This may well be the most important documentary you will ever see. Miss Representation is a film by Jennifer Siebel Newsom, that explores how the media’s misrepresentations of women have led to the under-representation of women in positions of power and influence.
When we first moved to Doha we stayed in a hotel. Each night when G came home from work I would escape for a run on the treadmill in the hotel gym. The gym was mostly full of men. There was the usual line up of treadmills and televisions with a constant stream of music videos. On one particular night I watched a group of men stop for a moment to look at the screens. I can’t remember who it was, maybe Britney? GaGa? Ciara? Rhianna? I was a bit distracted. I was busy trying to work out why she was wearing a see through white bikini while dancing with a snake wrapped around her legs. She appeared to be very attracted to both the stripper pole in front of her and the snake. It was completely gratuitous and out of context with the song. One of the guys said something I couldn’t hear, everyone laughed and I immediately felt uncomfortable. I felt like I’d accidently joined in on their party and their party was watching soft porn at the gym.
Is that an over reaction?
Should I be cool with watching a woman wearing a dog collar being led around the room? What’s the line between sexy and sexism? Would I point to these women and then tell my daughters “one day if you work really hard at school…”. “Keep practicing your trombone sweetheart and then we can pop you in a bikini, hose you down and see if you can earn a living”.
You can’t be what you can’t see.
I’ve been over to Miss Representation and taken the pledge.
“I pledge to use my voice to spread the message of Miss Representation and challenge the media’s limiting portrayal of women and girls.”
Kirsty Rice is an Australian writer and Blogger currently living in Qatar. You can follow her blog here
How do you feel about the way that women are portrayed in the media?
Comments
109 Comments so far
I think this is among the most vital information for me. And i am glad reading your article. But wanna remark on some general things, The web site style is perfect, the articles is really excellent : D. Good job, cheers
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I guess for me it becomes, when are we, as women going to stop buying the magazines? When are we, as women going to stop watching garbage on TV?
When are we, as women going to live up to the standards we hold for our children? I see a double standard every day, we want to be respected for our minds and not our bodies, but we spend so much time, energy and effort in fixing ourselves up, wearing the right clothes, and trying to make ourselves pretty for others to look upon. We spend the most money on diet drugs, and the next quick fat loss product. We then spend the rest of our days in cliques of other women talking about other women’s clothes and hair and makeup. Making fun of them. It is sad I am well past high school, and work for a major hospital in my region. I see women powerful in their careers play mean girls all day long, nasty behind your back and nice to your face. We don’t mentor each other in our careers, we see each other as competition, someone to defeat by any means necessary. When you can’t destroy someone professionally, we resort to personally. We have to make the choice not to give in and live by our own terms, even if that means living outside what is expected of us
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i dont know where youre getting all those images you object too but i watch tv
from the time i get up till i got to bed and i dont see the images youre objecting to much if at all during the whole time im watching tv
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I hate the notion of “oh but this is what people want,” that companies so often use to justify their marketing strategies. They are the ones controlling it, and they are the ones who would have first discovered that promoting women in a sexualised manner could pay off and keep using that formula when it did.
I hate the notion that we as consumers are demanding it. I can’t, ever in my life, ever remember thinking “oh if that chick were writhing around in barely anything, i would buy that.”
Consumers are not demanding it. We buy into it because it’s been chosen for us, under the illusion of consumer demand.
xxxmissvxxx.wordpress.com
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Hi Miss V. I can well understand the viewer/consumer frustration you must feel about this subject and hope you are aware that you have many supporters including one ally you may never have imagined. I would like to offer just a few points for your consideration.
1. Marketing is about finding out what the consumer will best respond to, how to reach that consumer, and how to convert their interest into sales. Please believe me when I tell you that (as ad agencies) we don’t care what the answer is as long as we know what the answer is.
2. We do not design this answer, we find it. It is provided to us by none other than ‘you the consumer’. If we were to base our decisions on anything other than what ‘you the consumer’ wanted, neither we (or our clients) would be in business for very long now would we??
3. So who is your greatest ally?? Ad Agencies!! Why?? Because if in place of the beautiful people we could use little old men with walking sticks we surely would. It would cost us less, require far fewer casting sessions, the little old men would be extensively easier to work with, and they wouldn’t (on behalf of themselves or their gender) suggest that they were being objectified. It’s a win,
win, win, and win situation for us … and for little old men with walking sticks.
4. Of course, we would eventually be confronted by opposition from women’s groups who would argue that beautiful women were being discriminated against in advertising because they aren’t little old men with walking sticks… and, as I am certain you would agree, the women would be 100% right!!
5. Providing that you do agree with the point above, you must then also agree that this discrimination would be taking place at the hands of little old men with walking sticks, because if these men told us that they wouldn’t do it anymore as they felt objectified, we would have to ‘consider’ the women again. Therefore, your issues lay fairly and squarely at the feet of those of your own gender who choose to take part. Did you know that we don’t force them to do it??
6. Interestingly, the women who make a career out of modelling etc do it by choice and ‘do not’ feel objectified. Why?? They WORK harder than your collective gender will ever know about to look the way they look, the work they do is MORE DIFFICULT than your collective gender could possibly imagine, and yet neither they NOR little old men with walking sticks take issue with it.
7. Obviously then, you are in a difficult position… or is it just a bit too easy from where you sit in judgement?? Ad Agencies have no choice but to either objectify women, or, discriminate against them. Rest assured, as we do, that YOU will always have a convenient argument though. Oh, and we actually discriminate against little old men with walking sticks in favour of providing those women who apply to do the job with an income… but don’t tell the little old men that!!
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I am going to be the cynical one and say that although I’d love for media to change their ways, I doubt they ever will significantly, because like JJ says, as long as people keep consuming it, businesses will keep dishing it up. The thing is, the more populated the planet becomes, the more media that will be able to sell to particular markets. There will always be an audience for trash. I think a more realistic approach is to change the way we think about media and the messages they portray. Advertisers and marketers frequently have backgrounds in psychology. The big wigs… they’re smart. But we can get educate our children to know that magazines, advertising, books, newspapers, fashion, pop culture, tv, hollywood, billboards, music, the internet…. are all designed to a) represent or target a particular audience/demographic; and b) persuade an audience to believe something or want something or feel something. I think the key is starting these conversations from an early age, because messages just become subliminal and harmful if people aren’t aware.
In terms of the representation of women. Look at Hollywood. They even use reverse psyhology They’ll often portray a brunette as beautiful, but tell me one movie where a blonde is portrayed as really plain. Few and far between. The dark haired, slightly overweight woman wearing glasses or with frizzy hair is always depicted as plain. So we still end up getting the same message that blonde is more attractive or glamourous. They’ll depict a less glamourous person as being successful or a power woman some of the time, but they’ll almost never show a very glamourous person as being unsuccessful. They’ll show a heavier person as attractive, beautiful even… but they’d still never show her in a bikini. It’s all these things that try to manipulate us. It happens in every medium. Magazines exist to make money and undoubtably make more money from advertising than from circulation. Therefore the content has to fit as much with the advertisers as the readers. For example a magazine like Cosmo could never turn completely against airbrushing photographs and publishing pictures of women in next to nothing because it needs to attract readers who are interested in buying beauty products or weight loss products or fashion… that’s where the advertising is. And advertisers are not interested in diversity. They all want YOU to want to look the same as the pictures in the magazine and go and buy their products… is this a revelation or what?
Let’s talk about this with our kids right now… to me that is the best way forward and the best way to protect them from the constant multi-media sensory overload brainwashing them! Who knows, it might even make them think twice before asking for everything they see on tv or advertised (you don’t reallllllly want McDonalds, that ad was just making you think about that succulent burger with it’s fluffy sesame seed bun by looking at up close and in slow motion and making it look so perfect it must taste delicious… but I know you’d rather some spaghetti bolognaise for dinner…). Ok no that’s wishful thinking…
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Just watched the whole thing — thank you to Shannon for posting the link — this doco is the reason why I get so fired up when I get told feminism is no longer relevant or women have got it ‘as good as men’ now, so shut up and go away. It’s the reason I get upset when friends tell me ‘I’m not a feminist’. The issues presented in Miss Representation go to the heart of what feminism is about and it’s pretty clear to me there is still a long way before women are truly on equal footing with men.
In a similar vein, I highly recommend a book by Susan J. Douglas called ‘Enlightened Sexism: The seductive message that feminism’s work is done’. This is an intelligent and engaging read that will have you thinking about how the media (mis)represents women in a number of ways and the impact that has on all women, not just young women and girls. The main point Douglas makes, however, is that because we think feminism has brought about equality between the sexes, bringing back sexist portrayals of women can be laughed off as harmless fun because no-one really buys those stereotypes anymore, so what’s the problem?
If you’re interested:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=enlightened+sexism&x=0&y=0
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Couldn’t agree more mel. I’d also suggest The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf is relevant to this topic, and it’s still very relevant today.
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But feminism is at least partly responsible for the problem. Second wave feminism pushed for the sexual revolution, the message of which was that women should be free to pursue relationships for casual sex alone, without considering marriage or even romantic love. Once you get a culture of relationships based on casual sex (helped along by the Hugh Hefners of the world), then men and women will primarily seek “hotness” above other qualities. Feminists seem to have naively believed that you could have a culture based on casual sex entirely on the terms that they wanted – predictably it hasn’t turned out that way.
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Websites like mamamia can start contributing to the positive portrayl of women by not posting a photo of a fifty year old model who’s been airbrushed to look like a 25 year old model on the cover of a womens gossip mag juxtapositioned next to teasers about the next wonder diet and declaring “I nominate this for cover of the year”.
Just saying.
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Yeah, bit strange to have this post and then in the recent comments column the starts of comments for some firming gel or something…
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Um, yeah an ad for “body shaping contour creme” which turns into an ad for discounted junk food. Unfortunate positioning guys!
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I have just finished watching the full documentary available on Youtube. I will never again buy another tabloid mag.
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has anyone watched “killing me softly” it is out in its 4th edition. i have only boys and so have spent a lot of my life explaining sexism, etc and i am proud of their handling of things.
But it is difficult for them to go against the men in their work place and the constant babble that goes on
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I know!
I was cured of buying that crap after I had children.
A bad bad example of how to talk and think about others ! P.S this was in response to Raraluna!
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Wow, that documentary looks amazing. Thanks!
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You know what I would like to see as a regular post on MM – a bio or interview with an “empowered” woman who is forging ahead in her field be it politics, business, art, fashion whatever. This kind of thing would really inspire me.
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Noted!!!
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What a fabulous idea.
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I was lining up at the checkout of our local supermarket the other day with my six yo son. The magazine rack (as always) was packed with naked (yes you Deborah Hutton) and half naked women. All of these images were all in my son’s line of vision.
It is not just women who are affected by the shallow and sexualised representation of women and girls in the media, it is our boys as well.
Women as ‘things’ to be looked at is seeping into kids’ psyches without us even realising.
Just sayin
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I totally agree, I have 2 little boys and even though my husband always jokes “thank god we didn’t have girls” in the context of the pressures, sexualisation and expectations of girls when they hit puberty (clothing is a big stand out for us!)
I always counter with how are we going to raise boys that are respectful of women and know when something is just wrong (I hope that makes sense!)
I want my boys to also understand the misrepresentation of women. I want them to be critical of images they are seeing on a daily basis.
I can’t wait to watch this doco!
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Yeah it’s so hard to know how to address it with kids. Do we draw their attention to it and then offer a critique or do we try and shield them as much as possible?
It is sad and frustrating to think that at the tender age of 6 my boy (through passive consumption of popular culture) may have the impression that semi-naked pictures of women at the supermarket is acceptable.
My partner and I are going to do our best to teach him otherwise
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Not sure if anyone else had posted the link to the full documentary, but you can watch it on youtube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=161R13Senv4
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Thanks for the link!
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Thx so much Shannon for the link.
I have just watched it and taken the pledge. I hope other mamamia readers will take the time to watch it, very powerful stuff and that mamamia will continue to support the kind of changes spoken about in this documentary.
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Lat year I removed the Austar box from my kid’s rumpus room for this exact reason. I was really concerned by the music videos, the lack of clothes and gyrating etc that goes on. I already had the parental control of M on but half of the videos were rated PG!! Also the constant showing of of Kardashians, Housewives of NJ etc etc basically just showing plastic surgery enhanced women prancing around doing nothing upset me. These are NOT role models I want for my daughter!
I agree with your gym comment. Snoop dogs “I wanna make u sweat” came on at my gym recently i was th eonly woman surrounded by men and I cringed thinking about myself lycra clad, sweating and running to this song!!
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I’m at a women only gym and there are two TVs, on the wall in front of the treadmills, that play the most revoltingly sexist film clips. When I approached a staff member about my discomfort, she was less than sympathetic and another gym goer chipped in with, “well if you don’t like it- don’t look at it!”
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I am going to be searching for this documentary – very interested in watching it.
A quote from Eleanor Roosevelt – “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent”. I agree that the way women are portrayed in the media can be mortifying and this in turn can lead to all kinds of eating disorders, body image issues, etc. However, we also are in control of our own lives. What we eat, wear, watch, listen to, etc all comes down to decisions WE have made.
I think, as a society, we need to do more to make ourselves mentally strong. We need a better sense of self and to fully appreciate our self-worth
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When the world can celebrate a woman’s sexuality, along with her intelligence, personality and all her attributes, instead of being afraid of it then we might get somewhere. We are still very much stuck in a place (in some circles) where the woman is seen as a person who should be demure, innocent, sweet and passive. In business if she is dominant and takes charge, traits that most male leaders have, she is called a bitch, if she is attractive and dresses in a way that makes her feel sexy and confident, she may not be taken seriously. Men are threatened by her so they turn her into purely a sexual object, where they perceive they can dominate and women are threatened and may call her a slut. In fact in some instances it’s not how men and the media portray women that misrepresents us the most, but sometimes it’s how women judge and represent other women that hurts us the most.
We will never have equality until we all stop judging!!
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“I pledge to use my voice to spread the message of Miss Representation and challenge the media’s limiting portrayal of women and girls.”
Including speaking out against magazines that make them feel like they’re not good enough (which is EVERY magazine aimed at women): http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/body-themed-magazine-covers/
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I pledge to use my voice to spread the message of Miss Representation and challenge the media’s limiting portrayal of women and girls.”
I agree wholly with this sentiment but….
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent” Eleanor Roosevelt. The fact that other women look good – like cover-worthy good. Gorgeous… beautiful.. Whatever… is no reason why you shouldn’t feel good about yourself if you’re not.
Personally, I love supermodels because they are such absolute freaks of nature… Weird, 6ft amazons. Or what about bizarrely symmetrical Kate Moss who has obviously never had a Lindt Chocolate because -sorry, Kate- it does “taste better than skinny feels” …
I don’t see how self-esteem can be dependent on other people looking good?
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Yes it can be offensive. If people don’t support the music, products, TV shows & etc. that portray women like this, then they will have to change their marketing/advertising strategy. Show action by using your purchase power. Every bit counts!
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‘This may well be the most important documentary you will ever see.’
Really?
I’m looking forward to seeing Miss Representation, but I hardly think a documentary about how women are portrayed in the media will be the most important documentary I’ll ever see. There are far more pressing issues affecting the world today. Try this one on for size:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN06tLRE4WE
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It is worrying that human beings are on a path of self destruction with the world population set to explode within the next 20 years (if it hasn’t already).
The global movement – The Girl Effect – see http://www.girleffect.org is all about the promotion and education of girls in developing countries. The premise is, when you educate a girl nearly every part of society prospers. Watch the video on the website if you haven’t already, its pretty frigging cool.
And this is the thing – when girls are educated, birth rates start to slow down and the age of first time mothers start to rise drastically. If we could help this happen then the world may be able to avoid major environmental catastrophes like the Amazon rainforest being wiped out.
I know we live in a world that is a whole big shade of grey but I see this as a very black and white issue – educating girls in these countries is by far the best way to slow the world population growth and help communities prosper.
As I see it, Miss Representation addresses the issues that western feminism has yet to really explore or is ready to face.
So so so much of our energy as women in the western world is consumed by how we feel about our bodies and how we look because of the incessant barrage of media portraying women within very narrow and unachievable capacity. We are forced to consume it each day even if we don’t buy the magazines or watch Video Hits or watch TV or Hollywood blockbusters. The images are everywhere and they are unavoidable. It woven in to the fabric of our day to day life.
Just imagine if we could use some of the energy we waste worrying that we don’t measure up and direct it towards something as game changing as helping the rest of the world.
So I suppose what I am ‘just saying’ is that both documentaries are just as important as each other.
If people have the time to watch both of them it is surely a win-win for everyone.
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I have now watched both of them + many, many other worthwhile documentaries on completely different topics.
To say ‘This may well be the most important documentary you will ever see’ is sensationalist crap designed to get hits. It would be impossible to say that about ANY one documentary, even an outstanding one.
While Miss Representation was interesting and I’m all for media education, I think linking the representation of women in the media with solving some of the world’s more pressing problems is an extremely long bow to draw. At best, it might be a small cog in a very big wheel.
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As a former Media Teacher – this makes my heart DANCE and SING. This is GREAT stuff.
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How do I become a media teacher?! I have a communication degree (and an advertising background), which I figure is a good start.
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OK I’m confused… I totally agree with what this doco is saying, however how can you post this this week, and yet last week applaud a naked, airbrushed Deborah Hutton on AWW?
I totally agree with the comments here today on AWW cover – http://thehoopla.com.au/buy-now-mag-editor-naked/?cpg=2
disappointed that MM didn’t see it the same way.
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Cos there is nothing wrong with naked, per se.
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I don’t think the naked was the main issue.
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What was the issue?
That she looked amazing?
That she is an editor and therefore not taking her job seriously?
I don’t get why these things “makes people feel bad about themselves…” She’s always been ridiculously, ridiculously goodlooking. I’m average. But I feel fine about myself. Issues with self-esteem are rarely just about looks….
Do you want Venus De Milo to go put a jacket on?
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There was a long discussion on that post which can’t be summarised here, but if you read some of the eleventy-million comments you’ll see that it wasn’t as simple as that.
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I read it before I commented.
I still don’t agree.
I especially don’t agree with the author’s husband’s “women beware women” quote. ( Shoulda been left behind in the 1600′s.
As if women are somewhat more back-stabbing, conniving and sabotaging than men.
Bollocks.
People beware people.
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Ah, I was referring to the original AWW post on Mamamia not the Hoopla post.
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ps… If I was on the cover of a magazine I hope that they would air-brush the heck outta me!
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I don’t know why music videos have become soft porn. I have two young daughters (2&5yrs) who love music and dancing! Beyonce and Lady Gaga are particular favourites. Sadly we have the audio only via a sound system – there’s no way mtv is suitable viewing for anyone under 15. That goes for boys too – men don’t suddenly become sexist. The education on male / female stereotypes starts as kids.
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I just read the Hoopla post and wanted to applaud.
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Me too! I think it articulated what many of us were saying on here last week….
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What a great film! This would be perfect for schools to study as a media analysis if any teachers are out there
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I actually watched the entire Documentary. I obtained a copy and sat down with my 8 year old with my finger on the pause button. It was a good thing as she had a lot of questions!! It was also great to be able to rewind sections of the film – such as tropes and stereotypes – for her. The next day we watched A league of their own, as I was quite moved by things Geena Davis had to say, and found it bizarre that I had never shown her such a strong movie. The trailer really doesnt do justice to the actual film, so I wont get on my feminist high horse here.
I will say this though. The movie is a wonderful introduction to IDEAS. It is an exploration – through an american point of view – of the representation of women in media – and possible consequences of this. It explores different avenues, talks to many different people such as Jessica Valenti (the purity myth, which you can still watch online for $4), Condoleeza Rice, Jean Kilbourne(Killing us softly, you can watch the entire lecture on youtube), and Jennifer Pozner (who wrote a book called Reality Bites Back, dissecting reality shows!). What the doco doesnt do is offer solutions – But it never set out too. So if you manage to obtain a copy, and are expecting solutions, they arent there. However, the information enabling you to read culture is there. This movie is Ms. Newsoms exploration of some very complex ideas and really shouldnt be written off as a Men Vs Women kind of thing. Because, if you read it as a blame game, and a versus game, you are completely missing the point of what is a really valuable film that is worth sitting down and watching with your daughters and sons – and then being prepared to answer questions and explain concepts – you know.. if you can obtain a copy =D
Another doco worth obtaining a copy of is Tough Guise (male representations in media! – and the dude that did tough guise chats in MissRepresentation as well).
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Great info Jess, thanks for sharing
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The only way to abolish this crap is if men and women object fiercely to it. It’s men and women who suffer, not just women.
I often think that if I was a man that I would be wondering how I am supposed to act in this world where men supposedly treat women as badly as they do on tv, in the movies, in magazines, etc. If I was a man, I would be hoping like hell that there was something better that didn’t portray me as a sex-guzzling animal who doesn’t care about women. I would *have* to object to this ugliness on behalf of men as well as women. I know my sons always feel awkward when seeing these things. So, I tell them to object.
Object. Every time, everywhere and at every opportunity. Like John James says below email the advertiser, the manufacturer, the bus company, the billboard company, the radio station, the tv station, the magazine, the newspaper, ACMA, your local council, your state member, your federal member, Kate Ellis and the Prime Minister.
It’s not hard. If you can spend five minutes on Mamamia, you can spend five minutes on your email.
Get ready to declare war! Five minutes of war, every time you feel sickened by an image of a woman or a man in the media that is just wrong.
If you do one thing this year to make the world better for yourselves, your husbands, your daughters and your sons, do this one thing. Do it loudly and persistently and with determination that change will come, even if it takes a while. It’s the constant drip of water against the stone that eventually breaks the stone up.
Store the addresses in your address book and a template letter in your documents and shout it to the world that you don’t want this crap in your world. It doesn’t have to be a long email. It only has to say “I fiercely object to the sexual objectification of women and men as sex-guzzling animals in your ad, movie, magazine, etc. I will specifically boycott your product because of this.” That’s their bottom and their top line. You aint buying their crap and you aint buying their product. So bugger off and go broke!
Get your husbands, your brothers, your sons, your fathers to do the same because they love you and value you as well as themselves. They don’t want you insulted and feeling nauseated everytime you turn on the tv, go to the movies, listen to the radio, go into a newsagency or supermarket or drive behind a bus or past a billboard. They don’t want to feel awkward and badly portrayed themselves either.
To all the men and women out there who care about themselves and each other, you deserve a better view of the world and one that makes you proud of the way you are represented in it xo
Edit: Just one more thing … since when did sex become all about power? I want the fun put back into sex before it becomes completely useless to me
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I think I love you. x
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Huzzah! Love you and all the other Emsters too! See what a joyful place MM can be! Who needs the miserable, crazy Kardashians … not us! xo
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“Edit: Just one more thing … since when did sex become all about power? I want the fun put back into sex before it becomes completely useless to me”
Amen to that!!
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Can I ask the MM editorial team about their position on where they are prepared to draw the line on the representation of women on MM?
For example, I would argue that displaying images of women who are not realistic examples of modern women should not be something we see on MM…and yet you regularly display images of women like, let’s say, the Kardashians for example…
Another example…Big Brother is coming back to TV this year…BB used to be pretty strong media fodder…if BB turns out to be a show that misrepresents people, will you refuse to run stories related to “what happened last night on BB”? Or would you continue to run BB stories in the Daily News updates because “it’s what people are talking about”…
I’m not trying to be judgemental…I’m actually interested…
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Good point, I just watched the video and felt really moved. Then as I scrolled down to read the comments, what’s the very next story?? “Must see looks”, represented by Kim Kardashian, the postergirl for being all about looks and image and very little brain (although her mother appears to have a good head for creating millions out of exploiting her children).
“Must see”? Will my life really be poorer if I don’t see these clothes, hanging of these mainly unrealistic bodies? Will it?
I like fashion and style as much as the next person (unless it’s maybe Mia or Paula Joye), and I like the style and beauty advice columns, but I’d much rather Jennifer’s doco be labelled must see than a bunch of clothes.
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Yes! I mean, are the Kardashian’s in the fashion post because they are example of interesting fashion, or because they are “famous” and attract readers?
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I actutally was wondering the same…..
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I understand what you are trying to say but I dont think we can label someone as an unrealistic women. Kim Kardashian is a women, she wears A LOT of makeup and expensive clothing but she is a women, some would say she is a nice change from most models and celebrities being short and a slight larger size and a varied ethinicity to what we always see. She is obviously no ideal stereotype but saying she isnt a realistic modern women is wrong. Every women is a realistic modern women we just need more variation.
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Yeah, not best choice of words, and possible not best example…but I think you got my gist…
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Okay, fair point. To me though, Kim is still not an aspirational ideal to me.
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Agree JJ. As much as I love MM, I get worn out by mixed messages here sometimes. I love the site and it has shown me some amazingly beautiful and uplifting photos and stories about people. I just flinch internally when the opposite sometimes appears and start wondering if the site is really a place I want to visit.
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JohnJames – there are a lot of different issues you’ve covered in that question!
I’ll try to answer them all as best I can.
As “guest” below commented, I don’t feel at all comfortable with saying that Kim Kardashian – or any woman – is not a ‘realistic’ woman. She’s a woman. She exists. And there is a huge spectrum of what a ‘woman’ should look like.
Who gets to be the Woman Police and decide who is a real woman and who isn’t?
That’s not my kind of feminism nor one I’d be comfortable with at MM.
Here is what I’ve always believed and what we try to live by at MM:
being interested in fashion, celebrities and beauty does not make you stupid.
Similarly, NOT being interested in fashion, celebrities and beauty does not make you smart.
What I’ve always wanted MM to be is a broad church – I figure if I’m interested in politics and feminism and the Kardashians and a pair of nice shoes and parenting and books and pop culture and knowing what’s going on in the world, then there must be plenty of others who are too.
I’m not interested in choosing one or another: serious or fluffy. They’re ALL parts of who I am and what I’m interested in reading about and learning about and discussing and debating.
As Caitlin Moran says in her BRILLIANT book How To Be A Woman, popular culture is a huge part of feminism. So much of what happens in pop culture – whether it’s a music video or a magazine cover or a Kardashian marriage or Big Brother – is merely a window into bigger conversations about society, values and issues that everyone can relate to (marriage, sexual politics, family dynamics, betrayal, body image etc etc).
So yes, Mamamia will continue to be true to our philosophy of being a place where you can come to talk intelligently and respectfully about current issues – significant, superficial and everything in between.
It will also continue to be a place where we will have conversations and run stories you won’t see anywhere else in the media; deeply personal stories written by our readers and smart/funny stories that make you think.
Mostly we’ll get the balance right. Occasionally we won’t. We’re VERY human. And there will be times when the issue of hypocrisy and inconsistency will come up and we’ll address it honestly and openly, as we’ve always done.
But we are very content in the knowledge that the MM readers are engaged and intelligent enough to bring those debates out into the open and we won’t shy away from criticism – we never do.
Hope that answers your questions….!
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Thanks Mia,
I don’t think I quite asked the right question…and probably grasped the wrong example…but as you know from my own post about the roles of sport and gossip in our lives, I agree that people are a broad church and that each can be equally valid in our lives (I mean, I’ve been following this post AND watching the 2nd Test
)
How can I put this…
OK – a comment…I have no doubt that you are are 100% committed to everything you say in your comment…from the outside looking in, I not always convinced that MM the website always matches that philosophy…but I accept that MM, like all things, is a work in progress…
Anyway, thanks for the quick reply…interesting to hear your thoughts as always.
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A word about that: I am one person and MM is a website. It is no longer a personal blog so everything that is said and posted and ever image that appears is not on my direct behalf.
I am the editor and publisher and of course MM does have a philosophy in keeping with my own but if I only published things I agreed with, I don’t think it would be as interesting a place to hang out as it is.
The other thing I wanted to say is that 2012 is the year that MM begins to walk our talk and start to publish our OWN contribution to a more diverse portrayal of women in the media.
Through our fashion posts and another project we’re about to announce, I hope we will be able to visually represent the diversity we’re always talking about in our posts.
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…I think that answers my original question…
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I look forward to that Mia, and hoep to see some true diversity, not simply the magazine version of diversity, which sadly usually turns out to be the odd slightly darker skin tone or girl who is one size above what’s normally shown or (gasp!) a model with freckles.
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Thanks Mia – I love that you reply to serious questions!
I guess I just have to decide between the food for thought and debate principle versus how much junk food can I tolerate!
I don’t read about the Kardashians and celebs because I just get bored. I don’t think the people who read about them are stupid or I am more intelligent than they are either but … I don’t like their endless influence on pop culture either. How much more does the media have to dumb down and flood us with endless, endless Kardashians. Kardashians put to us as something we should aspire to copy? Eeeeyucko. The space given to the Kardashians takes up the space where something really, really inspiring could appear.
A broad church is a good thing too. Not so sure about a trashy church. Is MM a leader or a follower? Each to their own though
The things in the media about women and men are bad stuff at the moment … sad, sad, sad.
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Thanks, Mia.
Please know that I (and I am only one person… not a gemini!) am SO over vacuous, boring celebrities. Anna Wintour ruined American Vogue by putting them on the cover.
And I can’t believe that they’ve only just cottoned on to the idea that curvy girls (e.g. Robyn Lawley) -just like slim girls look, well, GREAT.
And I’m sick of unique, interesting looking girls -like Heidi Montag, Sophie Dahl and Ricki-Lee becoming cookie-cutter. And citing health reasons – Like they were ever + 25 on the BMI at all…
That’s my two cents and I’m keeping my cash in my pocket for those images that I agree with.
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Thanks Mia, I love that you and the other writers answer questions and respond!
I have been a tourist at Mamamia for a while and recently have started getting daily mamamia fixes! I like to think that I am fairly intelligent (!) and with a strong female identity, I love reading across your broad range of topics, including the fashions and beauty posts.
I reckon what we all need to focus our attention on is how to educate children, teens and adults alike, on how to be critical of the images we see and the words we hear. At uni i was shown how to “unpack” these things and I think it is one of the greatest lessons in life. Asking ourselves what is the historians/authors/editors/ads/producers motivation, what is their perspective, what are they selling, is this a generalisation or stereotype etc will help us to navigate our way through the media.
Cheers
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This is SO common though. There is a great website called feministing – started by Jessica Valenti. The content is thought provoking and solid. However, the ADS tend towards weightloss, and dating sites, and so forth. One has to wonder why.
I think MamaMia tries to cater to different viewpoints, realising that humans are not homogeneous and don’t have the same interests – which is probably reflected by the authors on the site as they choose the content.
edit – love that my comment came just after Mias, and she said what I was trying to say… I swear her comment wasnt there as I was re-writing mine 100 times!
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I remember feministing doing a post about the ads and the comment was made by them that the ads are placed on their site by an external body so they do not have control over individual ads. They did however say to inform them of any that really did not fit what feministing is about.
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Why does it matter who is to blame.
When you have a flat tyre you don’t really need to know what (or more to the point WHO) the cause was… JUST FIX IT… Or if you can’t fix it- just work on fixing what you can and enlist others to help you. Yes, we need to know our history but the blame game is just ludicrous.
This is ‘he did’ ‘she did’ seriously does my head in
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Agree. As I mentioned below, my frustration with the AWW cover story – “This cover photo makes me feel like shit”. Well, actually, YOU make it make you feel like shit. If you don’t like it, don’t buy into it.
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Totally agree, Kris. The dollar wields great power. Cash doesn’t discriminate. Marketers will always listen to profit.
And I just I have to preface what I’m about to say with with saying that I’m in my 30s and have made through those teens to 20s body dysmorphic years…
I’m not sure that another women’s body alone should make people feel like shit. Whether curvy or slim or plastic or real… Model aeroplanes are supposed to look like aeroplanes. Why would you want to make an aeroplane look like the model. It should be vice versa. And how we look is diverse.
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I think i’m on a rant… sorry!
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The thing is, you CAN stop buying the magazines, but the message is still everywhere. Unless you live in a cave, you’ll be exposed to it, and I just don’t have the mental energy to check myself every time I’m exposed to it – otherwise I wouldn’t have time to think about much else. And so the message becomes sublimated.
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So true. I don’t buy these magazines, but walking my dogs the other day was bemused / horrified to see on the cover of Womans Day (or was it New Idea…?) Simone Callahan (formerly Warne) in a bikini above the by-line ‘My Body is Better Than Hers’, ‘Her’ being Liz Hurley. I’m sure that given the calibre of the publication, these weren’t her exact words – but the thought of her daughters (or anyone’s daughter, for that matter) being exposed to this one-upwomanship left a very sour taste in my mouth.
It may sell mags, but it’s not what I want to see.
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I also mean buy into in the broader sense as well. So definitely vote with your wallet, but also pull people up, pull yourself up when you hear the body shaming and comparing happening. Disagree with people. Support them in good things (my favourite idea in the pledge email from the MissRepresentation site was going to opening weeks of feminist movies so that their box office is higher).
Like I suggested in the AWW cover post – fake it till you make it if that’s what you need to do. You don’t have to fight every battle. Pick them. No-one can do all the fighting, but if everyone does little bits, that becomes a big movement.
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I was at the gym yesterday and MTV was playing. The “music” vid consisted of women dressed as a brass band with hats pulled down over the eyes so they basically appear interchangeable and faceless, skirts up over the butt waving them into the camera, then licking the trombones and trumpets and spanking each other. What the f has happened in the last 10 years that semi porn like this is now considered Ok for 11am public viewing?
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I’ve said this before, but the film clips on RAGE between midnight and 6 am when RAGE is rated M are way more suitable for general consumption than the clips played on RAGE between 6am and 9am, which are meant to be rated G (or PG at least)…
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And the music is better between midnight and 6am
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Hear hear!
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I used to think that too, but then I saw Duran Duran’s ‘Girls on Film’ video clip. THAT is soft-core porn, and is almost 20 years old. Same with Robert Palmer. Can’t think of any more off the top of my head – however it is not as pevelant or blatant as it is today.
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What’s also is sad/hard/frustrating, is the women who ALLOW themselves to be portrayed in this way.
The models, the singers, sorry “singers” and all those other people who put themselves out there to be exploited.
And I just wanted to single out that asshat who said that, I’m assuming jokingly, that one of the problems of a woman President would be PMS, you sir are a dick and need a slap. Heaven help you if the woman President DOES have PMS, your balls would be forcibly removed from your body.
Lastly, ladies, we have the power to change peoples perceptions of women. Sexist remarks should be address. And gentlemen, if you have friends that put down women, you have the power to pull them into line too.
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It isn’t just men driving this. It’s women too. Women who benefit from the insecurities and fears of other women – the diet industry, the magazine industry, entertainment, the media and advertising.
I believe women are more and more driven not by by their desire to sexually appease men, buy by their need to impress and appease other women. For example, I venture that most women don’t lose weight to get more male attention – we do it to gain approval and acceptance from our peers.
We need a greater compassion and acceptance for each other, and for ourselves, to change the way we portray ourselves, and allow ourselves to be portrayed.
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I agree Jo. I think it’s women putting it on other women. I also think that women tend to assume a lot about what’s expected and probably overthink what is expected. Of course people notice things and may comment about them. But you know what I find sad? Whenever there are posts about this kind of thing (the latest being the AWW cover one), suggestions like I’ve made of “Stop buying into it” are considered revolutionary. So many people said on that post that “It makes me feel like shit” or similar. It’s so ingrained people were liking these comments left right and centre. It was like that very poignant scene in Mean Girls where they’re having a group talk themselves down session in the mirror. Just stop it!
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Yes I agree. What gives you more pleasure,Your partner telling you you look lovely or your peer group?
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interesting point static. I’d like to share this with you:
“For many American men raised to see women as a yardstick with which to measure their own masculinity…..a partner’s weight gain is going to be perceived as a very real threat to their own standing. We all know men who get turned on when they realize that their wives or girlfriends are objects of desire for other men…….(is) your partner’s weight gain really turning you off, or are you worried about how other men are reacting to her as a result? ”
http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2006/04/06/men-women-homosociality-and-weight/
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So? Why is it their partner’s job to worry about what her partner’s friends may or may not notice about her?
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It’s not Kris. Did you read the whole of Hugo’s post?
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Yeah I did. I wasn’t referring to Hugo, I was referring to the generic “he” in the quote.
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I totally agree. Men are normally not that attracted to super thin airbrushed photos. Believe it or not. I believe much the superficiality in the media representation of women is firmly directed at other women, and selling them products to look the same.
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I loved Ariel Levy’s book on raunch culture back in 2005 … but I actually don’t think it is as bad as it was a few years ago.
Hear me out:
At least now there are cool hipster girls like Zooey Deschanel, Alexa Chung, helll- even Kristan Stewart- for girls to look up to. Love em or hate em, least they don’t look like Blow Up Dolls.
Music videos are probably the exception as they seem to be going … Rhiannon/ Britney etc… OBVIOUSLY don’t represent women well. But now you now have Lady Gaga who is a strong, savvy, independent women who seems unlikely to be chewed up and spat out by the industry. She’s too smart for that (and has a gay fanbase who are pretty loyal to their allies.) . She is sexual but not sexy in that she doesn’t appear to be targetting the hetreosexual male fan base. I admire that. (her music is occaisionally a little * yawn* but oh well.
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I watched this documentary a few months ago and it really opened my eyes to the way women are portrayed in the media- even women who work for the media are objectified. Some of the footage that was shown of American news shows was honestly shocking. Lewd and sexist comments, the complete lack of respect for women in power and female anchors with their breasts practically on show- it was nauseating.
No wonder I’m leered at on the street or talked down to by some men at work if this is the way we are represented. Sex and advertising has been a hot topic for quite some time, but this documentary goes deeper then that. Sexism is so deeply ingrained in our culture that a lot of the time we don’t bat an eyelid.
I’m glad it’s up on Mamamia as a talking point. As a 20 year old woman, I felt overwhelmed and a bit helpless after watching it- how do we change this?
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John you make some valid points but how can I stop my children (and myself!) being exposed to the images that bombard us in daily life!? The billboards, the ads on buses, the covers of magazines at the newsagency/milk bar/service station? I don’t watch music clips, I don’t buy beauty magazines I don’t watch Hollywood movies where women are portrayed as bimbos/sex objects yet I still feel like these narrow views of what it is to be female are everywhere!! There needs to be a change in consumption because you are right, they are in it to make money but how do we bring this about?
I feel despair at the way women are portrayed in the media….
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Yeah, I know…it’s not going to be easy…
Sadly, I think it’s like vaccination…unless the majority of people stop consuming, the media won’t change…but I have a feeling that lots of people are completely unaware that what they consume is crap…
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I agree Caroline. It’s not quite as simplistic an issues as just not buying the product. As a parent to two young girls in their very early years of school it is ASTONISHING how much of an impact advertising/ portrayal of women in news headlines, tv shows, music, etc etc really does impact on them, and this shapes their ideas, just as strongly it seems, as any idea I can express to them. They are like little sponges sucking in all around them and these days that is alot…buses, shop windows, random brick walls, taxis, even on the stairs.
You cannot sheild them from this outside the home.
It’s been quite a shock to me and an issue I’m scrambling to deal with. As my own person, I can hold my own, have been quite vocal about feminist issues and independent my whole life. But I can only set an example for my little ones. And the subliminal messages get through to my girls. They are intelligent and deep thinkers, and I think most people underestimate just how much they take in (this may be so for all children just using my experiences here). When my two year old had concerns about being fat I was shocked (her tummy, like all kids swelled out a little, not like the flat tummies seen on women in advertising). In a home where we barely watch tv, no magazines etc, this still occured. From outside influences upon her little psyche.
As an adult, its easy for us to make a stand and refuse to buy. As a child, it’s becoming the norm to see these sexualised belittling issues being flaunted constantly. How can they protect against that? Due to the sheer volume, they begin to see this as the norm.
This is where it becomes more of a complex and worriesome issue for our society.
And now I’m I’m losing my point and starting to rant as the two brats are having a screaming fight and a music fight fest at top volume and I better go and police the situation. Got to love school holidays.
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Women are the problem too . We buy that shit and buy women’s magazines where women are degraded more than in men’s nags . We are not victims .
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No, i didnt buy my favorite magazine this month because they featured a nude deborah hutton on the cover. We can vote, with social forums and our purses.
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Agreed…. I read a womens mag at a cafe today and vowed never to buy a magazine with celebs in it again.
It was so bitchy and hate-filled and derogatory.
Enough is enough.
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“Women are the problem too . We buy that shit and buy women’s magazines where women are degraded more than in men’s nags.”
Speak for yourself, dear.
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I’d argue that modern media has a tendency to misrepresent EVERYTHING!
How many realistic representations of children or men or scientists or old people do you see in the media…not many…
But the misrepresentation of women is definitely a problem…
BUT unless we change our media consumption habits, then the media will continue to gives us what we are prepared to consume…
If you don’t like how women are portrayed in magazines, stop buying them…if you don’t like how women are portrayed on TV, stop watching those shows…
…and let advertisers know that you are not prepared to consume media that continue to portray clichés instead of real people (ironically, so-called reality TV probably least represents real people)
The media isn’t there for our benefit…the media exists to make money…if publications and shows that misrepresent people keep making money, the media will keep making them.
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Well said John!
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EXCATLY! Thank you for summing this up so concisely and intelligently.
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John, I agree with all your comments on this subject!
Can you write another guest post for MM about it?!
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Yes! Fund the media you want to see! This is why I pay for a Crikey subscription but won’t get one for The Australian (or Cosmo for that matter). If they have sexist ads, don’t buy their products.
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Except this only makes sense with majority-type numbers of protesters, and I’m not sure that number will ever be reached – so does that mean give up? I’d argue it rather means try by other means – which is exactly what this doco tries to do, as does Mamamia (if inconsistently), as do individual women and men in their lives and conversations. Sometimes, money doesn’t talk, because those of us who care don’t have enough of it. Funny how often that is… In mass society, we mostly have to go by other means. Just opting out sounds good, but it really doesn’t achieve very much at all.
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