Dear Jackie O and Every Other Woman Who Doesn’t Consider Herself A Feminist,
Really? I mean REALLY? I was so confused when I read the following quote from you yesterday:
Jackie O
Do you consider yourself a feminist?
“No,” she says, with a shy smile.
“Why?” I cry in disappointed tones.
“You’re a woman.”
“I know,” she says, laughing. “I know. I do feel like I have achieved so much, in radio especially. But I’ve never considered myself a feminist. I’m just, you know, I’m doing what I love. I’m really proud of how far I’ve come. But … you know.”
Here’s Mia and Lisa Wilkinson talking to Karl Stefanovic about Jackie O’s feminist quote on The Today Show:
The thing is Jackie -I’ve known you a long time and I like you a lot. You are a force in radio, a role model for many women and your success is no accident. You’ve worked hard and you’re talented.
In many ways, the power you have in your field has paved the way for many other women like you to be given a chance in a hugely competitive industry that’s mostly dominated by men.
So I’m confused by your insistence that you’re not a feminist.
What do you think feminism is? Or rather, why are you so keen to distance yourself from it?
As self-described “strident feminist” and my hero Caitlin Moran says in her book How to be a Woman:
Caitlin Moran
“We need to reclaim the word ‘feminism’. We need the word ‘feminism’ back real bad.
When statistics come in saying that only 29% of American women would describe themselves as feminist – and only 42% of British women – I used to think, What do you think feminism IS, ladies? What part of ‘liberation for women’ is not for you? Is it freedom to vote? The right not to be owned by the man you marry? The campaign for equal pay? ‘Vogue’ by Madonna? Jeans? Did all that good shit GET ON YOUR NERVES? Or were you just DRUNK AT THE TIME OF THE SURVEY?”
There seem to be a lot of women who are confused about the meaning of feminism. Lady Gaga in 2009 said: “I’m not a feminist. I hail men. I love men.”
HUH? Who said anything about NOT loving men? Where does that even come from? Since when did feminism have anything to do with rejecting men or femininity?
Equally frustrating is the “I’m not a feminist, but…” brigade.
“These days, well-intentioned suggestions of equality often follow in the footsteps of the phrase “I’m not a feminist, but…”, as if feminism is a disease we want to ensure everyone we don’t have before proceeding. As if feminism and being a feminist is something to be embarrassed about.”
“Most of us like being women but the strife between wanting to embrace both femininity and feminism seems difficult at times. Questions like “I like wearing make-up, so am I really a feminist?”, “I’m really into fashion, so am I really a feminist?”, “I like to cook for my husband, so am I really a feminist?” or “I want to stay home with my children instead of work, so am I really a feminist?” pop up, and the answer is always yes.
Feminism is anything but the rejection of femininity. It is about embracing that femininity and demanding that the world embrace it the way they have embraced masculinity for most of our history. It is about ensuring that women always have both a choice and a voice. It is about not being devalued because we happen to be women.”
Yep, and spare me the ‘humanist’ label because it’s naive and misses the point. In a recent interview about her role in the movie I Don’t Know How She Does It, a movie that would have been impossible without feminism, Sarah Jessica Parker was at pains to point out: ”I took a page from [the playwright] Wendy Wasserstein’s book. She said, ‘I’m not a feminist, I’m a humanist.”’
That would be ace if humans all had the same rights but we don’t. Women are STILL not paid the same amount as men for doing the same job. And any half-decent bloke would be as appalled by that as women should be.
From the Herald Sun:
Australian Bureau of Statistics studies of Australia’s almost nine million employees have found only 151,000 were women earning $2000 a week or more, compared with 570,400 men.
The ABS reports looked at employee earnings and also analysed information by gender. In every wage category, on average, women earn less than men from the time they start work through to retirement.
Keelia Fitzpatrick, Youth Officer with the Victorian Trades Hall Council, said for young women who finished university, the gender pay gap was present from day one of their careers. “Figures show that across industries female graduates will earn on average $2000 less per year than their male counterparts,” Ms Fitzpatrick said. “This debunks the myth that the gender pay gap can be explained by family commitments.”
Girlfriends, come on. Feminism is simply about believing women should have equality and the right to make decisions about our own lives. Whether to work, who to marry, what jobs to do, whether to have children, when to have them, how many, who to vote for, what to wear…….the list goes on.
You want to give those choices back? You want men to make the decisions about your lives? About your body? Well, sure. Then perhaps you’re not a feminist.
But I don’t know ANY woman who believes she’s not worthy of the same rights as men, that she should earn the same money for doing the same job.
You want to know what it’s not like to have those rights? Maybe talk to a woman who lives in Saudi Arabia who is not legally allowed to drive a car let alone have a job or vote.
So are you a feminist?
Caitlin Moran suggests taking this simple test:
”Put your hands in your pants. (a) Do you have a vagina? And (b) Do you want to be in charge of it? If you said yes to both, then congratulations, you’re a (c) feminist.”
I’m a feminist. I’m the daughter of a feminist and the mother of one and I’m proud.
Jackie, you should be proud too. Proud of your success, proud of your family, grateful for the choices you have.
Because feminism played a crucial part in all of it.
Here’s a gallery of women who inspire us.
Mother Teresa - Founded the Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta and helped the poor and sick for 45 years.
.jpg "Nancy Wake was born in Sydney and served as a British agent during WW2. She became a leading figure in the maquis groups of the French Resistance and became one of the Allies' most decorated servicewomen of the war."){kind=small}
Comments
577 Comments so far
Agree totally Mia. Feminism is not a dirty word! It is exactly what you define it as and all women should embrace it. I for one do not want to give up everything that feminists have achieved for women! I am a feminist, my mum is a feminist and my sisters are feminists. And although my dear dad doesn’t have a vagina, he too is a feminist. He doesn’t have much choice in a family of 4 women! Yay for feminism
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Thank you Mia.Not in the least surprised that Jackie O doesn’t describe herself as a feminist.
It seems to me Jo Hayes that it is the right wing Christian lobby that is pushing to shackel all women with their so called ‘pro life’ agenda- especially in the US right now. We are not compelled to revisit the legislation against racism every five years or so, yet we (sorry me and my dirty murdering feminist mates- not you and your “passionate about women’s rights” types) must continually justify a woman’s right to abortion which was first introduced in this country in 1969 MORE THAN FORTY YEARS AGO.
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Yes Mia, I completely agree that young women these days need to be educated on what being a modern feminist means. The media have a large part to play in this. I mean, what kind of interviewer asks the question “do you consider yourself a feminist?” (as was asked of Jackie O)? To me this question is designed to set her up for public debate whichever way she chose to answer.
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Why the need to label? Sure I like Caitlin Moran’s definition of feminism (a, b and c – ha that’s gold!) on a “light” level as ti were, but why does it matter so much to you and others what someone calls themselves? I personally don’t like being limited to labels, and if she chooses to reject a certain name then its up to her. I get the point Jackie O might be rejecting the label “feminist” because she doesn’t like the connotations the word might or might not imply to her (whatever her understanding of “feminism” is), but again, what is it to you whether she calls herself something or not?
An open letter to Jackie O is setting her up to criticism just because she doesn’t want to label herself something that you are happy to call yourself. I don’t think that’s very fair.
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Feminism lost me in a lecture at uni. The lecturer announced that for the next two weeks, as we discussed feminist theory, no male was entitled to speak. So I called the double standard on that one, being part of the privileged part of the class and was told that if I championed men I was “a sell-out to the patriarchy”.
Sure, that’s one nutbag. One bad experience. … Or is it?
Read recent feminist works by such theoreticians as Irigaray and Kristeva. They are full of marginalization and gender-based bias. And, I’m sorry, if it was wrong for one gender to attempt to oppress the other when it was male vs female, then the opposite is also wrong.
Celebrating one’s femininity is NOT feminism, not if you’ve read the theoretical stuff. I have read it. I’m a proud woman. A proud experiencer of the human condition. But I am NOT going to identify as a feminist.
And before you start suggesting that people DO identify themselves as such, a little more research into what it REALLY means, rather than what you assume it means would be sensible.
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Thank you.
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Hey Tam, I was disillusioned with feminism at uni too. Because my lecturer said you couldn’t wear lipstick and be a feminist!
And I’ve always liked lipstick!
The point is that those ideals about feminism are extreme and outdated and don’t do justice to the much broader feminist umbrella under which most women stand.
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I think that some labels outlive their usefulness. In my opinion, feminism is one.
It wasn’t just the lecturer. It was the entire canon of feminist theoretical work that made me decide that this label was not one I want to associate with. Sorry.
I’m all for the equality. But, nope, not calling myself a feminist.
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but those extreme ideals about feminism are what feminism is based on – i think the broader feminist umbrella you speak of Mia is what needs a new name?
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So Jackie O doesn’t want to label herself so what!! Why should she have to?
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I’m a single mother, I have three strong, tertiary educated daughters and a dozen nieces and while I believe in and embrace every single thing that feminism stands for, I wouldn’t label myself a ‘feminist.’
To me, it’s like born again Christians who are righteous about their religion. People who have religion embroidered into the fabric of themselves have no need to expose it like a trophy. It’s like wearing your underpants on top of your jeans.
Believing in the equality of women is just part of who I am. I don’t think about it in the context of Australian women. I don’t look for ways to become strident or militant. If I see an injustice I see the human first and the gender second.
In 2012 it’s about teaching our daughters to be realistic. If they want children then they have to choose careers that can be worked around a family. That is the way it is. If they want to smash the non-existent glass ceiling then go for it but be prepared to put in the sixty or eighty hours a week to do it.
And I’m so sick of the applause for mediocrity. Jackie O is on radio as a sidekick to a shock jock. It’s a third rate show where a woman is used to soften his edge and provide balance, or, if I’m being cynical, to keep the women tuned in while she does her ‘you can’t say that Kyle, that’s just awful’ routine.
I think she’s a nice girl but she’s hardly a ‘role model’ for young women and if she doesn’t want to be labeled, good on her. Today’s women are educated enough to not need to emulate her and I’m surprised any of them actually listen to it.
And can we please get past the Emily’s List nonsense of backing women who clearly have no ability but are willing to sign a pledge to be abortion advocates? It is ridiculous. I think it’s about time we realised that men have come a long way in the last thirty years as well. Give us some talent and substance and integrity and strength and honesty and ability – I don’t care if it comes from a woman or a man or a bloody monkey!
Dr Fiona Wood IS a role model. Julia Gillard is not. How about we start celebrating EXCELLENT achievement and EXCELLENT outcomes and not keep reaching for an incontinence pad to contain our over-excitement every time a woman achieves ANYTHING.
Women in Australia CAN do anything they like, they just can’t do it all. Can we please stop this victim mentality.
We must remain vigilant, we SHOULD do what we can for women living in hideous circumstances, we should be grateful for those who have gone before and worked for what we now have. We should never take it for granted but the glory days of the ’cause’ are behind us and to keep grasping at it like the fight is still in front of us is a little bit pathetic.
How about we start a new cause – militantly demanding that our children’s health be protected from food imported from third world countries when we can grow it here. The sale of our agricultural land to foreign countries. The formaldehyde that contaminates a frightening number of clothes, toys and baby equipment. The brain tumor clusters, that will be hitting the news in a week or two, in schools who insist that technology is the way to go and ignore the radiation risks of sitting children in front of computers, laptops and IPads for hours as well as having WiFi running throughout schools and homes.
There is plenty to fight for to ensure a wonderful future for ALL Australians.
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I could not have put this better myself. Sensibly expressed all round !!
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What do you mean by the ‘non existent glass ceiling’?
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The glass ceiling DOES NOT EXIST. We have women in the highest echelons of every sphere but they are not there in numbers because most women want to put their time into their children and that is simply a fact. It is a choice not a requirement.
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Hmm, I think there are holes in it, for sure, but it’s still there generally if women and men aren’t rising the management ranks in roughly equal numbers.
Are women giving up careers in droves for children because they want to, or because society and their upbringing has told them to, in order to be a good mother? Why aren’t men giving up their jobs in equal proportions? Are they worse at raising kids?
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Well said!
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This sounds suspiciously like some of that feministy-propagandy-type stuff to me….
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What’s feministy-propagandy-type stuff?
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When you are telling both your daughters AND your sons that they need to plan their career around their family then we will have made some progress. How ridiculous to perpetuate the thinking that raising children is a woman’s job. Get off your high horse and take a good look at yourself!!
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Agree! (especially about the high horse
)
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… maybe she doesn’t have any sons to tell it to?
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Gee thanks for your enormous contribution. I was, of course, speaking generally. Didn’t feel like I had to spell it out but apparently I do. Lowest common denominator & all that……
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Wow, Snap!!, what an aggressive reply to Cags inoffensive comment. I actually have two sons in their 20′s and have told them the same as I’ve told my daughters. You see, in case I didn’t make it CLEAR, I believe in equality but with that comes choices and sacrifices as well as benefits.
Do you need a hand to get back on your high horse or do you ride a broom?
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What BS you very clearly state above that you are teaching your daughters to be realistic you made no mention of your sons at all. Don’t try & backtrack now when it is in writing!!
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What a nasty piece of work you are, Snap. In the context of my comment I didn’t feel the need to include my sons. Their father was a workaholic in order to shirk the responsibilities of raising children. I want them to have balance. I certainly don’t feel like giving the likes of you one more moment of my life you strident little know-nothing.
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“If they want children then they have to choose careers that can be worked around a family”
Would you tell your sons the same thing? Why/why not?
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I agree with absolutely everything you’ve said except for where you say Julia Gillard isn’t a role model. She may not be to everyone or be of everyone’s political persuasion but she’d be one of the hardest working people in this country and she’s probably had to work a bit harder than the average male politician would to get to where she has. She also receives a lot of flack and personal attacks that in some cases would obviously not occur if she was male.
My 9 year old has often talked of being prime minister one day and when Ms Gillard became prime minister it inspired her and made her think ‘if she can then I can too’ – already at her age she believed it was a man’s job! I don’t necessarily agree with all of Ms Gillard’s policies but I was actually relieved that my daughters have a very clear example that it is not just a man’s job.
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Yeah, I see your point, choc. I just wish she had used her position to showcase that women put integrity before boy’s clubs. Being a puppet for Bob Brown leaves a filthy taste in my mouth. I would rather she led the Opposition with dignity than allow herself to be used and manipulated and to bareface lie with ‘up yours’ arrogance is unforgivable. But I do see your point.
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Yay, Anon, I don’t need to reply as you’ve said it all, thank you!
And personally I think Jackie O is an utter waste of space, sorry.
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I appreciate and am so greatful for what the women’s liberation has achieved.
BUT..
What point is Sarah Jessica Parker missing when she labels herself a humanist. If I had to choose a label for my stance on equality or fairness, humanist would be closer than feminist because I believe in standing up for women’s, children’s and men’s rights alike. I feel like just because I’m born a female I am obliged to label myself a feminist. This is certainly how I read the article.
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I know this is an opinion column but lately it’s more of a ‘do as I say, think as I think’ column. Suppose it gets hits and sells advertising.
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People like Jackie O say they’re not feminists because part of their audience are males who don’t want women to be ‘feminists’ and have some weird ass preconception of what ‘feminists’ are: men hating, bra burning shrill spinsters. People like Jackie O sell out their own side because don’t want to alienate part of their demographic. Also whilst I’m on this rant Jackie O should be ashamed for her tacit approval of vile Kyle’s attack on that poor woman journalist late last year.
I’m a feminist and a lesbian. I don’t hate men. I don’t know any woman who does. We just don’t find them that interesting
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See, that’s the problem. Feminism gets a bad name because so many of its advocates cant seem to understand that most thinking men and women believe in those rights for all and fight for them. The silly comment “We just don’t find them that interesting” is pretty sad really: you mean that in all your life you have never met or known of a man that is interesting? or inspiring? or worthy of your attention? And you somehow believe you speak for all women?
No wonder many women do not wish to wear the same label…
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Howard, Howard, Howard. Where did I say I spoke for all women? I specifically said ‘I don’t know any woman who does’… Clearly I know a lot of women – but not all of them. Secondly have I met a man who I find interesting…. uh frankly just one. I have met some nice guys, I have some guy friends. Also the ‘WINK’ was to be in jest – lighten up. There are some interesting men around – that I’d like to meet one day.
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And people accuse *feminists* of a lack of humour …
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I like the term post-feminism-feminism. Clumsy, but perhaps appropriate for the generation of women taking feminism to a different level and who are approaching it in a different way.
I am always thankful for the generations of women who burned their bras, embraced political lesbianism and fought so I could have choices. Now I choose to advocate for equal rights wearing lipstick, high-heels, with my children on my lap and embracing my choice to be in part-time paid employment.
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Yeah but we’re not post-feminism. We live in a porn culture, sexual assault is rife and we earn less than men. Sure, come up with a new type of feminism, but post-feminist feminism isn’t helpful. It sounds like the job is done, and it’s not.
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Do you think there were not plenty of self-declared feminists doing exactly as you are doing now, back in the day?
“Heels”. you say?! omg.
“Today’s” women think they’re so different or ‘radical’ in the sense that they think they’re a more “relaxed” kind of feminist, who wears lipstick and fights for mothering choices….
The problem with these stereotypes, is that they were largely created by men to turn women away from feminism or calling themselves feminists. They were not that based in reality. Feminists were as diverse in their beliefs, looks and behavior back then, as they are today.
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Thank you! Sharing.
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I am a feminist. I have been since I was a very young girl reading Great Women of History. I think many young women today take for granted the rights they have and have little idea of the struggle their predecessors endured to gain these rights for us all. Can you imagine not having the right to own property, to vote, for financial independence, to study or work in the field of your choice?
If you’re happy to forgo those rights, then that’s fine, you’re not a feminist. Give the car keys to your husband and get back in the house!
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Thankyou Mia. My poor husband had to put up with a much less elloquent version of this last week when I heard a similar thing on the radio.
My daughters are 9 and 5 and they know who the Suffragettes were and that there are still women in other countries putting thier lives on hold and on the line in the cause of equality. They also know that it’s not OK to say boys are dumb or boys smell. I remind them of all the beautiful men and boys in our lives. To think feminism is anti-male is just plain wrong.
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very well written, I agree on everything!
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Jackie O is like Andrea in The Devil Wears Prada. She doesn’t think it applies to her although the women before her GAVE her the opportunity to be where she is today. She should be grateful. It just goes to show that women still care more about what men think because they don’t want men to think they are associated with those ‘hairy, bra-burning women’ from back then. There is still so much work to do!! Jackie O has done damage with her comments, we need women like you Mia and others with a huge media presence to step out and say ‘Feminism is still relevant and we need to keep fighting.’ Help us start the movement again. Women are more sexualised, overworked and disrespected than ever. They need to begin by teaching women’s studies to ALL students, in ALL secondary schools. And since Anzac Day is looming, why don’t we ask for a public holiday for all the women who’ve lost their lives in childbirth as well?? Equal self-sacrifice if you ask me. We need to fight fire with fire and show how one-sided this planet still is.
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I’m a feminist for all of the reasons you outlined above Mia and I’m damn proud of it!
I think men/ the media and shamefully some women have been allowed to twist the definition of feminist/ feminism to suit their own agendas. They’ve created a stereotype of the ‘no bra, no shaving, ‘hippy woman’. Which is a stereotype and that’s all. It shouldn’t be allowed to define what feminism is.
I think it’s tragic Jackie O doesn’t consider herself a feminist after the rights women in previous generations fought for us to now enjoy. Get some guts lady!
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Isn’t part of being a feminist allowing women to choose???
If she doesn’t want to be identified as a feminist she doesn’t have to be!!
Why does Mia feel the need to judge Jackie on this??
Just let people be!!!!
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totally agree!
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No, feminism is not about choosing not to identify as a feminist. That’s quite a bizzare theory.
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Yes, I’m a feminist. However i am unsure why we need to categorise ourselves and screem it from the rooftops. Cant we live the life we want to lead and set an example for young people without continually having to declare we are feminists?
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why not declare you’re a feminist? Shame? Fear? I don’t get it.
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Why jump on someone if they dont call themselves a feminist but still believe in women’s equality etc? Not directing this to you astrochicky, just making a point that you don’t have to call yourself something to believe in a certain cause/movement.
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I am a feminist, but would never say so out loud. As soon as I say, ‘I am a feminist’, people stop listening to me (real live people in my social circle). I’d rather say “I’m not a feminist but…” because then they’ll actually think about what I’m saying and not write me off as a crazy.
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Zimba, for that exact reason I always say that I’m a feminist.
I’m traditionally good looking (pretty face, long blond hair, size 6/8 with massive boobs), I love men (and adore sex) and now I’m a doctor (and kicking ass at it). With every guy I date I make sure he knows I’m a feminist so he can get it through his head that feminism is about having the same rights and standard of living as men, and not being disadvantaged by being a women (which you are if you live in fear of sexual assault, get paid less, etc). It’s not about hating men or being a difficult person – or whatever else Jackie O and Zoe Foster are so scared of being identified as!!
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I totally get you. *nod nod
Feminism has just done such a bad job of branding and positioning itself that it needs people like you (who are braver than me) to re-brand it.
But I am getting braver. May take a little while… doesn’t it get exhausting!
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why let them change you – why not change them?
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I guess… because I’m pragmatic? Isn’t it better talk about an issue at hand (such as maternity leave, workplace opportunity, sexual harassment) rather than spend all this time defending why I am a feminist/why feminism is relevant?
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as I see it they go hand in hand
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But Zimba, don’t you think that that subject in and of itself would make an interesting conversation? You could really use it as an opening and engaging topic opener – and it would be interesting to hear what people said after you’d been open about your reticence to speak your truth… thoughts?
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Yeah, that’s a good point – I could say, “I always feel hesitant to call myself a feminist, but I am and here’s what I believe… hear me out…” I will give it a go. But I also predict a lot of eye rolling in return.
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I completely understand what you mean Zimba – in that some circles, you will get shouted down or ignored. BUT, I think this quote you gave above will be an excellent way to broach it… ?
I call myself a feminist, and people DO roll their eyes or get their backs up.
I personally don’t care, but totallyunderstand why some people do care, and why they feel they can get their point across better if they don’t say “i’m a feminist’ first.
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I I’m in no way embarrassed, and I definately have no fear in declaring myself as a feminist but I feel actions speak loader than words. Why do women continually have to declare they are feminists – why not live the life and set the example, why does everything we do need a title
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I was so disapointed to read on Zoe Foster’s tumblr that she did not consider herself a feminist- and so pleased to see recently she’d had a change of heart
http://zoefoster.tumblr.com/post/18576524615/hey-zoe-in-an-earlier-post-you-say-you-do-not-identify
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I find it really hard to see how someone can besidered a feminist when they have commited their lives (and careers) to reinforcing gender sterotypes and convincing women that their looks are of primary importance.
Zoe’s a beauty writer, so has chosen a career committed to convincing women that they need to and should spend their time and money on beauty products and looking prettier, so they can snag a man (the other topic of her books).
The two things just don’t correlate to me. It’s like saying you’re a campaigning vegan and owning an abbatoir.
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If you read Amazing Face, it’s more about feeling good about yourself.
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It’s funny isn’t it, (and I promise you that I’m not having a go Born in 73), that the whole anti – feminist is also anti “not wearing a bra, wearing overalls and having hairy armpits”. What the bleeding hell is wrong with any those is also beyond me? It sounds to me like an average long weekend at my place ! Bras are definitely uncomfortable, overalls are great for getting around the house in and my armpit hair is my own, there’s nothing to be ashamed of! I am a feminist also, and at times, have been all of the above for long periods of time and still considered myself to be a stylish, sexy, although admittedly individually-minded woman. What the hell is wrong with a woman Not spending half her life grooming, filing, pushing herself into uncomfortable clothes and shoes? I know it’s kinda off topic, and yes, there’s a point that people don’t want to be called a “femmo” because they think it will make them unattractive, but we do need to back up a bit here and ask the question, are we a slave to this ideal also?
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You made me laugh – it sounds like a weekend at my place too!
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Sounds like me too – totally agree with you there. Sick of this “hairy ugly lesbian” stereotype being brandished threateningly at women – as if it’s the most disgusting thing a woman can be. And that is why we still need feminism! Why can’t we be ok with homosexuality, natural body hair and making choices about what we wear without being ridiculed. Most women in the western world (or THIS country anyway) still lack the real social freedom to stop shaving, stop wearing make up and put in as much effort appearance wise as men can – women can do it but they will face scorn, and ridicule.
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The only thing I think Caitlin Moran got wrong there was needing a vagina. Plenty of feminist blokes out there too – and yay for them. Pretty sure Sam de Brito puts himself in this basket Mia?
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I miss Mamamia tv now you have mentioned Sam…
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Yep, my dad was a feminist. Taught me to never devalue myself and never put myself in a position to be completely reliant on someone else.
He’s awesome
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I suspect the problem many people have with the term “feminism” is that they remember when, decades ago, it meant the denigration of men. Generations of men (and women) are still suffering from the fallout of that, unfortunately.
But what is good is that the term “feminism” is being reclaimed and has begun to fight against this.
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Nice point Wade. I think that you’ve hit at least one of the nails on the head
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When was it about the denigration of men? I have women friends who once were paid less than the men sitting across from them with the same job title and I don’t think it was the males being denigrated. I don’t want to denigrate men either, but it seems to me that women have been denigrated far more vehemently and for far longer than women have. Where is the fall-out from that?
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I do not fully understand what feminism is anymore.I thought it was something that happened in the seventies and slowly progressed to make women more equal and as respected as men. Now thinking about that women are still judged by looks, age , sexiness, porn and photoshopping. Young girls are exposed to porn and crudeness early and i am so surprised by how manny mums think its funny to hear the kids singing lyrics to “sexy and i know it ” S&M etc etc. Domestic violence is still rife and pedophiles seem to inhabit the net in the thousands , women are binge drinking and drugging harder than ever is this because women are trying to show men whatever you can do i can do harder. If you want sex we will give it to however you want even if it hurts our self worth we will strive for unatainable perfection and agelessness and when we hit a certain age we will become redundant because thats the enviroment we have created for ourselves by trying to be feminists.
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What a load of rubbish
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She probably wasn’t sure of its true definition and was playing it safe…
I think people today still think proclaimed feminist are people marching the street with signs and hating on men.
Your ‘softer’ definition below is great and empowering. I think (or hope) Jackie would have immediately said yes if the question was framed differently.
“Feminism is simply about believing women should have equality and the right to make decisions about our own lives. Whether to work, who to marry, what jobs to do, whether to have children, when to have them, how many, who to vote for, what to wear…….the list goes on.”
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I’d be inclined to say that given the way Jackie O has allowed herself to be treated by Kyle and the behaviour she has allowed herself to be associated with on the radio show that maybe she isn’t a feminist.
I know that she has done a lot of good things as well, but I can never separate her from the borish mysogynist that she unfortunately aligned her career with.
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So many women have fought SO hard for our equality. I am so very grateful for their strength and sacrifice. We can vote and go to work and fly planes and go swimming in the ocean and do so many things our great grandmas were not free to do. The fight continues for our sisters in many countries around the world.
Never take freedom for granted.
I AM A FEMINIST!!!
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I think that calling yourself ‘feminist’ is as fraught as calling yourself ‘christian’ in terms of how you’ll be perceived.
Under the Christian banner, you can be part of an extremist cult (Waco, Texas style) or you can perform much needed charitable work in the forgotten backstreets of a major city.
Unfortunately, some women who have flown the feminist banner have held and published extreme and mysandric views and have damaged the brand.
The term can make me flinch from time to time.
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I’d be far more likely to label myself a ‘feminist’, if there were not such a strong link between ‘feminism’ and ‘pro-choice’ (re abortion). I am passionate about women’s rights, as well as being passionately pro-man (i love men!), but i am equally as passionate about children, especially those who are too young to protect themselves (read: unborn).
It seems to me that it is the ‘feminist’ lobby that is pushing for more abortion ‘rights’ – hence why I, and so many of my female friends, refuse to describe ourselves as ‘feminist’ … #foodforthought
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Jo – I agree totally with you. I am a young, university educated woman and find that there is little I can relate to when listening to feminist diktat. I have traditional values and am pro-life, wish to stay home with children and make my family, not my career my first priority. It seems that these goals do not fit into the feminist ideal. (In fact, I remember reading an article on this website that Melinda Tankard Reist had no right to call herself a feminist because she was not ‘pro-choice’)
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Did you even read the article through?
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Same here.
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Aha!!!! I knew it!!! And can someone tell me what’s wrong with being a lesbian? And dude who thinks men are still suffering because of feminism, please out yourself as an anti-family law campaigner now and stop wasting our time.
What I find interesting, and fabulous, is that all of the things we take for granted were achieved by feminists. They are all now part of the everyday fabric of our lives. Right now, the two large political parties are trying to outdo each other round Paid Parental Leave, once the policy domain of feminists. It just wouldn’t hurt to be a tiny bit acknowledging.
In a lifetime of feminist activism, I’ve met a lot of different feminists, but I’ve never met ANY who hate men. I’ve met a lot who dislike the systems, values and beliefs that perpetuate a unfair world that is changing,bit by bit. I remember when we questioned shaving our underarms and legs, and it seems to me that it centred around the same type of thinking that the anti-sexualiaton of young women campaigns centre around now.
Yes, happily feminist. Daughter, mother and sister of feminists, and men who supported ‘women’s rights’, as they would say. Straight but lover of the right of women to love who they choose, and raise families of our choice.
And yes, there is a pay equity gap, even the Herald-Sun thinks so. And who do you think conceptualised and fought for the anti-discrimination legislation you say has ameliorated the gender/wages gap/ It was feminists (and civil rights activists).
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If you’re all anti-choice then you’re quite right to not call yourselves feminists.
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Why? Taking choice and rights away from women IS anti-feminist.
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Well said Mia! Very straight forward and explained very nicely. I think sometimes that women shy away from being labeled as ‘feminist’ due to some of the extreme beliefs that some people hold regarding feminism and women’t rights.
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I’d like to know what she thinks feminism is. Perhaps invite her to write a piece or be interviewed on the subject?
The comments section for the Greer/Gillard article were an eye opener in regards to this as well. Feminism is purely and simply about have equal opportunities and equal rights. My dad is a feminist. My late maternal grandfather was a feminist. Strangely enough I’m one as well.
This current generation of girls and young women have me shaking my head in despair. Mind you, if they’re too dumb or disinterested to learn a bit of history or investigate for themselves then maybe they deserve everything they get.
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Maybe I’m lucky, maybe I’m naive, but I truly believe at this stage my life hasn’t been disadvantaged by being a woman.
I feel I have been given every opportunity that males my ages have been. Maybe that’s why for me, feminism seems a tad irrelevant. Take what you want from that as I am sure others will say that’s not the case for them.
I’m also in a female dominated profession though, so maybe I’ve just been a bit sheltered.
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Don’t you feel though that you haven’t been disadvantaged because of all the hard work done by feminists in the past? We’re standing on the shoulders of women who fought hard so that future generations of women could have equal rights. It makes me feel a bit sad that some young women now don’t recognise this because they didn’t have to fight the hard fight.
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No, I totally agree! I have it so lucky because of ehat has been achieved by feminists in the past.
My comment doesn’t mean feminisim is irrelevant, it just holds a little less value to me than what it would have back in the early years of feminisim.
I think it can become a bit of a rant, and we need to be looking at things more positively – look how far we’ve come!!
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Absolutely odette!
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This is the attitude that makes me want to beat my head against the wall: that feminism is irrelevant these days… it’s all over now, the deed is done, the battle is won… we don’t need to be feminists any more….
Bollocks to that!! We all stand upon the shoulders of those who battled before us. It behoves us to always be mindful of that, and to always pay it forward so that our daughters will achieve and progress further than we have.
Otherwise they may look back at us one day and say, “Mum, why did you drop the ball?”
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I don’t feel like my life has been disdvantaged thus far either Karina…. but I look around my male-dominated office… and I look at the very few women in senior managerial positions in any organisation I’ve worked in… and I can see that something seems amiss.
I think the true disadvantages will reveal themselves when I either A) have children (and try to have a career as well) or B) attempt to make the move from my current ‘middle management’ position into ‘senior management’.
(and this is just in Australia – let’s not forget the much more serious issues women face in some other countries)
You’re right though, we are SO lucky to live in this day and age (and country)… I do feel that I can do anything with my career and my life and I am grateful every day for all those bra burners that came before me.
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Well said Mia. Totally agree. Was really disappointed to read that from Jackie. What is she thinking?!
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The last time I said this on this site, I got absolutely flogged, but – I think that the problem is the association with a very specific stereotype. It’s hard to want to identify with what people think feminists are. We need to teach people that feminism doesn’t have to mean being like the women of the second wave – if collective understanding of “feminist” leaned more toward “I’m in favor of equal rights” and less toward “I’m going to burn my bra now and hate men”, the percentage of women willing to identify as feminists would probably rise. Kathleen Rowe calls this the generation of “I’m not a feminist, but” – they like the ideals but not the label.
As far as my personal stance on feminism goes, I heard a great quote the other day about racism that I think applies so well here – “we’ve come a long way to get nowhere.” Equality is still a long way off, the gender divide is just played out in different ways. The thing that makes me sad about Jackie O is that she works next to somebody so disgustingly misogynist (Kyle), and doesn’t use her voice for change (or to balance out his). The media is the message and the messenger, and it’s up to us to change it.
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I feel bullied by this article.
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Now come on Mia. We shouldn’t be so harsh and judgemental about JackieO.
She needs to be the soft, pretty compliant girl sitting off to the side, that’s her schtick.
If you ask her to give that up what does she have left?
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Thanks Mia, I have just started a “feminist wall” of pictures in my house to celebrate the wonderful unconventional and strong women who have changed to world in their own way. So far I have Freda Kahlo, Florence Nightingale and wonder woman.
When my 8yr old stated that Freda was ugly, I was able to explain that Freda painted pictures that went against the perceived conventions of what women should look like, she painted pictures of herself and for herself.
We will move onto Florence and Wonder Woman another day.
Ideas to add to my wall will be appreciated.
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How about Ita Buttrose, JK Rowling, Margaret Olley
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What a great idea.
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Awesome idea Bel! I sat down with my daughter and we did a school project together on the suffragettes. It was a real eye opener for her. They were strong, brave women. Plenty of images on the net.
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This is a fabulous idea!
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Thanks ladies, some great ideas. Will check out the net, so many wonderful women.
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If you were looking for someone local, Anne Summers is a pioneer of the feminist movement for Australians.
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My favourite quote, from the awesome Nancy Wake:
“I hate wars and violence, but if they come I don’t see why we women should just wave our men a proud goodbye and then knit them balaclavas.”
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thankyou mia! i have always been dumbfounded when people say they aren’t a feminist – surely everyone is a feminist (men and women) – surely everyone agrees women should have equal rights and opportunties as men?
but then i look at advertisements/some tv shows/etc and think maybe I am being naive!
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I AM A STRIDENT FEMINIST!
As Caitlin puts it ‘Do you have a vagina? Would you like to be in charge of it/” if you answered yes to both these questions, then you are a feminist.
No, I am not a Germaine Greer supporter. No, I am not an extremist. I believe I have the right to act as I please. I constantly look over at men, who probably don’t care about their job security if they choose to have children, who don’t feel (as much) pressure to worry about the hair on their legs, armpits or upper lip.
I look over at women in many, many countries who do not have the choice over who they marry, when and how many children they have, if they can have an education, if they can choose their profession… and I am astounded (Mia, did you know your own Zoe Foster also claims she is not a feminist!) that any woman in our lucky country would not count themselves blessed to be called a feminist… It makes me wonder.
I am thankful for all the women who have pushed the feminist agenda… because without it we would be a very sorry lot indeed.
I stand on my chair and I bellow: I AM A STRIDENT FEMINIST!!!!
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really…? is it true that Zoe Foster also says she isn’t a feminist?
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Well… according to her Tumblr account, where someone asked her if she calls herself one, she replied in the negative.
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I assumed she wouldn’t mind being called a feminist because she seems so switched on and clever – just goes to show you shouldn’t make assumptions!
but…it does disappoint me a bit knowing this….
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Anonymous: hey zoe, in an earlier post you say you do not identify as a feminist. now that you’ve read/are reading how to be a woman by caitlin moran, have you changed your mind?
Dear Follow Up Feminist Question Asker,
YES!
I am now a strident feminist with an evangelical and devout attachment to the violently clever and funny Caitlin Moran, and her outstanding book, How To Be A Woman, an author and book title which both exist in your question, but which I have blatantly repeated, and made bold, in a thinly veiled effort to subconsciously plant both into people’s brains.
God she’s good. It’s disgraceful.
From your friend,
Zoe
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This is so true, and I wonder if it’s part of a bigger problem? I have a friend that once said to me “I hate the word woman, it sounds so gross.”
I consider myself a feminist, she does not.
I think a feminist is a woman who wants equality and choice for everyone, and it is a shame that in some people’s eyes that makes you an agressive, man-hating, lesbian or some other ridiculous stereotype.
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Ah, Mia, you are brilliant. Put every one of my feelings in words and written them down exactly. I think we are all feminists, it’s just that some of us have trouble associating with the term, because of the negative connotations (whether real or imagined) that have attached over time. After reading Caitlin Moran’s book last year, that quote was the one that stayed with me – so true.
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Actually I was just grateful she’s honest about it. I’m tired of women who trot out the most retrograde opinions & beliefs, and follow it up with “But I’m a feminist!” That sends me WTF?
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This!
I’ve always simply thought that ‘feminism’ meant ‘equality’. That’s all it was for me.
But when people think of the word ‘feminism’ these days, they think of big lesbian-type people refusing to wear make up and shave their legs, doing things like insisting on calling manholes ‘people holes’.
Which is obviously extremely, utterly stupid. All of it. It’s pathetic that people want to distance themselves from the entire concept (knowing that equality is still a part of it) because of a ridiculous stereotype.
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Why does she have to be a feminist ? She’s a woman who doesn’t identify as a feminist. Isn’t that her choice ?
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I think we need to be educated on what a Modern Feminist is Mia. Thanks for paving the way in your post. I almost dropped my coffee yesterday when I read Jackie’s article. She should read this post.
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On an aside – great disco party pics Mrs Woogs. Jack is such a cutie!
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I find that a lot of younger women don’t understand what being a feminist means. When I ask my university class of mainly younger women to put their hand up if they are a feminist, the majority look unimpressed and almost…grossed out…like ewww! no! At that point, I generally say, okay well, put your hand in the air if you believe men and women should have equal rights and that women should have the same choices as men, at which point, they all shoot their hands up into the air. At that point, I say well, then you are all feminists. Explanation, much discussion ensues…
There definitely is a universal idea of bra-burning, the rejection of femininity and man hating and getting past it is always hard. I’m not sure why this perception is so entrenched, but it is.
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Yes, Mia! It is astonishinig to me how many of my friends do not consider themselves, and actively distance themselves from the term, feminist.
I came from a family of all girls whose heritage was in farming, where the boys, by virtue of their gender, stood to inherit the farm, and the girls were meant to be taken care of by their husbands. Luckily for us, our parents taught us to never accept that a) we should not expect to be taken care of by our husbands and b) we can do anything that we set our minds to, regardless of whether we have girl bits or boy bits. We also went to a fantastic (girls) school that also espoused the philosophy that we could achieve whatever we wanted to, and that our gender should never hold us back.
Which is why, when asked at a barbeque one day, whether I was a feminist, I proudly replied “yes”, and was surprised to find such a negative reaction to the term, as though I was not wearing a bra and clumping around in overalls with hairy armpits. I am female, I believe in equality, therefore I am a feminist. Its not that hard, is it?
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I read that comment in an otherwise great interview with the same feelings of confusion and despair.
Ask anyone if they believe women and men are equal* and should be treated equally and they’ll almost certainly answer “yes”, but ask them if they’re a feminist and many will say either “no” or “yes, but….[insert some pointless qualifying statement here about how you still like to shave your armpits or something]“.
I think it’s a combination of ignorance of what a ‘feminist’ and ‘feminisim’ actually is, the image problem feminism itself seems to have and, possibly in this case, the reluctance of high profile women to be seen to be at all ‘political’… I also think it’s a shame.
*Equal….as in having equal rights, not equal as in ‘exactly the same’… sigh… that’s an argument for a different day though.
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Hooray Mia! Well said! I read that Jackie O interview and was horrified. What is that people think feminism is??? I am a bit worried about today’s teenaged girls and their seeming distaste for showing their strength. I discovered last week that my stepson’s co-ed state high school has two male school captains and no female captain this year. I asked my stepson why, and he reported that no girl wanted to nominate for school captain. Not one single girl! There’s a couple of hundred kids in the class and slightly over half are girls. WTF????
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I’m a feminist!
But I’m secretly happy that people like Jackie O feel they don’t have to be feminists. Because that means that she is happy with the place she has carved out in the world and the choices she was free to make. And isn’t that, after all, the end state we are striving for? Happy, self directed women?
(and yes, I do realise we have a long way to go…. But look back, we have come a long way too!)
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There’s nothing in the world that I would rather be than a feminist. I love the freedom too, too much to give it back
I am in charge of my house, my work, my children, my body, my education and my money. I’ve seen my mother and her friends lose all these things because they were women. No other reason. No thank you!
I am so grateful to the feminists who came before me and I hope I do them proud by enabling other women to be free of the limitations of a (still!) male-dominated society, although I hope it is in its last dying gasps and it won’t be kicking around for much longer
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Thank you, Susan As Well, for putting it down so well! In this man’s world, to be able to say what you say in your second paragraph, is equality. In the 1960s, even into the 1970s, most women would not have been able to say they were fully in charge of a single one of these things: men always had the final say. (Think about that, Jackie O!) That said, equal pay and equal opportunity continue to elude us a lot of the time. But progress we do – slowly. Vive la feminism!
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