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Screen shot 2012 05 15 at 12.52.59 PM 380x212 Runaway kids found by police after property raid

Laura with her children. Photo: Courier Mail

UPDATE [May 22]

Police have raided a Queensland property, locating the four missing children and their great grandma who was hiding them after a protracted, international custody dispute. The girls’ mother had been ordered to return them to Italy so that the custody matters might be heard in the local courts.

Update:

The Judge who made orders for the children to return to Italy has said his orders still stand. He has declined to hear further applications from the family and said he suspects the children’s relatives are in contempt of court for hiding the children.

He said the children’s relatives should be brought to court to swear on oath about their whereabouts.

To clarify yesterday’s article, the Family Court previously found the father did not give his permission for the family to flee. The family did leave Italy with the help of Australian officials, however they reportedly did not make it clear why they were leaving.

Since yesterday, the children have released handwritten letters claiming they wish to stay in Australia.

A Brisbane judge has re-iterated that the children would be returned to Italy to have the case heard under its jurisdiction.

Four sisters aged 9-14. As you read this, they’re currently on the run, somewhere in Australia.

The four girls, aged 14, 13, 10 and 9, were whisked away from Italy two years ago by their Australian mother Laura because her Italian husband (the girls’ father) was allegedly physically abusive toward them all for years (according to Laura). But in the last few days, the Family Court here ordered the girls return to Italy for the matter to be heard.

The court ruled the four children must board a flight back to Italy by 12.01am this Wednesday. The girls said they would have to be ‘sedated and physically removed’ from their mother before they went voluntarily.

Why? Because Laura allegedly took them from Italy and Australia is a signatory to the Hague Convention anti child abduction treaty. That treaty over-rides many practical protections of Australian law.

Mother Laura (who is Australian) claims it was not an abduction because they left the country with her husband’s permission … but then he changed his mind. The Federal Court found this was not the case and that the father thought his children were going on a holiday.

The Judgment reads: “In fact, the documents put into evidence by the mother support a finding that the mother grew more and more desperate to remove herself and her four children permanently from Italy through 2009 and the first half of 2010. When a person becomes desperate, whether with objective justification or not, they can sometimes consider that the desired end result justifies all means, however desperate.”

One of the children wrote on the family’s Facebook page this week: “I remember Mum coming to pick us up from school and she had a bruise on her face and she told us that she was splitting up from dad and told us that he hit her. I dont [sic] actually remember that well but I do remember that I would always hear her screaming. After that, Mum said we had to move and she found a house in Pontassieve and so we started living there but we went on the weekend to our Dad’s house,” .

Laura soon left the country altogether with her four daughters.

They’ve been living with Laura’s family on the Sunshine Coast. The girls have all re-settled and been doing well at school, their grandma says. But recently, their father came to Brisbane to take his daughters back to Italy, allegedly against their wishes and the wishes of their mother.

Now, faced with the order for the girls to return to Italy, things have suddenly escalated. The children’s 70-year-old great grandmother Carol picked them up from school this week and helped them run away. The four girls and their Great Grandmother have been officially declared ‘missing’ by Queensland Police.

The clock is ticking.

“I will go to jail if that’s what it takes to protect those kids,” Carol said to the Courier Mail from an undisclosed location.

Carol’s daughter Kate is the children’s grandmother (and mother of Laura – are you following?) and she’s been marshaling the media, the government and the police in this situation that has blown out to a full-scale search for the children.

“They were scared out of their wits, the children were hysterical so my Mum [Carol] took them,” she told Mamamia this afternoon.

“She knows the police are after them.”

Kate told 4BC Radio in Brisbane that her daughter Laura phoned her when she realised she was being made to hand her kids over.

“She could barely speak, she was distraught,” she said.

The family’s Facebook page had this update yesterday:

“The children are in a safe place and they’re being looked after. Thank you all for your support so far, please keep it up. We need to keep pursuing this until the girls can be heard and until we can find a legal representative who can help them.”

The family has petitioned everyone it can, running a frantic social media campaign to raise awareness. Local MPs have written letters to the Prime Minister, help has been sought from Queensland Premier Campbell Newman whose Department of Communities is handling the case.

The Australian Federal Police are investigating. There are just hours remaining on the deadline to have the children handed to their father at Brisbane Airport.

Laura pleaded with the Prime Minister today: “At this last minute I beg the Prime Minister to put a hold on the passports and so they can be heard and not have their human rights violated and handcuffed and sedated at the airport and forced on a plane for somewhere they don’t want to go,” she said.

This story is developing and will be updated.

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235 Comments so far

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  2. Conway

    And finally, 60 minutes exposes the truth.

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  3. THIS WILL HELP ALL YOU PEOPLE

    i am a 15 yr old girl and i have a similar situation with my younger sister and brotehr. we are aged between 10-15 and children do not lie. We also are not stupid and know where a place is safer and we know if a parent is abusive or not. My dad is very abusive and there has been a court case for 7yrs and we just cant go. One day he will kill us and thats the truth. I know there is some kinks in this story but we know that the girls are refusing for some reason. I mean they are kicking and screaming. They are not just acting. We need to help them somehow even hough i have no idea how. Imagine if it was your children or imagine YOU are the child. You would do anything.

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  4. Pingback: Name ‘em, shame ‘em, blame who? « James Fettes

  5. In The Know

    That Ms F was verbally advised by the solicitor acting for the mother earlier today that she had been contacted yesterday by senior counsel acting for the mother – that is on Sunday, 13 May 2012 – and told by him that he had been contacted by a Ms X Garning, who is the maternal grandmother of the four girls, namely the respondent mother’s own mother. Mr Page was reported by Ms Feeney to have told Ms Feeney that the maternal grandmother, Ms X Garning, informed him of a meeting that was to take place this afternoon, Monday, 14 May, and that if the meeting was not successful that she would murder the children. Ms Feeney reported to Ms F that senior counsel had also told her that the maternal grandmother, Ms X Garning, had told him in that same conversation that she would encourage her daughter, Ms Garning – that is, the respondent mother – to kill herself too. Family Court of Australia

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  6. In The Know

    Anonymous, Like to quote court docs then how about this part.
    Grand mother riang the mothers legal team and told head of defence team that if things didn’t go their way she would murder the children and the mother should kill herself. That was 13th May. Judge at the Family court investigated this after being informed by her legal team and confermed that it was true and very worrying. thats why she sacked her legal team. Because unlike her thay don’t break the law. Is this the person you want your kids with. Check your facts.

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  7. Courtneey

    I don’t belive that the girls would be telling the truth…
    it is easy to come up with a lie if your mother makes you believe that something needs to happen.
    I know that I would lie for my mother and if she told me somthing that needed to be told I wouldnt hesitate for that to happen…To me it seems like the Father is a loving man that wants his children back and he will do anything for that. But there has to be a reason why they don’t want to go home, but people all around the world have an effect on the way that there children are brought up.

    I personally feel sorry for there father and the girls need to learn that he would do anything for them and that they should go home to Italy

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    • Anonymous

      You didnt see the comment in the courier mail/ the mother holds his medical records fro a mental hospitaal statig he suffers from ongoing chronic psychoses! want yur kids with him? Also in one of the brisbane papers or maybeb it was those transcript or court documents someone published, the littlest girl said both yes, she would like to go back to italy & yes she thought it was a holiday …. she was not asked, want to go back to italy & never see mummy again …..and the media reported the mother saying, yes of course the little ones were told they were going for a fun holiday …. not what the older girls told the court counsellor who didnt report what they had said though …. more than meets the eye .remember the court didnt ever even see the document proving every word the mother said ..!

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  8. Anon

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/93591333/Department-of-Communities-amp-Garning-2011-FamCA-485-23-June-2011

    Interesting read regarding the court proceedings.

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  9. Alice

    I’ll start by saying that I don’t know if this man was abusive or not. For all I know he’s a loving father who’s had his kids stolen.

    However, I used to work at a DV law firm in NY, and we very often had mothers fleeing to or from Amercia with their children because it was the only way they could save themselves and/or their children from being beaten, raped or murdered. They were doing the best thing they could think of to protect their children.

    We don’t know the facts or details of what has actually occured here. It’s great that commentators won’t condemn the father without evidence – but why are they so quick to condemn the mother without evidence? She might be a selfish bitch who’s giving the bird to the law and her ex. Or she might be a brave and resourceful DV survivor, doing the best thing she can think of to protect her children. Why does one person deserve defending (without the facts) and one deserves condemnation (without the facts)?

    I think we need to be consistent here. If we conceed that we don’t know the facts (eg whether or not there was abuse, whether or not he consented to a “holiday” or a relocation, etc) then I don’t see how we can so definitively condemn either party.

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    • Anonymous

      The kids were telling their friends they were going on holidays for a month. And there were no comments about child abuse until her first appeal failed. Something reeks.

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      • Alice

        The kids might not have known the arrangement with the parents – who knows? The kids also say their mum had a black eye, which suggests she’s being truthful about the abuse.

        I agree that we don’t have the full picture and I’m not defending anyone’s actions, but it’s all speculation at this point. I just find it curious and disappointing that people shoot down one party on the basis of lack of proof (“how do we know he’s abusive?”), yet defend the other party without proof (how do we know he didn’t agree? How do we know she’s not acting to save her kids?). I don’t think we should be personally attacking either parties character without knowing the facts – that’s all :)

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        • Anonymous

          The kids said their Mum had a black eye? Wow that proves he was abusive to her.

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          • David

            From the court judgement, the father became depressed after the death of one of their children. He did hit her once, something referred to as a “single serious incedent” in the court papers. So yes, he was abusive towards her.

            They subsequently divorced in 2007. The father sought treatment for his depression and was successfully medicated. There have been no claims of abuse since 2007 and the father had custody of his daughters every weekend by court order.

            There has never been any claims of abuse by the father against his daughters until this court case in Australia. Even the girls claimed that he hadn’t abused them in the first interview they had with a psychologist (that the mother selected) for the court proceedings.

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            • Kate

              Not at all true, documented comment from one girl that he broke her thumb when she was trying to protect herself from a beating, another time when he cut plaster off a broken ankle & bet her in the head until she would walk on it, the eldest girl rang 4BC & spoke to a lawyer & said she was afraid he would hurt them again if they were mde to return with him & also doccumented that he had been drinking when he tok a child on his otor bike with sorts & shirt & crashed it … not exactly what you’d consider no claims of abuse

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            • Kate

              Not at all true, documented comment from one girl that he broke her thumb when she was trying to protect herself from a beating, another time when he cut plaster off a broken ankle & bet her in the head until she would walk on it, the eldest girl rang 4BC & spoke to a lawyer & said she was afraid he would hurt them again if they were mde to return with him & also documented that he had been drinking when he tok a child on his otor bike with sorts & shirt & crashed it … not exactly what you’d consider no claims of abuse

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            • Kate

              Not at all true, documented comment from one girl that he broke her thumb when she was trying to protect herself from a beating, another time when he cut plaster off a broken ankle & bet her in the head until she would walk on it, the eldest girl rang 4BC & spoke to a lawyer & said she was afraid he would hurt them again if they were mde to return with him & also documented that he had been drinking when he took a child on his otor bike with sorts & shirt & crashed it … not exactly what you’d consider no claims of abuse

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          • Anonymous

            Not too many children lie about a parent being abused. It’s THAT simple. A children generally doesn’t make up “realistic” lies. Yes they might say there is a dinosaur in the backyard but not that daddy hits mummy and she cries. Sorry, it just doesn’t happen. I’ve worked for DOCS and similar and in general, kids don’t lie.

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            • Sammy

              When were the children abused? Why has that tidbit only come out now that her appeal was rejected?

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            • Hmmm

              You overestimate a child’s ability to resist remembering what they have been told by three generations of family members over two years. I’m not saying that is what’s happened here….but it’s well documented throughout family law cases that it happens all too often.

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        • Francine

          Well said Alice

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      • Anonymous

        There is legal proof both in Australia and in Italy that he was abusive toward the girls. Hospital records, including where he wouldn’t adhere to their strict diets due to illness and allergies. It’s also clear that he has a mental health issue, which is clearly documented as well.

        The fact that the commonwealth assisted in getting her and the children home speaks volumes. They don’t just assist anyone because you feel like it. They only assist in serious cases where their involvement is necessary.

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        • Anonymous

          Please provide proof of this “evidence”. The representatives of the Hague obviously did not see any such evidence.

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        • Anon

          The Australian Government helped them get passports. There’s nothing in that at all.

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        • Anonymous

          She and the children needed passports so the government gave them passports (like they did when I went on holidays with my unabused children), they flew out on a regular plane like anyone else. The claims of child abuse were never even suggested until now. Seems her family are flooding the internet with lies…and the drama queen is “seeking out medication” now .

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          • Kate

            err get your facts right, the embassy raced their passports through once the mother had her husbands permission, out her in a hotel in rome, escorted her to the airport, through customs & then made the internatinal airline change them to another fight at the last minute, accommodate them for another day in a stop over so they couldnt easily be followed & then to a plane to australia. sure looks like the Australian government & the embassy were in a hurry for some reason … or do they do that for everyone … court record also says there’s a consular emergency file that goes back 7 years and is 500 pages long … !

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            • Anonymous

              Could you provide the link that contains all this proof. I mean real documented proof, not heresay that is documented in a newpaper/social media/radio transcript of what the mother or the family says.

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    • Susan As Well

      Alice, I agree substantially with you’re saying.

      I *am* the parent of a child who was taken away while on contact with the other parent, “abducted” or “kidnapped” if you wish to add drama to the situation. In a sense, he was old enough to choose to go with his father. It was what he felt a need to do at that time and he was tired of being chased after by his father like a prize to be won.

      I let him go. Despite the longing for him that gnawed at my bones like rats trying to chew their way out of a cage. Despite my rights in the court orders to have him resident with me. His choice was a valid one, it bought him peace and deterred another long legal battle, the outcome of which would only have been a hollow victory for me because legally I had “rights” but the conflict is unimaginable to those who have not been there.

      Before readers post their comments either condemning or applauding the actions of either parent, I implore you to remember the one thing that filters through the corridors of the family courts unnoticed by most people there because they are so busy concentrating on rights and laws. It is the desperation of the children to have blessed peace as quickly as possible from parental conflict in their lives.

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      • Susan As Well

        As a side note, there are critics of the Hague Convention because of the situation that is arising in this case – the possibility that the mother will be unsafe if she returns to Italy.

        I doubt the Hague Convention means diddlysquat to the girls. They haven’t been kidnapped to live their lives in terrible circumstances. I really don’t see the point in dragging them back to Italy. If they want an Italian court to decide the case why not use videoconferencing?

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      • Anonymous

        I doubt you allowed a minor child to be permanently removed from your country into another country (just as that father didn’t)

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        • Faybian

          Maybe she didn’t let her son go to live with his dad in another country, but I know of another child that insisted on staying with her abusive (to his partner)/ neglectful (to his daughter) dad because she didn’t want to leave the family home with her mother, who was leaving because of abuse. This girl was sick of moving, because that was what her and her mother had done for years and every time he tracked them down. Once the girl stayed with her father, he left her mother alone. It was an awful situation all around.

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          • Susan As Well

            I doubt that Anonymous knows me well enough to make that statement. My son may as well have lived in another country as part of the price of peace in his life was that I not try to see him which I didn’t.

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        • Susan As Well

          Alternatively, if I had to move countries for my children’s benefit I would.

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      • Alice

        Susan, I’m so sorry you were in that situation. You’re very brave to make the choice that you felt would bring him the most peace and happiness, even at the direct cost of your own. I hope the situation has improved for you now.

        I agree with you re the video conference court case. Surely the less disruption to the girls would be the best interum solution until everything is resolved?

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  10. Anon

    The kids should go back to Italy, and the mother should go to gaol. It’s pretty simple, she abducted the children and I’m damn sure that if the father had done what she did, then everyone would be baying for his blood.

    It’s simple, she broke the law, yet at the same time wants the courts to overturn international treaaties. It ain’t going to happen.

    As for the abuse, there’s nothing more than allegations and unsubstrantiated allegations at that.

    The mother, the aunt, and the granny should all be in gaol. Courts are there for a reason, and child stealing is a serious offence.

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    • Alice

      Oh my god, you are an idiot. According to the information in the article, she took her children to protect them from harm. That is good parenting, not bad parenting. While the abuse has not yet been proven, that is because it hasn’t been to court – it doesn’t mean that it didn’t occur.

      How, in your mind, would the best outcome for the children be for their mum, grandma and great grandma to be in goal in Australia, while they’re returned to a violent father in another country against their will?

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      • JuJu

        You’re calling someone an idiot yet you’re basing your agument on an article??? Have you even read the Court Judgement? You know the one where the judge takes all evidence into account- not just the mothers media sob story which has changed since the court hearing and in which many journo’s clearly cant be bothered to question even though there are clearly many inconsistancies. The one that illustrates the ramdomness of the mothers argument and which points out she lacks evidence on so many accounts. If you looked at the judgement then you would see that the abuse she is now claiming in the media was not proven in court, and in fact wasnt even mentioned (you’ll also see the same goes with the kids new abuse claims which interestingly werent mentioned until now). What amazes and worries me is so many people are fighting for this woman because of what she says and because the media are sensationalising and promoting public support of her plight to spit in the face of Family Law without considering the consequences. As a divorced parent it is very concerning that people just take the word of someone without educating themselves with all the information available. If she gets away with taking her children the way she has then this precedent could make the Hague Convention useless in Australia. What protection will parents, both cusodial and non custodial have each time their kids are with the other parent? Do we have to all feel concerned that one day our kids will be wisked off to another country, never to see them again, based on unproven accusations that they were abusive or an unfit parent just because the other parent says so?
        BTW People should be very careful with labeling this man as violent when they dont have any proof.

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        • Anon

          I notice that the Courier Mail has deleted every article about this case after days of slandering him without any evidence.

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        • Tara

          There is no evidence that Anon had read the high court judgement either – yet he/she states that the mum and her family should be thrown in jail and you’re totally comfortable with that assessment??

          Alice says “according to the information in the article” – which I took to be a deliberate quailfication that IF the article is accurate and he’s violent then the mum is doing a good thing by protecting her children. She didn’t say she had all the facts, she said that X were her thoughts based on the information provided.

          Sorry that she dared to comment on a casual chat site having ONLY read the article she was commenting on and not a high court judgement. Sheeesh! I’ll make sure I provide a bibliography for all my comments in the future!!

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          • JuJu

            As someone who is new to internet forums, I didnt realise I was supposed to critique every posters assessment.
            I actually only decided to comment on one because of their gall in calling another poster an idiot when they themselves only refered to an internet article which is so obviously one sided.
            To be completely honest I didnt even realise when writing my comment that she was the same poster who had written the ‘according to the information in the article’ post earlier because of the completely different tone of the subsequent post in which she refers to the father as violent and that the only reason abuse has not been proven is because it hasnt been to court. I’ll be sure to take note of the names of the authors of the 200+ threads, most of which are Anon, and link them to their own specific threads from now on.
            BTW- it may be a casual chat site but the laws of defamation still apply. If you dont have the proof to back your statement that someone has been abusive or violent to his children then you shouldnt be writing it for all to see on the net. For someone who has worked in a Law Firm in NY, they should know better than that.

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            • Tara

              The comment above that you’re talking about appeared way later. She was clearly talking about the comment she made on her original post (eg when you press “reply”) – which was written before you even commented. She clarified there that she was commenting on the scenario presented in the article. Which said that he was abusive.

              You got so furious that she hadn’t bothered to read a high court judgement, yet you hadn’t even bothered to read the comment linked directly to the comment – both written with the same user name. You wrote back with total fury then had a go at her having “gall”! Ridiculous.

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      • Anon

        What harm? There was absolutely no evidence of harm to those children from their father, but the psychological damage done by their mother in kidnapping them when she brought them to Australia in just about limitless.

        You’re making an assumption that their father was violent simply through some dubious accusations, none of which held up in court.

        She broke the law, and she did it deliberately through some sort of belief that she is above the law. Here’s a hint, she’s not.

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        • Alice

          Please read my comment below, written an hour before you both commented. I clearly stated:

          1.) As a commentator I don’t know the facts of the case, so I am not speculating on whether what she did was right or wrong, whether or not there was abuse, or how the law would apply to the case. Unless any of the commentators are the magistrate on the case and have seen all the evidence, I don’t think it’s particuarly useful for them to speculate either.

          2.) The point of my comment was that I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that the logical and best outcome for the children is just to whack the mum, grandma and great grandma in jail. That would just make matters worse for the kids.

          I’m not sure how I could have stated that any more clearly! I’m therefore also not sure how you concluded that I’m making the assumption that the husband was definitely abusive or that she was right to disregard the law…unless you didn’t bother reading my response. No hard feelings – I just hope that’s clarified the point I was making!

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          • JuJu

            Its not clear because you make a statement on one hand that you cannot speculate the father is abusive yet go on to state ‘How, in your mind, would the best outcome for the children be for their mum, grandma and great grandma to be in goal in Australia, while they’re returned to a violent father in another country against their will?’
            At the end of the day it is clearly illustrated in the Family Court judgement that the mother did not follow the law in Italy and get the fathers consent to move here (her claims that she did were not substantiated and the witness she claimed she had did not provide supporting evidence of this claim). Now the family is not following the law by refusing to abide by the Family Court decision. By allowing the family to get away with this what precedent is that setting and what message is that sending to people who have child custody disputes in the Family Court? – That if you dont like the decision handed to you then its ok to take the matter into your own hands?

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            • Alice

              In the first post I was speculating based on the information in the article (which alleged abuse), and then I (quickly) went back and qualified the points I was making without the assumption that the dad was violent.

              I shouldn’t have used the word “idiot” to anon, because that was rude, but I really got my back up by the comment that “the mother, the aunt, and the granny should all be in gaol”.

              It’s such an ignorant, insensitive and ridiculous thing to say, for so many reasons.

              You jumped on my first comment without bothering to read the qualification – that’s just lazy and a waste of both of our times. I don’t mean that offensively – I mean that people add to their comments for a reason, and you end up making redundant points if you don’t bother reading the follow up.

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    • Marion

      People like her and Mr Gabe Watson think Australians are suckers. Run away to Australia and commit a crime and Australians will feel sorry for you. The kids aren’t going back to their father BTW, they are going back for a court case. For the last couple of days she has been speaking to the media and not once mentioned “abuse”, she just says, “I have no family in Italy, I have no support in Italy”. Me, me, me. She chose to go to Italy and then she chose to marry an Italian and have children with an Italian and now it doesn’t suit her agenda to stay there. How much have Australians donated to her now? If their father sent them on a holiday to Australia 2 yrs ago with their mother (as she and he both say), he doesn’t sound like any controlling abuser I’ve ever met.

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      • Lulu

        “People like her and Mr Gabe Watson think Australians are suckers. Run away to Australia and commit a crime and Australians will feel sorry for you. ”

        Oh my god.

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        • Lulu

          MM, you delete the second part of my comment but leave the entire comment I was responding to, as well as some of the other hate-filled nonsense in this thread? Not entirely surprising. Hate = OK; rude = not OK.

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          • Rick Morton

            It’s easy to miss stuff, hit the moderator button if we have. We won’t tolerate hate OR rude comments.

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          • Marion

            How is my comment “Hate filled”? I haven’t been here calling other people idiots like someone else. I take offense at people coming to Australia to commit crimes expecting to get away with said crimes by crying to the media. If she wants to live in Australia and abide by ourt laws, she must believe that someone is innocent until proven guilty surely…or maybe not since she ran to the media crying abuse without providing any proof.

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      • Alice

        I think that as commentators on here none of us know what actually happened, so we aren’t in a position to say whether it was justified or selfish. I think it’s terrible that a parent would remove their children from their other parent and flee the country. If it’s to protect them, I can totally understand it though. The point is, we haven’t seen the evidence so we shouldn’t speculate.

        I wasn’t actually commenting on her actions though. I was commenting that it’s ridiculous to suggest that the logical and best outcome is just to whack the mum, grandma and great grandma in jail. That’s just ludicrious and in no way in the children’s best interest!

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      • Faybian

        Ive heard that the girls ARE to be returned to their father.

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    • Anonymous

      Wow, you sound like you pretend to know alot. You simply don’t have a clue unless you are

      1. The mother
      2. One of the children

      Given that it’s obvious you’re not, you shouldn’t be making such sweeping, judgemental, ignorant statements.

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      • Tara

        Who is this comment directed at?

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  11. Hmmm

    Rick, why can’t I reply to your comment about the court having to call all the journalists you mentioned below?

    As predicted, the mother’s attempts to sway the court using the media has completely backfired. What a shame that she didn’t think about the impact of her actions on her children, given they clearly have enough going on in their lives. It really is a shame for these kids.

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    • Rick Morton

      The comments lose a reply function once there are too many on the thread, it’s an automatic feature because otherwise they get too small to read :)

      I completely agree with you. The kids have a bung lot in all of this … and it hasn’t even ended yet. Watching with interest.

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      • Hmmm

        Thanks for clarifying the comment issue- I thought it must be something like that!

        I’m really keen to find out what happens with this one as it goes along as well. It’s obviously causing some great debate on our family law system and regardless of alot of stuff being said, at least people are actively informaing themselves on how it all works.

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  12. The Wounded Bull

    Thanks Rick for demonstrating, in a even more obvious way than normal, the extreme bias adopted on this site in order to appeal to the target demographic. Such an approach is not a ‘pimple on the bum’ of real journalism. And you have not even acknowledged your shortcomings (Mia did to her credit), even after editing the article.

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    • amyfizzer

      If you hate the way they write on here, why do you feel the need to continually come back and criticise?

      Target demographic. Got it in one. You’re clearly not it, so find another website to be wounded on.

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  13. Guest

    I read this article yesterday and am a little curious as to why it has been changed. Yesterday it stated the Father had been abusive towards the Mother, but, after several comments about the fact it was not stated he had abused the children, I note today it reads that the father was abusive towards them all! That’s a big change, and has me wondering if these little details are being changed as we go along. There is a big difference between the two statements! For someone reading the article for the first time it seems to be that he abused his children as well. I am a little suspicious that the article has been altered to gain support for the mothers actions, regardless of what has really been said.

    That’s very disappointing! I can understand changing names, omitting details, etc based of feedback provided however to completely change a quote is not right. What someone says is just that, it should not be tweaked to suit the cause!

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    • Guest again

      And writing (according to Laura) doesn’t really mean much to someone who read the article prior to the change, it was either incorrect yesterday or incorrect today… Either way, it makes me rather skeptical about the accuracy of the reporting!

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    • Shannon

      If you read the Courier Mail, the children allegedly told the reporter that they, too, had been subjected to abuse.

      Whether there is truth to that statement is something else, but media outlets tend to feed off each other so I’d say that may be why the allegations have changed. It seems to be what the family has told the media.

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      • Shannon

        Although the CM has been alleging abuse of the children for days. so it’s not a wholly new aspect of the media coverage.

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        • David

          When the girls were first interviewed by a child psychologist (selected by the mother) there were no claims of abuse by the girls. The youngest even said she wanted to go home to Italy and see her dad. It was the 2nd interview of the kids that they all claimed that they were scared of their father and didn’t want to go back to Italy. This was clearly the mother and her family coaching these children as to what to say.

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          • Shannon

            I don’t disagree with you. I have no opinion on this case whatsoever. Hence why I noted that the abuse was alleged and that I was offering no opinion on its truth or otherwise.

            I was simply pointing out where the “new info” may have come from.

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    • Rick Morton

      That part of the article hasn’t been changed at all. I’ve not changed any quotes and nor would I.

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    • Sammy

      Their father was so abusive and controlling that he paid for her to take them on holidays to Australia. No doubt she lied to him about the holiday and planned all along to stay here. Her kids are going to hate her for isolating them from their father one day.

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  14. Marion

    Where is the proof he was abusive? She took the kids away like other people have stolen kids from Australia and run away with them. She has isolated her children from their father and spread a rumour that he was abusive. If you marry someone in another country, you are obliged to keep your children in that country and not steal them. Don’t have kids with foreigners in foreign countries if you don’t want to live there. They should go back (their mother sounds like a self-centred woman in interviews).

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  15. ashamasha

    and for a far more balanced rundown on the issues, than what has previously been reported…

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/judge-slams-media-as-international-custody-dispute-returns-to-court-20120515-1youm.html

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    • Rick Morton

      That’s a good article. Love the BT.

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    • Another Anon Guy

      Agreed, a good article.

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    • Guest

      Very good article, unbiased and factual… Just like all good journalism should be!

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  16. Anon for this

    Nuh, I support the Mum – those kids must be terrified. Afraid of being taken back to a place where they no longer want to be and away from their mother. Again this smacks of the father trying to get back at the mother via the kids. and did he hit her? Yes, he probably did – you don’t make up stuff like that – and she has every right to pick up her kids and head for the hills. I would do the same. They are welcome to come and hide out at our place anytime. In miserable old Melbourne if they can take the cold!

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    • David

      So what you’re saying is, if you’re not happy with your custody arrangements, kidnap your kids and go to another country. If you can stay out of the courts for long enough, then you’re home free and it would be in the “best interests” of the kids to stay with you. Is that right?

      The mum has caused so much turmoil for her kids. And this was all because she wanted to move back to Aus but didn’t want to deal with the custody issue. Of course the mum is terrified of going back to Italy, she would likely be charged with kidnapping and lost custody of her kids. But that was all because of her selfish choices.

      Thow the mum in prison, send the girls back to Italy with their loving father.

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      • Anonymous

        How exactly do you know that he is a loving father???

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        • jackie

          To play devils advocate, how do we know she is a loving mother? She has had 2 years away with the girls to manipulate & convince them that their Father is a violent abuser. There is no way any of us can know what really went on, like in any divorce.

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        • David

          Well, the father didn’t illegally kidnap his kids. He wasn’t the one who lied to them about going on a holiday to Australia while really planning on never coming back, not giving the girls a chance to say goodbye to their friends or Itallian relatives. He wasn’t the one who moved them to a country they had never visited before, and where they couldn’t speak the language. He wasn’t the one who supported the kids going on the run from a court order. He wasn’t the one to coach the kids to make up lies about the other parent.

          These girls need to be rescued from their abusive mother and her family.

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        • Anonymous

          Love it

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        • Anonymous

          Well said

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      • Anna

        I think the kids are old enough to know what they want…… if they say their father was abusive to them I believe them!!! The mum may have manipulated the kids to some degree but not so far as to get them to ‘create’ memories of abuse…. Plus he was mentally unstable…. ( A 14yr old (who would have been around 12 at the time of the ‘abuse’) would be able to remember whatever happened and should be taken seriously….) If they are that scared to return then they shouldn’t be dragged back…. let them have voice!!!

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        • David

          If you read the court judgements you’ll find that when the children were first interviewed none of them claimed abuse by their father. The youngest said she wanted to go home to Italy and to see her dad and paternal grandparents. It was the 2nd interview where they said they didn’t want to go back.

          Also, if the dad was abusing his kids, why was he allowed to have custody of the children every single weekend? He can’t have been too bad.

          Also, the mum originally claimed that she wanted to move to Australia to be closer to her family. She also said that she couldn’t find work in Italy but it was shown that she had quit 3 jobs leading up to fleeing to Aus.

          The mum also claimed that she never received child support from the father. Somtehing she was never able to prove and something that the father denied. Italy has very strict child support laws and even one missed payment could lead to the dad’s assets being seized.

          The mother’s lies didn’t stack up for the judge, the child psychologist who interviewed the kids, or anyone who has read the full court judgement and the appeal judgement.

          The evil mother is coaching these kids. She is abusing them and they need to be rescued from her and her family.

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      • Anonymous

        It’s so good to see that people are starting to see to what extreme some mothers are going to manipulate the system and rob fathers of there god given right as a parent what is it gona take to put a stop to all this unfair justice !!!!!!

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      • ???

        Alot of your comments here David sound very bitter towards women. No denying it, the mother has stuffed up royally- probably an act of desparation. I am concerned that now she will lose contact with her girls- especially when they are entering an age where they need their same sex parental role model. BECAREFUL WHO YOU BREED WITH PEOPLE!

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    • Another Anon Guy

      The father was going to pay for all 4 girls AND their mother to fly to Italy for the case. He wasn’t stealing the girls from their mum. He was paying to fly the mum back WITH the girls.

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      • Marion

        She doesn’t want them back in that country at all, she wants them all to herself. Sounds like she is selfish and so are her family.

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        • David

          Exactly! Her selfishness has caused her children a huge amount of stress, turmoil, distress and heartache. Her abuse of her children needs to be stopped.

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      • ???

        Bet the Italian courts crucify her and I doubt they grant her much contact with the girls now…….tragic for all involved.

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    • Jackie

      Sorry Anon for this but people “make up stuff like that” all the time, its sad & tragic but true.

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      • Anne

        Most teens I know would not just ‘create’ memories of abuse just for the sake of it….. why are adults taken seriously but not the children??? I can’t believe you guys aren’t supporting them!!! What if they end up black and blue with bruises because the australian government wouldn’t step in to answer their pleas….

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        • Guest

          The trouble is “abuse” can be defined by something as simple as grabbing a child’s arm to stop them from leaving a room. (or running out into the night). I know this from personal experience and the allegation of “abuse” has had severe consequences for those involved.

          None of this case should be “tried” in the media. There is no way of knowing the full story.

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        • David

          Because in the first interview of the children none of them claimed any abuse of them by their father. The youngest even wanted to go home to Italy and to see her father. This is not the behaviour of abused children. It was only in the second interview that the kids said they didn’t want to go back to Italy. The mother and her family are coaching the kids.

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    • Anon

      What rubbish, she does not have the right to ignore the law, either here or in Italy.

      She kidnapped the kids and left the country illegally. If a bloke had done that you’d be squealing like a stuck pig.

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  17. Susan As Well

    All other legal issues aside to be sorted out by the court, just wondering if the dad could spend some time in Australia with his daughters. Seems like mum and the girls have spent a fair whack of time in Italy with dad and their Italian family (assuming dad has relatives in Italy) and it would be fair for all concerned for him to stay here for a while.

    The desperation of the people in this case is palpable. The unspoken principle of the Hague convention is to return children to the country that they have been kidnapped from because there is an assumption that this is the rightful place of the child and that the country’s domestic law can decide for the children where they should live. I’m not sure that you can be that black and white about where the rightful country or place of a child really is.

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  18. Jloukath

    I have drafted a plain English explanation of the legalities in this case which may answer a lot of queries people have posted…

    brisbanecollaborativelaw.blogspot.com

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  19. bedizz

    I feel compelled to say that I do not support the action this mother has taken by involving the media. And I do not support this article. I feel compelled because this family is likely monitoring their media response and public opinion, so here’s my piece.

    This needs to be decided in Italy by the Italian courts, and the whole debacle flies in the face of the Hague Convention, and I feel insulted on behalf of any Australian who is fighting for their own children under the Hague.

    This woman has abducted her children. If they are abused, she can fight that out in Italy. Unfortunately you can not just run away into hiding and hope that public opinion will hide the fact you are breaking international and national laws.

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    • maggie

      I agree with you.

      It’s unfortunate all round, but do it the legal way, or you make it worse for yourself and the kids.

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  20. Trog

    MM Team, I laud your editorial decisions to defend the downtrodden, but you really have no idea who has copped the rough end of the stick here.

    This attempt to champion one of your demographic is just so irresponsible.

    I have a couple of mates who are going through custody battles and divorces at the moment and as much as I’ll listen sympathetically to their stories of strife and support them wherever I can; I never lose sight of the fact that I’m only hearing one side of the story.

    I’m really surprised that this story made it through a professional editorial team to see the light of day.

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  21. Anon

    I agree with commentators that she kidnapped her kids and she shouldn’t have. I don’t know about the abuse she is claiming, is there any evidence?

    I am from another country and a single mum to my three kids. I would love to move back to be close to my family as I have no family here. But my kids’ dad wont let me even though he has not seen them for 5 years nor paid maintenance. So, I must admit that the legal advice I got was to just take them out of the country and count on him being such a dead beat dad that he won’t fight to have them back…

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    • Jackie

      That is really sad, would your children prefer to stay in Australia?

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  22. Guest

    So essentially, with nothing but hearsay mamamia is running a campaign to support a child abductor.

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    • Anonymous

      Yeah, but a female child abductor, so that is ok.

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  23. Guest

    What’s with Mamamia staff being incapable of ever conceding that they shouldn’t have written a piece in a particular way, or even at all? 

    I’ve noticed several occasions in recent times where the bulk of commenters have pointed out flaws in what has been written, only to have these observations met with passive aggressive responses by Mamamia staff, usually using the smiley face emoticon to top off an already irritatingly childish response. Rick, you have done the same here when faced with some quite compelling arguments about why this piece lacks any journalistic integrity. 

    I’m not saying Mamamia shouldn’t stand by its work. However, don’t disrespect your readers by dismissing their concerns. You don’t always have to be right, you know. 

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    • Mia

      Interesting point. We have actually made some changes to the piece since it was first published. We don’t always get it right, that’s true.

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      • Jloukath

        Good to see the surname removed. Reference to Federal Court should be Full Court of the Family Court of Australia.
        The only avenue of appeal now is to seek leave to appeal to the High Court.
        Hague Convention cases are not easy. The real tragedy here is that she did not have a lawyer at the original trial to assist her to get the proper evidence she needed before the court…

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    • Guest

      And I now see that you have removed your initial request for people to petition the Attorney-General. Well that’s a start! Thank you!

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  24. Rick Morton

    It’s in quote marks Bradley, standard journalism convention. Nothing new there.

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  25. Lizi

    Those poor girls. No matter how this turns out, they run the risk of alienating one of their parents. Sad.

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    • Guest

      So true. Unfortunately that is the life of many, many children of broken homes. Most spend the majority of their time worrying about keeping both parents happy and hoping that each parent still love them. It’s a massive burden to carry :(

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  26. Hmmm

    Do you know what mostly annoys me about this kind of story? People are actually encouraged to resort to media attention to get their own way in family law matters. This would be fine if the media representatives involved had any experience deciding family law matters…but they don’t. They run a sensationalist story, albeit in some cases with the intention of ‘helping’, it gathers mass media attention, and then everyone forgets about it and the court’s continue weighing up all the evidence to determine what’s in the child’s best interests.

    Unless media is allowed to publish the full story, we will only ever have ill informed opinions on stories like this. The reason they cannot publish the full story (i.e. the facts) is to protect the identity of the children and families involved. Which one of you would be comfortable with your kid’s going to school only to have articles about them shoved in their faces?

    The family court always has people threatening to go to the media when a decision doesn’t go their way (along with threats to set themselves on fire in the court room, tie themselves to a tree outside and even kidnap the opposing lawyer!)- how are these people protecting the interest’s of their children? They are being selfish and thinking only of themselves.

    I love MM and mean no disresepct to you Rick, but stories like this have wide and long standing implications for everyone involved and other people going through the family law system.

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  27. Regrets...

    I smell a rat. Doesn’t add up. All very Corby-ish to run a campaign through the media. Not the smartest way to win a legal case.

    There just seems to me too many instances where the mothers case doesn’t add up and where there are far -out excuses for decisions going against her- probably for good reason.

    The children need to return to their homeland (Italy) where the courts should decide their fate.

    I think you sniffed the wind wrong on this one MM.

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  28. redqueen

    What about the kids rights? if they don’t want to live with their dad why force them?

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  29. anthonysherratt

    I have concerns the judgement has been made more on legal grounds than practical ones. And I’m not convinced there has been enough investigation on the abuse claims (that should over-ride the Hague convention no matter what some legal experts believe).

    I’d like to see the Australian government intervene to ensure the safety of the children as you can’t be too careful or thorough when there are kids involved.

    In the meantime if they turn up at my house they’ll have a safe place to stay.

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    • Lizzie Grant

      Well said!

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    • No place

      Anthony – the Government doesn’t have a role here to override the Full Bench of the Family Court. Are you suggesting that the court did not take full account of the evidence (whatever it was) regarding the abuse? Do you have some kind of extra knowledge to which the court was not party?

      It is all very well for people to say that children shouldn’t be returned from Australia, but I’ll bet the very same people are the first to cry foul when overseas nationals abduct children from Australia!

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      • anthonysherratt

        No place – I have a great respect and understanding of the law. What I am saying is that IF (and I acknowledge there are unknowns for the vast majority of us and that goes both ways) there is some doubt about children being abused and IF there is doubt about whether all the facts were presented to the court then we should be taking the path of caution.

        There are a great number of judges who enforce the law without context. This is okay as it is essentially their job but my point is that if there’s a chance the children are in danger than you, me and yes the government should be looking to protect them and the letter of law be damned. Protecting children is more important than a strict reading of the legalities.

        Despite your generalisation and assumption I personally have no time for parents of either gender abducting children. But frankly I care more about the children’s safety than which parent (even if it’s just one) is doing the right thing.

        I’m saying prioritise.

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  30. Neutral reader

    I do feel for the kids (as you feel for any child in stuck in the middle of a nasty divorce), and in all honesty I feel for the mother also especially if this man is abusive. However, I note there are no allegations against the father with regards to abusing his children and therefore, there is no evidence that the children are at risk. I completely agree with previous comments that if it were a situation were reversed and the mother was thought by the father to be abusive and the father fled to his home country that regardless of the children’s wishes he would be howled down by the Australian public, and everyone would be demanding proof of this abuse. I can understand the Mother’s point of view, particularly if the claim of abuse is true, however why can she not travel back to Italy with the children while she fights tooth and nail in court, producing every piece of evidence she can find to support her claims, and then once her allegations are proven make an application to the courts to relocate her children to Australia. That would be the less dramatic, and more responsible thing to do.

    The major thing that stands out in this article to me is that firstly there is only information given that the mother was abused, and secondly the child states they do not remember alot and unfortunately this does give rise to a small amount of suspicion that the children fear their father not because they experienced his violence but were told about it by the person they trust more than anyone in the world – their mother! I am not saying at all she IS lying, but we as the public really do not know the truth. They all need their day in court and hopefully the children’s wishes will be taken into account.

    In saying that, I feel for her that her legal representation did not show up on her court date and really think the court is a little wrong for not having adjourned the matter until she could ensure proper representation. It would be interesting to know what these lawyers have to say for themselves!

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  31. Hmmm

    Wow, brave move MM. There are very specific laws surrounding publishing family law matters. I’m sure you have researched and found a way around it but quite risky nonetheless.

    You can never really be sure about what has really happened and you can’t expect your readers to have an opinion without all the facts- which would involve all of the evidence presented to the presiding judiciary officer.

    And if Legal Aid refused to represent the mother it would not be because “that would mean going up against the Australian Government”. It is probably because the mother refused to accept reasonable legal advice and because they can’t assist a person to breach an order- a lawyer’s first duty is to the court. There may be other ways to deal with this woman’s concerns but I wouldn’t know without all the facts. The Family Court is rarely persuaded to do what someone wants simply because they involve the media. They don’t respond well to sensationalism.

    I’m not saying the mother shouldn’t be assisted and I’m not saying it is an easy topic- I couldn’t possibly without all the facts, and neither should anyone else.

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    • Hmmm

      And I might add that this probably won’t help the mother when the other side decides to annexe this article to their next affidavit.

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      • Neutral reader

        So true, particularly when it contains a quote from one of the children stating they don’t remember alot! If I were the Father or his lawyer I would definitely be using that one.

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      • Anonymous

        I highly doubt an Italian courts or lawyers is searching google for an Australian website to use in their proceedings. This is all over the news so MM is hardly breaking any laws, it’s everywhere

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        • Hmmm

          1) It is still a live issue in Australian Family Court.

          2) Lawyers in Italy will know about the media storm here and it will be relevant to proceedings there if they go ahead.

          3) Publishing certain aspects (depending on the case) of family law matters is breaking the law.

          By all means have an opinion but try and be a little informed.

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          • Anonymous

            What I actually said was given that it’s all over the media, I doubt an Italian court is going to be bringing up Mamamia in their proceedings. sorry but they won’t be. They might be bringing up the current media storm.

            They’re not breaking the law as they’re not giving the surname, therefore not identifying the family. THAT is the law, that no identifying information can be given by the media. Given that it is now a MISSING PERSON case, that actually is allowed to be written about in the media.

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            • Hmmm

              Perhaps you only got the edited version of the above article as they did publish the surname initially.

              And I saw what you ‘actually’ said- it’s just up above! MM has quoted the children, and the mother and the extended family- any lawyer who believes in doing their job thoroughly would consider that evidence. MM (or whichever staff member those people spoke to) is technically a witness and could be subpoenaed to support the father’s evidence that the mother has deliberately breached a court order and would likely do it again.

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            • Rick Morton

              They have a lot of journalists to ring then! The family have spoken to Sky News, News Limited, Fairfax I believe, the Sunshine Coast Daily, 4BC :)

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  32. Jloukath

    Rick, I am in the process of reading and considering the judgment but in the meantime – you have used the mother’s name in your article. If that is her actual name, that’s a breach of the Family Law Act. Best to change it to Garning as reported in the judgment to be on the safe side….?

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    • Bree

      I’m confused – the Courier Mail in qld published a front page article today featuring both the mother & all 4 daughters names & ages; complete with photo. I know something being published in the courier mail hardly constitutes reliable journalism but I wouldn’t have thought they’d be that dumb with a front page cover, if they were breaching the Family Law act?

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  33. Anonymous

    Good on the Grandmother! If they were my kids and they were being forced back into an abusive situation, I’d be running with them too! It’s clear she has evidence of the abuse and usually if a man is abusive toward his wife, he is abusive toward his children especially if they’re girls.

    What happens if they’re returned to their father and he further abuses them? What if, god forbid, he kills them? People murder their children often, especially fathers to get back at their ex wife or partner. What would people be saying then?

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    • Anon

      The only evidence of abuse is the psychological damage and brainwashing the mother has done. It’s that simple. You’re just taking sides according to gender and the false belief that women can do anything they like.

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  34. Jackie

    Im not entirely convinced, cases such as this are far too complicated & emotional to be easily solved with MM readers emailing the AG. The mother should never have left Italy with the children, she has put these girls through so much trauma, regardless of the circumstances with ther ex she is in the wrong.
    Im actually a little disappointed with MM publishing this, sorry.

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    • Anonymous

      Is it better to allow her children to be abused? Sadly this cases happen across Australia and the children are NOT returned to their abuser. It’s simply more difficult as this has become an international incident.

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      • Jackie

        The alleged abuse was towards his wife not daughters. The article also states the girls wanted to see their father.

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        • Anonymous

          The children have been quoted as saying that they will need to be sedated before they willingly go to see their father. This doesn’t sound like they’re too happy to go with him to me.

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          • Hmmm

            Actually, the quote implies they have said they would have to be sedated before being rumoved from their mother as opposed to going voluntarily. The mother can go with them.

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            • Jackie

              The court docs state that the girls had been happy spending weekends with their Dad. So what has transpired in the last 2 years to go to wanting sedation is anyone’s guess.

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        • tastebud

          If parents are abusing each other, their children are experiencing and impacted by that abuse too.

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  35. Mum of four

    Imagine if this story was about a Muslim father removing his children from Australia. Our media would be crucifying him!

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    • MissNeriss

      That happened already. Remember the Malaysian Prince with the Australian wife and kids? He took them back to Malaysia without the permission of the mother and the Australian and Australian governments didn’t have the children returned to their mother. The media here did crucify him I remember…

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      • Jloukath

        Because Malaysia was not a signatory to the Hague Convention!

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  36. LLou

    There could be 2 scenarios:
    1. The Father is actually abusive; or
    2. The Mother has her own agenda and the children have been persuaded by their Mother that their Father is an abuser = Parental Alienation Syndrome.

    Unfortunately, unless there is a full and open review of the facts, with psychological evaluation of all the children, it will be difficult to determine the truth.

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    • Guest

      I think in family law disputes the truth often lies somewhere in the middle. There doesn’t have to be absolutes.

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  37. Gin & Tonic

    Info from the Attorney General’s website found with a 10 second google search. This info is for parents in Australia to get their kids back from overseas so it needs to be read “in reverse”.

    “The Convention establishes a number of grounds on which the abducting parent may rely to oppose the return of your child to Australia. You may be asked to provide evidence to counter any allegations made by the parent overseas in relation to these defences.

    The abducting parent may oppose the return of the child for the following reasons:

    -The child is aged 16 or over;
    -The child has been outside Australia for over 12 months and is settled in his or her new environment;
    -The child was not habitually resident in Australia at the time of the removal or retention;
    -The applicant in Australia did not have rights of custody in relation to the child;
    -The applicant in Australia was not exercising rights of custody in relation to the child at the time of the removal;
    -The applicant gave prior consent to the permanent removal or retention of the child or subsequently acquiesced to the removal or retention of the child;
    -The child would be exposed to a grave risk of physical harm, psychological harm or some other intolerable situation if returned to Australia;
    -The child objects to being returned and is of an age and maturity to justify his or her views being taken into account;
    -The child’s return would be a breach of its fundamental freedoms and human rights. ”

    Obviously the mother in this case wasnt able to prove that there was reason enough to justify overruling the convention.

    All up I think this is pretty poorly researched reporting MM.

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    • anon

      Actually there are a number of those points that the mother can meet including the documented physical abuse. ONe of the biggest problems is that her legal team didn’t turn up to represent her on the day in court, as she was pro bono. They had paid work that had to come first so she went into a major family court hearing unrepresented. If her lawyers had bothered to turn up there may have been a totally different outcome.
      The girls are old enough to make a choice under Australian law, and don’t want to go back to their father. Also the australian government helped the mother leave italy with the daughters because of the abuse so why not help now??

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      • Gin & Tonic

        Ok if this is really the case then they dont need the AG, they need to get a lawyer immediately. They could possibly have grounds to appeal.

        I am dubious about this though because lawyers arent allowed to just “not turn up” to court hearings. If you are on the court record as someone’s lawyer you have to turn up whether you are being paid or not. I gather this case has been going for awhile so the solicitor would be on the court record. You have to apply to be removed as the solicitor and it is a long process if there is no other lawyer to replace you.

        I am starting to feel that this story has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

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      • Hmmm

        The girls are not old enough to make a choice under Australian law at all! They are old enough for their wishes to be considered. The weight those views have in the court’s decision is to be measured according to their maturity and level of understanding on the situation, which is a finding based on circumstances for each child. Their views are not determinative.

        And there is no way the court said “Oh your lawyer’s not here? Nevermind”. It doesn’t work like that.

        Bloody hell.

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      • Not the case

        The embassy did not help them leave because of the abuse – the consulate helped them to get passports, on the basis that they were coming here for a holiday, which the father agreed to, not a permanent stay.

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        • Not the case

          Sorry, the ‘alleged’ abuse – yet to be proven in the appropriate jurisdiction.

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  38. Anonymous

    Hmmm, I am not to sure I am comfortable with this article. And for some reason, I reckon if the shoe was on the other foot, the father would be demonised on this site if he or his family were to have done what this mother and her family have done.

    You said that the father has refused to comment, I sort of really don’t blame him. It is pretty much obvious that anything he says will be of no use to his case. i sort of get the feeling of Australia should rally against the bad italian man…

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  39. Anonymous

    I don’t see the problem. They wouldn’t be sent back to live with their father, they would go back with their mother and the case would be heard by the courts. If what they say is true, the father would be extremely lucky to receive any visitation, and it is most likely that the courts would let the mother take the kids back to Australia.

    Putting the kids through this just makes a bad situation worse, and honestly, given the mother has no evidence of the father’s approval to take the children and the fact that the children’s statements about their father changed drastically, it seems the best course of action is to let the courts hear both sides because at this point it certainly isn’t black and white.

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    • tastebud

      Perhaps the mother feels if she was to return to italy he would assault or kill her?

      If that’s the case I can certainly see why she wouldn’t take the risk.

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  40. Lu

    I would love to hear Jacqueline Pascarls thoughts on this one.

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    • Gin & Tonic

      I cant remember if her husband took her kids to Indonesia or Malaysia but neither country is a party to the Hague Convention so she wasnt able to use it as a way to get the children back to Australia to hear her case.

      So sad.

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      • Lu

        Malaysia, he is Malaysian Royalty.

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  41. LibbyLu

    This is a nightmare for everyone involved. You make yourself very vulnerable (man or woman) if you chose to partner up and have kids with someone in a country (or even just another state within Australia) other than your own. If your marriage breaks down you may never be allowed to leave without leaving your children behind.

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  42. Guest

    This is some pretty unbalanced reporting that borders on irresponsible. Rick you are usually better than this. We have only one side of the story. You can report one side of a story, but it needs to be done pretty carefully.

    No one is trying to force these kids to live with their father. They are being returned to Italy as that is the proper jurisdiction to decide the case. The mother is welcome to return to italy with them and fight her case in Italy. A judge here was satisfied that the father did not consent to the children being removed to Australia.

    You cannot simply bypass a local court and take your children overseas because it suits you. Imagine if an Italian father had taken his kids back to Italy instead of following court procedure here. You would all be in uproar. The Hague Convention is a terrific piece of law and we should not put it aside based on one-sided accusations in a case that an Australian judge has already heard thoroughly. Italy is a first-world country with a proper legal system. There is no reason the case can’t be heard in Italy. I agree at their age the girls should have a say. But they need to have that say in an italian court before they return here.

    We have no idea what the real story is. How come it is not mentioned in this story that the judge was satisfied the father did not consent, that he thought it was for a holiday? He may well be abusive, but family disputes can get pretty ugly, kids can be swayed, allegations made, exaggerated. Report the story, but to encourage people to contact politicians is to be seen to be taking a position and you don’t know the full story.

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    • Rick Morton

      Sorry you feel that way. The father has refused to comment so far. I’m reporting what is available.

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      • Guest

        But you are not reporting what is available. On The Age I could read how the judge decided the father was telling the truth about the holiday. I could read how this is not about sending kids to live with an abusive dad, but simply letting another court’s jurisdiction decide the issues. The impression one gets from reading this is hugely different than from what is on news websites. I understand it must have been emotional hearing from the girls but your news cap seemed to come off for this one.

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      • David

        Did you read the court judgement and the appal judgement? They were pretty clear that the mother had almost no evidence to back up any of her claims. There was also a bit, but not a lot, of evidence that showed her claims to be false.

        Also from the judgement, when the kids were first interviewed the youngest two expressed a desire to go home to Italy and to see their dad. All of the kids said they enjoyed spending time with their dad (he had custody every weekend) even if he did play computer games a bit too much sometimes. It was during the second interview that all the girls said that they didn’t want to go home to Italy.

        The mother also claimed that the dad didn’t pay child support and she couldn’t get him to pay. But the father claimed to have always paid child support. Italy is very strict on non-payment of child support and provides for siezing of assets if even one payment is missed. This is just another claim by the mum that doesn’t add up.

        I also think it is perfectly correct for the father to refuse to comment to the media. This should be a private matter involving the courts and the family. While I understand the mothers motives for speaking to the media, I think it is entirely wrong and will only hurt the girls more in the long run.

        How would you feel about this situation if it was an Itallian father who had taken his Aussie daughters back to Italy to protect them from their evil abusive Aussie mother? Would you support his actions? Or would you criticise him for not acting within the Law and using the Australian court system to adress his issues?

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    • j-l

      I think a lot of the strong feelings that are coming out from the public/media about this issue are based on the idea that the Convention would send the kids back into their father’s custody (which by my understdanding, it wouldn’t). Maybe a bit of a cheat sheet on the Convention and why/how it operates would help, MM?

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    • Emma

      Hear hear!

      May I remind you that this is a decision of the Family Court which is a court of federal jurisdiction. The Court heard evidence and submissions from both parties and made its decision based on that evidence and according to the law.

      We have not heard evidence. We have heard stories from one party to the matter.

      It is a subversion of the Family Court’s decision to call for a media campaign to prevent its orders being carried out.

      The correct avenue of appeal is an appeal to the Full Court if the decision was made by a single judge, and then to the High Court – not to the media.

      The mother had the same opportunity to appeal the orders as any other person. If she did not, or did not have a case, then the decision rests with her.

      There is a bigger question here than this case alone, and that is Australia’s obligations under an international treaty.

      What next – deciding not to comply with other court orders that Mamamia finds unpalatable?

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      • anthonysherratt

        I hear you and most times I would agree with you whole heartedly. However with the safety of young children in question (not saying whether they’re actually in danger or not – just that’s in doubt) then we should do our very best to ensure the safety of the young.

        The fact her legal team didn’t turn up on the day means she didn’t get full representation. That alone should give the government and legal system pause for thought.

        Let’s just be sure.

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        • Anonymous

          As others have said, that’s just not how it works. Lawyers don’t just not show up. If they do, they’ll need a damn good excuse or they’ll be harshly penalised. Either way, court proceedings wouldn’t go on as planned. So there’s a lot more to that story.

          If the abuse claims don’t add up, then this mother has put her children through a terrible ordeal.

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          • Emma

            Absolutely. No court would proceed to a judgment on such a serious matter if legal team ‘just didn’t show up’.

            I also read that the mother was self-represented. If so, she was remarkably ill-advised to do so. She could have applied for assistance at any number of places.

            The matter before the court was about the welfare of young children. The matter before the Italian courts will be about the welfare of young children. Let’s not get all ‘won’t somebody please think of the children’ about this.

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          • anthonysherratt

            I agree it sounds weird and I am aware of how most cases proceed, but there are claims she didn’t receive full representation. Even if it was limited or diminished it’s a cause for concern when there is children’s safety at sake.

            If she has indeed made false claims then I will be livid with her. But surely we need to be sure in cases like these.

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  43. Anon

    This story touched a nerve. We have recently had my step children banned from coming to visit us after 10 years and a parenting plan. They are 12 & 14 and had previously been spending every second weekend and school holidays with us. In our case it is more to do with money than anything else as the Child Support Agency rewards parent’s finacially for witholding their children.

    We miss them terribly especially my three year old daughter who doesn’t understand why her brother and sister are gone. We have no rights to see them and it is a long hard expensive road to go down the Family Court route with no guarentee on results or enforcement.

    Children have a right to know both parents and there are supervision mechanisms in place if there have been instances of abuse. (this is not the case in our situation).

    I also question the ethics and pyschological harm that is being inflicted on the kids by exposing them to the media like that and the negative things and parental alienation in relation to their father. It can put kids under a lot of pressure when the primary caregiver aka Mother is pushing them to do and say something that may not agree with. I cannot see how this is sheltering them or in their best interests.

    There are always two sides to every story and maybe a bit too close to home as I am currently heart broken at the loss of two kids I have been helping raise for the last ten years. I think about them constantly and the pain is unbearable.

    Maybe we should have a little compassion for what the father may have been going through.

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  44. karry327

    It’s hard to comment not really knowing all the facts, although when 3 generations step in and take such drastic moves to protect the children – that speaks quite loudly and clearly to me.

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    • Guest

      Not really, the 3 generations are all on the mothers side… The mother is the one telling the story, of course they are on her side. I am sure the paternal grandmother and great grandmother, and so on and so forth, would be on the fathers side but obviously are not speaking to the media!

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    • tastebud

      Yes, it would pretty difficult to sit idle when your grand-daughter tells you she and her children are at risk of harm if they are forced to return to Italy.

      My daughter, grand-daughter, great grand-daughter, niece, sister etc it wouldn’t matter, you take them seriously and do what you can.

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  45. jb expat

    Would love to hear Carol Overington comment on this (she’s known to MM, right?) – anyone read Matilda is Missing?

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    • Alexa

      Yes I have read all her books including her stay in New York.

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  46. Gin & Tonic

    I was involved in a case like this when I was a lawyer and the Court actually does take into account the welfare of the children over all other things, even if the parent has taken the child illegally contrary to the Hague Convention.

    I fear we dont have all the facts here.

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    • Another Anon Guy

      Agreed. This is playing on people’s assumptions that men=bad, women=good.

      The mother could be twisting facts and operating under parental alientation syndrome. She could be a child abductor with bi-polar for all we know stealing her kids away from the father who is their legal guardian. Why does he have full custody in the first place? There may be a very good reason.

      I’m not saying who’s in the wrong here because I don’t have the facts either. I’m guessing though the Family Court wouldn’t be ordering their extradition without good cause. I will certainly not entreat the PM to intervene based on hearsay.

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      • LibbyLu

        The father and mother had a shared custody arrangement (father had weekends I believe). You can read the history and judgement of the court – there are links in the media.

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        • Another Anon Guy

          Yeah I noticed that now. I think I’ll go do some more research on this. There’s alot more going on here than whats on the face of it I think.

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  47. Bradley

    Where is the bit about the family specifically asking for help from Mamamia readers ?

    I quite happy to send an email to anyone from the Premier to the Queen if it will help this family’s situation.

    I just didn’t read anything in the article to prove that support from MM readers had specifically been requested by anyone associated with the family.

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    • Rick Morton

      We’ve got the text messages asking for our help Bradley. You can also have a look on their Facebook page. Cheers.

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      • Bradley

        I don’t use Facebook, Rick.

        Perhaps if you had stated clearly that MM had received texts asking for assistance I wouldn’t have asked questions that have obviously offended you. Cheers.

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        • Rick Morton

          Oh don’t be silly. I stated clearly MM had been asked for help. What difference does it make if I say it was via text or not?

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    • HD

      I would suggest their help was implied. The mother rang Sunrise this morning.

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  48. beee

    Ummm I am really confused by this whole story. There seems to be alot of missing information…

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  49. Lee

    This happens in Australian courts all the time.

    A friend of mine had an AVO out against the father of her youngest 2 children, as did her eldest daughter. He continually breached the AVO. Physically abusive and emotionally abusive she fled with her children only to have him file against her. The judge refused to look at the case before ordering her to give the children to the father because she didn’t ask his permission to leave the area. So now we need to ask abusers permission to leave their space – according to the law.

    Fast forward years later – grueling years where the children have had their heads messed up. The mother is worn down, and the judges are systematically, and idiotically, still putting the demands of a belligerent arsehole before the needs of a child.
    The court psychologist determined that the man should not have contact with his children at all. The final judge determined that He now has rights to the children every second holidays, as long as he goes to get them?

    He is currently detailing his plans of moving down to follow her…and so it begins again.

    Our family law is a joke. Ask the police, they just shake their head and tell you there is nothing they can do.

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    • Ian

      What on Earth are u talking about? There is no abuse. It has all been thru the courts already. The mother has no case. She should be jailed & forced to repay every single cent she has cost the Australian public. Meanwhile, the 4 ITALIAN kids should return to Italy where they belong. This is an appalling case really. We have to ask why Australia women think they can give the law a middle finger any time it suits them. Like many seperated fathers, I am watching this case with great interest. If those kids are not returned to Italy, I will be abducting my kids. Other fathers in fathers’ groups I know are considering the same. There are more than 100K kids here in unfair custodial arrangements. One way or another, we have to put an end to this sexist, one-sided farce. 100K abducted kids might get the message thru.

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  50. ashamasha

    Did the court ACTUALLY rule for their removal “even if it meant being ‘sedated and physically removed’ from their mother.” ??

    From the links supplied, it’s apparently the GIRLS who actually said they would “have to be handcuffed, sedated and carried on to the plane”…

    Which one is correct?

    In this sort of story, accuracy is paramount. particularly where only one side of the story is given.

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    • Rick Morton

      They did not mandate sedation. Sorry, my paraphrasing might not have made that clear! I was quoting the girls. Will amend now to be clear.

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      • ashamasha

        good to know :) thought that bit sounded way out there!

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