On 23 December 2010, a Chinese-born woman living in the United States attempted to take her own life. She survived but she was also 33 weeks pregnant.
Bei Bei Shuai had been recently abandoned by her boyfriend who had previously promised to marry and start a family with her and she was desperate. After being admitted to hospital though, she did survive.
One week later she was admitted to hospital once again as her her unborn baby, Angel was showing signs of distress. Angel had suffered bleeding in the brain and died during the early hours of 3 January 2011. Shuai has been charged with her murder.
The Guardian newspaper reports that:
For the first time in Indiana’s 196-year history, the state has applied felony charges against a woman that hold Shuai criminally liable for the outcome of her pregnancy.
The feticide law, introduced in Indiana in 1979, was designed with violent third parties in mind: abusive boyfriends or husbands who attacked their pregnant partners, causing them to lose their unborn babies.
It was enhanced to carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in 2007 after a bank robbery in which a pregnant woman was shot in the stomach, killing her fetus but leaving her alive.
Speaking exclusively to The Guardian, Shuai said:
“It was a really bad experience. I thought nobody would care about me anymore, that I was a worthless person with no future.
But I learned a great deal. I learned that my life wasn’t the worst as I thought it was. Everything that has happened has made me think that I am so blessed.
I want to stay and fight this case. I have the best legal team, and I’m not afraid anymore to face the charges.”
Shuai was held in a high security prison for more than a year. If convicted of murder she faces possible life in prison.
Shuai’s defence lawyer says that Shuai was suffering from severe mental illness at the time of her suicide attempt and wants the charges dropped. But the prosecutor is determined to see the case go to court. The prosecutor has said:
“It’s my job to enforce the criminal code as enacted by our legislature and that’s what our legislature has determined. What we allege is that her actions were directed specifically at the unborn child. It’s not that she was trying to take her own life, it was that she was trying to take the life of her foetus.”
In Australia each state and territory has a separate criminal code. Some states do have criminal offences that apply to killing an unborn child, some deal with the issue through abortion law. In no Australian state is the crime considered to be akin to murder.
If you need immediate help, you can contact:
Lifeline – 13 11 14
Suicide Call Back Service – 1300 659 467
Kids Helpline – 1800 55 1800
MensLine Australia – 1300 78 99 78
You can also visit beyondblue: the national depression initiative (1300 22 4636) or the Black Dog Institute, or talk to your local GP or health professional.
Comments
79 Comments so far
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Hmmm there’s lots of people who choose abortions – they are killing a baby aren’t they? No jail time for them….
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wowsa! some of the comments below are not cool! I am so shocked by people calling this woman selfish!
If u are at the point of killing yourself, you are not in a clear frame of mind! My Pop committed suicide, and by what my dad has told me(who found him dead) he wasnt making too much sense and didnt seem like himself at all the days leading up to him committing suicide! He had some sort of a nervous breakdown and took his life! If this woman wanted to end her life, her frame of mind would have been so clouded and depressed! How dare we judge someone in so much pain! As someone who suffers from anxiety and i have had depression earlier in my life, its a dark place, and it can be a very insane place too! Your rational thinking doesnt happen at times!
I am sure she is enough pain by the fact she has killed her unborn child, we dont need to condemn her for something that was not in her control! I think her mental state need to be looked at for this case! what a sad story, and even sadder that people still dont understand depression and mental illness and judge so quickly! it scares me as someone with mental illness that society wont..not cant.. understand!
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I am shocked at the ugliness of some of these posts and would hope that the MM moderators actually do something about it.
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I wonder if they are going to charge women who drink alcohol during pregnancy with grevious bodily harm or attempted grevious bodily harm next. This is getting out of control and prosecutors need to uphold the spirit of the law not just the words itself.
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Oh this is so sad.
She needs help and compassion not jail time! If someone is attempting suicide they are not thinking straight and not thinking of all the consequences. They are only thinking of escaping their PAIN. The loss of her baby is such a sad, unfortunate outcome of her attempt.
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I’m so shocked that posters below are suggesting this woman needs gaol time. Oh yes, she’s so destroyed emotionally she thinks life is not worth living. She’s mentally ill, at the lowest ebb of existence.
Surely she needs compassion and support?
Wow. Just wow.
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All those commenters baying for the blood of homebirthing mothers at Mamamia last week, speaking of women who had lost their babies with such contempt, making light of the mental health impacts of pregnancy and birth because all that matters is a healthy baby, how dare any mother make ‘selfish’ choices which might put her baby at any kind of risk, because you can get counselling but never bring back a dead baby (ahem, Mia)… Where are you all today? Why aren’t you throwing the book at this woman, too?
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To draw a parallel between that and this story, I assume you are stating all home birthers have a mental illness?
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absolutely not. but birth-related trauma, anxiety etc are all common reasons which motivate women to seek home birth. reasons which were ridiculed by many commenters and Mia herself.
PS the parallel is that at least one of the home birth deaths discussed last week involved a baby who never took a breath, therefore typically not legally considered a person.
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Not all of us were baying for the blood of homebirthers. I’d wonder if the ones baying for their blood are also doing the same here.
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Mental illness does not mean someone is selfish!!!!!
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Yes but people with mental illnesses still do make selfish decisions and I believe suicide is one of them. I don’t believe mental illness can be blamed for everything otherwise anybody who goes out and murders or kills can just use that excuse. At some point there is accountability for your own actions.
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I don’t think mental illness is an excuse for murder at all.
Suicide is different. And I’m sure those who have contemplated suicide WOULD take responsibility for those actions.
I don’t believe taking responsibility for something necessarily means you are selfish.
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In this case it wasn’t just about the person committing suicide though was it? she was also responsible for the life of that unborn baby. That is the responsibility I was talking about. I’m not saying she deserves life in prison but she should be accountable for ending that babies life.
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in Australia and many US states it’s legal to have an abortion at 33 weeks. why hold her accountable but not others?
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As commented below late term abortions are not just performed because the parent doesn’t feel like having a baby, it is done because there is a serious complication which means the pregnancy is not viable. If someone was to have a late term abortion just because they decided they didn’t want it I would totally hold them accountable.
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Oh please. People who make a serious suicide attempt are not selfish. They are so unwell that they can no longer function. Apples and oranges.
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I should point out that this reply was directed to the first Anon:
Yes but people with mental illnesses still do make selfish decisions and I believe suicide is one of them. I don’t believe mental illness can be blamed for everything otherwise anybody who goes out and murders or kills can just use that excuse. At some point there is accountability for your own actions.
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well statements like yours seriously piss me off because you feel the need to tell me what I have and haven’t experienced in life. I do know people with mental illness and I have first hand experience but I do not blame MY decisions on mental illness.
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nor did I say it was, note the inverted commas…
ed – although that’s kind of the point, isn’t it. At what point is a woman’s body her own, to do with as she pleases, and at what point is she responsible for the baby her body is carrying? Is the baby a person whose death the state can investigate or prosecute? Can we force a woman to carry to term or birth in a hospital, if we have declared that a fetus does not have rights?
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Wow, people are so quick to judge and call people selfish for thinking the this world has nothing to offer them. Until you have walked in someone’s shoes you can’t judge that person.
A month ago my sister attempted suicide, thankfully she didn’t succeed. She had a normal life withits usual ups and downs until one night when two strange men entered her home and murdered two of her friends in front of her. One of her friends died in her arms. So as you can imagine the months that followed were very difficult.
My other sister upon hearing the news of the attempted suicide left a message on her phone calling her selfish. Thankfully my sister was in a mental hospital at the time and did not get that message until later. Even then it deeply hurt her, she knew if she had got that message on the day of the suicide attempt she would have tried again.
My point here is this, you people have absolutely no idea what harm you do when you call someone with depression selfish for wanting to end their life. Who knows, someone on here may have been feeling the same way today and upon reading your heartless comments decided to go through with it.
Do I think my sister was selfish? Absolutely not! Do I think my other sister who called her selfish is indeed the selfish one? Bloody oath! She was the only one thinking out for herself.
Please step away from your seemingly perfect existence for half a second and ask yourself ‘what must that person have felt to want to end their life?’ what could you have done to help them? How would have you coped in their situation?
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I remember in highschool a girl committed suicide and and they said it was selfish and I was really shocked by that, I thought “this girl was in pain, she was their friend how could they say that?!”
But then my boyfriend committed suicide. Now I have lived it, the therapy, the drugs, the ECT believe me He did it ALL I know how much pain he was in I saw it EVERY DAY His eyes were sallow and cold, they used to be smiling eyes that filled me with joy. Everyday was a struggle, eveyday was a new attempt to put the pieces together and give it another shot.
I was there when he tried to end it several times, I put him to bed when he didn’t even know who or where he was anymore, when he didn’t even remember I’d visited him I still supported him. The only thing that made that battle worse was that he ended it and left everyone else to pick up the pieces.
I know more about depression and anxiety than I ever wanted to, I know the dark place it takes people and I know how many people never come back, I Know that He tried every avenue possible to “fix himself” (as he used to say).
I don’t know if he would have ever been ok again but that doesn’t take away from what he did and that everyday I will remember that I will never see him again, that he is missing out in this life, he was only 27. We tell ourselves that they have found a better place, and I truly hope he has found a place where he feels the sun on his skin peace in his soul.
It’s not selfish because I wish he was here, it’s selfish because for the rest of our lives we will feel the pain of that day where he chose to end his life and we will always ask ourselves if we did enough. We did EVERYTHING we could do to help him. Relationships are fractured, hearts are so broken and there is no sign of repreve in sight.
‘Until you have walked in someone’s shoes you can’t judge that person’, you’re right you cant judge, you still have your beautiful sister and I hope your family never has to go through that terrible experience ever again and that she responds well to her treatment and therapy. but just so you know, I would give anything to have him back even just for a minute even if he was that shell of a man because in my mind the feel of his arms around me or the smell of his deoderant would ease my pain just a little, even now 5 years later. maybe thats selfish of me. Just because I think it was selfish doesn’t mean I don’t understand his pain.
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Thanks Anon for this, for writing this. I hope you find some peace.
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Perhaps another way of looking at it is what we would think if she went to term and three weeks later in exactly the same frame of mind jumped off a bridge with her new born baby and survived but the baby did not. Now the abortion until birth viewpoint will see this as completely different but I don’t and either case I think we need to combine understanding, help and some form of legal sanction as I gather often happens in infancticide case.
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I have a family friend who committed suicide and has left her family and close friends forever altered. It is selfish but that’s easy to say when you’re on the outside looking in. I can’t imagine what pain she must’ve been in to think that life would be better off without her. It’s tragic and now as an adult, I can begin to look at it from her perspective. I know her intention was never to hurt anyone, on the contrary, she thought she was saving people pain by ‘leaving’. Being pregnant in an unstable relationship is incredibly hard and if you have little or no support around you, I can see how this girl may have felt like suicide was her only option. It is just so terrible the baby died the way it did, and that it took all this to happen for her to realise that life is a blessing and so was her baby. At the end of the day you can never really judge someone until you’ve walked in their shoes. I don’t feel the US has got anyones best interest at heart by persecuting her this way. Who are they trying to appease? I guess this is what happens when you buy your politicians and they’re all ‘God fearing’. I doubt very much that God would approve of this either, I’m sure she’d say help this woman. She has to live with what she has done for the whole of her life. It will never be far from her mind. Guilt is a pretty nasty punishment. Help her, don’t jail her. Save jail for the intentional killers, the real killers, not the mentally unstable. Have mercy.
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Isn’t it true that you can be found not guilty of crimes because of insanity? At least in the US? Suicidal would fall into that – isn’t murder deliberately and wilfully taking the life of someone i.e. the motivation and purpose of the actions is to kill another and it needs to be proven that you were mentally stable?
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The whole situation is horrific. I would imagine she would not be convicted of a particularly harsh penalty considering her mental state. This woman needs help above all else.
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As someone who suffers severe clinical depression & has previously attempted suicide after my husband left me, I am sPeechless at some of the comments above. Suicidal thoughts & actions are the actions of a desperate individual. A broken individual. Not a selfish one. Get some education on the issue before being so thoughtless as to make these kinds of comments.
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I agree. I’ve tried to commit suicide, as have both my little sisters (mental illness not family circumstances – our poor, darling parents), and I think it’s the most selfish thing you can do.
I know you’re not in your right state of mind (you think you’re worthless, a burden, that you’d be better off dead, you want to show people how much you’re hurting, get attention – a million reasons). But your actions are going to devastate and traumatise those around you. Sometimes you can’t see that (eg because you think you’re a burden and they’d be better off without you) but you are still choosing to put them through it. I do think that’s selfish.
I also agree with Z that this woman needs mental health and support, not jail.
On a different note – late term terminations occur at around 32 weeks here. Arguably the only difference is the method she chose to terminate the baby – and yet people below are commenting she deserves life in jail because of it. I hope I never run into you guys around an abortion clinic.
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Late term abortions at 32 and beyond weeks do not occur because someone has decided they don’t want a baby, they occur because there is something seriously wrong, usually incompatible with life.
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Tell that to my mother and 13 year old brother. Just because it is a disease doesn’t mean the outcome isn’t selfish. My life is forever changed and everyday I remember I will never see him again that he got to leave and I didn’t. Our family was already broken now it is beyond repair.
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Well said anon. I’m so sorry for your loss and pain xx
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Obviously all circumstances are different, but many people who commit suicide HAVE been seeking help – for years and years and years. They have tried all sorts of counselling, therapy, medication, meditation, diet changes, vitamins, exercise, WHATEVER. I am sure they also feel their families would be better off without them – I am not saying this is true, or even rational…but probably how they feel.
I can understand the feeling of, ‘the outcome is selfish’…but I don’t think we should assume the person was ‘acting selfishly’ and didn’t perhaps try for years to get help. They may have even toyed with the idea of suicide a number of times and managed to stop themselves going through with it…until they couldn’t anymore.
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I agree. It’s not a selfish act, because those who are mentally ill may truly believe their loved ones are better off without them, or may even lack capacity to consider the implications at all (eg if psychotic).
Horrible, tragic, devastating yes. But selfish is not the right term.
And, if it helps to know, I lost my father to suicide.
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Anon for this, I don’t mean to diminish your pain in any way as you seem to have suffered greatly.
But where do you draw the line between labelling someone selfish and then taking that further and saying they deserve the treatment that this woman is receiving?
Sure, the person who sees the only option as suicide may be selfish for only considering their pain/needs, but after countless forms of therapy and attempts to fix things, if that person is still is still in that much pain they see suicide as the only option – is it not more selfish to want to keep them here so that your pain is not felt?
Whatever people’s views on suicide this is a tragic case and it seems that she is being punished and judged overly harshly.
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I think it depends. As a nurse I have seen many failed suicide attempts come through emergency. There are those who are so sick, so out of touch with everything except their own illness, that they can’t function enough to have the perspective of ‘what would this do to my family’. They just feel like it’s the only way to end their illness.
That’s not selfish, that’s being unwell. Of course there are people who ‘attempt suicide’ by making shallow cuts or taking very small overdoses who are doing it as more of an emotional response to something than a genuine attempt to die.
They’re all sick, but there are some people who are just so flat and so far gone that there is no way you can label them as ‘selfish’.
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Sometimes trying to spare family the future impacts of the mental illness is a big consideration of a suicidal person. When an illness has already devastated their lives and impacted severely on their friends and family. When they have run out of treatment options and the side effects of the treatment may be as nasty as the illness itself. When the hope of a normal life no longer exists and they do not want to settle for a life more akin to that of someone in a freak show.
Sometimes suicide is a rational response to devastating circumstances that have no hope of change. Many suicidal people feel as though they are an enormous burden on their loved ones and while their death would be painful, that in balance it would be a better thing for their families. Selfishness doesn’t come into it that often.
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Mamamia can you PLEASE review the mindframe guidelines on reporting suicides? Method of suicide attempt is unnecessary & seems to be regularly reported in your articles. Just “attempted suicide” is more than adequate.
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I understand what you’re saying, and why you’re saying that, but clicking on the linked article (Guardian UK) will immediately answer any question someone had about method.
I guess Mamamia could be responsible themselves by omitting that information – but it’s not hard to find once disclosed…
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Thanks for the reminder Ella. We’ve updated accordingly.
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This makes me feel very sick. This woman clearly needed help. I think the fact that she told people what she had done will be misconstrued to the point that there could have been the possibility that she was actually indeed trying to harm only the baby. However how the law in the US or any country like ours needs to have a clear definition of crime=punishment. And And I do believe that she should face the law and be trialed with no prejudice and compassion for her individual circumstances. You are culpable for anyone else life when you put that life at risk by something that you do. Including the life of an unborn child.There are always cases that test our law and im sure this will be one of those cases. I feel either way this is a sad and tragic set of circumstances for all involved.
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Well, I’m sure she’ll get lots of help in prison, won’t she!
Sometimes a suicide attempt involves telling others about it. I would think from what little I know about mental health that in telling people about it, it would indicate she was more ambivalent about it than if she just went off by herself and successfully committed suicide.
In Australia, remember, the foetus is not considered to be alive, just as in some states of the US. If she is successfully prosecuted, what does that mean for those with al ohol or drug problems? I’m not saying I like the idea of pregnant alcoholics/drug abusers, but their jails will could get awfully full if a precedent is set. What about freedom of choice for the mother?
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In a lot of countries harm to an unborn baby is factored into law. While I believe her mental state needs to be factored into sentencing, she has deliberately set out to do harm to herself and the baby.
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I have sympathy for her but I don’t think you can make exception. We all jump up and down when a husband beats his wife who is pregnant and kills the unborn baby and say he should have been charged with murder. Sounds to me like she meant to kill the baby so also she should be held accountable. Obviously I think her mental status should be taken into consideration but I do not believe that she has been wronged by being charged.
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I agree completely.
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Men who bash their pregnant wife/girlfriend don’t get life in prison.
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No but they should if they do so and it results in an unborn baby being killed in my opinion. I do not believe that she deserves life in prison sorry if I did not make that clear in my comment but I do actually think she should be held accountable for the death of that baby.
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But if the law contains no exceptions for self induced harm then I think the prosecutor is right – his job is to enforce the law. Whether there should be an exception I’m not sure – abortion is a medical procedure not a do it yourself thing any more than cutting your arm off at home is the same as a surgical amputation. Of course it gets complicated because some people see a 33 week old fetus (3 weeks before full term) as having no independent rights and abortable while some see it as sufficiently close to birth that it’s not something society should condone. Personally, I see it much the same way as infanticide so by the time you get to this stage in the pregancy the only thing that can justify termination is something close to certainty that there will be a signficant risk of death for the mother in not terminating.
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Good, put her in jail.
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Wow. Just… wow.
I really feel for her. I also feel that if she is convicted, it sets an extremely dangerous slippery slope… Fall over and miscarry? Murder conviction. Crash your car and miscarry? Murder conviction. Eat dodgy chicken and get sick and miscarry? Murder conviction.
The unborn child is not a separate legal entity, so no murder has been committed.
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dodgy chicken, falling over, car accident??? all vastly diffrent from delibritly ingesting rat poisin while knowing your pregnant. her baby died because she was selfish!!!!!!!!!!!
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Are you saying because she was pregnant her suicide attempt was selfish?
Or do you believe suicide is selfish in general?
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It wouldn’t be murder in those cases but possibly involuntary manslaughter.
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hang on – if the boyfriend kicked her in the guts and she miscarried after she left him, would you be saying ‘oh, poor thing, he was abandoned, where is the compassion for him’. Yet, what is the difference exactly?
Just because it is the woman’s body that carries the child doesn’t mean she has no responsibility for their child.
How about a thought for the father. Just because their relationship ended, does not mean we dont show him compassion for losing a child. I show him more compassion then her actually, despite MM using emotive terms like ‘abandoned’ in the article. All we know is that their relationship failed. It happens lots actually and we have no way of knowing why this happened.
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“Just because their relationship ended, does not mean we dont show him compassion for losing a child”
He left the child when he left her.
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“hang on – if the boyfriend kicked her in the guts and she miscarried after she left him, would you be saying ‘oh, poor thing, he was abandoned, where is the compassion for him’. Yet, what is the difference exactly?”
This makes zero sense. So what you’re saying is… he kicks her. She leaves him. She then miscarries. Then we should feel sorry for him for being abandoned? Say what? I really don’t get it.
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whats not to get?? It is a valid comparison, to ask what is the difference if a woman hurts her unboarn child on purpose, and if a man hurts his unborn child on purpose. I am not sure what you dont get in that simple observation.
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I read a news report that a woman had been charged for a miscarriage due to DV injuries in the US.
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nice show of compassion Clare.
The USA has jailed many women through a loophole in this law. Nice to see you consider a vulnerable woman with a possible mental health issue get a criminal trial instead of dealing with what pushes a person to consider suicide.
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It’s a different story if she has mental issues. I also think a life sentence is a little harsh. But she just sounds selfish to me.
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In my opinion, anyone who attempts suicide has a mental health issue. That’s not normal. This is a vulnerable woman who has been abandoned, maybe felt like she had no options, and here everyone is condemning her… It’s incredibly tragic that her baby died, and I feel like as a society, we owe this woman some support, compassion and help. Not a jail term…
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“if she has mental issues”
“If”?? She.tried.to.kill.herself. Which part of that suggests no ‘mental issues’ to you?
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AGREE! *lulus unite*!
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‘If’ she has mental issues??
Case in point: SHE TRIED TO KILL HERSELF.
The poor woman obviously has mental issues, as suicide is a mental health issue.
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She clearly didn’t try to commit suicide just to kill the baby…
Yes she should have thought about the child but when you have severe depression or something similar it really isn’t that simple or clear.
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I think it’s clear she has mental health issues. Your assessment is harsh. She needs help, not jail.
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I assume you would be just as quick to offer help and sympathy rather than judge a man that hits his pregnant wife in the stomach after she left him? No?
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I would offer the same help to a man that tried to commit suicide. Attempting to do so and beating someone else is completely different.
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Wow!!! Put her in Jail? Just like that huh?
No thoughts on how depressed she must have felt to harm her body or her unborn baby! Post natal depression can also occur during pregnancy this is a classic example! I hope ALL facts are placed on the table before a women who clearly needs support and help is thrown to the wolves. Women are so quick to judge these days its disgusting! We are a womens worst critic! I hope this women gets the help she needs because to low her self to do such a horrible act where SHE doesnt want to live and to not be able to see a bright future for herself is sad.
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…and think how depressed and unstable a man must be to hit his pregnant wife in the stomach. Difference?
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“Difference?”
Difference is that he is not hitting *his own* stomach.
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Well, there is another human being in there when she is hurting her self, and that human being is more important than either adult. So again I ask, difference? Why on the one hand does the male in this situation get painted as a devil (as he should i might ad), yet the woman being offered nothing but sympathy, when the end outcome for the child is the same.
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I have to agree, in part, with Anonymous. This woman clearly was not well to have attempted suicide…but arguably, neither is the man who senselessly kicks his pregnant wife in the stomach. It is also horrific. A baby has never had the chance to live, due to actions that could have been prevented. As much as I wish I could, I can’t say I sympathize with this woman. And I myself am a woman.
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Since when did a foetus become more important than either of its parents?
BTW, I agree that a man is probably unstable if he has a pattern of hitting others that are more vulnerable than him. DV stats show that the incidence of DV rises during a woman’s pregnancy and in the first year after a baby’s birth. Make of that what you will.
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