The story was talked about on Channel 9 this morning…
By REBECCA SPARROW
At 7.11am today, my buttons were pushed in a big, big way. Because I watched a young woman excuse allegations of sexual harassment by a group of young men as “boys will be boys”.
More on that in a second.
I was sitting in my pyjamas throwing food to the zoo animals feeding my children with one eye on the Today Show this morning when Karl Stefanovic introduced yet another piece on the ‘toxic culture’ in the Australian swim team who represented us at the London Olympics last year.
I’m not a huge sporting fan but I’ve been following this story with interest.
Much of the focus in recent days has been on the male freestyle relay team made up of James Magnussen, James Roberts, Cameron McEvoy, Matt Targett, Eamon Sullivan and Tommaso D’Orsogna.
There have been accusations of favouritism, poor sportsmanship, arrogance and a general toxic culture and lack of team spirit much of which has been attributed to these men. In the past 24 hours there’s also been details of a night-time rampage when a number of the men mixed the prescription drug Stillnox (banned by the AOC) with Red Bull and spent a night in the Manchester training camp harrassing female swimmer Jade Neilsen and her roommate.
They referred to this incident as “team bonding”.
Here’s how it was reported this morning on News.com.au:
Today’s Daily Telegraph. That’s Jade Neilson on the cover.
Neilsen and her roommate at the team staging camp in Manchester were awoken by late night phone calls, door knocking and disruptive behaviour by James Magnussen, James Roberts and Cameron McEvoy.
“I will confirm that they were being inappropriate and it was towards (name withheld) and I,” Neilsen said.
“I won’t specifically say (what happened). It has sort of already come out pretty much what they’ve done.
“All I can say is their behaviour was completely inappropriate, it was so inappropriate it was not funny. That is all I can really say about that.”
It’s not my job to play judge and jury and I will be interested to watch these young men front a media conference today to tell their side of the story.
But it was the interview Karl Stefanovic did this morning with London Olympic team member Cate Campbell which strangled my heart.
Campbell – a swimmer – was asked for her take on the situation. Had she heard about the incident (of the male swimmers harassing two female swimmers) at the time? What did she think?
Cate Campbell
The answers she gave were clearly scripted by a PR team (She hadn’t heard anything about it. Oh wait, yes she had but she refused to give credence to rumours. She applauded the men for being willing to come forward and take ownership blah blah blah. Campbell seemed at pains to be seen to be on Team Men’s Relay rather than giving any support to her fellow female swimmers. As though she didn’t want the ‘cool group’ to dislike her. That’s fine, I suppose. The jury is still out.)
But it was the next part of the interview that left me stunned.
Were the allegations of harassment to be true, Campbell explained away the behaviour – of the men’s team harassing two female swimmers, of barging into their rooms in their underwear, lying on their beds and (I am making an assumption here: making inappropriate comments or actions towards the female swimmers) as “boys will be boys”.
BOYS WILL BE BOYS.
Cate Campbell is not on trial. But to say I’m disappointed to hear a young woman excuse allegations of sexual harassment by a group of men as “boys will be boys” makes my skin crawl. Young men who are physically imposing. Young men who had a God-like, untouchable status in that team.
Boys will be boys.
Cate, sexual harassment is sexual harassment. It’s not ‘a bit of fun’ or ‘boys will be boys’. It’s not ‘just what guys do when they’ve had too much to drink’ (or indeed mixed Stillnox with Red Bull). It’s not up to women to ‘get a sense of humour’ or to ‘lighten up.
It’s sexual harassment. It’s illegal. And it’s inexcusable.
And if any or all of the male relay swim team were involved in such behaviour – they should be sacked. They should lose their taxpayer funded scholarships at the Australian Institute of Sport.
And what today’s interview taught me is this: we have a long way to go in teaching young male sports stars how to behave appropriately around women. But equally, we have a long way to go into teaching women about what constitutes sexual harassment.
What do you think of the men’s actions? What do you think of Cate Campbell’s comments?
Comments
195 Comments so far
This should have been solved in house I can’t stand the way we have to parade people out in public humiliate,embarrass and make them feel small. We are very good at doing this take Chrissie Swan for example. What if one of these young people can’t live with themselves after this public dragging over the coals. Next we will be bringing back the stocks. I did notice Dawn Fraser putting her two cents in maybe she should remember how she felt and how she was treated after she stole the flag.
loading...
Terribly sad Bec that you can use the words ” sexual harrassment ” so lightly. Boys in their jocks running around and being stupid and knocking on doors. Would you in your heart use the same terminology if it were females running around in their bras and knickers down hallways knocking on the boys doors. I sincerely doubt it.
loading...
Sexual Harassment involves making unwanted sexual advances and remarks. I believe I previously read they were trying to lay in bed with one of the girls? If it was unwanted and it seems like it was as they complained to the coach then it IS sexual harassment! Bec has made no mistake with her terminology.
If a male teammate had a similar complaint to the coach regarding a similar incident with a female team member that too would be sexual harassment.
There is no sexism here, this is what happened. We don’t need to help make excuses for them, they’re public figures as well as athletes and they need to take responsibility for their actions as all Australians do whether they’re athletes or not.
Look at football in Australia at the moment: the teams are holding their players to a high standard of behavior on and off the field. It is part of the job and it’s a step in the right direction for Australian sport – swimming should be no exception!
loading...
I posted yesterday pointing this out, but it hasn’t appeared.
Cate Campbell wasn’t on the Today show to comment on this. She was on there during the weather crosses to promote the Uncle Toby’s swimming program for country kids. She was put on the spot about it, and she may not have heard about it happening, she may have been flustered because she didn’t know what had actually been going on because she had been, you know, doing the Uncle Toby’s thing, and not taking part in any of it.
loading...
If Slutwalk was all about saying you cannot judge a womans intent from what she is wearing, why then is it automatically assumed to be sexual intent because a bunch of boys is running around being idiots in their undies. Does the same assumption not get applied the other way Bec?
loading...
WB,
I do, honestly, get your point and I have been thinking quite a bit about your comments over the weekend. Have I joined dots that don’t exist? Possibly.
But you have a situation here where there is a clear imbalance of power both physically and in terms of “role” within the team.
You have a situation where the female swimmers themselves have said the men “barged” (their words) into their room. That they acted inappropriately. That the women felt “frightened”, “intimidated” and “distressed”.
There is the issue of them ringing up female rooms asking what the girls were wearing.
To me – and the definition of sexual harassment that I would go by – this sit in the sexual harassment category.
As I said below, if the guys were running up and down the hallways and just knocking on doors and being tools — that’s different. But I think there’s something else here. And I don’t think the female swimmers would use the words frightened and distressed lightly. They are also in the awkward position of not wanting to get these males in more trouble than they already are.
Am I taking all of this too seriously? POssibly. But maybe you are taking it too lightly? And maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Unless more facts come out – we won’t know. But certainly lies are being told since James Magnussen and Emily Seebohm are contradicting each other at the moment.
loading...
Thanks Bec, I respect your view and polite way of debating it. I have always appreciated the way you conduct yourself on here, and the way you actually listen to another point of view. I too have listened to yours, and agree that the truth is probably in the middle somewhere, but we need to be careful throwing around sexual allegations without proof, because of the massive stigma such allegations now (rightfully) carry.
loading...
You could be right Bec, the truth may well be somewhere in the middle. I have to say though, I am baffled by the immediate assumption of many that what the girls say is true and that they are pure and innocent in all of this. My gut feeling is that their agenda was to spark outrage from the start because they were embarrassed at the bad press the team was getting. They aren’t stupid and we shouldn’t assume they couldn’t possibly be adding to or embellishing the story to make themselves look better. We know the boys can’t defend themselves because it is almost certain they wouldn’t be able to remember what they did that night. It has come out that the girls who complained were hospitalised during the games for excessive alcohol consumption. I don’t think they were saints at all during the games and I personally think you might well be surprised by the outcome of this; I think more will come out and I don’t believe sexual harrassment will be the term we will be using to describe the behaviour of either gender.
loading...
This article gives more details about how they men’s relay team behaved towards Emily Sebohm and also that they frightened Jade Neilsen.
http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/16212629/seebohm-says-dirty-half-dozen-are-lying-about-their-bed-time/
loading...
I watched the whole interview yesterday and Jade kept referring to it as annoying because it disturbed her sleep. In one comment she made it clear that she did not feel threatened, just annoyed. I would not class this as sexual harassment and feel she was making sure it didn’t come across this way.
I agree with the many comments on here pointing out that we can’t jump to such a serious conclusion of sexual harassment. Yes they were acting like idiots but the arrogance and drug use is more the problem here.
loading...
What interview? Or are you talking about Kate Campbell?
Jade has used the words “frightened” in the article below.
http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/16212629/seebohm-says-dirty-half-dozen-are-lying-about-their-bed-time/
loading...
Bec, I agree entirely with you. I am 50 and 30 years ago I looked forward to the future when this sort of incident would be rare and dealt with severely. But I am saddened to see some men still think they can act in an inappropriate manner and young women who obviously feel they have little power to stop it. Having participated in the Billion Rising campaign on Feb 14th I wonder if anything will change for women around the world when prominent athletes show us such a bad example of male behavior.
loading...
For gods sake, enough with the ‘all men are horrible creatures that treat women bad and all women are victims as a result’ rubbish. I have seen enough wild, inappropriate, selfish, disturbing behaviour from young people to last a lifetime…from males and females in equal measure. I get sick of these types of gender generalisations that permeate around here.
loading...
I Agree. This article is over exaggerated. Boys knock on a girls door and it becomes sexual assault. My lord .
loading...
Dee!!
But that’s just not true. The allegations from the girls include:
- The men rang their rooms asking them “What are you wearing.”
- They barged into Jade Neilsen’s room and behaved inappropriately. In Jade’s complaint she said she was distressed and frightened. At one point they were in their underwear. These guys are older, physically imposing and were the ‘cool kids’ in the Olympic swim team. It’s not exactly a stretch to say this could fall under the sexual harassment banner.
It’s not simply about boys knocking on girls’ doors, if the female swimmers are to be believed.
If it were simply about these guys acting like idiots and ringing rooms and hanging up and knocking on doors and running off — I wouldn’t have written this post.
I guess it depends if you believe the version given by the men’s relay team. Or the disputed version by the female swimmers.
loading...
To suggest male sportsmen need to learn to treat women is like suggesting that female models should learn to treat men appropriately. In general, male sportspeople have the highest profile, so get more scrutiny and get reported more. This does not mean they behave worse. Just like anyone that pays attention to the reporting of supermodel misbehaviour would no doubt conclude that only female models misbehave. But no, it is just a function of profile.
loading...
Suggesting that their behaviour is no worse than the men in general, is suggesting that men in our society have little regard for women. When a woman says no, whatever the reason, even to have the man leave her room, a true gentleman respects that and leaves. Men are generally larger and stronger than women. This is often used by men to harass and bully women. I like to think it isn’t actually a true representation of men.
loading...
WB, I don’t understand what you are arguing here??
1. The misbehaviour of female models is in no way the same as that of the male swim team. They have high profiles, yes, they were probably under the influence, yes, but did they walk into the rooms of male models and harass them or make them feel intimidated? Are they on tax payer funded scholarships? What exactly is the point of this comparison?
2. This isn’t a problem of too much scrutiny, its a problem of too little! The incident was reported by the girls and the officials did nothing.
3. Are you seriously arguing that this is just coming out because men have a higher profile than women in sport? So its got nothing to do with the girls having every right to have their complaints heard.
Just to understand, the double standards when it comes to coverage of male and female sporting achievements doesn’t bother you, just the negative press – that’s the bit that’s obviously skewed…Riiiiiiight.
loading...
Wounded Bull, where did anyone say ALL men are horrible, etc etc?
And that you say you see certain behaviour from “young people” indicates that you are ageist.
And gee whiz, I see bad behaviour from all sorts of people. It would be lazy and unfair of me to stereotype them, though
loading...
Wow there are a lot of commentators that need to go back to school. Just because Neilsen didn’t use the term Sexual Harassment doesn’t mean it wasn’t. Sexual Harrassment is any form of UNWELCOMED verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature and there is a obviously a range of behaviour that is covered by this.
If you can’t get your heads around the definition then imagine it was your daughter on a training camp..
Some six foot, grown men who are under the influence and in their underwear are being loud and disruptive in the middle of the night. They climb onto her bed and behave “so inappropriately it was not funny”. She says “I was intimidated” and reports it to the authorities and nothing is done about it…
And if you really think this is just male bashing then replace the daughter with your son and the grown men with grown women.. and it would STILL be Sexual Harassment.
It’s unacceptable and would warrant official investigations and disciplinary actions in any other “workplace” so why when it comes to the treatment of Sports Stars in this country, is the system allowed to be different?
loading...
so just walking around in underwear such that you can be seen by anyone other than a partner or person of the same sex is sexual harassment now is it, regardless of whether you actually do oanything sexual in the process. God, I didnt realised how harassed I was watching Slut Walk.
loading...
WB,
I’ve read your comments – You want things to be fair, you want facts, no stereotyping against your gender etc etc. I get it. We ALL get it. But seriously…
“so just walking around in underwear such that you can be seen by anyone other than a partner or person of the same sex is sexual harassment now is it”
Firstly, so the lads were just taking a pleasant stroll up and down the corridors then????
Secondly, is that even what I said? I don’t think its Bec that got “1 + 1 to make 67″. When you’re done championing your No-Double-Standards crusade how about you actually read any of the comments from the female swimmers that were present that night – what occurred and how they felt.
I’m not arguing with you on boys vs girls, male swimmers vs slutwalk? etc..there is no gender stereotyping here. Did they behave inappropriately? Yes. Did the girls feel intimidated and harassed? Yes. Did the authorities act? No. Has there been appropriate disciplinary action, if any? No.
So here’s what I’m asking – As an ordinary citizen, who has every right to expect a higher lever of professionalism from our tax payer funded sports representatives and governing bodies, I would like to know why.
loading...
Oh I’m sorry, did scantily clad women from a Slut walk campaign walk into your bedroom while you were on a training camp? Or call you at 11:30 at night to ask what you were wearing?
Wounded Bull, I admire your zeal in sticking up for the boys, but this comment is ridiculous, even for you.
loading...
WB you are arguing for the wrong reasons. The boys have come out and apologised, the coach has, the parents have chimed in as have the other swimmers on the team. No one is denying this so I don’t understand why you have taken so strongly to defend and insist it’s “OK”. I actually take offence to a lot of the comments you have written and I am not saying you intend it that way but this is the reality. I feel sad that this is up for debate by both men and women in this day and age. As other people on this site have said, I think this goes deeper for you and I hope you’re able to find what you need to heal at some point.
loading...
To me it’s more a case of ‘the immature shall behave immaturely’. Gender has nothing to do with whether or not you behave like a tool. Poor choice of words by Cate, that’s all.
loading...
So, at what age should we expect people to stop behaving immaturely? And should we raise the legal age for drinking, driving, or sexual activity to 30?
Sorry, but if 19 year olds don’t even know what appropriate sexual behaviour is, then what hope do we have for the future of the human race?
And yes I have a problem with School Zone speed limits in front of senior high schools – if these students don’t know when it’s safe to cross the road, then I don’t want them driving on them, either!
loading...
Nicki, Sadly, I know some 30+ year olds who would behave as immaturely. Male and female. Fortunately, the vast majority of people act appropriately.
loading...
Lighten up I’m 53 and both male and female in my work place do a bit of ribbing of one another. Lets stick to the facts and the media should stop all the sensational commentary. The fact of the matter is the swim team performed badly at the Olympics and that there was a bit of horse play. Lets not get carried away with the whole thing, lets be disappointed and let these hard working sports people get back to training and making up for the disappointment. We sometimes put standards on high profile people that we wouldn’t on Joe average and that is unfair.
loading...
No disrespect Bec but I really disagree with your article and i am quite disappointed with your shallow view. If this was a group of females annoying a couple of blokes would there be uproar and the word sexual harrassment thrown around . I sincerely doubt it.
loading...
Natasha
There may be double standards when it comes to sexual harassment but they don’t come from me. If the reverse were true and high-profile female athletes were harassing junior males members of the team I would feel exactly the same way.
Please note that I did say “if the allegations are true” then I feel that the excuse ‘boys will be boys is unacceptable’. I stand by that.
loading...
I’ll also point out that just this morning it has been revealed that when they prank called Emily Seebohm’s room at 11-11.30pm the men asked her, “What are you wearing?”
loading...
I will also point out that the prank knocked their door. That is NOT sexual harrassment.
loading...
Reminds me of the case with the CEO of David jones Mark McManus and a co worker who claimed sexual harrassment when he dismissed her after having his way with her. Revenge is nasty when a bitter woman gets hurt .
loading...
In reading some of the comments, as Rebecca has said there is still along way to go, to teach both women and men regarding what is appropriate behavior.
I wonder why the swimmers, who should worry about what goes into their body, would put Stillnox into their bodies.
It feels like there was a dismissal of the women swimmers concern, that there was favoritism occurring and that the men got too cocky.
loading...
Because they’ve been doing it for years to help them sleep, and it has evolved into taking it with energy drinks for a bender, obviously because they can’t have alcohol the day before a race. They shouldn’t do what they did, and it doesn’t excuse poor behaviour – but the boys have discussed why stilnox is used. In that kind of environment, running on adrenaline, being unable to sleep is a very common thing and lack of sleep affects performance on the day more than anything else, so it is actually quite legitimate for them to take sleeping pills. Just not in the manner that the boys did.
I actually think, they’ve discovered over time that they can get a kick out of stilnox that wont get them into trouble and then they go to bed at a reasonable hour because it knocks them out. On this ocassion they disrupted female team mates and didn’t get away with it. The female team mates have gone public because they (the boys) are arrogant dicks and the swim team was getting a bad name and they were embarrassed. They never started off with any sexual allegations – my inkling is that those girls are are adding to the story to spark more outrage because people were saying get over it, the team just isn’t as good anymore and it has nothing to do with their behaviour at the Olympics (which is quite true): They also aren’t silly, they know they can add whatever they like to the story now because the boys are just sticking to their agreed story. And the reason they are doing that is because they were on stilnox and can’t clearly remember the events; they know they will look worse if they change their story.
I am sure the girls have every right to be annoyed by their behaviour, feel harrassed and I hope they get to the bottom of it during the investigation – if there was anything sexual in it then I hope it is dealt with appropriately. But none of this is the reason why Australia performed poorly in London. The reason for that is just that they aren’t as good as other countries any more because we don’t spend as much on training the younger ones as they do, we keep focusing on expired and washed up swimmers who are past the use by date.
But that’s just my two cents worth!
loading...
Sorry Rebecca Sparrow I disagree with the article 100%.. You cannot use the word sexual harrassment lightly. Imagine if that was your son in years to come and that word was affiliated with him. Perhaps tone it down a little. NOT one person has used the word sexual harrassment, so it is in your best interests not to either.
loading...
Sorry Dee, I disagree with you.
Just because many women are uneducated as to what constitutes sexual harassment doesn’t mean it wasn’t sexual harassment.
When older male swim team members who are physically imposing and have a God-like status on the team “barge” into a younger female member’s room in their underwear and lie on her bed. And the younger female goes on record to say she felt intimidated and distressed — then that to me is going to sit in the sexual harassment box.
I think there’s been a cover up and I think this is potentially an incredibly serious issue once again with male sports star and how they behave around younger team members (male and female).
All the facts are yet to come out – you’re right. But the press conference today was full of holes.
And if I have to choose between believing Jade Nielsen or James Magnussen – then my money is on Jade Nielsen.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this topic.
loading...
Yes I agree many women are not educated on sexual harrassment that is why they should not use this word lightly.
loading...
Dee, do YOU have a son? I suspect you might.
So, do you expect your hypothetical son to be treated with respect? And do you expect your fellow human beings to be mindful of others?
Just because we spend squillions of taxpayers dollars on these blokes – who really don’t make a meaningful contribution in return just because of their sporting “ability”, I think it’s fair that they should act like responsible adults in return. Otherwise they don’t deserve funding
loading...
A problem only with males. You know what Bec, males and females of this age bracket all do stupid things. It is just that anything a pissed or stoned woman does to a bloke is never ever reported. Men learn pretty early to not play the victim, so women largely get away with whatever behaviour they care to dish out while under the influence. The result is sites like this that subsequently assume that, because men dont complain, it is only boys that misbehave. It’s rubbish. Any trip into town on a Friday or sat night demonstrates the appalling behaviour of both sexes at times.
loading...
Yes I agree anon. We are always protecting the females. Never the males.
loading...
I think using the old ‘boys will be boys’ line is protecting and excusing these men. We hear it all the time. As the mother of 2 young men and a daughter I don’t accept this – not when they were younger and not now! I expected the same respectful behaviour from all my children. Personally I think people are belittling their boys when the use the ‘boys will be boys cliche, boys can be so much better than that!
loading...
Surely using the term ‘boys will be boys’ is protecting and excusing these fellows? I actually expect much more from my sons. I would’t demean them with lower standards/expectations than I have for my daughter!
loading...
They admitted to taking Stilnox and acting like idiots, but all denied entering anyone’s room. There have been no accusations of sexual harassment whatsoever. This article implies that just because they were being idiots, they were also obviously sexually harassing people, and that it just wrong.
loading...
I would agree with this comment. Someone must come forward and make a claim that sexual harrassment occurred. This has to be followed up by the police. Charges have to be laid and the matter bought before a judge/jury. If proven then…..what follows will follow.
All that have definitely be proven so far is that these guys were acting like bloody idiots and to my knowledge of the law acting like an idiot doesn’t equate to sexual harrassment. So I would point the finger until I hear further information.
loading...
There is no suggestion there was any form of sexual harassment.
What is inexcusable is that a bunch elite athletes, who are where they are thanks to millions of taxpayer dollars, were abusing drugs the night before a race IN WHICH THEY BOMBED.
There are many other athletes who would kill for the sort of funding these spoilt, arrogant, self-entitled show ponies get. And they work ten times harder and are way more professional.
loading...
Not too impressed with this article sorry to say. No one has mentioned sexual harassment , rather the words ‘ inappropriate’ . This could be taken as slander
loading...
First up, I’m impressed by Jade Neilson’s courage. It takes a brave person to speak up within a macho sporting culture. And unfortunately it shows that even when you do speak up, action might not necessarily take place! Swimming is mostly individual, however, the Olympics is a team event (and there is no greater honour or responsibility than when competing for your country). Therefore there would be an unspoken consensus that you must not upset the apple cart or go against the grain. Jade has said she didn’t want this made public and that if her coaches had acted upon her complaint in Manchester, there wouldn’t have been any need to go public.
Secondly, I watched the press conference and someone seems to be lying here. The ‘boys’ stated categorically that they all went to bed at 10.30pm and they did not go in anyone’s rooms. This is refuted by Jade Neilson’s statements (and Emily Seebohn stated she received a prank call much later in the night). The ‘boys’ stated that it was just childish behaviour. But that is seriously glossing over Jade’s account of events: http://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sport/james-magnussen-and-mens-4x100m-relay-teammates-to-be-named-and-shamed/story-fndukor0-1226583088353
Remember that these athletes train for years to get to that stage of their careers (and swimming is just following that black line, over and over!) and to have someone disrupt their preparation in the last week, on the night before some had time trials, is incredibly selfish. As this behaviour was carried out by the most well paid and celebrated males on the swim team, that’s even more disappointing. A definite misuse of power seems to have taken place.
loading...
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and YES!
loading...
100% agree. Two words: cover up.
loading...
Just because you know something no one else in the universe seems to know about or even be suggesting. Just because you know.
loading...
WB, just because a young female swimmer isn’t educated about what constitutes sexual harassment doesn’t mean it wasn’t sexual harassment!
And there are clearly lies being told on one of the sides. The male team members say they entered no-one’s room and were in bed by 10.30pm.
Two female swimmers are on record to say this is not true.
Obviously all the facts are yet to be revealed but I truly believe this is potentially a case of sexual harassment and Swimming Australia needs to educate the team on what is and isn’t appropriate behaviour.
loading...
They were on stilnox. I wonder if they actually don’t have any recollection on their behaviour after they ‘went to bed’? Clearly they engaged in inappropriate, disruptive and possibly frightening behaviour, but neither Jade or the other girl have implied sexual harrassment. Whatsoever. Harrassment of itself definitely, but it wasn’t sexual. They were not in their underwear, one was the second time they knocked on the door but wasn’t let in the room. They should have been disciplined absolutely, but I think most people have issues with the sexual harrassment label in this article.
loading...
Lucinda, Emily Seebohm was just on the TV news saying she received a prank call from one of the men’s relay members late at night (which woke her up) with him asking her “what are you wearing?” How is that not sexual harrassment?
loading...
Why has she only just now said this? It could be just as easily made up. I’ll let the investigation decide what actually happened, it is not for me to decide, or you.
loading...
We don’t know that she has just now said this. She may have told this level of detail to her coaches in her original complaint. Anyway, if you’ll let the investigation decide, why did you say this above: “Harrassment of itself definitely, but it wasn’t sexual.” Seems your mind is already made up.
loading...
How do you know it’s not just a joke between friends, and she said “Piss off idiot, you’re wasted and I’m asleep”?
Random phone calls and visits where nothing has actually happened are part and parcel of co-ed dorm life. It happened when I was living in a college at uni, it happened in the navy. Girls do it too. It’s not just guys. I agree with lots of others here – jumping the gun and crucifying the guys because they’re guys.
loading...
fully agree with you
loading...
Why are these ‘team bonding’ trips that sporting groups take, more often than not an excuse to get drunk, use drugs, act inappropriately. How about no more team bonding trips. Act like idiots on your own holidays.
loading...
Hopefully these idiots get sacked, lose their Institute of Sport scholarships and all sponsorships and have to work for a living instead but I suspect it will all go away after a while and they’ll re-emege with attitudes unchanged. But what I am 100% certain of is that the only reason this has come out is their failure at the Olympics. If they’d done this stuff and come home with gold we wouldn’t even be having this conversation and it would be seen as “un Australian” even to mention it.
loading...
I also watched the today show and didn’t hear a thing about sexual harassment until I read this article. Cate was asked about the red bull and stillnox to which she said boys will be boys.. Of course any sexual harassment should be a sackable offence but leave poor Cate out of it, I think you have misquoted her in this case.
loading...
If it was schoolies week, end of uni holiday, a bucks night or a big birthday party? Go for your life..
But when tax payers are paying for them to go and represent their country, to represent us, its not OK to act like a pack of spoilt yobbos.
As for the alleged sexual harrassment, thats never ok.
loading...
“If it was schoolies week, end of uni holiday, a bucks night or a big birthday party? Go for your life..”
I hope you don’t mean it’s open slather to put unwanted sexual pressure on other people, which is what Bec is getting at.
loading...
Did you read my last sentence?
I was talking their partying.
loading...
Partying should not include UNWANTED sexual misbehaviour.
Did you read my last sentence properly?
loading...
“As for the alleged sexual harrassment, thats never okay.”
??
loading...
I think you know Chillax wasn’t saying that, She was saying act like idiots at the appropriate time and place, not when you are competing at the Olympics. You know, like what a lot of females and males do when they are partying.
loading...
‘As for the alleged sexual harrassment, thats never ok.’
The word ‘never’ in that sentence seems pretty clear to me.
loading...
OK just to clarify for everyone, even if you’re partying, there are lines you don’t cross, regardless of how “loose” everyone may seem to be getting. Apparently some people don’t understand that perhaps you can pre-empt how some behaviours might be received – at least in my group of friends, that’s how it works!
loading...
I’m not sure anyone needs clarification other than you. Neither chillax nor anyone else has said that sexual harassment while partying is ok. Her last sentence is very clear.
loading...
I really think everyone is missing the greater issue here. It’s not about how the men acted, it’s about how the coaches and others handled the complaint.
According to Jade, she complained about what happened but nothing was done. Then the coaches come out and say “oh we never saw any silliness”. This makes Jade angry and she talks to the media.
The men acted like children, sure. I’m positive you’d find the exact same thing happening on a school camp, trip or contiki tour!
While they did the wrong thing, the story shouldn’t be about them, it should be why management felt the need to ignore the situation.
loading...
I think it’s both that she complained, and also it shouldn’t have happened to her in the first place. You sound like you have a foot firmly placed in the boys will be boys camp.
You wouldn’t say “boys will be boys” when a bunch of young guys drag race their cars or bikes on public roads, would you?
loading...
I think the jury is still out on this one until the full investigation takes place. I think Cate Campbell probably used the phrase she did, because the boys aren’t actually proven guilty of anything yet. She was never going to slander them for sexual harrassment when she doesn’t know what occurred. Boys will boys, and sometimes idiots too, but does that necessarily mean sexual harrassment was involved? We can’t yet know. And because we don’t know, we can’t get all outraged over a young girl trying to be neutral about the situation when she represents the AIS who trains her. She can’t be blamed for that. I wouldn’t expect writers for this site to slag off other writers while an investigation was happening involving them either if it was going to make Mamamia look bad and jeopordise their opportunities to write for the site. I’d expect them to reserve judgement until the outcome of the investigation was known. It is the same thing – swimming is her livelihood and this was just a not so great choice of words, that’s all.
loading...
With the rightful cry for all sexual misbehaviour to be severely punished also comes an obligation to get facts straight before accusations are made
loading...
The same could be said for any misbehaviour, but the media doesn’t work that way. Perhaps you should focus on media integrity instead of sexual politics.
loading...
He was!
loading...
Where did he talk about anything else but alleged sexual misbehaviour?
loading...
What comment did you read????????????? He said sexual harrassment should rightfully be severely punished but that the media have an obligation to get facts right before branding someone guilty. It’s pretty clear.
loading...
Lucinda, have you ever noticed that WB only comments on this site when the topic is gender politics?
I’m not denying his right to an opinion, but looking at the bigger picture known as Life, I think he has an axe to grind, and his opinion may be biased.
loading...
Sorry nicki, that is simply not true. I comment on tons of stuff, however I feel strongly in defending my gender from unfair stereotyping.
loading...
So this is how it is. When a group of men sexually harass women in their team, and someone speaks out with their opinion, they get mass bullied instead of the actual idiots who did the horrible stuff. I think it would be good if we’ve started understanding how respecting opinions works.
Let’s write an article about the men that did the deeds, instead. Why don’t we? Why is Cate Campbell the problem? Why isn’t the relay team the problem? I am massively disappointed in the relay team, but to be honest, I knew before their events that the mens teams would fall flat on their bellies. I hated how arrogant they all seemed, and how overrated they were.
And i’m a young man, by the way. And I LOVE sportspeople. But these people do not deserve my respect.
loading...
We don’t even know if there was any sexual harassment!!’ You said yourself your making assumptions here on the innapropriate comments and actions of the male swimmers towards the females.
When she was saying innapropriate, she may of meant them running around annoying people who need to get rest before a race.
Making assumptions on what may of happened is so inappropriate in my opinion that it just makes me angry.
loading...
Hi Cool Beans
I am basing my opinion on the fact that Jade Neilsen has said she felt intimidated and distressed by the older male team members being in her room.
I also did say in the post that IF these allegations are true that ‘boys will be boys’ is not an excuse for sexual harassment.
loading...
I still think turning this into a sexual harassment article before knowing the facts is wrong. The meaning of the “inappropriate behaviour” is not clear in this case at all. She may of felt intimated and distressed because they were being loud and obnoxious and annoying, for all we know.
loading...
Loud, obnoxious and annoying In their underwear! On her bed! And Jade may have not used the term sexual harassment but I think that’s because women are woefully uneducated about what constitutes sexual harassment. If she’d found it funny, had a laugh, not made a complaint — then I wouldn’t have written this post. But she didn’t. She made an official complaint and statement talking about the men barging into her room uninvited in their underwear and feeling intimidated and distressed before kicking them out. She was a junior member of the team and there is a clear imbalance of power in this scenario.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one Cool Beans!
loading...
Sorry bec, I agree with everyone who has pulled you up about turning this into a sexual harassment issue. I have felt “distressed and intimidated” by the behaviour of men but that didn’t mean I felt sexually harassed. I think you’re missing the point.
loading...
Why not call it harrassment then, there’s no evidence of anything sexual? She could’ve felt intimidated and distressed by them harassing her just because they are male why is it assumed it was sexual harassment?
loading...
Oi Vey. Once this sort of article was reserved for rugby league players, (and Quade Cooper), now our swimmers too? Are we so sports mad that we forgive athletes, usually male athletes, for this kind of unacceptable behaviour? I mean I am sports mad, but I don’t see how this sort of thing is okay. These girls had trained hard to get where they were and to take a once in a lifetime opportuntity to achieve the ultimate success in their sport. Why should their preparation suffer as a result of moronic childish shenanigans by their team mates? It is possible to be a (male) elite athlete and not be a complete tool, do drugs, get in trouble with the law or (allegedly) assault your girlfriend. Tennis players do it all the time. So do rowers and hockey players. I’ll say it again, Oi vey.
loading...
Oi vey indeed.
On a related topic, I’m also watching the Pistorius case, as I suspect he will get away with killing Reeva……whether the judicial system finds it was pre-meditated murder or not, they won’t give her family and friends any peace.
loading...
This statement from the male swimmers is full of implied victim blaming. It makes me sick. These men broke the rules and harassed female swimmers. No amount of ‘team bonding’ or ‘tradition of keeping quiet about what happens on team bonding sessions’ makes that ok. Take some responsibility for your actions people. You did the wrong thing. Apologising actually means being sorry not deflecting blame onto others.
loading...
Spot on Bec.
loading...
“Boys will be boys” is no excuse for intimidating behaviour by people who should know better.
Public persecution and trial by media by people who don’t know the facts, is completely okay
loading...
Are you accusing the female swimmers of lying? Sure sounds like it.
loading...
What? How did you get THAT from what FHB said???
loading...
His use of “people who don’t know the facts”. The media has just been reporting what has been said by the swimmers themselves, so if he disputes it, he’s calling them liars.
loading...
Hold on Lulu, before I accuse you of simultaneously assuming facts are in reality what the females say as opposed to their version, or hypocrisy due to said reflections, what part of “people don’t know the facts” do you not attribute to general people?
Just want to know, seeing as I’m conflating strawmen with scarecrows?
loading...
Soooo glad to read that I wasn’t the only one who thought the ‘Boys will be boys’ comment was a very poor choice of a response!
loading...
It is ridiculious to comment on a situation and how it has made a third party supposedly “feel”. By the very definition of sexual harassment here: sexual harrassment is any unwanted or unwelcome sexual behaviour, which makes a person feel offended, humiliated or intimidated. Inappropriate does not immediately define sexual harrassment. Harrassment of a sexual nature is up to the individual to define, i.e. the victim feels they have been violated in a ‘sexual’ nature. For example- 2 women, same office one may find an inappropriate joke told by a colleague sexualing women hilarious- and the other feel sick and violated. This is not to say that the fact that the joke was told in the first place was ever ok. I’m sure these women can make their own minds up about whether or not they want claim sexual harrassment.
loading...
To my knowledge, Jade Neilsen is on record as saying she felt intimidated by the men in her room.
I’ll see if I can find further verification of that … stay tuned.
loading...
I think this is quite a tricky situation, especially for the other swimmers not involved. The media are going to swimmers like Cate Campbell and are hanging on every word they say. Cate Campbell is still a teammate of these guys – she’s hardly going to publicly embarrass them and obviously is going to be media trained by a PR rep. Until those who are under investigation come out and talk, we never really know what has gone on nor will we know what the other swimmers think.
But in answer to your question, being a male does not give you a free pass to act like a moron.
loading...
Surely the education starts with the parents? As a mum of boys I believe one of the most important lessons I will teach my sons (over many years) will be to respect women and treat them well. Some may call me old-fashioned but I believe in raising gentlemen, who know how to carry themselves and how to relate to women. Australian Swimming management has much to answer for if – as the News report suggests – they did nothing when alerted to the situation. These swimmers are led to believe they are invincible, incredible people and sadly big egos and bad behaviour follows.
loading...
The guy’s actions are pretty naff.
Maybe Cate Campbell’s opinion that “boys will be boys” is her way of politely saying “arseholes will be arseholes” ?
loading...
Rebecca Sparrow, it is amazing that you can read my thoughts without actually being in my head.
My oh my, I think a big flaw in the education system of today is that young women are not coached in this stuff enough. The fear of feeling inferior to men is still evident or these girls would have spoken out sooner.
loading...
Or maybe the education system is broken if boys aren’t coached on how not to be a F*ckwit 101
loading...
It’s not the education system that’s at fault, the education system didn’t raise them, their parents did! F*ckwit parenting 101.
loading...
I can’t believe our blaming the education system for this. This is NOT the schools fault or responsibility.
loading...
Bec, you are usually so measured and rational, so I can’t believe that is is you that is adding 1 + 1 to get 67.
You say yourself that you just assume something sexual and suggestive happened just because they were in their room in their underwear. That smacks of playing judge and jury before any clear facts have come out, which I feel is totally unfair given the severe nature of what you are suggesting.
Yes these guys were clearly being tools. The team is unlikely to feel threatened however purely because they are in their undies. They spend all day together in speedos after all. Beyond that, there is no evidence yet.
loading...
You can’t recognize the difference between being in a public area, often in a large group of people in speedos and getting into bed with a woman with your underwear on?
I used to be a swimmer and let me tell you guy in his speedos on the pool deck, big difference to the guy in my bed with his underwear on……..
loading...
There is a big difference between ‘in’ their bed and ‘on’ their bed too Guest. The article clearly says on.
loading...
Really, Wounded Bull? Would you care less if someone dropped a heave-inducing fart if they were “on” your bed, instead of “in” it?
I think you’re being facetious
loading...
Wounded Bull, doesn’t the fact the Jade has said she felt intimidated by the men and that she and her room-mate kicked the boys out of their room (not to mention the fact they put in a complaint) make it sexual harassment?
Or not?
I’m asking that genuinely …
loading...
Nowhere in this article did you report that Jade said she felt intimidated or that she felt that was any kind of sexual advance on her and her roomate. All she said was that it was inappropriate. I don’t think we can make the assumption that it’s the same thing. At least not until we know more.
loading...
Hi Lucinda
Those statements came out this morning and just now on Seven News that she reported feeling “distressed” and “intimidated” as a junior member of the Olympic team.
loading...
Ah, ok, well I guess we will just have to see what else comes out Bec. It’s a big accusation, we can’t label them guilty of something we have no details about. But if it is true then I hope it is dealt with seriously.
loading...
Agree. We need all the facts to come out.
loading...
I’ve felt intimidated tons of times in my life Bec without it being sexual. It is a big smear to leave without proof or facts
loading...
Intimidated by someone in their underwear in your hotel room at night time? Lets keep in mind Jade was a junior team member.
loading...
Bec – brick wall; you may want to reconsider banging you head against it.
loading...
Yeah, damn that ‘logical argument and request for proof of sexual harassment before stoning someone’ approach. Yay for lynch mobs.
loading...
Maybe a compelling counter argument instead lulu?
loading...
WB, the facts are taken directly from the complainants statement, and so far there has been no suggestion from officials or from the men involved that her statement is inaccurate.
If a guy has barged into a woman’s private hotel room uninvited and gotten uninvited onto herr bed – that definitely has sexual overtones. Usually a man (a relative stranger) wouldn’t be almost-naked on a woman’s bed unless it was a sexual situation. If she then kicks him out and says she felt intimidated, it’s not a long bow to draw to say sexual actions + intimidation = sexual harassment. In fact, I’m pretty sure that’s as close to the definition as it gets. Seriously, look it up. (I don’t say that rudely, I say that earnestly.)
BTW there are also interesting cases that you might like to read, that define what constitutes sexual behaviour according to Australian law, in cases where people are charged with “indecent assault” as opposed to normal assault. Eg if the behaviour may or may not have been done with sexual intent, is it “indecent” (sexual) or not. You might find them interesting.
loading...
Sorry but this is incredibly naive. The boys weren’t relative strangers, they were team mates. The girls and boys would have spent loads of time with each other and we know nothing of the interactions leading up to the incident. The girls obviously let the boys into the room, despite them being effed on stillnox and wandering around in their underwear. It’s not as black and white as you seem to believe. I think we need to let the investigation uncover exactly what went on before we judge their actions.
loading...
So what if they all knew each other well? The girls didn’t want the guys there, and they complained about it. Rape in marriage was justified once upon a time by the same logic, as is date rape.
Maybe it’s more black and white than you want to believe.
loading...
They were part of the same swim team, but I don’t believe they were team ‘mates’. These guys were treated as special by the coaches – Leigh Nugent called them his ‘dream team’. There are allegations of bullying and arrogance from them, so no, I wouldn’t say they were buddies all having fun together. We don’t know if they were let into the room, or barged in when the door was opened, but as has been pointed out, she was a junior team member, and they were the ‘heroes’, so yes, I’m sure she was, as she says, intimidated.
loading...
Alice, so that means most kids at school camps are sexual offenders. I don’t know how many girls barged into my room and jumped on my bed at our year 12 orientation camp.
loading...
Were they high on drugs and in their underwear acting like idiots?
loading...
Well, truthfully, some were, yes.
loading...
I don’t see what is so hard to understand here…
These people are work colleagues, not children on a school camp.
Imagine your on a work trip and your colleagues come into your room at night half naked and are inappropriate.. How is that NOT sexual harassment??
It is not too far a stretch to expect professionalism from our athletes, especially when there is such considerable investment from their employers (taxpayers).
They are after all “professional” athletes, they sign employment AND behavioral contracts….That’s what makes the inaction from the management team so frustrating. The acceptance of this behavior is unacceptable.
Dawn Fraser was dispelled from Australian swimming for 10 years (!) in 1965 for allegedly stealing an Olympic flag….
I wonder what will happen to these swimmers??
loading...
I agree that these guys are absolute idiots and what they did was wrong, but I feel the media is also at fault. The media are the ones that contributed to hyping these boys up as ‘untouchable’ & put them on pedestals. I’m sure Magnussen did not come up with the Commonwealth bank advert idea of him being number 1 before he had even raced. Wasn’t it the sponsors that set up a bar/club in London for the athletes to party at during the Olympics, no wonder they could not focus on the reason why they were there.
I also agree that if they had won gold none of this would be coming out.
loading...
My place of employment also occastionally organises functions at pubs and clubs, but I know when to leave. My employer never forces me to stay and drink until I make a fool of myself. Yes the sponcers may have organised a place for the olympians to rest/party, whatever, but it was these men who chose to act they way they did.
loading...
You know that you cannot tell someone that they have been sexually harrassed. Whereas you would feel harrassed if it happend to you does not matter, as at the end of the day it is about how the person on the receiving end of the behaviour perceives the behaviour. So if she sees this as boys being, boys, she can see it as boys being boys without getting a public lashing from others.
loading...
I also noticed the ‘boys will be boys’ comment and was appalled. However, the even more deplorable comment was made later by Karl Stefanovic in his summing up of the interview. He said ‘yes, but boys will be boys’. To me, this is just as bad.
loading...
Sorry women have a tendency to exaggerate sexual harassment. Example my co worker slept with a guy she was too keen on. He dismissed her afterwards as most blokes do with one night stands. No rude, just wanted nothing more. Next thing he has a sexual harassment case against him.
loading...
Women have a tendency to exaggerate sexual harassment?
Because one woman you know did, in your opinion, you tar all women with that brush?!
loading...
Ha ha! I wrote my comment and then refreshed the page and up comes yours with the same wording. Jinx! I owe you a Coke…
loading...
I don’t know if I would consider your example to be definitive proof of your statement… Kind of tarring everyone with the same brush.
loading...
Underwear is way more revealing than dickstickers?
loading...
Ah, the old “what were they wearing” argument.
*facepalm*
loading...
Boys will be boys, but they don’t have to be dicks.
loading...
I am also very annoyed at this. The same attitude seemed to make itself known when Prince Harry was involved in whatever he was doing in Las Vegas recently. Imagine how popular culture would have reacted if Prince Harry was a woman – a princess – rather than a man? The world would have been horrified!! But Prince Harry almost got a pat on the back for his ‘funny’, ‘laddish’ behaviour, and I’m sure ‘boys will be boys’ was bandied around plenty of times.
Bad, disrespectful, primitive, animalistic behaviour is just that, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator.
loading...
I doubt many people would be horrified if Harry’s behaviours had been by a girl. Similar behaviour happens every weekend when guys and girls have too much to drink.
loading...
Hi H-Jane
Isn’t the difference that we can’t assume that Prince Harry’s ‘naked romp’ with that girl WASN’T consensual?
I just assumed it was and it was Prince Harry and his friends mucking around in the privacy of their own hotel room.
I didn’t look at the photo of him and the girl and assume she was being harassed.
But you make an interesting comment. Thanks for joining the conversation.
loading...
I was making a point that this pervasive attitude of ‘boys will be boys’ is a problem we seem to continue to encounter regardless of whether sexual harassment is at play or not. I certainly was not disagreeing with your sentiments, Bec.
I am more expressing my distaste that anybody could think that men should be able to get away with bad behaviour because ‘boys will be boys’. With regard to Prince Harry, I beg to differ from Anonymous’ perspective – imagine if Princess Beatrice was caught in those compromising images? The world has such a disgusting double standard on this stuff, I imagine she would be slut-shamed for years to come. Prince Harry, however, gets Kochie laughing that ‘boys will be boys’ (but if women breastfed, they need to keep it classy!) and the media jokes about it for a day or two, Prince Willam makes a funny speech about it, and the world forgives and forgets.
Apologies, I hope my point is slightly clearer? (As mud, I am sure!)
loading...
Apologies again – that comment above is from me.
loading...
Oh I getcha now. Okay, yes … total double-standard with the Prince Harry versus Princess Beatrice analogy. Totally agree with you!
loading...
Since when does inappropriate behaviour become sexual harassment exactly? They most likely were behaving inappropriately to many swimmers that night, male and female. Is it sexual harassment if they did the exact same to other male swimmers on the camp as well (which I assume they did).
Inappropriate is inappropriate, it is not suddenly a much greater crime classed as ‘sexual harrasment’ just because females are on the receiving end of the bad behaviour.
loading...
If these men (who are physically imposing and also held a certain God-like status in the team) barge into a room wearing only their underwear and lie on a woman’s bed ( a woman who does not want them there ) — that would be classed as sexual harassment.
And yes, if they did the same thing to other male swimmers it is still classed as sexual harassment.
Here’s the definition from the Australian Human Rights Commission:
“Sexual harassment is any unwanted or unwelcome sexual behaviour, which makes a person feel offended, humiliated or intimidated.
Sexual harassment is not interaction, flirtation or friendship which is mutual or consensual.
Sexual harassment is a type of sex discrimination.
The Sex Discrimination Act 1984 (Cth) makes sexual harassment unlawful in some circumstances.
Despite being outlawed for over 25 years, sexual harassment remains a problem in Australia.
Sexual harassment disproportionately affects women with 1 in 5 experiencing sexual harassment in the workplace at some time. However, 1 in 20 men also report experiencing sexual harassment in the workplace.[1]“
loading...
Very interesting comment.
It’s funny that we’re hearing how outraged she is that it happened, but what exactly did she say to them on the night? Perhaps she had a laugh along with them then told them to get out because she was trying to sleep? How did they get in the room in the first place? Assuming this was a hotel, doors are locked until someone inside or someone with a key opens them.
The point? WE ARE SPECULATING! We don’t know what went on in that room. We don’t know what movements they made, their tone of voice, what was or wasn’t said! How long they were there, how the girls were acting, who else they bothered?
loading...
None of us really know how we will react to intimidation, whether sexual or not……unless you are one of those people who has the perfect retort/karate move, and use it at the required moment.
In the meantime, victims need our support, not our doubt
loading...
I don’t need a press conference to tell me that Magnussen is a bit of a tool. His general behaviour takes care of that for him. I’m sure a “lack” of leadership and the % of first time Olympians will be used to claim a role model void. Here’s the thing, these are not boys they’re men. They shouldn’t need a role model on how to NOT be an asshole. They should just know.
loading...
Spot on!
I get through my work days without ever behaving like an ass hole and no one had to teach me that.
loading...
So, if I replay your entire life as a teenager or early 20s, you are totally squeaky clean Littleblackdress?
loading...
Hmm, would you also like to share what you did in your 20′s, Red Bull?
If my tax money is being spent on trainers and sports psychologists for these show-ponies, I expect that they will be taught how to behave like decent human beings – heck, there are plenty of parents doing the same thing every day, without the multi-million dollar budget.
loading...
I am not defending them, but only ask that we all recall our worst behaviour at a similar age. And I am wounded, not red thanks.
loading...
I behaved “badly” (got drunk), at schoolies, but not before the HSC.
loading...
I wonder if there would be as much moral outrage if it was a group of drunk female swimmers?
loading...
Dawn Fraser?
loading...
I’ve met Dawn a few times and she’s lovely, very funny and quite saucy! You never know …
loading...
I think Anonymous’s point was that Dawn Fraser was suspended from the swim team at the 1964 Olympics for bad behaviour during the Games- so yes, it cuts both ways. If someone mucks up, they should be punished or suspended- male or female.
loading...
Yes Kylie, that was my point. Dawn Fraser was banned for 10 years (later reduced to 4) for stealing a flag. Female swimmers have faced disciplinary actions. I don’t know of any male swimmers that have been banned. Even Nick Darcy got to swim.
loading...
If the male swimmers felt harrased and made a similar complaint then I would hope there would be
loading...
But it wasn’t.
loading...
Actually, I think it would be worse if the swimmers were female. Boys being drunk and moronic is often classed as ‘boys will be boys’, but there’s no equivalent of ‘girls will be girls’ when women get off their faces and act like idiots. Being drunk is ‘unladylike’, but not ‘unmanly’. If anything, getting off your face is a sign strength and masculinity.
On the sexual harrassment side of it though, if it was female swimmers lying on the bed of male swimmers half unclad, then yeah, I see your point. Considering the gender climate in sport these days, it might even boost a female’s career.
loading...
I think people would be very excited by the prospect of Stephanie Rice being drunk, raucous and sexually harassing the men!
loading...
Speak for yourself.
loading...
If they liked it, it wouldn’t be harassment. If she was actually harassing anyone, it would be just as inappropriate.
loading...
Well Done Bec. Cate Campbell is young and shouldn’t be villified for this statement, but she should definately be corrected – Sexual Harrasment is criminal behaviour, and everytime someone says something like “boys being boys” they are not only telling women that ‘they’re the ones with the problem’, they are also telling people that men are all animals who act that way because they can’t help it. Well MOST men DON’T act this way – and the people who do are committing a crime.
loading...
Sexual harassment, in and of itself, is not a crime. I’m not sure anything described here would necessarily be criminal behaviour.
loading...
It’s described as “unlawful” by the Australian Human Rights Commission. And I feel sure that the harassment Jade received would be classed as being in her ‘workplace’ since they were on a swimming training camp in Manchester.
Here’s what the AHRC says:
” Every year, sexual harassment in the workplace is one of the most common types of complaints received by the Commission under the Sex Discrimination Act. In 2009 – 2010, 21% of all complaints to the Australian Human Rights Commission were under the Sex Discrimination Act, and 88% of those complaints related to sex discrimination in the workplace. The wide use of new technologies such as mobile phones, email and social networking websites creates new spaces where sexual harassment may occur.
Sexual harassment at work is against the law. Sexual harassment can be committed by an employer, workmate or other people in a working relationship with the victim. “
loading...
Thanks for that – I was just going to say – yes it is, and post the website address
http://www.humanrights.gov.au/sexualharassment/index.html
loading...
It is certainly unlawful in the workplace – in that you can sue your employer if you’ve been sexually harassed. But sexual harassment itself doesn’t carry any criminal sanctions.
loading...
You could kind of argue that they were at work, though, couldn’t you? Aside from that, I think there may be more than we’re being told to the whole fiasco – media sensationalising again?
loading...
I get where you’re coming from here – but these are “professional athletes” and as far as I read it, they were in a workplace.
loading...
Great comment!
loading...
Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t think James Magnusson was one of the boys accused of entering the room. It was actually James Roberts and Cameron McElvoy. I think you will find that Cameron McElvoy is also a very junior member of the swim squad so to say the Jade was intimidated by the much older squad members is technically incorrect.
loading...