The sisters with their grandmother
UPDATE: The father at the centre of an international custody dispute has pleaded with the Australian public to “calm down”.
Speaking through an interpreter, he said: “I am destroyed because my daughters remain not well.”
He words come in the wake of an Australian Family Court judge’s decision to send the man’s four daughters – aged 9 between 15 – from Australian to Italy to be with him.
Since the four girls arrived at his home last week, television crews have filmed emotion scene – including one incident where the two oldest girls tried to run away.
The father has not let his daughters talk to their mother since they arrived in Italy. “I said to her, stay calm, it is impossible for you to speak to the girls. I hope she comes here in peace. That is my wish. If she continues with the war and the struggles, it’s not going to help anything,” he said.
Mamamia previously reported…
It was a distressing scene.
Holiday-makers waiting for flights at Brisbane’s International Airport today, witnessed four young girls being dragged by more than ten uniformed officers, through the terminal and onto a plane.
The girls, sisters aged 9 between 15, have been at the center of an international custody dispute and have been ordered to return to Italy so that the legal matter can be resolved.
Other passengers looked on in horror as the girls refused to board the flight voluntarily; screaming and shouting that they wanted to remain with their mother in Australia.
“Let me go, I want to go home” cried the eldest sister as she was forcibly pulled towards the airport gate.
“Let me go, I want my mum, I want my mum” called one of the younger girls.
The parents of the girls had a shared custody arrangement prior to their mother bringing them to Australia in June 2010 on holiday and then refusing to return.
Their father then invoked an international treaty against child abduction, in an attempt to have the girls returned to Italy so that the custody dispute could be resolved under Italian laws.
Yesterday a family court judge ordered that sisters be returned to Italy to live with their father as soon as possible. The girls’ mother was in court while the judgement was read and cried throughout the process.
As part of his judgement the Australian family court judge Justice Forest required an undertaking from the father that any criminal action against the mother would be withdrawn. The Department of Communities will send officials to care for the children on their journey to Italy.
Last night there were reports that the girls’ mother clung to an Australian Federal Police vehicle as it drove away with her children inside. She then fell to the ground, sobbing and exhausted.
The mother told ABC Radio in Brisbane this morning: ‘‘I’m just praying, I don’t know what to think, I’m just terrified right now”.
News.com.au reports that late last night:
The girls and their father.
[Reporters] witnessed one of the girls trying to escape from the rear of another car before she was restrained by one of two male officers in the vehicle.
They had just detained the girl after she tried to flee the apartment where they found her and her sisters. She banged on the rear window of the vehicle as it drove off, tearfully crying out that she wanted to talk to the journalist.
The four girls had spent their last hours of freedom together waiting in fear at the home of an elderly family friend. They watched the TV news as they waited for the knock on the door that would signal their deportation.
This final refuge for the girls, who spent weeks in hiding with their great-grandmother this year when the court first ordered they be returned, was a unit in a retirement village on the Sunshine Coast. The normally tranquil surrounds were yesterday evening a scene of tears, anxiety and defiance.
The eldest girl spoke briefly to The Courier-Mail but was too fearful of the consequences for her mother, who the court has banned from talking to the media, to give any information. “I’ll get my mum in trouble, I have to go,” she said.
The Australian judge has made clear that the girls’ mother is of course free to return to Italy as well. There are currently no reports that the mother is considering doing so.
Comments on this post have now been closed.
373 Comments so far
If you read the judgement, it is quite clear that the girls all told the original counsellor that they wanted to return to Italy. The mother was provided with a copy of the report that stated this and only after she had seen this did the girls started raising all of the issues re Italy and their father.
It’s fine to say kids should have a say but when they’ve been continually manipulated it’s impossible.
The judge also found that the girls objection to returning must be considered in light of the fact that they have been continuously told if they do return they will never see their mother again…
, the parents were separated for 2 years in Italy and had a consent order that dictated custody arrangements ie. her and the father agreed to it and had the court sign off on it. For two years she allowed the girls to visit their father and even tried to talk him into moving to Australia with them. If he was so abusive why did she agree to shared care and allow the girls to visit for those years and why would she have asked him to move here??
And finally, if I wasn’t already convinced of the mothers selfishness, the carry on when the girls were being returned confirmed it. She took no steps to prepare the kids and went out of her way to inflame them. A responsible mother would have gone reassured them and let them draw strength from her… But not this lady
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Please read the court judgement and then comment.
I promise you will change your opinion of the case after you do.
The mother has done everything in her power to manipulate the situation.
She is the only one responsible for the girls fearing going back to Italy.
http://www.familycourt.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebfea10252d83a3/2012_FamCA_839.pdf
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Thankyou for posting this. Disgraceful conduct on the part of the mother and her family. Manipulative, disgraceful, shameful conduct. Those poor children will grow up and realise they were just pawns in a game, and manipulated into fearing their father and being ‘loyal’ to their mother, despite having lived their whole lives in Italy! (apart from when they were kidnapped). This clarifies my views on the matter, and my faith in the reason of the court system in Australia.
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Dear All
Two things
Don’t believe everything you read in the paper
and
The family court is a judicial system set up to protect children, they have independent lawyers involved, they access clinical psychologists – they in actual fact have a lot of hesitancy in taking children of any age away from any parent unless it is necessary – and these children in fact have not been taken away from their mother they have just been returned to the place in which they reside
Joe Hockey said on sunrise when this whole debate started that he was upset with the mother for using the media to keep her children in australia and that the necessary steps should be taken in the courts to have this resolved.
They were – the children were returned – now she has to apply to whichever court it is here or in italy to see her children or who knows in italy she may have visitation rights which have not been absolved – we will not know the full story because the courts cannot divulge all the information – the media is not accurate in relating events and decisions as they do not have all the information.
Sometimes it takes a long time but the family court is there to resolved any dispute and they do at all times act in the best interest of the CHILDREN – they often do not care about the parents feelings at all – these girls may be upset but for whatever reason at this time they need to be in their fathers care.
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I agree with the father. Australian’s should calm down…..and respect the law.
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I also agree!
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I think many people have forgotten that the Australian Government actually assisted the mother so she and the children could leave Italy. The Australian embassy in Italy, issued new passports for the family so they could leave Italy.This information was published in all newspapers a few days ago. There ia now a Government enquiry to establish why the Australian Embassy issued passports and gave the mother tickets and money to come to Australia. The Australian Government knew it was not just for a holiday.
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This issue was actually addressed in the judgment back in 2011.
“I have read through the hundreds of pages of the DFAT documents put into evidence by the mother and have found nothing that supports a finding that any Australian Government official somehow knowingly assisted the mother to do something that was wrong. On the contrary, the documents support a finding that Australian Government officials repeatedly made it clear to the mother that a permanent return to Australia which involved relocation of the four girls to Australia would only be able to be achieved with the informed consent of the father. The documents also record that the mother assured the same Australian Government officials when she obtained the father’s signature on the girls’ four passport applications that she had gained the relevant consent. Indeed, not even the assistance of Embassy officials in helping the mother and girls to change their flights out of Rome Airport, from those that the father had been informed about to a different flight, is evidence that Australian Government officials were somehow involved in a conspiracy with the mother to do the wrong thing by the father.”
The court found that the father had not, in fact, consented and that she knew that when making contrary assurances to DFAT.
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Well maybe the mother shouldn’t of put them in such a “disgusting” position in the first place
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Maybe not, but for the father to forceably remove the children and push this case thru the courts knowing it is extremely distressing to his children clearly shows its not the children’s best interest he has in this case. Its his ownership rights. A loving father would never force his child to do something that was so detrimental to their well-being.
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We know so little detail about this case. If the roles were reversed (ie, the father took the children to Italy and didn’t return them to mum) people would be up in arms! This mother STOLE her children from their father. Who knows what she has told them about him that has made them so keen to stay here? How dare we make any judgement on the father’s actions without knowing the full story. Fathers love their children every bit as much as mums. Let’s not forget that.
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Melbmum, can I urge you to read the court judgement.
When the father started proceedings 2 years ago, all girls wanted to go back to Italy. it has only been after interfering by maternal relatives that they have changed over the past 2 years. Basically the maternal family have told the girls things such as, the mother will arrested if she goes to Italy etc that is why the girls now fear it.
Why should a father be denied his rights because the mother broke the law and abducted them and then spent two years brainwashing them to fear their father and the only country they had ever known?
Please read this, I am sure you will change your mind
http://www.familycourt.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebfea10252d83a3/2012_FamCA_839.pdf
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I’m surprised that a loving mother would also act in a way that is obviously so detrimental to her children. Is it really in the best interest of those children to be surrounded by such hysteria when it was obvious that the law was going to be enforced? Surely it was in the best interests of the children to be lovingly reassured that they would be OK and if she really thought they weren’t surely she would have flown there with them (I have also read that the father offered to pay her airfare to fly with the girls) and would be doing her best in Italy to retain contact with them given that they were always going to be returned there. Everything I have read about the father makes him sound like a reasonable man. The courts who have more information than we do have also obviously made this decision. One of the hardest things as a mother is to put on a brave face when you are fearful of a situation or you are hurting for your children but I think most people agree putting your children’s feelings and trying to protect them from such hysterical scenes is what most parents would try to do.
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No way. I’m with Dad on this. If anyone was warped enough to come between me and my kids, to interfere with my relationship with them, so manipulate their memory of me… I would move heaven and earth to remove my kids from the care of someone that twisted. Even at short term detriment to the girls. She is dangerous to those girls.
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One option could be for the parents to have six months custody of each year in both Australia and Italy. It’s not the best solution but it is fairer than what’s happened so far, the girls would be bi-lingual and have the benefit of keeping in touch with their Australian friends . When they reach majority age, each one of them can make the decision where they want to be permanently. Since their mother is as much entitled as the father to pursue her chosen career path, she is better off here, apart from her other objections.
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That is the most unfortunate distortion of Grans face! Take away the emotion of the situation and examine the law and its clear the girls needed to be returned, the mother by law kidnapped them and as a country that is signatory to The Hague convention Australia is required to return children to countries that are also signatories. This is to prevent international kidnapping and situations like this. We have heard one side to the story and it does not sit well with me that the mother was given the airfare to fly with the girls and guaranteed immunity from prosecution but choose to remain in Australia. Me I would have flown with my children to help ease their trauma. Children don’t often know what is in their best interests this is why we have a legal system.
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All the emotional rhetoric used in reports about this (including this one) only sways the public’s sympathy toward the mother.
“It was a distressing scene”, and “the mother clung an AFP vehicle” are just two examples of reporting which portray the mother as a victim.
Are we forgetting that she was actually in the wrong? That she technically abducted the girls on the other side of the world? And surely the mother in this story has made matters worse for the girls, screaming and crying and not acting her age. If she had have responded calmly, or even escorted the girls to Italy herself, they would not have been so distressed.
The same thing happened to some relatives of mine, and the father has now taken up permanent residency in the European country his children are living in to save the painful international custody battle.
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What I cannot fathom is that the father pushed this case thru the courts knowing that the children were in great distress and did not want to be with him. What sort of father would force their children to endure something so painful? That’s not what a loving father would do. He is doing this to gain his ownership rights!! This is in no way conducive to the rights of the children. They weren’t distressed to leave him in the first place so common sense would tell you that going back to him is not in the children’s best interest.
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please read the court docs.
i promise you will change your mind about who is in the wrong
http://www.familycourt.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebfea10252d83a3/2012_FamCA_839.pdf
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I am a little disappointed in a lot of posts I have read so far and disappointed that so many Australians seem to have distorted the facts and filled their comments with things that where never reported.
This happened to me when I was a child and after so many yrs of listening to my mothers brainwashing I thought I hated my dad I thought he was evil. As an adult I know she lied she stole a healthy childhood relationship that I should have had with my dad she had no right. At one point the Australian gov helped her believing her stories without seeing one scrap of evidence even though she kept changing her story.
These girls deserve both parents and we will never know the full story. No parent has a right to take a child away from another parent. Any parent that thinks their child needs them more is selfish. This is being said from a person that has lived this life. These girls ate traumatised yes but I beg you all to read the full report there is proof the mothers family told them negative things about their dad, they are just confused little girls not sure which way to go.
So I am asking you all to stop speculating, distorting the facts and making up things that never happened it helps no one.
By the way I watched the fathers full interview he stated that the girls could live elsewhere even foster care until they where able to trust him again, he has also stated he will not stop the mother seeing them in Italy. Whilst I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors I see a father trying to put his family back together a father trying to heal his children.
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Actually, justice Forrest did find that the family had negatively influenced the children.
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Which is what I wrote “mothers family said negative things about dad”
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Even if the mother has influenced the children against their father, what parent would be comfortable knowing that their children would have to be dragged away kicking and screaming by police to live with them. And as for the fathers lawyer having the nerve to say ‘it has been a long battle for the father’, absolutely disgusting!!
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Why is it disgusting to say that???
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Exactly Anonymous! it’s as if these kids are just possessions with no voice of their own.
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A parent who had his children kidnapped and faced the rest of his life apart from them, a parent who loves his children, a parent who is afraid for their welfare. Or a vicious evil man…..BUT. You don’t know which! That’s why we have family courts, court orders, court agreements, permanent residency orders etc
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If it were the other way around and it was the father who took the kids out of the country and away from the mother for two years would all these comments be the same….such as if the mother really loved them she would leave them with the father. I don’t think so. Why shouldn’t he be able to fight for the right to be in his daughters lives and have them know that he would move heaven and earth for them.
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Agreed there is a gender bias in this story
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So now the father has two rage filled teenage daughters who are hell bent on getting away from him. He was quoted as saying this morning that he was “Destroyed by their anger towards him” No shit Sherlock! My fear for these girls is that if they do not have any say or control over their lives that they will start controlling what they can put into their mouths – food.
These girls are at real risk of either an eating disorder, depression, self harming etc. The whole thing is just so distressing, if they’re put into foster care even more so. They must feel so powerless and miserable.
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If the mother hadn’t taken the children illegally none of this would have happened. I’m just do sick of people defending a woman who has committed a criminal act and attacking the father, police and the courts for doing nothing more than upholding the law.
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exactly, imagine if roles were reversed. Anyone that says there is not a massive anti dad gender bias in family disputes need only refer back to this case, and how, despite the facts, the mother still comes out of all of this looking like the victim, with no charges laid against her as a result.
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Absolutely correct !
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I wouldn’t want my four children staying with their mum when their maternal grandmother threatened to murder the children if a meeting with the authorities didn’t go well, and would encourage the mum to kill herself.
Yes, very stable family. Can’t imagine why dad was anxious to get the girls back…
(For those wondering where I got my info, I’m one of the few people who, in forming my opinion on this case, read every judgment)
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I thought the role of the family court was to protect the interests of the the child, which in this case are so obviously served by dragging them kicking and screaming to a foreign country then threaten them with foster care.
Love your work .. Family court
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We are signatory to The Hague convention and as such have agreed to return kidnapped children to their own countries. The issue IS MOTHER didn’t use the courts in the first place! She requested a holiday then refused to return them. Her and her family where found by the courts to have negatively spoken to the children about their father….. What sort of mother does that?
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How is it a foreign country?
The girls were born in Italy and up until the point their mother broke the law and kidnapped them it was the only place they ever knew as home.
The were happy and doing well in school and more than one of them was at a national level in sport.
The mother did the wrong thing here. not the father and not the girls
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Something is askew with this whole situation. I just hope those girls are safe, emotionally & physically.
It is starting to look like the mothers fears were correct all along. The Australian embassy that originally helped her & the girls escape Italy must be beside themselves wondering how something could backflip so tragically.
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The Australian embassy didn’t help them escape Italy. She took them to Australia on holiday with the fathers permission them refused to return home. The Australian gov here helped her stay as long as they did because she told them he was a violent man. When she failed to prove this they backed off.
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Incorrect. The Australian embassy in Rome did help her:
http://www.news.com.au/national/rome-embassy-helped-girls-flee-to-australia/story-fncynjr2-1226488525352
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No they issued her passports that is all believing she had the full fathers signatory to move to Australia permanently, see comments above. Once in Australia she told the gov and the media he was violent. Iv read all the judges reports not just the media related ones
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I am curious as to what the father has actually done for all four of his children to be so desperate not to return to him (and why their mother divorced him). Something is missing in this – what has this guy done? Was he violent? Cruel in some way? If so, why didn’t the children say so? There seems to be so much drama surrounding this case with little information as to what has caused it in the first place?
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2 years of indoctrination by the mother and her family? According to the court documents the grandmother was happy to tell her grandchildren how all italian men are evil in front of police officers. Imagine what she was saying to them about their father in private.
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I have just heard the father has threatened to place the girls in foster care if they don’t settle down. Who says things like that to children!!!!
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I just read the father is blaming the slow moving judicial system for the girls distress. How about blaming his ex wife for starting it and blaming himself for dragging it on and antagonising the girls by making them return against their will. He could have allowed them to stay and have it settled peacefully. But obviously he didnt want to compromise.
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What sort of “compromise” is there when your children are stolen from you, I wonder? The way people talk about the father needing to think of the girls best interests and just let things be…amazes me. Don’t get me wrong – this whole situation is insane. But It HAD to be fought out in the Italian courts. It’s none of Australia’s business.
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I think he’s already compromising quite a bit by agreeing not to ask for the Italian authorities to prosecute his ex and not to oppose her having access.
Its placing quite a bit of trust in someone to allow them to have access to your children once they’ve already kidnapped them once (and the mother may decide not to flee to australia, but hide in Europe instead where there are few border controls).
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In this situation I wonder why the girls could not have stayed in Australia, and had regular court ordered skype and phone contact with their dad and spend every school holidays with him?
Unfortunately in so many cases the ‘rights of the child’ aren’t always considered. I was forced to wean my 1yo by a magistrate, because the father demanded it in an Affidavit. The needs of our child didn’t even come into it.
At no time have I ever prevented my children from seeing or talking with their dad. Unfortunately the same isn’t reciprocated to me. When he has them all contact with me is restricted, even though contact is stipulated in our Orders.
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Because if people know that Australian courts are going to reward parents who kidnap their children with custody then we’ll end up with a lot more cases. And when an Australian parent kidnaps their children and takes them home to another country why should the foreign courts order their return when Australian courts refuse to do the same for children kidnapped from their jurisdiction?
The mother could have returned to Australia by herself a couple of years ago and continued contact through skype and school holidays.
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To all those that keep saying the Mother abducted the children…
and I quote: “The (quality newspaper name) can reveal that their journey to Australia in June 2010 with their mother was planned, co-ordinated and partly financed by the Commonwealth, the culmination of three years of consistent consular support…Diplomatic cables show officials from the Rome Embassy advised Canberra it was in the children’s best interests for them to take a one-way trip to Australia.”
Facts, well documented, investigated etc at the time. The Australian Government even helped the children to escape the Father by putting them on an earlier flight to Australia.
“Local consular officials even helped the mother and her children evade the father during their “RTA”, official jargon for “return to Australia”.
They secretly rescheduled the mother’s flight to an earlier one “to avoid any possible confrontations with her ex-husband”
Those steps are not taken lightly. The evidence was there.
Justice Forrest could have ruled their return without his petty (& unprofessional) personal disapproval of the Mother.
He should have paid more attention to the original reasons for fleeing to Australia in the first place and refrained from passing purely personal judgement on her character.
It seems Justice Forrest only understands the concept of possession too.
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I think it was pretty important in such a public case that the judge explain why he made the decisions he did. Not only for the public, but for the children to read and understand when they are older.
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For the children, yes. I’m not convinced the public is “owed” an explanation. Trouble is, people get hysterical over cases like this without actually knowing any of the facts.
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If you read the judge’s full findings you’ll discover they are quite detailed so people can find out a lot of the real facts if they want to. This case (because of the mother’s appeal to the media) is very public so it makes it even more important that people see how the justice system works and have confidence in it. Rather than just having an opinion based on what the media decides or is allowed to report.
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Actually in the report from the embassy she was told her daughters could only get passports with dads permission and his knowledge of a permanent stay in Australia. The embassy also stated they had no knowledge that she got her ex to sign for the passports stating she was only going on holidays and even purchased return tickets. They where unaware of this and this was used against her in court. If the embassy new she had got his signature under pretence they would not have assisted her as it went against what they where legally able to do.
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I know “we can’t know all the facts, I know “there are two sides to every story…”
It is overwhelmingly clear that those four girls do not want to live with their Father in Italy.
I can’t understand why any Father who really loved their children would go to such lengths to force the issue?
Why couldn’t he have said; I want you to live in Italy with me because I love you but I won’t force you. I don’t want to make you unhappy I just want to love you.
How could any Father review that footage of his daughters being manhandled by federal police, screaming and distressed and continue with what he is doing?
That’s not love, it is possession.
He may have won their location but he will never have their trust for the rest of his life.
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I agree with you. The mother hasnt handled this well at all and started the issue. However the father has contributed to the disaster that these girls lives have turned into. How any father who claims to love his children and want the best for them can be satisfied and victorious with their treatment, their forcible removal from their mother and their complete distress at being held captive with him locked behind gates with police guarding the property as they have tried to run away is seriously beyond me. This is simply a battle between the parents and is just another custody case where the kids have become the pawns, and what is truly best for them is obviously little priority.
If they dont settle down at their fathers home it has been threatened by Italian authorities that they will be placed in foster care. If that happens both parents should be ashamed of themselves.
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the father has now told the girls he will place them in foster care if they keep playing up. Nice. Who says that to obviously distraught kids?
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Sure the mother did the wrong thing in the first place, however it was probably what she thought was her only chance to escape from what is increasingly looking like a pretty intimidating family situation in an isolated country town.
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has he really told the girls that? or as stated in another post – has he offered that as an alternative for them until he regains their trust? if you keep reading it sounds like he is a man who is trying everything to be reasonable – wasn’t he actually wanting to share custody? In Italy – where they were born? This lady is not the first woman I have heard of who has ended up divorced and sharing custody of children in a foreign country (where they married and had the children) but the women I know do their best to make a life for themselves there and accept they dont really have an alternative if their children are to have access to both parents. These are the sacrifices we make as loving parents.
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And how about the contribution this mother made to the distress of her children by taking them from the country they were born and raised in, from family, school, friends and a promising sporting future ( one of the girls had made a national athletics team) lying to them that they were going on a holiday to Australia, bringing them here with limited English skills and then brainwashing them into believing horrible stuff about Italy and their father. She was always going to lose the case because she did not have evidence apart from her word that the father was any risk to the children, (a bad husband does not make a bad father) she did not have any evidence that the father had consented that they live in Australia, the Australian Embassy had helped her arrange passports for the girls after being very clear that the father must sign and consent for the girls to stay in Australia, she got him to sign for the passports under false pretenses telling him it was only for a holiday, the Embassy was not aware of this, the girls were not aware of this, she purchased return tickets! The judge could not find any proof whatsoever in the hundreds of pages the mother submitted to the court that the Embassy or the father knew. Instead of admitting that she was wrong, she broke laws and did not pursue the matter of relocating thru proper avenues in Italy in the first place, she has made a media circus of it all, trying to drum up public sympathy. This should have been dealt with quietly thru the courts and the girls prepared for the inevitable. She did not try to calm down her daughters, she encouraged them to play up to the media with hysterics without any regard for their psychological well being and the effect it will have on them. The father has always asked for privacy and dealt with the matter with dignity. The girls hysterical response to it all has been the mothers doing and she should be ashamed of herself, and Australians carrying on about this should be ashamed of themselves, if the shoe was on another foot and children born and raised in Australia were taken away to a foreign land from an Australian parent we would be crying foul!!
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Soooo well said! Thank you!
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I think this is so well put and how I feel about the situtation. I feel so sad for the girls and the scenes at the airport and later in Italy and unfortunately, there are no winners in this at all.
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The italian police will not confirm that they will not arrest the mother if she returns to italy.
“It said local authorities would not “ask for her arrest” should the mother return to see her children.
But a city official told The Courier Mail “it could be or it could not be” when questioned about the chances of prosecution.”
It is also reported that the mother has called the girls but the father is not allowing the daughters to talk to their mother.
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I guess we’ll find out the truth of this case when one or all of these girls reaches 18yrs of age…….but maybe that’s too long to wait.
Their fears are either fuelled by either parent or their alarming behaviour is being triggered by being in the middle of a media-driven melodrama – or – there are serious issues here and the children are not being listened to…….I wouldn’t risk sending those girls back to a place they fear – for whatever reason………..
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I guess we’ll find out the truth of this case when one or all of these girls reaches 18yrs of age…….but maybe that’s too long to wait.
Their fears are either fuelled by either parent or their alarming behaviour is being triggered by being in the middle of a media-driven melodrama – or – there are serious issues here and the children are not being listened to…….I wouldn’t risk sending those girls back to a place they fear – for whatever reason.
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This is ridiculous. The women has behaved appalling, and I don’t think much of the father either, and quite frankly, a family’s private custodial dispute has no place on our television. There are too many unanswered questions i.e. was the mother going to allow the father to share custody if he moved to Australia? or even see his daughters? What has the father ever done against the mother? All we have is her word that he is/was violent, which if true is surprising that an italian judge saw fit to allow shared custody in the first place and if untrue (and being used by the mother to bolster her case) is absolutely despicable. Other questions include What has been told to the girls in the past 2 years to terrify them so? The younger two seem upset and scared because of all the drama, I would think that if their lives in Italy were so violent in the times they saw their dad they would be as hysterical as the two older? I seriously doubt that they have been hearing an unbiased opinion. The Hague Convention is in place for a reason, you can’t just pick and choose when to invoke otherwise other parents (regardless of sex) will pay the price when their children are really abducted. Once again, the public opinion has shown Australia’s arrogant side, that when ever there is an international dispute the Australian should always win regardless of what legal side they are on. If the father was living here and took the children to Italy we would be outraged and demanding the Hague convention being adhered too; but since the mother is Australian and didn’t like the ruling of the Italian family court and subsequently broke the law for her own ends without considering anything other than her own wishes we think that she has the right to disregard it? The whole thing is obscene, and the media is just using it for its tv value. There are far more issues appropriate for public debate right now. I was going to say important, but I know people will claim I’m cold and uncaring and these four little girls are important which is true, but I don’t believe that the media attention is helping them. This family needs address its problems itself, in private, with help from professionals with everybody involved’s focus on the children’s well-being and best interests not those of the parents. The story of King Solomon comes to mind and that is very sad and disappointing.
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I agree. This has been very badly handled by all parties. There is a central issue to all of this (ie what the father has done for such a reaction) but this is their problem and it shouldn’t be aired in public like this.
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I’m sorry but the mother is in the wrong, the dad had every right to fight for his k
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I can’t get over the attitude of some people on this site who seem to think that the father has all the rights because of some custody battle, the Hague Convention etc.etc. and the rights of these girls in determining their own fate as being of no account. Now I don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of the Italian legal system, nor do I pretend to know all the details and variables at play in the relationship between the parents and the children. Some here are so busy advocating the rights of the father as the legal ‘owner’ of these sisters that the obvious have been overlooked. What rights do the girls have?
Article 54 on the Convention of the Rights of the Child to which both Australia and Italy are signatories, states ” … namely the principle of non discrimination, the best interests of the child, the right to life, survival and development, and considering the views of the child in decisions which affect them (according to their age and maturity).”
Note the last phrase on their rights to have their views considered. Some people here fail to see the sisters as people. They are young people. They have minds and hearts too. They are human beings with rights. Were the above rights applied in this case?
For all the conspiracy theorists regarding the poisoning of the girls’ minds by their mother and Australian relatives so they didn’t want to go back to their father – get a grip. Just because these people are youngsters doesn’t mean they don’t know what end is up and where they want to be and with whom.
Every story I ever saw on this subject for the last two years showed four girls who were happy to stay with their mother and unhappy about being returned to their father. Why weren’t their views considered? What happened to article 54? Why didn’t our courts honour it instead of treating the children as chattels of the parents with the father being the ‘winner’. The father could and should have come over to Australia to try and work things out with the girls and rebuild their relationship in a loving way. If the children really had been ‘poisoned’ they would have seen through it given time and patience on the father’s behalf. Instead they have been treated as belongings.
Personally I’m not concerned about whether the mother did the ‘right’ thing or not in bringing the girls to Australia and keeping them here. It doesn’t appear that they were kept against their will – although now the reverse seems to be true as witnessed by the girls being dragged away from the gates of their ‘home’ by their father, begging for help from journalists.
They should have been allowed to stay here and their views considered. The father could have easily come out here and reformed a relationship with them and perhaps persuaded them to return with him, not demand. Their happiness is what should have been most important to him – not his rights and that is the crux of the issue.
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I wonder if you’d still feel the same way if someone had taken your children to another continent, breached legal agreements & allowed a situation to develop where your own flesh and blood screamed at the thought of living with you.
This mother has behaved badly. She wanted her children to herself and to hell with the consequences for the mental health of her daughters, their relationship with their father and extended family, and probably her own psychological wellbeing. Now we have four damaged children, two distraught parents and a country full of armchair judges.
The mother has had two years with those girls. One minute the little one wants to go home to her friends and the next she’s scared to go back because it’s dangerous. Funny, considering they were born in Italy and have only lived here for 2 years after their mother turned their 4 week holiday into a two year stay ending up in an international fiasco.
What would make those children happy? Probably not to have their parents at each others throats. Probably having both parents in the same city. Feeling safe and secure.
I can’t imagine how that man feels having his little girls clinging to railings begging to be taken away from him. I can’t imagine how those girls will feel in the future as they come to terms with what’s happening right now.
The mother did the wrong thing and everyone is paying the price. She needs to go back to Italy & support her daughters. When they reach the age of consent they can decide for themselves which parent they want to live with. I have no doubt she’ll ‘win’ in the end. It’s just tragic that the price has been so high.
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I agree with you. I haven’t seen the footage of the girls screaming for help at the gate of the father’s property but I assume it is a very high gate, and locked? Otherwise they would probably run away. If so, it looks like the daughters are prisoners. What might come next? Lock them up inside the house to prevent the media from seeing what’s happening with them? I’m afraid this is taking a terrible turn and I’m concerned for the safety of these girls.
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apparently the girls have been split up . Two are staying with the father and the other two are with a relative. Something smells if you ask me.
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Or maybe the Italian family are trying to get the younger two settled & wait for the older ones to calm down a bit. Just an idea.
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the girls are trying to run away as we speak. It’s all very sad. I think the sooner they are allowed contact with their mother the better, they will never settle or forgive their father if he denies them access to her.
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From news.com.au it says it was the older 2 girls who ran screaming to the gathered media. Not surprising as it was the 2 older girls who were ordered off the plane when the pilot refused to take them because of their behaviour. Regardless though, proper contact should be facilitated between both parents. Just as it should have been when she abducted them in the first place. I hope the next update we hear reported in the media involves the mother herself getting on a plane to Italy. Not only is that what’s best for the children but now after her attempts to circumvent the legal process here in Australia didn’t work, that’s her only chance to permanently relocate with her children. Playing this out in the media didn’t work, nor will it now. And it’s absolutely not in the best interests of the children which is what this supposed to be all about, right?
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Yes, it is a high gate, now with Police guarding it. It looks like a secluded little country town, so likely nowhere for them to run away to. The mother has called apparently and the father wont let the girls talk to her.
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The Hague convention is a very complex document which has to be taken and interpreted in its entirety, not just by trying to apply parts of it. Not only that but the law works on precedent so its very foolish to assume that a judge just plucks the decision out of their hat. People really need to read the court judgement. It gives the reasoning, including the precedents and interpretation of the law which illustrates how the court came to it’s decision. Its amazing how many people rely on the media as their education.
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Firstly, the Hague Convention has not made decisions on the girls’ final custody/country of residence – it has simply forced them back to the Italian judicial system to have the matter settled there, where it legally belongs.
Presumably the rights of the girls to decide, will be considered during the coming Italian process – this was never going to be decided here, because of the protections of the Hague Convention.
The Convention on the Rights of the Child that you refer to, will be considered during the Italian court case – as you say, Italy is a signatory to this Convention.
If you honestly believe that the girls have made up their minds totally independently of their mother’s influence, and that of her Australian family, then you haven’t read Judge Forrest’s findings. Some of the examples he quotes are quite alarming. And, sadly, this is incredibly common in custody cases – do you really think children always “know which way is up” when they are being subtly influenced by their parents? Really?
Their father did come out here during the last two years. Just because he has not courted the media, as the mother has shamelessly done, does not make his positon the “wrong” one.
The mother seemingly did not try to ameliorate the girls’ hysteria when she knew the decision had been made.
She should have encouraged their own courage and resilience, which would have been in their best interests.
Oh yes, the children have certainly suffered, but misinformation is adding to this.
I wish those girls a fast and fair solution to their pain, with a total absence of point-scoring on the part of the parents.
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The kids have been seperated? 2 are now with other relatives?
Anyone seen the footage of the girls on the news this morning, they clearly do not want to be there? This is just so tragic for these girls, they are not even all together anymore.
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Unfortunately this issue has brought a lot of non-custodial dads off their usual hate boards. All I can say is if your reaction to that footage of the girls removal is that it was all a put on and justified in the course of returning them to their father then it is a good thing you don’t have custody of your kids. This particular mother was only a child herself at 16 when she became pregnant in a foreign country. To all of those bitter souls out there children of divorce aren’t ‘poisoned’ against fathers by their mothers, they make up their own minds based on what they witness of the father’s treatment of their mother before and after separation and the treatment of the children themselves after they choose to live with their mothers. The courts can force your kids to spend time with you on weekends while they are juiveniles and hey you can have them forcibly removed from their homes pending a custody hearing too but your kids will become adults and unless you respect them and their decisions and treat their mother respectfully regardless of the circumstances you will never have a relationship with them or your grandchildren.
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Yes, I agree. Treat the mother respectfully. Women and children are not the property of men. And some male judges in courts have been suspected of passing sexual value judgement on a mother if she has flowing long hair, has a décolletage low cut dress and a short skirt. To these conservative patriarchs, this represents a woman of loose morals who needs to have her children taken away from her.This kind of sexual value judgement is not applied in the same way to men’s sex lives..
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Sorry, Axelle, are you suggesting that the mother in this case has been judged in a less than respectful manner based on her clothing and hair?
And you’re right, women and children aren’t the property of men, but children aren’t the automatic property of their mothers either. I’ve read a few comments on here indicating that daughters would want to be with their mother over their father. I find this comment offensive and I’m pretty sure lots of dads would, too.
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I’m not saying that the mother necessarily “poisoned” them against their father.
I do find it strange, though, the when first interviewed by a report writer, the girls expressed no aversion to returning to him provided their mother returned to Italy, as well (in fact, the youngest child expressed that she wanted to go back to Italy, saying she missed Italy, her friends and family) but then over the course of the following year, they all started expressing a strong aversion to returning to Italy and their father (with the youngest now saying Italy was scary) despite the fact that none of the girls had had a lot of contact with their dad nor had they gone back to Italy.
What makes 4 young girls change their tune like that, if not external influence?
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Ah-Non, the article entitled “Sisters returned to Italy reunited with dad as mum weeps” at http://www.news.com.au may clarify why the daughters are confused. It reports that the mother was three times denied Legal Aid. She was forced to defend herself in court, whilst the father, by envoking the Hague anti-abduction rules was able to obtain the services of Australian Commonwealth lawyers; i.e. he got free lawyers, at Australia’s expense.she got none. Our citizen gets nothing, he,gets everything!! It then goes on to say:
“Errors in the mother’s handling of the case led to a critical declaration of an Italian witness not being presented in proper form for the court. It claimed the father at the time he signed the children’s passports was looking for work in Australia and intended to move here with the mother and children”.
It’s obvious that she has not received a full and just hearing if this Italian witness report was not included for court scrutiny. The comments of Sunshine Coast MP Alex Somlyay are in the article and they confirm what a lot of people don’t know about the way this Italian father,and our legal system, has treated this mother. Worth reading
The mother claims he was abusive and cut off her financial support
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Yeah, I’m sorry but you just ignored the substance of my comment and came back with totally irrelevant (and bias) information. I’m really confused by what you’re getting at.
I would suggest, however, that the judgments, rather than news reports, are a better source of information.
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Axelle, you’re clearly on the side of the mother and that’s fine but I think facts are more important than hearsay. There is no evidence that the father was abusive. There is no evidence that the children are at risk of danger in Italy.
We know hardly anything about the fathers point of view, but plenty about the mother and her female relatives.
The media need to back off, get away from the gates to the Italian home and leave the family to pick up the pieces of this ghastly mess. The mother should take the 8 grand the father has given her and get her arse to the airport.
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It’s certainly interesting as a man coming on this site and seeing opinions like yours expressed day by day to thunderous applause.
I suggest your prejudice labeling of non custodial fathers to not only sexist, but very upsetting if not downright rude in the least.
There are many mothers who are not perfect and do negatively affect the way their children view their fathers, to say this doesn’t happen belittles the experiences of thousands of good men who want to see their children, but face massive obstacles which your anger and attitude only seek to perpetuate for whatever reason I’m not yet sure.
It amazes me how in almost every case, when it suits them, a demographic of people laud the adaptability and resilience of children, just not when it comes to sharing custody with the father.
This short term pain these children feel will be eased, and their mother will be free to see them and in time they can maintain fruitful, loving relationships with both their parents. What a screaming child wants isn’t always whats best for them, but two parents loving them and wanting to spend time with them is a great start.
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I recently separated from my Australian husband, and I’m English. It took me about two years I’d say to work through my feelings with the help of a therapist and various other modalities BEFORE I decided to leave my husband. We have two children and when I started thinking about ending my marriage, I thought about them first and foremost, and in part this meant working out my own stuff so it didn’t come crashing down around them.
So many times I have wanted to go home. It’s hard, and I do feel for the woman here and her desire to be back in her own country. But it’s a truly selfish need. It never benefits a child to be separated from one parent. As others have said, children have an absolute right to a full and integrated relationship with both mum and dad. Kids need to be allowed to love both equally, and tragically, so often they feel torn. Divorce makes people act in primal ways, I get that, but what has happened here is a heartbreaking example of the terrible pain and anguish that is inflicted onto children when adults can’t separate their own needs from their kids’.
So, as for me, I have to stay in a country I have struggled to make my home. My parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins, school friends, uni friends, best friends, are all 12,000 miles away. I figure I have one option: make the absolute most of it. Know that things change and flow. That what I feel now I won’t feel forever. And that you get out of something (or somewhere) what you put in to it. I’ve redoubled my efforts to be happy here and to enjoy every moment with my kids and to watch them flourish with their dad, too.
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The more I read the comments in here – and I admit yours just knocked me flat on my arse because we seem to be in a similar situation – I keep coming back to something I posted myself about how if the worst thing in my life is being ‘stuck’ in Australia, then I really have it quite good, no?
More than two years of my life fighting for this, a ridiculous amount of money spent, countless tears/arguments/court hearings… and now I’m left thinking wtf am I doing? Because of this court process my ex finally established what is becoming a wonderful relationship with our son. We’re even getting along really well – considering – which is the biggest shocker of all. And yes many parts of my life would be immensely improved if we moved overseas which I believed would make me a better mother and in turn benefit our son greatly as well. But all of this started when there was no relationship between the two at all and things are quite different today. So now I’m left wondering, especially after reading your post, how taking him away from the father that he finally is getting to know is going to benefit him. And then trying to manage the logistics of it all.. surely no matter how much we try to cushion our child it will still be very difficult for him at times. He’s still young enough that I’m not sure how it would affect him if we left tomorrow but I imagine down the road it would. It would have to unless I said or did things to make him think negatively about his dad which I’d never do under any circumstances regardless of where we are.
Cripes I don’t know now. It really makes me wonder if the professional who recommended to the Court that contact be established between the two so that if we do move at least our child will hopefully recognise his father via Skype and phone calls secretly hoped this would happen to keep us here. Maybe she knew that if they did start to develop a good relationship I’d begin to question if our relocation really was in the best interest of our son. Because I can admit I’m now having major doubts. And I probably would’ve buried these feelings for quite awhile longer if it weren’t for your post belindab so I truly thank you. xo
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My partner is is the same situation. We have been togehter for 2 years, his child is 3 years old. Her mother sought a relocation order back to her country of origin. After tens of thousands of dollars and mothers repeated threats of suicide, physical attacks ( I have a VRO against her for another 2 years ) and false allegations of abuse against innocent family members she got her way and left. My partner has never missed a skype session, we send care packages every month, write letters etc. but mother has emailed saying he can do anatomically impossible things with teh Relocation Order because she is in another country and she will make all the decisions. She tells hideous lies to this little girl every day about her father not wanting her.
I have kept a journal every day since she was taken away so that one day in the future she will know that we “talked” to her every day, never stopped loving her and desperately fought to be a part of her life.
Reading your situation I hope against hope that one day this little girl will be able to have a loving and safe family again that she had here in Australia with her father again one day.
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belindab – I just want to say that I think you have an amazing attitude.
I know my ex would love to move back interstate but hasn’t because of our child. It was a big fear of mine when we first separated that she would just up and leave without permission (and according to lawyers I spoke to at the time it can be very expensive and time consuming to reverse such a situation). No doubt she would be much happier as she could be with friends and family she grew up with, but I know I would be much unhappier if I moved to a place where I knew no one and had no family. And I would have to move if a court allowed her to move back with our child. There’s no way I would want my child to grow up without regular contact with me – and no, a regular skype call is not the same thing.
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Ok, so my question is, why did their father have custody of them in Italy? Surely thats unusual..
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He didn’t they both had equal shared custody which is very common these days it’s the way most courts prefer it. A lot of parents also make the choice to have shared custody to keep it out of court all together. Which really is as it should be.
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Its probably the best and most amicable solution for the parents, but I know children who live this life and its very difficult for them. They have 2 homes, 2 everything. They have to pack up and move their things each week, constantly moving and shuffling their lives around. They never have the correct uniforms as things get left behind and homework and assignments are always left at the wrong house. Its not always ideal for the children at all.
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I have shared custody of my daughter. Having her continuously move back and forth between two houses is a big concern to me. But then I also know there are things which I can contribute to her development that just won’t happen if I don’t spend signficant time (not just a couple of days a fortnight) with her. Its not that my ex is bad, its just that we bring different things to her upbringing – there’s things that my ex contributes better to my daughter’s development than I do.
Its not an ideal circumstance, but then neither is a situation where a child misses out on spending significant time with one parent.
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After watching the news tonight and hearing that the girls havent even attempted to contact their mother since arriving 24 hours ago, after such a traumatic departure, it does make me question both parents motives in this whole drama. It appears to me to simply be a powerplay between mum and dad, to be won at any cost. Looks like dad has won.
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I don’t think there are any winners in this situation.
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How sad to hear that 2 of the girls are with their father, and the other 2 have been sent to stay with other relatives. Makes a mockery of what just happened.
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As the mother of 3 children with a father from a Hague signatory country this scenario has been in my mind from the time my first child was born (in His country), more than 10 years ago. These laws are there to protect international families such as ours and as horrifying as it sounds for the mother – she broke the law knowingly. The father did nothing I (nor my husband), would not have done ourselves had we been in the same situation.
The children are the losers here.
And the poor police officers – imagine being the one dragging away those poor screaming children from their mother.
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I sincerely hope that the mother’s reckless actions have not irreparably damaged the father-child relationship, as well as the girls’ emotional wellbeing. I trust that soon enough the girls will gain a better understanding of the situation and why, as hard its been for them to be separated from their mother, the father had done nothing wrong by wanting them to returned to their country of origin.
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I agree with all the commenters below in supporting the Judge’s ruling. There was no other option and the emotional manipulation that the mother has used on these children is cruel. I’ve just read in the Sydney Morning Herald that the mother and her family intend taking action against the Australian Federal Police for the way they forced the girls onto the plane. I feel great sympathy for the police who had to carry this horrible task out. The family made it impossible for the girls to be returned without terrible drama and the poor police officers now have to share in the emotional outfall.
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Will the mother have the courage to fight for her daughters in an Italian court and go through the correct legal proccess this time, the way the father has? or will she just focus on suing the AFP for doing the job and upholding the law?
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Did the father actually abuse the mother? Or was it made up?
If he did abuse the mother, then I understand. But if not, then, she did do the wrong thing.
But, in all seriousness, if the girls are that distressed, then surely, they should have a say???
If the father loves them that much, he would allow them to stay in Australia or allow them to return.
I know mothers who love their children so so so much, that when the child desperatly wanted to be with dad, the adoring moher chose NOT to take it persoanlly and allow that chid to be with his dad. That is what true love is.
So, regardless of her wrong doings, if the father truly loved his children, he would want them to be happy. End of story.
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What child would not say that they want to stay with a parent that they have been with exculsively for 2 years? Even if that parent is not in the childs best interests. Ask them in another 2 years and see if the answer changes. I think they will come to realise how their mum has maniplated everyone around her, on top of breaking the law.
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I seriously doubt that the girls would want to stay with their dad. But, you could be right. I am would rather they do not have to spend another 2 years getting used to their dad. Thats another 2 years.
Anyway, was the mother lying about the abuse? I am not sure what the outcome was?
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Why wouldn’t they prefer to stay in Italy? They are Italian, and up until their mother removed them it was the only home they ever knew. They grew up there. I’d bet they are having quite warm feelings right now, being back home where everything must be so familiar. We aren’t talking about an infant who would have limited memories of being born in Italy. Thesse kids have spent the bulk of their childhood and for some part of their teenagehood there. Italian is their first language.
I hope the mother (who I believe has been incredibly selfish in all this) can come to her senses and do what is in the best interests of their children.
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Um did you watch those horryfying scenes?
Anyway, they may or may not be happy right now. But it is clear to me by watching those scences where those children wanted to be.
I think MOST girls would want to be with their mum ( unless their are some serious issues) in their teens!
I know my heart would have gone to my mum. As much as I loved my dad, there is more warmth towards mum…. I know many others feel more warmth towards mum too. I am sure there are people who dont, but from my experience, that is how it is.
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This happened to me as a child I wanted to be with my dad, my mother took me away and for 7 yrs I heard how abusive and aweful my dad was until I believed the only parent I had access to and no longer wanted to see my dad either. As an adult I found my mother had lied yes I had been brain washed. The mother could not prove he abused her or the children, an abusive parent would not allow his children to go on holidays to another country this father did. He was able to show happy photos with his kids prior. Also therapists had proved that the children had been influenceda great deal by the mothers family.
The mother has been caught out lieing several times.
Also this morning on the news it was reported the judge ordered the father to give the mother 8k to go to Italy. He has also in a press conferancw stated he will not prevent the children having access to their children. She has yet to go to Italy.
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But would those mothers agree to having their children living on the other side of the world with a family who would go to such extreme lengths to avoid following the law and who stop at nothing to publicly crucify their character?
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The children and their mother lived in Italy until she took them back to Australia two years ago. It is her choice not to return to Italy and now live on the other side of the world to them.
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I agree with you on all points. The Australian government should have stepped in to get a deal in writing that the wife would be protected from prosecution from the Italian courts so that she could have returned with absolute certainty about her safety. The Australian judge’s so called “promise” extracted from the father not to prosecute her holds no legal weight in an Italian court, so she is at risk of arrest. This is the reason she has given for not going back with her daughters, and her fears are justified. One has to ask why didn’t the Australian government ensure her safety from prosecution? It is not in the daughters’ interests to have their mother jailed.
The girls need their mother, and their demonstrated feelings confirm how this forced removal has done massive damage.The wife did not try to stop his access when he visited Australia, and there is not any cited instance of her speaking badly of the father. I will be interested to see what the father does from now on in the courts in regard to his responsibilities towards the daughters and their mother. One has to ask whether the mother was abused emotionally and/or physically, and whether she had no demonstrable proof to provide the court, which is often the case in domestic violence cases.
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They need their mother. Right, so that need doesnt extend to a dad?
I am assuming that you still havent read the judgement yet, still havent come to terms with the truth? Or are you just totally unable to come to terms with the fact that dads have as much rights as mums, and you cant just run off with your kids, hide away for 2 years and then expect that the world will just accept your actions as a result.
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Let me set you straight. My son and partner separated and both he and I and my family supported the mother of my grandson to keep custody of him. It has been our firm belief that the child needs daily contact with its mother, and my son went out of his way; i.e. travelled long distances regularly to maintain contact, even paying the mother’s accommodation to help her and maintain good relations with her for the sake of the child. This has proved to have been the right thing to do. It has ensured continuing good relations with the mother’s family and has resulted in no conflict.
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Axelle, you guys rock!!!!
I think this whole shared custody where children liove one week with mum and one with with dad is DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We do this claiming it is teh fair thing to do. Bullocks! Imagine living out of a suitcase, and leading 2 separate lives! As adults it will unsettle us. What about the children.
My ex has not fought custody too. My boy is with me and because my ex lets him stay with me, I let him see him whenever he wants. He can see him everyday, once a week, once a fortnight. In fact, when I am needing childcare, I get his dad to look after him, not my own family who adore my son.
The child should be with one person who they are more attached to. Making children lead 2 lives is not fair.
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I completely agree. I was a teacher for many years and taught children who were always confused about whether they were going to “Mum’s house” or “Dad’s house”. They don’t have a home to call their own. Special belongings would go missing assumed to be at the other parents house… these poor children had no sense of belonging.
When there are two loving parents I think it is important that they are both in the children’s lives but equal time with each parent is often not in the best interests of the child.
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Thanks, Anonymous! Yes, it’s really worked for all of us. Because my son didn’t behave like this Italian father, my grandson’s mother’s family gained trust in us, and are now emotionally close and caring. We all share and my grandson goes freely between families, with no bitterness. My son has taken him for an overseas trip with no problems whatsoever.
My grandson’s mother went out of her way and came thousands of miles to visit me with my grandson, and stayed with me,. because I have been supportive of them both,
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Would you all still be so supportive of her though if she alone decided one day that your grandson is better off without out your son and you in his life? If she decided to run off to another country with him and make unproven accusations to the court and public that your son is a violent and abusive man to her and his son so she could keep you all from continuing to have a meaningful relationship? I would think anyone who has any sort of shared custody of children in this country would be relieved at the courts-decision here. I for one would hate to send my kids off for a visit with their dad and continually wonder if I’ll ever see them again because Australian courts set a precedent by not meeting it’s obligations under the Hague convention.
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well, I look forward to a time in the future when the reverse happens, and you go into bat for a dad that steals his sons away from Australia back to say the middle east for 2 years. I look forward to you putting your same arguments to the mum left here in Australia.
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From an adult that experienced this kind of child hood your children will not thank you for the limited relationship they have with their father especially when as adults they ask you ” why couldn’t we have you both equally” dads miss out so Bradley and its disgustingfor any mother to think a child needs them more. I’m a supporter of shared custody and equal rights for fathers because I lived the alternativeand for that I missed out on somethingthat my mother can never give back to me
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Axelle – Just because that worked well for your son and his ex, doesn’t mean its a good solution for everyone.
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I was absolutely sickened by the treatment of these girls. NO ONE has a right to treat a child (or an adult, for that matter) like that. What made it worse was the fact that they didn’t even go over together – so the two youngest girls would have woken up on a flight to Italy without their big sisters. Oh yeah, because that’s not terrifying or anything.
I understand that the Australian court could only do so much, as the custody arrangements were made under Italian law and so our High Court couldn’t really change that/intervene. But my god, there needs to be a medium somewhere. Oh and the media shit-storm that went with it probably didn’t help the girls’ one damn bit.
Obviously I don’t know the full story behind all of this – none of us do. But what upsets me is the fact that because these two parents can’t act like civil adults towards one another, their daughters are suffering and will probably have to deal with the repercussions from it for most of their lives. I don’t care what your problems with each other are, but you deal with it with as little affects on your children as possible. Why should these girls have to be exposed to all of this? That’s what I want to know. It’s not fair. They did nothing to deserve this. My only hope is that they end up safe, happy, loved and together.
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Just because a custody dispute turns nasty you cant assume its both parents fault. often it’s a case of one wants what is best for the kids while the other just wants what is best for themselves. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out here who the mother was putting first.
As for the father, he clearly wanted to remain a part of their lives ( as he should and in the way they had both agreed). Nobody should ever be condemned for fighting for the right to continue to be a part of their child’s life.
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Exactly, one parent may want what’s best for the kids while the other is thinking purely about themselves, thus, the ugliness of the custody battle begins with the parents’ conflicting ideals. What I meant was, if the parents have issues with each other (which in this case they obviously do) they shouldn’t involve the kids, or try to avoid it as much as possible. EVEN if one (or both) have their best interests at heart.
I’ve been dragged through a custody battle, but my parents still tried to shelter my brother and I from it as much as possible. It was an ugly divorce, but again, we were extracted from that as much as we could have been – now my parents get along fine, and I hold no grudges or ill feelings toward either one. I very much respect the fact that, while at the time is sucked being palmed off to other people’s houses time after time, they didn’t involve us until it was resolved.
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There are TWO sides to this story and the media in Australia would do very well to remember this fact!
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The question is why were they treated like criminals? I read in the court orders, as posted earlier, an authority was nominated for their safe return to Italy..this authority clearly failed them. At the end of the day it’s a family who just want to be together..Why were they treated like criminals?
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They were not treated like criminals. They were treated like teen and preteen children acting like pork chops, revved up by third parties, that physically refused what was required of them. I’ve done the same with my kids on odd occasions when they felt it was their right to stay up past bedtime. Defy authority and authority will assert itself.
Yes, it is a family that just wants to be together and the mother chose to make her family in Italy. If she wants them to live in Australia, then she goes through the court process of that country like a normal person. She knew she wouldn’t get her way (win) so she abducted the kids. It’s never in children’s best interests when one parent wants to “win”, they are always damaged.
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Yes, I noticed that too. The authority assigned to their care was surely aware of the girls state of mind and likely reaction. Why couldn’t the mother and the girls be given some time apart and a talking to separately, in order to get everyone into a calmer state of mind before the girls left for Italy? They all would’ve benefited from a good amount of support and not be left to their own devices, which clearly created a highly stressesful situation for all involved, instead of saying their goodbyes in a calm, private manner.
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Perhaps because they were concerned the mother was going to make the situation worse and increase the distress of her children to encourage all of them them to physically resist as much as they could? The mother has had a long time to prepare her children to return to Italy. The result of the court case was never really in doubt.
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When my ex threatened to not return our child from an agreed trip interstate to see family no one was interested in helping me…
My child however, has never forgotten what happened and when footage was shown she burst into tears. 8 years have not dimmed her memories…
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Im sorry for your daughter, and I’m sorry no one was interested in helping you. It is NEVER ok for a parent to take their child/ren away from the other parent. A child needs both their mother and father (where possible of course) to be a regular part of their life. I cannot stand it when one parent thinks they have more right to the child than the other.
Out of interest, are you the mother or father of the child? I ask because generally there is less interest in cases where the mother is the abductor as opposed to the father, so out of interest am curious.
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I am the mum. He lied to the Family Court Magistrate and told him that I had “mis-interpreted or mis-heard what he (the father) had said on the phone.
Um, not too many ways to misinterpret or mis-hear someone yelling down the phone: “F- – - you b!tch, we’re not coming back!” before hanging up…
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Yes hard to misinterpret that statement! I’m so sorry you got no support, that is appalling. I am glad your daughter was returned to you as you are clearly the more stable parent… Obstructing parental contact is never ok (unless reasons such as abuse etc exist of course).
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The way the Australian media has covered this case is disgraceful and one-sided to say the least. I was appalled to see the footage of the girls being dragged away (back to the country they were illegally removed from, in the first place) BECAUSE it was played out in the national news. Surely having cameras in their face didn’t help the girl’s traumatic situation! I was outraged firstly at the press, secondly at the mother for allowing a private family matter to become a media circus for the sake of gaining public sympathy, in the hope it would help her case. Well, in the end it didn’t help her case or her daughters’ one bit but simply made their distress and humiliation a public spectacle, while the media vultures surely congratulated themselves on their high ratings. I also found it hard to comprehend how a parent can be so emotionally immature and self-centered not to comfort and reassure her children at a time they needed it most.
Admittedly, when this case first became public, I hoped the girls could remain in Australia where they now attended school and were making friends. There was mention in some reports that the father had been abusive to their mother and naturally, as a mother, I feel for someone fleeing a situation like that and starting a new life away from the abuser. I even “admired” her for having the courage to do what’s right for her and her girls. It just goes to show how quickly assumptions are made when we don’t have all the facts. This document http://www.familycourt.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebfea10252d83a3/2012_FamCA_839.pdf
is the official ruling from the Family court of Australia. It spells out the case in black and white and it is an interesting read. It describes how the mother and her relatives have gone to great lengths, not only to purposely disregard the law, but also to manipulate the girls against their own father, who, by the way, hasn’t been in any way proven to be violent or abusive. It goes to show there’s a lot more to the story than the sensationalised story the media likes to spoon-feed the general public. The court really made the right decision, there’s no doubt about that.
My heart goes out to those four girls who have been though a lot in their young lives. I believe children are resilient and adaptable and can only hope their father in as more stable and positive influence on them than their mother. I hope they get the support they need and deserve and that their mother will find the strength to join them in Italy, as hard as it surely will be for her, so her children can continue to be part of her life also.
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Agree 100%. I just wonder, because this was such a high profile case, whether greater consideration was given the accusations of abuse, therefore allowing them to be proven false. I fear that the same accusations made in a domestic case would not be given the same investigation, and the mum making the claims will almost always be believed. This shows that claims of abuse can and do get used as a weapon in family court disputes, and that women do not always tell the whole truth, to their end gain in many cases. At least this time the truth was allowed to come out.
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Thanks for the link to the judgement. I think everyone should read it it full. I was going to write a comment about the incredibly unfair biased and sensationalist escuse for ‘media’ that we have in this country but I see many of the other contributers have covered that. I think this ‘story’ needs to disappear from the headlines for a while and let the girls, their father, their mother and the respective extended families on both sides work a way forward. Australian journos looking for headilines are not helpful at this point. My only other comment was, having read the judgement, that the mother has indeed broken the law and as such, I hope I will not be seeing her ‘benefit from the proceeds of her crime’ by writting a book or seeling her side to a magazine.
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I think the important thing for everyone to remember is that the mother has CHOSEN not to return to Italy with her children. They must also remember that scenes depicted in the news of the children being forcibly removed is a direct result of them being completely aware that their mother has no intention of following them. They have stated they are happy to return to Italy is their mother goes with them, however, she refuses. While I realise this is a hard situation for the mother no doubt, I do struggle to understand how you can watch your children go through that and not sit them down prior and say don’t worry it will be fine, dad will look after you and as soon as I am able I wlll be there with you. Maybe if their mother had offered them the reassurance she really had an obligation to give then the deportation may have been far less dramatic. Everyone also needs to remember that the media attention involving with this case is due to the mother and her family bringing it to public attention. The mothers aunt has stated to the media that she cannot return to Italy as she has no money to get there and nowhere to stay. She has also stated that her ex husband and his family have poisoned her name in the village so she has no support. It is stated in the court documents that the father was ordered to provide $8,000 to the mother for travel and living expenses to help her relocate, and according to the courts this money has been made available to her. And as for poisoning her name, I don’t think he needed to do too much as she has done a good job of that herself. In general, most communities would turn against anyone who abducted her children from a country they spent their whole lives in and relocated them denying them access to their father. And people argue that they have been here for 2 years and therefore it is unfair to unsettle them, but in fact the only reason they have been here this long is because of the mothers constant appeals and of course the children going into hiding etc.
At the end of the day, the mother did the wrong thing. Now she, and sadly her children also, are paying the consequences of HER actions!
And as for the comments that father is describing the scenes of his children being returned as beautiful, well I’m sure it would be completely unlikely that the media may have not reported it correctly (yeah right) however, it is quite possible that the father is in fact making a comment that knowing his children were on a plane on their way home after 2 years is in fact a beautiful moment. I can’t say I wouldn’t think the same thought if I were him.
And finally, as a mother myself, if my husband were to do this to me – abduct my children and move back to his birth country – I sure as hell would fight to the end to get them back, just as this father has done. Sadly, because I am the mother there would unlikely be any uproar if my husband was forced to return children to me. However, because this man if the father he is seen as less of an important factor in his children’s life. I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone who believes this!
If this woman wants to do what is best for her children, she would stop thinking about what is easiest on her and follow them to Italy and make as stable a life for them as she can, having shared custody, until they can have their day in the Italian courts. She obviously felt life would be easier here because she is a full time student who supports her family 100% through Centrelink payments. I guess back in Italy she may be forced to get a job and put off her studies, but isn’t that a small price to pay for doing what is in the best interests of your children?
I think the judge got it 100% right, to have found in the mothers favour would have set a precedent that could affect hundreds of future cases of parental abduction and give way to all sorts of loop holes in the system.
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When did coercion ever work with teenagers??? Those two resentful teens are going to be giving their father hell for quite a while I reckon.
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I wonder, if the girls were dragged screaming and sobbing from the arms of the father, the “outrage” would be the same? The fact of this case is that the mother basically abducted the children.
I also wonder how the media would play this out, and where sympathies would lie, if it was the father of these girls who absconded with the children, taking them away from the mother. I suspect he would have been thrown in jail or similar.
I’ve noticed there is a double standard when it comes to custody issues. For some reason, dads are not afforded the same level of requests, and it appears to be justified more if women behave in a manner that would cause outrage if men did it.
I can’t believe the double standards. Somebody said to me that “The girls are old enough to make up their own minds where they want to be”. I asked her what should happen if the girls were being dragged away from their dad, and screaming that they wanted to stay with him, and not return to their mother? The response was “The girls would be too young to know what is best for them, and they should be with their mother”.
Double Standards.
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Wow how did you not laugh at that person? Obviously not a lot of thought put into that one. People have the attitude that the children are always better off with the mother, but when there is evidence of manipulation and influence over the children (as is the case here, stated by the judge in his reasons) then they are most definitely are not!
In saying that, I do hope the father provides some sort of counseling for his children as no doubt they have suffered a terrible trauma. Unfortunately the trauma has been made more so by the mothers refusal to follow them. I could never have my children sent to another country and not follow, regardless of the fears I have for my own financial or social well being.
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Regardless of what the mother did wrong or what the father did wrong, has anyone considered how important, how vital ”emotional and secure attachment” is for a developing child, to the primary caregiver?
The circumstances are awfully complex, but this intervention will undoubtedly affect the ability of each of these girls to form secure attachments in any relationship, platonic or romantic for the rest of their lives, after they were dragged away from their primary caregiver under such traumatic circumstances.
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They were also ‘dragged away’ from their father 2 years ago lets not forget. Or doesnt that issue count when it is a dad?
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Actually, while I agree this will affect them long term, I have to disagree with one thing. You state this “intervention” affect them, but in fact it is the mother who abducted them in the first place who has caused this. The parents had SHARED custody in Italy, she only became the primary caregiver after abducting them. She must have know this was a possibility right from the beginning, maybe she should have thought about what it would do to the children to drag them away from their father in the first place, knowing full well they will possibly be sent home at some stage in the future.
You cannot blame anyone but the mother for allowing this situation.
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For the sake of balance I think everyone needs to read this
smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/convention-binds-judges-hands-20121004-27247.html
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As the media focused on the dramatics, and the antics of the mother, and the footage of the screaming girls was playing out for sympathy, remember, that this “mother” ABDUCTED her children. As far as we know (according to the investigations) there has been no abuse (physically, sexually, financially, mentally or emotionally) by the father. Having worked in the court system for years, I loss count of the number of ex-wives and mothers who out of spite would use the system to their advantage, even blatantly encouraging their children to lie and damage the father and limit access.
Can you imagine if it were the father who abducted these girls, and had his family ‘influence’ the kids against the mother? The media, women’s groups and certain individuals would be screaming for blood.
I can only go on conversations with people involved directly with this case (police, etc), and from the experiences I had as a police officer working within domestic situations and court to say this – there should be more rights for fathers, and mothers, women, are not always the poor, hard done-by victims.
Sadly the people who will suffer the most in this case are the children.
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Are you aware that today the father went to the Italian media (after making sure that all daughters were on planes coming back to Italy) and described the forced return of his daughters as “a beautiful moment”? Is this a conciliatory remark designed to ease tension between him and the mother of his children? And that Australian consular officials admitted that in 2010 they changed the return to Australia flight details to help mother and daughters escape him? As a former police officer you should know that you need to stick to the facts.
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Axelle – you didn’t read my comment? Because I said “Sadly the people who will suffer the most in this case are the children”.
As for facts – I also said “I can only go on conversations with people involved directly with this case (police, etc)”, So yes, I’ve spoken to police involved in this particular case.
So the father is not entitled to pass comment about the relief that he’s receiving his children back? That he has the opportunity to undo some of the damage inflicted upon the kids by the mother and her extended family (who acted against the law)?
By that example, we should examine every comment made by a relieved mother if her kids are returned after an abduction by the father?
After twenty-seven years of dealing with domestic violence (attending, processing, court appearances etc), family law, court systems which are blatantly bias against fathers. I think I know what I’m talking about. But then again, I guess having tits and a womb entitles us females to be exempt from due process.
Yes, we are always the victim!!
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Your last two sentences show how you have invested in this issue. And yes, I did read your comment, contrary to what you think. I believe that those last two remarks of yours don’t add any value to the debate, It is a derogatory reference to women’s bodies that we can do without, especially given what our PM has recently had to put up with.
The fact that you have been involved with these court cases doesn’t mean that you have the last word on them.. What you say gives the impression that men are the only victims. Well, no, that’s just not true. But the point here is that this case could have been handled differently.
I suggest you read what the article in the Sydney Morning Herald has to say about the history, and psychologist Dr. Carr-Grieg’s concerns about the effect of this forced removal on the girls.
The courts do not always get the whole truth, nor do they always serve the interests of justice, as well you must know.
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Perhaps the mother should have thought about the effect her actions would have before abducting her children? They should never have been put in this position int he first place….
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True, Chris, but perhaps she really felt intimidated by his family, being away from her family over there. Who knows what power games went on?
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She may not have felt comfortable over there, may not have had any friends and struggled financially. But none of those, or even all of them combined gives her the right to unilaterally decide to kidnap her children and take them overseas.
She should have taken the issue to the courts in Italy. She may well not have been successful but there are many divorced/separated parents in similar situations. It would take quite extraordinary circumstances for a court to decide to effectively terminate meaningful contact with one parent. When you get married and have children you are for a long time subservient to the needs of the children (if you want to have a role in their life) rather than your own.
If money was tight she could have chosen to return to Australia herself to improve her job prospects and visit her children in Italy for holidays. Doesn’t sound great, but that’s exactly what she was expecting her children’s father to do when she took her children.
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I imagine it IS a beautiful moment for the father. As it would be for any parent whose children were abducted and taken overseas. He was told they were going on a vacation 2 years ago and she never returned with them. How anyone is supporting that behaviour is beyond me and I suspect if it were the father who had abducted the children some of the reactions in here would be very different. Regardless, this is what the Hague Convention is for… a parent CANNOT decide to move their children internationally without permission of the other custodial parent. You just can’t. And each of us should be grateful for that law.
Also, speaking of facts, you seem to be picking and choosing which ones you wish to focus on, ignoring vital other ones. You’ve mentioned a few times about consular assistance and said the embassy helped the mother evade the father. You’ve also said it’s been reported in today’s news that this is the case. Please provide a link as I can’t find anything even close to that.
Here’s the link I did find however:
http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/four-sisters-family-consider-taking-legal-fight-to-italy-20121003-26zsg.html
“The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade last night confirmed the Australian Embassy in Rome had provided consular assistance between 2007 and 2010 to an Australian woman and her children, all of whom resided in Italy.
“Consular officials in Canberra provided consular assistance to the woman’s family in Australia,” a DFAT spokeswoman said.
“Passports were issued with the consent of both parents.”
Notice how DFAT says the passports were issued with the permission of both parents? Just like the embassies here in Australia assist people every day with establishing citizenship and having passports issued for children even if they’ve never stepped foot in their parent’s home country. There is nothing remarkable about this nor does it even begin to imply that the embassy was trying to help the mother “escape”. It’s simply one of the main administrative functions of an embassy anywhere. I cannot have an overseas passport issued in my child’s name without the permission of his father as we both have parental rights, even if we were happily married. Trust me on this one, when things were getting quite dark there for awhile in my own situation I contacted both embassies of the relevant countries my son can claim citizenship in just to see what my options were. Unless the embassy can’t locate the father or he has passed away, I either need his signature on the passport form or we go to court. Two options. Nothing else.
And no, this had nothing to do with how much or how little money either parent has. The Government represented the father in this case because what she did broke a major international law. The mother is more than able to go to Italy and live with her children, while starting court proceedings there. The same as I’m doing at the very moment. As has been pointed out several times this was not a ruling to take the children away from their mother. It was a ruling that the case should be heard in the appropriate country. As a parent we don’t get to choose what’s most convenient for us when it comes to international relocation. Anyone who assumes they’re above that law is in for a big shock, regardless of how much they try to use their children and the media as weapons.
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I have the reference here for you: http://www.theaustralian.com.au under the headline: “Rome Embassy Helped Girls Flee To Australia”. The below quote is the part I think you are concerned about, but there is more to read if you want to go to the site:
“Diplomatic cables show officials from the Rome Embassy advised Canberra it was in the children’s best interests for them to take a one way trip to Australia…”
“They secrectly rescheduled the mother’s flight to an earlier one “to avoid any possible confrontations with her ex-husband” the documents show”.
I would be interested in your feedback on that. Best regards.
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Have a look at paragraph 50 of the 2011 judgment, where the judge writes:
I have read through the hundreds of pages of the DFAT documents put into evidence by the mother and have found nothing that supports a finding that any Australian Government official somehow knowingly assisted the mother to do something that was wrong. On the contrary, the documents support a finding that Australian Government officials repeatedly made it clear to the mother that a permanent return to Australia which involved relocation of the four girls to Australia would only be able to be achieved with the informed consent of the father. The documents also record that the mother assured the same Australian Government officials when she obtained the father’s signature on the girls’ four passport applications that she had gained the relevant consent. Indeed, not even the assistance of Embassy officials in helping the mother and girls to change their flights out of Rome Airport, from those that the father had been informed about to a different flight, is evidence that Australian Government officials were somehow involved in a conspiracy with the mother to do the wrong thing by the father.
This media “reveal” is not about new evidence – the court was presented that evidence, considered it and reached a conclusion.
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I tried to reply earlier but my post didn’t appear for some reason. Yes the Embassy did issue the passports to the children because she advised them the father agreed to let them go on the vacation. Which he did because that’s all he thought it was. They also changed the flight to one a couple of hours earlier “to avoid any possible confrontations with her ex-husband”. Again this was because she claimed to have been abused. But DFAT also stated that in 2009 she asked the father for permission to relocate permanently and he wouldn’t consent. The mother and grandmother then threatened to go to the media “prompting a ‘priority’ message from Canberra for diplomats to deal with the problem.” The embassy officials believed that the consent the mother received in 2010 was informed and genuine. It was not.
As Ah-Non pointed out, those embassy officials weren’t helping her to avoid anyone or to violate any international laws. That’s why your comments confused me. The one thing they are guilty of is believing the stories this mother spun in order to get them to issue the passports. The two embassies in Australia that I deal with interview the father directly to determine that the signature on the passport is 1. legitimate 2. he is informed as to my travel intentions as we are separated. Hopefully these poor people forced to “deal with the problem” in Rome – if they still even have a job at this point – will now work under the same guidelines in the future.
Regardless of how naive those embassy officials may have been, the mother was made aware several times by them before she left Italy that she would not be able to relocate without her father’s informed consent. This is not a case of “oh, the Embassy helped me flee, why won’t the government let the kids stay here?” It’s a case of “I tricked the officials into thinking the father knew what the passports were for but I don’t understand why I’m not allowed to violate the Hague Convention anyway?” There is zero excuse for her kidnapping those children, for what she has done to her children and for how she and her family members have tried to play both the system and the media.
The more I read about this case and after reading the judge’s findings a few times now the amount of sympathy I once had for this mother has all but disappeared. She acted criminally. And somehow was still offered $8k to return to Italy and given assurances that she wouldn’t be charged. Not sure how much more help she wants or even deserves so she can fight for the relocation legally but regardless I’m sure I’m not the only parent who is more than relieved that the court handed this situation properly.
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100% exactly what I would have replied! Actually I found the article in The Australian and there are a couple of paragraphs in that article that seems to have been overlooked by the writer who posted the link stating…
“The embassy facilitated arrangements for their travel to Australia in 2010,” a spokesman said. “Passports were issued to the children with the consent of the father.”
“Embassy officials advised the mother that a permanent relocation to Australia by the children could only be achieved with the informed consent of the father.”
Now that is the link YOU provided. Those two paragraphs alone indicate they believe the father had given his consent (which he did, for a holiday only). There is no documentation categorically stating that this woman did not abduct her children. She has played games the whole time, has produced no evidence of abuse apart from her word (which at this point does not count for much) and has manipulated her children into being fearful of going home. As well as ensuring they are aware that should they return to Italy she will not follow, that is emotional abuse at its best… There is an abuser in this situation without a doubt, but evidence points more towards the mother than the father. There are more types of abuse than just physical. And in many ways emotional abuse can be far more damaging!
I too, have little, if any, sympathy for this mother. But then I didn’t have much back when the children went into hiding. I just have practically none after reading the judges reasons, watching the appalling media circus she allowed her children to be involved in, hearing of the negative thing she has allowed her family to say in front of the children (such as he doesn’t love them) and finally allowing her children to be dragged away kicking and screaming still sticking to her guns that she will not follow them. Nope, I hope the father ends up with full custody, as much as his kids are probably hating him right now. As adults they will look back on all of this and see it as the majority of people see it and realise he did what he thought was best. A mother who can do this to her children is not fit to have sole custody!
And Beans… You sound like a great mother, and you will be rewarded in years to come as your child will see you tried to do everything right. That’s all a child can ask, for their parents to act honourably and put THEM first!
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What did you want him to say? That it was a terrible thing for his daughters to be coming home?
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Whether mother or father, the broader welfare of the children was overlooked due to each parents personal concern. I also feel that the mother may have thought that if there was enough ‘drama’, the courts and police would not have gone ahead with a ‘forceful’ handling.
There must be a lesson in here for parents who are considering divorce or are divorced, and how they can easily allow their personal wishes overshadow the good of their children.
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Did you know that the father today went to the Italian media (as soon as he knew the children were on flights back to Italy, not before) and said that the forced return of his daughters is “a beautiful moment”? And that Australian consular officials have been found to have changed the flight details of the return to Australia of mother and daughters to help them escape him? As a former policec officer, shouldn’t you know that you need to stick to facts?
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Whatever wrong doing was done…was done by the parents, so why were these children treated like criminals! These young girls are the vitims and should have been treated as such. I understand that the Australian Federal Police have a tough job to do but the way that they handled the situation was sickening. From the television footage that I have seen…the Police were much to aggressive and heavy handed, not only physically but in the way that they spoke to the girls. As a parent, this whole situation just saddens me.
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What would you have had the police do? Sedate them? Trust me, those police would have hated doing that job.
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Do you personally know all the police who were involved? I find your comment very irritating, how can you possibly claim to know how other people feel. I have friends who are cops, my sister is training to be one but I wouldn’t claim to know the thoughts of every police officer out there just because I know a few of them. Ridiculous.
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I do agree that the footage was disturbing however, the police were being kicked and yelled at while dragging the girls out. And god knows what happened inside to get them out in the first place as there were no media inside. The police are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. The public howl them down for complying with the court orders, but had they not they would have been in huge trouble with the courts possibly losing their jobs. What do you want them to do? Those girls, as sad as I feel for them, we’re quite obviously not going to go peacefully. They really had no option, and I don’t believe for a second the officers involved felt “good” about what they had to do.
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