Mia
by MIA FREEDMAN
It’s been a depressing, dispiriting and dehumanising week for those who care about refugees and their legal right to seek asylum in Australia – no matter how they arrive.
While most people agree that people smugglers are immoral opportunists and nobody wants to see asylum seekers risking their lives by coming here on boats, there have been developments this week that can only be described as heartless and shocking.
Firstly the government announced that genuine refugees arriving by boat will be given non-working visas that mean they will be unable to seek employment or support themselves for up to five years.
This from The Conversation:
Bridging visas will be issued to refugees who have been processed onshore, as part of the “no advantage” principle recommended by the Houston expert panel in August this year.
Immigration minister Chris Bowen said the sharp increase in asylum seeker arrivals meant it would not be possible to process everyone offshore. Refugees on the visas will not be allowed to work until they have waited as long as they would have had they been processed on Nauru or Manus Island. They will be able to access limited welfare benefits from Centrelink.
Bowen said refugees processed onshore could still be moved to detention on Nauru or Manus Island at a later date.
Then the coalition announced they would seek to reduce the intake of refugees from camps by 6,000.
This from the ABC:
Mr Abbott has pledged to return the quota to just 13,750 – a move that is estimated to save the budget $1.4 billion over the forward estimates – arguing that the extra places are sending the “wrong message” to people smugglers.
“Under this Government, those positions are increasingly being filled by the people who are coming to this country illegally by boat,” Mr Abbott told AM.
“We need to send the strongest possible message to the people smugglers and their clients that the game is up, we will not be dictated to by criminals.
“We will not allow ourselves to be played for mugs by people smugglers.”
Finally, Amnesty International visited Nauru and described the facilities – where we have sent asylum seekers to be processed – as “distressing” and noted the “terrible spiral” of mental illness, self harm and suicide attempts. They said that some of the detainees being held in Nauru still had shrapnel in their faces from conflicts they had fled. The Lucky Country, are we?
What about compassion for the incredible human suffering we are perpetuating on vulnerable people? A ”terrible spiral” of self-harm, hunger strikes and suicide attempts.
Do you support either party’s stance? Whose policy solution do you think is best? Do you think an agreement on this issue will ever be possible?
Comments
127 Comments so far
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I just wonder all you ” do goodness” who push for more people , refugees or immigrants to saturate this country, will you be the people complaining when in years to come our infrastructure is up the shit, our roads are congested, our housing crisis beyond repair, our hospitals and schools unable to cope and support the people .. Have a think before you speak.
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I suppose you mean ‘do gooders’? Name calling – great way to get your “argument” across.
I sincerely hope you and your family never find yourself in a desperate situation and at the mercy of people without compassion.
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That Lisa is my concern, the future looks grim for many families who may be susceptible to poverty & hard times. Overload of these people coming into this country is only going to make life harder for them & strain this beautiful country. We need to look after the people already living here, provide homes for them , not bring in more to add to the stress.
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So you object to all migration then? We should only let people who were lucky enough to be born here live in this country?
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On what grounds do you make the statement that taking in 13 000 refugees whose lives are dependent on it, is going to put more strain on the people who are already here? You do realise that those extra people become working citizens and contribute taxes to the economy don’t you? Removing the human rights of those who need protection and a shot at life will not magically fix the existing social problems.
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I’m more than happy to be labelled a ‘do-gooder’, even if you mean it with scorn. Yes, I want to do good things and I wish people like yourself did, too. How great would that be? Compassion is a beautiful thing, and it enriches your own life as well as the person in need. Give it a try.
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I cant believe youre no more in style since you positively have the gift.
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Reading through these comments it is so clear there are many misconceptions about asylum seekers and refugees…can people PLEASE read this fact sheet (posted elsewhere on this site) before throwing around the words ‘illegal’ (it is NOT illegal to seek asylum EVEN if you come with NO papers and by BOAT) and ‘queue jumping’ (THERE IS NO QUEUE)…in any case, the number of asylum seekers actually coming here by boat are blown way out of proportion by FEAR-MONGERING and the assertion that refugees get more benefits than a battling aussie is SIMPLY NOT TRUE.
while you’re sitting in front of your computer/smart phone having the world at your finger tips can you please take a second to read the fact sheet and understand that the asylum seekers are not the bad guys – they are the ones who DESERVE OUR HELP.
Fact sheet found here: http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/comments/24024/
For those on this blog who are highlighting the plight of asylum seekers and expressing their compassion – i love you and you are awesome
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I have been inspired by this article with (yet another) idea for a novel. I novel for teenagers that would turn this asylum seeker upside down and make kids think. Compulsory high school reading!! I hope this makes it past moderation:
2042 was the year from hell. I’d often just sit and wistfully remember the Australia I once knew; the Australia we all remembered, the one we grew up in, was but a memory. We were the lucky country; our lands were supposed to be abounding in nature’s gifts of beauty, rich and rare. Despite the same old political debates about health, education and immigration policy, the swings between left and right were quite rhythmic and predictable. We felt secure. My future then, was without a flicker of doubt.
I was 14 years old when the New Progressives Party burst on the Australian political stage. Most people I knew, including my parents laughed at the irony of their name and never believed they’d come into power. They couldn’t have been less progressive if they tried: they made the old One Nation party seem tame. Their policies were so close to the White Australia Policy that it was alarming and it really seemed inconceivable to us all that we could possibly regress to that way of thinking – especially me, an awkward teenage boy with skin the colour of iced coffee milk.
My parents came to Australia in 2023 from Afghanistan. They fled in terror as their war torn country fell apart again. The Taliban had instated a new leader and their surge to power left many families either destitute or dead. My Hazara parents did the only thing they could to survive and sold everything they had to board a rickety boat in Java, Indonesia. They believed with every last drop of hope they had, that Australia would offer them a safe and secure future. They were amongst the last to be taken in by this so called lucky country. I was born in 2025 and my parents did everything they could to give me the childhood and the opportunities they had missed out on.
While racism was a problem in Australia, I had a great childhood and felt I had everything to hope for. I wanted to be Veterinarian and hoped to get into Sydney University when I graduated high school. In 2039, everything changed and I was no longer the boisterous young man I once was. That year, the Prime Minister was assassinated and a by-election was held. Voting was no longer compulsory, and as a result many Australians, despondent with the political climate, failed to vote. Our worst nightmare was realised when on August 28th 2039, the New Progressives won 74 per cent of the seats in the House of Representatives. It was the biggest landslide victory this country has ever seen.
After the election victory, there was a sudden spate of violent riots and shootings, and people began protesting the racist government policy that was flooding the media. Soon people began disappearing. Anyone who didn’t fit the government’s ideal of Australian was facing real danger and many went underground to protect themselves. Within months, we had become the war torn country my family had given up everything to escape all those years ago. Our family, together with two other Afghan families eventually had to follow suit and go underground as well. There were refugee camps in PNG to the west of Port Moresby, but most knew that these would lead to certain death. Some sold their belongings to try to penetrate the borders of New Zealand, but were soon deported to PNG for offshore processing. New Zealand’s Foreign Affairs minister, Willis Leary had given a statement that they felt that the rise in Australian asylum seekers was a cause for concern and that he did not want to compromise New Zealand’s national security by processing onshore. Australia had become a volatile nation and nobody wanted to show hospitality to the country who had excised itself from the migration zone to keep “boat people” out. Some said Australia was facing the ultimate karma. Where did that leave me? I was facing a future as certain as the one my parents had back in Afghanistan, and I knew I couldn’t just stand by and do nothing. 2042 was set to be the worst year yet, and I just couldn’t watch. I had to fight to save what was once a beacon of hope for the people I loved most.
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**a novel for teenagers that would turn this asylum seeker ISSUE upside down** whoops.
I’m really inspired to write this story. I know some people won’t agree with the political stance behind it, but I feel passionately about educating people about the reality of these social issues.
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Our politicians think this is what the majority wants. We need to write to our local members, premiers and our prime minister and voice our objections.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil.
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Watching programs like “go back to where you came from” really puts this issue into perspective. As someone on twitter said at the time – people say what sort of parent would put their children on boats etc, however looking at where people are coming from – what sort of parent would not try to get their child out of that situation. There are solutions, asylum seekers are not political pawns. As was also said on that show, just because people don’t get on boats – doesn’t mean they don’t die. Given their approach towards asylum seekers, i can only hope neither major party wins government on the next occasion!
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People who reckon Refugees live the good life getting “rewarded” with centrelink etc. are kidding themselves, right? We’re doing the absolute MINIMUM, and yet it’s not them who complain all about this, it’s US. Making them wait five years for them to properly start their life in Australia, after god knows how many years being shacked up in refugee camps and/or Naru? WTF. Yeah, we’re a bunch of heroes.
I went to school with two people who lived in refugee camps, a girl from Sudan and a boy from Burma, collectively spending 6-7 years in these camps. Hardest working kids in the class, recognised the right as something as basic as going to school as a PRIVILEGE. Same can’t be said for a lot of aussie kids hey
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There are people living in our world who find themselves in such peril, in such a nightmare that they will do anything to escape.
Their family safety is compromised so badly that they dare not whisper a word about attempting to leave to other family members, friends, acquaintances, authorities, religious leaders or neighbours for fear of being dragged off to prison or executed.
Some men simply “disappear” to begin a long trek across countries to that leaky boat to somewhere safe.
Their hope (amongst hopelessness) is that they might reach a haven of relative safety where they can work & earn enough to begin the process of saving their family as well.
There are no “queues” to jump in those countries – society has broken down and corruption is everywhere………..violent thugs like the Taliban will execute any man who resists recruitment – that’s why you’ll often see men with their teenage sons on those “leaky boats”.
Women who manage to escape with their children are trying to get to anywhere that offers them a future – to a place perhaps where their daughters are treated like people of value.
We are so lucky here in our comparatively safe communities – even those on some kind of welfare…. I’m not being unsympathetic as most people are caught up in their own personal, financial & health struggles…………
There’s no doubt that our country has neglected it’s own, but if we don’t extend more of a helping hand & sympathy to the rest of our world and prepare our humanitarian resources – that world WILL come to us.
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Many of the people arriving on boats are economic migrants, not refugees. Those from Sri Lanka are an example. Many are genuine refugees, for example, those from Afghanistan. Yet we label them all refugees. If we were to welcome every economic refugee who wished to come here, well, it’d be impossible. How about world action to improve conditions in their own countries?
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I was on this bridging visa (Bridging Visa E) for almost 2 years until June 2011 albeit for different reasons (nothing illegal, didn’t ‘sneak in’, didn’t overstay a holiday, etc). Wasn’t legally allowed to leave Australia although I was desperate to and this is was the only temporary visa they could think to give me. Although my case was processed as an extreme priority it still took that long for Minister Bowen to make a decision, simply because the Immigration system is a backlogged nightmare. Despite making a mid 6 figure income before the birth of my child and my employer being desperate for me to return to the office or even work from home once my baby was well enough, I simply wasn’t allowed to work. The government preferred to give me $800/mth instead of receiving the money from the crazy high tax rate I’d be paying as a high-income earner taxed as a temporary resident. Oh and that $800 a month was given to support myself and an Australian baby.
All this visa will do is further break people and sadly encourage them to do desperate/illegal things in order to survive. After having lived this for 2 years – as someone who was in Australia for 4 years prior to that, speaks English as a first language, didn’t have past trauma to deal with and was fortunate enough to have personal support (and credit cards) to get us through – I really don’t understand how any politician thinks this is the solution. This is not going to work.
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You know what isn’t fair?
My local paper published two seperate stories last week.
The first was a single Mum of six, who is facing living in her car. No one will rent to her and there is simply no crisis accomodation available to her from the government.
The second is a single Mum of two disabled children. Her house in uninhabitable. They breath in toxic fumes every single day from the mould on the walls.
In the Bundaberg area we have around 300 public homes. 300 in an area with a population that exceeds 50,000.
Why can’t we look after Australians? Why should we care about illegal immigrants when hardship is already on our doorstep?
No, I don’t care about them, and sure that may seem heartless, but I worry about Australians. No I am not talking only about white Australians. All Australians, yes, even the immigrants who came here through proper channels.
We have a housing crisis. We have tremendous waiting lists for dental health, elective surgery etc…
So no, I couldn’t really give a sh*t about queue jumpers. I can’t jump the queue to get anything I want. So why are they more important then me?
Why are they more important then the two Mum’s I mentioned earlier? Who gives them the right to push in?
Why is it ok that we just had to fork out $500 we couldn’t afford for two fillings on our daughter’s teeth? We were not willing to pout her on a six month waiting list, and have a cavity turn into a tooth that needs extraction.
Please, before anyone says I don’t look after her teeth, she has hypoplasia, her tooth is unable to make enamel, and I think paying a Dentist instead of waiting proves that.
My husband works bloody hard, and pays tax, he doesn’t want his tax dollars going to them. He wants a say where his tax dollars go, and it seems that for the first time in our lives, we will be voting for the LNP this electition.
I know people may not agree with me, and that’s ok. I respect other peoples opinions also, I am just sharing mine.
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There is no queue. You can’t jump what doesn’t exist. And even if it did and the government was able to prevent people from doing so it doesn’t mean that these two mums would be able to get accommodation. They are two separate issues and the money that is devoted to them does not come out of an either/or pool. Frankly if you feel so bad for these women open your heart and your home to them and their children. That would do them more good than ranting about people jumping a queue that doesn’t exist.
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There is no queue? I was under the imperssion legal migrants had a wait of five years or more. My sincerest apologies to you, obviously I was wrong in my assumption that migrants had to wait on a list to be approved. You are obviously such an expert on the subject.
I humble withdraw my previous remark about queue jumping… I must have been labouring under a misunderstanding.
I take my hat off to you.
Note to my foreign friends who are now citizens; Please don’t lie to me anymore about the wait you had to endure. Why would you make up such rumours?
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You seem to be confusing migrants and refugees. They are not the same thing.
When people talk about queue jumping they are generally referring to refugees arriving without documentation (usually by boat) versus refugees being settled through the UN resettlement program. Both methods are perfectly legal. Generally people arriving by boat do not have access to the UN programs, thus their decision to flee by boat.
I say again, there is no queue.
You can read more about this here: http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/comments/24024/
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Hi Sandy – As someone who has submitted visa applications ranging from skilled, family to Ministerial Intervention, etc I’d say that unless your friends are parents of adult Australian citizens looking to claim permanent residency as that is an approx 15yr wait or have buggered up their applications some how, then something peculiar is happening with your friends.
People applying for humanitarian/refugee visas do not “queue jump” over those applying for other types. It’s completely different processing teams that handle those cases as they require completely different skill sets to effectively determine their eligibility. Those who are in detention are processed before refugee applicants who aren’t. As it should be as not only are taxpayers funding those centres but more importantly it’s not ideal for anyone to be detained for longer than necessary for many obvious reasons. But they’re not processed to the detriment of people who are applying via other non humanitarian streams.
In 2010/11 13,799 refugees were granted visas in Australia (last numbers I could find on the DIMIA website). Up 29 spots from the year before. In contrast 58,600 family visas were issued last year and 125,000 skilled visas. The highest rate of immigrants were from India, followed by China and then the UK. Immigration granted 2 fewer visas than they had even planned to last year.
Truthfully though I understand your frustration. As I said a few minutes ago I lived it myself and at the time thought many of the things you yourself have said. It felt like my baby and I were being made to suffer because other people were taking the ‘easy’ way out by just rocking up and here claiming to be a refugee. It was only until I received a forced education about the reality of this from a Red Cross worker who works with asylum seekers in Melbourne that I had to admit that I would’ve been waiting that long for a decision even if not one boat had appeared during those two years. The system needs work all around but sadly I can’t pretend to know how to fix it. My heart goes out to your friends and I wish them the best of luck they get their applications resolved sooner than later. I wouldn’t wish immigration hell on anyone.
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What rubbish.
If the Rudd Government had kept the Howard Government’s policy on asylum seekers there wouldn’t be the need to spend 4 billion dollars a year on them.
That money could have gone to reducing taxes on hardworking people, or to building more public housing, or funding the CSIRO in ridding the river system of European Carp, or any other number of useful programs to benefit Australian Citizens.
There’s no advantage to labeling people as xenophobic either, that is nothing but devicive, and inflammatory. It’s not about racism, it’s about the Government’s inability to control spending, particularly on a problem that was created by itself.
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European carp? Seriously?
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@carz, why should sandy open her home to these poor unfortunate families, whilst giving these immigrants & refugees homes. The people already living in this county need to be supported & looked after
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I think you need to spend some time in a third world country, or at least try to get some perspective about this. I came back from volunteering in Kenya just recently and it truly blew my mind. I was at a preschool, and the children had just one set of clothes. They were closer to rags then clothes really – often shoes were held together with tape and one child’s pants were so big that he had to use one hand to hold them up all the time. They had zero toys – they actually played with old discarded bike tires and bits of rope. They had access to extremely limited health care and education. Keep in mind that this isn’t even a ‘war-torn’ country, so to speak. Imagine throwing in the constant threat of death into that mix.
In all respect of your daughters situation – their are refugee families that really need our help. Dental care would be an unheard of luxury to them, and certainly the last of their concerns. I really feel for the two women you mentioned, but clearly if their stories are making paper it’s fair to say they are anomalies in our society.
As has been mentioned before – there is no such thing as a ‘queue’ when it comes to refugees. They are entitled to seek refuge any way they can. What would you do if your family was facing the same fear/hardship/threat of death that refugees face? If you had the money, would you not try and seek refuge in the quickest way possible?
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Sandy, if your priorities are public housing and subsidised dental care I’m a little confused with your decision to vote LNP? At the moment it’s the Greens who are pushing for families like yours to be covered by Medicare-like dental health funding.
And like the others have said, funding doesn’t need to be at the expense of asylum seekers. The federal government is spending $370 million to host the G20 summit in Brisbane in 2014, maybe we could start with that cash…
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Why not care about PEOPLE – no matter where your from. What makes Australians any more deserving of sympathy and support then anyone else?
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I respect your stance on refugees, but if you truly care about those Aussie families you mentioned, I plead with all my heart with you not to vote LNP. When the LNP came to power here in Queensland the first things they did were cutting Government housing, getting rid of programs which trained Aussies who otherwise would have no employable skills, cut thousands upon thousands of Government jobs, many of whom belonged to people who were supporting their kids or their partners and opposed funding a National Disability Insurance Scheme. While the ALP will not always make the right choice, the LNP will always rather pay back the banks than give the most at-risk Australians the support they need.
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What’s the difference between your “Stiff shit, unlucky” attitude to people fleeing and people on hard times here, apart from the colour of their skin? Any way you look at it, our hard times are still waaaaaaaay better than their hard times.
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What on earth is the point of a non working visa??!! We have to advertise overseas because we have skill shortages and a lot of jobs that Australians just won’t do. Yet we have people despreatly wanting to come to this country to save their and their families lives and we won’t allow them to help out? Five years?! That has got to be the stupidest most illogical thing I’ve ever heard! Altho mandatory detention is insane too. Let’s lock up traumatized people for a large amount of time and make it almost impossible for them to integrate into our society. This is just shameful and I can’t believe it’s happening in our country. People get so scared of refugees but if you treat people with warmth and kindness you will get it back. In an economic sense we could view these people as investments. They have a lot to bring to the table, we could learn and grow like a proper multicultural society! I hate that we are a multicultural society and we don’t even use it to our advantage. We try and force everyone into the “white” mould. America did that and look many problems they have. I really don’t want a divided nation.
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Absolutely – these people are tenacious enough to get here, let them work when they do. They’d be great employees.
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I think the rate of refugee’s flowing into this country and every other country in the world would slow right down if the illegal and immoral wars were stopped immediately If we remain in Afghanistan and Iraq we should be prepared to take in the refugees who are escaping form a hell on earth of our own making. All the reasons put forward for going to war have been proven to false.
And what about those drones – Would you live in an area they regularly patrol? No way would I subject my family to that and not look at any means of escaping, by hook or by crook!
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I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I have heard a lot of racist rants from boorish middled aged people this week.
where does the venom come from? Especially in our little country town without a refugee in site.. Bigger political concerns closer to their lives would be healthcare and crappy access to basic services.
I wish the government would quietly go about doing the right thing- what ever that is and avoid the politicalisation of it- not sure pandering to popularity when people’s lives are involved is a good thing.
I do feel very conflicted on the issue. On one hand I do understand people coming here for a better life. On the other I think of those kids in Somalia without family or money- they don’t get to hop on boats and arrive and they are in significantly worse conditions then the refugees from Afganistan and Shri Lanka. I can’t help but feel if thousands of people arrive by boat 1000′s of people in worse conditions will die as on certain numbers of people are allowed to stay.
It is harsh to see these measures and very unpleasant for those people but it is a means to and end- slowing down arrivals which is a cruel to be kind scenario – we don’t want drownings, we don’t want huge numbers of people arriving this way. We want those in the most danger to be safe.
Increasing entry to 50000 per year sounds reasonable.
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If we welcomed every refugee arriving by boat we will soon have millions of people coming by boat! We have to be able to control the number of people entering & staying in Australia! I think that the Navy should stop all boats from coming here & the people smuggling trade should be stopped. This situation has gone on for far too long & is out of hand & costing far too much money! I don’t understand why it takes so long to process a claim to asylum! Surely our great politicians can come up with a humane & sensible solution!
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Hear, Hear!!
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Did you realise that those who over-stay their visas, many of whom are from the USA, UK and Ireland, actually far outweigh the number of asylum seekers who come by boats?
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Yes but the visa overstayers can’t claim Residency or Citizenship, Centrelink payments or Medicare etc & eventually will go back to their own country & families. The refugees once granted asylum will then bring over their extended families.
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I used to feel so proud to call myself Australian..not any more. We are all so incredibly lucky and yet it appears we’re getting to be so mean spirited. Its very sad. Most of us are ‘refugees’, other than the indigenous people of course and we’ve managed to be pretty mean to them as well…who’d be a proud Aussie!!
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I’m a proud Aussie and I always will be. Doesn’t mean I like or condone the behaviour of more than a few, but the majority of Australians are warm, generous, giving, caring, empathetic and sympathetic. Don’t make us all out to be bad guys, cause there are a damn lot of fantastic people here, doing a whole lot of good everyday.
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I can’t remember ever feeling as depressed and despondent about the Australian political climate as I am now.
When John Howard was in power I was angry and vocal in my criticism of government policy on this issue. Back then I was sure that if debate was encouraged it could make a difference. I thought that if Australian people had a better insight into the genuinely devastating plight of the majority of people who need to seek asylum they would, I don’t know…care? Give a shit?
I believed that if Aussies saw beyond the shock jock scare-mongering, to the human reality of asylum seekers and refugees it would make a difference. That if people had access to the facts about the actual numbers of people arriving here compared to elsewhere in the world it would make a difference. If we had better insight into what and why asylum seekers were fleeing, it would make a difference. That if we could put into perspective the number of people coming here, compared to so many other countries in the world, it would make a difference.
Because after all, we’re the land of the fair go, aren’t we? We look out for the battlers, don’t we?
But Mamamia is not a voice in the wilderness, the facts and realities on this issue have been offered to the public through many different media channels. But it seems the people of Australia would rather not hear. We’re too busy listening to the scare-mongers telling us that if we open our hearts, or our borders, to these people in need, it might come at a cost to ourselves. Our politics over the last decade has increasingly reflected that. Politicians want to be re-elected, and with our poll-driven political landscape it seems both major parties have decided the best way to do this is abandon any moral high ground (and our international obligations) and scurry to devise the most inhumane, punitive, compassionless policy possible for dealing with asylum seekers.
And I’m depressed because I see so few ways to voice my objection, let alone make a difference.
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Personally I think the people stuck in the camps who have been waiting for years should get first go but of course anyone with an opposing view to this debate will get slapped with the racist label. If you live here and pay taxes then you are entitled to have any opinion you want on this subject regardless of your background.
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The system doesn’t work like that. Its a complicated mix of refugee quotas and the personal situation of asylum seekers and the situation in their country of origin. This quote from The Conversation (website link in Mia’s article) explains it well:
The reason why some wait years for resettlement is not due to any “queue” or “no advantage test” but simply about quotas. Australia has now increased the total program to 20,000 places, onshore and offshore together. So when the number of visas to be issued is reached in a certain year, other cases are left in an administrative storage until the next visa year begins.
The number of visas and the allocation to various regions can vary from year to year. Some years the priority has been on African cases, sometimes on the Middle East. It is not as if you receive a number and wait for your number to be called. Refugee A’s case may be identified to be in urgent need of resettlement due to the facts of the case, so A may be resettled more quickly than B who arrived at the UNHCR office the same day. Then the next year, C is resettled before B because C is from a minority at high risk due to the new circumstances in the country.
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I’m with you red queen. Having heard enough personal stories of refugee camps, I would like to see as many refugees as possible from our yearly “quota” come from there.
There’s refugee camps in every troubled region in the world, @ bleak. Surely enough people from there to Prioritise on identified needs.
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Yes, I don’t want to be identified for this discussion. There is too much emotion and not enough rational discussion on this issue. And after that very emotive opening paragraph by Mia, I would not dare oppose the party line.
And if I were to mention that I might support the policies of either of the political parties, it becomes a personal attack on Tony/Julia (depending upon where the rabid views are this week).
What do I actually think? That would be simply too difficult to put down in a couple of paragraphs on this blog because this is a very complex issue. And sometimes it would sound as if I was on one side, and the next minute it would sound as if I was on the other, because I am not an extremist and there are shades of grey here.
Not that it matters. I am not going to solve this problem and it probably won’t be solved in my lifetime.
But isn’t it a shame that we can’t have the discussion without calling each other names.
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This is just disgraceful from our government, even worse by the opposition. It makes me so angry I can’t even articulate a comment. Whatever happened to compassion being a virtue. We are such a racist and ignorant country.
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this issue makes me sad and cranky. i have less than many people in this “lucky” country … much much less … but i do not believe that keeping the little i have to myself, and refusing to share, is truly in my best interests, or the interests of those less fortunate than myself. fortune is not about material security, how many welfare dollars we spend on others, how fragile our economy is, how rare our jobs. Our society is changing, we are globalising, for better or worse, we need to change our paradigm to accept that we are no longer an island that can only be reached by the invaders, colonisers, adventurers or tourists … we are fast becoming a country of such social dysfunction, that i’m not sure we’ll ever heal from the money centric idealisation we have created for ourselves. just as refugees are not worth the money they pay, bring, or claim in welfare, neither are we worth the money we can make, save, or stand to lose to others who may or may not need it. we are bigger than money, and we need to stop processing people’s lives through this lens of finance and national economy. value is not financial. it is exchangeable, transferrable, and transformative. people are not dollars. people use dollars. exchange them, transfer them and transform them. we should not be judging the people who claim such small amounts of our welfare dollars or what they use their dollars for, and how they justify it, but rather be asking our very privileged, affluent people what they use their dollars for … and what exactly they’re doing to transfer and transform the value of humans … I only say we should look to the protected elite for some explanation regarding their use of power, because we currently live in an economic paradigm that equates money with power and recognises it as such in most domains … however, if we can transform our paradigm and abandon economy as a base line, then we can start looking to our innovators, our educators, our charitable and our Aboriginal hosts, and we will find so many solutions to our problems that will never require these petty discussions about money again …
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We are a heartless, ignorant, racist country. There is no doubt that our immigration policies are racially biased to the extreme. Our largest volume of “illegals” are the 30,000 visa overstayers each year (vs under 10,000 illegal asylum seekers). Never detained, never reprimanded, never even deported – they mostly end up getting PR here no matter how long they have been living and WORKING here illegally. The are never even mentioned really – even though these are the people who really do “come here and take our jobs”. Because they are mostly white skinned. If you work in a corporate or a store, next time you are working next to a person with a British accent ask them if they have been asked to prove they are entitled to work here? I bet you they haven’t.
I on the other hand am a dark skinned Australian who was born here and speak with the strongest Aussie accent you will ever hear. Yet I get asked, regularly. And suspect I often still lose jobs to people with western surnames because the first thing at the top of my résumé is my very ethnic one.
White Australia loves to pretend our country is not like this. My closest white friends tell me I am deranged or being too sensitive when I share my experiences of racism, which still happen all the time. They feign outrage at the events on that Melbourne bus this week but they are truly commonplace if your skin ain’t white.
As I said I was born in this country but will sadly never understand or love it. Sometimes I wish I could “go back to where I came from” as I am so often told to do. It’s just sad for me that is Gosford, and I have no legal right to go anywhere else.
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My family has been here since European settlement and we have a very Scottish surname. About every second week, I get bombarded with the same questions. “How long have you lived in Australia?” – “I can’t hear any Scottish tones in your accent, you must have lived here for a while” – “With a name like that you must be a Scot”. It’s not uncommon and it’s not isolated to those with ‘ethnic’ surnames. I’ve travelled to every state and territory in this wonderful country, and I’ve been asked these questions in every one of them. So, personally, I think it’s a very Australian type of question. However, that doesn’t excuse it from being rude.
I was turned down from a job at an airport cafe, because I “looked and sounded too Australian” and that may be “off-putting to Middle Eastern and Indian travellers”. Stereotypical judgment and bias isn’t just focused on those with Eastern sounding names, or darker skin. I think it’s really important that people realise this.
I don’t believe we are a heartless country, just look at the aid we get foreign countries for example. I’m not going to get into detail, because anyone can Google the stats for themselves. Not every Australia complies with the stereotype, and it’s rude to think that they do. What a lot of people don’t realise, is that there are a lot of Australian’s doing it really tough, and before people criticise this, I mean every Australian, regardless of their ethnicity. You lose your job, because it’s cheaper for your employer to hire Korean workers, or it’s cheaper to for them to hire English backpackers etc. I don’t get any support from Centrelink, absolutely nothing. My mother is disabled and requires help, but my Father earns $500 over the cut off limit and therefore we get no assistance. I left my part time job to help around the house while I study full time, via distance uni. I’m currently living off my savings, which are running out very quickly.
Focus needs to be put onto Australians. Those with disabilities, those who are unable to help themselves and those who just need general assistance with their lives. Perhaps, more help with those who have money issues, benefits to help their children at school, free immunisation, etc. Because there are a lot of people who are working poor, and it’s not just a myth like some people believe it is. We need to help and focus our attention and support to every Australian, regardless of their race, ethnicity or profession, if they need the assistance they should get it.
By helping every Australian have more better and stable life, their attitudes would change and they would be more acceptable and supportive of those who are doing it tough around the world, and they would be more accepting of asylum seekers. I truly believe this.
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sorry to break this to you, but as my Korean husband will attest, jobs arent getting stolen by koreans who are willing to work for less. Koreans who come here legitimately on working holiday visas struggle to find the jobs the working holiday program promotes to them. They get stuck working in kitchens and sushi shops owned by koreans, working for $8 per hour. Usually they are expected to work 11hr days, 6 days per week. If you weren’t working for a dodgy korean boss in a restaurant or rolling sushi, chances are your job wasnt and wont be stolen by a korean.
Furthermore, These dodgy bosses are the reason it is easy to eat such cheap sushi in major cities. If they paid the staff properly and consequently increased prices, you’d probably complain too.
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Where I am from, the local factory employs approx 200 locals, who last month lost their jobs to Korean workers. The Koreans are put on a bus from another town and driven to and from work everyday. And people think this doesn’t happen…
It’s not like I’m against people with working visas, but when local people lose their jobs because of it, that’s what’s ridiculous about the whole situation.
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and the sad thing is, those koreans are also being exploited. Protections should be put in so they can also be guaranteed proper working conditions and this sort of thing wouldn’t be possible.
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you and your husband should report all these kitchens and sushi shops that you know about that are doing this. I don’t care about cheap sushi, but I do care about workers rights. They deserve at least the adult minimum per hour. It is your obligation to report them, it’s the law.
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It is no cheaper to hire someone from overseas. Employers must pay a minimum wage. And if they don’t pay it, they they are breaking the law.
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I agree we are a heartless, ignorant country filled with many people from all nationalities who are just as heartless and ignorant as those born here. I have a port wine stain that covers half my face, I have copped comments, looks and everything else in between from all of you, my entire life. You’re all as bad as each other in my books.
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All of us?
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alright, not all of you, but a whole lot of you. My point was that people in general, doesn’t matter where you’re from or the colour of your skin, or your accent, you all can be just as bad as the ‘ignorant heartless white Aussie’, that always gets mentioned in this debate. That is just my experience with all types of people from all walks of life. I think everybody, and I mean everybody, could be a little more tolerant, and whole lot nicer.
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I do have sympathies with genuine refugees whichever way they have arrived, but we have our own backyard to clean up too, lets not forget. Old age pensioners, homeless and those on the poverty line, shouldn’t we try to fix these problems first, and then we’ll be in a better position to help refugees.
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we can do both…. the number of actual refugees (as opposed to immigrants) entering Australia is very small. I think a lot of people are influenced in their opinions by the scale of this issue in political debates and the media…because it is talked about a lot, a lot of people think the ‘refugee’ issue is huge. Immigration is a different issue altogether and a lot of people put it in the same basket.
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Nothing irritates me more than that argument. Why is it always the refugees v our homeless/pensioners. Why not cut the money from the budget that funded all of our Olympic athletes or the politicians travel budget or some other area that is emotive as this one. Do you really think that if we stop letting refugees in all of our problems with homelessness and poverty will evaporate?
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I don’t think all our problems will evaporate, but, it might make the pensioners, homeless, indigenous , those living below the poverty line a little more understanding maybe. When we see on tv these people getting everything including medical, dental, food, accommodation, even cigarettes for goodness sake, it makes people who are struggling to pay their bills, getting their electricity cut off, can’t adford to see a dentist, pay for their medications etc, a little annoyed maybe.
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On tv? What, on 60 minutes? This makes me angry, it is so damn misleading. Refugees do not get anywhere close to the same entitlements to permanent residents let alone dental benefits. Absolute nonsense.
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I really hate this tripe that gets sent out about refugees. I’ve known a few people that have worked in detention centres, so my info is 3rd hand, but I believe the accommodation in them is basic, but probably better than what most come from. Happy to be corrected here.
As for those living here as accepted refugees, they get no more from the govt than anyone else. Refugees are only to happy to show any paperwork, so I’ve seen the evidence for myself.
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Super ‘like’ your comment. What is feeling ‘national pride’ over watching an elite sports person achieve their personal goals worth versus giving some of the worlds most vulnerable people a chance at a decent life?
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There is no reason why we can’t look after ALL the vulnerable people in our society. We are a wealthy country.
Politicians in this country are happy to spend money on “deterrents” (off shore detention centres) that are an expensive and unnecessary “solution”. The reason they are happy to do this is for political gain. They don’t believe the electorate will support more humane (and probably less expensive) solutions and that’s what this is about.
Certain parts of the media have whipped up a frenzy of fear and anger about a problem that doesn’t really exist. We are not “overrun” by refugees. Refugees make up a tiny part of our population. Australia is not the only country which takes refugees. In fact we can hardly claim to be pulling our weight internationally with other developed countries taking on much greater numbers than we do.
it’s not a matter of spending money on the homeless/old age pensioners OR refugees. Spending on one group does not negatively impact on the other.
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Finally able to comment as a member!! Since the big change at Mamamia, I haven’t been able to comment on the articles unless I signed up… a bit confusing for someone who has been participating for a good 3 years!
Anyway, the refugee issue is one that shames me greatly as an Australian/French citizen. In France refugees are granted temporary visa and are allowed to move freely. The rate of immigration in France, as I remember, is much higher than that of Australia, especially if you consider the density of the population compared to the country’s size. I feel it is cruel and inhuman to inflict these conditions (detention etc) on people who are trying to escape life-threatening circumstances in their own countries. I especially cannot understand this when I know the economical status of Australia. I am a low income earner but am thankful for everything I have here. My daughter is 2 1/2 years old and on all the surrounding childcare waiting lists so I cannot yet go back to work. I recently left her father and have to live in a tiny one bedroom flat with my daughter. We have food, shelter, no car but we can (sort of) afford everything else except travel. I am more than happy to see refugees with temporary visas in Australia if it means their lives and those of their innocent children will be saved. As someone else mentioned below: what would we do if a civil war broke out in Australia and we had to flee for our lives? We would have to depend on the goodwill of a country like ours.
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I wish that there could actually be a proper debate and policies on this issue. I don’t like the nastiness that this issue brings out.
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Can I just suggest as well – if you feel, as I do, that we should care more about the plight of refugees coming to Australia, that you take some action? Even sending a letter/email to your local MP. I know I’m often guilty of just talking about my views, whereas I should be trying to do more.
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I can’t understand why Australia is so caught up in ensuring ‘boat people’ don’t arrive on our shores or integrate with the community. We are like a petulant child that doesn’t want to share our toys.
Let’s just pretend for a moment that a terrible war broke out in Australia – the kind of war that is/has been going on in Afghanistan. Would you not do everything you could to get you and your family to another country? Would you not scrape together whatever money you could and pay your way if you had the option? Or would you just think ‘Oh no, we had better do the right thing and wait around in a refugee camp for a few years, and just hope that eventually we get processed and given a visa’
And if that were the case, how would we view the ‘people smugglers’? Perhaps less as the most evil of criminals?
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Could not have said it better myself, Laurenrae
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I understand and agree that refugees must be looked after.
I think many Australians are up in arms about illegal immigrants because they challenge the idea of fairness which is so strong in Australia.
Not that we shouldn’t look after poor people fleeing for their very lives…But that some of these people are not true refugees, just people who have skipped the paperwork and waiting; through ignorance or greed for a better life; and that they get given work, get given monetary support, housing, and whatever; when we are struggling as the working poor to afford to pay taxes to support them. I see both sides of the story.
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How silly of them to skip paperwork in their war-torn countries with the threat of death hanging over their heads every minute of the day, why don’t they just pop on over to the local emmigration office? they are sooo greedy to want to live somewhere and have basic human rights…
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“the threat of death hanging over their heads every minute of every day”, yet the majority leave their wives and children behind to fend for themselves to face the threat of death everyday, sometimes for years on end.
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I don’t think that there’ll ever be a proper & fair agreement on this issue, not while people are so heartless.
The “White Australia Policy” was supported by people who are still around today and while it was partly fuelled by people who had been affected by World War 11 (anti-Japanese) – it showed a naivety of Australia’s geographical position……We’re in the middle of Asia.
Those boats are not going to stop coming and there’s nothing that either side of politics will be able to do…….it’s a world-wide problem.
At the moment, there’s nothing that Tony Abbot can do – he’s not our leader and he’s not privy to National secrecy or International discussions – he’s just making a lot of “point-scoring”noise and getting in the way of extending genuine help to these vulnerable, tormented human beings.
Allowing little children to be raised in these filthy, anger-fuelled camps is going to produce angry, dysfunctional teenagers – they’re hardly going to emerge from those camps as well-educated, emotionally-nourished citizens with gratitude to Australia for helping them and their traumatised parents.
All countries have (or will have) a refugee problem and all countries have to learn how to manage it.
The people I’ve encountered who’ve ranted the most about this subject are woefully under-educated, with little or no empathy for refugees……..their lack of knowledge about the horrors existing in other countries is creating an ugly, mean spirited culture where the deeply stupid accusations of “cue-jumping” (in countries where society’s broken down and “there are no cues”) reveal their red-necked ignorance.
Separate living places for women & children might be helpful (with visitation from their fathers & teenage brothers)……increasing their benefits so that they can actually survive in an Australian community (that’s where they’ll spend that money), setting up skills & educational courses to prepare them for “life on the outside” (prisoners get that at least) and KINDNESS.
We’re all assuming that the hell they’ve escaped from would NEVER happen here……well I hope we’re assuming correctly and don’t one day find ourselves handing over our savings to some mongrel with a leaky boat.
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it’s queue jumping, not cue jumping. So are you saying there is no actual proper way of entering Australia legally by applying for refugee status, you have to come by paying thousands of dollars, on a boat , and on the way “lose” your passport / identity papers?
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that’s exactly right. there is no “proper” way to come to Australia. Australia is a signatory to the UN convention that sanctions asylum seeking by whichever arrival one comes to manage. And many people do not have papers … ever … to begin with … no records of their births, no records of their existence … tis a sad crazy world in war torn countries, where famine, destruction and political mayhem reign. bless all who come to our shores … our inappropriately indigenously exclusive, anthem declares it so …
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Where do the 13 750 refugees come from that do get granted refugee status then? I thought they were in refugee camps and came here by applying and waiting for approval for refugee status. They must be a little peeved at those that have the money and decided to enter Australia without going through the same procedures and waiting for approval.
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i think that after waiting years in refugee camps (in some pretty horrible and almost famine like conditions) that the only thing they may be peeved about is that they didn’t have the resources to hasten their own exit. not all refugees are created equal. some have family ties and resources that mean they prefer a slower/safer process, and maybe they can reach a refugee camp, and maybe they trust the people there and trust the process. i think children are at high risk of dying in refugee camps, from malnutrition/diseases/trauma. i’m not sure what you’re asking, as i don’t know many refugees, only those who work with them, and i haven’t asked every one each of their stories. i only know that each person/family have different circumstances, come from different countries, different wars, different levels of risk/danger, political/religious persecution, values, beliefs, faith in others, access to resources, money, help, aide, comfort. And, that all these things will influence a decision a person makes. I think that refugees are individuals, not a homogenous group with similar thoughts, feelings, connections etc. i think, just as i think differently to yourself, refugees may think differently to each other, and make different choices … depending on their knowledge, circumstances, ability to educate themselves, free themselves, whilst maintaining as much safety as they feel they can manage, or risk. Also, there is no accounting for the damage trauma does to a person’s frontal lobe development either … trauma, brain development and ptsd … All affect risk taking behaviour, frontal lobe higher order decision making … basically if a person has experienced trauma, especially in formative years, as one may if starving as a child, or neglected, or terrorised, tortured or abandoned, then one pretty much runs their entire life on fear impulses … we have our own trauma victims in our neglected children in our own country … i’d like to offer our country as a healing place to as many people who need the safety we can offer, as we can literally hold … and i’d like to put absolutely no boundaries on that at all … that’s just me … i’m kinda about the love like that …
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I think I love you Sigh haha. If only everyone had the ability to think the way you do…
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This is just horrible. Our leaders are pandering to our selfish fears instead of our generosity and our international obligation to provide refuge. This decision is both cruel and stupid.
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I’m brave.
Australia is a racist country. Full stop. Not every individual, but enough.
Therefore, this is always a hard sell, and no agreement will ever be possible.
Neither party is offering an appropriate solution.
Let’s welcome the asylum seekers. Invite them into our country, our workplaces, and our homes. Process their claims in, and on, this country. If needs be, establish a refugee camp somewhere in the north west (simply to be close the point of arrival) and get on with it.
1) They are not illegal
2) There is no queue
3) Australia ranks below 20th in countries which accept refugees – regardless of which measure you use
4) Eighty-four per cent of arrivals are legitimate refugees – the figure is much higher (in the 90s) for those who arrive by boat
Our Indigenous cousins aside, every one of us is here because an ancestor was seeking asylum from somewhere else. What a shame we cannot remember that, and respond accordingly.
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Beautiful.
Yes I think we forget that all those ‘numbers’ ‘boat arrivals’ actually represent human lives. People with hopes and dreams, fears, favourite foods, real people like us. People born in scary and dangerous places by the same ‘luck’ that we were born in Australia.
The most appalling part I’ve heard this week, is that Mr Abbott also wants these people to work for that $400 per fortnight they are expected to live off! Firstly, that’s not a fair or liveable wage, secondly there’s no evidence that these people aren’t willing to work hard as Australians (noone wants their children to suffer as they have, refugees tend to embrace the chance of a better life)
Why not focus instead on providing language and skills training? And let them work or at LEAST give them enough welfare that they could survive!
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I know single people on new start allowance who get that, so why should they get more than those already here who get that amount and have to get by? They also have to work for the dole to receive that too, no different. But you are right it is an appalling amount and not enough to live off, but just like pensioners who are treated like second class citizens here, they all have to try and get by.
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Actually newstart allowance is just over $300/week, and the only thing you have to do to get it is prove that you are searching for work.
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actually the maximum newstart allowance for a single person no kids is $492.60 a fortnight. That is a fact, check it out on the government / centrelink website.
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wow, it wasn’t that low before. I know, i have been on it. That is awful. And the coalition wants to pay new mothers a replacement maternity wage while some have to live on this. What a disgrace.
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I’ve been on Newstart. I don’t think it is a fair and reasonable or liveable payment either. But this discussion is about refugees, not a comparison of refugees and others on welfare (trust me, I’m on the side of compassion)
The only thing I would ask you to remember is, that whilst the unemployed have an undoubtedly difficult time finding work, this proposal is to have refugees live on this welfare for 5 years with no legal option to work even if they could find it..
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I agree, however you need to remember our history.
Not every one of our ancestors came here for a better life or were seeking asylum from elsewhere. A lot were physically forced out of their home country in shackles and they were treated appallingly, if they were lucky they got on a decent ship, with a decent Captain. If they weren’t lucky, they were treated to similar conditions like African slaves. They were transported here because their own Government and country didn’t want them and didn’t bother to support them. It’s important to remember this.
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actually that’s how my family came to be here, but noone from that generation is still alive to be angry about it, and I feel quite grateful for the cow they stole- England is too cold for me. Still, someone born in Australia is born here by chance, not skill.
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My family were convicts too. Henry Kable & Susanna Holmes. Any relatives on here? There are a lot of us!
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Historian, I’m not sure of the point you are trying to make. I’m not sure why this is relevant. Can you clarify for me?
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My friend was born in a refugee camp in Malaysia. Her family fled Vietnam after the war with nothing. They waited in the refugee camp for many years before being sponsored by the Catholic Church to come to Australia.
They certainly didn’t have the money to pay people smugglers. They waited their turn. They were desperate.
They were every bit as desperate as those who could pay.
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There is no orderly queue. Your friend’s family got lucky, surely you can see that? If they had come into some money and taken a chance on people smugglers, you would be telling a different story here about how your friends family, in absolute desperation, spent the last of their savings to board a rickety boat and were lucky to arrive in Australia and be given refugee status. How it was their last chance, and the gamble paid off.
Your friends family could just as easily not have been sponsored by the church, and they could just as easily be dead and you’d never have met them. Think about that. It’s not black and white.
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My Dad arrived as a 7 year old refugee from (the former) Yugoslavia after WW2. He and his father lived in refugee accommodation (like military barracks) in Melbourne but they weren’t locked up. Dad went to school, Grandpa went to work (mostly labouring until he found work as a printer, which was his trade in Europe). They were helped by the local Croatian community until they found their feet. Call me naive, but if we’ve done it before, why can’t we do it again? I hate to think it’s because most refugees these days aren’t of European heritage …
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My background is similar to yours Kate. My dad came here at 6 years old, he was Russian but lived in China and had to escape the Japanese. He was supported by the Salvos when he got here and still donates to them over 70 years later as his family would not have survived without their help. He was a hardworking Australian until he retired comfortably at 65. Refugees don’t come here to have an easy life living off the Australian people, they come here to have a better life no longer in fear of persecution. I have spoken to many people about my fathers heritage and the ones who are against refugees have actually told me its ok as he was white. When did this country become so heartless about other human beings. All the people saying we can’t afford them have obviously never had interactions with refugees and listen to the xenophobic talk coming from both sides of politics. It saddens me to think this great country that gave my family a better life has become so heartless to those less fortunate.
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When your family arrived after WW2 Aust needed that influx. There was a boom and a period of prosperity for Australia. Then the Snowy Mountains Scheme etc etc. It is very well documented in history.
Very different economic times to now.
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I get that, Guest, but you could argue that our post war prosperity was largely BECAUSE of the influx of immigrants and the post-war optimistic build build build attitude of the government. Many, many of the workers on the Snowy River Scheme were non-English speacking migrants.
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There was an economic boom worldwide not just Australia. Housing boom was created by returning servicemen …. hence the baby boom.
The main reason for opening up our doors thou, initally, was to populate Australia for purposes of defence (Chifley). The brits couldn`t meet our expected quota so we looked at displaced Europeans.
Thousands of Aussies died in WW2, our population was dwindling & the birth rate had reduced due to WW2
70% of all the workers on the Snowy River scheme were migrants, we did not have the resources in Australia to employ the numbers required.
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Just a point of diffenrence – the post war prosperity had more to do with the government’s need to spend money on infrastructure (water, electricity, new technology, the baby boom as men returned from war etc) than the influx of migrants.
You can argue, chicken: egg. I would argue, the cock crowing does not make the sun come up.
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I blame Tony Abbott and his relentless negativity for this. If he wasn’t trying to score a few cheap political points over the refugees (which is totally not the Government’s fault by the way) then the Government wouldn’t have to respond in this way.
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I thought the Gillard govt were in power? When did Tony get to make the decisions?
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it’s about the seats in parliament. With an even split between liberal and labour, they actually have similar voting power to move things through parliament, and nothing really gets through unless they both agree … or the independents side either way … (is this fair comment politics knowledgeables?)
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I think that with the balance being so close (ie no overwhelming support either way) they both try and appeal to what they perceive as the middle ground groups, and unfortunately this is done by appealing to the xenophobic elements and using an easy target who can’t defend themselves – asylum seekers. Tony Abbott deserves blame for stirring shit up about asylum seekers and people making the journey here on boats. Labor deserve blame for not standing up as a true left, progressive party and doing the right thing rather than trying to appease the xenophobic element led by the shock jocks and abetted by the coalition.
Meanwhile those of us who are against either policy go to the Greens…
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I reckon Bowen is just as bad now. I didn’t mind him when they first came in, but, now I find him more and more extreme.
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Guest….it’s a cry that I hear often. When the government is after a scapegoat to explain it’s own shortcomings just yell Abbott, Abbott, Abbott !
How about an original argument for a change ?
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I’m exhausted by the discussion on refugees but that doesn’t mean I want to ignore it. I think we as a nation think we’re the only ones that need to manage the intake of refugees but we’re not. Can’t we look to other countries and see what they’re doing and try and learn from them? Italy receives many African refugess on its shores every year. Let’s not have this mentality as a nation (fostered by ACA and Today Tonight) that Australia is under attack! For a nation of immigrants we’re pretty intolerant to those who are only seeking what our parents or our ancestors were – a peaceful and happy life.
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I don’t understand cutting refugees from camps – shouldn’t we be increasing them to send the message that ‘this is the easiest, cheapest, quickest way to get to Australia’.
I hate the no advantage idea, because the reality is there is an advantage. If you are fleeing for your life being locked up in physical safety is still an advantage.
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Less are coming on boats now? Didn`t some sri lankans actually ask to go back home after they were sent to naru? It took Julia a freekin long time to do something with boat after boat coming but it seems naru may finally deter the boat people. It just took her so long to accept that she was wrong about malaysia
I wonder if she went with her malaysia stragety like she wanted there would be even less refugees wanting to come.
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More than 7,000 people have arrived since the government made the announcement about Nauru and Manus Island (Aug 13).
A small number of Sri Lankans did return “voluntarily”, but a large number have been returned against their will and without being found to not be refugees. This is a breach of international law, and the UNHCR has condemned Australia for it. The government is assuming that anyone coming from Sri Lanka is not a refugee – but there is no way to determine this unless they are processed.
It’s ironic that we’d apply a blanket rule to a negative outcome but not a positive one. Ie, that just because you’re Hazara ethnicity, doesn’t mean you’re a refugee. But if you’re Sri Lankan, you’re definitely not a refugee.
Bizarre.
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As an aside, ‘The Lucky Country’ was intended to be ironic but the phrase has always been (incorrectly) used literally.
From the SMH in an obituary in 2005:
“I was about to write the last chapter of a book on Australia,” recalled Horne, who died yesterday, aged 83. “The opening sentence was, ‘Australia is a lucky country, run by second-rate people who share its luck.”‘
Thus it was that “a series of essays held together by a last-minute final thought about what it was all about” became the best-selling book The Lucky Country.
It was meant as an indictment of an unimaginative nation, its cosy provincialism, its cultural cringe and its White Australia policy. But much to Horne’s subsequent misery, many failed to detect his irony and many more, either wilfully or lazily, misinterpreted his words.
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I think the same thing is happening with ‘lest we forget’. Growing up I thought it meant lest we forget what a terrible thing war is, as in we should remember the past so we can avoid making the same mistakes again. These days it seems to have taken on an entirely different meaning. More like ‘lest we forget the sacrifices soldiers made for our nation and how brave they were and how grateful we should be’. Sometimes it seems almost like a celebration rather than a time of mourning. I know this is waaay off topic but your comment made me think of it.
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Exactly ..thanks for pointing this out..
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Such a depressing state of affairs. It will only get worse leading up to the election as Abbott appeals to the racist vote. Because at the end of the day this is about racism. Imagine boatloads of British families needing to flee. They would be meet with open arms.
Gillard has done the best she can with such a hostile opposition who constantly dog whistle.
Ashamed to live in such an uncaring country. We are something like 47th in the world for number of refugees we take (although Abbott would like us to believe we are inundated) and 11th richest.
Can you add in some of the graphs to illustrate the figures?
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Mia, I have nothing but respect for you, so please don’t get me wrong.
Do you realise the thousands of dollars these asylum seekers pay for their tickets? It doesn’t seem to me like they are in dire straits.
Genuine refugee’s are more then welcome in my books, but not the hundreds of men who pay enormous amounts to get on a leaky boat and come here to make money.
If I had $10,000 I would probably get on a boat too, but it would be onboard a P&0 cruise.
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This! I know of many people who came here by boats and paid their way and while they didnt have a dollar to their name they had gold in the lining of their clothes. Most who come by boats go on their own and then bring the family by plane so how desperate can they truly be if they can leave their family behind for a few months?
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Yeah, totally, that’s what the majority of refugees do…pack up their gold and take the ‘easy’ way here, just to take our jobs and make a fortune. Please, this is ridiculous and in NO way reflects the situation for the vast majority of people who flee to Australia.
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they risk their own lives to get here safely and then send for their family rather than risk their lives on the journey..
they spend everything they own on the chance of a better life – just think for a second how desperate they must be if an unknown journey that costs the sum of what they have is a better option than staying where they are..
And just for the record, I don’t think P&O pass by Afghanistan or the Sudan on the way to Australia
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Having the ability to pay smugglers does not mean that one isn’t a refugee. Not all refugees are poor – there’s nothing in the refugee definition (look up the Convention) about your economic ability. Refugee status has nothing to do with that. Those that do struggle financially do absolutely everything they can do get that kind of money together – sell everything they own, over a period of time. It’s not as cut and dry as we think.
Mia, like you I have been heartbroken this week. I can’t believe this race to the bottom that we are seeing (again). The situation in Nauru is devastating, especially the latest statement released to the asylum seekers there. There’s no way that the Nauruan government have the capacity to determine the status of these people – which has now been announced. It will certainly be years. The lies being peddled are just insane – there is no “average waiting time” for processing! And there is no regional commitment to processing and resettlement.
I’m so ashamed of our ‘leadership’ on this issue.
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Karli, I have read a lot of your comments on this topic and I just wanted to let you know that it heartens me that there are people out there like you. Makes me feel like there is some hope (even if it’s just a tiny glimmer.)
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Aww.. thanks Lisa, you’ve made my day!
I am one of those people who has challenged themselves on what they think about this issue – the reason I have arrived at my thinking is because I study this issue at a Masters level – looking in detail at not only our obligations and international systems of refugee determination, but also our Australian one, gives some real insight and perspective. Unfortunately a lot of this kind of information isn’t available in a format that’s easily digestible! I really think there are 2 key pieces here – 1 being education on the facts, and 2 being able to put human faces and experiences to these issues we consider “problems”.
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Refugee doesn’t mean ‘person with no money’. However, it isnt hard to imagine the lengths and duration required to pull together the money (not $10K) to save your family. The problem is our country is so lucky – we have actually gone beyond being able to imagine ourselves in their situation.
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ask old age pensioners, the ones who rely solely on the pension, how lucky they feel. How they sit in the dark because they can’t pay their electricity bills, eat bread and jam for dinner because there’s no money left for the fortnight to buy more food. Tell them they have it so easy and have no idea what it’s like to be desperate. They wouldn’t be able to scrape together $100 , let alone $10 000!!
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Yep, because having money really stops bullets from hitting your family, soldiers from raping your wife or daughters. Armies from ruining your business and razing your village.
Money is pretty magical like that.
Please. If you had $10k and the ability to change your families prospects would you really spend it on a p & o cruise?
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Sandy they are fleeing war-torn countries – it shouldn’t matter what their financial status is.
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They’re fleeing war torn countries and leave their wives and children behind.
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A refugee can be a doctor (Esp ones that see victims of torture and war and dare to say something) journalists a horrendous number of them have gone missing), teachers (who dare to say something) , government workers ( whistle blowers) , restaurant owners ( had some undesirables meet in your rest. Lately?) or anyone who says ‘the wrong thing’. This isn’t limited to uneducated peasants in rural areas. Yes, some people leave their country and their family and pay to hop on a boat. I don’t think it’s a wise decision but it doesn’t mean they’re not refugees.
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they risk their own lives to get here safely and then send for their family rather than risk their lives on the journey..
they spend everything they own on the chance of a better life – just think for a second how desperate they must be if an unknown journey that costs the sum of what they have is a better option than staying where they are..
And just for the record, I don’t think P&O pass by Afghanistan or the Sudan on the way to Australia
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