Nobody seems to be happy about the Gillard Government’s weekend announcement of a new asylum seeker policy to send refugees to Malaysia. Tony Abbott has called it a ‘lousy and hopeless deal’ for Australia. Amnesty International and refugee advocacy groups are horrified by the policy and shocked by the backflip that will see asylum seekers arriving by boat flown to a country with an appalling record for the treatment of refugees. A country that – like Nauru – is not a signatory to the UN refugee convention.
Here’s the long and the short of it, from ABC Online:
“Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced a deal with Malaysia to take 800 asylum seekers from Australia.
In exchange, she says Australia will accept 4,000 refugees from Malaysia.
Ms Gillard says from now on, asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat can be sent directly to Malaysia, where they will be at the back of the queue.”
So, now we’ve got what most are calling a ‘panicked’ response to dealing with asylum seekers in this country. A kind of Nauru mach two situation, except this time Australia will be taking refugees in return. As the Opposition noted in their disdain: ‘we didn’t take any refugees from Nauru. They didn’t have any. That was the point’.
Let’s get to the issues.
What’s so special about offshore processing?
The theory is simple: asylum seekers make their way to Australia because they want to settle here. It’s a ridiculously dangerous journey that has caused loss of life and injury. If the Government processes seekers offshore without guarantee of acceptance, then hopefully (so the theory goes) they won’t bother making the difficult journey in the first place. If there is a possibility that refugees might be sent to ‘the back of the queue’ in Malaysia once they get here, there’s a chance they might not come at all.
How is this similar to Nauru?
PM John Howard started his ‘Pacific Solution’ to asylum seekers when there was a spike in arrivals in 2001. His theory was the same as Gillard’s is today, that offshore processing will stem the tide of arrivals. Nauru, a Pacific Island nation, was one location where asylum seekers were sent to be processed. If they were accepted as genuine refugees – and the majority of them were – they would be allowed to settle in Australia. Gillard’s plan swaps Nauru for Malaysia and includes a policy of taking ‘genuine’ refugees from Malaysia in a policy costed at $292 million, but which the Opposition says could blow out to $800 million. The plan on Nauru essentially worked with then Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone announcing the last of the refugees held there would be moved onshore in 2005, but that it would reopen again if people smuggling resumed. While the numbers slowed, the plan was roundly criticised for human rights violations by the United Nations as some refugees spent more than 4 years waiting to be processed. The centres were then, as they are now, described as ‘mental health factories’.
So Gillard just copied the idea?
Essentially. And here’s the real backflip. During the election campaign it was continually put to the PM that she should simply adopt the Nauru proposal from the Opposition. Nauru, the nation told Australia, was ‘willing and able’ to take refugees again. But Ms Gillard said she simply would not send refugees to a country for processing if it had not signed the United Nations Refugee Convention. Fair enough, but guess what? Nor has Malaysia.
If the policy ‘stops the boats’ and we’re still taking genuine refugees, what’s to complain about?
Malaysia has a terrible record for human rights violations, especially when it comes to the treatment of refugees. As noted above, it has not ratified the UN refugee convention. According to Amnesty International, which conducted a detailed audit of the treatment of refugees in Malaysia last year, detainees are subjected to ‘detention in appalling conditions, caning, extortion, human trafficking and deportation back to the persecution that they fled’.
Is that it?
Ms Gillard says she hopes this is step one in developing a ‘regional processing solution’ and is in talks with Papua New Guinea to set up an assessment centre there. The Government also says it may re-open the facility on Manus Island, which John Howard’s Government operated. This is all very similar to Howard’s Pacific Solution in design but the Opposition is still not happy because the Government is still taking those 4000 refugees from Malaysia.
Remember when the Opposition blamed the Christmas Island tragedy on the Gillard Government’s policies, because they hadn’t ‘stopped the boats’? At the time Mr Abbott said a return to the Howard Government’s policies was the only way to combat people smuggling. Gillard’s team rejected this assertion outright.
Now, it would appear, there’s only a very slim difference between the two camps.
Let’s see if, and how, the rhetoric changes.
As at 15 April 2011, there were 6872 people in immigration detention, including 5047 in immigration detention on the mainland and 1825 in immigration detention on Christmas Island.
59 of these have had a protection visa refused.
221 of these arrived in Australia lawfully, but overstayed their Visa and were taken into detention.
6216 were undergoing a Refugee Status Assessment.
The majority have been in detention for less than one year.
What do you think about this new policy?








Comments
176 Comments so far
This policy shoudn’t be aloud. These are peaple not animals or food!!!
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And now, from the sublime to the ridiculous, we have Bob Brown countering Labor’s plan to bring in skilled migrants. Seems Uncle Bob reckons skilled migrants, those chosen to migrate here, are ‘queue jumpers’ and those that burn detention centres, make homemade bombs and sew their lips together are the preferred immigrants for Australia. He says they can be ‘skilled up’. Unfortunately, even on this blog, the stats have revealed that this is an unlikely proposition. Strangely these same people somehow managed to scoop up $10,000 to $20,000 dollars to get here.
Equally obtuse, is the way that the Greens, along with Labor, have finally admitted that there is a queue to apply for entry into Australia. They have finally recognised the thousands, if not more, of Burmese refugees waiting for a chance to leave Malaysia, too poor to pay a boat captain. Seems the Left prefer to focus on those who have enough money to traverse myriad countries, paying their way to Australia, than the really needy.
The Malaysia deal is a good deal in one way, we get to take proven refugees, in exchange for those who have been rejected in the asylum seeking process. While the Greens would prefer we took everybody, we get to take five times more people, but are assured, if you believe in Santa Claus, these people are genuine refugees, not queue jumpers. It sort of makes sense, in a convoluted sort of way.
But it’s a one-off deal. It doesn’t set in place a program for the future. So I guess it’s back to square one, pretend we’ve closed the borders, let the most determined through, deny the really needy, such as the Burmese, muck around with the refugee policy, and at the end of the day achieve less than the Howard government did.
Fait accompli
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After all of the talk about 90+% Refugees and Asylum Seekers being on welfare after 5 years I decided to go and try to find some facts.
May I suggest that anyone who is interested take a look at this research paper by the department of Immigration and Citizenship. (Gig and Rick may both be interested in this)
The link is http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/
and the specific research publication is the first one at the top of the page titled “Settlement Outcomes of New Arrivals”.
page 19: ” Humanitarian migrant households are far more likely to be in receipt of Centrelink payments than other streams. Around 85% of Humanitarian entrants’ households are in receipt of Centrelink payments, while around 28% of Skilled migrants’ households make use of Centrelink payments.
However, reading on to clarify the types of payments it is noted that “It must be understood that Centrelink payments are not only unemployment benefits but also include Youth Allowance, Austudy and child care rebates. ”
That puts things into a bit of perspective doesn’t it? Most families I know receive some kind of Centerlink payment, especially for Child Care Rebate – but would not be branded as “Welfare dependent”
Reading further into the report, page 27 details employment category by migration scheme. Put simply, this empirical research indicates that for Humanitarian Entrants to Australia
31% are employed (either self employed or by an employer) and including those who are BOTH studying and working
11.7% are unemployed or not looking for work
57.2% are either retired, caring duties, studying full time, voluntary work or setting up a business but no income yet.
Looking into it further it would seem that 47% of Centerlink payments are education related. How encouraging that so many people who have come here as Humanitarian entrants are trying to better themselves!
So, I offer this information as an addition to the debate. So many “facts and figures” get tossed around that it can be difficult to sort out what is accurate and what is media beat up.
And, before anyone jumps down my throat – I don’t have a solution, I don’t know how many refugees we should take each year. I just thought it would be useful to add some empirical research to the mix rather than the figures thrown around by shock jocks and the shadow minister for Immigration Scott Morrison.
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I’m glad you did this; I’ve been meaning to but have been sidetracked. I knew context would matter, as it always does, and this confirms my suspicions! Thanks dramaqueen: it truly is encouraging to see refugees making a good go of things!
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Glad to make a contribution guys
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Thanks for posting that, dramaqueen, and also for indicating the points of reference. It’s a very interesting read. You’re so right about the bandying about of figures. Just a quick look shows how the shock jocks and media grabbed hold of the ’85% of refugees still on welfare…’
Indeed, education is part of the welfare system too. However, without meaning to take the gloss off, for humanitarian refugees, this education is more likely to be attendance at an English class, rather than a tertiary course. Still, all in all, it’s a very positive appraisal of the situation.
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Just saw a story on the ABC regarding the conditions in Malaysia and I am horrified! Canings? Children in jail? Surely the Howard Naru option was a million times better than that?
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That’s kinda what I thought too, funny that…
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Happymum commented earlier
There is a queue, and it is bloody long and never-ending
So I’d like to ask the bleeding hearts to place a figure on the number of refugees we should take each year. Keep in mind we already have an immigration program. Under the Howard government we took more immigrants, and less refugees; under the Rudd/Gillard regime we have lowered the number of organised immigrants and increased vastly the number of refugees. Maybe that’s how the Left would prefer it. Yet the bottom line is, under the Howard government, with their so-called inhumane, cruel policies, we actually took more people in total than we have under Labor’s policy.
The Howard policy, while appearing to be harsh, at least addressed the issue of international refugees. Gillard Labor are faltering between previous policies that worked, and pressure from the loony Greens.
So, the question remains, how many people, per annum, can Australia accommodate? If you’re serious about this debate, put a figure out there. If you’re a bleeding heart with no grip on reality, go for the Greens’ open door policy.
An open door policy starts at one million in the first year. According to UNHCR there are forty two million displaced people on the planet. Our current population is twenty two million. It is not racist, bigoted, inhumane or any other ill-informed epithet for us to both question and consider the implications of an open-door policy. In fact, it is naive if we don’t. Fortunately both the former Howard government and the current Labor government recognised this.
Rather than lambasting those who disagree with you, perhaps consider the reality of your ideals rather than the emotion that is driving them.
Once again, how many? Put a number on it, how many people, refugees, can Australia accommodate in one year?
I’m sure that we’ll probably all agree on, or around, a number. And maybe we can stop calling each other ‘racist’ or ‘bleeding hearts’.
After all, we all have to live in this god-forsaken place, we might as well make the most of it
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I don’t know how many we should take. I suggest that the amount other countries take and the size/population of those countries should be taken into consideration though. We have so much space, and the majority of refugees are willing and able to work once they get settled, unlike an awful lot of Australian citizens. I don’t know how to fix this, I just know that this Malaysia plan is wrong.
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Yes, Loz, we have plenty of space, but most of it is unusable or unliveable. I’ve written about this before here, I don’t have the figures in front of me, but compared to a country like the USA, we have far less arable land, almost no infrastructure beyond our major cities, and major regionals. However, with the question, ‘how many’, you are correct about space, but we need a huge impetus to develop our country from a coastal dwelling population to a more regional spread.
Interestingly, the document linked to by dramaqueen, a few comments above, has this statistic re humanitarian refugees:
Regional settlement appears to contribute positively to the settlement process, including socially, economically and in terms of personal well-being
The full explanation is on p23.
It emphasises the need for Australia to spread out a bit, no matter how hard that is. And then a million immigrants a year would be a necessity, not an imposition.
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I think it’s disgusting the way we treat asylum seekers. Australia is a signatory to the UN refugee convention and the UN convention on the rights of children. Both of which we contravene by locking up children and exposing them to such things as the mental breakdowns of other detainees. They are not given access to schooling while detained either. Mandatory detention is against the UN convention on refugees, and we are one of the only countries that does it. All to stop 6000 refugees each year, when countries like Jordan take up to 500,000 some years. It’s a total joke. The government bangs on about how we have to get back to a surplus, then wants to spend obscene amounts of money carting people around the pacific. And don’t even get me started on Malaysia’s human rights record when it comes to refugees…. We are supposed to be the lucky country, but the way we treat others is appalling. Under the UN refugee convention, we HAVE to take all sylum seekers and decide if they are genuine, in a reasonable amount of time, without punishment or poor conditions. I know I’m rambling, but this whole farce has me so upse, and ashamed of our government…
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I meant to say upset there, but obviously am so pissed off I can’t type either
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IT SUCKS!!!
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Succinct, and dare I say it, correct!
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Sounds like a really crappy deal to me.
Send 800 asylum seekers to Malaysia. They live in third-world conditions until they get the funds together to hop on another boat back to Australia.
And then we get 4000 Malaysian refugees to process here too.
How is this reducing numbers in detention? This is only going to increase it. How is this going to help?
Also if there is “no queue” when it comes down to refugees being processed, why is Labor banging on about these 600 being “sent to the back of the queue”.
There is a queue, and it is bloody long and never-ending.
Also, if this is the case, any refugee coming from Indonesia having crossed many refugee accepting countries to get to our wonderful land must be sent “to the back of the queue”.
Why don’t the government set up a detention centre in Kabul where the refugees (non-economic) can have a chance at a better life here? We could handpick from the refugee camps who we want to bring in. These poor people are desperate, and I hate to think that we are taking people who are not so deserving and could quite easily survive in their own country until they are granted a work visa.
It is a terrible situation and I think we should be processing them all offshore closer to the countries from which they are fleeing. This will stop the flow of those dangerous and leaky boats.
Glad I didn’t vote Labor, now I can say “I told you so”.
It is a complete humanitarian disaster.
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“How is this reducing numbers in detention? This is only going to increase it. ”
As far as I can tell (Rick, correct me if I’m wrong), the 4000 number refers to people who have been assessed & accepted to be refugees, so they wouldn’t go into detention.
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That’s how I understand it, Lulu.
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Happymum, excellent, carefully considered comment. You won’t get much support here, but I reckon you already know that. I’ll quote one line
There is a queue, and it is bloody long and never-ending
and then ask the bleeding hearts to place a figure on the number of refugees we should take each year.
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Yes, this must be a shock to even the most ardent leftie. A Labor government doing to refugees what it criticised (loudly and vehemently) the Howard government for doing. And it is doing it for a mere $300 million. A bargain in any man’s language.
Waiting to read and hear the spin the will come, making this a selfless, kindly gesture on behalf of the PM who has undoubtedly lost her way completely.
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You obviously haven’t read my comments Bradley
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I did, and I can tell that you are shocked !
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Pissed off would be more accurate…
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Yep, with you there Rick.
I voted Labor and this was not what I had in mind.
I’ll be voting further left from now on…. is this the only
way to ensure Australia meets its obligations in terms
of human rights?
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Is this an admission that you feel that you were conned by the ALP ?
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Not a shock at all, Brad. It’s why in the lefty seats there were swings against Labor and to the Greens!
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…..and the swings to Green achieved…..victory to Labor candidates. If I chose to vote against a Liberal candidate, my primary vote would certainly not be going to the coalition partner, a National candidate.
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My husband comes from a third world country. We met while I was living there. When we eventually wanted to come back to Australia, it cost us several thousand dollars, we had to provide endless proof of our relationship (we were married and I was pregnant with our first child) and we waited 9 months for his visa to be approved, with my husband finally arriving in Australia 3 days before the birth of our child after constant begging from myself and a letter from my doctor for our visa to be processed. It was a stressful time but we understood and respected the process we had to go through for my husband to be allowed to legally live and work here.
We have friends who have been through similar situations, sometimes forcing families to be apart from their children for months at a time but they too respect the system and wait their turn.
My husband now works in a factory where many other migrants and some refugees work and he was surprised to find a lot of them constantly complain about having to work so hard and the lack of money they get from the government. The salary at the factory is $25 an hour, therefore 4 hours work equates to what my husband would earn in a whole month in his home country in a qualified hospitality position. He is so grateful to have found a job that helps to support his family, and was surprised that some others who have come from countries in even worse circumstances do not see themselves as so fortunate.
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I’ve done volunteer work with refugees and migrants Sarah – they live in housing commission flats and many work long hours at lowly paid, dead end jobs – and I never heard them complain and felt sometimes guilty at accepting hospitality and gifts they gave I and other volunteer tutors.. knowing they had so little but understanding they wanted to express their gratitude to us for helping their children. I’ve rarely met more hard-working and determined people in my life – who as I said I never heard complain despite being in some pretty difficult circumstances.
I’m sure that your husband has met a couple that may not be dealing with their situation with as much graciousness – but I assure you that what you are saying does make for an accurate generalization.
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I work with teens who arrived 2-5 years ago. Generally they and there families are keen to do well and as well as being full time in school many have part time jobs. The small number that have behaviour problems often have witnessed the most terrible trauma, not helped by years in camps and detention.
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I never said that all refugees have this attitude, I’m sure the majority are doing their best in very difficult situations, I just commented on the fact that some people my husband works with, of whom some are refugees and others are migrants from other countries, do admit that they thought their lives in Australia would be much easier than they have turned out to be. Jobs in the area we live are not easy to find, and people working at this factory are earning a decent wage yet some (not all) feel that they are getting a hard deal. My husband, having also come from a poor country, just comments on how surprised he is that some people aren’t more grateful for the opportunities there are here.
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Hi,
I agree with you, my husband also came from OS and it cost us a lot of money and time to get him here. Since arriving he has worked non-stop since then and not taken a cent of welfare. I know we need to help, but we are working long hard hours to keep a roof over our head and they are coming in and being supported by the Government.
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Just to be clear on the facts though, once they are accepted as refugees into the community they are only entitled to the same entitlements as you or I. Having said that, I’ve known the refugees I have encountered to be hard working and willing to have a crack at just about anything. There will always be the odd few who don’t participate, but to characterise them as a drain on resources I think is unfair.
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Rick, given figures released in the last few days that is simply not true. While I applaud your stance on this issue, I feel it is also important to not whitewash reality to suit your wishful thinking.
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There are no special benefits for accepted refugees. Asylum Seekers, as I wrote in the comments, receive a payment that is worth about 80% of a Centrelink payment while they are processed. I don’t think that is at all unreasonable.
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You’ve completely missed my point. In the past decade, refugees, once accepted into the community, have at the latest figures, a 90+% rate of being on welfare after five years. Yes, they may all be well meaning, but why are these figures so high? Sounds like your utopia is more a wish than a reality. Also, refugees accepted into the community have their rent paid automatically, on top of their Centrelink benefit, as of course they should, to help them get started.
But five years later and 90+% are still on welfare? This isn’t working.
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You are both right and wrong, I work in a bank and have done for years so know what assistance people are entitled to as it comes in fortnight after fortnight like groundhog day. The youth do receive the exact same as any other youth. Families however do receive more, and yes if I were on benefits and had 2 kids I would get x amount, well a refugee with 2 kids would get x amount plus significantly more ($200) in their family assisstance. Im neither saying its right or wrong, there just the facts, I see them all the time. I honestly can’t comment on the old age pension as I have never served an old age refugee so don’t know if it compares but going on the youth allowance I would say it would be the same.
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Gig:
“In the past decade, refugees, once accepted into the community, have at the latest figures, a 90+% rate of being on welfare after five years. ”
do you have a source for this?
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The Gillard govt is making a habit of adopting coalition policies of late. I don’t agree with this policy and don’t see how the 800 for 4000 swap will work. I hear the treasurer saying how we have to tighten our belts and how funding for thee States for education has been reduced, the govt dept I work for has to cut 1000 jobs to save $300 million. This policy will cost $300million. Are they sacrificing Australian jobs to pay for this policy? I think so and I am scared how this will affect my family.
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god i so sick of reading ignorant, racist and ill-informed b*llshit about refugees.
so i am going to stop reading some of the comments below.
i think julia gillard is making a very big mistake. i did not vote for her to reinstate a liberal policy. i voted for her as i hoped that she would take the humanitarian approach. between this issue and same-sex marriage i am voting greens next election. i really mean that too.
thanks rick, although i wish it weren’t all so depressing.
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Since Labor and the Greens are in a partnership, then you will be voting Labor anyway
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i am aware of that. i am referring to the fact that labor policies are becoming more right wing, which is what i am totally against
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But you will still vote Green, which means that you will be still be voting Labor and returning a Labor candidate should you happen to live in an electorate held by a Labor candidate. No other “genuine” alternatives to consider ?
Of course, I am well aware that like the rest of us you don’t currently know who your candidates for the next federal election will be. Maybe “it’s time” to get into Google and learn the policies of a few others who will be chasing your vote. You may just come across a suitable leftist alternatives to the Watermelon Coalition that is letting down those who voted for it and those who didn’t.
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Bradley – not sure I’m really following your line of
argument. I’ll vote further left next time, do you think
that if I knew more about Liberal policies that I’d vote
for them???
So if I vote Green, and even if it helps Labor, I’d still
do that before I’d go near Abbott.
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My line of argument is quite simple, Luc. If I was a Labor voter, I wouldn’t vote for Labor’s coalition partner..the Greens…because that vote would ultimately assist Labor.
If I chose not to vote Liberal, I wouldn’t vote for the Lib’s coalition partner, the Nats for the same reason.
Who you ultimately vote for is your decision. What I’m saying is, there are many ways to register a protest vote and voting for the coalition partner of who you intend sending a message to, is not the way.
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thanks luc. that is exactly my point.
i could never bring myself to vote for a party that endorsed tony abbott.
i am in a very safe lib seat anyway so not much of what i do counts
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Last state election Greens didn’t give their preferences to Labor! Lets hope they won’t do it anymore for a Federal election & just stand on their own. I’d vote for Greens but not if the vote goes to Labor!
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I think maybe my dad has the keys to the interwebs again, Rainbow! Yikes!
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change the password!
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I don’t live with him. Could be worse, his *cough* Migrant *cough* wife is worse than he is.
He suggested leaving talkback radio on to calm Katharine down when I put her to bed. Not a chance!! LOL
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I don’t know how you could expect more- one of her first speeches as Prime Minister was a harder line on immigrants. She also made her views clear on gay marriage. All to chase the bogan vote.
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Why don’t they focus on explaining to refugee seekers that Australia or any other country is not a charity? Most refugees don’t understand that acceptance into Australia as a refugee is conditional, and doesn’t mean that they can come here and live off the government. The government is on the right track by trying to deflect refugees but accepting more refugees isnt’ the answer.
This reminds me of the day I was in the Medicare office and a young Pakistani man walked in and shouted ‘I was told I come to Australia and they give me money. I need money now.’
Pretty much sums it all up really. There are very few genuine refugees.
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deep breaths rainbow.
do you know what? i cannot tell you the number of times and i have been somewhere and white australian males have behaved rudely and aggressively.
pretty much sums it up really.
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I think the point she was making is the mindset and of the man, NOT the aggression, you can get that at any pub on a Saturday night…
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i was referring to the mindset as well. men that believe because they are wealthy or privileged deserve more and want it NOW
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i am also making a mass generalisation about the behaviour of white australian men based on the behaviour of a few…
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Deep breath to me… Rainbow Now you are completely
dazed and confused. What the?
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I though you were going to stop reading the comments Rainbow…
Cant help yourself
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???????????????????? rainbow is confused, today. Very confused.
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Some people are easily confused.
I understand rainbow’s comment to be referring to Aberrant Venus’s generalisation about refugees i.e. “poor behaviour by one refugee” implies “poor behaviour by all refugees”. If that is true, then what does it mean when there is poor behaviour by one locally-born Anglo-Australian (or several)?
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I agree JustMe , By Rainbow comparing the man to an agressive drunk on a saturday night means she is missing the point.
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Funny that you should say that, rainbow. Because I can’t even begin to estimate the number of times that I have encountered rude, agressive, white Australian females during the course of my day to day business.
Your comment is the most general generalisation that I’ve ever read. Rudeness and agressive arrogance has no particular racial background or gender.
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Two “g’s” in the word aggressive. System still won’t allow me to edit.
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my point is exactly that. i just made a generalisation based on the behavior of a few.
the OP made his opinion based on one man!!
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I agree, there is this expectation that they will receive free housing and money. This coming to this country and expecting everything on a silver platter infuriates me. We have all had to work for what we have. THEY DO TO… You need to earn money and then you can get the house. Also a little respect for the people that live here wouldnt go astray either.
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Natasha your attitude totally disregards the kind of trauma that many refugees go through before they come to Australia. We’re not talking about setting them up in a life of luxury and supporting them for the rest of their lives. It’s about providing people with enough support that they can before fully functioning members of society. If you bring someone to a new country where they have no contacts, no support, no money and no education, what exactly do you expect them to do in order to get on their feet? In any case, much of the support that refugees receive when they arrive in Australia is provided by NFPs.
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Many of these people have total disrespect for our country,. One only has to look at what they did a few weeks ago when they caused millions of dollars indamages to property. Frustrated they may be with having to wait, but the violence they displayed was nothing short of disgraceful. NO
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I didn’t find the behavior becoming either. But you have to wonder what
Drove them to the point.
They are oviously desperate and over the unknown reality that is there future.
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What drove them was pure frustration, theie behaviour deplorable Our taxes will be paying to fix the mess they created instead of where it should go to our schools & the health system. Shattering really….
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Where do you people get these ideas from? How many people do you really know who bludge off the system?
having said that for people who have come from a back ground of hardship they do tend to have an attitude of get what you can while you can. Kind of understandable when you have a history loss and instability.
No different to the dole bludging culture in parts of Australia. It is a human condition. We want what we are told we are entitled too.
How many middle class families turn back the child care rebate as they feel they don’t need it? Not many I am thinking. and the irony is I get back more in childcare then a single person gets in dole payments.
talk about double standards.
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wrong, wrong, wrong…
Couldn’t be bothered to explain.
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A government report has found that economics is motivating the current flood of refugees and not persecutuion
Explained at this link:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/better-life-main-reason-for-refugees-journey-20110503-1e6ui.html
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Ah. Now this is where it gets very difficult. Should leaving one’s country in search of a better life for your family earn you the protection and acceptance of another country? I’m not sure, but isn’t that why anyone moves anywhere – in search of something better? In the case of the Afghans, I imagine life must be pretty shit to board a leaky boat to Australia. I mean, my family could arguably have a better life in Norway (excellent state education, health, parental leave etc ), but things are pretty good where we are, so I’m not risking anything by staying. In my opinion, the term ‘economic refugees’ is misleading – it makes us think these people are rich. If I lived somewhere my kids had zero chance of an education, or care when they got sick, or could end up in crossfire, I’d spend every last cent I had to get them the hell out of there. Wouldn’t you? I have no answers – that’s what I look to our country’s leaders for.
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Then you migrate which would entail you having a sponser with the right paper work in place. Medicare wants a down payment etc
My parents migrated her because they wanted a better place for me. My uncle had to sponser us. There was no centre link payments and my dad worked lots of extra shifts.
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I understand where you’re coming from. My father came from Yugoslavia after WW2 and he shares your opinion. Still, I disagree. I found the link very interesting though. To me, the crux was this: ‘While the focus groups in Kabul found respondents largely rejected illegal immigration out of a sense of patriotic duty and the belief they should stay and assist the reconstruction of the country, those in poorer, less-educated areas believed leaving for Australia was a ”survival strategy” worthy of the risk.’ From what I understand, if you’re from a *poorer area* of Kabul you’re pretty damn poor. It’ll take everything you’ve got to get to Australia. You will never save enough for a Medicare down payment. You probably don’t have a birth certificate, let alone a passport. The fact that our government is commissioning these studies is a good thing. Hopefully people will be informed of the risks, but if they come, I think we should treat them with compassion.
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Kate, I wish ‘anti-boat-people’ would make up their minds. Either ‘the illegals’ are rich people who buy a seat on the boats at great expense, *or* they’re the great impoverished who are ‘economic refugees’ – it can’t be both true.
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D’oh, that anonymous was me.
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‘Economic refugees’ does not imply that they are poor. It means thay want to be richer from the position they find themselves.
The GetUp sponsered refugee, Riz Wakil, has rich parents back in Pakistan
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You need a passport to fly to Indonesia,which is what they do.
You need money to pay a people smuggler and other corrupt officials in between.
The main difference is that it takes longer to do it the right way.
There are thousands doing it the right way
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That report refers to an investigation into one country only, namely Afghanistan – nothing about other countries.
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The highest number of ‘refugees’ are from Afghanistan, and that is why most probably the government payed $72,000 for it.
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political correctness is restrictive – not sure where the largest
flows of refugees are coming from, but interestingly, the largest
flow of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS is from – wait for it – New
Zealand. Why are these not mentioned here???
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New Zealanders have to support themselves, they don’t get hand outs
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I’m curious – The processing time of applications for asylum seekers is exceptionally long, (years sometimes) and this is based on the premise that background checks need to be completed and also that the claim for refugee status needs to be legitimate and rigorously confirmed… this is used to justify locking up refugees for lengthy periods even though it has been shown to have adverse effects on their mental health.
So I’m wondering – given that there is quite a specific set of criteria by which you can apply for refugee status and that this does not include being an economic refugee – after these huge times and costs and given most of the claims are found to be legitimate – how they can also mostly be economic refugees?
Are you saying that the government is so utterly incompetent that they lock people up for long periods of time, even though it harmful to them, and spends huge amounts of money confirming that they meet refugee status and then when they don’t – they accept them as refugees and release them into the community anyway (despite knowing they are not really refugees at all?).
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We I get the bigger picture of stopping people catching leaky boats across a dangerous sea and allowing criminals to take advantage of desperate people.
But isn’t there a balance? Can’t we do it quickly and have nicer conditions and employment while I. Detention. Why not have English classes and be able to learn skills needed in the Australian work force while in detention.
why not make it a business they can work at and make money with while in detention. Money they can use to start there new life in Australia? I don’t like the jail concept.
But we need to be realistic too- some controls and checks are needed and a big dose of compassion.
what I hate about these announcements is they appeal to the racist red neck element in Australia. I disrespect Julia for going there. Especially when we have bigger issues in aged care and mental health that affect many times more Australians.
I wish immigration was organised and controlled by a group of smart people who know what they are talking about. That they got on with what ever is best for everyone and it wasn’t a media issue. It is such a small number of people, why can’t we leave it to experts to be dealt with with compassion and realism instead of fodder for racist Australia.
Julia- I am disappointed in you bring back Kevin with a conscious.
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I think it sucks.
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I don’t see at all how this will stop the boats… my guess is that the majority of asylum seekers are in a situation where they don’t have access to a whole lot of information, at least not of the verifiable kind. Sure, the people who organise these boats (and collect the money) might know about the deal with Malaysia, but why on earth would they pass that information on to their clients? And even if their clients did somehow know, would it necessarily stop them? People who are so desperate to leave their home country that they will sell all they have to risk a perilous journey by sea are already putting everything on the line- what’s the added chance that they may get shipped to another country? Maybe I’m being naive, but I honestly don’t see how this policy is supposed to stop the boats… the boats will kep on coming as long as there is despair and inequity and violence in the world. Shafting 800 refugees isn’t going to make a long term difference to the numbers at all.
I voted Labor b/c I felt their policy on asylum seekers was more humane than that of the opposition, but am quickly becoming disenchanted. Sigh. What on earth has happened to basic humanity?
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Have you heard about a government report just released that states these refugees are economic refugees and not fleeing from persecution.
Do you realise that these refugees have families here who inform them of the current situation.
You seem to think that these refugees are ignorant and cant access the internet.
Have you not seen them with mobile phones
Have you not heard of relatives saying that they last spoke to them by mobile phone while they were making the voyage here.
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“Have you heard about a government report just released that states these refugees are economic refugees and not fleeing from persecution.”
Source / links, please.
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Lulu try this:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/a-world-of-long-term-welfare-for-refugees/story-e6freuzr-1226050094427
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This link has nothing to do with the economic situation of people boarding ‘the boats’. It’s all about their employment prospects when they are settled. A different issue all together.
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Try this link katehunter
http://www.smh.com.au/national/better-life-main-reason-for-refugees-journey-20110503-1e6ui.html
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I know some of the boarding crews. They find the male boat people are general well educated and/or come from money (boat trips are between US $10,000-$15,000 per person. Quiet a lot of money when you think about the average annual wage of these areas) and they are VERY up-to-date on whats happening (some also had family/friends that have been through the system so they know what the go is). And its not uncommon for the boat’s crew or the boat people’s family in Australia to call the customs/navy to tell them where they can intercept the boat.
The people on the frontline (that I’ve come across) have all said the removal of the temp protection visa increased the flow of boats.
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My partner is in the Navy and was on Patrol Boats for over 8 years, anti-me is exactly right. The people making these trips are extremely well informed. They know where to go, what to say, and who to say it to.
A lot of the people coming over are well off. Some (definitely not all) are not nice people either. Why do you think some (as I said before, some NOT all) people have $10,000 for a boat fare, but no money for a passport, or ANY form of identification?
When the Navy was turning boats around, or sending them to Nairu, there were a few boats coming through a year, currently we’re getting a few a week…
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I do volunteer work with an asylum seeker advocacy group in Melbourne and the reason I made my comments was exactly because the people I have worked with (possibly a biased sample) didn’t seem to have any idea at all where they were going- just did what they could to get on a boat and out of danger. I wouldn’t say that all asylum seekers who come by boat are in this position, but equally I doubt that all boat people are “VERY up to date on what’s happening”, as anti-me asserts. I also doubt that such people are very wealthy- yes, a fare on a boat costs a lot, but again in my experience of many years the wealthy, educated asylum seekers come by plane and enter initially on a tourist visa, they don’t risk the ocean crossing if they have any way of avoiding it at all. Australia receives MANY more asylum seekers by plane than boat.
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Oh this whole issue gets to me, so much backflipping by Julia Gillard it’s making my head spin!
She’s trying to sweep the whole issue under the carpet, hardly surprising! By annoucing they’re going to take 4,000 genuine refugees in exchange for 800 asylum seekers is just a marketing tool I think to make the whole policy look better.
It doesn’t. And it won’t. Unless the majority of Australians have their rosy-coloured glasses on.
How on earth can the Labor Government send these asylum seekers to an offshore processing centre that hasn’t signed the UN refugee convention?
I don’t pretend I know the solution to this problem but this is hardly it………
Should be an interesting Q&A tonight that’s for sure.
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Hear hear!
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Ah….that Julia Gillard. Flip, flop, flap !
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I have a question (actually one of my friends has a question, she asked me and I dont have a formulated answer yet (BTW I constantly use the other ‘cheat sheet’ MM did on Assulym Seekers – fantastic, so informative =])
‘if these [boat people] want to escape their country, dont they sail on by other countries that could possible accept take them? if their only purpose is to escape the terrible conditions of their homeland, wouldnt it be better if they got off at the next available ‘safe place’ rather than continuing a very unsafe dangerous journey to Australia?’
thoughts? =]
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I’ve often thought about this! I don’t know why and I can’t speak for every asylum seeker out there, but if it were me I’d want to get to a country like Australia because of what it offers. Many of the neighbouring countries haven’t ratified the UN Refugee Convention and, like Malaysia, have an absolutely awful record of treating them. If you’ve upended everything and sold every worldly possession to make a break for freedom and a better life, I hardly think you’d settle for a country that is only marginally better.
In Australia, they can make a proper go of things. I think that’s why they try.
But I don’t know for sure
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Refugees can get large finanical assists. My partner’s work mate (a refugee) got $40,000 to put down as a house deposit (doesn’t need to repay), plus a rental car for 6 months to help him get to work and a couple of other perks all paid for by the government. And I’m pretty sure they also get an “re-settlement/start off” (not sure what the actual name is) amount on top of any welfare.
Also Australia probably has a better welfare system then the other countries they come through.
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OK. I don’t know where your friend is getting their info about a $40,000 loan and a rental car but that is patently false.
For a start, a refugee who has been granted (v. important granted status, not waiting for approval) has exactly the same rights to Centrelink as an ‘Australian’ in the same circumstances. No more, no less. It’s less for asylum seekers:
“The Asylum Seeker Assistance (ASA) Scheme provides assistance to eligible asylum seekers who are in the process of having their refugee status determined. The ASA Scheme offers income support to cover basic living expenses, paid at 89 per cent of the Centrelink Special Benefit. This would equal approximately $405.84 per fortnight for a single asylum seeker – over $260 less than the single age pension.”
Please, don’t start peddling incorrect facts to make a point. Those facts are the most absurd I have heard.
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That friend is a refugee from Bosnia. It was what he received and he had absolutely no reason to lie.
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Those payments just don’t exist though. They don’t. Are you sure it wasn’t something else?
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Not from what he said.
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Having worked with asylum seekers, the two most common answers- and I would say about 90% of asylum seekers have one of these two reasons- is that they already have close family or friends in Australia, or that when they needed to escape, this is where their people smuggler told them they were going.
Remember that only 2% of the worlds asylum seekers come to Australia- it is a highly abnormal place to come. So it’s not like it’s a notably attractive journey, or the typical aim of most asylum seekers.
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Much smarter than my response. Makes sense to me!
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I heard on the radio the other day a discussion about the Villawood detainees being on the roof, and some were for letting them in, and some were opposing the view. Then a (former) detention centre officer came into the mix and she said that she had been assaulted every day by the men in there. She had been spat on, two of her colleagues were raped whilst working in there and numerous other disgusting things happened and are still happening in these centres. The people in detention say that “Aussies are stupid”. When asked why this is the case they say Aussies are so soft and let them do anything they want. They are given computers, phones, unlimited phonecalls to home. They get on the phone and tell their families and mates how fabulous it is here, and that we pay for everything they want. Once in the community they rarely bother to get jobs as welfare is there on tap. This is what a detention worker has said and they are on the frontline of this challenge. I think we need to take a harder line in fixing the criteria for who we let in and how they can function and give back to a western society such as ours.
I wonder why they skip other countries to come to a soft Australia? Hmmmm….
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I also have a friend who works in a detention centre and I’ve never heard of half the things you’ve mentioned here. Maybe it’s just like the real world: some people are great, some not so great? Categorising them all in the one ‘boat’, so to speak, seems terribly disingenuous…
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What you say just doesn’t makes sense, so I don’t believe it. If life is so peachy for people in detention, why are they demonstrating from the rooftops? Surely they’d be kicking back in air-conditioned comfort, shopping on eBay and talking on the phone. Anyone can ring talkback radio (or comment on a blog) and say they once worked at a detention centre.
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That was was a heap of genalising racist nonsense. I have no doubt that some of the refugees are rude to some women but that does not make them all rude and all lazy and all rapists.
I work with someone who came on a boat- He takes advantage of the better life- he got a good education, he works hard and he is just like many others who come here after a good life- which the dole doesn’t provide. They want the education, the opportunities and the rewards of working hard.
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I used to have a client who lived in detention and I was there twice a week at least for 3 months. My client, as well as any other men I came across, were all very polite and I never felt threatened in any way.
Lots of generalisations in your comment…
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Speaking for myself, if I was in the same situation I would be seeking asylum and residence in the first safe country that I was able to get to whether that country be Uzbekistan, Pakistan or New Zealand. Obviously the location of the country that I’m leaving would determine the fastest, most safe destination.
Would I then risk my personal safety to move to another location ? Absolutely not. But then, I am speaking on behalf of myself.
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I’m still only getting my head around the issue – What will happen if we let the asylum seekers into the community while their application is processed? Will it open the floodgates for lots more boats to come and make the dangerous journey? Is that the only reason nobody in politics seems to consider that option?
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I agree with you Cath – I think that’s a great option which would allow the asylum seekers to learn about Australia from within the community while their claims are being processed. However from reading through some of the comments on here, I think a lot of others would disagree. Racism could (very sadly) be the main answer that politicians won’t even consider in-community processing as an option.
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hhmmm I started reading all the comments and then I gave up
Australia can’t have an open door policy to asylum seekers, you only have to look at what’s happening in Europe with the huge masses of people moving from Africa across the Mediterranean Sea and into Italy to realise that,
If we just open our doors we won’t be able to sustain the huge numbers that will arrive…that number will continue to get worse as our planet continues its decline.
I read some of the comments and I think that the people who wrote them would be happy if Australia sent a continual fleet of modern ships or aeroplanes over to Indonesia and picked up everyone who wanted to come…thus saving them the perilous journey in a leaky boat.
I like the greens and I have in the past always voted for them because of their stance on Environmental and Gay rights issues but their views on border control and asylum seekers has completely turned me off the party. I doubt that I’ll ever vote for them again.
I can’t stand the Liberal party but at least under John Howard they did make some progress with the boat people issue.
I know this opinion of mine is not going to be popular with the rank and file because it’s going against what everyone one else appears to be saying.
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Catgirl, I love that your opinion is different. I might not agree with your assessment entirely but I’m glad you’ve taken the time to write it. I don’t advocate for an open door policy (and I don’t think many would) but I do advocate for humane processing. We might not accept everyone into this country, but we should treat them like people while they are processed. That’s all I ask
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“Australia can’t have an open door policy to asylum seekers, you only have to look at what’s happening in Europe with the huge masses of people moving from Africa across the Mediterranean Sea and into Italy to realise that”
I don’t think anybody has suggested an open door, with no assessment or process.
But I don’t think that closing the door will make ‘the problem’ disappear.
You are correct in saying that there are huge numbers of people seeking asylum in Europe. In comparison, the numbers of ‘boat people’ arriving on Australian shores is tiny, so I find the hysteria which greets them to be just odd.
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In past posts some people have actually suggested that we accept anyone that wants to come.
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I agree with you Catgirl, but my issue is with the fact that the majority of them are still on welfare after 12 months in society. They lack the basic skills to be employable and also suffer emotional trauma from what they have seen and experienced.
I don’t want to sound cold and my heart does go out to them but look at the proposed budget and the difficulties that are going to be experienced by majority of low income to med income earners. I just don’t know how far our welfare system can stretch..
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This policy is ridiculous. Is it just me, or does sending away 800 asylum seekers, but accepting 4000 malaysian refugees, just seem silly? 800 compared to 4000… I don’t get it, if someone could explain that’d be great!
I’m all for dissuading the boats from arriving because it’s just such a dangerous journey, and those desperate people are being exploited by the smugglers. I can see the reasoning behind off shore detention, but why Malaysia? Of all places… at this point both parties are as bad as each other. How embarrassing that our leaders, and I guess the community, are still hung up on fearing asylum seekers. You’d think by now we would of learned from our mistakes and developed a more tolerant and humane way of treating them when they find their way to our shores…
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The short point, I think, is that Malaysia would never settle for a straight swap (otherwise their numbers don’t decrease) so we send them a smaller number of new arrivals (after the policy is officially passed) and we take more ‘genuine’ refugees from Malaysia. Over four years or so. We’re still taking them (tick for UN obligations), Malaysia gets to reduce them (tick for their interests) and maybe the boats will be stopped (tick for stop the boats policy).
Of course the Government has made no mention of how bizarre and awful it is to send arrivals to a country like Malaysia…
I don’t agree with the policy at all, just trying to explain how it’s meant to work in their eyes…
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thanks rick, that clears that up for me
i don’t agree with the policy either…it’s a very disappointing move by the government.
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On the way into work this morning I listened to somebody from Amnesty speaking about conditions in detention centres in Malaysia. Horrifying.
I feel so angry. And sad
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Who’s voting Green next election? I know I will be.
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Not while a vote for green is a vote for labour I won’t be. They need to disassociate themselves with this disfunctional party as quickly as possible unless they want to be completely irrelevant. A green vote is no longer a ‘protest vote’… they need to work harder to establish themselves as a real alternative rather than a sub-branch of labour.
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A Green vote isn’t a vote for Labor! Believe me, they couldn’t be any more different to the now central-edging right- Labor party.
They’ve worked in conjunction regarding the mining tax and the carbon tax (two obvious environmental issues where something is better than nothing) but that’s the extent of it.
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Ummm… I’m sorry, but the Greens always preference Labour, and in the last election actually gave Labour the seats (votes) they needed to form a government, so yes, a vote for Green is actually a vote for Labour. By voting green you (and I for that matter) ultimately handed power to Gillard. There is no other way to spin it.
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Sorry but it’s Labor, not Labour.
Why do so many people misspell it?
I don’t mean to be picky but it’s rather important to know the name of the political party that leads this nation.
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probably just because the correct spelling
of the word in normal use is labour I reckon.
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Me – you get to direct where your preferences go – not the Labor
party. Whoever you put 2 next to on the ballot paper is your second
preference – Greens having Labor as a preference is only a
suggestion. People really need to spend a bit of time understanding
how the preferential voting system works – it’s important.. obviously
the Bristish are a bit confused how it all works too though, or they
would have recently thrown out their silly first past the post system.
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Good old Tory scare campaign stopped them from making that sensible change.
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That was my thought too Me.
I’m very disappointed with the Green’s response to this issue… they made a fairly timid statement to Labor that they disapproved but then suggested to the media that Labor is the less of two evils so that they should continue to work with them.
Yet the very reason the Greens were given so many votes at the last election was because of issues like this. I think they should be making a very big issue of it – even if it risks going to an election again because this is a very serious human rights issue – and if the Greens are going to be so complicit that they are beginning to act as politically expedient as the Labor party then what is their role in Australian politics now?
Feeling pretty disillusioned with the Greens right now and Australian politics in general.
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I sure hope you’re planning to vote independent then, because you can scarcely call the Lib/Nationals a functional party under the Mad Monk… they have no policies except to ‘oppose’ everything and anything the Government proposes, for no other reason than bitterness and spite at no longer holding office themselves.
It will be decades, if ever, before the Greens are ever likely to be a ‘real alternative’ to challenge the two major parties and have a chance at governing the country, so be realistic. Their policies differ in many ways from Labor, and their role is to try and influence the implementation of Labor’s (or whichever party is is Government) policies to reflect their own. If they can’t work and make some compromises with the sitting Government, they’ll get none of their policies up. By voting Green (such a shame Meg Lees sold out the Democrats for her 30 pieces of silver over the GST, or we’d have another option on the table) you’re at least helping provide checks and balances to Labor policy that are based on a genuine desire for positive change – not simply the ugly, vicious politicking put up by the Opposition.
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Sorry, ignorant here. What is the Green policy on refugees and asylum seekers?
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Greens policy can be found here: http://greens.org.au/policies
(which, on a side note, is much easier to find than Labour or Liberal policy…)
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I wouldn’t vote for any of them based upon a single issue. You may agree with the Greens when it comes to immigration. How do you sit with the employment, social welfare and agricultural policies, to name just three, that the Greens present ?
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There’s probably no point, usually their preferences go to Labor. But there’s no way I’m voting liberal either…
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*sigh*.
i don’t think i can really say any more on the subject that hasn’t already been said. so in absence of words, i sigh.
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julia gillard. can she make an election promise and stick to it? doesn’t seem so. I am beyond sick of this government (and I used to always vote labour).
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Disclaimer: I am not going to be very eloquent today, as this policy enrages me.
This policy is simply appalling, and disgusts me for a number of reasons. One of these reasons is the language used by Miss Gillard, which panders to the right by reinforcing myths such as the lie that there is a queue, and the lie that people who come here on boats are not “genuine” refugees, when the vast majority are found to be refugees.
And Malaysia? Could we have picked a country that treats asylum seekers any worse?? Most likely they will just get back on the boats and try to come back here, and I don’t blame them.
But most of all this policy makes me sad, because the general Australian population, who claim to be compassionate, can not see that these “boat people” are simply people, who unfortunately were not lucky enough to be born in a country like ours, where they would not be subjected to war, torture and various other traumas. The Australian public seems to find the fact that these people simply want a better life, and to be FREE, so offensive.
No one chooses to be an asylum seeker.
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I disagree, Erin. While there are unfortunately a number of Australians who would prefer that we don’t allow anyone in to the country, I think the majority of Australian are just overwhelmingly frustrated that a fair, reasonable solution cannot be reached. I believe that most people are compassionate for what a lot of these refugees have gone through, they also recognise that we can’t simply have an open door policy. It seems to me that those who want some sort of solution to the numbers arriving evertday are considered without compassion or racist for their views which I think is extremely unfair. The numbers of refugees arriving by boat are not overwhelmingly large (to me) but they will increase if we don’t find a solution soon. Also, what many seem to forget (and I deal with the outcome in my job) is that those sitting in refugee camps waiting for a refugee/humanitarian visa miss out as they are allocated to the many refugees arriving here by vote and therefore creating a situation where many believe that it IS better to arrive by boat as they will have more of a chance than staying put in a camp.
Sorry this is so long. And no, I have no idea of what this solution should be….but Gillard’s answer is not it.
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Thank-you for sharing your thoughtful opinion. I guess its just that the racists tend to be the ones with the loudest voices, and its easy to generalise that all Australians are racists out of disillusionment.
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If you don’t mind me saying so, Erin…rubbish. I have encountered many racists who come across as meek and mild, preferring not to be the loudest voice at the table.
I’ve met some wise people who say little and some real dumb clucks who say a lot.
An opinion is something that we are all entitled to have. Sometimes those opinions will differ. An opinion that is different to yours or mine is not necessarily wrong. It’s just another opinion. Calling someone a name doesn’t strengthen their position. It weakens yours.
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This policy disgusts me. Sure, people smugglers might be taking advantage of needy people, but surely that’s less evil than regimes that oppress and endager their own citizens? If I considered my life and my family’s lives to be at risk, I’d deal with a people smuggler rather than sit around and watch my children suffer. and why is there a so-called “queue to get into Australia anyway? Is our processing system too incompetent?
I was discussing this with a friend the other day and my solution is to let illegal immigrants straight into the community, find them sensible jobs (perhaps something like the public works that got done in the depression — but deploying people according to therir health, skills etc — wqe’re talking humanitarian aid here, not slave labour — but it’s not like there aren’t plenty of things to be done!) let them earn a reasonable income, put the children into schools etc, and have them on a sort of parole system of regular check ins for a couple of years or so to show that they are decent productive citizens, then release them as fully accepted immigrants. What am I missing?
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For every $5 we spend on detention, it would cost $1 to house them in the community. And it would be vastly more humane…and welcoming.
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I didn’t know that about the money, Rick. Interesting. Surely somebody should take up that policy then? (Being concerned about money and all as most politicians appear to be…)
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You’d think so. But the polls appear to show that nobody wants asylum seekers housed in the community while they wait for claims to be processed, so no Government that is so reactionist and no Opposition that is so negative would ever suggest it. To some small degree, because detention centres are over-crowded at the moment, the current Government does house some families and children in the community. They’re the stories you see splashed on the front pages of the tabloids with headlines that usually read: ‘Asylum Seekers lurking in YOUR community’ in a typically scary fashion…sigh.
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Oh, I hadn’t thought about it from that point of view…
sigh.
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Not every asylum seeker is of good character. If I recall correctly some women in detention have been sexually assaulted. Why should we have men wandering around our communities when we have not checked out their backgrounds. These people often have chosen to destroy their papers, they dont have visas’whereas normally people entering Australia have been subjected to background checks.
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ps generally I have no objection to women and children living in the comunity
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Exactly. Not every asylum seeker is, not every Australian is, not every human being is. That’s why some are sent home after poor character checks. See the stats I included at the end of the article? There are a small percentage that have had claims refused on character assessments. The percentage now is about the same as it was under Howard.
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Yes, they can be sent home after we find out they have a criminal record, however we should not be letting men loose into the Australian community whilst awaiting processing if we do not know their background.
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But we have plenty of men wandering
around our communities who are asutralian
citizens who rape and assault women and
children. i don’t see how it’s different where
they have come from, to be honest. i would
wish that we had none of these types of people,
but they don’t come from just one background,
or just one place…
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Didn’t they used to be ‘in the community’ 20-30 years ago? I remember a place near my grandparents where the immigrants were housed, it was pretty basic ‘army style’ barracks, but there were no barbed wire fences or guards, and I assume they were allowed to be in the community. I cannot understand why we treat refugees like criminals. It’s one thing to spend a fortune keeping criminals locked away for the ‘safety’ of society [there's another whole topic there] but to do it simply to maintain an orderly queue’ is just plain wrong.
And the ‘great unwashed’ who don’t want to ‘let them in’ should probably try to remember that 99.9% of our ancestors were immigrants at some time or another…
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You’re perfectly right. We did formerly house them in the community. And let them work. And it was a fabulous policy that worked.
But of course, they were mostly ‘white’ European settlers back then…excuse my cynicism!
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Nothing cynical about that. I’d say realism rather than cynicism.
People are just so afraid of people who are ‘different’ who we don’t really understand.
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My father was one of the many refugees who came to Australia after WW2. He and his father escaped Yugoslavia and came to Australia via Italy, the UK and Egypt. They lived for a while in military-style barracks near Melbourne. Dad went to school, Grandpa went to work (he was a printer by trade). Strangely, Dad is a fan of the ‘stop the boats’ policy. Apparently this isn’t uncommon among previous generations of refugees. I’m not sure why.
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How can any Government come up with a constructive refugee policy when the opposition is more than willing to use refugees as a political football…no matter what policy the Government comes up with, the opposition will use it as an opportunity to score points against the Government.
Is this new policy a good policy..? I have no idea…
Will we ever have a decent refugee policy when the Government and opposition wont work together constructively? No!
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Rick, this issue is doing my head in. I believe we should treat asylum seekers with generousity and kindness – but the boats frighten me – not the people on them, but the risks they’re taking. So dangerous. The Christmas Island wreck should keep us all awake at night. But no one seems to have come up with a better idea to get people to stop risking their lives. We need fresh, compassionate thinking and I can’t see that either Gillard or Abbott are capable of it.
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I’m so with you. Boat journeys are ridiculously dangerous and should be avoided if we can. But sending refugees to a country that has such a terrible record on human rights with asylum seekers and refugees is beyond the pale. I think it’s disgusting and so typical of the ‘out of sight, out of mind’ mentality. What’s more, I am so over the Opposition who said during Christmas Island ‘we must stop the boats, it’s the only way to keep them safe’ and now they are still not happy because we’re taking asylum seekers/refugees from Malaysia. Shows their crocodile tears for the bunk they are.
Their policy seems to be less about ‘stop the boats’ and more about ‘stop every asylum seeker ever’.
I’m over both sides at the moment.
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I’ve been thinking about this too. Why don’t we (and other western governments who accept asylum seekers) process them at the embassy in their country of origin so they don’t need to risk their lives on a boat? But maybe I’m oversimplifying… perhaps we’d end up with every citizen in that country lining up at the gates of the embassy and have absolutely no way of processing them all.
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I think it’s probably not safe for them to go to the embassy, you never know who might be watching etc. Also, what you said about tons of people lining up at the gate would also be a problem for sure. But i think it’s got a lot to do with safety, if you are seen in some countries to be trying to seek asylum and leave, they may detain, torture or even execute you.
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why is no one prepared to *lead* on this issue.
*sigh*
it’s so deflating.
this country needs a leader who can stand up for what is right and stop flip flopping to try and please the polls. Stop promoting fear. Stop pandering to the lowest common denominator.
this issue is too important. these are peoples lives, not a political football.
let’s get real for crying out loud.
I appreciate that it is complex, but we need a leader that has the brass to counter hyperbole like “Stop the Boats” and this meandering wishwash is not it.
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I am standing and applauding your comment.
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thanks Rick – you just diffused my gurrumpf.
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Onesmalllife, unfortunately we have two major political parties who are both pandering to the lowest common denominator. Neither party has the balls to make a stand on something they truely believe in. Both parties are more concerned with winning the next election, not making Australia a better place to live. This is why we have two major parties with very little difference between them. And now that the Greens are in bed with Labor, we no longer have an alternative protest vote, we just have another boring party with essentially the same policies and opinions. I don’t know who I will vote for at the next election because they are all the same.
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Thanks Rick, was hoping for a cheat sheet on this one.
I’m very confused about Prime Minister GIllard at the moment.
She’s a humanitarian who now wants to ‘stop the boats’.
She’s an atheist who doesn’t believe in gay marriage due to our ‘Christian heritage’.
She’s an environmentalist who’s doing bugger all for the environment.
She’s for the workers but cutting state budgets leading to worker lay offs.
She’s one Julia then the ‘real Julia’.
I am one confused constituent…
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I’ve literally just thrown up my hands in confusion at this Government. So over the multiple personalities. And, personally, this policy is absolute crap. Grr.
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Agreed, this policy is two steps backwards and no steps forward.
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you’re so right – do you think it’s because of the way she won (or *formed*) with such tiny margin? that she/they don’t feel like they have a mandate for gutsier policy?
it’s like they’ve lost the confidence to be strong on what they stand for, too scared they’ll lose their grip.
so deeply disappointing.
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I’m a bit over the ‘mandate’ argument. They have formed a government. The chance of them winning the next election, no matter what they do now, is slim to none. So why don’t they just use this opportunity to do what they think is right?? The few supporters they have left will dessert them if they continue on down this ridiculous path, which will effectively doom the labour party to many years in the wilderness (a la NSW labour). How can they not see this???
Every major decision they’ve made since forming government is absolute crap, so why should this one be any different??
How long will it be before the Greens and Independents get sick of being aligned with this joke of a party and their ‘policies’ and pull the pin?? Oh wait, that will negatively impact them too, so they won’t do that, will they? They’ll just spend the rest of their lives regretting that they chose the wrong side…
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sorry – that’s me
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I think she (and former PM Rudd) is poll driven and poll obsessed, despite claiming that she doesn’t care what the polls say.
The Labor party is not being true to itself. It’s time to ignore the polls and get back to its core values.
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I wish that polls would stop being taken every time we draw breath. It’s ridiculous really. Btw, who the he’ll do they poll? There’s so many done that you’d think every adult would have a turn, but no pollsters ever come knocking at my door, or accosted me at the shops.
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I think Julia Gillard has wedged herself politically on this issue. I don’t think any one on the right will change their mind one bit with this announcement but plenty of people on the left will move over to the Greens. Really disappointing.
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