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Screen Shot 2013 03 04 at 10.06.41 AM 380x429 Meet the circumcised men who want their foreskins back.

Elywn Moir was circumcised as a baby and felt “robbed” ever since.

 

 

 

There are circumcised men out there who are willing to go to some seriously extreme lengths (pun acknowledged but unintended) to get their foreskins back.

These men feel they were “robbed” of something before they were old enough to have a say. They want the right to decide how their bodies look and function.

Last night, 60 Minutes brought us the story of one of these men, Elwyn Moir.

28-year-old Elwyn was circumcised when he was born and says he has lived with a “sense of loss” since he was old enough to understand what happened.

Elwyn doesn’t blame his parents – he says they did the best they could for their son at the time – but he told reporter Tara Brown that he has always felt an overwhelming sense that he had been “interfered with”.

“(I was) robbed in some way. Just that realisation that there were parts I didn’t have… And I wanted to have the whole set,” Elwyn said. “I experienced it quite a lot as anger; this sort of brewing anger, resentment and even rage.”

To overcome this sense of loss, Elwyn has taken the dramatic and painful step of manually stretching the remaining skin on his penis to try and get a foreskin back.

In this piece for The Punch called “I was circumcised and I want my foreskin back!” Elwyn wrote about that significant decision. The choice, he said, should belong with the owner of the penis.

93828764 Meet the circumcised men who want their foreskins back.

In my mid-twenties, my GP supported my decision to restore my foreskin. He referred me to a specialist urologist who supervised and advised on my plan to manually stretch my remaining foreskin tissue back into the form of a full foreskin, just as many adults choose to stretch their ear lobes…

…Restoration is an elaborate and demanding process, requiring a man to attach a device which gently grips the remaining foreskin on the shaft of the penis and apply tension by hanging weights or stretching an elastic strap from it to their thighs or shoulders.”

That weighted stretching takes places over several hours each day for three to five years.

In Elywn’s own words: “It’s not great. It’s a bit of a burden… but it’s worth it.”

Screen shot 2013 03 04 at 11.27.32 AM Meet the circumcised men who want their foreskins back.

Foreballs – a commonly used tool for foreskin stretching.

 

Male circumcision remains a contentious issue in Australia. It can be done for reasons of cultural norms, religious traditions or it is something that some parents choose for health or aesthetic reasons.

At the moment, the rate of male circumcision for baby boys is about 14 per cent in their first 12 months. In the 1950s that number was around 70 per cent. Circumcision hasn’t been offered in hospitals since the 1990s. In Tasmania, it’s banned altogether.

Last year, Mamamia wrote about the circumcision debate after the influential American Academy of Pediatrics publicly declared that the benefits of circumcision out-weigh the risks – which include being infected with sexually transmitted diseases.

This was from AAP at the time:

Evaluation of current evidence indicates that the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks and that the procedure’s benefits justify access to this procedure for families who choose it.

Specific benefits identified included prevention of urinary tract infections, penile cancer, and transmission of some sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists has endorsed this statement.

The academy said it was the right of the parents to make the decision.

HH brian morris Meet the circumcised men who want their foreskins back.

Circumcision advocate Brian Morris.

Supporters of circumcision agree. Indeed, Australia’s most vocal advocate of circumcision Professor Brian Morris, from the University of Sydney says circumcision is as safe as childhood vaccination and has the same “minor risks but enormous benefits”.

He said male circumcision was a “no brainer” for parents.

“The benefits exceed the risks by well over 100 to one,” he told 60 Minutes.

“And then, considering that the risks of circumcision are very rare and minor, easily treatable with no adverse long term consequences, verses the risks of not circumcising – that is all of the conditions that can occur over the lifetime including genital cancers and cervical cancers in the female partners and HIV which is rare at present… then it’s really massively more than 100 to 0ne in favour.”

But opponents disagree.

Screen Shot 2013 03 04 at 10.59.23 AM Meet the circumcised men who want their foreskins back.

Paul Mason is an opponent of circumcision

Barrister Paul Mason says: “There is zero evidence and not one single study in history that demonstrates that circumcising a baby has any effect of his future propensity for contracting on not contracting a disease.”

“Unnecessary genital surgery on all children… should be regarded as a criminal assault and a civil assault”.

Mr Mason says there are hundreds of thousands of men around the world who believe their rights were abused and they “were deprived of the opportunity to retain their bodies in their natural form”.

But he said no one has sued a doctor or their parents … yet.

Do you have a circumcised versus uncircumcised preference?

Comments

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165 Comments so far

  1. Tyrone

    Because I came close to being circumcised as a child I am grateful every day that I can adore my foresking and enjoy my penis as nature intended. OMG I cannot believe that helpless little babies and defenseless children are taken advantage of. A society needs to protect the vulnerable, as a man I will never be circumcised. Protect children and babies. They will most likely appreciate a whole body.

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  2. ACutAbove

    I’m super happy to be circumcised as an infant. By no means should it mandatory, but making it illegal is a pretty backwards thing to do. If parents want to do the best by their kids, why not?

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  3. Get the chop

    Dictionary definition:

    “Mutilation or maiming is an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body, sometimes causing death.”

    Circumcision doesn’t degrade the appearance of the penis (if anything it makes it look much better) and it doesn’t degrade the function either, so how can it be mutilation? Please don’t compare it to FGM and please don’t call my parents child abusers – that is a very immature, disgusting comment to make.

    As a male who was circumcised later in life I’ve been on both sides and much much prefer my circumcised penis.

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    • Ahmed

      as a muslim who was circumcised, i tell you that i was mutilated and i have lost the part of my body which has 4 times more nerve endings than the clitoris. you are ready to be responsible for 100 dead healthy boys every year?

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      • Iron Lady

        Sounds like you had a dodgy doctor. If done correctly circumcision is a minor procedure with low rates of complications. I hardly think its appropriate to conclude the above poster should be responsible for 100 deaths. He obviously had a good experience and you didnt – there is a good and bad to everything.The parents are responsible for finding a qualified person to do the cut and weigh up the risks.

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  4. Archy

    Imagine a group of males discussing the benefits of trimming their infant daughter’s labias to prevent future infections, some saying how it looks better (on adults of course), some saying they’d never give oral sex to a woman who wasn’t trimmed. Males, whom do not have a labia, discussing AND making decisions on surgery for their infant. Now imagine grown women who’ve had this done talk as adults talk about how they’ve lost sensitivity, wish it never was done, etc.

    I find it pretty sickening seeing women (who don’t have a foreskin/penis and thus have far less moral right to make this choice) especially be PRO circumcision on infants(not talking about medical necessity since there is little choice there). Circumcision for under 18′s should be banned unless medically necessary. Why do a procedure on a child like that? “Oh because it lowers UTI’s”….so let’s start cutting out tonsils, appendix, wisdom teeth, etc on babies and children before the problem arises just to be safe….sure…that’d work.

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    • B

      Archy, my husband is pro-circumcision. Very, very pro. And we’re not religious, cultural etc.
      And yes, I have discussed different types of vaginas with my husband and what he prefers and doesn’t like.
      Women are discussing it in this forum because it’s a decision that both parents make. So yes, it is something women discuss.

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  5. Anonymous

    The people who are saying that a non circumcised penis is ‘ugly’, and there is no way they are going to ‘put one in their mouth’ – is this your first question when meeting a guy so you can make an informed decision about whether you like them as a person? Or do you just give the blow job first (or not if they are uncircumcised apparently) then decide whether to go on your first date? This seems like an incredibly shallow way of deciding whether you want to be sexually active with someone. I wonder how you would react a guy said ‘sorry – I really like you but but your vag is really ugly – go get your lips snipped and we will see about it then’.

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    • Critical Thinkbomb

      I believe the parlance would be “that’s misogynistic”.

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    • B

      People make decisions based on all sorts of things in a relationship – thus why the Seinfeld episode of ‘man hands’ was funny. Yes, I prefer a circumcised penis. My husband prefers small breasts. My brother thinks short girls are cute. He also loves dark skin (as in Asian, not tanned). I love tall men and my husband’s AFL legs and arms drive me nuts. People have preferences. Are we no longer allowed to have preferences?

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      • darren

        you are not born with a circumcised penis so how can it it be a preference. your comment confuses me.
        interestingly though i was circumcised around 2 but i dont think it has had any negative effects on me, but for the men it has then all the power to you guys to get justice.
        if science believes so heavily in evolution then im sure if men where better off with out it then it would disappear……

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      • Dkmum

        I understand the comment above to ask not whether we have preferences but whether we let those shallow ideals determine who we end up with as opposed to values and morals etc.

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      • Forensicgirl

        People have a right to their preferences, yes. But no-one has the right to force that preference as cosmetic surgery on an infant.

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    • Zepgirl

      I agree with you. I would lose it completely if a guy told me that he didn’t want to have sex with me because he didn’t like the way my labia looked. Thus, I would never reject a guy because he either was or wasn’t circumcised. It’s one thing to have a preference either way, but to outright turn someone down on the basis of that? Foul.

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      • B

        Zepgirl, who’s turning people down? It’s just a preference. And when I asked my husband if he liked some vaginas more than others, he said yes. What’s the big deal?

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        • Zepgirl

          In the comments section there have been people who have indicated that they would never have anything to do with a penis that wasn’t circumcised. Like I said, having a preference is fine, but turning a guy down because he is one way or the other is not on.

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    • BJ

      No I don’t give blow jobs on the first date, but seeing as sex is a huge part of my relationships, yes it would make a difference to me if a guy was uncut. I have to feel attracted to my partner and looking at an un-cut one is not attractive to me – I just prefer a circumcised one. That’s my choice and taste.

      Call me shallow etc all you want but people rule out partners for a whole host of reasons ( too short, too hairy, too tall, bad teeth etc) but in the end if you aren’t physically attracted to someone (for whatever reason) then end of story.

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      • Natasha

        I feel kind of sorry for you BJ.

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      • Looks different

        Divorced 4 years ago after 20 years of marriage to a circumcised man, I had never even SEEN an ‘uncut’ man in real life!

        So my view, like yours, was that circumcised penises looked better.

        I have 2 sons, who we never even considered circumcising – THEIR bits, their choice I say.

        BUT I have now been with an uncircumcised man for the last 3 years, and guess what…they look the SAME when they are erect!

        No need to judge a man on how he looks “down there” then, is there!
        And it’s good to know that my sons – like my HOT new man – will have ALL the sensitivity they were born with!

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  6. Trestybird

    While I don’t feel circumcision is necessary these days and I chose not to circumcise my son, I also have no problem with people who decide to do it. It’s a minor surgical procedure – it’s not sexual abuse, becasue even thought it does involve a childs genitals, it is not sexual in nature, and it does not affect the function of the penis. To the men who are seriously agrieved by the loss of their foreskin – get over it. There are bigger problems for you to solve. I mean I could be angry abour the loss of my appendix and gallbladder…

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    • Anonymous

      Sorry, as a rare male that was circumcised as an adult for medical reasons, you statement that is doesn’t affect things sexually is bollocks. Sensitivity and pleasure is significantly reduced. Most guys done as infants simply know no different. Doesn’t make it right.

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      • B

        Anon, maybe that’s because you were circumcised as an adult. There’s far more scarring (and scar tissue has no nerve endings) when circumcised as an adult.

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    • darren

      where do you get your info, the most sensative part of the penis is in the foreskin.
      no country allows mutilation of female genital areas so why should it be allowed for men.
      why cant posting only be done by people who actually know what they are talking about.
      and yes some babies have died during this pointless operation

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  7. SuzyQ

    I think there is another issue here for Elwyn. It’s pretty clear this is NOT about foreskin..

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  8. mummak

    I wouldn’t put a cast on the leg of my infant ‘just in case’ he broke it later in life. I wouldn’t put braces on my infant ‘in case’ he has crooked teeth later. I wouldn’t perform a surgery to correct an issue that hasn’t arisen yet. Why would I circumcise my child because he MAY have an issue medically to do so later.

    I got blessed with a perfect, healthy child. Why ‘fix’ something that isn’t broken?

    If something happens in the future and he needs a circumcision for a medical reason, then we do what needs to be done, just like a broken arm, braces, or any other medical procedure.

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    • B

      Mummak, I had my tonsils removed at 26. I wish, oh how I wish, it had been done when I was younger. The operation came with many risks because of my age and when they finally saw down my throat, I had tumours (benign thankfully) that had developed after 8 years of consistent infection. I ended up with 22 stitches in my throat.
      If they had been cancerous, I would have been devastated (obviously). Sometimes things are easier when done younger. I would hate to have the amount of scar tissue on my penis that comes with being circumcised when older as opposed to the straightforward procedure done in infancy.

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      • mummak

        Sure, I get that.

        I broke my arm at age nine, right through everything, bone and tendons, I had to have several operations and lots of physio to get a result so I could use my hand again. Sure it hurt, but some things in life do. Being living things, we are susceptible to medical ailments. That’s life.

        There are many things I wish I couldn’t remember the pain of.

        Just because something is ‘easier’, doesn’t make it right.

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        • B

          I guess this why, for the moment, it’s up to parents.

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  9. Gracie

    I had my first son in the US, where circumcision is the norm (at least it was in my hospital) and I had to tell several of the medical staff that I didn’t want my son circumcised. They didnt understand why and went on about cleanliness – but when i spoke about vaginas being ‘unclean’, they all went a bit quiet. anyway, My 2nd son was born in Aus and it was completely different – staff were very anti-circumsion.
    The decision not to have it done was made by my husband and I, who both work in the medical field. Yes we have seen cases of uncircumcised boys/men needing to be circumcised later in life, but we dont think that’s a reason to remove the foreskin at birth either. As we’ve also seen boys with constant utis who are circumcised. As for the HIV/STD argument, the only studies that have shown an impact of circumcision were in (mainly African) communities with a very high majority infected. If I lived in one of those communities, maybe we would have had our boys circumcised. Here in australia and when working in the US, I see a lot of men with stds who are circumcised. As we dont live in a high risk community, i feel that teaching my boys about basic hygiene and then use of condoms is the method that we will be applying. It is also the method that we use for our daughter. But these are my children and if other parents have different ideas, I think that it’s completely up to them.

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  10. Iron Lady

    To all those saying that it’s traumatic and hurts the baby – how do you know? Just because they are crying? They are probably crying because they are away from their mum and in a strangers arms, or they could just be hungry or mildly uncomfortable from having their legs held. Besides, the area is numbed – they should hardly feel anything. My son was awake and didn’t cry or barely flinch. To those calling it child abuse, grow up, as if any mother getting her child circumscised is deliberately trying to hurt them.

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    • P

      What a weird bit of logic – give him an anaesthetic and any goes.

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      • darren

        a wonder some people are allowed to be parents really isnt it???!!!!??

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        • Iron Lady

          Darren – seems you need to work thru issues with your own circumscision. Take it up with your own mum and leave me out of your messed up assessment on who should and shouldn’t be allowed to be a parent.

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      • Iron Lady

        Yeah that’s exactly what I meant – you can do ANYTHING to your kids as long as you drug them!! Please. What a pointless comment you made.

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  11. Anon for this

    I don’t understand circumcision for non religious and non medical grounds. My boyfriend has a lovely uncircumcised penis, and I *ahem* have seen him wash it many times and seriously, it doesn’t look that difficult to teach little boys. If we have a boy, we have agreed that he won’t be circumcised and that boyfriend will be in charge of teaching how to wash!

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  12. NannaHannah

    I am against circumcision. My husband was not, both sons, one 40 in a few months, the other almost 30 are not and none had/have had problems or regretted it. Some of their cousins had it done as babies but they haven’t done it to their own sons. The doctor who birthed my first son was openly relieved when I answered no to his question of if I wanted it done. He hated doing it. That was in 1973. As parents, my husband and I were ‘chastised’ by many, especially my family. All males in my family were ‘done.’ So often the ‘encouragement to do it’ was ‘But you all need to be the same?’ It was a common reason to circumcise once, including ‘sameness in the change room.’ That, to us, was nonsense. It has proved so since. Neither my husband nor my sons have ever suffered an incidence of ‘difference’ and nor are they the only one either. Such interference of children should only ever be done for medical imperatives which are evident; and never because ‘they might contract cancer in the future.’ That is a poor reason, indeed, and smacks of ideology rather than evidence.

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  13. B

    My dad (uncircumcised) and my husband (circumcised) both watched this last night and thought that it wasn’t only his foreskin that would be Elwyn’s problem…
    We had both our boys circumcised. We made an informed choice via Terry Russell with the plastibell method. Neither of my boys cried and both came out asleep.
    My decision was based on a few things. My husband’s grandfather had to be circumcised at 60 and it was horrendous and basically ruined any sex life he had because there was so much foreskin to remove by that age. My mother (hippie chick in the 70s) REFUSED to have my brother circumcised and he had so many complications by the time he was 3 he had to be circumcised. My boyfriend who worked as a pathologist elected to get circumcised at 26 – besides having an overly sensitive penis which made sex really uncomfortable for him, he saw the amount of complications and infections associated with the foreskin coming through the lab and decided it was better to be circumcised. It was his conclusion that no amount of cleaning could rid the foreskin of all the bacteria that causes problems. It was a terribly painful operation and one I’d rather my kids have when their foreskin is 1/2 a cm and not an inch and a half long.
    I also support anything that can decrease transmission of disease. Circumcision has roughly the same rate of effectiveness as a vaccine (between 40-80% depending on the study). It’s all well and good to say ‘wear a condom’ but current rates of transmission of STI’s would suggest most people aren’t paying attention to the safe sex message (as much as I’ll educate, educate, educate them about using protection).
    I really think too much is made of this debate though. and that Elwyn is just, maybe, a little nutty…..

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    • Bradley

      You dare to criticise Elwyn ?

      Watch out for a stern response from Adam Hills !

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    • The Iron Lady

      Agree!! Love your comment. I’ve had my son done by Dr Russell (on 60minutes) too and will do any future sons. I’ve heard many stories of people not having it done and regretting it but have never heard of someone getting it done then wishing they hadn’t.

      I also find that usually people who get it done to their sons accept others decisions not to, but those who don’t get it done are often very vocal and harsh towards those that do. Let it go – you take care of your son and I’ll take care of mine.

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  14. Amandarose

    people lose worse things then foreskins- like limbs or breasts or toes.
    Think the gentleman in this article needs to move on- I can’t help but wonder if he thinks fixing his foreskin will fix his life.

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    • G.J.

      Completely agree. My opinion is that people who are unsatisfied often find little things to blame for their misery. A foreskin truly is not a big deal, whether it’s there or not. The majority of men, circumcised or not, are pretty darn pleased with their packages.

      I feel sorry for this guy, because this painful procedure may give him a temporary buzz but it will not restore his “sense of loss”. It is like people who think plastic surgery will give them a new lease of life, (and it does!) but soon afterwards they find they feel just as they did before and go looking for the next “improvement.”

      Reading that back, that sounds super judgmental. But these are thoughts based on my own life experiences and mistakes. If only it hadn’t taken ME so long to go looking for joy and peace from my Creator, (through Jesus!), and in the relationships I create with the precious people in my life. Nothing else will satisfy.

      Thus endeth my sermon :p

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    • james

      “people lose worse things than Labia- like limbs or breasts or toes.”

      Fixed

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  15. Guest

    We had our boy circumsised when he was about 4 days old. It was not an act of abuse. We had not lost control. We were not desperate or frustrated or unstable. We made an informed and legal choice. WIt was a procedure done in a hospital. It was clean and professional and safe. We are loving parents of a healthy thriving boy. To compare this to abuse takes away from victims who suffer real abuse. And it encourages fear and shame. I hope that Australia continues to promote the choice, if only to ensure that the procedure is done in a safe and supportive environment rather than in darkened rooms and who knows where else…
    Just a thought…

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  16. Guest 2

    No preference. Couldn’t care less. I have two sons, uncircumcised, simply because their father isn’t – but I had no strong objection to it. My brother is circumcised. That was the done thing back then. I consider both normal, and I really don’t see the problem.

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  17. sally bowles

    My son is 28 and I was see sawing whether to have it done or not and when I saw his perfect litte body after birth I decided no way was I going to subject him to this procedure. He has had no problems. Just teach them to wash as we do with little girls. Imagine if we decided to snip the labia minora to prevent future infections! I was surprised at the negative comments I got about not circumcising my son from family and friends. Why don’t people mind their own business? Did others encounter this? Seems to be the opposite now. I have had partners who have been cut and uncut and there is no difference in sex. I have known two guys both circumcised who have had stds so there goes that theory.

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  18. Yo

    I have said this many times before, including on Mamamia: I’ve never met a man who doesn’t think his cock is the best cock on Earth. ;-)

    If he’s circumcised, he thinks his cock is cleaner, prettier and smells nicer.

    If he’s uncircumcised, he thinks his cock is natural and beautiful.

    I agree with both standpoints, Maybe I just like cocks. ;-)

    I dare say the statistics of men wanting the opposite of what they’ve got would be about the same both ways – a small number of circumcised men would wish they weren’t circumcised as infants, and a small number of uncircumcised men would wish they were sans foreskin, and that it was done when they were a baby.

    Personally, I have a slight preference for a circumcised penis for various reasons – but, ultimately, it’s much of a muchness. I don’t have a son, but if I did, I would leave the decision up to my partner. If I were a single mum and it were up to me, I’d probably have my son circumcised.

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  19. Guest

    I find it hard to believe that “in Tasmania it’s banned altogether”. Can anyone confirm this? Apart from anything else, Tasmania has Muslims, Jews and Aborigines, all of whom have it done for cultural reasons. Given the history of persecuting Jewish rituals for anti semitic reasons I think we’d have heard something if this was the case, just as there was an uproar in Germany a few years ago about a similar proposal.

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    • LauraS

      I think that it’s banned is Tasmanian hospitals, not banned altogether? Jews have it done by a Rabbi, not a doctor.

      Maybe someone else could clarify.

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    • Wrong.

      Germany temporarily banning it was not done out of persecuting Jews with anti Semitic intent – it was banned for the same reason it is banned in Tasmanian hospitals – they found it to be a violation of the child’s rights to have an unnecessary medical operation performed on them before they are old enough to consent. Their courts debated this and considered the research and evidence of various other countries before forming this conclusion.

      It was a decision later overturned after a huge uproar by the Jewish community. The fact that it was a decision that the Jewish community did not like, does not make it an ‘anti semitic’ decision. It was a legal and ethical consideration by the courts.

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  20. Perry

    I bet every vocal advocate of infant male circumcision was circumcised when he was born. They never mention this when proselytizing.

    My brother was circumcised at the age of 18, on his doctor’s advice, due to problems with foreskin retraction. He said that years after he still lacks the sensitivity, and therefore pleasure, he had before the operation.

    Whatever, a male should be allowed to make this decision only when old enough to understand what it entails (no pun intended). Otherwise, it’s child abuse and should be treated as such.

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    • B

      Perry, my ex-boyfriend, a pathologist, elected to be circumcised at 26 due to an over-sensitivity as well as the insider-knowledge of exactly the types of disease and bacteria which is contained in the foreskin.
      After he had explained why circumcision was better, I have to admit, I’d never put an uncircumcised penis in my mouth again. Sorry…….

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      • KC

        Hope you don’t find a partner who refuses to put his mouth on your vulva for the same reasons.

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        • B

          KC, just to answer your comment, my husband loves to do it but I actually HATE it. I wouldn’t force anyone to do anything sexually that they don’t want to…. if cleanliness or smell is an issue for someone, why would you want them to? If they don’t care about it, then that’s up to them.

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  21. Leadlebeatle

    My 45yo brother says that he resents his circumcision (tonge in cheek) and he couldnt talk or walk for a year after he got it done 45 years ago!

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  22. Caz Gibson

    We don’t agree with circumcision unless there’s a compelling medical reason to have it done.

    Babies & children have the right to not have it done (without their permission) too.

    The more you read about the history of male & female circumcision, the more you realise how invasive & wrong it is.

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  23. D

    I watched 60 minutes last night and after it was over asked both my sons, aged 19 and 16, who are both circumcised, if they thought we had assaulted them by removing their foreskin.They both looked at me as though I was crazy. My husband wanted his sons circumcised, I had no opinion really because as I always say, I don’t have a penis, I use my husbands!! I think that circumcision is a personal choice, just like abortion.

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    • darren

      ask the same question to a young man who feels he cant enjoy sex because of loss of feeling, or the boy who died during the operation. as for abortion try having the choice to not get pregnant.

      when did respect for human life disappear…..

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      • Me

        Darren all your posts sound very bitter and angry – sure you aren’t Elywn from 60 minutes?

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  24. Susy

    I never got my son circumcised I liken this to a form of child abuse I never got my daughter done either. We taught him cleanliness at all times. He is now 30 and no problems.We decided this after my husband had it done as a baby and bled for days needless to say I could not inflict this on my child. Now I know I will get hailed down re the child abuse term but if its not to save a life then why do it.

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  25. Anon58

    One of my nephews was circumcised and there were complications. It has left him with terrible consequences. He is now grown and this made his life awfully hard.

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  26. amber21

    My husband is circumcised and I asked him if he felt robbed or has suffered any sort of trauma as a result and he said No. Firstly if done when a baby they don’t remember secondly how can you really feel robbed? its not like the penis doesn’t function in the same way. Our decision to get our son done when he was a baby was because too many friends son’s had HAD to have it done later in life and was extremely painful and took longer to recover. My son barely cried and we never had a problem days after he was done. Usually if your done as a baby its generally that the other males in your family have also been done so how would you even know from a young age “something was missing” My son is now 6 and he doesn’t know that some people aren’t circumcised! He’s too young to be looking and comparing penis’. When there are health benefits not only for the men but for their future partners Im all for it. Lets face it teenage boys especially can’t be trusted to shower regularly let alone clean their foreskin effectively!

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    • Reason for that...

      They usually don’t cry because they are in shock.

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      • Me again

        Did the babies tell you that?

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    • Huh?

      Why can’t teenage boys be trusted to clean their penis properly? That’s a bit of a generalisation.

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      • vanessayoung

        I wouldn’t say it was a generalization, I’d say it was the voice of experience!
        Having nursed elderly gentlemen who were no longer able to care for themselves, I am in favour of circumcision. However,when I had my son, I left it up to my husband to decide. I felt uncomfortable making the decision, not being a man.
        I think the decision should be the parent’s because these things go in and out of fashion with doctors. Male circumcision is carried out for very different reasons than female circumcision and I do not think that the two can be discussed as if they were the same issue.

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    • Faybian

      Dunno about that one. My son is not a model of hygiene and has not admitted to any problems there (and he is an over sharer).

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  27. Gill

    Just going to put it out there; I love a circumcised penis. I think they’re cleaner, and safer, more attractive — I’d much rather put one of those in my mouth.
    Needless to say, if I ever have boys, they will be circumcised..

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    • Gill

      I should add, my partner was circumcised at age 8 due to infections. He remembers it being semi-painful but much better once it was gone. I’d rather my child have this done as a baby, with minimal trauma, as opposed to going through it later in life with more pain!

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      • Susy

        Yeah babies have not feelings do they.

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        • Ma

          Babies have feelings but they can breast feed and nurse when they feel pain. 8 year olds are a bit young for heavy drugs and too old for breast feeds

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    • Elaine fan

      OMG- this reminds me of the Seinfeld episode of the bris and Elaine saying “They have no face, no personality”

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    • Kathy W

      ‘cleaner’? Clean in what way? Are you suggesting that uncircumcised men are somehow disgusting and filthy because they have a bit of skin on their penis? Seriously…

      I’d much rather an uncircumcised penis than a guy with a beard. After all, a shaven face is much cleaner.

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      • Gill

        Yes. I’d rather rub my face in a sexy beard. So shoot me. Msyne it’s just me but I’ve seen some FOUL uncircumcised penises. That, and it’s a fact they generally carry less bacteria.

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        • Kathy W

          You’ve seen some FOUL uncircumcised penises?? Well, I’ve seen plenty of FOUL circumcised penises too….some men just don’t wash – that’s all it comes down to. It’s got nothing to do with a small bit of skin – but plenty to do with hygeine.

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      • Anonymous

        Being circumcised does reduce the risk of urinary tract infections significantly so it probably does make them cleaner! My son has a condition which caused him to have recurrent urinary tract infections as a baby so we had him circumcised at 9 months old on the advice of our paediatrican and so far he hasn’t had anymore. I never planned to have him circumcised but we made the decision to circumcise purely to avoid these urinary tract infections which could lead to kidney damage for him in the future.

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        • SoMuchSerenity

          I used to get UTI’s all. the. time. with my ex boyfriend who was un circumcised… With my hubby now who is circumcised I have had practically no UTI’s in 14 years.

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          • neola

            It’s all just anectdotal, though, not enough to base such a big decision on. My dad’s circumcised and my mum has ALWAYS had UTI’s when they have sex (yes, we overshare as a family…)

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    • Pinto

      Well I guess it’s okay as long as you’re doing it because it will be more attractive. Give me strength!

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      • Gill

        As I said, aesthetically yes I like them more, but the other reasons mentioned would be the reason I’d opt for it to be done. The rest is a bonus.

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  28. Zoe Childers

    I have been on both sides of this debate. When my first son was born we chose not to get him circumcised and all was going well until he turned 3 and the infections started :( My husband and I did everything in our power to keep him clean plus educating him along the way. We found sandpits were the worst places for him to pick up infections and you could imagine how difficult it was to keep a young boy out of a sandpit. Each infection was as traumatic as the last. When he was 6 years old he got a really bad infection and ended up hospitalized from it. My poor little baby was in so much pain and anguish and I was left completely helpless in doing anything for him. In a way I was feeling like it was all my fault because I didn’t get him circumcised as a baby :( He ended up having to have an emergency circumcision as his penis became so swollen he could no longer urintate and his doctor was worried about his kidneys. To this day my son is traumatised by the experience and he remembers it like it was yesterday. I have had another little boy since and without hesitation I had him circumcised at 7 weeks old. The procedure was quick, he cried no more than when he got his immunisations and he healed very well (much quicker and easier than his older brother did that is for sure). I can be rest assured that he is never going to have to go through what his big brother went through (years of pain finished with a painful operation), plus the mental scars that have been left behind.
    I know alot of you argue why mess with nature and believe me I was under the same opinion prior to having children. But unfortunately nature got it wrong with my son and there was no way I was going to let nature get it wrong again with my second child so I took my childs health out of natures hands and put it in my own and decided to circumcise.
    I get very upset by comments saying that cicumcision is mutilation and child abuse. No one has the right to say such a thing until they have lived what my son and us as parents have lived.

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    • Guest

      We are in a similar situation with our 6 year old son. After 4 years of infections, we are about to have our son circumcised. I feel horrible that it has taken this long, but we saw 4 or 5 GPs before we could get a referral. Thankfully medically required circumcision isn’t banned in Tassie, where we live.
      If we have another boy, I think I would prefer to have it done when he is a newborn just to avoid the trauma that my elder son is about to face.

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      • Zoe Childers

        Very similar situations. I am glad you are finally getting something done about it. It unfortunately took my son to become seriously ill before any action was taken. The whole situation was disgraceful each doctor I would go to would prescribe antibiotics and yes the infection would disapear for a short amount of time but it would be back before too long, this went on for years :( . I believe my son built up a resistance to the antibiotics that is why he ended up so incredibly ill.
        I totally understand your feelings about circumcising a future baby boy and like I said we had it done to our baby with no hesitation whatsoever. Its a shame that you will have to leave your state to get it done though.
        Good luck with your son’s procedure, as hard as it will be for him and you be rest assured he will not be bothered again from another infection.

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  29. chillax

    I’m all for whatever floats your boat. If its there its quite likely meant to be there and thats what we’ve gone with for our sons but if you want your son to be circumcised thats your right to choose and who knows, it may be the right thing for everyone to do.
    As for the guys who want their foreskin back??? Personally I think other issues are going on here and perhaps a good pyschologist is the answer.

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    • Ash

      I agree with all of the above. Obviously it’s impossible to know whether it’s the case for every man who feel this way, since they are all individuals, but perhaps it’s similar to body dysmorphia (in that it’s a fixation on a body part which interferes negatively with quality of life).

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  30. Anon this time

    The first cut one I ever saw was my husbands, all the ones before were undone. It was so odd to me, there was a bit missing! And I didn’t know how to use this one – the foreskin was a part of the act before that.

    He isn’t unhappy or traumatised but he does feel ripped off. His parents were really conflicted with him as he has older brothers who were done but by the time he came along they weren’t keen. They ended up doing it and he understands that being the same as your brothers (38 years ago) was an alright reason.

    I didn’t get my son done and think its madness. My kids have had operations, tonsils out, testicle brought down where it belongs etc. But to have cosmetic surgery on a newborn is jsut totally bizarre to me. If it stops working, then go to the doctor and consider otpions but I didn’t get my daughters appendix, tonsils and adenoids out at birth ‘just in case they got infected’ so why woulduse that as reason with a foreskin?

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  31. MrsF

    I’ve decided to leave this decision up to my husband. I don’t have a penis, so I don’t really feel qualified.

    My husband is very pro-circumcision. He was not done as a baby (born in the UK) but had to be done later for medical reasons, and has a lot more scarring and probably loss of sensitivity (hard to judge that one, but the extra scarring would point to that) and traumatic memories than someone done routinely as a newborn.

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    • Chop it!

      Thats the way I see it, much worse to have it done later in life when its more painful and more tramatic. Little baby’s dont know and wont remember anything.

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      • Aimee W

        They also can’t consent

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      • Dumbfounded

        I cannot believe anyone can say, just because you can’t remember it, you aren’t traumatised!! Cutting off the skin of a baby or adult is the same level of trauma. And pain. Violence at such a young age will be imprinted on this person forever.

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        • Guest

          I’m sorry, but I just don’t believe the majority of circumcised men out there are traumatised by their experience. It’s pure and utter hyperbole. Until you show me the multitudes of comprehensive studies and statistics, I don’t buy it.

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        • Johnno

          Violence? Utter nonsense, Dumbfounded

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        • Quokka

          You must go ballistic over ear piercing!

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    • Johnno

      What does being born in the UK have to do with it? I was born in the UK and I was done. I don’t know why or when (I canlt remember it) but it has never bothered me.

      Said equipment has never let me down … and that’s all that matters to me, to be honest. ;-)

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  32. LaLaLauren

    Who cares what anyone else does. Its your child do whatever the hell you want. Its no one elses business. This debate is pointless, much like the breastfeed vs bottlefeed, everyone has a different opinion and at the end of the day you do what you think is best as the parent. Move on everyone, there will be no end to this dragged out, pointless argument.

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    • whatevs

      Well said Lala, could not agree more with you :)

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  33. H

    I’ve had 2 boyfriends whom i’ve seen naked. One was circumsised, the other was not. My dad is and my brother is not. My brother used to get a tight foreskin though (i don’t know what that means, i just remember my mum talking to him about it). If i had a son, I’m pretty sure i’d just leave things as nature intended them to be. As for the boyfriends, i don’t really care if a guy is or isn’t, i’m kinda more interested in the sex, not whether he has a foreskin or not!!

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  34. Natasha

    I am completely against circumcision. I just don’t see the need for it. But to go so far as to call it sexual abuse undermines REAL sexual abuse.

    When I found out i was having my son there was no question that we would ever consider getting him circumcised. So imagine my horror when shortly after his birth I found out due to medical complications he was going to need to be circumcised. He has started kindy this year and I know it is just a matter if time before some school friend points out that his penis is different from other boy’s. At least I will be able to explain to my son about his condition – imagine being a parent and having to answer something along the lines of “we thought it looked better” or “daddy has one like that”. Just weird!

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    • dan

      I’m in the same position as you, I was totally against circumcision and had to put up with many critical comments from my pro-circ in-laws. Then at 5 months my son was diagnosed with urinary reflux and had to be circumcised. I feel horrible that he will be the odd one out among his friends.

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  35. Mum of boys.

    We chose not to circumcise our boys despite the fact that my husband is circumcised. Our eldest son did need a circumcisions after many years of infections but we still don’t regret our decision. The human body is not perfect, and just like appendixes, there will be times when circumcisions is medical required but until then, I say leave the body the way it was designed.

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  36. Kylie Macri

    I am a mum of 4 boys and 1 girl … I could never do this to my boys …. If it wasn’t supposed to be there it wouldn’t … My husband is not done either but I wouldn’t have done it anyway… I have never had one of my boys ever have a problem and anyone that’s says its unclean is full of crap!

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  37. Me

    Putting aside religious reasons – that’s a different matter – why would anyone circumise their child? I just asked my uncircumcised husband (who, by the way, is always clean and fresh as a daisy) if he has to go to great lengths to clean it or if he’s any had any problems and his response was a clear ‘no’. He’s never had a UTI – and thanks to condoms and a tendency to keep it in his pants, he doesn’t have any STIs either.

    You’re born with it. It doesn’t cause any more problems than any other part of the human anatomy. It’s mutilation. It’s surgery. It desensitises. Explain to me again why the heck anyone would want to do it?

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    • Ash

      In terms of disease it’s not just cleanliness that’s important. The foreskin contains an extremely high concentration of immune cells which increase the odds of contracting and/or spreading viruses like HIV, which depend on immune cells to survive.

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  38. Samir

    Read this and some of the comments especially about Mr Morris https://theconversation.edu.au/male-circumcision-policy-ignores-research-showing-benefits-8395
    More generally here https://theconversation.edu.au/pages/circumcision
    This is news about the news?

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  39. Diane

    Didn’t get my son done despite the fact that my husband is – honestly, how often was he going to be showing our son his penis anyway?? – and although the hospital was pretty laid back about it, they said it wasn’t “routine” so that helped.

    But labelling it sexual abuse? Really?? Doesn’t that diminish the very real suffering of the children who are ACTUALLY being abused??

    I think everyone needs to just take a deep breath and think about what they’re saying because honestly, that take on this issue is just pissing me off!

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  40. No cuts

    I think it’s barbaric. We call it genital mutilation when it’s done to young girls, but think it’s acceptable to do it to boys? It’s a religious thing, which has been become mainstream thanks to some biassed studies. But for every study supporting it, there’s a study that does not. Women get breast cancer as a higher rate than men get genital cancer, but we don’t remove boobs as a preventative. As for a ‘lower rate’ of STDs, if you think removing part of a child’s body will do that, then you are giving them a false sense of security. Teach them to use a condom and wash themselves properly, it’s a no brainer. No one should be circumcised unless there is a genuine medical problem, or until the child is old enough to decide for himself.

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    • Matilda

      I HATE it when people compare female genital mutilation with male circumcision. While I agree with your arguements against male circumcision, the Male equivelant of FGM would be cutting off the entire penis. With FGM often the whole clitoris and inner labia is removed and outer labia ‘sewn up’ what I see as an attack on female sexuality – rendering them unable to orgasm or experience a satisfying sex life. This a whole other arguement! But I think i get my point across.

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      • Crackerpants

        As you say – “often”. But “often” FGM is a ritual nick to the hood of the clitoris. There’s a whole spectrum of FGM, so it can either be much, much worse than, or not as bad as, male circumcision.

        Where they are the same, though, is that they both have their foundations in religion and deep-seated traditions, and absolute denial of the child’s right of consent. Male circumcision has moved on to encompass medical reasons (I’m personally unconvinced, but at least some thought and research has been put into this) which are more legitimate, and social reasons like looking like Daddy, which is frankly ridiculous.

        I believe that there are some moral absolutes in this world, including the right of the child to give consent, and the obligation not to do harm. Where parents are giving consent by proxy, it should only be because by doing harm, a greater harm resulting from doing nothing is avoided.

        If we removed everything that *may* become infected, we’d be nothing but hair, fingernails and the air in our lungs.

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      • Sharon

        There are diffrent types of FGM this was part of an Insight program the other night which some consider that it empowers women I dont get it either but then I dont get MGM either.

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      • TheMamaCat

        Totally agree, Matilda, and you’ve explained it very well. It makes me see red when people conflate the two procedures.

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  41. Bradley

    Is Elwyn considering taking his parents to court for mutilating his manhood ?

    That hasn’t been discussed.

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    • Sami

      Towards the beginning of the article it states – “Elwyn doesn’t blame his parents – he says they did the best they could for their son at the time”. So I guess not…

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    • Anonymous

      I suspect a missing foreskin is only the tip of Elwyn’s issues.

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  42. Not for us!

    I have never seen the need for infant circumcision. It just defies logic.

    One thing I often find interesting, is when I read parents who say “We had our son circumcised, and we don’t regret it”. Really??? Yeah, your child is 3 or 6 years old now. Not old enough to know the difference or have issues with his foreskin being taken away without his permission, later in life. *You* don’t have any regrets???

    It’s an old fashioned practice. Just like they used to take all kids tonsils out in case they got tonsillitis. We’ve moved beyond that. Besides, if us women can deal with our complex bits, why is it any harder for a man? Are these parents doubting their son’s intelligence. And, it’s all out there in front for him to deal with anyway. It’s not like he has to dig around to find anything. It’s not that hard to clean it!

    Or the other comment; “We had my son done because I think it looks better”. Why?? Why are you looking at your infant son’s penis in that way?? Bizarre!

    Or another comment from a school mate’s Facebook page “Oh, I did not have to go in. That was a relief” to which she received additionally amazing replies “Oh yes, harder for mummy than for the baby. He will be fine”. Harder for mummy?? What? I don’t understand that logic either. What about the baby for goodness sake?

    And no, the plastibell does not make it any better. The baby’s foreskin still permanently gone.

    Or parents who say “It was so hard to find a Doctor to do it. I don’t know why?” screams clearly uninformed on the matter.

    My mother was a Midwife for over 40 years and has seen all the cycles on this. As an experienced medical professional who has witnessed circumcision trends over a few decades, she is strongly against it.

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    • Registered Nurse

      As someone who is training in midwifery currently I have yet to meet any midwives who are pro circumcision! It’s just unnecessary

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    • Mum of 2

      With respect, I’m not sure a midwife is the best person to go on with regards to whether benefits outweigh negative effects of circumcision. I LOVED my midwives, and still think of them fondly when I think of my childrens births (and yes I know they aren’t just around for the births, but for the first few days afterwards). But would I take advice from them on longer term aspects of my kids healths? Do they know about what speech therapy a child may or may not need? Do they know about whether they will need grommets etc? What about whether they need orthotics for their feet?

      I don’t take my child to an ENT to ask about their feet, or a dermatologist to ask about gastrointestinal symptoms. Medical professionals specialise, and whilst I think most midwives are angels in uniforms, I don’t believe that I would place my whole decision on whether something may be good for a child in ten, twenty etc years time based on what a midwife says. They are very good at their job, but can not hope to be good at every aspect of medicine – no one can. I would be looking more broadly to make my decision.

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    • Faybian

      Ive seen a lot of genitals in my career. First as a nurse in a urology ward, where a limited amount of mostly young men had circumcisions for phimosis. Later as the midwife, holding down baby boys for circumcisions (not fun) and later in paediatrics for elective circumcisions and as a child health nurse seeing healing circumcision sites. They do look pretty gritty while healing, but mostly do alright. I have given a lot of parents terry Russell’s phone number (and one of his colleagues) for circumcisions or tongue tie snips. For my own son, I haven’t done it and so far so good. I do read the latest research regularly so that I can advise parents non judge mentally. Personally I don’t see the need though.

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  43. Miles

    As a circumsized male I would not go to the extremes needed to restretch my foreskin but as I see it genital multilation is genital mutilation. Should not be legal unless medically required.

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  44. Cath

    My husband wasn’t done so when we had our son I said it was up to him to teach our son to clean etc. I had reasons that included a family member requiring a circumcision later in life for wanting our son done but ultimately I went with my husband’s choice. That said my husband was only not done because he was born in the UK had he been born here I am sure he would have been done given his age and the generation.

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  45. Anonymous

    Is it just me or is the circumcision “debate” being made into way more than it needs to be? Seriously, it’s not that big a deal. The only affect it really has is to the appearance (and possibly sensitivity, but it means you last longer so I don’t see the problem) and, let’s face it, Penises are ugly; circumcised or not. And comparing it to vaccination is INSANE.

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    • Bradley

      No. It is not just you.

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    • Pinto

      Unfortunately it’s not just you.

      It’s mutilation and it astounds me that people don’t see it as such. Should only be done when medically required.

      You think they are ugly and I find this statement so rude – assuming you are a woman do you find it perfectly acceptable if others were to say ‘let’s face it – vaginas are ugly’. I have a feeling you wouldn’t be so happy about that..

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  46. Anonymous

    Imagine now having your clitoral hood removed and the clitoris chafing on your underwear – ouch! I suppose it too would grow callused over time. Yes I would feel shortchanged too. Not to mention I worship my other half’s foreskin. There would be so much less to play with if it had been cut off….

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  47. Elsie

    We asked the doctors and nurses for information when our son was born – when I queried the fact that he could have problems later on in life, the Doctor’s response was the decider for me and we did not proceed:
    “You don’t take out a child’s appendix when they are a baby just in case they get appendicitis when they are older.”

    My preference is uncut, though my husband is circumcised.

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  48. Bradley

    This really comes across as some of pseudo-political debate. They used to say that the circumsized penis was the indication of the male’s religion. In years to come, perhaps it will signify which way the male’s parents voted.

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  49. Anonymous

    My husband roared with laughter during the 60 minutes piece at the thought that he had been sexually abused. I questioned who the women are that are giving uncircumsized men BJ’s

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    • Zepgirl

      I’d say that they’re probably women who don’t find oral sex on an uncircumcised man to be no different than on one who is circumcised.

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      • Zepgirl

        ‘Any’ different that is. Too many negatives in that statement.

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    • Sami

      My boyfriend is uncircumcised, as have all my previous partners been… and I love going down on him. I don’t see why that would make a difference… As long as they wash themselves, it shouldn’t be a problem – I’m sure there are plenty of unhygienic circumcised guys out there.

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    • Anonymous

      I would suggest that no-one should be giving blow jobs to men that do not wash. Circumcised or not. Also, as the foreskin retracts once the penis is hard it really doesn’t make much of a difference.

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    • neola

      You what?! I’d be offended but I’m too busy laughing and enjoying my partner exactly as he is.

      Imagine a man refusing to go down on any woman who hadn’t had her clitoral hood snipped because of some misguided notion that this was the indicator of hygiene. He sounds like a bit of a jerk, no?

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  50. Mum of two cheeky monkeys

    As a cultural issue, this fascinates me. I have a son and a daughter, my son is 3 and not circumcised. For us the evidence was just not compelling enough to put our baby through major surgery. I know the pros and cons, we did the research, we sought out doctors opinions and considered their comments with a degree of scepticism on both sides. I fully understand both sides of the argument and I fully support every parent’s decision to do whatever they think is right for their child, regardless of anyone else’s opinion.

    Surely, this is not just a medical issue but a cultural issue. How else can the same research be interpreted so differently in similar cultures? In the UK circumcision is basically non-existant. In the US there are very few babies that are not circumcised. In Australia, we oscillate to and fro depending on the research of the day. So, certainly, culture plays a part in the decision of the parents.

    And, speaking of culture, people commonly compare circumcision to Female Genital Mutilation, which is where Dr Mason is headed by saying circumcision is a form of assault. I absolutely believe it is different to FGM. For many reasons. Lack of medical reasons for one. Lack of medical training in those performing the act. Ongoing discomfort, trauma and medical issues caused by FGM. None of these are true for male circumcision. But first and foremost, the intention is completely different. The intent of FGM is to control the sexuality of their daughter. There is no other reason I can see for performing something so traumatic on a small girl. The intent of parents who get their sons circumcised is usually for hygiene and preventative medical reasons – I don’t agree with their particular interpretation of the research, but it isn’t my child and therefore it isn’t my decision. They do have valid reasons.

    What I find fascinating is where this debate is headed. I imagine there will be a time when more people find circumcision to be ‘barbaric’ (not my opinion, just to be clear.) The evolution of cultural parenting theories never ceases to amaze me.

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    • Lily

      There is no way circumcision is considered ‘major surgery’. It literally takes 5 minutes and healing time is 3-5 days.
      Bit dramatic to call it that for the sake of an argument,

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      • Mum of two cheeky monkeys

        He would have had to have a general if he was done after 6-8 weeks. That was major enough for me. I hardly think I was being dramatic in my response having read some of the other comments.

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        • Lily

          Again, you are incorrect. My own son was done at 10 months for reasons that are no ones business, and it was done under local administered in his thigh. He seemingly recovered immediately, and was up and walking around straight away.
          So definitely not major surgery and even if it is done under general, I still think calling it major surgery is, yes, dramatic, when you consider other ‘major surgeries’ such as organ transplant and open heart operations.

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          • Anon

            Actually, we were told the same thing about needing a general anaesthetic after a certain age by a doctor as well.

            There are always risks involved in having a general anaesthetic. If a child is going to need an “unnecessary” general I would have to think long and hard about why I would be prepared to do that.

            My two sons are uncircumcised. We decided that if they need to be circumcised for medical reasons one day, well, we’ll deal with that if we have to. Otherwise we’ll leave them as nature intended.

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          • Mum of two cheeky monkeys

            With respect, we did the research and yes, it would have been a general anaesthetic at the time we would have had it done in the area we would have had it done in, so, no I’m not wrong. And yes, I do consider removing a body part to be major surgery. There are many types of major surgery that aren’t organ transplants. Glad your happy with your decision. So am I. I considered the alternative to be major. You don’t get to tell me otherwise.

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    • Simone

      Don’t forget the number one reason that baby boys are circumcised in Australia. To match their Daddy. I know it’s not as insidious as ‘sexual control’ but it’s nonetheless inane.

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      • Mum of two cheeky monkeys

        Simone, I agree. Not a reason I would use either, but definitely not the same as FGM.

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      • Anon

        Really? After reading the comments here it seems many do it for medical reasons!

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