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Abortions News: Virginias forced vagina intrusions for abortions

Legislators pass the forced ultrasound bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Virginia’s vagina intrusion bill passes

The US state of Virignia has passed a bill which would require women to have a ‘transvaginal ultrasound’ if they wish to have an abortion. That’s it. No debate, no correspondence entered into. Website Daily Kos reported:

“The ultrasound legislation would constitute an unprecedented government mandate to insert vaginal ultrasonic probes into women as part of a state-ordered effort to dissuade them from terminating pregnancies, legislative opponents noted.

“We’re talking about inside a woman’s body,” Del. Charnielle Herring, a Democrat, said in an emotional floor speech. “This is the first time, if we pass this bill, that we will be dictating a medical procedure to a physician.”

The conservative Family Foundation hailed the ultrasound measure as an “update” to the state’s existing informed consent laws “with the most advanced medical technology available.”

The procedure is designed to guilt women into keeping their baby and serves no medical function.

Tiffiny Hall 380x275 News: Virginias forced vagina intrusions for abortions

Tiffiny Hall

Biggest Loser trainer Tiffiny Hall says she has ‘fat days’

The taekwondo and Biggest Loser trainer with a penchant for being tough as nails said during an interview even she had her off days. ”I don’t care what weight you are, I have days where I feel fat. I work on camera in white Lycra. I know I eat healthy but sometimes it’s just irrational. I’m not a model. I don’t look like a TV presenter – I’ve got muscles and a different sort of body type. We’ve all had the voice in your head that says, ‘You’re no good. You’re going to fail.’ Every woman knows what that feels like.” Hall’s father was an Olympic taekwondo trainer and she says she was used to going for early morning runs with him. “We’d get home and the juicer was always buzzing. It was built into our lives, so it was odd to join The Biggest Loser and meet people who thought that wasn’t normal.”

Worldwide scandal as think tank pays scientists to spread climate doubt

A United States think tank, with ties to influential figures around the world, is fighting claims it has orchestrated a campaign of human-inducted climate change ‘doubt’ which included efforts to discredit the science behind the theory in schools. The Heartland Institute stands accused of spending some $20 million so far on paying organisations and people to spread climate alarmism as part of a sustained campaign. Leaked documents show how widespread the problem is and name a prominent Australian scientist as a beneficiary of payments. As Fairfax reported:

The documents show geologist and marine researcher from James Cook University Professor Bob Carter receives a ”monthly payment” of $US1667 ($A1550), as part of a program to pay ”high-profile individuals who regularly and publicly counter the alarmist message”.

Professor Carter did not deny being paid by The Heartland Institute, but would not confirm the amount, or why it was paying him. He spoke at the ‘convoy of no confidence’ anti-carbon tax rally in Canberra last year.

”That suggestion is silly and offensive – a kindergarten-level argument,” he told The Age.

”Institutions or organisations simply pay for services rendered. In the same way that an architect is paid for their work, so are scientists.What they may make any payment to me for, I’m not discussing with anybody outside of my family.”

Heartland claimed one of the documents was a forgery, some ‘stolen’ and others ‘altered’.

Adele1 380x302 News: Virginias forced vagina intrusions for abortions

Adele

Adele wants to ‘f*ck off’ for five years?

Short answer: no. She collected six Grammys this week but singer Adele says she wants to take time out to do a happy record and get in the right frame of mind. She originally told US Vogue: “I am f*cking off for four or five years. If I am constantly working, my relationships fail. So at least now I can have enough time to write a happy record. And be in love and be happy. And then I don’t know what I’ll do. Get married. Have some kids. Plant a nice vegetable patch.” Adele had previously said on US television: “I can’t write another break-up record, that would be a real cliche. It would just be like a boring running theme. People would be like, ‘I’ve had enough, now cheer up.’” But she later jumped on her blog and clarified the ’5 years’ quote: “I’ve a few days off now, and then it’s the Brit Awards here at home and then I’m straight into the studio. 5 years? More like 5 days!”

Qantas places more than a thousand jobs ‘on review’

With a forecasted drop in profits following increased fuel bills and prolonged industrial action, Qantas is now looking at cost cutting … and that may mean cutting work. The jobs of 1460 maintenance workers are now under review in two Melbourne sites and one site in Brisbane. The jobs of hundreds of other staff – including those in back office roles and on flights – will go as the airline scraps unprofitable routes.

AndrewDemetriou 380x213 News: Virginias forced vagina intrusions for abortions

Andrew Demetriou

AFL produces DVD that teaches violence against women is bad

A training DVD for younger players coming through the ranks of the sport has been launched by AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou and Victorian Crime Prevention Minister Andrew McIntosh. The DVD – called Tackling the Tackle: Respect is for Everyone – would be shown to 1100 clubs with young players in Victoria with a national distribution to follow. Mr McIntosh said: “If we don’t address the issue of family violence it will create inter-generational crime, and lead no doubt to substance abuse, problems in relation to housing, mental illness and of course inter-generational violence, a significant driver of crime. We want to spread the message that violence against women will not be tolerated.” Former Melbourne player Russell Robertson hosts the program, which also features current AFL players including Harry O’Brien and Tom Scully, as well as Kangaroos coach Brad Scott. “As a man that has three sisters … hearing all the facts, it astounded me that my sisters have to live in a world where they live in fear sometimes,” he said.

Prime Minister says Indigenous targets are being met

Julia Gillard delivered the annual Government report into its progress in Closing the Gap – the catch-all name given to cross-government strategies to improve the wellbeing and education standards for all – and says it is mostly on track. Fairfax reported:

“Julia Gillard said the government was on track to meet its targets of halving the gap in mortality rates for children under 5 by 2018, and to provide access to early childhood education to all indigenous 4-year-olds in remote communities by next year. Ms Gillard said good progress had been made in halving the gap in literacy and numeracy results by 2018. She said faster improvement would be needed to meet targets to halve the gap in year 12 attainment rates by 2020 and halve the gap in employment outcomes by 2018, but the targets could be reached. Ms Gillard said the aim of closing the gap in life expectancy between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians by 2031 was the most challenging of the six targets, which the government committed to when then-prime minister Kevin Rudd delivered the national apology in 2008.” Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commissioner, Mick Gooda said a measure should be included that tracks criminal justice and particularly the number of Indigenous kids in jail.

 

Comments

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72 Comments so far

  1. GD Star Rating
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    JosieY

    I haven’t got past the first headline. Forcibly inserting something into someone’s vagina without their consent is RAPE. Incredible.

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      Cathy Crawley

      Agreed.

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      Erin

      I agree with your statement 100%. I think having an abortion would be distressing enough anyway without having to have something inserted into your vagina.
      I have always wondered though and have not wanted to ask my sisters who have been through it, why do they perform an ultrasound at all?
      I was horrified when my sister told me she had to have an ultra sound prior to her abortion…
      Anyway to bring in this legislation is to me just adding another level of trauma for women at a time that is already bad enough.

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        AB

        Apparently it is to confirm how far along the pregnancy is (there are risks of an incomplete termination if it is too early) and is also used to precisely locate area of the uterus the pregnancy is situated.

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        Anonymous

        It’s so they know how far along you are, and to check for any complications – eg ectopic pregnancy.

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    MissT

    Regarding this transvaginal ultrasound business, I’m a little confused. I don’t want to start a fight with anyone but as a woman who suffers from PCOS I have to have these regularly and they’re not as bad as a pap smear.

    I don’t understand why, if these are not medically necessary, they think this would have any impact at all on whether or not a woman will have an abortion?

    Surely the abortion itself is far more invasive than this procedure, which is painless and frankly not much worse than inserting a tampon? Not much more invasive than inserting a tampon either. Well, except for the whole ‘someone else is doing it’ bit.

    Is it the thinking behind this that is the issue? Is it because they want to show the woman the baby? Do you have to get a normal ultrasound prior to an abortion currently?

    Could someone please explain this in further detail? I really don’t understand.

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      detachableprincess

      Your penultimate paragraph is the key issue here, MissT. It’s not necessarily the *procedure* that’s the problem, it’s the *intent*. Basically, these…. so-and-so’s hope that by forcing a woman to see her foetus on ultrasound, to see a heartbeat and count fingers and toes, that she will change her mind about having an abortion. They’re projecting external guilt, fear and judgement over what should be a very private decision.

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      Rick Morton

      I don’t have a uterus but to me the offensive part of this is pretty obvious: the Republicans are shaming women into (maybe) keeping their babies if they make them look at them on an ultrasound. It’s not the procedure itself, it’s the fact it serves absolutely not medical function whatsoever apart from backing an ideology. And the bitter pill that goes with that is they’re forcing doctors to perform these procedures as well. For a party that so values individual liberties, that’s a massive departure…

      [I went into a meeting for 45 minutes in the middle of writing this and saw DetachP's comment but I'd written it so I pressed submit anyway!]

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      Kris2040

      I’ve had one of those ultrasounds, and it was no different to a regular one. I had it because I didn’t have enough water in my bladder to be able to see anything, so they had to go inside. I agree it’s not a big deal physically. And you do have to have an ultrasound before an abortion here (I did, I don’t think that’s changed). As you probably know, it’s not an any clearer ultrasound or anything. I had one with KDot where they just did the normal on the skin one and then did the internal one, but I can’t remember why.
      You wouldn’t need an internal ultrasound to see all the bits of the baby – the sonographer showed me all the bits on the screen at my 20 week scan – the one I had when preggo was at about 34 weeks to check for placenta praevia.

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        Cath

        Just letting you know, there is generally a huge difference between what you can see on abdominal and vaginal scans. The uterus, ovaries are much better seen through a vaginal probe as it is so much closer them.

        It would be necessary in early pregnancies (the period in which most women would have an abortion) to have a vaginal approach to see any sort of detail including the heartbeat. I’m a sonographer.

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          Kris2040

          Ah, that’s why they’re forcing vaginal then! Makes sense. Thanks, Cath!

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          Anonymous

          I’ve had 2 early abortions (3 and 6wks) and neither needed an internal scan to see what needed to be seen for the procedure.

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      Anonymous

      I find them very intrusive and uncomfortable, but then I have lots of issues surrounding them due to PTSD and rape. They are painful for me because I can’t relax and everything tenses up. They have triggered me into a dissociative state in the past. Now when I have them (I also have PCOS) they often medicate me beforehand. I think being *forced* to have one could extend any trauma the woman has experienced and put her off having an abortion.

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        Kris2040

        Which is exactly the point of forcing them to be done. To turn people off abortions.

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          Anonymous

          Yes, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Sorry if I wasn’t clear in my original post (long day!), I was just trying to provide a view that for some women it isn’t a painless procedure – both emotionally and physically.

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      Anon for this

      Im sorry that you have pcos – that sucks. But to say that these are not bad is just plain wrong. Perhaps for you they are just like a “tampon” but for those of us who can’t even use a tampon and who are physically sick with the pain of these ultrasounds, this comment is arrogant.

      In addition, why should anybody, ANYBODY, be forced to have something inserted in their body? It is rape where I come from. They can get ultrasound pictures of a foetus from outside, there is NO need to insert a probe into a woman’s vagina. RAPE. How dare they legislate such invasive procedures. I might add that I am not pro-abortion, but I am definitely for no violence against women which is what this is

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        Kris2040

        It’s not arrogant to speak from your own perspective and experience! I’ve had a couple of these internal ultrasounds, and I didn’t find them too uncomfortable either. I don’t think many people would. That isn’t saying that no-one finds them uncomfortable or painful. It’s just saying that we haven’t.

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          Anon for this

          Nobody knows what the woman next to them feels and forcing a probe into someone’s body goes against every grain of my being. This isn’t about how comfortable someone is with a procedure, this about legislating the insertion of an object into a woman’s vagina. Yes, legislating rape. I can’t understand how that is ok and I don’t think sweeping statements about comfort levels even need I be mentioned. Who cares if it is comfortable or not. Nobody has the right to insert something in anyone else’s body against their will. Even if they are seeking an abortion. What if he woman seeking an abortion is doing so as a result of being raped. They just perpetuate that trauma by effectively raping her again. Let’s just remember: this about legislating the insertion of an object into a woman’s vagina. INSIDE HER BODY.

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    Jamie

    Anyone else remember the episode of Biggest Loser last year where the trainers had to eat what the Losers ate? And Tiffiny was in hysterics sobbing about how she’d treated her body ‘like an ashtray’, how horrible she felt, how much exercise she’d have to do not to let her dinner make her fat?

    She ate. A bit of schnitzel. And some beer.

    Sure, everyone has ‘fat days’, but for some reason I can’t help feeling really uneasy about someone whose idea of ‘fat’ and ‘health’ are obviously extreme, being put in charge of a bunch of people whose body image and relationship to food is so vulnerable.

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      OriginalM

      Speaking as someone who’s grown up eating very little “junk food” (i.e., stuff with high sugar, high salt, deep-fried, etc.)… it seems really hard for people who eat that way more regularly to understand that if you have it only rarely, it can make you feel *really* ill & make your body feel a way it doesn’t usually. It’s uncomfortable to feel mildly (or majorly) nauseated, bloated, super thirsty. etc.. And yes, that can happen from eating only a fairly small amount.

      I didn’t see it, but perhaps the comments about working it off were made more as an objective view of exactly what she had just ingested, since speaking in kJ & Cal often doesn’t reach people so well.

      I’m not saying this is the case one way or the other; but I remember some of my friends were really hard on her when they saw it. I think it can be hard to understand from the other side..I’m not sure any of us are in a position to judge that her views are “extreme”. Just my $0.02..

      As for the AFL DVD… I don’t know a thing about footy, but I love Brad Scott’s quote re. his sisters & women living in a world where they don’t always feel safe. I hope this is the start of some positive role models emerging publicly to help combat domestic violence (against women AND men).

      A little off topic, but I read this blog post that’s going viral this morning, which some might be interested in:
      http://viewsfromthecouch.com/2012/02/12/you-didnt-thank-me-for-punching-you-in-the-fac/

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        mels

        I did see that episode and at the time I thought it was an extreme reaction but I could also imagine how hard it would be to eat something that might make you feel unwell and to go against everything you believe in. The main thing I remember about it was the sadness that she felt for treating her body in a way that she wouldn’t normally but also sadness for the cycle that those people were in- eating a lot of that food each day. It was like she was disrespecting herself, too. It was a while ago now but I thought it was more about how long it would take her to get back to feeling normal again/ not feel sick rather than to not put on any weight. I do think when you don’t eat that food that you can have a reaction that is like a food allergy.

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        mels

        Thanks for the link OriginalM. I liked this, ” I can’t teach my daughter to respect herself if I am teaching her that no one else has to respect her”.

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      Mug

      I didn’t see the episode where she had to eat schnitzel and beer, but I do know that since I started eating healthy about a year ago, my stomach can’t tolerate bad foods anymore. I drank a regular coke a while ago and ended up on the toilet for half an hour, and if I eat something deep fried, or drink heavy beer or red wine I get quite sick feeling too. I’m sure if I started eating junk again my body would quickly adapt to it and I’d no longer get sick, but if the trainer has been eating healthy her whole life she would probably really feel the difference of eating schnitzel (probably fried) and beer to eating healthily.
      I do however agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence – which is why I won’t watch the show :O)

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      Anonymous

      omg I remember that.
      I’m sure it was uncomfortable and upsetting for her to eat something she normally doesn’t, but that reaction was pretty extreme. I don’t think you can have a healthy relationship with food and your body and react like that, she seems like she has some control issues regarding her food/exercise.

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    Anonymous

    Another scandal. Al Gore earns nearly a billion dollars for creating climate alarmist movies that even climate scientists agree is error ridden. From a guy who likes to fly around the world in private jets and who owns four houses

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      An Idle Dad

      Sorry, British courts found the documentary was mostly accurate.

      I know, I know, conspiracy, right?

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    An Idle Dad

    Obviously when Alan Jones got all upset at that ABC reporter who asked him if he was being paid to talk at the Convoy of no Confidence rally, his answer should have been “No, no, not me… ummm… but that guy over there is”

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    Shannon

    I think I’m the only person on the planet who doesn’t like Adele…to me, she kind of sounds like a cat dying sometimes. She frequently gives me that “nails on a chalkboard” feeling. I have tried so hard to like her, but I just can’t.

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      Kris2040

      I like her, but I can take or leave her music. She is hilarious!

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      lbx

      I don’t agree with you – love her music – but that ‘she kind of sounds like a cat dying sometimes’ – priceless. Love it! Thanks for my lunch time laugh!!

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    girly

    If Adele leaves everyone will forget about her and it will be bye bye career. Sucks that she has that kind of pressure on her, since she wants a relationship.

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    ClimateCarl

    Busted. Totally busted.

    Where are the charges of ‘corrupt scientists’ in the pockets of industry now? That side seemed so quick to level accusations against actual CLIMATE scientists that they were somehow on the payroll of the big, scary ‘climate lobby’?

    Silence.

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    The wounded bull

    So? Tim Flannery gets paid our money to sprout his doomsday nonsense, which is shown to be just that (nonsense) time and time again.

    Hows that whole ‘running out of water’ thing working out for you Tim.

    The sky’s falling, the sky’s falling.

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      An Idle Dad

      You’re spreading misinformation. Tim Flannery doesn’t get paid to sprout anything.

      He does earn income from his books and his job at Macquaire University but he isn’t secretly paid by the Greens or some other cashed up organisation to undermine science.

      But just so I’m clear, you’ve got one ‘gotcha’ line where Flannery fell into a trap set by a very clever radio interviewer, and that discredits all science on climate change. Good for you.

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        The wounded bull

        Just one gotcha line, get real, he has form a mile long predicting rubbish.

        And if you think he has no vested interest as Australia’s Climate Commissioner (a position that only exists and is funded because bad things are a happening dont you know), the you are very naive. He loves getting his head on the telly, so the worse the prediction, the greater the exposure huh.

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        Anon

        I heard from some academics who tried to get him to speak at a conference that he charge 10K for speaking engagements. Most academics don’t charge speaking fees, though they might have flights and accommodation paid for.

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          An Idle Dad

          Fair point – when invited to speak at a conference, he requests to be paid and generates income that way.

          That’s different from offering to speak somewhere ‘for free’ while being paid in secret by an organisation with a – now public – mandate to undermine climate science (not, you know, prove their case with actual science).

          You know when they aren’t interested in the science when they start targeting the kids, too. Or joining forces with creationists, as they have started to do in the US.

          Also, back to TF, it is certainly different from ‘being paid our money’ as the WB claims. I assume WB was referring to TF being Australian of the Year and being paid government money, except Australian of the Year doesn’t come with any money. Opps.

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            The wounded bull

            Lol, he gets $180k a year as chair of the climate commission.

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              An Idle Dad

              I don’t know what happened to my previous comment, but I’ll sum it up:
              You got me! I had never even heard of the Climate Commission. Oops.

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          anon

          I work at a University and in my experience here most academics do get paid for speaking engagements. Doing the contracts for them is a major part of my job.

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    An Idle Dad

    Clearest evidence yet that climate denialists are being paid, indirectly from industries who benefit from climate change denialism.

    This is what climate change scientists have had to fight for the last several decades.

    If there was an obvious and reasonable reason for Professor Bob Carter to be in the regular pay of the Heartland Institute, he’d have said was it was straight away.

    No doubt he’ll come up with such an excuse in the next twenty-four hours.

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      vivacious

      The whole area is just so dirty. Anyone who doesn’t believe that a lot of people have a lot to gain out of discrediting climate change science just aren’t thinking.

      Add Astroturfing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing) to paying for opinion and you have a whole very murky world.

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    An Idle Dad

    Shouldn’t the title be ‘spread climate doubt’?

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      Rick Morton

      Yeah, I just realised that and changed!

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        An Idle Dad

        Also, the Heartland only claims one item is a forgery, it claims the others may be altered.

        Their ‘stolen’ defense is laughable, considering how much they were behind the original ‘Climategate’ scandal where someone stolen tens of thousands of emails between scientists, you know, where they found a single line about a ‘trick’ then yelled ‘ah-ha!’

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    An Idle Dad

    Will Anderson just tweeted:
    Adele hearthbreak = 6 Grammys
    Adele happy = talk of retirement
    Clearly if you are a fan you should try and shag her new boyfriend…

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    Susan As Well

    Is it possible to get a preview of the AFL video somewhere?

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    No name for this one

    It’s strange that they have to bring out a DVD for the whole of AFL.. I know for a fact that a certain professional club in QLD has their own “Treat Women With Respect” chat every preseason.

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      Natasha

      Women need to treat themselves with respect too. Goes hand in hand. Maybe women need to learn about it too.

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        bee

        Totally agree :)
        I was just talking about the stuff relevent to this chat but they also cover general manners, media training and how to manage their finances.

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    MJ

    It scares me that there is a need for a video like that. It astounds me that an adult man can actually go through life not realizing that women have to be afraid for their safety sometimes…
    But I think it’s a good thing they’re trying to address these issues.

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      Craig

      It sounds to me that this video is targeted at kids coming into the system, teenagers basically, not 30 year old veterans. So their schools and family are dropping the ball on this and the AFL have to pick it up. No doubt they are forced to for the sake of the image of the game so it is not entirely selfless.

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      Footy Widow

      the AFL have run programmes like this for years (from the early 90′s at least) on a range of topics: consent, racial vilification, etc… It’s not new. They do try to help the young players coming into the system behave in appropriate ways. Yes, it’s a shame they have to do it at all, but better late than never!

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      AJ

      MJ

      It’s comments like that that make us make these videos, when the vast majority of footy players behave, because they are men, they will be judged on what one in a hundred of their peers do. So to appease the screaming prejudice of sites like this who are oh so quick to jump on anything a male sportsperson may do (except the thousands of hours of charity work – No women are victim men are bad stories there).

      The majority of these young AFL/NRL kids are good and will bo good citizens and do more for the community than you or I ever will, but again to reiterate, what one man does, the other 99 are tarred with.

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        MJ

        Comments like mine are not responsible for the need for those training videos. The behavior of their employees in public are the reason they need those training videos. The culture of their organization are the reason they need those training videos.

        Speak for yourself regarding how much you do for the community. I do plenty and I’m not forced as a condition of my employment to do it.

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      Anonymous

      When I got my first job at a major supermarket, I had to sit through a few hours of video’s and talks about sexual harrassment and bullying. All of it was commonsense, and pretty patronising really.

      It’s just something big companies have to do, because if a few of their players/employee’s behave badly, it will be tied to them, even if the numbers of people behaving badly aren’t out of line with the rest of the community.

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        MJ

        Most companies have the standard sexual harassment/cultural awareness etc etc orientation you have to go through. As far as I’m aware there is no need for targeted education that violence against women is not acceptable when you work in a supermarket.

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    Lana

    Even if Adele is being coerced to stay by her record company, I am selfishly quite happy :-)

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      Cathy Crawley

      Me too. Remember Macy Gray and her big year at the Grammys? Anyone seen her lately? Out of sight. Out of mind.

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    Christy

    Hmm, so who fixes the planes?
    Surely its cheaper to fix them in Australia where the planes actually are, than fly them to Singapore (or where ever) and fix them there. Maybe if they actually employed people rather than put them on very expensive short term contracts that would help their bottom line too.

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      Lil

      Apparently they are not moving jobs off shore or to contractors it’s just that new planes need less maintenance and therefore staff have become redundant. Qantas is one of only two profitable airlines in the world and should maintain a return to shareholders or it won’t survive.

      Anyone remember Ansett?

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        Christy

        My goodness yes, Ansett completely changed the course of my life!

        Interesting about the newer planes requiring less maintenance, will have to do some research about that. Its still a lot less people to fix planes that carry more people.

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        Lulu

        “new planes need less maintenance ”

        But new planes don’t *stay* new – unless they’re replaced very regularly, which would be more expensinve than maintanenance, surely?

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    Chellebelle

    I get the reference, but am I the only one who thinks Tackling the Tackle is a weird name for the AFL movie? Good on them for doing it though.

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      Kjp

      Hehehe I agree good on them but the name congers up very different images.

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      Christy

      Such a shame that they “need” to produce a film saying violence against women / other people is bad. Surely in this day and age, its pretty obvious. But with the amount of alcohol fuelled violence these days, maybe they need to “tackle the booze” in their video instead.

      The new mantra for everyone should be, don’t drink to get drunk, drink because it tastes nice and have two!!!!

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        Rick Morton

        That was my first reaction: why is this even necessary! But not to take anything away from them, good on them for doing something I suppose.

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          no name for this one.

          Yea it is a little strange that they have to produce it. I mentioned in a comment just before that a professional QLD AFL club have chats with the boys every pre-season. It covers everything from good manners and how to treat people (& women) with respect and also media stuff. Its a brilliant thing that they do however I dont think it needs to be publicised… The Tackling the Tackle just sounds like they want to SHOW they are doing the right thing to get people off their back..

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          Fooy Widow

          As I mentioned up there the AFL have done similar training for years. There is usually a different topic every preseason.

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    Roz

    Heh… the first quote was Adele talking. The second quote was the record company talking.