President Obama, addresses the nation in a televised address.
By JAMILA RIZVI
Dear President Obama,
27 people are dead. And 20 of them are children.
You need to politicise this tragedy please. And you need to politicise it today.
When asked about the possibility of gun ownership reform on Friday, your press secretary said: “There is, I am sure, will be, rather, a day for discussion of the usual Washington policy debates, but I do not think today is that day.”
Respectfully Mr President, that is wrong. Today is EXACTLY the right time to be talking about gun control.
Why? Because those who died on Friday didn’t give their lives for anything, Mr President.
They had their lives taken from them.
They didn’t choose to die. They didn’t walk boldly into harms way for some great cause, to defend their country, to fight for a better life, to free others from oppression.
When you’re five-years-old you and you haven’t even had the chance to ask a grown up what ‘death’ means yet, you can’t give your life for anything. When you haven’t heard of the 2nd amendment and you don’t know about the so-called ‘right’ to bear arms and you don’t realise that ‘rights’ even exist… you can’t give your life for anything.
When yours is a world where mum, dad and teacher’s word is law and where the best thing that can happen is the sound of a Mr Whippy van playing Greensleeves and the worst, is tripping in the playground and scraping your knee… you can’t give your life for anything.
When you’re only five-years-old, like some of the children whose lives were brutally cut short today, you’re not cognitively capable of knowing whether or not you would want your death to be used as impetus for change or reform.
So you, Mr President, have to do that for them.
A mother comforts her son outside Newtown Elementary School, in Connecticut.
Because those children are dead. And we cannot bring them back. No matter how much we hope and pray that wishing could make it so. But we can honour their memory by making sure that more of their peers do not die in the same way.
You lead a country where it is incredibly difficult to gain traction in the community for reform on gun control. Studies show that even in towns and cities where massacres like this one take place, very few people shift their views as a result.
And that is why you have to act today, to get the traction you need from this tragedy to lead the charge for reform and to stop such senseless killing, with legally purchased weapons, from ever happening again.
This is politically scary. This is a risk. This will be incredibly difficult and you will face tremendous opposition and legal hurdles. You are just starting your second term in office and you must have meteoric hopes and dreams for what good you can do for your country in the four years ahead.
A fight on gun control was not part of that plan and politically, this fight will probably mean relinquishing possible gains in some of the others. It will mean giving up political capital, which could have been used to educate, to heal, to fight, to build and to improve lives.
But Mr President, it will be worth it. Because what could be more important that preventing the senseless and tragic murder of children?
Too many times in the hours since the shooting took place, we’ve heard the phrase ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’ bandied about. A statement used to end an argument, to cut it short, to use logic to shut down those who advocate for stricter gun control.
But Mr President, the world needs you to tell those who say that ‘people kill people’ – and tell them with that giant megaphone to which you, and you alone, have access to – that they are wrong.
Hand guns killed 144 people in Canada last year. They killed 58 people in Sweden. They killed 47 in Japan and 59 in Australia. Hand guns killed 9,369 people in the United States last year. And I’m sorry sir, but that happened on your watch.
Only one month ago, along with thousands in the United States and around the world, I teared up as I watched you take the stage to claim victory and promise that you would use your second term to change the fabric of American society.
Mr President, this is how you do that.
Please deliver on the ‘change’ that you made us all believe in and that you pledged to bring to your country and the world. Because right now 20 children are dead and I’m struggling to believe in very much at all.
Jamila
Comments
139 Comments so far
Well said. I cannot believe in it either. Next year both of my children will be at school, and I would hate living in a country where this could happen to them. I don’t even like the fact that my children’s school does drill in case something like this happens. I know it happens, but I hope it never happens in Australia. In fact, I hope it never happens anywhere, ever again.
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http://www.bradycampaign.org
I recommend following these guys on facebook – they are one of the strongest anti gun violence lobbyists in the US and they need all the backing they can get.
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There are no words to describe the tragedy of what happened last week and everyone feels terrible about it, but we all know how incredibly hard it is going to be for Obama to turn this law around. I think what he meant when he said “today isn’t that day” was that it was a day for everyone to unite in their sadness, regardless of where they stand on the gun issue, so let’s let it be. I have three children and I love the passion in this article, but somehow it’s presumptuous to assume you can counsel the US president about the hurdles he faces … It grates.
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I’m confused, in an earlier story you reported 28 dead. Which is correct?
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I thought I’d explained myself adequately “Anonymous” but perhaps not to you………I definitely wasn’t implying that “anyone in Newtown” could have prevented such a tragedy by reporting unusual behaviour – that’s just plain silly……….but IF we notice someone uttering threats towards the community I do believe we have a duty of care to tell the police, sadly this guy kept quiet so there was no warning for people to act on.
I asked two questions -
“would I reach for a gun if it was handy”(in the event of a home invasion) and “if the teachers were armed, would those children still be alive?”
These are two of the questions people are compelled to ask even more now.
When I was a teenager with an air rifle – I indeed might have reached for it, but not now……….I don’t have (and don’t intend to have) a firearm in the house.
The “million dollar question” about the teachers being armed (or shopkeepers & Mall staff or high schools, colleges or banks or anywhere that the public congregate) is a definite question of security in a country where “the right to bear arms” is a major feature of their Constitution – a document that was written in a dramatically different time in history.
I had already said that “multiple-shot guns should be withdrawn from sale”.
I believe that Howard’s gun laws were right & proper – particularly in Australia where we are still exceptionally shocked by these kinds of crimes; I don’t want to live in a country where they’re commonplace.
There’s got to be a major difference between a hardened criminal who’s armed and someone who’s mentally unstable and armed.
Of course sometimes they’re possibly both but when people shoot school children & teachers in their own school environment it would be rare to be in the course of some other more mainstream criminal activity.
Both my family’s and my mindset about firearms and the right to use them has changed dramatically and so it should.
We should all be clamouring for even tighter controls and doing what we can to help the Americans do the same.
I fear that this tragedy won’t be the last.
I also ask the question – “Does anyone think that realistic video games that glamorise violence & killing might act as a trigger for the real thing in people who are unstable ?”
‘Just a question, but I believe that it’s part of another conversation worth having.
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I thought I’d explained myself adequately “Anonymous” but perhaps not to you………I definitely wasn’t implying that “anyone in Newtown” could have prevented such a tragedy by reporting unusual behaviour – that’s just plain silly……….but IF we notice someone uttering threats towards the community I do believe we have a duty of care to tell the police, sadly this guy kept quiet so there was no warning for people to act on.
I asked two questions -
“would I reach for a gun if it was handy”(in the event of a home invasion) and “if the teachers were armed, would those children still be alive?”
These are two of the questions people are compelled to ask even more now.
When I was a teenager with an air rifle – I indeed might have reached for it, but not now……….I don’t have (and don’t intend to have) a firearm in the house.
The “million dollar question” about the teachers being armed (or shopkeepers & Mall staff or high schools or banks or anywhere that the public congregate) is a definite question of security in a country where “the right to bear arms” is a major feature of their Constitution – a document that was written in a dramatically different time in history.
I had already said that “multiple-shot guns should be withdrawn from sale”.
I believe that Howard’s gun laws were right & proper – particularly in Australia where we are still exceptionally shocked by these kinds of crimes; I don’t want to live in a country where they’re commonplace.
There’s got to be a major difference between a hardened criminal who’s armed and someone who’s mentally unstable and armed.
Of course sometimes they’re possibly both but when people shoot school children & teachers in their own school environment it would be rare to be in the course of some other more mainstream criminal activity.
Both my family’s and my mindset about firearms and the right to use them has changed dramatically and so it should.
We should all be clamouring for even tighter controls and doing what we can to help the Americans do the same.
I fear that this tragedy won’t be the last.
I also ask the question – “Does anyone think that realistic video games that glamorise violence & killing might act as a trigger for the real thing in people who are unstable ?”
‘Just a question, but I believe that it’s another conversation worth having.
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That last paragraph brought tears to my eyes, Jamila.
While I admittedly only scratch the surface with my knowledge of American politics etc, I watched both of Obama’s acceptance speeches and though to myself “Now things will be better. Here is an incredibly intelligent person, leading one of the most powerful countries in the world. This is going to be great. Things will change”.
And while I haven’t been studying the happenings of the USA with a microscope, I can’t name one big thing that Obama HAS changed yet. This could and should be it.
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Many Americans feel the same way you do, but in his defence he did introduce Obamacare, which basically means everyone will have access to healthcare, (like a watered down version of Medicare I’m led to believe, but at least its something.) Previously there was virtually no public health system, not even for maternity and if you got sick and couldn’t afford treatment or have full and complete insurance, you just died, often needlessly.
But it is also worth noting that it is virtually expected that a first term president won’t get much done, but in the second term he/she has nothing to lose politically so they can get a lot more through congress. Bill Clinton was tipped to do many wonderful things in terms of gun control and peace in the middle east and Africa in his second term before the impeachment hearings made him a national punch line. (What one woman can do to change the course of a nation hey Monica Lewinski!)
So in the context of a global financial crisis and in his first term, dramatically reducing overseas military commitments and introducing a health care system are not too shabby. Many Americans hoped he would be their saving grace and fix everything overnight, but that hasn’t happened yet. I really hope he makes gun control his platform – the cultural desire to exert power through the barrel of a gun, (or drone missile as the case may be) is doing so much damage to our world, not just to America.
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The USA is a very different place than Australia, they don’t see things as we do. Gun control will never ever happen, whether Obama leads the charge or not. The stupid right wing elitist wankers will run with it and Obama will be seen as a socialist who wants to take away their “rights”. It was/is the same with Obamas plan for universal health care. Here it is just a given, every ones right. Over there it is seen as a way for the government to control you, a way for Obama to turn America in to a social regime. “Why should I pay for someone elses healthcare?”. Its crazycakes but its how they see it.
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Yeah I got this from a conversation asking why restricting guns would be a bad thing: ” Because I do not want the government to have total control over me, because guns are an important survival tool–hunting may very well be essential to survival if the shit hits the fan. ”
No-one asked about why the shit might hit the fan or what is going to cause this to happen. I’m kind of interested, but don’t want to unleash the crazy.
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To take a different tack…I’m just wondering how much the gunman’s father was involved in his life. Andre Brievek’s father has said how regretful he is that he didn’t spend enough time with his son when he was growing up and I’m wondering if this is the case in this situation too. I’m sure the mother Nancy Lanza will be crucified because of giving her son access to guns but there is another parent responsible for his upbringing too. I hope the spotlight is shone is him equally as brightly.
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No I very much disagree. I have brothers who have done criminal and bad things and it is there responsibility alone. We have the same history and upbringing and my sister and I are fine.
When people have severe mental illnesses it is a disease. when people are different they will get teased. Maybe blame everone that teased him also?
People expect the best of family and don’t predict these things.
As for the dad and brother- leave them alone. They are the living relatives of someone who committed unthinkable things. They now have ruined lives and do not need the public speculating and blaming them.
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Oh and I know he himself said it’s not going to happen, but I’d really appreciate if you Aussie voters could somehow make this guy run for PM as an independent. We followed up our end to get Obama re-elected so just try to get Mr Turnbull into the race, ok?
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+100 to Malcolm’s comment.
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Best. Tweet. Ever.
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Umm, you can’t run for PM as an independent in Australia. Did you mean MP?
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Gun control doesn’t have to threaten the ‘right to bear arms’ but it certainly should crack down on the kinds of guns that people can access and how they store them. My father got into trouble twenty years ago because his gun for shooting animals was under his bed instead of in a securely locked cupboard. He ended up handing it in during the gun amnesty after Port Arthur because we moved to a smaller home and away from the large property where foxes stalked our chickens. There’s plenty that can be done…it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
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Since when has american politics taken the centre stage in Australian Culture? Wake up people! This was a terrible tragedy, but I am sick and tired of Australians under this belief that Australia is a state of the US? I am sick to death of hearing about American Politics or american constitution. Give it a break, free your mind and stop being brainwashed by what he media wants you to believe.
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I think you will find very, very, very few Australians want to be a state of the US. Like maybe none. Probably none.Maybe they are just terribly saddened by the needless death of another few dozen people, this time children. We were outraged when the Norway massacre happened too. And when it was brought to our attention that Joseph Kony kills and enslaves hundreds of children. We tend to be a compassionate lot. And if Americans can’t protect their children through adequate gun control like the rest of the developed world tries to, then that makes us angry on behalf of those children.
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As a US Citizen who has lived here since I was 11 (I’m now 25) I would like everyone to stop blaming ‘Americans’ for this issue… It’s such a closed minded thought. It isn’t my decision that guns are sold so freely there. Please start phrasing your blame differently.
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I agree!
I am an Australian citizen and have just become a US citizen (due to my marriage to my American husband, therefore making me a duel citizen).
I have grown to love America in many ways and find the “American bashing” sad. As with any country, there are good and there are not so good.
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If your 2nd citizenship is American; you are definitely a duel citizen!
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Thank you, Deanna. I have been really offended when reading the comments on this forum that blame ‘America’ for what has happened. This event was an absolute tragedy and America is heartbroken right now. This event was the work of evil, not of America. I am Canadian, but I have many American friends and family who do not support American gun laws. Even if they did, how can they anticipate such a tragedy? Canada has also suffered through similar events – should we blame all Canadians for them? I believe most American’s who own firearms do so responsibly.
I do believe there is a need for gun reform in the States; however, I do not feel it is appropriate to blast America in the same breath as this tragedy. People need time to mourn, and then discuss. Please have some sensitivity.
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“I would like everyone to stop blaming ‘Americans’ for this issue…”
I know not all Americans believe the same about guns, but the only people responsible for American gun laws are … Americans. Nobody else can change it.
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Completely agree. USA is my second home and I love it so much here. So many wonderful aspects and people. SInce leaving Australia, I do not miss the tall poppy syndrome and anywhere else bashing that Aussies love to indulge in. It’s such a boring and frustrating aspect of Australian culture.
I do believe gun control needn’t be all or nothing too. My husband (Also Aussie) has guns for hunting but not semi automatic weapons like those so often used in these attacks. We both believe no-one needs access to those types of weapons and that the laws should be tightened. He is a responsible gun owner who doesn’t deserved to be judged like so many of the people on here are doing. Having a gun doesn’t make you some sort of brainless redneck or psychopath.
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Hi Deanna. I can understand how you feel. Noone likes to be generalised or blamed but my feeling is that as a nation the USA and therefore Americans have made a decision. A decision that the right to bear arms is paramount and therefore as a nation they have to accept that this is one of the consequences of that decision. I am sure there are many Americans who are anti-gun or pro gun control, this is the time for them to stand and be counted and try and change the status quo or accept that this kind of tragedy will happen again.
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I really don’t think people actually blame Americans as a whole or believe all Americans have the same view about guns – and though the wording should prolly change – I think it stems from people recognising that guns have such an ingrained, societal-wide culture in America of which tragedies like this become a symptom.
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This is what makes me so angry…where are the voices of the anti-gun lobby in the US….AMERICA – have the balls to do what Australian PM John Howard did after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. Read below if you want to raise your voice, and LIKE if you think the US should change their gun laws.
The Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania, Australia, in 1996 transformed gun control legislation in Australia. 35 people were killed when a man opened fire on shop owners and tourists with two military style semi-automatic rifles. This mass killing at the notorious former convict prison at Port Arthur horrified the Australian public and had powerful political consequences.
The Port Arthur perpetrator said he bought his firearms from a gun dealer without holding the required firearms licence. The newly elected Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, immediately took control and forced each Australian State to adopt a proposal that included a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls. Surveys showed up to 85% of Australians supported gun control, but some farmers and sporting shooters strongly opposed the new laws.
The government planned a series of public meetings to explain the proposed changes. In the first meeting, on the advice of his security team, Howard wore a bullet-resistant vest, which was visible under his jacket. Some shooters applied to join the Liberal Party of Australia in an attempt to influence the government, but the Liberal Party barred them from membership and a court action by 500 shooters seeking admission to membership eventually failed in the Supreme Court of South Australia.
Because the Australian Constitution prevents the taking of property without just compensation the federal government introduced the Medicare Levy Amendment Act 1996 to raise the predicted cost of A$500 million through a one-off increase in the Medicare levy.
The gun buy-back scheme started on 1 October 1996 and concluded on 30 September 1997. The buyback purchased and destroyed more than 631,000 firearms, mostly semi-auto .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns.
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Sorry, forgot to include the poster I was referring to although I’m sure most of you have seen it by now anyway.
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I’m as anti-gun as you can get but that ad is super-old. Your first clue should be that it refers to “West Germany”, which has not existed for over 20 years.
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Oops, sorry! I just saw your other post and can see that you already knew all that!
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haha no worries! I just realised I made my own mistake with West Germany and I typed 12yrs ago instead of 22. So yeah, that poster is way out of date. Hopefully those numbers will be taken out of the article and the reference to this happening on Obama’s watch removed as the number of firearm homicides in the US is actually decreasing. Pretty impressed that a 20+ yo poster is still doing the rounds and being presented as fact though. Ad people today would love that longevity and believability!
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It’s the latest fb ‘chain mail’ it popped up in my feed due to someone I know or perhaps someone I know who knows someone who ‘liked’ it! So annoying..
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I thought the numbers Jamila listed about handgun deaths in other countries looked strangely familiar.They’re identical to the ones listed in a poster that has been making the rounds on Facebook since this tragedy occured.
While I admire the intent of those sharing the poster, there are two problems: 1. The organisation listed at the bottom hasn’t even existed for 11 years 2. West Germany obviously hasn’t been around for 12.
Also, these numbers are for total handgun deaths in 1999 or prior (whenever that organisation first created the poster); not just murders, but suicides, accidents, etc as well.
The CDC lists firearm homicides in the US for 2009 as 11,493 in a population of 306 million. In 1999 – again, the earliest the poster could have been made – it was 10,827 in a population of 273 million. So the murder rate with guns actually fell in those 10 years. I’d be curious to see how the other countries listed fared in the same time. And as always, almost 60% (57.4% in 2009) of all firearm deaths in the US are suicides. But just like Japan shows with their suicide epidemic yet strict gun laws, if someone wants to kill themselves they will regardless of the method. I’m still not sure how I feel about one’s right to own guns but the real issue that needs to be addressed is one of mental health. Not one of access.
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Surely the issue is the access people with mental health issues can have to serious firearms.
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I agree in that I’m not sure any parent should store guns at home like his mother did if their child displays lifelong behaviourial issues. But I assume that would be discrimination of some sort if she were denied the right to purchase one on that basis. I guess my view is how does a government check if someone’s mentally unwell before approving a gun licence? Adam Lanza wouldn’t have an ID card or whatever that said “Aspergers” “teachers and classmates declare him odd, antisocial and can’t form relationships” “doesn’t show emotion”, etc. Even in Australia we wouldn’t accept any kind of id system or database that contains our mental health history. So what’s the alternative? No guns at all is not a reality in America. The way people cling to the 2nd Amendment, although the NRA continues to spew bullshit interpretations of the original intent behind it, is not going to lessen. If they tried to do a voluntary hand-in like here, the % of guns turned in wouldn’t be anywhere close to the same. And those who did turn them would be law-abiding, mentally well citizens who don’t tend to commit mass murders anyway. The guy in Norway, the Columbine murderers and the Batman killer all shared the common traits of mental illness of some sort. James Holmes, the Batman guy, even tried to call his uni psych 9 minutes before he started to shoot. With Adam we don’t know much yet other than he was completely removed from society and the few statements that have been made so far. So I don’t know what the solution is. I guess banning semi-automatic weapons is a good start but what about all of the unregistered guns that will still exist? Just like drugs, if someone wants something and is willing to pay, they’ll be able to get it regardless of what the law says. I just think the issue is a lot more complicated in the US than those who are saying “ban all guns” like that’s a miracle fix to the problem are considering.
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I do actually think that a ban and amnesty would be a start. I think it’s a copout saying “Oh that’s the culture” (I know you don’t like it!). So change the culture. People often don’t like change, but they learn to live with it. I got told on a FB post that it’s not our business because we’re not American. Well, being a normal person who cares about other people, having to see another massacre where people are dying and people are losing their kids for no good reason, actually, it is my and everyone else’s business.
The government has the power to stop the gross misrepresentation of an archaic “right” so they should just get on with it. Just because it’s a right doesn’t make it right.
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Being told you or anyone else doesn’t have the right to an opinion if you’re not an American really offends me. I’ve actually lost two friends this weekend because I watched them say the same to others, but whatever. There is hypocricy however ie every day a stranger will question where I’m from when they hear my accent. I say Canada as I was born there. The usual response is something like “ah thank goodness, didn’t want to say American just in case you were offended”. So I’ll launch into my spiel asking how many US movies, songs, books, tv shows, clothing and makeup items they contribute money and time to. Once in awhile people will tell me they have no choice so then I have to whip out my list of Aussie tv stations (which are now showing more and more US docos), musicians, films and clothing companies they could be using instead. Don’t even get me started about using sites like Amazon and ebay.
I think that’s another reason Jamila’s use of those stats from that 20yo+ article pissed me off. I love Canada obviously and the US. I also love Australia. But how can you compare two Commonwealth countries, both of them with populations under 30 million… or maybe 10 when those numbers were from… with the US? One is an island nation, different styles of government, different methods of getting things accomplished, etc. Reading this article as beautifully written as it is, I could see why an American would say “wrong facts, author did no research, stfu if you’re not from here since you obviously have no clue”. We just need to be careful I think.
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I don’t think the size of the population thing is really that important – government infrastructure is there to deal with those numbers anyway, you know?
I haven’t seen that poster with West Germany, but I have seen a similar one (more up to date but I’m still dubious). I don’t think you can dismiss it though – there is still some truth to it, ie with the gun culture in the states, shitloads of people get killed.
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@ Kris – the poster I was referencing is below. If you didn’t see it consider yourself lucky. It’s still appearing on my FB feed so I’ve given up with it all. However I do think the size of the population is important. Can Mr Obama on “his watch” control what 350 million people do? No more than Ms Gillard can and she has less than 10x to deal with. If someone wants to kill, they will. Whether by gun or by arson like here in Australia like the Childers and Black Saturday happenings. I wish I could write an article about the Mental Health act Carter introduced and the money he set aside. And how Carter finally acknowledged that mental wellbeing was just important as physical and Medicare and Medicaid was amended to reflect that. And an extra $800million allocated to rectify the gaps in the system. But Reagan repealed it and then turned all mental health issues over to each state. So while gun homicides have fallen, mass murders have appeared out of nowhere. Same access… what has changed?
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If someone wants to kill, they will, but even you must agree that if the access to the weapons to do so is restricted, it makes it harder.
I know there are 10 times the people in the states, and it’d be big and cumbersome to implement, but it could be done. It just needs to BE done. And then get on with it.
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If the guns aren’t around, then their access is automatically lowered. I’m really sick of the “it’s not the guns fault! Mental Health!!”. Total scapegoating and avoiding the issue that if the guns aren’t in homes everywhere, those who feel the need (having been diagnosed or not with a mental illness) for whatever reason will have a much harder time doing so.
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“it’s not the guns fault! Mental Health!!”
I’ve always liked Eddie Izzard’s old take on the ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’ argument.
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Thanks Beans. One of the massive downsides to the internet is that we’re all double or triple sourcing from each other and so one website misprints information and suddenly every news outlet is trading in it. Really appreciate your point and statistics amended above. JR
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You were trying to get something out in a timely manner and stupid FB crap let you down. Just like everyone was reporting Ryan Lanza as the shooter for hours instead of Adam. I get it. And really I wonder why the first person started to float that poster at all yesterday. It just makes our points seem irrelevant when we’re using crappy facts. The only thing that scared me was the reach people have on social media platforms. People frame their views off of this stuff – myself included sometimes. But I knew you’d fix it when you realised. You always have my support and I truly appreciate what you contribute. xo
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People concerned about guncontrol in this country tmight want to have look at the national party and Bob catas partys policies on the issue. They are slowly eroding gun control laws in qld and want to go national.
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No one here has mentioned mental health.If someone is crazy,they will do anything to get a gun and shoot people.Do you think criminals care about the law?
I am totally against guns,and do not understand people who enjoy them.Never will.
That man was sick in the head and needed to be locked up for life.But obviously his illness was ignored,or he could not get the help he needed because the mental health system is shocking over there.
They have to stop selling guns everywhere,and people should not be able to carry them around so freely.
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I agree with you in that this is a mental health issue. And I think directly linked to the suicide statistics of 4 out of every 5 suicides being men in the US. If this continues to be ignored it can only get worse. I think if 4 out of 5 suicides were women it would be getting far more attention. We will reap what we sow. I can’t imagine what it would be like for the parents. So sad.
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‘Anonymous’ I hope you don’t make it into politics. So compassionate – not!
People with a mental illness are unwell, not criminals that should be “locked up for life”.
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Yes, people with mental illness are unwell but time after time it has been demonstrated that they are also extremely dangerous to other members of society. I think for this reason they do need to be kept in a secure environment.
Mental health systems need to be improved in Austalia, that’s for sure. I can’t profess to know much about the US’s mental health system, but I’m guessing its pretty poor, like the rest of their health system.
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How bout you don’t group all people with mental illness together as dangerous and in need of confinement. The mental health system in the US needs reform, but theres no need to talk about mental health in this light, it doesn’t help.
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Pretty sure ‘locking them up for life’ is as bad as not doing anything, but yes, it’s pathetic how little mental health is being mentioned. “He was a monster” etc. and yes, but he was also obviously extremely, extremely sick, surrounded by people and institutions and governments who completely and utterly failed him.
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When we went to Wal-Mart in Los Angeles a few years ago we were shocked to see, along the back wall of this “Target – style, Mom & Pop” store a huge display of guns & weapons…..the Americans just seemed to take it for granted that that was normal & okay.
When I was growing up my father & brother were members of a gun club and were often winning trophies for their skill.
I even had my own air rifle and became an “expert” at shooting stuff off of my swing seats………that all seemed normal to me too.
My family had an old-school right-wing mindset that didn’t actually seem political at all – but things have changed for them and me.
Politics seem different now, meaner and with much more division.
The ultra-right wing in all countries carry that “right to bear arms” sensibility with pride and it’s these folk who’s minds need changing.
Like some rappers “in search for a ghetto”, these people are in search of a “Wild West” that no longer exists.
If someone broke into my home I’d want the right to stop them and protect my family with whatever force I deemed necessary at the time……..in that split second .
Would I reach for a gun if it was handy ?
If that school had been supplied with guns would those children still be alive ?
Single-shot guns will always be sold but those multiple-shot guns simply must be removed from public sale.
Every community with an agenda contains it’s lunatic fringe.
Every school has it’s “troubled children” and I bet that every teacher is aware of at least one child who is likely to turn to violence.
In this case, it would seem that someone’s child connected to this school had grown up with mental issues that perhaps went unnoticed & reported.
What I’m saying is that we ALL need to be vigilant and mention to doctors, teachers, in fact anyone who has the power to turn a situation around, behaviour we observe to be “not quite right”.
We have a duty of care to our communities to speak up in time to prevent such tragedies.
Some Australians may think that this is “dobbing in” but I don’t think any of us can afford to just stand by and let stuff happen.
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Caz you are implying that anyone in Newtown USA could have put a stop to this, that they could have seen it coming. People there are saying the opposite, that they did not see Adam Lanza as capable of this. It is not as simple as you make out.
Quite simply, if he did not have guns, he could not have killed as many people as he did, maybe not any. Your statement that if someone broke into your home, you would want to be able to defend yourself is the reason why they still have guns in America! How often does that really happen over there, that people shoot intruders in their homes?
If there were no guns, there would be no massacres. You could hardly kill 27 people in 20 minutes with a knife or other weapon, save maybe explosives. The most disturbing thing about all this is that ‘shooting up a school’ has become the standard fix-all for social outcasts in America. It is surprisingly easy for them to do it. The only way to stop this is to remove their access to guns, like the government has put in measures about ingredients to make explosives. Bells go off when someone is trying to make one, it should be the same with killing weapons like guns.
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Well said. My heart aches for everyone impacted by this tragedy and others like it.
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How many times do we hear Americans say that they live in the best country in the world? Pffffft. I roll my eyes wvery time I hear it. Obviously they’re not looking at themselves very hard.
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Hi Janelle,
You should watch the first scene of ‘Newsroom’ on youtube. The lead character is speaking at a college panel and refuses to answer the question “Why is USA the best country in the world?”. After they keep pushing him, he finally says “we are not” and argues back with this impassioned speech on why they need to do better.
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Just watched it. Brilliant. All of us need to look at ourselves.
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Jamila, I just want to point out that it isnt only a political discussion, with your left side of politics being the good guys as you always seem to infer. In Australia, there was no gun law reform under labor after both the Hoddle St and Queen St massacres, yet it was Howard that finally did something after Port Arthur. It should not be about politics. It should be about common sense and good people making a difference to society, whatever side of politics they comes from.
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I’ve just pointed out in a discussion on FB to a yank saying it’s a “typical liberal knee jerk reaction” that JWH did it after Port Arthur and he is arguably the most conservative PM we’ve ever had, and a great friend and supporter of Dubya to boot.
Apparently tightening gun laws would mean the “govt having total control over [me]“. Ummm….
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Hey Kris!
to the US, though, our right is still their left. Meaning if we slotted the Australian Liberal party into the US political spectrum they’d certainly fall to the left – the Democrats spectrum. So, the person you’re chatting to on FB is using their own frame of political reference, not ours. If that makes sense?
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Dude, the same person tried to use the Childers backpacker hostel fire and resulting deaths as PROOOOOOF that nutters will always do stuff. Or something. She had no idea about JWH or his political leanings. She also linked Dunblane as a counter to Poms saying the same thing as us about it. Dunblane (which was a school massacre in 1996) directly influenced the powers that be to change their gun laws. It has worked. Childers (only seeing that it was brought up – I suspect she googled “mass killings Australia” or similar) brought about stricter building laws with regards to fire safety. Port Arthur brought about stricter gun laws that have worked. They just refuse to acknowledge it.
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Not disagreeing at all, Kris. Just highlighting that to Republicans our Liberal party seems to be on the left of their political graph!
And…erm…linking Childers to gun deaths is just plain weird.
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You are so right…as someone who voted for Obama, I hope he doesn’t disappoint. Those comparison numbers are staggering.
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Ok so it is difficult to overturn constitutional laws and the second amendment and make it illegal to carry or own a weapon. So why not make ammunition illegal? Or at least really really hard to get. Is there a reason that can’t be done?
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Great way to get the required result! Brilliant thinking. you’d “suppose/assume” it be quicker to pass thru too.
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For me, I think today needs to be about the victims. Not gun control. Not political points. But a day of respect and mourning. There are families who are only just finding out that their children are dead. And again – their CHILDREN are dead. This is the worst thing they will live through. I’d really prefer for our prayers and energy to be focused towards helping them get through the next few days. They are the ones that need it.
I’m not saying I dont want changes made. Frankly, I wish I could go to the US to spit on Charlton Heston ‘s grave, the moron. But, regardless. This is a much more complex issue. America has a constitution. It is not like adjusting a simple law – it is a massive undertaking. Obama can’t perform miracles. It will take a huge amount of work and political lobbying to get a change made. I hope it happens. But I also hope that people realise the effort this will take and not slag off the President if he doesn’t do something tomorrow.
Finally – I kept thinking of a quote from Hunger Games today – it makes me feel more hopeful for the future:
Tomorrow will be more hopeful than this awful piece of time we call today.
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It is funny you chose that particular quote because as soon as you mentioned The Hunger Games, the first thing I thought of was “may the odds be ever in your favour”… unfortunately while gun crimes are what they are in the US, people will always be praying that the odds stay in their favour.
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You know the President doesn’t have the power to change the Constitution, right? You…you know, looked that up? Right?
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The right to bear arms doesn’t mean there can’t be limits on gun ownership.
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I know nothing about US constitutional law but does the President have the power to propose an amendment that would then need to be ratified by Congress or the States or by the judiciary? It would be helpful if someone explained the process as I believe it is quite convoluted? I know in Australia we have historically used the referendum process to make positive constitutional amendments – but it would be interesting to know how changes can be made in the US.
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er, there used to be law in the US banning assault weapons. That law lapsed without being reinstated years ago. This was under the very same constitution you refer to. You looked that up? Right?
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Hi ‘Er…’
Thanks for the comment. I went to law school, I know how difficult constitutional change is to achieve both here and in the States. I don’t think at any point I suggested it would be an easy process, nor did I suggest that the President could achieve it alone. In fact, that’s exactly why I talked about the political capital that would need to be expended to achieve any kind of change.
The point is though, that Obama does have the power to lead a national conversation around change, whether that be constitutional or otherwise (for example, gun buybacks like Australia engaged in in 1996 or laws that limit the trade of weapons across state borders, or limit the type of weapon that can be carried in a public place, without banning arms all together so as to breach the 2nd Amendment.)
Have a great weekend.
Jamila
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In reply to the idea that “Guns don’t kill, people do”, I’d like to suggest that another item of news today shows that guns do kill. it hasn’t been as widely reported, but there was another attack at a primary school today which had more than 20 victims. It was in China. The difference was that the attacker used a knife, not a gun. So instead of his victims being murdered, though they were injured, all the victims survived.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/14/chinese-children-knife-primary-school
Gun control doesn’t stop people doing crazy things, but it does help to minimise the impact.
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If Obama had politicised this tragedy, he would have been rightly condemned for it. It’s horrifying, it’s heart breaking and gut wrenching – but it’s not a point scoring event – and sadly, it would turn into just that if they made this a time to discuss changing laws.
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God I hope something about America’s gun laws are done. I said that when the Batman movie massacre happened, and now 5 months later- children and teachers at a school!! Some American friends of friends go on about how they need to have a gun for ‘self defence’. Well if guns were banned then you wouldn’t have to worry would you?
Out of interest I looked up gun laws in australia. Apparently you need a ‘genuine reason’ to carry a firearm and self defence isn’t accepted, thank god. I’m so grateful we live in a country where gun crime is relatively low.
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I dont get it…one of the most developed/democratic counties and they wont give universal health care and now they are holding onto some archaic law about the right to bear arms???
i thank God that John Howard changed our laws to prevent this from happening and I pray for the innocent Americans who have died in the past and pray for their futures
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Shame on America and their constitutional right!
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As tragic as this event is, I think people need to comprehend what has happened. It is a tough issue, and I think the president needs to make sense of it all somehow and think about what strategies to implement. How the community can support this. In rushing this, the options might not be thought through and the decisions might not establish an good reform. I don’t think he should leave it too long – because yes some traction is needed from the emotional response to this – but I think a few days is needed to think this through.
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Yes, the root cause is mental illness, not guns…however, a mentally ill person with a gun can do a hell of a lot more damage than a mentally ill person without a gun.
Society and gun technology has moved on so much since the signing of the American constitution. Let an old relic of a policy go and save precious, innocent lives.
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I didn’t understand Obama’s comments today in the same way…haven’t read the comments below yet so dunno if it’s just me:
1. The president repeatedly said that they need to do something about gun control very quickly (can’t remember his exact words but to me it sounded like he was talking about reform)
2. When he mentioned that this shouldn’t be politicised, i think he meant that all parties, for or against gun control, should unite to improve the situation (i.e. gun lobbyists and pro-gun parties should put their political ideals aside).
No?
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Agree.
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Please never, ever say Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Sure you need the person to pull the trigger, but if these people are not allowed to possess such weapons no one would be murdered. Australia’s gun laws ensure that this is the case, and I believe the US should look to us and other countries for guidance.
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There is still gun ownership in Australia, but very controlled, you have to be a club member and guns have to be kept securely. This control would obviously benefit American gun owners, but more than this, Australian society took notice of the massacre and took a mature approach to gun ownership and use, which is what America needs to move towards, a change in culture sounding gun ownership.
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You say if people arnt allowed to posses firearms no one would be murdered. Yet no one is allowed to murder people yet they still do. Only law abiding citizens follows laws an rules…not the criminals. So if guns were illegal we wouldn’t have murderers…. maybe we should make methamphetamine illegal too….oh wait
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To Anonymous @ 10:24pm…
What your argument does not consider is that the person who committed this horrific crime was not a criminal. He was a young mentally ill man – as has been the case with many of the recent mass murders. He could well have been described as a ‘law abiding citizen’ for all we know.
Control over the types of firearms that can be possessed by civilians IS the answer. It’s clearly a lot easier to take an automatic gun from your mother than to source and buy one on the ‘black’ market.
No civilian has a lawful reason to possess a military or police issue weapon.
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There is a song I wrote 2 years ago that we made a demo of. I don’t normally put up a demo on the internet, but this is just so relevant for me today, that I have to post it.
https://soundcloud.com/thevagrants/just-kill-me-final-master-01
I also wrote a massive “Note” on my FB about the slaughter of the kids in Conn. I come from the USA, and I will never understand the lack of gun control. It is all about $$$$$$
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Some serious rockin’ you’ve got going on there!
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Ani difranco naiked it ten years ago with her lyrics to “to the teeth”:
“school kids keep trying to teach us what guns are all about, confuse liberty with weaponry and watch your kids act it out. And every year now like christmas some kid gets tge milkfed suburban blues, reaches for the available arsenal and saunters off to make tge news”
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The women waiting for news of her sister – has anyone read if she is alright? I know lots of babes died today but I can’t even think about that yet – I need to first know if this poor woman got to greet her obviously beloved sister.
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Hi SamGW, I’ve been thinking about her all weekend.
I just read that tragically, her name is Jillian Soto and her sister is Victoria Soto – the teacher that was killed when she hid her class in the cupboard.
The gunman came into the room and she told him “my class is in the gym”.
She was killed. But every one of the children in her class survived.
Heartbreaking.
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Never gonna happen, it’s enshrined in the Constitution and anyway, guns dont kill people, people kill people. The US needs to pursue a complete culture change in attitude towards guns and gun ownership. Canada has a higher per capita gun ownership rate and far lower incidence of crime, as does Switzerland, which has the highest concentration of gun ownership in the world. The difference perhaps is the culture that surrounds ownership and use; Canadians have a stronger hunting culture, the Swiss do military service, and so both countries peoples have a healther, maturer relationship with the gun.
Maybe what needs to happen is a change in the culture around mental health attitutes and access to mental health services in the US (not that I know anything about it), as it could be assumed that most or all of the people that carry out these shootings have mental health problems which have either gone undaignosed or untreated. The use of talking therapies are far more effective in the long term than medication therapy, which is so often the predominant treatment offered by US physicians (from my understanding).
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Yes, but we need to look at who actually possesses the guns, not the amount of people that do.
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Listening to Downer just now who quoted the following stats:
1. Proportionally, the US has 5x as many murders committed as a result of hand held guns
2. 67% of all murders in the US are a result of hand held guns. In Australia, it’s 11%.
People may kill people, but they are more likely to do be successful if there are semi and/or automatic guns within reach.
Mental health may need to be addressed – completely agree with you there – but taking away the guns ensures immediate safety for all.
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Just 24hrs ago Michigan Republicans passed a bill making it legal to carry a gun into a school or daycare centre.
Insanity.
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If they made that law in Newtown maybe there would’ve been someone to stop the attacker or at least save more lives…
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When has that ever happened? People are not police, by the time they can stop the gunman with their own gun, they’re usually dead. I can’t remember the statistic, but i read something on a news site today saying this is always the argument back, but there is no evidence of anyone ever being remotely able to stop any of the massacres.
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How can people think it’s better to be able to take a gun into a childcare centre/school/shop/workplace etc than to live in a country where you’re not scared someone in one of those places will have a gun!
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Yeah, or end up shooting more innocent people while trying to “stop the attacker”.
The amount of people who could actually be relied upon to use a firearm to stop something like this would be very small.
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Or maybe they would have ended up with a situation where there were half a dozen armed people shooting at each other because in the confusion no one knows who the bad guy is. And then the police arrive…..
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Or maybe it would have resulted in a shootout, which would have resulted in an even greater loss of life.
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Ashley- I can’t disagree with you more on this. What if, as you say other people on site had weapons, say the principle had a hand gun, and shot the offender, say then that somebody else (the cleaner say) came in and saw dead bodies and the principle holding a gun and not knowing what has happened, shot the principle. My point is – where does it end.
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Sorry, Ashley. But that argument doesn’t stand up. Check this out:
“…we set out to track mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years. We identified and analyzed 61 of them, and one striking pattern in the data is this: In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun. Moreover, we found that the rate of mass shootings has increased in recent years—at a time when America has been flooded with millions of additional firearms and a barrage of new laws has made it easier than ever to carry them in public. And in recent rampages in which armed civilians attempted to intervene, they not only failed to stop the shooter but also were gravely wounded or killed.”
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation
More people carrying weapons does not appear to be the answer.
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Sorry Carol but there is a massive flaw in that study rendering it completely useless – which there usually is when someone without statistical training tries to undetake one and it isn’t peer-reviewed: Out of the 61 shootings Mother Jones investigated, they didn’t take into consideration how many people in each instance (whether victims or bystanders) were even armed to begin with. It’s all well and good to say “more people carrying weapons does not appear to be the answer” but you, and Mother Jones, haven’t considered the fact that in many cases there would be not one person who had a gun besides the killer. Of course no one stopped a killer with a gun if no one else had a gun at all. Not saying I agree with Ashley’s statement as I’m still undecided but this is exactly why studies should be left to the professionals.
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I agree, the study is problematic, considering it isn’t peer-reviewed. It may be anecdotal evidence, but it is still evidence and is much more solid than the old “if more people were carrying, the never would have happened” argument. Part of the problem is that quantitative studies regarding recent mass shoots are few and far between. Or at least they were while I was writing my honours thesis two years ago (Cue panicked topic change!).
There was a study conducted in 2002 that was published in the journal of Homicide Studies that found that there was no support for the hypothesis that more concealed weapons would decrease mass shootings, or reduce casualty numbers. You can read the study here: http://hsx.sagepub.com/content/6/4/271.short?rss=1&ssource=mfc
I’m not suggesting a blanket ban on guns, by any means. The mere suggestion horrified even my far-left, peace-loving, American Democrat fiancee when I told him yesterday that there was no way we would ever be moving back to the States to raise our future children until such a ban was implemented. It’s just not feasible. The problem is that these mass shootings take place using high-powered semi-automatic weapons. Your average gun-carrying, law-abiding American’s handgun will never be able to compete. Never. There was an off-duty, armed police officer in the cinema in Colorado. He was powerless against the weapons used, even with his training.
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I understand where you’re coming from and I guess I fall somewhere between what you said to your fiance and his reaction. When I returned home this past winter I was shaken the first time I saw a civilian concealed carrying as I’d forgotten about it after being away for a few years. I watched that guy like a hawk although he looked more like Santa than a psychopath. And I agree that the average person can’t compete with someone hellbent on mass murder and armed to the eyeballs. Nor would many even act if they were armed in that situation. I just get frustrated when tragedies like this happen in whichever country the discussions tend to get waylaid by erroneous and/or weak ‘facts’ and social media. There are reasons the changes some people believe will fix everything don’t just happen in the US and as you seem to understand it’s much more complex than merely asking Obama to ban all guns.
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Ironically the killers mother was up to her eyeballs in weapons but that didn’t save her did it?
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Well said. All my American friends are saying how they NEED guns and who regulation won’t fix anything … um, WHAT?
It worked here. we fixed it. They need to wake up and see how needless, senseless, wrong and destructive the current lack of gun control is.
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Far from reigning in gun ownership President Obama has actually expanded the rights of gun owners. There are 4 states in the US where you don’t even need a permit to buy a gun & 12 other states are trying to introduce the same legislation. The NRA are the most powerful lobby group in the US, in the recent election they donated $3million to the Republicans, on the other hand the anti gun lobby donated $2000 to the democrats. Money talks.
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I’m with you – massive action needs to happen and today is the day. In fact a few months ago with the Batman premiere shootings, actually… how far back should we go? The citizens of the USofA have been shooting each other for centuries.
God Bless Australia for doing the right thing after Martin Bryant.
I’m sorry for the innocent lives lost – I still haven’t see any pics or read anything apart from this article and as a mother of two darling little people who are at Kindy and in year 1, I won’t be. It’s too tragic and from here, all I can do is offer up cyber love and hugs from afar.
Rest peacefully little people and their carers – let’s hope your lives are not lost in vain, however if we use past as a reference, they will be.
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I am sorry. This just makes me so mad.
Even now there will be people in America who will argue for more liberal gun laws. Just recently the NRA called for people to be able to bring guns to work.
Even in the face of this there will be Americans who refuse to join the dots. Who say they need guns to protect themselves …… from the gun toting madmen.
It’s a sickness in the national psyche and it just makes me shake my head in disbelief.
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This just blows my mind.
I remember reading a post on a (largely US-based) pregnancy forum where this woman was talking about how grateful she was to live in a country that gave her the right to possess a gun so she could protect herself in unsafe areas. What about being grateful for living in a country where you don’t need to carry a gun to the shops for protection? These people just don’t make sense!
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What a horrible, horrible tragedy.
All of my thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims.
Australia might not be perfect or without it’s fair share of tragedy, and I don’t say this to lessen the pain of those who have been struck by tragedy in our country, but for a country as wealthy as us I am amazed how we don’t have huge issues surronding gun control, terrorism etc. Of course these things have occured, but so much less frequently then in countries like America.
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Possibly because we all sat up and paid attention at our first mass shooting. Martin Bryant and Port Arthur is a cautionary tale to our national psyche. Shootings like Columbine, Virginia Tech and this one are mere footnotes in America – something unpleasant that happened ‘awhile’ ago.
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Martin Bryant was hardly our first. Hoddle St & QueenSt are just 2 that spring to mind, so we didnt change things the first time either.
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I’m sure when the founding fathers drafted the Constitution back in 1787, enshrining the right to bear arms, the guns they had in mind were the bolt-action, single bullet shotguns of the day – not semi-automatic Glock pistols.
Following the logic of “its our constitutional right” means the right to bear arms should only apply to weapons that were around when the constitution was written.
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Unfortunately the people in NRA are not listening
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That may be so, but surely the mums, dads, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents and friends reeling after this latest tragedy must outnumber the NRA. Where are these people fighting to make their communities and their children safer?
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Couldn’t agree with you more!!
Obama would have to fight hard to change the gun laws and will get plenty of opposition, but he has just been re-elected so time is on his side. It is NOW or never!!
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This is an absolute tragedy, and waking to the news this morning just broke my heart.
But the problem is that the current gun laws are a part of the constitution. For the laws to change, there would need to be a referendum. And this would fail to change anything. There is a vast majority of American citizens that, while still sympathetic to victims of these massacres, do not want their right to bear arms taken away. Simple as that. And it sucks.
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Today is not the day for this discussion. Yesterday was. Last month was. Last year was. One of the many other times that a terrible tragedy like this has taken place was. How many times does this have to happen for action to be taken?
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