Gerry Harvey
Late last year, Chief Executive of Harvey Norman, Gerry Harvey started to get a little antsy. He complained that local retailers were under threat from online stores and called for online purchases from overseas to be taxed.
Not surprisingly, he found fast support from the major retailers (who also claim to be affected by online retailing) to call for the government to impose a GST on online products that cost under $1000 and to do it fast.
Julia Gillard called for the Productivity Commission to conduct an inquiry “into the impact of globalisation on the retail industry, including the growth of online shopping” The report is due back later this year. But that is not quick enough for some:
According to reports in ARN
Harvey Norman’s outspoken chairman, Gerry Harvey, has claimed many retailers will perish unless immediate action is taken to add GST onto Internet transactions of under $1000.
Speaking at a press conference surrounded by stocktake sales shoppers in Sydney’s CBD, Harvey said the GST imbalance would cost Australian jobs if not rectified as soon as possible.
He also rejected calls from Australian Retailer Association executive director, Russell Zimmerman, to wait for a report from the Productivity Commission into the issue before taking action.
“There are a lot of retailers that are going to go broke between now and the next three months,” Harvey said. “This has been taken to the Productivity Commission, which will take nine months to look at it and then make a recommendation to the Government.
“We can’t wait that long. For the case of a lot of retailers this is a matter of life or death.”
It is interesting to note that Harvey Norman does not actually have an online retail offering . This is interesting because if they did, perhaps people who LIKE to shop online for the convenience factor, might spend their $$$ there instead of overseas. Just a thought.
A group of major retailers including Harvey Norman, Myer, David Jones, Target, House, Borders and Angus & Robertson have taken to the national newspaper with full page adverts trying to raise support for this new GST.
The Herald Sun reports:
In the ads, the retail coalition, which collectively employs more than 76,000 people, warns that failing to act “will see a reduction in hours and shifts for casual and part-time workers, and ultimately cost Australians jobs in retail, manufacturing, logistics and related services”.
The advertisement also says that if the government does not want to impose GST on internet purchases — currently exempt from GST and import duty if less than $1000 — it should not impose it on domestic purchases.
“That means everyone is exempt from GST and duty charges for purchases less than $1000, or everyone has to pay GST and duty,” the ad reads.
The reaction to this advert has been resounding with #deargerryharvey trending on Twitter and very little support going to the major retailers. The Courier Mail reports:
Assistant Treasurer Bill Shorten maintains that imposing the GST on every item purchased from overseas is too expensive. “The cost of compliance would be greater than the tax raised,” he said, adding consumers and retailers wanted a considered response from the government, not a knee-jerk reaction….
Mr Harvey was unimpressed by the argument, accusing Mr Shorten of being out of touch.
“Bill, wake up,” he said.
In the same publication Christopher Zinn, spokesman for consumer advocacy group Choice described the retailers’ campaign as an “alarmist red herring” driven by self interest.
“The big chains should recognise that it’s their high prices, limited range and poor customer service that increasingly encourages people to use the internet,” spokesman Christopher Zinn said in a statement. “Consumers are simply chasing the best deal and the best service and often these days that is found online.”….
“Major stores are not being forced by anyone to charge these high prices,” Mr Zinn said. “This debate is about quality of service, competitive pricing and the inability of some retailers to understand the future of internet shopping.”
And the Australian reports independent senator Nick Xenophon disagreeing with the major retailers in favour of small business
#deargerryharvey
INDEPENDENT Senator Nick Xenophon says imposing the GST on all internet purchases would be an administrative nightmare and highly impractical.
The South Australian Senator instead argues that the current exemption on internet purchases under $1000 from GST should be extended to small businesses. He said it was “extraordinary” that a coalition of big retailers were preparing a campaign designed to pressure the government to impose GST on all goods bought over the internet.
But Senator Xenophon says changes to GST laws should first apply to small businesses because major retailers already have a competitive advantage. “There ought to be GST exemptions for small businesses in this country otherwise we’ll get further and further behind,” he said.
“It’s a bit rich for the big retailers to suddenly become the consumer’s friend when it comes to this. It’s a bit like Goliath pretending to be David,” he said.
But the Greens have come out in support of the move. According to 9news
Acting Attorney-General Brendan O’Connor indicated on Tuesday the government would not change the laws, but Senator Brown said it should reconsider. “GST on imported goods is a reasonable thing,” he told reporters in Hobart on Tuesday.
“Why should the shop up the street have to charge GST for its customers but the shop selling goods out of Tokyo or California not have to charge GST?”
UPDATE
According to SMH:
THE Harvey Norman founder, Gerry Harvey, will step back from the retailers’ campaign for GST to be imposed on overseas online purchases, saying he is hurt by the avalanche of criticism directed at him and feels that getting involved was ”suicidal”.
He said the rise of social media such as Twitter and Facebook had increased the ”vicious and hateful” attacks against him and a fellow retail boss, Solomon Lew.
Mr Lew led the campaign, involving a coalition of retail companies, most of which are owned by the Lew family, which called on the government to end the GST exemption on imported goods worth less than $1000.
”You might have got a nasty phone call or a letter back in the old days but now anything slightly controversial, these people, whoever they might be, they go for you zealously and with hatred all over Twitter,” Mr Harvey said. ”If you are a CEO of a company and you speak out and then the board gets involved … it is suicidal.
”Because of my profile, I then get all these threats and people hone in on me. It becomes me, Gerry Harvey and Solomon Lew – billionaires, greedy, ugly, old, out-of-date c—s, and the people writing this seem to think we have been ripping them off for years and that we deserve this.”
The federal government has commissioned a review of retailing by the Productivity Commission. Mr Harvey said the gripe of the retailing coalition was not about ”online retail versus bricks and mortar” but rather about closing a tax loophole that did not support Australian jobs or the economy.
From ABC Online
Retailer Gerry Harvey says he is not stepping down from the campaign to have a GST placed on overseas online purchases.
Newspaper reports suggested he was retreating from the tax fight because of the criticism and personal attacks he has attracted from consumers.
Mr Harvey says that is not the case and he is 100 per cent behind the campaign and will remain so.
He says he would like to see other retailers take more of a public role, but he will never back down.
“That’s not in my nature to run away – I’ll stand up and fight,” he said.
“If I think something is right I’ll fight for it, always have. If it’s wrong or I’ve been proved wrong I’ll walk away and I’ll apologise.”
Mr Harvey is one of many retailers calling for the $1,000 tax-free threshold to be scrapped.
With such a fraction of total retailing coming from overseas websites, is this really an issue? Clearly, the big players think that it is likely to grow as a share of the whole retail pie and they’re worried. Are these major retailers out of touch with the way people want to shop in 2011? Do you shop online much? What kind of things do you buy? Is it simply a lack of good service in the form of competitive local websites that can offer the same kind of prices and service you can get from overseas?
Or perhaps you work in retailing – what’s YOUR view?
Comments
493 Comments so far
It would be interesting to see what small business perfume retailers (or anything else that’s banned from the postal service) have to say on this matter.
Anyway, what do I buy on line? Top of the list by $ value is groceries, followed pretty quickly by fruit and veg – all from Oz, all with GST and taxes and delivery costs attached. I also bulk buy things like dried fruit from Angas Park and wine, which I wuldn’t do if I had to lug it home on the bus. Then there are second-hand goods (books, utensils etc) because they are out of print or better quality than the designed-to-fall-apart crap in the shops today – if you want a good quality eggbeater, you have to go for the 60-y-o Australian-patent-pending Smartwhip, and there is a huge ebay trade in 1950s Mixmasters because the current ones are all but unusable for serious cooks in residential kitchens – AND you can buy the parts if you need to. Clothes – why would I spend hours trying clothes on when I know my Sportscraft and David Lawrence and Ezibuy sizes and can do it from home at midnight if I want to (all with GST etc added)? And audio books from o/s – because at 5 British pounds-ish each (plus 1 pound 90 postage READ IT AND WEEP AUSTRALIA POST), it’s affordable, whereas in the shops here for $40plus each, I don’t buy them, I borrow them from the library – even though I do still buy current editions of print books from my local bookshops (NOT Angus and Robertson, who have been gouging for years). Finally, I buy gifts and stationery from Australian retailers who arren’t located in my State or who aren’t carried enough by retail outlets – Red Tractor have beautiful cards etc and Craft Victoria carry quality gifts and jewellery.
Apart from the groceries and fruit and veg, this is stuff that – if i had to go to physical shops – I would not buy, or would buy much, much less of. It may not be good for my savings plan, but Australian retailers are doing much, much better out of it because I have access to the net.
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Actually, you can buy purfume on strawberry net. Very cheaply too.
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My sister bought “genuine” perfum on the net. When it arrived it has sticker labels on it. Genuine perfume doesn’t have sticker labels, it has branding that is etched into the glass.
When she phoned to business to discuss her fake, she was told “look I wouldn’t advise you to make a scene about this. If you make a complaint, we have your details”. Clearly it was a threat. Thankfully my sister had the sense to walk away quietly.
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Forget it… Australia shouldn’t have it either!
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Agreed completely!
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I’m a full time student working as a cashier and makes about $150 a week.
Medical textbook:
Uni coop bookshop (with discount card): $138
Book depository: $52
Shut up Gerry.
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Oh and thank you Book Depository. I wish I could marry you!
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I own a small retail shop and run an online shop from it too.
Did you know that 80% of all Australians are employed by small business.
Also, small retailers are usually battling to survive. Only a very small percentage are strong.
Ask yourself this question ; What really happened to the local shops that closed down in your neighbourhood recently.
Answer ; they went broke and lost the money they invested in it.
Put simply, we need to support Australian small business’s to support Australian jobs and the Australian economy.
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Is it that much of a burden to do the online side as well? I’d love to run an online shop.
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I had an online homewares store, it was not the success I had hoped, when you have a bricks & morter store you can talk to people when they enter, engage with them & create a relationship, this is SO much harder online. What I did find, that has evidenced itself in this article, is that people shopping online are looking for a bargin, a little exclusivity helps but its mostly price.
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Unfortunately that’s capitalism at work – not perfect by any means but ultimately the market decides who lives and who dies (even with the Govt doing it’s best to stuff the process up by it’s intervention). Seriously, this “support Aussie businesses” line is really wearing thin. Why should consumers pay more when they can get the same product cheaper elsewhere? It doesn’t save jobs to pay more for something – it simply means that if i pay more for a product then I have less money to spend elsewhere (yes, perhaps I can ‘save’ your job but what about the job for the other person where I now can’t spend money because I paid over the odds in your store?). It’s a simple process of economics and forget the sentimental rubbish. If you want to pay more to feel good about ‘saving’ jobs then go ahead and be a fool because there are plenty of people around who will take advantage of you by releiving you of your hard earned!
Seriously people – start thinking and don’t get sucked in by the ‘you must buy Aussie to protect jobs brigade……’ It’s 2011, not 1980.
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The issue today in 2011 is that a country with 22 million people is trying to compete globally on price. It all boils down to economies of scale and the high cost of doing business in a geographically isolated large country with not many people. The stores just wont stay open if they cant get their profit margins.
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Exactly! If we don’t shop locally in the already strained shops, they will be closing at the rate of knots!
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…..and the sun will still rise and then set and people will adapt just like they have for thousands of years. In fact, think about the upside….no more of those dreadful last minute trips to the shopping ccentre in the weeks prior to Christmas. All those ex-Retail people can get a job in the new world delivering all those goods ordered online. The scaremongers would have everyone believe that jobs will be lost but what they fail to tell you is that new jobs will spring up elsewhere.
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I beg your pardon?
Where did I say that the products in my store cost more than the ones bought online from overseas?
“”support Aussie business’s” line is really wearing thin”….you are completely missing the point! The point I am making is that 80% of all Australians are employed by a small business. If we all support them, we are keeping our economy strong and we will ALL prosper from that. What part of that point is wearing thin for you?
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So are you going to answer the question?
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Still waiting for you to answer the question!
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The part that seems to assume that Aussie consumers should continue to support businesses that charge a lot more for products than overseas businesses. The market is more than just Australia. Businesses are free to source their products worldwide and sell worldwide via the net or however else they choose.
In a closed market where Aussie businesses were not allowed to buy or sell outside Australia, meaning all goods purchased need to be manufactured here, then I can sort of see your argument. But to claim that because businesses employee Assies that they should be beholden to supporting those same businesses just doesn’t wash in a worldwide market place. Capital doesn’t disappear just because an Aussie business can’t compete and shuts up shop. It moves to places that can compete sucessfully (the US is going through that pain right now but ultimately their economy will evolve). Look at Germany after the war if you want an example of a decimated economy rising up and evolving to become a world super power again.
Gosh, getting a bit deep here but you get the picture. Basically, free markets (without meddling from Govt and other vested interest groups) are the best solution to an efficient economy and inefficient, uncompetitive businesses should fold. Sad, but true. That’s how markets work and to try to artificially prop them up is ultimately a waste of scarce resources.
Oh, and in case you were wondering about all the people and what happens to their jobs. Well, to begin with the country feels some pain as long as the Govt doesn’t try to fight against it and then it becomes more lean and able to compete properly again.
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“Capital doesn’t disappear just because an Aussie business can’t compete and shuts up shop” Sorry Mr Ed but you haven’t answered the question at all. You see we aren’t talking about 1 Aussie business shutting up shop. Clearly if the many many small retailers here that are already struggling, have to shut up shop, there will be masses of people out of work. The many many business owners will be way out of pocket and our whole economy will suffer.
You ever so flippantly describe economies bouncing back from decimation as if it is something to embrace and not to fear. I certainly don’t want to face a decimated economy and I’m positive that you will be hard pressed to find someone that does.
Your’s is the only voice here that is unconcerned with Australians losing jobs or suffering from hardship in their business. Perhaps your objective is to be contrary just for the sake of it. It is very transparent though. What you actually reveal is a selfish attitude that is unconcerned with the plight of hard working small business owners like myself.
For your information, uncompetitive businesses fold regardless of this issue.
And your following comment “But to claim that because businesses employee Assies that they should be beholden to supporting those same businesses just doesn’t wash in a worldwide market place.” is an oxymoron!
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Look, I have absolutely nothing against any business person doing business and risking their own capital to do so. In fact I admire people who do so It should be fairly clear from my comments that I support a free market so I’m not some sort of loony leftie that wants the Government to control our lives. Let me also add the following point in support of businesses in Australia. MOST of the problems in our economy are actually the result of Govt policy intervention. In a pure market, the market decides how to allocate capital efficiently ( and market means any place that buyers and sellers can come together to engage in business – not just in 1 country but worldwide). However, Australia is now shackled with the legacy of Govt policy, supposedly aimed at helping but ultimately, hindering businesses ability to compete in the worldwide market place. The result is that as aussie businesses can’t compete, they will fail and i’m afraid to say that this is what should happen. Yes, people won’t like it but that’s life and that’s the way market work and should work. What people should be really railing against is Govt meddling.Minimum wages cripple businesses ability to compete with countries that don’t force this on businesses in their jurisdications. Forcing businesses to fund maternity leave is another one – sounds like a nice idea and the Govt gets votes for it but it is another cost that business must pass on in increased prices. All of this adds up and then consumers complain about the cost of goods.
The flip side is that consumers get taxed to the hilt and with ever increasing costs they seek better pricing (some might actually want to support Aussie businesses but the tide has shifted that much that the price disparity between retail and online businesses forces them to move online). That is where we are at and the tide will continue to shift particularly now we have a Labor Govt (I’m not getting into that one now but suffice to say that whatever they do will make us worse off than if they did nothing and let free markets work properly)
You call me selfish – I say I’m just exercising my right to choose where I spend my money and if I choose to not to pay more than I should, that is my perogative just like it’s yours to open and run your own business, risk your capital and hopefully reap the rewards of doing so.
Re the empoyment issue. If the German economy thing doesn’t wash with you then try something closer to home – the previously strong manufacturing industry now virtually non-existent. We won’t get into the cause for that one (but it’s mainly Govt policy again!). Everyone used to say that there would be massive unemployment when that happened but what has actually transpired – we now have one of the lowest unemployment levels in the world. Other industries took over, people shifted to new opportunities – another example of a market working. The same thing will happen with traditional retailing so the employment thing is a big red herring. Of course people will lose jobs in retail but it won’t die completely – the weak will close and the strong will prosper and others will see opportunities to exloit.
BTW: We might not agree with each other but I do actually wish you success. I also respect your right to have your opinion. I trust that you will afford me the same right.
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Haha, “lefty loonie”. You are actually a redneck righty.
You have proven this with your disregard of the great things that have come from the people of Australia with the help of “Government intervention” like a minimum wage and good conditions for Australian workers. I employ 8 staff and I can tell you that I enjoy knowing that my staff are treated with the dignity that they deserve with a decent wage. You may not be concerned for the well being of all working Australians but I would suggest that you are (thankfully) a dying breed!
This debate is about what could happen to our economy based on the fact that a very large proportion of Australians are employed by small business and that those jobs are threatened by the “choice” of consumers to buy from overseas online retailers. I would never suggest that people shouldn’t choose where to spend their money but I do hope they choose to support Australian business if they can. You use terms like “not allowed” in relation to peoples choice. Nobody said we should make it a rule to stop people buying from O/S online retailers, so I don’t why you keep twisting this argument. You also talk about us all getting taxed to the hilt. Don’t you want a good standard of infrastructure, education, medical system or standard of living? If you don’t think we should pay taxes for these services, who do you think should pay for them? I certainly want to pay my own way and expect nothing from the Government for free. They aren’t my parents. They are just the organisation that we developed to fascilitate a good and fair standard of living. Please go elsewhere to push your personal political motives. It isn’t relevant and this is not the place!
P.S I said your attitude was selfish because it is. You have repeatedly said that it’s no big deal if one industry dies and another rises to replace it. You mustn’t be one of the people who’s job is under threat or perhaps you are just devoid of empathy? When an industry dies, people are directly affected in a very serious way. To show some compassion to those people is not a bad thing even you aren’t one of them.
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Dear Mr Ed,
You don’t have to worry about sounding like a ‘loonie leftie” as you so eloquently put it in a comment above. You don’t.
Unencumbered free markets don’t regulate themselves. The world doesn’t follow textbook theories. How do you think the GFC started? Historically, deregulation ends up making the rich even richer and the poor and disadvantaged even more poorer an more disadvantaged. Look at the USA, they are heading in the direction of a Banana Republic.
The rhetoric you are espousing – no govt intervention at all, cheap labour, less taxes, etc in the long term undermines everyone but the rich. Those ideologies seem to me to be quite extreme right wing. Getting rid of safety nets is not only morally corrupt but bad for society as a whole and creates instability.
I’m all for people creating wealth and individuals enjoying their success, I love the game of business and making money. But when we get ourselves in to a situation where the playing field becomes even more uneven and only serves to cater for a privileged few, that is not a society that I would want to live in.
There needs to be a balance. Not one extreme or another.
What I enjoy about the Mamamia website is that all views can be expressed in an environment where respect is key. So I hope that you do not take my comment the wrong way. I respect that you have the choice to a different opinion.
The other thing I really enjoy and is really refreshing about Mamamia is that it is all about building a online community. Communities are about looking after one another and building something together. Something that seems to be lacking in the world today where everyone just seems out for themselves.
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But I happen to agree with you on one point. That when one industry dies, another takes it place, absolutely. We all need to be adaptable to the changing market conditions. Everything should even itself out.
But again the point is raised though, if roughly 80% of employment comes from small businesses what will happen in the short term if everyone starts sending their money overseas? This is a very unique problem that we now face for the first time. A truly globalised economy where Australia is at a disadvantage for the first time perhaps ever.
First of all, businesses will start to shut down at a fast rate, unemployment will go up, then more businesses will close down, then unemployment will go up. Its a vicious downward spiral that is very difficult to get out of.
So as long as you can goods cheaper none of this concerns you?!
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Agreed, anyone who says we shouldn’t have a minimum wage has clearly never worked at the lower-end of the market or have forgotten what its like. I love how free-market espousers embrace all the textbook theories except for one – market failure, proven sectors where the government is needed. And if the support your fellow man stuff is too touchy feely then think of the cost of poverty vs. cost of minimum wage argument. It’s a lot easier and a lot cheaper to just ensure everyone can earn a decent living in the first place. Unless you want to get into the private prison business.
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Hi Apples, was wondering when you were going to wade in on this debate. Looking after each other is good business practice in the long term. It’s win win for everyone.
Halla Tomasdottir from Iceland makes some extremely insightful comments about the GFC and how her successful financial company does business differently. I cant help but wonder if its because she has combined the more traditional male way of doing business with the wonderful yet often under utilised “touchy feely” aspects that have been viewed by society as more feminine.
Well its common sense isn’t it, incorporate the best practises possible. Yet because the world is still run by men they still don’t consider the other side.
She also comments that now post GFC, the financial companies are rebuilding in the exact same way as before! Even though they know it’s proven to be a failure! Its the definition of insanity.
The full talk is at
http://www.ted.com/talks/halla_tomasdottir.html
Highly recommend it.
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Oh and don’t get me started on the sick business of private prisons in the USA run to make a profit!! And to think I wanted to live and work in the USA once upon a time. No wonder talk show host Jon Stewart had to have a rally to restore sanity!
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This is crazy, why the hell will we wana pay GST online shopping , gov have gone nuts
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As an Aussie who lives in the UK I’m surprised by the comments that this is too much work and an impossible task. The UK does it on anything non commercial worth over £40 (about $62) and spare a thought for us as our VAT just went up to 20%. If the UK can do it then it can happen.
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It’s kinda amusing to see the Greens side with this as big Harvey Norman stores tend to be out of town and you need a car to get to them, whereas shopping online means less car use.
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not really. things don;t get delivered to your door by themselves.
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I’ve been reading though everyones comments on this story today (lets just say I didn’t get a whole lot done at work today
) and couldn’t agree more. Im 21 and have practically no financial responsibilities (yes, still living at home..) so I don’t mind buying expensive clothes/makeup etc if I like them, but what I hate is knowing that elsewhere products are 1/2 the price- so I shop online.
BUT for all the bad beauty customer service that I’ve read on here I do have a good story.
I went to Mecca Maxima in Melbourne after work today to buy YSL Touche Eclat simply because everyones raving about it. I was planning on doing a bit of s strawberry net haul but thought I better check out the product first. When I walked in a girl happily came straight up to me and asked me if I needed any help- I told her what I wanted and she told me that one of the other sales assistants is in love with the product and that she’d go get that girl to help me. That girl came over and removed my current undereye makeup and carefully applied the highlighter. Without asking she then showed me all the other places I should/could use the product eg cheekbones, down the middle of my nose etc. I brought the product from her straight away!!! Compared to my experience at DJ’s a few days earlier where the sales girl literally had no idea what she was talking about- swatched it on my hand and expected me to buy it straight away!…and don’t even get me started on the MAC girls! lol.
tbh I’ll still continue to do a lot of shopping online but just thought I’d share a positive experience in case people though they were doomed to forever buy the wrong makeup shades online
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Nice story but would you go back to the same store next time if you discovered that you could save 50% buying the same product online next time? If you feel some sort of moral obligation to continue to pay more based on your experience then good on you – your decision to waste your own money I guess.
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I think the tone of your response is a bit rude. Price is not the only driver of consumer behaviour, as I’m sure you’re aware based on your other comments. Some people will pay more for the same item if they derive other forms of value from the transaction, like service, or ethical manufacture, or whatever element is important to them.
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That comment was me.
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I think you are a little over-sensitive. The question specifically was in relation to the purchase of the same item the NEXT TIME if that item was 50% cheaper online. She had a nice experience the first time – I’m interested to know what she would do next time she wants to buy that product if it’s a lot cheaper online.
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I have always had great service at Mecca but I bought a really nice perfume there before Xmas – it was $200 and I discovered it online yesterday for $119. I will buy it online next time because I know what I want and I don’t want to pay $80 just to see a smiley face ring up my order. However, I will continue to shop and sniff at Mecca for other items. Also I recently tried on a pair of $425 jeans at a store in Sydney (who pays $425 for jeans??) and then bought them online for $87, got them in 5 days with no shipping. So let’s see 10% GST added to $87 = you would still be stupid not to buy them online.
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So investing in your own economy is “your decision to waste your own money” ?
I agree that if you can get an item for 50% less, it would be difficult to pass that up but you don’t seem to see the long term good in buying locally do you?
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No, but I’m willing to listen to your rationale
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You aren’t interested in hearing my rationale. If you were, you would have read all the reasons posted here by very rational people, sharing all the valid reasons that buying locally is a good thing. No need to keep repeating it for the closed minded.
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If I can save 50% on-line buying – means that “it’s a secret this time” has a 100% mark-up on items. Your service would have to be beyond excellent for me to continue coming to your store.
I doubt it. This means “it’s a secret this time” is ripping off customers. I would go to a store that is not ripping me off and gives good service or go on-line.
Most stores fail to realise that the general family want good prices and some good service rather than over priced goods with super excellent service.
The on-line sales have shown that.
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Here we go again having to listen to your baseless accusations about retailers “ripping us off”.
I wish i was able to just ignore your ignorant lies but I am yet to develop a skin thick enough to disregard false accusations.
I am a small retailer with both online and shop front premises.
I charge a standard mark up. I am not rich. Small business owners rarely are rich and that is because of this simple fact ; there is very little money to be made in small retail. My personal pay packet is very meagre and if I was ripping you off, I would be better paid.
Do you get that if we don’t charge the mark up that we do, we will have to fold? We would have to fold because without that markup (that you call a rip off) there would not be enough money to pay $1500 a week rent or staff. Not to mention the many losses made from the many thefts we have to endure along with packaging, freight and running costs. My shop offers a very good service. We gift wrap every gift bought from our store for free and thankfully i can now say that all of my staff are friendly and helpful and hard working. We can’t please everyone because there is the dilemma that some customers want you to run up to them and ask if they need any help whilst others put their hands up as a defence if you even say hello. I have decided that we will not run up to anybody and risk offending them with a pushy attitude so we just say hello. I think this shows them we are acknowledging them so they feel at ease to ask for help if they want it. I can’t see how we could offer more than that.
Hopefully you will retract your lies that “It’s a secret this time is ripping off customers” or are you too proud to admit when you are out of line or completely wrong?
Learn some tolerance and open your mind to the facts. Anti government and anti retail rhetoric are proving you to be a very small minded individual indeed. Don’t even bother trying to defend yourself as all I have accused you of has been proven in your writing!
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I did not feel some kind of ‘moral obligation’ as you put it, the highlighter cost $10 more in store than it did online… and the fact that the girl serving me was helpful made me see other uses for the product and I decided that I would rather pay $10 extra and be able to start using the product straight away than wait 3-7 business days to receive it.
Also, pretty sure I stated in my post that I will continue to shop online.
Online shopping is not the end of physical retailers- they need to either learn to adapt to changes or pack up shop.
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Zara, Yes you did mention that you would continue to buy stuff online. My question, following your first post was whether you would buy the same product in that store next time based on your experience the first time if the product was significantly cheaper online. You know how it works now etc. Would you pay a huge premium in store next time if ou could buy it online much cheaper?
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of course if I found the product online for significantly less I would buy it, I’m a uni student who works two days a week- I shouldn’t be spending $55 at YSL to begin with! lol
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Yet still happy to use that stores staff and expertise – these things cost. Price should not be the only deciding factor.
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Large retailers have been caught napping, plain and simple.
Previously they benefited from the weak Australian dollar, prohibitive shipping charges and the general lack of options when buying online which meant that a lot of us were only buying online if we absolutely had to. Now the dollar has picked up and there are more and more companies that not only ship to Australia but offer free or competitive shipping with a greater range of products. This coupled with rising costs of living in general of course means that price is going to be our #1 priority. If they were real businessmen they would have anticipated the trend to online retailing and done something to combat it.
I completely understand that we are an isolated country with a small population and a smaller market, but the price discrepancies between products available here and overseas is just unbelievable. Charging %10 GST wouldn’t make much of a difference as most of the time it would still be cheaper to buy online.
And as many of you have mentioned, the service standards here are getting worse and worse. I don’t mind paying for good service from knowledgeable staff, but it’s getting harder and harder to come across. Shopping in Myer these days is horrible which is a shame because just before they split from Coles Group they were really starting to improve their range.
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Speaking of Myer – they made my blood boil recently. I was in the lingerie section @ Donacaster trying to spend a $100+ gift voucher on maternity bras. Not one of the silly women in the fitting rooms had a tape measure in order to measure me up and looked at me like I was moron when I asked. Heck, I was happy to measure myself if I had to! But no….Too hard for them.
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I went to Kmart at a different store (ie, not my usual). I was blown away by the CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!! Can I just say…..I’d forgotten how good it is: Smiles, service, advice, assistance. Sigh.
AND no creepy loud ads that I have to turn mute on to avoid.
I was so impressed, I sent them an email.
Online has it’s place and so does large retail but they are going to have to lift their game. It’s so simple.
Maybe if we keep avoiding Harvey Norman, the store will disappear? One can only hope.
As for Aussie stores and their online presence…PLEASE….lift your game guys. Mr By bought me a bit of techie kit for Xmas. He bought it from Dick Smith online. Now, there was plenty of time to deliver it. It was before Xmas as we celebrated early. Did it arrive within a week? No.
After a few phone calls, he was told by the online store that it was at the depot and would be delivered to our local post office. No, he could NOT pick it up from the depot. Then, when he went to pick it up from said post office, he actually had to walk past the local Dickies…. *smacks hand to forehead*
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Somebody asked for a list of great “places” to shop online – so here’s a few…..
BOOKS
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk or .com – check both as there is a slight price difference depending on the dollar value.
FASHION AND OTHER DEPARTMENT STORE “STUFF”
http://www.barneys.com
http://www.neimanmarcus.com
http://www.saksfifthavenue.com
http://www.asos.com
http://www.bluefly.com
GROCERIES
http://www.homeshop.com.au – this is Woolies online – I have only ever had EXCELENT experiences doing my grocery shop this way
AUDIO BOOKS
http://www.audible.com – pretty cheap and such a large variety
There are DOZENSSSSSSS of other “places” that I shop online, beacause I find it CONVENIENT to do so, but in terms of good prices, above is it for me!
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thanks for this list! I have only recently converted to online shopping – I did most of my xmas buying online, which was easy, convenient (after hours) and – often – cheaper too.
I bought a lot at Fishpond.com.au because shipping is free and prices competitive. Does anyone know any other good kids toy stores online?
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No probs!!
Yes – for toys AND HEAPS OF OTHER STUFF TOO – can’t believe I forgot to mention it! http://www.oo.com.au – AWESOME!
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I love saks online, their sales are fantastic!!! Asos are great too & delivery is so fast. I love net-a porter for the best designer clothes & bags. I have been shopping for my teenage son at Abercrombie & Fitch in NY, gorgeous gorgeous fabircs, cool clothes that he actually wears.
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I would add Booko.com.au as they have Book depository UK and US prices compared plus a whole lot of others all including postage.
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Asos is great. I’m wearing and Asos top right now.
Their catwalk feature on their website is great for seeing how clothes look on a person as opposed to a mannequin. Yes, I know the models are not exactly my size but it does give you an idea.
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There is just no way that Customs and the tax office could possibly collect the GST on goods worth less than $1000. These agencies would need to increase their staffing levels to extraordinary numbers just to have the manpower to facilitate what Gerry Harvey is proposing. As these are federal government agencies much of the wages for these extra staff would be paid for by the tax payer. So it would be a double whammy tax, paying GST on all online goods plus potential increases in other taxes to fund all the extra Customs and Tax office staff. Every single letter and parcel that comes from overseas is x-rayed and screened by Quarantine and Customs. If Customs had to then apply the GST to every single on line purchase the international mail centres would come to a standstill!
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How crazy are the Greens? They say, oh no, we can’t have people buying direct from those evil overseas retailers!
Forgetting that the big businesses they are siding with stock most of their stuff from overseas anyway.
Who would have thought the Greens would side with the poor little rich guys?
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The Greens do have some loon ideas which is why I don’t like voting for them.
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And the other irony is that gerry is using big job losses as a reason to get the average Aussie on side with his ‘tax Aussie online consumers campaign’ when he has already contributed to the decimation of Australian Manufacturing by purchashing most of his stock overseas for years now.
One word…..hypocrite!
Oh, and Bob Brown is just an idiot. Here’s a thought – Retail stores use physical space and consume physical resources and consume lots of energy. Online stores use less – which one is better for the environment? Why do people take the Greens seriously?????
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Whatever Bob Brown is, he is not an idiot. Perhaps he was thinking that most, if not all of internet goods would arrive by airfreight, adding thousands of air miles per item – certainly the things I have bought were. Most goods Harvey Norman, etc, sell would be brought in by ship. Also, he may be thinking of the revenue to the government. I don’t say I agree with him, necessarily, but whatever he said would not be just a thought bubble and he doesn’t deserve thoughtless abuse.
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It wasn’t thoughtless. He wants to steal more of my money. I thought about it and don’t like that so he’s an idiot. If Julia or Tony say it, I’ll call them idiots too.
BTW: I would like to see some maths to support the air freight versus shipping environmental impact argument. Have you seen how much diesel is consumed even loading a ship by all the cranes and forklfts and big rigs delivering the containers and that’s before it even leaves port. Not to mention all the steel containers that need to be made to hold the stuff.
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As it happens, I worked in shipping/airfreight for a long time. It’s not just seafreight that needs containers. Airfreight also needs containers and I would be willing to bet they are not decades old like the seafreight containers. Cranes, (maybe smaller ones) forklifts and trucks are also used to load and distribute goods for airfreight. If it gets to and from a ship via truck it will also get to and from a plane by truck.
There are quite are quite a few facts in the following:
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/14/3/2386636.pdf
I don’t agree on GST in the first place and certainly voted against “Mr Never, Ever GST”, I just think the question is a bit of a vexed one. I try never to support the big guys and buy from smaller shops but there are people’s jobs involved. The big guys should get their act together and stop whining but what happens if retail goes down the tubes, along with manufacturing? I wish they never took manufacturing offshore but now they have and this is the mess we are left with, thanks to economic rationalists, both Liberal and Labor. My real point is I object to abuse of Bob Brown who is one of the brightest and most honest out there – if you check out his policies you will see – and, seriously, despite the evidence, I really don’t want to argue. Best wishes to you. I don’t think they will bring it in anyway, too difficult.
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Suck it Gerry!
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It it not ironic that Harvey Norman do not have a strong e strategy . I wonder if Gerry would have the same opinion if there strength was in on line marketing
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Gerry Harvey et al take us all for fools and I urge regular Australians to avoid spending hard earned money in their stores. The very people who already charge like wounded bulls (you may think you are buying an appliance but you are actually footing the bill for their incessant media ads & self promotion) would have Australians pay still more at the checkout by removing our right to choose where to shop and how much we pay, whether we spend our money overseas or with small local retailers here in Australia.
The ulterior motives behind this propaganda campaign need to be investigated urgently. Gerry Harvey & co are working the “foreign threat to local jobs” and “No GST, No Duty, No Fair” angle when:
- Online retail sales account for about 3% of all retail sales in Australia, and it is estimated that between 20% to half of these sales relate to overseas purchases, according to Bill Shorten.
- there is nothing preventing the protagonists from offering their goods GST free to overseas customers via an online presence themselves thus tapping into markets a millions of times more lucrative than our own (If I were a shareholder I would be asking why this wasn’t realised before 2011!)
- Hypothetical increases in imports from online shopping would hypothetically entail more job openings in customs, logistics and mail sectors, negating any losses on the retail frontline.
- Demanding a crackdown on individuals or businesses that import goods in increments just below the $1000 threshold is akin to having a crackdown on drivers who repeatedly travel at or just below 60km on our roads.
Consider also that the protagonists’ businesses pay a tiny amount of GST and duty on their imports compared to local small to medium retailers; the volume of their imports means the unit price is drastically lower ie: The unit price for Gerry Harvey’s TVs purchased by the 100,000 from China will be significantly less than Joe Blow pays when he buys 10 from the same Chinese manufacturer, so if Gerry pays $10 each for his tellies, Joe might pay $100, Gerry’s GST is $1 and Joe’s is $10 on the same telly, that’s not even including the differences in Duty and shipping. Hardly reason to be crying poor. The same goes for the clothing retailers, complaining about the 2c GST and 34c Duty on a $2 ladies top that retails for $59 is preposterous.
Australian consumers deserve an answer as to whether the target of this campaign is really overseas online retailers or.. whether this scaremongering is a clumsy attempt by the big retailers to shore up their own outdated business models at the expense of the lower prices being offered by local, small and more nimble local operators.
I am a small Australian retail business owner and I order from my overseas suppliers – quite legally – in increments below the $1000 GST & Duty Free threshold. Without this break, I and many other small, local Australian businesses would not be able to offer products or services to Australian customers at competitive prices. Sometimes this means I can not order exactly what I need and there can be a wait for some customers until I place another order because we are mindful of the implications of exceeding the duty free threshold. In my case at least, an increase in to the Duty Free threshold would have enabled me to build my business faster, meaning the Government would have recouped GST from our sales sooner.
Consider that when goods arrive in Australia at the moment and the total value of the goods exceeds $1000 (even by one cent), the 10% GST is applied not only to the goods value but to the cost of shipping. On top of this, Duty is applied, for clothing this can run to 17% and there are additional Customs handling fees on top of that if you are unable to clear the package through Customs personally. From past experience, where the exchange rate has shifted dramatically while we have had goods in transit, all of this can add around $500 to $1000.01 worth of goods which may have also cost $300 on top of that in postage. Naturally, these costs need to be passed on to the customer to make the shipment viable but there is a point at which the cost you need to recoup for the item means that it is overpriced or you offer it at the highest reasonable price but at a heavily reduced margin.
The minimum threshold for GST/Duty Free is sensibly already set at the point at which collection of these duties becomes worthwhile and outweighs the cost to the Federal Government to collect them. If it is scrapped or reduced the additional costs outlined in the previous paragraph will be tacked on to Australians’ personal online purchases coming in from overseas and also to the cost of goods Australians purchase from their small Australian local retailers. Some thought also has to be given to other businesses which rely on materials and supplies imported from overseas to provide services, such as but certainly not limited to the photography industry and beauty industry. All of this makes the cost of living for everyday Australians higher.
If Gerry and his crew have their way, small Australian retail businesses will gradually die off, the cost of services would be higher, the only viable option for other businesses would be to purchase their supplies through the protagonists’ stores and Australians will plunge further into a Coles/Woolworths type of world.
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thank you for giving us the small retailers point of view. Definitely food for thought
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“If Gerry and his crew have their way, small Australian retail businesses will gradually die off”
Somehow I think he doesn’t see this as a problem.
Thanks for the info.
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Exactly!
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Having had a spouse who worked for Harvey Norman for many many many years, with no overtime, even when they had to work back till 11 at night for stocktake (yes, pizza for dinner is a great reward instead of actually PAYING penalty rates), I am finding it hard to register any sympathy for Mr Harvey and his fellow giant retailers. For years they have sucked dry the blood of their employees and the small busineses they have routinely driven out of the market. The chickens have come home to roost and consumers will vote with their wallets – if the money goes overseas then so be it, but their are plenty of online Aussie retailers selling cheaper than the retail rate at major stores.
Quite frankly, most people know not to bother buying at RRP at major stores when they can buy cheeper online, or at sales, or even at K Mart and Big W.
So no, not a lot of sympathy, Mr Harvey is being a tad greedy methinks:(
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I am just wondering, reading through all these comments about myer,dj’s and HN, domayne, just if, someone who works in their marketing or HR departments might just be reading this post…….and then how they are feeling?
Even Mr Harvey himself, could not read these comments from a wide range of people in a wide range of locations talking about his stores, and then myer etc, and with taking away the price issues, the service provisions alone and people experiences cannot be ingnored, nor felt very good about by snr mgr teamed in these organizations. Wonder if these comments might just make there way to a board room or snr mgr meeting. They would if I was in any snr mgt position in any of these companies….
From what I read, even if they lowered prices, people have been treated soooo badly they this may not even allow them to return to these stores and continue to buy online anyhow.
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It would be a good idea wouldn’t it? I posted before reading earlier comments and was stunned by the bad experiences people have had, I have had many myself, and having worked in customer service complaints myself, I am a harsh judge! If I don’t get top service then they hear about it LOL. Poor serif, mark ups etc do seem to be a big factor in buying online, not just price
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Poor Gerry & friends, sobbing into their flutes of Verve, did they ever stop to think of the myriad of reasons Australians have been shopping online? We feel totally ripped off by the big stores here, they charge ridiculously high prices & hire staff who are either overworked or not motivated enough to actually serve customers. So the result is the 1000′s of us sitting in our PJ’s with a glass of wine in front of our computers.
That said I love my local family owned supermarket, love shopping at the strip on cute shops nearby, I will always get dressed and leave home for unique sensibly priced products and good friendly service.
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“sobbing into their flutes of verve” – ha ha
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I moved overseas when I was in my late teens, arriving back 5 years ago when I was 33. For the MAJORITY of that time I lived in Tokyo – often seen as one of the most expensive cities in the world. However, I was SHOCKED at the high prices when I returned to Australia. Many products and services are so much more expensive here than in Tokyo (and I lived in central Tokyo, not the suburbs). Makeup = 50% more; Internet in Japan = no download limits and MUCH cheaper and faster than in Australia..and it goes on and on. I love Australia. It’s the best culture in the world IMHO, but the shopping and services here suck – big time. I do about 90% of my shopping online, about 70% of that from abroad. I live in a globalised world. I am a citizen of this world…and I will seek out the cheapest price I can with the best service.
Gerry, evolve or die.
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I don’t want to pay GST on online items. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that someone in the Treasurer’s office will be firing off a quick memo to Wayne Swan along the lines of “Have you ever considered dipping your toe into this goldmine”, with a link to this article.
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Gerry Harvey, your commments have come back and bitten you on the arse big time.
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I think it comes down to the consumer not wanting to be ripped off anymore. For years, those big retailers could charge what they wanted because we lived in a bubble and we had no choice but to pay it. I used to work in retail; they would routinely mark something up by at least 300% before it went on the shelves. They forced smaller retailers out of business and they got used to their fat profit margins and don’t like that they will have to sacrifice them to compete. But this is a global economy and these dinosaurs (along with the ancientosaurs in the music and newspaper industries) need to realise that they have to adapt or die. The internet’s not going away. Even if you added the GST, it’s still a lot cheaper to buy online. They need to stop worrying about their shareholders and be more concerned about customers. We are not longer interested in paying double for something we can source elsewhere. And you certainly don’t get better service in big retail stores. My worst customer experience EVER was in Domayne – I’ll NEVER go back there.
Instead of whinging and crying poor, retailers, use your considerable buying power to get better supplier and rent deals, lobby the gov’t to reduce import duty, and look for other ways to reduce costs and start selling online. It’s not rocket science.
I shop around, online and in store. A few weeks ago, I was delighted to find the RayBans I wanted were cheaper in store than they were online, so I bought them. Lower your prices and you’ll get your customers back, it’s simple. It’s also worth noting that most of the online shopping I do is with Australian retailers who also have ‘bricks and mortar’ stores, so the Australian jobs thing is moot. If they can figure it out, I’m sure Gerry Harvey can too.
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I had crap service at a Domayne store also. I went in to get a $500 gift voucher as a wedding gift- it should have taken all of 2 minutes- I was the ONLY customer in the store & nobody would serve me. They all pretended not to notice I was there so I walked out & got the voucher from another store down the street. Gerry needs to sharpen up a bit, & look at what else is killing his business.
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Well Domayne is owned by Mrs Gerry Harvey after all.
I must say we bought most of our furniture and whitegoods through Domayne when we were setting up house 8 years ago and had pretty good service. Haven’t stepped inside a store for a few years though.
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Agee totally, very well expressed:)
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Where did you buy Raybans online? I looked around online but thought I would pay more for something I was relatively sure was authentic.
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Here’s what Gerry Harvey thought of online retailing in November 2008 – courtesy of the Smart Company website.
‘Harvey told SmartCompany this morning that he will not be making any radical changes to strategy and that his retail chain Harvey Norman will continue to perform well despite the downturn.
Despite a growing number of Australians purchasing goods over the internet, he says online retailing is “a complete waste of time”.
“I’ve got an online part of my business, but I definitely would not put more into it. That’d be a recipe for a disaster.”
“Online people do not make any money,” Harvey also told SmartCompany. “The whole world was conned with online retailing. People say I’m a dinosaur, and I’ve had people coming to me with sites and saying, ‘Oh, look at this, they have 10,000 or 20,000 hits!’ – but it’s a con, a complete con.”’
Quite the turnaround, don’t you think Mr Harvey?
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That’s hilarious.
Thanks for that!
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That’s priceless Tali!!!! Am still having a giggle with hubby xo
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My pleasure – to paraphrase Peter Griffin, Gerry Harvey and his “woe is me” whingefest really grinds my gears!
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I do a bit of both for my shopping- online grocery shopping is the best friend of any working mother- but I think a lot of it comes down to customer service, or lack of it, in Australian shops. Myer and D.J’s are the absolute worst. Sometimes I think you can get over being charged a little bit more if you have been helped, but when you are treated like an inconvenience to the shop assistant it really grates.
By the way I worked in retail for 10 years and I know it can be a really hard job sometimes and you can deal with some horrid people, but shop assistant these days just have no idea.
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Whenever I have a significant purchase to make, whether it be appliances or electronics or insurance, I always do my research online. I love being able to sit in the peace & quiet of my home looking up all the details, comparing brands and features, comparing prices.
As well as the convenience of not having to traipse all around the city to do this, I also don’t have to put up with a salesperson’s bullshit. When I look it up online, I can find out exactly what I want to know without having to put up with some kid’s ignorance about the product or, if s/he does give me an answer, wondering if it’s true. On a good website, I might even be able to find out whether my chosen store has it in stock.
So far I’ve then gone into my chosen retailer and ask for what I’ve decided on, but after all these great recommendations I’ll be more likely to buy online.
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I do this too, and occasionally go one step further and phone the store and ask them to put the products aside for me. That way I can just walk in, pick up what I need and get straight out again.
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My Aunt visited me from Toronto recently and one of the things we talked about ad nauseum was the huge discrepancy between Australian and US/Candian pricing.
In her 5 weeks here she bought very little in the way of clothing/makeup/accessories and spent most of her money of accommodation, eating out and domestic tourism. Her main complaint was that there was *virtually* nothing available here that she couldn’t get considerably cheaper back home or online. One particularly obvious difference came when we were browsing the MAC counter in David Jones. She was shocked that a lipstick cost $35AUD here yet only mere $17USD back home. Factoring in that our dollar has been at, above and just a little below parity, you can see how she was taken aback.
Now days I use department stores to try things on, match my colour and then buy online. I know it sounds like a terrible abuse of our local stores–which admittedly it is– but I’m sick of being ripped off. I even find that local designers match their pricing to the overinflated imported brands which seems a bit rich considering that in most other countries local items cost far less–as they should!!
Adding a GST to online shopping will only serve as a way for our greedy local stores to profit. Just because once upon a time it was expensive to import, and expensive to purchase overseas goods due to our poor performing dollar doesn’t mean that we are stupid enough to believe that that is still the case. They are making good money of the naivety of local shoppers and it’s a disgrace!
Lower your prices, provide proper customer service and don’t take us for idiots and MAYBE we will spend our money here. GST and all.
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Here we get several layers of taxation added to our purchase price and we are paid higher (perhaps even liveable) wages in this country than the USA, don’t know about Canada. The discrepancy sucks, but I’m prepared to put up with some of it if I know the shop assistant isn’t on the breadline. Gerry harvey’s full of crap anyway and now he’s just proved it, again.
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“I’m prepared to put up with some of it if I know the shop assistant isn’t on the breadline”
So agreed. I’m willing to forgive the wages component of higher prices, but I still don’t think the overall high prices here are justifiable, if that makes sense.
I’ve travelled a lot in the US and while it may be great to go into places like Sephora and enjoy the cheap prices when I step back outside and see the poverty all around I don’t feel it’s worth it.
For those interested in the topic the book ‘Nickel and Dimed’ is awesome, a journo in the states attempts to live on minimum wages jobs like waitressing and working at Wal Mart. Makes you want to happily pay a decent amount for things.
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Ditto! My aunt visited last month from LA and she said the exact same thing… It’s crazy.
Tourism Australia is doing this big push to get tourists here (I think the Oprah visit was fab) but we’re not really offering much by way of retail therapy.
Sure holidays aren’t for shopping alone but we shouldn’t be subjecting our tourists to daylight robbery and we the citizens shouldn’t be robbed either!
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All this talk about online shopping makes me want to go online shopping…
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Haha – me too!
So funny.. I actually just got two parcels in the mail today thanks to freez.com.au and surfstitch.com
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I’m waiting on something from BookDepository.
I’ve forgotten what I’ve ordered though, but I’m not checking my order confirmation emails, so I can have a surprise!
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Firstly, my husband works in retail, in an electrical/IT store, so everyone knows my position regarding this issue.
The issue for them is not GST on imported goods, but being competitive with online stores in general, especially those that are run overseas which do not have the costs of a ‘bricks and mortar’ store. These include the supposedly expendable costs such as; paying staff an income they can survive on, supporting the local community, staff training, etc.
What is frequently occurring are customers coming into the store to look at the product, use my husband’s time, knowledge and expertise and THEN going to buy it online. Many times from overseas, leaving them with no warranty and no back up. My argument is this; if you want all the benefits of going to a store and speaking to a person about the product then unfortunately, it is going to have to cost more.
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I’m the opposite – I do my research online (so I don’t have to put up with stupid, pushy and/or misleading salespeople), then go to the best/cheapest shop and buy what I’ve decided on.
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That’s great, and honestly I do that myself for lots of things. But many people aren’t that motivated. Also, my dear hubby has a fair bit of knowledge and has gotten a bit of a reputation locally as someone who can answer questions, this really helps his sales but can be frustrating when he spends a lot of time with a customer answering their questions and then they tell him they’re buying it off shore.
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Also, I hope you can find a store with some helpful, knowledgeable sales people in your area
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I reckon that if there were more people like your hubby in stores, they would not have problem. The reason I’m increasingly buying online is because the service, especially in big department stores, is often apalling.
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I sympathize, my hubby worked in IT/electrical retail for many years, and was also known locally for his expertise so I feel your pain. However, the major retailers put a huge mark up on their goods, and that is often why people shop online. Warranty is a huge issue though, but I am hoping that maybe this time Mr Harvey and co might take a real look at their businesses and consider reducing their profit. Don’t think it will happen though:(
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The reason I buy things online is because there is a wider range available to me. I can’t get half the books I’m after from a store (even borders or konikunya), or if they do have it, it’s out of stock and over priced.
I didn’t realize this, but after reading all these comments, I’m not the only one who has had such negative experiences at Harvey normal (hardly normals
). I went in to get a camera body, I shopped around, got a listof prices and the sales guy at Harvey Norman was so rude and condescending, I wish I made acomplaint then and there. I got the camera from another shop for a really good price, I went back to HN not even an hour later (coz I needed a filter that only they had), and the guy saw I bought the camera, and he was shocked at the price (300 cheaper). Then he started bagging out the people I got it from (another large retail store!)
Anyway, that’s only one of my experiences, and after a few more like that, I don’t go there again.
Online shopping is much nicer
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This is such a complex issue. I am a small online retailer in Australia. Reality is that online shopping is the way of the future so some of the big stores need to wake up to this and start competing online. Of course, as a small business owner this means more competition for us, but then we see our competition being online and offline. What customers want is convenience, good service and a fair price. Being a small business we are faced with other issues like cost of manufacturing in Australia vs overseas and having to compromise sometimes because we can’t compete with the big guys here or overseas! Yes no GSTon our products would be great, so no complaints if they scrapped GST but to impose a GTS on OS goods would be too hard. There are many issues to be raised and resolved and i am certainly interested to see where this leads!
Personally I buy both online and off and factors that influence my buying is often convenience, maybe something I can’t get in at my local shops and sometimes price. I feel that the future of retail is heading back to local or more specialised stores that offer something different and personalised service – wether on or off line!
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Have Gerry and his pals at Myer passed on the savings since the surge in the Aussie Dollar??? I think not. Why should they be the only ones to benefit? Since parity, I empathize with our tourist industry – but have absolutely NO sympathy for our retailers. They have always overcharged us and finally we have a convenient and cost effective alternative.
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I’m in electrical retail, what people don’t understand is that we are not over charging. We are buying products from Australian distributers that pay there staff a wage they can live on, they also have to pay for avertising, brouchers etc. This all cost money for the distributers, who unfortuantly pass this on to the retailer.
We as the retailer are stuck in the middle, we have to sell things at a higher rate because we buy them at a higher rate. If we are to drop our price the Australian distributers need to drop theres. They should be the ones that everyone is attacking.
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That’s very interesting, and possibly a good point. The thing I don’t understand is – if that’s the case, what’s the point of whinging about GST?
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Just checked my facts on this – and they are – those specials and mark downs we get in the shops – they’re courtesy of the supplier or manufacturer, NOT the retailer!! So next time you buy a can of dog food or cashmere jumper on special – thank the manufacturer – they’re the ones footing the bill. The Harvey Normans and Coles of the world want us to believe that it’s coming from them. Also, if a product doesn’t perform – I.e. Provide enough profits for the retailer, then they kick them out. All they care about is making money – not us, the consumer, or their suppliers – or in the case of them getting involved in overseas and cheaper manufacturing, Australian jobs!!
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It brings a tear to the eye that the poor billionaire is worried about jobs. Granted retail is a big employer in Australia, however the Australian manufacturing industry was also a huge employer before being sent OS because retailing giants like Gerry Harvey could get them to produce cheaper products and use cheaper labour in exchange for them buying higher volumes. So the irony and hypocrisy of the poor old billionaire is its ok for him to buy from Asia to save a buck, but when we want to do the same, its un-Australian and affecting peoples jobs. Pity he didn’t think about that years ago when our manufacturing industry went belly up, affecting thousands of jobs.
What goes around comes around Gerry.
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It wasn’t the retailer that forced manufacturing overseas, it was the consumer. The consumer wanted cheaper & cheaper pricing. Don’t blame the retail sector when it was your fault.
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So, Portmans (or Country road or whoever) dropped their prices when they moved manufacturing offshore, didn’t they? Didn’t they?
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Gotta love those cheaper prices, not
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Hmmm what about Bonds?. They havent lowered the prices since moving offshore and I know as they are the only undies my husband and oldest son will wear so I am well aware of the prices. Would they really say…well now that we have impoverished employees working in a sweatshop for a pittance with no annual leave, sick leave and super to pay, maybe we should lower our prices of those mens briefs to say $5 a pair instead of $12. Cheaper prices when made offshore? I dont think so.
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And the quality has gone down the gurgler too. The material is thinner and their stuff doesn’t last anywhere near as well as it used to. The Target and KMart house brand stuff is much better.
I was talking to the women’s underwear lady at KMart not long ago, and she said they were ordering less and less Bonds stuff because no-one was buying it. Why would you pay $40 for thin non fleecy Bonds trackies when you can get what you want for $15 on the next rack??? Same with their knickers and singlets.
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Very good point!!!! My, I wish Mr Harvey was having a good read of these posts but knowing his Luddite tendencies I don’t ink he will, what a shame:(
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Even if they started charging 10% GST given that you can save 30-40% on a lot of items online from overseas, I’m still going to be saving money by shopping online.
I wouldn’t buy anything from Harvey Norman anyway, they’re overpriced and the service is…oh hang on there is none.
JB Hi-Fi is about the only electronics store I will go into. Even though it’s crazy in there, I can always seem to get served fairly quickly and their prices are mostly reasonable.
Don’t even get me started on Myers and David Jones. I’ve almost given up shopping in either store. They have no range or rarely have in stock the item you want. Then you have to walk around the whole floor to find a staff member just to be able pay for your goods. As a mum with small kids who don’t enjoy shopping, I’d rather buy online, have it delivered than spend half an hour looking for someone to take my money.
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I haven’t been into Myer for ages but have had exactly the same experience at David Jones several times recently. I often find myself roaming the floor going from register to register to find someone to pay my money to. It’s as if they don’t want you to pay.
I shop online for most things now.
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Oh good – it’s not just me!
I always feel like an idiot at Myer, because when I go to pay there’s no-one ever around and I have to go looking!
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Shoplifters must love these stores. No staff around. I wonder if anyone is manning the security cameras?
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As an ex Myer employee I can say the staff were continually overworked and pressured to sign new contracts that required you to work three full weekends out of four because they don’t hire enough staff, and if you didn’t like it too bad. Forget seeing your family. The reason you can never find a staff member is because there aren’t any on roster and when you finially find someone they hate their job and that comes out in their service.
Don’t believe this bull about the big guys caring about their staff I just don’t buy it.
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I’m with you , I did years in retail & it is really hard work. These big retailers treat their staff like crap, you get bullied into working every weekend & have to cover for the other “team members” who got to trashed the night before to make it in. Staff are worked to death, I left feeling like on of those slaves rowing the Roman battleships, whipped until you die, thrown overboard & replace with another.
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Last time I tried clothes on at Myer there were several clothes tags lying on the floor, plus the box of an ipod cord or something. I thought maybe I should tell a sales assistant but couldn’t even find one!!
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Gerry doesn’t want to fork out for a second pair of shoes this year…. diddums.
I buy online from Australian stores. I am not always looking for cheaper, I am looking for convenience.
Gerry has been purchasing cheaper goods from overseas for years – why can’t consumers have a go as well ?
I have NEVER found customer service in Harvey Norman stores to be up to scratch – why don’t you do something about that little problem Gerry !!!???? You may attract some personal shoppers that way.
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Ha ha!
The only time I get service at Harvey Norman is when I’m standing near the ‘shopliftable’ items.
I once stood next to the fridge I wanted to buy, with over a grand burning a hole in my pocket and the staff kept pretending I wasn’t there…
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This topic is my go-to rant of the moment. I had a comment read out by Michael Rowland on ABC News Breakfast yesterday. Win (and swoon)!
We’ve recently begun doing lots more shopping online. We have two main reasons, money and my fiance’s recently developed allergic reactions to clothing stores. And no, before the smart comments start flooding in, he’s in no way allergic to shopping – he’s a shopaholic of the first order. The allergic reactions are real and debilitating. We think that they are from the chemicals sprayed on the clothes during the importation from overseas. By purchasing these we can get them delivered and I can wash them a few times before he wears them.
As far as money goes, why shouldn’t we save money by shopping online? Who is Gerry Harvey to tell us how to spend our post-tax income? Globalisation is here, he’s been using it to his advantage for years, and now it’s the consumer in charge.
When the revolution comes, Gerry and his kind will be the first up against the wall.
/rant
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The no GST doesn’t come into it for me. Even if I had to pay it for OS purchases, the prices of what I could buy online from OS still would be about 1/2 of what I can buy them here.
I live in a regional area and until fairly recently HN had a big monopoly in the electrical area. Now there are a few more stores and they have had to pick up their socks. The service is absolutely appalling and when I was looking at buying a new laptop, they tried to tell me that they had a great service where they would load all the programs on and have it ready to go – for an extra $600! Made it sound like there was no way anyone apart from a computer nerd would be able to do it. I then bought it online from Dell and had it out of the box and running within 10 minutes.
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I was recently employed as a sales consultant (or beauty advisor as they like to call it) at a high end cosmetics company in a major department store and my experience working for them was so terrible that I cannot justify buying from another cosmetics counter and contributing to a business that treats both their employees and customers so poorly. We were bullied on a regular basis by our counter manager and account executive, were constantly under extreme amounts of pressure to meet ridiculously high targets, forced to push products down customers’ throats whether they want them or not, forced to sit customers down in a chair so we can apply as many products on their face as we possibly can, which they would then be pressured into buying. It was the worst job I ever had and I just could not buy from a company such as this when I know what goes on backstage, e.g. once my counter manager screamed at me “I don’t care if the customer tells you they never use eye liner, if they’re buying mascara, you must sell them eye liner as well.” Wtf! I have since started buying my products on Strawberry.net and I love it. Better/cheaper prices, great service, quick delivery, no one forcing me to buy 50 products I don’t need. I can’t believe I didn’t discover it sooner, think of all the money I would have saved!
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I too love strawberry net. Having just moved to Launceston where there is one Myer (no staff of course) and no DJ’s the internet is my very best friend.
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*sigh* I had the same experience, Jane. I worked for a “Luxury” makeup brand while I was at uni and was constantly forced to up-sell to my clients and badger them to buy. I felt so guilty, especially when I would get an easily influenced customer or someone who was too shy or polite to say no and they walked away with junk they didn’t need. In the end I left and found another part time job as I couldn’t handle lying to people everyday. Even I, having worked there, LOATHE having to buy a new foundation or makeup item because I know how I will be treated.
This is a HUGE problem throughout many sectors of retail and until this idea of “sell sell sell RIGHT NOW!!!” instead of “let’s develop a loyal client base” dissolves, I will continue to shop online. And it’s cheaper!!!
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Here is how retail in Australia works:
Before Christmas I wanted to buy a book of which I read a review for on this website. Recommended Retail Price $16.95. I hoped online to see if it was available, Booktopia had the book for $15.25. As it was for Christmas (and it was a week and a half to go) I didn’t want to risk not receiving the book so I went to Angus and Robertson. Here the book was $19.95. When I questioned the sales assistant why the item wasn’t the recommended retail price of $16.95 she told me it was up to the franchise owner as to the price they put on individual books.
My main point is that whether you shop around on the internet or in physical stores prices vary. In this case it was $3 but in other cases it can be $50, $100.
I will say that another book I purchased from Angus and Robertson was $25 and the cheapest price I could find online was $39.95. So online isn’t always cheapest.
The bizarre thing is that Gerry Harvey who is the main whinger is probably the least affected as most people don’t buy large whitegoods and tvs online.
Myer is another big name to complain. Before Christmas I walked out of the store as I couldn’t get service and there were people in queues at every cash register waiting with no staff to help. Why do we put up with this?
For a long time in Australia we have been paying too much for goods. If you go to the US you can buy a new release book for $16.95 compared to $32.95 here. Our clothing is overpriced (considering most is made in sweatshops in China) and the quality is questionable.
If you get bad service online you don’t shop there again. If you get bad service at a shop it makes you think twice about going back.
Good service, quality items at a good price and I’m yours.
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I wish I could find it but I seem to remember about 2 yrs ago Gerry Harvey said there was no place for online retailing in Australia and it wouldn’t work.
Does anyone remember this?? I think I read it as a speech he gave.
I agree that this is Goliath pretending to be David – simply they haven’t moved with the times and now they think they are suffering. Get with the program I say – it is never too late!
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Sounds similar to what the head of IBM said in the 1970s – that there was a market for less than 10 personal computers across the world.
What’s the emoticon for facepalm?
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Hey Ruth,
I’ve just posted the quote you mention – sure makes for very interesting reading.
cheers!
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Why would I go to the major stores when I can get it cheaper online and without the vacant looks from sales staff when I ask if they can find me another size.
I would happily buy from them if they had online facilities. Australian retailers are way behind the times on this and now with the USD/AUD exchange rate so good, they are now feeling it. Too bad! We have been ripped off for too long.
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I think the parity with the USD has given them a real shake up and now people are realising just how much more expensive items are here. When the dollar was low a lot of people wouldn’t do the exhange rate calculations but now at around 1 for 1 they are much more aware. I think there are also a lot of people who never would have thought of shopping OS online are doing it now.
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I find it interesting that most of Australia’s major retailers don’t offer their goods to be purchased online. Myer, DJ’s, Harvey Norman, Bunnings, Mitre 10, Target, K-Mart. Target in the US have a great online store, so why not here? I’d definitely shop at all of these retailers if they had online stores, so until such time as they do, I’ll continue to buy from overseas or other local online retailers.
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And seeing as so many places in Australia are remote localities without access to these shops I think they are doing themselves out of so much business. I love Dymocks but loved them even more when they went online.
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The Big & some small retailers have formed monopolies. They have cut staff at the ‘coal face’ and made retail work very hard. Employ casual labour from 4 hours a week to sixty hours a week. Staff need to be available seven days a week- on call if they want to be rung for shifts. In the days when front line staff were treated with some dignity by management. They were able to make a living. worked Monday to Friday & half a day saturday morning. Those at the top were paid a fair renumeration. Now they the CEO’s are paid millions to cut staff where it matters in front line customer service.
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I came to Sydney 13 yrs ago from Canada and I was really disappointed at the prices, lack of choice and customer service. I have since learned to work my accent to get what I want – some service!! People think I am a tourist and are very polite. I shop online for all the above reasons and am aghast that large Aussie retailers think that they can push everyone again to get what they want. Aussies have been paying top dollar for everything for years. Anyone who has shopped in the US or Canada knows we are being ripped off. My last online purchase was a pair of jeans – $425 at Pink Zebra and $87 online (no shipping fee and arrived in 5 days – shopbop.com) Why would I buy jeans for $425?? The internet has changed everything. We are no longer mushrooms being kept in the dark and fed bullshit!
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I went to the post Chrissie sales this year, for the first time in ages. At the big dept stores in the city, there were nowhere near enough staff working on the cash registers. To make one purchase, I waited in a queue at the Myer counter for approx 15 mins to be served….I don’t think this is acceptable in terms of customer service. I could have bought the jeans online for probably less $$, and while I was waiting in the queue, I found myself wishing I had. So big retailers, if you want customers to shop and have a pleasant experience in your store environment, make sure there are enough people to service customer needs. I love online shopping because I don’t have to wait to be served.
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Did you also know that some retailers actually INCREASED their prices during the post-Christmas sales hoping that customers would just assume prices were cheaper because it was sale time? TRUE! They were caught out by people who had priced goods before Christmas and decided to wait for the post-Christmas sales to go in and buy but they were horrified to discover that the prices had actually gone UP, not down. It was reported in the news somewhere – can’t remember where I read it now. So the retailers get no sympathy from me at all.
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I went to Harris Scarf’s pre-Christmas sale and accidentally went a day before the sale actually began. The shirts I was buying went UP in price the day the sale started. I will never shop there again. That’s so deceptive.
In relation to Gerry, as said in the article, it’s a red herring issue driven out of self interest. Service at major stores is nothing short of appalling. I tried to buy an eReader at HN but ended up teaching the sales guy about them (which took ages!). Where did I do my research? On line, of course. With 2 young kids I’d rather pay higher prices online than stand in line, most days! Pick up your act retailers, and we’ll come back.
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And you know what else?? I’ve actually caught…wait for it….Harvey Norman doing EXACTLY this!
I priced a camera… a week later they had one of their “camera sales” on, and exactly the same camera was $80 MORE.
The sales assistant tried to tell me I was wrong, until I showed her her OWN business card, that she had written the camera details & price on the back for me previously. THEN she tried to tell me that she had been in the wrong…..yeah Gerry Harvey…no sympathy, or trust in you, your stores, or your staff – and THAT’s why you’ll lose customers.
I was lucky enough to know people in the states, so after that little confrontation, I took great delight in going home, logging onto Amzaon, and ordering the same camera (in a colour unavailable in HN), for $300 less; and delivery the next day to my friends house.
I swear, they think we’re a pack of numty’s, but yep, karma’s a biatch Gerry
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I had this happen with Jetstar fares: priced them on Wednesday, again on Thursday, started the booking Friday morning but when the time came to complete it their Friday Fare Frenzy email had been sent and the same fares on the same flights were $14 dearer each (I needed 5 return tickets). I didn’t book them. I’ll just wait until they’re not on sale
again or wait for Virgin Blue to offer a better fare.
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I absolutely LOVE internet shopping and I do 99% of my shopping online (incl groceries, alcohol, etc). 2 weeks before Christmas I went in search of an outdoor umbrella. I went to 4 different Mitre 10 stores, 3 different Bunnings stores and 1 The Outdoor Furniture Specialists store. I did not find the umbrella I was after, in the colour I wanted and in stock at ANY of these stores, even though they had all advertised it in their pre-Christmas catalogues. I then went online and found it in 3 minutes flat, in stock, ready to ship and it was cheaper than ANY of the stores I had visisted, including delivery! So I wasted a whole day travelling around on a hot day, kids in tow, looking for that bl**dy thing and the whole experience just confirmed why I do all my shopping online these days! Convenience, convenience, convenience! LOVE IT!
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I’ve starting shopping online more and more. For me it simply comes down to the price.
One example: YSL Touche Eclat sells in Myer and DJs for approx $89.00.
The last time I purchased this online at Chemist Wharehouse I paid $29.99!!. It isn’t available online at Chemist Wharehouse anymore but after a quick search I’ve found it at Strawberry Net for $44 AUD -still much cheaper than Myer or DJs!
http://au.strawberrynet.com/makeup/yves-saint-laurent/radiant-touch–touche-eclat—-2/30316/#DETAIL
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Oh thanks for that!
Just goes to show though that because I haven’t been near the YSL counter at Myer in ages I didn’t know.
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gerry and his gang still clinging to their old business models. History has shown that government intervention does not help and that innovation will always win. Small is the new big. Kogan will crush gerry!
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It’s the blatant hypocrisy that gets me.
These big guys crush smaller independent traders with their buying power and call it “competition”, they source product from overseas suppliers rather than local manufacturers because it’s cheaper and call it “competition”, but when the customer can find what they are looking for cheaper online it’s unfair!
Their position has nothing to do with jobs and everything to do with ridiculously greedy profit margins.
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I love online shopping – clothing, shoes, DVDs, books, furniture… Stuff online can be SO much cheaper than in stores. Plus, I don’t need to leave the house – score!
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I started internet shopping over the last few years, and I have slightly increased the amount of purchases I make online each year. The best thing about internet shopping is that you don’t have deal with the logistics of shopping malls which can be hideous, particularly in Sydney (driving to the mall in traffic, circling the carpark for ages, paying huge bucks for parking when you do get one, people everywhere, food courts that look and smell like a pig trough…yuk!)
I still like to try things on though so most of my clothes shopping is still done the old fashioned way. Having worked in retail myself for 7 years whilst at school and uni I would not like to see job losses, however I would like to see some real data backing up the claims made by the retailers before I would accept it as a real possibility and not just a scare campaign.
Businesses have had to evolve again and again throughout history to adapt to new things. I think retailers need to get their products online to stay relevant because internet shopping is here to stay.
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what is a good site for electronics like cameras?
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i just bought my daughter a camera from digidirect.com.au for Xmas – superfast delivery and the cheapest price
I don’t like camerastore.com.au – they failed to deliver in the stated time frame and then took weeks to refund my money when I cancelled the order.
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