount of immune challenges that children fight every day (2,000 — 6,000) is significantly greater than the number of antigens in any combination of vaccines (about 150 for the entire vaccination schedule).

More information: This is certainly not an exhaustive list of myths surrounding vaccination. If you’d like to know more, the following sources contain accurate and easy to read information for parents on vaccination including myths, misconceptions and information about the diseases.

Chain of Protection is an initiative of The National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance (NCIRS) which contains lots of vaccine information, videos and more.

The NCIRS also produce the MMR Decision Aid which is a step-by-step guide to the MMR.

A great general resource for parents wanting to know more about vaccination can be found in the Australian Government publication; Understanding Childhood Immunisation Booklet (highly recommended)

General questions about vaccination can be found on the Australian Governments website; Frequently asked Questions About Immunisation

For more detailed information about vaccines, with references to scientific studies, see the Australian Government’s Handbook; Immunisation Myths and Realities, Responding to Arguments about Immunisation

A complete schedule of the current vaccinations required under the National Immunisation Program can be found here.

Dr. Rachael Dunlop is a medical researcher, science communicator and campaigner for science-based medicine in Australia, with a special interest in the anti-vaccination movement and alternative medicine.   Now working in medical research she is currently focused on the environmental triggers for motor neuron disease with a special interest in toxins found in blue green algae.

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353 Comments so far

  1. pro choice

    I had 4 years of bleeding after the cervical cancer vax witch led to fertility problems I had to be on blood stopper the hole time or I would nearly bleed out I would wake with blood soked sheets and have to sit on the toilet till all clots had passed so I would call that a big reaction. I don’t vaccinate my kids after doing my research my first 2 are half done my third is vax free.

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  2. Sean campbell

    What happened to the little blue book? Vaccine check book
    I had to show the school My three sons had vaccination’s before they where excepted, It was great know all kids had been done, No child in that school ever became ill because of vaccination’s neither was there outbreak of a more then flu..
    What about Hospital staff, they get them constantly, I’m sure if something was wrong, hospitals across the country would be empty due to them all being sick.

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  3. shalon

    Kudos to Mamamia for raising awareness of the AVN – it is where I found out about the organisation for the first time. I agree that it is important to continue to debunk the myths around vaccination but I’d also like to see a stand against the government policy that allows conscientious objectors the same financial incentives as those parents who choose to vaccinate.

    The financial incentives take account of the reductions in the cost of the health system that vaccinated children provide. While it is all good and well for the government to acknowledge that vaccination is a personal decision made by parents (thus affording them conscientious objector status) the fact remains that their choice does not provide cost savings to the health system – so why on earth should they qualify for the same payments?

    Mamamia, it would be great if you could address this in future articles around vaccination. It is simply absurd that these parents have profited from their choice but that society has received no benefit, financial or otherwise.

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    • Anonymous

      I think if you have made a decision not to vaccinate your child because you believe it is in their best interests you are not going to change your mind so you can get a bit of welfare.

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      • shalon

        Exactly. So why offer it to them? If they make a choice which demonstrably does not contribute positively to the costs of the health system, why on earth do they qualify for a financial benefit?

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        • Anonymous

          The point is that if you are trying to encourage vaccination, this won’t help.

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          • shalon

            No, but these parents aren’t encouraged to vaccinate whatever the case. I’ll accept that money is not going to encourage them. However, we could save tens of thousands, perhaps even hundreds of thousands, of tax dollars by not giving them financial ‘rewards’ for not doing something that we want to encourage them to do in the first place.

            Perhaps this money could be invested in research for more effective treatment for diseases like measles and whooping cough. Whatever the case, why are we wasting tax payers money on these people when they fundamentally have not complied with the spirit of the financial incentive which is to reduce the costs of secondary care for childhood diseases that could have been prevented?

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      • Kris2040

        The Maternity Immunisation Allowance, and now the FBT thing that has replaced it is meant to be a financial incentive to get people to vaccinate their kids. Why should someone who chooses not to do so and hands in a conscientious objection form get that money? They haven’t done what the money is for!

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    • Lilah

      I am absolutelty flabbergasted that non-vaxxers can still receive financial incentives from centrelink. A friend of mine who has chosen not to vaccinate her baby was telling me how she was waiting on a letter from her doctor so she can lodge it with a form to centrelink so she can still receive her centrelink payments. I seriously thought she had lost the plot but after calling centrelink myself to double check what she was saying was correct I was left gobsmacked. When I questioned the guy from Centrelink about it he kept saying that it would be discrimination not to give people the freedom of choice. What????? they have made the choice NOT to vaccinate, why in hell are they receiving the same payments vaccinating families receive???? BTW I am pro-choice when it comes to vaccination I am just not pro-receiving benefits for something you have chosen not to do.

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    • Lilah

      Obviously the money to some anti-vaxxers is a big deal as I couldn’t imagine you would do all the paperwork if you really didn’t need it.

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  4. teaganjai

    i cant read this, but i got my vaccinations about ahhh, cant remember……..
    ohh yeah i think last year grade 8, i got like the swin flu and every thing, except for the technous (i think its spelt like that) but im getting that very soon!!! :p

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    • Faybian

      Its tetanus. You’ll also get vaccinated against diphtheria and whooping cough in one needle. Usually given in yr 10, or at age 15.

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  5. ravenpuff

    I just made sure I’ve got all my vaccinations for my 3 month trip to Cambodia. One of them made me super sick for about 3 days.

    I can safely say I’d go through it again if I had to because it’s a lot better than the alternative of hep A and Typhoid.

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  6. Alison

    I’ve only recently found this anti-vax world and I have some questions

    Which is a greater risk? Something going wrong from the immunisation or one of the diseases that it is trying to protect them from? Especially when you can’t protect them from the diseases when they have caught it.

    Where in this do we have a responsibility to those around us? Non immunised people don’t live in a bubble. People’s choice is affects more than just themselves.

    Some say that they will help their kids to have a healthy immune system rather than immunise. How do you do that? How do you know it’s strong enough?

    How do you gather the information to decide for yourself? From my limited reading, the anti-vaxers love a conspiracy and get a little nasty. I want the truth and to decide for myself but does that suit everyone?

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    • Faybian

      The greater risk is always with the “wild” strain of the disease. You may still get the disease, but it will be milder after vaccination.
      Yes, there is a risk of an adverse event, but they are very rare. I’ve seen 2 people post here about serious adverse events, but have seen only 1 myself, in the 7 years of vaccinating young kids. The side effects (fever, sore legs, lumps at injection site) are more common, but easily managed.
      There is no scientific evidence that a great immune system will help and I’m sure I will get shot down for this.
      If you read this post, someone posted a link, but I would reccomend the NHMRC website (it’s Australian), or the CDC website (US).

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    • Anonymous

      I actually struggled for years to get the right information for my child. I found the pro vaxers really nasty as I was not allowed to question, but then some of the anti vaxxers were just way too over the top… As a result, I have a few unanswered questions. I am confident at this point in saying that the vaccines are ok for some, and not ok for others. The problem with one size fits all just does cater for those children who have real dangers of reactions… My issue is that these problems can be avoided if we simply addressed them…Instead parents are ignored and made to feel like they are crazy. It takes an incredible amount of strength and courage to stand up against the status quo, but some parents are still compelled to keep asking questions…..

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      • Anon 2

        Well said, I have spent many years looking into vaccination, pros and cons, for my children. I feel like I’m stuck in the middle of an arguement of ‘which side’ is right. There are studies and facts that support vaccinating and that support not vaccinating, and all we are trying to do is make informed educated, responsible decisions and ignore the hype and aggression that seems to get in the way, from both sides.

        I’ve found this site…. ww.vaccinationdecisions.net… some interesting research to read.

        People need to be made aware of fact not hype, concerns not dismissed, but respectfully and truthfully addressed.

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        • kateinlondon

          This site is run by Judy Wilyman. A well known fierce anti-vaccinator and mate of the AVN. A more biased site you could not find. Serious nonsese, please do NOT use that site for ‘educated, responsible’ decision making.

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        • Susi

          You should always look into the background of even “official” looking websites. Who runs them, do they have affiliations with or backing from interested parties? You should also research where research papers come from rather than just believing them. Who wrote them? What are their qualifications? What was their sample size? And so on and so forth.

          In the end, if you are worried about it, you can get your doctor to do a test dose on your kid to check for adverse reactions before giving them the full dose.

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    • Another Alison

      As a media-literate society we all often feel obliged to not take what we’re told at face value, and to assume some body has an underlying agenda that doesn’t place our, or society’s, best interest first. Wanting to research is great, but working out what sources are trustworthy and independent can be tricky sometimes.

      So, for independent research (ie. don’t want to take the links above at face value, rely solely on .gov.au websites and don’t want just Google randomly) can I suggest you try your local library? Most public libraries subscribe to health resources (some of which can only be accessed from within the library) and the librarians can help point you to the best ones for your particular questions. Many libraries’ websites list freely available sites with reliable health resources.

      For medical research, which can be a bit jargony to read, try PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/) – a repository to provide access to gazillions of medical papers (despite the .gov domain it’s a repository, not a government ‘this is the policy’ site). Alternatively nearly everyone would consider the British Medical Journal a trusted source (www.bmj.com). For both these sources you’ll be able to access the full article sometimes and for other articles you can only read the abstract, but you’ll often get the gist of the study and the overall conclusion. Search for ‘vaccinations’ and ‘side effects’ or similar.

      Personally, when I first heard there might be a reason to question vaccines it didn’t take too much research to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweighed the risks (both in terms of the likelihood of side-effects/disease and the worst case scenarios of side-effects/disease). But people with questions need to feel able to reach their own conclusions and not just be shouted at from either side.

      Hope this helps!

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  7. Sad

    I tell you what saddens me the most? Is that a mother has shared her devastating story about her child suffering as a result of vaccines and none of you seem to care.

    Who cares that her child had seizures after the 4 month, and 6 month vaccines. Oh who cares about the fact that the doctors who supposidly knows so much about science kept on recommending that she vaccinates anyway. Of which led her to do the MMR, and bingo! another reaction, but this time left her baby permanently damaged!!!!

    The thing that disgusts me the most is that not one person on here has acknowledged the fact that her stupid doctor kept insisting on vaccinating even though this child had not one seziure, but TWO seizures….And the worst thing of all, is that none of you could care less about her child as long as your poor children are protected..,

    You all ignorantly claim unless a child has an allergy to the ingredients, than all should be vaccinated. But yet, not one parents I know has been asked of if any such allergy’s exist! The sad thing is, that its not even tested.

    And stop hiding behind the old we must do this for the immuno compromised arguemnt- You could care less about them, your simply using it as a means to bully others…

    Now, why are the immuno compromised more important than this chld who suffered? Please explain why this doctor kept claiming the vaccines are safe to this poor mother and poor child, when in fact it led to permanent brain damage? After all, doctors know more than us and we are supposed to trust them!

    Why does it not bother any of you that this has happened?

    If your going to play the high and mighty card, than at least pretend you care about those who suffered as a result of vaccines…

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    • Anonymous

      I can’t find a post here where a mother shared her story about her child having seizures after vaccinating? Where is it?

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    • Anonymous

      That’s the problem. They don’t actually believe that anyone has suffered as a result of vaccines. It didn’t happen to their kids so they don’t care. I had no idea the reactions vaccines could cause until it happened to my second child. My first child was fine. Thank god these people can’t force you to immunise.

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      • rudyroo

        oh sod off.
        My child reacted to vaccines. Real reactions…like seizures and dysphagia and a severe case of erythema multiforma. You might want to look them up. They are what we consider to be real adverse reactions, not like little ouchies on the arm.

        Did I turn bitter to the world of doctors and vaccinations? Did I drown in my guilt to the extent that I lost my common sense and started spouting conspiracy theories?
        NO!
        I just got on with life, with my daughters. And I thank science for vaccinations, and I thank those who do vaccinate. Because they protect my child, the one that reacted, from the disease she can’t be vaccinated against. If I had any more children, I would vaccinate them as well.

        So take your emotionally manipulative anonymous responses and do something useful for yourself and your children and get yourself sensibly educated.

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        • Anonymous

          I think the point is that this poor child did have several reactions and the doctor kept on insisting to continue vaccinating, until there was permanent damage…

          I do not think its about being angry at the world. In fact if you read her post you would see just how not angry she is. But in this particular woman has every right to be angry! Wouldn’t you? I know if I kept telling the doctor who I trusted that im scared abut these seizures but he/she kept insisting that it was ok, so I keep doing what they say until the child suffers a permanent injury., I would struggle with not feeling angry…

          Nevertheless I know for a fact that someone has accused this woman if being negligent because she chose t not vaccinate her other children….

          It sad that not many care about this poor woman’s suffering and her poor child…

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          • Rudyroo

            I’m not angry at her and her story. I’m angry at you! Seriously, you didn’t pick up on that? Nice try at deflection.
            Your statements of ‘they don’t actually believe anyone has suffered’. And ‘ so they don’t care’ is such primary school playground behaviour and totally offensive.

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            • Anonymous

              You certainly are angry. I reiterate, thank god people like you can’t force people like me to vaccinate. I know it makes you angry but there’s nothing you can do about it. Now it’s your turn to say something really mature again like sod off.

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        • Anonymous

          It is interesting that they claim 1 in 1 mill will suffer right? But We have now heard of 3 serious reactions in just this thread alone. How many people here would have actually read this post? 1000…2000……Maybe even 10000. But yet we have 3.

          Of course this can be put down to just coincidence.

          It is scary, as I have heard several parents say that the reactions were ignored and just considered “coincidence”..Now of course you will now say its because parents are confusing causation with correlation bla bla ba…But, it does still make me wonder..

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          • Kris2040

            Why do you think that 3 posts in a thread on the net disproves the statistic?

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            • Anonymous

              No of course not. that is why I said this can be just a coincidence. As of course it can be a coincidence. However, I know 4 people who also had a serious reaction. But again, that can be just coincidence….

              I still think it is worthy to consider. Your more than welcome to disagree :)

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            • Kris2040

              What do you consider a serious reaction?

              Bearing in mind that when you go to the jab clinic, you get a handout with the common, known reactions (like fever etc) and that you have to stay for a while following the jabs in case of a reaction.

              I think what you see with a three person “barrage” is people who believe they were wronged by vaccines, whether that’s the truth or not, and claiming to anyone who’ll listen that that is what happened to them.

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          • Rudyroo

            Thankfully statistical information isn’t based on heresay.

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            • Anonymous

              I guess your right. It certainly could be heresay. I agree!… I can only go by what I have also seen other families I know experience too and there are at least 4. And yes, that could be heresay.

              I guess everything on here would be considered heresay.But for your information, My friend has just finished her science degree and she told me how researchers are looking at forums etc for more information. That is interesting.

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          • Anonymous

            I still can’t find any post written by any mother about her child having seizures after vaccinating that Sad is referring to??

            So that leaves only one person claiming serious reaction as the second person along didn’t say anything about the reactions being serious.

            Anyway, my point is:
            1) Anyone can make anything up on here
            2) One persons definition of severe may not be the same as another persons definition of severe.

            That’s why we have statisticians to collect data.

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            • Anonymous

              I think you might be referring to me. My second child had a reaction. She become very unwell after what used to be called the triple antigen vaccine. She was fine in the morning, then after the vaccine came down with flu like symptoms. We didn’t connect it to the vaccine until it happened again with the second dose. That time she was hospitalised with pneumonia. The doctor suggested that it might be the whooping cough component of the vaccine. We decided not to give her the third dose. You may have made a different decision. I will continue to make decisions for my child that I think is in her best interest.

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    • Susi

      1. Where is that story? Can’t see it?
      2. If you as a parent feel that a particular doctor is wrong, you should always get a second opinion. You know your child best.
      3. It is possible to get test doses to check for adverse reactions before doing a full dose. If you are nervous, get a test dose for our child instead of just hysterically eschewing vaccination altogether.

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  8. Jackie

    & Meanwhile in Pakistan the Taliban Militants in the countries North East have outlawed immunisation, to the point that they attack & kill WHO workers. The result is of course horrible with children getting Poli & dying from utterly preventable diseases. The Taliban believe that immunisation is “anti-Islam” & are also wary of WHO because, apparently, the CIA used a fake immunisation program in its search for OBL.
    My point, rather long winded, sorry, can all the anti-vaxers go & live in Pakistan!!!
    Here is an ABC link with audio of the story:http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/radio/program/asia-pacific/militants-target-pakistans-polio-immunisation-program/982494

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    • Guest

      LOL that’s an awesome post :p

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  9. Alison

    Just wondering – how much do you think the Oprah episode with Jennie Garth and Holly I-forget-her-last-name from 21 Jump St from a couple of years ago has made the anti vax movement more mainstream?

    Like the success of Eat Pray Love, can some of the hysteria and misinformation be attributed to Oprah??

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  10. Anonymous

    “The world today has 6.8 billion people… that’s headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.” Bill Gates

    How does doing a “really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services” reduce population if vaccines are to prevent disease/illness, health care is to aid good health and reproductive health services are to assist in healthy reproduction?

    The only way that the population can be reduced is if vaccines were toxic and caused illness/disease (which has occurred), health care was reduced or non-existent (which has also occurred with longer waiting periods, less services/beds as well as incorrect diagnosis causing death on several known occasions) and some sort of lack of reproductive health service or false information given to expected mothers and mothers of infants in relation to their expected child or newborn.

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    • Anonymous

      I don’t agree. Maybe some third world parents have a lot of kids because they don’t necessarily expect them all to survive. With better health care available they would be more confident that their children would live to adulthood and therefore be less likely to have large families. Reproductive health services are also about providing contraception as I’m sure you’re well aware.

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    • CBR

      Sorry, but you’re a moron. As Anon said below, increased vaccination rates reduces the infant and child mortality rate, which means fewer children to guarantee that at least one reaches adulthood. This allows, particularly, women to get educated, further lowering the birthrate.

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    • rudyroo

      Seriously?

      Perhaps you need to educate yourself (in a real trusted authentic way) about the plight of people in third world countries.
      You naivety (or ignorance) coupled with your obstinance (or arrogance) offends me.

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    • shalon

      Bill Gates should also have mentioned reducing economic and social inequality and improving education. They are factors in over-population. What he did mean is that improved health care (including vaccination rates) and reproductive services (including around not reproducing i.e. family planning) lead to better opportunities for families in the third world to put and keep their children in education and eventually go on to find work.

      Fertility (as in the number of children one has) generally decreases with both higher levels of education and higher socio-economic status – and the two of those are linked.

      You vaccinate children, you have improved public health. With improved public health, more people can be educated. The more they are educated, the better their employability and the fewer children they are likely to have. Thus reducing population.

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      • Kris2040

        I am pretty sure he has mentioned that before. Or just assumed that people would understand this, rather than the anti-vaxers cherry-picking bits of what he said and screeching about his sanctioned murdering of babies.
        I don’t understand how people can keep arguing such a flimsy “point” when all it takes is putting it back in the context of the whole speech and someone explaining it in a fairly elementary manner to blow it away.

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  11. Joy

    Why don’t they just do the rules in childcare and schools like they do for animals? My dogs can’t go the kennel without a vaccination certificate. Should be the same for kids.

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    • zepgirl

      I imagine it’s because there are a very small number of children who have genuine medical reasons for being unable to be vaccinated (which would be really awful, can you imagine the fear you’d feel as a parent if your kid really, absolutely can’t be vaccinated against something?), and you can’t discriminate against them.

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    • Anonymous

      This line of thought has several problems.

      1. Because they’re human beings not animals.

      2. Because medical procedures should never be preformed against someone’s will or without their consent (except in emergencies). That was what the Nazis did to the Jews and others. Do you really want to go there?

      3. 90% of adults do not have current immunisation for some diseases. Whooping cough is a BIG one and according to Dr Rachael Dunlop (the expert who wrote the myths post quoted above) it is the unimmunised adults who are passing it onto the babies are can’t yet be vaccinated. Do you want to implement the same ‘no go’ rules for all those adults?

      4. If governments made it compulsory and when things go wrong, as they sometimes will, governments would then also become liable. And that’s my money and your money they’ll be using to foot the legal bill (and that will be huge) and any damages awarded by the courts should they lose (and that will be more than huge). Is this how you want your tax money spent?

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      • Joy

        How did we go from dog kennels to Nazis? :)

        To address your points:
        1 – Both are living creatures. So same ideals apply.
        2 – People would still have a choice not to vaccinate but that same choice would just exclude them from going to certain places. It would remain a choice.
        3 – Is a very good point. Is something that should be addressed.
        4 – Unlikely. But that’s what insurances are for. Better than anyone ending up dead.

        Honestly – I do think it’s a personal choice if choose not to vaccinate. But if you choose to do so you have to appreciate it needs to come with certain limitations because unwittingly your choice can affect others. Like smoking in workplaces used to be.

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      • Melsie

        Did you know that human beings ARE animals?

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    • Anonymous

      Great idea. And then if they get sick, we can get them put down, you know, like you would with your dogs.

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  12. Guest

    Nutwad? Oh aren’t we mature now with namecalling. FYI the mother has the kids 95% of the time so maybe you should call her a “nutwad”

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  13. Anonymous

    Here’s an excellent book for those looking for more information.

    Vaccine Safety Manual for Concerned Families and Health Practitioners

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  14. Guest

    Is this thing working yet?

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  15. Anonymous

    Here are a couple of good books for anyone looking for information.

    Vaccine Safety Manual for Concerned Families and Health Practitioners

    Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective

    http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Safety-Concerned-Families-Practitioners/dp/1881217353

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  16. faina

    i know more people woth vaccine injured children, then i know with cancer. All those “myths” that you are discrediting have truth in them. Keep hiding your head in the sand, Mia!

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    • Guest

      These “vaccine injured” children you know – has a medical doctor actually confirmed that whatever is wrong with them is a result of a vaccine or is that just your non-expert speculation that is not backed by any expertise?

      I personally know 1 child that had a bad reaction to one vaccine. And pretty much everyone I know vaccinates their kids with no other negative effects.

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    • rudyroo

      Faina,
      Rubbish. i don’t believe you for a second.
      Unless you use the ‘vaccine injured’ term very very very loosely.

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      • Kris2040

        Man, I still giggle at someone calling their kid vaccine damaged because they had a bump on their arm at the vaccine site that hadn’t gone away!

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        • rudyroo

          I should giggle too Kris, but geez, blatant over dramatising shits me…so does stubborn ignorance.
          Plus as a mother of a child who had REAL adverse reactions to a couple of vaccinations I find it offensive.

          Disclaimer: I know more people with cancer than those with ‘vaccine injuries’.
          I still believe in vaccinations despite having a child who has had some nasty adverse reactions. See, it can be done.

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          • Kris2040

            Oh no doubt it’s absolutely offensive to anyone with real problems with reactions. But I remember this woman posting this big long cry about how her kid would never be the same again, blah blah blah, and it was all over the jab site staying hard!
            This is why so many of us are so sceptical, because you have someone with an actual reaction, but people deny their kids that protection based on a vibe. It must do your head in, rudy!

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            • Rudyroo

              Lol, Kris. You got it in one.

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  17. From one sheep to another...

    We are failing to mention the money made by the companies who make the medications and antibiotics to treat these illnesses! Maybe these companies are behind all the anti vax campaigns because if we eradicate these illnesses the production of these meds would be no longer required and in turn create less profit.

    I don’t really believe that by the way, but it’s just as ridiculous as people saying that the producers of vaccines are dummying their studies to say they do not cause autism and other disabilities/illnesses in children because they want to protect their income. I work in the medical field, illness is our livelihood however, that does not mean we get excited when we see unwell people we want to help them and a perk is to make money in the process. People make out that there are these “dr evil” type who are sitting there looking for ways to spread autism throughout the world and make billions in the process. Now for me, I have never paid for vaccinations for my children it is through the council maternal health scheme. And knowing that the government like to keep their money to line their own pockets I would be interested to know why the government would fund research into vaccinations that they are essentially paying to be administered (albeit out of tax payers money) and hide awful truths about what side effects they really do have and in turn create more financial strain on an already strained health system!

    I just wonder how these anti vaxers will feel if they are one of the unlucky ones who has an infant contract whooping cough and sadly die because they were not vaccinated through their own choice? Would you be able to live with yourself? Would you be able to live with knowing that an under 8 week old baby who was too young to be immunised by their own parents as yet, died from whooping cough they contracted from your child who you chose to not immunise? How would you feel about another parent whose child had an illness that they could have easily been immunised against but chose otherwise, and then your unimmunised child caught that illness and died or was left with life altering disabilities because of it? And I’m serious, can any of the anti vaxers answer these questions for me because I do often wonder as I know I could never forgive myself if I was the cause of another child’s death, let alone my own child.

    And a final question, with no disrespect intended to anyone with an autistic child as my heart truly goes out to you. Is there any proof that your child would not have been autistic with or without vaccinations? And I ask in all sincerity, not in an attacking way. I am genuinely curious as to what the proof is that a child considered to have been made autistic by a vaccination, would not have been autistic all along? I ask because autism is generally not picked up until childhood, sometimes pre teen (depending on the spectrum). Are there no cases of autism reported in unvaccinated children?

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  18. Merri

    I’m sorry Mia but your stand against the anti-vaxers is a fight you’re not going to win. Campbelltown is a multi-cultural area and many new Australians don’t believe in vaccination. As a country that embraces multi-culturalism and religious freedom, we have to accept that some cultures consider our medical and social norms to be ‘filth.’

    “Since there is a natural affinity between kufr and filth (Najaasat), it is not at all surprising to learn of the filthy and impure practises employed by the kufr western medical establishment. The emphasis of the kuffaar is always on the employment of evil, impure and haraam methods and agencies.”

    It’s probably not appropriate to post the link but any search of ‘Muslims and immunisation’ will lead you to documents that are enlightening and well worth a read.

    In a progressive society where diversity is embraced, it’s important to be respectful of all beliefs. Some of the comments from your readers show an ignorance that borders on hate speech.

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    • Katie

      Merri, this is an interesting point of view but it is worth noting that Muslims in general are most certainly NOT anti-vaccination. I understand that you are attempting to make readers aware of the various cultural and religious stances on this issue but I feel that this comment is incredibly misleading.
      In actual fact, the Koran does not, in any way, advise against taking measures to protect from illness or death. As with any religious text it is somewhat open to interpretation and as such, some Muslims will take quotes such as the one you provided to mean that immunisation is haram, however the majority will do whatever they possibly can to ensure the health and safety of their children.

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      • zepgirl

        Yeah, I’ve got to agree. I’ve given hundreds of vaccinations to children (Hep B mostly), lots of them have Muslim parents and I’ve never come across anyone raising an objection on religious grounds. Not to say that it doesn’t happen of course, but I was working in Melbourne’s second largest maternity hospital, where 400 (I think) babies are born each year, and it’s never come up.

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        • Faybian

          Community health in Brisbane with large percentage of refugees etc due to cheap housing. Haven’t seen one refuse immunisation yet.

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    • spirulinas

      I’m sorry, ‘New Australians’? Are you still in the 90s?

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  19. Jade

    My nearly 4 year old son is fully immunised, and this year was diagnosed with Autistic Disorder.

    On Monday this week, my 18 month old, Neuro-Typical son had his 18 month immunisations.

    I would actually have grounds to raise an objection, but there’s not a hope in hell I would.

    I think believing these myths is a sign of complete laziness. The arguments these fools at the ‘Australian Vaccination Network’ put forward, need to be balanced. If you choose to be concerned about their dribble, then back yourself with the other side of the argument. Do some PROPER research, so you can make a well informed decision.

    I think so many people think their GP has given them the ‘pro’ side of the argument, then they read the AVN website, and consider themselves well researched.

    Here’s a tip, don’t take the ‘pro’ side of the argument from your GP, and don’t take the ‘con’ side from the AVN. Go to the library, and read. Jump on Google, and read. Do your OWN research. I can’t see how you could NOT immunise once you are reasonably well read on this.

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    • B

      Jade, I had never heard of the AVN until I started reading some of the articles on this site. I vaccinated my children but not without trepidation. The only reason for this was because I had heard that other countries had vaccine injury compensation programs, which Australia does not. The more I questioned my GP and other doctors about this the more I was brushed off. When a doctor doesn’t answer my questions which are perfectly valid, or treats me with a condescending attitude, then of course I wonder why they won’t answer. I don’t believe in any of the conspiracy theories of big pharma or a direct link between vaccines and autism, but to say that vaccines do not cause real and lasting injury is a fallacy (for example, part of the conditions of the US vaccine comp program state that the injury must have lasted at least 6 months or longer). Roughly 3000 cases since 1989 have been paid out in the US for vaccine injury and roughly 9000 cases (mostly autism cases) have been dismissed.
      We then have the case of the Italian court recently awarding a large sum of money to a family for a direct link between autism and the MMR vaccine.
      People are not bad or negligent in most cases. They are confused and scared of harming their children because they don’t receive clear and honest answers from their GP.

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  20. Anonymous

    I just don’t know what to say to some of the anti-vaccinate comments of this article. As a doctor, I have met parents who dont vaccinate their kids, and no matter how long I spend trying to explain pros vs. con, scientific basis of vaccinations etc…parents remain adamant that they are ‘informed by other sources’ and ‘will not change their minds’ and tell me to stop being so resistant to their decisions.

    So I have come to a conclusion that one cannot persuade anti-vaccinators to change their minds, because their minds are already somehow ‘made up’ by youtube videos and non-medical experts out there.

    Why?? Why do you trust those people rather than your own doctor?? Who has dedicated their entire lives studying science, and medicine, have their patient’s best interests in mind.

    I grew up in Vietnam where we couldn’t AFFORD vaccines. The debate wasn’t ‘injecting toxins into our kids’, the debate was ‘the township only has 20 vaccines, how do I make sure my kid is one of them’!

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  21. iamevilcupcake

    Let’s be honest here. There is a possibility of an adverse affect from immunisation. Just like there is a possibility of being hit by a car as a pedestrian. The possibility of being hijacked on a plane. The possibility of dying in a car accident.

    Just because in life there are all these “possibilities” of death doesn’t mean we stop walking, or flying or driving a car.

    Just like immunisation. Even though there is the slightest possibility of an injury or worse, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t do it. Especially as non immunisation also affects those around you.

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  22. Anonymous

    I think the main reason people choose not to vaccinate has nothing to do with the myths in the article, but rather that they feel extended breastfeeding and proper nutrition provides all the necessary components for developing a strong, resistant immune system. I do vaccinate. I understand my social responsibility and the benefits, but I’ve taken a leaf out of the book of other developed countries and taken into account that breastfeeding does pass on immunity from diseases that the mother has developed a resistance to, and in doing so I made a choice to vaccinate once breastfeeding had finished. The benefits of exclusive breastfeeding for at least 6 months on the health system should be sold mainstream through our Dr’s rather than just using scare tactics to increase vaccination percentages. I read a statistic recently which stated that only 16% of Australian mums breastfeed exclusively for 6 months. That is an alarmingly low number. But I personally would never call or think of a mum who puts their baby on the bottle from birth an idiot or extend any other insult. 

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    • Jen

      Immunity to whooping cough doesn’t get passed through to the child :(

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    • Anon

      That is correct, immunity to whooping cough, measles, poliio dont get passed through The immunity passed through breast mil are generic immunoglobulins, typically IgA, IgG, those antibodies have an ability to recognise some infective receptors but not all specific receptors who have the ability to cause these serious conditions.

      Breastfeeding cannot replace vaccines.

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    • Shaezy

      I’ll not dispute the benefits of exclusive breastfeeding, however please remember that breastfeeding does NOT pass on immunity to Pertussis/Whooping Cough. And tiny babies are the most at risk.

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    • Lulu

      “breastfeeding does pass on immunity from diseases that the mother has developed a resistance to”

      Can you explain the reduction of mortality from vaccinatable diseases which has coincided both with an increase in vaccination & a decrease in length of breast-feeding?

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      • Kris2040

        Big pHARMA. And chemtrails. But mostly chemtrails.

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    • Mia

      Oh my lord. Seriously?

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  23. Rara

    I do not understand this mentality that drug companies are in it to make money so therefore they are completely evil. Yes, of course they are there to make money. R and D costs a lot of money and they have profits to make on top of that, but it does not follow that they are evil and will market products they know are unsafe in order to do so.

    I am a teacher, I believe in education, but guess what I do it for money too. Does that make me evil because although doing something positive I also do it for profit? My mother was a social worker, she did good and also received a wage – does that make her evil?

    Just because people and companies do make a living from something does not mean that they operate without any regard for morals, ethics and standards. There are also external agencies that need to approve medications before they can be made available to the public. There are many checks and balances in place.

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    • Amandarose

      Big Pharma gets bad press because the ethics are often poor.- No so much with covering up side effects rather dodgy marketing with G.P’s and promoting drugs for things they are not approved for( one example that comes to mind is Seroquel and antipsychotic being promoted as a sleeping aid)
      So to the public they do get mistrusted who don’t fully understand why they are being sued.

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    • Anonymous

      “checks and balances” paid for and controlled by those being checked! Pure example of this is the way the “Heart Foundation Aprroved” tick has been literally plastered on anything and everything from grated cheese to McDonalds food (if you call it food).

      people working for companies don’t know what’s going on above them but simply just do their job unaware the bad ethics/morals of those they work for. I don’t blame ordinary men and women that work for these companies/organisations for anything but once they know (wake up to) what’s going on they get out in many instances and become whistleblowers so to speak. Then the story gets drowned out by other news so the general population in most instances either don’t notice it or forget it shortly after.

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    • Anonymous

      Rara, I don’t think it’s a case that people think drug companies are in it to make money and THEREFORE they’re evil. I think it’s more the case that drug companies are more interested in making money than being concerned with the health of people who use their products AND they’re evil.

      Perhaps you’d be interested in what Marcia Angell, M.D has to say about drug companies. She was the editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of medicine and she currently is a Senior Lecturer in the Department of Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School. I think she probably believes in education too.

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  24. Nadia

    People not immunising their children makes me seethe! I see part of my job as a mother is to protect my children as best I can from known and obvious dangers. That includes immunising them against diseases that could KILL them. Those who don’t immunise your kids – how can you not see that? There’s risk in everything we do, every single day. When it comes to our kids, those who depend entirely on us, aren’t we supposed to minimise their risk to danger? To me, that’s what immunisation achieves. I just can’t see how not immunising your child could ever be what’s best for them.

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    • Anonymous

      Hi Nadia (love your name) – are all your immunisations up-to-date? How are your husband’s? Your extended families with whom you have contact – are all their immunisations up to date? Friends with whom you have contact – are all their immunisations up to date?

      I’ll bet they’re all not (do they make you seethe too). Because 90% of Australian adults do not have immunity for a range of diseases. And it’s these unimmunised adults who are passing things onto babies too young to be immunised.

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  25. Amandarose

    Measles is one of those imunisations it is really clueless to avoid. With excellent results and decades of experience it’s a no brainier. And 10 of 40 hospitalised- seriously scary.

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  26. Sarah Hill

    It’s amazing to me how mean and nasty the majority of comments are. We are all doing what we see is the best for our kids and we are all entitled to do what we feel is best. I can see both sides of the argument. Injecting toxins into little bubs just doesn’t feel right although outbreaks of diseases that can lead to death doesn’t feel right. It’s picking the best of the two evils.

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    • trixie melodian

      “Injecting toxins into little bubs just doesn’t feel right”

      See Myth 3

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      • faina

        it is not a myth. Go to the websites of vaccine manufacturers and look up the ingredients

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        • Kris2040

          I’m no scientist, and even I can understand that the dose makes the toxin.
          Do you avoid dihydrogen monoxide? That can be one nasty toxin!

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    • Guest

      Well if you want to put it that way, then injecting toxins certainly sounds like a lesser evil than death!

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  27. Anonymous

    Vaccines do cause long term health problems as well as serious immediate problems occasionally and even death…FACT! Not myth or conspiracy theory! The whole “conspiracy theory” tag was created so that the sleeping sheep (majority of the population) will believe what the “system” tells you through TV/media/government because they don’t want people to realise that they’ve been lied to and deceived by false information, fabricated science/research and just fear mongering in general on a mass scale of extreme proportions. It’s time to wake up and turn the TV off and stop believing what the media/tv/government says and for those that want to bring climate change/global warming into this discussion…don’t go there because that has also been “proven” to be a farce but not put through mainstream media because media is controlled by big corps (including pharma) so they will not allow anything factual to be publicized which is against their program/agenda. Don’t believe me but instead start thinking for yourself and do your own research rather than believing everything channelled into your head throuh the box or other mainstream media sources and government! They lie because they’re paid and contolled/told to lie like puppets on a string to keep you in a state of fear and unawareness of the truth! It’s all about controlling the population in every which way and keeping you hypnotized and even if you get the slightest feeling to disagree they come back with something to convince you they know what’s best for you. Vaccines are toxic and not even required by any law that prevents a child from education just like Census isn’t mandatory but they say it is to scare you into filling it out. There’s nowhere on the form that says you “MUST” complete the form by law or face penalties but instead it clears “asks” that you “co-operate” by completing the form… it’s all about threatening people with a penalty (that doesn’t exist) for non-compliance which keeps the majority doing what they WANT you to do. Vaccines like many other things forced onto the population (such as fluoridated water) are toxic and damaging to one’s health more than they will ever be of any benefit. Oh and another one you don’t know about … fluoride… good for you and essential for good oral hygiene…another lie proven and it’s dangers also proven..fact… A way you can better understand how you’re being forced into taking toxins that cause health problems is by looking at another toxic chemical Aspartime (951) sweetener. As now the majority are aware of the dangers and health concerns of this sweetener they put it in ordinary sugar drinks/foods without even labelling or telling you…go pickup a packet of Juicyfruit chewing gum or any of the P&N soft drink range (Orange Crush, Cedar Creaming Soda, Pub Squash or Lido lemonade) and look at the ingredients and you will find that what is an ordinary gum/drink using sugar also now has Aspartime (951/961) put in it! Why would a sugar food/drink have sweetener in it when it already has sugar you ask? Only one reason…to harm you against your knowledge! Like I said… research Agenda 21 or NWO and you might start to understand why a lot of things are going on and vaccines are a BIG PART of it as Bill Gates sees it as a means of population reduction. That’s weird…how does a vaccine (if it’s purpose is to prevent disease/illness) help to reduce a population? Are you waking up a little? I have 8 and 4 yr old sons and sadly I’m divorced and have little power or control over their vaccination but if you have the power then do your research and don’t believe the tv/government for your information. My 4.5 yr old son is very under-developed as far as speech goes aand behavioural/personality problems as far as I’m concerned and I wouldn’t be surprised if it could have something to do with the vaccines he’s been subjected to. It’s easy to see that the recent/new generation of youth are, pardon the term, dumber overall than past generations with massive problems in literacy/grammar and behaviour! Government and big corps controlling everything don’t want smart logical thinking and healthy generation of kids but instead want dumbed down robot like generation of kids and sick and disease stricken generations that if survive do nothing but what they’re told and programmed to do by the media/government!

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    • Ellabella

      Paragraphs are a wonderful thing if you want to come across clearly and reasonably to your audience. That is all.

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      • Anonymous

        Could this be a reason for the kids under developed speech? I’m so getting this post deleted!

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        • Anonymous

          Wow – you have that power?

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      • Agreed!

        Ellabella exactly, love it! (the thumbs up button has disappeared for now)

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      • spirulinas

        I agree! And so is avoiding terms like ‘sheep’ and ‘puppets’ if you want to me taken seriously in an argument :)

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        • zepgirl

          Oh I take the poster very seriously. I mean, they said ‘FACT’ in capital letters, therefore their evidence is indisputable. I’m pretty sure that’s how it works.

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        • Anonymous

          Oh sorry but I’m happy to say I was a sheep too before I investigated for myself all that there is to life and not just vaccines. Vaccines are just part of the massive “system” of problems with society in the present day.

          I have no problem admitting that I too was “asleep” and “hypnotized” so to speek by mainstream media and everything such as sports, media, fashion and entertainment until I realized that all that rubbish has nothing to do with making you truly happy but merely distractions used to make you spend money competing with one another on a materialistic level and sidetrack you from what makes people truly happy which is love, family and friends.

          Instead the system has succeeded in destroying those 2 values in humanity and instead wants people butting heads with each other and fighting over who’s better than who or how you can outdo your fellow man/woman instead of loving one another regardless of race, colour or what you wear/own and how you look!

          Puppets? Maybe grow up and accept that rather than keeping your head in the sand. Politicians promise this and promise that and maybe even believe they want to do what they say but find out when they get in office that they have no say and are merely told/instructed what they must do. That’s why it doesn’t really matter who you vote for because both sides are controlled by higher ups (bankers). Having 2 parties sit there and debate over issues is just to make you believe there is a choice and it makes a difference who you vote for when in reality it doesn’t. The prime minister simply implemented the carbon tax irrespective of the country’s wishes and objection…just passed it through ..that is not democracy..that is dictatorship but all covered up and masked by saying it’s in the best interest of the country & it’s people but who decided that? The people? No…she did at gunpoint more or less!

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          • Tinytina

            Good lord, any wonder you are divorced love ?????

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          • Susi

            Wow. Just… Wow.

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    • Kris2040

      Its the chemtrails.

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      • Kris2040

        Pardon me.

        IT’S TEH CHEMTRAILS!!!111!!!!!!!!!!!

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        • Jane DJ

          LEVENTY BILLION CHEMTRAAAAILS EVERY DAY!! HERPITY! DERP!

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    • Contrary

      Ummmm you say do your own research but not to trust media…….confused how do you do your own research without researching documentaries, Internet studies, books.. They are all considered a media source, all research and studies done by other people so therefore your still just following what others are telling you….. Your rant contridicted itself several times over.

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      • Anonymous

        “mainstream media”

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      • Anonymous

        Don’t believe/watch “mainstream media” is what I said.

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        • Anonymous

          Yes and of course all non mainstream media must be correct.

          Anyone can post anything they want out there. I could say that seat belts are dangerous. I’m sure I could find some seat belt injured people out there, willing to tell their stories. I am sure I could also find “qualified” people to attest to danger of seat belts too, as there is always going to be people out there in any field whose opinions differ from the norm for one reason or another.

          After doing all that I’m sure a number of people could make the decision that seat belts are unsafe.

          Saying something doesn’t make it true. You need proof. And I’m sorry but there is NO proof that vaccinations cause more harm than good.

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    • Anonymous

      So people who don’t vaccinate don’t have an agenda? I love how the argument is always that all these governments have some evil agenda behind it all, but anti-vaxxers cannot see the agenda amongst their own. People who are the biggest in the world of anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theories earn a ton of money from it. So how come it’s OK for these people to earn big bucks but not corporations?

      The fact is, the risk of vaccines causing long term health problems, serious health problems or death is EXTREMELY rare. The risk of long term health problems, serious health problems or death from the illnesses themselves is FAR GREATER. Do the MATH!

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      • Anonymous

        “anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theories earn a ton of money from it”… Really? They make peanuts & you’ll find the biggest moneymaking corps are the likes of McDonalds and the banks who are both doing nothing positive for your wellbeing and/or happiness. McDonalds is making you sick and unhealthy and the banks have you wrapped around their little finger taking every hard earned penny that you have be it through lending, fees apart from conditioning you to believing everything you watch on mainstream TV/news which they pay for and permit only what they allow to be broadcasted or said through those sources.

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        • Anonymous

          Yes they do. Not all of them of course. I mean the successful ones. I know someone who started up a conspiracy theorist website and earns between $1000 to $7000 in PER DAY! So that’s $365,000 to $2,555,000 a year. Yes up to two MILLION a year. Yes sure there are costs to running a website, but it is very minimal. So all that money is his for the taking and shows that there is big money to be paid in this sector, if you know how to go about it.

          Meryl takes lots of donations and money for magazines that are never published. Yes of course there are costs in what she does, but she would profit a lot from all the money she gets from people.

          Not sure what McDonalds and banks have to do with vaccinations. You lost me there.

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          • Anonymous

            What’s the website? If it’s so popular that it’s earning that kind of money there should be no problem with naming it.

            Otherwise, I’m sorry but this tale of yours has zero credibility.

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            • Anonymous

              My tale has zero credibility but yours does? Thanks you’ve made your own point for you then. Your tale has zero credibility. :) I’m happy to accept that argument if you do too. :)

              I can also name the website, but have to go searching for it. I don’t follow it as I can’t stand all the stuff they write about.

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        • Ros

          Obviously you’ve never seen Joseph Mercola’s house! I’ve never seen a research scientist living in a house that big!

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      • Anonymous

        The risk of sustaining brain damage or death as a result of a vaccination may be as rare as you suggest. It might, hypothetically, be say 1 in a million or even 1 in 2 million, or even 1 in 4 million. That 1 child who ends up permanently brain damaged or dead is someone’s child. How about if it was your child? Would you be so cavalier then? Would you shrug your shoulders and comfort yourself with the fact that it’s rare and the vast majority of other children who have the same vaccine are fine?

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        • RIsk is everywhere

          You obviously have no understanding of risk at all. Nearly every choice you make in life has some risk associated with it. If I drive a car I could crash and die. If I walk across the road I could get hit by a car. If I eat food I could get food poisoning.

          Yes there is risk with vaccinations, but that risk is very minimal when you compare it to the risk of injury from the illness itself.

          For instance, there is a 1 in a million risk of developing Encephalitis or a severe allergic reaction from the MMR vaccine. Yes any death is horrible. And yes I wish there was no risk at all with vaccines and no one had to suffer this loss. Do you take the chance that your child will be that 1 in a million?

          If you don’t vaccinate then there is a greater chance your child will contract Measles, Mumps or Rebella and if they do there is:
          For Measles the risk of:
          Encephalitis(severe brain swelling): 1 in 1000
          Destruction of brain cells: 1 in 100,000
          Death: 1 in 1000

          So for every 1 million infected by measures, 1000 of them will develop Encephalitis (1000 times more likely than from the vaccination), 1000 of them will die and 10 with destruction of their brain cells.

          So for every one million people who receive the MMR vaccine, approximately 1 person will be harmed.

          For every one million people who contract Measles, approximately 2010 people will be harmed.

          The risk of harm from Mumps is even worse. For everyone one million people who contract Mumps, approximately 305,005 people will be harmed. Eeek!

          I’d rather take the option with the MUCH lower risk.

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          • Anonymous

            And you reckon I don’t understand risk? Excuse me while I roll around laughing hysterically. Honey, what a load of gibberish that is – you need to find a better website to copy your information from. There’s so much wrong with all those state you copied & pasted that I’m not even going to go there.

            However the one thing I will point out to you – for the benefit of anyone who mistakenly thinks there’s any comparable validity between the stats you’ve just pasted from whack-town website – and the rates of serious injury/death from vaccination, is this:

            You can’t compare the risk of injury from the disease directly with the risk of vaccination injury. The risk of injury from disease (for which a vaccine exists) is infinitesimally small because you first have to factor in the risk of actually getting the disease. Duh!

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            • Guest

              Actually the risk of getting whooping cough is not as rare as you think… Ask any emergency department employee!

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            • Rebecca

              Ask any teacher about the risk of your child getting one of these diseases. We see them in schools all the time

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            • Anonymous

              Whack -town website? These stats are on more than one website. All from data collected from vaccinations and illnesses.

              Of course you have to factor in the risk of getting the disease. :) That’s common sense. :)

              The risk of getting the disease goes up (of course) if you do not vaccinate. The more who do not vaccinate, the more the risk of getting the disease is. Hence, your idea to not vaccinate means more people would catch the disease and more people would be harmed (and killed) as a result. Duh!

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    • Rachm81

      Hmmmm – I wonder if you would still be sprouting the same rubbish if one of your kids was ever unfortunate enough to contract one of these debilitating illnesses?

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      • Anonymous

        And how about you? I wonder if you would still be so arrogant and ingorant if one of your kids was ever unfortunate enough to contract one of those debilitating reactions to a vaccine – like brain damage or death?

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        • *

          See above post from Risk is Everywhere.

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        • rachm81

          You’re right – id be utterly devastated. However as it has been mentioned countless times before, the risk of that happening is so minimal compared to the risk of my babe contracting whooping cough. I’d be interested to see the evidence stating that vaccination resulted in a serious brain injury. And I wonder if YOU’D be so arrogant if your un- immunized child infected a newborn with any of these diseases, resulting in that child’s death?

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          • Anonymous

            Well, I don’t actually have an un-immunised child, but for the sake of argument let’s pretend I do. If a newborn became infected with some disease it would be extremely unlikely that my child would be the one responsible for infecting the newborn.

            Dr Rachael Dunlop, the expert who wrote the 9 Myths has stated very clearly and unambiguously that it is the adults in the newborn’s life (parents, other family members, friends, other adults you come into contact with) who are the ones responsible for the vast majority of infections passed onto newborns too young to be vaccinated because 90% of adults do not have up to date vaccinations and therefore have no or limited immunity to these diseases.

            Are all your immunisations up to date, rachm81? How about your husband’s? Parents? Grandparents? Siblings, other relatives and friends who come into contact with your baby?

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            • Rachm81

              Wow. Yo managed to avoid answering my question at all! Seen as how you would prefer to avoid the I in a million chance of your child acquiring a vaccine related brain injury, for augments sake lets look at the much higher 10% chance of your child who is un-immunized (again, for arguments sake) infecting that newborn causing its death. Tell me – how would you feel?? And in answer to your question, yes my immediate family who have frequent contact with my child are all fully immunized. Unfortunately, there will always be idiots out there relying on YouTube to make informed decisions regarding the health of their children, and in doing so putting susceptible people at risk. But I don’t make a habit of associating with them so I’m reducing that risk. But you know what – your children are immunized, so going by your comments I guess at least your ex-wife had some brains.

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    • Faybian

      Bit of an essay there.
      You kinda gave yourself away when you accuse everyone of being sheep and of being hypnotized by the tv.
      Oh and you’re wrong about the census. It is mandatory. It’s just that the govt has traditionally been slack following up on the fines. I worked as a collector last year.
      Don’t start on the fluoride debate either. Go to your dentist and ask why they believe in it and why Qld had the highest rate of tooth decay until they introduced it. Ask them about the other aspects of health that poor dental health can affect.
      I actually found your long winded rant to be too diffuse to be effective. Focus!!

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      • Guest

        Do you know where fluoride comes from?

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        • Faybian

          Yes, a quick trip to the table of elements shows fluorine. Good enough?
          A lot of things are toxic in large enough quantities, but small quantities, can be beneficial. Eg fluoride and digitalis (digoxin).
          Anonymous, what’s with the genuine vs non genuine doctors?
          I will not be visiting you tube to watch a “genuine” doctor. I may see my own whose qualifications have helped save my life recently.
          Generally doctors recommend bottle feeding before lactation consultants do. We hear of it regularly. Anyway,a good filter will remove the elements from tap water, or if not you can buy bottled distiller water if you’re worried enough.
          If you think Australia’s the only country “distracted” by reality tv! Fashion etc, then you haven’t travelled far.

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          • Anonymous

            Filter does not remove fluoride nor does boiling as some might think and actually boiling increases concentration. Only reverse osmosis supposedly can remove fluorine/fluoride from tap water.

            I never said Australia was the “only” nation distracted by tv/news/media/fashion etc but nations have rallied and won the right to have it removed from water because they are more concerned about health issues than distractions mentioned so no need to put words in my mouth to make some sort of “invalid” point

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          • Anonymous

            No, it’s not good enough. There are an awful lot of chemical substances on the periodic table – would you like to be taking any or all of them in small doses in your drinking water? Would you mind if your children drank some of those substances?

            By the way, it’s a waste product from fertilizer production.

            The trouble with putting substances designed to elicit a medical effect in drinking water is that you have no control over the dose because you have no control over the amount of water each individual drinks. The more water you drink, the more you get of the substance. That concerns me with young children who drink a lot of water.

            There is credible scientific evidence that shows that fluoride does affect the thyroid. Can you show me any credible scientific evidence that fluoride in drinking water reduces cavities?

            And I believe in some countries they advise mothers not to use fluoridated tap water to make up formula for new babies. Do they do that here?

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            • Faybian

              I typed in a long response, but have deleted it. Obviously neither of us will change each others minds. I’m happy with my own knowledge, cause I actually work in health.
              I disagree with your conspiracy theories and am not going to play, you show me yours and I’ll show you mine.
              BTW, doctors here don’t worry about tap water in formula…

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      • Anonymous

        Go to youtube and you’ll find a long list of videos by genuine qualified professors or medical professionals that have come out with the truth about fluoride. Not paid for or fabricated doctors that the government uses to support the fluoridated water!

        That’s why genuine doctors recommend breastfeeding at any cost because formula uses not only tap water but boiled tap water which, whilst killing bacteria, actually increases fluoride concentration. Drinking 8 cups a day of water, as they preach, would be very beneficial to your body but not when it’s fluoridated water… That’s why many countries have had it removed but here in Australia everyone’s too distracted by reality tv, gameshows, fashion, celebrities or just asleep in general to make enough noise for the government to remove it!

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        • zepgirl

          Oh yeah, I go to Youtube for all the best medical advice.

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          • Anonymous

            LOL zepgirl. Love your response. :)

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            • Anonymous

              You both have no idea really have you? Go watch the nightly news for your daily dose of brainwash propoganda. The videos on youtube are interviews that have been done or taken from o/seas independant media or even fox etc but you’re so childish you have to try and ridicule a comment to discredit it. Oh that’s so smart and intelligent.

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    • Jen

      How about those long term health problems from polio???

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    • Lucinda

      “It’s easy to see that the recent/new generation of youth are, pardon the term, dumber overall than past generations with massive problems in literacy/grammar and behaviour!”

      Are you seriously blaming your own child’s developmental slowness on vaccines? Intelligence is genetic. Have you had a look at the example he is learning from lately? There are plenty of gifted children around, fully immunised. Our standards of literacy are improving not declining because we can diagnose learning difficulties earlier. Immunisation bears no relationship whatsoever.

      Not that there is any point explaining that to you. You clearly have a lack of inherent ability to understand such things. Enjoy living in your “conspiracy coma”.

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    • Anon

      I’m sorry, but FACT??? Just because it is in capital and you say so does not make FACT.

      InFACT, your FACTs are incorrect.

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      • zepgirl

        Oh man, I can’t stand that either. Screaming FACT across the internet doesn’t persuade anyone of anything, even if what you’re saying is indeed completely factual. All it looks like is that you’re trying to ram something down someone’s throat.

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    • From one sheep to another...

      Did it ever occur to you that there is the slightest possibility you are actually the sheep? Jumping on the band wagon of the what you have read and chosen to believe? It amazes me how people automatically accuse pro vacc parents as sheep when in fact we all get our information from somewhere… And we ALL read it in the media, unless you are saying you have gone out and performed your own scientific studies on these vaccinations? Basing your opinions on your own child having under developeded speech is nonsense! I have 4 children, all fully vaccinated and all speak incredibly well, including my 2 year old. The only child who we had a issue with is my third child who could be barely understood speech wise until after she started school. Do I think that is because of her vaccinations? Of course not, that is just her. She is a bit lazy in general, she prefers not to go to school because it is hard work and she doesn’t like to clean her room etc. So my opinion is that she was lazy with her speech, but guess what… She never had whooping cough, measles, polio, chicken pox etc.

      FACT: We could argue about who the sheep are all we like, but at the end of the day we all made a CHOICE about whether to vaccinate our children, or not, from a media outlet of some type. The AVN are using the media as their tool as much as anyone else. So you chose to believe all of the negative information regarding vaccination and dismiss the positive, I chose to believe the positive information and dismiss the negative… Please explain to how I am a sheep and you are not?

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      • zepgirl

        Oh, no no no, you can only be a sheep if the opinion you subscribe to is that of the majority of people! The ones who don’t have that same opinion, well they are, to the hilt, 100% wicked free thinkers.

        Just in case it’s not clear, I’m being facetious…

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        • Anonymous

          Vaccines are forced now and not optional. Why would you not have a choice to do what you want with your, or your children’s, body. Vaccines are only a part of the many number of things forced on society against their will but you believe what areport says on the news that there’s an outbreak because they put a few kids on the screen and say so. Did you see with your own eyes hundreds of children admitted all with some sort of illness or you just believe that box you’re hypnotized by? If tomorrow they said there’s a massive nationwide outbreak of something and the whole nation needs to get vaccinated for it you can go stand in line but rest assured I will not!

          Your body is designed to look after itself providing you feed it the right food/nutrients. Lookup “Food Matters” on youtube and watch it and while you’re at it look up the “Zeitgest” series of documentaries and even how the monetary system came about and the IMF/Central Bank. It’s all related and Bill Gates using vaccines for depopulation. How does a vaccine help depopulation if it’s “supposedly” to prevent disease?

          Here’s a test for you. Why not contact your local mainstream TV station and ask them to air one or all of these documentaries and see what happens and I guarantee you that they will not. They put only what they’re paid & told to air be it news reporting or programming.

          Oh there you go.. they call it programming for a reason!

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          • Kris2040

            if vaccines are forced and not optional, why is there an option to be a conscientious objector?

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          • From one sheep to another...

            Are you serious? So you are saying there is not an outbreak of measles? I am basing my thoughts on what I have read yes, what are you basing your thoughts that it is false on? No I did not see with my own eyes hundreds of children admitted, did you see that they were not? This is my point, why is it that we are sheep? You are basing your thoughts on scepticism!

            And are you seriously trying to tell us that eating the right foods will prevent us from getting illnesses such as whooping cough, polio, measles etc? That is probably the funniest thing I have heard all day! So all these parents who didn’t vaccinate and their child developed whooping cough (for example) should not feel bad that they didn’t vaccinate and instead feel bad that their diet must have been inadequate?

            To be honest your second paragraph bored me so I skimmed over it. And as for Bill Gates, he is not saying the vaccine will kill off the population he is saying the vaccines will decrease the need for large families. Here is a excerpt to clarify:

            “Despite this, Gates claims to operate on the seemingly paradoxical view that decreasing child mortality also decreases population growth. In response to LifeSiteNews.com’s query, the Gates Foundation – noting that Gates spoke at the TED event solely in a personal capacity - pointed out that Gates said in his 2009 Annual Letter that a “surprising but critical fact [is] that reducing the number of [infant] deaths actually reduces population growth.” 

            He continued by explaining the theory that parents will have more children when infant mortality is high, so as to ensure that several children will survive to take care of them as they grow old.

            “If you improve health in a society … surprisingly, population growth goes down,” Gates told CNN in 2008.  “And that’s because a parent needs to have some children survive into adulthood to take care of them when they’re old.”

            “And so, if they think having six children is what they need to do to have at least two survive, that’s what they’ll do. And amazingly, across the entire world, as health improves, then the population growth actually is reduced.”

            People say we need pro vaxxers need to educate ourselves, but seriously comments about Bill Gates (such as your above) are really not helping your cause!

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          • Faybian

            So the fact that those of us who work in health care and see people with vaccine preventable diseases means nothing???

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            • Kris2040

              Actors. Paid by Big Pharma and Bill Gates. We’re all being duuuuuuuuuuuuuuppped!!!11!2!!1@!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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          • Rudyroo

            Oh anonymous, you truly are ridiculous.

            I have cared for a ward full of whooping cough children and babies some years ago. One of the saddest hardest things I’ve had to do. It was my eyes that saw them, my hands that held them, my ears that heard them.
            You, anonymous, in your delusional ignorant mindset, truly need one huge wake up call.

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      • Anonymous

        I actually believe more than anything my child’s development is in most part due to the lack of effort by the mother since we separated when the child was 1.5 yrs old as my older son told me that she never did flash cards and wouldn’t put any learning vids like baby einstein on for the then 1.5 yr old. Then at 3.5 and still in nappies with very little speech panic mode kicked in and she put him in child care to get him talking. He’s also very underweight and wasn’t eating much until recently but still on many occasions doesn’t eat much I’ve been told by my 8yr old when with the mother though eats well with me when I have them 1 day a week!

        I don’t “believe” anything from anywhere be it mainstream or alternative media but instead I assess what is credible and after gathering all the information presented I decide what’s truth or not. I don’t just believe anything I read/hear/see as you put it but I do ignore everything that I’ve previously been told my whole life and use my own mind and think for myself to decide what is true or not and not what some person of “supposed” authority says just because they are also “supposedly” qualified or a politician or whatever. Did you ever notice politician come out of nowhere on many occasions and never heard of before they mysteriously appear as a new party leader? Why? It is because they are hand picked by higher ups to follow instructions laid out to them much like musicians and actors who don’t write the music or movies they are chosen for performing.

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        • zepgirl

          I’m sorry, are you suggesting that your child’s development was affected by the lack of flash cards and Baby Einstein videos? That’s what your blaming the child’s lack of development on. You have GOT to be kidding.

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        • rudyroo

          Ok, now you have just lost the plot completely.

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        • From one sheep to another...

          I feel bad for you in regards to your situation with your ex, it’s very hard co-parenting after divorce particularly when there is no communication between parents. You say you believe your child’s mother is largely responsible for your sons issues and that may well be so, but I have to quote your earlier comment back to you “My 4.5 yr old son is very under-developed as far as speech goes aand behavioural/personality problems as far as I’m concerned and I wouldn’t be surprised if it could have something to do with the vaccines he’s been subjected to.”.

          I am just curious as to why your opinion has changed?

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    • Kay

      Is there a possibility your son is really just the product of divorced parents? Not placing blame its just a common thing social workers are used to seeing. Young children don’t cope well when Parents divorce it can stunt their growth mentally and cause behaviour issues. You mentioned you don’t have a choice when it comes to immunising your children to me says you and your ex probably don’t agree on much and tension is in the air. Sounds to me you have more to worry about then immunisation when it comes to your children.

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      • Anonymous

        That’s correct Kay and the mother has the kids 95% of the time from when the 4.yr old was 1.5 so I’m assuming that it’s more to do with her not making any effort to do flash cards, baby einstein vids etc like we did with our first child but was just saying that “maybe” vaccines “could” have something to do with it also.

        My now 8 yr old has told me that the mother has done nothing to develop the now 4.5 yr old since we separated such as flash cards or lkearning vids etc and when he was almost 4 still in nappies and was not talking she decided to put him into child care to get him talking etc and was only then that she made an effort to get him out of nappies because they wouldn’t take him into child care in nappies having to change him at almost 4 yrs old!

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  28. Edna

    I am a member of a chat group on Facebook with a couple of thousand other mums from a particular area of Australia. The topic of immunisations came up very recently. While most people said they would vaccinate at all costs, several people, including a NURSING STUDENT were not fully immunizing their children. The predminant argument seems to have been that the whooping cough immunisation is not fully effective against all strains… therefore why even bother getting it (WTF!). Also, the ‘my children don’t go to childcare, so I am not going to immunize them till just before they go to school’. Again… WTF! Don’t brush next to my children at the supermarket, thank you very much. Hope your kids don’t mind being old enough to remember every single one of their needles, poor buggers.
    We have a responsibility to protect the weak, the young and the elderly from these horrible diseases. Anyone who can use google should know that the decision on whether or not to vaccinate is a no brainier.

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  29. julia

    so if vaccinated people can catch the disease, they can therefore transmit the disease to other vaccinated people. sooo vaccinated people are as much to ‘blame’ as non vaccinated for immune compromised/infant/elderly people contracting a disease. really i think this whole blaming non vaxers for every outbreak is ludicrous, and peoples time would be better spent on many other issues, like the fact that 50% of indigenous children contract scabies before their first birthday.. why doesn’t mamamia do a story about that? oh right because the majority of readers are armchair crusaders with first world problems.. oh wait, our indigenous people live in the first world too http://1disease.org/scabies/about-scabies.php

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    • Faybian

      Lots of people in nursing homes catch scabies too.
      Why don’t you submit a story about scabies?

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    • seaghan

      What does vaccination have to do with scabies?

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      • julia

        scabies is preventable, and is pretty much non existent in mainstream society due to easily implemented measures, much the same as it claimed for vaccine preventable illnesses.
        my point is why does the vaccine/anti vaccine debate get so much airtime on this site, and something like scabies is never given a second thought because its a forgotten disease amongst mm readers.
        people say anti vaxers are bad parents. i say people who turn a blind eye to statistics concerning the indigenous population are bad australians.

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        • Rara

          Did I miss the meeting where all the MM readers got together and decided we would deliberately ignore indigenous issues? Make sure you let me know next time you plan a conspiracy MM team. (sarcastic tone)

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          • zepgirl

            Oh yeah, you should have been there, it was great!

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            • Rebecca

              Was there cake. I only attend conspiracy meetings if there is cake.

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        • Faybian

          So residents in nursing homes aren’t part of mainstream Australia?

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        • Rudyroo

          Because scabies are not responsible for millions of deaths around the world like pertussis, polio, measles, tetanus etc.

          Because vaccinating provides herd protection for those more vulnerable which includes certain groups of the indigenous population.

          It’s a no brainier, really.

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    • bo

      Totally agree julia, the blame game does nothing for the credibility of the issue. We have to trust that families become informed, and make informed decisions in the best interest of their children, and ultimately societies children. Empowering parents to become informed, to not just accept decrees because the government, or your neighbour, say it is the right or the best thing to do is dangerous. Debate forces us to critically examine our perspectives, and to grow and understand better. Lets get this fired up about the quality, health and educational outcomes of childrens lives in our rural and Indigenous communities.

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      • Mia

        Bo,
        The urge to ‘get informed’ is a spurious call to action. And it’s the signature catch cry of the anti-vax movement.
        Scientists and medical authorities have been doing research – actual scientific research for decades.
        People without medical training – even well meaning parents, ESPECIALLY well meaning parents – do not have the ability to asses the quality of the information they access in the same way as experts do. And no, watching a youtube video on an anti-vax site or following some link to a dodgy study is not ‘getting informed’.
        Remember: on one hand there’s science and there is no other hand.

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        • Sarah Hill

          Mia, All accountants have studied for years but I wouldn’t take advice from all accountants out there. Same deal here.

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          • Kris2040

            How many legit doctors are against immunisation following the schedule?

            Mercola and Tenpenny don’t count.

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            • Anonymous

              lol…My childs peadetrican told me that she has several collegues who do not vaccinate their own children….lol…..

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          • trixie melodian

            If every accountant out there tells you that 2+2=4, but a couple of concerned mums submit a few youtube videos and run a few seminars claiming that the accountancy profession is hiding the REAL truth – that 2+2 actually equals 5, whose view would you give more credit to?

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            • Guest

              LOL that response is GOLD :p

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        • julia

          as i’m sure you are aware, many parents are also university educated in the field of medicine and science, as I am, and are able to access realms of quality peer reviewed research and literature easily, not just ‘youtube videos and dodgy links’. the key is informed decisions , and yes, people who believe everything they read on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt, but your site only fuels the ignorant masses on their high horses.. i fully endorse people getting themselves and their children vaccinated, as long as a choice remains for those who have good and just reasons for not vaccinating. obviously the majority of people are not cable of making medical decisions, and therefore need to follow what their GP advises. my point is , that 40 kids getting measles is rather insignificant when considering that 50% of indigenous children get scabies before their first birthday. I’m guessing you would be up in arms if your children were among those 50%…

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          • julia

            note* should read 50% in NT

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            • Rudyroo

              The repercussions of a measle infection or outbreak are vastly more serious than scabies.
              Not saying scabies are not a problem.
              I’m saying they aren’t comparable issues.

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            • Jen

              My nephew had scabies.. he picked it up in his mainstream school….funny, there was no risk of him dying from it… maybe that’s why people aren’t talking about it

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          • Kris2040

            Depends on your definition of “good and just reason”, I suppose, Julia.

            “The Vibe”, for example, isn’t what most people would call a “good and just reason”.

            Perpetuating fear and misinformation in the face of proven experience and science and leaving vulnerable people more vulnerable to preventable diseases isn’t what I’d supply as a definition of “good and just”.

            Believing conspiracy theories isn’t “good and just”. And none of these examples show any reason either.

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    • Anonymous

      Is this a serious point? Of course if u are vaccinated it doesn’t necessarily stop you from getting it but it certainly prevents it in most cases! If you are unlucky enough to get it you are more likely to get a mild case because your body already has the antibodies to fight the disease! Think about how many elderly people would die without the flu shot? For the first time in 10 years I didn’t have the flu vaccination, for the past 10 years I have complained when I have had a “cold/flu” thinking what it the point!? This year I didn’t have it and I was the sickest I have been in 15 years and had to go to hospital – I’m 30! Children at the elderly are at the most risk when it comes to illness and I personally think it is selfish of parents not to vaccinate their children – its there to protect them and the other people who come in to contact with them! Grrr! This issue annoys me – I think if a unvaccinated child gets a preventable diseases then that child’s parents should be charged with neglect – rant over

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    • trixie melodian

      If you have a room of 100 vaccinated people and expose them to measles, fewer than 10 people will get measles (I think the measles vaccine is 90%+ effective) That’s TEN people walking around infecting other people before symptoms appear.

      If you have a room of 100 unvaccinated people and expose them to measles, approximately 90 of them will develop measles, as it is VERY contagious. That’s NINETY people infecting the general public before symptoms appear.

      So if we are going to play the blame game, let’s lay it squarely where it deserves to be.

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      • Anonymous

        Um…that is weird claim..Unless there was some sort of study that put on outbreak of measles amonst the vaccinated and unvaccinated, there is no way you could tell..lol

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        • JaneDJ

          Well, now, South Sydneysiders in the article above appear to be running their own trial and are on the way to prove the theory…

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        • Guest

          Sorry but that is a ridiculous thing to say… No way you could tell? I really wonder about these people!

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    • alison

      Well … vaccinated people are far less likely to catch a disease, it’s just that it’s not totally impossible which is what the article acknowledges. But vaccinated people will have a less severe illness, which means fewer symptoms – so if you’re not, say, coughing and sneezing all over everyone else then you’re not spreading it around.

      This means that if there are enough vaccinated people (ie. almost all) in a community there’ll be so few incidences of any disease that occurs and a sufficiently small transmittal rate that we (the community) won’t experience outbreaks, and ideally a disease can be eliminated altogether.

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  30. Vanessa

    You know, I’ve always been a ‘live and let live’ person. You want to breastfeed until you child’s old enough to drive? Whatever, they’re your nipples. You want to feed your children only organic everything? Whatever, you clearly have more time and money than I do.
    But the thing that gets me about anti-vaxxers (Let’s call them vaccine deniers, like the climate change skeptic are called, hey?) is that are putting OTHER people’s children at risk, not just theirs. It is the ultimate in selfishness, based on no scientific research whatsoever. It beggars belief that MY children could die because of some other cretin’s general stupidity. Will it take a child or two to die of the current measles outbreak before people wake up? As a child of a father who suffered from polio, and who still suffers terrible disability because of it even now, I cannot and will not ever fathom what these people are ‘thinking’ and it makes me so angry that it’s not just their children that will die.

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  31. Kat

    I wish the anti-vax crowd would spend time in my house – or one of the many houses that their choice effects. With a mother who has a chronic illness and happens to work in south-west Sydney, hearing this on the news meant we immediately knew she would be in for multiple doctor’s appointments (to get a referral for a blood test and to get results and vaccine if required) and constant low-level anxiety until this passes. We have had enough of this.

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    • Anonymous

      I don’t understand. How can she catch it if she is vaccinated?

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      • mell

        Vaccines are not 100% in stopping it, they just help to build up antibodies to fight off the illness so u are less likely to get here.

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      • bo

        Vaccination doesnt give you 100% immunity…..

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        • Anonymous

          Ahhh, so she could catch it from another vaccinated person, not someones unvaccinated feral?

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          • Sarah Hill

            Honestly do you have to stoop so low to calling them ‘feral’?

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            • Anonymous

              Well, yeah. We want them excluded from childcare, school, play group, hell, someone didn’t even want them brushing up against her kids in the supermarket. They must be ferals, unfit to walk amongst us. Hysterical much?

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            • Kris2040

              There was a case of measles traced to a movies usher where people who had literally just walked past them wound up with it. It’s pretty damn contagious. Just from being in the same vicinity.

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      • Kris2040

        The vaccines don’t necessarily convert to immunity for everyone, and if you have certain illnesses or medical conditions, you can’t get immunised.
        This is why everyone who can be vaccinated needs to be – so that as many people as possible do have immunity, and stop any vaccine preventable diseases getting an in through a chink in the armour. Which has happened with whooping cough, and now measles.

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  32. Stella80

    I am deaf because I contracted measles when I was still too young to be vaccinated. This is something I struggle with every day of my life. It has prevented me from doing some of the only things I ever wanted to do (join the Air Force, be a pilot). Because somebody else decided not to vaccinate their child. Don’t get me wrong, I do respect the right to make your own choices about your own children, but for goodness sake, make it an educated decision, and consider the ripple effect you may have on other people’s lives!

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    • Mumps

      I am also deaf, after contracting what is now a preventable childhood disease (mumps). The vaccine was not around when I was a child. Do I vaccinate my children? You bet! The dangerous and/or lifelong affects of not doing so makes this decision a no-brainer for my family.

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  33. jamilarizvi

    Hi everyone,

    Our spam filter has gone into serious overdrive these past 2 days and it driving us a little batty. We’re finding and restoring your comments as soon as we can and we WILL get to them all, I promise. Please be patient if your comment doesn’t appear immediately the way it usually would. I really am sorry, we appreciate you bearing with us!

    Jamila

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    • Lucinda

      Jamila, I think you need to do a separate blog post about the tech problems… they are just beyond silly now. I think you guys are in danger of losing readership if you don’t communicate this properly. Also, maybe you guys need a new tech team. They have been failing for weeks now. The problems are getting worse.

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      • Mia

        Hi Lucinda,
        As the site grows, we are faced with all sorts of new issues. We would love to ‘get a new tech team’ but it’s not that simple.
        We are a very small company – we’re not a major media organisation – and we’re literally doing the best we possibly can.
        We KNOW it’s frustrating for you guys and we hate that. It’s even more frustrating for us!
        But we’re grateful for everyone’s on-going patience.

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  34. Crunchie

    I’m trying to picture what if would be like if I weren’t vaccinated. I’d feel very…exposed and vulnerable I guess. I did have the chicken pox as a 2yr old though as there was no vaccine and there was the mentality of ‘better get it as a kid than an adult’, and yes I got it from a chicken pox party.
    I don’t have kids but when I do vaccinating will be a no-brainer!
    I’m epileptic, and have had a couple of seizures from vaccines (I fainted from the needle, which lead to a seizure). My mum decided it was worth the risk of having a mild seizure (I’ve never had bad ones anyway) than getting and possibly dying from a preventable disease.

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  35. Seahorse

    Yay for the continued reporting and sticking with this issue MM. Awesome.

    What I’ve copped onto lately, and what I’d love you guys to cover, is that for many, not vaccinating has become trendy. I know. Trendy. It seems to be part of the whole crunchy momma thing – along with advanced breastfeeding (tandem nursing, nursing until 8yo etc etc), sling wearing, raw-milk sourcing, baby-led weaning etc etc. by the way I have no problem with any of the crunchy momma stuff but how in earth did not vaccinating end up in the same boat? I thought anti-vaxers were a minority few who sported dreadlocks and lived in nimbin. I would love to see the face of anti-vax beyond the crazy dorrel lady. Who are these peeps, and is it really becoming trendy in more mainstream-ish mum circles?

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    • Anonymous

      Nooooo it’s not true … I am a “crunchy” one, a baby wearing, breast feeding, attachment parenting mama, and I am very strongly FOR vaccination! I know I am probably in the minority, but we aren’t all COMPLETELY nuts, I promise! :)

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      • Anonymous

        I breastfed ’til my daughter was 3, wore her in a sling, we still sleep in the same bed etc etc. I even at one stage had dreadlocks. My daughter and my son are both fully vaccinated. I have a couple of friends whose children are not vaccinated and they are pretty straight people. If you met them you would certainly not think of them as being ‘alternative’.
        I don’t think it’s true that anti-vaxers are all crazy hippies, I think there are a lot of ‘mainstream’ people not vaccinating. Why I don’t know.

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        • Kris2040

          I’m a member of a group of kind of refugees from AP and crunchy groups who came together because they couldn’t handle the stupid from the crunchy AV Mommas! It’s an awesome group.

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  36. Bellered

    I just wanted to add regarding the “chicken pox parties”, that you can get chicken pox more than once. My little sister had it 3 times in a space of 5yrs. Each case was milder than the last and by the third time she only had about 15blisters on her stomach and face. So the whole “getting it over and done with” is negligent on the parents part. As if your child is like my sister, you are knowingly putting them at risk.

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    • Kylie

      I wholeheartedly agree there…I have had chicken pox a recorded 8 times, with one of those being Shingles (a more extreme case of it affecting nerve endings just under the skin) – ALL were diagnosed by Drs..the first three times, I had a decent amount of spots…the other 4 times have been quite mild with only a dozen or so blisters on my belly and back. My brother has also had chicken pox multiple times…we get regular vaccines for it because we seem to be so damned unlucky…

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  37. Faybian

    So this is your new way of cutting down the number of excessive comments, just not posting them.

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    • Mia

      ‘Excessive’ comments? Our spam filter has decided to have a tantrum and become way over zealous so we’re in the process of re-training it.
      Thanks for your patience!
      xx

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  38. Peggy

    Our baby boy endured a seven month kaleidoscope cocktail of chemotherapy which inialated his immune system. It is the elderly, infants and immune compromised that can indirectly suffer the fall out of these infectious diseases. Each to there own.

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    • Wendy

      Yes yes and yes. Your decisions for your child could adversely affect other members of society.

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  39. rima

    people in third world countries would give anything for these vaccines. i cannot believe that people who have access to awareness and resources, and a government who wants to help, risk their children’s health and those of babies too young to be immunised because they are too stupid and ignorant to differentiate between garbage and science. this is a horrible situation.

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  40. Really

    I really wish people would just bloody vaccinate. It is selfish not to. Not only does it affect their child, but what about all those out there in the community with chronic illness etc, these illness can kill them and they can be caught from non vaccinated kids. It is a community health issue and I don’t believe these parents should receive childcare payments etc if they don’t vaccinate. The selfishness of these parents astounds me.

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    • Dee

      I agree. It isn’t hard too and not THAT expensive compared to the cost it could cause to your child and others.

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  41. kateb

    20 years ago my fully vacinated son caught whooping cough, since he was a severe asthmatic we had been treating him for his “flair up” of asthma with a nebuliser. This had hidden the whooping cough symptons. It was only when he started coughing up blood that we rushed him to hospital.

    We were told that the vaccine, then, only lasted 10 years and it was expected that if everyone was vaccinated then older children wouldnt catch it.

    I think people who dont vaccinate their children should not be given any money from the government(my taxes) but they should not be allowed to go to school either.

    It is the same mentallity as driving on the wrong side of the road, because you want to. Laws and rules are to help us live together, conscious objection is alright if it doesnt affect anyone else. Home school!!!

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  42. Dee

    This has got to be the biggest coincidence. I just got told from the doctors I have the measles and I’m from the South West too! Cept, mine isn’t severe but it is extremely annoying!

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  43. Lucinda

    Here we go again….

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    • Faybian

      Im the 90th comment, I wonder how many there’ll be in an hour.

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  44. Anonymous

    I have had a very personal hard battle with immunisations. I had two children fully vaccinate when I had my third, I received 3 boosters/immunisations after her birth and become very sick, birth + 3 immunisations = overloaded immune system, shingles and 6 months of hell.. So I battled so hard with heart n head on immunisation with my 3rd child, I battled my responsibility as a parent to protect my child, my responsibility as a human to not subject others to possible diseases my child could spread (ie whooping cough to infants) and my fear of something happening to her because of the immunisation. I do have her fully immunised besides chickenpox which I will get done.. It is really hard a hard place tobe when you have been in a position where you have either physically felt the side effects of immunisation gone wrong, or have a child living with the results of an immunisation gone wrong.
    The hardest thing I found was the only people who were supportive of my struggle were the anti-vac mums and close non judgemental friends (even those they immunised they still understood), it was the pro immunisation mums who called me names such as, idiot, moron, stupid, no right to be a mother etc.. When my fear was real and all I needed was understanding and help… Although I did end up choosing to immunise her, the treatment from the pro-immunisation mums almost pushed me towards not vaccinating… So although yes I believe immunisation is important and am pro immunisation I also respect the choices of others when they choose not to because of living the results of immunisation gone wrong.
    SO PRO Immunsation mums maybe you need to take a step back and not bad mother call names and insult anti vax parents and show some support.. The ones who preach the stupid crazy stuff well they need to be ignored, the more you cater to them the more crap they go on with and might just turn a undecided mum to not vaccinating with their scary mercury filled immunisation stories…
    Also you need to take into account that a lot of families that immigrate to Australia do not vaccinate for religious reasons which is also a main contribution to the sky rocketing non immunisation rates…

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    • Really

      Imagine if you had actually caught one of these bugs you were being immunized against?????? If your immune system struggled with three non active strains of disease imagine what an active one could have done. Have you seen adults with chicken pox? I have, on ventilators in ICU with kidney failure as well. I watched on poor guy spasm every time there was a loud noise for two months after he contracted tetanus. These guys needed months and months of rehab in hospital and still live with really nasty side effects. All things that could have been prevented with a simple injection.

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    • Faybian

      Just out of interest where do you get the immigrants refusing immunisations for religious reasons?
      I’ve seen Muslims, hindus and Sikhs getting immunized. I know some Muslims don’t like oral polio, but haven’t seen any object to injectable polio. Haven’t seen any Jewish people object to it either.

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    • Faybian

      2nd attempt.
      I know some hard line Islamic scholars etc object to oral polio, but personally I haven’t seen any Muslims object to the injectable polio. I believe some hairline Jewish followers object to oral polio too.

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      • Kris2040

        Yes, I’d like to know who the immigrants who object are, too. At one of our jab clinics there was a woman in niqab there (mistakenly, it was only for the kids’ jabs) to get jabs.

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  45. Rachm81

    Im also a paediatric nurse and I’d challenge any ‘non-vax’ parent to come and watch a six week old baby with whooping cough be so overcome with a coughing fit that they turn blue from being unable to breathe. No child deserves that and no parent should have to stand by helplessly and watch their child suffer. Because there is nothing you can do for these kids – they just have to rise it out. Choosing not to immunize doesn’t just effect your child; it effects anyone who is susceptible to these horrific diseases. Babies DIE from whooping cough.

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    • Rachm81

      Oopps – ride it out!

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  46. Margaret

    Oh Please this is my third attempt to comment on my thread. This is so bloody annoying MM, please fix it or I will just not bother anymore.

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    • alyssakt

      Patience, Ladies. Mine didn’t appear either… but then I looked again and they had.
      It IS annoying – but it’s not like they’re trying to annoy us on purpose :)

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    • jamilarizvi

      Hi Margaret

      We’re very aware of the problem and I’m sorry you’re finding it so frustrating. Your comment isn’t gone – it’s just ending up in spam – we’re watching the filter really closely and restoring comments as soon as we possibly can. Our tech team are working around the clock trying to fix this. Your patience, in the meantime, is much appreciated.

      Jamila

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      • Suzie74

        I’ve given up trying to comment on any post under any profile, probably this won’t get thru either, Didn’t realise there was a known problem – perhaps you should write that at the top of posts until you are sorted? So I wouldn’t have had to bother emailing you twice in past week (no response) thinking it was just me….

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  47. anon

    Where oh where did my comment go?

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    • Faybian

      Ive tried a number of times too.

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  48. Anonymous

    Just wondering if anyone had any info on when you need your adult boosters? I always forget to ask at the doctor and I’m late 20s now, having not had a vaccine since I was a teenager.

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    • alyssakt

      I don’t think you do, unless:
      “Measles vaccination is recommended for non-immune adults, particularly healthcare workers and those who work with children, and travellers to reduce their risk of catching, and then spreading the disease, and women planning to become pregnant.”
      http://www.myvaccination.com.au/18-49-years/measles.aspx

      Immunisation schedule for adults
      http://www.health.qld.gov.au/immunisation/consumers/adults.asp

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    • Anonymous

      You should have the boostrix vaccine every 10 years, this is the vaccine for tetanus, diptheria and whooping cough. Ifyou haven’t had one since ypu were a teenager you’ll be due about now

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    • Carrianne

      Re: adult immunity – you can get a blood test from your GP too which will check your immunity to hepatitis, tetanus, measles, rubella and everything else. This will enable you to see if you need a booster for anything :)

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  49. Kate

    My son contracted whooping cough at 4 months, before he was old enough to be fully vaccinated. I had him in daycare one day a week at the time, only learning after the fact that two children who had parents who were ‘conscientious objectors’ had been diagnosed with pertussis. Now, these children were 4 and 6, old enough to cope with the effects that pertussis has on the body. However, my son (almost) was not. Weeks in hospital followed; I saw him resuscitated, incubated, lifeless, blue; memories that will never, ever fade. I support the right to choose but urge anti vaxxers to remember; this is not just about your child and your choice. By excersising your (dare I say it) misinformed right not to vaccinate, you could unknowingly be spreading a deadly disease. How much more empirical evidence and data do you need to show you that the risks of vaccinating are FAR outweighed by the benefits?

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    • Chris

      If someone’s child isn’t up to date with vaccinations then they shouldn’t qualify for the childcare rebate or benefit. Conscientious objectors or not. And there should be a much lower bar for excluding those who are not vaccinated from childcare and school when they are sick because there is a higher chance that it will be a serious communicable disease.

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    • Jen

      Kate I am really surprised that those kids were allowed to daycare as I’ve had to supply my daughter’s immunisations records to my daycare centre. Thought that was the done thing?

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      • my thoughts

        My understanding is that they ask for records so they know who is/isn’t up to date with their immunisations. If there is an outbreak of something the non immunised kids are sent home & not allowed back until the the centre is clear of infections.

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        • Kate

          Many thanks for your replies ladies. It is reassuring to know others share my strong views. In terms of the daycare, the children are still able to attend until they were actually diagnosed with pertussis. And yes, daycare either ask for the proof of vaccinations (so you can receive the child care rebate),or proof of your objection. In hindsight, I really wish I had asked if there were children who were not immunized. That’s one of my reasons for posting, knowledge is the best line of defense we have in protecting our children. I am not actually sure how their diagnosis came about, however, by the time I was informed they had it we were already in hospital, so I am unsure of what transpired afterwards. I really, really hope they were not allowed back into the centre, but to be honest, I just couldn’t even face speaking finding out.

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        • Ki

          Wow, irony much??!! The anti facer kids are sent home to protect them from the vaccinated ones but the babies too young to be vaccinated are not protected from them. Time to call these selfish people on their choices.

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      • Jess

        Jen,

        Non immunised children are allowed to attend any school or daycare centre by law. The centre cannot discriminate based on the parents decision not to immunise. The parent must sign a conscientious objection form which means they have ‘done their research’ and decided not to immunise

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    • doz

      And those ‘consientious objectors’ will spout about how these diseases are very infrequent so why put the vaccine into the child unnessessarily. The diseases are infrequent BECAUSE the overwhelming majority of parents immunise their children. It is THEIR ATTITUDE AND MISINFORMATION that is causing the reintroduction of controllable diseases.
      Kate – my heart breaks for what you have been through and how these SELFISH AND MISINFORMED parents have caused you and your baby to go through so much pain.

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      • Kate

        Thank you :) he is a happy, healthy 4 year old now, but I am all too aware others do not have such a happy ending…

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    • Jac

      Kids who are not vaccinated shouldn’t be in child care. Isn’t that asking for trouble?

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    • anonymous

      Maybe a 4 month old baby shouldn’t be in child care in the first place. Too young to develop immunity to anything, and in daycare, exposed to everything! Some of the blame is yours Kate.

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      • Faybian

        Nice. Blame a parent for having to go to work.

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      • Anonymous

        I agree…unoess your starving, dont put your child in daycare at 4 months…then get upset when they get sick!!!

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  50. Anonymous

    I have had both my children fully vaccinated. If I ever have another child I am not sure what I will do. My concern is ‘Myth’ no. 9. I would like a more comprehensive answer to that (from someone who knows, not some random parent on the internet with no medical qualifications).
    The bit about children being exposed to many foreign particles a day. Those foreign particles are not injected straight into the bloodstream, isn’t that different?
    I have had no contact with anyone advocating against vaccinations, I’m concerned because my son is still reacting to his 4 year old vaccination and every doctor I’ve spoken to has said either ‘that’s very rare’ or ‘kids are supposed to react, that’s how vaccinations work’ which explains nothing to me and leaves me feeling dismissed and a bit worried.
    Perhaps parents are getting a bit worried because of this sort of attitude from medical professionals. I think a public awareness campaign that doesn’t ‘talk down’ to parents who are concerned would go a long way. Something that doesn’t belittle or demonize worried parents but instead addresses their concerns and provides proper answers rather than just brush-offs.

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    • Laws for Clouds

      I can’t speak as a medical professional, but I know staggering vaccines is an option if you are concerned abut overwhelming a child’s system.

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    • Ros

      Vaccines are not directed straight into the bloodstream either. You should take a list of questions to your GP.

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      • Anonymous

        It still bypasses the gastrointestrinal tract…There is a document by the FDA, it on Dr Sears site and im not bothered to get it for you either..do your own research..lol… That document states that anything that bypasses the gatrointentestrinal tract can become toxic…Its the FDA..lol… Plus, they have found that aluminium toxicity cannot be determined just by looking at synmptoms… They need to do some sort of invasive test… As such, some children cannot handle injectables… Whilst others can….

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    • Wendy

      I agree on myth number 9. the vaccination schedule 15 years ago, didn’t include as many shots as it does now.

      The Swine flu shot a couple of years ago was withdrawn from children because there was a higher than expected rate of convulsions.

      One of the scientists made a statement about two much stray DNA matter left in the vaccine being too much for some children’s immune systems.

      Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. I believe in vaccines, I’m vaccinated, my kids are vaccinated, but I also believe sometimes a little caution or staggering could be in order.

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    • Faybian

      Theyre actually injected into a muscle, later going to the bloodstream, just like other foreign particles are breathed in or swallowed, also later ending up in the bloodstream.
      The reason there is no dissension from medical practitioners is because the science for vaccines is so strong. If you’re not happy with explanations, maybe you need to speak to a doctor etc who will actually take the time to explain the mechanism of vaccination.

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      • Anonymous

        Ok, I didn’t know that.

        It’s not that I expect any dissent, just an explanation of the facts. When I got my two to have a flu needle before going overseas in early 2011 I asked the G.P. what side-effects could potentially happen and he said there would be no side effects. As it turned out my youngest developed a high temperature and was the sickest she has ever been. He would have known that was a possibility but just couldn’t be bothered telling me. It’s that attitude that really irks. I know it must getting boring having to explain the same thing over and over but that’s what you’re supposed to do when you’re a G.P.

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        • Faybian

          Yes, it does irk. I know GPsare very busy and expected to be all for everyone, but sometimes they don’t bother explaining things properly. I don’t know where you’re from but the division of GPs (gplan in Qld) has a lovely sheet which explains any potential side effects of vaccines and the risk of adverse events VS the risks and effects of the “wild” strain of the disease.. It also explains how to treat any side effects. Next time ask your GP if he/she has one of these.

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          • Anonymous

            First, the reasons people are concerned is because it by passes the gastrointestinal tract. hence, the air we breathe and food we eat are all absorbed via the protective factors of the gastrointestinal tract…Heck, the FDA has issued a document stating these facts!

            So, your claim is incredibly misleading. It goes into the bloodtream, with no protection what so ever… maybe you need to go back to uni???

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            • Original Anonymous

              Sorry what?

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            • Faybian

              I debated whether to comment on this thread given the time that’s gone by, but the ridiculous statement of the air we breathe being absorbed by the protective factors of the GI tract is just stunning.
              Here I was thinking all this time that the air we breathe was absorbed by the lungs! Which oddly enough are perfectly made to absorb the air we breathe. Silly me!

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      • Anonymous

        Out of all people, you should know the difference between a vaccine by passing the protective factors of the gastrointestinal tract and the toxins in food and the air we breathe are absorbed by the gastrointestinal tract… Science 101….

        So, yes they do go inot our bloodstream by passing the protective factors of the gastrointestinal tract….. Whilst food and other toxins are not so much of a danger.

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    • happi-ness

      Vaccines are not injected directly into the bloodstream, they are either intra-muscular (into muscle) or subcutaneous (under the skin)

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